In Brazil, All Vehicles Must Have Radio IDs By 2014

morcego writes "Brazil's National Traffic Council (CNT) published Friday a resolution that institutes the National System of Automatic Vehicle Identification (Siniav). According to the Q&A published (Google translation from Portuguese), only 'visible and public' information will be available (vehicle year or fabrication, make, model, combustible, engine power and license plate number), without any personal information about the owner or registration data. This system will be mandatory for all vehicles (cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc) and should cost vehicle owners approximately R$5 (less than US$3)."

Comments

certainly much simpler than

[gl4ss]

certainly much simpler than spending gazillion dollars on cameras with ocr for the plates, like what's being rolled out in western world.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[gtirloni]

I don't want to disappoint you but Brazil is pretty much in the "western world" too. And it has lots of cameras with license plate reading tech for speeding tickets, etc.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. In the UK, this information is already written on the tax disc on the front of every car. A radio chip would be much cheaper as you'd only need one for the life of the car, plus all of the information is linked to the central database anyway making tax discs mostly worthless.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[SourceFrog]

Why yes, I'm all for more efficient methods for re-creating 1984.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[cheesybagel]

Brazil has high income disparity. They manufacture airplanes (Embraer) but a lot of people live in slums next to the rich people's fenced mansions with high security guards who have to leave their houses in bullet proof cars.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[mister2au]

I see your Wikipedia and raise you 1 Wikipedia ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world

In the contemporary cultural meaning, the Western world includes many countries of Europe as well as many countries of European colonial origin in the Americas and Oceania, such as the United States of America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, etc.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[FunkDup]

a lot of people live in slums next to the rich people's fenced mansions

Sounds a little bit like South Africa, or to some extent the USA.

This article says:

There is no agreed upon definition about what all these nations have in common apart from having a significant population of European descent.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[Anne_Nonymous]

>> high security guards

This is South America after all: "Dude, halt or I'll...um..hey..wow, man, did you ever look at your hand, man?"

Re:certainly much simpler than

[Hadlock]

I have bad news for you, Iran is a modern country, regardless to what you're shown on TV. Their government may be oppressive and backwards, but the country itself is very modern. I travelled 2000 miles by bus through Brazil, and many parts of Brazil are still richer than America's Gulf Coast (Biloxi, Gulfport, etc). The GDP says one thing, but wondering through the capital cities at night tells another. The rural parts of many countries do need to catch up though.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[MagusSlurpy]

I think he was implying that those countries aren't "western."

On the other hand, I think they have cities that at least appear that "appear western."

Re:certainly much simpler than

[craigminah]

...and it will improve the accuracy of drone strikes as well.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[zill]

Why yes, I'm all for more efficient methods for re-creating Brazil.

FTFY

Re:certainly much simpler than

[Vladius]

The Mississippi Gulf Coast was ignored in the aftermath of Katrina because of New Orleans, even though Bay St Louis is where the eye came ashore.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[TheRaven64]

You have to be pretty close to see that a car has no tax disk. They make them a different colour every year, so it's about as easy to see if one has expired too (although, there's some significant overlap, so the colour just means that you need a closer look). If you're close enough to see the tax disk, you're almost certainly close enough to wave an RFID reader at the car.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[mister2au]

I know you're being funny and I got a chuckle out of it ... but just fyi:

South American has the lowest levels of opiates use of any region in the world, cocaine at about half the rate of first-world countries and cannabis lower that all areas except SE Asia.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[murdocj]

don't recall the last time I saw any of my neighbors in a bullet proof car in the USA... care to elaborate?

Re:certainly much simpler than

[mwvdlee]

I know you're being funny and I got a chuckle out of it ... but just fyi:

South American has the lowest levels of opiates use of any region in the world, cocaine at about half the rate of first-world countries and cannabis lower that all areas except SE Asia.

http://geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Per-Capita-Opiate-Use-Map.jpg
It would seem Africa and East Asia use less opiates on average, thanks to Brazil.
Perhaps even Australia may use less opiates on average.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_prevalence_of_opiates_use, I looked up my own country, the Netherlands, where laws on opiate usage is somewhat more lenient than most countries in the world; about halfway down and much less than highly anti-drug countries such as the US. What does that tell you? Either enforcement is less in the US (22% of inmates will tell you otherwise; http://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/) or legalizing drugs actually lessens drug use (taking drugs is not rebelious and anti-establishment if you can legally do so).

