Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: The Search For the Ultimate Engineer's Pen
First time accepted submitter Laser Dan writes "I'm an engineer (robotics) who can't seem to find a pen that satisfies me. Most of my writing is just temporary "thinking notes" on random bits of paper, like diagrams, flowcharts, equations etc, but pens always seem to have one or more of the following issues:
1. They write too thickly — I write very small, and when I start adding extra details to diagrams it gets even smaller. A line width of about 0.2-0.4mm would be good.
2. The ink bleeds, making the lines thick and unclear.
3. The ink is slow to dry or the tip grows blobs of ink, causing smudges everywhere.
4. The first line drawn is not fully dark, as the ink takes a short distance to get going.
5. The lines drawn are faint unless you press hard (I don't).
I have been given several fancy pens (Parker etc) over the years but they all suffered from problems 1, 3 (blobs), 4 and 5. I'm considering trying a Fisher space pen, but it looks like even the fine cartridge writes rather thickly. Have any fellow Slashdotters found their ultimate pen?"
1. They write too thickly — I write very small, and when I start adding extra details to diagrams it gets even smaller. A line width of about 0.2-0.4mm would be good.
2. The ink bleeds, making the lines thick and unclear.
3. The ink is slow to dry or the tip grows blobs of ink, causing smudges everywhere.
4. The first line drawn is not fully dark, as the ink takes a short distance to get going.
5. The lines drawn are faint unless you press hard (I don't).
I have been given several fancy pens (Parker etc) over the years but they all suffered from problems 1, 3 (blobs), 4 and 5. I'm considering trying a Fisher space pen, but it looks like even the fine cartridge writes rather thickly. Have any fellow Slashdotters found their ultimate pen?"
It's called a pencil.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Added benefit: clean revisions.
Anything less would be uncivilized.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
0.7mm pencil
http://officesupplygeek.com/pen-review/gel-pens/pilot-g-tec-c-4mm-review-and-a-sign-of-things-to-come/
If these are just temporary notes on just scraps of paper, why not just use a mechanical pencil? Line isn't thick, doesn't bleed, and can be seen pretty easily.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
My mechanical pencil of choice is the Pentel Graph Gear 1000. Well worth the money, the one I have now has lasted me over 3 years, which is not bad compared to other pencils/pens that would have clips snap off or otherwise get lost within a year.
My UID is prime... is yours?
It may not work for you but I really like the Zebra F402 and have used them ten years without unhappiness.
Try these, thank me later: Pilot Hi-Tec-C Pens
Try Copic Multiliners, they come in very small nib sizes, and they've always performed well for me. They're designed for inking illustrations(ie, comic books) so they're fairly high-quality. Available at your local art store.
This should satisfy your needs: Inkless Metal Pen. I have one..... Somewhere in the mess of my desk. It works really well! I haven't had any long term results yet, seeing as I don't know exactly where it is, but I love(d) it!
Bic Clic, they stop when they run out (and absolutely no amount of scribbling will get them going), and not before, and write fine and clean, don't bleed. A slight problem where the paper/ink creates a small mess on the end of the pen, it is visible though, and easily fixed.
Google only finds them in New Zealand and Australia.
http://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/red/catalog/product/BIC-Clic-Fine-Blue-Pen?SKU=1364118
http://www.cultpens.com/acatalog/Browse-Types-Features-Ink-Colours.html
This is not a signature.
I like the look of a gel pen better, but the space pen has too many advantages, for direction, temperature, durability, and good design (I have one of the 'bullet' ones that when capped is half size. You can run them through wash *and dry* cycles and they still work and don't ruin your clothes.
No joke - I've settled for those cheap papermates. They rarely clog, don't bleed, and don't give me any guff. The line thickness might be tricky but worth checking out.
My wife is an artist and is crazy particular about her tools. She also swears by them and was who got me into using them.
Pilot V5 RT. It's the 0.5 mm Pilot V5 Rollerball in a clickable package. Ink looks great, dries much more quickly than gel ink.
What about an Artline felt-tip if it needs to be ink? You can get 0.2mm ones, and they are great. Or, if it doesn't have to be ink, my not a mechanical pencil? No bleeding, no ink-lag, and you can get nice dark 4B refills.
Try using a Kuru Toga 0.3mm or 0.5mm --- the lead rotates so it is always sharp. Uni-Ball just released them in the U.S. (or you can buy imports from Japan).
Dip a quill in your blood.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Pentel RSVP - fine, very smooth, and very fast. I've never used a pen that glides like these do - plus they're fairly cheap.
I wanted a gel multipen, since all the multipens I've found are ballpoint and I find ballpoint ink annoying. I'm currently using a Zebra Sharbo X from jetpens, which is basically a build-your-own-pen kit. You can get ink refills which use either ballpoint or gel ink, with a size from 0.4 mm up. The form factor is also the same as a standard pen. The basic set can be a bit pricey, but I've found it very good.
These pens are fantastic. They come in a variety of thicknesses (.25mm and up), are super smooth, don't bleed, and are relatively affordable. Highly recommended. Pilot Hi-Tec-C Pens
Fountain pen, custom cut tip, no-bleed ink. You can be a fine, as you want when you're making your own tip for a pen that way.
Om, nomnomnom...
Micron felt tip. I'm also an engineer and it's what I use to scribble.
Lots of colors, nice, erasable (don't leave a smudge after erasing). Fine and ultra-fine tips.
I don't know how long each cartridge lasts though.
if you can't find it in this or another search of the same site, i think you're out of luck: http://www.jetpens.com/search?q=pigment+ink
i don't know exactly what the difference is between a fiber-tip pen and a "pigment ink liner," but the latter go down to 0.05mm (that's not a typo, i really mean 1/20th of a millimeter). they are fiber pens, so they don't have a ball feed, which should be good news for your other requirements.
i stole a 0.1mm a few months ago and apparently destroyed the tip just by writing delicately (and i do have some experience with extremely fine pens), so you'll have plenty of use for that light touch of yours.
if you want something more artistic in your off-time, i've heard that experienced chinese calligraphers can control their brush pens to where they can write essentially with a single hair. might be a fun hobby.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
I've tried nearly every pen out there, including the technical pens for Koh-I-Noor. I've found that the pricier pens are usually just better looking, but few if any are more reliable than the cheapest Bic pens. I believe this is due to R&D and manufacturing capabilities.
That said, I prefer fine line pens as well. Since i find refillable pens too messy (ink blots, clogs, cleaning between refills, etc.) my favorite pens for the last several years have been the felt tip pens, the Sakura Microns 005 for fine lines, and 05 for a hearty thick line. They have archival ink and it's very dark, about as black as possible and dries instantly. All my engineering undergrad notes are on white archival paper and written in this ink, looks very nice and doesn't fade. The tip is something like a specialized felt tip but it never spreads, and I've yet to have one dry out before I lose it. Best of all they're relatively cheap at around $3 each and available at any art store.
I've searched for the perfect technical pen since I was a kid, and since I've found these I've used them consistently for several years now.
Zoloft and cognitive behavioral therapy? There have been a lot of advances in the treatment of obsessive compulsive disorder over the years.
I originally came across the Pentel Slicci 0.4 mm in the stationery department in Tokyu department store, in MBK center, in Bangkok, Thailand. I bought a few then. I have since stocked up by mail order.
The line is as fine as a Pilot Razor Point, but not scratchy, and the tip is a ball tip as opposed to the Razor Point's fiber element, which can be broken if you drop it on a hard floor.
As far as I know, the Slicci is not available retail in the United States. Mail order through the Web, or eBay, seem to be your only options. (Or fly to Bangkok...)
They also make a 0.25 mm version, but I find that the line from that one is too faint and it feels scratchy.
A quick google search turns up this:
Sakura Pigma Micron 005 Marker Pen - 0.2 mm - Black
It's not a pencil, it's crazy thin, and (being a marker pen) should have none of the problems listed. The comments suggest that it's not good for people who write with "a heavy hand" which suggests that you won't need to press down very hard.
Required reading for internet skeptics
Zebra Sarasa 0.3 or 0.4mm retractable gel ink pen sounds like the pen you are describing.
http://www.jetpens.com/Zebra-Sarasa-Push-Clip-Gel-Ink-Pen-0.3-mm-Black/pd/6365?gclid=COmf-JTfrLMCFcN_Qgod5BEAsw
I have a
I have a Fisher space pen and it writes well enough, but it globs occasionally and is thicker than the average ballpoint.
