Slashdot Mirror


Free Software PS2 Emulator PCSX2 Hits 1.0

An anonymous reader writes with an excerpt from geek.net on the release of PCSX2, a GPLed emulator for the PS2: "PCSX2 is a free PS2 emulator for the PC that has been in development since the year 2000 and managed to reach version 1.0 last week. As an emulator it's an impressive piece of work, boasting compatibility with over 73 percent of games, which is some 1,697 titles. It can offer up graphics beyond what the original hardware was capable of, achieving resolutions up to 4096 x 4096 with anti-aliasing and texture filtering. You can save games, record video as you play, use a range of controllers, and even adjust game speed if you so wish. Of course, you'll need a fast machine to run PS2 games at a decent speed, but the spec is still reasonable. It's recommended you have at least a Core 2 Duo running at 3.2GHz, or a Core i5 at 2.66GHz+. As for graphics cards, a GeForce 9600GT or Radeon HD 4750 is desirable." Grab it while it's hot (official binaries and source). Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be packaged for any GNU/Linux distros (Debian has packages of the predecessor to PCSX2, PCSX: Reloaded which, naturally, emulated the Playstation).

142 of 202 comments (clear)

  1. I really want to by mrstrano · · Score: 1

    buy a copy of an old Winning Eleven and play it on my laptop now.

    1. Re:I really want to by Narishma · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure there are PC versions of Winning Eleven (or rather Pro Evolution Soccer as it's called outside of Japan). No need for emulators.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
  2. Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    PCSX2 is only really usable with the GSDX GPU plugin, which as the name implies, uses DirectX. Although it can run under Linux in software rendering mode.

    On Linux and Mac, you're stuck with either poor graphics emulation (bad emulation quality, breakage, glitches, poor performance) with the GL plugin, or good but non-accelerated graphics emulation with GSDX.

    It's also a 32-bit only app and they don't even support building it in 64-bit distros (even though it'd only take a few buildsystem fixes to actually make it build in 32-bit mode fine, much like Wine). This is why distros don't ship it.

    1. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by digitalderbs · · Score: 1

      I guess we'll have to wait for version 2.0.

    2. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Whining is bad, but what is wrong with informing other people about the limitations of the software, before they waste time on trying to use it?

    3. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by AmazingRuss · · Score: 4, Funny

      But it's open! It's free! You want it to WORK too? Ingrate!

    4. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      +1

      Although GGP had a tone of complaint which seems to have set everyone off, their post is by far the most informative here. 73% compatability is extremely far from 73% of games emulated perfectly on a high-spec Linux machine. You could easily get that with SNES but would be surprised to see the same for anything more recent.

      Still, great work PCSX2 team! I'm very much into emulation and, while I haven't used Windows in over a decade and probably never will use it, consider your work a fantastic boost to human wealth. I almost wish I had Paypal so I could donate (but not enough to open an Paypal account, I hope you understand).

    5. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is how open source works

      Publisher: we have been dragging nuts working on software using over decade old code that is now obsolete
      User: but XYZ doesnt work
      Publisher:fuck you, fix it for us, were too busy acting like Jesus now since we actually tried to produce something
      Community: That sucks, time to move on
      Freetards: your a bum how dare you have some input on gimpy software, dont whine if your not fixing other peoples code, I know you dont have a life or any other projects, I sure as fuck dont ... but I cant code anyway so I am going to go act as FOSS defender on slashdot (breathes heavily from mouth)

    6. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He wasnt whining, he was posting what looked to be very constructive criticism.

      Or is the new FOSS thing that you are simply not allowed anything other than worship of any project you have not contributed to? Perhaps we should all pretend that Thunderbird is the best mail client ever made, since the majority of us have never contributed it it?

      Honestly, with no bugs (complaints!) opened by the users, Im not sure how these projects would improve, but who am I to comment.

    7. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by flimflammer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And this right there is a prime example why the whole free software movement will never truly catch on to mainstream adoption in the desktop and why proprietary is still king there. Anytime there is a shortcoming or problem with the program, the first response is almost always defensive and/or demeaning to the user. That this actually was modded up compounds the point even further.

      How dare those users criticize anything about my baby. They're getting it for free; what gives them the right!? They can just fix it themselves if they care so much!

    8. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      The developers don't owe you shit as they are giving this to you for free.

      If you don't want developers hearing complaints then don't Slashvertise it.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    9. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      BSNES is essentially 100% compatibility on the covered system. Unfortunately, anything more complicated is going to require machines not yet available to the typical home user.

    10. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by oji-sama · · Score: 1

      Pointing out a limitation != whining. People should learn what a word means before trying to be an asshole while misusing it.

      True enough, however phrases such as "they don't even support" sound a bit whinyish.

      --
      It is what it is.
    11. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Unlike the proprietary software world, where when someone reports a problem it's fixed immediately and a patch pushed out, free of charge?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by evil_core · · Score: 2

      RTFM!

      "GSdx ported for Linux! Based on OpenGL 3.3 with some 4.x hardware independent extensions. Requires OpenGL 4.2 drivers and is still in experimental stages. Don't expect the hardware renderer to run properly, but the Software renderer should be fine."
        [ citation from PCSX2 ChangeLog ]

    13. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      Really? I never said any of that. Have you ever seen that happen in an even moderately large free software project either? Everything full stop until this one persons problem is solved? You're being unfair, because unless it's a very small project, no one, free or proprietary (unless it's in a service contract) is going to do that. In terms of proprietary vs. free, however, the overall attitude regarding users is generally much different. Being able to contact the company and get support is a very important part of why proprietary software is strong. Community support just isn't something you can always rely on when you really need it.

    14. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I think in 2012 pointing out they don't support building in a 64bit environment is a fair complaint.

    15. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by dskzero · · Score: 1

      Why would you make a piece of entertainment software to be useful, anyway?

      --
      Oblivion Awaits
    16. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by oji-sama · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think in 2012 pointing out they don't support building in a 64bit environment is a fair complaint.

      Well yes... But there's a difference between

      "It's also a 32-bit only app and they don't even support building it in 64-bit distros (even though it'd only take a few buildsystem fixes to actually make it build in 32-bit mode fine, much like Wine)"

      and

      "It's a 32-bit only app and and building it in 64-bit distros is not currently supported. However it will only take a few buildsystem fixes to actually make it build in 32-bit mode fine, much like Wine"

      You know, the source is available, and if the OP is correct in stating that fixing it is easy (and knows how to do it), he could and should fix it...

