Amazon Debuts Kindle Paperwhite, Kindle Fire HD In 2 Sizes

Nerval's Lobster writes "Amazon used a Sept. 6 event in California to debut a range of products, including a front-lit [not back-lit, as originally reported] Kindle e-reader with a higher-resolution screen, an updated Kindle Fire, and the new Kindle Fire HD in two screen sizes. First, Bezos showed off a new version of the Kindle e-reader, the Kindle Paperwhite, complete with a front-lit, higher-resolution screen (221 pixels-per-inch and 25 percent more contrast, according to Amazon). The device weighs 7.5 ounces and is 9.1mm thin; battery life is rated at eight weeks, and the screen brightness is adjustable. He then showed off the updated Kindle Fire, before moving to the Kindle Fire HD, which features a choice of 7-inch or 8.9-inch screens, dual stereo speakers with Dolby Digital Plus, two antennas for better Wi-Fi pickup, and a Texas Instruments OMAP 4470 processor (which Bezos claimed could out-perform the Tegra 3). The Kindle Fire HD's 7-inch version will retail for $199 and ship Sept. 14, while the 8.9-inch version will cost $299 and ship Nov. 20. An 8.9-inch, 4G LTE-enabled version with 32GB storage will be available starting Nov. 20 for $499, paired with a $49.99-a-year data plan."

Comments

But it's not the google experience

[alen]

I want to feel warm and fuzzy and covered in the goodness of complete googleness

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

I want to feel warm and fuzzy and covered in the goodness of complete googleness

I picked up a Fire as a cheap 'Android' tablet while visiting the US. Once I got it back to the UK, it was pretty hopeless. No Amazon Marketplace over here and the odd hardware profile means most apps turn up their nose at it, even with sideloaded Google Market. I will be looking at the Nexus 7 or similar when I come to replace it. Sorry Amazon, nice try, but your walled garden isn't for me.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[cpu6502]

Does Google include 10-20 dollar books that can be borrowed for free? Or Fantasy & Science magazine for a mere $12/year? Or e-ink that is easy on the eyes? Or free 3G web surfing? My kindle has all of that.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[h4rr4r]

and a nice horribly slow refresh rate, no games, no netflix, or any other useful application.

Eink is not a tablet replacement.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[cpu6502]

>>>Sorry Amazon, nice try, but your walled garden isn't for me.

One could say the same about the BBC and their "walled garden". Why on earth did you think you could use an amazon tablet outside of its home country? I certainly don't expect to be able to hear/watch BBC outside of the UK.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[dffuller]

Nor is a tablet a suitable replacement for an Eink reader.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Bryansix]

The Kindle app is in the Google Play marketplace. I don't know what this has to do with anything.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[ottothecow]

no games, no netflix, or any other useful application

I think you are forgetting about the incredibly useful application that millions of e-ink kindle owners are incredibly satisfied. Or do you need all of your entertainment spoonfed to you through a bunch of blinky lights?

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

That is just a bizarre comparison. BBC is paid for by the *government*, Amazon is a private company. I don't see why a Kindle couldn't work perfectly outside the US.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

lots of apps and amazon instant video which is cheaper than netflix. and it has this cool ability to rent a movie right there that's not in the instant video catalog. unlike netflix

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Jethro]

It is absolutely trivial to transform a Kindle Fire into a regular Android tablet. My mom did it. I got a refurb one specifically for that purpose. It is currently running Jelly Bean pretty smoothly.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[cpu6502]

>>>Eink is not a tablet replacement.

Strawman Argument. Who said it was? (Certainly not me.) I don't want a shitty tablet that has no keyboard. I'd rather have a laptop, but I can't carry that in my pocket can I? I want the kindle with easy-to-read epaper, free web surfing, cheap F&SF magazine, free loans, and only cost me $50.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[nospam007]

"My kindle has all of that."

Mine too. I own all the models but the touch has a problem in country life.
Each time a fly lands on it, there's a page change, back or forward, depending on the landing zone.
Sometimes the fly also looks-up a word in the dictionary.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[h4rr4r]

Actually it is. I use one in that fashion regularly.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[WaywardGeek]

Amazon's walled garden is the #1 strength of the Nexus 7. Also, the latest Android is nice. I have the Amazon Kindle app, the B&N Nook app, Google's Play Books app, and of course an audio-book player which is what I use most often. I was wondering what Amazon could offer that would make me wish I had a Kindle Fire HD. Looks like nothing.

On the positive side, the $300 price point for the larger device is eye-opening, though I'm pretty happy with my 7". My family keeps stealing it, and my wife travels with it, even though she has an iPad. The Nexus 7 is simply a better e-book reader than any current iPad.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[RocketRabbit]

If you want to read in the dark, an e-ink reader is completely useless. I often read in bed for an hour or so, and if I turned on the light my wife would not be very pleased with me.

Aside from this, no e-ink reader has anything even remotely close in function to Goodreader on the iPad. If you are content to digest dime-store novels and such in .epb format (or whatever proprietary formats are used on your e-ink reader of choice) then knock yourself out. Meanwhile, I'm able to do thinks like open huge schematics and zoom into parts with no bullshitting around.

No, a tablet isn't a suitable replacement for an e-ink reader. It totally eclipses them in almost every way.

Question - is your computer monitor e-ink as well? Most folks spend a lot more time staring at the computer monitor than they do their tablets or e-ink readers.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

It used to be that people loved google because of the minimal scope of its single search bar on the home page. My, how times have changed.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[WaywardGeek]

The Kindle Paper White sounds like the best e-book reader yet. I go for the B&N versions normally, though, for e-Ink. As for your questions about Google, the answer is yes. I have the Kindle app, and it does everything a Kindle does. I still see exactly zero reason to opt for a Kindle HD 7". My Nexus 7 rocks.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Artifakt]

What's really weird about your counterpoint is: There was a time in the 80's and 90's when the US donated launch vehicles to put up BBC's satelites over various tropical locations such as the Carribean, and the treaties that made this possible spelled out that US citizens who could get line of sight to those birds could legally access the programming. Living in Fla. at the time, I was one of the people who did it. Later, i was told by a US government source that they never meant to have that knowledge become generally public, and actually wrote the BBC to confirm it was as I remembered. BBC reps actually sent me a government address to contact if I wanted more information and confirmed that was their understanding as well, so I have no idea who the US government was acting on behalf of.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[man_of_mr_e]

The new kindle paperwhite includes a page light, so this is no longer true.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[alen]

real kindles and amazon prime give you instant video on tablets along with free borrowing of a lot of books

Re:But it's not the google experience

[cpu6502]

>>>BBC is paid for by the *government*, Amazon is a private company. I don't see why a Kindle couldn't work perfectly outside the US.

Because of the *government* of which you speak. The U.S. doesn't allow exports of U.S. copyrighted works w/o permission of the owner..... and the UK government protects its local artists/authors by not allowing imports unless registered under UK copyrights. Amazon may be a private company, but it is being blocked from downloading books/music/video to your UK kindle by the government.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

I had both a nook classic and nook tablet (running cm9). I sold the tablet because all I wanted to was read and didn't like the led screen, plus it was too distracting. I have a laptop and a tv for video entertainment. I still use the nook classic every single day.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[h4rr4r]

The kindle reader application works great on any android device. I use it all the time.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

> BBC is paid for by the *government*

It is most certainly not. That's the whole point of it - that it isn't relying on taxes and would thus be accountable to the government, or could be put under pressure by the government. License fees are paid for by the people directly, bypassing the government.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

This should be "Interesting/Funny/Suspicious".

Re:But it's not the google experience

[hawguy]

>>>Sorry Amazon, nice try, but your walled garden isn't for me.

One could say the same about the BBC and their "walled garden". Why on earth did you think you could use an amazon tablet outside of its home country? I certainly don't expect to be able to hear/watch BBC outside of the UK.

Because I paid for the tablet, but I don't pay for the BBC?

Re:But it's not the google experience

[MozeeToby]

As has been reported recently on Slashdot (and known to people with circadian rhythm disorders for much longer) staring at a backlit screen at night can seriously screw up your sleep schedule. Not to mention many people have more eyestrain from backlit screens than non-emissive ones. For many people, a tablet is a terrible replacement for an eInk ereader. Does make me wonder if this Paperwhite will have the same problems though.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Coppit]

Hold long will the (hu)man hold down the proud black fly?

Re:But it's not the google experience

[h4rr4r]

That study did not seem very complete. I would bet on a strong placebo effect.

Eyestrain from backlit screens is another one of those bullshit conditions. People spend 8 hours looking into an LCD, then go home and spend another couple hours looking at a bigger LCD. No one ever complains about the monitor or the tv, but if its a book they say "oh noes lcd will burn the eyeballs out of your sockets!!".

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

>>>Sorry Amazon, nice try, but your walled garden isn't for me.

One could say the same about the BBC and their "walled garden". Why on earth did you think you could use an amazon tablet outside of its home country? I certainly don't expect to be able to hear/watch BBC outside of the UK.

Why you need to use a table connected to amazon in North America, you can use to navigate, play games and stream locall content of your country and download globally distribution software of android market, is android, and is not exclusive to use at North America it can be used anywhere...

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

For our purposes, the same thing. Point was it's a tax-funded program.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[SomePgmr]

I have those same things with my original KF's. But I did have to install them myself.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[h4rr4r]

I am not a homosexual, not sure why you would think I was. I have some gay friends I can introduce you to if you are looking for a date.

I own only 1 apple device, a macbook air running linux. I despise the iOS devices.

I have a nook, which has an lcd and it works great.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

From Wikipedia:

"The money received is first paid into the Government's Consolidated Fund. It is subsequently included in the 'vote' for the Department of Culture, Media and Sport in that year's Appropriation Act, and passed on to the BBC..."

"The licence fee is classified as a tax,[3] and evasion is a criminal offence"

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

The (hu)man isn't holding it down, it's just another dumb black fly.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

That's funny. Half my torrents are BBC (or Channel 4 -- to us Americans they're the same thing) and they play just fine here in America.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[ThatsMyNick]

B&N has had a frontlit one for about 6 months now. They call it GlowLight.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[jabelli]

And as I was waiting to buy an e-ink reader until someone came out with one with a built-in light, I got one as soon as I found them in-stock at the local B&N. I have more than 400 books on it, mostly from Baen's web store. I can read all day without being tethered to the wall as I had been; reading for more than 5 hours on my notebook means needing a charge. I can wander into the kitchen for a drink or a snack and continue reading without having to turn on the lights.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[RocketRabbit]

So, it has a light, but does it do PDF annotation? Can you zoom and navigate and crop PDFs easily? No.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[lexman098]

LED screens don't have a backlight, so you can turn down the brightness and use dim white text on a pure black background. No e-ink required.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[whoop]

Amazon recently opened it up to five European countries. So I guess you can finally use it if you wanted to return to stock...

Re:But it's not the google experience

[McFadden]

or Channel 4 -- to us Americans they're the same thing

Speak for yourself, ignoramus.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Guspaz]

It has a native PDF reader, which supports pinch-to-zoom and dragging to scroll... What are you complaining about, exactly? That the screen refreshes too slowly while doing this?

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Man Eating Duck]

So, it has a light, but does it do PDF annotation? Can you zoom and navigate and crop PDFs easily? No.

