Slashdot Mirror
EVE Online CSM and Diplomat Killed in Libyan Consulate Attacks
New submitter overmoderated writes first with news of an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Libya. From the article: "The U.S. ambassador to Libya and three other embassy staff were killed in a rocket attack on their car, a Libyan official said, as they were rushed from a consular building stormed by militants denouncing a U.S.-made film insulting the Prophet Mohammad."
An anonymous reader adds: "Sean Smith, a.k.a. Vile Rat, an EVE Online CSM member, and diplomat for the GoonFleet corporation, was one of the four killed in the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Libya last night. He was 34. A fundraiser is being organized for his children by the Something Awful forums."
Update: 09/12 21:28 GMT by U L : Ozma from Something Awful mailed in a link to the memorial thread on the SA forums (including details on the memorial fund).
'Nuff said.
rip vile rat.
To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
is here.
(how did story get posted w/o a link?)
coding is life
He might be known to a lot of geeks who play the game. Stop being an asshole.
If you think that Libya was "closer to a true democracy" under Gaddafi, you're outright insane.
Yeah, the islamists that came to replace him are worse. But it was no rose garden there before that, and human rights violations were routine.
So, an EVE Online CSM 'got what he deserved'... how exactly? You have some major rage issues against EVE? Read the article, Sean Smith was the EVE CSM... Chris Stevens was the ambassador. Even then, how would an AMBASSADOR at a consulate deserve to die over anything? Did he set policy? Did he do ANYTHING to these people? Again with a lack of reading... this was in response to a bunch of insecure religious extremists going, as quoted above, 'bat shit crazy' over a movie they didn't like regarding their reverred Prophet Mohammad. So, here's your reasoning in a nutshell. Because a Libyan Christian living in California made a movie supporting his belief that the Muslim faith is a dangerous cancer (his words), these men deserved to die. Hopefully these same folks never see any of these movies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_about_Muhammad Or we may just have WW3 on our hands....
So, I say from the bottom of my heart, fuck you, Sean Smith. You got what you deserved.
See? This is the problem with radicals; they believe innocent individuals need to suffer for the disagreements of others.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
He wasn't a diplomat he was a tech guy working in the consulate. I can understand the confusion, Sean Smith aka Vile Rat was a diplomat for the eve online alliance Goonswarm and a former member of the CSM.
He leaves behind two kids so presumably it would go towards them and any funeral costs.
He was a "diplomat" in EVE Online. In real life, he did IT work for the consulate -- he wasn't a diplomat nor any particularly wealthy, privileged person. He's just an ordinary guy doing IT work.
vile rat was a csm diplomat for eve online and one of the original goons. csm diplos fly to iceland to discuss game balance.
To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
...sounds like he was pretty involved in the game.
It also sounds like he was well-loved. Choice notes from the forum thread:
And probably my favorite:
Supercar Gautier:
coding is life
Nope I was acquainted with Vile Rat, in Eve. This isn't a troll it is genuine.
"they believe innocent individuals need to suffer "
Often, radicals believe there are no innocents.
They feel that either you must be as militant as they are, or you're just a tool/ally of those they feel are opposing/oppressing them.
In the former case, you're a fighter for their cause and thus a martyr if killed.
In the latter case, you are a part of the problem that needs to be disposed of.
Obligatory Streisand Effect link to the video that they are acting against: Innocence of Muslims
And, for bonus points, here's an emoticon depiction of The Prophet Mohammed: 0-<-<
Come get me.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
First it was Afghanistan. You thought that everyone fighting against authoritarian Soviets was automatically pro-democracy and pro-human rights; and what's wrong if they speak of Islam and jihad occasionally? Clearly it's only against the bad guys. And so you gave them money and guns and trained them, and the end result was a country where most schools (build by those very Soviets) were demolished and replaced by madrassas, and secular if authoritarian government replaced by fanatics who were stoning women on football stadiums for adultery after they were raped.
(Oh, and don't say that you didn't support Taliban. This guy was no better, and most of his troops ended up in Taliban anyway.)
And what do you get for it in the end? A whole country turned into a giant terrorist training camp that's now working against you, and using those very weapons that you've supplied them to kill your soldiers, and workers that you send to try to rebuild the country. The training camp that produced those people who committed the biggest terrorist act ever in the history of this planet, against the USA.
Then there was Kosovo. Again, "freedom fighters" against a totalitarian regime and all that. Again, a decade afterwards it's slowly growing to be another place where Wahhabism spreads, only this time in the middle of Europe (and also a major drug transit center to boot, to finance the operation). And, again, the chickens are coming home to roost.
