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Will Developers Finally Start Coding On the iPad?
An anonymous reader writes "It's not so long since Apple silently dropped the restriction about iOS apps for programming — iPad owners can now code in Lua with Codea or with Python for iOS. Yesterday, a new app called Kodiak PHP brought another IDE to the iPad, this time for PHP coders. Pandodaily's Nathaniel Mott describes it as a full-blooded software development tool with comparison to other iOS apps. Cult of Mac reports that the demise of the Mac might be closer than we think, but are developers really ready to use the on-screen keyboard to do some serious work?"
my iconia tablet + bluetooth keyboard is all I carry around these days. Plenty of good ide's, can host a webserver on the tablet, and so on and so on.
Whatever, ipads. . lol
No.
..but if they were serious enough about coding on a tablet, there are plenty of portable hardware keyboards that can be connected to it.
But really, the IDE apps mentioned don't seem to allow development of actual iOS apps on the device, unlike https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui&hl=en
Speaking for my people, No.
or when the rest of you see one of these stories predicting about the demise of desktops, laptops and every other device with a precise user interface and non-negligible computing capacity, do you just want to shoot yourself?
* It fits in my purse.
But what keeps me using a computer over a tablet, at least so far, as the ease of use — navigation, switching between browser tabs or between applications, ability to split screen and have documents side by side and so on. My coding is minimal, but I do a huge amount of research and writing up my thoughts, and, whilst a tablet has worked its way into my life despite me initially pooh-poohing them as pretty much pointless for the way I tend(ed) to use computers, I cannot see it replacing a computer for the time being.
Why the hell would I want to target a platform that limits devs to basically writing toys (no system level apps, no "arbitrary code execution", no duplication of "useful" apps that would compete with Apple-flavored)?
And then, even if I did have a great idea for the next "Angry Birds"... Why the hell would I want to target a platform known for giving devs the boot for reasons ranging from "editorial" to "petty" to "borderline illegal vindictive"?
Thanks, but no thanks. I'll target iDevices as soon as they tear down the wall around the garden, and not before.
I wouldn't even use a MacBook Pro keyboard for coding more than a few minutes. Nor would I code on that kind of screen size. Similarly, if I'm writing an email longer than a few sentences, I put my iPad down and reach for the laptop...
Let's face it, when writing a significant app you do a lot of typing. So. Are the iPad's keys roughly the size of a normal keyboard's? That size is significant because it's a comfortable size for human fingers. Much larger and it's awkward to reach between keys, while much smaller and it's awkward to hit just the key you want. Does the iPad's screen allow for keys to be depressed and provide gradual resistance? Those mechanical aspects are important because they provide tactile feedback and avoid having the typist hammering the tips of their fingers on a solid surface (which hurts after a while). Can I keep the iPad's on-screen keyboard only slightly inclined (so it's in line with the plane my fingers occupy while typing) while angling it's display 45 degrees or more up (so it's perpendicular to my line of vision)? That's so I can type comfortably without having to crane my neck or maintain an uncomfortable position to see the screen clearly. As far as I can tell the answer to all of those is "Not without external devices.". So if I'm going to tie myself down to a stand to hold the iPad itself plus a big keyboard and mouse to do my typing on, why wouldn't I go for the conventional desktop with it's larger monitors and more horsepower so I can run builds faster?
Unless coding applications are much much improved from general text input applications, not likely is my answer.
I can barely be hassled "typing" any more than 3-4 sentence email on an ipad before I get annoyed. In addition to the difficulty of typing, the lack of cursor control (touching to move the cursor is just down to luck as to where exactly it goes) means the entire experience is a retrograde step. Fine for 140 character input, useless if you want to type any lengthy piece of text.
Tablets are great for some things (content consumption primary amongst them). But honestly, any time I am told that tablets represent a "post-pc" world for content creation (whether professional coding, or simple word processing), I just laugh.
A couple of years ago I finally got an external monitor for my work PC that had more pixels than the Sun 3 I'd used back in the 1980s. (We mainly worked with laptops, and our IT department always thought that having more color depth was more important than more pixels, even though most of us work with text and simple graphics and 16-bit color was plenty. Some years they also thought portability was important, which was nice of them, but had the price of only getting 1024x768.)
