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Bilingual Kids Show More Creativity

An anonymous reader tips news of a study from researchers at the University of Strathclyde which found bilingual children to be significantly more successful at a set of tasks than children who spoke only one language. "The differences were linked to the mental alertness required to switch between languages, which could develop skills useful in other types of thinking." Lead researcher Fraser Lauchlan said, "Bilingualism is now largely seen as being beneficial to children but there remains a view that it can be confusing, and so potentially detrimental to them. Our study has found that it can have demonstrable benefits, not only in language but in arithmetic, problem solving and enabling children to think creatively. We also assessed the children's vocabulary, not so much for their knowledge of words as their understanding of them. Again, there was a marked difference in the level of detail and richness in description from the bilingual pupils."

221 comments

  1. Multiculturalism by gagol · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    rocks!

    --
    Tomorrow is another day...
    1. Re:Multiculturalism by gagol · · Score: 0

      Everybody, get your hands on Rosetta Stone and learn a new language.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    2. Re:Multiculturalism by gagol · · Score: 1

      That must be why Cirque du Soleil is from Quebec...

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    3. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That is a great way to learn a language, I am using it to learn spanish on my spare time.

    4. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're either an American, a cunt, or both. Language has nothing to do with it.

    5. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No thanks. In the amount of time it takes to learn a new spoken/written language, I could have become an expert in any other more useful thing. If you speak English, there's little point to learning a second language. This isn't some arrogant pompous statement. I just mean that, in almost any business or travel situation you are likely to ever be in, the other people are likely going to speak a common tongue -- English.

      Some people say "well, gosh, you need to learn another language to be well-rounded and so you can travel". That's bullshit. Great, I learn German. That'll help me for the one week of my life that I ever spend visiting in Germany. How is it going to help me in Japan, China, Mexico, Spain, Canada, France, Norway, Iceland, Russia, Sweden or any other place?

      I'm almost 40. I'm a professional. I deal in a highly technical field with other highly technical people from all over the world who are from and working in all parts of the world. Every day, I deal with people who are French, Indian, German, Thai, Japanese, Chinese, Russian and countless other nationalities. At no point have I ever thought "gosh, I sure wish I knew ONE of these many languages". It just isn't necessary. Now, if you plan to go live and work in another country, sure. Learn the language. If your whole goal is to be a specialist in arab history, learn arabic. Great. But you don't need to learn a second, third, or even fourth language for most jobs and you certainly don't need it in your day to day life.

    6. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using Rosetta Stone is ill-advised. It's quite possible the worst self-learning program ever imagined. Clearly whoever wrote those lessons only knew one language, the language of which the reader is learning from.

    7. Re:Multiculturalism by zAPPzAPP · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I wasn't biligual as a child, but I am now at least.

      For me, from the moment on I was able to not only communicate, but also think in both languages, a lot changed.
      Certain concepts click together easily in one language, but if I had to use the other language to grasp them, I'd get stuck. And it's not always my first language which is superior, as you might expect.

      Each language brings with it a different way of thinking, the cultural aspect, that's coded into it.

      It's very helpful to switch between languages for different tasks. Kind of like using mutiple virtual desktops.

    8. Re:Multiculturalism by xaxa · · Score: 2

      Learning a language will teach you how to learn a language, which will be useful if you want to learn a few words of German for your holiday.

      I started German evening classes a couple of years ago, and was surprised at how two people in the class struggled so much. It turned out they were the only two (of about 14) who had never been taught another language, which was unusual for here (they were immigrants from the US and the Bahamas).

      (I could probably do something more useful than learn German, but I could also do something more useful than write this comment.)

    9. Re:Multiculturalism by Tim+the+Gecko · · Score: 2

      Great, I learn German. That'll help me for the one week of my life that I ever spend visiting in Germany. How is it going to help me in Japan, China, Mexico, Spain, Canada, France, Norway, Iceland, Russia, Sweden or any other place?

      It would help you a lot. You'd have a better understanding of what it's like to get by in a country without anyone knowing your language. You'd be grateful when people speak their language slowly and clearly and try and help you. Best of all, you can relate much better to the Japanese, Chinese, Mexican, Spanish, etc. people you meet in your own country.

      There are other nice things too. You'd have the experience of the first joke you "get" in a foreign language. The fact that you understand it makes even the crappiest "knock, knock" joke awesomely funny. And for your example specifically: "No one who speaks German could be an evil man".

    10. Re:Multiculturalism by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      At your point in life, no, it would be pointless to learn a new language (unless it's something you WANT to do). The study is about people that grew up learning 2 languages (as I did). My family speaks English and I was enrolled in French Immersion from Kindergarten until I graduated high school. It really doesn't take any more time to learn 2 languages than it does to learn 1 since you are learning them at the same time, and believe it or not, our grades tended to be better than the English-only students! The only disadvantages we had were losing 3 elective classes (one per year for 3 years) in high school and having a language barrier between the textbook and your parents (you end up doing a LOT of translating, but it's good practice).

      As for the article, one thing I did notice in high school (and yes I noticed it at the time, not "in hindsight") is that the bilingual students did tend to fair a little better in the technical classes (math, computers, etc) than the English-only students, even if those students didn't have much interest in the material.

      If I ever have kids, you can bet your ass they'll be bilingual.

    11. Re:Multiculturalism by ciurana · · Score: 4, Insightful

      4-language fluency here (Spanish, English, Russian, French) and working my way up in Japanese.

      The difference between doing business in English in a land where it's not the native language vs. the local/national language is huge. By not speaking the local language you limit your understanding ranging feim mere subtlety to complete conversations that may (and will) happen in front of you.

      Maybe it's because for a large chunk of the last 15 years I've arranged my business around international locales (e.g. I was doing business in 5 countries in July) -- I find knowing multiple languages to be a huge asset. It fine tuned my cultural sensibility and my ear (e.g. I can grasp significant snippets in Polish, German, Italian during a biz conversation). And it helps to lubricate all social situations.

      The ages at which I learned them were English: 16; French: 18; Russian: 24; Japanese (which I use the least and I'm far from fluent): 38. If I went to Japan on business more than 5 weeks/year I'd probably be more fluent.

      In the US or abroad I deal daily with people who speak these languages. Communicating with them in their native language can often create rapport and a better experience much faster. Great for business and interpersonal relationships.

      Just my $0.02 back. Cheers!

      --
      http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
    12. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can understand what you're saying. I'm an English speaker who learned my second language in my late twenties. I telecommute from SE Asia, so usually I use English for work and the local language for everything else. I can use my second language for technical things, but it requires a lot more concentration. The odd part is how unnatural it starts to feel to have everyday conversations in English - e.g. "we'll get dinner and then go for a beer" - those concepts just seem to be associated with the local dialect now.

      Of course, when I go home it takes all of twenty minutes to readjust when I travel...

      Our kid is bilingual (6 years old). I've never heard him mix languages unintentionally. I have and I've heard my wife (who learned English as an adult) do so, but not him...

    13. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I already speak Arabic. Unfortunately Arabic is a tough language (very diverse) and I can't read and write it (not very well anyways, the written Arabic, or the Fus-ha/formal/standard Arabic, is different than the colloquial) but I speak the colloquial Medanee (modern) and Felahee (farmer/olden) dialects decently (have been speaking it for about as long as I've been speaking English and I can communicate with those who speak my dialects almost fluently. Unfortunately when I encounter people who speak more distant dialects my ability to communicate with them substantially falls). I am now trying to learn Spanish because, around here, Spanish is often more useful than English. I don't plan on spending a lot of money, I just create vocab lists, watch television with captions, and look up necessary words on Google translate. Even though English is my primary language (I was born in the U.S.), I learned Arabic because I hung around my grandparents a lot and I also visited back home and watched a lot of Arabic T.V. there when I was young. I also took Arabic classes while I was young but I mostly forgot how to read it.

      Knowing Arabic helps me learn Spanish in three ways. First of all, many Spanish words are similar to Arabic words since the Spaniards and the Arabs have had a long history together.

      Secondly, knowing Arabic and trying to learn Spanish helps me to better formulate a learning strategy. For example, I understand Arabic much better than I speak it. Often times there maybe a few words that mean the same thing and being able to produce every single word with the same meaning with no Arabic context is difficult. I find that I can produce one or two words from scratch and I tend to do that but I am able to recognize many words and reproduce those words, as necessary, within a conversation after another, more fluent, Arab speaker has already produced it. So, when learning Spanish, I list the words to know back and forth (know them from English to Spanish and back) and, on the same list in a different column, I list the words to recognize when used. If there are four different words that essentially mean the same thing I'll try to memorize two in both directions (the two most commonly used/relevant/important) and the other two only in one direction. I also try to remember the different meanings between similar words of course and the various contexts that they are used in. When someone uses a word I haven't fully memorized in both directions I can easily recognize it and reuse it in opposed to reproducing it from scratch.

      Thirdly, because my Arabic isn't 100 percent fluent there are many words that I don't know in both directions (without context). This fact helps me to recognize what words to focus more attention on and what words to focus less attention on. If I know a word in both directions in Arabic then chances are it's important for me to know it back and forth in Spanish (since it's apparently important enough for me to know in Arabic). If I only know a word in one direction in Arabic (which can be hard to recognize until someone else actually uses the word) I don't have to spend as much time learning that word in both directions in Spanish.

      While this paragraph is hardly an example of my ability to write clearly (it's a Slashdot post, what do you expect), I do believe that being bilingual does help improve my reading and writing comprehension in English. I used to occasionally watch Arabic satellite at my grandparents house and while watching things in Arabic with English subtitles I often noticed that the English subtitles represent a poor rendition of what was said in Arabic. I used to think to myself "wow, what a poor translation" but then I think "well, how can I do better". I quickly find out that an accurate translation could easily require an entire page of explanation, just for a single word, and I end up saying, ahh, forget it, this translation is good enough. I believe this helps me recognize the ambiguous nature of language and it helps me formulate less ambiguous sentences.

    14. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and when I say that I am unable to reproduce a word from scratch, I mean if I haven't used the word in days or weeks or months. If I am around arab Speakers my arabic comes back very quickly and within an hour I will, once again, be almost fluent. Over time of not using it fluency falls again but it comes back very quickly with use and it stays with you throughout the period that you're using it and only goes away again after a prolonged period of not using it.

    15. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the whole point. It's an immersion program where the student is expected to learn without use of their native language. Rosetta Stone isn't the only one that believes that.

      IMHO, it tends to be better to learn various basic patterns and commonly used words which you then use to talk with native speakers or really anybody in the target language. Also, having some grammatical reference material does help, provided you're not obsessed over perfection until you've mastered basic communication.

