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Hurricane Sandy Damages Space Shuttle Enterprise
SchrodingerZ writes "The now decommissioned Space Shuttle Enterprise appears to have been damaged by super storm Sandy, as it blew through New York City. The shuttle is currently on display on the deck of the USS Intrepid, as part of the Sea, Air, and Space museum on pier 86. The storm tore through the shuttle's inflatable pavilion which housed it, leaving a deflated mess over the space craft. It appears that the pavilion has damaged the vertical stabilizer on the tail of the craft. The museum has yet to comment on the situation. This is not the first time the Enterprise has been damaged however. As it was being towed through Jamaica Bay en route to its new home in Manhattan, the barge was hit by wind and forced the spacecraft's wingtip into a railroad bridge pylon ."
That would be dangerous !!
After this, I bet she'll never fly again. ;o(
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
Enterprise is a huge part of the history of human science an exploration. Damage to it is news. I bet you'd complain that it was a slow news day if a major storm blew through Paris and water damaged the Mona Lisa too, eh?
that's why we can't have nice things.
To be fair, the Mona Lisa is also a piece of mostly carbon and a lot of poisonous metal.
It's also not really that beautiful, and lives more on its reputation than its actual appearance.
And we have technology today to accurately replicate its "beauty" and give the viewer the exact same experience viewing it as they have today, so really, your arguments for not giving the Enterprise any sentimental value can be applied to any "art" you choose.
That "more important news" is on other sites. If you came to /. looking for that news, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
rewriting history since 2109
New York was the least deserving. I'm not knocking New York itself, but the one at the Smithsonian isn't all that far away and they don't have a Space Center there.
The only reason New York has a shuttle is it was the shuttle that was left after all the deserving blue states got one. Johnson deserved to get the Enterprise at the least, one of the others by any real world measurement of the situation. Texas is a red state, and granted Houston is more likely to get a hurricane than New York most of the time, but the partisan politics of the Enterprise sitting there at all is sickening. I don't care what your political leanings are, the obvious partisanship in the decision is as wrong as Google's current single sided issue promotion on their resources.
You misspelled Dayton, where they know how to take care of historical aircraft and don't leave them out to rust in the sun, like Texas did.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass
You are comparing apples to pears. "Mona Lisa" is a chunk of dried paint and canvas that, granted, had its part in the history of art. Being a chunk of crusty paint and canvas, however, it can be replaced; and if it were to go lost, not many humans would spill tears over it. Enterprise, on the other hand, is a work of breakthrough engineering, science, and exploration, held dear by many more humans than said chunk of crusty dried paint on canvas. Moreover, Enterprise was crafted by many indivituals in a cooperative feat of engineering not seen since Apollo, many of those engineers being unsung geniuses who went on to further humanity through their engineering, which cannot be said for Leonardo Da Vinci, now long dead and no longer contributing to humanity. Last but not least, I do believe that you are a troll.
*slap*
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BMO
It costs $24 _per person_ just to get in to the Intrepid Museum. I do not know if they charge a rider for the shuttle tour.
Keep in mind, every single museum exhibit at this place was paid for with money borrowed on behalf of the taxpayer. Now the taxpayer is paying again for the privilege of laying eyes on what what built using loans their great grandchildren never consented to, but nonetheless will be paying back under threat of force.
Hm. You quite craftily inverted my argument, to show that what is true for Mona Lisa may also be true for Enterprise. I'll grant you that point. Insulting me, OTOH, is not a major contribution to this discussion. I, last but not least, do certainly NOT believe that you are a troll, which belief may be unjustified. I do believe, however, that this discussion merits to be deepened, whatever you may be. I suppose this proves beyond reasonable doubt I am not a troll. Can you prove you are not one ?*
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
And stuff like this is why I'm bored with Americans and their petty squabbles. You have absolutely amazing feats of engineering with which you have accomplished utterly awe-inspiring things, yet you chose to spend most of your time squabbling over whether one group of millions of people should be coloured red or blue based on whether a slim majority voted for PersonA or PersonB in a hugely over-inflated popularity contest and the benefits that come with this apparent colouring.