Re:certainly much simpler than

[__aaltlg1547]

By any reasonable definition Brazil is western. European language, Christian major religions, colonized from the east by people from Europe. IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE. Western does not mean "wealthy."

Re:certainly much simpler than

[murdocj]

Do you live in a slum?

I had no idea the people in slums could afford bullet proof cars.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[__aaltlg1547]

Name a time in American history when the Mississippi gulf coast was not ignored.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[fnj]

Um, cocaine is not an opiate.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[realityimpaired]

They were considered 1st world nations, during the cold war....

Re:certainly much simpler than

[mister2au]

I think i know another part to the answer to that and it is alternate drugs.

Australia is low on opiates but VERY high on cannabis and amphetamines (particularly ecstasy) ... in our case (being an isolated island) it's all about what it easy to import which also drives costs - I guess also partly about law enforcement which cocaine/heroin is in a different class to ecstasy.

I'd guess Netherlands is probably a little the same with a higher proportion of recreational drugs and less hard drugs ... but no doubt social forces (including laws) make a huge difference.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[mister2au]

Um, cocaine is not an opiate.

Correct - that why I mentioned opiate, cocaine and cannabis separately.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[_Sharp'r_]

Lastpass is an RFID issued for toll road payments along the U.S. east coast. Makes it so they can just deduct your toll from an account instead of having to stop at a boothe.

Updating the summary: "This system will be mandatory for all vehicles (cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc) and should cost vehicle owners approximately R$5 (less than US$3) and their privacy."

Re:certainly much simpler than

[MagusSlurpy]

Don't forget industrial pollution!

Re:certainly much simpler than

[__aaltlg1547]

That's not western any more than it's eastern. It's just the way people are.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[CaptQuark]

I can certainly see a market for RF jammers for this. Unless they set up cameras at the same location at the readers, who can say which vehicle that passed by had the jammer?

Most likely they would never know you didn't spew your digital ID without some sort of visual check at the same time. And because the RFID tag supposed to eliminate the need for the cameras, how can they correlate the car with the missing RFID response? If anyone was using a jammer, I suppose they would just turn it off when passing the cameras anyway.

Re:certainly much simpler than

[HArchH]

Your GDP ranking does not determine if you are "first world", "second world", or "third world". It has as much to do with the quality of the infrastructure and the social and political climate. It might have to do with the level of education (or the mean and median grade achievement level), or it might have to do with the general level of literacy.

Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[betterprimate]

Hm. An RFID chip to be installed on the windshield in Brazilian heat? Surely, nothing could go wrong.

Re:Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[jamesh]

we have tollway rfid devices in Australia that sit pretty much in the hottest part of the cabin, and they do just fine for the lifetime of the battery (~5-10 years). Are you seriously suggesting that they haven't thought of this??

Re:Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[betterprimate]

We're not talk about the "hottest part of the cabin". From the TFA, the requirements are that all cars must have an rfid in the windshield. We are not talking also about tollway devices where one can simply replace it if it malfunctions. The purpose of these devices are to track stolen cars and unclaimed loads. Making this mandatory is to assume that the chip will never malfunction. And yes, I'm seriously suggesting they haven't thoroughly thought out the repercussions fully just as they have not thoroughly thought out the mandate... else this wouldn't warrant discussion.

Re:Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[betterprimate]

Hate to burst your bubble, but RFID chips have already been installed on the windshields of many cars over here in Brazil, for several years. They are automated toll charging chips that allow you to cross tollbooths without stopping. AND THEY WORK JUST FINE.

The difference is that the existing system is optional. This new one will be mandatory.

Have they ever malfunctioned?

Re:Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[Anne Thwacks]

The purpose of these devices are to track stolen cars and unclaimed loads

And there was I thinking the purpose was to facilitate Mafia hits on rival drug lords. My bad.

Re:Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[betterprimate]

The purpose of these devices are to track stolen cars and unclaimed loads

And there was I thinking the purpose was to facilitate Mafia hits on rival drug lords. My bad.

In Brazil, those two statements are redundant. ;)

Re:Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[__aaltlg1547]

Why should they have batteries? Passive transponders fill the bill.

Re:Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[jamesh]

Why should they have batteries? Passive transponders fill the bill.

