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Ask Slashdot: How To Deal With a DDoS Attack?

First time accepted submitter TheUnFounded writes "A site that I administer was recently 'held hostage' for the vast sum of $800. We were contacted by a guy (who was, it turns out, in Lebanon), who told us that he had been asked to perform a DDoS on our site by a competitor, and that they were paying him $600. He then said for $800, he would basically go away. Not a vast sum, but we weren't going to pay just because he said he 'could' do something. Within 5 minutes, our site was down. The owner of the company negotiated with the guy, and he stopped his attack after receiving $400. A small price to pay to get the site online in our case. But obviously we want to come up with a solution that'll allow us to deal with these kinds of attacks in the future. While the site was down, I contacted our hosting company, Rackspace. They proceeded to tell me that they have 'DDoS mitigation services,' but they cost $6,000 if your site is under attack at the time you use the service. Once the attack was over, the price dropped to $1500. (Nice touch there Rackspace, so much for Fanatical support; price gouging at its worst). So, obviously, I'm looking for alternative solutions for DDoS mitigation. I'm considering CloudFlare as an option; does anyone have any other suggestions or thoughts on the matter?"

303 comments

  1. Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You just gave him $400 more than he had before, and he knows you're good for it.

    What were you thinking?

    1. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pay someone in Lebanon to DDoS his face :)

    2. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by v1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What were you thinking?

      Apparently something along the lines of "I wonder how much more they'll demand next month?"

      NEVER negotiate with criminals. If you do, they'll always come back for more.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    3. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by khallow · · Score: 1

      The danegeld doesn't get rid of the Dane? Who knew?

    4. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      To be fair, the Danegeld supported the Danelaw, which was far superior to the religious laws of England that came later. If anything, the disappearance of the Dane just proves that the Danegeld wasn't expensive enough.

    5. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by Existential+Wombat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
          To call upon a neighbour and to say: --
      "We invaded you last night--we are quite prepared to fight,
          Unless you pay us cash to go away."

      And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
          And the people who ask it explain
      That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
          And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

      It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,
          To puff and look important and to say: --
      "Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
          We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

      And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
          But we've proved it again and again,
      That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
          You never get rid of the Dane.

      It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
          For fear they should succumb and go astray;
      So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
          You will find it better policy to say: --

      "We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
          No matter how trifling the cost;
      For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
          And the nation that pays it is lost!"

    6. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I consider myself a person of integrity. I believe in determinedly staying true to my principles. But what are the principles in this case? A competitor company enlists the dark services of a DDOS attack. You have no cyber attack rights. The government is powerless or incompetent to protect you're rights. The competitor company had to PAY for the right to attack. So, what was he thinking?

      He was thinking that the price to stay competitive had just jumped up. The end reult is not very different to a price war. Actually it's probably more honest than price fixing. With price fixing they would band together and rig the market to deter new entrants. With this, it's cut-throat competition. It shouldn't be allowed but I can't see the government doing anything about it as they usually like to poo on the middle class and are probably happy to see 2 companies forking money over to some DDOS launcher. The DDOS launcher isn't real economy, just something that attacks the real economy and the govt. are all about things that attack the real economy so its win win for them to do nothing. endorse DDOS.

      Cloudflare sounds good because it's the right mindset - a community driven approach. Furthermore, a group tasked with laying honeypots to go after DDOS launchers would be useful. I'm sure there are some but it's an area that clearly has more space for developers.

    7. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1, Troll

      You just gave him $400 more than he had before, and he knows you're good for it.

      What were you thinking?

      It is cheaper than the amount racksapce was extorting them for.

      Hmm, you don't suppose that "competitor" was rackspace? Naa....

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    8. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn;t the OP that was thinking something wierd, but the owner of the company. Untech people feed the trolls when sense says call the cops/FBI/etc. This idiot (owner) just fed anothr $400 towards terrorism.

    9. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just gave him $400 more than he had before, and he knows you're good for it.

      What were you thinking?

      No shit, I could use a couple hundred bucks, and I'll bet I'm not the only one here. What was this site again?

    10. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by red+crab · · Score: 1

      ..The government is powerless or incompetent to protect you're rights...

      Even if the government were competent enough, would you really like the government to protect yourself from a DDoS attack? On one hand you would want government not to police or censor the Internet and on the other you want it to protect you from petty cyber criminals?

    11. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are officially part of the problem. You gave someone money facilitating further attacks, that you are now partly responsible for any further damage this person does. Congratulations. Care to recant?

    12. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by Patch86 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I suspect they were thinking "we need to get our website back up or we'll lose business, and $400 is cheaper than the $6000 that Rackspace are asking for". They know they did wrong- hence why they're asking us here for better ways to deal with it next time. But unfortunately, it's a "you can't start from here" situation- if your site is down and you're under sustained attack and you don't already have something in place to deal with it, you don't really have many options.

      So do you have a suggestion as to what they could have done differently / can do differently next time, or are you just here to make easy quips?

    13. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by pepty · · Score: 1

      But what are the principles in this case? A competitor company enlists the dark services of a DDOS attack.

      Doubtful. The extortionist just mentioned the competitor so as to pretend he has a BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) and set a floor on his price. If anything I'd expect the extortionist to pull the same trick on OP's competitors as well. Yojimbo/Fistful of Dollars ensues.

    14. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by slartibartfastatp · · Score: 1

      It is cheaper than the amount racksapce was extorting them for.

      I'd feel better paying U$1500 to a service that would protect my site than anything at all to the criminal, even if I would be saving money.

      --
      -- --
    15. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by jeandebogue · · Score: 4, Informative

      The best way to mitigate a DDoS is to first understand it. Do they want to bring down one of your website, network, application, service or they want to just DDoS the whole thing.

      The most important thing is to become invisible.
      In short don't allow icmp in and out.

      The second most important thing is to make sure you still have enough bandwidth.
      If all of your internet connections are full then you need to find a way to have bandwidth in and out again. For this step then you have to deal with your ISP if you don't have BGP routers. If you have those BGP routers then you can tell your router to tell the ISP to stop sending traffic from those few ip addresses. Usually not much ip are sending huge amount of UDP or crap.

      The third thing is to temporarily apply some aggressive firewall filtering at the border.
      Black list all suspicious ip. This mean you should have some list of countries to block. If all your internet partners are in the US, you can safely block the rest of the world. Then you should start to grey-list some abusive ip for 1 hour. An efficient grey-list that fit your business model is very important. It will probably not be perfect the first time, but after 2 or 3 DDoS, it will catch a lot of crappy traffic.

      It will let your clients and coworkers use your onlines services.
      There are so many things that can be done, that you should hire some experts if this become a concern for your business. But with the steps above you can survive many DDoS.

    16. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      It is cheaper, but would it be guarantee that the criminal won't come back? Or there may be another criminal who would want the same deal?

      I would rather pay $1,500 and ensure that Rackspace will do their job. At least, I know who I need to go after if it fails. On the other hand, paying criminal does not give me a contract or guarantee that it will not be back again.

    17. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The suggestion is of course to pay Rackspace, instead of paying criminals over and over again.

    18. Re:Don't negotiate with cyber criminals? by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation

          To call upon a neighbour and to say: --
      "We invaded you last night--we are quite prepared to fight,

          Unless you pay us cash to go away."

      And that is called asking for Dane-geld,

          And the people who ask it explain
      That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld

          And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

      It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,

          To puff and look important and to say: --
      "Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.

          We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

      And that is called paying the Dane-geld;

          But we've proved it again and again,
      That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld

          You never get rid of the Dane.

      It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,

          For fear they should succumb and go astray;
      So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,

          You will find it better policy to say: --

      "We never pay any-one Dane-geld,

          No matter how trifling the cost;
      For the end of that game is oppression and shame,

          And the nation that pays it is lost!"

      Yes. And known by educated people for at least 2,000 years...

  2. Cloudflare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cloudflare are great, I use them on my sites and they can handle the traffic w/o issue.

    1. Re:Cloudflare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prolexic has that.

    2. Re:Cloudflare by onekopaka · · Score: 1

      CloudFlare is an amazing service. I haven't even used it as a DDoS defense, but it still has amazing benefits. They save over 50% of my site's bandwidth every day (it's an imageboard, so CloudFlare caches all of those images, resulting in a huge win), and that's great for connections where you pay for transferred bytes. Also, because those images are cached by CloudFlare, they're cached around the world making response times faster around the world. If your web server does go offline, it's no problem when you have Always Online turned on. Your most popular pages will be cached and continue to be served.

      --
      -- Darren VanBuren
    3. Re:Cloudflare by helix2301 · · Score: 1

      You do not have a choice pick a bigger hosting provider or buy hardware that protects against ddos. In this case pick a better hosting provider be cheaper.

  3. Use blacklists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not a perfect solution, but it can help mitigate by blocking known compromised IP addresses.

  4. Next time by Progman3K · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Spend the 400$ on a computer-forensics investigator, find out who is doing this then contact law-enforcement.

    --
    I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
    1. Re:Next time by Nyder · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Spend the 400$ on a computer-forensics investigator, find out who is doing this then contact law-enforcement.

