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Apache Patch To Override IE 10's Do Not Track Setting

hypnosec writes "A new patch for Apache by Roy Fielding, one of the authors of the Do Not Track (DNT) standard, is set to override the DNT option if the browser reaching the server is Internet Explorer 10. Microsoft has by default enabled DNT in Internet Explorer 10 stating that it is to 'better protect user privacy.' This hasn't gone down well with ad networks, users and other browser makers. According to Mozilla, the DNT feature shouldn't be either in an active state or an inactive state until and unless a user specifically sets it. Along the same lines is the stance adopted by Digital Advertising Alliance. The alliance has revealed that it will only honor DNT if and only if it is not switched on by default. This means advertisers will be ignoring the DNT altogether no matter how a particular browser is set up. The DNT project has another member – Apache. It turns out that Microsoft's stance is like a thorn to Apache as well. Fielding has written a patch for the web server titled 'Apache does not tolerate deliberate abuse of open standards.' The patch immediately sparked a debate, which instigated Fielding to elaborate on his work: 'The only reason DNT exists is to express a non-default option. That's all it does. [...] It does not protect anyone's privacy unless the recipients believe it was set by a real human being, with a real preference for privacy over personalization.'"

375 comments

  1. Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by DcDc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's obvious that its scumbag advertisers and Google (maybe I'm repeating myself here) behind this. They want a way to track every user and all their behaviors. They want things like these to either not exist or be disabled by default. They live for all the user data they can gather. This also means they are available for law enforcement and any other party with interest to gather that data, now and in the future.

    It's already starting to bother me. I'm seeing these advertisements here on Slashdot too. After I've searched for something on Google, the related advertisements start to come up EVERYWHERE on the internet. Seriously, they come after you. If you search for specific flights you start to see ads for that everyone. It'll haunt you and there's nothing you can do.

    Google already got into trouble over Safari privacy violations. Did you know that Safari is currently the only browser that blocks third party blocking cookies like those used by advertising networks (Google)? All the other browsers than Safari and IE are in bed with advertisers because both Firefox and Opera get revenue directly from Google. Chrome of course is the worst because it's designed by the advertising network itself.

    You know what's the worst thing? I have a developing case of paranoid schizophrenia. The behavioral advertisements are driving me nuts! It's pure hell when you have such case. I have tried to ease me by blocking such things but still Google gets thru something. They literally follow my every step everywhere. Imagine how paranoid you feel when you're already sick. What am I going to do, stop using the internet? That's really nice.

    So for the love of god Apache Project, stop taking bribes from Google and doing evil things like this!

    1. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I agree, but they won't change so I use dnsmasq:
      address=/doubleclick.net/192.168.10.1
      address=/google-analytics.com/192.168.10.1

    2. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Stormthirst · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ad-block FTW

    3. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by rotorbudd · · Score: 3, Funny

      Just wait till they start hiding under your bed with chainsaws.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it, but artillery is addressed to " Whom It May concern"
    4. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Privoxy is more convenient

    5. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by nzac · · Score: 1

      It's in the interest of all its user-base to minimize the number of DNT browsers. Ads fund websites and targeted advertising brings in more revenue for the sites (i would think).

      Choosing to ignore a standard is not what they should be doing either.

    6. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's a standard for what exactly? If it's not about communicating user tracking preferences it serves no more function than COPPA age checks.

    7. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by heypete · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's already starting to bother me. I'm seeing these advertisements here on Slashdot too. After I've searched for something on Google, the related advertisements start to come up EVERYWHERE on the internet. Seriously, they come after you. If you search for specific flights you start to see ads for that everyone. It'll haunt you and there's nothing you can do.

      Not true: you can change your Google Ad Preferences or opt-out.

      Similarly, you can use the NAI's opt-out page to opt-out of Google and other ad network tracking.

      There's plenty of browser plugins that work to block ads entirely (such as AdBlock) and ones that ensure that the "opt-out" cookies stay in existence even if you clear your other cookies.

      All the other browsers than Safari and IE are in bed with advertisers because both Firefox and Opera get revenue directly from Google.

      The default search box in those browsers comes configured to use Google, yes. They do get income from ad revenue stemming from searches from the box. You're not forced to use that search box, nor are you forced to use the default settings -- you can add other search providers (like DuckDuckGo, ixquick, etc.) -- Firefox, for one, doesn't have ad agreements with anyone other than Google.

      So for the love of god Apache Project, stop taking bribes from Google and doing evil things like this!

      Is there evidence that the Apache project is "taking bribes from Google"?

      My understanding from the article is that an individual contributed a patch to the the Apache httpd.conf source code and does not reflect the official viewpoint of the Apache Foundation, nor that the patch has been approved for inclusion. Naturally, I welcome any corrections.

    8. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ad-Block doesn't really help as much as you think. It's blocking ads and cookies, not tracking. Companies have had a long time to learn ways to gather data despite adblock. Install DNT Plus alongside it.

      http://www.abine.com/dntdetail.php

      My solution is a little extreme, but I have DNScrypt, DNT Plus, Ad-Block, Flash-Block and BetterPrivacy. I also have Collusion just to watch what data I am sharing and with who.

    9. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by bmo · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just a FYI.

      I went to NAI's opt out page and tried it. I have Adblock-plus. To get all of them, you have to turn off Adblock-Plus, hit the "all of them" button, and then re-enable. Otherwise, you only get 50-some-odd out of 95.

      --
      BMO

    10. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by TrueSatan · · Score: 3, Informative

      You don't mention this but DNS Crypt is only, officially, supported on Windows and Mac but it can be made to work on GNU/Linux and BSD with a little work. The following site gives the details you would need to do this https://johnfail.wordpress.com/2012/07/24/dnscrypt-for-linux/

    11. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by heypete · · Score: 2

      Also FYI, I typoed the URL for Google's ad preferences. Here is the correct URL: http://www.google.com/ads/preferences/ -- I left off the "s" at the end of "preferences". Mea culpa.

    12. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Karzz1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Choosing to ignore a standard is not what they should be doing either.

      To be honest this is kind of a ridiculous standard anyway. The way I read it, it seems to me the sites I would least want to track me are the exact sites that are most likely to ignore DNT completely. This standard reminds me of the Evil Bit RFC.

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
    13. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Karzz1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      While I agree with your sentiment I have seen where this patch is referred to as a patch against "source code";in your post and even (from the article page comments) "core source code" and I disagree with that. This is a *configuration file* patch. I don't know of anyone other than a home user trying Apache for the first time who uses the default configuration file; not to mention this patch is not even approved by or included with Apache (yet).

      This may be an argument in semantics but it seems to me a true source code patch (ie. one in which once the server is compiled no configuration option will allow a setting one way or the other) is much more worrisome than a simple configuration change.

      From what I am reading, unless/until this patch is included with Apache by default, this is really a non-issue. Someone who wants to ignore DNT can do it. Someone who wants to honor it can do so as well. This choice is left up to the company that is using the software (and believe me, even if DNT was hard-coded into the source code, sites that don't want to honor it would simply patch Apache internally). As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, DNT reminds me of the "Evil Bit" RFC.

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
    14. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never thought to do it for my linux box. Thanks.

    15. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by kontio · · Score: 1

      You're not forced to use the search box or the default settings, but I recently found an annoying feature in Opera. When I start typing something in the address field Opera would automatically offer me search suggestions from Google. I'm not sure I'd like this feature be on by default, but I didn't even find a setting for turning it off. Editing Opera's search.ini manually solved the issue for me, although I'm not sure if you can achieve the same thing by deleting Google from your list of search engines and re-adding it (if you want).

    16. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Bengie · · Score: 2

      The DAA is MUCH larger than just Google. http://www.aboutads.info/participating

      Including:
      Better Business Bureau
      Association of the United States Army
      AllState Insurance
      Forbes
      Microsoft (ironic)

    17. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by guttentag · · Score: 2

      Just wait till they start hiding under your bed with chainsaws.

      Nah, they come in through the skylight or on stage at Yale. It's common knowledge that under the bed is where Stallman keeps his katana and Linus keeps his nunchucks. Rumor has it RMS also hid a special macro in Emacs which turns your pinky finger into a deadly weapon.

    18. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as AC due to modding. but why are we positively modding an obvious shill?

    19. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Google and every other advertiser know that, when given the choice to opt in on something, you likely won't. I could type a wall of text, but if you have a few minutes you could watch this TED talk about opt-in vs opt-out.

      To sum up: you are not really in control of your decisions

      http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html

    20. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by cpu6502 · · Score: 0

      Well the "do not track" really shouldn't be enbled by default, anymore than a DVR should skip over TV ads by default. The courts have already ruled DVR makers may not do auto-ad-skip, because it's the same as stealing copyrighted TV broadcast. Ads can still be skipped but only if initiated by the customer.

      Personally I like the ads. They give me free TV, free radio, and free internet. Plus they are easy-to-ignore; most of the time I don't even see them.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    21. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Culture20 · · Score: 2

      It's common knowledge that under the bed is where Stallman keeps his katana and Linus keeps his nunchucks.

      The same bed? :O

    22. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Forty+Two+Tenfold · · Score: 0, Troll

      with who.

      It's "whom." Go back to school.

      --
      Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
    23. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by MrHanky · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Wow, +5 for a shill account with one paranoid delusional comment.

      1) It's not obvious that Google is behind this. Roy Fielding, the man responsible for it, works for Adobe.

      2) If Roy Fielding were a sock puppet for Google, and Google would prefer DNT not to exist at all, then he probably wouldn't have made DNT in the first place.

    24. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by dmesg0 · · Score: 0, Troll

      How did a post from an obvious Microsoft shill received +5 Interesting moderation?

      Signs for a Microsoft shill:
      - Very long first post
      - The only post by the user ever (rarely followed by one-two additional responses)
      - Very clear and strong anti-Google or pro-Microsoft message

      We really want the shill to get away from Slashdot (maybe the company management doesn't, but the users do).
      Moderators, please always recognize the shills before modding up, and mod them down into oblivion.
      We also need a new moderation: -1 Astroturfing.

      Please do something about it, it really hurts to see this site destroyed by paid mercenaries.

    25. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Preferences -> Search -> "Use suggestions..." checkbox under the list. AFAICT from my install, it still allows for search suggestions when you use keyword, i.e. when you start typing "g keyword" it gives you googles' suggestions and when you type "w keyword" it gives you wikipedia's suggestions.

    26. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ad-block FTW

      Pretty much, along with cookie blockers. Anyone who doesn't use one on the internet these days is either mad or insane. Perhaps both. I don't care that site users are whining and crying that they're losing revenue, it's stuff like what was mentioned in the article itself(too long to repeat) that ensure that I'm going to keep using them. Plus the long list of abusive ads themselves that like to run with their volume at 11, or inject malware.

      I'd be happy with ads, no really. If companies weren't being so stinking abusive over it. I'd call the entire thing an abusive relationship, you even get companies promising "we don't do this, don't worry we've changed." And next time, they're right back to doing it. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    27. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't allow newly created user accounts to be modded higher than +2 for the first 7 days or say after 20 posts. Maybe put a reminder next to the username that the user is a new user so others will know in casual browsing. There are some downsides to these concepts but it would weed out a lot of deception and shilling as well and people constantly creating new accounts to hide an agenda.

    28. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have a look at NoScript. You're gonna love it.

    29. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You know what's the worst thing? I have a developing case of paranoid schizophrenia.

      The good news is your slashdot karma will improve dramatically.

    30. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by KiloByte · · Score: 2

      DVR makers may not do auto-ad-skip, because it's the same as stealing copyrighted TV broadcast

      Er, what? The broadcast is available to everyone, no matter if you asked for it or not.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    31. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I realized that after I hit post. Thanks anyway, Comrade!

    32. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Similarly, you can use the NAI's opt-out page to opt-out of Google and other ad network tracking.

      I went to that page - it told me I had to turn on third-party cookies to use its functionality. Nice try!

      I'm pretty sure not allowing third-party cookies largely solves the problem already. I've also got Firefox set to "ask me every time" whenever someone wants to set a cookie - yeah, it was a pain for the first few weeks, but I think it's worth it.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    33. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by kermidge · · Score: 1

      Which is why I use ghostery. As far as I can figure out it blocks a crapload of tracking stuff. Drawback is most initial images to Wired articles don't show up, for example.

    34. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by tehlinux · · Score: 0

      Go back to school.

      Yes, the world needs more english majors.

      --
      Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
    35. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 1

      And it's back to -1 because Google has enough resources to game Slashdot's moderation system.

    36. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      Well, they certainly had resources enough to game me.

    37. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by supersloshy · · Score: 2

      Not just that. Many people don't know that you can get easily infected by a rogue advertisement even being displayed. That alone keeps me using Adblock, even if all of the other factors people name didn't exist.

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    38. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

      Google and every other advertiser know that, when given the choice to opt in on something, you likely won't. I could type a wall of text, but if you have a few minutes you could watch this TED talk about opt-in vs opt-out.

      To sum up: you are not really in control of your decisions

      http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html

      The talk albeit interesting in actually irrelevant to this discussion. opt-in and opt-out are discussed, but only in the instance where complex decisions have to be made [organ transplants after death], and spoiler! they go with the option of least resistance. Which is vastly different for a trial choice everyone would make [if they knew was there; knew how to change it; had the confidence to change it], because nobody likes advertisement.

    39. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not RequestPolicy? Or are you implementing those features in your firewall(s)?

    40. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      The courts have already ruled DVR makers may not do auto-ad-skip, because it's the same as stealing copyrighted TV broadcast.

      Citation Needed

    41. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      You don't have RequestPolicy? Because I'd say the best protection for your privacy is if the corresponding server is not even contacted. All other measures are only bandaids for the case where you cannot avoid contacting the server.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    42. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by TCM · · Score: 1

      Not true: you can change your Google Ad Preferences [google.com] or opt-out.

      Similarly, you can use the NAI's opt-out page [networkadvertising.org] to opt-out of Google and other ad network tracking.

      The funny thing about opt-out is that you have to give them information in the form of a cookie, i.e. the exact opposite of what you normally want.

      Only blocking is responsible self-defense. Communicating with trackers is stupid.

      --
      Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
    43. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by TCM · · Score: 1

      I've also got Firefox set to "ask me every time" whenever someone wants to set a cookie - yeah, it was a pain for the first few weeks, but I think it's worth it.

      https://addons.mozilla.org/en/firefox/addon/cookie-monster/

      Love it.

      --
      Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
    44. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Ad-block FTW

      Pretty much, along with cookie blockers. Anyone who doesn't use one on the internet these days is either mad or insane. Perhaps both. I don't care that site users are whining and crying that they're losing revenue, it's stuff like what was mentioned in the article itself(too long to repeat) that ensure that I'm going to keep using them. Plus the long list of abusive ads themselves that like to run with their volume at 11, or inject malware.

      I'd be happy with ads, no really. If companies weren't being so stinking abusive over it. I'd call the entire thing an abusive relationship, you even get companies promising "we don't do this, don't worry we've changed." And next time, they're right back to doing it. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

      I don't mind ads if they are in the margins. What I HATE are popups that show up when you slide the mouse across a keyword in a blog or article. These popups are ads that I write off as my subconscious telling me to avoid purchasing that product because a hard sell means an inferior product.
      The worst are girlie ads that popup while I am reading a technical article or even while reading stuff rom Slashdot.org, The ISP or whoever, creates browser triggers for keywords. I frequently dump cache, cookies, etc. but sometimes these guys are not using a cookie that is in the standard location.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    45. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by TemporalBeing · · Score: 2

      Similarly, you can use the NAI's opt-out page to opt-out of Google and other ad network tracking.

      I went to that page - it told me I had to turn on third-party cookies to use its functionality. Nice try!

      I'm pretty sure not allowing third-party cookies largely solves the problem already. I've also got Firefox set to "ask me every time" whenever someone wants to set a cookie - yeah, it was a pain for the first few weeks, but I think it's worth it.

      So what happens if a company proxies the third-party cookies through their own site and turns them into first-party cookies?

      Advertisers can develop just as many hacks to deliver as as people can create hacks to stop advertisers.

      What, you thought HTML5 was just for kicks?

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    46. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by mysidia · · Score: 1

      To be honest this is kind of a ridiculous standard anyway. The way I read it, it seems to me the sites I would least want to track me are the exact sites that are most likely to ignore DNT completely

      The problem is DNT has no teeth. There should be some mode of identification and publication of sites that ignore DNT in a blacklist.

      And when browsers encounter a site known to ignore DNT, they should refuse to allow redirecting to it, or sourcing content remotely from the site via remote script frames or images tags.

      And the ability to set and store cookies readable by a blacklisted site should be blocked.

      If ignoring DNT had more tangible negative repurcussions for the site operator, they would be less likely to do it

    47. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Meski · · Score: 1

      It's optimistic of me, but did you read the original? DNT is an opt-in, and if companies like Microsoft set it to be an opt-out, then the likelihood is advertisers will ignore it. IMO a lot will, anyway, but this doesn't help.

    48. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This data makes it more convenient for the consumer (us) to get what we want. I have no problem with it because how would they use this against me anyway. It's not an annoyance to me and it has more chance of helping me, rather than doing harm so go Google.

    49. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true: you can change your Google Ad Preferences or opt-out.

      Ummm... Link broken: "404. That’s an error. The requested URL /ads/preference was not found on this server. That’s all we know."

      Some of Google's ad people must subscribe to /. :)

    50. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oops... Missed this post. Apologies!

    51. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by icebraining · · Score: 1

      The most important sign: huge message posted at the exact same minute as the story.

      Seriously people, are you blind?

    52. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by icebraining · · Score: 1

      What does HTML5 have to do with this?

    53. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      What does HTML5 have to do with this?

      HTML5 includes a scripting functionality, based on JavaScript IIRCC.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    54. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by dmesg0 · · Score: 1

      Something fishy is going on, the obvious shill is modded up, while any attempt to object is immediately labelled as trolling.
      I guess it's time to move on from shillsdot.org to some other place.

    55. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by icebraining · · Score: 1

      The only scripting functionality in HTML5 is the same as HTML has had since Netscape introduced JavaScript in '95. There's nothing new there. You can see for yourself: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/scripting-1.html

      It's true that HTML5 includes a scripting functionality, but it's like saying that the new Volvo has a steering wheel.

    56. Re:Gee, How Much Google Paid For This by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      The Google one is a 404, the second requires me to enable third party cookies. No thanks.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  2. We care about ad networks? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 5, Funny

    This hasn't gone down well with ad networks

    To quote Firefly: "Do we care? Is this something we are caring about?"

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yes, they fund most of the content on the internet, dipshit.

    2. Re:We care about ad networks? by mister_playboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There was content on the web before there were ads, dipshit.