I don't currently own a technical pen, but I agree with the guy who posted a link to some. Technical pens are where it's at for that sort of thing.
https://www.facebook.com/digitizeicm -- Show your support for the digitization of the Iron County Miner newspaper archiv
Not perfect, but they last and have ready supply of replacement ink, all the great colors... Just need pocket protector.
Regarding complaints 1 - 3: I'm afraid you also have to consider the other side of the equation. The paper absorbs the ink, and it's grain and texture determine how the line is presented. If you're going to be picky, you need to use quality paper, matched to the task. Those loose pages you grab out of the printer tray are clay burnished to be mechanically fed at high speed, and are intended to be embossed with thermoplastic toner, or ultrasonic sprayed ink.
Fisher space pen.
http://www.amazon.com/Fisher-Space-Bullet-Pen-Matte/dp/B000WGD13U/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1351737896&sr=1-1&keywords=tactical+pen
TWSBI Diamond 540 - super fountain pen, not too pricey and is essentially airtight so the ink doesn't evaporate. It also comes with tools to fix just about every part, including a little bottle of lubricant. http://www.twsbi.com/product.php?id_product=10 Noodler's Bernanke Black/Blue - virtually instant drying on most paper. No joke, you can write a line and waggle your finger over it trailing after the pen and it simply won't smudge. http://www.inknouveau.com/2011/02/noodlers-bernanke-black-and-blue-fast.html Fountain pen will give you nice smooth flow, the nibs go down to 0.2-0.3mm should you need it.
I like the Zebra 301 and 402. The 701 is more expensive with the same ink cartridge. For documenting charts all day, its the only pen I use. It doesn't bleed, no blobs, pretty consistent line. Its not expensive either.
While I prefer the larger tipped version, I've used the micro before and it has a nice, clean small line. Great line of pens in either size.
I tried writing with one of those Bic pens, but the ergonomics were so bad it left me with a burning sensation.
Blank until
http://www.pentel.com/store/hybrid-technicatm-gel-pens
I have used them for 20+ years now, and I still love it.
Search for 'quad pen (franklin,yasutomo)' on eBay.
I use black for most notes, blue for TODO items, and red for reminders.
I don't use the pencil much, but it's a 0.5mm.
The tip is fine. Maybe the only issue would be #5, but it's not any worse than a regular ball point pen. It hasn't been a problem for me.
A little spendy, but my current one is going on 15 years.
Don't steal. The government hates competition.
Lamy Safari - with either the Fine or Extra Fine nib.
http://www.jetpens.com/Lamy-Safari-Fountain-Pen-Extra-Fine-Nib-Lime-Green-Body-Chrome-Clip-Limited-Edition/pd/9180
Pick a stand out color for the pen (I picked yellow so I can find it amidst my desk of infinite crap.
You can either go with the pre-filled cartridges that just pop in, or you can get a converter that allows the pen to suck ink out of an ink bottle.
In either case, the ink flow is immediate and consistent. It feels more like you are depositing ink onto the paper than you are rolling a gummy ball around.
It's geeky, and practical at the same time.
If you want a cheap way to check out fountain pens before spending $30 or so, then just go to Walgreens and pick up a Zebra FP fountain pen. It's a fine point, and will give you a cheap introduction to see if it's for you.
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing for money.
Another vote for the G2 .05
Can't think of a better pen than the Pilot V5
I'll second that - the Palm Pilot V was great for taking notes. Once you learn Graffiti.
I'm sure you all have seen those cheap pens with multiple colors, German manufacturer Lamy used that concept and produces pens with 2, 3 or 4 functions.
I have the 4 functions one, currently black ink pen, red ink pen, mechanic pencil and PDA stylus (not of much use anymore... fortunately one can put another ink cartridge instead).
The pens are metallic ball point cartridges, because they have to fit in a very small space the ball point is small, producing neat writing.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I know, Sharpie markers bleed. But this pen doesn't. It's a fine point (I can't seem to find the specs though), you don't have to push down hard, always produces a consistent dark line, and it's acid-free/archival quality. I have to keep them in my car because my boss kept "borrowing" them from my desk drawer. They're usually about $2 each.
Pilot G-Tec-C4 is .2mm wide rollerball gel pen. This is the pen you seek.
http://macromeme.com/cat/dad-troll-island.png
It will be better to purchase from an owner who is a good farmer and a good builder.
I bought one for fun thinking it was a gimmick. Nope it works. What it does is each time you lift the pencil off the page it rotates the lead a tiny bit to prevent a chisel tip. This keeps the line width from changing. Very nice.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
Huh! I didn't know there were others who thought as I do about pens. I'm careful to hide how specific I am about pens, as I've assumed that I was one of about three people in the world who cared much. My favorite pen is the Zebra F-701. They don't accumulate much gunk, and leave a consistently thin line, though I'm not sure that it'll meet your exacting needs. (When the Zebra pen does accumulate gunk, I just clean it with a tissue.)
My favorite writing tool is a Staedtler 0.2mm drafting pencil, though I also use a 0.5mm pencil. For marking wood, I use a 0.7mm or 0.9mm pencil, for durability.
Instead of using random bits of paper, look for an engineering pad. I find them at staples. I'm not sure what they do differently with the paper, but it seems to be slightly more durable. I appreciate this as I've been known to erase work to make corrections. (The outfit I work for supplies pads, but I prefer to use my own, as the paper is better.)
Last thing: I bought a Fisher Space Pen 18 or so years ago and absolutely hated it. The durn thing seemed to be happy to write, but it also left ink blobs everywhere. Yech!
1) Find a goose.
2) Pluck a large quill feather.
3) If the point isn't fine enough, keep plucking
Note: the goose will probably be annoyed after your first choice. Annoyed gueese have a way of convincing you that your current quill selection is good enough.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
I have a similar taste in pens, and I've settled on the Pilot G-2 0.38mm.
The ink takes about 2-3 seconds to dry. That fits my quick drying criteria; yours may be different.
Other than that it fits the bill. You can get them at staples for maybe $7 for a six pack.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
I'd suggest the sharpie liquid pencil. Seems to address the short comings of pencils and doesn't smear or run like a pen.
http://m.sharpie.com/enUS/Pages/sharpie-liquid-pencil.aspx
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_pen
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001J5MBKW
$72 for a full set but you can by them individually as well.
Pricey but you get what you pay for. I've had a set since I was 10. Still the best tech pen I've ever tried. Perfect for diagrams, fine line drawings and annotations of such. Not great for general writing.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
I have to write very small commentary in pilot's logbooks. The only pen that accomplishes this properly is the Pilot G-2 0.38. Available at Office Max but not Office Depot.
The IPCC has purposely engineered a massive scientific fraud.
(1) Old school drafting pens, with 00 or 000 size tips -- Rapidograph, Kohinoor, Faber, and others
Pros -- fine lines, don't need to press, with film inks you can write on glass, or just about anything
Cons -- need special ink, cranky, leak if you take them on planes, drop them and you're out $20 for a new tip
got to wait for the ink to dry or it smears, getting harder and harder to find
(2) Fountain pen with XF nib
Pros -- fine lines, don't need to press, lots of ink colours and you can blend your own
Cons -- at least $60 - $80 for a good one, you can't let anyone else use it once you have it broken in
(3) Pentel Precise V5 and V7
Pros -- cheap! fine lines, reliable
Cons -- not as good as (1) or (2), but not as expensive, either
Copic pens are what I use. Definitely can't push hard with the disposables but the aluminum bodied ones are amazing. Then again I get the sense that you want a different style of pen.
Available as a set at Dick Blick These are no Sakura pens, these things are made for professionals!
I KUT J00 M4NG!!!
I concur with your list of complaints about pens, and have personally settled on using the Uni Ball Vision Elite (fine), which comes in variuos size nibs, as my all purpose pen. That said, in the days before convenient personal computing (I abandoned my paper log book in 1995) I addressed the issues you raise in two ways: 1. Using different pens in different situations; and, 2. Selecting the right paper on which to write.
In many ways, pens and paper are like wines and food: the are good and bad pairings. The right paper with the right pen makes all the differnce. My favourite pen and paper pairing were a technical pen with vellum. Another favourite was an early liquid ink roller ball (not sure what brand) wtih dark blue ink on yellow coated paper.