    16. Re:Multiculturalism by HungWeiLo · · Score: 1

      I speak English fluently, passable Mandarin, and better-than-restaurant Spanish and Japanese. This means I mostly communicate effectively with a huge chunk of the world's population. Unlike you, I travel mainly for pleasure (in business, everyone speaks English of course), and I always venture away from the tourist hotspots so knowing the local language is invaluable and one can get much more out of travel by interacting with the locals at a more meaningful level.

      --
      There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
    17. Re:Multiculturalism by mce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm almost 50 in a highly technical field, but I can assure you that mastering 4 languages (Dutch, English, French, German - all reasonably fluently) is an enormous help. I have team members that are native French speakers with a limited knowledge of English. I have team members who are native German speakers and are quite fluent in English, but who still communicate faster in German. For me as the team leader it helps enormously that I can switch on the fly.

      Much more important, however, even as a "technical manager" I constantly have to deal with suppliers & potential customers from all over the world. Being able to switch languages to their native one or at least to their second best one opens an enormous amount of doors. Germany is a particularly good example of this. Especially in southern Germany practical knowledge of English is limited - even amongst engineers. They are always very pleasantly surprised when they discover that a foreigner speaks German fluently enough to do business with them. And if "doing business" sounds not technical enough, the same applies to our field application engineers. As a worldwide company, we have field application engineers "everywhere", but we cannot afford to have them in every country. So we require them to be multilingual so they can cover a wider area, travel with ease, and deal with people who master English less than perfectly.

      You say "how will German help me in Japan, China, Mexico, Spain, Canada, France, Norway, Iceland, Russia, Sweden or any other place?" And indeed, German will not help you in Japan. But it will help you in many European countries. French and Spanish will help you in a very large part of the world. Think of Africa & South America, for instance.

      Finally, the whole point of the reported research is that having grown up in a multilingual environment helps in other ways than just knowing languages.I fully understand that this may be hard to believe for people who didn't have that luck - a bit like inhabitants of flatland can't imagine the third dimension. But that doesn't make it untrue.

    18. Re:Multiculturalism by Jens+Egon · · Score: 1

      I find that compared to hiring a native teacher over the internets Rosetta Stone is worth at most a tenth of the asking price.

      In short: Even if it's ever so slightly useful, it's still a waste of money.

      If you have time to burn and don't have to pay for it, Rosetta Stone can save you 2 or 3 hours of other learning.

      More if you're slow ;-)

    19. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wondering does this count for spoken language only, or does it apply to programming languages. I know about 5 programming languages but only one spoken language. I know that knowing math helps programming but does it work the other way around?

    20. Re:Multiculturalism by Alioth · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, it is a pompous and arrogant statement, in many places they won't be able to speak English, especially if you go away from anywhere touristy.

      I started learning Spanish 4 years ago, basically because I felt like some Imperialist speaking English slowly and loudly at foreigners. It has had benefits I never even imagined, and never went out intending to have when I learned it. I only started so I could learn enough to do touristy things - get a hotel room, order a beer, get food, find directions, but it sort of turned into an addiction when I found out that learning languages was actually fun, and not the dull boring slog they made us do when they forced us to learn French at school (and unfortunately, I still don't speak more than 2 words of French. I learned almost nothing about French at school, partly due to lack of effort, partly due to the sheer boredom that the method to teach French in school induced. Learning language should be fun, and it's something humans do naturally, and turning it into a boring difficult slog is completely counterproductive, and school language teaching has failed generations of kids in this country).

      Some of the unintended consequences that have happened: I've now got a whole heap of Spanish friends, and good friends too. I've discovered new music I never would have discovered. TV and films I would never have known. Food that I would never have tasted otherwise, all because speaking the language gets me places I otherwise wouldn't have been. All of those have been ten times worth the effort of learning Spanish, and it was fun to do anyway! And when we talk about highly technical subjects, we understand each other a lot better. Even if a Spanish person is speaking English, I can understand why they make certain errors in English and what they mean when they make these errors so it's been enormously helpful even if the person I'm talking to is actually speaking English. The time spent learning Spanish has paid off for me more than 100 times. With a little more effort I'll be fluent. I'm not a kid either, I was 36 when I started learning it. (I actually gave a talk in Spanish with only 14 months of learning under my belt, it's actually not as hard as you expect since you can prepare beforehand). And yes, I now use Spanish every day.

      Also there have been studies that have shown that bilingualism may be more effective in slowing things like Alzheimers than drugs.

    21. Re:Multiculturalism by blackest_k · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm getting old so learning new languages seems to be a lot harder than it once was. I started learning Polish 10 years ago and I am fairly competent enough to converse with Polish friends. I let rooms to Poles in my home which really helped me learn to learn a language well you must use it.

      The hard thing about learning languages is building a vocabulary getting those words into your brain and usable. My favourite aid is cuebrain I use it on android but it is available on Iphone and windows mobile. It is a flashcard system and fairly open there are a lot of language pairs available and you can add your own cuecards. It isn't limited to languages for example chemical elements was easy to create mapping symbol to name.

      Cuebrain (optionally) uses svox voices to speak the words, I bought hungarian and english so I can listen to as well as read the words. It could as easily be phrases. You can also compete against other users, trying to speed up to climb the rankings can become addictive.
      most card sets can be completed in around a minute or less once you are familiar with the set.
      so it's something you can do to kill time.
      Obviously you need to learn grammar and sentence structure and inflection too and unfortunately that can be a bit dry i use ebooks for that. Also Google translate is very useful especially when conversing over the internet. Of course google translate isn't perfect but with the drilling exercises more and more words will come to have meaning.

      Someone posted that different languages give you the ability to think differently and concepts can be easier in one language over another and that I would say is true.

      It would be interesting to find out what proportion of Slashdot users are multilingual I would have thought a majority can program to some extent and human languages are a natural extension to programming languages. I would think most of us have the aptitude and the intelligence to be quite successful at developing the capacity of our brains to think and be more creative.

      Funny how it is always the people who speak just one language who cannot see the advantage in speaking more than one :)

    22. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you if you want only to visit other countries for short periods of time. I took the plunge and moved to Brazil (with my Brazilian wife and already-bilingual kids). I've had an amazing experience for the last 7 years. But experiencing another culture like this cannot be done if you expect everyone to speak English. You have to get your hands dirty.

    23. Re:Multiculturalism by Harald+Paulsen · · Score: 1

      I don't know about asia, but european languages are related in so many ways, so learning one can help you understand things written in another.

      For example: Norwegian, Swedish and Danish are so simular that they usually can understand eachother. Icelandic is not that far away. Dutch to me sounds like a mix between German and English. People from Finland usually learn Swedish in school.

      Now, I don't speak either of these languages myself, but from what others have told me French, Italian and Spanish are related so much that you can get by in a pinch knowing one of those in one of the other countries.

      Switzerland has German and French as languages. Belgium has Dutch, German and French.

      It really is fascinating how some of the languages are related.

      To waste some time, have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages

      I have learned English and some German, but if I would learn another language it would be Spanish.

      --
      Harald
    24. Re:Multiculturalism by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      That's not multiculturalism, that's multilingualism. Something entirely different.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    25. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My French Teacher was Belgian, and she made us speak all en Francais in class. E.g. "qu'est-ce que vous dit?" I believe immersion helps to make the brain think in the language rather than waste time translating.

    26. Re:Multiculturalism by ami.one · · Score: 1

      A 3 digit UID ?

    27. Re:Multiculturalism by Topix · · Score: 1

      No thanks. In the amount of time it takes to learn a new spoken/written language, I could have become an expert in any other more useful thing.

      I'm pretty sure you have learned, or even studied, subjects that are not immediately 'useful' in your daily life, and are perfectly happy with them. I have no practical need to know the size of the Milky Way or the name of the nearest star, or the differences of expressive styles between different artists, or what Umberto Eco says about imprints in the context of semiotics, or how to read the runes of Ultima games, but I'm glad I do know them. These things make me into who I am as a person, practical things only make me into a person of a certain culture and a certain profession.

      To be frank, if you genuinely only know things that are 'useful', you are the most boring person in the world.

      HOWEVER, I'll grant you that forcing yourself to learn a new language at 40 if you have no need or interest in it would be pointless. But please don't use the 'usefulness' argument, It's OK to say you're not interested.

    28. Re:Multiculturalism by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Some people say "well, gosh, you need to learn another language to be well-rounded and so you can travel". That's bullshit. Great, I learn German. That'll help me for the one week of my life that I ever spend visiting in Germany. How is it going to help me in Japan, China, Mexico, Spain, Canada, France, Norway, Iceland, Russia, Sweden or any other place?

      Because Germans travel. There are hot single lonely German girls in every country you're likely to take vacations.

    29. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like people like you.
      Knowledge of a foreign language is a good way to screen native english people.
      If they only know english, no need to waste my time interviewing them. They probably have no curiosity or openness.
      The bad point for you is that I'm not the only one thinking this way, far from it actually.

    30. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No thanks. In the amount of time it takes to learn a new spoken/written language, I could have become an expert in any other more useful thing. If you speak English, there's little point to learning a second language. This isn't some arrogant pompous statement. I just mean that, in almost any business or travel situation you are likely to ever be in, the other people are likely going to speak a common tongue -- English.

      By definition that is quite an arrogant and pompous statement, because you think it's useless. And think about it, the world speaks english because of the pompous arrogants that have(had) power over the world and don't care about learning other languages (tip: one day, the chinese will think the same way)

      But you don't need to learn a second, third, or even fourth language for most jobs and you certainly don't need it in your day to day life

      You're missing out on the main point: learning a second language develops the brain in ways that monolingual brains don't. New vocabulary also changes the way you think.

      Can you imagine some color blind person saying that he doesn't need to see blue because green and red are enough for his/hers daily lives? That's how I think of you right now.

    31. Re:Multiculturalism by ice3 · · Score: 1

      replying to cancel an incorrect mod.

  2. Correlation, Causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Alternatively, bilingual children tend to be raised by people with greater drive and skill in problem solving, notably immigrants.

    1. Re:Correlation, Causation by gagol · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What about people living in Quebec, a lot people there speaks varying levels of english. Also in Europe, many people learn many languages there too. Cultural isolationism fail.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    2. Re:Correlation, Causation by gagol · · Score: 1

      Thinking if it, the must be other parts of the globe people routinely speaks many languages. Slashdoters of the world, would you enlighten us about your particular region?

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    3. Re:Correlation, Causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      yes.. a lot of them solve problems alright.. problem: no money. solution: move to USA and bilk the welfare system.