      Anyone who thinks we can't have one without the other is wrong, because that state has already happened.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    3. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you even remember the WWW of the 90s? I mean sure, there were content, but my god...

    4. Re:We care about ad networks? by JustOK · · Score: 3, Funny

      oh, yes. And what a wonderful web it was.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    5. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, they fund most of the content on the internet, dipshit.

      This is a strawman. You can have ads and ad revenue without excessive user tracking.

    6. Re:We care about ad networks? by BorgDrone · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, all improvements to the web are thanks to the ad companies, it has nothing to do with technological progress.

    7. Re:We care about ad networks? by Kidbro · · Score: 2

      We care that they care. If they choose to ignore DNT due to Microsoft's actions (or rather, probably deliberate attempt to make the feature ignored) we do care. We prefer that the ad networks honor DNT, and they might, if it's not turned on by default.
      It's that simple.

    8. Re:We care about ad networks? by Celarent+Darii · · Score: 0

      I hope you simply forgot the /sarcasm tag.

    9. Re:We care about ad networks? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why yes it was there was content, not people telling each other what they had for dinner and when they had a BM. When you searched for information about a piece of hardware you got the manual and other useful information not the marking drivel. The noise ratio of the internet has gone up dramatically as it's become more and more commercial.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    10. Re:We care about ad networks? by Celarent+Darii · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You think ad networks will be the one who honor DNT? The very same people who profit by tracking?

      Frankly I think the whole thing would be better if adblock was just installed by default in every browser.

      Ads are nothing less than visual pollution. Tracking is also one of the reasons that we have cookies and all the other security problems with the web. HTTP was meant to be a stateless protocol and should remain so.

    11. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, because the internet would be totally awesome without search engines. Of course you should have the option to turn on DNT, but setting it by default actually allows advertisers to ignore it under the current policies. It's purely a PR move by Microsoft because the end result is that you lose choice since there is no way to know if you "opted-in" to DNT or not on IE 10.

    12. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We prefer that the ad networks honor DNT, and they might, if it's not turned on by default.

      Why do you think Microsoft's turning it on by default?

    13. Re:We care about ad networks? by dissy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If the site is so concerned about money and income, why don't they just use regular ads instead of tracking ads then?

      They can choose. Use tracking ads, have them blocked, and get nothing. Or use regular ads, and get something.

      It's hardly our fault that they choose to abuse their customers and then bitch about getting no money because of it.

    14. Re:We care about ad networks? by Splab · · Score: 1

      If it's something you opt into, then yes. It would be in their interest to avoid harsher requirements from governments, when questioned they would be able to just point at the optional flag and say there's no need for legislation. However when it's on by default it will hurt too much ...

    15. Re:We care about ad networks? by oldlurker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We care that they care. If they choose to ignore DNT due to Microsoft's actions (or rather, probably deliberate attempt to make the feature ignored) we do care. We prefer that the ad networks honor DNT, and they might, if it's not turned on by default. It's that simple.

      The moment a number of users started to turn on DNT ad networks would find a reason to not honor it anyway. It seems DNT was a privacy standard built on the peculiar premise that it only works as long as it stays unknown to most users ('if few enough know about enabling DNT then maybe the ad networks will leave us that do alone').

    16. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what.. They can be less offensive or GTFO.. I say block them any way you can until they learn how to behave. Every computer should come with a properly filled hosts file, and go from there.. Fuck the advertisers and their agents.

    17. Re:We care about ad networks? by Seumas · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The best content on the internet is produced out of a passion for creating the content, rather than a desire to make a buck. The commoditization of the internet will ruin it, yet. We can't even escape marketing and obnoxious advertising *here*. The majority of people just want to make a buck, right down to the last mommy-blogger that plasters her five-views-a-month blogger page with adsense just so she can eek a nickel out of every last word.

      Remember when people did shit because they cared? They didn't have to monetize every square inch of every page of their website? The created services and content because they loved doing it or cared about the community they were doing it for? Remember when sysops built communities for free? They bought the hardware, they maintained everything, they paid for the phone lines, they spent hundreds of hours adding content, connecting their services to multi-node door games, setting up FIDOnet, accounting, etc. And they did it because they enjoyed it. And if people appreciated it enough, they chipped in some cash. Not because they were asked to, but because they wanted to. And you didn't have to be confronted with ads.

      I'm not saying the whole internet has to be like that, but does *EVERYONE* have to eek a penny out of every last spot they can? Not just big websites with huge advertising contracts, but right down to every jackhole with a dinky little website or blog?

      When I started my site in 1997, I did it with the specific intention of never monetizing it. I didn't charge money. I didn't charge fees. I didn't sell ads. Nothing. I did it because it was enjoyable and it served a purpose for people that they found valuable. I'm sure they'd have paid if I asked, but I didn't. It felt dirty. It felt unnecessary. I thought it was a righteous and reasonable thing to do.

      Almost a decade later, I met someone in a bar and it turned out she was a long-time member of my site. We got to talking about it for awhile and when I brought up advertising, she paused and said that she actually had never even noticed that there was no advertising on the site. I couldn't believe it. I feel so accosted by advertising every fucking where I turn that I sure as hell notice it on sites and appreciate the lack of it on others. And here, I discovered that regular people neither give a shit nor even notice whether there are or aren't any ads.

    18. Re:We care about ad networks? by Seumas · · Score: 1

      I will honor not breaking into your house, but only if you leave your house unlocked by default.

      Frankly, they can do whatever the fuck they want. I've been blocking ads since the last century and this bullshit won't change anything.

    19. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      technically, there must be something else to call something "ratio": you can't say noise ratio of internet.
      I think you wanted to refer signal-to-noise ratio which in this case, it does down instead of going up with the junk on the internet

    20. Re:We care about ad networks? by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

      This is just fucked up. It should always be assumed someone wants privacy unless explicitly stated. If ad networks believe otherwise then it is time for government to step in with laws that require them to respect a users privacy by default.

    21. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well put. Mr. Fielding really screwed this one up. Just exactly decided that the default behavior on the web should be privacy invasion (sorry, obviously I meant to say "personalization")?

      If Apache truly does not tolerate abuse of standards, how about not tolerating the ORIGINAL abuse of standards--the use of cookies and other state maintaining mechanisms to serve targeted third party ads in the first place. Those standards were never meant for that purpose. They were abused by slimy ad agencies, but nobody went after them and now look at the sorry state of the web.

        Ironic that Microsoft ends up coming down on the side of real people, doubtless for their own reasons of course, but notable since it so rarely happens with them.

      Next of course comes the popularization for non-geeks of the various "patches" for IE that will change the user agent string to appear to be something else, followed closely by a patch to Apache to see through that, etc. If you think about it, anybody who would change their browser like that is in fact expressing a preference...

      But, if advertisers and their cheerleaders want a war, fine. I don't block ads much because like a lot of people I learn to ignore them, or to go somewhere else if that is annoying to do. Time to change that, and for us all to show our non geek friends how also. If ad supported "content" vanishes, we'll all be better off anyway.

    22. Re:We care about ad networks? by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      I don't quite know if we care about them, but just speaking about customized ads: I've been finding them quite useful of late.

      For a long time I was using a dual Chromium/Chrome setup: No Javascript in the former and the majority of browsing in that, and only using Javascript on the latter when necessary for a specific site.

      I got a new, faster computer and installed Ubuntu anew on it using Chromium with Javascript on. So I got to experience the web with custom ads.

      I find it somewhat useful. For example I see a lot of ads for iWeb, Softlayer, and other hosting providers. I'm in the market for that, and so I don't think that's really bad, either.

      What would be the point of showing rec vehicle ads to me?

      Anyway, clear out your cookies on a regular basis, and you should be fine.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    23. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He didn't forget, he thought we were smart enough to get it without it, asshole.

    24. Re:We care about ad networks? by johanw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What makes you think they don't ignore it anyway? That is why I don't care that much about DNT and use AdBlock Plus and Ghostery. The later also blocking those ugly Javascripts.

    25. Re:We care about ad networks? by Goaway · · Score: 1

      You think ad networks will be the one who honor DNT?

      Uh, yes, that is the entire point of DNT. It has no other use than as a flag for ad network to honor.

    26. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Almost a decade later, I met someone in a bar and it turned out she was a long-time member of my site. We got to talking about it for awhile and when I brought up advertising, she paused and said that she actually had never even noticed that there was no advertising on the site. I couldn't believe it. I feel so accosted by advertising every fucking where I turn that I sure as hell notice it on sites and appreciate the lack of it on others. And here, I discovered that regular people neither give a shit nor even notice whether there are or aren't any ads.

      When she doesn't notice whether there are ads it is another example that ads are useless anyway.

    27. Re:We care about ad networks? by moronoxyd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Tracking should be something users should have to opt in to, not out of.

    28. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't opt into tracking. It is a big data privacy invasion and should be opt-in instead of opt-out. And you can't expect users to manually surf to the opt-out pages of all the tracker networks (Ghostery currently lists 495 advertisers and 234 trackers).

    29. Re:We care about ad networks? by Mabhatter · · Score: 2

      I think that Microsoft has turned that around. By setting the flag to not track, they then bully the OTHER ad agencies.

      Remember, Microsoft is ALSO an ad agency. They get to embed Bing right ino the browser as the default. It doesn't matter if they follow DNT flag or not, they have a huge captured market just from people that don't do anything. Just like Apple, they are working to build ads into the "metro" platform as well... That's all "outside" the Do Not Track debate because the DNT flag only effects "browsers".

    30. Re:We care about ad networks? by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Interesting

      We had worthless crap spewed by some amateur individuals instead of worthless crap being spewed by some professional agencies.

      I fail to see the big improvement.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    31. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I work on the opposite principal of Deny All by default and use a whitelist of sites allowed to set cookies, use jscript, flash or anything else. In other words, I'm definately an Opt-In Kind of person instead of one of the masses that prefers to Opt-Out after the fact.

    32. Re:We care about ad networks? by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed it was. I searched for information and I got information. Today it's more of a hassle to get information than it was in the 90s.

      Let's say you're looking for some kind of code. You want to know how to do something elegantly, sensibly, or just at all. In the 90s, this meant typing in your search string and unless you were looking for something completely outlandish, altavista usually offered you some university page where that problem was discussed by some students.

      Today, you type your search string and then the game starts. First, you scroll down the "sponsored links" that usually have little to do with your problem. Then you weed out the pages that want you to cough up some dough to actually show you the solution. The advanced searcher already has a "default" search template consisting of a lot of "-$page -$page -$page..." entries to tack onto the search string so those pages don't show up in the result. Usually that template takes up way more room in your search than what you're looking for.

      Then you eventually find a page that looks like it might solve your problem. You click it, endure a lengthy flash ad you cannot skip, only to find out you fell for yet another page that either wants your money or doesn't offer any solution but just lures you to generate clicks, and you have another entry for your default search string.

      Rinse, repeat until you eventually find a university board where your problem is being discussed...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    33. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and when they had a BM.

      At first I wasn't sure if you meant Big Mac or Bowel Movement. Then I realized I was repeating myself. :P

    34. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will honor not breaking into your house, but only if you leave your house unlocked by default.

      Worse: I will honor not breaking into your house, but only if the house builder didn't fit locks to it and you chose to have locks installed.

    35. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck does technological progress have to do with it?

        It's all about the money. Content is paid for by some means out of which ads is a fairly big percent.

    36. Re:We care about ad networks? by Kaz+Kylheku · · Score: 1

      If do-not-track is just a factory default, and not a user choice, then the ad networks have no reason to honor it.

      If it hasn't gone down well with ad networks, it means they are being earnest about implementing this: those are the "okay" networks. They want not to track users who explicitly express "do not track", (but would like to track other users, the don't-cares). Microsoft is screwing that up by making the don't-care users look like don't-track-me users.

      "Bad" ad networks don't care about this issue, since they will track regardless.

      Of course, the truly "saintly" ad networks would only want to track those users who explicitly said yes to wanting to be tracked, and so they would not mind that the don't-care ignorant users look like don't-track-me users.

      The "okay" ad networks don't want to be "saintly". Certainly, not at Microsoft's bidding, which hardly has a track record of being saintly! (The hypocrisy there is so thick it can be cut with a knife, like SPAM.)

    37. Re:We care about ad networks? by Celarent+Darii · · Score: 5, Insightful

      An optional flag that has no enforcement mechanism is just asking for government intervention. In any case I don't think DNT will survive, and something else will come in to make ad companies rethink their strategy.

      Do you remember the debate about blocking pop-up windows? Very similar complaints from advertisers who said they were 'financing the development of the web' (what a bunch of bullshit, they are just profiting from it). Yet every browser blocks them by default now. I await the day when (tracking) ads will be blocked by default by most major browsers. It's time to take the web back. HTTP is meant to be a stateless protocol.

    38. Re:We care about ad networks? by Kidbro · · Score: 1

      You think ad networks will be the one who honor DNT? The very same people who profit by tracking?

      If few enough use it, I think the "serious" ad networks will honor it. Google might, for example.

      Frankly I think the whole thing would be better if adblock was just installed by default in every browser.

      So do I. That's not really what the discussion is about, though. DNT is a compromise between users and advertisers that may work for both. This is the industry's attempt at self regulation, before they get laws shoved in their face.

      Ads are nothing less than visual pollution. Tracking is also one of the reasons that we have cookies and all the other security problems with the web. HTTP was meant to be a stateless protocol and should remain so.

      Ironically, you are logged in - using a cookie - while posting that ;-) Truth to tell, I agree with you, but that train is long gone. HTML/HTTP is a weak basis for application building (this I say as a programmer who has written both desktop- and web applications), but there you go - every application that's written these days is written for the browser. Would I have preferred it differently? Yes. Is it a reality we have to live with? Yes.

    39. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow there... you're suggesting regulation or something...?

    40. Re:We care about ad networks? by mounthood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The moment a number of users started to turn on DNT ad networks would find a reason to not honor it anyway. It seems DNT was a privacy standard built on the peculiar premise that it only works as long as it stays unknown to most users ('if few enough know about enabling DNT then maybe the ad networks will leave us that do alone').

      Yes, and we saw the same reaction with the AdBlock Plus detection/counter-measures hoopla. Advertisers can tolerate a small percentage of blocking, but it can't become to popular.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adblock_Plus#Advert_filtering_controversy_and_.22acceptable.22_ads

      DNT is just an Evil-Bit with better marketing, so I'm not sure what concessions the advertisers can make to continue the pretense that DNT is an effective option.

      --
      tomorrow who's gonna fuss
    41. Re:We care about ad networks? by 1u3hr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You want to know how to do something elegantly, sensibly, or just at all. In the 90s, this meant typing in your search string and unless you were looking for something completely outlandish, altavista usually offered you some university page where that problem was discussed by some students.

      Or you used Dejavu usenet search and found the technical group that either already had the answer, or was the right place to ask it.

      Then Google bought Dejavu, and mixed its own "Googlegroups" forums in with it inextricably, and allowed any Google user to send unlimited amounts of spam to usenet. So every single fucking newsgroup was full of ads for knockoff Chinese sports shoes, Rolex, pyramid scams, porn, etc, etc. The signal to noise ratio became so bad that almost everyone abandoned usenet. Seemed to be Google's idea, after all they can very effectively filter spam from GMail, but did absolutely nothing to prevent spam -- mostly from their own users -- going into usenet. A wonderful resource was destroyed so Google could try to promote their own forums, which never took off, so we don't even have that as a alternative. Now you have to search and find the right web forum. And when that forum goes offline, all its accumulated knowledge just disappears.

    42. Re:We care about ad networks? by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I guess hell is freezing over now because I am forced to side with Microsoft on this one. I can't think of anyone who actually wants to be tracked like a bear with a radio collar. The express install has DNT as a default setting because most people really don't want to be tracked. For the few that do, they can choose custom settings and not choose DNT.

      I will be ripping that patch OUT of any Apache I install. If it were a physical thing, I would then piss on it and burn it. It is deeply disrespectful to the end user. All it does is lend credence to the idea that the whole DNT thing was a big fat LIE by the ad networks (liars for hire).

    43. Re:We care about ad networks? by sjames · · Score: 2

      This doesn't get rid of ads, it just asks nicely that the user not be tranq darted, tagged, and cataloged like an animal. The patch gives those nicely asking users the finger.

      I have adblock installed, but decided I would only block ad servers that serve up malware, scams, and/or annoying singing, dancing, and jumping around ads.

    44. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wtf definitely not the early Internet I remember. There were less ads but outside compuserve/aol/etc content was either academic or some stupid self advertisement like BMW.com. There wasn't even porn, it was just freaking empty and it took a long while in Internet years until that changed significantly. Not saying the web won't work without ads but it surely wasn't better in the old days, whatever youre dreaming up. And st least we got rid off the ugly animated gif shit everyone and their grandmas were doing in the 90s

    45. Re:We care about ad networks? by Rayonic · · Score: 2

      > The best content on the internet is produced out of a passion for creating the content, It's best when those people can devote 100% of their time to their passion. Advertising enables that. Otherwise they have to get "a real job" and only spend their spare time (if any) being creative.

    46. Re:We care about ad networks? by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      The pre-ad web I remember was pre-1995, and there was little actual content. No wikipedia; no youtube. Mostly just fansites listing Star Trek or seaQuest episode titles, which were of little actual use. I typically spent less than an hour online per day, because there was little worth seeing.

      The advent of ads has allowed websites to gather money & use that money to develop content I want to see. Like free online magazines to read, or audiobooks to listen to, or TV shows/movies. None of that existed in the pre-ad internet (pre-1995).

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    47. Re:We care about ad networks? by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      I remember altavista, I'm even old enough to have a kid who ran a BBS in the late 80's. I also remember that google had a superior search engine with superior results. Searching for code and tutorials is a snap compared to when I did my CS degree, just about every developer I know uses the net on a daily basis to answer obscure questions. In my long,long, experience I get two types of result list, the type of list you complain about is indicative of a question where nobody knows the answer (or a malware infection). The more common result list is a treasure trove of useful information. If you do this often enough you can become pretty adept at picking which results are useful (like a seagull learns to pick out edible bits at the tip).

      I suspect what you are experiencing is nostalgia for the feeling of discovery that comes with youth. Doesn't have to be that way, my dad is an 80yo retired engineer and recently "discovered" python, it's kept him entertained for the last six months.

      Tip: You can restrict domains in google with "site:", say if your interested in zombies and wanted to restrict results to Australian universities; zoblies site:.edu.au, ...well...you'll probably be bitterly disappointed at the paucity of Aussie research into zombies, but you get the idea.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    48. Re:We care about ad networks? by paimin · · Score: 1

      That works both ways.

      --
      Facebook is the new AOL
    49. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As I remember, UseNet spam was a huge problem before Google Groups came along. UseNet had a way to delete spam from the entire network, but they had a rule against using content-based filters to decide which messages were spam.