      Dude was in Lebannon, I'm sure the local police would be happy to pick him up.

      Honestly, this person is smart. Keep it small and low, and you probably will get away with it lot. Ramp it up, go after a big fish, and our government might start getting pissed, but they won't care about a bunch of small businesses.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    2. Re:Next time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      After the fact you might consider this. I've never bothered.

      During the attack? Don't waste the time. This will take days, months, years, AT BEST. Any mission critical system can not way for the police to do their job here, especially since the attacker will ALMOST CERTAINLY be foreign to North America or the UK.

    3. Re:Next time by nurb432 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are a few problems with this:

      1 - Often times they are out of the country ( its safer.. ), so no jurisdiction even if they are found. You want to deal with having to do this across country borders?
      2 - The cost of your business being down may far exceed the 'ransom' while this 'service' does its 'investigation'
      3 - $400 wont go far for an investigation.

      Not saying to pay ransom to every script kiddy that comes calling as that is an open invite to disaster, but i dont think what you suggest is a viable alternative either. At least not while the DoS is taking place.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    4. Re:Next time by mallydobb · · Score: 4, Informative

      Dude, I live in Beirut...police ain't gonna do anything, the government's sites get hacked and defaced from time to time and nothing's ever happens. Find another solution.

      --
      --- b2b.mallaidh.org | www.mallaidh.org | www.kidsalive.org/article/kahlil-pfaff/
    5. Re:Next time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or spend $400 on the football team of the local police force, or restoration project of local church or mosque and enjoy the quick results.

    6. Re:Next time by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      Exactly. He probably has a spreadsheet of small potatoes to harvest from. By the time he wraps around to the beginning, he will hit them up again for another $400.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    7. Re:Next time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spend the 400$ on a computer-forensics investigator, find out who is doing this then contact law-enforcement.

      Spend the 100$ on a computer-forensics investigator, find out who is doing this then contact those guys you know in Chicago.
      less money, paperwork,time...

      FTFY

    8. Re:Next time by D4MO · · Score: 1

      Nyder was being sarcastic.

      --

      Rocket science is easy. Neurosurgery, now *that's* difficult.
    9. Re:Next time by fuzzybunny · · Score: 2

      Find another solution.

      What if you bribe the cops $400?

      --
      Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
    10. Re:Next time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe you missed out on the sarcastic nature of that part of the GPs reply.

    11. Re:Next time by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Spend the 400$ on a computer-forensics investigator, find out who is doing this then contact law-enforcement.

      LOL. $400 will not get you far in an investigation. For a cheap investigator, that might get you 4 hours of work.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  5. This May Work by arthurpaliden · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't know who you are. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my computerr go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

    1. Re:This May Work by Nyder · · Score: 0

      I don't know who you are. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my computerr go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

      Um, okay Mr. Internet Tough Guy.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    2. Re:This May Work by durrr · · Score: 5, Funny

      "This sound is made as something passes over your head"

    3. Re:This May Work by lattyware · · Score: 1

      I couldn't help but think of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4oB28ksiIo

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    4. Re:This May Work by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Whooshed harder than Liam Neeson's bad accent.

    5. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0936501/quotes?qt=qt0459504

    6. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the laugh! That was wonderful.

    7. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Good luck, I'm behind 7 proxies.

    8. Re:This May Work by Culture20 · · Score: 5, Funny

      What is "Woosh"?
      Internet memes for $400, please, Alex.

    9. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      DAILY DOUBLE

    10. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good Luck

    11. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which you rented from me and my many aliases.. ;)

    12. Re:This May Work by Andy+Prough · · Score: 1

      Harder than a Liam Neeson roundhouse kick to the face. Ahhh - best "woosh" of the week. Made my day.

    13. Re:This May Work by sacrabos · · Score: 1

      Actually, if he is in Lebanon, suggest that you want complete assurances that he won't DDoS you again. So tell him you know people in the local Mafia, and willing to put out a $1600 contract on his life. I'm sure you could find someone in that country willing to take that deal. How does he know if you're serious or not.

    14. Re:This May Work by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      That kind of talk didn't work on the schoolyard and it sure isn't going to work over the internet to somebody several thousand miles away.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    15. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WHOOSH again!

      Seriously people, some of you are missing some great movies.

    16. Re:This May Work by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Except the above statement could be construed as a death threat, and lead to a lawsuit and/or criminal charges, even in the face of an apparent 'ransom' attempt

    17. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sir, you must watch the excellent movie Taken with Liam Neeson. It's one of his quotes in the movie.

      Oh and a galaxy-sized WHOOOOOOOOOOOSH!

    18. Re:This May Work by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      Riiiight, because some script kiddy in Lebanon is going to travel to a foreign country to go to court against a company who's computers he just attacked.....

    19. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      awesome. A real hacker not using his skills to screw things up, but to defend himself.

      A bit mean though. I wouldn't have shared his pics

    20. Re:This May Work by Minwee · · Score: 2

      How does he know if you're serious or not.

      The same way you know that he's really in Lebanon.

    21. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol funniest thing ive read in a long time here. wonder how many heads this went over...again thx for the laugh

    22. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh... Neeson's Irish I'm pretty sure the Irish accent's quite real....

    23. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know who you are. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my computerr go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

      Good luck....*click*

    24. Re:This May Work by JustOK · · Score: 1

      All those Englanders have an accent.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    25. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " skills I have acquired over a very long career."

      Schoolyard... long career... there's something here I know it!

    26. Re:This May Work by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Yes, exactly. His Irish accent is fine. It's his American accent in Taken (the movie above quote comes from) that's not so great :)

    27. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the umpteenth time it was a joke, he was paraphrasing what Liam Neeson's character said to the people who took his daughter hostage in the film Taken.

    28. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      watch this it will help www.kamasutra.com..........

    29. Re:This May Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can attest to that. You'll end up having to bury all of these guys' corpses and trust me, that's a bother. While nobody powerful will resent you for making the body, they do expect you to bury it somewhere suitable.

  6. this may help you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hi first time accepted submitter!

    You may want to check this Ask Slashdot.

    1. Re:this may help you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hello AC, welcome to Slashdot. It might help you the future, to know that it is editors that decide the category the story gets posted on, not the submitted. Good luck AC.

    2. Re:this may help you by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 1

      I think his point was more that it was a dupe, rather than complaining about what category it was posted under, and he should have searched before asking, but thanks for playing!

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
  7. You can't win. by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Funny

    There was a gambling site in Australia that got on the wrong side of a gambling gang (stealing customers, nothing they did specifically to attract ire). The DDoS took down Australia. Keeping your servers up when your link is flooded isn't too hard. Keeping your site up when the DDoS takes down your ISP and their ISP is a little harder. The "best" solution is to log all IPs and sue all local IPs for hacking. Get some old lady fined $1,000,000 for hacking and maybe people will figure out that they should secure it or turn it off. If there were no botnets, there would be fewer, if any, DDoS attacks.

    1. Re:You can't win. by Andy+Prough · · Score: 2

      Get some old lady fined $1,000,000 for hacking and maybe people will figure out that they should secure it or turn it off.

      Yeah, that's real workable. Courts love to hammer those old ladies.

    2. Re:You can't win. by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      And if the source addresses are spoofed, then what?

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    3. Re:You can't win. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Then you do more forensics and take the ISPs to court for gross negligence and hacking. No ISP should allow from addresses that it does not own. I've worked for 4 ISPs and all have filters that block ranges it is not directly aware of to prevent spoofs from being sent. Do not do so is negligent.

      Though you are right, most are spoofed. Find two services you want to down. So a syn spoof on the first with the "from" address of the second. Your first target will be a participant in the attack against the second. When you attack the second, use the first as the source address. You end up having your targets help take each other down. But unless trying to do a secondary attack like that, why would a botnet owner bother to have the bot spoof other addresses? Sounds more like a "it could happen" than a "it is likely" scenario.

    4. Re:You can't win. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      It's more workable than balancing the budget by cutting taxes, but one of the candidates is promising that very thing, so it's the season of impossible.

    5. Re:You can't win. by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      Depending on the design of the ISP network, the packet can be spoofed and pass egress filtering, as long as the source is spoofing another host in the ISP network.

    6. Re:You can't win. by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Oh but your wrong! If you're the RIAA or MPAA, courts will be licking their chops just to fuck over that little old lady one last time!

      It's not what you know, it's who you know.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    7. Re:You can't win. by steveb3210 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've dealt with similiar situations in my professional career. Rackspace's DDOS protection isn't worth it, after 3Mbps, they null routed our box because the size of the attack was so large that it was saturating their uplink capacity...

      Prolexic has a cool approach, you proxy your site through them (either web proxy or they can annouce BGP routes for you) and they have massive datacenters that do nothing but scrub packets for you.

      The downside is their service is very very expensive ($60k+ a year)

    8. Re:You can't win. by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      And they are likely using an off-the-shelf solution. F5 got tired of being called a "really expensive load balancer" (especially since you can get good load balancers now for less than 1/10th the price) and is doing good things with security. I would guess that they are what a professional scrubber would use. So go buy some Big-IP and as much bandwidth as you can afford and you'll likely stay online as long as your upstream provider can stay up (so long as you hire an expert to configure/install them, they are not Sonicwall easy, even if you know what you want done for security).