I'm not sure about the proposed rfid devices in Brazil. The ones we use in Australia (called e-Tag) also beep (one beep = okay, two beeps = funds low, etc) which requires a battery. An active transponder is much more likely to reliably transmit a signal back from the distance required too (our readers are a significant distance above the road to allow for high vehicles etc), with multiple vehicles being scanned at once.

If in Brazil they are using handheld readers that work at close range then yes, batteries would not be required.

IMHO, even in Australia having to have an e-Tag seems kind of stupid. Pretty much everyone has a cell phone, and number plate rules are fairly strict in terms of policing obscured number plates, so why not just read number plates and send an SMS if funds on the account are low. I'm sure you'll get the occasional person who has cleverly obscured their number plate from the camera angles used, but then those people wouldn't have an e-Tag anyway.

Re:Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[__aaltlg1547]

Because cameras with enough resolution to reliably read license plates in the field are a heck of a lot more expensive than single-channel radios. I can build a receiver that can do the job for under $20 in mass production. I know because I've done it.

Re:Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[jamesh]

Because cameras with enough resolution to reliably read license plates in the field are a heck of a lot more expensive than single-channel radios. I can build a receiver that can do the job for under $20 in mass production. I know because I've done it.

Are the cameras more expensive than a million $20 transponders though? What about 10 million?

The other thing I didn't mention is that they already have the cameras set up to catch infringers, and out-of-towners are allowed to get a "day pass" for their occasional trip to the city, which doesn't require a transponder. If your transponder doesn't respond (eg you left it in the glove box or in another car) then the number plate recognition ensures that you still get billed, plus an extra $1 per toll point for the convenience.

Re:Voluntary... when the chip breaks.

[jaymemaurice]

We have a system in the UAE called Salik. There is a partial toll road in Dubai... it has 4 gates (that you can go arround if you plan your trip) on a long stretch of road that runs along the coast connecting the western emirates. It works via a passive RFID sticker. If you go through a gate without a working sticker, it is ~$60 fine. Crossing of the gates are ~$1 for the entire trip (ie, if you cross more then one gate, in order, you are not billed more). The gates are crossed at highway speed (120km/h) and are not known to fail even when crossed at high speed. The RFID sticker is available cheaply so EVERY car in the UAE seems to have one. The sticker is linked to the vehicle registration. It appears there are RFID readers various places in the city which are not toll roads. I do not know of anyone getting any speeding tickets calculated from average speed between gates or RFID readers, but I would be surprised if the data isn't used by national security or police. They do not seem to fail.

for what purpose?

[dutchwhizzman]

Why would you want such a thing? Humans can't read it and it sounds like criminals can easily swap tags or fake tags if they want to disguise themselves. License plates at least gave you the option to report a driver that caused an accident. At best, this is useful for statistics about vehicle usage, not for individual tracking, taxing or that sort of thing.

Re:for what purpose?

[Anonymous Coward]

A national toll road system can be setup now. Tolls can be made billable to the vehicle OWNER since they have the license plate number..

Re:for what purpose?

[Havenwar]

This is a government project we're talking about here. Don't expect them to hand you the lube.

Re:for what purpose?

[gl4ss]

A national toll road system with tags that could be easily swapped or faked (as suggested by dutchwhizzman)??? That would be akin to a 50 meter radius wireless credit card with no authentication code. Bad idea.

well, if you're willing to drive around with fake plates. I suppose plenty of people in brazil are doing just that though..

Re:for what purpose?

[richy freeway]

Sort of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge

Re:for what purpose?

[Morth]

Stockholm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_congestion_tax (will also be introduced in Gothenburg)

Re:for what purpose?

[bky1701]

The wonderful state of NC (sarcasm) opened a plate-recognition toll road here about a year ago.

Re:for what purpose?

[Tom]

Why would you want such a thing?

Maybe you should have read TFA? It contains a section conveniently titled "What are the uses of the system?"

Re:for what purpose?

[cowboy76Spain]

A national toll road system with tags that could be easily swapped or faked (as suggested by dutchwhizzman)??? That would be akin to a 50 meter radius wireless credit card with no authentication code. Bad idea.

well, if you're willing to drive around with fake plates. I suppose plenty of people in brazil are doing just that though..

Could you provide some explanation of your comment? Maybe it was just me, but it sounded a lot like "they are poor so most of them must be criminals" (or maybe it was "they live south of the border".

I mean, do you have any data (reports, statistics, even some news article or even anecdotal evidence) to support your sentence? Any explanation of why "plenty of people" are willing to take the effort of swapping plates and risk of getting caught?