The primary use for an e-ink reader is to read novels. PDF is not a suitable format for that. Although the Sony reader has the features you ask for, for those of us who don't read children's books they are not necessary. Technical reference works is not really what it's designed for either, but it's quite adequate, and far better than the tablet I left at home.

Look, if you don't read novels e-ink is not for you. Get a tablet for your games, browsing, magazines and illustrated PDFs. We who *do* read novels are quite happy with our readers. BTW, I also have a tiny clip-on reading light which works perfectly well, but I almost never bring it because I don't need it.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Man Eating Duck]

"My kindle has all of that."

Mine too. I own all the models but the touch has a problem in country life.
Each time a fly lands on it, there's a page change, back or forward, depending on the landing zone.
Sometimes the fly also looks-up a word in the dictionary.

At one time an ant highlighted the words "advocate leniency" on a page in my Sony reader. Maybe those insects have more communication skills than we give them credit for :)

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Cinder6]

Actually it is [a replacement for a tablet]. I use one in that fashion regularly.

I used to think that before I got a Kindle. How wrong I was.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[galabar]

When I first purchase my Kindle Fire, I thought the same thing. However, I found that I enjoyed reading the Kindle Fire better than my Kindle (2 with keyboard). The back-light and touch screen were great for reading while in bed (for my Kindle, I used a cover with a built in light, which was not great). My daughter (now 10) felt the same way.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Cinder6]

I have the GlowLight model. B&N's hardware is nicer than Amazon's, as is their software, but their actual ebooks leave something to be desired. I've encountered a lot more formatting errors than I did on the Kindle, and even several books that didn't let me change the font. I actually had to resort to stripping the DRM from the EPUBs (or just downloading pirate copies of books I bought), unzipping them, and manually adding the font files and editing the manifest, CSS, etc. It's a damn pain, and the reason why I preordered the Paperwhite.

I bought the Nook in part because I wanted to support someone who wasn't Amazon, and I don't want this to become a market dominated by one player. Honestly, though, Amazon's doing a better job. This isn't even getting into the poor syncing between the Nook and the iOS app, or the fact that sideloading is more difficult than on the Kindle (no syncing there, and you can't sideload into the iOS app).

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Bryansix]

Amazon Prime costs money. Real Kindles by themselves don't get you anything.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[RocketRabbit]

I'm at the point in my life where I don't want to manage a shitload of different devices. If I want to spend money on a gadget, at this point it's likely to be another lens for one of my cameras, or another amateur radio or something. I have a computer and an iPad and that's all I need in that department.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Abreu]

Please tell me you rooted it and installed vanilla android on it, instead of just letting it gather dust.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

Strawman Argument.

You really need to learn what a strawman argument is.

Who said it was? (Certainly not me.)

Yes you did. Right here in fact.

I am now going to call you a fag. And when you get offended by that, I will get offended right back at you and claim that I was giving you a compliment. Because that is what you do to us all the fucking time. You say one thing, and then get all indignant that we understood it differently from the way that you thought we should, because you lack a proper understanding of English. Please STFU until you can learn how to properly communicate in English.

Or at least apologize every once in a while and explain how you don't have that firm a grasp of the English language.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Pulzar]

real kindles and amazon prime give you instant video on tablets along with free borrowing of a lot of books

Amazon Prime gives you instant video on anything, including the TV, which is really where you want to watch things anyway.

I love Prime, but "a lot of books" is an extreme exaggeration. I still have to buy all the books I want to read, since not one of them has ever been free to borrow.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[1u3hr]

the UK government protects its local artists/authors by not allowing imports unless registered under UK copyrights.

What? What?

Bullshit.

I've exported plenty of books to the UK, (when I worked for a publisher) never heard of this requirement.

Maybe you're thinking of North Korea or wherever it is you live, because "copyright registration" is not a requirement" to sell books in any civilised country.

However, I'm sure publishers do want to restrict the marketing regions. They will have contractual arrangement with Amazon to do so. But that's nothing to do with either copyright or the UK government.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[bhcompy]

So you're a hypocrite? You don't want to manage a shitload of specialized devices, yet you have an SLR, a ham radio, a computer, and iPad, and probably a phone and other things. You could just have an iPad and do all of those things, then you would truly be not managing a shitload of devices, but, as it stands based on the information provided, you already are managing a shitload of specialized devices, so why not one more?

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

You actually can watch some of the BBC programs legally outside the UK. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2011/jul/28/bbc-iplayer-global-ipad-launch

Re:But it's not the google experience

[man_of_mr_e]

Why would you need to annotate a PDF when you're reading an epub? Why would you need to zoom and crop a novel that has been reflowed with whatever text size you have chosen?

the e-ink readers are designed for just that.. reading. Expecting one to be a PDF editor is pretty retarded.

The comment was about e-ink readers not being useful in the dark, that was what my reply was in response to. Moving the goalposts doesn't make you look smarter, it makes it clear you're not.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[dbIII]

Well, I use a Nintendo DS for that at times but just like using a tablet it just doesn't work in some situations (any sort of sunlight or some time since the last charge).

Re:But it's not the google experience

[dbIII]

There's a Russian one (Wexler) with LG's flexible screen that would probably win that crown today on hardware alone, and I expect similar hardware will come to the Kindle in time and be paired with their software.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I have your mom's phone number? I like a nerdy MILF.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[chrismcb]

Get back to me after you spend most of the 8 hours of your 10 hour flight reading... and then immediately get on a train for a 10 hour train trip. How's that tablet working now?
I like eink as I don't have to stare at a light bulb to read. Plus it has about a one month battery life.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[CodeheadUK]

The Amazon marketplace is (was?) restricted to US Amazon accounts. I.E. you must have a US credit card registered to the account. You can use Google Apps on the Fire, but access is limited by the hardware profile. There may be better vanilla Android roms around now, but when I looked into rooting my Fire last year, it would have meant loss of functionality.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[chrismcb]

A TV is fine. A monitor not so much, an ebook even worse. A TV is fine as it is generally further away and its average brightness is fairly low. But with the plethora of people who think you HAVE to have a white background, and how close one sits to a monitor, eye strain from using the computer is fairly eye. With a ebook reader, you tend to sit even closer, and concentrate harder.
I used to use a black background for ages (but had to stop due to all the idiot programmers) and my eyes felt MUCH better with the black screen than the white screen.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[chrismcb]

I'm at the point in my life where I don't want to manage a shitload of different devices.

If you don't read books, then an ebook reader isn't for you. But if you do read books, what would you rather do? Manage a single device, or manage a shitload of different books?

Re:But it's not the google experience

[nospam007]

"At one time an ant highlighted the words "advocate leniency" on a page in my Sony reader. Maybe those insects have more communication skills than we give them credit for :)"

Indeed. :-) I don't remember what it was looking up, but the next time I'll check.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[fa2k]

Why on earth did you think you could use an amazon tablet outside of its home country?

That's just common sense, and the comparison is bogus. I can use a computer I bought in France with a printer I bought in Norway in the UK (with some power adapters). The printer was made by a South Korean company.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[coinreturn]

No-one complains about LCD desktop displays because they sit in one place, and you adjust them so they don't catch the light and show reflections You can't do that with a tablet.

So, adjusting a big, fixed desktop display to avoid reflections is easier than a small, mobile display. Wow, you must be severely handicapped.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[RocketRabbit]

I think you can infer from context that I meant computing devices. There's no need to be a little cock-in-the-ass here.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[RocketRabbit]

I read free Google books on my iPad. I also read paper books. It's actually fantastic for that purpose. Much better than a rinky dink little Kindle, and I am against "buying" e-books anyway. They cost about as much as the real deal anyway. I might pay $0.49 for one, at the most, but they all seem to be at least 10x that expensive.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[RocketRabbit]

"The primary use for an e-ink reader is to read novels."

Maybe for you. For me, the primary purpose of my tablet is reading stuff, mainly in PDF format. Some of my reading time with my iPad is indeed spent with novels. It's perfectly suitable for reading novels in PDF format. I suppose you have an off-brand tablet, because nothing actually beats the iPad for technical reference. That's too bad, but I'm sure you learned your lesson about off-brand tablets.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[RocketRabbit]

I don't use the epub format. I read PDFs, some of which I annotate as I go along. I also read novels using my tablet, but they are in PDF format of course.

I didn't move any goalposts - I simply stated that the Kindle is inferior for all of my purposes. No color, poor capability with PDFs, awful refresh time, and the DPI sucks compared to the iPad.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[TimKemp]

I don't see how an iPad would replace a ham radio. In the case of those other devices it's only a limited replacement. It's pretty obvious RocketRabbit dosen't do a lot of reading or doesn't care about the advantages of an e-ink reader (long battery life, less eye strain, sunlight readable). In the same way that the iPad is a half-way replacement for those other things it is a half-way replacement for an e-reader.

It's much like a Swiss Army Knife. It does a lot of things, but if you are often better off with a specialized tool. However, if you don't care about it's limitations, you can cut down a tree with one. I've known people who swear that their Swiss Army Knife is the perfect tool for all sorts of things that it appears not very good at. It's all in your perspective.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

ALICE was beginning to get very tired of sitting by her sister on the bank and of having nothing to do: once or twice she had peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, "and what is the use of a book," thought Alice, "without pictures or conversations?'

Re:But it's not the google experience

[RocketRabbit]

It's ironic that you'd bring this up, seeing as how just last week I put the original hand-drawn and colored manuscript of that very work on my iPad. You know, the sort of thing that wouldn't be viewable on an e-ink screen.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[RocketRabbit]

Actually I find e-ink screens to be lower contrast than my iPad's screen. They look like grubby paper and have less resolution (ie they aren't as sharp) and the iPad is quite viewable in full sun.

I don't know how you inferred that I don't read much, on the contrary, I read all the time. Maybe I'm not doing it in the way that you seem to think is ideal for me, but that's more of your problem than mine.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazon's app store is now available in the UK, I noticed it advertised on Amazon's site last Friday and installed it on my Nexus 7.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[TimKemp]

I have no problem at all with you reading on an iPad. The second half of my sentence said, "or doesn't care about the advantages of an e-ink reader". I probably should have phrased it as, "or doesn't care about what others perceive to be the advantages of an e-ink reader". I don't have an iPad, so as far as being able to see it clearly in direct sunlight I am only able to go from my experience with other back-lit LCD displays and from the impression of others. This is the first time I've heard that "the iPad is quite viewable in full sun". That's great.

As I said, it's all a mater of perspective and personal preference. I don't have a tablet because I haven't seen a need for one. Much of what others use an iPad for I use my phone for. I'm sure there are others that would feel that I'm using the wrong tool, but again it's all a matter of personal preference. I have no idea what is ideal for you and that was the point I was trying to make. I agree with you 100%.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[RocketRabbit]

The iPad's screen is so bright when turned up full blast that you may as well be staring into the sun. It's quite impressive.

I tried various e-ink readers and couldn't really see the point, for me. As I said in another post, I would rather have just a desktop and the iPad for my computing suite. If I buy other gadgets they are likely to be lenses or amateur radios.

I do not own a cell phone, but if I had to have one I doubt I would use iPad as much as I do now.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Bigby]

Does your tablet go weeks on the same charge? Reader devices are great at what they do. So great the a tablet will never touch them at their craft. But with a reader, you will only get reading capability. It is what it is. You can't say one is better than the other. It depends on what you are looking for. Is a car better than a bike? It depends on what you do...