Some of the simplest pens are the best. I'm a writer (books, poetry, news) and carry around a notebook and pen in place of a wallet (money and ID stuffed in the back of the notebook). I've tried fountain pens, fancy expensive pens, and all sorts of the new ones out there. But I find the simple, cheap pens are actually the best. My recommendations: Pentel EnerGel Liquid Gel Ink pens - they come in different widths (I like the 0.7). You can make very long lines with them and the width won't change. You can hold the pen down on one spot of the paper and it bleeds very little if at all. The only downside is that the ink dries just a bit slower than your regular ink, so I sometimes smudge it a bit if I accidentally lay my hand on the ink just after making a mark. Staples Comfort Stic 1.0 - These are some of the cheapest, yet best pens out there. The ink flows well, dries fast, and despite their simple design, they're reliable.
Parent makes a good recommendation. I own several Parker Vectors and Lamy Safaris -- both can be had metal, which is more durable than the plastic variety -- with fine and x-fine nibs, and they are great, inexpensive* fountain pens. Ink is cheap and plentiful on eBay, or you can use a converter and a bottle of just about any make/color that pleases you. I like a lot of Noodler's Ink; I keep one pen especially for their super-intense stains-like-the-dickens Baystate Blue. Great for signing documents.
One thing I have always loved about fountain pens is that by changing the angle of the nib -- even turning it 180 -- you can change the size of your writing. Great for sub/super-scripts.
The only downside is that I always feel a bit guilty when someone asks to borrow my fountain pen and they turn out to be a southpaw. Lefties may get ink on their hands if they're not used to such things.
*you won't have a heart attack if you lose it or lend it out and don't get it back.
A preposition is a terrible thing to end a sentence with.
I hammer on the thing constantly, and it keeps taking it. All of my previous pencils have failed due to the fact the tips are not retractable and get bent.
This one retracts and protects itself from me.
It is now ready to debark on a two year tour of Calculus which I will start the first week of November.
In case you are curious, this isn't a pen. It is a pencil, which I can't imagine why you would want a pen for any engineering activity or doing mathematics. Dump the pens and do the 5mm pencil.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
if you have one near by you...
www.muji.com
multiple colours, multiple pen sizes.
Or just check your local higher end asian (preferably Japanese) convenience store that sells school supplies. They definitely have what you're looking for!
http://www.dickblick.com/products/alvin-penstix/
I already posted about technical pens but will add these as they are the smoothest drawing pens.
Used them for years to do illustration work.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
I was just shopping for pens the other day... I picked up a couple of mechanical pencils and I replaced this cheap Parker that I've fallen in love with another. http://www.amazon.com/PAR7803211-Retractable-Ballpoint-Medium-Barrel/dp/B00275YMAU/ref=sr_1_23 They like to wander to off, so I don't know what good it'll do you? but everytime I pick up one of these I'm satisfied and I stop looking for a pen and start writing again. They write small, smooth, and have a comfortable heft. Dry quickly and have blue ink. I have a more expensive parker and it kind of sucks. I think I just need to replace the ink cartridge. I do know pens need maintenance, maybe you're not taking care of your pen, OP? Parker does generally make pretty decent stuff and on the ink cartridge it says www.parkerpen.com Ballpen Refill [1.0][M] if M is for medium... So I'm thinking you could probably even find something finer, though how it writes I don't know.
Prismacolor fine line markers. I love my set of 5 in 005, 01,03,05, and 08.
I find the Rapidograph size 0 to be exactly right for the sort of tasks mentioned. I've used one for decades. Size 0 gets more use than all of the other pens in the set put together.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
I have handwritten with Staedtler technical pens for years. The 0.5 mm size is my preferred compromise since it gives a thin writing line, but is easier to maintain than their thinest-diameter pens are.
My use is for writing notes, really small, in the margin of a Bible. The ink from a technical pen never bleeds through the thin paper, and the writing still looks fresh after 40 years.
A technical pen also makes fine works of art (pen sketching), if you have the talent for that.
To make such a pen last longer between cleanings, store it tip upwards. Mine resides on my desk in a shot glass.
Seems pretty obvious to me: The Pilot HI-TEC-C 0.25mm
Super thin, extremely consistent, line (no blobbing, faint-spots, or slow starts), widely available in a range of colors, and rather cheap.
The HI-TEC-C line has been around for ages, and there's a reason it remains popular in the crazily volatile world of mass-market pens...
We live, as we dream -- alone....
Quick search shows Sharpies in 0.2, 0.3, and 0.4 mm, they will bleed slightly on crappy paper but on decent stock they are great. My top choice for many years.
My go to pen is the CountyComm Embassy Pen Loaded with a Fine Point black Ink Fisher Space Pen Refill. I have had mine nearly two years now and it's easily the best pen I have owned. I'm hardly an expert on the subject but it really fits my needs.
The most common complaint is the cap does not seat to the back of the pen. This is an issue for some and to others a trivial problem. If you buy the propaganda, holding onto the cap will remind you to get your pen back when you lend it out.
I steal hotel pens whenever I travel, which these days seems too frequent. Most are either Bic or Paper Mate medium point and seem to work very well for note taking. If I wind up with one that blobs or has a sticky ball, it's no issue to toss away. I've got several that both write and doodle perfectly.
- If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat? - Steven Wright
I use Pilot EasyTouch. Look on http://www.staples.com and search on pilot easytouch . I buy medium retractable, a dozen each of black, red, blue, and give some as gifts. I never notice skipping or blobs. Fine point is available. The simple retractable ones (NOT "Pro") have a clear barrel so that you can observe the mechanism, a great nerdy touch.
At least, when I was there, the NRAO facility in New Mexico had Zebra F-301 BP ball point pens in the stockroom for any sufficiently intelligent-looking person to use.
As an artist, I love doodling and sketching with ball point pens, wanting to vary from light fine details to a firmer line, and then write some math or a grocery list, then doodle more. I'm happy with 0.7mm lines from the F301, but Zebra probably makes other pens with skinnier lines.
I used to like one of the big brands because it used to be okay, but then their product seemed to go downhill, blobbing more than I like (zero).
A few others have mentioned fountain pens, but all new ones. Older pens, in good condition with decent quality to begin with, will blow away new ones for writing quality. I'm currently making notes (for my latest internet startup) with a red ripple hard rubber waterman 52, ~1924 but pretty much never used until I got my paws on it. It's a heavily flex nib which means I can write with it almost as a needlepoint for fine notes, but can still get bold broad strokes at any time I want for effect and flourish, and for signing funding documents. It's unlike any pen most people under the age of 50 or 60 have seen, and no one tries to borrow it. I can change the ink color any time I want.
Slightly more modern, parker 51s from the silver age of penmaking are widely available, reliable as all get out, and can be had in XF nibs. They're not flexy, though, but once given a good cleaning and possible replacement of rubber parts, will last another 60 years.
I use one of the following:
Bic round stic black: http://www.artstuff.net/assets/images/bicgsmp101bk.jpg
Sharpie Ultra Fine Point: http://s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/officedepot/451898?$OD-Large$
Sharpie Fine Point: http://pensfast.com/assets/sharpie/autograph/sharpie-fine-point-autograph.jpg
9 years doing interviews in the field. Best pen for my work is a Pigma Micron 002 black. You can get them at Michaels and Joannes (craft stores) for about $3 each. If you order them online in bulk, you can get them down to around $1 each. Thinnest line, doesn't run, reliable. The only down side for me was that I wore the writing tip out in about 3 weeks per pen, but that's pages and pages of notes per day.
6. relatively affordable to replace one or twice a year when you misplace them
7. compact version to fit in the pocket of a moleskine.
8. Made in a country with basic human rights.
The Fisher fine cartridge doesn't write super fine, but Fisher does meet my made up 6th, 7th and 8th requirement.
Parker (UK) fits 6 and 7 as well. There are adapters to put a Fisher cartridge in a Parker pen. Which is nice because I like the classic Parker Jotter body more than any fancy all metal pen body.
Cross pens fails on all counts.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I hate uni-ball, the ink doesn't dry fast enough for a lefty. Fisher forever!
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I've settled on these as a pretty good pen that I'm also not going to mind losing. Good lines, not too thick on the fine, lasts well, inexpensive enough.
fencepost
just a little off
Have you tried the Sakura Microperm?
http://www.penisland.net/
Takes a while to learn, but once you get it it is entirely repeatable. Get a small nib size.
It has a pressurized ink cartridge like a space pen, but it's much cheaper and because it has a rubberized grip, it's much easier to hold.
It comes in 0.7 and 1.0 mm line widths and variety of ink colors. The line width isn't as fine as you might like, but then neither is the space pen.
