The Day Leo Traynor Confronted His Troll

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The Day Leo Traynor Confronted His Troll

Posted by Soulskill on Saturday September 29, 2012 @06:31PM from the your-uppance-will-come dept.

McGruber writes "Dublin-based writer Leo Traynor has written a piece about confronting the troll who drove him off Twitter, hacked his Facebook, and abused and terrified his family. Quoting: 'I blocked the account and reported it as spam. The following week it happened again in an identical manner. A new follower, I followed back, received a string of abusive DMs, blocked and reported for spam. Two or three times a week. Sometimes two or three times a day. An almost daily cycle of blocking and reporting and intense verbal abuse. ... Then one day something happened that truly frightened me. I don't scare easily but this was vile. I received a parcel at my home address. Nothing unusual there – I get lots of post. I ripped it open and there was a Tupperware lunchbox inside full of ashes. There was a note included, saying, "Say hello to your relatives from Auschwitz." I was physically sick. ... In July I was approached by a friend who's basically an IT genius, and he offered some help. He said that he could trace the hackers and trolls for me using perfectly legal technology, which would lead to their IP addresses. I said yes. Then I baited them – I was deliberately more provocative toward them than ever I'd been before.'"

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Trolling? by steppedleader · 2012-09-29 18:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

Compared to the typical trolling found on the internet, this seems a bit more like harassment or stalking, no?
1. Re:Trolling? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-29 18:54 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I'm disappointed that the author didn't press charges. This kid is probably a sociopath. When he stalks and hurts other people in the future the police won't have the evidence they need of past cases. Sociopaths don't learn how to stop hurting people, they just learn not to get caught the next time.
2. Re:Trolling? by TheRaven64 · 2012-09-29 19:30 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  No, that's insulting. Good trolling seems to be a dying art these days. A good troll post says something that sounds plausible, and encourages responses. During the thread, it becomes less and less reasonable, but the aim is to make the other person say something unreasonable first or to make them waste a large amount of effort replying. If you want to see a good troll, read some of the threads started by roman_mir.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
3. Re:Trolling? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-29 19:30 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Agreed. A troll keeps things on the forum only. Once they extend beyond the forum I also think it is more than trolling.
4. Re:Trolling? by Quiet_Desperation · 2012-09-29 19:54 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I agree with the AC. The extent of what the evil little miseryshit did proves it was not just a game to him. I'd wager his show of tears was just that- a show. His brain is miswired. There's a whole section that simply isn't working. Coulseling won't acomplish a damn thing, but he'll be able to make it look like it did.
  Sociopaths are the most manipulative people in the world. It's why the alphas go into politics. They thrive there. They are one of the three types of people in this world that you never EVER trust along with junkies and Party loyalist ideologues.
5. Re:Trolling? by Fjandr · 2012-09-29 20:13 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  The problem with the idea that the tears were for show was that it was deliberately kept from him that they knew he was the perpetrator. He confessed without being confronted with evidence linking him to it, or even the slightest hint that they suspected he was the perpetrator. At least that's the picture presented by the article.
6. Re:Trolling? by Registered+Coward+v2 · 2012-09-29 20:25 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  No, that's insulting. Good trolling seems to be a dying art these days. A good troll post says something that sounds plausible, and encourages responses. During the thread, it becomes less and less reasonable, but the aim is to make the other person say something unreasonable first or to make them waste a large amount of effort replying. If you want to see a good troll, read some of the threads started by roman_mir.
  True, a good troll had that ring of plausibility that it triggered teh "Huh? I must respond to this..." reflex before the responder sat down and thought it through. For example:
  While Star Trek (Star Wars / Firefly / Battlestar Galactica - pick one) tried to stay true to science as much as is possible in a science fiction world where faster than light travel is the norm; they missed one big thing -> everytime a shuttle craft passed the Enterprise it cast a shadow. In a vacuum; everyone knows you don't have shadows in a vacuum.
  Of course, posting that in a Star Trek (or Mensa) group is like shooting fish in a barrel..
  Trolling isn't flaming (any idiot can flame); but unfortunately trolling has lost its original meaning much as hacker has. Nor is simply disagreeing and laying out your position; though many people are willing to yell "Troll" when they can't defend their position. AFU, in the old usenet days, was a great example of the art of trolling; unfortunately since the decline of usenet and the onset of eternal September it's a different world.
  