Re:for what purpose?

[dj245]

I can imagine it would help with driverless or computer-driven cars. It makes collision avoidance easier when moving objects you are likely to hit are broadcasting a signal you can detect. This doesn't have speed or position information, but a computer could at least detect them and then start looking harder for "large truck, diesel powered" using other collision detection methods.

Its a national standard so you only need 1 radio receiver for all cars. I don't know how the signal is set up, but maybe it could be expanded (like ODB-II) to include other information like position/speed.

Re:for what purpose?

[realityimpaired]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_407

Doesn't work 100% of the time, but works pretty well.Only time it's failed to pick up my car was when the license plate was covered in snow after being parked at a hotel for 2 weeks. They use a combination of transponders (for regular travellers), and optical recognition of license plates for one-off uses.

Re:for what purpose?

[alexgieg]

If you're going to put tolls on the entire country, just do it in a much cheaper fashion - put a tax on gas. Far cheaper to implement, and doesn't have the privacy implications.

Ah, but that's the point: here in Brazil we already have tax on gas: roughly 50% of the end price. And on the vehicles themselves: also about 50% of the end price (yep, if a model is sold here and in the US, ours is priced at roughly twice its US counterpart). And tolls on privately built roads (there was a promise back when those were introduced that it would lead to decreased taxes on gas -- it didn't happen, evidently). Now all that remains is to put tolls on every other street, so it's all covered (there's a promise private road tolls will be replaced by the per distance automatic one -- I'm not holding my breath). But just ask someone who's visited us what they think of our roads, streets etc. To sum it up: that money hasn't gone where it should.

That's Brazil.

Re:for what purpose?

[redneckmother]

This is a government project we're talking about here. Don't expect them to hand you the lube.

No, the lube is included, but contains sand.

License plate /= registration data?

[LaZZaR]

This means you are trackable.

Re:License plate /= registration data?

[gtirloni]

Not exactly 100% efficient since the _car_ is trackable but I get the point. Same thing with your cellphone though.

Re:License plate /= registration data?

[Cornwallis]

Bingo. All the previous posters are wrong. This is the *only* purpose.

Re:License plate /= registration data?

[Some Guy]

I'm confused.

      License plate /= registration data

How do you divide a license plate by registration data? (And you're missing a semicolon, so it won't compile anyways.)

Re:License plate /= registration data?

[cowboy76Spain]

It means that if someone sets a private "listening" station, they will get no more data that they could have get just looking at the car.

Only the people with access to the vehicles registration database(i.e. the state) could make a match with additional info (owner, address, and so on).

Re:License plate /= registration data?

[RubberDogBone]

Correct. And it is the same for any typical RFID -many of which raise alarms and whatnot. If you are only able to READ the tag, then you gain no more information than if you physically put eyes on the object and eyeballed the barcode.

That is pretty much all you can do unless you have access to the database.

And if you don't, then scanning the barcode or RFID or vehicle RFID is not overly useful or risky to privacy. Maybe you can gather some data about passing traffic or something and key a billboard to flash one kind of add to a Chevy and another ad to a Lexus. But it's nothing that could not also be gained by putting someone on the billboard with a pair of binoculars and a way (laptop, switch, whatever) to change the ads. Except, this way there's nobody peering into the cars and looking down my fictional girlfriend's shirt.

She would like that, if she existed.

Besides that, a lot of people are actually proud of the car they drive, either because they are proud, or because they are stuck with it. So making a way to broadcast "I own a GD LEXUS! LEXUS!" could be sold as a feature. New from Lexus, automatic bragging!

For people

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it will not be long before it will be mandatory for persons as well here (Netherlands).
They are now putting fingerprints and other biometric parameters in your passport and identity card, and it is mandatory to carry it whenever you are outdoors.
The next step will be to implant the RFID chip.
It is now being tested with pet animals, next will probably be farm animals, and when this does not cause any obvious health problems you will be required to have a chip implanted with your identifying information.

All for the sake of the war on terrorism.

Re:For people

[cheesybagel]

I doubt implants will be common. While it is common to brand cattle you do not see people getting branded even in more autocratic or totalitarian regimes. Same thing applies to these sorts of implants.

Re:For people

[aliquis]

You better let a government agency pick up your kids for you. Because damn if you go pick them up at the kindergarten yourself!