    9. Re:You can't win. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      correct, almost no ISP's even do uRPF in the core much less prevent customers from spoofing each other's IP's. This is another spam problem. Unfortunately the stewarship of the academic era of Internet is missing this time around. Most hosting ISP's just blame the victim, and eyeball ISP's don't care period.

    10. Re:You can't win. by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Why wouldn't the bots spoof? Anything that causes misdirection and makes it more difficult to track down the bots is going to decrease the rate at which bots are lost.

      Also just because an isp performs egress filtering, doesn't mean you can't spoof other local addresses at the isp... Not quite as difficult to trace, but is likely to result in different machines being assumed to be owned.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  8. Gouging Schmouging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Try buying fire insurance when your house is on fire. It's a risk pool. Duh.

    1. Re:Gouging Schmouging by czth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Came here to say that; thank you, would have modded up if I had points.

      Absent threat of force to the contrary (*cough*), pre-existing conditions cost more to insure against than lower-risk customers, because your risk of having the thing happen is 100%—it's already happening! At that point you're asking the person to foot the bill for a cure, not insurance; why shouldn't they pass on their costs to you rather than everyone else?

      If, instead, you were to join a pool of 100k individuals that (making up some numbers for an example) had a 1% fairly evenly distributed chance of a $10k loss every year, then, ignoring insurer overhead, the yearly expected cost would be $10M, meaning break-even by charging each person $100/year. That cost increases very quickly as you add people to the pool with a 100% chance of loss; and at that point, it's not insurance but subsidy and most people with a choice about it move to an actual insurer (increasing the individual cost even faster until it is same as the actual loss).

    2. Re:Gouging Schmouging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      This isn't really insurance though. It's just a service rackspace provides.

    3. Re:Gouging Schmouging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No its like buying a fire extinguisher when your house is on fire, or a fire fighter getting called out on duty his first day. Security does not always mean insurance such is a very abstract and impractical matter as it relates to that green paper you call money.

    4. Re:Gouging Schmouging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just like to point out that this is why Health Care is now called "Health Care" and not "Health Insurance".

    5. Re:Gouging Schmouging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is supraventricular tachycardia, a mild disease with a simple cure that doesn't really affect life, something that should increase the cost to insure the individual? In the "old" system, it does, even though it's a near-zero risk for the insurer of becoming a serious condition at any point - far lower than the average risk of getting into a car accident.

    6. Re:Gouging Schmouging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and it's $1500 for the three years when nothing happens, then $1500 for the year something happens. OR $6000 for the day something happens, to make up for those 3 years you didn't pay

    7. Re:Gouging Schmouging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Insurance" is just a service insurance companies provide.

      Put another way, Rackspace needs to manage a pool of bandwidth, under the assumption that they can expect so many attacks at a time/per period.

  9. Regarding price "gouging"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With due respect, in my view, this is like trying to buy homeowner's insurance while your house is on fire, and complaining that they won't sell it to you.

    Why is it unreasonable for you to pay more for "OMG I NEED IT RIGHT NOW!" service?

    It's easier to do some prevention than to try to and figure out and control the problem WHILE it's happening. Also, why is it unreasonable for them to give someone who sees the need for some complicated traffic monitoring and filtering a discount for letting them set it up, y'know, during normal business hours with forethought and preparation and not as part of a crazy firedrill?

    (no, I don't work for Rackspace)

    1. Re:Regarding price "gouging"... by NemosomeN · · Score: 4, Informative

      I read it as "It is price x no matter what, while a DDoS is in progress, the price increases to y, even if you bought it ahead of time" which would be gouging. If it is, indeed, "Price x if you buy it ahead of time, and price y if you buy it during an attack" then that's just common sense. Ongoing protection that might not be needed is going to be cheaper than ongoing protection that is needed immediately.

      That said, it sounds like the guy had warning before the attack started, so this is more like buying homeowner's insurance after someone threatens to burn down your house.

      --
      I hate grammar Nazi's.
    2. Re:Regarding price "gouging"... by rundgong · · Score: 1

      I was thinking the same thing. If you pay for it upfront they will include the odds of you never needing the service. In other words exactly as buying insurance.

      To illustrate with an example:
      The equipment costs $6000 but they know that statistically only one in five customers will need it. Then selling it to 5 customers upfront for $1500 will give you a profit of $1500.
      Selling the $6000 equipment for $1500 to you while you need it will incur a loss of $4500

    3. Re:Regarding price "gouging"... by LordLucless · · Score: 2

      So, if you pay $10 for line rental, yet the phone company charges you more when you actually use it to make a call, is that gouging too?

      These sort of services are really expensive to run while a site's under attack. You basically need to have a whole TON of extra capacity to divert all the requests to. So they charge a basic fee for monitory/setup/syncing/whatever - just keeping the service up and ready - and when you start getting millions of requests per second being thrown at it, the price bumps up.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    4. Re:Regarding price "gouging"... by ciscoguy01 · · Score: 1

      But if Rackspace is the ISP, and the ISP presumably has other customers, doesn't a DDOS often affect other customers of that ISP? I think so. Rackspace would have to mitigate the attack, no fair trying to charge one customer. Unless they took on a well known target customer, that is.

      Let me tell a story. Some years ago (long ago, really) I was working on some antispam stuff.
      There was a popular free DNSBL that was being DDOSed all the darned time, this affected people's mail, including my customers. Since it was a free list they had little money to do high cost anti-DDOS stuff. Understandable.

      I contacted one of the big distributed hosting providers, a name you would know.
      I asked one of their top people if the company would agree to provide hosting for that DNSBL, for the good of the internet. As a way of helping. The processes involved would be a tiny blip for a company their size. Others would maintain it, they just had to allow the queries. A tiny blip of DNS lookups for incoming mail.

      I got an immediate response that this was an interesting request but they couldn't get involved in anything that would draw unwanted attention from bad people, because it could affect their shareholders. Understandable.
      I responded that I would appreciate them helping but I understand. And how long would it be before they were themselves targeted and extorted by criminals? I got no response.

      It wasn't long, I think less than a year they did have some criminals attempt to extort them under threat of DDOS. It was in the news.
      I am sure they were able to handle it internally, they were big and had a big distributed system. But this just shows, you have to help if you can, or what happens when they come for you?

      Like I said, I understand they don't want to take on a known target. But the stuff in the OP was nothing like that.

      --
      .
    5. Re:Regarding price "gouging"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Does Rackspace do this to customers! You buy there protection service, for 1,500 before any attack, but during an attack will they jack up an extra fee to investigate it and or end the attack! I love how there are no solutions for this person again the arrogance of nerds at work.

      ""While the site was down, I contacted our hosting company, Rackspace. They proceeded to tell me that they have 'DDoS mitigation services,' but they cost $6,000 if your site is under attack at the time you use the service. Once the attack was over, the price dropped to $1500"".

      Was the site down, because of the attack, or because the business shut it down after the attack.
      If you ""use"" the service while under attack, but he does not say if you ""buy"" the DDoS service specifically to end an attack, then the protection service will cost XXXXX per year, and any future attacks will not result in additional fees.

        But the comments are not productive, the editors really need to interview the submitter and ask these questions, to make it clear.

    6. Re:Regarding price "gouging"... by brit74 · · Score: 1

      With due respect, in my view, this is like trying to buy homeowner's insurance while your house is on fire, and complaining that they won't sell it to you.

      Can we please stop with the "it's like buying insurance when your house is on fire/you have cancer/etc" argument? As far as I can tell it's not like buying insurance and (on the other side) it's not like a store jacking up the price of fire extinguishers when your house is on fire.

      Here's why it's not like buying insurance when your house is on fire:
      (1) If you buy homeowners insurance while your house is on fire, well -- you're going to have a bunch of damaged stuff that they have to replace (because the fire has already destroyed it or because it's inevitable that the fire will destroy it). This means you're paying (say) $100 and the insurance company is on the hook for thousands or tens of thousands of dollars. It's obviously a bad deal for the insurance company in that case.
      (2) Companies simply won't sell you fire insurance or health insurance when you have a fire or cancer. Rackspace will sell you backup services, but at a higher cost. The fact that Rackspace is willing to sell you these services at all should tell you that it's not like buying fire insurance during a fire -- because nobody would do that.

      On the other side of the fence, why selling these services is not like a store jacking up the price of fire extinguishers during a fire:
      (1) Rackspace is on the hook for providing backup services immediately. Providing backup services costs more than providing the potential for backup services. In other words, you're going to be depending on their servers (meaning traffic is going to their site), whereas, if you don't have DOS attack in progress, they're just backing up your servers and don't have to handle the traffic. Plus, there's a lot of urgency with the "my server is under a DOS attack right now" - which might mean putting you in front of their current work queue. Both of these mean extra costs for Rackspace.
      (2) Fire extinguishers have a fixed cost, regardless of whether you use them or not. Rackspace is providing a service, which does cost them more money when you use them.

