Ubuntu NVIDIA Graphics Driver: Windows Competitive, But Only With KDE

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Ubuntu NVIDIA Graphics Driver: Windows Competitive, But Only With KDE

Posted by timothy on Thursday September 13, 2012 @05:07AM from the layers-to-work-through dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The NVIDIA Linux driver across multiple GeForce graphics cards can compete with Microsoft Windows 7 on Ubuntu, but only when using the KDE desktop and not the default Unity/Compiz. It turns out based upon recent desktop environment benchmarking, Ubuntu's Unity desktop is now noticeably slower than GNOME/KDE/Xfce/LXDE with multiple GPUs/drivers. Sam Spilsbury of Canonical/Compiz acknowledges the problem but it may take longer than one Ubuntu cycle to correct."

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Remember that thread from the other day... by sootman · 2012-09-13 05:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

... about problems with Linux on the desktop? Yeah. Here you go.
(I'm not saying it's Linux's fault, but it is undeniably a problem with Linux. If some guy drives into you while you're stopped at a red light, the result is still that you have a broken car.)

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1. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:16 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I've said for a while now that desktop Linux's biggest problem is that the de facto primary consumer distro doesn't use KDE by default.
2. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by BMOC · 2012-09-13 05:17 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The average desktop user is disappointed when they only get 347 FPS instead of 422 FPS on their 1080P 3D-accelerated desktop? This is news to me.
  
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3. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Hatta · 2012-09-13 05:24 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  This is a problem with Ubuntu on the desktop, not Linux. Install Debian and whatever window manager you want and you have a perfectly useable Linux desktop.
  
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4. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by davester666 · 2012-09-13 05:29 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  For small values of "useable"
  
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5. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by lister+king+of+smeg · 2012-09-13 05:47 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  ubuntu is fine one you rip out unity. Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu with mate desktop, all work great just because unity and gnome are a flaming pile doesn't make the rest bad. apt-get purge unity && apt-get install anything-else(except gnome3) problem solved.
  
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6. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:53 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  We're talking Linux here not Windows 8. Try to keep up.
7. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by X0563511 · 2012-09-13 05:57 · Score: 0
  
  You can't quantify "usable" in that way. Sorry, thanks for playing.
  
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8. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by silviuc · 2012-09-13 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  The above is flambait. What stops somebody running ubuntu from switching DE? Unity bad? Fine, there is KDE, XFCE, LXDE and various even lighter options like running just a featured window manager.
9. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by lordofthechia · 2012-09-13 06:45 · Score: 1
  
  A user may get upset that their $200 Video card performs no better than a $150 video card because of inefficiencies in the OS WM.
  Also the performance difference should scale with more demanding games. So with a new enough game the user may be looking at 25 fps vs the 30fps they should be getting OR 50fps vs 60 fps, both of which are noticeable differences.
  
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10. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by horza · 2012-09-13 06:45 · Score: 2
  
  Or you can use Unity for day to day use, then switch to Kubuntu/Xubuntu when you want optimum GPU performance across multiple nvidia cards. KDE could be the alternative to Win32 for gaming.
  Phillip.
  
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  Property for sale in Nice, France
11. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by hairyfeet · 2012-09-13 06:48 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  No one is gonna call the article a troll or shill for pointing out a serious problem? I'm shocked! In the end the problem with Linux is NOT the UIs, or any of the pretty on top, in fact in many ways they have surpassed Windows and OSX in those areas.
  Nope, the same damned problem that plagued Linux 10 years ago STILL plagues it to this very day, and it all comes down to drivers and kernel devs constantly futzing with low level internals with nary a thought to QA, QC, or backwards compatibility. Whether anyone likes it or not SOME backwards compatibility IS required, because most software companies and ODMs aren't gonna pay a team of devs to constantly rebuild their products because some kernel dev got an itch.
  For proof I direct you to this page of over 100 show stopping bugs which just FYI but every. single. bug. has links showing that yes this IS a problem and its not just one person's opinion or experience and damned near every. single. problem. on that list can be traced by to devs fucking with internals and breaking shit. Now compare that page to the same page from 3 years ago and see how much has NOT been fixed in over 3 years.
  All the DE wars, Gnome 2 VS Gnome Shell and KDE 3 VS KDE 4? That's all turd polishing because if the guts are constantly breaking nobody will care about the pretty and as long as the devs are given carte blanche to fiddle with anything without a thought about what its doing to the stability of the overall ecosystem things just won't get better.
  That is why I had such high hopes for Ubuntu, I had hope that Shuttleworth would do like Google did with Android and just fork the thing away from the devs so that real stability and central management could be brought to bare instead of the cat herding we have now, but it was not to be.
  Linux has beautiful UIs, and tons of software, but retailers like myself won't ever touch your product if we install it on a system and 6 months later its broken its own drivers because some dev got a bee in his butt to futz with some low level system files and trashed my customer's WiFi or sound...ohh God sound, WTF were they thinking with Pulse?
  
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12. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:58 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  I remember when I studied physics (years and years ago), that the human eye can only perceive about 60 cycles per second, so anything "flickering" or "rendering" faster than 60 times per second appears to be continuous. 120 times per second is overkill, twice over. 420 times per second is overkill 4 times over. This is like a pissing contest between audiophiles where one's speakers can emit frequencies at 220,000 Hertz, while anothers can reach frequencies of 350,000 Hertz. It doesn't matter that you can' hear anything over 22050 Hertz, (Nyquist sampling in the worst case gets sliced in half, so 44100 cycles per second sampling is the upper practical limit). And here we are comparing un-seeable graphics. Oh, and I can pee 10 inches further than you!
13. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by CodeheadUK · 2012-09-13 07:07 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  > I remember when I studied physics (years and years ago), that the human eye can only perceive about 60 cycles per second.
  Wouldn't that be biology?
  The point stands though. 60fps is as fast as you need to go for smooth animation. However, if a scene can only be rendered at 60 fps, adding more complexity, bad guysm, explosions, etc could push the render time over the VSYNC delay period. That's a bad thing, as you drop not to 59fps, but to 30fps, which is very noticeable.
  Crazy FPS speeds aren't always an e-penis waving contest, it simply means you have plenty of GPU horsepower left in reserve for more complexity or more bad guys on screen without dropping below that VSYNC interval.
14. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Sir_Sri · 2012-09-13 07:10 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  In the L4D2 natively on linux comments pointed out the basic problem with this assertion.
  Functions have some overhead and efficiency. A function that has a minimum execution of 4ms will effectively cap your FPS at 250, some other API might have a minimum execution of 2ms, which caps at 500. But at the 60FPS range they can both be the same, or the performance could reverse, the 4ms function could scale much better than the 2ms function for example. Also, because no one really thinks too seriously about FPS in the range of 150+ a lot of weird shit can happen that won't effect normal use.
  That said, you're right, who wants to have to buy a 50 or 100 dollar more expensive video card for the same performance? New games especially try and push the limits of the hardware, and you're just not going to get 300 FPS on Guild Wars 2, Borderlands 2 or Call of Duty 2 or with lots of details turned on using affordable hardware today. L4D2 is basically based on a 4 year old engine that aims to be fast on mid range machines. But getting 15 fps or even a steady 40 or 50 FPS with 15 in the marginal cases of major effects on screen can really hurt the experience. Obviously the next generation of consoles is going to raise the bar a step further.
15. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by mcgrew · 2012-09-13 07:20 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Not even Ubuntu, but its desktops. TFS says KDE is faster than Windows, which seems right to me -- I'm running W7 on a year old notebook and kubuntu on an ancient tower, and the tower (with a much slower processor and less memory) is faster than the notebook. The tower is running kubuntu.
  
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16. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anne+Thwacks · 2012-09-13 07:20 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  You may be able to use Unity. I have yet to find anyone else that can. I have installed it for about 12 users now, and none of them was able to use it for more than 10 minutes*.
  All are perfectly happy with Gnome-shell (I am not, but that is different story).
  *The essential problem is that hierarchical text menu structures work. Unrecognisable icons are completely unintelligeable and non-intuitive. Things like the Ubuntu Software Centre take huge amounts of screen space - making it very difficult to find anything - worse (horrifically worse) this particular evil beast has masses of animated crap at the top, needlessly eating your bandwidth and processing power.
  
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17. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Grishnakh · 2012-09-13 07:35 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  This is exactly right. So many people are bitching about Unity and Gnome3, all this would be moot if they'd just dump that crap and make KDE the default desktop, and different distros customize the many configuration options in it to their liking. KDE can be made to look and act very different with the config options and themes (and of course users can use that as a starting point and make further tweaks easily in "System Settings"). People who want something lighterweight can use XFCE or whatever, so that can be offered as an alternative to KDE in some distros.
  Why all the distros are so in love with Gnome, I have no idea.
18. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Galestar · 2012-09-13 07:35 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Say what you want about it, call me a shill, whatever. I actually like Unity.
  
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19. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Punto · 2012-09-13 07:44 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Yeah but this is still relevant to that other thread. Somebody at canonical decided it was a good idea to take over the GPU and RAM with their useless "unity" interface because that's their "vision for the future" and they have to force it on everyone. This is the problem that Linus and the rest of the kernel people are pointing out.
  
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20. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by jedidiah · 2012-09-13 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  > Also the performance difference should scale with more demanding games. ...which have squat to do with the Window Manager.
  This is angels dancing on the head of a pin.
  If my BD decodes aren't impacted and my games get good FPS numbers and my apps aren't any more sluggish then I don't care.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
21. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Type44Q · 2012-09-13 07:49 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  ubuntu is fine one you rip out unity. Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu with mate desktop, all work great just because unity and gnome are a flaming pile doesn't make the rest bad. apt-get purge unity && apt-get install anything-else(except gnome3) problem solved.
  user@gateway ~ $ apt-get install anything-else
  E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
  E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
  user@gateway ~ $
  ???! :(
22. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by synthespian · 2012-09-13 07:56 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  This is exactly right. So many people are bitching about Unity and Gnome3, all this would be moot if they'd just dump that crap and make KDE the default desktop
  Right on! The sad truth is, many problems in the Linux arena are created by the community itself.
  One would hope Ubuntu to be the distro that unites the community (Shuttleworth - it must be said - has a vision) but they turned around and made a dumb choice, with a subpar GUI choice that went wrong in two different ways: 1) failed attempt to emulated Humanized's Enso modal interface; 2) failed attempt at "simple is better" with a horrible looking piece-of-shit no modern Windows 7 or Mac user would see the point in even going near the thing (hey, what's up with those horrible OpenOffice icons?). That stupid Unity interface is what you get when you take CSS web developers and let them design a desktop GUI...
  KDE is competitive. KDE has usability studies.
  This insistence on Gnome is insane.
  KDE is written in C++ this is a competitive advantage (compared to Gnome). That Gnome-based stuff is out-of-date is demonstrated by the article.
  Linux developers: are you gonna loose the C++11 bandwagon, too? If you do, you are dumb beyond belief...
  
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23. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by horza · 2012-09-13 08:07 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not sure what users you have that cannot use Unity, it's not really harder to use than an Android phone. It is also simple for those abandoning OS X, apparently it's quite similar, whereas KDE is more for Microsoft Windows refugees. There is a difference between not liking the look of Unity or not being able to customise it as much as desired (aesthetics), not being able to use it in in a way that is familiar (productivity), and not being able to use it because it is difficult to work out how to do things (learning curve). I'm not sure the new beta Software Centre is a particularly convincing argument against Unity as how often do you actually ever use it?
  Unity is so simple to use I can see it replacing a lot of people's home desktops. KDE is so familiar I can see it replacing office desktops, saving companies a fortune.
  Phillip.
  
  --
  Property for sale in Nice, France
24. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by SoftwareArtist · 2012-09-13 08:20 · Score: 2
  
  I really like Unity, especially in 12.04. It's a very clean, well organized UI.
  Just another data point for you, since you seem to be collecting them.
  
  --
  "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
25. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Grishnakh · 2012-09-13 08:21 · Score: 2
  
  It seems to me the problem isn't necessarily the community as much as it is the distro maintainers. Of course, the community make the distros popular or not through their choices.
26. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by couchslug · 2012-09-13 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Or just shitcan Unity. It's easy:
  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed
  
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27. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by couchslug · 2012-09-13 08:37 · Score: 2
  
  "ubuntu is fine one you rip out unity."
  We would be having fewer discussions of Unity Suckage if we spread the word how easy it is to be rid of it.
  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed
  
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28. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Patch86 · 2012-09-13 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  I use it regularly on my netbook, and I like it well enough for that. I still resort to XFCE on my desktop (via Xubuntu), but in the small screen environment Unity is perfectly usable. I've even grown to like one or two of its features.
  It was pretty damned unusable in its first release, but that's not the case any more. If you find the current version "unusable" then you're far too sensitive.
29. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  No, actually it comes down to companies not giving linux a thought except as something in a server room. It has only been recently that companies, especially graphic card companies have started to take notice of linux and it's community as something that they need to start working on improving their products for with any Ernest. It wasn't long ago that most dial up modems were "win"modems and not usable or barely usable on linux. Now that's not much of an issue. Sound cards and getting them working is no longer much of an issue. Perhaps some are, but it's not even close to what it used to be so that's pretty solid. The biggest holdback now, which is finally starting to gain some progress is in the video/graphics system area.
  Now that the graphics companies are paying more attention to linux (perhaps from the overwhelming popularity of android? and the fact that some of those companies own chipsets are used in those (some) android phones and tablets) we might start seeing more and more games working natively on linux. This is already starting to be evident by large gaming companies like valve who has Steam, prob the largest cloud/online/gaming platform in the world talking smack about windows and wanting to see a push into linux.
  People can argue about games being the main snag for the linux desktop to be pushed into the mainstream for the average user as much as they want, but from personal experience as well as asking friends and others in similiar situations it's always the same thing holding them back from switching entirely to linux and never touching windows again... games. First they tell you.. "well you can dual boot if you need to play a game!" which ends up over time just having you stay in windows since switching back and forth is a pain in the ass if you are a gamer, basically meaning playing games whenever you have free time... that's a lot of rebooting. Then they tell you that "WINE" is the solution to all of your gaming problems. Truthfully it has indeed come a LONG way from it's beginnings but WINE usually only works perfectly on old games and or the most popular that people are demanding support for. And as nice as WINE is it is still far from perfect and can't play all games or even the ones it can play are not all bug free. Linux in my mind has succeeded in becoming mainstream (average users desktop) when you can go to the store.. bestbuy or whatever and get the newest game releases for pc and install and play them on linux with no issues other than what,perhaps a windows user may have... , but other than that it should be easy native installers no having to use the command line to install a small book worth of archaic scripts and programs and libraries you have no idea wtf they are... you should just hit install ..... and then "play".
  then it can be the year of the linux desktop or whatever people like to always say.
30. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by shellbeach · 2012-09-13 08:55 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Sorry, but another vote for Unity here, FWIW, and I used to be a huge Unity nay-sayer (I even switched to linux mint for half a year out of protest) until I actually tried it and was pleasantly surprised. I find it's an excellent power-user interface with an emphasis on the minimal, and that suits me just fine -- any interface that provides more vertical screen realestate gets my vote. The dash panel works great for me, too -- I find typing much faster than hierarchical GUI menus, and Unity makes it possible to do everything via the keyboard if you want.
  I should add that I've only used the incarnation of Unity present in 12.04 -- it's quite possible it wasn't always as polished as it is now. But personally, now, I would hate to switch back to any other interface. I've used a hell of a lot of WMs and DEs over the years, and Unity's very much my favourite so far.
31. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 09:00 · Score: 0
  
  Biology is based on chemistry, which is applied physics.
32. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by shellbeach · 2012-09-13 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  I haven't seen any huge RAM usage from Unity on my system -- the various processes are barely using 20-30Mb right now.
  As for my GPU, I'm not a gamer and I'm quite happy to see my GPU used for something occasionally, thanks all the same. But, you know, if you don't like Ubuntu, don't use it. Linux wouldn't be linux if there was only one way to do things, you know ...
33. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-13 09:34 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Unfortunately, stock KDE has all that "semantic desktop" bullshit. What's needed is for someone to take it and make it the default, but tuned it right. Kinda like what Mint does with Gnome3 (though the necessary changes would be much smaller here).
34. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-13 09:37 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Once you rip out the stock DE, what's the advantage of Ubuntu over Debian and a dozen other distros? It's no longer just right out of the box, and the amount of knowledge you need to replace the DE is about equivalent to what you need to install Debian with your DE of choice...
35. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 09:37 · Score: 0
  
  You guys are all morons. I know I'll get marked as a troll for this, but Steve Fucking Ballmer had it right in his monkey dance. The reason Linux isn't more successful in the marketplace of OSes is... DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS.
  See how Linux is doing in the mobile space? It's because they have engaged and, more importantly, found a way to ATTRACT developers. No developer in his right mind gives two shits about KDE/Gnome, MS Office, or any other desktop candy. They want an ecosystem where they can make a living and have a hope for a steady paycheque from doing what they love.
  Set up a business model that fulfills that for developers and Linux will take off.
36. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Sheik+Yerbouti · 2012-09-13 09:40 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Actually it's quite noticeable in real world use. I just tried out Ubuntu 12.0.4 on a 12 inch netbook Asus 1201N with Nvidia ION graphics. It was all but unusable with Unity and had been running Windows 7 fine. I put Xubunutu on and it is much better. They quite simply and thoroughly screwed the pooch with Unity. It's pretty bad and this insistence that the Unity bar not be moved is insane when you can move the taskbar in Windows and the dock in OS X . It's a design choice that is antithetical to the community that Canonical is a part of. I mean Mark Shuttleworth appears to have a Job's complex and the whole idea of open source is freedom not restriction. It's just sad really.
37. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 09:41 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Now that is funny, a Debian fanboy telling someone -else- to keep up. I'm sure the packages in stable are probably older than you are.
38. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by X0563511 · 2012-09-13 09:50 · Score: 1
  
  You can't quantify "usable" period. You can't assign a number to it.
  You can qualify it, but that's not what was done in your snarky comment.
  