Re:For people

[volmtech]

Have you seen the amount of hardware most young people have implanted in various and tender parts of their bodies? If you can stick a stud in your tongue or navel a small RFID in your forearm will be nothing.

Re:For people

[girlintraining]

All for the sake of the war on terrorism.

Well, even if it were possible for the government to monitor everyone's whereabouts, 24/7/365.249, it still wouldn't prevent terrorism. It would, however, make everyone a criminal and selective enforcement would become the norm, thus creating new classes of citizens; those who can afford to buy their way out of trouble, and those who can't. Russia was ahead of the curve on this... they didn't need a tracking system for that.

Required?

[Anonymous Coward]

What a CNT of a requirement.

Johnny Mnemonic was right in one area

[Anonymous Coward]

Johnny Mnemonic: Yeah, the Black Shakes. What causes it?
Spider: What causes it?
[points to various pieces of equipment throughout the room]
Spider: This causes it! This causes it! This causes it! Information overload! All the electronics around you poisoning the airwaves. Technological fucking civilization. But we still have all this shit, because we can't live without it. Let me do my work.
- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113481/quotes

Re:Johnny Mnemonic was right in one area

[MagusSlurpy]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone seriously quote that film before.

Suspicious Timing for TFA release

[betterprimate]

Bloomberg just released an article relating to car theft in Brazil: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-10/brazil-wonders-why-its-rich-kids-are-so-good-at-stealing-cars.html So who's the manufacturer?

Re:Suspicious Timing for TFA release

[betterprimate]

Oh, this has everything to do with it: http://www.bloomberg.com/pressroom/bloomberg-hosts-latin-america-investing-conference/ Form your own opinions or continue to connect the dots. Brazil is, however, seeing an influx of foreign investments that are unadulterated and entirely unregulated. This is another unnecessary piece of legislation that infringes upon people's privacy just to sell an investor's product to the masses.

Most people don't care

[tmcb]

Well, car thefts are quite frequent in some Brazilian cities, so it's not surprise that most people won't see anything wrong on that apart from paying 5 bucks for the thing themselves. Some people will even see this as a good thing; well, it's an extremely cheap car tracking service!

There were really few contrary opinions to the resolution. Mr. Raul Jungmann, national representative, filed a request for its suspension, alluding to privacy concerns, but no final solution was given to the matter since 2007. It had no big repercussion on media, too. That's how things work in Brazil: these stuff get approved with enough antecedence, but become news just over the deadline. I can't say if it's intentional, but it really seems so.

Re:Most people don't care

[maxwell demon]

Of course the car thieves will have no way to just remove that chip on stolen cars ...

Re:Most people don't care

[tmcb]

Oh, of course they can't do that in any way! It would be a crime!

Re:Most people don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

The police cars will have receivers for those trackers, so, if a policeman sees a car that doesnt emit rf sinal or wich emits the wrong plate number, "bingo, this is a stealed car, lets stop it".

Re:Most people don't care

[betterprimate]

The police cars will have receivers for those trackers, so, if a policeman sees a car that doesnt emit rf sinal or wich emits the wrong plate number, "bingo, this is a stealed car, lets stop it".

My passport is supposed to give of an rf signal too. That was until my fat ass sat on it.

Re:Most people don't care

[volmtech]

Sensor and camera at every intersection. Car pulls into warehouse, identical car with unregistered chip pulls out, cops pull it over before it goes ten blocks. If a $400 phone can lead police to the robbers house a $20000 car should be able to.

Re:Most people don't care

[betterprimate]

The police cars will have receivers for those trackers, so, if a policeman sees a car that doesnt emit rf sinal or wich emits the wrong plate number, "bingo, this is a stealed car, lets stop it".

My passport is supposed to give of an rf signal too. That was until my fat ass sat on it.

This is Brazil, no fat asses!

(Also, it's in a car, they're usually more durable than a passport.)

I thought Brazil was famous for fat asses.

The police cars will have receivers for those trackers, so, if a policeman sees a car that doesnt emit rf sinal or wich emits the wrong plate number, "bingo, this is a stealed car, lets stop it".

My passport is supposed to give of an rf signal too. That was until my fat ass sat on it.

This is Brazil, no fat asses!

(Also, it's in a car, they're usually more durable than a passport.)

I thought Brazil was famous for fat asses.

Plump, not fat. See People of Walmart if you're not clear on the distinction.

Can I find it on youporn.com?