Back when I was younger, 1280x1024 pixels was annoyingly small to do development work in, because it limits how much text you could fit on a screen. Now that I need reading glasses, I not only want more pixels than that, but I want a bigger screen to put them on, and holding the latest generation iPad/MacBook close to my face just means typing is awkward.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
See Also: Netbook
Seriously. Just no. Journalists--stop it. Stop it already.
I wonder what will happen when all the hype dies down and people actually use their tablet for more than casual BS. Right now it's The New Shiny (TM). But when the world over finally realizes it's collecting dust, will they buy another?
My guess--only the $200 tablets like the Nexus 7 will survive. Though the only thing that has peaked my interest would be *laptops* or convertible tablets (like that new Sony one with a slide out KB) with Win 8. Because as it stands now, unless you attach a mouse or use the nipple on the Thinkpads, Trackpads are quite possibly the worst thing ever to use.*
With Win 8 on a touch-screen laptop, I could for serious work use the mouse--but for casual stuff, using the touch-screen on a laptop would be a god-send. And no, I don't want iOS or even my preference--Android. I want a REAL computer to do REAL things. Like the simple act of being able to load SouthParkStudios.com or browse a company's job board.
* And no, don't listen to what the world's most biased site, the Verge says--the Mac's trackpads are not worth switching entire computers, ecosystems, or preferences for.
Look, I'm an iOS & web developer. I use an iPad all day long, often off-site. If anybody is the target market for this, it's me. And I think developing on an iPad is an awful idea. It's a case of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". Is it possible to pull up a code editor on the iPad? Of course. But that doesn't make it a better choice than, well, just about any other option. The only redeeming aspect of this is if you already have an iPad with you, it's better than nothing at all. But really, how often is it that you need to do some coding unexpectedly and you only have your iPad with you? This is what laptops are for.
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
True. For other companies. So normally I would agree with you.
But this is Apple. They don't care about developers. They don't care about users. It's their way, or the highway.
But of course the media will always put, at the end of the article, "but Apple will have it in the next version!" as they always do. Even though they don't. Yet they never do this for any other company
No.
Next up: "Does Betteridge's law ever work?"
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Is there any reason to think that the situation is going to change? I have seen Apple become increasingly restrictive about their products over the past few years; if anything, I have to wonder how long it will be before the iOS MacBook line comes out, so that only Apple's highest-end systems will allow people to write software (and even then, for a fee). What reason does Apple have to loosen the restrictions on the iOS software ecosystem, when they are making so much money?
Palm trees and 8
But this is Apple. They don't care about developers. They don't care about users. It's their way, or San Jose's courthouse.
There. Fixed that for you.
Not until there is an Emacs version available from the App Store.
Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
I do a lot of PHP coding, so I've been kind of waiting for something like that, thanks for the link.
That said, there is no way in any of the seven hells that I would do my day-to-day coding on my iPad. Try writing a few thousand characters on it, in a non-linear form, and you'll understand why.
What I definitely would love is an editor that I can use for some quick fixes or updates while I'm on the road. That way the testers can get crunching already and I might be able to send it live when I get home.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Until you can chain apps together so as to get real work done w/o being limited by what an app developer has chosen to do, the iPad is a very limited tool.
We need AppleScript, support for it in apps, and we need a HyperCard replacement (why not allow Runtime Revolution, the nicest HyperCard clone I know of to run?)
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
There's no reason apple couldn't write an iOS IDE for the iPad
Except that it would violate their own terms of service, and that it would be a complete 180 for them in terms of their recent behavior. There is also no reason that Apple couldn't remove the restrictions on iOS and allow anyone to write software for it -- but no sane person can think that is going to happen.
