Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Is There a Professional Geek Dress Code?
First time submitter KateKintail writes "I'm being promoted to be a director of a computer/web services department at work with staff members (not yet hired) working under me. My workplace doesn't have a dress code 95% of the year. Is this the end of my days of jeans and enjoyably geeky t-shirts? Is there a way to dress professionally in the workplace as a boss (the kind that doesn't need to be defeated at the end of a level) while still showing my Browncoat or Whovian love as I crawl under cobwebby desks to check that equipment is properly plugged in?"
now that you have been promoted to executive management you'll be completely unable to use a computer with in 6 months.
Mission control, 1960's, shall forever be the exemplar of true nerd fashion. However, in a bow to modernity, the pocket slide rule could probably be replaced with a smartphone.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
If you're still crawling under desks, then you obviously don't want to be wearing a suit. I just wear my jeans and t-shirt, and occasionally throw an shirt on over the top when I want to be a bit more "professional". The dress code here is "anything with a collar". I got into trouble for wearing awesomely comfortable sweat pants one time, so now I stick with jeans :p
which is totally what she said
Your staff members should be the ones crawling under the desk. You're the department head for God's sake. Act too busy or something. Rank hath its privileges. Personally, as a self-employed consultant, I wear a button-down with the collar open and black Dickies work pants (non-cargo) as ordinary dress pants rip too easily and get snagged on stuff while crawling under desks.
That said, you don't have to wear a suit and tie. Black/Brown shoes, nice jeans, and a long sleeve shirt (untucked).
If he had common sense do you really think he would be asking a bunch of nerds for fashion advice?
The first rule of geek dresscode is that you don't speak about geek dresscode.
In the computer contracting field, which tends to be semi-profesional dress, what you are shooting for is bussines casual Slacks, black shoes, button up shirt (short or long sleeve) with no patterns on it.
Remember two things, you should not be climbing under things anymore. Directors direct others to do this work. Secondly you are now going to have to play interdepartment politics. this means you are going to have to make sure people take you seriously. this, unfortunatly for humans, means a dominance display in the form of your clothing. You are not going to win a budget fight and be taken seriously wearing clown shoes no matter how correct your argument is.
So accept that in your new world clothes still donates status and ability. You need to adapt because you are not going to change the course of human evolution overnight.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
... for any workplace when it comes to dress:
Look at how your boss dresses. Your normal, "I'm not meeting with clients" work wear should NOT be dressier than your boss on a typical day, but shouldn't be significantly trashier either, unless you have filthy work duty* that your boss doesn't participate in.
Actually this rule of thumb applies to behavior, handling of issues, manner of answering the phone, all kinds of things. Check how your boss and your peers around the company do something, assume it to be the corporate norm, and adapt that corporate norm to your specific situation.
*poking around through a raised floor/dropped ceiling and the like
"Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
Ignore all the "it doesn't matter what you look like" comments you are bound to receive on slashdot.
Dress like the role you want next
Yes, you can wear t-shirts and jeans and stay exactly where you are today.
Dress like an adult. This generally means khakis and a button down shirt or polo shirt.
Sure, sometimes you can slide in jeans, but have nice ones.
No t-shirts. no sandals ever.
go to jcrew, banana republic, etc.
and stop asking slashdot for clothing advice
As the Director, you get to decide the dress policy for you staff, aside from whatever HR may demand. At least, that is how it is in most workplaces. So, expect your staff to take a cue from you and dress slightly down from whatever you may present. If that ends up being the case, some monogrammed polo shirts might not be bad to keep around (you know, Horde logo, Tardis, etc). For interviews, I would consider wearing the minimum of whatever YOU would expect someone would come to an interview in. Based on what little you wrote, I would guess a polo or bowling/tropical shirt?
Aside from that, I would doubt that dressing up matters much at your workplace if you were promoted to Director and like dressing in t-shirts and jeans.
I'm a systems engineer and I dress very nicely for work. There, I said it.