Re:Most people don't care

[Anne Thwacks]

it's in a car, they're usually more durable than a passport

You obviously have not seen an American sit on a car!

Re:Most people don't care

[maxwell demon]

Of course, there's no way to change the plate at the same time as the chip.

Re:Most people don't care

[DerekLyons]

Of course the car thieves will have no way to just remove that chip on stolen cars ...

That depends on the type of thief doesn't it? Dumb ass thieves, the same kind that don't change out license plates won't change out chips either. Smarter thieves however, will.

let me say

[Errtu76]

Boa sorte!

Financial trickery

[goldgin]

I bet a cousin of a curtain politician has a company with thousands of those devices preordered and in stock. I also bet that there are only a few brands of these devices allowed in the brasilian market, those brands already exclusive to curtain cousins of active politicians. And the show must go on...

Re:Financial trickery

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely true, but is there really such a big difference between company-owned-by-the-cousin-of-politician (Brasil) and company-that-promised-cushy-consulting-job-to-politician-after-he-retires (USA)?

Don't kid yourself. Democracy today is totally corrupt everywhere, it's just that the corruption in the US is on much larger, more industrial scale than the family-oriented nepotism of Latin America.

Re:Financial trickery

[goldgin]

Hmm it seems Brasil needs to upgrade their Corruption v1.1 software to USA's model, Corruption v2.0. It's funny that so few people spot the trick... and so much more want into the deal when they find out about it. It so seems that the only solution for mankind is in evolution, a new breed of mankind that is lacking the ability to lie and cheat their way to success. Thankfully this is already happening, with statistics showing a new generation of humans with Aspergers syndrome and similar disorders on the rise, people that make decisions using common sense and logic. This is of course debatable and fictionary but that's all hope I have left for humanity.

Re:Financial trickery

[betterprimate]

The company is Kapsch.

Re:Like Mobile Phones

[cheros]

They do this already with ANR (Automatic Number plate Recognition)..

let's hope it helps the public

[poetmatt]

let's hope they do things like let people store medical information on these radio ID's, not just things that make it easier to collect money.
If someone were to get in an accident but be able to indicate they're a hemophiliac, for example.

Re:let's hope it helps the public

[__aaltlg1547]

That's exactly the kind of info you don't want on your car. That should be on a bracelet on your person. Putting only info useful for tax and tolls means it never had to be rewritten and it's restricted yo stuff that's already publicly viewable. You have to reference the registration database to come up with private information about the owners.

Re:let's hope it helps the public

[poetmatt]

Hrm? If I had relevant medical information that may affect how I need to be treated for emergencies I'd like that information to be posted everywhere possible . I'd rather minimize the chance that I die due to something stupid.

That's not the same as "I have nothing to hide" but having medical information tied to accident information which can easily be obtained would make sense.

So it's RFID then.

[cheros]

I can see RFID work in such an application, as long as they are write-once. Otherwise I'd give it a week before everyone is Spartacus :).

RFIDs are actually more practical than ANR - less horsepower required to read, and no games with "accidentally" leaving mud on the plates (however, if they cannot be read very quickly there may be an issue). However, I can only see this work with vehicle attached RFID - license RFID should be separate or you'll have to leave the chip open to reprogramming, which is IMHO where the problems hide here (as above :).

I was actually waiting for something like this to happen - vehicle ID hasn't seen progress since VINs. However, as always I'd be worried about privacy implications - with ANR there is already enough discussion.

Re:So it's RFID then.

[cowboy76Spain]

You only have to provide the cops with a reader. At any police control, check if the data from the radio checks the one you can see (after all, all the data will be public/visible, according to TFS). If it does not match, fine/inmovilize the vehicle/whatever.

Re:So it's RFID then.

[Gordonjcp]

It's considerably less hassle than ANPR, because ANPR only tells you the car's registration number. Reading the article, this won't hold the registration (which you probably don't care about) but will hold the VIN and a certain amount of technical data. If you used ANPR you'd have to pull all that down from a database somewhere.

Re:So it's RFID then.

[cheros]

Fine, maybe, but immobilise?

Such radio signals MUST be read-only. *Any* ability to influence a car from a distance is *extremely* bad news and should not even be considered. It's bad enough that it is already possible today with some vehicles..

I would not even like to *near* a vehicle that can be remotely shut down, let alone inside it.

Re:So it's RFID then.