I assume that when you said Parker pens, you meant the really nice and expensive models. But the cheap (about $5) Jotter is the pen that fits all of my needs. I write like a left-hander, with the side of my palm resting against the paper. So the ink has to dry quickly, or it will smear. The Jotter ballpoint is one of the few pens that works for me in this respect. Another reason I use it is that it's solid metal, and won't break or leak in my back pocket, so I can always have it with me. I'm not sure if it's available in fine point for your small writing, but I think it meets all your other requirements.
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
solid stainless steel, nice ink action, refills available in several sizes.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
The Pilot V5 breaks after I take it on an airplane(*). The pressure change must break a seal or something, because from then on it will bleed around the edges and leave ink all over my fingers. In general it is a great pen that is easy to find in shops, but for being called a "Pilot" pen, it sure doesn't handle flying well.
I think that every engineer on planet earth should have -A mechanical pencil -A Protractor -An engineer's scale ( those three sided rulers) -Calipers - TI83/84 I'm not one of those old school flannel wearing engineers, I do most everything on a computer, but there is a lot of value in having a traditional drafting desk with tools like this, regardless of what type of engineering you do.
This here sir, is the pen you are looking for. Anything else is just common garbage.
google search for Pilot G-Tec-C4
It comes in both 0.2mm and 0.4mm, although I would recommend 0.4mm on thinner paper.
It is a steel tip gel rollerball pen, and the ink dries fairly quick and writes evenly unless the tip is dirty,
which is a little difficult to clean. It can a fair amount of pressure while writing as well.
It somewhat recently became available in America and is available in multiple colors as well,
although I have been using them for years by importing them from other countries.
Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JNHJ/ref=wms_ohs_product
Uni-Ball Gel RT Micro Point
0.38mm
I have tried several other thin pens over the years and have settled on this one. I think my co-workers like it too, because my pens keeps disappearing, but I now have pretty good supply of them in case they stop being produced.
I use two writing devices these days.
Pilot Precise V5 http://www.pilotpen.us/ProductGroup/711-Precise-V5-V7.aspx
I discovered these in college, and have never looked back. I buy them in bulk, they last forever. Satisfies all your requirements except maybe #1, and that depends on finely you draw. Also inexpensive.
and the Pentel Twist Erase III http://www.pentel.com/store/twist-erase-iii-mechanical-pencil
I started using this in my High School drafting class, to the chagrin of my teacher at the time. He told me if my drawings went down in quality, he wouldn't let me use it any more.
It's been 20 years. I don't know what I'm going to do if either company quits making them.
If neither of these works, find a drafting supply store (or, I guess, an art store these days, or a Ben Franklin if you live on the East Coast), and go through the pen aisle. Unlike Staples/Office Depot, those stores will frequently have pens in bins instead of blister-packed. Take a pad of paper with you, and test some candidates. Find a representative group that might work, buy one of each, then use them at work. Find one you like, buy them by the dozen.
Reeses
The Zebra Surari is hands down the best pen I've ever owned. Girlfriend (who writes a lot more than I do) agrees, and has refilled hers twice (I always lose pens before I have to refil). Here is a decent review with some ink durability tests: http://penaddict.com/blog/2010/10/1/review-zebra-surari-emulsion-ink-pen-05-black.html
These are my favorite sketching / writing pens.
Read all about them here.
http://www.sakuraofamerica.com/Pen-Archival
Those guys are building a neat metal casing for the Hi-Tec-C ink cartridges: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/205734763/pen-type-a-a-minimal-pen
Semantics is the gravity of abstraction
I prefer the Pilot Hi-Tec-C. I use the 0.3mm size, and it fits all the requirements. It is gel, comes in many colors, and is cheap. http://www.amazon.com/Pilot-Hi-Tec-C-Gel-Basic-Colors/dp/B001GR4CQO
+1 to all those who cited the Zebra. Relatively cheap, no mess (and I'm a lefty), fine detail for my tiny writing. There's a gel variant - avoid that.
Buy them here
Lamy 2000 (fine point) with Noodlers Black ink. It's what I use.
I love the Uni-ball Signo .38. I've never had it blob, and it ususally starts writing immediately, so no need for scribbling.
This is one of the nerdiest posts I've seen in a long long time.
As just a normal IT nerd and regular to slashdot, thank you for continuing to come here, it's good to see some really smart guys here.
I always like hearing good old 60's / 70's / 80's stories from people like you regarding big cool interesting projects / problems - not just same old IT stuff you can get anywhere.
This is why I keep coming here, unique people and history.
P.S - can't help with your pen problem, I'm just one of those normal nerds. Try a palm pilot!
Pilot G2 is rather popular but maybe it's not exclusive enough? There are other contestants to. Their Dr Grip may be more comfortable.
Personally I prefer their one with a fatter ball. But I don't know where I have it atm so I don't know what it's called.
BPS-GP medium? May that be it? I think it says 1.0 and it write smoothly which is what I like with it.
http://www.gulakatten.se/bilder/artiklar/zoom/6804306_1.jpg ? Like so.
Nothing special. Price in that store is about 2.5 dollars so you can probably get it from 2 or so.
Why don't you ask this at the Fountain Pen Network? http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/
An extra-fine fountain pen would be perfect. Modern European or American nibs tend not to be as fine as they were in the past. If you want something really fine, I'd recommend either a vintage pen such as a Parker 51. Or a Japanese pen such as a Pilot / Namiki. Or you could go with a custom extra-fine nib made by a nib expert such as Richard Binder. A fountain pen is not a cheap option but nor does it have to be extremely expensive. And it's a myth that (as someone posted here earlier) no one else can write with your fountain pen once you have "broken it in". There's really no breaking in required.
I have about a dozen fountain pens and I like them so much that I rarely write with anything else.
For many years I used Koh-i-Noor Rapidograph Pens. They were great for drawing and writing, at least for me.
Link to the Koh-i-Noor Web Site
"Koh-I-Noor's Rapidograph Technical Pens are remarkably versatile pens that handle like a pencil, moving in all directions without snagging or digging into the drawing surface. Point sizes, ranging from very fine to very broad, are capable of achieving an engraver's perfection, a loose sketching style or a finely detailed pointillist technique. Rapidograph Technical pens are available in 13 different stainless steel nib sizes. Each pen is refillable and most are sold individually or in sets."
They are not horrible expensive. So you can try one and see if you like it.
YMMV
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
What kind of paper is the OP using? Cheap paper (newsprint) will cause ink to run no matter what the quality or type of pen and/or ink. I would guess this depends on the type and size (length and diameter) of the fibers that make up the paper. A high quality, fine point ball point pen on the wrong paper will cause smearing and running of the ink. You must try different papers with a variety of pens to get optimum results.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
Maybe you won't find your ultimate pen there, but you gotta admit, "penisland.net" is a great URL!
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
I agree, it's time to upgrade. I lost the charger to my scrap paper anyways.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
My favorite pen of all time is Pentel Energen 0.7mm pen. Smoothest pen I have ever used.
The dark black ink has a super-high-contrast and comes out in a perfectly uniform way.
I believe they make a 0.5mm version, but I have personally always returned to the 0.7mm.
This is the exact pen I use: http://amzn.com/B001P3Y72I
Look at the material you are writing on. No matter how fine a point you go, or how rapid drying the ink is, it will always bleed.
Paper absorbs moisture - any moisture.
Those globs of dry ink can be caused by the fibres in the paper as the ball/cup scrape across the surface removing dust like particles.
Yes, "Better" is part of the name, and they truly are.
.5 mm tip but it writes much more fine than that. I once legibly signed my name (Grant S. Robertson) with one in about 1/4 of an inch. Not .25" HIGH... .25" long and only about 1/16" high. You can't do that with any gel pen or drafter's pen. It writes on just about any surface, including photographs and thermal receipt paper. It never globs up. It rarely needs to be "started" by scribbling on a piece of scratch paper. The line is even, without those spaces where you can see that the ball pushed the ink out of the way as with cheaper ball-point pens. They last a really, really long time. They don't look fancy so no one will steal them from you. And they are super inexpensive. You can get some here: http://www.amazon.com/Better-Ballpoint-Retractable-Ribbed-PIL30000/dp/B00006IEB8.
I have used this pen for decades now. (OK, not the same one.) It is listed as having a
I even got a bunch of refills so I won't ever have to worry about doing without them for at least ten years.
Prefer the V7 myself - I like the flow of the ink better. I've used them since college. I live the feel of the 0.7 best, works great on my drafting notebooks, but the 0.5 size is good also.