Now there's Libya. It's only been a year since the downfall of the regime - thanks largely to heavy NATO military backing of the rebel "freedom fighters" - and we've already seen genocide of the black population, widespread persecuting of Christians, and now this act of outright hostility towards USA and the murder of its citizens and representatives. You can go on at length about how the real, democratically elected government of Libya is liberal and all about human rights and such, but what this incident clearly shows is that they're not a government. They're simply not in control of the country. And people that are in control, because they have guns (that you gave them) and troops and determination - people like this - hate democracy and human rights with a passion, and hate you because you are representative of that. And you can't even say that they haven't warned you if you were only willing to see and listen...
But, hey, that's still not quite enough jihadis, right? Let's create another breeding ground for them in Syria as well?
nah that wasn't his last chat transcript. That was just an example that was pretty common to hear from him when he was in Iraq . His lats words on jabber were "FUCK" and "GUNFIRE" and then he disappeared off Jabber.
If you think that Libya was "closer to a true democracy" under Gaddafi, you're outright insane.
Even the most sham-elected de facto dictatorship on the planet blows the doors off any theocracy ever, when it comes to "closer to a true democracy".
At some point, the people can appeal to a (human) tyrant, and he might respond to their concerns.
Whether or not it exists, god never responds.
We need to get out of the Middle East/North Africa, until the savages either settle their differences or kill each other off. Screw this "democracy" crap, we've now plunged three "questionable" but relatively secular democracies into borderline (or even outright) sharia over the past decade. We need to quit while only that far behind.
that psycho pastor had involvement in what ended in this situation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Jones_(pastor)
I hope this guy knows he has blood on his hands now, as batshit crazy as *he* is, he is now partially at fault. I knew he'd do something to incite violence overseas ever since his ridiculous quaran burning.
Yes building castles in foreign countries sends entirely the right message. It is certain to dispel the belief that the US is an occupation power.
Germany: Peaceful nation.
Japan: Peaceful nation.
Yes in fact it did work. We just have to make sure we don't half ass it.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It touches something everyone who plays online games wonders about.
How deep is that connection with your friends you know only in a virtual way? Does their impact on the virtual world you played in matter in any sense? Is changing a game world that 300 000 people play in and enjoy a real accomplishment? If he coaches little league or his kids football people would talk about that, even though it impacts a lot less people and is not all that important in the grand scheme of things. Hundreds of thousands of people have been touched, in a small way, by this guy, he was part of their little special society.
It's also strange, how our relationships with friends are changing. My friends who I play online with at least, are more likely to remember the far too many hours we spent trying to kill the first entrance trash in molten core, on the first night there were 40 people on our server who could even get in than some event where people went bar crawling and didn't quite make it home. We raided molten core, other people broke into an abandoned cement factory.
I'm 32, 4 years ago a friend of mine from public school passed away due to brain cancer. I had known him for 23 or 24 years in total (from junior kindergarten until he passed away). We did lots of stuff as kids, riding around parks on a bike, trying to meet girls, failing miserably with girls, we sat around his house and played games, we went to universities, fell in a river at a yearly university party etc. That stuff, when people gave speeches about it at his funeral is something everyone could relate to and laugh about. Including that time we accidentally set fire to our old school, his father sold school equipment and after graduation he was working for his dad and someone botched an installation... Know one really knew (or was inclined to talk about) how he'd spent the last couple of years of his life trying to help organize a guild in a video game. He couldn't be around people IRL a lot of the time due to treatments, but he could log on and help organize 40 or 50 people to get their shit together and have fun. I guess that's important, insofar as having fun is important. But it's not something people in their 40's and 50's and older can really understand or relate to generally.
Eve particularly makes this a story because it's a single world. Whatever my deceased friend accomplished was confined to one server of a cluster of servers of hundreds of thousands or millions of people all doing the same thing, in their own little instances walking past each other. But in Eve, one person can change the world for everyone, good or bad.
Notice how there's no story about the other 3 people who were killed, 2 other staffers and the ambassador. The ambassador is getting lots of coverage on the MSM. That was his 'clique' so to speak, and that will be his mark on the world is as an ambassador trying to manage US business. This was an IT guy, who played games with his friends. There's nothing wrong with that, but how we think about peoples contribution to the world is changing, this poor guy has the unfortunate distinction of getting a lot of press for it, but he's certainly not the first.
When George Lucas or Hironobu Sakaguchi, or Sid Meier pass away people on the outside of their properties (Star Wars/Indiana Jones, Final fantasy, Civilization) will understand them as the creators of those things, even if they never played the games or watched the movies. Game worlds are different, because the people who created the rules of the world, and the people who make the world aren't the same. This guy made part of the world that was created by the people at CCP, and that 300k other people play in. I don't think society has quite figured out how, if at all, it wants to try and recognize that.
