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Ask Slashdot: Is There a Professional Geek Dress Code?
First time submitter KateKintail writes "I'm being promoted to be a director of a computer/web services department at work with staff members (not yet hired) working under me. My workplace doesn't have a dress code 95% of the year. Is this the end of my days of jeans and enjoyably geeky t-shirts? Is there a way to dress professionally in the workplace as a boss (the kind that doesn't need to be defeated at the end of a level) while still showing my Browncoat or Whovian love as I crawl under cobwebby desks to check that equipment is properly plugged in?"
now that you have been promoted to executive management you'll be completely unable to use a computer with in 6 months.
Yes there is, use common sense. It is that simple.
Wear Tevas. Doesn't matter what else you have on. Fridays don't wear any shoes at all. For better or worse you'll fit right in.
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
Yes. You must be dressed when you come to work.
Mission control, 1960's, shall forever be the exemplar of true nerd fashion. However, in a bow to modernity, the pocket slide rule could probably be replaced with a smartphone.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
shouldn't need to derive its judgement of your professionality from your clothing -- as long as you provide professional work, wear whatever you want. If you have meetings with other directors that can't tell if you're good (Dunning-Kruger says hi), wear something similar to what they wear.
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
For day to day operations does it really matter? I do not find a person's dress code at all reflects their abilities and I am damn sure not distracted by what someone wears. Then again I am looking at code all day, not people.
If you're still crawling under desks, then you obviously don't want to be wearing a suit. I just wear my jeans and t-shirt, and occasionally throw an shirt on over the top when I want to be a bit more "professional". The dress code here is "anything with a collar". I got into trouble for wearing awesomely comfortable sweat pants one time, so now I stick with jeans :p
which is totally what she said
If you adopt Mitt Romney's look.
Your staff members should be the ones crawling under the desk. You're the department head for God's sake. Act too busy or something. Rank hath its privileges. Personally, as a self-employed consultant, I wear a button-down with the collar open and black Dickies work pants (non-cargo) as ordinary dress pants rip too easily and get snagged on stuff while crawling under desks.
Just a middle finger held high, motherfucker.
- In Soviet Korea, only old people loose all their bases to Natalie Portman's petrified hot grits overlords.
That said, you don't have to wear a suit and tie. Black/Brown shoes, nice jeans, and a long sleeve shirt (untucked).
dress like The Doctor all the time. Bow ties are cool! 8]
When it comes to computer work, if you're high enough in the department to be expected to follow a dress code you're high enough to not have to adhere to said dress code.
Problem solved.
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
If you want to move up in your company it doesn't hurt to dress the part. I've seen people who dress in jeans and ratty t-shirts languish in their positions while better dressed sleeved shirt and nice pants (nice shoes too sorry) pass them. I hate to say the truth here but good looking people do better than sloppy looking people. That said it's by no means a reflection of your abilities or aptitude
I've been considering that. Polo shirt w/cargo pants (darker, rather than lighter) is probably the easiest solution that bridges the gap. If you need to dress up more, just keep an pressed Oxford shirt handy and you should be good.
"My God...it's full of trolls!"
The first rule of geek dresscode is that you don't speak about geek dresscode.
In the computer contracting field, which tends to be semi-profesional dress, what you are shooting for is bussines casual Slacks, black shoes, button up shirt (short or long sleeve) with no patterns on it.
Remember two things, you should not be climbing under things anymore. Directors direct others to do this work. Secondly you are now going to have to play interdepartment politics. this means you are going to have to make sure people take you seriously. this, unfortunatly for humans, means a dominance display in the form of your clothing. You are not going to win a budget fight and be taken seriously wearing clown shoes no matter how correct your argument is.
So accept that in your new world clothes still donates status and ability. You need to adapt because you are not going to change the course of human evolution overnight.
Papa Legba come and open the gate
Agreed. If you've got clients visiting and for some reason they might see you, then dress up a little. Otherwise wear what you want. It's not like being choked by a tie will make you perform any better.
... for any workplace when it comes to dress:
Look at how your boss dresses. Your normal, "I'm not meeting with clients" work wear should NOT be dressier than your boss on a typical day, but shouldn't be significantly trashier either, unless you have filthy work duty* that your boss doesn't participate in.
Actually this rule of thumb applies to behavior, handling of issues, manner of answering the phone, all kinds of things. Check how your boss and your peers around the company do something, assume it to be the corporate norm, and adapt that corporate norm to your specific situation.
*poking around through a raised floor/dropped ceiling and the like
"Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
Depends on the corporate culture. Definitely wear polo shirts or similar collared shirts; no T-shirts. In some places IT middle management wears jeans; in others it's Dockers or similar khakis. I've been a contractor for a few years, formerly in IT management, and I've seen this dress in many, many places.
No.
It's a bit frustrating, but they are very stuck in the 70's that way...but they give IT a decent budget so I cant complain too much :)
Ignore all the "it doesn't matter what you look like" comments you are bound to receive on slashdot.
Dress like the role you want next
Yes, you can wear t-shirts and jeans and stay exactly where you are today.
Dress like an adult. This generally means khakis and a button down shirt or polo shirt.
Sure, sometimes you can slide in jeans, but have nice ones.
No t-shirts. no sandals ever.
go to jcrew, banana republic, etc.
and stop asking slashdot for clothing advice
How you dress sets the tone in the office.
Put on the dress shirt and pants but throw in a geeky binary tie or something
Bow ties are cool.
Nice Jeans/Khakis and a collared shirt. It's not hard, and you look like a respectable but casual person.
As the Director, you get to decide the dress policy for you staff, aside from whatever HR may demand. At least, that is how it is in most workplaces. So, expect your staff to take a cue from you and dress slightly down from whatever you may present. If that ends up being the case, some monogrammed polo shirts might not be bad to keep around (you know, Horde logo, Tardis, etc). For interviews, I would consider wearing the minimum of whatever YOU would expect someone would come to an interview in. Based on what little you wrote, I would guess a polo or bowling/tropical shirt?