    4. Re:Correlation, Causation by xaxa · · Score: 3, Informative

      Luxembourg is a good example -- people born there (to Luxembourgish parents) tend to speak Luxembourgish, German, French and English.

      Many people in Wales speak both English and Welsh.

      A huge number of Europeans speak their native language plus English, but how often they use English will depend on their occupation. Some universities give lectures in English (rather than the local language), and some workplaces work in English.

    5. Re:Correlation, Causation by oiron · · Score: 2

      Nice and Amerocentric!

      If you read TFA, you'd find that the study was of kids who spoke English and Gaelic, or Italian and Sardinian. That kind of assumes British or Italian/Sardinian kids, not immigrants to the US...

    6. Re:Correlation, Causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's clearly about the underpublicized scourge of illegal Sardinian immigration to the U.S.

      Don't forget, if it's on Slashdot, it's about the U.S.

    7. Re:Correlation, Causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and varying levels of French from what I've heard

    8. Re:Correlation, Causation by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      In Canada, our French Immersion classes actually tended to consist of a lot LESS immigrant families than the English one. The non-immersion Spanish classes an exception however, but many of them already had some Spanish from home.

    9. Re:Correlation, Causation by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      "Luxembourg is a good example -- people born there (to Luxembourgish parents) tend to speak Luxembourgish, German, French and English."

      I'm from there and I can confirm that. German is the first one we learn officially at 5 years, French comes at 6.
      Kids watch French and German TV from an early age since there are only a couple of Luxembourgish programs.
      Lots of people (about 25%) also learn a fifth one in High School, either Spanish/Italian or Latin.

      Also a third of the population are immigrants who have trouble coping with that multitude of languages, since knowledge of those languages is expected when you enter High School. Science/Math etc are in French sometimes history in German and so on. If you are not fluent in those, you won't stand a chance.

    10. Re:Correlation, Causation by xaxa · · Score: 1

      I visited a couple of weeks ago, and stayed with a Luxembourgish friend.

      I thought it was strange that, even though Luxembourgish is far more closely related to German, French seems more prominent in daily life outside the home. Shop staff speak French, menus are in French, the captions in the museums and galleries are in French first (and sometimes not in anything else). At the cinema the film was subtitled in French.

      Why not German?

    11. Re: Correlation, Causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is nothing new. Researchers have studied positive effects of true bilinguality (one language at home, another language outside the home) on IQ scores for at least 40 years. The earliest study was in Quebec, but it has been reproduced with many language-pairs. Generally the more different the two languages, the greater the boost in IQ (ex: Chinese and English).

    12. Re:Correlation, Causation by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Shop staff speak French, menus are in French, the captions in the museums and galleries are in French first (and sometimes not in anything else)."

            French is one of the official languages, laws for example are written in french.
            A large part of the work force is francophone, French, Belgians, Portuguese etc are talking French, almost all the waiters and cooks are French too. (not quite as rude as in Paris :-)

      "At the cinema the film was subtitled in French.
      Why not German?"

                  That's the distribution system, movies come usually from Belgium, they have only either French or Flemish subtitles available and since everybody speaks French but not Flemish....
                      Additionally, most movies have no German subtitles because they are almost all dubbed for the German market, that's why many Germans come to the local theaters for original language movies (French and English), only arty ones have original language movies in Germany, at least in the neighboring regions.

    13. Re:Correlation, Causation by rioki · · Score: 1

      Oh yea... and there are historic reasons... There used to be a time where you did not like to associate with the Germans. I wonder what they did wrong to deserve this... ;-)

  3. Trillingual kids show more adeptability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Meanwhile in the world where captain obvious resides, where people become more creative if they use their brain more often....

  4. Cause or Effect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Children better at one thing are better at another!

  5. Some people think bilingualism causes confusion? by the_humeister · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Who the hell thinks this? I grew up in a bilingual household and then took Spanish in high school, so I'm semi-trilingual. Childhood is the best time to learn a new language since children can still hear the differences between phonemes that aren't present in the main society's language.

  6. Studies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Perhaps it's just the fact that children that have the opportunity to become bilingual are exposed to a greater variety of situations and therefore can adapt to situations requiring 'creative' thinking.

    Obligitory: Think of the children!

    1. Re:Studies... by grcumb · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's just the fact that children that have the opportunity to become bilingual are exposed to a greater variety of situations and therefore can adapt to situations requiring 'creative' thinking.

      Based on my own experience, I suspect the issue is actually that learning new languages exposes you to significantly different patterns of thought. Language really does affect how you conceive of ideas as well as how you express them. I've lived in multilingual environments for pretty much all of my life, and I've often been in situations where people switch from one language to another -sometimes even in mid-sentence- simply because an idea is easier to express in a different language. I've seen this behaviour in Europe, Québec, the South Pacific, Asia and Africa, so I'm inclined to think this phenomenon is universal.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    2. Re:Studies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      • bookshelf, cupboard, wardrobe, fridge
      • boekenkast, kast, klerenkast, koelkast

      I think it has something to do with filling up gaps in your semantic network that are left open in some languages.

  7. Break out the Rosetta Stone by metalmaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You dont even have to live in a multicultural community. Start early enough and the kid will learn the second language just as easy as they'll pick up on English

    1. Re:Break out the Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You dont even have to live in a multicultural community. Start early enough and the kid will learn the second language just as easy as they'll pick up on English

      But English is my 2nd language ... hmm you are right, my 2nd language were as easy to pick up as my 2nd language

    2. Re:Break out the Rosetta Stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is true.. my son and niece (he's 2.5, she's about to turn 3) both watch Dora and Diego or whatever those two shows are when they are at their grandparents during the day. Both are picking up on it what I consider very well for only learning off of a TV show.

  8. Diversity in knowlege is pretty usefull by maxbash · · Score: 0

    Knowing other ways to communicate or approach things is very useful. My boss once questioned my interest in Linux was hindering my abilities in Windows. I pointed out that I was often figured out different approaches to solve a problem when my coworkers got stuck because of my knowledge of Linux. He didn't question my interest in Linux again. I'm sure diversity in doing things instead of single mindedness is nearly always valuable.

    1. Re:Diversity in knowlege is pretty usefull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      linux will never catch on.

    2. Re:Diversity in knowlege is pretty usefull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should learn to construct a sentence in one language before you worry about a second one. You are a pseudo-intellectual cunt.

  9. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Who? Ardent mono-linguals... ;)

    But also children of certain types of immigrants in certain times and places. There's an association with heavily-accented, low-educated sections of the family/community/culture that held them or their parents back. It's a displaced fallacy, the classic painting with too broad a brush, but it's a root of why some carry the idea that bilingualism "causes confusion", or warts, or is just generally 'bad' in some way.

  10. California Public Schools by SageMusings · · Score: 2

    How does the disparity in performance among Hispanic kids factor into this study?

    --
    -- Posted from my parent's basement
    1. Re:California Public Schools by timeOday · · Score: 3, Interesting
      In a word, No. they did not study Hispanic kids in California. The first sentence of the link is:

      A study of primary school pupils who spoke English or Italian- half of whom also spoke Gaelic or Sardinian- found that the bilingual children were significantly more successful in the tasks set for them. The Gaelic-speaking children were, in turn, more successful than the Sardinian speakers.

      Without knowing anything about the demographics of Scotland and Sardinia I couldn't even guess about what other factors might correlate with bilingually there... it might be very different than how many bilingual Americans are recent immigrants, and thus at a disadvantage due to poverty in addition to whatever language barrier exists.

    2. Re:California Public Schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well california is not a good example. Hispanics and blacks in california get the worst education available. Is like someone is trying to keep these people
      dumb.

      How does the disparity in performance among Hispanic kids factor into this study?

    3. Re:California Public Schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try again.

    4. Re:California Public Schools by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      The "bilingual" education in California is not bilingual at all. It merely teaches Spanish. The graduates of the system are as monolingual as any American who took two years of Spanish in high school. They just called it bilingual education in a successful attempt to get people to vote for it.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    5. Re:California Public Schools by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My wife is Hispanic. She grew up in a bilingual home in Chile.

      At one time she held the highest score ever recorded in South America in the Oxford English Competency Exam. After graduating from college at age 17 in Chile she was awarded a 4 year scholarship to study in Europe where she picked up 5 other languages.

      She was then awarded a Fullbright scholarship to come to the US where she obtained a PhD in Medieval English Lit.

      If there is a performance problem with Hispanic kids it's due to poverty, racism and the the horrific US education system which has no concept of how to teach even monolingual students.

    6. Re:California Public Schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's mostly because the Hispanics in California are pretty much the dregs of their native country, and aren't doing much for this one, either. Asian immigrants suffer the same disadvantages, but somehow don't exhibit the same performance problems. Racism, while a convenient whipping boy, has little to do with it. Let me point out that while Mexico and Chile are both Spanish speaking countries, their demographics are wildly different. English is spoken in India, too, but India sure as hell isn't Great Britain.

    7. Re:California Public Schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are racist scum.

    8. Re:California Public Schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That doesn't necessarily mean that he's wrong!

    9. Re:California Public Schools by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Gaelic-speaking people generally live in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland. I'd expect the live out there to be a bit harsher than the national average, what with smaller communities in basically rural settings, higher life expenses (due to costs of goods transport to remote areas) and lower incomes.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re:California Public Schools by TheSeatOfMyPants · · Score: 1

      Except most Hispanic kids lag way behind even if they're in the same good schools. Resources are then reallocated to pay for a higher-cost ESL teacher and handle various associated problems, damaging that school's quality.

      I saw the decline firsthand growing up here. When I was in grade school, my Hispanic classmates/friends had been pushed by their parents to use English and fit in, so they only 1-2 hours per day with one of the few district ESL teachers and were mainstreamed otherwise. Then a flood of immigrants arrived that had no interest in learning English, told their kids how superior their homeland was and promised they'd go back soon. Those kids had to be put into all-day ESL (so 2-3 specially-trained teachers were hired per campus), extra had to be spent to give them pleasure-based reasons to not drop out, then more to handle the rise in gang violence and teen pregnancies.

      That is why Hispanic kids often end up in shitty schools -- educating them and handling related problems costs so fucking much that it drastically drags the school's quality down.

      --
      Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
    11. Re:California Public Schools by TheSeatOfMyPants · · Score: 1

      I had some Hispanic friends as a kid here in California that excelled in school, and a few more when I was in college. However, all of them had parents that demanded they become fluent in English, integrate, and do well in school -- the kids whose parents came here during or after the wave of immigration in the late 80s are the ones having huge problems, as their parents discouraged the use of English or integrating and told them that they'd return to their 'superior' home before long (so they saw little reason to be educated here).