  10. this may help you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi first time accepted submitter!

    You may want to check out this Ask Slashdot.

  11. Null routes by papasui · · Score: 1

    Null route the ip being attacked, not the ip attacking. Of course this assumes you have a network consisting of more than a single ip. Anyway this is basically the best way to handle a DoS. Otherwise you basically need to have the bandwidth/resources to endure the attack. Many providers will allow either a remote-triggered black hole session to their BGP router or allow a burst rate above your committed bandwidth if the interface allows for it.

    1. Re:Null routes by be99 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. If I remember correctly, most providers use the MPLS community of "666".. You'll have to probably have some good router skills though for it to be setup if you don't.

    2. Re:Null routes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That'll work well for a public facing website. I'm sure the attacker won't think to check DNS for changes or see if the site is still online.

    3. Re:Null routes by cnastase · · Score: 2

      Null route the ip being attacked, not the ip attacking. Of course this assumes you have a network consisting of more than a single ip.
      Anyway this is basically the best way to handle a DoS. Otherwise you basically need to have the bandwidth/resources to endure the attack. Many providers will allow either a remote-triggered black hole session to their BGP router or allow a burst rate above your committed bandwidth if the interface allows for it.

      This is the simplest way to handle a DDoS, not the best. Well, might be best from the provider's point of view. The best solution is to scrub the attack and let legitimate traffic pass through, but they decided to pay $400 instead of $6000.

      @OP: a simple Google search gives you quite a few options on solving this problem. Just input "ddos protection" and hit Enter. You'll find that there are a lot of companies providing the exact service that you need, for less or more money than Rackspace, with "instant" setup. I used quotes since it takes a while until the new DNS entries will propagate, but you DO have options. Since you got scammed once, there's a good chance they'll try it again, so I suggest you try to be prepared for the next time.

      --
      Born to raise hell.
    4. Re:Null routes by BeanThere · · Score: 2

      Null route the ip being attacked

      So to protect against someone taking your website down, you effectively take your website down? I think I've missed some detail in your suggestion.

    5. Re:Null routes by dropadrop · · Score: 2
      We pay the 6000$ (ok, less with a bulk discount), but a lot of the time have to null route anyway as attacks just get bigger and bigger (up to 10gbps) and end up saturating the providers links.

      There's no winning in my opinion. The ddos shields do work, but they are prices for companies who really lose a lot of money with downtime. Your best chance would be trying to figure out who ordered it and get evidence if it happens multiple times.

    6. Re:Null routes by dropadrop · · Score: 1

      Null route the ip being attacked

      So to protect against someone taking your website down, you effectively take your website down? I think I've missed some detail in your suggestion.

      That way you disturb other services behind the link less.

    7. Re:Null routes by papasui · · Score: 1

      Right like I said, assuming you have more than 1 ip address. If your network is semi-distributed disabling the ip being attacked will reduce the DoS, usually enough to the point that other services function. If all you got is a single web host, then your web-presence probably isn't all that critical, and if it IS then your doing it wrong.

    8. Re:Null routes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. If I remember correctly, most providers use the MPLS community of "666".. You'll have to probably have some good router skills though for it to be setup if you don't.

      There's no such thing as an MPLS community. What you were thinking of is a BGP standard community value.

  12. Rackspace IDS by Karem+Lore · · Score: 1, Interesting

    We employ a Rackspace IDS (Intrusion Detection System) which all our servers sit behind. We also have a firewall at Rackspace. The IDS detects sql injection attempts, brute forces, DDoS etc and stops them, alerts us and, in our case, we have a pre-arranged agreement for Rackspace to immediately block said IP in our firewall.

    We can then determine whether or not that IP is malicious and remove it if necessary. I can't give you any prices, but for a stable and protected environment, it is a requirement these days.

    If in the middle of an attack, check if you can still get an ssh onto the box. If so, netstat to find out what is hitting it (or look at the apache logs etc) and stick a block in the iptables to reject the request from said IP.

    There is a number of other techniques that you can employ also if you are being attacked by bots (multiple IPs), but the IDS does a good job.

    --
    When all is said and done, nothing changes...
    1. Re:Rackspace IDS by BitZtream · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Judging from your post, you've never been the target of a DDoS as none of what you said would have any affect on a real attack.

      If I wasn't even really trying, I'd just use your IDS against you and have you end up effectively firewalling yourself off the Internet.

      Save my bandwidth for someone with skills while you try to figure out what's going on

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    2. Re:Rackspace IDS by DarkOx · · Score: 3

      IDS will not help protect you from a DDOS. The closed it might come to offering any kind of DDOS protect is it may help your firewall thwart scanning and information gathering in preparation for a DDOS.

      Some DDOS uses a smallish number of hosts and will attempt to exhaust a specific resource like like server session memory by speaking a the protocol for a little while, if there is something that makes you especially vulnerable to that. Big DDOS use large bot nets and will simply burn thru all your bandwidth with SYN (tcp session start) packets alone. You really can't do much. If you have some way to tell which traffic is bad, like you know traffic should only be sourced from a specific address you can drop these sessions at your firewall and maybe make things a little better for yourself but it won't do much because the traffic still comes to your firewall and its going to consume your entire outside downlink, choking out the legitimate traffic anyway.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    3. Re:Rackspace IDS by amorsen · · Score: 2, Informative

      IDS will not help protect you from a DDOS. The closed it might come to offering any kind of DDOS protect is it may help your firewall thwart scanning and information gathering in preparation for a DDOS.

      I would have agreed with you until recently, but today you can get IPS boxes which will do TCP SYN proxy (with cookies) and similar at 10Gbps. Now you can obviously get hit by more than 10Gbps of traffic, but in most cases that means you need to ask your provider for help anyway, since your own Internet connection is full. Some providers offer that you can pass dynamic blacklists to them which they will then install at their end of the connection, and some IDS boxes know how to provide such blacklists.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    4. Re:Rackspace IDS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We employ a Rackspace IDS (Intrusion Detection System) which all our servers sit behind. We also have a firewall at Rackspace. The IDS detects sql injection attempts, brute forces, DDoS etc and stops them, alerts us and, in our case, we have a pre-arranged agreement for Rackspace to immediately block said IP in our firewall.

      Did you read that in the glossy that came with it?

      Please tell me you don't actually believe or worse yet depend on any of these claims?

    5. Re:Rackspace IDS by Bert64 · · Score: 2

      If anything, the more firewall and ids systems you have, the easier you are to dos...
      A successful attack only needs to saturate one aspect of the target environment, and most firewall or ids systems are based on old server hardware from a few years ago so when faced with a flood of small packets they will often go down much quicker than the servers behind them. Not to mention all the extra ruleset parsing a typical firewall or ids has to do for each and every packet.
      I have seen numerous occasions where a dos attack was successful because the firewall simply couldn't cope, while both the line and actual servers could easily have coped with that level of attack.

      One thing to consider however, is that attackers will often only hit as hard as they need to... You may be face with what looks like a pitiful 20mbit/sec flood of tiny packets that cripples your firewall, and so long as your site stays offline its unlikely to get any worse than that. But as soon as you successfully filter the attack, whoever's attacking is likely to increase their attack. I have seen a few cases like this, a relatively small attack knocks out one user but leaves the ISP mostly unaffected, but once the ISP filtered it a much larger attack was launched which took the ISP down too.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    6. Re:Rackspace IDS by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      "look at my l33t skills".

      go learn some more, grasshopper.

    7. Re:Rackspace IDS by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      and stick a block in the iptables to reject the request from said IP.

      Do you understand what the first "D" in "DDoS" means?

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    8. Re:Rackspace IDS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IPS is not the same as IDS.

      IDS only DETECTS an attack. It does nothing else.

      IPS detects and then attempts to PREVENT the attack.

  13. ip blockage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    block the offending ip's

    1. Re:ip blockage by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 3, Informative

      Doing it at your own router won't work, because legitimate traffic has no room to get through

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
  14. Cloudflare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cloudflare sounds like the perfect solution to me. All the other options you found are too expensive, and Cloudflare is free (I think they have some paid accounts for ~$20 / month). I've heard people have pretty good success with them too.

  15. 6000 USD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    6000 USD? For that money, you could make a drone, mail it somewhere near Lebanon, pay someone to launch it, and kamikaze it with a molotov cocktail on that guy's address.

    1. Re:6000 USD? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Which of course is not where he lives, so you would end up torching an innocent bystander.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  16. Best solution... by Dahamma · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...would have been to ask him how much to get the name of the competitor. Would probably cost a bit, but documenting that exchange and turning it over to the FBI instead of just the DDoS info might have meant one fewer competitor...

    1. Re:Best solution... by Professr3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure the "competitor" bit was completely made up.

    2. Re:Best solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At best it's Hearsay. At worst it is an unfounded accusation leveled against a competitor.

    3. Re:Best solution... by Firethorn · · Score: 2

      Yep, I see this as a variation of the hitman scam.