      --
      It is what it is.
    17. Re:Unfortunately, the GL plugin sucks by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      Go be a zealot somewhere else.

  3. My media PC is going to be so awesome. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

    I've paired PS3 controls with Linux before. The latest Ubuntu release is making it difficult, but nothing I can't overcome.

    Between the sheer smoothness and beauty of XBMC, it's ability to launch NES, SNES, Sega and other emulators as well as native Linux games grabbing a couple of PS3 controls on a PC tucked away out of sight replaces what used to be a gianormous wiring mess connected to every TV.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    1. Re:My media PC is going to be so awesome. by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I don't know why the patches weren't in BlueZ official a long time ago. Even Apple added their version in Snow Leopard. Adding them to BlueZ more or less kills the open source project that donated the code, but that's not a bad thing in this case.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  4. Took yer time by XsCode · · Score: 1, Funny

    It didn't take that long to design, build and send a rover to mars!

    1. Re:Took yer time by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, but NASA didn't have to deal with Sony's BS.

    2. Re:Took yer time by quacking+duck · · Score: 2

      If this emulator project had received $2.5 billion in funding too, I'm sure version 1 would've been out the door much sooner.

  5. Can it play from the disc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've got a ton of PS2 games I'd like to take for a spin, this might well be the first emulator that I'd use for something other than piracy.

    1. Re:Can it play from the disc? by marcansoft · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, it can (because PS2 disks, thankfully and unlike e.g. Wii ones, are readable as-is on a PC).

      Making an image is probably a good plan though, if only for the reduced seek times.

    2. Re:Can it play from the disc? by JDG1980 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, PCSX2 can play from the original disc and you do not need any special hardware to do that. However, ripping your disc to an ISO is a better choice because this pretty much does away with access times.

    3. Re:Can it play from the disc? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Discs suck. I don't even use discs on a real PS2.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:Can it play from the disc? by Megane · · Score: 2

      This. I seriously tried to play a game right off the disc. But normal PC DVD-ROM drives like to spin down, which means the game stops until it spins up again. And as a bonus, playing from a rip somehow improved the frame rate in general.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    5. Re:Can it play from the disc? by darkfeline · · Score: 1

      Yes, it can (because PS2 disks, thankfully and unlike e.g. Wii ones, are readable as-is on a PC).

      Making an image is probably a good plan though, if only for the reduced seek times.

      Which may or may not be legal, depending on who you ask, where you live, what forums you frequent, and how much money you have.

    6. Re:Can it play from the disc? by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      I've had no problems playing PS1 games disk-in-drive. Granted, sometimes seek times were atrocious (doesn't take long to spin up to the slow speed the original hardware had, but ramping up and back down from 52x drives you nuts). But reading itself worked.

      To save my drive and sanity though I would rip the ISO file and mount that. Gets rid of all the spinup times etc.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    7. Re:Can it play from the disc? by Unknown+Lamer · · Score: 1

      Copyright only covers distribution.

      --

      HAL 7000, fewer features than the HAL 9000, but just as homicidal!
    8. Re:Can it play from the disc? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      No, copyright covers, wait for it... copying. It is entirely possible to infringe copyright without distribution. The trick would be someone proving damages and not getting the case tossed out of court if they tried to prosecute.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:Can it play from the disc? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      That depends on your jurisdiction. In the US, that's permissible infringement, as it's covered under fair use. In the UK, it's technically illegal to format shift, but it's not enforced.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:Can it play from the disc? by _Shad0w_ · · Score: 1

      No it doesn't. At its most simple level - without all the moral rights to be identified as the author stuff - copyright is the right to make a copy. The clue is kind of in the name.

      --

      Yeah, I had a sig once; I got bored of it.

    11. Re:Can it play from the disc? by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Which may or may not be legal, depending on who you ask, where you live, what forums you frequent, and how much money you have.

      If you ask a philosopher (in this case, me), PS2 games are on the edge of becoming abandonware, so making free copies means enrichening the culture, without killing anyone's cash cows.

    12. Re:Can it play from the disc? by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      I'm confused, having heard conflicting things, as to whether fair use counts as "permissible infringement," or if fair use is an outright EXCEPTION, and not an infringement.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
    13. Re:Can it play from the disc? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It's an affirmative defence. That means that you can still be taken to court for it, but you will win if you show that that what you are doing is covered by fair use.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    14. Re:Can it play from the disc? by minasoko · · Score: 1

      Correct. The copyright holders do not want this to happen, or precedent will be set and the law will be reviewed. Far better to scare the common folk into compliance with "You wouldn't steal a car" and important-sounding legalese messages every 30 seconds, reminding you you're probably a criminal for ripping that Pingu DVD.

  6. Gonna check it out again by gman003 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I tried using it on my old computer (Core 2 Duo @ 2.26GHz, GeForce 9600), and it didn't run at all well. Primarily seemed to be the sound - sound disabled, it ran at about full speed, but with sound it ran around 5fps. Changing video settings didn't seem to affect it - I got 5fps at 16x MSAA and 5fps at 0x AA.

    That computer died a while back, and I'm on a new, more powerful one now (Core i7 @ 2.3GHz, GeForce 660), so I might try this out sometime, see if I can handle it now.

    1. Re:Gonna check it out again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Thank you. Please keep us updated.

    2. Re:Gonna check it out again by X0563511 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Check your sound sync settings. You've got it slaved to the GPU or CPU. While that keeps things perfectly timed, it really eats performance as you know.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    3. Re:Gonna check it out again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    4. Re:Gonna check it out again by gman003 · · Score: 2

      I tried that - the 5fps was with it OFF. With it synched to graphics, it was more in the range of "30 frames per minute" than "30 frames per second".

  7. I've always admired peoples' commitment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've always admired peoples' commitment to creating emulators for gaming platforms. Years down the track they're often the only platform left to play, unless of course the game publisher decides to 're-release' an old title with an inbuilt emulator for a nominal fee.

    As time goes on and as subsequent generations of consoles become more complicated in both their hardware and embedded operating systems, emulating them will become increasingly difficult. I don't know how long it can last.

    Hopefully console manufacturers will shy away from overcomplicated designs as they have been quite costly for them in the current generation of consoles, but this is probably wishful thinking.