I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
What kind of engineer needs to ask hundreds, or thousands, about what type of pen to get?
Yeesh... yeah. You're an engineer, not a teacher. Just take whatever they stock in the supply cabinet at work and be happy with it! And if it sucks, well, it's their loss in quality of your work output :P
But seriously, I would ask what Samuel Silva uses for :
http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/talented-lawyer-draws-stunning-photo-like-ball-point-pen-portraits.html
Personally, I would just find some cheap mass manufactured pen that was comfortable to hold and get good at controlling it. If one started having problems with globing or irregular coverage, I'd just pitch it. But I remember doing lots of ballpoint pen drawing/shading as a kid and rarely running into problems.
Here's something you can probably convince the mailroom at an office to buy:
Uniball Micro Deluxe. 0.5 mm and waterproof ink. It will start instantly until it gets low on ink but you'll probably ditch it by then anyhow because it starts exhibiting dropouts around the same time.
The one downside is that although the ink is waterproof once dry, it is NOT smudge-proof UNTIL it is dry. If you drag any part of your hand through what you recently wrote, you're going to get a partially black hand and an illegible mess on the page. Once dry though, even leaving your coffee cup on the page will net you nothing more than a coffee ring. The writing won't move. This is why I use it for (now very rare, notation software is SO much easier) hand-written music, and for corrections on documents that are going to be passed around (including corrections to printed music).
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Uniball Signo or 207 RT, or anything with the UMR-1 0.38mm cartridge in it.
I think you would enjoy the Pilot BP-S. The "S" stands for "small", which helps with small writing such as yours and mine. The "BP" stands for "Ball Point" -- in this case an exquisite ball which does not emit blobs, and is always wetted with ink and ready to roll.
The Pilot BP-S is best when combined with National Brand 42-182 graph paper.
So I am a bit of a pen fan, and I use fountain pens... They arent necessarily the solution for you, but this leads in to a really important consideration...
Paper.
What paper are you using? Maybe try a better quality paper? I use whitelines:
http://whitelines.se/
and the paper is AMAZING. No bleed (which is also a factor of paper), thick paper, the white lines is an awesome feature, etc.
DO NOT use the moleskine paper... it is just crappy.
Next to cover the things that you can't handle with the Galaxy, get a pen ( more about choices later ). Use Noodler's ink. Most inks will run on paper when wet. So will many versions of the Noodler inks, however they offer a line of inks that are water soluble but when contacting paper they become permanent. ( I really should read the paper to figure out the process. ) Basically they contain a chemical which when it reacts to cellulose will make the ink nonsoluble in water. Noodler's is constantly tweaking their inks, so I cannot say what new inks they have now, and they always have something new. Just check out their web sites.
As for which fountain pen. Get a quality expensive fountain pen and it will last you quite a while. The one I discovered that writes the finest is the Namiki Falcon, though I do not know if it is still being made. Others you can get that would be good would be the Pelican Souverain series which comes with bodies of different sizes, M1000 being the biggest. On the really expensive side is the Yard O'Led Grand Victoria series, but if you like a pen that has heft it is worth it.
Finally if you cheap pens with really, really small nibs, try isellpens.com opr hisnibs.com and get some of the Chinese pens. An extra fine on those is way smaller then anything you find in the US or Europe.
As for messiness I find that fountain pens are cleaner then ballpoint pens, On the rare occasions, cleanup is easier because the inks have to be water soluble or they clog the pen.
You can tweak the viscosity of the ink by adding stuff. Add a little water and the ink flows slower, making a thiner lighter line. Add a drop of soap to a cup of water, then take a drop of that into your ink and you will get a heavier, thicker line. Don't add soap to the ink directly. A little goes a long way and is likely to make the ink just gush out of the pen.
For a quick comparison, I can write as small as the date that appears on a penny with a Fisher Space Pen. http://i46.tinypic.com/34zzpyh.jpg However, you will have issues with its ink smearing like any other pen.
As an aside, yes, that was the correct usage of "its".
If you want a very fine-tip pen, you need to start looking into Japanese imports. In the US, you spend about $5 on a several pens. In Japan, you spend that much on one. As such, Japan has a thriving pen/pencil market--very high quality pens and pencils, the latest technology, great materials, and fairly cheap prices. I've seen pens in Japan with writing sizes as small as 0.18mm. As some people have mentioned above, JetPens is a great site to purchase them for cheap.
It's a 0.3mm mechanical pencil intended for drafting and such... I've used these since College and have yet to find anything even close to their level of quality. Available on Amazon and the refills can be pretty cheap... I got a pretty decent supply (I've barely dipped into it in 2 years) for maybe $12.
Ditto Parent, Rapidograph pens rock. They are pens that are used for drafting and drawing, and they come in a whole range of sizes. The disposable technical ink pens are cheaper, but I love the refillable ones. They pretty much are never going to wear out under normal use. If you get a refillable pen, be sure to buy the special ink intended to go in them. Regular india ink will make a huge mess if you try to use it in them.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I use one everyday in the lab and I never had any of the problems you have. It might be a bit thicker than 0.4 mm though http://www.amazon.com/Caran-Dache-Ballpoint-Metal-Black/dp/B000WFXTI8.
I stumbled upon this brand while signing my motorcycle repair bill. Started ranting to the repair tech about how nice it was, and he let me have it. When I got home and looked up the cost I couldn't belive they weren't more expensive than Cross pens and was just blown away that they were cheap enough to buy by the pack:
The magical and revolutionary iPen will be sleek, minimal and syncs beautifully with your iCloud account. If you can't afford it, wait till Samsung rolls out their droidPen - designed for writers!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I only use ball pens that I abduct from hotel lobbies etc. They are usually quite good, much better than the official office supply at work. Plus they make a nice souvenir. The wooden ones from Scandic are beautiful, too. They suffer from a very short ink tube, but the unlimited supply compensates that.
Say out loud: I'm an Aspie and I'm somewhat proud, I guess. Uh. Can I write an email in all caps instead? Hm...
Do you have an advice for ink?
I had a Sheaffer Targa with fine nib - i have never had a better pen. it's shame that they are no longer made, but ebay is your friend!
Muji has amazing pens for notes, drawing, etc. Cheap, robust, reliable, good quality ink, etc. All thicknesses.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
Here is another site, they are more of a Stationery reviewer, rather than be restricted to writing implements only: http://www.penciltalk.org/
I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!
But since about age 7 my ultimate pen has been the "QWERTY keyboard".
I've had issues with writing my whole life and my handwriting was never very readable. As a result I write in block-letters to preserve readability at a massive cost of speed (in school I often got very high marks for WHAT I wrote but nonetheless failed because I simply could not finish exams in time AND let the examiner be able to read my answers).
So I prefer typing whenever possible, I literally can't ever find a pen when I really HAVE to use one because I avoid them at all other times.
Even if I have to fill in a form - I will usually scan it in, type in the answers, and just sign the final printed version.
I do however touch-type at more than 10 times the highest word-speed I can achieve while writing.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
I hate to do this but I do have more than a little experience with choosing writing implements. I graduated from an Architecture school where we were required to carry a pen at all times (theory being you can find something to write on more often than to write with). Needless to say my classmates and I have tried just about every commercially available writing implement from crappy Bic pens to Mont Blanc fountain pens. So what won? Nothing. It's all personal choice. You just have to keep trying different pens until you find the one that works for you the way you want. For me, I like the Pilot Precise line, Extra Fine. Why? The ink is thin and won't blob unless fuzz gets on the nib. It writes very nice clean lines until it is almost out of ink. It doesn't hesitate like Bic pens. The only drawback is that the ink will take a few seconds to dry on really smooth or glossy surfaces (velum or photo paper). Plus, the buggers are cheap! At roughly $2.00USD each it's not that big a deal when you lose one. Losing a Mont Blanc or a Koh-i-noor pen is bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. Bottom line, taking someone else's advice on buying something that personal isn't going to help. You gotta slog through the morass and find your winner.
1. The foam that appears when adding water to sugar and yeast.
2. The tickling on your tongue when you touch a 9volt battery. (dont do this take my word for it)
3. The word Gable.
Seriously, news for nerds?
http://www.awfullybigmoustache.com
Agreed. I just wish they hadn't discontinued their Callipens line, but I see by your link they now have Calligrapher markers in 3 nib widths. Not as elegant a form factor, but I'll take one of each.
Thanks!