Re:But it's not the google experience

[cpu6502]

Quoting myself:
>>>Does Google include 10-20 dollar books that can be borrowed for free? Or Fantasy & Science magazine for a mere $12/year? Or e-ink that is easy on the eyes? Or free 3G web surfing?

I don't see one single sentence where I claimed my Kindle Reader was a replacement for an iPad or other tablet. I merely said it doesn't do what I need it to do, therefore I have zero interest in the "googley goodness" of the tablet.

Oh and stop polsting as Anonymous Coward. Everyone knows you have a real actual UserID. Stop hiding. If you're going to attack/insult other people then do it using your ID, so we can mod you down with -1 hit points.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[cpu6502]

>>>Eyestrain from backlit screens is another one of those bullshit conditions

Nope. I read books, websites, and other documents on CRTs and LCDs, but don't like it one bit. I turn-down the brightness as low as possible.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[cpu6502]

>>> I have the Kindle app, and it does everything a Kindle does.

My F&SF magazine can only be read on actual read kindle, so no your "app" doesn't do everything. And of course it's running on a tablet which has bright LCD which bothers my eyes. I'd rather have e-paper. And finally: You're not getting free 3G websurfing like my kindle has.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Jethro]

No you may not.

But you MAY know that my mom's phone is a Nexus One running CyanogenMod 7.2.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[helix2301]

Overall I definitely thing Amazon is on the right track with the tablet market there price point is great and there innovation is wonderful. There new features are defiantly a buying point. I defiantly think there integration with the droid market and there cloud integration will make them the leader in the eReader and Tablet market.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

Quoting myself:

Did you not even bother to check the post I linked? The text you quoted is that link.

Just accept that you don't have a firm grasp of the English language. It isn't anything to be ashamed of. And by accepting it, you may actually be able to improve.

Everyone knows you have a real actual UserID. Stop hiding.

1) Why do you assume that there is just a single person posting anonymous comments to your posts?

2) Let us, for a second, assume that I do have a UserID. Do you have any idea how easy it would be for me to just make another? Hell, it'd actually be beneficial, since I believe that my posts would start out at 1 instead of 0. And yet I post anonymously. Why? Because I am lazy. Too lazy, in fact, to register even a first account.

If you're going to attack/insult other people then do it using your ID, so we can mod you down with -1 hit points.

Holy fuck, dude. I'm trying to help you, to get you to realize that when you say stuff to us, it doesn't mean what you apparently think it means!

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

> Plus it has about a one month battery life.

If you only read an hour a day. You'll only get ~30 hours of actual use out of a Kindle or Nook eReader.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

You pay for the BBC in taxes.

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Anonymous Coward]

Tablets/e-readers do not sit in one place all day, unlike desktop displays.... was that too fucking complicated for you to grasp?

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Man Eating Duck]

I'm at the point in my life where I don't want to manage a shitload of different devices. If I want to spend money on a gadget, at this point it's likely to be another lens for one of my cameras, or another amateur radio or something. I have a computer and an iPad and that's all I need in that department.

I admire how you adressed *all* the points in my post. Good work dude :)

But seriously: the el-crapo zoom lens that came with our $550 camera is quite adequate for our needs, yet I fully appreciate the need for a better lens (or several) for people who are interested in photography.

You don't feel a need for a specialised reading device, but you can surely understand that others might enjoy them. If they don't fit your need, just don't buy one, your money is surely better spent towards a new lens. Let's just leave it at that, ok? :)

Re:But it's not the google experience

[Man Eating Duck]

"The primary use for an e-ink reader is to read novels."

Maybe for you. For me, the primary purpose of my tablet is reading stuff, mainly in PDF format. Some of my reading time with my iPad is indeed spent with novels. It's perfectly suitable for reading novels in PDF format. I suppose you have an off-brand tablet, because nothing actually beats the iPad for technical reference. That's too bad, but I'm sure you learned your lesson about off-brand tablets.

Ok, I saw this reply after addressing another of your replies to my post, where I tried to be nice. Off-brand tablets, seriously? Are you thirteen years old? Ok, I can play that game :)

I use an iPad supplied by my employer for the explicit purpose of QA of digital editions (I work at a publishing house, part of my job description is "ebook producer". I produce epub, pdf, mobi, indexed html, lrf, whatever is necessary). Yes, in my opinion the iPad is inferior to other tablets, but we need to assure that our books look nice on all major devices. I've actually tried it for reading a novel in the dark, and found that at its brightest setting it's very good as a night light for my E-Ink reader (the brightness on the iPad is fucking amazing).

Ebooks nowadays aren't released in pdf unless they're extremely reliant on the ancient "page layout" paradigm, or the customer explicitly wants a "perfect copy" of the paper version. PDF is very well suited for sending a file to the printing house for reproduction, and not much else. Publishers prefer flowable formats for digital books as they're not tying the customer to a specific screen size or reading device in order to make them readable. This is pretty much accepted in the community, check the forums at Mobileread for confirmation.

Ok, enough of this. It seems that you have an axe to grind, but please take it somewhere else. It's annoying to the adults trying to have a rational conversation.

Like the multi-user features

[SuperKendall]

Kindle has a nice idea of how the device can be used in a family, where the parents can control time spent by kids.

It'll be interesting to see if Apple has anything up and comping to address this same problem, until now they have kind of ignore this.

I think Amazon could do very well with the new Fire, and also the new PaperWhite kindle - that's the first e-ink Kindle that appeals to me, the others were just too low contrast for me. And even iPad owners could easily be enticed to buy a cheaper e-ink Kindle... that could well help cement them as the leader in e-Books (not that they were not already pretty cemented).

Re:Like the multi-user features

[Robadob]

I would have thought, apples plan is that every user in the house owns their own iDevice, rather than sharing them.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[SuperKendall]

That probably is Apple's plan. It was easy enough to carry forth when there were no good competitors. But instead of getting each of two kids an iPad, a single Kindle Fire for both is viable... it'll be interesting to see uptake on this vs. Apple's plan, or if Apple decides that in fact they should think about more of a multi-user approach.

Apple is even sort of well positioned to take up multi-user stuff if they want to thanks to iCloud, each kid could have a different iCloud account and the device could easily switch home directories based on the current iCloud user setting. They just don't make that easy to do right now (I think it would re-sync the device every time you switched users).

Indeed, Amazon could probably not have managed this this family thing without the Whispersync stuff in place themselves...

Re:Like the multi-user features

[Anonymous Coward]

You've met any siblings? If one wants to do something, the other will want to do the same thing, just because the other does it. Time share plan is a good idea in theory... practice on the other hand ... not so much.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[SuperKendall]

That's a great point but it comes up hard against the economic reality of many families not being able to afford an iPad per kid.

I know a number of families that make kids share an iPad, it builds character after all. But with a multi-user approach a brother could not screw with his sisters games.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[kybred]

But instead of getting each of two kids an iPad, a single Kindle Fire for both is viable...

I'm guessing that you don't have two (or more) kids. Share is typically not in their vocabulary.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[Beorytis]

...the parents can control time spent by kids.

Wow, they can use the device to make sure kids read?

Re:Like the multi-user features

[Anonymous Coward]

My 4 year old absolutely loves my ipad, and there are many excellent free preschool apps available. He does really well with minecraft. (his favorite thing to play actually). However what I'd like to be able to do is lock out certain apps and settings while he's using it. For example it's simply way too easy to delete entire apps by touch-holding from a home screen and going into "edit" mode. I wonder if the Kindle multiuser support addresses this kind of thing as well.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[future assassin]

>It'll be interesting to see if Apple has anything up and comping to address this same problem

Of course there will be. It'll be an Apple original idea...patented.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[RocketRabbit]

That's because of shitty parenting. Proper parenting results in sharing. Shitty parenting results in kids that are rutted and who simply grow, like a cow or a vegetable. Proper parenting involves raising children so that they understand the concepts of sharing, respect, playing nice, etc.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[andyn]

Kindle has a nice idea of how the device can be used in a family, where the parents can control time spent by kids.

Yeah, books teach kids revolutionist ideas so it's better to reduce their exposure to any potentially dangerous material.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[safetyinnumbers]

I know a number of families that make kids share an iPad

You can usually get refurbished iPods (from Apple, so good condition and 1yr warranty) for under $200, especially if not the latest version. Ideal for kids, as long as they're in a thick rubber case.

(There's a joke opening in my last sentence if anyone wants it.)

Re:Like the multi-user features

[Anonymous Coward]

That depends very much on the quality of the parents.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[bsane]

what are you? some kind of communist?

Re:Like the multi-user features

[icebraining]

That's what my mother thought until she had her second kid. Turns out genetics and other environmental factors are extremely important for accepting such concepts too.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[Anonymous Coward]

Your Mom is ideal for kids!

(Jokes that need to be called out aren't good jokes)

Re:Like the multi-user features

[jabelli]

If you had the rubber case in the first place, you wouldn't have had the kids.

Is "Thick rubber case" the modern version of Twain's barrel?

Re:Like the multi-user features

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's plan is to take 25% of the $5000 the kid spends on smurfberries.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[RocketRabbit]

No, I didn't want to impugn the parenting skills of cattle in comparison to the majority of human parents these days. That'd be downright silly. My apologies.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[Cinder6]

You've met any siblings? If one wants to do something, the other will want to do the same thing, just because the other does it. Time share plan is a good idea in theory... practice on the other hand ... not so much.

Talk about a first-world problem. "I had to get little Timmy his own iPad because he and little Johnny were always fighting over the other one." Heaven forbid kids should learn to share. (Strongly resisting the obvious "back when I was a kid" anecdote. I'm only partially successful.)

Re:Like the multi-user features

[Anonymous Coward]

If you raised your children right, it is.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[jackbird]

Not true. My one year-old has learned to scream "share!" as she rips a toy out of her older brother's hand....

Re:Like the multi-user features

[ynp7]

This is exactly why my kids don't even know about iPad, Kindle, or any other sort of electronic device. They're like Amish, only instead of finding ways to cheat and use electricity they clean my bathroom and polish the stainless.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[Kergan]

What's happening in practice is that kids get mum or dad's device when they upgrade.

Re:Like the multi-user features

[sh00z]

Of course there will be. It'll be an Apple original idea...patented.

You do know that the MacOS implementation of parental controls has had this capability as least far back as 10.4 (April 2005), right? So, I would say that, yes, they have considered (and discarded) it for iOS.

Price on data plan is suspect

[Anonymous Coward]

$49.99 a YEAR for data? Uh, what?

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[alen]

250MB per month before you have to pay more

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[Overzeetop]

That's a winner for me. I use so little data - I just need a little information most of the time. Give this baby a custom interface for an in-dash entertainment system and I'm all over it.

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[crazyjj]

Hey, that's over 8MB a day. That's right, 8 *Mega*bytes, bitches! And it's "Mega" so you KNOW it's gots to be big! Let's see someone else top THAT!

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[clarkkent09]

In other words that's about twice as expensive as $20 for 2GB that I pay to my cell phone company.

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[fermion]

This may be for real, and may be a good model. Amazon already pays a blanket fee to distribute books to the kindle. They are probably not marking up what they pay for data very much to the end user. The device is the same price as the iPad, so they appear to be leveraging their bulk data buying to attract consumers.