Aside from that, I would doubt that dressing up matters much at your workplace if you were promoted to Director and like dressing in t-shirts and jeans.
http://www.automotiveworkwear.com/RedKap/CP40/coveralls.html
Done.
In general, most places that I've been in during my 30 year career have had managers and supervisors generally wearing golf shirts and khaki pants or something similar. This is for places that have no real dress code other than clean, in good repair and not offensive.
I would take a look around the company and see how the rest of the team leaders dress. Regardless of how the geeks dress, you're going to need to peddle influence in order to get your budget and policies passed. The better you dress (without overdressing your higher level managers, the more respect you can garner from people that have no clue about IT.
Check out what your manager and his peers wear and go even with that or *one* step lower. If the company president wears jeans and band tee shirts, it don't matter none...:-)
Especially if you are handling security. I deduce this not from experience, however; I deduce it from Verizon.
Yeah, I keep dropping that link. Can't help it.
Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
There was 1 guy who 100% of the time worked in IT on phone support and never worked in the field so he usually came in grey sweatpants and a Packers jersey. You could actually show up to a million dollar job interview in a Packers jersey in Wisconsin and it'd still be acceptable but not the sweatpants lol.
I'm the head IT manager at my company and I just wear khaki or otherwise tan colored shorts, usually with sort of poofy utility pockets since I carry stuff all the time and I'm definitely not carrying a man purse. For the top, I wear something with buttons and usually lines up and down it. It's sort of a technician look or architect. It's a tiny bit geeky but still would look normal on a non-IT worker and looks pretty good overall. My other 2 jobs had the exact same dress code as well. If any job told me to wear a suit every day just to work in IT, regardless of the position level, I'd tell them to shove it up their ass. I'm pretty skinny but I'd sweat like crazy in something like that, let alone having to crawl under a desk with it to hook up a monitor.
I'm a systems engineer and I dress very nicely for work. There, I said it.
When I first started here about 6 months ago, I got constant (almost snide) remarks from those who were in the extreme side of the casual camp that I was dressing better than everyone else. Well, yes, I am. I care very much about my appearance and being a professional, thank you. When I first started, people didn't dress the part. Within a few weeks of my arrival the office in general started dressing better. Now even those in the casual camp are dressing better and putting in some effort to personal appearance.
No, you don't have to wear a suit or a tie, but if you're in some position of authority/believability I believe you should dress the part. T-shirts and jeans are fine for a college campus, not a company.
If your dress code is full on tux, well, there's not much you can do about that. If it's everything from birthday suit to space suit, then have a riot, HOWEVER...
Jeans are nice and durable, not that you really need it, but some people like crawling in something tougher than dress pants. But jeans aren't really easy to match up with a nicer top. While you don't have to wear a button down (except if your dress code states it), wearing a t-shirt with a decal or something that does not look nice is probably a bad idea (management will probably regard it as unprofessional), but monochromatic black shirts can be your friend.
There's also a khaki cargo pants option. I've always enjoyed this personally because of the extra storage space. And they complement an every day dress shirt very well. If you need to spice things up a bit more you can always wear a tie as well.
If you do choose the t-shirt option, I'd bring a dress shirt and tie in the case you have a meeting or something.
When I made the move from worker bee to director all I did was ditch the tee shirts for (mostly vendor-supplied or company) golf shirts and made sure to have a denim overshirt or corduroy sportcoat handy for improtu meetings w/ CxO-level mtgs. Levis 501s and sneakers were still mandatory for geek cred.
To quote the new VP of Development at my company, on the day of his promotion: "I stand here before you wearing one brown sock and one blue sock, demonstrating that you do not need to know how to dress yourself to get ahead."
Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
Penny Arcade has been starting to put out professional clothing under the "First Party" clothing like. They have polo shirts and ties, I believe. You'll look professional but still show that you aren't a stuck-up suit-wearing ambercrombie-douce wannabe. And they do look spiffy. Just get some kahkis to go with it. You don't really need the tie unless you're meeting with clients and want to wear a button down shirt which I think they have now as well.
-SaNo
If you want to dress up a bit wear khakis. Most of your geeky shirts will probably go with them and they hide under-desk dust well.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
If your company agrees, that is.
As for me, Black Flag t-shirt and jeans is how I roll.
Pretty much this.
Dresscodes are simple.
Manual labor (packing off boxes, crawling under desks, racking servers), jeans are mandatory. If you command someone to crawl around on a rough cement floor or mess with pointy server racks in slacks, you better give them hella paycheck to pay for expensive new pants all the time. Jeans take a beating, so you let your employees wear jeans if their pants are gonna take a beating.
Everything else, business casual. Go ahead and put on a good show when you're out dealing with other execs, if you want to wear casual do it. A suit is normal, but only so you don't frighten CEOs who can't dress themselves. Why should I match my shirt and pants and belt when I can just wear a white button shirt and a $200 monkey suit? (Belts are always black, by the way) Wearing business casual to a meeting full of suits is taboo because it makes the suits think about the uncomfortable fact that some people don't need their mommy to dress them in the morning.
If you really want to have some fun, put bare feet in your dress code. Like, really, put in that gaudy shoes like knee-high boots with six thousand buckles are not business professional, but that unshod is acceptable attire within the office.
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1. cheetos stains are ok on an underling's t-shirt, but as a manager, when you wipe your cheetos hands on your shirt, it should blend in, so you appear professional. therefore, ultraviolet orange is the only shirt color you can wear from now on
2. you should not wear the same jeans more than 3 days in a row. it is ok to set them out and allow the bacterial mass to age for a day or two, and then wear them another day later
3. when you take your shoes off, the sock odor whiff from the cubicle next door should not exceed 220 ppm particulates of fungal matter. this level for managerial positions is more strict than 660 ppm particulates of fungal matter for underlings. so socks must be changed at least weekly. if you have a your own office now, then by all means, you do not have to change your sock policy, private offices are allowed mushroom growth
(* you are asking slashdot for clothing advice. SLASHDOT. what do you expect?)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Depends on the company, but generally, yes being a "director" mean you dress business professional(i.e. suit tie or equivalent).
If you want to be taken seriously, you need to dress the part.