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
I'll second the .28 mm uni-ball signo. It's the best thin-line pen I've ever used. It's great for doing neat, precision writing, but I can't write very fast with it. In my opinion the .18 is a little too small. I haven't tried the .38 version.
I've also tried the Pentel Slicci .25 mm pens, as mentioned by other posters, but I don't like them as well.
For a thicker-writing pen, I highly recommend the Uni-ball vision elite micro.
... if only he'd been able to find a smaller pen.
"... and more and more now there are all kinds of electronic goodies available" -- Pink Floyd 1972
As a seasoned engineer, I heartily endorse the pencil as a proper tool. However, I suggest that a 0.9mm line is a better choice for nearly all of your work. The key is that must write larger, write more confidently, and make your work legible at a distance.
I too once wrote with fine-tipped pens and pencils, finding joy in compressing my work onto individual lines of 5 lpi graph paper. I have learned, however, that writing large allows more scrutiny of one's work, and enhances the ability to communicate more effectively.
Get a pencil and start writing larger. For $4, the Pentel Twist-erase III, 0.9mm, is my weapon of choice.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Unfortunately,I've yet to find a journal program which:
- allows a (configurable --- angle, width, pressure response) chisel edge
- honors rotation input
- has handwriting recognition
I use Futurewave Smartsketch, Alias Sketchbook, MS Journal and Evernote on a Fujitsu Stylistic w/ daylight display.
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
You need to consider the paper you are using as well.
Ink bleeds because of the paper, not the pen. The ball doesn't start rolling because of the paper (and lack of friction between it and the ball), not the pen.
Paper does make a difference.
I tried a Uniball once and my experience was like spraying ink with a firehose, no matter what paper I used with it. I finally found a paper that didn't bleed whatever ink they're using, but I ended up with puddles that took forever to dry as a result.
But, maybe it's just a matter of perspective, or maybe I got a defective bunch or something.
If you're going to be leaving drawings out where they'll be exposed to sunlight, whether or not the inks are light fast is going to be important if you want to use your drawings in the future.
Some cheap pens will fade rapidly and be difficult to read (especially for thin lines) in a matter of months.
(As a note, this is why I tend to stick to pencil)
I have two different Zebra Sharbo X multi-pens. They are the perfect pens. Full stop. The weight balance is perfect (particularly on the LT3 model). They have interchangeable colors, ink type, and tip sizes (I like the 0.8 mm ball points, but they have them down to 0.4 mm which is very small). Each one has a pencil and two different inks. They also have a stylus option for some strange reason. Go get one. Trust me. They are Japanese and only available in the US via JetPens (http://www.jetpens.com/Zebra-Sharbo-X-Multi-Pen-System/ct/786).
Gelly Roll Classic Fine 0.3mm. It's what you need. They're cheap, pick one up and try it. I know it's thicker than what you want, but it's real easy to write with.
Australian running a company that does C# / C++ / Java / SQL / Python / Mathematica
You haven't had problems with the Sharpie liquid pencil making inconsistent lines? The "ink" runs dry intermittently in the ones I tried. I was disappointed, because if it worked properly, that would be my go-to writing tool.
There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
As an engineer, I believe that Scott Adams has it right, once again.
I had the same problem until I bought the following pen:
http://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Dr.-Grip-4-1-4-Color-0.7-mm-Ballpoint-Multi-Pen-0.5-mm-Pencil-Series-I-Silver-Body/pd/2267
along with the following paper:
http://www.jetpens.com/Kokuyo-Campus-Todai-Series-Pre-Dotted-Adhesive-Bound-Notebook-A4-8.3-X-11.7-6-mm-40-Sheets-Pack-of-5/pd/5373
It made a big difference. Besides the consistent and smooth flow of ink this multi-pen also has a mechanical pencil built in. It allows you to write small. The only issue I have with this pen is the eraser. It is small but I try to keep a bigger one around like http://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Foam-Eraser-Size-10/pd/2526.
My kids are in high school now and ordered both of them a multi-pen and they love it.
Hope you find what you are looking for.
MY PEN!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy0UpRIncYM
www.clarke.ca
I've used a Mont Blanc rollerball refill inside a G2 Pilot case effectively. I get an awesome result at a reasonable price. Article here on the tweak.
My only flame is I want to order more refills, but the Mont Blanc refill website is showing up with an expired certificate. Guys, renew! I want to throw money at you!
It's not a perfect pen, but the Uniball Vision is my pen of choice these days. (The Elite model specifically.)
1) The 0.5mm tip is thin enough for my usage.
2) There's no bleeding on standard weight printer paper.
3) Drying can be a problem, especially on credit card receipts which aren't very absorbant, but on above mentioned printer paper or regular notebook paper it's usually dry by the time I finish my thoughts, meeting, etc.
4) It's difficult, although not impossible, to tell apart the beginning and end of lines.
5) No issue with needing extra pressure.
Extra bonuses: No bleeding out the tips during airplane flights, and cheap.
I'm not sure if you'd like it, but I think it's worth you getting one to try out if you haven't already.
I've been buying them by the box since everybody in the family was stealing my pens already.
Now, if I find a pen in the house that won't write, I throw it in the trash. Scribbling to get a pen to start is for people who hate technology.
n.b. it's not the smallest point ever, but we've had cheap reducing technology for 40 years now. If you're trying to put fine details on something drawn too small, you're doing it wrong. Y'know, comic strips are drawn 2' wide, not 6", despite how they might appear in the newspaper.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Retractable with the smallest tip I've found that isn't felt. I've tried many different pens in 16 years of doing physics and this one beat them all so far.
My Pen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy0UpRIncYM
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -HLM
The first day in Architecture studio you learn to use pens. Nearly all the problems you describe are not specifically issues with the pen, but incompatibility of the pens and the media you write on. Different pens are appropriate for different media. This is a mistake you make several times in your first year before you start setting aside test sheets to identify which pens you can use appropriately on the media you are presenting on. My suggestion would be to stop writing on random pieces of paper and buy a decent notebook with quality paper.
Personally? Uniball Micro. Perfect balance of usability, ink color, balance, weight, etc. I'm left-handed, too, so quick-drying ink is essential.
I find most "fancy" pens to be too large, preferring a narrow, unadorned barrel. I write a lot, and each pen lasts months. And their blue ink is gorgeous.
I have boxes of them in storage in case they ever stop being made.
I know you're really here looking for pens, but I gotta point out that the TUL mechanical pencils I have are my favorite writing tool. The weight is well balanced, the grip is just right, and it just works. http://www.amazon.com/TUL-0-7mm-Mechanical-Pencils-Pack/dp/B002VL6960/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1351778004&sr=8-2&keywords=tul+mechanical+pencil Beyond that, truth be told, you could do a lot by amassing the right stationary.
I'll second the Fine Point Zebra F301 Pens, made for over over twenty years now I think, and it's the only pen I ever use.
What kind of plane? My understanding was that commercial airliners are pressurised these days to roughly the equivalent of being in Denver.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You're an engineer, design and build the perfect pen yourself! It's as if Andy Warhol asked for someone to sell him a painting of a soup can. I mean, wtf??
Free Martian Whores!
I picked up a box of both the 0.18 and the 0.28 gel pens... wow! I was taking notes in between the lines of a single spaced page. Great stuff! A bit rough on super fibrous paper, but worth a shot.
That reminds me - I should look about getting a refill order.
Uni-ball Signo Bit UM-201 Gel Ink Pen - 0.18 mm - Black
Uni-ball Signo (DX) UM-151 Gel Ink Pen - 0.28 mm - Black
If most of your writing is temporary, invest in a few white boards. As someone who writes very small in ink, it will take you some time to adjust, but when you're used to it, you'll never look back.
I'll second the Fine Point Zebra F301 Pens, made for over over twenty years now I think, and it's the only pen I ever use.
I'd third the recommendation. I actually use the Zebra F301 and the PIlot Easytouch, but the Zebra kicks ass in a few ways. First, it's of uniform diameter over its whole length and it doesn't have and rubbery ergo-grip stuff, so it slides in and out of elastic pen holders easily. It's almost all metal, which makes it feel a little more engineered. It's got a bit more "heft" (kinda like an iPhone 4). Lastly, it's compact. It's not any bigger around or longer than it needs to be to house the ink and to brace against the webbing between your thumb and index finger. Oh, and the clip is flat, so you can set the pen down in a "clip-down" orientation... which I find inexplicably soothing.