[cowboy76Spain]

Neither me or the post talks about remotely controlling vehicles. I meant "immobilize" in the old sense of having the driver stop, getting the keys, etc., as a way of discouraging tampering with the device (as an alternative to fines).

Re:So it's RFID then.

[cheros]

Ah, misunderstanding. I obviously have too much blood in my caffeine :).

I am retard.

[betterprimate]

I am the retard who is telling you to invest in Kapsch who creates the infallible E-Z Pass.

Kapsch it is.

[betterprimate]

Three or four articles and press releases have been released in the past twelve hours. I deduct that Kapsch (the same producer of the failed E-Z Pass) is going to be producing these devices for the Brazilian government. ( See: http://www.kapsch.net/en/KapschGroup/press/articles/files/2012/PR_KTC_First_order_for_delivery_of_on-board_units_from_Brazil_EN.pdf posted 13 hours ago ). Their stock is down in case anyone is interested. Articles are being simultaneously released by Bloomberg. All articles released within a four hour difference.

Workaround.

[couchslug]

Clone it, zap the original, leave hidden clone in car for daily tracking.

Spoof different RFID and keep in Faraday wrap.

Swap as desired.

Destined for Problems

[betterprimate]

The chips will be supplied by Kapsch ( http://www.kapsch.net/en/KapschGroup/press/articles/Pages/ktc_120810_pr.aspx ). These chips/devices are similar to the E-Z Pass in the NorthEast U.S. They are notorious for malfunctioning... http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-17/toll-poaching-ezpass/55038948/1 http://www.newstribune.com/news/2012/jun/28/e-z-pass-not-always-so-easy/ http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/49044786.html http://consumerist.com/2007/07/e-zpass-charge-you-fee-when-it-malfunctions.html The difference is that these are mandatory. If they do malfunction, how would it affect an innocent individual?

Helpful for kidnappers and terrorists...

[pubwvj]

Identifying people like this, and it does identify people, should be very helpful for kidnappers and terrorists. Now they'll be able to setup automated booby traps.

Re:Helpful for kidnappers and terrorists...

[ralphm]

Yeah, that's really hard to do with a camera and some OCR. Oh, wait.

And?

[yuje]

So having poor people automatically disqualifies a country in the geographic west, speaking a western language, believing in a western religion, ruled by a western style democratic government, and having a population of mostly white people from being Western? Or does West mean only rich Anglo-Saxon countries? I suppose it's far easier to assert Western superiority by including only the successful countries in the definition.

Re:And?

[lister king of smeg]

no we grudgingly accept the french to. oh and the italians because they have great food.

Re:And?

[Jade_Wayfarer]

Do not forget zee Germans! Why do you always forget Germans? You still mad for zis stupid little war half-century ago?

Big brother

[fabrica64]

Big brother's coming! They already tried two years ago to put this on all cars, then the law vanished... Now they're trying again... let's see if they'll be able to overcome privacy and "distribution" problems...

Re:Are you idiots aware there is some news

[Gordonjcp]

What's a Romney/Ryan?

We already lost privacy thanks to our cellphones.

[BadgerRush]

There will be no additional loss of privacy, most Brazilians (like most of the world population) can already be tracked by their cellphones (Brazilians have 1.1 mobiles per person). The fact that we now can be also tracked by our cars does not make a difference.

Avoiding the implementation of technology will not guaranty privacy, legislating how it can be used will.

Stalking for fun and profit

[WaffleMonster]

I never understood the no personally identifiable information meme. Broadcasting a unique ID becomes quite personal when the data is aggregated and mined. Even if the IDs are themselves encrypted in a way that prevents unique discrimination without a key that same key or group thereof would need to be hidden in hardware in all other vechicles making compromise of all or parts of the system assured. Further since this system is being guarded by secrecy and NDAs, not subject to public scruitny of professionals its security properties will undoubtably suck.

Two observations:

Since these devices will be mandatory and everyone will have one and know about the system why would anyone assume a criminal would not immediatly destroy or disable the device upon taking a joyride in your vechicle or otherwise escaping authorities due to prior criminal activity? The standard you would be surprised at how stupid people are defense only goes soo far.

The second and more serious issue is that some people..unfortunatly way too many live in constant fear of injury or death from crazed x's and assorted stalker psychos. This system puts everyone in this category at unecessary increased risk.

Further what happens when someone decides to start attaching the receipt of an ID to an explosive trigger?