I'm sure you'll have some clever rebuttal, but I'll say it right here: I won't be bothered to read them.
So by your thinking it was worthwhile that all those years ago someone thought to save the Mona Lisa so that people could enjoy it today... but it's not worthwhile to save Enterprise today because you don't care... right?
You've demonstrated nothing aside from your arrogance.
Too bad they don't name hurricanes after men - like Kahn.
Headline: "Kahn damages Enterprise. Caretaker is quoted as screaming, 'Kaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhnnnn!'"
Can you prove you are not one ?*
Can you prove that you did not make a post just to be a contrarian jerk?
Seriously.
The Enterprise is on topic for this page. Damage to the Enterprise *is* news for nerds. The Mona Lisa is not unless an article is discussing the chemical composition of the paints that is scientifically interesting. The burned out neighborhood of Breezy Point is not. Your first post should be modded into oblivion as flamebait/troll if not your second one.
And calling you out as a troll is not an insult if you've behaved as one. Which you did.
Posting with no karma bonus because meta-discussion is also off-topic.
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BMO
I don't know why you assumed I would have some clever rebuttal. You bring up a good point. Government policy is dictated by a slim popular majority in most cases, and that's a huge problem we have - it's really "tyranny of the middle," since the "independent" swing voters are really who decide our elections.
The point I was agreeing with was that there are some places that, solely due to their political and financial clout, get preferential treatment from government in the placement of educational and enrichment resources. The red states also happen to be the poor states, and without millions of dollars to throw at politicians, they will always simply be kicked to the curb when politicians are handing out perks like decommissioned shuttles.
I don't know why you would automatically go off and assume I'm trying to participate in some petty squabble, or why you would give some random stranger on the Internet who was trying to have a conversation about something such a poor attitude.
A piece of FOAM can rip through the wing, killing everyone on board and completely destroying the shuttle.
A piece of inflatable vinyl tarp can damage the vertical stab by simply falling onto it.
Damn... I'd hate to see what would happen if someone scowled at it harshly.
I have heard it said the USA has historically had a policy/mindset that rather escalates and rebuilds, instead of prevent disaster.
There just might be some truth in it.
I don't know if USA construction costs differ much - but i'd rather build my house out of concrete and stone, make sure it can deal with the sea level, and choose representatives/governors/mayors/politicians that protect me from disaster. (besides creating and maximizing opportunities that likely benefit me)
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Actually the article is interesting to those who work in the AEC industry. It's a classic example of what goes wrong when you don't account for EVERY variable and prepare contingency plans for events. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xox9BVSu7Ok
"we wonder why education in red states is so lacking in comparison"
No we don't. Republicans are ideologically against public funding, that includes education. The red states do badly because they're starved of money except for a few private schools that are very well funded. If only brains and money coincided it would be fine, but sadly some times the smart people who would benefit most from education are the ones who can't afford private schools.
Plus it doesn't help when Republicans on the science committee spout religious mumbo jumbo like this:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-paul-broun-evolution-hell-20121007,0,4628858.story
"Evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory are major underpinnings of mainstream science. And Georgia Republican Rep. Paul Broun, a physician who sits on the House Science, Space and Technology Committee, says they are “lies straight from the pit of hell.”
So it's no 'surprising' it's the inevitable consequence of a free market.
You won't be bothered to read the responses because you're an asshole.
We Americans spend our time squabbling over who is best on dancing with the stars and shit like that. Politics is just a diversion.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If you have a system of proportional representation, rather than "New York is a blue state, because the result was 63% voted blue and 36% voted red, so we have one blue guy who gets 31 votes", it'd be "New York is a mostly-blue state, represented by two blue guys with 21 votes and a red one with 12 votes, plus [an independent?] with 1 vote". (The independent only gets in if they have enough votes, not simply as the left-over.)