      --
      Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
  11. How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2

    Actually, I can speak, read and write in 7 languages

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by gagol · · Score: 1

      Indeed, I would like to get hands on a wide reaching comparative study involving more languages than two. My guess is that finding people speaking more than 2 languages are not common... and you sir are a real exception.

      Not only you speak 7 languages, you have a 4 digit UID... what an honor.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    2. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by grcumb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, I would like to get hands on a wide reaching comparative study involving more languages than two. My guess is that finding people speaking more than 2 languages are not common... and you sir are a real exception.

      Depends on what part of the world you're from. Papua New Guinea has over 1000 living spoken languages, the Solomon Islands has hundreds. Even Vanuatu, where I live, has over 100 spoken languages. It's perfectly commonplace for a child to be fluent in either English or French (depending on which school they attend), both of their parents' native tongues, and Bislama, the lingua franca here. In the course of any given day, I find myself speaking English and Bislama at the office, French with people of French extraction, and sharing greetings and pleasantries in about fifteen (yes: 15) other languages.

      Nobody blinks an eye, except for those who observe that a lot of unilingual expats never learn even one other language. I suspect the difference is that I grew up in a mixed English/French-speaking community, and picked up my first 'second' language at a very early age.

      I expect that people's facility with multiple languages is what leads to Bislama - a variety of pidgin English - being used so inventively, in spite of being particularly impoverished in terms of grammar and vocabulary.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    3. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Sique · · Score: 1

      But that's not bilingualism as studied in the paper. There they compare children who grow up bilingual with those, who learn only one language before they get to school. If you spoke seven languages before turning seven, it would be more interesting in this case.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    4. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by gagol · · Score: 1

      And the proximity to such a wide variety of languages make it possible to practice them regularly and have a strong incentive to do so. Should I ever visit your country, do you have any recommendation for a good feel of the back country?

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    5. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by grcumb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Should I ever visit your country, do you have any recommendation for a good feel of the back country?

      Here's a primer on how to behave (and what kind of behaviour to expect) in Vanuatu. And these people have the best tour packages I've seen. Feel free to look me up. It's a small place and we all like to welcome visitors.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    6. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

      Before the age of 7 I only knew 4 languages (mainly spoken). I learned 3 more in adulthood, as well as read and write in all the 7 languages.

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    7. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

      Papua New Guinea has over 1000 living spoken languages

       
      Of course
       
      Places like Africa, India, and Papua New Guinea have a lot of spoken languages, but there is _ONE_ big problem - that's all they have, spoken words, no written word, no way to jot down what they say on paper, et cetera

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    8. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, I can speak, read and write in 7 languages

      And with all that creative power at your disposal, the nickname you chose was Taco Cowboy?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    9. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do not underestimate the Taco Cowboy.

    10. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I too can speak, read and write and published papers in three different languages. The more language you know, task shifting skills improve and you can talk to more than three different languages with three different people without any problem. Creativity has increased tremendously, so most make joke about my skills "Know all" and the above study is true.

    11. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my country, almost everyone speaks three languages. And there are tribes where they speak four languages and more.

    12. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's one of the things that the IPA is for. You don't need a written language in order to write, I'm sure it's not as convenient as having a written language, but it allows you to write the sounds anyways.

    13. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In my technical university in Finland (a bi-lingual country) they told us that four languages is the standard when job-hunting today, it's the fifth that is seen as an advantage (allmost there now after working some years in germany and france). At the time it felt a bit heavy, a lot of studying and I spoke 3 fluently.

      Here we start with the native off course, then finnish/swedish at 9years, english at 11 and usually a choice between german and/or french at 14. At lest this was my road, they are changing the system all the time now.

    14. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by papafox_too · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Places like Africa, India, and Papua New Guinea have a lot of spoken languages, but there is _ONE_ big problem - that's all they have, spoken words, no written word, no way to jot down what they say on paper, et cetera

      Total, utter poppycock.

      How can you educate children using a second language? Educators found generations ago that teaching in a language other than the child's first language simply does not work for young children. So, to teach the child, books and other material written in their native language, which requires a written form - an orthography - has to have been developed.

      Here in Australia, two generations of linguist graduate students (from the 1950's onwards) were employed creating written forms of the various Aboriginal languages. They recorded words (dictionaries) and grammar. They wrote down the local tribes children's stories. They translated the standard primary school texts into the local language. All of this is essential to run a primary-level education system. Similar programs have run in PNG, Canada, Central America and Africa over the last fifty years.

    15. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Hentes · · Score: 1

      I met a child with two bilingual parents who was raised to speak four languages. The problem is, even at the age of six she could only speak a few words in any of those languages. Her speech was at the level of a two years old. I think four languages is too much.

    16. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2

      How can you educate children using a second language?

       
      Huh?? Ever since I was a tiny baby people around me were speaking 4 different languages

      I guess I picked up all those 4 languages "naturally"
       
       

      Educators found generations ago that teaching in a language other than the child's first language simply does not work for young children.

       
      [Citation Please !!]
       
      And as I grew up, I started by learning how to read and write the 4 languages that I spoke, and in adulthood, I picked up yet another 3
       
      To me, picking up languages come naturally - it doesn't mean I am the language expert in all the 7 languages that I can speak, read, and write
       
      I picked up the English language in my teens, btw
       

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    17. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by ld+a,b · · Score: 2

      It may be more the fact that her parents were switching randomly, than the number itself. We can have many neuronal paths in parallel but they are organized by context. switch(p){case MOM: l = Japanese; break; case DAD: l = Korean; break; case TEACHER: l = English; break;} is more optimal than if p=(p==MOM)?(p->l==Japanese)?Japanese:Korean:(p==DAD)(p->l==Korean)?Korean:English;.....

      --
      10 little-endian boys went out to dine, a big-endian carp ate one, and then there were -246.
    18. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Harald+Paulsen · · Score: 1

      Even Vanuatu, where I live, has over 100 spoken languages.

      Just out of curiosity (and a slight bit of pedantry :-)), are they languages or dialects?

      How similar are the languages?

      --
      Harald
    19. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This doesn't even make sense. If the couple spoke 4 different languages, how would they communicate?

    20. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you think they had kids?

    21. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Sique · · Score: 1

      So you are quadrolingual in the terms of the paper.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    22. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Indeed, I would like to get hands on a wide reaching comparative study involving more languages than two. My guess is that finding people speaking more than 2 languages are not common... and you sir are a real exception.

      I'd be willing to bet a fair chunk of people in (Continental) Europe and Africa can speak three languages.

    23. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Larryish · · Score: 1

      Taco Cowboy is the pivot man for Commander Taco and Cowboy Neal

    24. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Huh?? Ever since I was a tiny baby people around me were speaking 4 different languages

      I guess I picked up all those 4 languages "naturally"

      That means you have acquired four first languages. "First language" is a matter of how a person acquires a language (acquisition starting in the age of 1-2), not a matter of numerical order.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    25. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm more surprised he speaks 7 languages and doesn't know the word 'multilingual' :P. Yes, I'm just being a tool.

    26. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by GNious · · Score: 2

      Kids of multilingual parents are adversely affected, if the parents do not stick to a single language when communicating with their children.

      Example: I'm effectively bilingual (DK, EN_UK), and made the mistake of using two language with my kids (EE and DK). The children's mother is Estonian, so the outcome is that the kids are crap at Danish, are not good enough at Estonian.
      Meanwhile, the big girl is learning English from me and her mother use of it when we talk - this is becoming an additional language for her, through natural processes.

      So, if you have children, and speak more than 1 language, make sure you choose just 1 to use with your kids directly. You can choose different language than your partner, and you can use a 3rd language between the parents.

    27. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by KingBenny · · Score: 1

      probably quite exceptional , here we got three national languages and people are supposed to speak two (i dont know how exactly but german is official but it doesnt count in schools somehow, not that anything else makes sense), something that should have been replaced a long time ago by native language+english for each side of the country (that way everyone could actually understand the other side) since almost no one really is bilingual when you look at the real world here. The other side is 'them', pretty normal i suppose

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
    28. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      It means "The Mighty Warrior Who Crushes the Skulls of His Enemies" in one of those seven languages, you insensitive clod!

    29. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Indeed, I would like to get hands on a wide reaching comparative study involving more languages than two. My guess is that finding people speaking more than 2 languages are not common... and you sir are a real exception.

      Depends on what part of the world you're from. Papua New Guinea has over 1000 living spoken languages, the Solomon Islands has hundreds. Even Vanuatu, where I live, has over 100 spoken languages. It's perfectly commonplace for a child to be fluent in either English or French (depending on which school they attend), both of their parents' native tongues, and Bislama, the lingua franca here. In the course of any given day, I find myself speaking English and Bislama at the office, French with people of French extraction, and sharing greetings and pleasantries in about fifteen (yes: 15) other languages.

      Nobody blinks an eye, except for those who observe that a lot of unilingual expats never learn even one other language. I suspect the difference is that I grew up in a mixed English/French-speaking community, and picked up my first 'second' language at a very early age.

      I expect that people's facility with multiple languages is what leads to Bislama - a variety of pidgin English - being used so inventively, in spite of being particularly impoverished in terms of grammar and vocabulary.

      Come to Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

      Bilingualism English/French is a requirement in public / highschools. Parochial schools or private schools offer three languages.
      My own self, I am fluent in English, began to learn french at age 40, and I picked up Spanish from my wife's conversations with her family. I read/write French and read/speak a smattering of Spanish. I can hold a conversation.

      I have three adults, two sons and a daughter and three grandchildren.

      One of my sons has as languages, Music, English, French, Spanish, Portugese, and Russian. He read-writes them all. He (MBA) knows various Spanish accents, having lived 10 years in Florida. Knowing English, French, and Spanish, and a great personality due to multilingualism and from multiculturalism allowed him to be top salesrep in Florida.
      My other son is trilingual as well, with English, French and some Polish (from girlfriend). He has a bachelor degree in finance.
      My daughter teaches Autistic children, is a psychologist, and is fluent in English, French and Spanish.

      My grandkids (ages 9,8,6) are better in French than English, (They started kindergarten with full French immersion until grade 4, after which they get half days in each language). Science, gym, and spelling is given in both.) High school will be predominantly in English.

      They also understand Spanish.

      Yes, in Quebec, we believe in multi-culturism, with a concentration in French.

      Are we brighter? I do not think we are, but our minds are conditioned or trained to think creatively. Our vocabularies are richer than most uni-lingual peoples. We think in two or three languages at a time.

      By the way, Music is a language. My son at age 4 was able to identify cords and play piano. Today his hobby is composing songs and lyrics.