You seem to think Apple has some kind of nonsensical vendetta agains developers
No, they just want developers to pay them for the privilege of writing software for Apple products. See, for example, the $99/year fee for permission to write iOS applications.
they only charge $100 per year to be a part of their developer program
If you do not pay, nobody can run your iOS software. You make it seem like developers are paying Apple because they like the service; in reality, they are paying Apple because the only other way to distribute iOS software is in a legal grey area.
which allows you to submit apps for approval
Or to have your application rejected because it might offend some people:
http://www.juggleware.com/blog/2008/09/steve-jobs-writes-back/
You seem to be taking that and extrapolating it to a world where Apple actively works to prevent software development on their platform
No, I said that Apple would require people to buy a high-end laptop or workstation, and that they would charge a yearly fee to develop software using that system. Which is only one or two steps away from the situation we have today: the development tools are only available for Mac OS X, you have to pay Apple to sign your software or nobody can run it, and Apple is creating more laptops that are not user serviceable. It makes sense for them, because this model for iOS has basically turned them into the most valuable company in the entire world. Why would they even stop doing something so profitable?
the apps are such a large part of their product's appeal.
Apps created by professional developers who use expensive workstations and have little problem paying Apple are part of the appeal. It is rare for an individual developer to make a popular iOS app; we are not talking about the Ubuntu repositories, we are talking about a store designed by and for corporate developers.
At no point did I say people would be forbidden from writing software for Apple devices, all I said is that users will not have such freedom; you will need to pay for the privilege.
Palm trees and 8
I love how some of the comments are of the vein, "No way! How can I code without an IDE and a debugger and my 3 massive monitors and 16-core processor? What a joke!" I've coded on the console, in vi or emacs. If people couldn't write software without modern amenities, we'd never have had the modern amenities.
The reason why we won't be coding on the iPad for quite a while to come is because that's not what Apple wants you to use it for. Light work, maybe, but it's mostly a consumption device, not a creation device. Besides, if you're that hot to code on your iPad, you're a lot better off coding remotely through SSH on a machine with that 16-core processor and 8GB of RAM. (Just because I've worked on those old machines doesn't mean it's the best way to do it. :)
Maybe one day, when this kind of device is effectively all anyone wants to use. But for now, Apple would rather that you bought more hardware, not less.
full-blooded software development tool
Yeah, right.
I've taken a lot, and I'm underwhelmed.
No support for git or Subversion, i.e. revision control. Is anyone on this planet seriously still writing software without a revision control system?
No database, not even sqlite. Every non-trivial PHP application I know uses a database. How do you want to work on it if you can't at least fake DB queries?
Direct execution instead of webserver emulation. Very few PHP apps are standalone, the vast majority are written for a web environment. Frameworks and libraries do rely on webserver features for parts of their functionality (such as URL rewriting). Another major thing you can't test.
If they tried selling me this as an IDE for my Mac, I wouldn't even test it even if it were free.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Once you jailbreak an iOS device
That is a non-answer; you are saying that we need to attack our own computers just to write software for them. If "jailbreak" was something you could do using some official, built-in function of the software, maybe this would be worth considering.
there are already ways to develop subsets of iPad applications
This is also a non-answer; being able to develop for a platform means being able to develop for it, not being able to develop some approved set of macros or scripts. My mom used to program her cable receiver to turn on and change to a particular channel at a particular time, so that her VCR could record a show; would you say that she was able to "develop software using her cable box?" How is this any different?
Palm trees and 8
Lua, Python, PHP? All scripting languages, useful for their purpose of quick one-off glue tasks, but not anywhere close to "real programming". Call me when you can write a 300,000 line C++ or Java monster on the thing without ending up with debilitating eye or wrist strain injuries.
But this is Apple. They don't care about developers. They don't care about users. It's their way, or the highway.
OK, I agree that they don't care about developers. Apple treats developers like trash. But Apple does care about users an an aggregate sense, in that their products and marketing are designed to achieve real resonance with hundreds of millions of users and turn them into passionate evangelists. Treating developers badly is actually part of the latter goal. But it is only about money, though. Beyond that, Apple doesn't care about users either.
That is a non-answer
Someone says "You cannot develop on an iPad".
I tell them how they can in fact develop on an iPad.
You call that not an answer. Hmm.
This is also a non-answer; being able to develop for a platform means being able to develop for it
Which Codify allows you to do. Codify allows you to develop for the iPad. Hmm.
My mom used to program her cable receiver to turn on and change to a particular channel at a particular time, so that her VCR could record a show; would you say that she was able to "develop software using her cable box?" How is this any different?
I am not sure how the equivalent of going into Settings and altering a timer is the same thing of writing code capable of arbitrary logic and UI interaction, which again Codify allows you to do.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
But it is only about money, though. Beyond that, Apple doesn't care about users either.