    50. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, why shouldn't content owners make money from there websites, fe alternative to ads is paying for each website which I think would be even less popular.

    51. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not completely true. I've set people up with firefox and ad-block lite or configured it through their router for them, after first showing them an annoying blinky ad on the sidebar. They just kind of say "oh, cool! thanks" after it's installed and it is gone.

      They do notice, but their brains have been trained to filter it out. Like when you started driving a car, you probably noticed everything and promptly freaked out, but after some time you learned to block out everything out and concentrate on your task. Same thing with using a computer for most people. They have no idea how it works, the just get from point A to point B and filter everything out that doesn't get in the way. That's why pop-ups died but annoying blinky ads remain.

      Those same people I "fixed" never mentioned it again. They have never used another computer and felt annoyed when the ads were there. You just aren't going to convert people because they operate differently.

    52. Re:We care about ad networks? by drooling-dog · · Score: 1

      The early Web wasn't primarily an entertainment medium then, as it is today. In fact, it was pretty hard to get a domain name if you weren't associated with an educational institution or involved in research. There was plenty of high-quality content, but not of the sort that most users today would have been attracted to.

    53. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When you searched for information about a piece of hardware you got the manual and other useful information not the marking drivel.

      Your memory's failing, old man. It was nearly impossible to search for anything ... until Google figured how to monatize search with ads.

    54. Re:We care about ad networks? by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      Frankly, they can do whatever the fuck they want. I've been blocking ads since the last century and this bullshit won't change anything.

      There are ads on the Internet?
      -User of adblockplus since 2006

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    55. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And there's the key word: Fail.

    56. Re:We care about ad networks? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Are you sure there was actual content on the web back in the 1990s? I just remember a bunch of link farms, all pointing to each other...

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    57. Re:We care about ad networks? by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      Turn off cookies then. Seems like an easy fix for you.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    58. Re:We care about ad networks? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      What the fuck does technological progress have to do with it?

      Ever since he saw Terminator, he's been convinced the web is self-aware.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    59. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thankfully, we have slashdot where worthless crap is still being spewed by some amateur individuals.

    60. Re:We care about ad networks? by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      The web was only a few years old in 1995. There were the seeds of youtube I remember watching the video of a DOT blowing up a dead whale and sending rotten whale meat over something like a quarter mile (I was working on putting all the DOT's public information to be available online at the time). Anyway there was very little infotainment but a lot of content at the time was still primarily accessible via gopher etc and you needed to understand how to do research to find it as search was very primitive.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    61. Re:We care about ad networks? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      It was nearly impossible to search for anything ... until Google figured how to monatize search with ads.

      Yeah, because there were no search engines before Google. And the more Google has 'monatized' (sic) its searches, the worse they've become.

    62. Re:We care about ad networks? by westlake · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, all improvements to the web are thanks to the ad companies, it has nothing to do with technological progress.

      Technological progress costs money.

      You have to give people a reason to buy the hardware and services it requires.

      Broadcast radio began as little more than a high tech hobby. With programming like Amos and Andy and The Grand Old Opry, broadcast radio became a national obsession.

    63. Re:We care about ad networks? by excelsior_gr · · Score: 1

      I discovered that regular people neither give a shit nor even notice whether there are or aren't any ads.

      That is because people have learned how to filter content and separate the interesting stuff from all the crap around it.

    64. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes! Obviously, duh.

    65. Re:We care about ad networks? by 1u3hr · · Score: 4, Interesting
      As I remember, UseNet spam was a huge problem before Google Groups came along. UseNet had a way to delete spam from the entire network, but they had a rule against using content-based filters to decide which messages were spam.

      There was no "rule" at all.

      Almost all ISPs had usenet servers and filtered spam. The ones that didn't were blacklisted by the others. Until Google came along. Then many ISPs stopped providing usenet feeds and told their users to use Google. And Google didn't filter spam. It enabled spammers to use throwaway accounts. Didn't matter that the account was deleted later, they could get a new one immediately and keep going. Some premium hosts blocked Google posts, but that also blocked many legitimate posters who didn't want to pay form a usenet feed.

      Anyway, where before you could filter out all the crap from Russia, China, India, etc, now the biggest usenet host of all in the world was generating the most spam. Those cunts killed usenet. .

    66. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The pre-ad web I remember was pre-1995, and there was little actual content. No wikipedia

      I forgot about all those Wikipedia ads.

    67. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So Lycos, Excite, Altavista, Yahoo, WebCrawler, LookSmart and Ask Jeeves didn't exist and/or have ads until Google came along. Insightful.

    68. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They existed. And they sucked, and nobody in their right mind misses them. Did you have a point?

    69. Re:We care about ad networks? by bruce_the_loon · · Score: 1

      Ah, the memories. The TV station ran the video again as part of their 50 year anniversary. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD5sPgV61bw

      This must have been one of the first truly viral videos

      --
      Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
    70. Re:We care about ad networks? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      The advent of ads has allowed websites to gather money & use that money to develop content I want to see.

      At the cost of turning the Internet into the world's biggest adversarial game, where you need various software filters just to survive.

      free online magazines to read

      Hm...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrack

      I guess that there were free magazines to read online before the adversarial Internet...

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    71. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It needs to honor it period. It's better if it's turned on by default and they get to track nada.

      In fact, there should be a $10,000 USD fine for each byte served, for tracking after the DNT flag is identified - that would cost the advertisers close to a million bucks from one person visiting that they ignore the setting.

      It should be DNT everywhere, unless we specifically decide to opt-in, by certifying and signing something ourselves.

      Going to someone's website doesn't mean they get to stalk us forever after.

      Fuck the advertisers and now by way of this fucked up patch, fuck Apache!

    72. Re:We care about ad networks? by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      They lost their right to be cared about when they started that monkey punching bullshit.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    73. Re:We care about ad networks? by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      "I don't want to pay for heating oil" - "Then move to Nevada!"
      "Gas costs too much!" - "Then walk 15 miles to work every day!"

      I could go on and on with examples as to why that logic is flawed.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    74. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those 'professional agencies' are much worse and know how to sell you down a river than some amateur individuals in their back bedrooms.

    75. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agree. This is also an opportunity to plug other web servers like Hiawatha. While I have a really really hard time imagining a post-LAMP/WAMP world, I'm not liking what the Apache Foundation is doing. LibreOffice and Hiawatha have my support all day long.

    76. Re:We care about ad networks? by oldhack · · Score: 1

      We care that they care. If they choose to ignore DNT due to Microsoft's actions (or rather, probably deliberate attempt to make the feature ignored) we do care. We prefer that the ad networks honor DNT, and they might, if it's not turned on by default. It's that simple.

      Is it that you're a moron? Or that you're a shill? Which is it?

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    77. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it somewhat useful. For example I see a lot of ads for iWeb, Softlayer, and other hosting providers. I'm in the market for that, and so I don't think that's really bad, either.

      The equivalent of a 5 second search on Google. The cost/benefit isn't even remotely there and it is "really bad". If you make purchasing decisions based on unsolicited advertising you are a fool.

    78. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To screw Google, who is the biggest ad service provider today. Either they honor DNT which impacts the efficiency of their ads (less targeted etc). Or, they refuse to honor DNT, opening themselves up to lawsuits over various consumer privacy lawsuits in Europe and elsewhere.

    79. Re:We care about ad networks? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      So far as I can tell, the actual reason for DNT is to serve as an explicit declaration of user intent when it comes to their personal information. Keep in mind that, while US has very lacking consumer privacy laws, many other places have much better ones - most importantly, EU. In some of those places, there are laws on the books that say that, if the user has requested to not be tracked, he shall not be tracked. Not following the policy will get you in serious trouble with customer protection agencies.

      Whether enabling DNT by default invalidates its usefulness for this or not is an interesting question. And I suspect we'll eventually find out when the court rules one way or another.

    80. Re:We care about ad networks? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      But then Google also has Android as a platform for its ad services.

    81. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why use inferior addons? RequestPolicy blocks _ALL_ third-party requests by default, and allows you to enable requests on a subdomain-by-subdomain basis (if you set the granularity to subdomain that is). That covers all malicious scripts, web beacons, "Like"-buttons, and so on.

      I no longer even consider installing AdBlock because it is implemented as a blacklist based on filenames and precise domains. If, for example, a tracking script would move from fbcdn.net to fbcdn.com or even a static IP-address, you would probably have to change your rule set to catch it. It's not sustainable in the long run.

    82. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can print it out. I recommend you burn it first and then piss on it, a wet printout will not burn easily.

    83. Re:We care about ad networks? by firewrought · · Score: 1

      HTTP is meant to be a stateless protocol.

      I still use Emacs, run adblock/noscript, and have no Facebook or Google+ account, but man... even I know that world is long gone. The web used to be a bone-simple platform for hypertext documents, but now it's all grown up into a presentation and delivery layer for distributed apps.

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    84. Re:We care about ad networks? by makomk · · Score: 2

      If the site is so concerned about money and income, why don't they just use regular ads instead of tracking ads then?

      Relevance. Companies aren't interested in paying money to show ads to people who aren't going to buy their product anyway, so if websites use regular ads they're going to make a lot less money.

    85. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This change is just ensuring that you do, by default.

    86. Re:We care about ad networks? by Kidbro · · Score: 1

      Obviously a moron, as I am no shill. Care to elaborate on how we benefit from DNT being ignored from the start? Use small words, so a moron can understand them, please.

      Make no mistake, the only result from this action is that DNT will be ignored. It is thus just garbage data that will be sent along with some HTTP requests, increasing maintenance and network load for everybody.
      For the record, as a user I really don't give a fuck. I'm adblocking everything anyway. As a developer, I'm quite tired of "standards" that I have support (or at least be aware of) but nobody honors. It's funny that when Microsoft finally decides to honor a standard, they do it, seemingly, just in order to kill it.

    87. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Relevance can be determined by the content of the page itself, just like advertising is done on TV. There is no need to track the user to establish relevance.

    88. Re:We care about ad networks? by oldhack · · Score: 1

      Ok, I'll go real slow and beat the horse one more time, the horse that others already had pummeled to death well and good. You paying attention? Ok, here goes.

      Because DNT is a moronic "evil bit". Bothering with it at all is like mice wondering about wearing a "don't eat me" sign so that cats won't eat them. It's a quack "medicine" that promises you bogus immunity.

      The best thing to do, the only thing, is to ignore it.

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    89. Re:We care about ad networks? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Those seem perfectly reasonable to me. Why exactly do you expect people to solve your problems for you?

    90. Re:We care about ad networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is your web site?

  3. It does not protect anyone's privacy... by Neil_Brown · · Score: 4, Informative

    It does not protect anyone's privacy unless the recipients believe it was set by a real human being, with a real preference for privacy over personalization

    By being set, it protects my privacy as long as "recipients" abide by it without question — it only becomes an issue when "recipients" qualify when they will abide by it.

    If active choice is not an option, a default in favour of not tracking seems a better position to me but, then again, I am not an ad network executive.

    1. Re:It does not protect anyone's privacy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The point is, DNT only works, at present, on a voluntary basis. As you say, your stance (privacy by default) is not what any ad company will voluntarily choose -- but as long as only a few users opt-in, it can make sense to roll with it for good PR, and to keep the people who care about privacy placated so they don't agitate for privacy regulations the ad men would have to comply with.

      It does not protect anyone's privacy unless the recipients believe it was set by a real human being, with a real preference for privacy over personalization

      Yeah, that is bull. The recipients don't care that it's set by a real human being, they care that it's set on a small enough fraction of UAs that the PR is worth more than the value of the data they forgo. The former (for now) satisfies the latter, but if enough people started setting it, it'd still be too many, and they'd start ignoring it.

      Now you may (as I do) consider the whole situation laughable, because it by design secures privacy for a few by throwing the masses to the wolves, but that's the system we have, and IE's default breaks the conditions under which that system can continue to exist. There's only three ways it can play out (so long as it's the same voluntary cooperation):

      (A) ad networks see IE's market share as "too much", disregard DNT altogether.
      (B) ad networks see IE's market share as acceptable losses and continue to respect DNT across the board; Firefox etc. eventually copy IE's default; ad networks then disregard DNT altogether.
      (C) ad networks see IE's market share as "too much", disregard DNT only on IE, nobody copies IE -- at the very least the system continues to work for people who care enough to set DNT on non-IE UAs, and there's the possibility IE switches back to opt-in DNT, after which the ad networks will restore the status quo.

      A and B are total losses (of the voluntary scheme; the aftermath may or may not result in new privacy regulations); C maintains the status quo for many users, and has the possibility to return to status quo across the board.

      By being set, it protects my privacy as long as "recipients" abide by it without question — it only becomes an issue when "recipients" qualify when they will abide by it.

      Oh, come off it. It protects your privacy when those qualifications don't affect you. So don't run IE, and it still protects your privacy. Now if you meant "it protects everyone's privacy as long as "recipients" abide by it without question" , then yes. But since we all know the DNT system is designed to operate by throwing ignorant or apathetic individuals to the wolves, protesting that it doesn't protect everyone's privacy is kinda disingenuous.

    2. Re:It does not protect anyone's privacy... by Neil_Brown · · Score: 1, Troll

      Interesting points — thanks!

    3. Re:It does not protect anyone's privacy... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1, Redundant

      I can't believe you haven't been modded as a troll. Has nobody told you how things work around here? You never thanks a person for disagreeing with you. It just isn't done, for fsck's sake. If it catches on you'll ruin Slashdot!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    4. Re:It does not protect anyone's privacy... by Elldallan · · Score: 1

      For your A the the ad providers can expect there to be lawsuits right on their tails as soon as they take that path and eventually maybe even regulation.
      For your B things will work until everybody copies IE which will happen as soon as everybody else see that they continue to respect IE's DNT and then things will go down the exact same route as A.
      For your C when the ad providers that selectively only disregard IE DNT they will most likely be served with big lawsuits from MS and once that happens every other browser will promptly copy IE.

      With your C do you seriously believe that the ad providers would restore status quo if IE dropped DNT as default? That (pretty much) never happens, once they stop respecting DNT they will do it across the board and will never go back because there is no incentive to do so, the only way to get back to status quo is with severe government regulation and even then only with much grumbling and only after the government has made an example out of someone.

      The ad providers have better start thinking on the next scheme for foisting ads on everyone because the current one is bound to go the way of popup ads, probably sooner rather than later.

    5. Re:It does not protect anyone's privacy... by Aserrann · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that is bull. The recipients don't care that it's set by a real human being, they care that it's set on a small enough fraction of UAs that the PR is worth more than the value of the data they forgo.

      I think you're a bit off saying they don't care at all. The only reason they have to go with the DNT flag is for PR purposes. If their reason to break it is simply that it cuts into their income too much, they don't get any PR benefit. However, if they can break it and say that it was being abused, they can possibly get some benefit for trying at least.

    6. Re:It does not protect anyone's privacy... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The former (for now) satisfies the latter, but if enough people started setting it, it'd still be too many, and they'd start ignoring it.

      They might not be legally able to do so in EU, but it's only clear cut if the user does indeed explicitly enable it.

    7. Re:It does not protect anyone's privacy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For your A the the ad providers can expect there to be lawsuits right on their tails as soon as they take that path and eventually maybe even regulation.

      For your B things will work until everybody copies IE which will happen as soon as everybody else see that they continue to respect IE's DNT and then things will go down the exact same route as A.

      For your C when the ad providers that selectively only disregard IE DNT they will most likely be served with big lawsuits from MS

      Hahah, on what possible theory does MS have standing?

      Anyway, the lawsuits in A and B would happen, but they'll fail (in the US, at any rate) because DNT is completely VOLUNTARY -- there's no contractual relationship, and no privacy right relevant to tracking under current US law. The step after the lawsuits fail is where we MIGHT get new privacy regulations. Or we might not (Yay pro-corporate government!).

      With your C do you seriously believe that the ad providers would restore status quo if IE dropped DNT as default? That (pretty much) never happens, once they stop respecting DNT they will do it across the board and will never go back because there is no incentive to do so, the only way to get back to status quo is with severe government regulation and even then only with much grumbling and only after the government has made an example out of someone.

      And they don't want severe government regulation, much less to be made an example of; this is the incentive you say isn't there.

      * Ignoring IE versions with DNT default is logical because there's a lot to gain (tracking the perhaps 30% of users who use IE), and they've got an excuse (default-on violates the standard) that lets them still claim to honor DNT in front of regulators.
      * Ignoring DNT everywhere gets marginally more benefit (tracking what, 1%? 10%? of non-IE users -- the fraction who had DNT set), but greatly increases the risk of regulation (not only can they no longer point to DNT and say "see, self-regulating; it's all good!", but they are hard pressed to argue privacy's not an issue when they WERE engaged in DNT, then stopped).
      * continuing to ignore new IE versions after the default is fixed has the same gains as ignoring IE now, with the same risks as ignoring everyone now -- if they find those risks acceptable (which I doubt), they may as well ignore DNT globally; conversely if they do ignore it only on IE, it indicates they don't like those odds, and will likely honor it if/when IE comes back to the fold.

  4. How it seems... by p0p0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How it seems to me, in a simplified way, is that advertisers feel they have the right to serve you ads. Off the bat, I disagree with this notion, however I do see that without ads many websites would not be around or would be forced to hide behind a paywall.
    At the same time, what guarantee do advertisers give users that their ads are not a potential attack vector, or what standard do they follow that their ads are not intrusive and degrade the performance of a users machine or overly distract and irritate the users? How invasive do their ads and data collection get to be?

    Overall, I see where they are coming from but at the same time all I hear is a bunch of self-entitled whiners. Is there any good reason to instantly get tracked as soon as you visit your first website, or should you be allowed to later reveal yourself to the world if you so desire the features this advertises and data miners claim to provide? The most obvious being targeted ads and more relevant searches when using Google.

    1. Re:How it seems... by Stormthirst · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At the same time, what guarantee do advertisers give users that their ads are not a potential attack vector, or what standard do they follow that their ads are not intrusive and degrade the performance of a users machine or overly distract and irritate the users? How invasive do their ads and data collection get to be?

      So all adverts then.

      I have ad-blocking on by default. There are only a couple of sites where I specifically allow them to be shown, because as you point out some sites can't exist without them. I don't like adverts, and I go out of my way to avoid buying anything that is "advertised". If I want something, I'll go looking for it, research it, and the buy it.

      I don't take calls from cold callers either - I think they are as distracting, irritating and privacy invading as adverts on websites.

    2. Re:How it seems... by Motard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tracking is not required to serve ads. I don't mind seeing billboards on the side of the road, but if the billboard is photographing my license plate and sending that to a central server, I have a problem with that.