BTW, now that there are 500 comments, I doubt the OP wants to sift through the responses counting votes. How about a poll?
http://www.jetpens.com/Uni-ball-Signo-DX-UM-151-Gel-Ink-Pen-0.38-mm-Black/pd/306
I like the uni-ball pens pretty well. They have very dark black ink, not the greyish squiggles that most pens leave. Plus, they write immediately without the dry tip that lots of pens have. It may leave a small glob at the start though and it takes a minute to dry so if you touch it right away it will smear.
The new pen I have found that I like pretty well is the Tul pen and pencil. I got the one with the cap, not the retractable. I think the retractable is a gel pen so I don't know how good it may be. The pen has a pretty good black, not quite as dark as the uni-ball, but not really a grey color either. It is a very fine line and it has no glob at the start, but there may be a slight bit of dry ink at the start of the writing. It isn't as bad as most pens that have that characteristic, but it does exhibit that problem slightly. I bet the glob vs dry tip are a trade off and it would be hard to find a pen that doesn't have one or the other of these traits. One of the things I love about the pencil is that the eraser holder has a screw thread that pushes it out further for when it gets warn down. Most mechanical pencil erasers are pretty useless as they wear down quick and then that's it.
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
What, exactly, is a mil-spec aluminum barrel? To be more specific, apparently, it's "sulfuric acid hardcoat anodization" because it's type III.
I guess, if you hate your anodization rubbing off, this is this pen for you!
Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
The Yasutomo Gel Stylist. It only goes down to .5mm, so it might be too big for your needs. I found it to be extremely smooth writing and resistant to globs. I doubt you will be able to find it in a store unless you have a good art supply shop nearby. http://yasutomo.shptron.com/products/category/Gel+Stylist+Pens+0.5mm/407.0.1.1.14716.14746.0.0.0
The Uniball Signo 207 Micro is also very good and much easier to find.
I'm surprised these haven't been mentioned. I saw them on J-List some years back and ordered them from Japan. Since then, I've found JetPens to be a better supplier--it's domestic, so shipping is cheaper and faster (for NA at least).
I've compared the .18mm and the .28mm version with the .25mm version of the Hi-Tec-C pen. The difference in build quality was immediately noticable--with the Signo Bits being the clear winner. The .28 Signo makes a thinner line (on the paper I used) than the .25 Hi-Tec-C. The Signo pens didn't require as precise of tip angle, either. They also have less drag, but that's a matter of taste.
I'd recommend picking up a .18mm and .28mm Signo Bit in your choice of color and giving it a shot. I tested their inks resistance to various solvents a long time ago and they came out pretty good. Not as good as the Sakura pens, but, being ball tipped pens, they write upstrokes without grabbing.
I use the P-500, and heartily recommend it, but you do have to be careful on airplanes. The trick to keep them from leaking is that you have to hold it pointing up when you first open it. I give it a few flicks, open it, and give it a few more flicks. This seems to let the pressurized air trapped above the ink escape.
At least, since doing this, I haven't had any more pen failures.
The Bic Cristal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bic_Cristal I was addicted to pricey pens, then realized how much I was throwing away when the good old Bic actually writes smoothly, writes nearly forever, and comes by the dozen for roughly the same price as one fancier pen. Puts down a .4mm line, with little 'blobbing' that I have noticed.
First and foremost - Skilcraft US Government pen, fine point. They write *forever* and I have never had a line bleed or morse code along a ruler. Nice fine lines. My everyday pen. Slightly thicker than you are asking for, but meets the other criteria. Always ready to write. I pulled some 20 year old stock from a storeroom and they started writing right away. No excessive force needed. *cheap*
Second - Zebra F701. Wonderful pen. I've had mine for about 3 years now. Durable and good looking. Finer and better looking ink text and lines. Meets all your criteria and is a joy to hold. All stainless construction.
Third - Fisher space pen, matte black finish. I've had it for 10 years. The ink is a bit smudgy and stays wet for a long time. It's been supplanted by the Zebra. Does not meet criteria 1 or 3. The finish is a bit slippery and fatigues my hand during long sessions. Strong enough to use as a stabbing weapon.
The Zebra and Fisher live in my uniform, even when hung up in the closet. They serve me faithfully and I never let them out of my sight. I'll give away the Skilcrafts all day but get anxious if my "babies" are lent out.
Hi-Technical Excellent Taste and Flavor!
I'm sure there are expensive specialty pens that will do what you want, but if you're just searching for an everyday pen that you can pick up from Walmart and lose in the parking lot the next day check out the Pilot G-2's. They come in fine (0.5) and extra fine (0.38), plus numerous colors (I like color coding things). I don't have any of the issues that you bring up, but I probably don't write the same way either.
I used to use them to mark film for imagesetters, very precise, and would dry quickly even on the film.
They are refillable, but you do have to take care of them. Check out the Koh-I-Noor Rapidograph technical pen No. 3165 at 0 .18 mm. But get a kit with refillable ink, also available in sets of multiple sizes.
The blue pens were $2 less, so I bought those instead. So far it only has a single 2-star review complaining of "skipping" when drawing a line, i'll post a review there myself after i've gotten mine.
-==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
I used Rapidograph pens all through college, and still have several of them. The "sweet spot" for an engineer's notebook was the 000 size, although I often carried both the 00 and 0000 sizes instead. I knew one guy who carried the 000000 size, but the lines were almost too fine to see, and they tended to cut up the page.
Anything finer than 00 was a maintenance nightmare, though. They clogged easily, and the wire that ran up the tip was likely to bend during cleaning, ruining the tip for good.
Nowadays, I just write with a traditional fountain pen, with as fine a tip as I can get. These suffer from problem #3, especially if the page gets wet later, but they write a beautiful line.
Other than that, I have a "Sanford Uni-Ball ONYX fine" on my desk that I use when I've mis-placed my fountain pen, and it also writes a superb line. It also will make carbon copies, which neither a Rapidograph nor a fountain pen can do.
Fountain Pen, Japanese EF nib, Noodler's Bernanke Blue (or Bernanke Black) ink for quick drying.
Yes, the Pilot Precise V5 is my favorite at the moment. It is a 0.5mm tip, so it may not qualify on one of the OP's requirements, but other than that it is a fantastic pen. A commodity item, so you can find it everywhere for a decent price. Very good ink and writing feel, and it has a cap which makes it pocket-friendly. The only downside I can see is that the ink penetrates into the paper quite well, which means that writing on both sides of a piece of paper is less than ideal.
A Pentel Energel 0.5 is my usual instrument to overwhelm mighty swords at my desk, but I almost always carry a Fisher SpacePen too, because it's damn convenient and writes anywhere on anything.
load "windows7"
What kind of plane?
Commercial airliners (e.g., 737, 747, A320, A330, etc.). I would have also thought that the presurization was enough to not matter, but my emperical experience is that it (unfortuntely) does.
Please mod up.
"Life is not magic." Dr. Ron Weiss - "If we don't play God, who will?" Dr. James Watson
I will second Zebra's line, suprised to have read down this far to find someone recommending them. I personally like the Telescopic, but the Sarasa's are insanely nice with their gel-ink.
I know what you're thinking. Did I forward 65,535 packets or 65,536 packets?
You assume that he has religious beliefs. All he said was that he takes really small notes in a bible. He didn't even personalize it to say his bible.
Now, given that he is writing notes, it's quite possible he isn't an unquestionning sheep. Why notes? Is he questionning the dogma? Is he a researcher? Perhaps he is an ignorant inconsiderate prick like yourself and likes to sneak into church and write dirty limericks alongside Psalm 23?
Your lack of logical thinking is a control mechanism far more daunting than religion.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
I still await the day that federal money and state license plates don't contain religious slogans. "In God we trust" is rather insulting.
Use a fountain pen with an XF nib and one of Noodler's bulletproof inks (quick drying and waterproof). Even if water or hot coffee is acidentally spilled on the drawing. A Lamy Safari XF or a Hero 100 would be inexpensive and work well. I use the Hero pen all the time, and it makes drawing and diagramming so much easier than with a ballpoint.
Look, it's someone who believes...
Unfounded assumption. I'm just not a dick about it.
...paranoia...
So when was the last time a religious person personally threatened your life? I'm not talking about kooks from the middle east, I'm talking about you, personally. I bet it's never happened.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I take 4-5 of these on every plane trip I take and I lose one out of every ten to the leaking problem.
I was a mechanical draftsman for a number of years, loved the rapidiographs, and have penmanship that makes people stare in a good way, I use the Pilot V5 for everything.