      Guy contacts you saying he's a hitman and has been hired to kill you.
      Offers to NOT kill you in exchange for beating the amount the person who hired him is paying.
      Generally speaking there is no actual hit involved, it's just a scam. That this guy backed up his threat actually makes him unusual.

      On the hitman scam - A lot of the time they're quite easy to 'negotiate' down - could justify it in that not doing a hit is easier than doing one, on the other hand, if I have somebody that pissed off at me, couldn't they just hire another hitman?

      Eh. I think we just need to keep all the hitmen busy killing spammers, malware writers, and scammers.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    4. Re:Best solution... by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      Its never bad to gather all the information you possible can but most likely the caller was just lying. Chances are pretty good he just got off the phone with your competitor giving him the same business. Even if he did name names it would not mean much.

      Sadly its most likely the caller did not even have the capability to execute the attack he claimed to have.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    5. Re:Best solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aaaand tune in next week, where the scam will be $800 to not name you as "the competitor" in his next hit.

      First, there was no "competitor". It's unnecessary to have a real one for this scam. Second, why on earth would anyone think the competitor's name you "buy" from him would be reliable information? For any use, nevermind for police use?

    6. Re:Best solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we did ask, just out of curiosity. He named a valid competitor, but I don't believe it for a second.

    7. Re:Best solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In which case the guy will just name one of *his* competitors in the scamming business.

    8. Re:Best solution... by TheUnFounded · · Score: 2

      Stupid cookies. See above, we did check with him.

    9. Re:Best solution... by deroby · · Score: 1

      You (naively) assume he spoke the truth about there being a competitor who ordered this ?! More likely it's just a way to give the initial price more credibility.

      --
      If there is one thing to be learned on slashdot, it has to be sarcasm.
    10. Re:Best solution... by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      This is business... what does the truth have to do with it? ;)

    11. Re:Best solution... by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      You assume that he was telling the truth in the first place. Even if he did give you a name, it doesnt mean boo. I could make someting up too for a few extra bucks.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    12. Re:Best solution... by Andy+Prough · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Offer the Lebanese hacker an extra $1,000 or so for documented evidence of the competitor hiring him for the DDoS. Let the attack carry on unabated. Sue the competitor for tortious interference, and ask the judge for a massive amount of punitive damages. Get paid about 1000X the amount you lost due to the DDoS attack.

    13. Re:Best solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Already been done. A few years back, someone E-mailed my domain listings threatening to send out a barrage of spam unless I sent them $5000.

      Yep, they did... spam went out using all my domain contact info, and valid users at my site. Lots of backscatter, and lots of people calling, E-mailing, and threatening lawsuits, all of them too stupid to read that it was all coming from some uncorked and open SMTP ports overseas.

    14. Re:Best solution... by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      Generally speaking there is no actual hit involved, it's just a scam. That this guy backed up his threat actually makes him unusual.

      Why do you say that? You can't un-kill a person after you fatally wound them. However, you can start and stop a DDoS attack at your leisure.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    15. Re:Best solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why not just offer 25% of whatever the judge awards to the hacker?
      oh wait because there was no competitor client. it's just some asshole in lebanon.

    16. Re:Best solution... by ffflala · · Score: 1

      Good heavens, how could this be modded "informative"?Taking the story of your extortionist at face value is a very bad move. Let's talk it through.

      An extra $1,000 or so later... you find out from the documentation that the "competitor" is in Lebanon, that the Lebanon legal system has no concept of tortious interference, their criminal evidence standards do not consider back stories and documentation from the actor to have any credibility, that extortion of $1,000 or so is the Lebanese equivalent of a nonviolent misdemeanor and that Lebanon has no extradition for misdemeanors, and when you spend even more money to try to pursue a civil action it turns out the documentation you paid a grand for is fraudulent and that there was no competitor, neither in Lebanon nor anywhere else to begin with.... etc.

      I can keep going, but you'll need to pay me $500 to give you more detail.

    17. Re:Best solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's actually pretty creative. Of course, the materials you get from the Lebanese hacker will be completely forged, and even if they weren't, his claims are hearsay and thus not admissible in court (unless you can get him to fly to the US).

  17. Call the NOC by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 0

    Call the NOC of your provider and have them block the offending IPs at the router

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    1. Re:Call the NOC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that won't help much if it's distributed. You might be better of with a simple limit in your configuration and do some distribution of the service yourself.

    2. Re:Call the NOC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A DDOS typically has thousands to hundreds of thousands of attackers. Identifying them this way has *never* been possible in my experience.

      You can however, try to identify them based on other patterns. But usually, unfortunately, this must be done at a higher level.

    3. Re:Call the NOC by TheUnFounded · · Score: 1

      There were hundreds of IPs. Looked like a small (or portion of a large) botnet.

    4. Re:Call the NOC by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      That's one IP, only tens of thousands more to go!

      *Distributed* Denial of Service, remember?

    5. Re:Call the NOC by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry. I didn't know it was difficult to do "anything sending this address anything more than 100k in a second -> oblivion". What legitimate client would be doing that?

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
  18. Two-step solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Step 1: find out which competitor it was.

    Step 2: DoS their FACE with a 2x4.

  19. Incapsula by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've used http://www.incapsula.com/ for general caching and ddos protection. Works great and is free for smaller sites.

  20. Don't pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first mistake was paying, now your company is a known easy mark. When facing extortion your first reaction should have been to contact law enforcement. Maybe they do something, maybe not, but it's worth a try. After that, it depends on how much you are willing to spend.

    A cheap solution is to put limiting rules in your firewall so after a few connection attempts from the same IP the connection is dropped. Another way to go is load balancing and multiple servers in the hopes your attacker gets bored before you lose money. Judging by the sound of the summary the company doesn't do a lot of business through their website, so why not just let the DDoS attack happen for a while? After a few days the guy will probably get bored and move on to someone else who might pay him.

  21. Dealt with this a few times... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A) Commercial migitation services:
    - Okay. Expensive. Do work in my experience.

    B) Mitigate yourself:
    - I'd recommend AWS.
    - You will want to have this prepared beforehand with load balancers and a virtually unlimited number of virtual servers to handle the requests.
    - Also expensive, but usually less so than a commercial service.
    - USE FILTERING AND FIREWALLING of the attacks at the lower network level possible. THIS is where you will save money. Try to identify and ignore the attacks.

    If you think this is going to go on for a long time, hiring someone to look into the matter on a personal level may prove fruitful.

  22. Not many choices by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Option a) Your best bet is go strait to law enforcement. The FBI is actually very interested in these sorts of things even if you are small fry. This might not be a such a hot idea though if the group extorting you actually has some capability. Usually they will set up a string, and track the money when you pay.

    Option b) Just shut up and pay up. Never taken this approach myself. I assume it makes the problem go away for a while anyway. I imagine said problems come back for another fix later, and I'd wonder if the attacker ever really had the capability.

    Option c) pay the back bone provider, ie ATT&T or whoever is your ISPs, ISP for their DDOS protection services. They actually DO have the resources to protect you from a DDOS. Everything else anyone else is selling is just snake oil because a large enough botnet can simply use all the bandwidth weather you attempt to ack tarpit, or not; They unanswered SYNs alone will consume your entire pipe. This option is terribly expensive, might be worthwhile if you are running a large and inadequately distributed eCommerce site or similar.

    Option d) Distribute the hell out of your site. This leads to all sorts of complexity around replication and have the big CDN providers host all your static content and resources. This may help depending on the type of attack. You will want make sure your DNS resources are also well distributed you will basically use fast-flux DNS yourself to stay ahead of your attackers. Essentially you keep changing IPs every 300 seconds or so. You will have challenges preserving sessions and for lots of services its not viable, for WWW it can be made to work. Again this is serious money and time. It might be cheaper than Option c, if you want you are trying to be available for is a small amount if high dollar transactions, as opposed to a higher volume smaller dollar situation.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    1. Re:Not many choices by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Option c) pay the back bone provider, ie ATT&T or whoever is your ISPs, ISP for their DDOS protection services. They actually DO have the resources to protect you from a DDOS. Everything else anyone else is selling is just snake oil because a large enough botnet can simply use all the bandwidth weather you attempt to ack tarpit, or not; They unanswered SYNs alone will consume your entire pipe. This option is terribly expensive, might be worthwhile if you are running a large and inadequately distributed eCommerce site or similar.

      It is in the interest of the people hosting your site/server to deal with DDOS attacks. After all, those packets are hitting their infrastructure. If you ignore it all the other sites on the same pipe will be DDOS'ed as well, and simply terminating your account is unlikely to stop the barrage.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Not many choices by Teppy · · Score: 2
      I don't know if the FBI is interested in scams, but banks are not. This summer I noticed a "too good to be true" Craig's List ad (a pair of brand new jet skis for $3000) and decided to see how the scam worked. I baited the scammer who wrote back with a story about being shipped off to Afghanistan and needed to sell the jet skis right away. He suggested using an "escrow agent" and sent me details for a wire transfer.

      The bank for the "escrow agent" was a JP Morgan Chase branch in Petaluma (?) California. I got ahold of the branch and explained what I had done, and said "I know you can't give me details on one of your customers' accounts, but I bet there have been wire transfers into this account, and in-person cash withdrawals for the same amount from it - am I right?" They confirmed (oops!) that that was the case and put me in touch with their fraud division.