    3. Re:How it seems... by Graham+J+-+XVI · · Score: 0

      Totally agree.

    4. Re:How it seems... by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      I do see that without ads many websites would not be around or would be forced to hide behind a paywall...

      Good riddance to 'em. This crap is clogging the tubes.They can serve up static ads on their own damn servers, instead of bouncing us back and forth amongst a boatload of ad servers.

        Quit your shillin'. I have no obligation to let them infect my machine, or know anything about me if I don't want. Obviously this 'DNT' thing is worthless. I'll stop them the old fashion way by blocking their servers.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:How it seems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly the point I was going to make - you don't need to be tracked to for the ads to be displayed. It's just less effective that way, because the advertiser does not know your lifestyle and preferences. Tracking can be beneficial for both the advertiser and the user - we all like to be offered relevant content, and the advertiser likes to offer it to people who he thinks will be interested. The problem is NOT EVERYBODY likes to be followed around and have a good piece of their life noted down in a central database.

      My opinion is that the default option should always be choice, and will I always oppose having someone make the decision for me. And everyone else should learn that having a choice matters.

    6. Re:How it seems... by Compaqt · · Score: 2

      The attack vector argument is a very good one.

      I've seen multiple instances of malware-laden ads being served by "mainstream" ad networks on multiple sub-1000 Alexa sites.

      Some or another advertiser throws up some script (by design or not), and suddenly, you're getting pwned.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    7. Re:How it seems... by martin-boundary · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tracking can be beneficial for both the advertiser and the user - we all like to be offered relevant content, and the advertiser likes to offer it to people who he thinks will be interested.

      No, we do NOT. We do NOT all like to be offered RELEVANT content. That is one of the insidious fallacies that ad peddlers (and Google is a prime offender) like to claim so they can justify their practices.

      Ads are noise, whether they are relevant or not. Take your favourite kind of music, say your favourite songs from your favourite band. Do you want to hear those songs ALL THE TIME? While you're driving to work, while working, after work when watching TV, etc? Clearly NOT.

      NEARLY ALL THE TIME, PEOPLE DON'T WANT ADVERTISING, RELEVANT OR NOT (caps to make it easy on the stupid Googlebot ;-)

      The whole idea that we need to be aware of available choices and having choices is good is bullshit. What we need is to be able to control our environment, and if we want choices we'll ask our friends first, thanks very much.

    8. Re:How it seems... by moronoxyd · · Score: 2

      My opinion is that the default option should always be choice, and will I always oppose having someone make the decision for me. And everyone else should learn that having a choice matters.

      With a yes/no toggle, there is always a choice made for you in the beginning.
      Either DNT is 'on', or it is 'off'.

      As enough people have pointed out already DNT is doomed to fail anyway: As soon as people are starting to use it in great numbers, the advertisers are going to not follow it anymore.

    9. Re:How it seems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Usually, when I need something, I go searching for it. If I don't need it, what does an ad do except alter my mind? If I couldn't live without it, I WOULD ALREADY HAVE IT. Ads are not used to show you stuff or get the info 'to you'. They are explicitly used to alter your mind. I like my mind. STAY OUT OF IT. Thank you.

    10. Re:How it seems... by Elldallan · · Score: 1

      Personally I don't really have a big problem with the ads themselves as long as they are not intrusive or possible attack vectors but I definitely have zero tolerance for the whole tracking part.

    11. Re:How it seems... by penguinbrat · · Score: 1

      I call bullshit! I give my own experience lately as evidence - I HATE those lame/annoying tampon adds, they are f'ing everywhere and mean ZERO to me to say the least. Recently I've been doing a lot searching for tires and now, regardless if I follow them or not, I'm receiving more adds for tires - whether I follow them or not is a different story all together - the web is full of banners, although I would MUCH rather see a an advertisement for a tire than free flowing tampons!

    12. Re:How it seems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We do NOT all like to be offered RELEVANT content.

      I call bullshit! I give my own experience lately as evidence

      You have experience of everyone liking to be offered "relevant content"? Or are you just trying to elevate your own preferences above everyone else?

    13. Re:How it seems... by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      NEARLY ALL THE TIME, PEOPLE DON'T WANT ADVERTISING, RELEVANT OR NOT (caps to make it easy on the stupid Googlebot ;-)

      Well, I don't want to work for a living, either, but I have to, because I will miss out on a lot of good things in life if I don't.

      Same is true for putting up with ads. You may be one of those Luddities who wants to go back to the WWW of 1994, but for my part, I'd appreciate it if you left me out of your Utopia.

      Intrusive ads (Flash, etc.) should be blocked without mercy, but the "tracking" process that shows me ads from SparkFun and DigiKey and SourceForge rather than Cosmopolitan, the "Try this 1 Weird Trick to Lose Abdominal Fat" people, and the Westboro Baptist Church is just fine by me, thanks. Let's focus on fixing the actual abuses.

    14. Re:How it seems... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Even if they did have such a right, they forfeit it the instant they started putting up stupid shit like monkey punching.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    15. Re:How it seems... by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      I will continue to block ads until there are no such ads as that "try this 1 weird trick to lose abdominal fat" bullshit.

      Unfortunately for sites that need ad revenue to survive, this means they won't ever get it from me.

      Advertisers shat where they eat the moment they forgot about things like "standards."

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    16. Re:How it seems... by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
      Huh? Seriously? You think watching ads is like working for a living?

      You need to wake up. You don't actually have to watch ads. You're not going to be evicted from your home, or prevented from getting a car loan, and restaurants aren't going to turn you away because you didn't watch your quota of ads that day.

    17. Re:How it seems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we all like to be offered relevant content

      Advertisers have a completely different definition of "relevant" than I and 99% of the population do.

    18. Re:How it seems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With a yes/no toggle, there is always a choice made for you in the beginning. Either DNT is 'on', or it is 'off'.

      But that's the point. DNT has three options. On, off, and unset. Microsoft have removed the third option, and that is why the DNT makers have their panties in a wad. It has more value with three options than with only two.

    19. Re:How it seems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is actually a middle ground between needing something and not needing something. That is the group of things that would improve your life (e.g. save you time or money or maybe even just something you'll really enjoy), but you don't know about. Now if there was something you didn't have that would save you money if you had it, wouldn't you want to be told about it?

    20. Re:How it seems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're not helping with the whitelisted ads, if you're not buying something advertised there. you cost them traffic, but if you do not click (and buy!) anyway, they do not profit from you.

    21. Re:How it seems... by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      I do occasionally click on the ads, but usually find things are way more expensive than advertised because the shipping costs and import duty is way higher than I originally figured.

  5. DNT is a farse anyway by evanh · · Score: 1

    If you want to be a good netisen developer, and support those that don't want/care about personalisation, then how about making an effort to support scriptless browsing?

  6. Does it really work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A cynical person could think that it's Microsoft trying to make DNT completely useless. Rather than mostly useless.

    1. Re:Does it really work? by Mabhatter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it's very useful. Microsoft Windows is basically a monopoly on the PC desktop now. Microsoft is ALSO an ad company. They have Bing set as default and built into the OS, they dont need that specific kind of tracking to make their money. By setting the flag they kneecap the other agencies for oppressing the users... And get to play "white knight" about it in the press.

      This is about Microsoft using the standard to kick other ads out, I'm sure they have exceptions when the ad servers are contacted by the OS itself. Not to mention Microsoft is moving to their "fully owned " platforms. Who can turn off XBox ads, Windows Mobile Ads, Windows Surface Ads?

    2. Re:Does it really work? by Elldallan · · Score: 1

      Yes MS has a definite monopoly on the PC and once MS starts to peddle ads directly in windows you can expect there to be antitrust lawsuits and huge EC fines unless they let everyone else in on the deal.

    3. Re:Does it really work? by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      They have Bing set as default and built into the OS

      utter bullshit.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    4. Re:Does it really work? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Bing is not "built into the OS". It's the default search engine in IE if you choose express settings, but that's about it. It will also respect DNT requests.

      In the other post you've made it clearer that what you actually meant is in-app ads. But of course that would only pertain to Win8 Metro and WP8 apps, and neither of those are, shall we say, particularly popular now. Nor, for that matter, you are forced to serve Bing ads in Win8 apps - you get that option, but you can just as well use Google or whatever, the developer licensing agreement explicitly allows for that.

    5. Re:Does it really work? by skarphace · · Score: 1

      Is that any more bullshit than Mozilla being paid to set Google as the default on Firefox?

      --
      Bullish Machine Tzar
    6. Re:Does it really work? by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      bing is NOT built into the os. its not even built into the browser. on first run, there's a dialog telling you to choose your favorite search engine.
      and mozilla IS paid to set google as default on firefox, and trust me, its perfectly fine.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
  7. A roundabout way of saying that DNT is... by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...useless and silly.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:A roundabout way of saying that DNT is... by Moxon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, yes. Expecting ad agencies to honor DNT seems about as clever as firewalling based on the April fool's "evil bit". In both cases, the people doing something you don't want have to choose to honor your wish. Good luck with that.

    2. Re:A roundabout way of saying that DNT is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe not. There are countries with privacy laws that are worth more than the paper they're written on. Broadly ignoring DNT requests might not go over well with judges should somebody sue. This might make Apache products a liability.

    3. Re:A roundabout way of saying that DNT is... by skarphace · · Score: 1

      But at the same time the vast majority of crawlers respect robots.txt even though they'd prefer to take your tasty content. Voluntary isn't always destined to fail.

      --
      Bullish Machine Tzar
    4. Re:A roundabout way of saying that DNT is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If someone wants their DNT request to be honoured, they should use a browser that didn't make the retarded choice to set it by default. A DNT request should be an active choice as it indicates the user actually gives at least 1 fig about their privacy, whereas the user who needs it set for them doesn't really care.

      Now you could argue that advertisers should not be tracking at all, but to enforce that you need it enshrined in law, for a voluntary system to work the advertisers need to see it as reasonable, Microsoft's choice for IE10 was unreasonable.

    5. Re:A roundabout way of saying that DNT is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is that you can set robots.txt traps. If any user, including a spider, does not follow my robots.txt and access a part of the site blocked there or access a part of the site only mentioned there, they are banned. Well, they are actually tarpitted, eventually end up in the honeypot and generally screwed with as long as I have the resources; if those get low, then they are banned outright.

      A fun one is when they request an image to replace it with randomly generated crap (from a different PRNG other than the one that does system stuff) and to continue feeding that image data until it hits 4GB. Of course, that data is throttled as well. I have had a connection like that last for days. Sometime, I'l like to uncap the transfer rate just to see how much data some of those unscrupulous would download before giving up.

  8. Marketroids? by 19061969 · · Score: 2

    So let's see if I have this straight? The marketroids are saying that, by their default, I want to hear all the crap they are paid to push and unless I explictly say, "get lost', they'll continue to bug me until I collapse under the weight of junk product info?

    Did Bill Hicks have a great point?

    --
    bang goes my karma... again...
    1. Re:Marketroids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slight amendment: By default you want to be tracked everywhere you go and in everything you do. You get to see their ads either way.

    2. Re:Marketroids? by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      The ad companies know that some people don't like being tracked, and that these people tend to block all their ads. They realized that by offering not to track these users they might not block the ads. Thus, they chose to honor (and created) Do Not Track. They hope the decreased tracking revenue is offset by the increased number of viewers. By setting DNT on by default IE ruins this plan, and they go back to the way things were before DNT: track everything, get blocked by those who care.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    3. Re:Marketroids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Your choice is not between ads and no ads, it's between tracked ads and non-tracked ads. Setting on DNT doesn't mean that suddenly all the ads on the web are going to disappear while you continue to enjoy almost every website and webservice completely gratis, it means the ads are going to stay, but now they will be about random stuff instead of being about that product you were googleing yesterday.

      I hate ads as much as the next guy, but framing the tracking-ads discussion in terms of weather you like ads in general is completely misguided.

    4. Re:Marketroids? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have it straight.

      DNT has three options, not just two: "yes, I definitely want to be tracked", "no, I definitely do not want to be tracked", and "I have not made a choice either way". Microsoft has chosen to throw away that third option. The marketdroids feel that the people who fall in the third category should not automatically be assumed to fall in the second. And they kind of have a point. Most will, but not all. And if Microsoft pushes everyone into that category, then that category loses all meaning.

      As someone who falls into that category, I do not want Microsoft to diminish its value.

  9. Way to go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd like to hear Mr. Fielding's estimate of the percentage of users who want to be tracked by advertisers. My own estimate is zero.

    You are not fighting the good fight here, Roy.

    1. Re:Way to go by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 1

      My estimate is closer to one or two percent. I say that because there will always be those dumbasses and advertising dickheads that just have to be different. But they're a minority; anyone in their right mind values their own privacy. I wonder if this Fielding asshole uses the DNT option himself.

  10. You have free speech by santax · · Score: 1

    But if you say another word we will take it away...

  11. DNT fails, film at 11 by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

    This means advertisers will be ignoring the DNT altogether no matter how a particular browser is set up.

    No surprise there. The only unknown was how the advertisers were going to rationalize that.

    --
    [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
  12. So in short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like Roy is an arsehole who wants to help kill his own joke of a standard. Good to know.

  13. Two wrongs do not make a right by another+random+user · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Ignoring the issue around if IE10 should set the DNT flag by default or not, this patch only makes the situation worse.

    With this patch, even if the user has explicitly chosen to set the DNT flag, the server will ignore it. They claim this patch has to be done because IE 10 ignores part of the spec:

    "Key to that notion of expression is that it must reflect the user's preference, not the preference of some institutional or network-imposed mechanism outside the user's control."

    This patch however also ignores this same element of the spec, in that no matter what the user may or may not of done, there will be a "mechanism outside the user's control" (the Apache server) which decides on what they want the preference to be.

    I do agree that the DNT setting should be a user choice, perhaps given when the user first installs the browser as well as having the option to change it at any time, but to me this is not the right response to having a default set - although I'm sure if the default setting was that tracking was allowed, the add people would for some reason not be complaining about having a default...

    --
    -1 troll is not supposed to be used simply because you don't agree
    1. Re:Two wrongs do not make a right by John+Hasler · · Score: 2

      This patch however also ignores this same element of the spec, in that no matter what the user may or may not of done, there will be a "mechanism outside the user's control" (the Apache server) which decides on what they want the preference to be.

      DNT is purely advisory. Advertisers who want to ignore it are going to configure their servers to do so. If it is too hard to do so with Apache they'll use somthing else.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:Two wrongs do not make a right by Likes+Microsoft · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Advertisers and sites that depend on them don't want to admit that choosing to use a certain browser and allowing itts default settings *is* a choice. They are also free to request the user to turn DNT off before they serve up key features. They apparently *really* don't like the idea of having to explicitly ask, "can I follow you wherever you go after this"?

      --
      -- Who am I? How did I get here? My God, what have I done?!
    3. Re:Two wrongs do not make a right by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      It's an HTTP header. They can ignore it without any server configuration.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    4. Re:Two wrongs do not make a right by makomk · · Score: 2

      Advertisers and sites that depend on them don't want to admit that choosing to use a certain browser and allowing itts default settings *is* a choice.

      When that browser is bundled with the OS installed on 95% of all PCs, it's not a choice at all - it's indifference. Complete, total indifference.

    5. Re:Two wrongs do not make a right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When that browser is bundled with the OS installed on 95% of all PCs, it's not a choice at all - it's indifference. Complete, total indifference.

      I don't necessarily disagree with your point. I guess my thought is that who are the advertisers to say for sure what I am and am not choosing? If the f-ing DNT header is there, respect it. If you don't like it being there, notify the customer that their client is indicating they don't wish to be tracked, and offer steps to turn that off.

      I think the "trackers" out there are just absolutely terrified of having to make what they do explicit to the average end user. They want the "indifferent" option to be total surrender to the presence of a bunch of "little brothers" chipping away at our privacy.

      This kind of resistance is going to be remembered down the line, when watchdog groups find instances of companies failing to respect DNT headers. If enough of a pattern is found, the "trackers" will need to be able to prove to Congress that they can do the right thing without it getting legislated to them.

    6. Re:Two wrongs do not make a right by Likes+Microsoft · · Score: 1

      I don't necessarily disagree with your point. I guess my thought is that who are the advertisers to say for sure what I am and am not choosing?

      Oops. Need to check if I'm logged in when I comment. Above comment I'm replying to here was mine.

      --
      -- Who am I? How did I get here? My God, what have I done?!
    7. Re:Two wrongs do not make a right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it's not a choice on other operating systems, since there's no IE there. It's not a choice on MS systems either, since it's the default.

    8. Re:Two wrongs do not make a right by shiftless · · Score: 1

      This kind of resistance is going to be remembered down the line, when watchdog groups find instances of companies failing to respect DNT headers. If enough of a pattern is found, the "trackers" will need to be able to prove to Congress that they can do the right thing without it getting legislated to them.

      Why in the world would they need to do that? I thought this was a free country.

  14. Just stick it in the EULA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That way it won't be on be default; it will only be turned on when the user manually turns it on by hitting "accept".

  15. I remember same debate about pop-up blockers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There were many of the same arguments to why pop-up blockers should not block popups by default, but only if it was set by the user and represented the active preference of the user. That websites were dependent upon such tactics to get necessary revenue to serve us content, so it shouldn't be undermined.

    1. Re:I remember same debate about pop-up blockers by Celarent+Darii · · Score: 1

      And yet now almost all major browsers block popups by default.

      DNT in some ways was the last resort for ad companies. In the near future all browsersmnow come with adblock. It would be interesting, in the current Apple-Google war, if Apple made Safari block all adds by default. I for one would welcome the web without all the visual pollution.

    2. Re:I remember same debate about pop-up blockers by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      Suggestion: Try a text browser. Seriously. At first it seems primitive, but stick with it for a few days, just enough time to get used to the keys etc. It's amazing how relaxing it gets to read websites without *any* visual layout or fonts or pictures of any kind. Pure information, all the time. I switched about 10 years ago, and still only run firefox occasionally.

  16. not surprised, don't really care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When they can override my HOSTS, peerblock, and/or AdBlock along with NoScript I might care.

    Good luck, bitches.

  17. MS aren't doing it for altruism anyway by DrXym · · Score: 0

    Microsoft are setting DNT on Windows 8 (and by extension their phones and tablets) so that competing advertising services like Google et al are shut out of their ecosystem. I bet whatever terms and conditions pop up when a Windows 8 starts for the first time, or via those Bing apps means that the DNT setting don't apply to Microsoft itself.

    1. Re:MS aren't doing it for altruism anyway by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

      The DNT setting applies to everyone, and ironically it appears MS are about the only ones that abide by it. I having DNT by default seems to me to be the intelligent choice, The default should always err on the side of a users privacy. Why the fuck are people suddenly supporting the right to be tracked??? You should require explicit permissions from the person in order to track them.