      As for me, I have a degree in mathematics and physics. I did have very high marks in university.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    30. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by nobodie · · Score: 1

      how is that a problem... for the speakers?

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    31. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Places like Africa, India, and Papua New Guinea have a lot of spoken languages, but there is _ONE_ big problem - that's all they have, spoken words, no written word, no way to jot down what they say on paper, et cetera

      Total, utter poppycock.

      How can you educate children using a second language? Educators found generations ago that teaching in a language other than the child's first language simply does not work for young children. So, to teach the child, books and other material written in their native language, which requires a written form - an orthography - has to have been developed.

      Here in Australia, two generations of linguist graduate students (from the 1950's onwards) were employed creating written forms of the various Aboriginal languages. They recorded words (dictionaries) and grammar. They wrote down the local tribes children's stories. They translated the standard primary school texts into the local language. All of this is essential to run a primary-level education system. Similar programs have run in PNG, Canada, Central America and Africa over the last fifty years.

      I guess the last 40 years of bilingualism in Quebec Canada has failed. Tell that to my kids and grandkids who can read/write/speak in both English and French. My family can get by in Spanish, though Spanish is not taught in the schools. Perhaps bilingualism is successful in that conversation is done in either language. If I meet a French speaking person, I switch to French, and he meets an English speaking person he switches to English. In the end we converse in beautiful friendly ways.

        In Montreal, some English words are displaced by French ones and vice versa. Computer terms in French generally use the English or literal translation of English words.
      byte for octet. disk dure for disque rigide. megabyte for megaoctet. email for courriel. Depanneur for the local convenience shop. Both local English and French are evolving

      I beg to differ. with the utter popycock statement. Bilingualism works

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    32. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by nobodie · · Score: 1

      In our family I use English with everyone, my wife uses Dutch with everyone, our daughters use either English Dutch Chinese or Thai, while our son uses English with me, dutch with his mom and Chinese with the Aiyi and teachers and friends

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    33. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by rioki · · Score: 1

      Totally agree (trilingual here). Multilingualism gives you a total different handling of languages. I speak German, French and English, at least in the Latin (eg. Italian, Spanish) and Germanic (eg. Dutch) language realm I can pick up languages very easily. But I must also admit the GGP says, it makes no sense to try to teach 6 yo in a different language.

    34. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      My daughter and son-in-law chose to put their kids into a school which had a bilingual program (French immersion until grade 4, and then English with French). The result has been fantastic. They read/write/speak these two languages beautifully. Are they bright kids? They are! I would say they are more creative than being genius bright. I attribute that to multi-culturism.

      In their classes are Whites, Blacks from Africa and from Latin America, Asians, Chinese, Latinos (Chile, Argentina, Mexico), and Russians. We are only missing autochtones to round it up. A true melting pot. The school holds a food day every 6 weeks, where the specialties from around the world. are laid out for sampling.
      They have science projects and music projects where songs from each country are learned.

      What is great is that there is no racism. We see this because my grandkids have sleep-over guests (overnight classmates) from the mentioned groups.
       

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  12. no shit sherlock... by tryptogryphic · · Score: 1

    And the results of this study are a surprise...why? Of course children who have the discipline, tenacity and motivation to learn and switch between two languages are going to be better at most things...language is a multifaceted mental effort, one of the highest degree...if they can learn and master two languages its should be a no-brainer they can do most other things better as well.

    I guess some people need science to validate things before they actually agree / approve.

    1. Re:no shit sherlock... by grcumb · · Score: 3, Informative

      And the results of this study are a surprise...why? Of course children who have the discipline, tenacity and motivation to learn and switch between two languages are going to be better at most things...language is a multifaceted mental effort, one of the highest degree...if they can learn and master two languages its should be a no-brainer they can do most other things better as well.

      I think you're missing the point. In many, many parts of the world, people learn two or three languages before they even start school. In East Africa, you learn your parents' language and ki-Swahili; in Indonesia and Malaysia, it's parental language(s) plus Bahasa and sometimes Arabic; in the Philippines, it's parental language(s) plus Tagalog plus English. The list goes on. It's simply taken for granted. I don't think the study is saying that learning language makes you smarter per se; it's saying that certain kinds of problems are easier for children who use more than one language on a regular basis.

      If I've read it right, this is on the level of stating that people who grow up in mountainous areas with few vehicles generally show greater leg strength across the board. It's not suggesting that there aren't stronger and weaker children within that sample. I personally know some functionally illiterate people who can speak 4-6 languages fluently. They're not special; they're just a product of the environment they grew up in.

      ... It is disappointing, however, to see how unimaginative unilingual people can sometimes be. Maybe it's perceptual bias on my part, but I feel that I encounter more zero-sum, black/white logic from unilingual people than from multilingual people.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    2. Re:no shit sherlock... by sulimma · · Score: 2

      The study is about kids who grow up in housholds where the parents speak different languages.

      Not about kids who are taught a second language on purpose by a teacher. No discipline involved.

  13. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by canadiannomad · · Score: 3, Funny

    Je ne sais pas que tipo de confusión ce puede causar.......

    (It's a joke -- don't mod me down for using alternate languages...)

    --
    Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
  14. Selection bias. by outsider007 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Those kids who spoke Gaelic may have had something else in common, perhaps a propensity toward alcoholism. Shall we link that to bilingualism as well?

    --
    If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
    1. Re:Selection bias. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those kids who spoke Gaelic may have had something else in common, perhaps a propensity toward alcoholism. Shall we link that to bilingualism as well?

      The 19th century called. It wants its stereotypes back. What's next? Saying Catholics and non-Anglo people can never be "real Americans?"

  15. Just a thought by randumuser · · Score: 1

    I speak English, Hebrew, Arabic, Spanish and Italian so I have a lot of friends from very different backgrounds, at least that's why I'd like to think. Here's how I categorize my friends: *Cool, funny, creative, and usually atheist friends with whom I just happen to click, the type of friends that gets the slightest of references from a movie, a TV show, pop-culture or even a sitcom: Most speak 2-3 languages. * Other friends, they are spectacularly average at everything most of the time and I feel like I have superpowers when I'm around them: they all speak one language, Hebrew, and most were terrible English speakers. If I am to come up with a more specific claim I'd say people I know who don't know English well are less intelligent that those who do.

  16. Now, time to shove it down their throats by ebunga · · Score: 2

    Since it's for their own good, time to shove fourteen languages down the their throats in forced mandatory education. Stop concentrating on math and science, start concentrating on languages. Veuillez considérer le bien-être des enfants.

    1. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or to do that when kids can't even communicate well in their own native language English...

      copyright -> copywrite, brake -> brake, then than, effect -> affect
      for -> 4, to ->2 and other text-speak crap

    2. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by grcumb · · Score: 0

      Since it's for their own good, time to shove fourteen languages down the their throats in forced mandatory education. Stop concentrating on math and science, start concentrating on languages. Veuillez considérer le bien-être des enfants.

      Qu'est-ce qui te fais penser que l'algèbre n'est pas une langue?

      (TR: What makes you think Algebra isn't a language?)

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    3. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spelling != language.

    4. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Spelling != language.

      que?

    5. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Precisely, at the early stages of language learning the most efficient way of looking at sentence structure is like you would with algebra. There are patterns which come up time and time again and you have a set of rules about how you can manipulate it.

      Math itself is merely a language for talking about models and solving problems. It has nouns, verbs, adjectives and the like. It's also the only more or less truly universal language in the world. In it's most basic form it's understand by basically everybody. And even at higher levels there are people in every nation that know it.

    6. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Since it's for their own good, time to shove fourteen languages down the their throats in forced mandatory education. Stop concentrating on math and science, start concentrating on languages. Veuillez considérer le bien-être des enfants.

      Fourteen no, three yes. I'm American living in France so my son speaks both languages very well. Anticipating the continuing growth of China in the world I've encouraged (read bribed) him to take Mandarin lessons as well.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    7. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by Meumeu · · Score: 1

      Since it's for their own good, time to shove fourteen languages down the their throats in forced mandatory education. Stop concentrating on math and science, start concentrating on languages. Veuillez considérer le bien-être des enfants.

      Qu'est-ce qui te fait penser que l'algèbre n'est pas une langue?

      (TR: What makes you think Algebra isn't a language?)

      FTFY

    8. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by redneckmother · · Score: 1

      Spelling != language.

      que?

      No, "queue". After all, this is Slashdot! :-) (yo hablo espanol solimente un pocito, and I don't write it well, either)

    9. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by doesnothingwell · · Score: 1

      Stop concentrating on math and science

      Math and science are another language, and most people do not understand it. I'm in a room with two other people watching tv, a question from a game show on tv is about coulombs, seconds, and wire. The geek in the room knows the language, the straights not so much.

      --
      They can have my command prompt when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
    10. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Our actual experience is that childen who are multi-lingual do better than uni-lingual childen at all subjects, math included.
      And no, 14 languages is an exaggeration. Two languages is the norm, with the occasional third spoken between parents and grandparents, and thus understood by the grandchildren.

      Examples in Quebec. English and French in public and high schools, and Italian or Spanish at home as a third language.
      I watch TV stations that broadcast in English, French and Spanish.

      Love the trilingualism. I can joke in three languages. Some thing I am very proud of.
       

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    11. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by mikaere · · Score: 1

      I call bullshit on bi-lingualism means you have to stop concentrating on maths and science. This kind of attitude is typical of the ignorant. Read my post and you might learn something.

      Actually, New Zealand leads the world in bi-lingual education, and my kids are have been through this kind of education, and I served on the Board of Trustees for a primary school that has 3 bilingual units (French/English, Samoan/English, Maori/English).

      Bi-lingualism has a specific structure that results in better across-the-board outcomes. Namely, you teach the kids in the non-English language for the first three years of their education, then you teach the kids English, attaining about 80% of instruction in the non-English language. The curriculum still covers the same topics (maths, science, social sciences etc), so the kids still learn the those topics.

      What we have found, via research driven by the University of Auckland and others, is that kids who complete a bi-lingual programme are, at years 7 and 8, better than their counterparts at English, maths and science. i.e. it really does improve educational outcomes, better than being on a mono-lingual programme.

      --
      It's good luck to be superstitious
    12. Re:Now, time to shove it down their throats by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Spelling != language.

      que?

      No, "queue". After all, this is Slashdot! :-) (yo hablo espanol solimente un pocito, and I don't write it well, either)

      Not only that, but the message editor is in cahoots. I punctuated properly, but when I posted it, the results were missing the leading inverted question mark!

  17. left wing media by epyT-R · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    so a university, probably a 'progressive' organization, manipulates stats to praise some aspect of 'multiculturalism' for an obvious profit motive. what a shock. perhaps it's just that those who can learn languages quickly are simply smarter people.