When I first started here about 6 months ago, I got constant (almost snide) remarks from those who were in the extreme side of the casual camp that I was dressing better than everyone else. Well, yes, I am. I care very much about my appearance and being a professional, thank you. When I first started, people didn't dress the part. Within a few weeks of my arrival the office in general started dressing better. Now even those in the casual camp are dressing better and putting in some effort to personal appearance.
No, you don't have to wear a suit or a tie, but if you're in some position of authority/believability I believe you should dress the part. T-shirts and jeans are fine for a college campus, not a company.
To quote the new VP of Development at my company, on the day of his promotion: "I stand here before you wearing one brown sock and one blue sock, demonstrating that you do not need to know how to dress yourself to get ahead."
Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
Penny Arcade has been starting to put out professional clothing under the "First Party" clothing like. They have polo shirts and ties, I believe. You'll look professional but still show that you aren't a stuck-up suit-wearing ambercrombie-douce wannabe. And they do look spiffy. Just get some kahkis to go with it. You don't really need the tie unless you're meeting with clients and want to wear a button down shirt which I think they have now as well.
-SaNo
But the key thing to remember is that people WILL judge you based on what you are wearing. So don't dress on how people should act, dress on how they will act, if you care how they act toward you.
Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
Pretty much this.
Dresscodes are simple.
Manual labor (packing off boxes, crawling under desks, racking servers), jeans are mandatory. If you command someone to crawl around on a rough cement floor or mess with pointy server racks in slacks, you better give them hella paycheck to pay for expensive new pants all the time. Jeans take a beating, so you let your employees wear jeans if their pants are gonna take a beating.
Everything else, business casual. Go ahead and put on a good show when you're out dealing with other execs, if you want to wear casual do it. A suit is normal, but only so you don't frighten CEOs who can't dress themselves. Why should I match my shirt and pants and belt when I can just wear a white button shirt and a $200 monkey suit? (Belts are always black, by the way) Wearing business casual to a meeting full of suits is taboo because it makes the suits think about the uncomfortable fact that some people don't need their mommy to dress them in the morning.
If you really want to have some fun, put bare feet in your dress code. Like, really, put in that gaudy shoes like knee-high boots with six thousand buckles are not business professional, but that unshod is acceptable attire within the office.
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1. cheetos stains are ok on an underling's t-shirt, but as a manager, when you wipe your cheetos hands on your shirt, it should blend in, so you appear professional. therefore, ultraviolet orange is the only shirt color you can wear from now on
2. you should not wear the same jeans more than 3 days in a row. it is ok to set them out and allow the bacterial mass to age for a day or two, and then wear them another day later
3. when you take your shoes off, the sock odor whiff from the cubicle next door should not exceed 220 ppm particulates of fungal matter. this level for managerial positions is more strict than 660 ppm particulates of fungal matter for underlings. so socks must be changed at least weekly. if you have a your own office now, then by all means, you do not have to change your sock policy, private offices are allowed mushroom growth
(* you are asking slashdot for clothing advice. SLASHDOT. what do you expect?)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
shouldn't need to derive its judgement of your professionality from your clothing
In an ideal world, I suppose looks should not matter, but in reality appearance accounts for a lot. "Wear whatever you want" is very dangerous advice, given people have very different ideas about where the boarder lies between appropriate and inappropriate, but we all have a pretty clear idea about what conservative or work dress is. I think The Office (US Version) had a pretty good take (NSFW) on this.
The way you look can have just as much an impact on your professional image as your actions, especially with people you don't interact with often and therefore don't get to witness your professionalism. If someone sees you constantly in a Hawaiian shirt and sandals, they are going to form a judgment about you in their head, whether it's justifiable or not. Also consider that you never know what day you're going to meet someone important to your business... a new client, an investor, a new key employee. The first impression these people make of you will be based on your appearance, and could lead to them making a critical decision not in your favor.