    2. Re:MS aren't doing it for altruism anyway by oldlurker · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Microsoft are setting DNT on Windows 8 (and by extension their phones and tablets) so that competing advertising services like Google et al are shut out of their ecosystem. I bet whatever terms and conditions pop up when a Windows 8 starts for the first time, or via those Bing apps means that the DNT setting don't apply to Microsoft itself.

      Actually, it seems IE10-team has a pretty independent focus on user experience. On my Windows 8 test machine it has proactively several times recommended to remove addins from Microsoft to speed up performance (from Bing, from Windows Live, from Office!). I'm guessing those other MS divisions must be livid. I know we've loved to make fun of IE for quite some time, but it is a good thing that IE10 is shaping up quite nicely (we don't want to replace "made for IE6" with "made for webkit", and you can see what more is coming at http://html5labs.interoperabilitybridges.com/

    3. Re:MS aren't doing it for altruism anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It just applies to tracking over the web. A huge number of users will be using Windows, and a huge number will be using Internet Explorer, and MS writes Internet Explorer so still has the ability to track you. They are building in things in like the Windows Store where most apps will be downloaded too.

    4. Re:MS aren't doing it for altruism anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DNT setting applies to everyone, and ironically it appears MS are about the only ones that abide by it. I having DNT by default seems to me to be the intelligent choice, The default should always err on the side of a users privacy. Why the fuck are people suddenly supporting the right to be tracked??? You should require explicit permissions from the person in order to track them.

      You've oversimplified. The people doing the tracking are only willing to abide by an opt-in setting. If it doesn't remain opt-in, nobody will get the benefit of it.

    5. Re:MS aren't doing it for altruism anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kickbacks? How many of these supporters have sites with one or more ads being served?

    6. Re:MS aren't doing it for altruism anyway by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Microsoft are setting DNT on Windows 8 (and by extension their phones and tablets) so that competing advertising services like Google et al are shut out of their ecosystem.

      Then what do you make of the fact that ad-supported Win8 Metro apps can serve Google (or Apple, or whoever) ads rather than just Bing ones?

    7. Re:MS aren't doing it for altruism anyway by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      An opt-in setting would mean the vast majority will not get the benefit. Basically this is the Ad companies saying we don't mind if a few people prevent us tracking them but if it becomes the norm we are going to ignore you. Well they can go fuck themselves, Sounds to me like time for government to step in and regulate them if they wish to ignore a persons right to privacy.

    8. Re:MS aren't doing it for altruism anyway by firewrought · · Score: 1

      I having DNT by default seems to me to be the intelligent choice, The default should always err on the side of a users privacy. Why the fuck are people suddenly supporting the right to be tracked???

      You sound really shocked. Maybe that should have been a clue that you were lacking some rudimentary understanding of the situation? You could have... perhaps, done a little bit of reading before hitting the Post button and whipping out a knee-jerk response, just maybe?

      You should require explicit permissions from the person in order to track them.

      Unfortunately, advertisers don't share this belief and we have neither the technical capability nor the legislative willpower to force them. DNT is an attempt to ask them nicely. It's a social approach, and it requires their cooperation to work... it's not like it's some magic switch that cuts off their ability to track us (in fact, at a technical level, it allows them to track you easier than before via browser thumbprinting).

      If you're going to enable DNT by default everywhere, why don't you just write a letter to all internet tracking firms asking them to please go out of business? It would be easier to implement and more likely to get results (e.g,. still not a chance in hell).

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
  18. You will be tracked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just like your mom ignores your "do not disturb" sign when you are fapping.

  19. So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by benjymouse · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When using IE10 for the first time (per user) you get a screen where you can choose "express settings". The screen clearly spells out what that means, *including* what DNT will be set to. Arguably, the user *has* made a decision by selecting express settings. How does Roy Fieldings patch determine how much of that text the user read before continuing?

    And how does the patch determine when a user *explicitly* sets the DNT.

    Yes, Microsoft probably does this because it will annoy Google and hurt them more than it will hurt Bing. But at the same time it does help protect users' privacy. What a joke if Apache accepts this patch. What a sell-out. Disgusting.

    --
    Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
    1. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      IE 10's way of setting that as user's choice is a problem. The user probably doesn't really read through express settings. Accepting them is more like: "sure whatever, I can't be bothered reading through all this". So, DNT isn't explicitly asked for by user choice. I don't think this would be such an issue if IE explicitly asked if DNT should be enabled or not.

      Now, you can argue that DNT should be the default, but someone else can argue that if he's paying for a service by watching advertisements, he sure as hell wants them to be as relevant as possible. That means he probably doesn't want DNT enabled...

    2. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I though Apache Foundation was about freedom not suckling at the the teat of the advertising networks and "Big Business." Am I going to have to swap out my Apache web server on principle as an expression of protest?

    3. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      What a joke if Apache accepts this patch. What a sell-out. Disgusting.

      What will be more interesting to see is what happens if Apache *does* accept the patch. They will be the first, but the true question is whether nginx, lighttpd, and in particular IIS follow suit. Advertisers wanting tracking data and pressuring the most popular web server software in the world to ignore a "pretty please" that becomes a default in a popular web browser* on what will likely become a popular operating system* makes perfectly logical sense. nginx has gotten pretty popular recently, but if they accept the patch, will that help or hinder their market share? Will Microsoft provide the ability to override the DNT flag in their own web server software? If so, will it be backported to the supported versions of IIS, or will it become a selling point for server 2012?

      *Yes, I know Slashdot hates IE, but advertisers aren't terribly interested in your data since you're unlikely to click the ads anyway. They're far more interested in average computer users who would accept the default in either direction and are more likely to click on ads. Similarly, while Win8 isn't popular in the Slashdot crowd and understandably so, don't underestimate the power of the sub-$800 laptop crowd that will use Windows 8 because that's what comes on it, especially if things like Classic Shell can help keep Win8 instead of causing a Win7 regression like Vista->XP.

    4. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What will be more interesting to see is what happens if Apache *does* accept the patch. They will be the first, but the true question is whether nginx, lighttpd, and in particular IIS follow suit. Advertisers wanting tracking data and pressuring the most popular web server software in the world to ignore a "pretty please" that becomes a default in a popular web browser* on what will likely become a popular operating system* makes perfectly logical sense. nginx has gotten pretty popular recently, but if they accept the patch, will that help or hinder their market share? Will Microsoft provide the ability to override the DNT flag in their own web server software? If so, will it be backported to the supported versions of IIS, or will it become a selling point for server 2012?

      Honouring the DNT flag is the responsibility of the advertisers' own scripts, since that's where the tracking happens in the first place. (The specs are almost incomprehensible, but I highly doubt that the intention is to interfere with the standard web server logging.) All the server does is tell the script whether the flag was specified in the request, and all this patch (really a default configuration change) does is prevent Apache from doing that if the request comes from IE10. If the advertiser wants to ignore DNT then all they have to do is not write the code to respect it; it doesn't require any special features in the web server.

    5. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by paimin · · Score: 1

      So how does an IE10 user express "I don't care about DNT"? MS has decided for them.

      --
      Facebook is the new AOL
    6. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they don't care, then they also don't care if MS turns it on by default and doesn't say anything about it.
      Fallacies. Fallacies everywhere.

    7. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      They press the back button, and then they do not choose the express setup.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    8. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To MS IIS?

    9. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      They pick "custom" instead of "express", and then go answer each question separately. They can say yes to DNT there.

    10. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by paimin · · Score: 1

      Not "yes". "No preference indicated".

      --
      Facebook is the new AOL
    11. Re:So when is it a default setting, mr. Fielding? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I don't see anything in the RFC that requires the user agent to present this option. It only says, " It MUST NOT transmit OPT-IN without explicit user consent" - and that's pretty much the only hard requirement on that. Which implies that it can definitely translate the opt-out header for the lack of such consent.

  20. How is this any different... by mschaffer · · Score: 1

    How is this any different from Google circumventing the default privacy settings in Apple's Safari?
    Google was sued here. Since Apache isn't a company, is this the way for the likes of Google and others to get their bidding done?

  21. Do not track by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Should be standard procedure, and we shouldn't need some new protocol to argue over.

    Its invasive, and wrong. Period.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Do not track by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 0

      And yet you agree to it when you chose to use their service. It is not their fault that you failed to read the TOS or EULA. That you agreed to.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    2. Re:Do not track by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      I see you *totally* missed my point.

      Let me make it even simpler, so that perhaps you can understand: Even the act of asking for permission is wrong. Even the act of wanting to ask for permission is wrong.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    3. Re:Do not track by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean that ridiculously long 63 page EULA written in confusing legalise so as to actively discourage people from reading it? Even assuming one slogs through the entirety of the text, the overwhelming majority of people simply aren't qualified to interpret it. Including you, ya douchebag.

      The problem with people like you is that you have no understanding of ethics. You think that as long as 'the law is the law', anybody should be able to dick anybody else over to the fullest, maximum possible extent; and human society at large should accept, nay, praise such behaviour, because it's all right there spelled out! The people on the receiving end were just too stupid to read it.

      I hate that our world is filling up with people like you. Get fucked you parasite.

    4. Re:Do not track by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Thing is, they agreed not to track me when I inquired about their service. It's in my HTTP headers.

      If they chose to go ahead and do business with me anyway, I don't need to read their TOS or EULA. If they really want me to read those, they need to withhold service until I do.

    5. Re:Do not track by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm impressed that you have managed to learn how to write without picking up the ability to read :)

      His point is that you never get to the EULA stage before the organisation in question is informed that the visitor does not want to be tracked. For the rest I am mystified where you got your conclusions from re. ethics - they are certainly not based on anything in hist post.

      Maybe you should lay off the double espressos for a while..

      (btw, I *am* qualified to read through a EULA, and even with an EULA you cannot force access to people's details as the permission for use of personal information has to be EXPLICIT, i.e. not implicit by burying it in a EULA).

  22. What if MS... by Eirenarch · · Score: 1

    I would laugh so much if MS include an ad block in IE and turn it on by default.

    1. Re:What if MS... by Deathlizard · · Score: 1

      They do

      They don't turn it on by default, and it's not as good as Adblock Plus or Adblock for Chrome (it cannot block ads embedded in flash, like Youtube video ads for example), but it can be set to block most static ads.

    2. Re:What if MS... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a MSFT Shill and I didn't even know about this...
      Just downloaded each and every list on there... thanks man

  23. Legally, DNT *IS* the default by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In case it has faded from people's memory, PRIVACY IS A FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT - enshrined in laws across the planet.

    That wasn't some arbitrary, weird, one-man-and-his-hobby-horse decision, this was the result of a serious amount of very costly and capable people sitting together and hammering out basic principles. A bit like the US Constitution that US politicians appear so keen to ignore.

    So, from that principle, not wanting to be tracked IS the legally correct default, DNT should have never been needed, only a "DT" ("Do track, because I don't care about my rights"). If Mr Roy Fielding is writing a patch to override what should have been a default to start with (the jammering and global breaking of this principle by marketing people across the globe does not define breaking the law as rule), then Mr Roy Fielding is effectively on his way to break the law in practically any part of Europe.

    DNT is an excuse to casually ignore the fact that fundamental principles were already broken by companies raking it in on the back of breaking fundamental principles (yes, Google and Facebook, I'm looking at you).

    Let me put it this way - if this patch goes live anywhere in Europe, a complaint to the relevant government department in charge of Data Protection WILL be made. No ifs, no buts, no maybes.

    It's time we start working on people's rights - because with such idiocy and cow-towing to money nobody is going to do it for you.

    1. Re:Legally, DNT *IS* the default by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

      Those principles went the way of the dodo the day that the EULA was invented.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    2. Re:Legally, DNT *IS* the default by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incorrect, The EU Privacy directive mandates everything be opt out, Laws trump commercial agreements/contracts every time.

    3. Re:Legally, DNT *IS* the default by Elldallan · · Score: 2

      Except that an EULA is not a legally binding agreement in a large part of the EU, and also many nations in the EU does not permit signing away some rights enshrined in law even with informed consent.

  24. Shouldn't worry about IE 10 by postmortem · · Score: 0

    Microsoft wants back on browser market at any cost. So this was thing to differentiate IE from rest of pack.

    Other one was to support only few Windows versions. Haha. How stupid. They want to win the browser war by not supporting OSes that half of people have.

  25. choose before installing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't it choice when the user picks which browser to install. If MS is offering DNT turned on and advertising it that way maybe it because that's what people want and are choosing their setting by their choice of browser?

  26. Who are the Good Guys anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Never thought I'd see the day when Apache is the Bad Guy vs. Microsoft.

    1. Re:Who are the Good Guys anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And this is not that day. Microsoft is just trying to take a jab at google, totally disregarding that the way they chose to do it will actually deprive users of the DNT option alltogether. Microsoft cares about our privacy as long as it is at Google's expense.

    2. Re:Who are the Good Guys anymore? by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      And? JD Rockefeller didn't save the whales from extinction because he was a greenpeace hippy, he saved them from extinction because the kerosene he sold was better than whale oil.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  27. Do Not Serve Me Up Some Movie Trailer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am the first to admit that I hate adverts, but understand that sites need them to exists.

    Unfortunately I use AdBlock as standard these days - not because I don't want the ads, but I got so fed up with seeing adverts playing bandwidth hogging movies (such as trailers)

    I would uninstall AdBlock tomorrow if there was some code of conduct drawn up such as:
    * Ads can only animate for a fixed length of time (say 5 seconds)
    * Ads do not get in the way of me viewing my content (such as floating ads I have to click to get rid of them)
    * Ads will only start loading after MY content has finished loading.
    * Total file size of ALL adverts on a single page is limited (to say 150Kb)

    I doubt any advert sellers would ever agree to this though.

    1. Re:Do Not Serve Me Up Some Movie Trailer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And WTF is tracking NECESSARY for advertising?

  28. fielding is a whore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and microsoft is absolutely in the right on this one (for once). The only problem with the whole dnt thing is that it's up to the server whether they respect the header or not. So of course those in favour of profiling and cookies will do everything they can to serve targetted ads.

  29. Noncommercial content by Compaqt · · Score: 1

    For one, yeah, the pre-commercialization web of NCSA Mosaic was awesome. (Not being sarcastic.) It was content-heavy. Down-homey. Come as you are.

    It's really nice to be able to read content by people who are just writing down their thoughts and aren't constrained by have to dream up a certain number of words every day for the sake of pageviews.

    Yet I have trouble finding that stuff anymore. Any normal web query you do will lead to the big sites (HuffPo, etc.) in the SERPs. And if you click on "blog" in Google, you'd expect to find posts by "real people". Instead, everything from the erstwhile AolNews to Time is included in "blog".

    Anybody have a good handle on finding that old-time content? Gopher?

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    1. Re:Noncommercial content by oakgrove · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Try this search engine. It remove the top million sites. Might be what you're looking for.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    2. Re:Noncommercial content by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      Nice, thanks.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    3. Re:Noncommercial content by drooling-dog · · Score: 1

      That's a great (and wonderfully simple) idea. They seem to be having trouble handling the traffic at the moment, though...

  30. The easy way around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use DNT+ with FF, problem solved.

  31. DNT not ON by default by Toreo+asesino · · Score: 4, Informative

    Article is misleading. DNT is enabled if you setup Windows 8 with express settings, at which point it actively states DNT will be set 'on'. Until that point there is no configured values. This is Apache caving into advertiser pressure, pure & simple IMO.

    --
    throw new NoSignatureException();
  32. IE10 to use Tor by default by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It could happen.

  33. DNT is failing by design. by someones · · Score: 2

    If you do not want to be tracked, DO NOT SEND REQUESTS.
    But sending requests with a "please handle this one but dont use it to track me or put it in logfiles" comment ... did anyone *really* expect that to work?

    How much tracking is done via log file analysis alone?
    Not Logging requests that the user specifies makes it a standard for script kiddies only.

    If it was intended for just not putting a cookie... well fail?
    Thats what browser settings are for and what could have been done with more aggressive browser settings alone.

    Sorry to say that, but this whole standard seems to not ever made sense at all...

  34. Sue Apache out of Existence then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Apache Org needs to reject this patch immediately as it opens to many potential liabilities. The first is that any site that includes this patch then provides a direct method of attack against Apache for violating the EU's privacy Regs/Rules/Laws and the U.S. for Misuse of Comptuer Resources as the only way they'll be able to ensure that "I" Set the damn option will be to read my registry w/o permission.

    Personally, I like the fact that it'll be on by default in IE as it means I wont have to remember to enable it. Another reason the Apache Org Needs to reject this patch is the fact that current Regs in the U.S. have it as Opt Out for Advertisers and by ignoring this, they're deciding on the behalf of all advertisers to Violate that Agreement between the Advertisers and the DoJ in regards to this entire issue and risk having the Feds shut the project down, forcing everyone over to IIS and Microsoft.

    1. Re:Sue Apache out of Existence then by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Maybe if you weren't anonymous and flashed your actual qualifications and education on the matter they might be more willing to listen to your legal advice?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  35. DNTAISISIM,H! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's introduce just another bit: "Do Not Track And I Swear I Set It Myself, Honestly!".

    My take on this was, from day one: what a stupid idea.

    Switch off cookies, Javascript and filter out tracking gifs as well as you can. Use anonymizing proxies some of the time. Not 100%, but all you can do for now.

    Suffer the usual page-whining like "for maximum experience blah, blah Javascript" (or even NASA's "There's a problem with your browser or settings" -- no, dear Web Designer, there's *no* problem with my browser or settings, to put it politely). That's the price you pay. But it's worth it.

    For the future, don't forget to give a regular spanking to your Congresscritters or equivalent pets.

  36. Nobody's attacking privacy... by Jahava · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is not an attack on privacy. This is the only valid option.

    If you look at the details of the Do Not Track Header, you'll see that there's not much to it. It's an optional HTTP header that represents the user's request not to be tracked. There is no mechanism to actually enforce this choice; any party can easily just ignore the header and track you regardless. The entire purpose of the header is to express a user's intent, and, therefore, the entire value of the header is derived from that intent.

    It's like the "Baby on Board" car signs: If I place one in my car's windowpane, polite drivers should see that sign and grant me additional driving space and courtesies, and I may be able to drive in the carpool lane. Imagine, now, that everyone always puts that sign in their car by default because they want the additional driving space and courtesies. The value of my sign is significantly diluted; not only does standard driving operation make it impossible to honor those requests, but my own actual situation gets lost in the noise. Drivers will surely ignore the little yellow sign altogether, and it becomes worthless.

    Unless "Do Not Track" is actually an explicit expression of a user's conscious intent, it will face the same hypothetical fate and become yet another ignored standard. Its only value is derived from its explicit intent, and Apache and Fielding are taking steps to ensure that the value is not compromised.