  --
  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
39. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by BMOC · 2012-09-13 09:52 · Score: 1
  
  I'm really out of the loop w.r.t. unity. I haven't used Ubuntu in a while. It's been so easy to get other versions of linux up and running the way I want that Ubuntu has lost it's luster with me. Frankly it feels restrictive. The last few installs I did were arch-linux, which is as basic as basic can get when you initially install. But if you ever need to customize it, there's lots and lots and lots of wiki pages to tell you exactly how.
  
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40. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 10:11 · Score: 0
  
  Oh god. I am not sure if you meant "loose" or "lose." If they "loose" the bandwagon, they presumably are going to be part of the stampeding c++11 forces; they would be sanctioning the stampede. If they "lose" the bandwagon, presumably they'll get lost in the dust as the c++11 forces go off into the sunset. Which one is it?
41. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Analog+Penguin · 2012-09-13 10:21 · Score: 2
  
  Well, were you root?
42. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 10:48 · Score: 0
  
  This is a total misunderstanding. Android (not mobile Linux) is successful because manufacturers don't have to pay for the OS.
  And desktop Linux is unsucessful because most of the apps are free as in beer?
43. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 11:26 · Score: 0
  
  Or some of us can't use it even if we wanted to. I have no idea what Unity is like (although not a fan of what has been described), as it crashes my video drivers. Xubuntu and everything else graphics related has worked without a hitch.
44. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Type44Q · 2012-09-13 11:42 · Score: 1
  
  Well, were you root?
  Who the hell are you calling a root, buddy??
45. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Abreu · 2012-09-13 11:43 · Score: 0
  
  Biology is based on chemistry, which is applied physics.
  physics is just applied math
  
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  No sig for the moment.
46. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Abreu · 2012-09-13 11:46 · Score: 1
  
  I find Unity very easy to work with. It was bad in the first release or so, but not anymore.
  
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  No sig for the moment.
47. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by jotaass · 2012-09-13 11:47 · Score: 1
  
  Biology is based on chemistry, which is applied physics.
  Which is applied mathematics. There's an xkcd reference somewhere in there.
48. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 11:48 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Android manufacturers DO have to pay for the OS. They pay to Microsoft for several patents. Android, and by extension, Linux, are successful in the mobile space because there is a proven, simple, and reliable way to enter the market-place for the average developer and to get paid for their work. It's hard enough to develop software, but developing successful new business models is no trivial task.
  Desktop Linux is unsuccessful because most developers are not attracted to the platform.
  How do Apple and Microsoft attract developers? By providing (mostly) stable, reliable, and easy to use platforms for developers to create their own BUSINESSES, not just software. These enticements are not just limited to software like the Win32 API, .NET, Objective-C, C#, driver testing and signing, OEM integration, and other software frameworks and solutions. It also includes operational infrastructure like databases, management software, published de-facto 'standards' (but standards none the less), 'the cloud', etc.
  In other words, they recognise that their primary customer is the developer and they take great pains to help developers make money from the platform that they try to sell to their secondary customer, the user. They create a market where developers can make money, and they in turn make money, too.
  Do you see anyone at all in the desktop Linux space trying to approach things from this perspective? I don't. Canonical? Nope. Debian? Nope. Suse? Nope. ArchLinux? Nope. RedHat? Nope. Not a single one of the major desktop Linux vendors has managed to do this. They are all concerned with providing a computing platform for the user and have all bowed down at the altar of Open Source in prayer, hoping that this magical property of their software will somehow spontaneously suffice for their own business to be successful. Don't get me wrong, I love Open Source, GNU, GPL, MIT licenses, whatever. Great stuff. But those don't in and of themselves attract the developers that will create an active and vibrant eco-system for the desktop.
  What do you think Microsoft mean when they harp their "ecosystem" idea? Why do you think they're sitting on a chest of patents they claim are violated in the Linux kernel, but have not sued anyone... except mobile vendors who have created a business ecosystem that is modeled after (and compete with) their own? Vendors who create platforms that attracts developers?
  Microsoft and Apple laugh at and ignore desktop Linux because there is no one in the market worth competing against. And there's no one in the market because no one is engaging developers in any meaningful way to work on desktop Linux.
49. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by OneAhead · 2012-09-13 12:14 · Score: 1
  
  KDE is written in C++ this is a competitive advantage (compared to Gnome). That Gnome-based stuff is out-of-date is demonstrated by the article.
  Talking about dumb, this must be one of the dumbest statements I read on /. this week. Not to mention that it's factually incorrect; none of the articles linked in the summary corroborate "that Gnome-based stuff is out-of-date". C'mon mods, Score: 5, really?
50. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by PrimaryConsult · 2012-09-13 12:23 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Disclaimer: I love Debian and I believe it is the best OS money can't buy (with RHEL being the best distro money can buy but that is another topic)... for servers it is fantastic, for desktops it is excellent for building exactly what you want with absolutely no bloat. The support you can find online is consistently the best available.
  *However* I cannot agree that replacing a DE is equivalent to installing Debian with your DE of choice. I find a Debian install is 95% finished when the installer completes, but that 5% can feel completely insurmountable to a Linux newcomer. These issues have included:
  -Bootloader problems. Nightmare to figure out if you have never manually dealt with a bootloader. A 2 minute fix if you have. Never seem to have this issue with Ubuntu.
  -Network (wired and wireless) problems, primarily caused by the insistence of non-free not being installed as part of the installer... having to USB over network drivers is a huge turnoff and leads to people ignoring this. Then when the closest equivalent "free" driver is used, you end up with things like a wireless that doesn't scan, or a wired NIC that randomly drops to 600 kilobit speed or cuts out entirely... Ubuntu just makes it happen.
  -Graphics issues. If I really wanted to run with what only free or outdated drivers can provide, I would install it in a VM under my Windows 7 partition. Having to use scripts some random guy made to properly suppress the dated repo packages and get the latest and greatest NVidia drivers is not ideal. Ubuntu generally keeps graphics drivers up to date in the packages.
  -Codec issues... Ubuntu IIRC it was just some checkboxes for "Good, Bad & Ugly", in Debian I had to resort to adding a 3rd party repository debian-multimedia (now deb-multimedia) just to get multithreaded Mplayer...
  -Printer installation. This is a "too much choice" problem, you can go with HP's stuff or plain ol' cups, both will work but there's no clear choice presented. I don't remember what Ubuntu's was but it was one of those "ah my printer's already here" moments.
  -Purposely making things confusing. One word: iceweasel.
  I do love Debian but installing should be left for power users... after that 5% extra polishing anyone can use it, but that really is the difference between Debian and Ubuntu.
51. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by humanrev · 2012-09-13 12:26 · Score: 1
  
  Do you have synaptic open by any chance? Are updates being downloaded/installed?
  Yes I know, whoosh. :)
  
  --
  Most people on Slashdot are fucking idiots.
52. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by ericcc65 · 2012-09-13 12:31 · Score: 1
  
  I've said for a while now that desktop Linux's biggest problem is that the de facto primary consumer distro doesn't use KDE by default.
  You mean KDE 3 right?
53. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 12:55 · Score: 0
  
  Liking unity is like liking apple. They are both niche markets. However, apple is shinier so it will appeal to a larger niche, while ubuntu has really bad artwork so the market is smaller.
54. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 13:16 · Score: 0
  
  what's needed is GNOME 2
  It's _still_ the best DE
55. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by symbolset · 2012-09-13 14:05 · Score: 2
  
  I see a lot of people enumerating absolute problems with Linux which should be cured and I would agree that there are many Linux distributions which are less advantageous than others and could be improved in some way. I've never found one that is just perfect to suit me and I don't expect to ever unless I take the time out to make my own distro. Frankly I'm not quite happy with anything I find in IT and I could improve each one if I had 20 man-years to do it. Many distros now available are quite fine with a bit of tweaking for most things, though for a robust server I would still go with BSD.
  For the desktop I've managed to find a Linux distro more acceptable to me than the mainstream alternatives for over fifteen years. Initially this was about Freedom, later about hardware compatibility, and more lately about security and reliability.
  To me the desktop metaphor is dying now. I do far more and spend far more time on my Android phone and tablet than I do on a traditional desktop PC or laptop.
  Now to get topical. Since this is a Cathedral and Bazaar story again, and assuming you've all done your homework, I can put a premise that answers the question. The reason why Linux desktops aren't taking off is that they're not a Cathedral, and they're not a Bazaar. Linux desktops are a redundant array of beowulf clusters of heterogeneous computing paradigms, each uniquely adapted to its environment. You can't sell that. Just as Windows Phone and Windows 8 are staking out the dusty, little travelled middle ground between the Cathedral and the Bazaar, Desktop Linux platforms are attempting to become the Oort cloud beyond the periphery of their scope. It's cold and lonely out there, but quite roomy.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
56. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 14:44 · Score: 0
  
  Why do you think they're sitting on a chest of patents they claim are violated in the Linux kernel, but have not sued anyone...
  Because it's all a lie?
57. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by deek · 2012-09-13 14:45 · Score: 1
  
  I agree with you about your main point of Debian + chosen DE != Ubuntu, but I'm not so sure about some of the points you raised on Debian issues. I've dealt with dozens of different Debian installs, both server and desktop/workstation, and have not encountered some of the issues you list.
  * Bootloader problems. I've never had bootloader problems with Debian. It's always just worked for me. It even auto-detects windows partitions and adds an entry into the grub menu for it.
  * Network non-free components. Never had an issue with a wired interface. Wireless, though, may require some manual intervention to install the non-free firmware needed. So that part will make it harder for basic users.
  * Graphics issues. Yep, needs some manual work if you want to run the latest Nvidia drivers. For heaven's sake, do NOT install the drivers using some script made by a random guy. Add the testing or unstable repositories to your apt-get config, and pin your system to the stable repository (or easier still, just install Debian testing). You can then install the latest and greatest Nvidia driver via official debian packages. I'm using the testing package myself, and it's perfectly fine. It's already been through unstable, so I'm assured that there aren't any "game-breaking" bugs in it. Debian testing is as stable as other distribution's full releases, except that Debian updates more often.
  * Codec issues. Yep, not friendly to basic users. Can't be helped, though. Debian has always said that it is dedicated to completely free software. It was never going to include encumbered codecs in the main system. Not even in the non-free section. I dispute that the deb-multimedia repo is a "resort". It's an excellent source for these missing codecs
  * Printer installation. Yep, good point. Ubuntu handles printer installations better. Actually, I just did a quick search, and there is a package that promises automatic printer installation for Debian. It's called system-config-printer-udev . I've never used it, so can't comment on how effective it is.
  * Iceweasel. Actually, I really like this name, especially when you know the story behind it. Believe me, it's not done to confuse. There is a reason, and it is good.
  So anyway, we do agree that Debian is a power user, or enthusiast, OS. More so, it's an OS for people who believe in the free software philosophy. Some of the issues you mention are due to that philosophy. It's not a bad thing, really.
58. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 14:45 · Score: 0
  
  Well, I said it before KDE4, but I've continued saying it. Now that KDE has its act together again and Ubuntu is using Unity, it's truer than ever.
59. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by hairyfeet · 2012-09-13 15:03 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Sorry AC but gaming is a red herring. As much as we PC gamers like to think different its a VERY small niche. Oh its a niche that spends a LOT of money, billions in fact, but the same can be said of yacht racing or Ferrari manufacture and nobody would claim either of those is mainstream.
  No the problem is that for every gamer (who just FYI doesn't have any problems with Windows so isn't a good market to target anyway) there are easily 10,000 like my GF who uses ONLY the Internet. When she gets on the PC I built her she doesn't use a single thing other than the browser and media player, that's it. Everything else is email and FB and Yahoo and 40 other websites she goes to often...so why doesn't Linux work for her?
  Simple because as that list I provided soundly demonstrates even if something works in distro foo when foo+1 comes out there is a VERY good chance one of the low level internals will be futzed with by some dev who had an itch and it'll be broken. Before anybody screams "But it works on servers!" I would point out that 1.-Servers rarely even have DEs, they don't care about sound or WiFi, they aren't using browsers, there is simply less surface area for the devs to attack and 2.-They are all controlled by highly trained well educated server admins who get paid the big bucks to deal with breakage, nobody is gonna hand out free server admins with each desktop sold.
  Until someone can fork the ENTIRE SYSTEM away from the devs, who have made it clear from Torvalds down that they WILL NOT STOP FUTZING no matter how much headaches it causes then it simply won't get better.
  I have said many times I am ready to issue a pepsi challenge to those that believe in Linux, none will take me up on it. We'll take ANY regular distro, not LTS because we have seen that stands for "don't backport shit", that was released the same quarter as Vista, the most hated and supposedly "buggy" MSFT OS. Pick Ubuntu, PCLOS, frankly I don't care which one you pick I'll still win the challenge. We will then install it beside Vista on identical boxes, hell we'll make it a dual boot if you are worried about ANY deviation in the chips, we'll make sure both systems have 100% working drivers (which I'll allow you to CLI all you want on this part, since you are the builder not the user at this point) and then we'll simulate what will happen to the user by upgrading both to current.
  I know I will win this challenge because I've done it before and have seen what happens. The Vista system? Runs perfectly, ALL the drivers and software that was running on LTS WILL be running after the last patch, the Linux system? BROKEN, HORRIBLY BROKEN. Sound will be wasted, the WiFi will be gone, hell you'll be lucky if the GPU drivers are working at all, and I don't care which chip you pick because the devs fuck Intel as bad as they do AMD and Nvidia so it'll still be fucked, it'll all fall down like a house of cards.
  So if you want to know what it'll take to have a "year of the Linux desktop" it is this: When I can take ANY release from 3 versions ago and upgrade to current and have a 100% functional system? Then and ONLY then will it be ready. But I've tried over a dozen distros so far and not one, not the rolling releases like arch nor the traditional releases like PCLOS and Ubuntu have passed the mustard, not one.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
60. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 15:27 · Score: 1
  
  Is it me, or does it seem odd to call the company with the largest market cap ever in history a "niche"?
61. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by cykros · 2012-09-13 15:44 · Score: 1
  
  https://xkcd.com/435/
  And physics is to sex as math is to masturbation.
62. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by equex · 2012-09-13 15:49 · Score: 1
  
  I assume your laptop had 7200 rpm drives so this comparison doesn't suck?
  
  --
  Can I light a sig ?
63. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 16:54 · Score: 0
  
  "failed attempt at "simple is better" with a horrible looking piece-of-shit " AKA shuttleworth must think that only commoners user a desktop these days and he's trying to make desktop computing *feel* like a fucking smartphone...
64. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by M1FCJ · 2012-09-13 19:29 · Score: 1
  
  Offtopic bit: Oww, posting to cancel a stupid moderation mistake. Chromium + cursor keys + Slashdot instant moderation is something I hate. I'm happy scrolling up and down but accidentally if I pick a moderation and then click on down arrow... Pants.
  Ontopic bit: You have a point. That's why we have different distributions. While Fedora/RHEL spinoffs are in small numbers, Debian spinoffs have really taken off in the last 5 years. There are so many different spins of Ubuntu, it's trivial to install one, if not happy, do a big apt-get install and get all of the goodies by default.
  On the other hand, there are a lot of things Canonical do completely wrong, I wouldn't know where to start with.
65. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by olau · 2012-09-13 20:33 · Score: 1
  
  Hey, would you please stop posting that list over and over again?
  Most of the stuff on that list is obsolete or clearly the opinion of someone who likes to futz. For instance, the sound link is to Slashdot (of all places) to a 2009 article, while sound works fine out of the box on a default install of any contemporary distro - as long as you don't futz with it.
  Or "KMS exclusively grabs video output and disallows VESA graphics modes (thus it's impossible to switch different versions of graphics drivers on the fly)" - really, this is major problem hindering Linux on the desktop?
66. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by olau · 2012-09-13 20:35 · Score: 1
  
  This is actually also what makes GNOME 3 nice to use. Need a terminal? Hit Windows key, type "term" + enter (or Ctrl+enter to start a new). Job done.
67. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by timbo234 · 2012-09-13 20:46 · Score: 1
  
  +1 I really don't understand all the effort going into resurrecting GNOME2 and fighting GNOME3 and Unity when KDE is right there, with tons of features and works today.
  