This will certainly be a good selling point. I have 250MB limit on some of my devices. Given that most of my time is spent in WiFi vicinity, I don't really go over. For most people who are not going to watch movies on the road that will be enough. I do wonder if streaming from amazon is going to be including in the limit, or if they want to push the cloud enough to make it not count against the limit. If Amazon did allow you to stream movies that you bought without penalty, that would be a good reason to buy the kindle.

It is also interesting to compare this strategy against the Google strategy. Amazon has well priced good products with a customized Android interface backed by a cheap data plan and lots of content. The OEMs working with Google to put out chrome books and tablets tend to not have the content, are not leveraging data plans that Google certainly has the power to acquire, and in the end are not selling product. Look at the chromebook lease deals. $30 a month for a computer that will not work without an internet connection, and often does not include mobile connectivity options.

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[Anubis IV]

8MB of bandwidth per day ought to be enough for anybody. ;)

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[Desler]

You pay $20 per year to get 2GB of data each month?

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[cpu6502]

Where are you getting this 250MB limit? My kindle keyboard also has a limit, but it doesn't apply as long as I stay inside the U.S. where it's unlimited. (shrug). If you turn-off the images it makes a huge difference in the data impact. A 1 meg page shrinks to just a few kilobytes (~50).

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[Desler]

Where are you getting this 250MB limit?

From Amazon's slide they showed during the event.

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[Desler]

What do you mean 'may be for real? They explicitly stated it in their presentation.

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[Anonymous Coward]

That's over 700b/s -- faster than a 300 baud modem!

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[Anonymous Coward]

With wifi access most of the time it is enough for most.

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[afgam28]

I know you're joking, but it's easily enough for most people considering they can also use Wifi when at home.

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[crazyjj]

I know! You could run a BBS on that!

Re:Price on data plan is suspect

[fermion]

I have not seen any details, as yet, on prices for data over 250MB. If they are going to be large, then the value of machine will not really meet the "$400" saving that Amazon is advertising. For instance, if each gig is another $100 a year, then 3 gig is 300, which is now approaching a year of data on ATT.

Also, how long is this deal going to available. Is it going to avalable for a second year, or it only with purchase. How are upgrades going to be handled? Do I lose my $50 is I upgrade to a larger plan. There are many ways to hide costs in this situation,

Software Quality

[Anonymous Coward]

My main question: Will they get the software right? My Kindle Touch has some truly terrible software running it.

Re:Software Quality

[squiggleslash]

Kindle Touch is an entirely different OS, it's not Android based like the Fire range.

My comments, marginally related to yours:

One thing I really like about the Kindle Fires is that Amazon actually has something that Apple and Google do not: a vision for how their devices will be used. Apple and Google are trying to create a "useful touch-based computing device", while Amazon have already said "OK, it's a device for playing games, watching movies, and listening to music, etc." and are working on creating something they consider optimal for that.

While, personally, I suspect if I got a KF HD I'd do the same thing as I did with my existing KF (install Jellybean on it and use it as a normal tablet), it's at least interesting to see what Amazon are trying to do with their stuff.

Re:Software Quality

[Cinder6]

The only things I dislike about the Kindle Touch software are that it shows books as a list of titles rather than cover art, and it doesn't show you how much left you have in a chapter (oddly, the non-Touch Kindle does show you this data). The first looks like it might be remedied, at least from screenshots, and in the presentation today, Bezos said that the Paperwhite tells you how much time you have left in your current chapter. Yes, time, not pages or "locations" or percentage. It tracks your reading speed. Pretty neat.

I'm preordering the thing as soon as it goes up. I'd hoped the release would be today (in a perfect, pipe dream sort of world) or at the most a week out. The wait until October will be agonizing.

I have a Nook Simple Touch with GlowLight and, while I like the thing well enough, the contrast is low compared to similar Kindles (due to the anti-reflective film on it) and Amazon has far superior syncing capabilities than BN. But most of all, not all books on the Nook allow you to change fonts, and you're stuck with the default font that I despise. Couple that with awkward formatting, and it's a real irritation. I could live with the other issues, but that's a deal-breaker.

Amazon also has me considering keeping my Audible.com subscription, which I'd planned on canceling this month. It syncs up with your ebook location, so you can read, then listen at where you stopped, or vice versa (or even listen while reading, like those proctors want you to do during standardized tests in high school). Now, if an Audible purchase automatically conferred an ebook download, I'd definitely keep it. But if I have to buy the same book twice, I'm not sure it's worth it.

Re:Software Quality

[reub2000]

It says the interface is more like the Kindle Fire. I wonder if that means that they're using android on this device?

Paper White!! Wait, what?

[DeTech]

I saw paperwhite and was hoping this was a resurgence for E-Ink. Sadly no, it's not.

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[BorgDrone]

Was e-ink ever gone ? No LCD beats it for long reading sessions.

I'm actually looking forward to that illuminated display.

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you talking about? It IS E-ink. There's just a built in light that you can either use or not use.

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[crankyspice]

I saw paperwhite and was hoping this was a resurgence for E-Ink. Sadly no, it's not.

It's e-Ink, at least according to http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/06/kindle-paperwhite/. It would have to be, to have an 8 week runtime.

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

It *is* e-ink, what do you mean?

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[aliquis]

It's not a higher res somewhat higher contrast e-ink kindle?

I thought it was. Why don't you? Are you misunderstanding anything? Am I?

Surely it's a regular 6 inch Kindle? Just better?

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[SuperKendall]

Was e-ink ever gone ? No LCD beats it for long reading sessions.

I didn't find that to be the case for previous e-ink kindles, the lower contrast was like looking at dirty paper and bothered me enough I preferred LCD's for hours of reading.

The new Paperwhite display looks like a winner to me though, finally realizing the full potential of electronic paper along with a great lighting solution. I think it could be the first e-ink I really do find preferable to an LCD, and it has a decent PPI for rendering text.

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[Kinwolf]

It is e-ink, with a frontlight. The summary is wrong in saying backlight.

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

I read it as paper weight, which is probably exactly what happens if you try to root it.

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[DeTech]

Yup definitely e-ink, thank you confusing article... Let's not mention the most distinguish feature of the display and just start spooging numbers like apple owns this joint.

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was hoping that they would use a Color e-ink display. They do exist, but they decided to get an upgrade black and white e-ink display instead.

Re:Paper White!! Wait, what?

[nurb432]

No it cant be beat, but as they move towards multimedia devices ( higher profit margin on purchases ) i don't see a bright long term future for our ink.

But i haven't lost hope yet.

The B&N side lit ink i hear isn't that great, time will tell if Amazon got it any better. ( but i still want larger and color dammit )

kindle color would have been nice

[Anonymous Coward]

color kindle screen where art thou

Are you sure it's not e-ink?

[SuperKendall]

I thought it was e-ink with a special kind of backlighting.

But I can't really tell from the story link, it doesn't say lcd or e-ink...

Re:Are you sure it's not e-ink?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course it is e-ink. Damn thing has an 8-week battery life.

Base line kindles have always been e-ink

Re:Are you sure it's not e-ink?

[Anonymous Coward]

it's e-ink with a "fiber optic" layer that lights from above.

Re:Are you sure it's not e-ink?

[RabidReindeer]

I thought it was e-ink with a special kind of backlighting.

But I can't really tell from the story link, it doesn't say lcd or e-ink...

No, it's e-ink with a special kind of FRONTlighting.

Re:Backlit?!

[Pahroza]

It's NOT BACKLIT. Submitter wasn't paying attention. It's an illuminated display, you can turn it off.

Not suspect, that was the highlight

[SuperKendall]

They made a big deal in a comparison slide about how the data plan was just $50 for a year of 256mb/month data. I believe that was even global!

That's a pretty impressive arrangement.

I do wonder if it will be undercut a bit by shared data plans the carriers are just starting to offer. Bringing a 4G iPad into a home that already has two iPhones means only $10/month extra device fee... that's still $120 though.

Re:Not suspect, that was the highlight

[farble1670]

That's a pretty impressive arrangement.

not so much.

on my phone, i use 250MB in 3 days or so. i just checked my nexus 7, and it has used 2GB is a week, and it's sitting idle 90% of the day. if you just left a tablet idle for a month it'd use over 250MB (because of various apps that are performing background data transfers ... like email, IM, weather, news, and other basic things everyone has on their device).

250MB is enough to download e-books and read email occasionally. you are SOL of you have ideas of downloading music or movies or streaming anything or playing online games.

Re:Not suspect, that was the highlight

[SuperKendall]

not so much.

on my phone, i use 250MB in 3 days or so. i just checked my nexus 7, and it has used 2GB is a week

Sure, but at home the device will mostly be on WiFi.

256MB/month is actually quite a lot of data if you are mostly around WiFi.

you are SOL of you have ideas of downloading music or movies or streaming anything or playing online games.

Music or movies you would have downloaded at home. Online games (especially online tablet games) do not usually use up THAT much bandwidth.

Re:Not suspect, that was the highlight

[farble1670]

so basically, 250MB is plenty as long as you never need to use it. fine, use wifi at home, but if you are actually ever on the road, 250MB isn't enough to do anything but light surfing and download an ebook or two. pay your $50 / year and hundreds of dollars more up front for a service you don't need.

Re:Not suspect, that was the highlight

[Desler]

It's only meant for light surfing and downloading ebooks. It's not meant for running BluRay torrents on.

Re:Not suspect, that was the highlight

[SuperKendall]

It also means reading state is properly synced all the time.

I have an iPhone, without trying especially to conserve data my cellular usage is around 300 MB/month. That's using maps, using the web when out and about, checking email. 256MB is a lot more useful than you are making out especially for more casual data users that are mostly reading.

Re:Not suspect, that was the highlight

[farble1670]

yes, i said that. that's why it's fairly worthless, and misleading. the fire is promoted as a general-purpose content consumption device for music, video, apps and games, not an e-reader.

also, a 1/2 hour video optimized for mobile playback will exceed 250MB. your comment about blue-ray quality is misleading.

Re:Not suspect, that was the highlight

[farble1670]

the kindle fire is promoted as a content consumption device. that means cloud based apps, online gaming, music, video, movies, and streaming. with that type of usage, 250MB is nothing.

Re:Not suspect, that was the highlight

[Desler]

Of which most people will use their WiFi for intensive data downloading or purchase more data. Just because you use up 250 megs in 5 minutes doesn't mean everyone will. Plenty of people live just fine on 250 meg data plans. This device is clearly not for you, doesn't mean millions of others will have no use for it.

Re:Not suspect, that was the highlight

[jp10558]

But as a e-book reader, is there really much call for 4G data? I mean, wouldn't you generally load your books wherever you have wifi and (like with physical books) just bring them with you out and about? If you already have a smartphone, you're not using it for net access really...

Re:Not suspect, that was the highlight

[SuperKendall]

But as a e-book reader, is there really much call for 4G data? I mean, wouldn't you generally load your books wherever you have wifi and (like with physical books) just bring them with you out and about?

Yes, for two reasons:

1) You want the device to sync at all times, since you would usually read the thing not when you were somewhere you wanted to be.

2) When traveling, WiFi is always spotty and it's often the case you want more books.

8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[cpu6502]

Interesting change in wording. That means 56 days of reading 1-hour per day instead of 62 days. Meanwhile Barnes advertises "over 2 months" for their nooks.

Also the 4G version probably won't have free web surfing (like the kindle keyboard has).