Bullshit! No one has responsibility for this except the religious fanatics that did it and their own leaders. And as long as these radical idiots keep this kind of thing up only more people will be willing to speak out against them.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
i truly cannot even parse this. A person should be responsible for using "mean spirited" words ? When the deaths were caused on the other end of the world by people who probably never saw the video? The responders could have opted to shout mean spirited words back, or even make their own movie, or go and live their lives in a way that proves the movie-maker wrong. Instead it is decided that murder of random employees of a country whose laws allow people to use "mean spirited" words is a proper response. This proves the movie maker correct more than anything. Things stopped becoming conjecture or slander, and just became pointing out facts real quickly. The movie is obviously an excuse to take action, and this action would have happened anyhow. This wasnt random or authentic rage, or organic in any way. Some of the masses may have been whipped into a frenzy, and been told about this film, but none of the attack makes sense this way... it occured on a very important day, in multiple countries.
As soon as criticism should be punished for the actions of those being criticized is as soon as I start to fight the war. Speech is speech, murder is murder.
So what your saying is that the next time someone insults Christianity such as putting a crucifix in jar of urine (Piss Christ) or anything else of that nature, they should bring about the Crusaders again and kill in the name of God!?
You've got the order of that entirely incorrect. What I believe jvillain is saying is that, "if insulting Christianity was known to motivate a large number of Christians to violence and murder, then anyone purposefully insulting Christianity should also be held responsible for resulting criminal activity."
Antagonizing an individual does not necessarily make one blameless for the resulting violence committed against you. There's the famous case of Buzz Aldrin punching conspiracy theorist Bart Sibrel. Mr. Sibrel tried to get Mr. Aldrin arrested for assault, but the action was denied because it was plainly obvious that Mr. Sibrel had instigated the confrontation. A punch to the face and murder are on entirely different levels, so the comparison isn't be exact, of course.
While "they need a thicker skin" make be a relatively valid opinion, I think "don't be an asshole" is far and away more important.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
Goonswarm Alliance is a superpower in eve. It's long been a mystery how such a collection of mismatched personalities manages to stay so perfectly organised. Now we know: They had a professionally trained diplomat.
The attackers had organization, a plan, and even RPGs, this wasn't guys angry at the video, it was guys using the video protests as cover for their own preplanned attack on the embassy.
I read the internet for the articles.
Well said. I wish I had some mod points for this.
As a gamer I find that the celebrities I care about, the ones who entertain me and impact my life, are decidedly different then those most of the rest of the world care about. Imagine if it had been a Hollywood celebrity that was killed in the raid, rather then an internet one? There would be nothing else on the news. But when someone who is well known on some (geekish) corner of the internet dies, even people on a geek site question whether the news is meaningful.
The movie was merely the pretext. The reason for the riot and for killing the Americans was to celebrate the 911 attack on the World Trade Centers.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Why is parent marked troll?
That's humanity for you ...
FTFY
No amount of verbal or written instigation justifies murder.
Furthermore, no amount of verbal or written instigation should make you accountable for the actions of others. You can't force people to do things with words, ultimately it is their choice alone if they will do it or not and they alone should answer for the consequences.
The military assault against the US Consulate in Benghazi should not be seen as part of a protest against a low budget film which was insulting Islam â" there were just a few peaceful protesters present at the event. Indeed, there have been no other demonstrations regarding this film in Libya.
We at Quilliam believe the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi was a well planned terrorist attack that would have occurred regardless of the demonstration, to serve another purpose. According to information obtained by Quilliam from foreign sources and from within Benghazi we have reason to believe that the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi came to avenge the death of Abu Yaya al-Libi, al-Qaedaâ(TM)s second in command killed a few months ago.
The reasons for this are as follows:
The weak security environment in Libya including in Benghazi and the failure of the government to project its power outside of the capital have been used as a cover for the attack.
The failure to rebuild the defence and security sector, in an accountable, professional and responsible manner will only further the likelihood of such attacks in the future. Attacks in Benghazi are not new â" the Red Cross has been attacked multiple times in previous months, as have the US consulate and also the UK Ambassador, and such security lapses encourage attacks. The International Community must take the challenge of not allowing extremist elements to hijack the Arab Uprisings very seriously, by renewing their focus on civic and governance responses to check the efforts of Islamist extremists attempting to exploit the inevitable security vacuum.