    1. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As time goes on and as subsequent generations of consoles become more complicated in both their hardware and embedded operating systems, emulating them will become increasingly difficult. I don't know how long it can last.

      I think it's already happened. There's not a decent Xbox emulator yet, and it's based on pretty typical x86 hardware.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      well as consoles become more complex so do computers and there operating sytems which off sets the it. this will probably continue on like this for a very long time.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    3. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by marcansoft · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's one upside to newer console generations though: as consoles get more complicated, developers stick to APIs and don't do as much register-level fiddling or depending on things like hardware timing. That means that it's easier to perform higher-level emulation of newer consoles (as opposed to the cycle-accurate emulation often required to get good results for older 8-bit and 16-bit machines) and still have things work. Newer consoles are also more similar to a PC, which simplifies emulation.

      For example, the Dolphin GC/Wii emulator managed to get pretty accurate graphics emulation in less time than PCSX2 because the GC/Wii's GPU is a lot saner and has a model that is relatively easy to map to OpenGL/DX, unlike the PS2's GPU and vector units which are horribly painful to emulate. The 360's and PS3's and WiiU's GPUs are pretty much bog-standard PC GPUs (which does mean they will be more complex to implement full emulation for, but at least it will map more easily onto standard graphics APIs). The higher-level software frameworks also make it easier to use high-level emulation for chunks of the system - e.g. Dolphin doesn't emulate the Starlet ARM CPU of the Wii, but instead performs high-level emulation of its APIs. Therefore, it gets away without emulating the USB, SD, WiFi, flash, and other hardware, which greatly simplifies the implementation and makes it more user-friendly.

      It'll be challenging, but it's not an entirely dark future.

    4. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by Dogtanian · · Score: 2

      Hopefully console manufacturers will shy away from overcomplicated designs as they have been quite costly for them in the current generation of consoles, but this is probably wishful thinking.

      Well, it was said a while back that Sony aren't planning on investing as much in the PS4 as they did on the PS3.

      I don't remember how much it was supposed to have been that Sony spent developing the PS3 but it was something absolutely horrendous, and I suspect that whatever the benefits of its much hyped custom chips were, it probably didn't offset what they cost to develop or the benefit they provided. Even the cost of subsidising the early PS3s to get market share apparently cost Sony several billion (and they were still expensive).

      Yeah, I know that the PS3 is doing better now, probably due to the cost being reduced, but are they still in the red on the project overall?

      Anyway, bottom line is that- far moreso in the current economic climate than in 2006- Sony probably realise that they shouldn't- and couldn't- follow that path again, and will probably go for a (relatively) more off-the-shelf XBoxy approach.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    5. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      As time goes on and as subsequent generations of consoles become more complicated in both their hardware and embedded operating systems, emulating them will become increasingly difficult. I don't know how long it can last.

      Another point too is computers just aren't getting faster like they used to. I mean what kind of hardware would it take to emulate a PS3 or XBox 360? And when their successors come out, how long will we have to wait for computers to surpass those enough for emulation to be practical speedwise?

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    6. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by frosty_tsm · · Score: 1

      I don't remember how much it was supposed to have been that Sony spent developing the PS3 but it was something absolutely horrendous, and I suspect that whatever the benefits of its much hyped custom chips were, it probably didn't offset what they cost to develop or the benefit they provided. Even the cost of subsidising the early PS3s to get market share apparently cost Sony several billion (and they were still expensive).

      The Cell chips were a bad idea. Shiny, fancy, but most of the horsepower sits idle since the SPUs are nearly impossible to fully utilize (small cache per SPU, large number of them). Throw in one or two quad-cores with hyper-threading, a high-end GPU and some memory and call it a day.

    7. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by darkfeline · · Score: 1

      The main advantages of consoles are: cheaper hardware when mass-produced, and a standard API/hardware platform for ease of development. However, this leads to the copyright/platform compatibility/obselesence problems you're talking about. Now that VM technology is pretty robust, there's actually a way to make consoles obsolete. Create a freeware, opensource VM API a la Java (except BETTER, god damn), and have standard PC builds that manufacturers use (e.g. Gaming PC 100 Model A, Model B, Model C, at different price points and hardware levels). Devs can write games with this fictional VM, and publish specs like "High quality on Models B and C, low quality on Models A". Of course, Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony will fight to keep their little niches, but hopefully game devs, gamers, PC manufacturers will unite to make this happen.

    8. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Another point too is computers just aren't getting faster like they used to. I mean what kind of hardware would it take to emulate a PS3 or XBox 360?

      You're saying that the PS3 and XBox are more powerful than my i7 PC?

      Then why do PC versions of cross-platform games look and perform so much better on my PC? Like Arkham Asylum, COD4, etc.

      I have a hard time believing that an 8 year old XBox or PS3 is more powerful than a current gaming PC.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      You're saying that the PS3 and XBox are more powerful than my i7 PC?

      No, you misunderstand. I'm saying emulating them would take a ton of computer power. To emulate the Super Nintendo, you need an x86 PC that's is multiple orders of magnitude more power than the little 16-bit 65c816 Ricoh 5A22 3.58 MHz processor the thing has. Now scale that up to PS3 and XBox 360 standards. Now imagine the next generation after that. At some point due to just computers not scaling up in speed like they used to and consoles reaching parity, it stands to reason that emulation will be extraordinarily difficult to do at speed.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    10. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by Hatta · · Score: 1

      What's that got to do with emulation? Provide the hardware emulator a disc image of the hard disk and let it run the real thing. Perfectly legal for me to dump the 4gb hard disk image in my actual xbox and run it on an emulator for interoperability purposes. Should be much easier to do it that way than to reimplement the Xbox OS.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    11. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. I am willing to provide such for $10M USD up front, plus a lucrative contract that guarantees my employment over the next 5 years to provide you such a service/product

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    12. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      Yes, but if they're going to do that, then what's the point of using a console?

      I stick in my disc and feel good that it works

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    13. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by Desler · · Score: 1

      The point of consoles is the identical hardware. No need to have to support multiple GPU generations with varying capabilities across multiple vendors and the bugs specific to each vendor's GPU drivers.

    14. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by demonlapin · · Score: 2

      The flip side of that is that the Xbox was actually a damned fine PC for its era despite the low memory allotment. There was little incentive to emulate because all the big time classic gamers all had an Xbox for XBMC if nothing else. It's still a stellar piece of hardware for its time.