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[oji-sama]

Interesting change in wording. That means 56 days of reading 1-hour per day instead of 62 days. Meanwhile Barnes advertises "over 2 months" for their nooks.

Are you quite sure?

Barnes on Nook Glowlight:
Read for over 1 month on a single charge with GlowLight on (based on a half hour of daily reading time)1 Read for over 2 months with GlowLight off (based on a half hour of daily reading time)1

Amazon on Kindle Paperwhite:
"So we worked on our power management — Kindle paperwhite can get eight weeks of battery life even with the light on.

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[Kinwolf]

That's one thing I love about the Kindle line, they always had incredible battery life. It's only major con is lack of native Epub support.

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[cpu6502]

Thanks for the correction. :-) Sounds like amazon's glowing ebook lasts about 3 weeks longer than the Nook Glow. Ya know..... it would be simpler for customers if they just used "hours":

"The Glow last over 30 hours with glowlight; over 60 hours without glowlight." - "Amazon Paperwhite lasts 56 hours even with the light..... almost double that without."

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[oji-sama]

Ya know..... it would be simpler for customers if they just used "hours":

"The Glow last over 30 hours with glowlight; over 60 hours without glowlight." - "Amazon Paperwhite lasts 56 hours even with the light..... almost double that without."

It would be simpler for us, but I believe that for most customers that half an hour a day value (I hope they at least have the same daily amount) does give a better estimate on how long they can actually use the device without recharging ^.^ Actually, a value over 20 hours is all I would need...

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[c 0xFF]

Also, Bezos says it's 2 months with the light turned on. Which is quite simply amazing, and much more than what B&N advertises.

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[phil_aychio]

It's Marketing 101...'weeks' and 'months' sound way more impressive than hours, even if 'weeks' and 'months' actual values may differ from the normal understanding of said values (7 days and 28-31 days, respectively) or even the two competitors conveyance of these values.

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[Jeremy Erwin]

*based on a half hour of daily reading.

My commute is longer than half an hour. I have a steering wheel mount for my kindle, and
uh

gotta go, there's a police car blinking its lights.

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except if you do the math from Amazons own page: 8 weeks @ 30 minutes a day gives: 8 weeks * 7 days/week * 30 min/day = 1680 minutes or (1680 minutes / 60min/hour = ) 28 hours, so it is worse then the Nook.

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[cpu6502]

Well the measurement seems silly. "8 weeks" if you read only half an hour per day. I read for much longer than half an hour a day. More typical is 1-2 hours while waiting for something good to appear on the TV, and 8 hours straight on weekends. Most avid readers would be lucky to get one week rather than the marketing-speak of eight weeks.

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[oji-sama]

Indeed, simpler for us.

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[Man Eating Duck]

That's one thing I love about the Kindle line, they always had incredible battery life. It's only major con is lack of native Epub support.

Format-shifting isn't really an issue with automatic deDRM in Calibre (google Apprentice Alf). I would actually recommend a Sony Reader because of epub support, mine is a two year old PRS-650, it's so damn good I haven't seen a need to upgrade to a newer model. The Kindle has online features, but I don't really have a use for them. Yeah, it's Sony, but I'll happily give them my money for a device which interferes so little with my reading. I haven't even "authorised" it, it works perfectly well.

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[Man Eating Duck]

Well the measurement seems silly. "8 weeks" if you read only half an hour per day. I read for much longer than half an hour a day. More typical is 1-2 hours while waiting for something good to appear on the TV, and 8 hours straight on weekends. Most avid readers would be lucky to get one week rather than the marketing-speak of eight weeks.

I read about as much as you do, and my Sony reader started out needing a recharge about every other week. Now the capacity is down to about a week, but it's still a non-issue, as I'll just occasionally leave it plugged in for half an hour after updating its library. I have never been close to running out of juice.

Re:8 weeks instead of 2 months battery?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the correction. :-)

Who are you and what have you done with cpu6502?

Backlit? Frontlit?

[Overzeetop]

I think the terms you are looking for are frontlit and thick. Still, I'm a bit disappointed that the DX is such an ugly stepchild. Certainly there's a market for a reasonably priced larger format e-reader.

I'm thinking about returning my recently acquired kindle gen 4 since I may not get to use it much in the next month, and a built in light is a major feature.

Re:Backlit? Frontlit?

[alexo]

I think the terms you are looking for are frontlit and thick. Still, I'm a bit disappointed that the DX is such an ugly stepchild. Certainly there's a market for a reasonably priced larger format e-reader.

I was contemplating getting the Onyx Boox M92 for my parents but the almost $400 price seems steep.
Unfortunately the models without the bells and whistles (M92S, M92SM) seem to only be available in Russia (and cost about the same as the full-featured M92 in the west).

Re:Backlit?!

[Dr_Barnowl]

I always thought you could do backlit e-ink by making the white component flourescent and providing a UV LED backlight ; I wonder if that's how it works.

Great point

[SuperKendall]

Now I remember why I thought it was e-ink.

The backlighting is not like LCD backlighting. It looked really interesting from the displays, and they claimed it was just like having ambient light on a page.

$49/year plan has 250MB data cap

[crazyjj]

Just thought I should add that the $49/yr plan has the same 250MB/month data cap that they've already put into place for existing Kindle 3G's. So don't go thinking that $49 is going to get you much.

Re:$49/year plan has 250MB data cap

[cpu6502]

>>>250MB/month data cap

Only applies when you're outside the U.S. While I'm inside the states I surf on my kindle keyboard 3G as much as I want..... reading facebook, ebay, wikipedia, etc.

All this technology...

[JThaddeus]

...and computing sales tax on a state-by-state business is too difficult for them. Bah!

Re:All this technology...

[h4rr4r]

Sales tax is not state by state, it is county by county or in some states town by town.

I have been involved in projects to do this and it is a huge PITA. State sales tax is easy, town or county are hard since zip codes and other such normal address data do not tell you if they are within a town/county or not.

Re:All this technology...

[cpu6502]

>>>computing sales tax on a state-by-state business is too difficult for them

Actually Amazon collects use* tax in ~10 different states, so you're hitting them without reason. Weird observation though: They only charge me 1.5% instead of the full 6%. Guess the computation IS difficult after all.

*
*It's called a "use" tax not a sales tax when the product originates from a non-resident seller. And it only applies to Amazon not the private sellers.

Re:All this technology...

[Solandri]

This really needs to be handled at the Federal government level. The way it's done right now is ludicrous. You have companies which purport to provide updated tax tables. They have to monitor every municipal government in the country for any new or changes to the sales taxes. Basically the equivalent of polling in CompSci. The thing is, none of them will indemnify you against errors they make. If they screw up and you've been charging the too little tax for a week, you have to pay for the shortfall, not them.

The Federal government should makes a sales tax website. States, counties, and cities report their sales/use tax rates to this website. Businesses can then download the latest tax tables from the site every day. If a local government fails to update their tax rate, then they're responsible for losing out on any uncollected taxes. If a business fails to update its tax tables, then it's responsible for any uncollected taxes. No shifting of liability, no stupid polling, no duplicated work.

Re:All this technology...

[bjwest]

Why is it hard? The tax rates are all available from the state in a database listed by county and city, and you have the buyers address and zip code. I've made plenty of online purchases where I'm asked during checkout if I'm within the city limits or not.

I'm not defending internet taxes here, and don't think they should be allowed, but this bull shit about them being hard to calculate is, well, BULL SHIT. If the state is going to require you to collect taxes for them, they have to give you all the information you need to collect those taxes accurately. Businesses within the state with online presence don't seem to have a problem getting the rates, why should an online only business?

Now back to the story.. The Paperwhite may just be what pulls me into an ereader purchase.

Re:All this technology...

[h4rr4r]

The tax rates available from the state generally is only updated once a year, and not at the same time as the county/town. This means you have to buy a subscription to a service to handle this, and they well may not be 100% up to date either. Then you have to check if the user in the county/town whatever, for practical reasons they means asking like you have seen.

Hard is the wrong word though, it is not a hard problem just one you have to solve over and over. The real problem is when you find out you did it wrong for a location, which will happen. Then your lawyer decides what you do about it.

Re:All this technology...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called a "use" tax to dodge the constitutional restriction that says that states can't tax interstate commerce.

Re:All this technology...

[cpu6502]

>>>It's called a "use" tax to dodge the constitutional restriction that says that states can't tax interstate commerce.

States can tax their own citizens though. I buy a product out of state; I possess it. Therefore I must pay the tax.

Re:All this technology...

[Anonymous Coward]

So when a State works around Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the Constitution (which clearly says that only the Federal government has the authority to regulate commerce among the states) by charging you a Use Tax, you find this to be A-Okay.

But when the Feds try and work around the 10th Amendment (which clearly states that since universal healthcare is not a power granted to the Federal government, only the States may enact such a thing) by charging a Universal Healthcare Tax, suddenly it's an over-reach of their bounds.

Re:Backlit?!

[binarylarry]

The Kindle Fire was the original successful 7" android tablet.

Apple is going to be releasing their Fire knock off soon and the nexus came out a few months ago.

I first read that as....

[Anonymous Coward]

the Kindle "Paperweight" =P

I read "Paperweight" instead of "Paperwhite"

[joelsanda]

I read "Paperweight" instead of "Paperwhite"

Re:I read "Paperweight" instead of "Paperwhite"

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not alone. I wonder how many other readers thought the same but like myself thought "let someone else say it first".

Re:I read "Paperweight" instead of "Paperwhite"

[Dayze!Confused]

I thought it was going to be an article critical of the new Kindle, and had to read the article before realizing I had misread the title. I wonder what genius at Amazon thought that Paperwhite is a good word? It's awkward to say and is so similar to paperweight that people will confuse it all the time.

Re:I read "Paperweight" instead of "Paperwhite"

[Cinder6]

I keep thinking of it as Paperwight, which is an entirely different image than Amazon wants to convey, I'm sure. Although, the idea of reading on a paper wraith is strangely appealing, if fraught with danger.

Re:I read "Paperweight" instead of "Paperwhite"

[SleazyRidr]

Amazon just isn't very good at naming things. When I first saw the headlines about the Kindle Fire coming out, I thought there'd been some instances where people's Kindle's had caught fire. Now they're bringing out the Paperweight, what's next?

They've done the statistics

[ruckerz2k]

250mb a month is way too low. The telcos are looking to profit on the very high probability of overages charges on this one.

$159 for 7" Fire (non HD)

[sl4shd0rk]

Which is a sweet price for a 7" tablet as long as it can be rooted and ROM'd.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/09/amazon-shows-off-new-kindle-fire-shipping-sept-14-for-159/

Re:$159 for 7" Fire (non HD)

[Lumpy]

not really. $199 for a nexus 7 that is guarenteed to be rootable easily and rom'd easily. I'll pay an additional $50.00 to not have to screw around. And get better hardware to boot.

OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[bluefoxlucid]

OMAP 4470 "Can outperform the Tegra 3"? The Tegra 3 has 1.2-1.7 GHz QUAD CORE ARM Cortex-A9 application-optimized cores with NEON. The OMAP 4470 has 1.5-1.8GHz DUAL CORE ARM Cortex-A9 application optimized cores with NEON. You know that means the slowest Tegra has 1/3 more processing power available than the fastest OMAP 4470, and its single-core speed is 2/3 that of the OMAP? If you went with the Tegra 3 T33 used in the Asus T700 at 1.7GHz, you'd have 95% of the single core speed and 90% more total processing power available.