I am left handed and I push the pen from left to right, meaning the side of my hand passes over and comes to rest on things I have already written. The fast drying ink of the Pilot V5 keeps my hand from turning black.
I love the Pentel 205, its a .5mm mechanical pencil that got me through high school and college. They are getting harder to find, I have found Asian knock offs called Morning Glory, but my new favorite mechancal pencil is a ProMecha
http://davesmechanicalpencils.blogspot.com/2007/05/ohto-super-promecha-pm-1500s-mechanical.html
I share most of the OP's concerns, plus this: I want a clickable, one-piece pen. After years of looking for the perfect pen, I have two marvelous candidates:
Get a cheap, rugged Parker clickable, throw away the standard ink refill and replace with a Parker gel refill. Glorious, smooth, black ink!
When I need multiple colors (which is often), I use clickable, one-piece Tul pens. You can get a set of eight in four colors cheap at an "Office *" store. Keep four, give the other four to your wife or gf. She will thank you for it.
I see 616 comments posted so far. Thanks to all the other creative types out there for sharing your pen obsessions!
Circle the wagons and fire inward. Entropy increases without bounds.
I'm a lawyer. I write all day. And often during the night. I am totally in love with the following:
http://www.cultpens.com/acatalog/Pilot_Capless_Carbonesque.html#a387
http://www.cultpens.com/acatalog/Uni-Kuru-Toga-Roulette-Pencil-05mm.html
The Namiki Vanishing Point aka Pilot Capless. Beautifully smooth to write with, gorgeous to hold, a clickable fountain pen, a technical triumph.
The Kuru Toga Roulette. The top of the range pencil in the Kuru Toga line, whose lead rotates when you lift, and stays sharp. A pleasure to use. Lovely balanced hefty weight. Feels rock solid.
These things aren't cheap. Quality rarely is (that's what I tell my clients, anyway).
I use this for artwork, and it doesn't bleed, doesn't blob, and produces very fine lines. As long as I haven't been using it on paint, which the nib really doesn't like.
I second this, the Zebra F-301 has been my favorite pen since high school. It seems to satisfy all of your critera, and is cheap to boot.
A lot of the problems you mentioned can be avoided with good paper. You will be surprised by know much the quality of paper influences good writing. My suggestion is: go a good stationary store, and see if they have samples of paper where you can write. I also support Japanese pens. They are designed for fine writing (Kanji is tricky) and can be very thin. Even their fountain pens are very fine in comparison to european papers.
For me, I have settled with fountain pens from Lamy or Pilot with fine nibs, and I use paper that is thick enough (around 75-100g/m^2 depending on your taste and use) and it is not too absorbent (I suggest paper used for anime, but watch for the thickness). As of now I make my own notebooks, either by using binders (I love the japanese ring binders, in size A5) or by using a Midori Traveler's Notebook (Midori is a Japanese company). The paper I am currently using is Canson Marker Pad (74g/m^2) from which I make my Traveler's notebooks. For the A5 binders I have resorted to paper from a company called "Etrangier di Costa Rica".
In a nutshell: make your own paper pads that match the type of pen that you want to use. Think of it as typing with a very nice keyboard rather than with a 10 dollars one. :)
--dmg
As an atheist myself, I still have to question why this is in this thread.. this is about pens, not religion. Don't feed the trolls.
The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
For throwaways I like Pilot V5. Used 'em on weather charts back in the day. Worked fine, it was good paper, no bleeding. Ink was a little slow to dry on that paper. That's the closest I got to "technical" writing / drawing. Still had to be tiny, neat and legible.
I now have no use for technical pens, though. For writing, I use a 1942 Parker Vacumatic fountain pen. Cellulose nitrate barrel, huge ink reservoir - the barrel itself is the reservoir. You can see through it to see how much ink is in it. Fills from a bottle. Flexible nib, dig in a bit and it's bold, let up on it and it's fine. (Flexy nib on a parker is akin to finding a $50 on the sidewalk.. rather rare.)
It's super-light. I find modern pens, like modern watches, are artificially heavy -- as if weight = quality. It doesn't. It sucks to write pages with a heavy status symbol. It's sublime to write pages with something that feels like it's made of air.
The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
This is nice: http://shop.cwandt.com/
See here an interview about the tools he uses for his amazing drawings: http://thetoolsartistsuse.com/2009/08/tom-gauld/
Only pens I use. I even etch my name into the barrel so it comes back. The thinner ones write very smoothly with minimal blobbing. (F-301) The heavier knurled grip F-701 writes nearly as smooth but it's heavy so I hope you have manly hands. It also looks much more expensive than it really is, so it makes me look like I can stretch my grad student's salary much further than it really goes.
I use the Fisher Space pens. They can blob sometimes, but it does not seem to be a problem, the blob does not seem to get on the paper. Also the refils can be used in some other pens, like Parker (I think).
Space pens can also write over surfaces and stains that would make other pens skip.
I also get good use out of the stainless steel Zebra pens.
Pencil, the sort you sharpen. Mechanical one keeps breaking the tip. Also I like gel pens, so long as it's a good quality one.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Pentel 0.5 Needle tip EnerGel.
CTO using Perl and MySQL (and proud of it).
Gently now... back up a bit and look at it. Persecution has occurred historically on the basis of race, creed, religion and ideology. Why do you fixate on one of these, rather than say that folks are inclined to persecute each other with the slimmest of reasons? Recall that secular societies have persecuted people as well. It seems as unlikely that religion is the cause of the persecution than that race is the cause of ethnic persecution.
So why villianize someone, linking them to atrocities they never supported, simply because they share a few beliefs with the perpetrators? Seriously, get a grip. I don't blame random Asians for the Virginia Tech shootings, Muslims for the 9/11 bombings, or random communists for the Soviet mass killings. Nor should you; it isn't rational or just.
Usually not - more like 8000-10000 feet, which is roughly the range of a ski resort.
Uniball Signo Micro 207?
Gel ink, even flow, smooth writing.
http://www.uniball.com/catalog/show/product.php?no=84
I used to use Rotring and a few others, but the Uniball has won me over. I too write very small.
Haven't yet had the opportunity to take one up in a plane, but they're not so expensive that
trying one will break the bank.
every time I hear about the "space pen" I think of the Russian solution a pencil. but seriously go to jetpens.com or call the Fountain Pen Hospital 800 253-7367
Don't bother ; find a cheap one that is good enough, buy a box full (or a couple of bodies and a box of refills in several colours), then get on with your life.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Pilot pens are great in the 0.7mm size.
That feature was a TSA requirement...
Real Engineers use Graphite! The best I have ever found was the very old Pentel P205 mechanical pencil using C505 Super Hi-Polymer 0.5mm HB Graphite. Characteristics of C505 Super Hi-Polymer 0.5mm HB Graphite: Graphite is an extremely low-friction element mineral which may have durable properties when formulated in the proper polymer. The C505 Super Hi-Polymer 0.5mm HB Graphite is very dark, very thin, and does not blot or smudge when using non-glossy paper. Yet it will erase easily with a soft eraser.
I tip my hat to you sir. Your wit combined with your magical ability to write with an Android. You must be a wizard.
@jmc23 - Damn, one of the few days I don't have mod points.... Well said, sir.
Above said it most... I looked for something that would not dry out (need no cap), was permanent (ink doesn't run), dries instantly, and is smooth (no friction) to write with on most surfaces.
I didn't like their needle tip -- as it digs into a notebook too much -- causing too much friction. About a 5% leakage rate... They are inexpensive enough, that last time I just bought a box of them -- keep them seal in airtight containers to preserve them, but they come sealed.
They are like a ball-point pen and the point clicks and retracts up into the pen. Haven't found any that are better at any price -- and given these are "office supply pens", they are cheap enough for me to buy tons and not worry if I lose one.
FWIW, my model is the BL77-V (I think the V is the color (violet).. .7mm Metal Ball tip.
Pentel "EnerGel" Liquid Gel Ink (made in japan)
They DO make other types and sizes of tips -- like I mentioned, the .7mm needle has a finer line, but more drag.
I wanted one that was low drag to create less tiring when I write..
I've been using these for years -- they meet all your criteria, the ink lasts a long time, dries quickly, doesn't readily smear... Two drawbacks: people love them and keep stealing mine, and the clip is weak so I keep breaking them off. Nothing a little tape can't fix! Uni*Ball Vision Elite Micro Black http://www.utrechtart.com/UniBall-Vision-Elite-Rollerball-Pen--Micro-Tip--0-5-mm--MP69175-i1016878.utrecht
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