And beyond money, does any business care about its customers?
I can't even get my IDE working on my Mac!
Seriously. Xcode refuses to install. And I can't seem to find just a plain compiler (like GCC) except the one "included" with Xcode, so I can't use any other IDE either (I'd prefer CodeBlocks, as it's what I use on Windows, and will use on Linux as soon as I find the time to install it).
It probably has something to do with me being a few versions "behind" and not willing to shell out $$$ for an official developer's license, but guess what? I can install Visual Studio or GCC on my old XP machine and start coding, no license required.
While the Mac may be a somewhat-attractive option as a desktop, and it even has all the trappings of a good developer's workstation, it downright SUCKS for coding. So I'm not even going to consider coding on their dumbed-down tablet OS until I can get a freaking compiler for their so-called "full-power" desktop OS.
My development machine has 24 GB of RAM, an Intel 8 core 3.4 GHz x64 CPU, and the ability to run multiple applications at once on multiple monitors. One of those applications is a virtual machine where I host running copies of other operating systems. I'm accustomed to waiting maybe 5 or 10 seconds for a compile of my current iOS app to complete, which of course is in my virtual Hackintosh, since I chose an OS other than OS X for my main OS. (Relax, I have an official Mac, I just leave it off a lot of the time.)
So let me get this straight. I can drop down to 1 GB of RAM, and 1 GHz dual core CPU of the ARM architecture, which equates to maybe a 200 MHz x86 or something. I sacrifice freedom of choice of main OS in addition to all my virtualization abilities. I have to stare at one lonely monitor running one lonely app at a time. It will likely take 10 minutes simply to compile small to medium sized apps in Xcode, assuming I have enough memory to compile them.
Maybe someday? That's the best I can say at this point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_Law_of_Headlines
Silence is a state of mime.
Don't be giving Apple ideas.
Jailbreak, and enjoy!
Anyone who even KNOWS what Emacs is can jailbreak an IOS device...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
pitifully small development registration fee
Which is enough to keep people away. If I had an iPad in high school, and no other computer access, I would not have been to afford that fee.
Apple has never required the purchase of a high-end desktop or workstation.
No, they have only required a system running Mac OS X, and now it is starting to look like Mac OS X is going to be locked down as well, or that Apple is going to start installing iOS on their consumer laptop / desktop lines.
Wrong. Outside of games it is in fact common.
Hm...what are the most popular apps in the App Store...
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/311311/20120308/apple-time-popular-ios-apps.htm
Well, if we delete the games from that list, what do we see? Google, Facebook, Skype, Microsoft, and a smaller company called TapTapTap. Where are these popular apps from individual developers? I guess maybe they are just not popular enough to make it into the top ten, but here is the top 100 for free apps, and I am not seeing too many individuals even when games are excluded:
https://www.apple.com/itunes/charts/free-apps/
So, let me reiterate my question for you: where are those individuals who supposedly write all of this popular software?
Users have that freedom if they want it.
If they want to be in the App store they must pay the App Store owner, one way or another.
You are envisioning some odd world were Apple is making tons of money on DEVELOPERS.
No, I am envisioning a world where Apple makes tons of money by controlling their products long after those products were purchased. That would be called "the world as it exists today."
Palm trees and 8
The iPad is terrible.
It's really, really bad. I have one. I use it to watch PBS -- the PBS app isn't very good. Crashes now and then, video flips back in time and then catches up confusingly, doesn't provide good search tools. But it's portable, and I can use it in the can.
I keep trying to do other stuff with the iPad. Everything I try which claims to make the thing do something well turns out to make it do a crappy job of that task.
Art. SSH. Cheap games. Writing. Note management. Fail, fail, fail, fail, fail.
It's all really bad. Badly designed. Impossible to copy and paste. Impossible to select text quickly. Pointing at things doesn't work all that well (your finger is big). So you can get a stylus and a bluetooth keyboard, but you're still left with a crappy MODEL. It's not a good system for actually doing anything.
People keep telling me they love the iPad. That it works for this or that. But I try what they recommend and what the app always does is make the iPad less horrible. But not less horrible enough.
The iPad is light. It's really portable. But it needs a complete overhaul to do anything well.