(There are many variations on how this is implemented, I just made one up without knowing much about how the US runs its government.)
You must get really tired of all those people going "wooosh" at you. Wooosh, WOOOSH!
Enterprise Kahn.
Google it, then hit ebay to see if you can score a sense of humor. British made ones are the best. Even if they put such a drain on your system that your taste buds and sex drive will decline. But at least you will get a geek joke on a geek site.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The Dutch are perfectly willing to help the US build solutions. They were willing before Katrina and Sandy and they are willing after. After Katrina, the dutch saved New Orleans from further disaster, will New York be the same?
And if you think the US is stupid for waiting until AFTER a disaster to do something, http://www.deltawerken.com/89
The Delta Works weren't started until AFTER the flood.
Humans are lazy.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Plenty of letters left in the alphabet...
I take it you're not black, gay, or a woman. People do still get killed in the US for being "other", but most people who aren't "other" don't tend to notice that it's still happening.
I would imagine that the $24/head is to pay for the museum and staff, not to cover the cost of the exhibits. Not a big difference if the items were donated, came from the taxpayer or stolen from other civilizations.
This argument might hold water if the other Saturn V rockets weren't also stored "out to rust in the sun" for decades before they were sheltered.
Enterprise was a prototype, it never reached orbit, it only did glide tests: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-YNcwc1ZME
"The now decommissioned Space Shuttle Enterprise appears to have been damaged by super storm Sandy"
Enterprise sat in the Udvar-Hazy center for almost 20 years before being sent to NYC. I don't know when it was officially decommissioned, but it has been effectively so for some time as NASA handed it over to the Smithsonian in 1985.
Enterprise was never a space shuttle. It was a glider/test platform that was going to be refitted to be a space shuttle. But that was more expensive than building Endeavour. Enterprise never had engines, and it was covered in fiberglass, not thermal tiles. In the end it was cheaper to build Endeavour from spare parts.
Yes she just moved to a new home, but Enterprise has been a museum piece for over 25 years.
You mean like these?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=National+Museum+of+the+United+States+Air+Force,+Spaatz+Street,+Dayton,+OH&hl=en&ll=39.783951,-84.108362&spn=0.005684,0.008256&sll=40.365277,-82.669252&sspn=8.15936,16.907959&oq=dayton+air+force+muse&t=h&hq=National+Museum+of+the+United+States+Air+Force,+Spaatz+Street,+Dayton,+OH&radius=15000&z=18
I do have to agree though. Dayton would have been a much better place to store the shuttle than on the deck of an aircraft carrier in an inflatable hangar. It just makes so much more sense to put one in the National Museum of the USAF. It may not be the reality, but it definitely smacks of political favoritism.
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
The answer is population density. Wonder no more! More people get to benefit from things that exist in high population density areas. Sorry, but if this was out in BFE Mississippi it wouldn't be as useful.
Not like anyone should have taken down such a wind prone structure.. Idiots!!!
It costs a tremendous amount of money to keep the exhibits up. When the USS Missouri was dry docked for painting and repairs a couple years ago, it cost more than $18m. These museums rarely receive money from the government for upkeep, unless it's part of the Smithsonian (it's free to visit Discovery) so they're forced to charge something for maintenance and developing the tours. I was happy to pay to visit the Missouri, the North Carolina, and the Yorktown so that these monuments to American ingenuity and the free world are preserved for another generation to see.
Fwiw, the military has a program by which you, too, can have a free fighter jet, x-plane, battleship, tank, or whatnot. However, you do have to pay for its installation, and you do have to agree to pay for its upkeep as a museum piece, in respectable condition. I suspect that the Enterprise was given to NYC under those same terms, and--yes--they have already violated them, though their efforts were probvbly best spent saving lives.
I don't think there is any favoritism; rather, if there is a difference between red states and blue states, it is in what the city management is willing to pay for.