  --
  Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
68. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by aaaaaaargh! · 2012-09-13 20:55 · Score: 1
  
  ...and people like me who actually use Linux for daily work have replied that there is no problem.
69. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 20:57 · Score: 0
  
  [ ] you are aware that GObject is actually better than the C++ object system. It has signals, before and after methods, interfaces, interoperability with other languages (the ones you actually write applications in), callbacks, actual closures, properties, change notification, reflection (!), ...
  C++11 bandwagon? More like too little too late. Everyone moved away, there's nothing to see here.
70. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by aaaaaaargh! · 2012-09-13 21:01 · Score: 1
  
  My girlfriend seems to like Unity. But to be honest, her only interest in a Desktop is "Where is the browser?" and "How do I listen to my mp3s?"
71. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-13 22:55 · Score: 1
  
  For proof I direct you to this page of over 100 show stopping bugs which
  
  I was taking you seriously, but very quickly turned off when I started reading the first section, about video drivers - Which apparently is important enough to be first place, so should be good enough to judge the rest of the list.
  Coming up with issues like framebuffer drivers being an issue with proprietary drivers when proprietary drivers offer their own framebuffer systems to begin with.
  Or even how GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc with Mesa is meant to be a big issue.
  Like anyone using a decent Linux desktop installation would even make use of Mesa (software rendering instead of GPU). This makes me feel that this whole list was just a bunch of scare mongering on your part, trying to spread FUD among less knowledgeable users in the matter. The opensource and proprietary drivers provided in xorg for nVidia, Intel and AMD (and probably others, but I haven't checked) chipsets have full support for GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc - If you're relying on software rendering, you've got bigger issues than s3tc.
  I get the feeling the issues with driver arguments that users experience were also from using hardware not made by Linux OEMs like System 76. It's really no different from people complaining stuff doesn't work right on Windows 7 when the hardware was provided by the OEM with drivers and such for Windows Vista only.
  
  No unified API for H.264 AVC/Microsoft VC acceleration. VDPAU is only supported on NVIDIA GPUs. Intel's VAAPI is still immature and it's not yet merged and accepted (by mplayer/ffmpeg/xine/etc.)
  
  You mean how it's called "GL_NV_vdpau_interop" because it's not been formalized in an OpenGL specification yet? If AMD, Intel do end up supporting it without even reaching the specification, guess what the major non-unified code difference will be...
  GL_AMD_vdpau_interop
  GL_INTEL_vdpau_interop
  And this is obscured behind a libvdpau library which has fall backs for non-support, so userland applications don't even need to be aware of it. I also wasn't aware that applications had to adopt a new technology the moment it's introduced.
  Really, these arguments hold little weight with me.
  
  Linux has beautiful UIs, and tons of software, but retailers like myself won't ever touch your product if we install it on a system and 6 months later its broken its own drivers because some dev got a bee in his butt to futz with some low level system files and trashed my customer's WiFi or sound...ohh God sound, WTF were they thinking with Pulse?
  I can't recall instances in the corporate environment where this happened with SuSE and Lenovo hardware it came with, nor can I recall consumer instances where this happened with Ubuntu and System76. What Linux OEMs and distro are you referring to in your examples?
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
72. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-13 23:01 · Score: 1
  
  I'm one of those oddities or weirdos who actually get better performance under Linux with games. This includes some that I run under crossover games.
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
73. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by dunkelfalke · 2012-09-13 23:04 · Score: 1
  
  It is you. Market cap does not mean much. For example, Nortel's market cap in 2002 was just 1.3% of their market cap in 2000.
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
74. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by captainpanic · 2012-09-14 00:09 · Score: 1
  
  Well, were you root?
  Who the hell are you calling a root, buddy??
  Can someone mod this up? The guys at Ubuntu have to realize what they're dealing with. This is your average consumer, and that was a serious question.
75. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by captainpanic · 2012-09-14 00:11 · Score: 1
  
  I agree that Unity is actually a good desktop. But if they would add an optional taskbar at the bottom, it would be even better.
76. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-14 00:17 · Score: 0
  
  Garp, not that list AGAIN!! Very much like bible it has a microscopic bit of truth mixed with ocean of lies, and very much like bible, there are people that actually believe it BECAUSE, LOOK, ISN'T THAT ONE SENTENCE ABOUT LOVING EVERYONE AND PINK UNICORNS ABSOLUTELY TRUE => EVERYTHING THERE MUST BE TRUE!!!1
  Seriously, every year or two someone comes around and drags that list of BS out of gutter. If you actually believe it, good riddance, "Mr. Retailer".
77. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by drinkypoo · 2012-09-14 00:18 · Score: 1
  
  Or you can use unity2d all the time, and then it's not slowing down GPU actions at all, and everything works fine, and all the features you expect work fine.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
78. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Type44Q · 2012-09-14 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  This is your average consumer, and that was a serious question.
  I have been called a lot of things but average consumer is definitely a first! :p
79. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Type44Q · 2012-09-14 02:03 · Score: 1
  
  ...and that was a serious question.
  Sheesh. Or whoosh. (More like both.) It was a joke, okay? :) I was attempting to portray the "average consumer," not fool you (so easily, no less!) into thinking that I actualy was one!
  Seriously, Oh Mighty Bearded Ones, highschool is (presumably) long over with (malingering trauma inflicted by evil preps, preps and hoodlums nothwithstanding); isn't it time we all took a deep breath (let it flow slowly out through our coffee-stained incisors - our sinuses are probably too stuffed-up to perform this one by the book)... and make an attempt to find our inner senses of humor? They've gotta be under those rotund bellies somewhere! (Even my friends with Asperger's let out a chuckle every now and then)!* :)
  *I suppose I'm guilty of having forgotten about the whole *nix-admin stereotype: extremely nitpicky about technical details, completely awkward in social situations, not at all able to relate to more easy-going folk...
80. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by mcgrew · 2012-09-14 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure how fast the drives are, but being so much newer I would assume the notebook's drives are faster.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
81. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-14 03:43 · Score: 0
  
  KDE is written in C++ this is a competitive advantage (compared to Gnome). That Gnome-based stuff is out-of-date is demonstrated by the article.
  
  C++ a competitive advantage? Ever try and debug a complicated problem in C++? Every try and debug a complicated problem in C? C++ has its good points, but it is a long ways away from being an advantage.
  How is Gnome out of date? Personally I like the way Gnome is structured. A solid C foundation, that makes it easy to write Python, Javascript, Vala, etc. written apps on top
82. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by TemporalBeing · 2012-09-14 04:30 · Score: 1
  
  ... about problems with Linux on the desktop? Yeah. Here you go.
  (I'm not saying it's Linux's fault, but it is undeniably a problem with Linux. If some guy drives into you while you're stopped at a red light, the result is still that you have a broken car.)
  The only problem with your assertion is that Unity, GNOME, KDE, Xfce, CompuWiz, and others run on more than simply Linux - they also run on the BSDs and UNIX platforms. For a while GNOME was the standard desktop of Solaris; don't know if it still is or not.
  
  So this ultimately has nothing to do with Linux itself, even as the article noted wrt KDE the issue is GNOME and Unity.
  
  --
  Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
83. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-14 04:52 · Score: 0
  
  If it were truly a lie then they wouldn't have likely managed to get any settlements with Android manufacturers. There is surely at least something there, but even if it's a lie, the greater point remains. It's the developers, stupid.
84. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-14 06:49 · Score: 0
  
  If some guy drives into you while you're stopped at a red light, the result is still that you have a broken car.
  And maybe a broken neck.
85. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by nobaloney · 2012-09-14 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  Why all the distros are so in love with Gnome, I have no idea.
  Maybe because KDE doesn't work too well, slowing down and sucking up memory, if you've got Nepomuk (and whatever it's dependency is; I forget) running. And of course if it's not running you can't even search mail, or get typeahead on email addresses.
  If I'm wrong, please tell me a distribution which works.
86. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by nobaloney · 2012-09-14 06:56 · Score: 1
  
  Unfortunately, stock KDE has all that "semantic desktop" bullshit. What's needed is for someone to take it and make it the default, but tuned it right. Kinda like what Mint does with Gnome3 (though the necessary changes would be much smaller here).
  I know I'm going to lose Karma here; this is a me too post. But yes, please, someone do this. If there's already a version that just works (4 core Intel Core 4-core processor, 4GB memory; system still bogs down or locks up after a day or two of uptime, running Kubuntu 12.04; it simply doesn't work) just tell us which one.
87. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by nobaloney · 2012-09-14 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  physics is just applied math
  Physics are what your grandmother gave you when you were constipated. But only if you're over 60.
88. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Grishnakh · 2012-09-14 07:26 · Score: 1
  
  From everything I read, Nepomuk really isn't a big problem any more, once it's done its initial indexing. I really don't see a lot of valid complaints about the latest versions (e.g. 4.9) of KDE any more, all the complaints seem to be about things earlier on in the 4.0 series which are all fixed now.
  Notice that the TFA is about KDE outperforming Gnome/Unity. It wouldn't be able to claim that if Nepomuk is slowing it down that much.
  Finally, the stuff about searching mail or getting typeahead on email addresses is only a factor if you use Kmail. Most people these days seem to use Gmail or some other webmail service out of convenience. Most people use KDE or Gnome because they need a DE for managing all their windows and interacting with their PC, not because they need an integrated email application. But again, from what I've read, this is no longer a problem. There are some people, however, bitching that they can't import their Kmail mail into another application since it uses a database to store it, but I'm not sure if that's fully valid because I thought some other people pointed out that you still have the option to select maildir as the storage backed.
89. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-14 07:52 · Score: 0
  
  Arch Linux is the best OS money cant buy. Although a typical Arch install is only around 80 % finished...
  There are similar installations as mentioned above with Debian + a DE. But package installation is much much easier because of the sheer awesomeness of pacman (watch out for the initial trusted user signatures, new users!)
90. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-14 09:58 · Score: 0
  
  C++ is far more suitable for writing a desktop environment
91. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-14 10:19 · Score: 0
  
  most of that list is bullshit and you should probably kill yourself
92. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by lsatenstein · 2012-09-14 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  This is exactly right. So many people are bitching about Unity and Gnome3, all this would be moot if they'd just dump that crap and make KDE the default desktop, and different distros customize the many configuration options in it to their liking. KDE can be made to look and act very different with the config options and themes (and of course users can use that as a starting point and make further tweaks easily in "System Settings"). People who want something lighterweight can use XFCE or whatever, so that can be offered as an alternative to KDE in some distros.
  Why all the distros are so in love with Gnome, I have no idea.
  =======================
  After using Gnome3 for the past year, and frequently reverting to Gnome2 or KDE or XFCE, I can say that G3 with a tweak that presents the desktop as the background is most welcome and makes G3 enjoyable. I installed a second tweak that provides an icon on the panel which, when clicked, opens up a G2 style of menu. The only other tweak I installed was to show the power-off option as well as suspend button.
  I put the terminal icon onto the favorites bar, as well as my VIM GUI, and removed apps that I do rarely use. Doing so gave me the interface that I enjoy. There is one improvement that I would love, and that is to be able to have a an ability to drag a specific directory rapid switch to the favorites bar. Clicking that icon should work in the same manner as clicking the home directory icon. Why only limit me to the home directory?
  On the negative side, the top left corner is not an ideal choice to use to present the windows select option. Its position should default elsewhere, but allow the user to select how to present the windows selection presentation.
  I do miss compiz wobbly windows, or fast virtual desktop changing. My KDE setup provides WW and Fast VDC.
  
  --
  Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
93. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by jbo5112 · 2012-09-14 13:11 · Score: 1
  
  Qt (KDE) is a natively object oriented design, which is a much more modern development paradigm, that allows for larger and more complex programs to be developed with less trouble. While GTK+ (GNOME) has gtkmm, it looks to me like a poor port into object oriented design. You can get flashy effects either way, but from a design and API perspective, I must say Qt beats the pants off of GTK+. I could be missing something important that exists in the rest of the KDE or GNOME development ecosystems, but it would have to be rather significant. Considering all the resources and backing that GNOME gets from distributions compared to KDE, it shows amazing design for KDE to get anywhere remotely close to feature parity.
94. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by nobaloney · 2012-09-14 13:42 · Score: 1
  
  From everything I read, Nepomuk really isn't a big problem any more, once it's done its initial indexing.
  I don't know who you're hearing it from. I as I wrote above, I'm willing to hear what works, but my experience with both Kubuntu and OpenSuse is that it doesn't work on my desktop. I suppose it could be some kind of weird problem with my motherboard/chipset/whatever combination. I've recently installed everything on a new laptop and will know shortly if it works on the laptop; I intend to switch over this weekend. But when I search I find current posts and threads, and the answer is always turn it off.
  
  I really don't see a lot of valid complaints about the latest versions (e.g. 4.9) of KDE any more, all the complaints seem to be about things earlier on in the 4.0 series which are all fixed now.
  I suppose my complaint is invalid, then :)
  
  Notice that the TFA is about KDE outperforming Gnome/Unity. It wouldn't be able to claim that if Nepomuk is slowing it down that much.
  I only know that since KDE3, each update to KDE has gotten harder for me to use, to justify; because of that, and because Gnome Shell and Unity appear to be going in the idio^H^H^H^Hlowest common denominator direction, I no longer recommend the Linux desktop to anyone (as I've done for over ten years). I'd seriously consider Windows 7 if I thought it wouldn't be a dead-end.
  Maybe it's all my fault because I want to run my desktop for days at a time; because I want to keep multiple virtual screens open, because I want to keep multiple copies of my browser open. But those features are the reasons I've always used the Linux Desktop, and like a lot of people who use it heavily, day-to-day, I'm both disappointed and frustrated. (As an aside, I own and run a company which manages many linux servers for webhosting companies, and I'm very satisfied with Linux-based servers, so this isn't some kind of prejudice.)
  
  Finally, the stuff about searching mail or getting typeahead on email addresses is only a factor if you use Kmail.
  And what, pray tell, should I use to replace it? Don't tell me Gmail.
  
  Most people these days seem to use Gmail or some other webmail service out of convenience.
  What did I just say :) ? Why should I use a webmail service? The best of them, including Gmail, waste a lot of screen real estate (for example, when you want to write an email and look at a different email at the same time). I'm not a laywer. I do have a friend who plays one on TV but I don't rely in him for advice. So I discussed the Google privacy policy with our company's retained attorney, and he tells me that if I were to use Gmail for business email to be safe I'd have to publish much of Google's privacy policy as part of our own. I'm not willing to do that. Therre's a lot of mixed feelings out here on the 'net as to whether Google is or isn't evil, but that isn't my point. My point is I don't want others' feelings about Google to get in the way of their business relationship with me.
  I don't need Gmail anyway, we own our own private cloud, buy space on others for redundancy, and I'm as happy with RoundCube's webmail as I could be with any, but that's not the point either. Why should I, or you, or anyone, say that KDE is fine as long as I don't use it's built in tool, Kmail (and also Kontact's other pieces as well)?
  
  Most people use KDE or Gnome because they need a DE for managing all their windows and interacting with their PC, not because they need an integrated email application.
  I originally chose KDE specifically for it's integrated email application. From the KDE documentation and promotional material, I'd think the people responsible for KDE would like me to continue to do that.
  