  --
  I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
7. Re:Trolling? by steppedleader · 2012-09-29 20:26 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Nah, roman_mir is just a libertarian type... I like having a few of those around. Don't necessarily agree on a lot of the economic stuff, but it's nice to have someone complaining about the lack of respect for civil liberties among the mainstream parties.
  
  Committed establishment Republican types? Now, there's a mystery. I've completely lost the ability to tell them apart from trolls.
8. Re:Trolling? by flyingfsck · 2012-09-29 20:26 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Yes absolutely. A good beating will modify the behaviour of anyone dramatically. If it is a true sociopath, you just have to beat more agressively. Medieval crowd control methods as practised by the Catholic Church and Vlad the Impaler, still work just as efficiently today, as it did back then.
  
  --
  Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
9. Re:Trolling? by hairyfeet · 2012-09-29 20:48 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Hell name a SINGLE Internet word we old greybeards came up with that hasn't been butchered all to hell by folks that don't get it had a specific meaning, just one. Troll, shill, virus, its all lost its original meanings because too many who don't have a clue what they meant use them wrong constantly. That's why I don't even say words like trojan or virus anymore but just tell them "You got a bug" because as far as the public is concerned everything is a virus, and everyone that does something bad on the net is a troll. its just lost its meaning.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
10. Re:Trolling? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-29 20:49 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The problem with the idea that the tears were for show was that it was deliberately kept from him that they knew he was the perpetrator. He confessed without being confronted with evidence linking him to it, or even the slightest hint that they suspected he was the perpetrator. At least that's the picture presented by the article.
  Bullshit. If a cop had you in a room and started talking about the details to a crime you committed and you 'spontaneously' confessed, you can hardly say that you didn't realize you were a suspect. This man who barely knew the kid suddenly visited him and then started showing him the details of his crime. Yet you still think the kid didn't realize that he was a suspect? Come on! The kid confessed because he figured it out and knew that manipulation was required to keep his freedom. That is all. It wasn't remorse. Sociopaths are more manipulative than you can imagine.
11. Re:Trolling? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-29 20:55 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Remember that the author already knew the kid for a long time. He's in a much better position to judge what the kid is like than we are. Teens are less mature in their capability to judge the consequences of their actions or to control their impulses than adults. What you see may be caused in part by immaturity instead of sociopathy. He appears to be pretty messed up, but it may be something he will outgrow. He may be a sociopath, but he may also be an overly sensitive kid who has already been scared shitless by this confrontation and doesn't need more to motivate him to get back on the right track. That is not something we can judge from just reading a short article like this. Leave the judgement to the people near him.
12. Re:Trolling? by Psychotria · 2012-09-29 21:03 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  If you want to see a good troll, read some of the threads started by roman_mir.
  Not only is good trolling rare, but no one even knows what trolling is anymore! Someone isn't trolling just because they say something you disagree with. I can say with certainty that although I disagree with roman_mir, there are people who genuinely have similar 'extremist' views.
  I began to write a new comment saying pretty much the same thing as you. Since you've almost nailed it, I decided to reply to your comment instead. So, l will reiterate. Nobody knows what trolling is anymore! They don't. Being abusive is trolling. Saying something controversial isn't trolling. Trolling is leading the person to believe what you're saying or showing them, or leading them into a trap, and then, although not compulsory, making them look like a damn fool. This is quite distinct to saying something like "you're a gay horse". I dunno what a gay horse is, but let's pretend it's offensive. That example is an insult, not a troll at all. The media doesn't know what a "troll" is. They label people who bombard people with insults as trolls. The people who do that are not trolls. Trolls are much more subtle and often *funny*. Maybe it's going to end up like the hacker vs. cracker shit. It seems like the more mainstream things become the more our past is lost.
13. Re:Trolling? by Psychotria · 2012-09-29 21:08 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I'd like to add that possibly satire is more align with trolling. A lot of The Onion articles are "trolls". To the initiated they illicit a response based on a falsehood. That's a troll.
14. Re:Trolling? by jamesh · 2012-09-29 21:27 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I agree with the AC. The extent of what the evil little miseryshit did proves it was not just a game to him. I'd wager his show of tears was just that- a show. His brain is miswired. There's a whole section that simply isn't working. Coulseling won't acomplish a damn thing, but he'll be able to make it look like it did.
  Sociopaths are the most manipulative people in the world. It's why the alphas go into politics. They thrive there. They are one of the three types of people in this world that you never EVER trust along with junkies and Party loyalist ideologues.
  So what are you suggesting? If he as sociopathic as you suggest, then simply pressing charges won't change anything, so you'd have to lock him up to get him out of harms way. You couldn't lock him up forever of course (what court would do that?), so eventually he'd get out again. And if he wasn't really that messed up when he went in, he would be when he got out.
  And I bet the tears weren't for show. Even if he is a sociopath and didn't care one way or the other how much pain he'd caused, he would still have been truly upset that he got caught.
15. Re:Trolling? by Zero__Kelvin · 2012-09-29 22:24 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Since you've almost nailed it, I'll just add one thing. Here on Slashdot we have a -1 Troll option and a -1 Flamebait option. Almost nobody here knows what either of those terms mean anymore, including right here on Slashdot. As an example, when someone is clearly making moronic statements that they actually believe, and one calls them a moron, that is neither a troll, nor is it flamebait. Wikipedia gets it completely wrong as well. Flamebait is much like trolling, where the poster says something ridiculous in order to bait people into flaming them. Ergo, if I call someone a moron when they have made it clear that they are either a moron or intending to be one, my response might be a follow up to flame bait (if the poster intended to get me to call him a moron), but is not itself flamebait. Now, I'd really like to see people read this, understand it, and start modding correctly, but let's face it: there are a lot of morons in the world ;-0
  