      After explaining the whole story to the fraud division, I suggested they set up a sting: Make their online banking site report that I had made a $3000 deposit, let me know when that had happened, and I'd tell the scammer that I had made payment. When he shows up at the branch to withdraw the money, nab him.

      The bank never called back.

    3. Re:Not many choices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are two reasons you may not have heard back. First, bank fraud divisions tend to be for people defrauding the bank or it's customers. From your description, a completely legal transaction was occurring. It is irrelevant that it is part of an illegal scam. They are not the cops. They are not charged with having to do all the leg work to corroborate your story. They typically have their hands full doing their actual job. They may report it to the cops, they may not. In fact, you should have reported it to the authorities instead of playing TV detective.

      Second, why on Earth should they use you in an investigation? Do you think your Sherlock Holmes impression somehow entitles you to being part of an actual investigation? If this is a repeat scammer, they don't need to involve you at all.

    4. Re:Not many choices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, though, had they told the guy that you had paid $3000 when you hadn't, and then they guy legitimately gave you some in exchange for that "payment", the bank manager and you would have both been guilty of conspiracy to commit fraud. =P It makes total sense that they never spoke to you again after you made that suggestion, even if they generally agreed with you that the guy was using the account for fraudulent activity.

    5. Re:Not many choices by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Concerning option A. I seem to recall the FBI not caring about anything with a dollar value of less than five thousand dollars. My memory may be incorrect. *shrug*

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  23. Your mistake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    was RESPONDING to the guy. Even to say "no." It's like responding "unsubscribe" to a spammer.

    What you've done by replying is telling him a.) you GOT his e-mail (not by any means a sure bet with spam filters), b.) you ARE IN FACT the people who own the site in question, and c.) the REASON you're not paying is that you believe he can't carry out his threat.

    Let's say I'm this guy. I'm probably a script kiddie with a small botnet under control. I troll for small ecommerce sites (ones that are probably not profitable enough to have good defenses, but would be seriously impacted by a DDoS attack). I try to find some contact information. Again, I'm running some kind of script to troll for these, which means my sample isn't amazing and my data quality is probably questionable.

    Then I send out hundreds of e-mails. Like a spammer, I'm going for quantity. Most of these probably disappear into the ether. Whatever - I only need a few to hit a target to get paid. A few people will actually pay up from the e-mail (probably not many, but hey). Some will ignore me (and be impossible to tell from the "disappeared" group. Then there's the lunkheads like you who confirm I sent the threat to the right person and I do feel vulnerable, but I doubt your ability to follow through.

    Perfect! I train my botnet on that guy. I'm pretty much guaranteed money. The "someone offered me $600" is a bluff, of course - no one offered him anything, and it's all profit to him. But it sets a nice mental scale for you, so that you'll foolishly think you "got off easy" giving him $400 (when you could have given him $0).

    Again, this is a VOLUME play. He has enough bots to DDoS SOMEONE, but not to DDoS EVERYONE. You were attacked for one reason - because you responded.

    Sure, there was network engineering involved, but make no mistake - you got SOCIAL engineered here, first and foremost. Fix THAT, not your network.

    1. Re:Your mistake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This. You can achieve quite a bit with technology, but when you have control over the human element, sky's the limit.

  24. Prolexic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Their service can be fairly expensive, but it's worth every penny. They can announce your routes and redirect all the flows through their many scrubbing centers, then forward you only clean traffic through a separate GRE tunnel. Or they can do simple DNS proxying, but if the attacker is even remotely clever they can defeat that pretty easily.

    1. Re:Prolexic by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Until they find out what the tunnel endpoint is, and start hitting that instead...

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  25. We have some great advice for you by jayhawk88 · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...but to be honest, Kuro5hin is paying us $1000 not to tell you. Perhaps if you would be willing to pony up $1500 we could do business.

    1. Re:We have some great advice for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy crap! I thought Kuro5hin died! Last visit, a decade ago...

      Aw man, now I have more crazy reading to do...

  26. Not a lot you can really do by rabtech · · Score: 5, Informative

    There isn't much you can really do against a determined foe. There are just too many bot computers out there ready and willing to flood your servers with traffic. Huge companies with lots of staff, racks upon racks of servers, and really fat pipes have been hit with these attacks and failed to stop them.

    Now there are a few things you can do to help... You'll note that these things are all extremely important for high-volume sites or major legit traffic spikes:

    Have a switch in your website app that turns off all dynamic access, logins, session state, content generation, Ajax loading, etc and just serves static pages. This should also disable any kind of downloads unless you are already serving them from a CDN. If you are under attack (or just get featured on slashdot) throw the switch. Your website won't be terribly functional, but it will still be up. If you want to get fancy, have several levels of degradation where you can progressively turn features off to lighten database loads, etc. but without throwing up error pages or just having the site completely fall down. (ex if your sidebar typically shows recent comments via a database query, then just show a cached set of comments only updated once per day. Now every page access is using one less database query.) This is super critical because the first resource to be exhausted will be your database's ability to answer queries. The second will be your web server's ability to track session state and process requests. Especially if your site does anything even mildly complicated.

    If your OS/Webserver/app support it, turn on kernel caching, install a cache plugin, etc. Especially make sure the parts of your pages, images, etc that can be cached are cached. If the under attack flag is set, vastly increase the cache timeouts. Make sure proxy caching is enabled too so any clients behind ISP proxies, etc don't hit your systems. Serve jQuery, fonts, etc from Google's CDN. That's just good practice anyway and free.

    If possible, use a CDN for images and other content. CloudFlare is a good one. Companies like Dediserve offer cheap CDN. There are thousands of others. If the panic switch is set, you can even serve the static pages off the CDN if you structure things correctly. These help offset bandwidth saturation.

    Take the time to setup a VM of at least your basic site and keep it on standby at Amazon/Azure. If you are under attack or heavy load, spin up a bunch of nodes using that VM image. If you leave your load balancing running on their systems 24/7 then it is trivial to add nodes to the pool. Running a bunch of extra servers for just a few minutes or hours shouldn't cost a ton and will encourage all but the most determined script kiddies to find an easier target once they see your site is still up.

    The most common resources exhausted during an attack (in order):

    1. Database servers
    2. Web server CPU load or memory
    3. Bandwidth
    4. Load balancers

    Again, like I said, none of this will stop a determined attacker with a million node DDoS botnet... But it will make you a less vulnerable target.

    --
    Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
    1. Re:Not a lot you can really do by divisionbyzero · · Score: 2

      That's actually the best advice I've read on this topic. Nice.

    2. Re:Not a lot you can really do by Mullen · · Score: 1

      I will also agree, Rabtech pretty much nailed it.

      When you have a really determined foe against you and they have a shit ton of computers in a Botnet and you are not a company willing to invest in it, forget it, you are screwed. However, if you have guy renting a part of a botnet from a criminal gang, then you can survive a small or medium sized DDoS and they will go away once their cost exceeds the amount of money they will get from you.

      --
      Linux O Muerte!
    3. Re:Not a lot you can really do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      wink streaming has a product that will work well for you http://www.winkstreaming.com/en/wink_shield/

    4. Re:Not a lot you can really do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      easier to just use a CDN with built in DDOS protection. Basically all you do is update your DNS to point at the CDN and your done. This company is an example http://www.winkstreaming.com/en/wink_shield/ but there are many companies offering similar services

    5. Re:Not a lot you can really do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was awesome, thanks for the advice.

      It's one of the reason why I rarely read these kind of posts; one or two people answer it earnestly, the rest just either make jokes or miss the point. Thanks for coming up with a general solution.

    6. Re:Not a lot you can really do by zacym · · Score: 1

      Thank you for the informative insight !

  27. So let me get this straight ... by ubrgeek · · Score: 2

    You were blackmailed by someone claiming to be represent your competition and then by your service provider. Correct? There are two things you should consider, and do so quickly before you've completely hosed your server logs: Contact your local FBI field office and then contact US-CERT. Yes, I know - it's DHS, but they track this stuff and have access to tools/training they can provide.

    --
    Bark less. Wag more.
  28. Price gouging? YOU should have been prepared. by LoadWB · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So you never bothered with DDoS prevention services for what is apparently a critical company web site, which would allow the provider to work pro-actively on protecting your assets. Then when your assets come under attack you expect your provider will just drop everything and tend to your immediate emergency without additional costs? Sounds like car insurance after the accident, or health insurance after you develop cancer.

    It's 2012. DDoS are a real and credible threat today. 10 years ago, perhaps a passing thing, but today... do you not read the news?

    Stipulating that your lack of preparedness is not your fault and over-sight, I want to address RackSpace's mitigation fees and perhaps defend your position at least a little. Being that it is 2012 and DDoS are a real and credible threat, depending on the costs of such protection, perhaps RackSpace (or another provider, free market thingie and all) could provide these mitigation services as standard for a bumped-up cost. Perhaps 400% mark-up is a little steep for immediate service when 200-300% might cover the costs of getting someone involved.