    1. Re:left wing media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't the first time I've heard this. I remember years ago (talking 10+) research had shown bi-lingual people tended to be "smarter" and more successful

    2. Re:left wing media by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      that doesn't mean learning multiple languages increases intelligence.

    3. Re:left wing media by xaxa · · Score: 1

      so a university, probably a 'progressive' organization, manipulates stats to praise some aspect of 'multiculturalism' for an obvious profit motive. what a shock. perhaps it's just that those who can learn languages quickly are simply smarter people.

      In case you didn't read the article before your reactionary flamebait comment, notice the study was done in Scotland with Scottish children (some speak Gaelic), and in Sardinia with Sardinian children (some speak Sardinian). Hardly multicultural.

    4. Re:left wing media by SeanDS · · Score: 1

      Scottish universities are public organisations anyway, so the 'profit motive' you mention is quite irrelevant, especially if you contrast it to top/elite universities around the world. Scottish unversities earn money through endowments from the government's research councils and grants from government and private organisations to conduct research in specific areas. This is then used for facilities, salaries, etc.

      Research themes are chosen by academics, as long as they fit the remit of the particular source of funding. Sometimes more specific areas of research are chosen by a private organisation which provides funding for it. I'd like to think it is hardly ever driven by profit motive. Besides, how could such a study benefit financially? They've just, in the spirit of science, told the world their findings and published their results.

  18. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think they're just plain jealous.

  19. Eye Caramba!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just think if Bart didn't know a few words of Spanish how stupid he would be.

  20. Old cliche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A person who speaks three languages is trilingual; a person who speaks two languages is bilingual; a person who speaks one language is — American.

  21. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by puto · · Score: 1

    My bio dad is Colombian, he hit the road when I was 2, but I lived in Colombia for 8 years on and off, and my spanish is better than most american latinos, punctuation, grammar, abstract concepts, and technical. I took spanish in high school as well, but it no way prepared me to dumped into the ass end of Latino America. I started speaking spanish when I was 20, and at 42 I will bet dollars to donuts I will outclass people who grew up in latino households in the states.

    --
    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
  22. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    The curious thing is I read that perfectly, Spanish, French and English being three of the six languages I am fluent in. But I could venture that the latin-based languages like Italian and Portugese hardly count for much because if you know any two of them, you are pretty well equipped to handle yourself in any of the others. I was quite surprised however at how much spoken Romanian I can understand, although I am nowhere near fluent in that language.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  23. which language? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Assuming they are talking about English as main language, is the second language Spanish or French? Or harder language like Japanese or German? German and Japanese have different sentence structure, where as Spanish and French your mostly just learning words and not grammar.. Do these kids often use the second language? Maybe BECAUSE they are creative, they want to learn a second language.

    Another pointless study.

    1. Re:which language? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. Someone should clearly put you on the NSF review committee because you are so adept at looking past all the complex variables and getting to the real point: you don’t agree. Impressive.

  24. Research seems to support you in this by Krishnoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm sure diversity in doing things instead of single mindedness is nearly always valuable.

    Lera Boroditsky's research has come up with results that challenge some basic assumptions in linguistics. One such finding is that rather than language simply expressing thought processes, it shapes mental models of the world.

    1. Re:Research seems to support you in this by Fnordulicious · · Score: 1

      What ‘basic assumptions’ are you referring to? That particular claim is at least as old as Grandpa Sapir, if not much older. I am completely unaware of any theories that depend on the negation of that as an assumption. Indeed, in much of linguistic theory today the rest of the mind is considered to be irrelevant or at least abstracted away from so that it doesn’t complicate the (already fiendishly complicated) models. If you’re referring to things like the various cognitive grammar theories, then you’ve missed the point. Those instead take the assumption that generalized mental capacity can be exapted for grammatical processes (thus obviating the need for a specialized universal grammar faculty), not the other way around.

  25. Guesswork on my part, but by Penurious+Penguin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since much of our thinking is actually affected by language, and language structures vary sometimes greatly (e.g. Chinese vs English), integrating an additional language into a mind seems highly likely to expand general mental capacity. Perspective is perhaps an underrated element. I am no linguist, but as I understand, a language such as English suffers a lot of nouns. Since most 'things' are actually not nouns, but motions in space/time, a language centered more around the verb may offer advantages. I find Alfred Korzybski's E-Prime quite intriguing. I think one interesting example might be the Chinese word for "fist" -- which i think in Cantonese is something like (pinyin) quan? -- , a noun in English, but an action or verb in Chinese. Maybe I am going a bit far with this, but it would seem to me that any form of exercise and added pliability would offer more capacity for mental tasks. But of course, not in all matters, i.e. mathematics.

    I remember taking introductory German as a teenager and thinking differently because of it. While it didn't have me asking random strangers for their papers or hording bratwursts, I did feel more capable and confident because of it. Though I suppose this may be true of any substantial exercise, whether linguistic or otherwise.

    --
    Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
  26. Uhhhhm, no. by Kimomaru · · Score: 1, Funny

    I speak three languages and I'm about as creative as a dialtone. This finding is bogus - Canadians are billingual, why don't they have a space program?

    1. Re:Uhhhhm, no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well we do have that robotic arm (Canadarm) which was a big deal in the 80s and is still used. And ya, they dedicate entire lesson plans in schools bragging about it :)

      Creativity takes many forms other than engineering. Ever notice how many comedians are from Canada?

    2. Re:Uhhhhm, no. by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Anecdotal evidence is not data.

    3. Re:Uhhhhm, no. by Kimomaru · · Score: 1

      Strong point. Not sure if producing comedians is on the same level as a space program or Nobel prize, but that Mike Myers is crazy funny.

    4. Re:Uhhhhm, no. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Canada is bilingual, but Canadians themselves, not so much.

  27. Whodathunkit? by rmdingler · · Score: 2

    Exercising the brain makes it work better.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  28. Programming languages by zzyzyx · · Score: 1

    Could we speculate about whether the same effect could be observed with computer languages ? I think a lot of people would agree that studying another computer language, especially if it has differing base paradigms (functional, OO, procedural, dynamic, static, etc.) would give them new hindsights when they came back to their "main" language.

    1. Re:Programming languages by Spacejock · · Score: 1

      I've always said computer programming should be moved to the Arts faculty in universities. Getting kids to study the highest-level math when most computer programming involves syntax and logic is insane. English is my first language but I'm fluent in Spanish after growing up there, and I also have enough French get by. I did an arts degree at uni in the 80's, but in the late 90's I went back and got a computing degree as well. I don't remember a whole lot of math usage during my studies, and I acheived an 80-85% average over the three years. (I flunked Math in high school, btw, which is how I ended up doing an Arts degree in the first place.)

  29. ah, but WHICH language? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article: "The Gaelic-speaking children were, in turn, more successful than the Sardinian speakers." (these being the tri-lingual ones; everyone in the study knew English and Italian)

    Gaelic helps you more than Sardinian. I wonder if Gaelic alone (not studied) also beats the English-Italian combo. Gaelic makes you smart, or Sardinian makes you dumb.

    Considering just single languages, might some be better for you mind than others? Might this help some countries get ahead while hurting others? Perhaps Japanese is better for you than Haitian. There could be numerous countries that would benefit from complete language replacement.

    1. Re:ah, but WHICH language? by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Sardinian and Italian are from the same language family - Romance, i.e. derived from Latin. The Scottish language is Celtic and quite distinct from 'Germanic' English.

      So possibly the dissimilarity of the languages makes a difference...

  30. Intelligence by frank249 · · Score: 1

    I found something similar when I was doing my psychology thesis in 1990. I found that my bilingual participants, when compared to uni-lingual participants, had a statistically significant difference in their high school leaving grades, first year university grades and on a test of general mental ability (g). At the time I thought it made sense as the same abilities you use to learn a second language (memory, language skills, cognition) are also measures that an individual needs to learn academic subjects. I did not look at creativity but problem solving is a related ability and is considered a component of g. I think Schmidt and Hunter were right when they said every measure of success is related to g.

    --

    Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.

  31. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... I'm semi-trilingual.

    You're mono-and-a-half-lingual?

  32. Sounds like the liberal media... by bennomatic · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...trying to brainwash us into teaching our kids languages other than American!

    --
    The CB App. What's your 20?
    1. Re:Sounds like the liberal media... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...trying to brainwash us into teaching our kids languages other than American!

      Yeah, if speaking American was good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for us!

    2. Re:Sounds like the liberal media... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no such language as 'American'!

  33. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who the hell thinks this?

    Monolingual zealots (typically of the borderline racist kind). Seriously, YMMV, but the only type of people I've ever seen making this claim are the type not typically happy with people speaking a foreign language around them. I don't understand what they are talking about, so they must be talking about me!!!". It feels like a long time ago, the early 90's when you could still see the bigotry the hatred. It was regular topic in the news, of employers firing their employees because they were talking Spanish or Vietnamese or Creole, or f* Klingon in the parking lot on the way home or during lunch (not on the clock, mind you, not on the clock.)

    Now, the rhetoric has shifted from language to immigration status, and to a somewhat lesser degree to Islamic fundamentalism. The later two are based real issues - illegal immigration and Islamic terrorism. However, a significant number of people who bring these issues up do so to rationalize Anti-Hispanic or Islamophobic sentiments, regardless of their connections (or lack thereof) with illegal immigration or Islamic terrorism.

    It is a generalization, I know, to say these claims are only made by people uncomfortable with foreign-language speakers. But it has been a generalization that holds true in my experience. YMMV obviously.

  34. Californinglish by kerneloops · · Score: 2

    I have two tri-lingual kids, with Chinese and Finnish spoken at home, and 'Mmerican English at school. I think the American school system is negating any advantage they may have had. I kid people! It's the Californinglish that's destroying their chances :)

    1. Re:Californinglish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whatever screwed up dialect of a language your kids are exposed to is not as much of an issue. The point is the process, not the language.

    2. Re:Californinglish by kerneloops · · Score: 1

      I am, of course, kidding.

    3. Re:Californinglish by legojenn · · Score: 1

      As long as they don't talk like the characters in SNL's 'the Californians' recurring skit, then they'll be fine.

      --
      I make a reasonable middle-class wage by going to work and not spamming blogs with scams.
  35. I speak fluent gibberish... by JackAxe · · Score: 1

    Does that count as bilingual?

    1. Re:I speak fluent gibberish... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would if it was authentic frontier gibberish. Otherwise, you're just a sidewindin' bushwhackin' hornswagglin' cracker croaker.

      On the other hand, if you speak Jive...