There is no way you can outperform the Tegra 3.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[msauve]

You don't understand systems, do you?

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[Bryansix]

I know its 2012 and all but not everything is multi-threaded for quad core optimization. The faster clockrate may in fact yield better results in some cases.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[bluefoxlucid]

Yes but in this case the nominal clockrates are the same and the fastest clockrates are a whopping 5% away from each other at 100MHz distance. If you have a single task keeping your processor pegged above 95% for any appreciable time (a few mS for an interactive task like drawing the screen), you have other problems or you're doing a batch task that should only take a few seconds anyway.

The fact of the matter is having 4 cores helps when your phone is your media player and you want the OS to be able to do housekeeping in the background, respond quickly to user inputs, keep the screen updated, continue animating that live wallpaper, get your e-mail, download a text message, etc. Hell, watching video is insane because you have to de-encapsulate the video (i.e. out of the OGG/AVI/Matroska container) and then simultaneously decode audio and video in real-time (called Demuxing). If you tap the screen and have to wait 40mS for free processing power instead of 1mS, the phone lags ever so slightly and you say it's "a little jerky". You can no longer smoothly slide the system bar open from the top.

Between the two, 5% CPU power isn't going to make a damn bit of difference and 2 extra cores is going to make your phone way more responsive if it ever does happen to be loaded in a way that makes that 5% suddenly important.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[bluefoxlucid]

I understand that both of these things use the same processor core design, and that they're within 5% of each other in terms of raw single core speed, and that one of these has twice as many cores available and so if you ever DO peg the system with a couple threads or have it under enough continuous load that you might have to wait a moment to halt a process and state save and context switch out to the interrupt handler and new process (i.e. screen draw, etc) that you won't get lag and jerky responsiveness.

Of course a modern phone currently won't load an OMAP 4470 enough for this to be an issue. But really, they're the same thing, just one at its highest tier clocks its execution unit 100MHz slower than the other, and the other at its highest tier has the ability to concurrently run only half as many execution threads. The half as many threads thing is the bigger of the two. FFS they're SOC with integrated memory controllers and north bridges and such, everything is right there, they're both well-tuned systems.

This is like saying a dual core 3.0GHz Core i3 Intel outperforms a 2.8GHz Core i5 Intel. It's a dumb statement from the more-gigahertz crowd who measure everything by FPS in Doom 3 and think 100MHz is massive.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[afidel]

You're forgetting the SGX554, clock for clock it's twice as powerful as the GeForce ULP.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[msauve]

You're like the NASCAR fan who can't understand why their favorite car could never be competitive in Formula 1.

You're focused exclusively on processing speed, you've totally ignored power consumption, display functions, and surrounding support chips. As I said, you don't understand systems, or the difference between raw speed and performance. If Amazon says the OMAP provides better performance, I believe them, since they have to take very much more into account than just MIPS.

Oh, and you've gotten your facts very wrong. The OMAP 4470 is a 4 core processor, and the Tegra is a 5 core processor. The OMAP, in addition to the 2 A9 cores, it has 2 M3 cores, which consume only 32 uW/MHz (a regular A9 core consumes ~300 uW/MHz at its most efficient) . This is very likely why it outperforms the Tegra in this application.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[Tr3vin]

You're forgetting the SGX554, clock for clock it's twice as powerful as the GeForce ULP.

THIS. In mobile, the GPU tends to be a bit more important than raw CPU power. This is because we are doing a lot of pixel pushing to render the final UI. On something like the Tegra 2, the UI could be slow because the fill-rate on Tegra 2 was comparatively low. A SOC with a better GPU but worse CPU would feel much smoother when navigating the UI. It is not often that you are maxing out a core, let alone four of them.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[Goaway]

Last I counted, the OMAP 4 has at least seven cores. Two Cortex-A9, one DSP, two Cortex-M3, and two ARM11.

The only ones that really do any useful work there are the A9s, though. The DSP is fairly slow and the rest are just peripheral controllers.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[msauve]

Can you provide a reference for your claim that the 4470 has 2 ARM11s?

DSP may technically be a core, but it's certainly not general purpose. The M3s are definitely not simply "peripheral controllers." In this application, I suspect Amazon is taking advantage of their power/cycle economy, and using them to build fill frame buffers slowly behind the scenes for the next page, while the user is reading the current one.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[Cinder6]

But, but...NEON...

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[Goaway]

Can you provide a reference for your claim that the 4470 has 2 ARM11s?

The data sheet: http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/swpu270m/swpu270m.pdf

DSP may technically be a core, but it's certainly not general purpose.

There is a Linux port to it, so I don't think you can get much more general-purpose than that. It's specialized for certain kinds of tasks, but it can be used as a general-purpose processor.

The M3s are definitely not simply "peripheral controllers." In this application, I suspect Amazon is taking advantage of their power/cycle economy, and using them to build fill frame buffers slowly behind the scenes for the next page, while the user is reading the current one.

I think you are confusing the Fire and the Paperwhite.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[msauve]

re:ARM11 cores "The data sheet"

No mention there.

The device is composed of the following subsystems:
- Cortex-A9 microprocessor unit (MPU) subsystem, including two ARM Cortex-A9 cores
- Digital signal processor (DSP) subsystem
- Image and video accelerator high-definition (IVA-HD) subsystem
- Cortex-M3 MPU subsystem, including two ARM Cortex-M3 microprocessors
- Display subsystem
- Audio back-end (ABE) subsystem
- Imaging subsystem (ISS), consisting of image signal processor (ISP) and still image coprocessor (SIMCOP) block
- 2D/3D graphic accelerator subsystems (SGX and BB2D)
- Emulation (EMU) subsystem

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[Goaway]

You have to actually dig into the meat of the data sheet to find them. See the diagram on page 275, for instance. Also, I think I misremembered, they might be ARM9.

Re:OMAP 4470 can't do shit

[bluefoxlucid]

The Tegra 3 only runs in a mode with 4 cores running at once, or in a low-power single-core mode on a low-power-consumption core that should top out at 500. OMAP specs say it's dual-core, I would hazard a guess that the 2 M3 cores are also low-power cores and it doesn't run all 4 at once just like the Tegra 3 doesn't run all 5 at once.

Re:Backlit?!

[SilverJets]

Article claims backlit as well.
"But first, Bezos showed off a new version of the Kindle e-reader, the Kindle Paperwhite, complete with a backlit, higher-resolution screen (221 pixels-per-inch and 25 percent more contrast, according to Amazon). "

Has anyone on Slashdot actually seen one? Is it front-lit or back-lit?

Steve jobs would never have allowed this

[alen]

Steve jobs would never have allowed this to happen

He would have had bezos killed by his secret ninja assassins a long time ago

Re:Steve jobs would never have allowed this

[PolygamousRanchKid]

He would have had bezos killed by his secret ninja assassins a long time ago

No, Apple would have sued Amazon, because they have a patent on the shape of Jeff Bezos' head.

Re:Steve jobs would never have allowed this

[swb]

Bezos uploads a backup of himself daily to S3. You can't kill him, you can only return him to the last backup point.

To kill Bezos, you have have to kill S3.

Re:Steve jobs would never have allowed this

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is preparing to ban the Samsung Galaxy SIII. Does that count?

Re:Steve jobs would never have allowed this

[Rotag_FU]

I just want to say that I thought this was one of the funniest things I've read all week. Thank you!

I wonder if this could start a whole new meme in the same vein as Chuck Norris jokes?

Re:Steve jobs would never have allowed this

[Anonymous Coward]

Secret ninja assassins opened their stomachs to cover the shame. Bezos fired his orbital kindle-ray and caused cancer to Steve Jobs. Amazon won. Apple will slowly degrade, product launch by product launch, until Amazon buys off Apple, just to grind them up as packaging material for Kindles.

Re:Steve jobs would never have allowed this

[msauve]

"Steve jobs ... would have had bezos killed by his secret ninja assassins a long time ago"

You're forgetting about the pirates which travel the Amazon.

The crossover

[SuperKendall]

and a nice horribly slow refresh rate, no games, no netflix, or any other useful application.

Not true of the Fire which fixes all of those problems and still gives you the first two things listed (lending and cheap SF).

The eInk kindle cannot replace a tablet, no, it simply makes for a great companion to a tablet...

And if you like the eInk Kindle why would you not start to consider the Fire?

Re:The crossover

[mikestew]

And if you like the eInk Kindle why would you not start to consider the Fire?

Because if I want an eye-searing backlit reader to use after the lights go out, I'll use my wife's iPad 3 which has a much better DPI than the Fire. Horses for courses, and for reading I'll use my e-ink Kindle whenever I can (and maybe I'll get the new Paperweight to solve the after-dark problem). When I want to use a tablet for tablety stuff, the Fire is not my first choice.

Hardware good, software not so much

[JDG1980]

The hardware seems good for the price, but I'm not at all thrilled with Amazon's custom software. The Kindle Fire HD might be a good deal if they get CyanogenMod working on it. A resolution of 1920x1080 on a 8.9-inch tablet doesn't quite match Apple's 10" @ 2048x1536, but it comes pretty close and is $200 cheaper. Strangely, no articles seem to say what the resolution will be on the smaller 7-inch Kindle Fire HD.

Re:Hardware good, software not so much

[ThatsMyNick]

HD usually means 1920x1080. Unless they got the naming wrong (and get sued for misleading advertising), the 7" should be 1920x1800 too.

Re:Hardware good, software not so much

[ThatsMyNick]

Er, make that 1920x1080 (sorry about the typo)

Re:Hardware good, software not so much

[Jeremy Erwin]

No, HD is 1280*720. Sucker.

Re:Hardware good, software not so much

[cpu6502]

>>>A resolution of 1920x1080 on a 8.9-inch tablet doesn't quite match Apple's 10" @ 2048x1536

The Kindle Fire is designed to consume Amazon product: Books, music, and video. It does not need to be higher than their highest-res product (1920x1080 video).

Re:Hardware good, software not so much

[Anonymous Coward]

Ars Technica says it's 1920x1200 for the 8.9 inch model, 1280x800 for the 7 inch HD version and 1024x600 for the basic 7 inch version.

Re:WAY too little too late.

[Bryansix]

Why would I give up one walled garden to go to another? With Android you have choice. With iWhatever you have the current Generation and the old Generation. I want choice.

Re:Backlit?!

[Kinwolf]

It is fronlit, like the Nook Glow. http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/06/amazon-officially-announces-the-new-kindle-paperwhite-paperwhite-display-frontlighting-and-212-ppi/

HD?

[Anonymous Coward]

They rename it HD and noone has thought to list the new screen's resolution? Is it HD or not?

nope.jpg

[wasabioss]

In other words that's about twice as expensive as $20 for 2GB that I pay to my cell phone company.

Your calculation is wrong, but even if your calculation was right, it would certainly not be the case. People don't use up to their limit all the time. $20 for 2GB, $10 for 1GB or $5 for 500MB or $1 for 100MB are certainly not the same plan. I would be super happy to have a $1 for 100MB, pretty upset with $10 for 1GB and feel ripped off with $100 for 10GB.

Re:Backlit?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I watched the live presentation. It is a front lit display using a new technology to light the front of the display using nanoimprinted light channels in the glass. It acts like ambient light but it is not a backlight in any way shape or form. It also claims 8 weeks of battery life with the light on. I guess the closest thing you could call it is redirected side lighting? The live blog from gizmodo has a picture of the tech as it was show on the bigscreen. http://live.gizmodo.com/page5.html.