    Nonetheless, my inclination is to side with RackSpace. When you work proactively, your provider can have technology in place and ready to go so that a DDoS doesn't affect you. But calling in when it's going on: first off, they have to deal with the increase in bandwidth, the abuse of the server, virtual service, or multi-hosted box you occupy and hence affects on other customers, getting someone or a team of someones involved to start the mitigation process and move your incoming traffic to the systems which perform this protection, amongst other issues.

    No, you need to bite the bullet on this one and count it as a learning experience. And call your local and/or state authorities and start an investigation, since your costs will most likely be well over the threshold of damages necessary to start such an investigation.

  29. Increase Your Footprint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use CDNs where possible and use latency based routing for DNS like AWS route 53. In addition have capacity in multiple locations, either in active/active or active/passive so you have more than a single point of failure. Much harder to DDoS a distributed app.

    1. Re:Increase Your Footprint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Additionally - having a captcha on tap could help during the emergency - assuming an interactive app.

  30. gigenet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try contacting http://www.gigenet.com/ddos-protection/ as well. They specialize in this sort of stuff for some rather large sites.

    If you're actually getting large DDoS regularly, there will be no cheap options, though.

  31. wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm kind of shocked that the Slashdot audience is so clueless about DDoS.

    CloudFlare is an excellent option...CDN is a good option generally speaking.

    1. Re:wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yah many options, check this one out http://www.winkstreaming.com/en/wink_shield/

  32. DDOS filtered service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know there are some cheap DDOS filtered services out there, e.g. buyvm.net offers DDOS filtered VPS's for $3 per month (it's an optional add-on to any of their regular VPS products, just check a box on the order form), capable of handling fairly heavy attacks. Obviously you can't host a Google-scale service on a cheap VPS, but they have more than enough capacity for a typical small business web site. I've seen their DDOS protection in action and it works. Disclosure: I'm a satisfied customer of theirs, with several VPS's that I use for various purposes, though I don't personally use the DDOS protection since I haven't needed it. I don't have any financial interest in the company.

  33. Had good luck with DOS Arrest by tekspot · · Score: 2

    Depending on the severity of the attack, CloudFlare may your cheapest option, but be aware that they are not interested in mitigating severe attacks.

    A client of mine was DDOSed last year, and my ISP's (shall stay nameless) DDOS Mitigation service could not cope with the size of the attack.
    I have briefly tried CloudFlare, but they turned us off within 20 minutes without any notice, and promptly refunded all the money.
    Luckily, I had an old contact with DOS Arrest. It was a bit expensive to setup, but they quickly got us back online, so it was worth it in our case.

    1. Re:Had good luck with DOS Arrest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 to dos arrest

  34. For gods' sake, don't *pay* them by david.given · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What makes you think they're going to keep their word? You're not signing a contract here, these are criminals! All you're doing is showing you're a soft touch. They'll be back, and they'll demand more money. They'll probably tell their friends, too. Not to mention the moral aspect that by giving in to these people you are directly funding crime.

    No, you ignore them entirely. Don't even reply to the emails (but keep them safe). If they DDoS you, live with it. Remember that these guys rent their botnet from other criminals, so every second they're DDoSing you is costing them money. As soon as they realise that they're not going to get anything out of you they'll give up and move on to the next target. Yes, you'll probably be knocked offline for a while but (a) with a bit of marketing nous you can make this work for you, by issuing thundering press releases going on about not giving in the terrorist demands, issuing 'apologies' to your customers and giving them discounts to make up for it so driving sales, etc --- basically, free PR, make the most of it; and (b) your internet-facing servers should be coping anyway. Of course, given that they aren't, that last doesn't help right now. But beef them up because it'll help next time.

    Rackspace's behaviour is contemptible, though. I'd suggest looking for a different provider.

    1. Re:For gods' sake, don't *pay* them by TheUnFounded · · Score: 1

      I'm with you, I didn't like the idea of paying them either. The problem is, it's much cheaper for the business to pay it and have him go away then let the site sit DDoS'd for ages...it's a hard decision. Feels like negotiating with terrorists though.

    2. Re:For gods' sake, don't *pay* them by rogueippacket · · Score: 5, Informative

      Rackspace's behaviour is contemptible, though. I'd suggest looking for a different provider.

      I'm not convinced - putting an order in for a service which you don't immediately need means that the provider (Rackspace) has time to plan and implement the change at their leisure. It may only take one or two people a couple of minutes, but it is undoubtedly a change on an appliance somewhere, or maybe even a physical network change if you're just "wired in" to their Internet feed. There may be an outage for you as well, meaning it has to be coordinated amongst yourself and someone doing the work. Then the whole thing needs to be tested as functional, which is very easy to do when you aren't being attacked. So the base price of $1500 seems justified.
      In contrast, when you're under attack, you're basically asking your provider to "assemble the troops" on your behalf - it's an emergency change, which needs to be performed the moment you request it regardless of which other customers are being worked on. Not to mention it is significantly more complex to do this while you are being attacked.
      So I think Rackspace is perfectly justified. If you want your provider to be at your beck and call 24/7 for complex changes, you're going to pay a premium. At least they have this as an option - most other hosting providers would just terminate your contract because you are now a "high risk" (expensive) customer.

    3. Re:For gods' sake, don't *pay* them by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Go away"? Who said he'd ever go away? Well, maybe he did, but, you know, people who extort often also lie. Shocking, I know. Next time he feels the need for a few hundred dollars (or maybe a little more...), he knows where to go.

    4. Re:For gods' sake, don't *pay* them by Mashdar · · Score: 1

      It's probably an insurance pool. As others have said, try buying fire insurance while your house is burning.

      Rackspace probably pays for filtering capabilities upstream with the insurance pool. If anything, the $3000 fee is probably subsidized by the $1500 payers. It sounds like a great deal (financially) to me for what ammounts to very expensive filtering in the wider pipes.

    5. Re:For gods' sake, don't *pay* them by mellyra · · Score: 2

      What makes you think they're going to keep their word? You're not signing a contract here, these are criminals! All you're doing is showing you're a soft touch. They'll be back, and they'll demand more money. They'll probably tell their friends, too. Not to mention the moral aspect that by giving in to these people you are directly funding crime.

      OP didn't solve the problem and judging by the summary he doesn't believe to have solved the problem by paying up - but hedid buy time to set up infrastructure so he can actually refuse payment on the next collection round. Even if the OP he does ultimately decide to go with the Rackspace solution his $400 investment has saved him $4500 in hosting fees.

      How would you have reacted in his situation? And no, "I would have planned ddos protection when setting up the site several months/years ago" does not count. .
      The choice is between either paying the $400 in the hope that it will buy you enough time to fix the issue or not to pay and possibly lose out on several days worth of revenue (plus the damage to your reputation - customers don't like companies that provide no or only severely degraded service) while you scramble to find a solution to the on-going ddos.

      The submitter might have made a mistake by responding to the demand in the first place - maybe the extortion attempt was not as targeted as he believed it to be and no reaction would not have resulted in a DOS... but that's speculation. Once the DDOS was under way that option was no longer available.

      Maybe get off your moral high-ground (not wanting to support crime, never giving in to blackmail out of principle, ...) and do a proper cost/benefit analysis...

    6. Re:For gods' sake, don't *pay* them by tibit · · Score: 1

      The true setup cost to rackspace should be $0. If they don't have this automated to hell and back, they are amateurs.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    7. Re:For gods' sake, don't *pay* them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The true setup cost to rackspace should be $0. If they don't have this automated to hell and back, they are amateurs.

      I was thinking the same thing, but I don't have enough knowledge to know whether this is so. Is it just a matter of adding YOUR_IP.PROTECT=TRUE to a config file somewhere, or is the process going to vary per user?

      In the automated case, it seems really seedy. They're using a popular assumption about insurance as an excuse to gouge. With normal insurance, the insurer loses money every time the one insured has a misfortune. They calculate the rates based on their estimates of the probability of that event happening. With an already-in-place and fully-automated system like the one assumed above, there is no money lost for them if the DDOS happens.
      The only reason a person would put up with that sort of thing would be his belief that it's normal because that's how insurance works.

    8. Re:For gods' sake, don't *pay* them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah when he could be posting slashverts for CloudFlare :P

    9. Re:For gods' sake, don't *pay* them by Mashdar · · Score: 2

      There is no magical way to internally mitigate a strong DDoS... If they can flood your entire pipe, you need to filter upstream (ie not within your own system). This costs big $$$, because AT&T etc need to install very expensive equipment to filter every packet before delivery.

      The fact that the DDoS worked means that the OP was on a second class server. Rackspace must have first class (insured) accounts on a seperate, protected pipe. The cost overhead of the protection is probably enough that they don't pay for it on all of their server space. Even ignoring the cost of filtering, a tech would have to transfer the site to the first class server and update the DNS.

      $3000 still sounds very cheap to me for what ammounts to buying insurance while your house burns.

  35. So, you paid the ransom? Are you nuts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next time, he won't settle for $400.