I go with khakis and polo shirts. Comfortable, but still sorta classy.
The quality level where the pattern matches across the pockets and the front. Abstract or floral patterns. Plain tan khakis. If there's any safety hazard in the area, closed shoes.
Bow ties are cool.
If you are being promoted to "Director" level, you have more to think about than simply "is this appropriate?" or "am I going to lose my geek cred?"
You need to determine if your new position is going to be one of true decision making authority, with high level direction and little or no socialization with your team (more of a high level director role), or if the position is more of a classic on-hands leadership role where you can walk amongst your team as sort of a "team captain" (more of a manager role).
If you feel like you'll be among your team as a leader, but still considered a peer (albeit a "boss" peer), then business casual is probably fine; maybe even the same way you've always dressed. However, if your new position enforces that weird disconnect between your employees (they are no longer peers, but valued employees) then you need to dress as professionally as possible, and leave all of your "flair" out of the deal. Save that for your office trinkets, or leave it at home. Who are you "one" of now? Dress like those people do.
I don't envy the move to a "director" position for these reasons; while it's an interesting career move, you really do have to set yourself apart through dress and behavior. Your peers will become the other directors, not the team you're managing, and you need to come across as competent in their eyes, too.
Whatever you decide to do, take care of your new team and be a good boss. That's more important than clothes.
This is why I keep an outfit in my filing cabinet.
Parachute pants.
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I'll never forget when I was a 20 year old intern at a financial firm, and I was invited to a meeting with a CEO from a medical services company we were considering investing in. The analyst I reported to was in his late 20s, a business school graduate, who was admittedly a cocky bastard. First, he let me show up on time to the meeting and talk with the CEO for 15 minutes before he bothered coming. Probably just to put the CEO in his place, letting him know he was on par with an intern.
When the analyst finally showed up, he was wearing a button down shirt, slacks, and no shoes. He said to the CEO "it's casual Friday, hope you don't mind that I took my shoes off". The CEO, looking only slightly flustered, then said, "no not at all", and proceeded to take his shoes off for the meeting too.
Some things are just too weird to make up. But yeah, nothing says I've got a sack too big for words like walking around the office in business casual, or even a suit, and no shoes.
My attitude to this is to wear interesting T-shirts (complex attractive design or image, or attractive band logo, or amusing slogan, or so on, but not offensive) in good condition, newer good-condition black jeans (always looks smarter than blue), and smart shoes. I've never been poorly groomed, but I have not become worse groomed either.
This puts me in the category of people who dress casually, but care.
Another way is to mix some more or less formal clothing, such as very good shoes with casual jeans and shirt, or wear an over-shirt open if that fits your image, or so on.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled"
Geek eye for the non-techie guy.
First episode will be RMS doing a makeover on a zombie Senator Ted Stevens.
The condition of your clothes is just as important as the clothes themselves. As a director, take the extra time to make sure everything fits well, is free of rips/tears, and is pressed (or at very least not wrinkled.) It won't matter what you're wearing if your pants are too short, your shirt if too big, or you're just a wrinkly mess...
The clothes themselves will vary a lot depending on your office and location. I've found that the East coast (particularly from DC, north) is extremely fond of jackets and ties every day, whereas the west coast is much more khakis and polo at best. Just look at what other directors in other departments are wearing and use that as a guideline. If you want to keep the geek references, they're going to have to get a bit more subtle. Wear a bow tie on occasion (I hear they're cool) or a monogrammed polo with some geek reference. A few examples
Or perhaps relegate the geek references to your office (you get an office as a director, right?) On the site I linked above, you'll find Portal inspired book-ends, Tardis coffee mugs, Rubix Cube coasters, etc. More than enough paraphernalia to show off your inner geek. Just keep it somewhat low-key. Don't want people mistaking your office for their kid's bedroom.
This signature is false.
All you need to do as add denim shirts to your wardrobe. Just throw one on and leave it unbuttoned and untucked. Get the kind with a pocket so you can carry a couple of pens and a 6" steel ruler.
But I aint gonna wear a dress or even a kilt regardless of how well it hides my throwing knife.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
baffled - no text
This one is easy! And no, I don't work for betabrand, just a fan.
http://www.betabrand.com/hoodies/navy-executive-pinstripe-hoodie.html
http://www.betabrand.com/pants/gray-dress-pant-sweatpants.html
Depends - do you want people to take you seriously? I think it's safe to assume people dress a bit nicer when meeting with clients/vendors/etc. to be taken more seriously and appear professional. Why would you not want that same level of respect from people you work with every day? There's a matter of balancing your own (physical) comfort, especially when it comes to practical matters like being able to crawl around under desks to set up machines.
In fairness, I'm banging out code and slashdot comments in jeans and a tee. But I also make sure that my clothes are clean and fit reasonably well: it's practical and comfortable, but showing a bit of effort and self-respect goes a long way.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
It's important to maintain a reduced oxygen flow to the brain to remain effective as a manager.
Where I work if we don't have customers in the office it's jeans and polo shirts, sometimes t-shirts shorts and flip flops on hot days. If we get a customer coming into the office it's business casual. You should probably dress at least as well as your best dressed underlings on a regular basis, but lead the way on a casual friday.
There is no memory shortage. yes I have heard of XFCE. Go away.
A man Tom Georgens was hired on at LSI back in the late 90's as the president of the company's enterprise storage division (about 600 employees in that division). LSI at the time was a business casual dress code at the time (most everyone wore slacks and a nice shirt, some wore nicer clothes).
Sometime shortly after he became president of the division he was holding a all-hands meeting at their main development center. That day he greeted everyone at the front-door of the building as they walked in. He was dressed in jeans (possibly shorts), sandals, and a t-shirt. From that day forward engineering started to go to a "tech casual" dress code.
A number of years later, Tom Georgens became the CEO of NetApp.
You should wear clothes that fit the enviroment you will be working in for that day. If you plan on meeting with customers you should dress for it. If you are going to just be working with your employees, wear the clothes that you feel is needed to express your attitude towards your employees and peers.
Its not what it is, its something else.