    15. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by JDG1980 · · Score: 2

      For example, the Dolphin GC/Wii emulator managed to get pretty accurate graphics emulation in less time than PCSX2 because the GC/Wii's GPU is a lot saner and has a model that is relatively easy to map to OpenGL/DX, unlike the PS2's GPU and vector units which are horribly painful to emulate.

      Dolphin still can't emulate Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker perfectly: the heat and smoke effects are badly broken (this is especially noticeable in Dragon Roost Cavern). It must be doing something weird with the hardware that the plugins can't emulate. I'm surprised that the issue hasn't been fixed in all these years for such a popular game, though I don't know whether or not that's for want of trying.

    16. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Perfectly legal for me to dump the 4gb hard disk image in my actual xbox and run it on an emulator for interoperability purposes

      Legal? Probably. Easy? Hell no. Especially as the platform becomes less common. This is why Amiga and Mac emulators sucked for so long - you needed to track down the original machine to dump the ROMs (or grab them illegally, of course), and if you were willing to do that then you may as well use the real machine. The situation improved for Macs when Apple made MacOS 7.5 a free download and when someone noticed that they provided a ROM update for an old machine that you could grab the ROM image from, so you could just grab everything you needed legally from Apple, but it's still a bit of a pain.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    17. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Let's say you target OpenGL. For vaguely recent things, you probably want to target OpenGL 3.0. Maybe 4.0. But you can get better performance if you use some extensions. Some are nVidia extensions and some are AMD extensions, so you need different code paths for them. Your target GPU will probably have 256M-3GB of VRAM, which gives you a massive range in the amount of vertex and texture data you can use before you start hitting performance problems. Your GPUs, even within the same family, vary in number of execution units by a factor of 4. You need to test both extremes.

      Or you can target a console. Even if the console uses OpenGL to expose the GPU, you're targeting a single model, with known performance characteristics, and a fixed amount of RAM. This was more or less the point of Microsoft's reorganisation of the DirectX model around version 10: to give a baseline for game developers. A GPU would either meet these requirements, or it wouldn't. If you produced a DirectX 10 game, it would run on any DirectX 10 GPU, or it would not run. In theory, anyway: the practice turned out to be a bit different...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    18. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 1

      - you needed to track down the original machine to dump the ROMs (or grab them illegally, of course), and if you were willing to do that then you may as well use the real machine.

      Surely everyone just downloaded them illegally, making this a non-impediment.

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    19. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by tepples · · Score: 1

      there's actually a way to make consoles obsolete. Create a freeware, opensource VM API a la Java (except BETTER, god damn), and have standard PC builds that manufacturers use

      But if it's a PC, how will you get end users to buy it and plug it into a TV? In the mind of the average (non-Slashdot-demographic) consumer, computers are for desks and TVs are for living rooms and never the twain shall meet.

    20. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      So, is an emulator like a VM? I can run other operating systems in a VM, and applications in those operating systems, on my PC, even inside of Windows 7 and I can barely see a difference in performance from native. Of course, some apps are better in VMs than others.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    21. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      Not exactly. At the risk of oversimplification, a virtual machine like Virtualbox or VMWare just isolates the guest OS in memory. Most execution can be passed to the native underlying hardware so its really quick. x86 isn't the easiest architecture to virtualize as all instructions can't just be passed through but Intel and AMD have made some big strides so virtualization is pretty good but still not as good as something like IBM's System/370 that was built from the ground up to be virtualizable.

      An emulator like qemu on the other hand can be used to run a guest OS that expects a different architecture, i.e., emulating ARM on x86 for something like the Android emulator (have you seen how slow that thing is?). Since most consoles other than the original xbox don't run on x86 hardware or anything close to it, they have to be emulated which forces a translation layer slowing things down considerably. There are tricks to speed emulation up and modern 3D accelerated programs usually target a software api like opengl or directx so there is much less translation involved assuming the underlying OS has support for those APIs. Also, hardware emulation can be sped up by various tricks and lots of emulators like zsnes employ some really clever stuff including being partially written in assembly but you still need at least a 233 MHz Pentium II which is massively more powerful than what is being emulated.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    22. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Thanks for your patient explanations, oakgrove.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    23. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by darkfeline · · Score: 1

      I'm not well versed in the current state of TV, but isn't HDMI a standard connector for monitors/TVs/displays of all sorts? "New gaming PC! Plug in a monitor or a TV! Play all games!" or something. It's true most people aren't tech savvy, but gamers at least have some idea what's going on (I hope). Plus there's flexibility in controller compatibility as well (assuming some basic arbitrary controller scheme, e.g. analog stick, d-pad 2 shoulder buttons, 4 face buttons, and let controller manufacturers worry about implementation and design, free competition should sort things out. If you like Xbox controller, go ahead. If you like PS3, go ahead. Any extra buttons (and existing buttons) you can map freely, &c. &c.).

    24. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by tepples · · Score: 1

      isn't HDMI a standard connector for monitors/TVs/displays of all sorts?

      It is, and anything with an HDMI or DVI output will connect easily. I lay out all the combinations in my how-to page on the topic. But that's useless if end users don't know about it.

      "New gaming PC! Plug in a monitor or a TV! Play all games!" or something.

      Yet for some reason, the major PC makers haven't tried this angle in their advertising. This is just a guess, but perhaps Microsoft discourages OEM Windows licensees from promoting properly configured PCs as set-top gaming devices so as not to compete with Microsoft's own Xbox 360 console. And part of it is chicken and egg: there aren't a lot of set-top PC sales because there aren't a lot of games optimized for set-top PCs, which in turn is because there aren't a lot of set-top PC sales.

      Plus there's flexibility in controller compatibility as well

      But how would a game know what button does what from the moment the game is turned on? Say a game has buttons to attack in particular directions. Examples include Lode Runner (dig left and dig right), Missile Command (fire from left, fire from center, fire from right), and Robotron and Smash TV (shoot north, south, west, and east). How would the game know which button on the controller fires in which direction before the player explicitly configures the controls? How would the game even know which button is the Start button? The advantage of a console is that the developer already knows the buttons' relative positions on all models of controller certified for use with a particular game.

    25. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by djnforce9 · · Score: 1

      Only drawback to using the native IR is that the rest of the game will look considerably uglier..... but at least the heat effect will work ;).

    26. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by djnforce9 · · Score: 1

      You're right. I always found it weird how Paper Mario 2 and Super Paper Mario ran almost graphics glitch free while the N64 Paper Mario was plagued with them regardless of which plugin you use.