Android ain't fantastic either, but it's realy not as bad as the iPad.
Developing for smartphones isn't a particularly good way to make money regardless of platform.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
If I had an iPad in high school, and no other computer access
Then you are an edge case who is probably not worth serving. If you are in high school, it's far more likely that you have access to at least the high school's computer lab, the city library's computer lab, a user account on the family PC, or at least an Android tablet owned by another family member on which to run AIDE.
Plenty of people develop on a Mac mini.
Which still increases the price by requiring the purchase of either a second (otherwise unnecessary) computer for $650 or the purchase of a $200 second operating system to run in Boot Camp if you instead decide to make the Mac your primary machine. And you have to replace this computer every four years; otherwise you risk not being able to run the latest Mac OS X. And if you're not on a recent Mac OS X, forget about being able to run the latest Xcode needed to target devices running the latest iOS.
Yeah, and some teenager working on his hobby program late at night might actually want to send his code to other people, so that they can run it and possibly work with him. Do you think that a teenager finds $100 easy to come by?
Sure, iOS and Android will be "fine" without hobbyist teenagers or college students. That does not mean that excluding them is a good thing for users or developers.
Palm trees and 8
OK, great, and the DMCA does not restrict anyone from ripping DVDs, it only prevents people from distributing their method of doing that. That argument is crap and you know it. That argument is a direct attack on open source development (which depends on the ability of others to run your code, including people who are not developers), and it is based on the notion that having Apple approve the software that people install and use is somehow acceptable (and nevermind that they are not just refusing to allow malware, but also any political cartoons, and that developers are at Apple's mercy).
Palm trees and 8
The market is not what gave us PCs
IBM, a participant in the market, gave us PCs. Before that, other participants in the market gave us 8-bit home microcomputers.
No sane person can claim that VBA is a system for developing Windows applications. It is a macro system, one that is complete enough to allow for the creation of commercially viable applications, but a macro system nonetheless.
As computer technology continues to develop, the definition of what is called a "high level" or "macro" language changes. For example, a long time ago, "macro system" referred to an assembler supporting "macroinstructions", essentially inline subroutines.
VBA is not a substitute or competitor for Visual Studio or other Windows development systems.
Is there a solid dividing line between "macro systems" and proper interpreted programming languages such as JavaScript, PHP, and Python? Or are JavaScript, PHP, and Python, in which high-profile home-user-facing applications are implemented, likewise "not a substitute"?
No, they just want developers to pay them for the privilege of writing software for Apple products. See, for example, the $99/year fee for permission to write iOS applications.
There is no such fee. There is a $100 fee if you want to a) download your app to a device instead of using the simulator, and b) sell your app on the App Store.
Just to be clear. ;-)
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
Apps created by professional developers who use expensive workstations and have little problem paying Apple are part of the appeal.
That's right. Having a $100 per year hurdle is no disincentive to professional developers. Yet it cuts down on the amount of shit that would other wise be put out there by people casually having a go.
It's a bit like a spam filter in that it increases the signal to noise ratio.
Seriously? Code on an iPad? Why on earth would you want to do that? This tablet fad is getting beyond ridiculous. Is the convenience of holding and carrying of a tablet device so vital that people are willing to trade absolutely everything else for it? This is the age of stupid hybrid OS like Windows 8 coupled to a hybrid device that has a much smaller screen than a standard laptop in a ridiculous 16:9 ratio at a much higher price than a comparably specced laptop just so you can use it as a tablet? Who in their sane mind would want to code on a tablet, I sit here on a 1080p 15.6 screen thinking I really need to pick up a 24"/27" as soon as possible to do real work.
What will the next trend be? Cooking everything in a tiny saucepan over a tiny camping stove because you can carry it everywhere, and we can mock the chefs with their gigantic pans and woks and ovens, who needs those. Abandoning bicycles for unicycles that fit in a suitcase for portability? Wildlife and sports photography with an iPhone, because who needs those SLRs and gigantic 300mm F2.8 lens? Writing and editing books and articles, manuscripts spanning hundreds of pages with a long list of references to be checked, all written on an iPad, because who the hell needs multiple windows open and visible at the same time on the screen, and as for typing, just blindly poke your fingers and autocorrect will seamlessly convert it to beautifully worded text.