    1. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by pla · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's like the "Baby on Board" car signs: If I place one in my car's windowpane, polite drivers should see that sign and grant me additional driving space and courtesies

      Wait, people buy those because they actually believe it will make other drivers more courteous???

      Heh... Personally, I take it as a warning - "This car will go way too slow and has a frequently-distracted driver. Please pass me ASAP, and treat me as you would a potential drunk driver".

    2. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it will face the same hypothetical fate and become yet another ignored standard

      Unless it will be enforced by law with some rather heavy fines for both the advertising company as the advertised entity.

    3. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Unless "Do Not Track" is actually an explicit expression of a user's conscious intent, it will face the same hypothetical fate and become yet another ignored standard.

      So you think most users WANT to be tracked by every shitty ad server on the Internet and only a few people don't?

    4. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "but my own actual situation gets lost in the noise. Drivers will surely ignore the little yellow sign altogether, and it becomes worthless."

      Isn't that exactly what this patch does? Whomever you are, you're bending backwards awfully hard to try to make this sound palatable.

    5. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not correct. DNT doesn't have to be voluntary. Both the EU and the US FCC is looking into online privacy. If the advertisers ignore DNT there is a pretty strong case for legislation. I'm not sure but I think it might already be illegal to disregard it in the EU, or at least explicit require consent for each site to override it.

    6. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by Desler · · Score: 1

      Then it sounds like a worthless standard if it's only valid as long as almost no one uses it.

    7. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by Jahava · · Score: 1

      Unless "Do Not Track" is actually an explicit expression of a user's conscious intent, it will face the same hypothetical fate and become yet another ignored standard.

      So you think most users WANT to be tracked by every shitty ad server on the Internet and only a few people don't?

      It really doesn't matter what I think. This is how the standard was designed and implemented, and IE using it in its current form is clearly abuse. Apache's solution not only restores the (admittedly little) value that the tag has. It's also one of the only ways Apache has to actually take a stand against MS's abuse.

      If DNT ever does get worked into law such that ignoring it carries fines and/or legal penalties, then its value ceases to be derived solely from web sites' acknowledgement of a user's explicit request and, instead, becomes largely derived from the threat of financial penalties. This, being a much stabler source of "power" (although, you know, rights and all), would nullify Apache's argument for their response and they should (and, I would bet, would) remove their new behavior.

      Until then, it is what it is, and their response is very justifiable under those conditions. MS has turned a well-intentioned standard based around a gentleman's agreement into a marketing bullet at the standard's expanse, and Apache is fighting back. Props to them.

    8. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by danomac · · Score: 1

      It's like the "Baby on Board" car signs: If I place one in my car's windowpane, polite drivers should see that sign and grant me additional driving space and courtesies, and I may be able to drive in the carpool lane.

      That "Baby on Board" sign is meant to let paramedics/first responders on scene of an accident know that you have an infant/toddler on board and to rescue them first. It's not and never was meant to be an indicator to other drivers. You're also not supposed to have it on the car when infants/toddlers are not in the vehicle - but almost nobody I've seen does that.

    9. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      It really doesn't matter what I think. This is how the standard was designed and implemented, and IE using it in its current form is clearly abuse.

      When you start Win8 or run IE10 for the first time, it'll ask you to configure some settings. One of them is DNT. You can choose "express", which will set it to on, among other things - but it will also tell you that it'll do so before you choose. Kinda like this.

      So, yes, this is user choice. Ad companies may not like the fact that it's easier to enable DNT than it is to disable it, but that's another story.

      If DNT ever does get worked into law such that ignoring it carries fines and/or legal penalties

      It's already here.

    10. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "but my own actual situation gets lost in the noise. Drivers will surely ignore the little yellow sign altogether, and it becomes worthless."

      Isn't that exactly what this patch does? Whomever you are, you're bending backwards awfully hard to try to make this sound palatable.

      This patch does that for IE 10 only.
      Let me fix GP's analogy:

      It's like the "Baby on Board" car signs: If I place one in my car's windowpane, polite drivers should see that sign and grant me additional driving space and courtesies, and I may be able to drive in the carpool lane. Imagine, now, that Honda puts that sign in all new Hondas by default because they want to give their customers the additional driving space and courtesies. The value of my sign is significantly diluted; not only does standard driving operation make it impossible to honor those requests, but my own actual situation gets lost in the noise. Drivers will surely ignore the little yellow sign altogether, and it becomes worthless.

      This patch, then, is like HUD software (okay, so it's a future-car analogy) that blocks out all BoB signs in cars with Honda emblems -- sucks for parents with Hondas, but it prevents the dilution for parents with Fords, Chevies, Hyundais, etc., and Honda parents can always remove the badges (UA spoofing).

    11. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by Tom · · Score: 2

      It's like the "Baby on Board" car signs

      No, it isn't. That sign communicates a statement with a measurable truth value - either there is or there isn't actually a baby in the car, so you are either saying the truth or you are lying.

      The DNT flag expresses a preference. The only person to judge its truth value is you. Basically, the car analogy equivalent would be a sticker saying "please don't drive too close".

      Now continue your thought experiment regarding what would happen if everyone put that sticker on their car.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    12. Re:Nobody's attacking privacy... by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 1

      Baby on board is nothing to do with usual driving. In an accident it is a prompt to look for small, easily missed children in the back.

  37. W3C by jbolden · · Score: 1

    Isn't this precisely the sort of argument W3C is for?

    1. Re:W3C by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      W3C is against DNT being on by default.

  38. New case of optin/optout email list argument by rlh100 · · Score: 1

    This is a really bad idea. If it gets adopted widely it will support the argument that DNT needs to be regulated and enforced by law.
    It is the old email optin/optout argument. You rarely see a site that does not have an explicit option to optin or optout check box when you register.
    A better patch would be to pop up a DNT dialog box allowing the customer to confirm tracking the first time they visit a site.
    And don't tell me this is hard to do. You are already tracking people. This is just another data point to track.

  39. Maybe using ie10 was my choice? by Culture20 · · Score: 2

    Perhaps the use of ie10 is my active choice, knowing that it has this privacy set by default. It's not, but consider the possibility.

    1. Re:Maybe using ie10 was my choice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Completely agree with that. See - I don't want slashdot to track my stuff, so I post as AC, therefore I know what I'm talking about.

      Posted using Microsoft ® Internet Explorer ® 10 with "Do Not Track" option enabled.

    2. Re:Maybe using ie10 was my choice? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but not likely. Any user savvy enough to understand the implications of DNT...is likely to be savvy enough to use Chrome or Firefox!

  40. No thank you, now FOAD please? by pla · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The alliance has revealed that it will only honor DNT if and only if it is not switched on by default.

    Dear Digital Advertising Alliance - No one* wants you to track them. MSIE enabling DNT by default means nothing more radical than defaulting US releases of Windows to use English.

    Since you have decided you know better than we do, I will therefore block all ads and tracking technologies until you make them "opt-in" only.

    And then I will opt out.


    * Morons who consider Facebook as somehow "better" than the worst of you marketing parasites aside.

  41. I like a me-centric Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only person who finds it kind of neat that they track what I like and advertise at me accordingly. I found out about a YELLE concert in my area because of a Facebook ad that cropped up after I viewed her newest music video. It was one of the best shows I've ever seen, and I wouldn't have heard about it without this "evil" tracking technology.

    1. Re:I like a me-centric Internet by asdf7890 · · Score: 2
      No, I know a few people who don't object at all.

      There are a few reason why some people object though, including but not limited to:
      1. * They just don't like being followed. In some circumstances in real life (walking through an iffy part of a town you don't know well, or making your way through lion country) being followed is not a good feeling, and our brains which aren't as much evolved as we sometimes like to think don't make the distinction between being tracked physically and being tracked virtually.
      2. * Some don't want certain browsing habits (porn being the main one) to be accidentally revealed to some of their circles (should they forget to engage incognito mode).
      3. * Having heard the stories over the years and dismissed them as "yeah, you mean porn" but I do now know someone who nearly had a surprise soiled by gmail filling his screen with engagement ring adverts while his now-fiencée was around (again, incognito mode would have helped here).
      4. * Back on the "being followed" feeling: this is happening in your own home, which makes it doubly odd if you are going to feel odd about it anyway.
      5. * Some wonder, "if Google/bing/facebook are profiling me, who else might be?" - someone who collates enough information about you might be able to use it for various less useful things and that risk might not be worth the utility of relevant adverts.
      6. * And my main objection: someone somewhere is making money off all this information in my profiles, and it isn't me nor am I getting any sort of cut!
    2. Re:I like a me-centric Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You get to use their services for free. That's a "cut" of a kind isn't it?"

    3. Re:I like a me-centric Internet by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I find it useful, but ideally I want to control who does that. I use a lot of Google services - including things like Latitude that go beyond tracking on the Internet - and so I want them to track me to establish context. So I do actually get something useful out of that. I wouldn't want another online ad agency to track me, though.

  42. Ghostery anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This will only further ignite the arms race, Microsoft will probably include tracker blocking technologies to enforce DNT in a patch for IE10

  43. Default or User-Set is Irrelevant by DERoss · · Score: 1

    No Web server can determine whether a do-not-track (DNT) setting was the inherent default or explicitly set by the end-user. Apache is specifically blocking recognition of DNT for Internet Explorer 10 only because they discovered that Microsoft made DNT the default.

    By the way, telemarketing is as important to commerce as are Web ads. But in the U.S., I can (and did) put my phone number in the government's do-not-call list. It is illegal for a telemarketer to call me. (Some still do. I report them to the Federal Trade Commission for enforcement.) How is do-not-call different from do-not-track? Apparently, they are not very different since a bill is in Congress to require Web sites to honor DNT, which (of course) will make Apache's patch illegal.

    1. Re:Default or User-Set is Irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The patch would also be illegal under the EU Privacy directive 2003 which mandates that everything must by law, be OPT IN.

    2. Re:Default or User-Set is Irrelevant by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      They can opt-in to a working DNP by using a different browser.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  44. And if the user really doesn't want to be tracked? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

    Fielding thinks his options should be "use another browser." Well fuck you Mr. Fielding. Thanks for coming up with a standard that you are going to cheerfully ignore while giving users the false impression that you are going to honor their wishes.

    Do we need and involuntary standard to get advertisers to behave? Because that's where this sort of shit may be leading.

    Or do you want a war with Microsoft? Maybe they'll patch IE to identify and disable Apache servers by default, or send them spoofed and anonymized information by default.

  45. Also install the NAI Keep My Opt-Outs plugin by caveat · · Score: 1
    --

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
    1. Re:Also install the NAI Keep My Opt-Outs plugin by TCM · · Score: 1

      Is this some perverted new-age sense of protection where you are basically pleading to the offender to not track you by giving him a cookie with identifying information?

      Informational self-awareness seems to be seriously lacking these days.

      --
      Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
  46. I thought there is always a default setting.. by hraponssi · · Score: 1

    If DNT is disabled by default it is a user choice (to disable it), if it is enabled by default it is not a user choice (to enable it)?

    How can you not have a default setting for this (or any configuration option)? And who is to tell which one is better? User has the ultimate choice in both cases to change it to what they please.

    1. Re:I thought there is always a default setting.. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You ask the first time the browser runs.

      Which is more or less what IE10 does, actually. The only catch is that you have to go "custom setup" to disable DNT, while "express setup" will enable it. It'll say that it will, too, but I doubt many people would read, and most would just click on "express" anyway.

  47. Just *advertise* by Requiem18th · · Score: 1

    Since when was it necessary to scoope into the most intimate corners of your mind to simply show you an ad? And why do you need to know my browsing history to register if I clicked an ad or viewed an a banner?

    This tracking issue has gone completely over the board. How difficult could it be to simply be an advertisement network? Why do they also have to become our very own big brother?

    --
    But... the future refused to change.
  48. If you want to play like that... by asdf7890 · · Score: 2

    I agree with DNT not being set by default. Make it an option on the default browser home page, then people can set it whenever they like, or just ignore it. Done.

    But to Apache: "we do not support breaking open standards" hold no water what so ever when your way to express your love for standards is to patch your product such that it can completely ignore a generally accepted standard by default. That to my mind is a text-book example of hypocrisy.

    And to the ad servers saying "if X then we'll just ignore DNT" I say fine: if you won't honour DNT I feel no guilt at all in completely blocking all your content. Thanks for playing. I only block ad networks that get on my nerves (auto playing sounds, overly irritating animations, malware riddled shite, and so forth), but this is on my list of things that get on my nerves.

    For what it is worth I don't think DNT will make any difference at all, as it relies on everyone to play ball server-side and I barely trust anyone with a commercial or other interest in tracking people to play ball in anything other than hollow words, but that is no reason to not be irritated when you hear people say "we know and understand your preferences, but fuck you".

  49. Better not ignore it by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

    They can choose to ignore DNT for whatever reasons they choose. However, I did deliberately set DNT in my browser. Any party choosing to ignore that setting will find me remarkably lacking in sympathy for them if they wind up tracking me contrary to that setting.

    1. Re:Better not ignore it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch out guy, we have a badass over here.

      He.. will... lack sympathy!

  50. It's time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to fork Apache

  51. Ok - EASILY "beat the game" then... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IF you don't want to be tracked, & to get your speed/bandwidth back you paid for (as well as electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O as well), better "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", reliability (vs. DNS poisoning redirection OR being "downed"), & even anonymity (to an extent vs. DNS request logs) + being able to "blow by" what you may feel are unjust blocks (in DNSBL's) & more...

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 5.0++ 32-bit & 64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74

    ---

    Custom hosts files gain me the following benefits (A short summary of where custom hosts files can be extremely useful):

    ---

    1.) Blocking out malware/malscripted sites

    2.) Blocking out Known sites-servers/hosts-domains that are known to serve up malware

    3.) Blocking out Bogus DNS servers malware makers use

    4.) Blocking out Botnet C&C servers

    5.) Blocking out Bogus adbanners that are full of malicious script content

    6.) Getting you back speed/bandwidth you paid for by blocking out adbanners + hardcoding in your favorite sites (faster than remote DNS server resolution)

    7.) Added reliability (vs. downed or misdirect/poisoned DNS servers).

    8.) Added "anonymity" (to an extent, vs. DNS request logs)

    9.) The ability to bypass DNSBL's (DNS block lists you may not agree with).

    10.) Blocking out TRACKERS

    11.) More screen "real estate" (since no more adbanners appear onscreen eating up CPU, Memory, & other forms of I/O too - bonus!)

    12.) Truly UNIVERSAL PROTECTION (since any OS, even on smartphones, usually has a BSD drived IP stack).

    13.) Faster & MORE EFFICIENT operation vs. browser plugins (which "layer on" ontop of Ring 3/RPL 3/usermode browsers - whereas the hosts file operates @ the Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode of operation (far faster) as a filter for the IP stack itself...)

    14.) Custom hosts files work on ANY & ALL webbound apps (browser plugins do not).

    15.) Custom hosts files offer a better, faster, more efficient way, & safer way to surf the web & are COMPLETELY controlled by the end-user of them.

    ---

    * There you go... & above all else IF you choose to try it for the enumerated list of benefits I extolled above?

    Enjoy the program!

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, THIS is NOT going to "go well" with 3 types of people out there online, profiting by advertising & more @ YOUR expense as the consumer:

    ---

    A.) Malware makers & the like (botnet masters, etc./et al)

    B.) ADVERTISERS - the TRULY offended ones, as it is their "lifeblood" in psychological attack galore, tracking, & more, etc.!

    C.) Possibly webmasters (who profit by ad banners, but fail to realize that those SAME adbanners suck away the users' bandwidth/speed, electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O they PAY FOR, plus, adbanners DO get infested with malicious code, & if anyone wants many "examples thereof" from the past near-decade now? Ask!)

    ---

    ... apk

    1. Re:Ok - EASILY "beat the game" then... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahhahhaaa! It's hostfileman, here to save the day!

  52. Let's clarify by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody seems to have got the point. It is simple enough:

    - DNT was negotiated on the basis that it would be neither on nor off by default
    - the advertising groups agreed to honor it based on that premise
    - MS broke the rule
    - now DNT is effectively dead

    Is that a little clearer?

    1. Re:Let's clarify by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, all new IE10 installations will come with ghostery code embedded within the browser to enforce that DNT is respected by blocking the trackers directly.

  53. Altavista had ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey retard, altavista had ads. So what was your point again?

    The first internet ad was in the 1980s.. an ad on prodigy for sears.

  54. What has Apache got to do with this? by recoiledsnake · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why is Apache doing this? Shouldn't it be up to the webmaster and developers whether to ignore IE10's DNT or not?

    Why is Apache doing user agent sniffing(a no no usually for even web apps) and overriding web applications by default? The patch doesn't even give a choice to the webmaster to configure Apache to disable this action. So it's being forced on Apache users because of the ego of the DNT spec writer? Lets say IIS turns on DNT for all browsers, how will Mr. Fielding feel then? Apache is being used as a pawn in this power game and this move will help no one. Let the advertisers ignore DNT from IE10 if they want to, why block DNT flag on at the web server level?

    --
    This space for rent.
    1. Re:What has Apache got to do with this? by HermMunster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is not Apache's territory. they should not be doing anything to affect my browsing session. Nothing at all. Period.

      And who the hell cares about the digital advertising alliance. They don't dictate anything having to do with advertising on my computers.

      What the hell is going on here? These people seem to be violating every tenant of privacy. This makes Apache an outlaw. It's ridiculous to say the least. They say they don't tolerate...., well we should never tolerate their interference.

      If you guys are supporting Apache because they are Apache you need to stop and reexamine your position. I don't use IE but all browser makers should be pampering the users not the advertising industry, and the web server manufacturer should never pamper advertisers.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    2. Re:What has Apache got to do with this? by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is not Apache's territory. they should not be doing anything to affect my browsing session. Nothing at all. Period.

      Apache isn't doing this. One person has posted a patch. It has not, as I understand it, yet been accepted by the Apache Foundation. Even if it were, Apache HTTPD is by design a highly configurable web server which has modules to do all sorts of things, but on any typical web server only a few of those modules will be enabled. This particular patch - even if it were accepted as part of the distribution - only works if both the 'setenvif' and 'headers' modules are enabled, which, on my servers, is not the case. Furthermore, the 'patch' is five lines in a configuration file; if you don't like 'em, comment them out.

      Slow news day, storm in a teacup, nothing to see here, move along.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    3. Re:What has Apache got to do with this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not a storm in a teacup - it is one individual claiming some moral superiority to nail an issue to his liking without any real discussion or consideration, other than him own. How is one to establish whether an Apache server has set this "ignore any browser DNT instruction" any more easily than a user browser's setting of DNT by default? The guy's an ego-driven asshole.