      It also helps that Dolphin is open source while Project64 is using a very dated development model and progress has been painfully slow because of it. The author just does not want to release it for everyone to work on and instead requires a pretty hefty donation of $20 for you to access the newest version (1.7 Beta). 1964 on the other hand is open source and hopefully it catches up eventually.

    27. Re:I've always admired peoples' commitment by djnforce9 · · Score: 1

      I think it's safe to say that the Wii not getting significantly better hardware when compared to the Gamecube is probably part of the reason why it got emulated so quickly. On a very positive note, it also had full backwards compatibility with Gamecube titles and some Wii games even allowed usage of the original controller (e.g. Mario Kart Wii, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Smash Brothers Brawl, etc).

      In the PS2's case, it was quite a while before it got emulated while the PSX was easily emulated even on mid-range PC's by the time the PS2 came out.

  8. i prefer my *real* PS2. by wierd_w · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Why would I want to use an emulator on the classic windows game box I have in the living room, when I have the genuine article in there already?

    I have a PS2 Fat, with the network module, a 500gb IDE drive stuck in the expansion bay, and a magic memory card in card slot 1.

    FreeMCBoot is free. It exploits a little known feature in fat PS2s that allow it to boot from the memory card (this was used for japanese kareoke software), which gives me access to homebrew, and HD loader, OpenHDLoader, and USB advance.

    Between the 3, I no longer need to use the actual DVD disc drive to play my games, and the console will last almost forever in this state.

    I can play my PS2 games on the actual PS2, and have the convenience of picking the game I want to play without leaving the couch. It runs at full speed, because it is running on the native hardware.

    Why would I use an emulator? FreeMCBoot is free. Give me a memory card, and I can make it magic for you too. Not problems. I did it for several friends. You can make one yourself if you have skillz disc swapping or have an action replay disc. If you don't, there is a community who will cook your card for you for free.

    Not belittling PCSX2 or anything: for people that ditched their old console, it offers a good nostalgia fix, and also serves as a code base for emulators running on other consoles, (like the PS3, now that it is hopelessly smashed security wise.) That is *always* a good thing.

    But I still prefer the real thing.

    1. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by Junta · · Score: 2

      For one, a modern PC can render the PS2 content at higher resolutions. Sure, the geometric complexity is the same, but the jaggedness is much much better. Also, the HDLoader stuff can be a bit fickle and certainly kludgier to navigate than on a PC.

      Finally, the ability to use PS3 bluetooth controllers is nice.

      (Note, I don't actually do PCSX2, but this is the sort of thing I get out of other emulators, PCSX2 would be set up too if their Linux support was actually serviceable.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    2. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because you can't upscale them to 1920x1080 (or higher if you like) and patching them to wide screen (REAL wide screen, there are even patches for 'native' WS games done properly) making your old PS2 games look like their HD remakes :)
      Also, being able to play with any controller/mouse your PC can handle, save states allowing you to save anywhere and more stuff. Check out the official youtube channel for some very high quality videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/PCSX2team

    3. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>Why would I want to use an emulator on the classic windows game box I have in the living room, when I have the genuine article in there already?

      Because no console lasts forever. My original Atari console croaked. Ditto my Commodore 64 (not a console but it's not good for much else but NES-style gaming). I did manage to buy used models but they didn't last long either.

      These units lasted ~30 years but I bet the moving parts in a CD console won't last as long. It's nice to have Emulators so you can keep playing favorite Atari, C64, Super NES, Sega Genesis, PS1/2, N64 games long after the hardware goes extinct.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    4. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by rjr162 · · Score: 1

      I still have my fat ps2 with the dsm (dms? I forget now) 4 mod chip with toxic os.
      Tried to sell it years ago on eBay but they kept pulling the ad any time I mentioned home brew, mod chip, toxic os, etc

    5. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by Megane · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For one thing, good luck keeping that DVD drive working. Yeah, I know, WinHIIP, etc. But mostly it's a fiddling mess of hardware for which the only real advantage is that a PS2 with a 500 GB hard drive and FreeMCBoot is a lot more portable than a desktop PC. But that desktop PC is going to hook up to a modern TV set a lot more easily, too.

      I just got tired of keeping a PS2 running.

      And then there's save states. Very nice when you're playing RPGs.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    6. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      That is because the modchip is associated with the dreaded spectre of "piracy". Nevermind that no mainstream media house has produced a PS2 title in years, and that the SDK for small devs relies on homebrew ability to run.

      Just list it as a PS2 Fat. Don't mention the modded nature, except in private with buyers.

    7. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      Save states, pause/resume anywhere, fast forward (well, if your machine is fast enough), record video or audio, use almost any controller you want, less hardware, higher render resolution.

      I'm assuming your drive system eliminates effectively as much load lag already as a modern HD.

    8. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Actually, I cooked the memory card because the dvd's laser assembly is weak. I do use winhiip to dump the discs I buy. (These days ps2 games are like, 5$. Why pirate?)

      Same story with the console my friend gave to his kid. Laser unit is completely dead in that one. Open loader let's it still work, and the fact the kid doesn't need original discs is only a plus.

      I will switch to an emulator when the console does finally die. (I use ulaunchelf to dump my memory card saves periodically just as a precaution too.)

      But until my console dies, I don't see a reason to retire it.

    9. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Yeah, openloader and hdloader use a real internal IDE hdd, and at full speed. Load windows pop for maybe 4 seconds. (Instead of the half minute or so with a real disc.)

      Again though, for the real nostalgia fix, the lack of those emulator features (save/load state, et al) is preferable in my opinion. Part of the fun in games is the difficulty.

    10. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Also, the PS2 supports HD component video, and *CAN* drive a widescreen TV.

      It just isn't HDMI, and uses analog component. Really new TVs might not support it due to paranoia from media companies wanting to plug their "analog holes".

      But I hooked up a ps2 to a new TV just a few months ago for a friend's dad, who is a diehard console gamer. He is one of the people I shelled out money to get a network adaptor for so I could hook him up with an internal disk drive. His old game display was an eye-cancer and myopia inducing crt with blurry focus. I replaced it with a 42 inch LCD that was on sale as a "because whatever" present. Hooked him up with component video and a switcher box, and now he's not squinting to play his games anymore.

      Just thought I would mention that a PS2 can drive an HDtv just fine.