I know the nerd crowd isn't known for their hygiene and fashion sense. Maybe instead of socks and sandals, go for a pair of loafers. Maybe instead of cargo shorts, go for a nice pair of slacks. Someone else mentioned NASA Mission Control circa. 1960. Look at those pictures and you'll see everyone is clean shaven, has a nice haircut, and is wearing a tie. That's probably want you should be shooting for if you want to create a professional image before you even open your mouth.
No, I believe that the lack of common sense was not making explicit a particular detail which Slashdotters almost never never assume.
"... Sean Hannity, whose surgery to remove those bolts from his neck was apparently successful,
If you are being promoted to "Director" level, you have more to think about than simply "is this appropriate?" or "am I going to lose my geek cred?"
You need to determine if your new position is going to be one of true decision making authority, with high level direction and little or no socialization with your team (more of a high level director role), or if the position is more of a classic on-hands leadership role where you can walk amongst your team as sort of a "team captain" (more of a manager role).
If you feel like you'll be among your team as a leader, but still considered a peer (albeit a "boss" peer), then business casual is probably fine; maybe even the same way you've always dressed. However, if your new position enforces that weird disconnect between your employees (they are no longer peers, but valued employees) then you need to dress as professionally as possible, and leave all of your "flair" out of the deal. Save that for your office trinkets, or leave it at home. Who are you "one" of now? Dress like those people do.
I don't envy the move to a "director" position for these reasons; while it's an interesting career move, you really do have to set yourself apart through dress and behavior. Your peers will become the other directors, not the team you're managing, and you need to come across as competent in their eyes, too.
Whatever you decide to do, take care of your new team and be a good boss. That's more important than clothes.
If he had common sense do you really think he would be asking a bunch of nerds for fashion advice?
You are assuming it's a He. You fail common sense (see submitter's name for reasonable doubt).
I'll never forget when I was a 20 year old intern at a financial firm, and I was invited to a meeting with a CEO from a medical services company we were considering investing in. The analyst I reported to was in his late 20s, a business school graduate, who was admittedly a cocky bastard. First, he let me show up on time to the meeting and talk with the CEO for 15 minutes before he bothered coming. Probably just to put the CEO in his place, letting him know he was on par with an intern.
When the analyst finally showed up, he was wearing a button down shirt, slacks, and no shoes. He said to the CEO "it's casual Friday, hope you don't mind that I took my shoes off". The CEO, looking only slightly flustered, then said, "no not at all", and proceeded to take his shoes off for the meeting too.
Some things are just too weird to make up. But yeah, nothing says I've got a sack too big for words like walking around the office in business casual, or even a suit, and no shoes.
That's just common sense.
This has been a test. If this had been an actual Sig, you would have been amused.
It is different for each organization.
1. Customers: Who are your customers? Do you meet with them? How Do they Dress?
2. Travel: Are you expected to be seen in public?
3. Culture: What do others ware in your level of position?
The place I work is formal, my normal ware is a Dress Shirt and a Tie, Slacks, and black shoes.
I have worked at places that were less formal where I can get away with a polo shirt or a collard short sleaved shirt.
But I found a button down collared shirt is the good medium.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
A man Tom Georgens was hired on at LSI back in the late 90's as the president of the company's enterprise storage division (about 600 employees in that division). LSI at the time was a business casual dress code at the time (most everyone wore slacks and a nice shirt, some wore nicer clothes).
Sometime shortly after he became president of the division he was holding a all-hands meeting at their main development center. That day he greeted everyone at the front-door of the building as they walked in. He was dressed in jeans (possibly shorts), sandals, and a t-shirt. From that day forward engineering started to go to a "tech casual" dress code.
A number of years later, Tom Georgens became the CEO of NetApp.
You should wear clothes that fit the enviroment you will be working in for that day. If you plan on meeting with customers you should dress for it. If you are going to just be working with your employees, wear the clothes that you feel is needed to express your attitude towards your employees and peers.
Its not what it is, its something else.