Norfolk wanted a battleship: they got the Wisconsin. NYC wvnted a carrier and a space shuttle test vehicle. They all will be decomissioned; they all will hvve the interesting stuff removed.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Or to cover the rent/mortgage in downtown Manhattan.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I take it you're not black, gay, or a woman. People do still get killed in the US for being "other", but most people who aren't "other" don't tend to notice that it's still happening.
Or white and male. I think the disturbing paradox of this situation in the US is the considerable discrimination by the people supposedly aware of and fixing the problem.
If a large storm went north along the coast without actually going over land, would it not continue gathering energy?
"How high's the water, Mama?"
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
The variable in question being the widely known (but little mentioned) fact that New York would get a devastating Hurricane at some time in the future.
Still true.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
A couple extra guy wires might have helped.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
Petty squabbles are boring to everyone except the participants? Who knew?
As to the red/blue thing, it's pretty much the divide between rural and urban populations. And almost everyone has some sort of rural and urban population with the same sort of division.
That would be part of the costs I mentioned.
You'd think sometime since 1942, they'd have brought thought tech to market.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
NYC didn't deserve to have a shuttle in the first place. The Enterprise should have gone to Houston.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
Keep in mind, every single museum exhibit at this place was paid for with money borrowed on behalf of the taxpayer. Now the taxpayer is paying again for the privilege of laying eyes on what what built using loans their great grandchildren never consented to, but nonetheless will be paying back under threat of force.
Sounds reasonable then to charge for services offered. Unless, of course, you think we should pay for this as well with the same flawed tricks.
Actually of the museums that were finalists for getting a shuttle but didn't get one the Museum of Flight in Seattle had the best curation plan and the best financial plan. They had an indoor climate controlled gallery next to an airfield that was "Shuttle ready". They actually scored better than the Intrepid did and NASA admits it screwed up the scoring (putting too much weight on metro area population).
But that is water over the seawall as they say, unless NASA decides to take Enterprise back NY will get to keep her.
Happy Fun Ball is for external use only.
The Intrepid's reputation with curation and preservation is shameful. So many other museums like the Air Force Museum in Dayton and the Museum of Flight in Seattle do a much better job with their priceless artifacts.
Given their poor record the Intrepid should not have even been a finalist for a shuttle.
Happy Fun Ball is for external use only.
New York can have our sloppy seconds. Come see Discovery in Virginia. Admission is free...well parking is $15 or $20, or you can get someone to drop you off. She actually went into LEO and has the skid, I mean, burn marks to prove it.
If I am not mistaken, those are either the new acquisitions that have not been restored/brought in yet, or they are the planes that were recently brought back from loaner collections, which are also meticulously cleaned and checked upon return. Dayton is seriously anal about keeping their collection in excellent condition, to the point of suing other galleries who have not met the standards that they require. (such as the Memphis Belle)
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass
It's a mater of constitutionality. The constitution is the supreme law of the land, and to change it you need 2/3ds of both houses to pass it, the President to sign it, and it has to be ratified by 2/3rds of the state legislatures. Not an easy thing to do.
In 2000, Bush lost the popular vote, but won the Presidency. We don't directly vote for the President, we vote for electors. For anyone to push through an amendment, ypu would have to have an incredible occurrance, like a popular vote landslide that was undone by the Electoral College.
Free Martian Whores!
Like you?
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
What really irks me is that my SSN is valuable at all. If it was used simply as an ID number for the soc sec system, it would be of little use to hackers. Instead it is used as a national ID number by every bank, credit card, mortgage, and insurance company. What really upsets me is that there is no check digit on the number... no checksum, no nothing... need a SSN? just make up a number when you sign up for a job.
So we'll need some Climate Change before the arctic has to fear.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
The only reason New York has a shuttle is it was the shuttle that was left after all the deserving blue states got one.
Washington state is a blue state and the Museum of Flight in Seattle tried to get a shuttle, but got the full fuselage trainer instead.
