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Ask Slashdot: The Search For the Ultimate Engineer's Pen
First time accepted submitter Laser Dan writes "I'm an engineer (robotics) who can't seem to find a pen that satisfies me. Most of my writing is just temporary "thinking notes" on random bits of paper, like diagrams, flowcharts, equations etc, but pens always seem to have one or more of the following issues:
1. They write too thickly — I write very small, and when I start adding extra details to diagrams it gets even smaller. A line width of about 0.2-0.4mm would be good.
2. The ink bleeds, making the lines thick and unclear.
3. The ink is slow to dry or the tip grows blobs of ink, causing smudges everywhere.
4. The first line drawn is not fully dark, as the ink takes a short distance to get going.
5. The lines drawn are faint unless you press hard (I don't).
I have been given several fancy pens (Parker etc) over the years but they all suffered from problems 1, 3 (blobs), 4 and 5. I'm considering trying a Fisher space pen, but it looks like even the fine cartridge writes rather thickly. Have any fellow Slashdotters found their ultimate pen?"
1. They write too thickly — I write very small, and when I start adding extra details to diagrams it gets even smaller. A line width of about 0.2-0.4mm would be good.
2. The ink bleeds, making the lines thick and unclear.
3. The ink is slow to dry or the tip grows blobs of ink, causing smudges everywhere.
4. The first line drawn is not fully dark, as the ink takes a short distance to get going.
5. The lines drawn are faint unless you press hard (I don't).
I have been given several fancy pens (Parker etc) over the years but they all suffered from problems 1, 3 (blobs), 4 and 5. I'm considering trying a Fisher space pen, but it looks like even the fine cartridge writes rather thickly. Have any fellow Slashdotters found their ultimate pen?"
It's called a pencil.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Added benefit: clean revisions.
Anything less would be uncivilized.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
If these are just temporary notes on just scraps of paper, why not just use a mechanical pencil? Line isn't thick, doesn't bleed, and can be seen pretty easily.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Try these, thank me later: Pilot Hi-Tec-C Pens
This should satisfy your needs: Inkless Metal Pen. I have one..... Somewhere in the mess of my desk. It works really well! I haven't had any long term results yet, seeing as I don't know exactly where it is, but I love(d) it!
http://www.cultpens.com/acatalog/Browse-Types-Features-Ink-Colours.html
This is not a signature.
I like the look of a gel pen better, but the space pen has too many advantages, for direction, temperature, durability, and good design (I have one of the 'bullet' ones that when capped is half size. You can run them through wash *and dry* cycles and they still work and don't ruin your clothes.
No joke - I've settled for those cheap papermates. They rarely clog, don't bleed, and don't give me any guff. The line thickness might be tricky but worth checking out.
My wife is an artist and is crazy particular about her tools. She also swears by them and was who got me into using them.
Try using a Kuru Toga 0.3mm or 0.5mm --- the lead rotates so it is always sharp. Uni-Ball just released them in the U.S. (or you can buy imports from Japan).
Pentel RSVP - fine, very smooth, and very fast. I've never used a pen that glides like these do - plus they're fairly cheap.
Apparently 0.7mm is too thick for Mr. Writes-Really-Small.
I'd recommend a 0.2mm mechanical drafting pencil, but there's an even simpler solution: don't write so damn small.
As a bonus, your notes won't look like they were written by a serial killer.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Micron felt tip. I'm also an engineer and it's what I use to scribble.
if you can't find it in this or another search of the same site, i think you're out of luck: http://www.jetpens.com/search?q=pigment+ink
i don't know exactly what the difference is between a fiber-tip pen and a "pigment ink liner," but the latter go down to 0.05mm (that's not a typo, i really mean 1/20th of a millimeter). they are fiber pens, so they don't have a ball feed, which should be good news for your other requirements.
i stole a 0.1mm a few months ago and apparently destroyed the tip just by writing delicately (and i do have some experience with extremely fine pens), so you'll have plenty of use for that light touch of yours.
if you want something more artistic in your off-time, i've heard that experienced chinese calligraphers can control their brush pens to where they can write essentially with a single hair. might be a fun hobby.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
I've tried nearly every pen out there, including the technical pens for Koh-I-Noor. I've found that the pricier pens are usually just better looking, but few if any are more reliable than the cheapest Bic pens. I believe this is due to R&D and manufacturing capabilities.