  --
  Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
16. Re:Trolling? by jcr · 2012-09-29 23:58 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Nobody knows what trolling is anymore!
  Just like nobody seems to know what hacking is, either.
  -jcr
  
  --
  The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
17. Re:Trolling? by 1u3hr · 2012-09-30 00:34 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  ell name a SINGLE Internet word we old greybeards came up with that hasn't been butchered all to hell by folks that don't get it had a specific meaning
  Well, "net" lingo usually borrows and perverts vocabulary from other realms. "Troll" is a bit of wordplay on the net fishing method and the mythical monster. "Geek" used to be a guy who bit the head of chickens in a circus sideshow. You can't complain too much when the words receive wider usage and change their meanings again.
18. Re:Trolling? by hairyfeet · 2012-09-30 05:05 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Oh I'm with you there 110% Drinkypoo. When my sister was diagnosed with a terminal illness right after the birth of her second son and her husband decided 'that was too much for him" and bailed i was handed two adorable little boys under the age of two as my mother had to devote herself full time to taking care of my sister. I was lucky that mom had given me a great example so I sat there reading "Great sci-fi writers of the 70s" to them and when it came to electronics while my boys got to have all the electronic stuff they could possibly want, what with me being a geek (My sister was royally pissed that the oldest boy's first word wasn't "mama" but "MINE!" as I had snuck the controller out of his hand while he snoozed and replaced Barney Hide and Seek with Eternal Champions and he caught me) I never EVER used it as a babysitter, i used it as a learning tool.
  I didn't just get educational games, I did things like took apart a hard drive and had a friend cut me a clear plastic top for it so they could see how the drive spun and wrote when they would hit save, showed them by putting their faces into DOOM levels how what you saw on the screen was controlled by loading files and scripts, I tore things apart and showed them how they work. This paid off later in life as the oldest now helps the others in his pre-med classes that don't have great computer skills and the youngest is becoming incredibly skilled with graphics.
  But when I would pick them up from their friends houses or ask them how things were there....damn, just damn. Homes without a single book in them, not a single one which shocked the hell out of my boys which were reading Narnia and Harry Potter from when they were little, and parents that frankly never actually interacted with their kids! It was ALL TVs and consoles in their bedrooms and as long as they weren't "bugging" the parents whatever they did was fine. I didn't choose to have two babies dropped into my lap but the thought of just dumping two little kids in front of an idiot box and never interacting with them just horrifies me, talk about stunting their development!
  But there comes a time when shitty parents or not its time to grow the hell up and accept responsibility and at 17 I think the kid is old enough to know better. Its not like there isn't tons of horrific footage of the death camps all over the net, 5 minutes in Google would have shown him that wasn't something to be using like some sort of prank. Its time for him to man the fuck up and learn what he can and can't do or frankly this little shithead is gonna open his mouth to the wrong person in college and get his ass stomped.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
19. Re:Trolling? by houstonbofh · 2012-09-30 05:33 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Internet is the main form of communication for kids today and depriving someone of internet access will isolate them socially completely.