  But again, from what I've read, this is no longer a problem
95. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by jbo5112 · 2012-09-14 15:25 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, we all know how lacking Linux is in databases and operational infrastructure, and how limited it is at running cloud computing. I think you've finally found why Linux isn't catching on.
  As a developer, I must say that Linux platforms have been much more stable and reliable, and Qt is much better designed than anything I've seen from Microsoft. If you throw in the vastly superior Linux shell (bash) and the large and wonderful ecosystem of command line utilities and languages, Microsoft is rather unpleasant development environment. However, the large array of good, free applications in Linux may be the biggest downside.
  It's hard to operate a business without selling something, and it's hard to sell something when everyone knows others are giving away something similar and almost as good (switching an OS is a little more involved than switching word processors). When your livelihood isn't on the line, there's not as much incentive to cross the line into greatness. For example, all the Linux media players I can find have intermittent problems with menus on an occasional DVD, but if that was revealed in reviews of PowerDVD, they'd have trouble collecting their $50-$125 from new customers to make payroll.
  I think there are plenty of developers who are attracted to Linux. It powers much of the internet, including most/all the largest sites (except Microsoft's which lose money hand over fist). Could you imagine Facebook trying to store 250 million photos a day (in 4 resolutions each) and serve millions of photos a second on Windows servers? It also attracts a lot of talent from Hollywood including DreamWorks, Pixar, Disney, ILM, Maya, and Sony to name a few. Lastly, in the Top 500 supercomputer list, Linux is beating Windows 462-2.
  I think Microsoft claims Linux violates their patents because they are a patent whore, who is afraid of the competition. The only platform that Linux can't beat them at, desktop/laptop computing, is fading to little more than a web browser for most people. Until Microsoft discloses which patents they are, I'm calling them liars. Just because companies are settling on licensing agreements, doesn't mean there would have been a violation. Sometimes it's just cheaper than court cases. I think in Novell's case (SUSE Linux), Microsoft pays them.
  First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Mahatma Gandhi
96. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by jbo5112 · 2012-09-14 15:35 · Score: 1
  
  Sometimes it's cheaper to settle than fight in court. Everyone laugh at Google for fighting Viacom on accusations of copyright infringements. Google correctly insisted they were right, and eventually won in court. In the process, people in the media called them foolish for wasting so money on legal fees and all suggested that settling would be cheaper. Something is seriously wrong when you can be falsely accused, and your best option is to pay them off.
97. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Grishnakh · 2012-09-14 17:15 · Score: 1
  
  I suppose my complaint is invalid, then :)
  Seriously, when was the last time you tried KDE? If the last time was an early 4.0 series version, that's like judging Windows by the Vista release. The 4.0 series has been out for years now. It mostly looks the same, but underneath it's gotten a lot better in that time.
  Maybe it's all my fault because I want to run my desktop for days at a time; because I want to keep multiple virtual screens open, because I want to keep multiple copies of my browser open.
  That's exactly how I use my KDE desktop, and have been since KDE 4.4 or 4.5. It didn't work so great back then when I first switched to the 4.x series (occasional crashing, and dbus-daemon sometimes pegging the CPU at 100%), but in the last year or so, those problems seem to be all gone. The very latest Mint KDE and Kubuntu releases seem really solid. It runs constantly on both my desktop and my Thinkpad; I almost never reboot my laptop. My biggest problem with stability these days is web browsers hogging too much memory, and needing to be restarted after a while. That's not a KDE issue since I don't use any KDE-based web browsers (I use Firefox and Chromium, mostly the latter these days).
  What did I just say :) ? Why should I use a webmail service?
  This is all personal preference. You can even use Thunderbird if you want; lots of people do. Using KDE doesn't mean you're restricted to KDE applications. Very few KDE users likely use Rekonq for web browsing for instance.
  But I use Gmail because 1) I can use it on multiple computers (I switch a lot between my desktop and laptop) without having to worry about synchronizing, 2) its spam filtering is second to none, 3) it's very fast, especially if I do any searching. Yeah, the new UI sucks donkey balls. Setting it to "compact" and enabling text buttons (instead of icons) helps a lot though. Maybe someone will make a "greasemonkey" or chromium extension that fixes it.
  Why should I, or you, or anyone, say that KDE is fine as long as I don't use it's built in tool, Kmail (and also Kontact's other pieces as well)?
  Because it's only one application. Evolution may be the standard email client for Gnome, but lots of Gnome users surely use Thunderbird, which isn't tied to any DE. The reason people are bitching and complaining about Unity and Gnome3 isn't about email clients, it's the DE itself, and really the way it manages windows more than anything probably. KDE doesn't have those same problems. I'm really not sure how good or bad Kmail is to be honest because I haven't really tried it, but my point is that of the available choices, KDE seems to be the best, though if KMail is unsatisfactory, you can always use Evolution or Thunderbird. None of the choices are likely to be ideal; in fact, no choice is likely to be ideal. Windows isn't ideal since everyone's bitching about Win8/Metro now. MacOS isn't ideal; lots of people complain about various aspects of that. Obviously, Unity and Gnome3 have tons of complaints. KDE isn't going to be perfect either. You just have to choose the best available choice, based on your personal requirements and preferences.
  I don't know where you've gotten that from; it sounds like you may have Kmail confused with something else, because Kmail doesn't offer a database method of storing email; it offers an absolutely standard MailDir configuration It works fine.
  I might be confused, but I really thought I read a bunch of people bitching about it using a database to store the email and that this made it difficult to move mail to other applications.
98. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by infinitelink · 2012-09-15 08:31 · Score: 1
  
  I have mod points, and I was thinking of modding your comment "underrated" at "4, Insightful", but decided to add that I have 'converted' people to Linux and when it is working great they love it, because they don't have to wait and be greeted by a little animation when they right-click for a dialogue, things move quickly and work well...but on XFCE, and that was probably 10.10 of Xubuntu, and that was with me BLOCKING all upgrades, and only making some, sometimes, when I had the time, by going over to visit friends/family, and of course it could get annoying when websites started urging an updated version of Flash...
  
  Now that I have added a few cents of experience, carry on lecturing those without discipline to build things that are stable and functional rather than breaking things like little kids that just have to make something "better" from a dev's p.o.v. "RIGHT NOW!!!"
  
  --
  Intelligent idiots are we. | Evil men do not understand justice.
99. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by PrimaryConsult · 2012-09-15 10:39 · Score: 1
  
  Bootloader problems
  More recently the problem is for my laptop and netbook, it detects the windows recovery partition in addition to (or possibly instead of) the actual windows partition.
  Historically I would have a problem where it would point to the wrong partition... possibly due to the devices looking different to the installer versus the installed system. Since I started using LVM for my root partition this hasn't happened (but the issue may have been addressed with Grub 2).
  
  * Graphics issues. Yep, needs some manual work if you want to run the latest Nvidia drivers. For heaven's sake, do NOT install the drivers using some script made by a random guy. Add the testing or unstable repositories to your apt-get config, and pin your system to the stable repository (or easier still, just install Debian testing). You can then install the latest and greatest Nvidia driver via official debian packages. I'm using the testing package myself, and it's perfectly fine. It's already been through unstable, so I'm assured that there aren't any "game-breaking" bugs in it. Debian testing is as stable as other distribution's full releases, except that Debian updates more often.
  I ran testing for a while. A dependency mistake that made it through to test a year or so ago convinced me never to do that again. Admittedly I should only do safe-upgrades, but one time a dist-upgrade in "testing" resulted in *everything* (including Gnome and parts of X) being removed. I wish I could remember the exact package but it seems a required one from sid didn't filter to test when the rest of them did. It basically blew a hole in the dependency tree for anyone using Nvidia.
  
  * Codec issues. Yep, not friendly to basic users. Can't be helped, though. Debian has always said that it is dedicated to completely free software. It was never going to include encumbered codecs in the main system. Not even in the non-free section. I dispute that the deb-multimedia repo is a "resort". It's an excellent source for these missing codecs
  As someone who uses some of the more advanced things in deb-multimedia I agree it is a fantastic resource. But, it's a hoop that an Ubuntu-only user trying out Debian would be completely unfamiliar with.
  
  * Iceweasel. Actually, I really like this name, especially when you know the story behind it. Believe me, it's not done to confuse. There is a reason, and it is good.
  I remember the story now; I probably shouldn't have said "purposely." I have always (personally) liked the name. However, it is still a difference... Firefox is a nice island of familiarity for "average Joe Convert" which makes Ubuntu slightly (very slightly) less overwhelming than Debian.
100. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by nobaloney · 2012-09-16 11:16 · Score: 1
  
  Seriously, when was the last time you tried KDE?
  KDE 4.8.4 from Kubuntu 12.04.
  
  The very latest Mint KDE and Kubuntu releases seem really solid. It runs constantly on both my desktop and my Thinkpad; I almost never reboot my laptop. My biggest problem with stability these days is web browsers hogging too much memory, and needing to be restarted after a while.
  Maybe the problem then really is some weird incompatibility with my Desktop system. I ran into some time-sinks this weekend so it'll probably be another week before I move all to my new Toshiba Satellite laptop, and when I do I'll hopefully find an entirely new experience.
  
  You can even use Thunderbird if you want; lots of people do.
  And I prefer Kmail (when it works) mainly because I've built an entire business structure around Kontact's features.
  
  But I use Gmail because 1) I can use it on multiple computers (I switch a lot between my desktop and laptop) without having to worry about synchronizing,
  I do the same with Kmail running IMAP against my own mail server, which runs Dovecot
  
  2) its spam filtering is second to none,
  Unfortunately I can't use gmail spam filtering; I need to use the spam filtering we offer our clients, so I can watch over it's effectiveness as spam and anti-spam defenses continue to evolve.
  
  3) it's very fast, especially if I do any searching.
  I can't argue there, but we all thought that's what we'd eventually get out of the new KDE with nepomuk
  
  Because it's only one application.
  It happens to be (along with Kontact) the application that led me to KDE in the first place, even years ago.
  
  but my point is that of the available choices, KDE seems to be the best, though if KMail is unsatisfactory, you can always use Evolution or Thunderbird. None of the choices are likely to be ideal; in fact, no choice is likely to be ideal.
  I agree that KDE is the best. I feel that KMail wouldn't be unsatisfactory if it worked as it supposed to according to its documentation.
  
  Windows isn't ideal since everyone's bitching about Win8/Metro now. MacOS isn't ideal; lots of people complain about various aspects of that. Obviously, Unity and Gnome3 have tons of complaints. KDE isn't going to be perfect either. You just have to choose the best available choice, based on your personal requirements and preferences.
  I do. I'm still on KDE. And one important reason why I don't go back to Windows after this many years isn't Win7; it's the future: Win8. As you probably realize, Microsoft doesn't call it Metro anymore, probably because so many of us picked up on the railroad reference and call it . I still use KDE. I'd like to like it.
  
  I might be confused, but I really thought I read a bunch of people bitching about it using a database to store the email and that this made it difficult to move mail to other applications.
  That's what I heard about Thunderbird, and that's the main reason I never moved to Thunderbird, but it's no longer an issue now, because with IMAP I don't use local storage. If I can't get KDE/Kmail, etc., working on my laptop I'll be looking for a combination of software (hopefully well integrated) to replace Kmail/Kontact. I don't even mind paying for something which will work. Thanks for your comments; they're welcome and have made me consider some of my thoughts about my desktop vs my laptop.
101. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Grishnakh · 2012-09-16 12:26 · Score: 1
  
  3) it's very fast, especially if I do any searching.
  I can't argue there, but we all thought that's what we'd eventually get out of the new KDE with nepomuk
  I might be missing something here, but it seems to me that's unrealistic. Google is running their Gmail service on large servers with extremely fast disks, tons of memory, and server CPUs with huge amounts of cache. How many regular users are going to run KDE/nepomuk on a quad Xeon system with a 64-drive SAS RAID6 setup and 128GB of memory? Sure, Gmail users have to share these systems, and they have to contend with network latency, but when searching your entire mail archive of tens of thousands of emails for some text strings, Gmail does it in seconds; I don't think Kmail, or any locally-run email application, would ever be able to match that unless you've set up a very beefy system.
102. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by nobaloney · 2012-09-16 14:38 · Score: 1
  
  My understanding (and I could be wrong) was that the searching was done in the background and then every search served from some kind of database. Maybe I'm wrong, but if so, then why do we bother with it when search worked well (albeit slowly) without it? And of course, even so, in an IMAP solution the text search is occurring on my server, which actually is configured similarly to your specs, probably better when adjusted for load based on how many people we serve vs how many people Google serves.
103. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Grishnakh · 2012-09-16 14:44 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not totally familiar with exactly how IMAP servers work, but yes, in theory, if the IMAP system is doing the search on the server side, it should be competitive with Google Mail in speed, assuming the IT department doesn't cheap out on the IMAP server.
104. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by nobaloney · 2012-09-16 16:44 · Score: 1
  
  It's my IMAP server :).
  No need to reply.
105. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by deek · 2012-09-16 19:07 · Score: 1
  
  Good points, but on the whole, they're not especially bad issues. Except maybe for that testing dependency bug you mentioned. Apt-get will print a confirmation prompt before doing package removals, and a large package removal batch should stick out like a sore thumb. I suggest you give testing another try.
  As far as the other issues, they aren't deal-breakers. In fact, for a newbie, they can be a good catalyst for learning more about how the system works. Little inconveniences can often lead to a great deal of learning.
106. Re:Remember that thread from the other day... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-20 10:32 · Score: 0
  
  > When I can take ANY release from 3 versions ago and upgrade to current and have a 100% functional system?
  Actually what you are describing exists. Ubuntu 10.04 LTS.
  Give it a try, rock solid offering for simple web-browsing and media playback.
Two statements: by aussersterne · 2012-09-13 05:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

Linux advocate:
"It may be slower, but you're not stuck with anything Windows-like and you can fix the code yourself!"
Prospective user:
"Wait... It's slower, AND it doesn't work like Windows, AND you want me to fix the code myself?!"

--
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
1. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:23 · Score: 0
  
  Linux advocate:
  "It may be slower, but you're not stuck with anything Windows-like and you can fix the code yourself!"
  Prospective user:
  "Wait... It's slower, AND it doesn't work like Windows, AND you want me to fix the code myself?!"
  A key difference you curiously left out of these two statements is at least $120.
2. Re:Two statements: by MrEricSir · 2012-09-13 05:32 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  A key difference you curiously left out of these two statements is at least $120.
  So you're saying people should expect less from Linux because it's free?
  
  --
  There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
3. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:37 · Score: 1
  
  Well at least $90.27 now (was much less at release, and a whole lot less if you bought the family pack).
  As a consultant, I make more than that in an hour. Are you suggesting that within one hour, I will have a fully functioning system that is comparable to Windows and I will have less than one hour of retraining? No. Didn't think so.
4. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:38 · Score: 0
  
  Well, Yes! That's how capitalism works. Deal with it.
5. Re:Two statements: by Nikker · 2012-09-13 05:46 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  If you're charging +$90/hr then, well ya I would suggest that.
  
  Hell I set up Ubuntu 12.04 + Cairo-Dock + VMWare Workstation 9.0 on a computer illiterate friends computer with a Win7 Guest in about an hour on a quad core with a decent HDD. Then I showed her the dock and some wobbly windows and she basically taught her self she was so into it.
  
  Funny thing is I don't even make close to your pay grade. You should start to wonder if you are really worth it.
  
  --
  A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
6. Re:Two statements: by Ginger+Unicorn · 2012-09-13 05:47 · Score: 2
  
  No, he's saying that not paying $120 is an advantage.
  
  --
  (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
7. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:47 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  Linux advocate:
  "Use what you bloody want, I'm busy."
  Prospective user:
  "But...."
  Linux advocate:
  "Look there's a man over there that will take your money, go talk to him."
  Prospective user:
  "But yours is free."
  Linux advocate:
  "No it Free. Now piss off."
8. Re:Two statements: by armanox · 2012-09-13 05:56 · Score: 1
  
  Within an hour of what? Post-install, from install? Within an hour my Linux desktops are about as functional as Windows (Drivers, Flash, Java, A/V codecs, updates).
  Retraining? When were you ever "trained" on Windows? I didn't learn how to use Windows in school, I learned how to use a computer - how to do Word Processing, Desktop Publishing, Spreadsheets, etc. We had Apple ]['s when I was in Elem, Macs (system 7 IIRC) in Middle school, and iMacs in HS (OS 9 and then OS X), with the exception of a few Windows 2000 and XP machines in the programming classes (or, if you were in assembly, they still had Windows 3.1); and used the old whens when needed. I'm glad to know that you're less flexible then school children.
  
  --
  I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
9. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:02 · Score: 0
  
  At US federal minimum wage, $120 is equivalent to 16.55 hours of work.
  learning curve + slower performance + learning about the code + fixing the code = Home Premium is looking kinda good.
  And that's assuming the person already knows how to code well enough to not break things. For the vast majority of people, the GP is right to omit the price difference: it makes Linux look less bad.
10. Re:Two statements: by lister+king+of+smeg · 2012-09-13 06:03 · Score: 1
  
  Hell i could probably send you a script and you would have a usable desktop after running it. let me set it up and yes it will be usable after an hour (unless you have abominably slow internet) complete with more eye-candy than windows or apple ever though of and an app for whatever you could want. Need MS Office it runs well in wine last I checked or I could put it on a VM. If your here you are probably not using IE so you can probably have a your choice browser already, opera, firefox, chrome, all run of linux. as for chat Pidgen chatcleint runs linux, As does thunderbird for your email. VLC for media if you need something little less utiliatarian and more polished than you can use banshee, rythmbox, Clementine, or any of a dozen others. for torrents take your pick deluge, transmission,,,. other than nich stuff it can be done on linux.
  
  --
  ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
11. Re:Two statements: by PopeRatzo · 2012-09-13 06:11 · Score: 2
  
  So you're saying people should expect less from Linux because it's free?
  If by "less" you mean, "you will owe less on your credit card because you didn't drop a C-note on Windows", or, "I am less likely to be locked out of my system because I changed my hard drive and now Microsoft Activation doesn't recognize my serial number" or "My operating system takes up a lot less disk space and requires less in the way of computing resources now that I'm using Linux instead of Windows" then, yes, they should expect "less".
  
  --
  You are welcome on my lawn.
12. Re:Two statements: by Kozar_The_Malignant · 2012-09-13 06:14 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Time is money, and $120.00 is about an hour of my time. I'm pretty sure that I can't fix Unity in an hour.
  
  --
  Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
13. Re:Two statements: by Noughmad · 2012-09-13 06:30 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I'm pretty sure that you can't fix Windows in a hour either.
  