Since when does a female, nerd or otherwise, ask a male nerd for actual fashion advice? That's not exactly our strong suit.
and insist that everyone call you Captain.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
No Jeans. Ever. You're not stacking pallets. Unfortunately yes, it is the end of your days of jeans.
Slacks, not Khakis (except, perhaps, on Friday). Black. Maybe grey, depending on how it looks with the rest of your clothes. Black goes with everything, so if all else fails, go black.
Shirt: Button down, opaque, no logos. Undershirt should not be visible (white t-shirt works best). Yes, you are expected to wear two layers of shirt. I would suggest solid colors, although some of the HR and Management guys at my job look decent in plaid and other simple patterns.
The pants and shirt I have in my assigned uniform are a polyester/cotton blend. They don't breathe, at all, but they are nearly indestructible.
Shoes: Black, polishable. Not sneakers. Ask a buddy of yours in the military to help you pick out a good pair of dress shoes / boots, if nothing else. The military guys I work with always have excellent looking boots that they swear are comfortable enough to wear for 16+ hours without killing you. I'm certain some military slashdotter can reply here with suggestions for good, comfortable, decent looking boots.
Socks: Black, not white. Preferably not athletic socks, although you can usually get away with them. You can't get away with white socks. Black.
Tie: Optional for techs, usually. If not, go for a bow tie. Bow ties are cool.
(Belts are always black, by the way)
No. Belts match shoes: brown shoes, brown belt. Black shoes, brown belt. For guys anyway.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
But the key thing to remember is that people WILL judge you based on what you are wearing. So don't dress on how people should act, dress on how they will act, if you care how they act toward you.
That's true. When people dress in suits, I always assume they're going to try to steal something from me, but don't want to get their hands dirty.
Some will rob you with a six-gun, some with a fountain pen.
-Woody Guthrie
You said that you were wearing jeans and t-shirts, so we can assume that is within the cultural norm. I would suggest trading in the T-shirt for something with a collar on it. In order to maintain your geek-cred, you could check out the "First Party" line of shirts over at penny-arcade.
On the other hand, a tweed jacket and a bow-tie would work.
For men, military style tactical boots, kept polished, can be almost indistinguishable from dress shoes, and are an order of magnitude or two more comfortable. In addition, the type with steel toes and non-slip soles are approved footwear for any place I have ever been that required safety boots.
Add a set of comfortable gel insoles to those and you will have foot nirvana all day.
For women, stick with comfortable shoes over pretty/fancy ones. Even sitting at a desk all day, your feet have a major impact on your overall comfort. Low heels or flats that match a variety of clothes can be life savers. And don't forget that you too can use the lovely gel insoles to improve comfort.
In either case, it is also nice to be able to sneak the shoes off under a desk and stretch your feet out while you work. Just keep clean feet and no one will even know. (Except the support monkey checking your Ethernet cables)
If you are sitting for longer hours than standing and moving around, wear a belt that is slide adjustable instead of one that has pre-punched holes. Remember that the longer you are sitting, the more your spine compresses and the more your girth temporarily increases (no matter how fit you are).
If you end up having to wear dress shirts and find them uncomfortably hot or cool, Under Armor and similar companies make thermal regulating undershirts in a variety of colors, including black, white, and neutral/tan that work well enough for desert and cold weather troops. They are well worth the investment in my opinion. They also allow you to slip off a dress shirt if you have to do a desk dive, dust yourself off in the appropriate restroom, and return to full dress without missing a beat.
You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.
Strong SUIT. I see what you did there. And better to ask fashion advice from fellow nerds in my industry than from my beauty queen of a younger sister who'd probably have a heart attack looking at my wardrobe :-)
KETCHUP?! With LOBSTER you want KETCHUP?!
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Yeah, back when I worked for a bespoke dev house and worked onsite at the clients, I'd turn up in a suit & tie, chat to management, get the details then hit the trenches.
Jacket off, tie off, top button undone and the short-sleeved shirt immediately gave me credibility with their staff, backed up with professional expertise and serious delivery.
Everybody happy, particularly my bosses back at base.