    11. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by Desler · · Score: 1

      Nevermind that no mainstream media house has produced a PS2 title in years

      So 2K Games, EA, Konami and THQ aren't mainstream game companies? All those were released between 5 and 10 months ago.

    12. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      News to me. The PS2 section at walmart has stopped being in the glass case, and has stuff like cabela's classic huntd in it.

      If game houses are still releasing titles for a console that by this time next year will be 2 genrations old, I wonder about their thought processes.

    13. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

      Because not everyone can get a working PS2 Fat. Also, wireless controllers and better media functionality.

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    14. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why would I want to use an emulator on the classic windows game box I have in the living room, when I have the genuine article in there already?

      Good god man, you do not belong here.

      I have a PS2 Fat, with the network module, a 500gb IDE drive stuck in the expansion bay, and a magic memory card in card slot 1.

      One day it will die, the drive alone is a ticking time bomb no matter how well you treat it. You'll also move a few times, run out of space and one day you just won't see the value in keeping an old piece of crap around just to play that one game you loved so much. (I'm looking you square in the eye's Contra.

      FreeMCBoot is free. It exploits a little known feature in fat PS2s that allow it to boot from the memory card (this was used for japanese kareoke software), which gives me access to homebrew, and HD loader, OpenHDLoader, and USB advance.

      Sigh, I'm not sure where to start here so I just won't.

      Not belittling PCSX2 or anything: for people that ditched their old console, it offers a good nostalgia fix, and also serves as a code base for emulators running on other consoles, (like the PS3, now that it is hopelessly smashed security wise.) That is *always* a good thing.

      But I still prefer the real thing.

      Fine so talk to me when I'm on my phone, tablet or glasses; playing my favorite games from the last 40 years on an airplane and your pissed you didn't bring your Atari 2600 and damn it the kids wanted to use the CRT TV at home.

      Just saying.

    15. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by Desler · · Score: 1

      If game houses are still releasing titles for a console that by this time next year will be 2 genrations old, I wonder about their thought processes.

      Their thought process is that the PS2 is still making them money so they make games for it. It was only around 2010 when the amount of new games really slowed down a lot.

    16. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "i prefer my *real* PS2."

      And I'll be playing God of war 1 and games like Gradius V in high resolution. PC emulation only makes old classics better in the long run unless their is incompatibility or some game company does something incredibly stupid like how the original FF7 had really poorly encoded FMV which made the PS1 version superior. Although FF7 PC now has mods that take it beyond what the original could have ever dreamed.

      There is a whole host of mods here

      http://fem1.uniag.sk/Miroslav.Jezik/ff7ncopam.html

      Also screenshots of enhanced models/textures and graphics can be found around the web, stuff IMPOSSIBLE to do on a console.

    17. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by luncheon · · Score: 1

      The Open PS2 Loader also supports SMB shares, and memory card emulation.

    18. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by dmneoblade · · Score: 1

      The PS2 I have plugged into my home theatre setup, and it jitters up and down every other frame. The media PC hooked up via HDMI has no issues. Thus, using an emulator will grant me superior performance, and legible text. Looking into the issue appears to indicate that the problem is that I have a receiver that upscales the video, and a TV that does the same. However, neither my receiver nor my TV seem to have settings allowing me to fully fix it. I've made it _better_, but its still garbage for my RPG collection. I'm in the process of setting up and evaluating PCSX2, as it would greatly enhance my ability to enjoy my game collection, without buying a TV just for PS2 usage.

      --
      Warning, knife is sharp. Please keep out of children.
    19. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      Are you using the rf modulator/rca composite video option?

      The PS2 supports using component video which can drive at higher resolutions, including 16:9 widescreen mode.

      Just saying.

    20. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "It runs at full speed, because it is running on the native hardware."

      Yep, I can tell you've never played Shadow of the Colossus. Full speed, on an actual PS2, HAH!

      Not even FOUR REVISIONS could give the PS2 enough power for SotC.

      PCSX2? MUCH FASTER.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    21. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      I got a working C64. Just not the patience to wait 15 minutes for a game to load.

    22. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by White+Flame · · Score: 1

      I rarely use save states for cheating, but they're incredibly handy for convenience. Something pops up in Skype or whatever, and you can save & quit at any point in the game.

    23. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by dmneoblade · · Score: 1

      I'm using component cable. Works great when I plug it directly into the TV, but then I don't get surround sound. Plug it into the receiver, and it jitters, but sound works. Plug the video into the TV and audio into the receiver: Possible, but I'd need to extend the cables, and it makes it more of a pain to switch over.

      --
      Warning, knife is sharp. Please keep out of children.
    24. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by tepples · · Score: 1

      It just isn't HDMI, and uses analog component. Really new TVs might not support it due to paranoia from media companies wanting to plug their "analog holes".

      I don't see analog component video inputs disappearing until Wii is long dead.

    25. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      The PS2 section at walmart has stopped being in the glass case,

      The Wal-Mart here still has PS2 games in the glass case.

      and has stuff like cabela's classic huntd in it.

      Wal-mart doesn't have a good selection...in some ways even K-Mart has a more diverse selection.

      If game houses are still releasing titles for a console that by this time next year will be 2 genrations old, I wonder about their thought processes.

      Their thinking is "Massive PS2 install base", not even taking into account the early CECHA/B/E model PS3's with backwards compatibility. I think in some ways the PS2 has become the "kids playrrom" system. Dad has a PS3/360 attached to the big screen in the living room/man cave for his manly brown shooters and Sports games, while the young kids have a PS2 in their bedroom/playroom for the Disney/Nick/platformer games.

    26. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      But that desktop PC is going to hook up to a modern TV set a lot more easily, too.

      Modern TV's don't have Component, S-Video, Composite or as a last resort...RF inputs? I personally woudn't buy a TV with all of the above AND VGA and HDMI.

    27. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Because not everyone can get a working PS2 Fat.

      You mean you don't have one already? A nice FAT 50001 model, that are built like tanks? (50001's are FAR more reliable than 30001's)

    28. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      I'm using component cable. Works great when I plug it directly into the TV, but then I don't get surround sound. Plug it into the receiver, and it jitters, but sound works.

      Sound's like the receivers the problem, not the PS2

      Plug the video into the TV and audio into the receiver: Possible, but I'd need to extend the cables, and it makes it more of a pain to switch over.

      Are you using optical out on the PS2?