  --
  PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
14. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps what he is wanting to use windows for, isn't 'broken' in that fashion?
15. Re:Two statements: by cheesybagel · 2012-09-13 07:02 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Pay an Indian to fix it in several hours then.
16. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 07:03 · Score: 0
  
  What the Linux guy meant is that the code doesn't come broken from the factory, and you aren't stuck with it being broken for years and years and years, and even if you can't fix it yourself, if you wanted, you could pay someone to fix it. You can't do that with windows. Oh, and what the kids from best buy do isn't fixing it. They shut parts of it off to mask the problem. It stays broken.
17. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 07:21 · Score: 0
  
  i am pretty sure, after u first time u installed windows u take a few hours just to find, download and install all programs u need, where fuckloads of them are not free.
  while in kubuntu(which btw doesnt have unity)it may be matter of typing "apt-get install program-name" probably it even accepts multiple programs as argument.and btw, u are bullshitting us about 120 dollars an hour.
18. Re:Two statements: by Gothmolly · 2012-09-13 07:21 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  So you install Linux, then put VM+Win7 on it so she can get work done?
  Sounds like YOU are the one not adding value.
  
  --
  I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
19. Re:Two statements: by Anne+Thwacks · 2012-09-13 07:23 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  Perhaps, but, on the basis of 20 years of experience, it is almost certainly broken in some fashion.
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
20. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 07:26 · Score: 0
  
  wao... really? u even go there? seriously? i got magic word for u, KUBUNTU biach. Kubuntu, another african word, that means - no need to fuck with unity.
  just wit for windows 8 :P
  it wil be major lulz generator.
21. Re:Two statements: by Nikker · 2012-09-13 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  Heh, I get the job done without $90+/hr experience.
  
  Win7 is there so I don't have to do it in the case that Windows is actually needed(right now just boots in to "Unity mode" so she can watch netflix). But I guess that is a custom solution. For someone making $90/hr whining that installing a $(LINUX_DISTRO) and showing where the icons are is too much of a burden then is that sounds more like someone admitting their short comings.
  
  For that price you should be able to make it rain at the drop of a hat.
  
  --
  A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
22. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 07:30 · Score: 0
  
  In an hour? Your claim is specious at best.
  > ... I set up Ubuntu 12.04 + Cairo-Dock...
  Okay, sure. That can be done in less than an hour.
  > ... [plus] VMWare Workstation 9.0...
  Okay, you could have gotten that installed within the same hour, but only if you had a fast enough internet connection or had the installation media on hand.
  > ... with a Win7 Guest...
  No, not within the same hour you didn't.
  Adding on the time you spent showing your friend how to use it that sounds more like a 2-3 hour effort, not within an hour.
  </pedantism>
23. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 07:36 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder if we could sort of kickstart bugs and missing features from open source software that way...
24. Re:Two statements: by Anne+Thwacks · 2012-09-13 07:36 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  There is no way Windows is operational within an hour of installing - a couple of days of installing, updating and rebooting are required unless you have a custom image to use. Even if its pre-installed (eg new laptop) it will take many hours to create the recovery disks, - which you need to do before anything else. And it will take a ton of money to replace the pre-installed boatware with the real versions of Office and what ever anti-virus scam you have been lumbered with.
  Ubuntu is productive within 40 minutes of deciding to install, if you have a CD to hand, even on a six year old laptop (provided you avoid Unity).
  As for drivers - a new Windows machine probably comes with drivers (which you can preserve by creating the recovery disks), but with older machines, in all probability, the network drivers won't be there, and without them, you can't access the Internet to download them!
  There is just no way Windows is ready for the average user - unless he is completely unconcerned about stability and security. Oh, wait ...
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
25. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 07:40 · Score: 0, Funny
  
  STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  Your sig is wrong. America isn't doing anything to you. The United States is. I am an American, not a United Statesian. Although 90+% of the American population can't tell the difference thanks to government schools...
26. Re:Two statements: by Nikker · 2012-09-13 07:42 · Score: 2
  
  It might have been slightly more than *one* hour including instruction but for a high-end pro parent should be able to squeeze it in.
  
  You should really try installing / running Windows Guest on a Linux host the drive speed is really uncanny for the guest. On a Phenom II x4 @ 3.2GHz and a Seagate Barracuda 500GB, 7200 RPM I can very realistically install a Windows 7 guest in 20-30 min from "insert DVD" to desktop. VMWare 9.0 actually has light years better GPU drivers support which is why I used it for Netflix. Since VMWare does not use apt to install you can actually install Player/Workstation after you do the initial install while apt is grabbing updates without issue.
  
  --
  A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
27. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 07:44 · Score: 0
  
  A couple of problems with your statements: - AC said s/he's a consultant - could be any kind. You sound like you're assuming it's as an IT consultant / OS installer - The bigger the differential in ACs hourly earnings to $90, the less it makes sense for them to waste their time. I also earn more than $90/hr. I can and have installed linux (since the floppy days). I can make it drizzle, at least. But it is no longer worth my time to maintain a linux machine, so I don't. I have better things to do with my time. - You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder about your pay grade. Being able to setup linux is not a merit badge.
28. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 07:47 · Score: 0
  
  So you're saying people should expect less from Linux because it's free?
  If by "less" you mean, "you will owe less on your credit card because you didn't drop a C-note on Windows", or, "I am less likely to be locked out of my system because I changed my hard drive and now Microsoft Activation doesn't recognize my serial number" or "My operating system takes up a lot less disk space and requires less in the way of computing resources now that I'm using Linux instead of Windows" then, yes, they should expect "less".
  You're also forgetting "I purchased a volume license for my company and am now required to set up a passport account based on my e-mail address, then sign in to the licensing portal which requires a DIFFERENT e-mail address than the passport account--but my license went to the email account that is the same as my passport account, so now I can't access my licenses or software that I already paid for and Microsoft support will basically tell you to add the license to your account and wait 24-48 hours for it to 'time out' and be accepted". That's always a fun one. And now a year later, you actually CAN use the same e-mail as your passport account...but old accounts can't be 'fixed'.
29. Re:Two statements: by Nikker · 2012-09-13 07:53 · Score: 1
  
  Ya I guess the AC could be a Veterinarian consultant of some sort, that would make more sense. Realistically all s/he did was a post of some AC saying they make $200k+/year and they wouldn't be able to install a set and forget install procedure, doesn't really matter what it is, it's likely BS.
  
  You should be able to figure that one out ;)
  
  --
  A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
30. Re:Two statements: by Threni · 2012-09-13 07:54 · Score: 1
  
  It'll take you about 5 hours to explain what you want, send it back a few times to fix it, then have an uneasy feeling it'll stop working when the clocks go forward, the 13th day of the next month, new years day etc.
31. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 08:00 · Score: 0
  
  What the Linux guy meant is that the code doesn't come broken from the factory, and you aren't stuck with it being broken for years and years and years, and even if you can't fix it yourself, if you wanted, you could pay someone to fix it. You can't do that with windows. Oh, and what the kids from best buy do isn't fixing it. They shut parts of it off to mask the problem. It stays broken.
  ...as compared to Linux where basic things get fucked up during a new release cycle, get flagged as regressions, then sit on the shelf for years while people say "Can you test with the latest version?". Yeah. I'll test with the latest version right the fuck after you tell me what you've done to fix it that I need to test...
  
  5 years of mdns issues
  2 years of incompetence in design
  3 years of numlock fail
  1.5 years of more Unity bullshit
  
  Don't forget things like the huge PulseAudio debacle and the changes forced down your throat like making window manager buttons more 'mac like'.
  
  The same bullshit occurs on Linux. It's not a panacea. All that being said, it's still better than Windows--just don't use Canonical-based crap.
32. Re:Two statements: by MrEricSir · 2012-09-13 08:09 · Score: 1
  
  "My operating system takes up a lot less disk space and requires less in the way of computing resources now that I'm using Linux instead of Windows"
  So you not only didn't read the article, but you didn't even read the headline?
  
  --
  There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
33. Re:Two statements: by marcosdumay · 2012-09-13 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  I'm pretty sure you can install KDE in less than an hour.
  As an added bonus, you won't have to suffer using neither Unity nor Windows for the next months. That must be worth something.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
34. Re:Two statements: by mcgrew · 2012-09-13 08:15 · Score: 2
  
  So you're saying people should expect less from Linux because it's free?
  It would be logical to expect less from a free program than an expensive one, but in fact you get far more with a good Linux distro than any version of Windows. I'm running both kubuntu and Win7 at home, and Win7 lacks features and us far less useable. OTOH I haven't found any features in Windows that kde lacks, other than Windows being prettier.
  
  --
  Free Martian Whores!
35. Re:Two statements: by Patch86 · 2012-09-13 08:47 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You're pretty well paid. If you applied that logic to everything in your life, you'd struggle to get much done. "Making a coffee takes 10 minutes, which is $20 of my time. Coffee from a shop costs less than $20, so I better not make myself a coffee- it'd be a waste of my time!".
  No wonder really rich people need to pay servants to do things for them; their own self-worth must be crippling.
36. Re:Two statements: by shellbeach · 2012-09-13 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  Um ... if you're not interested in coding or care about open source software, why on earth would you be even considering using linux?
  Linux is made by the programming community, for the programming community. It's never been hugely popular on the desktop and most likely it never will be.
37. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 09:24 · Score: 0
  
  Any OS will have issues, but in the past 20 years, the only thing I've had to replace to make Windows work very well was file moving and copying. They are badly broken in Win 7, but with the installation of a single app, TerraCopy, I have a PC that never gives me any trouble.
  Windows is very good right out of the box.
38. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 10:55 · Score: 0
  
  I am familiar with the performance of the Phenom line. I have done a lot of desktop and server visualisation and I know very well what the advantages are and I don't disagree with doing it. The person you were responding to is an ass. I'm just pointing out that your claim of performing that work within an hour is inaccurate.
39. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 11:50 · Score: 0
  
  There is no way Windows is operational within an hour of installing - a couple of days of installing, updating and rebooting are required unless you have a custom image to use. Even if its pre-installed (eg new laptop) it will take many hours to create the recovery disks, - which you need to do before anything else. And it will take a ton of money to replace the pre-installed boatware with the real versions of Office and what ever anti-virus scam you have been lumbered with.
  Ubuntu is productive within 40 minutes of deciding to install, if you have a CD to hand, even on a six year old laptop (provided you avoid Unity).
  As for drivers - a new Windows machine probably comes with drivers (which you can preserve by creating the recovery disks), but with older machines, in all probability, the network drivers won't be there, and without them, you can't access the Internet to download them!
  There is just no way Windows is ready for the average user - unless he is completely unconcerned about stability and security.
  Oh, wait ...
  Your first two sentences were so full of lies it's unbelievable.
40. Re:Two statements: by Kozar_The_Malignant · 2012-09-13 12:36 · Score: 1
  
  That was my point. I run Mandriva with KDE.
  
  --
  Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
41. Re:Two statements: by Kozar_The_Malignant · 2012-09-13 12:57 · Score: 1
  
  I am very well paid. I like making my own coffee. I don't have a gardener, because I like gardening. I would rather have a root canal and a colonoscopy at the same time with no anesthetic than try to fix Unity. Accounting for my time in my work life and my personal life are two very different things.
  
  --
  Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
42. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 13:46 · Score: 0
  
  There is no way Windows is operational within an hour of installing - a couple of days of installing, updating and rebooting are required unless you have a custom image to use.
  
  I'm no fan of M$ but that's just factually incorrect. A fresh install shouldn't take more than 45 minutes on modern hardware, then updates on a broadband connection will take no more than 2-3 hours.
43. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 13:48 · Score: 0
  
  Pay a native American to fix it in several hours then.
  FTFY
44. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 16:04 · Score: 0
  
  What the fuck is wrong with you? Your 'y' and 'o' key are obviously working, but for some reason you can't spell out the word 'you'? Out of all that, you saved yourself from typing ten letters.
  Moron!
45. Re:Two statements: by Air-conditioned+cowh · 2012-09-13 17:08 · Score: 1
  
  I'm pretty sure that you can't fix Windows in a hour either.
  Last time I installed Linux over Windows it took less than 10 mins.
46. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 17:54 · Score: 0
  
  A couple of days? Absolute shit. Uninstall bloatware - say an hour. At most. Install antivirus. Install office suite. Install browser. Another hour or two. There, its fully usable. Updates will come through and install automatically in the background as necessary, I don't NEED to stop and wait for it to complete. Same with recovery discs, which honestly I've never even burnt before, but I could see why you'd want to, if the HD and recovery partition goes tits up.
  As for drivers for older systems, Motherboard CD? remember those?
  Just the usual FUD about microsoft operating systems.
47. Re:Two statements: by arkhan_jg · 2012-09-13 18:07 · Score: 1
  
  There is no way Windows is operational within an hour of installing - a couple of days of installing
  OK, I use linux, OSX and windows - and have been experimenting with builds of them lately - and that's a load of bull. Installing windows is about the same length of time of ubuntu, i.e. 10-20 minutes to prep the drive, partition and install the OS. In ubuntu, you get some packages included; you then go bobbing through the software centre for the rest, and a handful of ppa s for non- included or outdated software (nodejs and sublime text spring to mind).
  On windows, you grab most of it off ninite.com in one installer, and a couple of individual installers of their websites. Office 2013 is actually really quick to stream install, I'm quite impressed - even if office itself is basically the same mishmash pile of mank as usual.
  
  --
  Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
48. Re:Two statements: by Barsteward · 2012-09-13 18:44 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, you can. Insert an opensuse install disk and reboot.
  
  --
  "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
49. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 18:57 · Score: 0
  
  I didn't create the recovery disks and getting the SATA drivers for a new computer into the windows install is a nightmare. Lucky I could still use it to get on the internet via Ubuntu live.
50. Re:Two statements: by couchslug · 2012-09-13 20:29 · Score: 2
  
  Here's the "fix", takes about two minutes.
  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed
  
  --
  "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
51. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 20:34 · Score: 0
  
  apt-get remove unity; apt-get install xfce
  If that takes more than an hour, your internet connection must be very slow.
  Now, how to do the same for Windows? Microsoft has been trying to fix it at least since Windows 98, and they have come a long way, but even running Windows 7, it's still terribly slow. I can probably boot my Linux machines, install updates, and have it shut down again faster than Windows 7 will finish booting (including the time from Logon screen, until the system becomes usable).
52. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 21:33 · Score: 0
  
  Uhh that's exactly true. Making my own food is not worth it either.
53. Re:Two statements: by Ginger+Unicorn · 2012-09-13 21:51 · Score: 2
  
  No, but the people who find that unity does what they want don't have to spend $120 on windows in order to have a GUI on their PC.
  Also, unless you have a slow internet connection or PC I'm pretty sure you can install gnome in less than an hour - and most people don't get paid $120 an hour. To the vast majority of people $120 is at least a day's work, and more than their entire week's food budget.
  
  --
  (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
54. Re:Two statements: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 22:58 · Score: 0
  
  Windows 8 installs and sets up very quickly. (Not for long though once it is released that will almost certainly change).
55. Re:Two statements: by Caetel · 2012-09-14 02:31 · Score: 1
  
  99% of users have the OS bundled with their PC and don't see the cost of Windows, so it isn't a factor for them. Even if they did, the cost of an OEM licence to HP/Dell/etc is less than $50, not $120.
Ubuntu Unity by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

Im sorry, but can we finally admit that Unity is a mistake. I tried (REALLY TRIED) to like unity. Its not that bad after all, but it was a step BACKWARDS. Couple that with all of the GNOME devs going Batsh**t crazy and creating GNOME3 and we have a problem. KDE is where I live now, but I miss my GNOME2. For me this is just one more nail in the coffin of Unity. Dont get me wrong though, I can see myself going to Unity in a few years, but that is a LOOOONG time as far as Linux is concerned. There are just too many issues with it right now.
1. Re:Ubuntu Unity by MrEricSir · 2012-09-13 05:25 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Dont get me wrong though, I can see myself going to Unity in a few years, but that is a LOOOONG time as far as Linux is concerned. There are just too many issues with it right now.
  Don't worry, by the time Unity's stability begins to materialize, they'll have lost interest and moved on to something else. Such is the way of the Linux desktop.
  
  --
  There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
2. Re:Ubuntu Unity by MMC+Monster · 2012-09-13 05:42 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I agree about Unity. It sucks rocks, and I downgraded to an earlier version of Ubuntu for a while.
  HOWEVER, you may want to give Linux Mint 13 with the Cinnamon desktop. They basically take Gnome and add their own desktop to it. As a bonus, it's built off of Ubuntu and you can use all the Ubuntu repositories with it.
  So you get the bug fixes associated with the latest Gnome, the repositories of Ubuntu, the solidness of Linux, and the clean interface of Cinnamon.
  Been using it about a month and quite happy so far.
  
  --
  Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
3. Re:Ubuntu Unity by lexluther · 2012-09-13 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  I agree with this. very sad the fracture into Unity and Gnome3. I run 12.04 with gnome2 - not optimal, but comfortable, and not *that* buggy.
4. Re:Ubuntu Unity by X0563511 · 2012-09-13 05:59 · Score: 2
  
  Sounds like MATE is what you want/need.
  Shame you didn't log in, as you're probably never going to come back and find this, are you?
  