  55. Re:And if the user really doesn't want to be track by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Better yet, crash those servers. Yes, please, send crash inflicting information to those servers identified with the ignore do not track patch. Enough browsers crashing those servers can DDOS the entire domain.

  56. Spam did not kill Usenet by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

    Google did not kill Usenet; AOL killed Usenet in 1993, when they started sending millions of rude and uneducated users to Usenet without bothering to explain basic Usenet conventions or etiquette.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:Spam did not kill Usenet by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      Google did not kill Usenet; AOL killed Usenet in 1993, when they started sending millions of rude and uneducated users to Usenet without bothering to explain basic Usenet conventions or etiquette.

      AOL users were idiots but not bulk spammers and it was easy to filter them out, and the other ISPs weren't about to let AOL replace their own services. But they were happy to give it all to Google and so we were fucked.

      The fact remains that after Google Groups" appeared usenet was drowned in shit.

  57. How do IE10 users select DNT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Apache ignores DNT from IE10 users on the assumption that they didn't really select DNT, how do IE10 users make use of DNT? And, if IE10 users cannot make use of DNT, what's the point of DNT? IE10 will eventually be used by a significant portion of internet users. Making DNT useless to them will only hurt DNT.

  58. Re:MillionShort by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Dang, MillionShort is the best new idea in search I've seen in years. I'm going to go play with it soon.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  59. From Apache? Really? by gtirloni · · Score: 1

    Now I have to side with m$ on this one? Is it in preparation for the end of the world in December? What's going on?

    --
    none
  60. Additionally by shiftless · · Score: 1

    You can also have useful content without ads. A popular web forum can be run for $25/month and 8-10 hours/month as a hobby. I know because I did it for years. http://www.cadillacpower.com/forum . No ads. No spam. NO tracking or data mining. EVER.

  61. Users want to be tracked?? by philofaqs · · Score: 1

    Well if the users asked are the marketing department at google otherwise....

  62. conflict of interest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    While I'm sure he is impartial. they should have chosen someone else to write the patch.

    Roy works for Adobe, who owns Omniture. one of the major tracking companies out there.

  63. Tracked ads are anti-advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I search for video card reviews on Google it's pretty obvious what my intent is. I'm searching to find out performance metrics on a range of video cards. There's a reasonable chance I'm looking to purchase one.

    The thing is though, I already know what I'm looking for. I know I want to buy a video card. Why does ad-sense for random sites I visit need to shove video card ads from Newegg (I live in the US) relentlessly down my throat.

    I thought the point of advertising is to get your product out in the wild so people can find it. I'd much rather be shown the polar opposite of what my regular searches ask for. If I'm searching for various algorithm implementations in lisp, video games and computer parts chances are I don't need to be shown ads about them. Show me some ads for a dating site that I likely don't know about because chances are I need to find a girlfriend!

  64. good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that I haven't used apache in a server setup in a long time..its pretty much legacy to me at this point..what a douchebag move though.

  65. Roy Fielding and Adobe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't understand why Apache would not support DNT, it doesn't make any sense.

    However I do understand Roy Fielding works for Adobe creating Advertising software, that makes more sense to me.

  66. Microsoft played clever politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have online properties, they want personal data to sell. If this flag becomes mandatory (which is everyone switched it on, it would be an election plus to make no-track law), then that would be against their interests.

    So how do they defeat it, without looking like the bad guys?... They turn it on always.

    That way it will ALWAYS be ignored, because it's always true. QED, flag never becomes laws.

  67. Nobody? by phorm · · Score: 1

    I think it's more that nobody wants to be tracked all the time

    There are times when I mind tracking, and times I don't.
    If I were - for example - browsing "adult" sites, I'd probably not want to be tracked, particularly if said tracking manages to tie my browsing history between home and work, etc.

    On the other hand, if advertisers want to use tracking to determine that I like geeky stuff and am shopping for a new gaming rig, I'm not going to complain if they show me ads for CPU's that are on sale etc.

    I'm fairly sure guys that are sick of seeing ads for feminine hygeine products etc might be in for replacing their *existing* advertising with something for deals on beer, or superbowl tickets, or whatever happens to float their personalized boats.

  68. tenet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    violating every tenant of privacy

    tenet

  69. IE 11's answer :) by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Welcome to Internet Explorer 11 first time setup.

    Do you wish to have privacy or do you want to expose yourself to the mercy of advertisers?
    _yes, I want privacy
    _no, I want to be at the mercy of advertisers

    [user chooses "no"]

    [big red letters]
    ATTENTION, Internet Explorer 11 has detected an error during first-time user setup. First-time-user setup settings have been lost. Internet Explorer 11 will now restart.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  70. The "DNT" header is officially bullshit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought the header, when set to yes, means "DO NOT TRACK." Now... it doesn't... in a certain corner case? Okay, now what other exceptions are they going to come with next? As someone has mentioned in another post: What if a person chooses IE 10 due to its sane privacy-respecting default of having DNT set to ON? What if they fully know that, even if that's not why they choose to use IE 10, but they WANT it set to on anyway? Seriously--I knew this DNT bullshit was a crock of shit to begin with for reasons like this, but here's the proof that it won't fucking work. Dumb little corner cases like this, implemented so the advertising assholes don't get their panties in a bunch. What will the dickheads in advertising come up with next?

    The easy fix would be for Microsoft to "disable" DNT" by default, but the very first time a user runs the browser they will be greeted with a window explaining the DNT and the reasons to use it. And to get back at these morons, have the "Yes, enable DNT" option set to default for when the user clicks OK, which will effectively make it "default" while at the same time "user-selected" right from the first run of the browser.

    Anyone who complains that this shouldn't be done because it's still practically a default that everyone will click OK just to get past and start using the browser, I point you to the EULA. Apparently, that little checkbox beside "I agree" is doing quite well after all these years; very few people actually even waste the time to read the damn license, and just check it because they have to, to get what they want.

    Well, it looks like just another reason to choose LibreOffice over OpenOffice.org since Oracle bought it, nearly destroyed it, and gave it up to Apache. I can actually applaud Microsoft (for once) for a move they made to stand up for the privacy of their users, but Apache, fuck you.

  71. Well scr** Roy Fielding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The option is CHECKED on first startup. Users can UNCHECK it if they want.
    Stop assuming the users don't know what the checkbox does or doesn't do.
    God damn idiot.

  72. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

    1. Re:Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAHAHA, APK comparing himself to Gandhi.

      You are so sick, Peter, so sick.

  73. This is BETTER than AdBlock by FAR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IF you don't want to be tracked, & to get your speed/bandwidth back you paid for (as well as electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O as well), better "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", reliability (vs. DNS poisoning redirection OR being "downed"), & even anonymity (to an extent vs. DNS request logs) + being able to "blow by" what you may feel are unjust blocks (in DNSBL's) & more...

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 5.0++ 32-bit & 64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74 [start64.com]

    ---

    Custom hosts files gain me the following benefits (A short summary of where custom hosts files can be extremely useful):

    ---

    1.) Blocking out malware/malscripted sites

    2.) Blocking out Known sites-servers/hosts-domains that are known to serve up malware

    3.) Blocking out Bogus DNS servers malware makers use

    4.) Blocking out Botnet C&C servers

    5.) Blocking out Bogus adbanners that are full of malicious script content

    6.) Getting you back speed/bandwidth you paid for by blocking out adbanners + hardcoding in your favorite sites (faster than remote DNS server resolution)

    7.) Added reliability (vs. downed or misdirect/poisoned DNS servers).

    8.) Added "anonymity" (to an extent, vs. DNS request logs)

    9.) The ability to bypass DNSBL's (DNS block lists you may not agree with).

    10.) Blocking out TRACKERS

    11.) More screen "real estate" (since no more adbanners appear onscreen eating up CPU, Memory, & other forms of I/O too - bonus!)

    12.) Truly UNIVERSAL PROTECTION (since any OS, even on smartphones, usually has a BSD drived IP stack).

    13.) Faster & MORE EFFICIENT operation vs. browser plugins (which "layer on" ontop of Ring 3/RPL 3/usermode browsers - whereas the hosts file operates @ the Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode of operation (far faster) as a filter for the IP stack itself...)

    14.) Custom hosts files work on ANY & ALL webbound apps (browser plugins do not).

    15.) Custom hosts files offer a better, faster, more efficient way, & safer way to surf the web & are COMPLETELY controlled by the end-user of them.

    ---

    * There you go... & above all else IF you choose to try it for the enumerated list of benefits I extolled above?

    Enjoy the program!

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, THIS is NOT going to "go well" with 3 types of people out there online, profiting by advertising & nefarious exploits + more @ YOUR expense as the consumer:

    ---

    A.) Malware makers & the like (botnet masters, etc./et al)

    B.) ADVERTISERS - the TRULY offended ones, as it is their "lifeblood" in psychological attack galore, tracking, & more, etc.!

    C.) Possibly webmasters (who profit by ad banners, but fail to realize that those SAME adbanners suck away the users' bandwidth/speed, electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O they PAY FOR, plus, adbanners DO get infested with malicious code, & if anyone wants many "examples thereof" from the past near-decade now? Ask!)

    ---

    ... apk

  74. This is BETTER than AdBlock (by far) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IF you don't want to be tracked, & to get your speed/bandwidth back you paid for (as well as electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O as well), better "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", reliability (vs. DNS poisoning redirection OR being "downed"), & even anonymity (to an extent vs. DNS request logs) + being able to "blow by" what you may feel are unjust blocks (in DNSBL's) & more...

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 5.0++ 32-bit & 64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74 [start64.com]

    ---

    Custom hosts files gain me the following benefits (A short summary of where custom hosts files can be extremely useful):

    ---

    1.) Blocking out malware/malscripted sites

    2.) Blocking out Known sites-servers/hosts-domains that are known to serve up malware

    3.) Blocking out Bogus DNS servers malware makers use

    4.) Blocking out Botnet C&C servers

    5.) Blocking out Bogus adbanners that are full of malicious script content

    6.) Getting you back speed/bandwidth you paid for by blocking out adbanners + hardcoding in your favorite sites (faster than remote DNS server resolution)

    7.) Added reliability (vs. downed or misdirect/poisoned DNS servers).

    8.) Added "anonymity" (to an extent, vs. DNS request logs)

    9.) The ability to bypass DNSBL's (DNS block lists you may not agree with).

    10.) Blocking out TRACKERS

    11.) More screen "real estate" (since no more adbanners appear onscreen eating up CPU, Memory, & other forms of I/O too - bonus!)

    12.) Truly UNIVERSAL PROTECTION (since any OS, even on smartphones, usually has a BSD drived IP stack).

    13.) Faster & MORE EFFICIENT operation vs. browser plugins (which "layer on" ontop of Ring 3/RPL 3/usermode browsers - whereas the hosts file operates @ the Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode of operation (far faster) as a filter for the IP stack itself...)

    14.) Custom hosts files work on ANY & ALL webbound apps (browser plugins do not).

    15.) Custom hosts files offer a better, faster, more efficient way, & safer way to surf the web & are COMPLETELY controlled by the end-user of them.

    ---

    * There you go... & above all else IF you choose to try it for the enumerated list of benefits I extolled above?

    Enjoy the program!

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, THIS is NOT going to "go well" with 3 types of people out there online, profiting by advertising & nefarious exploits + more @ YOUR expense as the consumer:

    ---

    A.) Malware makers & the like (botnet masters, etc./et al)

    B.) ADVERTISERS - the TRULY offended ones, as it is their "lifeblood" in psychological attack galore, tracking, & more, etc.!

    C.) Possibly webmasters (who profit by ad banners, but fail to realize that those SAME adbanners suck away the users' bandwidth/speed, electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O they PAY FOR, plus, adbanners DO get infested with malicious code, & if anyone wants many "examples thereof" from the past near-decade now? Ask!)

    ---

    ... apk

  75. This is BETTER than AdBlock (by FAR)... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IF you don't want to be tracked, & to get your speed/bandwidth back you paid for (as well as electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O as well), better "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", reliability (vs. DNS poisoning redirection OR being "downed"), & even anonymity (to an extent vs. DNS request logs) + being able to "blow by" what you may feel are unjust blocks (in DNSBL's) & more...

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 5.0++ 32-bit & 64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74 [start64.com]

    ---

    Custom hosts files gain me the following benefits (A short summary of where custom hosts files can be extremely useful):

    ---

    1.) Blocking out malware/malscripted sites

    2.) Blocking out Known sites-servers/hosts-domains that are known to serve up malware

    3.) Blocking out Bogus DNS servers malware makers use

    4.) Blocking out Botnet C&C servers

    5.) Blocking out Bogus adbanners that are full of malicious script content

    6.) Getting you back speed/bandwidth you paid for by blocking out adbanners + hardcoding in your favorite sites (faster than remote DNS server resolution)

    7.) Added reliability (vs. downed or misdirect/poisoned DNS servers).

    8.) Added "anonymity" (to an extent, vs. DNS request logs)

    9.) The ability to bypass DNSBL's (DNS block lists you may not agree with).

    10.) Blocking out TRACKERS

    11.) More screen "real estate" (since no more adbanners appear onscreen eating up CPU, Memory, & other forms of I/O too - bonus!)

    12.) Truly UNIVERSAL PROTECTION (since any OS, even on smartphones, usually has a BSD drived IP stack).

    13.) Faster & MORE EFFICIENT operation vs. browser plugins (which "layer on" ontop of Ring 3/RPL 3/usermode browsers - whereas the hosts file operates @ the Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode of operation (far faster) as a filter for the IP stack itself...)

    14.) Custom hosts files work on ANY & ALL webbound apps (browser plugins do not).

    15.) Custom hosts files offer a better, faster, more efficient way, & safer way to surf the web & are COMPLETELY controlled by the end-user of them.

    ---

    * There you go... & above all else IF you choose to try it for the enumerated list of benefits I extolled above?

    Enjoy the program!

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, THIS is NOT going to "go well" with 3 types of people out there online, profiting by advertising & nefarious exploits + more @ YOUR expense as the consumer:

    ---

    A.) Malware makers & the like (botnet masters, etc./et al)

    B.) ADVERTISERS - the TRULY offended ones, as it is their "lifeblood" in psychological attack galore, tracking, & more, etc.!

    C.) Possibly webmasters (who profit by ad banners, but fail to realize that those SAME adbanners suck away the users' bandwidth/speed, electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O they PAY FOR, plus, adbanners DO get infested with malicious code, & if anyone wants many "examples thereof" from the past near-decade now? Ask!)

    ---

    ... apk

    1. Re:This is BETTER than AdBlock (by FAR)... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as it is their "lifeblood" in psychological attack galore, tracking, & more, etc.!

      Seriously? All of this AND more AND etc. on top of that? Do you have a newsletter?

  76. see by Tom · · Score: 1

    Along the same lines is the stance adopted by Digital Advertising Alliance. The alliance has revealed that it will only honor DNT if and only if it is not switched on by default.

    This is why we need laws and regulations. This was obvious the minute DNT was announced. I think I posted a few comments back then. Of course they will find excuses to not honour it. If it weren't this one, it would be something different.

    In an ideal world, they would be fined $1000 for every single time they ignore the flag, that would put them out of business within a week.

    Of course, in the real world we live in, such ridiculous fines are reserved for unemployed mothers downloading a few music tracks for their kids.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  77. ABP by Tom · · Score: 1

    So Adblock Plus it is, then.

    They had one chance to convince us that they aren't evil, greedy bastards and meet us in the middle, with us accepting reasonable ads that don't mess with us in ways we don't like.

    They fucked it up.

    So I'll feel even more justified in recommending Adblock Plus to absolutely everyone whose browser window I ever see.

    You didn't want to compromise, assholes, so for all I care, you can all go broke.
     

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  78. This is better than AdBlock by FAR... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IF you don't want to be tracked, & to get your speed/bandwidth back you paid for (as well as electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O as well), better "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", reliability (vs. DNS poisoning redirection OR being "downed"), & even anonymity (to an extent vs. DNS request logs) + being able to "blow by" what you may feel are unjust blocks (in DNSBL's) & more...

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 5.0++ 32-bit & 64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74 [start64.com]

    ---

    Custom hosts files gain me the following benefits (A short summary of where custom hosts files can be extremely useful):

    ---

    1.) Blocking out malware/malscripted sites

    2.) Blocking out Known sites-servers/hosts-domains that are known to serve up malware

    3.) Blocking out Bogus DNS servers malware makers use

    4.) Blocking out Botnet C&C servers

    5.) Blocking out Bogus adbanners that are full of malicious script content

    6.) Getting you back speed/bandwidth you paid for by blocking out adbanners + hardcoding in your favorite sites (faster than remote DNS server resolution)

    7.) Added reliability (vs. downed or misdirect/poisoned DNS servers).

    8.) Added "anonymity" (to an extent, vs. DNS request logs)

    9.) The ability to bypass DNSBL's (DNS block lists you may not agree with).

    10.) Blocking out TRACKERS

    11.) More screen "real estate" (since no more adbanners appear onscreen eating up CPU, Memory, & other forms of I/O too - bonus!)

    12.) Truly UNIVERSAL PROTECTION (since any OS, even on smartphones, usually has a BSD drived IP stack).

    13.) Faster & MORE EFFICIENT operation vs. browser plugins (which "layer on" ontop of Ring 3/RPL 3/usermode browsers - whereas the hosts file operates @ the Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode of operation (far faster) as a filter for the IP stack itself...)

    14.) Custom hosts files work on ANY & ALL webbound apps (browser plugins do not).

    15.) Custom hosts files offer a better, faster, more efficient way, & safer way to surf the web & are COMPLETELY controlled by the end-user of them.

    ---

    * There you go... & above all else IF you choose to try it for the enumerated list of benefits I extolled above?

    Enjoy the program!

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, THIS is NOT going to "go well" with 3 types of people out there online, profiting by advertising & nefarious exploits + more @ YOUR expense as the consumer:

    ---

    A.) Malware makers & the like (botnet masters, etc./et al)

    B.) ADVERTISERS - the TRULY offended ones, as it is their "lifeblood" in psychological attack galore, tracking, & more, etc.!

    C.) Possibly webmasters (who profit by ad banners, but fail to realize that those SAME adbanners suck away the users' bandwidth/speed, electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O they PAY FOR, plus, adbanners DO get infested with malicious code, & if anyone wants many "examples thereof" from the past near-decade now? Ask!)

    ---

    ... apk

    1. Re:This is BETTER than AdBlock by far... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck off, moron.

    2. Re:This is BETTER than AdBlock by far... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Morons use profanity-ridden doltish replies. Just like you.

    3. Re:This is BETTER than AdBlock by far... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only APK uses words like doltish.