    29. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      FreeMCBoot is free. Give me a memory card, and I can make it magic for you too. Not problems. I did it for several friends. You can make one yourself if you have skillz disc swapping or have an action replay disc. If you don't, there is a community who will cook your card for you for free.

      Wouldn't it be easiest to just create the memory card "saves" copy them over to USB storage, or SD/MMC/MS/CF card, put that in a PS3 and have the PS3 create the PS2 memory cards via the little PS2 memory card reader that plugs into a PS3? Once the the little boot thingy is created the PS2 just treats it as a "save", right? At least it did for LInux.

      That's pretty much how RPG Maker users share their games now.

    30. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

      I had one, but the disc drive became noisy and didn't read so well. It would have been more than the cost of a new Slim to repair.

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    31. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      No, every revision does NOT have identical performance and the hardware revisions changed dramatically, from removing features to adding others. The revisions with the combo EE+GS chips showed considerable improvement in SotC play over the older separate GS and EE chips, but still not enough to play the game, with some scenes still dropping to 5 FPS or worse.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    32. Re:i prefer my *real* PS2. by djnforce9 · · Score: 1

      I agree with the other replies. If you just want to play the games as they were on the original hardware, then there is no reason to use a PC emulator. Likewise, this is only for those with REALLY fast PC's because let's face it, mid-range specs aren't going to cut it if you want full speed all the time. I have seen countless posts on the official forums from people with dual or quad core 2.66Ghz PC's and the reply is always the same: "Your CPU is too weak".

      However, for those that don't have the special hardware used in your setup (such as myself) and/or have a very capable PC and want the boosted internal resolution, emulators are the way to go. I have to say from personal experience using PCSX2 that the difference is like night and day and I'd rather play on the emulator than the original hardware if I can. It REALLY gets highlighted in games like Dragon Quest VIII where FMV's actually use the in-game graphics so it often goes from fuzzy and jagged to crystal clear all of a sudden. Xenosaga does the same thing and probably many other titles. Right now I am playing through Shining Force EXA and having a blast.

      The same thing can be applied to Gamecube and Wii emulation (just wish their audio HLE was better but I am sure it will come all in due time). Sonic Colors looks just as lush and detailed as Sonic Generations when I play it on Dolphin but really ugly on the original hardware.

  9. PCSX2 is my computing timeline. by gallondr00nk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Going back to about 2001, every couple of years when I've upgraded, I've tried to see if I can actually run a game on the fucker.

    I've tried it on a Pentium II 350mhz, a Duron 1.3ghz, a Celeron 2.6ghz, a P4 3ghz with a x1950 radeon. Tried it today on my old dual xeon and its still nowhere near smooth with Gt4.

    Oh well, sometime in the next decade, maybe.

    1. Re:PCSX2 is my computing timeline. by Narishma · · Score: 1

      My i3 (330M @ 2.13 Ghz) can't quite do that. I've only tested with a couple of games (FF12 and God of War) but I'm only getting 60 fps when there's not much happening, like in menus and cut-scenes and simple scenes). As soon as stuff starts happening it plummets down to 30 fps or less. That would be fine if it was skipping frames, but apparently it can't do that reliably due to the nature of the PS2's graphics pipeline and the game slows down to a crawl.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
    2. Re:PCSX2 is my computing timeline. by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Most generations of Xeons have sucked at games.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  10. "Free" as in... by Guppy06 · · Score: 2

    You have to get a copy of Sony's PS2 BIOS to get it to work.

    1. Re:"Free" as in... by Tukz · · Score: 1

      If you got PS2 games, surely you have a PS2 also then.
      Grab the BIOS from that.

      --
      - Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
    2. Re:"Free" as in... by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      In order to have a legitimate copy of the BIOS, you need to own a PS2.

      In order to make a legitimate copy of the BIOS, you need a hacked PS2.

      If you already have a hacked PS2, what's the point of a PS2 emulator?

    3. Re:"Free" as in... by Tukz · · Score: 1

      You don't need a modded PS2 to get the BIOS dump.
      It's a bit more work, but very possible.

      --
      - Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
  11. Great! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    What are the good PS2 games? I want to see if I can get this to work right now.

    I wouldn't spend a dime on Sony, but I'd love to try some of those games.

    What was big on the PS2?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Great! by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      Universally recognized hit titles are things like GT, (gran Tourismo) resident evil series, crash bandicoot, suikoden series, some people were partial to the .hack series, and others I've met loved darkcloud 2.

      Others are things like katamari damaci (which is hard to classify as a genre...) god of war, shadow of the collosus, and pals.

      For shooters, you have medal of honor and a few others.

    2. Re:Great! by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Do you like JRPGs? Try Persona 3. Do you like shmups? Try Gradius V or Mushihime-sama. Do you like Beat Em Ups? Try God Hand or The Red Star. Do you like arcade style air combat? Try Ace Combat 4 or 5. Do you like Zelda-likes? Try Okami (pretty too!). Do you like art wanks? Try Ico or Shadow of the Colossus. Like robot combat? Try Zone of the Enders.

      That should get you started. I've only had a PS2 for 3 years or so now, in a house full of consoles and it gets a lot of use. Great library. Look into FreeMC boot if you want the best PS2 experience.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:Great! by Monkey-Man2000 · · Score: 1

      Let's see, a few of the best I remember were of course GTA 3, Vice City, San Andreas, I liked Tekken Tag Tournament, Metal Gear Solid, Max Payne, and Virtua Fighter. I remember a few other less popular games but forgot the names. But Vice City is still quite possibly the most memorable GTA.

      --
      This post was generated by a Cadre of Uber Monkeys for Monkey-Man2000 (603495).
    4. Re:Great! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Shadow of the Colossus looks insane. All of your recommendations appeal to me.

      I'm gonna try this emulator thing tomorrow when I've got some time.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Great! by Rhywden · · Score: 1

      Shadow of the Colossus won't work, though. I've got an i5@3.5GHz and a Geforce560Ti - and it won't run at more than 20 FPS. The developers of the emulator themselves stated that SotC is very demanding. Stuff like FinalFantasy works, however - though even that one slows down during the odd scenes.

    6. Re:Great! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I never saw anything like it. Maybe I'll try to get a used PS2 off Craig's list and play it properly.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re:Great! by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      crash bandicoot,

      Not the PS2 releases! You're thinking of the PSone games, which play just fine on a real PS2 of course.