That said, I prefer fine line pens as well. Since i find refillable pens too messy (ink blots, clogs, cleaning between refills, etc.) my favorite pens for the last several years have been the felt tip pens, the Sakura Microns 005 for fine lines, and 05 for a hearty thick line. They have archival ink and it's very dark, about as black as possible and dries instantly. All my engineering undergrad notes are on white archival paper and written in this ink, looks very nice and doesn't fade. The tip is something like a specialized felt tip but it never spreads, and I've yet to have one dry out before I lose it. Best of all they're relatively cheap at around $3 each and available at any art store.
I've searched for the perfect technical pen since I was a kid, and since I've found these I've used them consistently for several years now.
Zoloft and cognitive behavioral therapy? There have been a lot of advances in the treatment of obsessive compulsive disorder over the years.
A quick google search turns up this:
Sakura Pigma Micron 005 Marker Pen - 0.2 mm - Black
It's not a pencil, it's crazy thin, and (being a marker pen) should have none of the problems listed. The comments suggest that it's not good for people who write with "a heavy hand" which suggests that you won't need to press down very hard.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Not perfect, but they last and have ready supply of replacement ink, all the great colors... Just need pocket protector.
Can't think of a better pen than the Pilot V5
I'll second that - the Palm Pilot V was great for taking notes. Once you learn Graffiti.
I bought one for fun thinking it was a gimmick. Nope it works. What it does is each time you lift the pencil off the page it rotates the lead a tiny bit to prevent a chisel tip. This keeps the line width from changing. Very nice.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
1) Find a goose.
2) Pluck a large quill feather.
3) If the point isn't fine enough, keep plucking
Note: the goose will probably be annoyed after your first choice. Annoyed gueese have a way of convincing you that your current quill selection is good enough.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
Doesn't work for the line thickness requested. Has all of the cited problems with finepoint raven nib. Runs dry quickly.
The reasons are quite simple: blood coagulates shortly after being exposed to air. This causes it to gel up and plug the vein on the quill/nib, resulting in irregular line width, globs on the sheet, dry tip, etc.
Blood is a horrible pigment for penning. You need at least a goose quill size nib just for flow properties, and will have to discourage clotting with something like alcohol. Even still, it doesn't really fix that great.
Not to mention the obvious: it being gross, unhygenic, and bad for the quill/nib and paper.
India ink is superior in every capacity.
If you are looking for a substitute for india ink in a stick pen, (india has several noteworthy problems, especially for teensy weensy text) try using some McCall's black food coloring. (Really just a mixture of FD&C Red #40, Blue #2, Yellow #5, and propylene glycol.) Other than spotting on contact with moisture, it has very good lettering properties. It dries on the page almost instantly, even with a heavy line pressure. Kinda pricey though.
Being halloween, it should be in stock at your grocier's.
And it isn't as nasty, gross, and weird as using blood. :D
I have handwritten with Staedtler technical pens for years. The 0.5 mm size is my preferred compromise since it gives a thin writing line, but is easier to maintain than their thinest-diameter pens are.
My use is for writing notes, really small, in the margin of a Bible. The ink from a technical pen never bleeds through the thin paper, and the writing still looks fresh after 40 years.
A technical pen also makes fine works of art (pen sketching), if you have the talent for that.
To make such a pen last longer between cleanings, store it tip upwards. Mine resides on my desk in a shot glass.
The Pilot V5 breaks after I take it on an airplane(*). The pressure change must break a seal or something, because from then on it will bleed around the edges and leave ink all over my fingers. In general it is a great pen that is easy to find in shops, but for being called a "Pilot" pen, it sure doesn't handle flying well.
This here sir, is the pen you are looking for. Anything else is just common garbage.
google search for Pilot G-Tec-C4
It comes in both 0.2mm and 0.4mm, although I would recommend 0.4mm on thinner paper.
It is a steel tip gel rollerball pen, and the ink dries fairly quick and writes evenly unless the tip is dirty,
which is a little difficult to clean. It can a fair amount of pressure while writing as well.
It somewhat recently became available in America and is available in multiple colors as well,
although I have been using them for years by importing them from other countries.
Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
Buy them here
This is one of the nerdiest posts I've seen in a long long time.
As just a normal IT nerd and regular to slashdot, thank you for continuing to come here, it's good to see some really smart guys here.
I always like hearing good old 60's / 70's / 80's stories from people like you regarding big cool interesting projects / problems - not just same old IT stuff you can get anywhere.
This is why I keep coming here, unique people and history.
P.S - can't help with your pen problem, I'm just one of those normal nerds. Try a palm pilot!
The reasons are quite simple: blood coagulates shortly after being exposed to air. This causes it to gel up and plug the vein on the quill/nib, resulting in irregular line width, globs on the sheet, dry tip, etc.
What if you're a hemophiliac? Maybe their blood is better for use in pens.
What kind of engineer needs to ask hundreds, or thousands, about what type of pen to get?
Yeesh... yeah. You're an engineer, not a teacher. Just take whatever they stock in the supply cabinet at work and be happy with it! And if it sucks, well, it's their loss in quality of your work output :P
But seriously, I would ask what Samuel Silva uses for :
http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/talented-lawyer-draws-stunning-photo-like-ball-point-pen-portraits.html
Personally, I would just find some cheap mass manufactured pen that was comfortable to hold and get good at controlling it. If one started having problems with globing or irregular coverage, I'd just pitch it. But I remember doing lots of ballpoint pen drawing/shading as a kid and rarely running into problems.
For a quick comparison, I can write as small as the date that appears on a penny with a Fisher Space Pen. http://i46.tinypic.com/34zzpyh.jpg However, you will have issues with its ink smearing like any other pen.
As a seasoned engineer, I heartily endorse the pencil as a proper tool. However, I suggest that a 0.9mm line is a better choice for nearly all of your work. The key is that must write larger, write more confidently, and make your work legible at a distance.
I too once wrote with fine-tipped pens and pencils, finding joy in compressing my work onto individual lines of 5 lpi graph paper. I have learned, however, that writing large allows more scrutiny of one's work, and enhances the ability to communicate more effectively.
Get a pencil and start writing larger. For $4, the Pentel Twist-erase III, 0.9mm, is my weapon of choice.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
They pretty much are never going to wear out under normal use. If you get a refillable pen, be sure to buy the special ink intended to go in them. Regular india ink will make a huge mess if you try to use it in them.
If you use quality india ink, it works fine. My mom is a graphic artist who has spent probably collectively years working with those pens (classic rapidographs) and that's all she uses. Her work has won numerous awards. Also, the pens may not wear out, but under normal use, the tips go quick. That's why statistically nobody uses them for writing letters &c.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I used a cartridge-refillable Rotring ArtPen for years and considered it the Holy Grail of pens, but eventually I ran into problems replacing the ink cartridges. I'd order direct from the manufacturer (for some reason even the big art stores never kept the cartridges in stock) and invariably the ink would be low-quality, diluted, and prone to leaking right out of the pen. I had the same problem with the Rapidographs. Cleaning the pens didn't help. Replacing the pens/nibs didn't help. Storing them nibside-up didn't help. About $100 later in cartridges and new pens, I finally gave up. Now I use Sakura Micron disposable drawing/drafting pens (they come in .8, .5, .3, .1, and .05 mm thickness) and they work fine--no bleeding or blobbing, but I still pine for the smoothness of the Rotring pens (the Microns "feel" just a bit too dry to me, but I'd be willing to bet most people aren't so picky about their pens as I am). Maybe I've just had bad luck, though. Certainly a number of commenters seem to be having great experiences with the Rapidogaphs, so perhaps it's time to try again.
There do exist models (the Koh-I-Noor, I think) that connect the pen to an inkwell with a miniature hose, but I've never had a chance to try them.
You assume that he has religious beliefs. All he said was that he takes really small notes in a bible. He didn't even personalize it to say his bible.
Now, given that he is writing notes, it's quite possible he isn't an unquestionning sheep. Why notes? Is he questionning the dogma? Is he a researcher? Perhaps he is an ignorant inconsiderate prick like yourself and likes to sneak into church and write dirty limericks alongside Psalm 23?
Your lack of logical thinking is a control mechanism far more daunting than religion.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.