    4. Re:This is BETTER than AdBlock by far... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The term applies to you troll: Disprove apk's points on hosts here http://apache.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3102597&cid=41280117 why don't you? Oh, we know why you "run, forrest, run" from them - you can't disprove truth! You failed again troll, as always. ROTFLMAO @ U troll coward.

    5. Re:This is BETTER than AdBlock by far... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://apache.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3102597&cid=41288967

      http://apache.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3102597&cid=41293573

      "run, forrest, run"

      Busted, Peter. Proof that you post as your own sock puppet. You are pathetic.

  79. This is BETTER than AdBlock by far... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IF you don't want to be tracked, & to get your speed/bandwidth back you paid for (as well as electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O as well), better "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", reliability (vs. DNS poisoning redirection OR being "downed"), & even anonymity (to an extent vs. DNS request logs) + being able to "blow by" what you may feel are unjust blocks (in DNSBL's) & more...

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 5.0++ 32-bit & 64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74

    ---

    Custom hosts files gain me the following benefits (A short summary of where custom hosts files can be extremely useful):

    ---

    1.) Blocking out malware/malscripted sites

    2.) Blocking out Known sites-servers/hosts-domains that are known to serve up malware

    3.) Blocking out Bogus DNS servers malware makers use

    4.) Blocking out Botnet C&C servers

    5.) Blocking out Bogus adbanners that are full of malicious script content

    6.) Getting you back speed/bandwidth you paid for by blocking out adbanners + hardcoding in your favorite sites (faster than remote DNS server resolution)

    7.) Added reliability (vs. downed or misdirect/poisoned DNS servers).

    8.) Added "anonymity" (to an extent, vs. DNS request logs)

    9.) The ability to bypass DNSBL's (DNS block lists you may not agree with).

    10.) Blocking out TRACKERS

    11.) More screen "real estate" (since no more adbanners appear onscreen eating up CPU, Memory, & other forms of I/O too - bonus!)

    12.) Truly UNIVERSAL PROTECTION (since any OS, even on smartphones, usually has a BSD drived IP stack).

    13.) Faster & MORE EFFICIENT operation vs. browser plugins (which "layer on" ontop of Ring 3/RPL 3/usermode browsers - whereas the hosts file operates @ the Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode of operation (far faster) as a filter for the IP stack itself...)

    14.) Custom hosts files work on ANY & ALL webbound apps (browser plugins do not).

    15.) Custom hosts files offer a better, faster, more efficient way, & safer way to surf the web & are COMPLETELY controlled by the end-user of them.

    ---

    * There you go... & above all else IF you choose to try it for the enumerated list of benefits I extolled above?

    Enjoy the program!

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, THIS is NOT going to "go well" with 3 types of people out there online, profiting by advertising & nefarious exploits + more @ YOUR expense as the consumer:

    ---

    A.) Malware makers & the like (botnet masters, etc./et al)

    B.) ADVERTISERS - the TRULY offended ones, as it is their "lifeblood" in psychological attack galore, tracking, & more, etc.!

    C.) Possibly webmasters (who profit by ad banners, but fail to realize that those SAME adbanners suck away the users' bandwidth/speed, electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O they PAY FOR, plus, adbanners DO get infested with malicious code, & if anyone wants many "examples thereof" from the past near-decade now? Ask!)

    ---

    ... apk

  80. This is BETTER than AdBlock by far... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IF you don't want to be tracked, & to get your speed/bandwidth back you paid for (as well as electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O as well), better "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", reliability (vs. DNS poisoning redirection OR being "downed"), & even anonymity (to an extent vs. DNS request logs) + being able to "blow by" what you may feel are unjust blocks (in DNSBL's) & more...

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 5.0++ 32-bit & 64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74

    ---

    Custom hosts files gain me the following benefits (A short summary of where custom hosts files can be extremely useful):

    ---

    1.) Blocking out malware/malscripted sites

    2.) Blocking out Known sites-servers/hosts-domains that are known to serve up malware

    3.) Blocking out Bogus DNS servers malware makers use

    4.) Blocking out Botnet C&C servers

    5.) Blocking out Bogus adbanners that are full of malicious script content

    6.) Getting you back speed/bandwidth you paid for by blocking out adbanners + hardcoding in your favorite sites (faster than remote DNS server resolution)

    7.) Added reliability (vs. downed or misdirect/poisoned DNS servers).

    8.) Added "anonymity" (to an extent, vs. DNS request logs)

    9.) The ability to bypass DNSBL's (DNS block lists you may not agree with).

    10.) Blocking out TRACKERS

    11.) More screen "real estate" (since no more adbanners appear onscreen eating up CPU, Memory, & other forms of I/O too - bonus!)

    12.) Truly UNIVERSAL PROTECTION (since any OS, even on smartphones, usually has a BSD drived IP stack).

    13.) Faster & MORE EFFICIENT operation vs. browser plugins (which "layer on" ontop of Ring 3/RPL 3/usermode browsers - whereas the hosts file operates @ the Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode of operation (far faster) as a filter for the IP stack itself...)

    14.) Custom hosts files work on ANY & ALL webbound apps (browser plugins do not).

    15.) Custom hosts files offer a better, faster, more efficient way, & safer way to surf the web & are COMPLETELY controlled by the end-user of them.

    ---

    * There you go... & above all else IF you choose to try it for the enumerated list of benefits I extolled above?

    Enjoy the program!

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, THIS is NOT going to "go well" with 3 types of people out there online, profiting by advertising & nefarious exploits + more @ YOUR expense as the consumer:

    ---

    A.) Malware makers & the like (botnet masters, etc./et al)

    B.) ADVERTISERS - the TRULY offended ones, as it is their "lifeblood" in psychological attack galore, tracking, & more, etc.!

    C.) Possibly webmasters (who profit by ad banners, but fail to realize that those SAME adbanners suck away the users' bandwidth/speed, electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O they PAY FOR, plus, adbanners DO get infested with malicious code, & if anyone wants many "examples thereof" from the past near-decade now? Ask!)

    ---

    ... apk

  81. baby on board? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always thought it's another one of those signs that make someone feel superior to their peers. I produced a baby, society feels I am more important than you, pay heed!

  82. This is BETTER than other "solutions" by far by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IF you don't want to be tracked, & to get your speed/bandwidth back you paid for (as well as electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O as well), better "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", reliability (vs. DNS poisoning redirection OR being "downed"), & even anonymity (to an extent vs. DNS request logs) + being able to "blow by" what you may feel are unjust blocks (in DNSBL's) & more...

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 5.0++ 32-bit & 64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74

    ---

    Custom hosts files gain me the following benefits (A short summary of where custom hosts files can be extremely useful):

    ---

    1.) Blocking out malware/malscripted sites

    2.) Blocking out Known sites-servers/hosts-domains that are known to serve up malware

    3.) Blocking out Bogus DNS servers malware makers use

    4.) Blocking out Botnet C&C servers

    5.) Blocking out Bogus adbanners that are full of malicious script content

    6.) Getting you back speed/bandwidth you paid for by blocking out adbanners + hardcoding in your favorite sites (faster than remote DNS server resolution)

    7.) Added reliability (vs. downed or misdirect/poisoned DNS servers).

    8.) Added "anonymity" (to an extent, vs. DNS request logs)

    9.) The ability to bypass DNSBL's (DNS block lists you may not agree with).

    10.) Blocking out TRACKERS

    11.) More screen "real estate" (since no more adbanners appear onscreen eating up CPU, Memory, & other forms of I/O too - bonus!)

    12.) Truly UNIVERSAL PROTECTION (since any OS, even on smartphones, usually has a BSD drived IP stack).

    13.) Faster & MORE EFFICIENT operation vs. browser plugins (which "layer on" ontop of Ring 3/RPL 3/usermode browsers - whereas the hosts file operates @ the Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode of operation (far faster) as a filter for the IP stack itself...)

    14.) Custom hosts files work on ANY & ALL webbound apps (browser plugins do not).

    15.) Custom hosts files offer a better, faster, more efficient way, & safer way to surf the web & are COMPLETELY controlled by the end-user of them.

    ---

    * There you go... & above all else IF you choose to try it for the enumerated list of benefits I extolled above?

    Enjoy the program!

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, THIS is NOT going to "go well" with 3 types of people out there online, profiting by advertising & nefarious exploits + more @ YOUR expense as the consumer:

    ---

    A.) Malware makers & the like (botnet masters, etc./et al)

    B.) ADVERTISERS - the TRULY offended ones, as it is their "lifeblood" in psychological attack galore, tracking, & more, etc.!

    C.) Possibly webmasters (who profit by ad banners, but fail to realize that those SAME adbanners suck away the users' bandwidth/speed, electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O they PAY FOR, plus, adbanners DO get infested with malicious code, & if anyone wants many "examples thereof" from the past near-decade now? Ask!)

    ---

    ... apk

  83. Free SW is being sold out to Corporations by lpq · · Score: 1

    For the same reason Gnu doesn't support user freedom -- and has decided that the Corporate POSIX standard will be enforced on all user systems. They've sold out -- been bought and paid for.

    You think "rm -fr ." would remove all files in the current dir, or "rm -fr foo/."
    would remove all files IN foo (but not foo). These are no longer options -- the "f" no longer overrides errors and continues.

    What's worse -- when removing recursively, rm has to remove the contents BEFORE trying to remove the current directory. So you'd still expect rm -fr . to remove all files under . then fail at the last on "." -- which you wouldn't see due to the "-f" flag. Nope.

    POSIX requires "." to be checked for out of order - first, and requires the force flag not to ignore this error.

    Result: rm can no longer remove all files under a directory w/o also removing the directory, by itself. You'll have to use the shell to type
    in wild cards and hope they expand the way you want on a target system. ( * includes .files except . & .. -- unless the user has turned that off.). A note in POSIX claimed they were protecting against accidentally typing in "rm -r *" -- which doesn't address the case of including the "-f" flag nor the easier mistake to type in which is just as
    disastrous "rm **" which will delete all files under the current point (but leave the empty directories!)... Completely nonsense -- yet GNU has been given over to mindless supporting the corporate POSIX standard.

    Free software is being sold off to corporations just like proprietary software. Only difference is the free software you can create your own patched copy for your own use -- but try distributing it as a new version to replace the old... fat chance.

  84. This is FAR BETTER than other "solutions"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IF you don't want to be tracked, & to get your speed/bandwidth back you paid for (as well as electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O as well), better "layered-security"/"defense-in-depth", reliability (vs. DNS poisoning redirection OR being "downed"), & even anonymity (to an extent vs. DNS request logs) + being able to "blow by" what you may feel are unjust blocks (in DNSBL's) & more...

    ---

    APK Hosts File Engine 5.0++ 32-bit & 64-bit:

    http://start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&catid=26:64bit-security-software&Itemid=74

    ---

    Custom hosts files gain me the following benefits (A short summary of where custom hosts files can be extremely useful):

    ---

    1.) Blocking out malware/malscripted sites

    2.) Blocking out Known sites-servers/hosts-domains that are known to serve up malware

    3.) Blocking out Bogus DNS servers malware makers use

    4.) Blocking out Botnet C&C servers

    5.) Blocking out Bogus adbanners that are full of malicious script content

    6.) Getting you back speed/bandwidth you paid for by blocking out adbanners + hardcoding in your favorite sites (faster than remote DNS server resolution)

    7.) Added reliability (vs. downed or misdirect/poisoned DNS servers).

    8.) Added "anonymity" (to an extent, vs. DNS request logs)

    9.) The ability to bypass DNSBL's (DNS block lists you may not agree with).

    10.) Blocking out TRACKERS

    11.) More screen "real estate" (since no more adbanners appear onscreen eating up CPU, Memory, & other forms of I/O too - bonus!)

    12.) Truly UNIVERSAL PROTECTION (since any OS, even on smartphones, usually has a BSD drived IP stack).

    13.) Faster & MORE EFFICIENT operation vs. browser plugins (which "layer on" ontop of Ring 3/RPL 3/usermode browsers - whereas the hosts file operates @ the Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode of operation (far faster) as a filter for the IP stack itself...)

    14.) Custom hosts files work on ANY & ALL webbound apps (browser plugins do not).

    15.) Custom hosts files offer a better, faster, more efficient way, & safer way to surf the web & are COMPLETELY controlled by the end-user of them.

    ---

    * There you go... & above all else IF you choose to try it for the enumerated list of benefits I extolled above?

    Enjoy the program!

    APK

    P.S.=> Of course, THIS is NOT going to "go well" with 3 types of people out there online, profiting by advertising & nefarious exploits + more @ YOUR expense as the consumer:

    ---

    A.) Malware makers & the like (botnet masters, etc./et al)

    B.) ADVERTISERS - the TRULY offended ones, as it is their "lifeblood" in psychological attack galore, tracking, & more, etc.!

    C.) Possibly webmasters (who profit by ad banners, but fail to realize that those SAME adbanners suck away the users' bandwidth/speed, electricity, CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O they PAY FOR, plus, adbanners DO get infested with malicious code, & if anyone wants many "examples thereof" from the past near-decade now? Ask!)

    ---

    ... apk

  85. DNT is Pointless, active blocking is a must. by Artemis3 · · Score: 1

    Obviously this will never be respected. Like ads, we have to take active measures such as using the ghostery add on to block all known tracking methods (there is still some server side fingerprinting involving your browser version/os etc).

    Nowdays you HAVE TO block this stuff; people often complain their browsing is slow, and then you discover the insane amount of traffic sent to third parties before content is even displayed in most sites. Of course using Chrome is suicidal, it belongs to a corporation who does both ads and tracking for business.

    Active blocking most always needs Noscript and the discipline to use it property. This is because they use scripts to bypass/detect blocking, so for firefox adblock/ghostery/noscript are usually all needed. Because cookies and referrer are also used sometimes, you might as well add cookie monster and RefControl. In short, you have to whitelist those "features" from trusted sites and only a few things from each trusted site in order to have a decent browsing experience again. Block by default and only allow what you need.

    This is done not for paranoia, but for bandwidth and latency reasons.

    --
    Artix
    Your Linux, your init.
  86. Use Adblock Lite, not Plus. by Artemis3 · · Score: 1

    Ad Block Lite, not Plus. Plus has an option to "allow unobtrusive ads" which is enabled by default...

    Also we are talking about tracking here, not just ads, so you will also need Ghostery as well. But because they will try to detect and disable your blocking, then you are forced to enter the world of Noscript, Cookie Monster and RefControl (or equivalent combo).

    The web is hostile, and for this we need to take active measures whitelisting only the few elements from the pages we trust.

    --
    Artix
    Your Linux, your init.
    1. Re:Use Adblock Lite, not Plus. by Tom · · Score: 1

      True about Ghostery, etc. - but we are the geeks, we are winning this fight. In the end, as long as I control the browser, I can find a way to kill your advertisement.

      On the downside, this is why product placement, etc. are becoming so pervasive.

      I read up on ABL, didn't know about it, thanks. Then I read http://adblockplus.org/de/acceptable-ads - and while I'm not a fan, I understand where they're coming from. I've unchecked that setting for me, and if they leave it alone on updates, I'm ok. It just might have at least the effect of teaching the ad guys to not be obnoxious.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  87. It's been pulled by willodotcom · · Score: 1

    The patch as been pulled: https://github.com/apache/httpd/pull/2

  88. Disprove his points on hosts files? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps you don't, since you can't?? http://apache.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3102597&cid=41274915 Seems all you have is being an off-topic troll (instead of disproving apk's claims in the link above). You're only proving his points on Gandhi's quote as well since you realize that evading disproving his points is the "fight you" stage, since at that point, it only makes the last part true, APK wins.

  89. Don't you have anything better to do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of being a troll, disprove his points on hosts files here http://apache.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3102597&cid=41279713 . Oh, that's right: You tried it before and failed, hence your anonymous coward trolling instead! Which only shows us you have failed miserably before vs. apk and probably mostly on trying to disprove apk's points on the benefits of custom hosts files, since no one ever does or can.

    1. Re:Don't you have anything better to do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone knows it's you, Peter.

      Speaking of yourself in the third person could be viewed as mentally ill, don't you know?

      Prove it's not you.

    2. Re:Don't you have anything better to do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wouldn't matter if it was apk since you ran from this http://apache.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3102597&cid=41287063 beyotch. You stalk apk around this forums like some geek angst ridden loon and you are forced to run like the wuss you are from a simple challenge of disproving apk's points on hosts files every time you do so. What a feeble loser you are.

  90. Personally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I find this to be a good thing M$ has done. All browsers should enable DNT by default, and any service or server that disables it or find a way around it, should be considered an illegal activity and open themselves to lawsuits.

  91. Prove I am APK. Disprove APK's points on hosts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't to either item in my subject. You're an off topic troll that's unable to disprove APK's points on hosts files here http://apache.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3102597&cid=41279713 and that makes you laughable. No wonder you troll others as anonymous coward. You're exactly that. I know it. You know it. Anybody reading knows it, lol.

  92. "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!", lmao... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://apache.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3102597&cid=41287063

    * Go on now ac troll that "stalks" me like some online sicko... disprove my points on the benefits of custom hosts files, enumerated in the link the link above points to, in 15 points for better:

    1.) Speed/Bandwidth
    2.) "Layered-Security"/"Defense-in-Depth"
    3.) Reliability
    4.) Anonymity
    5.) and more...

    (Face it, ac troll - You can't, and, you KNOW it... lol!)

    APK

    P.S.=> What's the matter, "wally"? Running scared from a SIMPLE CHALLENGE you can NEVER face up to, or overcome??

    (ROTFLMAO @ U, since "You FAIL", as-is-per-your "ac trolling usual"!)

    ---

    QUESTION: Just exactly HOW MANY TIMES have I utterly annihilated YOU on "things technical" in computing on this forums that you stalk me like some "mental-case" psycho, hmmm?

    ---

    LOL - I know you won't answer THAT, anymore than you are willing to "face the music" & a simple challenge in the URL link above (since I have OBVIOUSLY "toasted" you on that before)... See subject-line, it's "YOU", Forrest, lol...

    ... apkb

    1. Re:"Run, Forrest: RUN!!!", lmao... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      U mad?

  93. U run like a coward? Yes... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ROTFLMAO: "Rinse, Lather, & Repeat" -> http://apache.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3102597&cid=41288967

    * How a worm like you can live with yourself is beyond me... lol, and the way you avoided my question of WHY you stalk me on /., as well as how you run from disproving my points on hosts files? Utterly hilarious... I can make you "dance" easily, everytime, with the same approach to your stalking myself... lol!

    APK

    P.S.=> As to your question? LOL, not @ all - Most especially when all you have is your off-topic crap, and you ran away from disproving my points on custom hosts files' benefits to end users (which are MANY on many levels)...

    ... apk