Noman Benotman, President of Quilliam says:
âoeThese are acts committed by uncontrollable jihadist groups. We hope Libya will seize this opportunity to revive its policy of Disarmament, Demobilisation and Re-integration (DDR) in order to facilitate an end to the spread of such attacks, with the help of the International Community. We hope that the International Community, including NATO member states and especially the US, will continue their excellent work in Libya which began with the overthrow of the dictator Gaddafi after 42 years in power.â
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
They just have different excuses for it.
Unfortunately their new government hasn't done enough to collect all the heavy weapons out there.
What can they do, really? If you don't have more guns (and people) than the other guy, then the only thing you can do is politely ask. Of course he'll refuse - after all, so long as he has his guns, he also has the same power as you, at least on his own turf. Then what?
No amount of verbal or written instigation justifies murder.
Of course not, but that doesn't mean you can act as if cause and effect no longer apply and the results are not predictable.
Furthermore, no amount of verbal or written instigation should make you accountable for the actions of others.
Maybe in a court of law. But you should always hold yourself accountable for the completely expected consequences of your actions, even if certain steps in the chain of causality involve other sentient beings.
For example:
You walk into a bar and tell an ex-marine you know has a drinking problem and rage issues that dogs are fucking scum and you wish more of them were dying from IEDs.
Do your actions justify the savage beating you will receive? No, of course not.
Do your actions explain the savage beating? Are you responsible for doing something so stupid that you had to have known would result in that beating? Yeah. I mean if you smashed your face into a wall the resulting pain is obviously your fault. So just because this person has free will and might have gone against everything you knew about them and not hit you, you're free from blame? I don't think so.
But I also don't think blame is a zero-sum game, and a person is completely responsible for their own actions. That marine I made up should seriously get some counseling when they get out of jail.
The enemies of Democracy are
Christian did riot and attack people due to the "last temptation of christ" , look back in the news from 88-89. Cocktail molotov were thrown at a cinema in France, and 14 people wounded. Granted it is not as bad as a RPG into a car, but the fact is that there are fundemmentalist everywhere, and in that country a lot ofn military hardware is floating around. I am not excusing the act of those nutcase, but jsut like I did not condemn the WHOLE christianity when tehy killed doctor, shown "god hate fags" sign, or thrown molotov cocktail onto cinema, I think one should not condemn the whole islam either.
That said the fundemmentalist silamist can rot.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
"You can say anything you want about Jesus and no Christian will kill you."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_(film)#Attack_on_Saint_Michel_theater.2C_Paris
nobody was killed but it was not for trying.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I went to youtube and watched the whole movie trailor, which is not a feat for the faint of heart. This movie if viewed in it's entirety not only easily displaces Battlefield Earth it also bumps up The Profit on my personal list of worst movies. Anyone taking blood thinners should avoid this movie and it's trailer because it will make your eyes bleed.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
The insinuation being that he would want to stop the cycle?
Hearsay confirmation, state intelligence have been (unofficially, internally) confirming that the attacks were not caused by the same people who were protesting the film, and that bringing the weapons and inciting violence were a crime of opportunity by a known foreign militant group who tried to attack them before.
Not just US consul staff were killed, but so were as many protesters and Libyan guards who worked at the Consulate.
Ah, here's the SECSTATE: http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/12/world/africa/libya-attack-jihadists/index.html
Hey lets put this in perspective, remember all the people that were murdered by Christian extremists when Mel Gibson made that Passion of the Christ film? And lets not forget all those that died when the Last Temptation of Christ was released. Don't forget those murdered in the name of Christ when Andrew Loyd Webber released Jesus Christ Superstars and certainly have a moment of peace for those murdered every time South Park, Family Guy, The Simpsons, and Comic Artists featured Jesus. I mean don't you remember the "Dogma" massacres as a result of of that film? When Penny Arcade featured Jesus as Metal don't you remember the number of attempts on their lives?
It's a religion of peace people, lets keep this in perspective. Don't let a small, vocal, organized, group of extremists pain a picture of a religion is evil. I am certain those responsible will be arrested by their fellow Muslims and prosecuted for murder by their fellow Muslims.
Now the question you have to ask, "am I being sarcastic, or playing this comment straight?"
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
Agreed. This is just one of those many threads that bring out all the folks that'll start quoting that Godless piece of bigotry that is www.thereligionofpeace.com, and get modded up by others who insist on believing that all 1.4 BILLION Muslims around the world are terrorists, which makes about as much sense as equating all Protestants with the Klan. I'll probably get modded down just for posting this, but I really don't care...that sort of crap makes me ashamed to be an American.
It's blowback. From assets used to achieve para-political military aims, then discarded by the would-be puppet masters.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."