No page turn buttons :(

[Anonymous Coward]

Why why why Amazon? Pretty much everything about the new Kindle sounds great except for the lack of page turn buttons. I'm still using my 3rd generation Kindle and I'd love to upgrade it to a higher contrast screen with built in lighting, but touchscreen-only navigation is a killer. It makes one handed reading more difficult and uncomfortable, will cause screen smudges, and will be nearly impossible to operate with gloves.

Re:No page turn buttons :(

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the same thing until I actually started using the touch. I had the previous generation before and it got stolen. I thought the lack of page turn buttons would bother me, but after about an hour worth of reading I got used to it and like it just fine. What I really don't like about the touch is the light on Amazon's lighted case, you have to hold it down at an angle so it doesn't shine right in your eyes (probably because it was designed to light up the Amazon logo at the top of the Kindle), the light on the previous generation case was much better. Since this new one has a built in frontlight, if they did a good job with it that'll solve that problem and make it worth it to me to upgrade solely for the light.

Re:No page turn buttons :(

[coljac]

This was my reaction exactly. However I've never tried a Kindle touch, and imagined there was some sort of swipe gesture required. I just had a look on youtube though and it seems pretty tolerable.

Re:No page turn buttons :(

[Cinder6]

I initially bought a non-Touch Kindle for this reason. I later tried out a Touch at a store and realized it was fine. Wound up returning the one I bought and got the Touch. The touch area for navigating to the next page is very large--I can easily hit it with my thumb, even though I'm left-handed.

That said, I still want physical buttons. Their omission is just not a deal breaker for me.

Re:No page turn buttons :(

[Anonymous Coward]

One handed reading is still possible (as I confirmed on previous Nook and Kindle models). Screen smudges aren't a problem as you may think. Screens are easily wiped with a microfiber cloth. And if you wash your hands.

And who the fuck reads with gloves on?

Re:No page turn buttons :(

[dell623]

I get the point about gloves, but a quick swipe to turn the page really isn't that hard, especially with a capacitive touch screen.

E-ink screens don't get smudged because they aren't covered with the glossy glassy stuff found on LCD screens.

Re:No page turn buttons :(

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry but you're kinda drifting into the realm of first world problems there mate.

Re:No page turn buttons :(

[will_die]

Had no problems with smudges and working with gloves is not a problem, it using pressure not an electrical current. I have had problems with the page moving because I brush my shirt sleeve across the area.

Re:No page turn buttons :(

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Nook Touch and while the touch is ok and I use it sometimes, I'm very glad that I have page turning buttons as well.

No page turning buttons = a deal breaker for me.

Re:No page turn buttons :(

[L4t3r4lu5]

I own a Kindle Touch. You tap the screen to navigate pages; The left-most 1/5 of the screen is for back a page, the rest is forward a page. You can easily hook the right hand side of the screen with the base of your thumb, and use the tip to skip pages, or with a decent case you just rest it on your knee and tap when you want. Pressing near the top brings up the menu. Swipe up or down to navigate through chapters.

I've not used a non-touch Kindle, but I can't imagine it being any easier than the Kindle Touch. I would like a little more consistency from the screen; Sometimes it takes a couple of taps to register, sometimes it will skip a page if I stare at it hard enough, but it's so easy to move back again it's hardly an issue.

I love it, but YMMV as always.

Re:No page turn buttons :(

[vlueboy]

Gloves: It's for warmth. Picture yourself walking down a road on a winter morning or sitting on a park bench.
I have NOT done either, but last winter was my first with an android phone and I wished touchscreen tech were glove friendly.

It is a shock that warm hands are INVISIBLE to your efforts to put pressure on a brittle screen. Then you wonder if you need apply more pressure, and it's obvious what the end result could be.

Paperwhite?

[Anonymous Coward]

Paperwhite sounds like a Japanese marketing team put their heads together and decided to market this thing by mashing two English words together. (I wish that was a joke, but they actually do stuff like that.)

Re:Paperwhite?

[93 Escort Wagon]

A Paperwhite is actually a type of daffodil.

My first reaction

[ATestR]

I first read this as "Kindle Paperweight". The Kindle isn't THAT bad...

Not only that

[Sycraft-fu]

But I think they are annoyed with the idea that they should have to pay, because they are big, but not other online companies. Notice states don't seem to be going after any and all online companies, just Amazon.

Great. Now where's my Android Instant Media app?

[Rastl]

Wonderful. The new hardware is out. Now where's my Android app to let me use the Amazon Prime features? Is there some kind of insurmountable technical reason why they can create one for the iPad but not for an Android phone? Notice I said ~technical~, not ~financial~.

BBC is available in US

[moonwatcher2001]

Why on earth did you think you could use an amazon tablet outside of its home country? I certainly don't expect to be able to hear/watch BBC outside of the UK.

My American publican broadcasting network carries BBC news - both TV and radio.

dataplan goodness

[schlachter]

Why can't all tablets offer $50/yr 250MB/month data plans?
I'm sure they're profitable at this rate.
They can up sell users as well. $10 per GB over the 250MB monthly allowance will allow us to use more data as needed fora reasonable fee.

Re:dataplan goodness

[Sez Zero]

Who's supplying the 4G data? I looked at Amazon briefly and didn't see it named, but it looks like the 4G logo AT&T uses.

Re:Backlit?!

[shutdown -p now]

I would imagine that it's more or less the same thing as Nook GlowLight. Which you can just go and see in store today.

Swipe to change pages?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does everything need to be gestures? My smartphone is covered in finger prints right now. Why does my kindle have to be the same? I have an early gen kindle with page change buttons on both sides and love it. It's literally a thumb wiggle to change pages with the hand already holding the device which is extremely convenient when, for example, I'm standing on the bus one-handing the device and holding on to a pole.

Measurements, not marketing

[gumpish]

9.1mm thin

I want you to stop and think about what you've done.

Re:Measurements, not marketing

[istartedi]

Your comment is lowly complementary.

Still nothing for college textbooks.

[Lumpy]

Kindle DX2 please. 11 inch screen with this new screen tech please.. I know a LOT of people that would kill for an A4 size screen.

Re:Still nothing for college textbooks.

[wiedzmin]

Yes, and this time actually support it please. My original Kindle DX feels about as abandoned as they get - not a single update, unlike the smaller, non-premium cost models, to browser functionality, only one freaking image per periodical... it's ridiculous. I will not buy another Kindle until I see assurance that it isn't going to get ignored, support wise, the same way the original DX has been.

Re:Still nothing for college textbooks.

[nurb432]

Hate to be a 'me too' guy, but i do agree.

Re:Still nothing for college textbooks.

[Clifton Beach]

Kindle DX2 please. 11 inch screen with this new screen tech please.. I know a LOT of people that would kill for an A4 size screen.

Nope: A4 size is 14.3 inches diagonal. US and Canada "letter" size page is 13.9 inches diagonal.

Re:WAY too little too late.

[Lumpy]

"Why would I give up one walled garden to go to another? With Android you have choice."

With the properly chosen android device you have choice. Please dont sugar coat it, the Kindle Fire is android and it has NO choice unless you hack it. In fact the only tablets I know of that give you freedom of choice is the nexus 7 from google. Unlocked bootloader and pure Jellybean os with no crap installed. Unlike the Xoom.

Possibly yes

[SuperKendall]

Wow, they can use the device to make sure kids read?

The parental controls could in theory, allocate the amount of time permitted between apps and books.

I have no idea if they do, but they could.

That doesn't technically make them read but reading on a tablet might be "cool" enough even a kid that did not otherwise want to read would do so.

[citation needed]

[DragonWriter]

The U.S. doesn't allow exports of U.S. copyrighted works w/o permission of the owner.....

Huh. I'm looking at Title 17 of the US Code, and nowhere among the exclusive rights of copyright holders is "export" listed. So, I'm thinking, some kind of evidence supporting this claim would be nice.

and the UK government protects its local artists/authors by not allowing imports unless registered under UK copyrights.

This would suggest that the UK doesn't allow imports of anything that could be subject to copyright unless it had a registered UK copyright. Aside from the fact that this would be impossible to enforce (given the scope of things that are subject to copyright protection and how impossible it would be to verify that for every import it would apply to), this is, like the last, a pretty extraordinary claim for which some evidence would be welcome.

Re:[citation needed]

[cpu6502]

Amazon is not allowed to broadcast videos outside of North America per the contract it signed with the Hollywood company, and as enforced by U.S. copyright law.

>>>impossible to enforce in the UK

Doesn't mean the law doesn't exist. I'm supposed to pay a "use" tax on all items I buy, but never do. Just because a law is hard to enforce doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Amazon is not allowed to broadcast video into the UK, as that would violate the rights of local UK broadcasters. (Just as NBC was not allowed to air Olympics on its UK channel.)

Re:[citation needed]

[DragonWriter]

Amazon is not allowed to broadcast videos outside of North America per the contract it signed with the Hollywood company, and as enforced by U.S. copyright law.

It is extraordinarily misleading to claim that this supports the claim that the US prohibits exports without the copyright holders permission. No "export" -- which would require a tangible good -- is involved here, and the only reason that copyright law might be involved (as opposed to contract law) is because what you call "broadcast" is actually electronic copying, not "export".

If you had a legally-purchased tangible object containing a copy of the data, the copyright holder's lack of permission to export it wouldn't be given any weight in the US.

Re:[citation needed]

[cpu6502]

>>>>It is extraordinarily misleading to claim that this supports the claim that the US prohibits exports without the copyright holders permission.

Apparently you've not heard about the U.S. Government shutting-down a non-U.S. website called Megaupload. The U.S. Government does indeed act in a strong manner to protect copyrights. If Amazon were caught broadcasting videos over to UK kindles, I have no doubt the full weight of the government would fall upon amazon & force them to stop.

Re:[citation needed]

[DragonWriter]

Apparently you've not heard about the U.S. Government shutting-down a non-U.S. website called Megaupload.

Apparently, you didn't read any of the rest of my post except the sentence you quoted, since it addresses exactly the argument you make in your post.

Nice, but i will buy the Nexus 7

[Anonymous Coward]

OMAP4470 Processor. Whats that? Never heard about it. Is it food, can it fly? "It drastically outperforms the Tegra 3.". Lol, what weed did Amazon smoke. X-Ray for Movies. OK, i must admit that would be something i would use very often. Wi-Fi 54% faster than Nexus 7. Emm but ... ok shit thats a point for the kindle. 25 percent less glare. What i'm exspecting is an overall of 0% glare! Kindle Free Time. [sarcasm]Children will love it.[sarcasm/]. 1920x1200, one word, niceeee. But the price, 199$. Are you sure? How is this even possible? Extrem subsidize? It's a really nice device, but not for me. I will buy the Nexus 7.
_______________________
www.gabenative.com
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?hl=en&id=com.gn.android.compass
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?hl=en&id=com.gn.android.flashlight

Greasy fingers

[Anonymous Coward]

I absolutely love my kindle with keyboard and have been waiting for amazon to release something with upgraded screen technology. Now they have and I'm about ready to rush out and pre-order one, but I'm a bit sceptical about it having to buttons for page next/prev. I dont' want my kindle screeen to end up like my ipad. Anyone with experiences here? The last generation of kindle also had a tap to page next and I was wondering if they found it frustrating to look at after a while?