      Jiveman1: Sheeeet, man, that honkey mus' be messin' my old lady
      got to be runnin' col' upsihd down his head!
      Subtitle: GOLLY, THAT WHITE FELLOW SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM MY WIFE
      OR I WILL PUNCH HIM.
      Jiveman2: Hey Holm, I can dig it! You know he ain't gonna lay no
      mo' big rap upon you man!
      Subtitle: YES, HE IS WRONG FOR DOING THAT.
      Jiveman1: I say hey sky, s'other say I won say I pray to J I get
      the same ol' same ol.
      Subtitle: I KNEW A MAN IN A SIMILAR PREDICAMENT, AND HE ENDED UP
      BEING SORRY.
      Jiveman2: Knock yourself a pro slick. Gray matter back got
      perform' us' down I take TCBin, man'.
      Subtitle: DON'T BE NAIVE ARTHUR. EACH OF US FACES A CLEAR MORAL
      CHOICE.
      Jiveman1: You know wha' they say: See a broad to get that bodiac
      lay'er down an' smack 'em yack 'em.
      Subtitle: EARLY TO BED, EARLY TO RISE, MAKES A MAN HEALTHY,
      WEALTHY AND WISE.
      Together: Col' got to be! Yo!
      Subtitle: HOW TRUE!
      Together: Sheeeeeeet!
      Subtitle: GOLLY.

  36. Speaking sardinian? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What are they, Aquaman?

  37. Recycled news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is *very* old news, sorry.

  38. What they really need is formal grammar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When a kid can express their statement in Extended Backus-Naur Form, then they really understand it.

  39. Creative = better at a "set of tasks?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, they didn't really say creative, or at least that wasn't the main point. They said "better at completing a set of tasks." How that translates to creativity was left as a bit of a mystery, it wasn't really well explained in the article.

  40. It's partly true by Solandri · · Score: 2

    Same with typing. If you take qwerty typists and teach them Dvorak, their qwerty typing speed decreases a bit.

    But yeah, I'm bilingual, semi-trilingual as well, and the confusion is very minor. Most of the time you can "switch gears" between the languages without problem (cross-language homophones and the occasional grammatical equivalent can cause a little confusion). But the benefits (allows you to see things missing in the language which mono-linguists take for granted, forces you to recognize there's more than one way to think about things) far outweigh the drawbacks.

  41. Native language feedback by bidule · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seeing how the "same" word translate differently in another language helps to fix in your mind the differences between:
    - capitol / capital
    - principle / principal
    - affect / effect
    - its et al
    - theirs et al

    I could go on, but these silly mistakes mostly happen to speakers ignorant of their own native language. Bilingualism kills that ignorance.

    --
    ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
    1. Re:Native language feedback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really, most multilingual folks don't use one language to think about another. It just takes too much time every time you want to say something. My knowledge in German changed some of my phrasing, but it did sod all for spelling because I don't use German spelling rules to spell in English. Same is proving to be the case for Chinese, learning that is having no impact whatsoever on the mistakes I make in English.

      This is one of those ideas that seems like a good idea as long as you don't bother to think about it. I suppose it could be true for people that are marginally proficient and who translate in their head, but for people that are serious about it, I've never seen any evidence that it worked.

    2. Re:Native language feedback by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Not really, most multilingual folks don't use one language to think about another. It just takes too much time every time you want to say something.

      As another bilingual person, I disagree. You don't think about it every time you say something, of course, but you only need to think about it once - and you definitely will, at the stage where you still speak foreign language by mentally translating it back & forth to your native one - and then it sticks.

    3. Re:Native language feedback by bidule · · Score: 1

      As another bilingual person, I disagree. You don't think about it every time you say something, of course, but you only need to think about it once - and you definitely will, at the stage where you still speak foreign language by mentally translating it back & forth to your native one - and then it sticks.

      Bingo.

      You need to refine the concept and divide an idea/word into its different idea/translations. Once you are fluent, you are already done. For instance, it is very hard to mistakenly come up with "accept -> außer" or "accept -> eccetto" or "accept -> nozoku". Therefore, once you've refined that concept you'll never use "accept" instead of "except".

      So, let me add:
      - accept / except

      --
      ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
  42. I know.. by WhackAttack · · Score: 1

    I know C++ and English...does this count as bilingual?! :D

    1. Re:I know.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. C++ is simply a dialect of English.

  43. Ch 4 News Team by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Looks like we got ourselves a bi-lingual bloodbath here." was the first thing that popped into my mind.

  44. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who the hell thinks this?

    The same stupid tea-party type trash who think a multi-racial child will be "confused" about who he/she is. You know. Morons.

  45. While I think that is a good skill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I also think that a kid that is taught two languages generally would have more involved parents to begin with which would go a long ways.

  46. Portal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, the only thing I can say right now is that my bilingual son (Chinese / French) started solving Portal then Portal 2 problems by himself at around 2 years old.
    No idea if it's common, but I'm proud anyway ;)

  47. yeah everyone else knows this already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    duh...stupid north americans - except quebec

  48. Sorry folks! Too late! by zapyon · · Score: 1

    Doesn't work if you start learning your 2nd language now. Has to be done in early childhood because then, and only then regions of your brain are used differently to make room for the 2nd language in a different way than if you learn the 2nd language later. This improves future learning capacities for the 3rd, 4th, ... nth language, and seemingly not only the languages. ... So here, you really have something to blame your parents for! ;-)

    Still, learning a new language is always a good thing ... and fun. Best done with an attractive teacher of the opposite (or, if you are so inclined, same) sex. So: have fun!

    --
    I like my spaghetti with source.
  49. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Je ne sais pas que tipo de confusión ce puede causar.......

    (It's a joke -- don't mod me down for using alternate languages...)

    I had to reread that before I noticed that the language changed in mid-sentence.

    What, you mean not everyone speaks French, Spanish, Portuguese and English? Everyone I knew growing up did!

  50. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by dj245 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Who the hell thinks this?

    Monolingual zealots (typically of the borderline racist kind). Seriously, YMMV, but the only type of people I've ever seen making this claim are the type not typically happy with people speaking a foreign language around them. I don't understand what they are talking about, so they must be talking about me!!!". It feels like a long time ago, the early 90's when you could still see the bigotry the hatred. It was regular topic in the news, of employers firing their employees because they were talking Spanish or Vietnamese or Creole, or f* Klingon in the parking lot on the way home or during lunch (not on the clock, mind you, not on the clock.)

    Now, the rhetoric has shifted from language to immigration status, and to a somewhat lesser degree to Islamic fundamentalism. The later two are based real issues - illegal immigration and Islamic terrorism. However, a significant number of people who bring these issues up do so to rationalize Anti-Hispanic or Islamophobic sentiments, regardless of their connections (or lack thereof) with illegal immigration or Islamic terrorism.

    It is a generalization, I know, to say these claims are only made by people uncomfortable with foreign-language speakers. But it has been a generalization that holds true in my experience. YMMV obviously.

    I don't think you need to be any kind of zealot to think that multiple languages confuses a child. My wife's first language is not English. Many of her immigrant friends have children who are learning to speak English and another language. They are slower at first. Sometimes they are confused about who speaks what language. Many times one of their children has come up to me and started babbling in a language I don't understand. Since small children are basically psychopaths (don't know right from wrong) they can't tell who understands or not. Over the long term they catch up, but if you were trying bilingual children without *needing* to, or if both parents spoke only one language, it would be pretty easy to just say "it confuses the children" and give up. My own son is only 4 months so he isn't saying much of anything, but based on the experience of our friends, he will be a little slower than his single-language peers at first.

    There is a pretty good argument in the US that you don't need more than one language. I can get in my car, drive 12 hours, stop for the night, drive for 12 hours the next day, stop for the night again and drive for 12 hours on a third day. I live in the middle of the country, but a 36 hour drive would only put me in California somewhere. The US is VAST and monolingual. There are English "dialects" but you can generally understand people without any problem. I know of no other country on the planet where this is the case except the US. If I lived as an expat (I'm trying to do this, but my company won't cooperate) I would try to learn the local language, but for now it would be a huge time sink for no reward.

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  51. What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kids who eat healthier become healthier adults
    Or better even
    Feed a kid and they will grow

  52. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, it's a myth, but there does tend to be a bit of delay in terms of production of language, but by the time the kids are ready for elementary school they're typically more than ready to produce in at least one of the languages. It's not something that I'll worry about if I ever have kids.

    Confusion is something which seems reasonable, but in practice it's not something which is seen very often. At least not in children that are of at least normal intelligence and that don't have learning disorders.

  53. Measuring creativity? by DL117 · · Score: 1

    How exactly do you go about scientifically and objectively measuring creativity? If you think you're doing it right, you're doing it wrong.

  54. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by rHBa · · Score: 1

    Quelle est cette confusion dont vous parlez? Je viens d'utiliser Google Translate...

  55. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

    ...so I'm semi-trilingual...

    You speak one and a half languages? :-)

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  56. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Okay, I didn't realize those were multiple languages until *after* I had already understood the whole sentence.

  57. Indians will consider this trivial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For any school child studying in English medium schools from Western, Southern and Eastern states of India, they will be learning different languages:

    English - first language
    Marathi /Kannada /Malayalam /Tamil /Telungu /Oriya /Bengali, etc... - second language
    Hindi - compulsory third language.

    Yes, Hindi is uninterestingly pushed down these children's throats and is a big pain in the mouth for children who deal with it.

  58. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by AncientPC · · Score: 1

    My wife's research is in this field (linguistic development in children), mostly doing case studies on non-Japanese children learning in Japan.

    These kids are typically from lower income households with busy parents. Rather than gaining full mastery of one language, many only develop partial mastery in two languages. This partial mastery negatively impacts their scores in testing as they have more difficulty expressing certain high level concepts in either language.

    Now, obviously does not apply to everyone. I also grew up in a bilingual household and picked up two more languages later on in life. While bilingualism is achievable, it requires more resources and time that may not be available to everyone.

    The main argument of my wife's research is that if a child does not have a strong foundation in at least one language, he/she will have difficulty learning more advanced concepts than children who have single language mastery.

    For example, if you only have a basic understanding of C and Lisp it may be difficult implementing advanced data structures or algorithms if you don't know about pointers or monads.

  59. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by mce · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Writing as a Belgian and thus intimately familiar with language wars: Over here the people who argue against multilingual education are indeed most often the "monolingual zealot (typically of the borderline racist kind)" type. Since they don't want to be labeled as such, they will typically use the "it confuses the child" argument, ideally using a young child that uses two languages in a single sentence as evidence (as if uni-lingual young children never make grammar mistakes). The "it's confusing" claim has the additional benefit that it can be used to convince non-racists who don't know any better. Never mind that the whole argument has been scientifically disproved a ton of times. Never mind even that every single multilingual child/adult walking the place is a perfect example that no harm was done. (Well, of course from the point of view of the zealots, harm was done. But I refuse make them my to reference point.)