Keep in mind, every single museum exhibit at this place was paid for with money borrowed on behalf of the taxpayer. Now the taxpayer is paying again for the privilege of laying eyes on what what built using loans their great grandchildren never consented to, but nonetheless will be paying back under threat of force.
If you want to preserve Intrepid or the space shuttle Enterprise, you have only three choices:
You can fund restoration and maintenance through taxes, tax-deductible charitable grants and contributions or on-site admission fees and concessions.
There is no free lunch.
Not likely. While the bubbles do have an internal structure to them, it's not rigid, and only designed to provide a small amount of additional strength. They're really held up by internal air pressure, and it's likely that the bubble was punctured by debris, thus letting the pressure escape and collapsing the bubble. The only way that guy wires would have helped is if the enclosure was a tent, rather than a bubble. If it was a tent, the fabric would be secured to structural elements, most likely aluminum or steel poles. Of course, given the severity of the winds, it's likely that the poles would have bent or broken, which would have been much more catastrophic for Enterprise, as it would probably have punctured the skin of the craft and damaged it in multiple locations.
So many other museums like ... the Museum of Flight in Seattle do a much better job with their priceless artifacts.
Yes and no. There have been numerous complaints about the Museum of Flight's treatment of the planes, including the Concorde, left out in the lot next to the building built for the Shuttle. Also, someone managed to get into their Concorde and cut out the captain's hat that was wedged in the spot in the instruments that expands open in flight during the last time that it flew.
Given their poor record the Intrepid should not have even been a finalist for a shuttle.
When it was announced that Intrepid got one, I was surprised.
One more reason why they should have sent one to the US Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH. The shuttle would have been in an enclosed, climate controlled, solid hangar in a region with a rare tornado, but no other natural disasters. In addition admission to the Air Force Museum is FREE (if you count paying taxes, then no additional cost).
Instead now all of the shuttles are in areas where there are hurricanes or earthquakes to damage them. Not to mention all of them are near the coasts which kind of screws Americans everywhere else.
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
Not to mention Ohio is home to more famous astronauts than any other state. Neil Armstrong, John Glenn, Jim Lovell just to name a few.
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
You mean like this place http://goo.gl/maps/5pUhY that is built on a runway? With facilities large enough to house a B52 with room to spare? http://airpigz.com/storage/2010-december/Air_Force_Museum_B-52.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1292113924915
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
I personally imagine the USAF having one as a bit of an insult: "Hey guys, I know we took this program away from you but here, show it off any way!" The Enterprise is housed on a World War II aircraft carrier alongside the only tourable nuclear submarine (USS Growler) and the transonic Concorde as well as aircraft from all branches of the military and a Soyuz capsule. A Sea, Air, and Space museum sounds like a perfect place for a shuttle.
I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
The carrier rather than the orbiter is reported to be decommissioned. Next three years will be to remove nuclear reactor and related items, then the vessel will be chopped and sold for scrap. I'd not be surprised if there is a group leading an effort to preserve this first nuclear aircraft carrier. I can see it now, William Shatner hired to promotions for fundraising, "I was the first commander of this ship!" Yeah, I know he's an actor, not a Navy officer (but some of his fans will say, "Of course he did, he's the damned Captain after all!).
Back to On Topic, Enterprise was more than demonstrating approach and landing tests, a ***major*** test for fly-by-wire control system. Particularly on its last flight where vehicle had pilot induced oscillations (PIO) issues. Many internal systems had to be tested such as APU. Plus cooling systems (flash evaporator I think was demonstrated on these flights) as this baby packs a lot of electrical equipment that simply cannot be air-cooled like other things that go flying. It also had similar weight and aero characteristics to validate 747 transport which was extremely important for future orbiters (gotta get them from Palmdale and Edwards to KSC somehow).
mfwright@batnet.com
That's pretty funny. I am from SC, and educated, and I don't feel hostility from the "ignorant."
Oh, and by the way, the phrase you're looking for is "bald-faced lie," not "bold faced lie."
You have to pay rent on the Hudson River?