In the matrix they are geeky and cool. Not only that but it implies superpowers.
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3749416704/tt1132620
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3749416704/tt1132620
I don't wear my shoes at work most of the time. It's uncomfortable. We have no dress code, unless you're meeting a client (in which case, I do wear shoes). Aren't all software shops like this? I just assumed so.
(Belts are always black, by the way)
Actually belt color should always match your shoe color. This is a common men's faux pas, to always select a black belt. If you're wearing sneakers, then yes, black is fine, but if you're wearing some kind of leather shoe, match your belt and shoe colors. It's not as bad as it sounds anyway, usually it just means a black and brown belt, at worst 2 brown belts of different shades.
As an engineer, its business casual. Polo or button up shirt Slacks brown or black casual shoes (not sneakers) That said. I keep a pair of coveralls and a tie in my truck. Dress nice, dress professionally, but have a backup plan. No one will think twice about you asking for 10 minutes to grab a pair of jeans and a tee shirt before you start crawling around on the floor showing the workers how to do things correctly. As far as what shirt to wear. go with something plain, no logo, just a solid color. wear it under your polo or dress shirt, toss it when your get dirty or sweaty.
It was normal for Steve Jobs to be barefoot in the office. Don't think he would tolerate that from anybody else though. He was a scumbag like that.
You could always try Zenni Optical:
http://www.zennioptical.com/
I come in to work dressed almost every morning.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Poloshirt with a popped collar and a pair of tennis shirts worn in the "commando-style" are all the rage, be sure to finish it off with a pair of Top-Siders without socks and a faux-hawk and you will be the fashionista rock-star of the IT Dept.
who cares what do you dress like ?
If people don't believe that they care, it is possible to wear something so eye-bleach inducing that they will care.
Or something so filthy.
So, basically, there is a line somewhere. The question is where.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
and insist that everyone call you Captain.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Cargo pants, muscle shirt and a utility vest full of unfathomable gizmos. Fedora.
Not just any muscle shirt, mind you, the black see-through mesh one.
That just screams "professional."
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
No Jeans. Ever. You're not stacking pallets. Unfortunately yes, it is the end of your days of jeans.
Slacks, not Khakis (except, perhaps, on Friday). Black. Maybe grey, depending on how it looks with the rest of your clothes. Black goes with everything, so if all else fails, go black.
Shirt: Button down, opaque, no logos. Undershirt should not be visible (white t-shirt works best). Yes, you are expected to wear two layers of shirt. I would suggest solid colors, although some of the HR and Management guys at my job look decent in plaid and other simple patterns.
The pants and shirt I have in my assigned uniform are a polyester/cotton blend. They don't breathe, at all, but they are nearly indestructible.
Shoes: Black, polishable. Not sneakers. Ask a buddy of yours in the military to help you pick out a good pair of dress shoes / boots, if nothing else. The military guys I work with always have excellent looking boots that they swear are comfortable enough to wear for 16+ hours without killing you. I'm certain some military slashdotter can reply here with suggestions for good, comfortable, decent looking boots.
Socks: Black, not white. Preferably not athletic socks, although you can usually get away with them. You can't get away with white socks. Black.
Tie: Optional for techs, usually. If not, go for a bow tie. Bow ties are cool.
(Belts are always black, by the way)
No. Belts match shoes: brown shoes, brown belt. Black shoes, brown belt. For guys anyway.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
A tweed or Herringbone jacket, and jeans should be enough. You can switch off on a collared shirt & T-shirt. I wouldn't bother with the tie either way.
Give a hand, not a hand-out.
I've been barefoot all summer for every summer for the last 15 years or so. At one point, the dumbass sales manager of my 20-employee company (online-only B2B website; zero risk of client facetime at all ever) got a boilerplate employee agreement that he wanted to switch us all to. I'd already signed an employee agreement, and gotten the "we own everything you do in your off time" clause stricken. So I really didn't want to sign a new contract, and he wasn't the boss of me anyway (we answered to the same boss, who liked me way better).
As I read through the contract, I was horrified to find a strict dress code. Then, I laughed in the manager's face when I saw "Casual attire may be worn on Fridays, jeans and sneakers may be worn if clean, and jeans must be pleated." The only reference to shoes was "sneakers may be worn" on Fridays. Sounds to me like they expect us to be barefoot every day, except Fridays, when we're allowed to wear shoes. That contract sat on my desk for 6 months, until I quit the company because I'd decided to move back home. I mean... pleated jeans? Are you kidding? There were so many holes in my jeans, you couldn't find a straight line to iron.
In my experience, hackers working for small companies get free run of the place. I can't imagine working for a company that enforces a dress code.
All corporate dress is an iterative prisoner's dilemma. The first day, wear suit and tie. After that, dress like your boss.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
At a small startup, my boss (director of development) wears cargo shorts, a t-shirt and those Tom's shoes that look like slippers. Our VP of Product wears jeans and a hoodie and is often barefoot while in his office. Probably the most stodgy place I've worked was IBM, and even there there were several managers who wore jeans, polo shirts and athletic shoes. They tended to stay away from shorts, sandals and t-shirts. As a non-manager developer I wore all three (shorts, sandals, t-shirts).
I totally agree. The only case with an exception is you can wear a black belt with white shoes... which by themselves are usually less formal. The only other color of shoes I've worn in the workplace is navy. Finding a navy belt is somewhat of a chore, but if you have navy shoes you'd better have a matching belt.
(BTW I assumed you meant black shoes, black belt. Happens to the best of us and more as we age...)
You can still get away with jeans, and the occasional t-shirt, but most days a decent (un-tucked) button up and decent shoes should be a standard. It really depends on the company culture.
It has been many a month since a comment made me laugh out loud and scare my coworkers across the hall. I damn near snorted out Coke after reading that one. Congrats to you sir or madam!
I'd recommend a casual dress shirt with your jeans or khakis, tucked or not depending on how casual you can get away with. There's something about a t-shirt that, when worn by most, doesn't say leadership. This matters because your reports need to see you as a leader, and your supervisor needs to see you as a leader.