  60. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

    Have you ever heard of Russia or Canada?

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  61. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

    Or Australia?

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  62. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

    Or Brazil?

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  63. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

    Or Chile?

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  64. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

    Or Argentina?

    Hint: Google Maps can help you determine which countries allow minimum overland journey times of 36 hours or greater.

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  65. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Amiga+Trombone · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised you didn't get China in there, given that Mandarin has more speakers than any other language.

  66. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... mostly doing case studies on non-Japanese children learning in Japan.

    Case studies? That implies a small sample - a non-statistically significant sample. Meaning her findings won't be relevant until many more studies in many more cultures with many more languages are done.

    Until then, her studies are something to spawn theories but to come to the conclusion that " Rather than gaining full mastery of one language, many only develop partial mastery in two languages." is premature, at least.

  67. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2

    I don't think you need to be any kind of zealot to think that multiple languages confuses a child. My wife's first language is not English. Many of her immigrant friends have children who are learning to speak English and another language. They are slower at first.

    Slower with respect to what? With what objective measure????? My daughter speaks English and Japanese (from her Mother) and understand Spanish (my language) when I talk to her, and can count in all three languages. She is only 3 and a half years old. I don't see any confusion or delay in her progress (and neither 3rd party observers, including my sister who is a speech therapist and whom I asked her to evaluate her just in case.)

    My nephew speaks English and Spanish from a very early age. He simply picked it up, and he's been on and off in learning Arabic (his father's language). My other nephew only spoke English, but once he was taken on a trip to our country of origin for a few weeks, he was speaking Spanish, reading it completely shortly thereafter. I would say that immigrant children of low-income families are as slow as mono-lingual children of equally disposesed (sp?) families. And with immigrant families in general (and Hispanic in particular), the income/education gap is true. But language or the presence of multiple languages, that is a factor. At the most, you might be seeing correlation (which we all know does not imply causation.)

    Sometimes they are confused about who speaks what language. Many times one of their children has come up to me and started babbling in a language I don't understand.

    But that's not confusion from children. They are simply talking naturally. They are not confused on what they are saying, and they not know that you don't know their language is not a symptom of a learning or cognitive deficiency. My daughter babbles to me in Japanese a lot of times, and I need my wife to translate. But for the most part she speaks to me in English and in Japanese to her mother. At no point in time my daugther is confused or having a cognitive problem in expressing herself when she speaks Japanese to me. You are confusing issues here

    Since small children are basically psychopaths (don't know right from wrong) they can't tell who understands or not.

    No, they are not psychopaths. They have still underdeveloped cognitive skills. Two different things. Poor choice of terms for building an allegory.

    Talking to you in a language that you do not understand is not a wrong, just as it is not a wrong for them to not know, for example, that something still exists even when it is no longer in their view (remember kids crying when they don't see mommy, because they think mommy doesn't exist anymore?)

    Over the long term they catch up

    Yep, in about a year or two at the most.

    but if you were trying bilingual children without *needing* to

    Who in his right mind nowadays can say that they children do not need to be bilingual, or at least have a minimum working knowledge of a 2nd language should they ever aspire to something?

    or if both parents spoke only one language, it would be pretty easy to just say "it confuses the children" and give up.

    Herein lies the gist of it, it is people who (in your own words), just say "it confuses the children", and give up. People who are more prone to give up on that will also give up on other topics they do not understand (math for example.). But it has nothing to do with a 2nd language confusing people (or parents). Some parents are just lazy, and others are simply rightfully overwhelmed (it is not easy being a parent, I KNOW.) But this argument has nothing to do with "children confusion."

    My own son is only 4 months so he isn't saying much of anything, but based on the experience of our friends, he will be a little s

  68. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

    I wasn't too sure how well Mandarin is universally understood in China. China has an ass-load of languages.

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  69. Mental Integration by hoboroadie · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm one of the ignorant monolingual types so typical of the U.S.A. When I studied Francais at school, I noticed that I did some thinking in the language, and felt that it was speeding up my thought processes, much like a multi-threaded CPU. I thought if one could grok the subtle differences between word translations it could increase intuitive understanding of reality.
    Is Dr. Lauchlan the first one to actually look into this?

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  70. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    I speak neither French nor Portuguese and I still understand it. Must be my high-school obsession for Latin. ;-)

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  71. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    That would be sesquilingual, I guess.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  72. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    ideally using a young child that uses two languages in a single sentence as evidence

    Just refer them to the phenomenon of code switching. That is not an error or grammar mistake by any means. This phenomenon has been observed to have strict grammatical rules, as solid as, say, embedding ESQL in the host language in programming.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  73. Logos by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

    Think about it.
    There, did you notice how words defined and directed your thoughts?
    That is all.

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    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  74. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who the hell thinks this?

    Some teachers I have met claim that some children handle this better than others. If a child is a slow starter when it comes to talking, it is best to focus one language, and then introduce the second when the child forms full sentences in the first. The danger is that the child does not develop necessary basic language functions when their brain is "supposed to" learning these, thus limiting their overall language development.

    IMHO, if the child can cope, start with the second language early. The benefits of knowing multiple languages are enormous, both when it comes to becoming better at learning, and as a door opener almost everywhere.

  75. Make sense. by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

    Creative kids find it easier to be bilingual, therefore more bilingual kids would be found to be more creative than non-bilingual kids. The trap you fall into is believing that making kids bilingual will suddenly make them more creative.

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  76. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it interpreted 'just' as 'just now' rather than 'merely'.

  77. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who the hell thinks this? I grew up in a bilingual household and then took Spanish in high school, so I'm semi-trilingual. Childhood is the best time to learn a new language since children can still hear the differences between phonemes that aren't present in the main society's language.

    semi-trilingual = one-and-a-half-lingual

  78. Duh. What about children that are well traveled? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Duh.

    What about children that are well traveled and lived all over the world, but didn't learn any local languages? I know a few people with this background. They've lived in 15 different countries before college due to a parent's job. They always attended "international schools" - which translates into English-speaking schools when outside the USA.

    Military families might have this, assuming the family member isn't assigned to a base, but has a different, more integrated assignment when overseas. Overseas military don't get the same feeling of being alone that the kids of a hotel manager get. Trust me.

  79. It's pretty common by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 2

    Dutch are taught Dutch, French, German and English before graduating school. Norwegians learn Bokmaal, NyNorsk, English and an elective language, then they generally also understand Swedish and Danish nearly fluently. Swedes learn Swedish, English and usually a third as Danish learn Danish, English and a third. Both Swedes and Danes normally understand Bokmaal Norwegian. Fins learn Suomi, Swedish, English and often a fourth. I only mentioned a small percentage of the world, they're only about 50 million people altogether, but that's about 1% of the world's population.

    That sounds pretty common. I'm am American and I can speak 2 languages fluently, a third not-so-fluently, can communicate in 5 other languages (order food, ask directions, etc...) and can read a total of 14 languages without much effort. I suck at language too... my hearing problems make it impossible for me to learn new sounds, but once you learn a few, the others aren't so hard (within the same families).

    My kids... they learn new languages like it's just natural. That's because on a daily basis, they can be watching cartoons or playing video games in 4 different languages and then we watch educational videos on learning new languages together. I am really hoping I can get one of them to learn Mandarin at some point.

  80. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by LienRag · · Score: 1

    Françoise Dolto worked with migrant children and found that the problem was more about the fact that the children were confused about the reason behind the different languages; one even said "it's the language for making babies" -IIRC- so they did'nt know which language they were allowed to speak without trespassing their parents' intimacy.

  81. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The US, monolingual, ah ah ! Thank you for the good laugh.
    Time to wake up. mate. Spanish is soon going to be spoken by more people than english here.

  82. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by rioki · · Score: 1

    Don't worry, the "delay" they pick up speaking is at maximum 2-3 months. When they hit the age of three everything is peachy. I brought up my daughter in Germany and I speak with her only in English and my wife in German. The only oddity is that we have some terms that stick to one language, for example she will always ask us for "cookie", not a "Kecks". She knows it's Kecks in German and any other Person she will ask that...

  83. monocultural is so 1980 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for sure monolingual / mono cultural people are handicaped , i speak english french spanish and mandarin , my 6 and 8 yo daughters both speak french and mandarin + english as second language and my 8 yo is working her spanish . as other say it's not that smater people can , it's that you get smarter by , i dont know in what language i think , seriously. so imagine the synapse creation when you mix spanish and madarin for exemple , now bring it to the cultural level and you start to understand why monoculturals can be so blend and predictable.

  84. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

    Monads are in Haskell and are side-effect encapsulating types not typically used in most data structures.

    --
    I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
  85. Learning second only is difficult by DrYak · · Score: 1

    My guess is that finding people speaking more than 2 languages are not common... and you sir are a real exception.

    It's learning a second language which is the most difficult.
    Further language comes much more easily.

    If you speak at least 2 languages, your brain is used to the fact that different words map differently to different concepts depending on the language.
    (To cite an example that every /. and opensource geek knows: 2 of concepts that English maps under the word "free" (as in "beer" and "speech") are very often mapped to separate words in lots of other languages, "gratis" and "libre" being popular roots in languages of latin ancestry)

    Also, if you speak at least 2 language you are used that languages might use completely different grammar rules and structures.
    (Take Mark Twain's rant about German. About 1/3 of his rant is about real peculiarities of the German language (some peculiarities in the word ordering).
    The remaining 2/3 of his rant could be shortened as "Sorry for you, Mark, if you are only used to a weirdly broken language as your only point of comparison. 99% of the rest of the world are completely used to this" (2 or 3 noun genders, cases and flections, etc.) )

    From that point of view learning an extra language boils down to learning new vocabulary and learning the particular set of rules that said language work. (Almost like learning a new programming language, except that human languages are much more complex and require a lot of extra knowledge)

    Whereas someone who speaks only 1 language has to learn to "think differently" when speaking other than his native language.

    So yeah, okay. Maybe a kid in a bilingual environment will get slightly confused and be a little bit slower in the beginning. But don't panic about a few months or even a year delay in speech emergence, it's a small inconvenience but brings much advantages in the future.

    Then as mentioned in other answers there's also geographical proximity of different languages:
    In Europe it's common to speak at least a couple of them, just to be able to communicate with people from neighbouring countries.
    And then there are the ultra-language-rich regions (Africa, India, etc.)

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