  --
  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
5. Re:Ubuntu Unity by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  err having been a bit of a lapsed believer recently why is KDE considered a heresy these days? I allways prefered it to Gnomw.
  Unclean, Unclean!
6. Re:Ubuntu Unity by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:25 · Score: 0
  
  Well as someone who actually has old hardware and unaccelerated video: Because it was the first one to suck when KDE 4 came out and required 3d acceleration to do anything at a reasonable rate (OGL2.1+ cards BTW, which the system I was running at the time couldn't recieve better than a OGL1.4 card, hence no XComposite and no accelerated desktop). Additionally the initial KDE4 release SUCKED usability-wise, yet every distro packaged it by default in that release. That particular computer was running SuSE (THE KDE distro. Although I'd been running it as a console-server prior to that install).
  Long story short, I put WindowMaker and XFCE on it and it went back to being smooth. Honestly for the non-newbie linux user, why the hell do you need a desktop enviroment? I'm faster doing file management from the console, and it's quite handy when an app isn't executing to actually find out what it's spitting out on the console, rather than going 'click click click click... it's still not open...'
  But judging by all the stupid changes being made to both kernel and appspace nowadays I don't think I'm the intended audience anymore.
7. Re:Ubuntu Unity by vurian · 2012-09-13 06:34 · Score: 1
  
  No, it didn't require anything like that, not even from the very beginning. You were always free to choose either opengl desktop effects, xrender desktop effects, and no desktop effects, and if kwin determined your gpu couldn't handle desktop effects from what the gpu advertised, it would disable desktop effects. And you would have a perfectly functional, fast, usable and beautiful desktop environment. Of course, some gpu's lied about their abilities in unspecified ways. But you can hardly blame kwin for that.
8. Re:Ubuntu Unity by horza · 2012-09-13 06:53 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I appear to switch too early ahead of the curve. I couldn't stand Gnome2 so switched to KDE 4.0, even though I knew it was a buggy mess. By the time it got to 4.2 it was pleasant to use. I bought a new PC and decided I may as well install the relatively new Unity along side just for fun... and have been using it ever since. I do appreciate KDE but I just find Unity nicer to use. I find KDE a little too much like Windows, but other than than they are both very pleasant and productive. Both have file managers that suck though (Nautilus and Dolphin). Not sure why XFCE went with Thunar instead of taking ROX, come to think of it.
  Phillip.
  
  --
  Property for sale in Nice, France
9. Re:Ubuntu Unity by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:57 · Score: 0
  
  You can keep using GNOME 2, you do not even have to fork it either for that to happens, you know you can keep sending patch mainstream if you find a bug, heck you could even ask for maintainership!! I do not like MATE, I mean I do like mate (drink every day), I just not like people that forks a huge project like GNOME do a string replace (BTW you cant replace copyrights) and call it its own and did not even ask to become the new maintainer.
10. Re:Ubuntu Unity by couchslug · 2012-09-13 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  So shitcan Unity. I gave it the couple of hours it might have deserved, then found this handy info:
  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed
  
  --
  "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
11. Re:Ubuntu Unity by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 08:41 · Score: 0
  
  KDE saves resources and cuts corners with it's awful font rendering and ugly controls
12. Re:Ubuntu Unity by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-13 09:40 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Alternatively, if you find that Ubuntu repos are more bullshit than they're helpful, go for LMDE - vanilla Debian with Cinnamon on top out of the box.
13. Re:Ubuntu Unity by couchslug · 2012-09-13 14:22 · Score: 1
  
  You DO NOT NEED TO SWITCH DISTROS to change UI.
  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed
  
  --
  "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
14. Re:Ubuntu Unity by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 16:09 · Score: 0
  
  Cinnamon is hideous and ugly.
  Unity is by far _the nicest_ desktop out there. 100x better than disasterous OS X applefanboy crapos.
15. Re:Ubuntu Unity by schaiba · 2012-09-14 01:32 · Score: 1
  
  So shitcan Unity. I gave it the couple of hours it might have deserved, then found this handy info:
  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed
  Stop posting the same link over and over again. We get it, really.
16. Re:Ubuntu Unity by TemporalBeing · 2012-09-14 04:31 · Score: 1
  
  Dont get me wrong though, I can see myself going to Unity in a few years, but that is a LOOOONG time as far as Linux is concerned. There are just too many issues with it right now.
  Don't worry, by the time Unity's stability begins to materialize, they'll have lost interest and moved on to something else. Such is the way of the Linux desktop.
  So about the same time that GNU delivers HURD?
  
  --
  Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
how to correct it immediately by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

may take longer than one Ubuntu cycle to correct.
Actually you can correct it immediately, by using the KDE desktop. Plus, you get a richly featured desktop that isn't trying to cater to the Facebook crowd.
1. Re:how to correct it immediately by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:16 · Score: 0
  
  Too bad everything is in the wrong fucking place and it takes 5 times longer to get anything done when you have to go hit the forums to figure out the simplest thing. Fail.
2. Re:how to correct it immediately by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:35 · Score: 0
  
  Wrong place?
  I've been using KDE for a while now.
  Everything is where I expect it to be, and nicely organized / easy to find.
  Unity messes things up making you have to search for everything. The browsing feature is completely unuseable and crap.
3. Re:how to correct it immediately by Metal_Militia · 2012-09-13 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  define "wrong fucking place" please.
4. Re:how to correct it immediately by BitZtream · 2012-09-13 05:59 · Score: 0
  
  Any place but where I intuitively expect it to be. For 'the definition of wrong place' please use Gimp for approximately half a second and you'll understand the definition perfectly.
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
5. Re:how to correct it immediately by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:00 · Score: 0
  
  [Citation needed]
6. Re:how to correct it immediately by X0563511 · 2012-09-13 06:02 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Works fine for me, since my own learning was not so specific that I can't function without things being static.
  I can understand if maybe you have a learning disability, but if you don't you have nobody to blame but yourself.
  Just because JASC or Photoshop or Paint.NET or whatever put it there, doesn't mean it's the best place to put it (if there is even such a thing).
  
  --
  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
7. Re:how to correct it immediately by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:06 · Score: 0
  
  desktop folder is a stupid widget
8. Re:how to correct it immediately by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:10 · Score: 0
  
  For 'the definition of wrong place' please use Gimp for approximately half a second and you'll understand the definition perfectly.
  So... "in a quite usable place" is your definition of "wrong place"? Huh. Well, if that's how you define it, more power to you, I guess, but now I can understand your communication problems with others.
9. Re:how to correct it immediately by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:27 · Score: 0
  
  Too bad everything is in the wrong fucking place
  KDE is probably the most flexible desktop out there for configuring it exactly how you want it to be.
  The defaults are almost right for me, except that Dolphin isn't as good as Konq as a filesystem explorer, but that's trivial to configure too.
10. Re:how to correct it immediately by Noughmad · 2012-09-13 06:36 · Score: 1
  
  So? It's still in the exact same spot where desktop icons are on every other OS with a desktop. If the fact that you can add other things there scares you, maybe you should go back to Windows 95.
  
  --
  PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
11. Re:how to correct it immediately by egr · 2012-09-13 07:46 · Score: 2
  
  KDE is probably the most flexible desktop out there for configuring it exactly how you want it to be.
  The defaults are almost right for me, except that Dolphin isn't as good as Konq as a filesystem explorer, but that's trivial to configure too.
  I agree. I am an ex Gnome user. However with each major release they removed more and more configuration options. I have tried several GTK-based window managers after my disappointment with Gnome 3, but they all felt like a downgrade. I decided to give KDE a try and I never looked back since then. Customization is endless. It is amazing how you can configure every window to look and behave in any way you want. The desktop is also very snappy, and krunner is a nice tool for starting and finding things in a few keystrokes.
  As for the file manager I still cannot find a suitable replacement for Midnight Commander. There is still seem not to be any comparable (feature rich, snappy) alternatives to the Windows' Total Commander.
12. Re:how to correct it immediately by ifiwereasculptor · 2012-09-13 07:47 · Score: 0
  
  Ears, nostrils, bellybutton, eye sockets. Everything else is fair game.
13. Re:how to correct it immediately by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 09:23 · Score: 0
  
  Because widgets are stupid and useless even microsoft admits it and removed them from windows 8
14. Re:how to correct it immediately by HatofPig · 2012-09-13 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  1) Right-click desktop, select "Desktop Settings"
  2) Open drop-down box, change default desktop to "Folder View"
  
  And now your desktop folder is your whole desktop again, like Windows 95 or KDE 3. Tada! Or do you think "Desktop Settings" is the wrong place for this option?
  
  --
  Silicon & Charybdis McLuhan Kildall Papert Kay
15. Re:how to correct it immediately by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 13:49 · Score: 0
  
  That's the first thing I upon installing KDE
Who likes Unity ? by 1s44c · 2012-09-13 05:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

I hate Unity.
Everyone on Slashdot seems to hate Unity.
The rest of the Internet seems to hate Unity too.
Is there anyone that actually likes Unity? Or are Canonical just trying to piss everyone off?
1. Re:Who likes Unity ? by Ingenium13 · 2012-09-13 05:37 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I refused to update for the longest time when Ubuntu switched to Unity, but then I got a new laptop and figured I'd give it a shot first. I was pretty set of just using Mint but really wanted to give Unity a try before switching. I was surprised that I actually sort of liked it, especially once I learned the keyboard shortcuts. My task bar always got cluttered with lots of windows in Gnome 2, and their order wasn't consistent which was a minor annoyance. Realistically, Unity feels a lot like Windows 7 to me (though I've only used Windows 7 briefly on other people's machines, I really liked the UI), and it got rid of all the clutter. I like that Gnome Do is essentially integrated into Unity, and there are some other nice features as well.
  That said, I haven't seriously tried Gnome 3 yet. I installed it and loaded it up, and then did a wtf when I couldn't really figure out how to use it and wondered why it was so ugly before switching back to Unity. It felt like a very incomplete product. I've since read that you need to use a lot of add ons (or whatever the correct term for them is) to make it more usable, but at this point it's not worth the investment in time when Unity works well enough for me.
2. Re:Who likes Unity ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  I like Unity but then again, I gave up on Linux and moved to OSX. Unity is what gave me the desire to move on.
3. Re:Who likes Unity ? by valros · 2012-09-13 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  I actually find Unity quite usable. I find its better suited to my desktop where I have two monitors but regardless of the number of screens I usually just maximize my main applications across multiple workspaces. This was also the general way I arranged windows prior to Unity, so all Unity did was give me a dock and more screen space, which as a minimalist I am thankful for. Granted some of the default settings are not in the best interest of usability, for each new install it takes me a while to tweak compiz to my liking.
4. Re:Who likes Unity ? by arkhan_jg · 2012-09-13 06:11 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Iss there anyone that actually likes Unity? Or are Canonical just trying to piss everyone off?
  Problem is, lots of people hate GNOME 3 too. And KDE has always been divisive, even though the original licence problems have long been resolved. But then, they broke KDE in the transition to KDE4, and from I've seen recently, it's still buggy as f**k and has been for years.
  So that leaves, in no particular order;
  1) GNOME 2. Abandoned. Resurrected as cinammon in the mint ubuntu fork, but still niche. And dear god, the launch bar is TEENY.
  2) GNOME 3 /Gnome-shell. Hated by many, the 'let's take away all the stuff people liked' edition, complete with all the options to change virtually anything removed.
  3) Unity. Jeez, GNOME 3 really does suck. Let's do something else altogether! Hmm, how about a sideways touch friendly mounted springy dock, and all the apps need to be modified so their window options get merged into the top bar, until they don't.
  4) KDE4. Still buggy as f**k and options up to the eyeballs. And I'm struggling to think of a mainstream distro that really backs it; maybe openSUSE, but they kinda went agnostic with the whole Novell thing, and switched to GNOME.
  5) XfCE. OK, fine. It's lightweight, it's simple. But some of us want a GUI shell that does more than just be a holder for a bunch of terminal windows. And doesn't look like it's still the year 2000.
  So you have the most popular distro Ubuntu with a homegrown shell that's weird and slow, GNOME seem to have forgotten they actually had a userbase before they went off the deep end, KDE are bobbling around trying to work out how to make it not crash, and the remaining desktops are spraying off into a bunch of niche areas.
  I'm currently trying to work out what distro & shell to use on my home quiet/dev rig as I'm sick of bugfixing the hackintosh OSX that's on there at the moment.
  And right now, they ALL suck.
  
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5. Re:Who likes Unity ? by c · 2012-09-13 06:21 · Score: 2
  
  > Is there anyone that actually likes Unity?
  I can't say I like it, but I don't hate it. I'm not even sure "like" is a word that applies to a desktop. If I'm noticing the desktop at all enough to like it, then there's something wrong... you're supposed to be using a computer for the applications, not the desktop.
  As a small screen/netbook UI, it's minimalist and generally pretty good. I've had it on my netbook since the UNR days and I can't really complain.
  As a general workstation desktop, 12.04 has fixed the worst annoyances (multi-head gliches, mostly) to the point that it doesn't really get in my way. 11.10 was not a good release and if that's where you first encountered it, I don't blame you for hating it.
  
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6. Re:Who likes Unity ? by fa2k · 2012-09-13 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  Don't forget GNOME 3 Fallback Mode! I got a new computer at work which runs Fedora and GNOME 3 in fallback mode and it's surprisingly good. The task switcher is the good simple one which switches between windows, and everything else is almost where it should be. It's what should have become GNOME 3 IMHO.
7. Re:Who likes Unity ? by cheesybagel · 2012-09-13 07:05 · Score: 1
  
  Unity is less bad than Windows 8. It has been getting less annoying as it gets worked on. But I still miss GNOME 2
8. Re:Who likes Unity ? by Grishnakh · 2012-09-13 07:42 · Score: 2
  
  I don't know what you're talking about with KDE and bugginess. It works just fine for me on Linux Mint 12 KDE (LM13KDE is even better, but I haven't installed that yet on the laptop I'm typing this on at the moment). It's perfectly stable.
  Yes, the versions before around 4.6 had problems (the ones before 4.4 were seriously buggy), but that's old news. Get something with 4.8 or 4.9 or better and it's fine. The latest Linux Mint KDE version is excellent.
9. Re:Who likes Unity ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 08:19 · Score: 0
  
  My task bar always got cluttered with lots of windows in Gnome 2, and their order wasn't consistent which was a minor annoyance.
  My solution, as a power user: I double the height of my task bar, thus allowing two rows of tasks in it. You can do that in Gnome 2/ MATE.
  Also, at least in MATE, you can simply click on a task in the task bar and drag it to another position in the bar!
  The Gnome 2/ MATE desktop is full of little details like the above two, which is why it is still the most productive place for me to work.
10. Re:Who likes Unity ? by mcgrew · 2012-09-13 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  I don't hate Unity. Maybe I would if I ever actually tried it, but I'm happy with kde. Windows, now, I hate Windows, especially since they upgraded Office to that god damned ribbon, I can't figure out SHIT in that interface.
  I'll be glad when I retire, because I just hate MS products. I keep wondering where the myth of Windows useability comes from? KDE is far more useable than any flavor of Windows I've tried. When kde gets upgraded, you get more functionality but only have to learn to use new features, not the whole damned program. MS upgrades seem to offer little added functionality, they just change the interface.
  This year's Ford -- now with less horsepower and the brake and throttle are reversed from last year's model! That's Microsoft.
  If an MS employee wrote Unity, I hate it.
  
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11. Re:Who likes Unity ? by SoftwareArtist · 2012-09-13 08:28 · Score: 1
  
  Can someone explain to me why I'm supposed to hate Unity? I find it a clean, well designed UI. It was kind of glitchy in 11.10, but most of those problems got fixed in 12.04. So what is supposed to be so awful about it?
  