Re:Greasy fingers

[Cinder6]

I never had any problems with it. You tap, you don't swipe. The screen isn't glossy, either, so even if you do get fingerprints, you'll have a harder time noticing them.

Then again, some people might be bothered by it where I'm not. My suggestion? Go to a Best Buy and look at one of the demo units. If fingerprints are ever a problem on Kindles, you'd see it there. If the screen still looks fine, then you should be good. Unless, of course, they clean the things... (Hint: look at the nearby tablets to see if they do!)

Altered Carbon - this is the main plotline

[rsborg]

Check it out - fantastic dialogue and impressive realization of future tech: downloadable personas, backups, and lots of drugs and guns. Quite an enjoyable read:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40445.Altered_Carbon

Re:Altered Carbon - this is the main plotline

[swb]

Hah, where do you think I got the idea? Irony points: I read it via Kindle app on the iPad.

Are you fucking insane?

[Overzeetop]

Really, is Android so phenomenally inferior to Apple that your devices use that much data at idle? Makes me feel much better about my iPad purchase.

I have had an iPhone (and iPad(s)) for about 3 years. In that time, I have exceeded 250MB per month twice. Once was on a trip to NY where I got stuck in a hotel with $10/day wifi and crap for TV for a couple of hours each night while my then 4 year old daughter was ready for bed by 8pm. I surfed the whole time. The other time was on my iPad on a non-wifi train & bus trip back that was 16 hours round trip. By the end, I got bored and was watching youtube vidoes.

Most months I hover around 60MB on my phone and 100-200 on my iPad. I have 200/250MB accounts because they are cheap - $15/mo - and I don't need to stream much of anything. For the cost of the next plan up ($30/mo), I get 64GB of on-device storage which is enough to carry nearly everything I need on a daily basis. I still get email from both my work and personal accounts, do all my calendaring and Google Voice on the phone, get weather updates - including radar maps, use it for GPS (though I use Navigon because I travel to areas without cell coverage), IM, Facebook (way too much), as well as a host of productivity apps. I'll even fire up NPR from time to time when I'm out of range of their OTA signal but in cell range (rarely, I admit). I'm run a small consulting business, so there's no lack of data coming into and going out of my phone.

Unless you're going to graphics heavy pages, streaming video, or streaming audio for significant time while off wifi then sure - you need more data. But for the non-streaming user, 250MB of mobile data a month is going to cover almost all of it. I would happily jump at a $50/yr plan on my iPad and my phone if I were limited to "only" 250MB/mo.

Re:Are you fucking insane?

[farble1670]

yes, i hate to admit it, but apple has this magical compression algorithm so they can transfer the same data but use 1/4 the bandwidth. unfortunately, they have patented that so no one else can use it.

Unless you're going to graphics heavy pages, streaming video, or streaming audio for significant time while off wifi then sure - you need more data. But for the non-streaming user, 250MB of mobile data a month is going to cover almost all of it. I would happily jump at a $50/yr plan on my iPad and my phone if I were limited to "only" 250MB/mo.

and what is the kindle fire's purpose? reading web pages with lynx and accessing content from your SD card? it's a content consumption device. it's made to access amazon's store front to purchase and play digital media from amazon. but right, you wouldn't expect anyone to say want to stream a movie from AMAZON video on demand or AMAZON cloud drive, right?

Reason to have 6 as a mod score

[Overzeetop]

This so many times over my head hurts. Oh, and at the same kind of price as a standard Kindle.The eink screen is about $30-40 for a 6" size. presuming there are no barriers to production of a larger size, an 10-11" screen should be on the order of $130-$140. Tack $125 onto it and go. Adding $300 is just insulting.

*yawn*

[nurb432]

No cheaper DX sized ink device? No color ink? Yet another "tablet" ( dedicated multimedia consumption device ) in an already saturated market of low end LCD devices?

Thanks for nothing of any value. Perhaps B&N will deliver this Christmas.

Worked for me

[SuperKendall]

I wonder what genius at Amazon thought that Paperwhite is a good word? It's awkward to say and is so similar to paperweight that people will confuse it all the time.

I don't think so, I saw it and right away I was taken with the name.

I think it's brilliant because the remaining people who do not have eInk Kindles but use Kindle, is that the old displays were too grey.

The new name clarifies right away this is not your grandfathers eInk, it's 25% brighter and smiles all around.

People don't really think about parperweights anymore, but have been trained by advertisers to really pay attention to the word "white" in anything so I think that will remain clear to most people.

All around I thought Amazon had a fantastic round of product launches with some really good ideas in each category.

I call bullshit

[b4dc0d3r]

I call bullshit, because it wasn't in the article, and I can't be arsed to find more info based on a Slashvertisement.

The people who modded you up could have spent their time citing something to support your claim, but did not.

I have a DX, and I prefer it to a tablet/notebook/laptop/phone by about 100%. I prefer it to a book by about 99%. I don't like having to hold pages open, but I do like a physical book to hold. I do not like the tablet LED screen, and I will inflict as much physical damage as I can on anyone who tries to separate me and my Kindle.

This article mentions nothing of e-Ink, nothing pf a page light (whatever the hell that is), and nothing whatsoever to support your claims.

I threw it into Google, and came out with some sort of something, which said it was a 6" screen, not 9" like my DX. "Built in lighting" does not sound like e-Ink to me, even though the article tries painfully to illustrate how this happens.

It it not as big as the DX, which is a true e-Ink reader (as opposed to the Kindle Fire), and I see no evidence that a self-lit e-Ink device is in any way a substitute for the e-Ink experience. Mostly, I do not trust a self-lit book to be more than a traditional LED screen, or some radiation hotbed.

Obviously GP reads in bed with what is equivalent to an LCD (iPad). "This is no longer true" is not only understatement - it is completely false.

If you want to read in the dark, an e-ink reader is completely useless

Apparently you meant to respond to that particular bit. The article does not respond to that, I had to actually search for my own reference. I know you are correct, but I still call bullshit on your post due to lack of citations. Did you expect me to just trust you? You, and those who moderated you? Fuck you, I have better things to do with my time. And because my time is now wasted, I intend to educate you, and your moderators.

A tablet reader will be superior to e-Ink in some ways, and vastly inferior in numerous other ways. "This is no longer true" applies to a small part of the post, and assumes that you are in the market for e-Ink instead of a tablet. How bright is the back-lighting? Will it keep awake someone beside you? I would want to know this before buying, reading with my SO asleep or trying to get there, and being kicked out of the bedroom.

For fuck's sake, please understand the context of a post, and therefore both the reply and the moderation, before replying or moderating.

I rate you -1, would not read again.

Re:I call bullshit

[ynp7]

Are you fucking stupid? It's not a back light at all, it's a front light. The new Kindle Paperwhite uses a layer on top of the eInk screen to distribute light from side-mounted LEDs across the display. This is very similar to the NOOK Simple Touch with GlowLight that has been on the market for months. It's also mentioned in the very first sentence of both TFA and TFS (emphasis added):

"Amazon used a Sept. 6 event in California to debut a range of products, including a frontlit Kindle e-reader with a higher-resolution screen, an updated Kindle Fire, and the new Kindle Fire HD in two screen sizes."

Or you could have simply read about it on Amazon: http://amzn.to/UwTOMk.

Re:I call bullshit

[man_of_mr_e]

I see someone shit in your Wheaties this morning. It wasn't me.

It was completely obvious that I was referring to the statement about an e-ink reading being useless in the dark. What's more, virtually every article about the new kindles, including the summary and the article referenced *DO* mention it, even though you can't be arsed to pay attention enough to a) notice the obvious context and b) understand the words in the summary and article.

There's not Reading TFA, and then there's pretending you read it just so you can fly off the handle.

Re:I call bullshit

[RocketRabbit]

Fuck, a front-lit screen like my old Zaurus? Those suck ass through a donkey-dick straw.

Asian e-Readers: Colour e-Ink, Larger

[Anonymous Coward]

Certainly there's a market for a reasonably priced larger format e-reader.

There is, but just not in the US (which is as behind on high-end e-ink readers as it is on high-end tablets and smartphones). For example, Asian consumers have had *colour* e-ink readers for a couple of years now, but US companies keep pushing the antiquated monochrome screens into what is effectively a quite protectionist and patent-encumbered marketplace that retards development. You can import the Hanvon colour e-ink reader through something like Alibaba. Here's a list of some DX-size alternatives.

9.1mm thin?

[1u3hr]

The device weighs 7.5 ounces and is 9.1mm thin

When did it become correct to use the word "thin" to mean "thick"?

If that's right, then why isn't it "7.5 ounces light"?

Why mix imperial and metric units in the same sentence?

Please note: these are rhetorical questions, feel free to respond, but try not to imply I'm too dumb to work out the answer in all cases is "marketing".

Re:9.1mm thin?

[arglebargle_xiv]

The device weighs 7.5 ounces and is 9.1mm thin

When did it become correct to use the word "thin" to mean "thick"? If that's right, then why isn't it "7.5 ounces light"? Why mix imperial and metric units in the same sentence?

I found that pretty bizarre too, particularly the mixing of imperial and standard units. Perhaps it should have read "The device weighs 0.16 oka and is 0.3 attoparsecs thick". That's still imperial units for the first one, but a different empire.

DPI

[manekineko2]

iPad 3 which has a much better DPI than the Fire

iPad 3rd Gen has a resolution of 2048×1536 on a 9.7" screen, giving it a DPI of 264.

Kindle Fire HD 8.9" has a resolution of 1920x1200 on a 8.9" screen, giving it a DPI of 254.

For all intents and purposes, the Kindle Fire HD has the same DPI as the latest iPad.

fire hd = adware

[Anonymous Coward]

Straight from Amazon's description:

Includes special offers and sponsored screensavers.

... and on the Fire models there is no higher-priced option to avoid it.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a good ol' fashioned Slashdot bitchfest about this yet.

educated flies?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you weren't through with the page just say so.

E-ink is great but those screens are FRAGILE

[SD-Arcadia]

I've had not one but two kindle 3's (keyboard, wireless only) end up in this state: http://www.papaspyropoulos.com/my-amazon-kindle-screen-is-messed-up/.
They ended up this way after being transported in a backpack, INSIDE a protective cover, in the company of a few other books (not heavy tomes). There are no visible signs of physical damage on the kindles, yet they are made unusable by mere carrying around. You might guess that some very moderate pressure was applied on the screen by the other books but what is the point of a PORTABLE reader if it can't withstand such little pressure? Amazon replaced the broken item the first time around, but now the warrantee period of 1 year is up. I now consider these devices to be home use only, which is a shame. I've stopped assuming I can carry it around. I don't know if other e-ink screens are also suffering from this frailty or its Amazon's design. YMMV.
A second concern with kindles are the lack of .epub support, which isn't so bad thanks to Calibre's conversion capabilities. But it's still a minor annoyance.
Despite these concerns, I am contemplating on getting a Paperwhite or a Nook Glow. I love the display tech. Just wish these things would be more durable.

Well I'll be...

[wiredog]

S3 is still around.

Reverse Video

[bill_tvm]

Does the new Kindle have reverse video. For reading in dark, reverse video is much better than front-lit or backlit normal text.

No need for buttons

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you can just tap the screen once. It's a lot more convient than a slide or pressing buttons.