Polo shirts make you look like a prick. There, yes, I said it.
What if "the job you want" includes "ability to wear a t-shirt"? Just saying. I like my job, it's pretty casual, but not -that- casual: I miss wearing t-shirts every day.
Meanwhile, unless they're wearing an actual suit, to me a person wearing a belt always implies "person's pants don't fit". Maybe I'm just weird, though.
I vintage or casual blazer over your bear-o-dactyl t-shirt and jeans will have the desired effect without making you look like a suit. You can also easily take it off or put it on depending on who you are dealing with over the course of the day.
Your company never had any kind of dress code, and now you think your dress is inappropriate?
So it means you are self-conscious of what you're currently wearing, and find it incorrect, and want to rectify it.
Simple: make sure you are comfortable with the image you are giving to other people. It's about you, and no one else.
If you think you need to dress up, please do so. If you think you are all right, then please do so. If you really need clothes to give you a superior look, then I guess you should have it. Whatever you need, so you can feel adequate, and just remove that burden from your chest, even if it requires you to throw out all these beautiful t-shirts you own.
I'm in a position of authority right now, I nearly only wear t-shirts. However, the thing I hate the most is being smelly or having some unclean clothes. So I prefer to be very clean, thank you. But I still wear t-shirts.
If I have to meet someone from another company, who might not understand the gaming company's dress code, I will dress up for that occasion, as most people WILL judge the book by its cover. But so far, I have not dressed up for anything internal, including the day I was interviewed.
Good luck!
If you are in a leadership role you need to dress the part. You are in a position of authority and the first element of assuming control revolves around your subordinates perception via your non-verbal gestures. I don't think that gives you a free-pass to being a great boss but that first step will make it easier.
For men, military style tactical boots, kept polished, can be almost indistinguishable from dress shoes, and are an order of magnitude or two more comfortable. In addition, the type with steel toes and non-slip soles are approved footwear for any place I have ever been that required safety boots.
Add a set of comfortable gel insoles to those and you will have foot nirvana all day.
For women, stick with comfortable shoes over pretty/fancy ones. Even sitting at a desk all day, your feet have a major impact on your overall comfort. Low heels or flats that match a variety of clothes can be life savers. And don't forget that you too can use the lovely gel insoles to improve comfort.
In either case, it is also nice to be able to sneak the shoes off under a desk and stretch your feet out while you work. Just keep clean feet and no one will even know. (Except the support monkey checking your Ethernet cables)
If you are sitting for longer hours than standing and moving around, wear a belt that is slide adjustable instead of one that has pre-punched holes. Remember that the longer you are sitting, the more your spine compresses and the more your girth temporarily increases (no matter how fit you are).
If you end up having to wear dress shirts and find them uncomfortably hot or cool, Under Armor and similar companies make thermal regulating undershirts in a variety of colors, including black, white, and neutral/tan that work well enough for desert and cold weather troops. They are well worth the investment in my opinion. They also allow you to slip off a dress shirt if you have to do a desk dive, dust yourself off in the appropriate restroom, and return to full dress without missing a beat.
You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.
Specifically, the size of the company. If you are a director and will have to "crawl under cobwebby desks to check that equipment is properly plugged in", your company is not big enough for you to worry too much about your day to day dress at the office unless your superiors have a tendency to bring by big, important clients.
So, your day to day dress should be what you think is appropriate for the work you do and meets the requirements of the company dress code, which may not even exist. For days when you will be meeting with clients, etc. you should wear business attire, possibly even a suit.
Oh, and keep a set of working clothes at the office just in case you have to do some work on a day you need to dress up.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
No, no, you want to say "serious business." Mirrored shades, porn 'stache, aloha shirt, silk sport coat, and a concealed smartphone holster.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Watch Office Space, and don't forget the coffee cup in your hand. Make sure they have a cover sheet on their TPS Report!
Exactly, I love suits myself, very comfy. Just dont dress better than the owner/big boss.
Tomorrow is another day...
Pair a nice suit with a Casio Databank watch. (Yes, I do this.)
It's different when it's either explicitly mentioned in policy or when everybody's doing it. I walk around work in Vibrams, but I also have Merrell Barefoot shoes I usually wear. The Merrells have a zero-millimeter heel-toe drop, but a stiff 14mm thick heel.
Most shoes have a thick heel--my combat boots (goretex lined, thinsulate, etc, waterproof and warm for $150--girls pay that much for Uggs that warn not to walk in them "too much"!) are the most awkward shit, the heel is like 3 inches thick and they're 1/2 inch at the ball of the foot. Most shoes seem to have some 1/2 to 3/4 inch sole at the ball, then 1 1/2-2 1/2 inch at the heel.
Barefoot is natural. It's also hazardous, hence the Vibrams; in an office environment this isn't a problem, and honestly I've walked 9 miles on pavement through a poorly maintained city (rats, rusty nails and broken glass) barefoot and not got a scratch or a blister. Raised heels can cause or aggravate back, knee, and hip problems; and a firm, raised arch can (read: does) weaken the tendons in the foot. I've experienced that first-hand: I used to wear Reeboks with a raised arch for a few years, then switched back to Converse with the absolutely flat soles (I wore those for a good decade or so growing up)... it was incredibly painful. Months of physical therapy (read: walking in flat shoes or no shoes, and for a while I had insoles in the flat shoes to supply some support) fixed the issue; I use raised arches in bicycle shoes now, I don't walk in them.
In any case, I have some smooth, shiny black linen pants (almost but not quite slacks, Lands' End Twill Pants really) and I've noticed that they really do look somewhat stylish with no shoes. NOTHING makes Vibrams look stylish. Technical issues (read: traction) aside, though, I think you could get away with formal-wear (tie and tails, gowns) ballroom dancing with no shoes. A woman in a gown can DEFINITELY pull it off barefoot; a man has to overcome a little dissonance with the slacks, but it's more a curiosity than a clashing.
In any case, it's harmless if there are no workplace hazards (workplace hazards call for boots; severe crushing hazards call for steel or brass toed boots), and tactful. Shorts are less tactful (kilts are actually pretty gaudy in American culture standards). It's really a matter of people LIKING women's legs and nobody liking men's legs, hence why women can get away with skirts but men need appropriate length trousers.
Still, if you're trying to keep a professional image, it's valuable to push it as far as you can. A workplace still FEELS professional with a minor deviation; it becomes part of local business culture. Major deviation changes the established image, instead of amending it. Think suits vs business casual, you really have different expectations of a business casual environment versus a formal environment, but they're both professional... but if the business casual folks all wear baseball caps during baseball season, you take a second look and then just shrug and accept that as a little expression (and you expect that kind of expression in a casual environment, whereas a formal environment you wouldn't expect some suited-up lawyer to wear a fucking baseball cap).
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BROWN belt with BLACK or BLUE pants?????
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White is less formal?! Are you kidding me?!
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I believe he was being deliberately facetious in suggesting that a brown belt matched both brown and black shoes, hence the "for guys" at the end.
In fact, I'm abiding by that dress code today. Black shoes with jeans and a brown belt.
We've all heard most of the advice here. I've seen cases where either side of the argument is correct; it ultimately comes down to the culture of your organization. For my part, when I was younger and my goal was to be taken more seriously, I found that overdressing for my part was useful. These days, I have to underdress so people won't find me so aloof and intimidating. In your situation, I'd probably keep the geek-cred. I've seen it handy for attracting and retaining talent.
BROWN shoes with BLACK pants?????
"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
Then why change what you wear? Maybe Im missing someting, but unless your boss specifically said to change what you wear, it seems perfectly reasonable to continue with what you used before. How the boss (you) dresses sets the tone somewhat. Though perhaps something that blends in with various coffee, soda, and doritos type stains, since its less acceptable among higher level people to have visible stains covering a significant percentage of their clothing. And if your doing a lot of crawling around and that sort of stuff, try and keep the holes in your pants to a minimum. Good luck, and I hope your conversion to manager-demon is as painless as possible. Oh, and why on EARTH would anyone ask slashdot for clothing advice... Im surprised at how few terrible suggestions there were.
I worked for a .com as .com was going the way of the 1929 Stock Market.
Our HR manual had a section titled "Dress Code"
It Said:
We don't have a dress code. Don't be the reason we need one.
Ahhh. The sanity in those insane days!
KETCHUP?! With LOBSTER you want KETCHUP?!
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Your options are:
1. khakis + polo
2. khakis + short sleeve button down shirt (not hawaiian) - this is my consultant "uniform". boring but functional (comfortable, no dry cleaning required, inexpensive)
3. black jeans + shirt above - cheating, but works
4. blue jeans + button down shirt with japanese art on it (Koi or Geshi or something) + sport jacket - basically what non-geek would consider friday night attire.
5. black slacks + any shirt above
#4 is a bit geek-chic, but for a boss at a trendy web company it generally works.
obviously in all cases you wear good shoes. no retro sneakers, skater shoes or sandals.
if you're a CEO with $100m+ in assets you can wear whatever you want. a pink floyd t-shirt, cargo shorts, and sandals. then people will think you're a creative eccentric.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
At least a dozen people at my company go around in socks w/ no shoes while at the office... though I had to admit that heading into the restroom (which is shared with other companies on our floor) seems to be a stretch.
I take my shoes off at my desk, and very occasionally will head to a neighboring cube to talk something out w/ putting them back on.
Easy solution. Wear braces. Then you don't have to worry about what to do with your ox blood monkstraps or camel wingtips.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
I'm team lead for a technical team, BAU dress is jeans + polo shirt (all black). If a customer is due onsite then I'm wearing chinos and a shirt and tie,
All of my managers are in suits without ties. I'd wear mine more if I could still fit in to it.
my friend worked at a mini-golf course which unofficially offered occasional free games for friends of employees.
my second time, i showed up to claim it without shoes and played my round. my friend was promptly fired the next day for my bare feet.
this was at a fucking mini-golf course in hick-ville. i would be extremely cautious about being barefoot at work for any reason.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
khakis, shoes, polo for the geeks.
slacks and dress shirts for the supervisors
add a tie if your a manager
anything above that, you need a suit.
Wait, business casual means jeans, right?
What happens if you've got the wrong color? Do you get kicked out of the club?
You really shouldn't be doing coke at work
Not too long ago when I worked for IBM, I was sent to work on a project in one of Boston's fleet street banks. Not knowing anyone else working on the project and seeing how it was a financial institution and not say, a car wash, I showed up to work in a suit and tie on the first day. I was a bit overdressed, as I didn't get the memo that the first day was going to be setting up the office, pushing desks around and setting up networks and computers in some war-room format. I stood awkwardly in the middle of the room with my new co-workers milling around in jeans and casual shirts. Presently, a door opened and a similar suited grey hair scanned the crowd, spotted me, and made a beeline to where I was standing. He handed me some papers and started on some legalese jargon while I nodded thoughtfully, wondering who the heck he was. Then out of the crowd came someone who turned out to be my boss and intercepted the papers and stood in between with his back toward me to talk to the client. I got the message and made myself scarce. Later my boss found me and plucked at my jacket and said I needed to dress down and blend in, the client was watching expenses and didn't want more high level people on the site than specified in the contract. My then-boss was wearing a "Mr. Bubble" t-shirt that day, and I have to say his wardrobe didn't improve much over the course of the project.
Some days I just wear a suit and tie for the heck of it. It's the new way to defy authority in these modern times.
The promoted a 12 year old to Director?
Oh dear.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
This is stupid, most people will tell you it doesn't matter but it really does.
Some people will tell you it matters but it really doesn't.
For a lot of people, it does matter. The fallacy is that it matters because it is important -- that wearing khakis and a button down is a meaningful expression of adultness and professionalism, and being judged as such is a meaningful assessment of a person's worth as an employee, colleague and representative of a company.
In fact, it only matters because it is a handy way to identify that a cog meets the spec. for the machine.
You do realize there are dress shirts in other colors than white, right? Not to mention that matching suits to ties and shirts is actually one more item to match beyond business casual wear. Not to mention the right shoes, watches and other accessories. There's nothing about dressing well in business attire that is lazy, unless you have no idea what you are doing.
You wear a suit when you want to impress upon someone that you are there for business. Admittedly, this is a holdover from the days when even some manual laborers wore at least coats and people in any white collar jobs wore white collared shirts and suits to work. In short, if you face customers, you wear what they expect, if not, business casual is not too bad. At my work place, directors and above tend to go with the higher end of business casual, frequently wearing dress shirts with dress pants without ties or suit coats. Other places, everyone wears polos and khakis. You can't really go wrong that way.
As for a woman... I won't lie, people tend to have higher expectations of women's ability to pick something nice out. She can get away with jeans as a staffer, but as a manager, she may want to start thinking about the female equivalent of khakis. Problem with pants is that it is really going to depend on how she looks in pants, which is not going to be as consistent for women as it is for men. If she has an HR or accounting department, there tends to be a higher percentage of women in those. I would take some cues from what some of those women wear, if you filter out the obvious glamour girls. Those are sit down jobs where you aren't getting under desks and it should match what people might expect out of you as a manager. If she uses the sales women or marketing women as models, she will tend to be quite overdressed for what she's doing.
Definitely wear pants.
In all seriousness, feel the mood of the office. What are your job peers wearing? What does the person you report to wear and those who report to you? You don't have to emulate them and can still be an outlier, but you're in trouble if they are wearing ties and you're wearing shorts and sandals. You're probably safe with pants/jeans, a collar (on a shirt, not by itself) and shoes (comfy vs dress shoes, your choice).
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.timscott.sliderule
Wearing a juniper tshirt to a Cisco sales meeting might get you some bargaining leverage. I've heard of people leading the Cisco sales people right past the racks with competitor's equipment in it as a way of pointing out that they have options...
Please, if you are female, wear something that doesn't show cleavage or mini skirt. This is work place, not your family / friends get together. Hell I would be perfectly happy if all my female co-worker dress like Hilary Clinton. If you are male, shirts and slacks will do, or polo with jeans. Others do have good advice, use your boss as the guild line.
I don't hold it against someone if they want to dress nicely for work, but for people doing back-room software development and never talking to customers or vendors in person then as long as they're dressed neatly (no ripped or worn-out clothes, no offensive slogans/pictures, etc.) I see no problems with dressing casual.
If your interactions are only with people from the company then who cares what do you dress like ?
It does matter, on a psychological level. If your attire contrasts too much with everyone else's, people will think of you as unique, which is not to say strange. It's one of the tricks the modern BBC uses to make the Doctor weird and friendly at the same time - they dress him at the edge of plausibility, but using inoffensive colours and well-cut garments. It gives people under-the-skin cues for how they should feel about him.
I've found one tried-and-true method for taking advantage of this phenomenon: Dress more or less like everyone else, but spend a little more than they do on your clothes. So if your team tends towards jeans and t-shirts, buy really good quality jeans, iron them and wear unique, even hand-made shirts with interesting designs (but no slogans). Buy a really good quality belt and shoes.
The effect is that people will unconsciously identify you as one of them, but with a trifle more status than the others. Kind of like an animal with a sleeker coat of fur.
Nota Bene: Good quality does not mean flashy. It's almost the opposite. The hallmarks of quality are that it's subtle, understated and designed to look as good in a decade as it did on the day you bought it.
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
Business clothing, casual or otherwise, doesn't have to be expensive. While $150 might buy two blouses at Nordstrom, that same $150 can fill an entire shopping cart at Goodwill, and if you take your time a lot of it can be designer or premium brand clothes. While ripping your Alfani skirt on a server rack would be a tragedy if you paid the full $650 for the suit, when it cost you $12 it's not that big a deal any more. If you loathe shopping as much as I do drag along a partner who actually enjoys it and the experience won't be quite so miserable. Plus you get to giggle together at some of the truly bizarre items that turn up there.
It's a good idea to keep a change of wrinkle-resistant clothes in your car or office. Nothing says "unprofessional" quite like showing up for a meeting with executives and customers with half a cappuccino slopped down the front of your white blouse, or a big rip in the butt where the old RS6000 grabbed you as you tried to squeeze behind it. Speaking from experience, on both counts.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
While I'm not an expert in fashion for males or females, you don't have to look far to notice that there are lots of tech CEOs that just throw a sports coat or blazer on top of their t-shirt and jeans. No one questions their authority or style, and it projects the confidence of a real owner. You already have the jeans and t-shirt, so I'd suggest picking up a few sport coats or blazers to wear with them. It adds that aura of authority, and is easily removed/swapped.
Funtime Candy Wow! - my plan for eventually conquering Japan.
I think you could get away with formal-wear (tie and tails, gowns) ballroom dancing with no shoes
One of the best dancers I know dances barefoot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUmlHhQDXAs
Black shoes. With everything.
I wear black jeans so yeah, even jeans.
I wear sports sandals when I'm wearing shorts. I wear neither to work.
If you ever do get the chance to have a real job that has a real dress code you'll learn pretty fast why they have them. I can guarantee those people you harbor so much irrational hate for are far more skilled than you at applying clothing.
I have a real job that has a real dress code. The man that demands it is a cock, the dress code is stupid and unnecessary and some of the smartest dressers are frankly fucking incompetent.
How about letting people dress comfortably in the office and enjoying the individuality and creativity that releases. Focus people's teamworking on the work, not the way they dress.
Add one more to the pointy haired boss pool.
Welcome to the dark side.
Or maybe you have a sense of humour and are enjoying the responses. I know I am.
My 100% constant work dress as a developer:
Black pants, black shoes, black socks (yes I've seen ppl wear gray, white, red etc with the forementioned), black belt and a nicely colored shirt, sometimes plain color sometimes with discrete pattern on it (if it takes more than 2 seconds to analyze the pattern... nope aint going to be worn). Now depending on the color shirt, the exposure of my t-shirt I normally wear will define the color of t-shirt.
When I was supporting a manufacturing environment's network and computer based production systems jeans and collared shirt since I was crawling around alsorts of oil, yuck and other stuff.
Oh and if you are female there is a fine line between a nice shirt, with slight exposure to "Hey I am a slut, promote me or let me blow you." The latter you may be able to pull off if you do not have the attitude to go with it.
Tes
By the username, I'm assuming you're female. If you decide to stick with jeans, invest in some that are a dark shade, are well-fitted (get them tailored if you can't find a pair that fits perfectly), and are in good shape. Make sure you buy better quality tops; it shows. Some unique detailing will help, too. Invest in a few unique, shorter blazers that you can take on and off when needed (us ladies are always cold in those damn offices and server rooms anyways).
I've invested a little in a couple of decently-made pants (i.e. wool pants with good drape). If you hunt around a designer outlet store, scan the sale racks at some of the nicer department stores, or visit someplace like Winners, you can pay a reasonable amount for a mid-range item. I have a pair of Anne Klein wool pants that have taken a lot of abuse, still look pretty good, and have a couple more years use in them. Good wool is actually pretty hardy.
Stash a pair of dress pants and shoes at work, in case of big wig clients or meetings.
Some of that general advice would apply to the guys, too. Buy nicer stuff, and keep it in good condition. If you typically don't wear business, store one 100% business outfit (including shoes and dark socks) at work. I've noticed a lot of the men's suit stores now sell semi-casual shoes, shirts, and higher-end jeans that are meant to be worn together, sometimes with a sport coat. That will make a much better impression than your worn-out shoes from Wal-mart, and the $15 - 50% polyester shirt you picked up from the mall. Impressions really do matter.
For everyday apparel, I would go with the same level of formality as the other people of your (new) level in the company.
If you are meeting with customers, it's all about knowing them. Don't come in an IBM style blacksuit-whiteshirt-tie clothes if you are meeting with jeans and t-shirt guys.
And don't listen to people saying "You must wear slacks and a shirt" or any such idiocy. It always depends on the local culture. I work at a gaming studio at the moment, and people at all levels are just going with the style they are comfortable in. Studio head is consistently jeans+t-shirt. Before that, online poker where it was uniformly jeans/khakis/slacks + polo/shirt across the whole company. Before that, management consultancy - even the drones were suit-and-tie.
And when it comes to the notion of "dress above your position so people think of you as a boss". My personal (but untested belief) is that dress so you look good, while not going below the expected formality is the optimal strategy.
You are running a department and will have to make customers and management think you are responsible.
Yes, it is the end of jeans and t-shirts. You don't have to wear power outfits. Button down shirts and slacks would do, or the female version. Don't wear sandals or sneakers either. Look for role models.
it's more likely than you think.
DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
What, my star trek uniform is not good enough for you?
I left Jeans and T-shirts behind as I grew older rather than climbed the Career ladder and mostly wear Chinos and open knecked cotton shirt. It seems to me that you are in a position to set a dress code. The rule I use is that the dress should be situationally appropriate, I expect people to be smart for meeting with clients, but that doesn;t mean a suit. A clean ironed Polo Shirt and Chinos is smarter than a tatty old Rayon Lounge Suit.
No, jeans are casual. Lands' End sells top quality business casual stuff. And jeans, which are nice--though honestly I'm a traditionalist, although Levis has eliminated the traditional cuts (like the 509) that people respected since the dawn of time. Levis are more authentic for the simple reason that Levis invented the damn things.
In any case, business casual usually involves a clean-cut style with subdued colors and polo shirts (with buttons, but not a full button up shirt), an undershirt, and some form of linen trousers. I point at Lands' End because Polo seems to be more of a boating thing--everything they make looks like something you'd wear on vacation day, hanging out by the pier drinking shitty beer and eating crabs. Though Doc Martin and a few others are also respectable (not my style).
T-shirts, jeans, and shorts are casual-wear. Jeans and t-shirts are allowed in some environments out of necessity (durable, cheap), in others as a dress code compromise. Jeans are still trousers; shorts aren't, and aren't work-appropriate in a business casual environment at ANY time. As I said, people like women's legs, and so skirts are fine on women; it's really that arbitrary. "Male dominated society" is the usual explanation, but really even women like women's legs.
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I don't even go that far. I'm a fan of Lands' End and I buy direct ... around December. Last time they gave $40 off and free shipping per $100 order, so I made 3 $100 orders. I shopped overstock, got $70 pants for $40 each, packed in some socks and shirts I needed to round to $101 $105 $107, with the 40% off that brings my $70 pants down to $24 each overall. Solomon Grundy want pants too!
In the end I got some $600 of stuff for $220-ish. Good Will is cheaper, sure, but I make 3 times as much as I spend. My expenses amount to around $1200/mo (gotta eliminate that car loan soon...) and I make over $60k/year. My clothes are in good working order, I sew and repair them and then dump them at Good Will after 2-3 years and buy new stuff. That doesn't mean I'm going to go spend $150 on 2 shirts, though; hell no, I get my correct size in tailor fit at $20-$25 per shirt, THEN discounts (and you can break a 30% discount so often on Lands' End that I won't buy if they're not running that deep a sale). If I wanted to spend so much money, I'll have my clothes actually tailored to fit me; off the shelf stuff is cheap or I'm not buying it.
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1 - look one level up from where you will be, and check their approach to clothing. You are on a level that interfaces between your people and that level above - match upwards, not downwards. Your staff knows you're the boss (a good boss doesn't need to stress that), and the people above you must see you as part of the team to make you effective in both camps. Good grooming goes with that, but that should be second nature at any level. Don't overdress, though, or you fall out of line with people at your own level.
2 - buy good brands if your income allows it. The better brands stay nice much longer. Focus on things you can combine, but keep it simple and sober as that is more classy and less fashion/season sensitive.
3 - shoes are important. One of the little secrets of bodyguards and doormen is shoes. Make sure they are new, or at least well cared for and run off heels/soles repaired. Just spend some time in a business district having a coffee and watch what shoes people wear - you'll soon see what I mean.
Good luck. Building and leading your own team is fun and very rewarding if you get it right.
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