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12. Re:Who likes Unity ? by antdude · 2012-09-13 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  My cyberfriend likes Unity. He didn't think it was bad. :O
  
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13. Re:Who likes Unity ? by couchslug · 2012-09-13 08:34 · Score: 1
  
  "Is there anyone that actually likes Unity?"
  Not me, but apparently not enough Slashdotters know how easy it is to get rid of it:
  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed
  
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14. Re:Who likes Unity ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 08:34 · Score: 0
  
  I hate Unity.
  Everyone on Slashdot seems to hate Unity.
  The rest of the Internet seems to hate Unity too.
  Is there anyone that actually likes Unity? Or are Canonical just trying to piss everyone off?
  Well, I do. I actually like it a lot. I find it difficult to describe why, but to me it feels a lot more comfortable than the other desktop UI's I've used (Gnome 2 and 3, KDE, various versions of Windows).
  I also don't really get why everyone gets so worked up about Unity: if you don't like it, it takes relatively little effort to switch to something else. What's the big deal?
15. Re:Who likes Unity ? by kayoshiii · 2012-09-13 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  I actually don't mind unity. The Caveat here is that I for various reasons I run KDE most of the time myself... It just so happens that my unity works quite similarly to my KDE setup. I have however been happier putting non expert users in front of unity than anything else (after I set up the tools they want to use)
16. Re:Who likes Unity ? by ray_field · 2012-09-13 12:45 · Score: 1
  
  Unity is not just tolerable, it's awesome. 1) the first iterations of it were disastrous. and I'm willing to wager that the disaffection of ALMOST EVERY SINGLE disenchanted power user is traceable to the fact that there was no simple gui (or even CLI-ish) way to create a launcher -- no matter how many times you right-clicked on the desktop, it weirdly just didn't seem possible. no more. 2) it really isn't that different from Gnome 2. if you want all yer proggies in nested menus, it takes about ten seconds to add to the panel. 3) if you have a netbook, it basically gives you about twenty percent more screen real estate. 4) HUD and lenses are really what make it great. & I seriously mean, great. basically these command-lines yer gooeys.
17. Re:Who likes Unity ? by Ambient+Sheep · 2012-09-13 13:47 · Score: 1
  
  > Is there anyone that actually likes Unity? Or are Canonical just trying to piss everyone off?
  In my darker moments I do sometimes wonder if a certain very large software company didn't pay off someone at Canonical to make the switch, thus helping to neuter the Linux desktop threat by ruining its most successful distribution and fracturing the Linux desktop community. Very cunning move, if so.
18. Re:Who likes Unity ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 16:42 · Score: 0
  
  and from I've seen recently, it's still buggy as f**k and has been for years
  Which was the point a which I stopped reading your post.
19. Re:Who likes Unity ? by arkhan_jg · 2012-09-13 18:00 · Score: 1
  
  I had konqueror crash in a live CD while I was testing it; a 4.8 version, I think. KDE has a bad reputation for crash bugs, and pretending it doesn't is just the same blinkered behaviour the GNOME devs used to have. I loved KDE - I used it from 2.0 up to 3.5. 4.0 was a disaster of a release, and 4.2 wasn't much better, which was about the time I gave up on KDE altogether.
  
  --
  Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
20. Re:Who likes Unity ? by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-13 22:02 · Score: 1
  
  Is there anyone that actually likes Unity?
  I like Unity, but I prefer KDE.
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
21. Re:Who likes Unity ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 22:54 · Score: 0
  
  I'm looking to upgrade from Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (which I'm very happy with, Gnome 2 working nicely).
  I've been evaluating Mint/MATE, Mint/Cinnamon and Ubuntu/Unity (all 12.04 or equivalent LTS versions). Initially I was fairly certain I'd go with MATE or Cinnamon and was just hovering between the two; now I've actually given Unity a fair go, I'm starting to think I quite like it, and that the things I don't like about it aren't as important as I thought they were...
  Anyhow, no hurry, I'll give it another couple of months and maybe throw KDE into the mix...
22. Re:Who likes Unity ? by plasticsquirrel · 2012-09-14 00:13 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, I actually love Unity in 12.04. Before 12.04. it was unusable on my netbook, so I switched to Gnome 3, and I really enjoyed the new changes there too. I'm a long-time Linux user (~15 years), much of that time using Slackware and Debian, so I'm not exactly some kid who is only used to the "Windows way." Part of the reason I like these new interfaces is because they are VERY different from the old Windows 95 copycat desktop environments. They put more emphasis on ensuring that the programs you use are always close by. Unity has some awesome keyboard shortcuts too. Of course, that takes a little training and time to get used to, though. I consider Unity now to be much more advanced than Gnome 2 ever was, though.
  
  By the way, when I showed the 12.04 Unity interface to a few other Gnome 2 users still running Ubuntu (simple PC end users), they were blown away when they saw Super+S and the other cool shortcuts, and wanted me to upgrade them immediately. Slashdot is still the place for holdouts to gripe about Unity, though, because previously (in older versions of Ubuntu) it was still under heavy development. Slashdot is always like that, giving way to strong opinions (KDE users in this thread apparently -- still like a broken record).
  
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Indeed slow. by cpu6502 · 2012-09-13 05:18 · Score: 1

Tried to install the latest ubuntu on a 733 MHz laptop, and it was slow as snails. Ended-up switching to LXDE (lubuntu) which runs fine.

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1. Re:Indeed slow. by 1s44c · 2012-09-13 05:26 · Score: 2
  
  Tried to install the latest ubuntu on a 733 MHz laptop, and it was slow as snails. Ended-up switching to LXDE (lubuntu) which runs fine.
  Even on high end hardware I'd use LXDE, all the extra bloat in KDE and GNOME serves no purpose but to waste memory and CPU cycles and the extra graphical fluff is just pointlessly distracting.
2. Re:Indeed slow. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:36 · Score: 0
  
  733 MHz? We send those to recycling. Too slow even for Office 2010. You're trying to use an X Manager with all the bells and whistles. This isn't a difficult concept.
  
  Man up and get a real computer with a chip faster than my tablet. Or quit whining. Either would work for me.
3. Re:Indeed slow. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:12 · Score: 1
  
  Man up and get a real computer with a chip faster than my tablet.
  Translation "I have money and you dont but you should figure out a way to spend money you do not want to just so you can run some of the coolz graphics".
  Not everyone has money to buy an ipad and a desktop and a laptop. Some people use what they get.
4. Re:Indeed slow. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:30 · Score: 0
  
  And some of us have affection towards our old hardware, and believe that just because you can get a new fiberglass moulded handle hammer doesn't mean that one you got for your first carpentry job with the old worn wooden handle that you can (and have) hammered while blindfolded should be discarded like so much useless scrap just because it's not 'the new thing'.
  Or maybe you really like your old videogames and still have some that just aren't emulated properly on modern hardware (all the late DOS 3d accelerated games for instance.)
5. Re:Indeed slow. by MonsterTrimble · 2012-09-13 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  I'm running a 2002-era 1.4 GHz celeron & 512 MB of RAM with Peppermint 3 and it's still pretty slow. When I open up Chromium, Thunderbird & Pidgin at the same time I just walk away to go get a coffee. It MIGHT be done when I get back. How much RAM do you have in that thing?
  
  --
  I call it 'The Aristocrats'
6. Re:Indeed slow. by symbolset · 2012-09-13 07:25 · Score: 1
  
  The problem with a machine that old isn't performance or compatibility. At that point it's past the service life of its capacitors and prone to fail.
  
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7. Re:Indeed slow. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 07:36 · Score: 0
  
  Some people use what they get.
  Which is fine. We're not harping on cpu6502 for being a cheapskate (yes, cheapskate. They've admitted to making roughly $150k per year, so they are by no means poor).
  What gets to us is how they complain about software written with today's hardware in mind running slow on hardware that is 10+ years old. Yeah, no shit. Next they'll be complaining about how bears crap in the woods or some other "that's by design you moron" thing.
8. Re:Indeed slow. by Anne+Thwacks · 2012-09-13 07:45 · Score: 2
  
  And some of the older hardware was built to very high standards. The new stuff falls to bits before you get it home.
  (Lenovo T43 user)
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
9. Re:Indeed slow. by jedidiah · 2012-09-13 07:58 · Score: 2
  
  One of my dirt cheap ION net tops will run circles around the kind of machine you are trying to cling to. Some times it's just time to let go.
  You are WAY PAST the dirt cheap option at this point.
  My machine 10 years ago wasn't even that slow and I'm a cheap bastard.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
10. Re:Indeed slow. by jedidiah · 2012-09-13 08:00 · Score: 1
  
  ...more than 10 years old.
  A 733Mhz machine was a relic even 10 years ago. You might as well pine for a 486 while you're at it.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
11. Re:Indeed slow. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 10:58 · Score: 0
  
  Tried to install the latest ubuntu on a 733 MHz laptop, and it was slow as snails. Ended-up switching to LXDE (lubuntu) which runs fine.
  I tried to install the latest Ubuntu on my Heathkit H8, but the README did not even fit into my 4kB of memory. I ended up switching to CP/M which runs fine.
12. Re:Indeed slow. by cpu6502 · 2012-09-14 04:36 · Score: 1
  
  None of the newer machines come with dialup modems built-in. That's pretty crucial when you're in a hotel that has nothing but a phone line.
  
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use kubuntu instead by galaad2 · 2012-09-13 05:18 · Score: 3, Interesting

well, i figured it would be some problem with the graphics drivers and that's why i switched to using the kubuntu 12.04 LTS dvd instead of the normal ubuntu/unity one, i've been having weird issues with unity lately (invisble mouse cursor and ignored keyboard input on a fujitsu siemens Amilo La1703 notebook - but KDE works perfectly)
http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu/download
( for those that fell recently into the linux soup and don't know what this is, this is practically the same thing as ubuntu 12.04 LTS but with the KDE interface as default instead of unity. )

--
root@127.0.0.1
LXDE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:19 · Score: 0

So what I got from that article is that lxde is the best desktop environments except for the one(KDE) where you turn off an apparently significant portion to squeeze out more performance? And lxde is easily the least mature of the bunch with a goal of low resource usage so I only see it getting better.
Too many versions by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:20 · Score: 0, Redundant

that's the problem with Linux. Choice is nice for the users, but for companies, this is a nightmare as they have to make a different version for each OS, since not everyone know how to compile the source, not to mention compatibility with the OS itself.
1. Re:Too many versions by Grishnakh · 2012-09-13 07:46 · Score: 1
  
  What's the alternative? Just shut down all the other projects, and everyone has to use Gnome3? Then the Linux desktop really will be dead, dead, dead because Gnome3 is a steaming turd. The whole reason there's alternative desktops is because no one can agree on how a desktop should be.
  If you think the proprietary stuff is any better, I invite you to look at Windows 8/Metro. No one is excited by that, but there, your only choice is to stick with Win7 for as long as you can. It's not like you can fork the Win7 UI and install it on Win8. You're stuck with whatever crap MS decides you should use, whether you like it or not.
Solution: by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:22 · Score: 0, Troll

no DE + minimal WM.
use lxde? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:22 · Score: 1

Looked like LXDE came out on top as the best all around performer to me not KDE.
1. Re:use lxde? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:38 · Score: 0
  
  I didn't see LXDE in the test results.
It's slow anyway by jones_supa · 2012-09-13 05:23 · Score: 1

While I actually like Unity, it's still runs damn slow in general. It feels like there's some bad engineering going on there. Especially noticeable on netbook hardware, where Windows 7 runs OK and Aero is smooth, but Unity lags horribly even with basic tasks.
1. Re:It's slow anyway by eddy+the+lip · 2012-09-13 10:53 · Score: 1
  
  Nothing quantitative to back it up, but it feels like it's getting slower. I've been using it since the introduction, and while there were things I didn't like about it in 11.x, as of 12.04 I like it. Didn't quite realize how much I liked it until I switched to XFCE (which is good - not taking anything away from them). I miss the dash and the default way of accessing anything being through search. Forgot how much I hated digging through menus. I'm running underpowered hardware right now, but when I upgrade I'll switch back in a heartbeat.
  
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Straw Man by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:24 · Score: 0

is bogus.
How can the desktop be slow? by Animats · 2012-09-13 05:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

What are they doing wrong that results in a slow desktop? Re-rendering all text from HTML on every frame cycle of a drag? The graphics power available in modern GPUs has orders of magnitude more power than needed to manipulate a set of flat windows and icons.
1. Re:How can the desktop be slow? by TheRealMindChild · 2012-09-13 08:50 · Score: 1
  
  Because it is built on "services" and "platforms", built on libraries, built on libraries, ...
  
  A desktop is more than an X Window manager anymore
  
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  "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
2. Re:How can the desktop be slow? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 20:08 · Score: 0
  
  The abstraction layers shouldn't matter that much for a system where most of the elements do not need to be updated consistently. A GUI system needs to update only a few times per second in a typical use case, so even if you add a few hundred calls per window update, the effect should still be minimal on modern hardware.
Re:Who likes Unity ? I do as of 12.04 by LeDopore · 2012-09-13 05:27 · Score: 5, Informative

I am on Slashdot and I do not hate Unity as of 12.04.
I could not stand the Unity that came with 11.10 - I run a lot of MATLAB, and there was no functional way to switch between multiple figures. People would moan and complain about Unity taking a few more clicks or whatever; for me it was actually impossible for me to switch between windows as needed on 11.10, try as I might. I was fearing a forced switch to Unity, since Ubuntu wouldn't be an option for me anymore.
Unity on 12.04 is a completely different story. While I still don't love its window-switching behavior, the super-W feature of displaying all windows is wonderful.
Unity might not be as polished as KDE 3.5 yet, but 12.04 was so much better than 11.10 that I'm willing to see where Canonical's headed.

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That's okay. by Culture20 · 2012-09-13 05:31 · Score: 1

No one uses unity anyway.
Desktop linux, not linux by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 05:49 · Score: 4, Insightful

You keep saying "linux" when you really mean "desktop linux". Two points on that:
1. Linux is an entire world of computing, and desktop linux is actually a small part of that world. Linux is first a multi-user unix-like OS, and second everything else. Since when has a multi-user unix-like OS excelled at being a consumer-oriented desktop system? Never. They excell at being workstations and servers, and require a competant admin. That's just the reality of it, so why do you think it needs to be changed?
2. You (and others) keep implying that desktop linux is worthless ("period"), when people like me have been using it for 15 years and wouldn't even consider switching to a consumer OS. What you really mean is that it doesn't hold up as a consumer-oriented OS, and I'll be the first to admit that you're right. CONGRATULATIONS.
1. Re:Desktop linux, not linux by Kwpolska · 2012-09-13 06:06 · Score: 1
  
  *cough* OS X *cough*
2. Re:Desktop linux, not linux by MrHanky · 2012-09-13 06:11 · Score: 2
  
  ... which is no more competitive with Windows 7's graphics performance than Linux is. In fact less so with nvidia.
3. Re:Desktop linux, not linux by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2012-09-13 07:59 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Summary: "The common complaint about Linux really isn't a valid complaint if you argue using pedanticism and moving goal posts!"
  I've never actually seen a Linux Apologist before.
  
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4. Re:Desktop linux, not linux by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 11:17 · Score: 0
  
  I feel the same way as point number two. Been using and loving Desktop Linux for around 10-years, but I've accepted the hassles usually around new hardware.
5. Re:Desktop linux, not linux by equex · 2012-09-13 15:51 · Score: 1
  
  Please stop that right now. You know goddamned well that nobody questions Linux as long as it doesn't involve a sound or graphics driver.
  
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6. Re:Desktop linux, not linux by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 22:37 · Score: 0
  
  You should look in the mirror. You've seen that idiot before.
7. Re:Desktop linux, not linux by Kwpolska · 2012-09-14 03:01 · Score: 1
  
  There was a quotation here that was lost.
  
  Since when has a multi-user unix-like OS excelled at being a consumer-oriented desktop system? Never.
No DirectX by Dunge · 2012-09-13 05:59 · Score: 0

Can't be Windows competitive without DirectX
VALVe saves the day.. ? by Scot+Seese · 2012-09-13 06:07 · Score: 1

.. Isn't VALVe Software (Half-Life, Portal, Team Fortress franchises) working on a heavily optimized Steam client and OpenGL improvements for Ubuntu?
What prevents users from simply loading Steam onto their Ubuntu PCs along with all the tweaked OpenGL drivers and just rocking that instead of the default drivers?
HELP US GABEN, YOU'RE OUR ONLY HOPE!

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1. Re:VALVe saves the day.. ? by MostAwesomeDude · 2012-09-13 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know why you think that Valve will keep their modified drivers to themselves. Hint: You can't mix 'n' match acceleration drivers between your desktop and your applications except under extremely controlled conditions.
  
  --
  ~ C.
File Manager Re:Indeed slow. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:35 · Score: 0

Here here. For browsing and minor activity the LXDE File Manager is a little weak, but I'll accept a slightly weaker file manager as a trade off against all the other issues I have with Gnome & KDE's bloat.
may take longer than one Ubuntu cycle to correct? by tippe · 2012-09-13 06:39 · Score: 2

whatchu talkin bout Spilsbury?

sudo apt-get install kde-standard
A few minutes later, problem solved. Longer than one Ubuntu cycle... what a joke...
I still use GNOME3, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:40 · Score: 0

It's gotten noticably slower, and it gets even worse the more windows I have open. Apparently a $300+ GPU (Geforce 580GTX) is just not enough anymore to drive two monitors. :| It's even worse with my RadeonHD 5850, but I guess the open-source drivers still have some catching up to do with the propietary ones (which I haven't tried in a long time due to it never working with the X.org and kernel version I'm running). NVIDIA's driver now supports xrandr for managing multiple displays and that too has caused a number of regressions like my desktop dissappearing when I switch from single to multiple monitors. That's in addition to the bugs I've been having to deal with ever since GNOME3 was released which causes redrawing issues in xterm, vim and a number of other apps which has been driving me crazy and hasn't been fixed for around 6 months now.
That combined with the constant issues with sound ever since the introduction of PulseAudio has made me a very frustrated Linux user, and I am seriously considering just buying a Mac for my POSIX needs. I do get that some of these pains are neccesary to improve certain subsytems (PulseAudio seems nice, if it would just work and if older ALSA apps didn't trip up with it all the time), but I just really wish things could become stable again.
Huh. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 06:45 · Score: 0

LXDE and Xfce are as performant as uglified KDE, yet KDE is still the clear winner. No bias there at all, huh? And of course, everyone focuses on the tragedy of the worst one being the worst, because it's Canonical's broken choice.
And people wonder why those who opt for a working, less bloated solution on Linux are so sarcastic and hard-bitten. Surely it's nothing to do with the fact that only the most visible options are paid lip service on a fan project that's supposed to be all about choice?
Re:Open source == FAIL by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 07:16 · Score: 0

lets count... upgrade apple and linux...
i used my pc for over 5 years now with upgrades non stop.
every year i spend around 200-300 euro for PARTS ONLY. 250x5 = 1250 euro over course of 5 years. lets make it fun, 400 euros ayear for low tyre gaming machine. 400 a year, 2000 all together.
with mac, €1,676.00 euro lets say once evry 1.5 year roughly 5590
So only 3590 euro difference. Lets add a few hundred bucks for applications that are otherwise free in Linux and sheer fun of being able to mess with OS and get good experience. i am not saying anything about performance, since mac compared to linux sucks donkey balls, there is no way to optimize anythingin mac, in linux i compile with gnetoo all applications for my specific processor and gpu, not to mention with only features i need.
and dont start me on your old mom who doesnt have knowledge on linux. she doesnt have knowledge on mac either. one time buy of laptop for 300 euro that will do ALL my parents ever need vs 1,099.00 euro... sorta not equal anyway.
think cheap, be cheap skate, love free as in beer!
In that case... by s13g3 · 2012-09-13 07:17 · Score: 2

If you're a *nix user of any skill or experience and running Ubuntu who is genuinely concerned about performance and stability, you should probably be running Debian anyway and pointing to the Ubuntu repos for anything that might be missing or too old for your liking.

--
"Inveniemus Viam Aut Faciemus" 'We will find a way... Or we will make one!' --Hannibal of Carthage
1. Re:In that case... by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-13 21:58 · Score: 1
  
  If you're a *nix user of any skill or experience and running Ubuntu who is genuinely concerned about performance and stability, you should probably be running Debian anyway and pointing to the Ubuntu repos for anything that might be missing or too old for your liking.
  You would make a better case in convincing people if you actually gave reasons why.
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
who cares? by kenorland · 2012-09-13 09:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

All these desktops (including Unity) are more than fast enough on even low end laptops. The real problem with Unity, KDE, and Windows for that matter, is usability.
The irony behind all of this hoopla is, of course, that Windows and Mac users were always claiming that their desktops were faster because they didn't use X11 and "network transparency"; that was utter nonsense, of course. Nobody cared or even noticed that Windows and Mac graphics were actually worse. Now that temporarily, a couple of Linux desktops benchmark slower on a prerelease version of one Linux distribution, the sky is suddenly falling.
To all desktop developers: fix your usability problems, forget about FPS pissing contests.
1. Re:who cares? by sciencewhiz · 2012-09-14 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  Unity is unusably slow on my netbook. Gnome 3 is fine.
KDE faster than XFCE? by DeadboltX · 2012-09-13 09:16 · Score: 1

Can anyone explain why KDE was able to squeeze out better performance than XFCE?

I am not familiar with the defaults for Ubuntu's XFCE package, so I am unsure if they have some kind of composting engine configured that would be slowing it down. I was quite shocked to see that they found KDE to land higher benchmarks than XFCE.
1. Re:KDE faster than XFCE? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 09:32 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe you should explain why you think KDE would be slow? Because it looks good?
2. Re:KDE faster than XFCE? by OneAhead · 2012-09-13 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  http://www.xfce.org/
  Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for UNIX-like operating systems. It aims to be fast and low on system resources.
  
  As opposed to KDE, Gnome,... which focus on being feature-rich and modern-looking, which often translates in bigger footprint and worse performance. Especially KDE has a reputation of being somewhat bloated. So one would be tempted to think XFCE would be faster...
3. Re:KDE faster than XFCE? by egr · 2012-09-13 19:39 · Score: 1
  
  I am just speculating but maybe because Xfce and Gnome are based on the same thing? Lightweight does not necessarily means faster, just less features.
Re:Too many criminals by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 12:53 · Score: 0

"that's the problem with Linux"
When you turn on TV, do you have only one channel?
When you visit a grocery store, do they only have one type of every product? IMO that would be a perfect world for Microsoft. Microsoft bread, Microsoft meat, Microsoft horse blinders.
The industry bent over backwards for the criminal OEM Microsoft Windows monopoly model.
How many convictions around the world does it take until the public says enough?
Hope you enjoy another patch Tuesday where more remote exploits which could take over the entire system are patched, again and again.
Just Move On by FyberOptic · 2012-09-13 14:07 · Score: 3, Interesting

The irony is that many years ago KDE seemed to be what the majority of people ran. Gnome just didn't seem to have the features, or whatever the case. Then somehow Gnome took off somewhere along the way and got a lot of footing, then we started seeing lots of distros preferring it instead. Now that they've effectively ruined it, doing everything from cloning OSX to making "Tablet OS, desktop style" perhaps it's time to just use KDE as the default on the major distros and be done with it. Efficient hardware support should always be priority. When times change and something gets so many layers of bloat that it stops working as desired, dump it and move on. That's been the Linux philosophy from the start, even if that meant some headaches along the way until the system was inevitably better.
Unity's bad, but overheating is the killer by Ambient+Sheep · 2012-09-13 14:18 · Score: 3, Interesting

Last year I inherited a nice Acer Aspire laptop, just a year or so old. It came with that abomination called Windows Vista, which true to form managed to lunch itself (corrupting all user profiles) within 3 months of me having it. After a couple of half-hearted attempts to fix Vista, I switched to using an Ubuntu Live CD... and now I have to keep a fan sitting underneath it to stop it shutting down from overheating.
It's not that the built-in fan is inadequate, it's that it just doesn't come on for long enough. The machine warms up, the fan comes on for about 20-30 seconds, and then, inexplicably, turns itself off again, leaving the machine to get hotter and hotter until it just turns itself hard-off to protect itself. Under Vista the fan just stayed on as long as needed.
Last week I finally decided I'd had enough of this and went trawling round all the Ubuntu forums. I spent a couple of days installing lm-sensors and tinkering around with various other bits of software and various things that were suggested. Unfortunately lm-sensors can't see the fan on my machine, there's apparently one chip there it can't recognise. So it seems that I have no way to improve the fan handling on this machine, something the main install should be doing anyway without me having to tinker.
The Ubuntu forums were full of other people with similar complaints "my laptop ran nice and cool on Windows, but on Ubuntu it fries". Mainly Acers, Toshibas and Vaios by the looks of things.
I was planning on kicking Vista into the weeds, and doing a full install of Ubuntu onto this machine, but Unity (the stupid insane scrollbars more than anything else) gave me pause for thought, and now the overheating is the killer.
Until Ubuntu can actually make the fan on my laptop work properly so I can actually use the damn computer, it doesn't actually matter which fricking user interface it's lumbered with. Priorities people, priorities.
1. Re:Unity's bad, but overheating is the killer by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 16:04 · Score: 0
  
  Sigh...Why don't people check if their intended hardware has issues *before* they install an OS on it? I can understand that a CPU fan is not something you expect to fail, but if the Ubuntu forums are full of complaints, it would have been wise to check those before doing the install.
2. Re:Unity's bad, but overheating is the killer by couchslug · 2012-09-13 20:07 · Score: 1
  
  Just toss Windows 7 Ultimate on it. A SLIC activator is easier than factory activation.
  http://forums.mydigitallife.info/forum.php
  
  --
  "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
3. Re:Unity's bad, but overheating is the killer by Ambient+Sheep · 2012-09-13 23:03 · Score: 1
  
  That's precisely why I haven't installed it. :-D If you'd read what I put, I'm still just booting from the Ubuntu Live CD, and the overheating is the very reason I *won't* install it permanently.
  Also, your attitude is a great example of why people aren't moving to the Linux desktop in droves. Got a problem with Ubuntu running on your machine? Well that's YOUR fault for not checking it out properly first. (Even though, actually, I am.)
  C'mon, this isn't NoName Box from Outer Mongolia, it's an Acer, hardly the rarest brand in the world; and more to the point I was shocked when I went to the forums to find that really prestigious brand laptops (Toshiba, Sony Vaio) are having the same issues with it.
4. Re:Unity's bad, but overheating is the killer by Ambient+Sheep · 2012-09-13 23:18 · Score: 1
  
  Ummm thanks for the info. Not really my style, but I'll look into it. After all, it was a perfectly legal install of Vista that decided to lunch itself one day, my only crime was to try to create a new user profile... at which point it corrupted all of them.
5. Re:Unity's bad, but overheating is the killer by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-14 00:19 · Score: 0
  
  Your problem isn't with Unity or even Linux... Quite simply, your laptop is a POS. Turning the fan on when the CPU gets too hot is the job of the BIOS. The fact that it runs OK in Windows just means that Acer devs worked around the problem of their inept hardware guys by writing a special driver.
  Honestly, if your laptop requires an asinine/dangerous hack to function properly it is time to get a new laptop.
6. Re:Unity's bad, but overheating is the killer by Ambient+Sheep · 2012-09-14 14:03 · Score: 1
  
  Yup, I gathered that might be the case from something I read. Apparently with some laptops you can flash a new BIOS to fix that, but their doesn't appear to be one for my model. Also the BIOS flasher may only work under Windows (although I haven't double-checked that), and since my copy of Windows is lunched... *sigh*.
  And yeah, I'd love to get a new laptop, but am totally broke at the moment and this was a very kind gift from someone, so I have to make do with it the best I can. It was a very nice machine when it worked.
  Mind you, I agree with you that it should be the BIOS's job to do that, but if not just Acer, but Tosh and Sony are having the same issues... well yes, they ALL need a good kicking to be honest... but equally, the Linux/Ubuntu devs, even though they shouldn't have to, would be wise to look into it, doncha think?
  To be honest, the whole laptop heat management thing is a broader issue. My ex- had an HP that overheated cos the fan gave out after nine months, she sent it back and got it repaired and four months later it was starting to go again. (And no, she didn't smoke, nor had a house full of fluff or animal hair.) I seriously wonder if anyone can make a laptop that doesn't overheat any more, most of my friends have some kind of issues, I'm amazed there's not been a class-action suit somewhere over it. The only one I know that definitely doesn't is a friend with a business model. Bloody noisy fan, but it never overheats...
7. Re:Unity's bad, but overheating is the killer by vandamme · 2012-09-14 14:37 · Score: 1
  
  I just saw that Speedfan has a new update, they claim it works on Linux. But I haven't checked it out.
8. Re:Unity's bad, but overheating is the killer by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 06:12 · Score: 0
  
  Did you try proprietary gpu drivers? Open source drivers have almost non-existent power management.
InstallFest - Unity Sucks! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 15:19 · Score: 0

I attended an InstallFest today. We installed Ubuntu 12.04 on 50% of the systems and Fedora on the others. After that first boot, Unity was a dog.
Normally at install fests, we see crap PCs. This time we were lucky with most having Core i5 and i7 machines with 4GB-16GB of RAM. They also had 300G of storage free. It was amazing. Only 2 machines were under powered and 1 of those had just 184MB of RAM. We didn't even attempt to install on that, but we did help him get TinyCore running from a flash drive.
I saw a Core i7 with 6GB of RAM brought to its knees - taking over ... 30 ... seconds ... between ... keystrokes. I expected it to get better after a minute. It didn't. The pain lasted over 30 minutes on the machine I was helping install. Initially, we thought it was the network, but that proved to not be the problem. Unity was. At the next boot, I forced Unity-2D instead and it was fast, but still a little sluggish. It was usable, so we patched the box and installed Synaptic to gain access to all the software we know and love that Canonical seems to hate with Software Center. What's up with that?
We installed XFCE and LXDE meta-packages and let the users try them out too. They loved that the interface could be changed so drasticly and so easily. The machines flew! Fast - unbelievably fast with both DEs. Most settled on XFCE as their preferred GUI. We taught them Synaptic, sudo, and provided a list of sample programs for their different needs. Since this was at a college, the first things they all installed was Flash and the non-free media codecs.
In the end, everyone there said Unity looked pretty, but something is definitely broken. I haven't seen that on my machines, but Unity is definitely slower than everything else, so I run LXDE almost always.
Waiting 30 seconds between keystrokes is crazy. Most wanted to remove Ubuntu immediately. Not a good impression at all. Only XFCE saved the installfest.
There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of things that Canonical has done well, but Unity performance is not one of them. Making Unity the default was a terrible decision. Forcing any accelerated graphics as the default is a terrible decision until everything - always - is - perfect - regardless - of - the - install. A toggle to enable it would be nice after the system is up and working well.
1. Re:InstallFest - Unity Sucks! by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-13 21:56 · Score: 1
  
  I attended an InstallFest today. We installed Ubuntu 12.04 on 50% of the systems and Fedora on the others. After that first boot, Unity was a dog.
  Normally at install fests, we see crap PCs. This time we were lucky with most having Core i5 and i7 machines with 4GB-16GB of RAM. They also had 300G of storage free. It was amazing. Only 2 machines were under powered and 1 of those had just 184MB of RAM. We didn't even attempt to install on that, but we did help him get TinyCore running from a flash drive.
  I have a hard time believing this event occurred yesterday, even more so from an Anonymous Coward.
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
2. Re:InstallFest - Unity Sucks! by Vince6791 · 2012-09-14 05:30 · Score: 0
  
  Man, 30 seconds between keystrokes? never had this issue with ubuntu running compiz(even at 120 cpu usage) or without it even on my old core2duo 2.4ghz. I see it running a little slow on mine at 800mhz(coolnquiet) phenom ii x6 when i'm using kaffeine(or any program dealing with graphics) for tv and browsing with firefox on the second screen. I always use the cat /proc/cpuinfo to see my cpu speed. But at 2700mhz it just flies no freezing or any stalling issues. Even with kde. Lxde and xfce have tried and are fast but not much to look at. Go and look at the compiz cpu usage or make sure to use ati and nvidia proprietary drivers because open source have performance issues.
Re:Open source == FAIL by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-13 21:08 · Score: 0

I know, I know....don't feed the trolls.
Still, for your amusement I'd like to point out that I've switched from Apple to GNU/Linux a while ago and are very happy with my decision and saved thousands of dollars on hardware. Also, free software works better for me than paid Apple software. There are exceptions like e.g. Scrivener, which is really good for creative writing, but most software for OS X nowadays is designed for fast money making. Good luck reading your proprietary data files when your favorite application maker has gone out of business in 5 years from now.
Oh, please by ThatsNotPudding · 2012-09-13 23:35 · Score: 1

I've said for a while now that desktop Linux's biggest problem is that the de facto primary consumer distro doesn't use KDE by default.
Does KDE still have an OCD-like insistance that programs and apps start with the letter K? Until that childishness stops, no thanKs.
We don't take YOU seriously, "Forrest" (lol) by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-15 03:35 · Score: 0

You "sank your ship" forrest -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3110069&cid=41346029 with you running away after you started trolling others no less.
1. Re:We don't take YOU seriously, "Forrest" (lol) by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-15 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  APK, why so tense?
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
No, "Forrest" (lol) - you prefer RUNNING! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-15 03:41 · Score: 0

After you troll others 1st & get "blown away" -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3110069&cid=413460
1. Re:No, "Forrest" (lol) - you prefer RUNNING! by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-15 04:18 · Score: 1
  
  You mad, APK?
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Give reasons for trolling & running, "Forrest" by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-15 03:54 · Score: 0

After your illogical off-topic failing ad hominem attacks vs. verifiable and undeniable facts you couldn't disprove -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3110069&cid=41346029
You ran like a beyotch from an AC, "Forrest" by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-15 04:13 · Score: 0

After you started trolling & RAN, lol -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3110069&cid=41346029
1. Re:You ran like a beyotch from an AC, "Forrest" by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-15 04:22 · Score: 1
  
  lol APK
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Re:Give reasons for trolling & running, "Forre by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-15 04:21 · Score: 1

I'm okay with this, APK.

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
No, you just "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-17 04:45 · Score: 0

Doing unjustifiable downmods to try "hide" it too -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3110069&cid=41346029 after you came into that exchange trolling only to burn yourself later - "Later that night when he ran from sight, came the WRECK of the 'Ash-Fox Fitzgerald'", lmao...
1. Re:No, you just "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" by Ash-Fox · 2012-09-17 06:33 · Score: 0
  
  APK is mad I won't read his TL;DR drivel. :>
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Here's a thought.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-18 03:12 · Score: 0

How about getting multiple monitors to work correctly, easily, beyond 3+ monitors. I have 4 monitors and have yet to get them work correctly and seamlessly as it does very easily in Windows. I have been reading and trying all sorts of configurations Nvidia and ATI for about 2 years and have yet to get it work correctly beyond 3 monitors.