  We used to call that "grounding" and somehow I survived it more than once. I know this may come as a shock, but punishment is supposed to be unpleasant.
20. Re:Trolling? by LurkerXXX · 2012-09-30 07:13 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  You can't blame the kid bro or judge him too harshly.
  Yes I can. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Not everyone in adverse situations turn into raging assholes. It's not an excuse.
So, let the opining begin... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-09-29 18:40 · Score: 5, Insightful

So, do we actually believe that a college-age man is sufficiently motivated to troll the same person, including offline, for weeks on end; but so obtuse that he doesn't realize such trolling's effects, or did TFA's author just get played by a sociopathic little fucker's crocodile tears?
I'm voting for #2, personally. Wholly anonymous mob pile-ons can easily enough sweep up ethically-unimpressive-but-basically-standard-issue people; and some damaged-but-mostly-harmless types actually seem willing to spend their time dumping copypasta on entire forums; but solitary, prolonged, systematic trolling of one target chosen for no reason? Kid is bad seed.
1. Re:So, let the opining begin... by Doctor_Jest · 2012-09-29 18:56 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I tend to agree with that... how I read it is he was crying because he got caught, not because he realized his stalking was a bad idea. If he had kept it to online nonsense, you could write it off as a bored moron who needs a swift kick in the ass, but when he started the whole mailing of packages thing, well, now the fucker needs locked up, or at the very least institutionalized until they can figure out what the flying fuck is wrong with his brain.
  
  I'm ambivalent to the whole Internet Fuckwad Syndrome, because it's nothing to get pissed about... but when it moves outside to the real world, well, that is when it needs to be prosecuted harshly. This isn't a Troll... this is a psychopath. It's like the word 'hacker'... non-techies have co-opted a word and changed its meaning. (Unlike 'cyberbullying'... which is a term coined by technophobes about trolling...) ...that's for another thread, though...
  
  --
  It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
2. Re:So, let the opining begin... by immaterial · 2012-09-29 19:10 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  ...well, now the fucker needs locked up, or at the very least institutionalized until they can figure out what the flying fuck is wrong with his brain.
  Prison is going to do what for his mental health exactly? Then note that Leo Traynor's condition for not going to the police was that the parents put the kid in therapy.
3. Re:So, let the opining begin... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-29 19:36 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  If he wasn't a Jew he would have been attacked for something else. Any it could have happened anywhere. You're reading too much into the message of a sociopath, and thereby giving him more credit than warranted. The attack wasn't in the message. The attack was in the stalking. The message was just tailored to the victim.
4. Re:So, let the opining begin... by Doctor_Jest · 2012-09-29 20:32 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It is assuming he is mentally ill. He could just be a fucking cocksucker who needs to be placed out of society before he kills someone. I am not qualified to know if he's in need of help or cornholed by a huge black guy named Thunderdick. But something needs to be done, or we'll all be reading about this asshat's killing spree with our Post Toasties.
  
  --
  It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
5. Re:So, let the opining begin... by chrismcb · 2012-09-29 20:50 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  So, do we actually believe that a college-age man is sufficiently motivated to troll the same person, including offline, for weeks on end; but so obtuse that he doesn't realize such trolling's effects,
  
  Yes
6. Re:So, let the opining begin... by Fred+Ferrigno · 2012-09-29 21:47 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Option #3: The kid has a severe psychiatric disorder and fixated on a family friend when it just as easily could have been Jodie Foster or Gabrielle Giffords.
7. Re:So, let the opining begin... by immaterial · 2012-09-29 21:57 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Yeah, we should lock this kid up with only criminals to socialize with, where he can (out of desire or necessity) join a neo-nazi prison gang who will reinforce all his fucked-up worldviews. And then a few years later we can throw him back into society and everything will be peachy-fucking-keen.
  
  Not only is the philosophy you're touting far more damaging to society as a whole, your RAWR PUNISHMENT attitude isn't even supported by the victim in this case. Who is being served by throwing the kid in prison?
8. Re:So, let the opining begin... by The+Master+Control+P · 2012-09-29 22:14 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You really don't see what's wrong with a prison system that all but guarantees that anyone who isn't a cold, hardened criminal going in will be one coming out?
  
  There are enough people who are naturally or are turned into habitual criminals without a "justice" system actively creating them.
9. Re:So, let the opining begin... by Azghoul · 2012-09-30 00:28 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  So you're in favor of either committing him to a mental ward against his will (read Thomas Szasz), killing a 17 y/o kid for being a dick, or having him suffer life-long physical and emotional injury due to prison rape. When the victim here says he wants to give the kid a chance.
  And you're the sane, socially acceptable guy here?
Re:At what point... by Truekaiser · 2012-09-29 19:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

Before or after he found him?
A sane person would of given the cops the information and let this be a legal issue. I would of done the same. Basically this kid crossed the line from harmless internet troll, to potential killer when he moved the trolling to the real world. that has consequences and it they ruin his life well it's his fault.
Something doesn't sound right by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2012-09-29 19:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

"I was deliberately more provocative toward them than ever I'd been before."
This sentence makes me think that, however vile the "troll" could have turned out to be, this wasn't an entirely black-versus-white situation. I suspect this guy was being a jerk back at anyone who was a jerk to him, and it escalated further than he thought it would.

--
#DeleteChrome
this is not trolling by circletimessquare · 2012-09-29 19:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

This is stalking
Its like calling arson vandalism
Identify the nature of the transgression correctly

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
This is a simple case. by xor.pt · 2012-09-29 19:43 · Score: 3, Insightful

The author is just too naive, or cowardly to deliver his friend's son with legal action.
In the end the author tries to spin this little story as a 'I'm the bigger man' tale instead.
The author is at this point just enabling him, like his parents.
This is a 17 year old who's in college. He's a danger to himself and others, and any additional damage caused by him will also be in the author's head.
What did he learn from this? Cry when you get caugh, and your actions have no consequences.
How is it even difficult? by Kohath · 2012-09-29 19:58 · Score: 5, Insightful

Post a link for a guy to click on. He clicks on it. It goes to a page you publish on your server. You look in the server logs. You know his IP address. Then you can find his city and possibly his neighborhood from that. And you know his ISP.
After that it can become more difficult. But it's hardly impossible. If a friend at the guy's ISP will do you a favor (the troll in the story is local), or if you can simply guess the right answer and check it, it's easy again. If you can read someone's cookies with a cross-site scripting vulnerability or trick them into installing malware, it's not going to be too hard to find them.
Re:Safety first by demonlapin · 2012-09-29 20:57 · Score: 5, Insightful

Ergo, GP post is a good example of an actual troll.