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How Viable Is Large Scale Wind Energy?

New submitter notscientific writes "Renewable sources of energy are obviously a hit but they have as yet failed to live up to the hype. A new study in Nature Climate Change shows however that there is more than enough power to be harnessed from the wind to sustain Earth's entire population... x200! To generate energy from the wind, we may however need to set up wind farms at altitudes of 200-20,000 metres. To be fair, the study is purely theoretical and does not look at the feasibility of such potential wind farms. Regardless, the paper does provide a major boost to backers of wind-generated energy. Science has confirmed that the sky's the limit."

17 of 345 comments (clear)

  1. Hmm... by RevDisk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yea, I'll wait for more wind farms to actually be build.

    I know folks that build those giant wind turbines. They think they build a good product (and they do), but not a single one thinks it'll be more than a supplemental. If for nothing else... Not In My Back Yard.

    1. Re:Hmm... by neyla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      True. But luckily we neither need, nor want, one single answer that solves everything. We're better off in a multitude of ways from havign a healthy mix of different energy-sources, rather than being subject to the whims of a single one.

      It's better to have some hydropower, some wind, some sun, some nuclear, some hydrocarbons, some tides, some biomass instead of putting all our eggs in one basket. As such, "can we cover our entire energy-needs *only* with wind?" is the wrong questions. The right question is if wind can be one part of the overall solution, it seems pretty clear to me that the answer to that is "yes".

      As for NIMBY, there's solutions to that. Fewer people are bothered by wind-farms being installed a few miles offshore, such as those in the UK and Denmark currently, for example.

    2. Re:Hmm... by alexander_686 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I know people who work with both the turbines and the energy grid.

      Wind power is ready for prime time. Gas is cheaper, but if you factor in a reasonable cost for it's carbon footprint Wind is right there.

      Storage, on the other hand, is not ready for prime time. Without storage it's going to be hard to break 20%. I understand that some parts of the country have maxed out how much wind they can have. They have to turn on / off the gas turbines to make up for sudden power surges / drops that it's not worth it anymore. There are a lot of interesting ideas but they have yet to prove themselves.

      Give it a few years and then we can see if wind can break the 20% mark.

    3. Re:Hmm... by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Water heaters should not be running at all unless someone is taking a shower. It is called on demand hot water, tank style heaters need to go. Normally this is gas fueled, not electric.

    4. Re:Hmm... by gtbritishskull · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The big problem we have now is not energy production. It is energy storage. We need to shift energy consumption to when we have a surplus of production. If you can have your electric water heater (there are electric tank water heaters) only heat up at night when electricity is cheap, then you are shifting energy consumption and making the system more efficient. It would be worthwhile loss in efficiency (heat loss from the tank). On demand water heaters cannot shift energy consumption, so while they may be a little more energy efficient, they would be much less grid efficient.

      So, once the "smart grid" has been deployed, we might move AWAY from on demand water heaters and back to tanks.

    5. Re:Hmm... by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A little more? We are talking about 25% more.

      You would have to boil the water at 2am and insulate the heck out of the tank if you wanted to have hot water at 10am
      .
      I would imagine more likely we will use a large thermos style bottle connected to an on demand system. At night it would fill the thermos and only then run again if needed.

      Old style thin tank heaters are going away.

    6. Re:Hmm... by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To avoid NIMBY, there are lots of turbines in NW Indiana-- out in the corn and soybean fields. At night, there is this weird horizon of blinking red aviation warning lights as the props turn from horizon to horizon in seeming unison. Better than the coal-fired plants with plumes you can see for a hundred miles.

      Multiple sources, as you cite, are a great idea.

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    7. Re:Hmm... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Informative

      Old style thin tank heaters are going away

      Not any time soon. Price out 'on demand' systems. Then look at the upkeep costs. They have quite a bit to go before they're ready for main street. They don't save all that much power when compared to a modern tanked system. They require large electric feeds.

      Now, solar hot water boosters might make inroads in parts of the US where it's appropriate (just like the rest of the world, sigh) but I don't see the tankless systems as really taking off.

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    8. Re:Hmm... by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think CEOs (and their families) of companies should be required to live downwind/downstream from their plants. Would make them think twice about cost vs pollution issues.

      --
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    9. Re:Hmm... by Chas · · Score: 4, Informative

      Unfortunately, even offshore wind-farms can bother people. Because NIMBY just has no limits.

      The proper term is BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything)

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
  2. While it can be done... by MtViewGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ....No one has actually _built_ a wind power turbine setup that operates at well above the ground. I mean, consider the issues involved:

    1. How are we going to keep those turbines up at altitude?
    2. What are the costs of tethering these high-flying wind turbine installations?
    3. Will these installations become hazards to migratory birds flying at high altitude, let alone passing airplanes of all sizes?

    I'd rather build hundreds of nuclear reactors based on the safe liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) technology instead in the short to medium term, and in the longer term build space-based solar power arrays parked in geosynchronous or near-geosynchronous orvbit.

    1. Re:While it can be done... by stms · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ....No one has actually _built_ a wind power turbine setup that operates at well above the ground. I mean, consider the issues involved:

      1. How are we going to keep those turbines up at altitude?
      2. What are the costs of tethering these high-flying wind turbine installations?
      3. Will these installations become hazards to migratory birds flying at high altitude, let alone passing airplanes of all sizes?
      4. How much damage will these things do if they start shedding parts.

      I'd rather build hundreds of nuclear reactors based on the safe liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) technology instead in the short to medium term, and in the longer term build space-based solar power arrays parked in geosynchronous or near-geosynchronous orvbit.

    2. Re:While it can be done... by Buchenskjoll · · Score: 5, Funny

      Let's build turbine with solar cells on them, then we can exploit the solar wind...

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  3. Ah yes, the anti-wind shills are here by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Every time a discussion about wind power comes up, some troll (usually with a very high UID, sometimes with an account created solely for the purpose) asks how putting up windmills will affect weather.

    The answer should be fairly obvious. We have cut down a shitload of trees, which normally slow down wind. Putting up windmills? Slows down wind slightly, increases turbulence significantly, causing minimal localized temperature effects. Kind of like putting up trees. If there is any significant effect, it will be moderating, which is a good thing.

    In addition, wind turbines don't actually cause any heating worth mentioning, unless perhaps they catch on fire. This is covered in the linked article, which had the GP actually cared about this issue, they would have found with google and read already. They cause thermal mixing, which can raise temperatures at a specific point, but which don't raise temperatures in a region. It only results in higher measured temperatures in a relatively small area downwind. This is expected due to (fractionally) lower wind speeds and greater thermal mixing.

    In summary, anyone who expresses concerns about wind farms affecting weather is a shill, a troll, or an idiot, because these are not real concerns, and this is a well-known fact.

    --
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  4. Your choice by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can get nuclear powerplant, a solar array, a coal burner, a gas burner, a wind farm. But something is going to have to generate that electricity you keep on consuming.

    Make a choice. Oh wait, I forgot. Democracy, power without accountability. You can vote to have your cake and eat it to.

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  5. Re:Consistent availability is the issue by kiwimate · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's being done in the U.S. as well. Also known as pumped storage or pumped hydro.

  6. Re:Climate Damage? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People have studied it, and nothing significant happens because you don't stop the wind, just slow it down very slightly like all the trees you chopped down and terrain you flattened used to.

    I really can't believe this got modded up even by one point. It is on about the same level as people who worry that Britain will be blown away by all the windmills, sailing off into the Atlantic.

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