      The PS2 platformers of choice were the Ratchet & Clank, Jax & Daxter, and Sly Cooper series.

      As for Shooters, I'd recommend SOCOM, Half-Life and Deus Ex over any others.

    8. Re:Great! by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      You'd be better off getting a PS3 and getting the SotC HD rerelease on disk or PSN hat'll run on hardware that can actually handle it! That release also includes ICO.

      In fact, you might as well pick up a CECHA, CECHB, or CECHE model PS3 to begin with... then you can just play the PS2 games on that, with wireless controls.

  12. Re:Uhm by byuu · · Score: 2

    Trust me, you really, really don't want a low-level PS2 emulator. It would be a great thing to have made now for documentation purposes (so that the knowledge is preserved while it's still easily accessible), but it wouldn't run full speed on anything released in the next 40-50 years.

  13. nerds: 1, suits: 0 by jehan60188 · · Score: 1

    took 12 years, but it just goes to show, nerds > suits

  14. Games, Emulators and GPL software? by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    Yup, thats a slashdotting alright. ;)

  15. PS2 Vios by aepervius · · Score: 1
    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  16. Multiplayer difference between versions by tepples · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure there are PC versions of Winning Eleven (or rather Pro Evolution Soccer as it's called outside of Japan). No need for emulators.

    I imagine that in a lot of cases, there are features that console versions have that are cut from PC versions, such as the ability to use more than one gamepad with one machine and one screen. In certain console game genres, a mode supporting two players on one machine is to be expected, but the PC version assumes LAN or online play and thus requires a separate PC and copy of the game per player to make more money for the publisher. No, screen-peeking is not always a blocker, especially in e.g. fighting games and games with co-op missions. In these cases, this makes the console version more desirable for a media PC than the PC version.

    1. Re:Multiplayer difference between versions by Narishma · · Score: 1

      Are you talking in general? Because for this specific series of games, it has all those features in the PC version. Two players can play on the same screen with any combination of keyboard and/or gamepad controls. Same thing with PC versions of the fighting games I've played.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
    2. Re:Multiplayer difference between versions by tepples · · Score: 1

      Are you talking in general?

      You are correct that I've never played PES. I was referring to a general trend between PC games and console games: console games are far more likely to support shared-screen multiplayer, and games in genres where shared-screen multiplayer is an expected feature are far more likely to be released on consoles than on PCs.

      Same thing with PC versions of the fighting games I've played.

      With respect to major-label fighting games, as I understand it, it's more often the pattern that there is no PC version at all. A "cross-platform" game might just be for Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. (As I understand it, SF4 is the exception.)

    3. Re:Multiplayer difference between versions by Narishma · · Score: 1

      Yes, SF4 is the one I have.
      SFxTekken was also recently released on PC.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
  17. How to read NES carts? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Between the sheer smoothness and beauty of XBMC, it's ability to launch NES, SNES, Sega and other emulators

    Sure, you can buy a standard PC DVD-ROM drive to read your PS1 and PS2 discs as marcansoft pointed out, and you can buy a Retrode adapter to read your Super NES and Sega Genesis cartridges. But what do you use to dump your NES cartridges? Or do you just play homebrew NES games like Super Bat Puncher, Thwaite, and Zooming Secretary?

    1. Re:How to read NES carts? by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      there are sites with all the listed parts needed, and the instructions on HOW to build, a ROM dumper for various consoles - if you're into building it yourself... if you're looking for prebuilt hardware for dumping, I gotta look as even I'M curious about that.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
    2. Re:How to read NES carts? by tepples · · Score: 1

      if you're looking for prebuilt hardware for dumping

      Yes, that's what the majority of emulator users would be looking for if they want to handle everything by the book. As I understand the law, one has the right to dump one's own cartridges (17 USC 117) but not to download copies from the Internet even if one already owns the cartridge (UMG v. MP3.com). Every NES cart reader that I've seen requires soldering, and that appeals to an even smaller demographic than hooking a PC up to a TV.

    3. Re:How to read NES carts? by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      FYI:

      I am NASA-STD-8739.3 certified. The standard may be canceled, but still in effect until all the old contracts are up.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  18. Statutory damages and attorney's fees by tepples · · Score: 1

    The trick would be someone proving damages and not getting the case tossed out of court if they tried to prosecute.

    In practice, they don't have to prove damages. They just have to prove the infringement of a copyright to collect statutory damages (which are available if the product's copyright was registered in the U.S. within three months of publication), and even if not, they just have to make the defendant incur attorney's fees.

  19. When breaking the law is not an option by tepples · · Score: 1

    Getting them illegally is not an option if you as a publisher want to be able to distribute copies of your old games along with a working emulator. Some emulators (especially of the Game Boy Advance) have worked around this by reimplementing all the BIOS calls in native code, thus running the BIOS in high-level emulation.

  20. You have to target AMD and NV either way by tepples · · Score: 1

    Or you can target a console. Even if the console uses OpenGL to expose the GPU, you're targeting a single model

    How so? You have to target both AMD and NVIDIA and possibly Intel when you develop for PC. You also have to target both AMD (Xbox 360) and NVIDIA (PS3), and possibly really old AMD (Wii) when you develop for consoles.

    1. Re:You have to target AMD and NV either way by Desler · · Score: 1

      Sure, but you only target a single GPU for each console. Not a half dozen generations from each vendor.

    2. Re:You have to target AMD and NV either way by tepples · · Score: 1

      I see your point. But you still need experience in targeting "a half dozen generations from each vendor" before the console makers will let you "target a single GPU for each console" as an authorized developer.

  21. Consoles are plugged into a TV. That's it. by tepples · · Score: 1
    Anonymous Coward wrote:

    Yes, but if they're going to do that, then what's the point of using a console?

    Being next to a TV. Most people, excluding the geek demographic of Slashdot, aren't going to want to connect a "computer" to a TV and plug in gamepads in order to play local multiplayer games.

  22. So, will it run... by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

    On a computer running a 2.2GHz Intel i3 with an nVidia ge-force GT 660 card and 4GB of ram, how good can you get games running?

    I can rn Garry's Mod, or any other source game, at highest setting AND run FRAPS at 60FPS full size without everything becoming laggy and shit [even maps with a lot of water, and all sorts of rendering effects] - if that serves any purpose so far as putting into perspective what it currently CAN run.

    --
    If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
    1. Re:So, will it run... by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      *ge-force GT 630 , my bad - typo.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot