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NYC Data Centers Struggle To Recover After Sandy
Nerval's Lobster writes "Problems in New York's data centers persisted through Wednesday morning, with hosting companies and other facilities racing against time to keep generators humming as water was pumped out of their facility basements. The fight now is to keep those generators fueled while pumps clear the basement areas, allowing the standard backup generators to begin operating. It's also unclear whether the critical elements of infrastructure (power and communications) will both be up and running in time to restore services. The following is a list of some of the data centers and services in the area, and how they're faring."
I'm responsible for a few servers at Peer1, and their efforts are interesting: "Peer1’s operations at 75 Broad are operating on sheer manpower: a bucket brigade. According to a blog post from Fog Creek Software, one of the clients at the building, about 30 customers are lifting buckets (or cans) of diesel fuel up 18 flights of stairs."
I figured they just went out of business. I guess it's this hurricane thing this time..
When it's wet, the clouds go down
At 100 Williams Street, http://www.nyistatus.com/
My server and connections have been up non stop.
I know it's cynical of me, but I find it a bit sad that we can better plan data centers then medical factilities.
I know all the colocation facilities I've been to in Manhattan have generators above the 6th floor ( sometimes in addition to generators in the basement). A few had them on the roof with some special setup that allows fuel to be flown by helicopter for worse case scenarios.
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
How much in fines from OSHA or the NY EPA are these companies looking at for the bucket brigade?
Don;t you all understand!? People _died_ during this storm. Lots of Newyorkers are still without power and water and here your all woried about data centers!? Get a grip nerds!
Seems sort of stupid to me to put generators in a basement, considering that your on the coast, surrounded by water, and hurricanes like to come thru every now and then. Maybe this doesn't happen all the time, I don't know. I live on the west coast. I just have to worry about volcano's. (and I don't worry about volcano's).
Be seeing you...
Why would anyone in their right mind place generators and tanks below ground where flooding would be an issue?
You do your job. Many of these data centers are part of and important to communication, rescue operations, information. When you work there, you might not know how important that particular data center may be but -- you do your job.
Whatever part of the city you can keep operating is good.
Don't criticize what you know nothing about.
Denier == terrorist.
Why not move them to the roof? And while we're at it, do the same for all the nuke plants? A simple f*cking appliance that needs air and fuel to run and somehow they manage to spend life at the bottom of a potential indoor swimming pool.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Why on earth would you put generators on the 18th floor if you don't have a fuel line running up to them... That seems like quite a basic oversight???
I'm reminded of the Intedictor LiveJournal account during Hurricane Katrina. You do whatever you have to do to get the job done. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdictor_(blog)
Ahh: Diesel Control Protocol
I'm nowhere near NYC, but my voip provider was taken down by these floods and was very slow to failover to their other, lower-capacity sites. Still not working right. Complaints were especially vocal from people on the west coast, who were quite surprised to have their business lines knocked out.
"Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes." --Henry David Thoreau
Gas stations bury their gas tanks underground with few problems of water seepage. Granted, they aren't surrounded by water and there is little water pressure (i.e. covered by water). However, you would think that they would have at least waterproofed the fuel tanks.
Per the topic, the following locations are experiencing or have experienced outages:
if ($question !~ m/bb|[^b]{2}/i) { die(); }
This would never happen at an Amish data center.
What a waist of potential energy. Just push the generator out the window.
Like many other posters, my first question was why were the generators on upper floors but fuel (and pumps) in the basement? And as soon as I read the answer, it was completely obvious: fire codes. Duh. Thinking of how fuel is stored elsewhere, the only other option I can think of would be storing the fuel outside the building but above potential floodwaters. Not in a place like Manhattan. The price of real estate is much too high for tank farms on stilts. And the earthquake risk in New York is non-zero, so that solution might have the same problems as the current solution. So maybe the answer is that flood-prone urban areas are just not a good place for critical data infrastructure. Is relocating major data centers out of flood-prone areas of Manhattan (and other similarly risky areas) feasible? The potential of a major flood event in Manhattan has been well-known for a long time. Much of lower Manhattan is built on landfill. Did the builders of these data centers include basement flooding + extended power outage in their risk forecasts and just decide to deal with it if it happened?
source: http://twitter.com/linode
Let's hope power is restored soon...
It looks like Google was ahead of the curve after all with their idea for floating server farms.
Denier == terrorist.
And um, yeah, potato==squirrel. Just because the GOP has been taken over by ideologically-crazed individuals is no excuse for the rest of to start doing it too.
-1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
If any of these data centers are really as important as you claim, they should have been switched to their alternate sites (far from NYC) days ago. If these sites are not important enough to have real disaster recovery plans including alternate sites then they simply are not critical. Just being a datacenter does not make them any more important than the thousands of other businesses (stores, restaurants, you name it) that are also 'offline' because they are flooded.
In*ter*es*ting - adj.
1. capable of holding one's attention.
2. arousing a feeling of interest.
3. oh God, oh God, we're all going to die.
/*Insert boring sig here*/
There are commercial generators which run on a variable mix of natural gas and diesel. With such a set, you can greatly extend your runtime by reducing the diesel percentage to a minimum when natural gas is available. Then if or when the natural gas goes out you can run them on 100% diesel and you're no worse off.
Well, here in the real world, we have DR plans based upon the suggestions of the trade journals and then we have the actual implementation of the DR plan based upon the budget cuts of the past X years. Guess which one includes multiple redundant datacenters in locations of a significant distance away from each other and which one doesn't include those datacenters.
(stores, restaurants, you name it)
I'm sorry, but a burrito and a new pair of Doc Martens does not take priority over networking and communications infrastructure in the middle of a natural disaster.
Do you think your cell phone service is powered by magic sky fairies who just fly your words off to the person on the other end of the line? It's not. When you dial 911, your local cell tower pipes the data down a fiber optic backhaul to the nearest data center where it hooks into the outside network and routes your call to your local 911 dispatch, which (surprise surprise) relies on telecommunications infrastructure. There's a pretty good reason why most big data centers are #2 in line for generator fuel behind hospitals - they need it because they provide essential services that are crucial in the wake of a disaster.
Definition of "ideologically crazed"- a group of people who systematically deny reality. In this case, human civilization threatening reality.
What reality are they denying? The reality that either we will take world-wide coordinated action against carbon-induced climate change or we will extinguish human civilization.
That's pretty much the definition of a terrorist. Think the al Queda true believers didn't think they had a point to what they were doing? Who cares WHY a terrorist acts the way a terrorist acts? Who cares if ,in their view , they're terrorists or that what they're doing qualifies as terrorism?
Charles Manson will give you a long elaborate argument about the rightness of his actions too. So what.
What you can't accept is that about 25% of this nation is taking action which will surely result in the destruction of the earth and human civilization. That's not hyperbole, that's not a melodramatic characterization of some social issue; that's a plain fact.
You can't reconcile that your crazy FoxNews - Limbaugh listening uncle Larry is going to be directly responsible for the end of human civilization. It's too big a jump. He's just harmless old man. But the fact is that there is nothing stopping us from taking the action we need to take EXCEPT the uncle Larrys of the world and the financiers and think tanks and media personalities that stoke their false beliefs.
The wretches at the CATO Institute and the Koch Brothers and psychotic, sociopathic scum at the Heritage Foundation and FreedomWorks and Fortune Magazine and the WSJ and Grover Norquist and Limbaugh and all the other professional deniers and merchants of genocide and their mouthpieces will end their lives on the business side of a hemp rope provided courtesy of the very United States Government they so loathe. They're the dead enders, people whose fates are sealed and whose recorded voices and writings are all anyone needs to convict them.
But it's more than the professional subhuman filth that is involved. It's civil war we're hurtling towards, thanks to your uncle Larry. When the world wide crop failures come, when the terrorists start their recruiting in earnest around American's denial of climate change and anti-American antipathy becomes a global tidal wave manifesting as humans from every corner of the earth wanting one thing and one thing only, to destroy this nation, when the full hell is unleashed because of fools like your uncle Larry and his jackassian evaluation of his own scientific credentials, then you'll see that people like me who you always regarded as over the top were in fact just telling you a truth you didn't want to hear.
Your uncle Larry is a genocidal maniac whether he believes that about himself, whether he intends that to be true about himself, or not.
The bloodiest most vicious wars in history are civil wars. Each side has exhausted sympathy with the other and every attempt at rational reconciliation has been played out, ad infinitum. Generally people can't wait for the killing to start and it's completely merciless when it does. That's what we're hurtling towards. You hate me and hate my voice and you hate what I'm saying and the way I'm saying it but has something else worked so far? How's that new scientific study influencing the other side ? It's me and not you who is actually provoking people to feel the fear they need to feel in order to act, who's painting the picture of our shared and certain future which we are ignoring because it makes us feel unhappy inside.
If rational argument was going to work, then it would have worked already. The rational debate is now 40 years old. Meanwhile, about 50% of the electorate is gearing up to vote a denier into the office of the Presidency from whence he will begin to build out the Keystone pipeline and seal all our fates absent the event of some technological miracle.
Deniers need to hear what the deal is. The deal is reality is going
Those of you with systems up and running with Peer1 should be thankful to the data center folks as well as the Squarespace staff who're pitching in big-time! If you want to know what's really going on, along with some pictures, check out their status page: http://status.squarespace.com
Basically, to address other folks' various questions: Yes, the generators are on the roof (along with a small start-up + several hour supply of fuel), but most of the fuel supply is in the basement due to fire codes, etc.. They switched over smoothly to generator power but the pumps to get fuel up from the basement went offline. They've been doing the bucket brigade since, and they did have various backup plans in place (and even a basic plan for a flooded basement & no grid power), but everything is basically in worst-case-scenario-mode right now. That is, difficulty getting fuel trucks to re-supply (though that's OK now), no air-lift available for the refueling on the roof, accessible backup fuel pumps not powerful enough and the right equipment can't get to them because of conditions throughout the rest of the city, and they've been trying to clear the basement of water for a good while now but it appears that in addition to the flooding there may be a water main break that's pushing water back into their basement as fast as the pumps take it out.
Given the situation, they're doing a hell of a job!
Certainly there are criticial datacenters that have been impacted. Exactly what criticial services are on Peer1 (which is where they are carrying fuel through emergency stairwells)?
What reality are they denying? The reality that either we will take world-wide coordinated action against carbon-induced climate change or ...
Except that reality is that mankind will not take world-wide coordinated action against carbon-induced climate change. That has nothing to do with "deniers". It has everything to do with the fact that India and China (and many other developing nations) have other priorities at this time. So, you had better hope that the "deniers" are more right than you are because that is the reality. There are several major nations that are only too happy to make deals with the industrialized nations so that the industrialized nations will cripple themselves, but those other nations have no intention of limiting their CO2 emissions if it means slowing down their own industrialization.
I will repeat, there will be no "world-wide coordinated action". There never has been, there never will be. The closest the world has ever come to "world-wide coordinated action" was when the British Navy imposed the end of the slave trade on the world with the reluctant cooperation of the rest of the world's powers (who only cooperated because the Royal Navy was in a position to pretty much effect that result whether they cooperated or not by making the slave trade too expensive to be profitable).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
How prevalent natural gas service is in NYC highrises? And another, was natural gas service disrupted in the latest conflagration?
If so - why the hell are those generators powered by diesel fuel? Back in the mid 2000's I spec'd out redundant power for a state office and their I.T. unit. a 125kW natural gas fired generator, full auto transfer switch, generator exercises monthly, etc. That was backed up by an APC Symmetra system that could keep the entire server room and I.T. unit powered for 90 minutes.
I work for the city. Happy to report that while we lost a lot of nodes and circuits downtown, none of our datacenters took a hit. We lost Mainframe DR replication for about 12 hours. No impact. 911 and 311 obviously experienced high call volume. 911 took no weather related hits, 311 saw about 2 minutes of weather related outage during a brief period where our two COs were flooded and we were in the process of switching to other trunks.
EXCELLENT work by the Cities workers throughout this event.
. That has nothing to do with "deniers". It has everything to do with the fact that India and China (and many other developing nations) have other priorities at this time.
Yeah what's going on is that China and India made a reasonable argument that they're not responsible for the C02 currently in the atmosphere, which is historically true, and wanted those responsible- Europe and America to take the lead cleaning up the mess they made with themselves making a smaller contribution. This makes sense since the US hs the most resources with which to implement reductions and cap and trade - a formerly Republican idea- was a viable economically palatable method through which the required reductions could be achieved. The rest of the world agreed. The US is now the sole non-signatory to Kyoto, thanks t the Republican opposition to cap and trade which they call "big government" and "socialism" .
In Copenhagen we have a world-wide agreement with definite targets but it is non-binding. This is what deal making looks like, it's what deal making has always looked like. It's not to my taste and I find it distressing however, it is what it is nad the process does lead to progress and agreements.
The question is not "will the world agree"?" The question is "will conservatives in America forestall necessary action for so long that the world spirals down into an unrecoverable abyss through some mechanism we either do or do not understand as of today.
So it's not true that China and India are "going their own way" or anything else. If you want to see what Kyoto and Copenhagen required of the signatories- of which China and India are both members "
It's a nonsensical argument anyway. If everyone is throwing grenades up in the air endangering everyone including themselves, the first thing you do is stop throwing grenades yourself irrespective of what others do.
I meant to say you should consult Wikipedia if you want to see what Kyoto and Copenhagen require of their signatories.
Just to put some more meat on the bones of this conversation, here's what 4 degree centigrade means to the earth- and remember, that is a number LESS than the one we're on track for today.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/apr/23/scienceandnature.climatechange
http://grist.org/climate-energy/what-would-it-mean-to-treat-climate-change-like-a-security-threat/
Wow, just wow. You really believe that. The European Union countries, which were theoretically all on board for the Kyoto protocols were further from meeting their Kyoto obligation than the U.S., which never signed on...You remember the Kyoto protocols, the ones that Clinton never bothered to submit to the U.S. Senate for ratification, but which the U.S. Senate vote 97-0 to reject?
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Broad St is the only street in NYC where the #'s go UP as you go south.
How about ... people pay them for the servers never to go down, even in an emergency. I'm sure the 150 people in my hosting cooperative are appreciating their efforts. Also, given that peer1 makes money from colocation, it's in their business interest to keep it running. TFA notes that customers have joined the bucket brigade, so I'm sure those folks think their servers are criticial.
HAL 7000, fewer features than the HAL 9000, but just as homicidal!
Yeah do you ever bother to think that something you say might get fact checked? For the EU-15 from http://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/ghg-trends-and-projections-2012/
Average 2008â"2011 emissions in EU-15 were 11 % lower than the base-year level, below the Kyoto target of -8 % for the period 2008â"2012. In the sectors not covered by the EU ETS, emissions were lower than their respective target, by an amount equivalent to 1.7 % of base-year emissions.
LULUCF activities are expected to decrease net emissions by an annual amount equivalent to 1.4 % of base-year level emissions. EU-15 intends to use the flexible mechanisms at government level by acquiring an amount of Kyoto units equivalent to 2 % of base-year emissions per year.
Taking all these effects into account, average emissions in the sectors not covered by the EU ETS in EU-15 were standing below their target level, by a gap representing 4.9 % of the base-year emissions.
The EU-15 was therefore on track towards its Kyoto target by the end of 2011. However, to ensure that the EU-15 reaches its common target, all of its Member States must achieve their respective burden-sharing target. Excess Kyoto units resulting from overachievement by some countries might not be available to the EU-15 for achieving compliance.
Oh I get it, you're not a "word and concept type " person. You need pictograms. Well, fortunately I have some handy:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/interactive/2009/nov/30/copenhagen-summit-world-carbon-emissions
That pretty much says , well, golly if it doesn't say EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what you were saying.
Do you ever get sick of being just plain wrong. I mean I know we're all writing in persistent-anonymous identities and what not but ... aren't you ashamed to show your persistent identity on line after you get caught out telling whale-size, exact-opposite-from-reality whoppers like that?
Just asking to get a datapoint for my little self-imposed project to try to understand the psychology behind denialism, especially the "I'm not a denier" type of denialism.
The pump problem is so easy to solve...
Use a freaking oil powered pump inside the fuel thank, attach another oil pump to the generator shaft and done, generator pumps it own fuel, and you can have all the water you want in the basement(given that the tank is sealed)..
So much for smart people...
What reality are they denying? The reality that either we will take world-wide coordinated action against carbon-induced climate change or we will extinguish human civilization. That's pretty much the definition of a terrorist.
Nope. Terrorism is the use of mass murder, industrial sabotage, and threats of same to achieve political ends, usually calculated to promote fear in a target population. We can refine it further, distinguishing the term from "war", "assassin", "murder", "freedom fighter", "mass shooter", etc., and enjoy the rich contradictions and ambiguities we would undoubtedly discover.
What we can't do is stretch the term to apply to everything that we disagree with... at that point, you're just trying to manipulate people in the same dirty way that FOX and other pundits do.
Here's a different idea: tell the truth. Viz., "think tanks and marketing firms that concoct lies to discredit global warming ARE NOT engaged in terrorism, they are engaged in something MUCH WORSE". Maybe it's not as catchy, but it still has a little bit of a hook while remaining honest.
Even better--in my view of these matter--would be not to focus your attack on tearing down the opposition, but on building a positive case. That tends to "play" better to undecided audiences, and too much vitriol (even if deserved) makes you look like the unreasonable party. Even better if you can inject humor, like this famous cartoon did. There's no shortage of emphatic opinions on the internet; honest, insightful wit on the other hand...
-1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
What moron builds a data center near the ocean? You know, oceans, big bodies of water that on occasion invade the land and swamp out buildings that have never had so much as a drop in their basements, where we put the generators... Cyclones and tsunami waves are the reason you don't build data centers near the ocean or Gulf of Mexico. Hello! Any kid in a 6th grade geography class can list the dangers of living so close to the water.
Yes every location has it's potential hazards. If it's not storm surge waves it'll be something else, but seriously, oceans and data centers do NOT mix! You know why people put a data center in NYC? Three reasons; One - the allure of having your data in one of the biggest cities in the world (read: source of pride and arrogance) Two - that's where the company is and having the data center at arms reach of the senior management belies their fundamental misunderstanding of the power of networks, and Three - That's where the big internet backbones originate, so we got to be there.
As for point #2 a few companies experienced something similar when the WTC buildings were hit and they lost either their entire data center of one of the fail over centers used for live backups or network fail over. You don't put data centers in tall buildings for most of the same reasons above.We have data centers in the plains states and if the expense can be justified, we bury the facilities that would be little affected by a tornado to keep them safe or minimize the impact the weather can have on the date center. So in summary I have no sympathy for the data centers that have been lost, destroyed, damaged. Idiotic management of such valuable resources breaks my "give a damn"
" Terrorism is the use of mass murder, industrial sabotage, and threats of same to achieve political ends, usually calculated to promote fear in a target population."
Murder? Check- the wanton deliberate and reckless taking of human life, in this case to further political and economic ends. The only part of this that anyone can dispute is "deliberate" .
It's not really that relevant whether they *mean* to kill hundreds of millions or not btw. Doing so is still manslaughter.
But I hold that it IS deliberate. I hold that inside themselves these individuals believe on balance that what they are promulgating is *wrong*. These are people with variously, oppositional-defiant personality disorder and extremist political and racial views . It's not a coincidence that global warming deniers are also that segment of the population who are right wing and racist. For both cases, the death of large numbers of other people is a trifling thing. For oppostional defiant personality types, the ONLY thing that matters is defying authority. That is the unconscious, ultimate good and nothing else matters, everything else is rationalized.
For the extremist political reactionaries at FOX and Forbes, the death of a lot of undesirable people in Africa and elsewhere is not something to particularly worry about and even more specifically if the US government can be overthrown through the device of bankrupting it or undermining general social order, then that's a good way to achieve their ends- the reordering of all of society to their liking.
It's not insignificant that Koch when he was running on the Libertarian ticket for VP espoused the disbanding of the CIA the FBI and nearly all of national security. He means to topple this nation as it is through any device he can. He gave up on politics (libertarians get about 2% of the vote in any general election) and has has happened across a lucky fact- if we do nothing about climate change, human civilization as we know it will simply unravel. In the resulting "what's left" , he'll be able to build a new world. This is how insane psychopaths reason. This is what goes on in their imaginations. Just as completely ordinary mainstream you work next to them Christians long for the Apocalypse and the wanton destruction and mass death that event entails, so also do other delusionists imagine that at the end of civilization its THEY and THEIR cronies who will be imposing order on THEIR new world.
Ditto FoxNews and Forbes. They know they're lying, they are consciously or barely-unconsciously aware they're acting in bad faith. People doing this should note with fear - a near future lie detector will definitely nail. Lying to yourself is not an undetectable, no-cost / no signal activity. We really want to get there. This is very very heavily funded. We're are getting there. It's coming.
Don't kid yourself, these people are deliberately building a bomb called "catastrophic climate change" and they mean to set it off.
That my friend is murder and if we have to expand the definition of murder to include it, we 'll do that.
Criminals think they're cleverer than the rest of society. Criminals believe they have a loophole in the law through which they can smuggle their criminal activity. The thing is, laws go wherever criminals lead. If criminals try to do X to harm society, then the law will go there. If they try Y, then the law will go there. It's criminals who ultimately decide through their chosen conduct what laws are created by society and what is counted as a criminal act, not visa-versa. The law is not static, and can even e retroactive if needed because the law is there to serve a purpose- to stop and punish anti-social behavior however it manifests itself. And we will do that, have no doubt.
The other idea of "being positive" has exactly zero effect on people like Koch Fox Murdoch Forbes and those who would follow them. What you're saying is get more people on your side by sounding positive. Has that worked y
Peer1 fails to take adequate measures to keep the power on.
Except that the new-hippie delusional tree huggers like yourself are loath to own or touch guns and the people you are uselessly frothing from the mouth at are not. You will also jealously cling to your ipad and iphone while apple continues to rape and pillage via "Intellectual Property"(really, please pick one you can't have both). But please, don't let the real reality (which is somewhere not at the middle or either extreme) get in the way of your delusions( i.e the y2k bug called, it wants you to stop copying its histeria meme)
and done in one
lets see:
Dewar tank diesel storage (twin metal, not metal/glass)
Archimedes screw diesel pump
So wrong on all counts and every *single* thing you said regarding "people like me" , what my opinion of Apple and patents is and the non-delusional reality of climate change.
Your post distinguishes itself by consisting entirely of false statements.
But he fact that I am not the least bit of what anyone would call unfamiliar with weapons and how to use them means nothing in this context since no one, especially me is considering taking the law into our own hands. We don't need to. We are the law. That's what democracy is about. There is zero doubt that the subhuman filth I referred to will, if they have the grave misfortune to live another 20 years , end their lives at the end of a hemp rope courtesy of a due process and jury of their peers.
An orderly society conducting itself within the confines of due process is these guy's worst nightmare. They're betting big on chaos. We are society; we are the rational truth telling children and inheritors of The Enlightenment and they are the enemies of civil society, or greater order of rationality itself.
Our power lies entirely in the orderliness of society, in the well functioning of civil society and the well being of its citizens. Why do you think they attack the public good ? Why do you think Koch wants to do away with the FBI and the CIA , a state he calls "freedom"? Why do you think he wants to suppress the vote? Why do you think he wants to devolve us into individual fiefdoms - The Confederacy called it "States Rights" and declared war on the United States over it. Why do you think they pushed fro Citizens United?
Because all that is the enemy of representative democracy , a system of government The Koch's and Paul Ryan's heroine Ayn Rand had nothing but contempt for. They hate representative democracy, they hate the Untied States of America they hate our system of government and the power it gives to :"ordinary" citizens, including the power to find them guilty of Crimes Against Humanity and to put a noose around their necks.
Social order, due process, facts, a reality-based populace able to make their voice heard all these things are what our power base consists of and as long as those things hold together , they're fucked.
Why do you think the Governor of Texas is always talking about secession? Why do you think Norquist et. al. are always bashing the government? Why was it a Republican operative who whipped up a frenzy over provably non-existant "voter fraud" and used that to repress votes ? Why do you think Norquist has stated that taxes are worse than the Holocaust and he wants to take the federal government and drown it in a bathtub? Because a government by for and of the people is the worst thing that ever happened to this kind of scum criminal. Law and order and reality based thinking are the sworn enemy of this filth, and they know it .
Please. The last thing anyone on our side is going to do is start to take the law into their own hands. We'll leave that to them, to their "2nd Amendment solutions ",.....and then destroy them utterly, completely and finally when they do.
Yep, there' s more ways than one to tear someone's head off and shit down their neck and throw their lifeless worthless corpse in the fucking gutter.
Well during the big afternoon and part of the evening blackout event of San Diego county, ALL power was cut off in San Diego, but the natural gas was still flowing at my house... that's how I cooked a pasta dinner for myself. Also all my co-workers' gas was still working... although some of them didn't have matches or lighters to ignite the gas since the electric igniters on the stoves were not working.