    I mean, seriously. The DDoS and the "competitor" were probably the same guy. And next time, it will probably be the same guy again, even though it will look like this time he's Ivan from Russia instead of someone from Lebanon.

    You've been played. Expect the price to climb.

  36. Umm, easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get 10 gbit connection, filter in iptables, watch attack stop and laugh.

  37. Sit back, crack a cold one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Go Fishin'
    Spend some time with your family.
    Enjoy the wonders of nature.

  38. Tried using a TippingPoint IPS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some TP IPS's have DDOS mitigation. Its really going to depend on how you are getting DDOS'ed (ACKs, application level, etc). Nature of most DDOS means he probably has zombies doing the work which could easily be out of the country... plus some DDOS can IP spoof, so don't recommend just setting a firewall rule on a block (unless you really observe that block to be nothing but attacks). Full disclosure, I work for them but my statements do not represent HP.

  39. iptables and conntrack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can use iptables and conntrack to build a top layer anti-DDOS box for about $1500. I've used this approach in the financial services industry to deal with ddos attacks that utilized > 500Mb of bandwidth.

  40. dont pay them by ruir · · Score: 1

    dont ever pay them, otherwise you are creating a market. Like in many country idiots create a market for hobos "looking" for your car.Anyway, why not putting them in the cloud, Amazon services? I bet it would be cheaper than paying Rackspace and their "security" services.

  41. Never negoiate with criminals... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

    In turn, never negotiate with terrorists. You'll only encourage more acts against you.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  42. Homeland Security needs to be on this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $800 ransom. And the site was taken down that easily?

    And a "competitor" hired them for $400?

    The owner of the company negotiated with the guy, and he stopped his attack after receiving $400. A small price to pay to get the site online in our case.

    Really? The site is soooo important that it needed to be up real quick? If that were the case, either the blackmailer is a real fool (I would have hit them up for at least a couple of thousand) or we're not haring the whole story here or all the above and some other combination.

    If these people are really from Lebanon, then there is a high probability that these funds are going to finance terrorism.

    Secondly, by paying those assholes, these assholes have encouraged this shit. What, these people can't sell whatever crap they're selling on the internet for a few hours? And if they are offering something more important than yet another internet shopping site, then they'd have a telephone # or some other contingency plan to deal with a service outage. So, what they're trying to do is find a bandaid solution for a poorly planed site.

    1. Re:Homeland Security needs to be on this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would have hit them up for at least a couple of thousand

      I think the low amount is actually why the scam worked; the blackmailer would want to price themselves below DDOS protection services. Doing so makes it more enticing to simply pay the extortion money, rather than pay twice as much to hire a service which blocks the attack.

  43. If they contact you, contact the FBI by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they actually contacted you, report that to the FBI. They're probably contacting other people, too. A pattern will emerge.

    A useful technical solution that seems not to be used much is to make web site services "fair", rather than first-in, first out. If something has a queue, and you're handling an request from source X, take the next work item from a source other than X. The result is the volume of attacks coming from an individual IP address doesn't matter. Only the number of attacking IP addresses matters. Your real users will still get through, although there will be degradation in proportion to the number of hostile IP addresses.That really should be a feature in Apache.

    We use this for a free API service we offer. If you make a request, it may either be satisfied immediately if we have the data available, or the request is queued for processing (this involves examining and rating a web site) and the caller gets a "try again later" status. The processing queue is "fair", so no single source can overwhelm it. (Once we rate a domain, we won't look at it again for 30 days, so our system can't be used to DDOS other web sites.)

    We once had a user from an Italian university who was trying to request info on a huge number of web sites. He put over 100,000 requests into the queue, and it didn't hurt performance for other users. After a few days, though, we looked at the logs, and noticed that the requests that returned "try again later" were never being followed up with requests for the actual info. So it was all wasted work. I sent a note to the department chair of the university involved, indicating that we had no objection to their using our service, but that their client program was poorly written and wasn't doing anything useful. The traffic stopped.

    1. Re:If they contact you, contact the FBI by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      If they actually contacted you, report that to the FBI. They're probably contacting other people, too. A pattern will emerge.

      In addition, they have more evidence if/when the authorities do catch up with these criminals.

      Another idea could be to offer a bounty to the hacker community to whoever turns in or exposes the hacker (with evidence). Might be competing hacking groups who have an idea who these guys are. If some companies clubbed together and paid toward bounties instead of 'DDoS protection', the bounty figure could be quite decent.

    2. Re:If they contact you, contact the FBI by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      If this guy truly was located in Lebanon, then the FBI have no jurisdiction over him.
      And while the Lebanese authorities have jurisdiction, it's unlikely they have the expertise to track down such a criminal, nor are they likely to care.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    3. Re:If they contact you, contact the FBI by dcollins · · Score: 1

      I would have some small concern that, having paid off the extortionist in Lebanon, someone at the FBI might decide it's a good idea to investigate and charge this victim for transferring money to a presumed terrorist. Stranger things have happened. Granted there's no way that the FBI can actually help his business now, so I'm dubious as to where the upside is for that contact with law enforcement.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    4. Re:If they contact you, contact the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just tell the fbi that he is sharing pirated movies. Jurisdiction doesn't matter then.

    5. Re:If they contact you, contact the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This would work, except for the first 'D" in DDoS. Nobody attacks from a single source IP anymore, its too easy to block and it clearly stands out in logs/netflow/etc.

  44. Has been asked before by rainer_d · · Score: 1

    Dig out the older thread for some useful insight.

    --
    Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
  45. Cloudflare by kevank · · Score: 1

    I've worked with a couple of organization whose web presence was under a DDOS attack. We placed Cloudflare in front of their site and blocked all incoming traffic to the server to only the Cloudflare IP ranges. DDOS attack was abated immediately. I highly recommend the service..... If they would add load balancing with session persistence it would be perfect. -K

  46. Try BuyVM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know this will sound like shilling, but you might try another host. I've been pretty happy with BuyVM (nope, don't work for them); they offer a pretty nice DDoS mitigation service from Awknet for an extra $3/month (on top of their normal hosting prices, which are already very reasonable). They don't drop you / null-route you when you get hit, either. You can look around for yourself, but there are quite a few happy customers (so much so that they often don't have any VMs in stock; you might have to wait a few weeks until they restock).

  47. Re:Price gouging? YOU should have been prepared. by david.given · · Score: 1

    But calling in when it's going on: first off, they have to deal with the increase in bandwidth, the abuse of the server, virtual service, or multi-hosted box you occupy and hence affects on other customers, getting someone or a team of someones involved to start the mitigation process and move your incoming traffic to the systems which perform this protection, amongst other issues.

    Yes, but they're going to have to do this anyway. The DDoS won't affect just one customer, it'll affect lots of people at Rackspace, and will cost Rackspace money. Whether this one customer pays Rackspace or not won't make any difference to Rackspace's costs.

    That's what makes Rackspace's behaviour here so dubious. Your example of it being like car insurance after the accident is invalid. It's more like a car accident that blocks the road. (Yes, yes, a car analogy on Slashdot, just deal with it, okay?) Whether you pay emergency services to move your car is irrelevant, because they either way they're still going to move it... because otherwise the road is blocked.

  48. Use a hosting service geared for such things. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try firehost.com, They have DDOS mitigation and secured firewalls built into their default package.

  49. Re:Price gouging? YOU should have been prepared. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What an informative post! You provided so many answers to the asked question "How To Deal With a DDoS Attack" that we are all enlightened on how to protect our web sites! So much info on TCP SYN flooding, load balancing, dynamic routing, etc etc. This response should be archived as a guide for all future web development.

  50. Killz them dead by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    Never reward criminials by paying ransom. Your site is not worth what whatever your money could potentially be used for.

    If it were me I would be polite but dumb, gullable and slow. Social engineer as much information you can out of your advasary then contact the authorities.

    Separatly use technical means to analyze the nature of DDOS and implement countermeasure. It could be as simple as changing IP/DNS records or adding http redirect servers. If your link is being saturated with unacknowledged traffic contact your upstream ISP or hosting provider for assistance if you can't handle it yourself even if you have to pay more and the problem takes longer to resolve.

  51. That sucks! by mitchtwo · · Score: 1

    Well, I am going to shamelessly plug my cloud hosting company, DigitalOcean. =] We don't officially offer or advertise a DDoS mitigation service, but we do handle DDoS attacks and DO NOT charge for it. Just spoke to our Cloud Architect today and he informed me that he had to handle a DDoS attack today that took down someones site. We feel it is the right thing to do.

  52. IMPERVA by lancesnyder · · Score: 0

    Imperva Cloud DDoS protection.

  53. Just wondering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm curious if you can just block all the IPs the guy is using? For example, 100computers are attacking your site, block them all from access. Would be cool if you could reverse the ddos though =)

  54. short answer by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

    1) characterise the traffic. could be from a range of ip, targeting specific ip, targeting protocol x or y or having some id characteristic you can 'lock' onto.

    2) install filter for such traffic UPSTREAM of you, at the isp. blocking once its crossed the wan to your site is obviously useless

    that's it. block at the isp. get an isp that lets you install filters 'up there'.

    can't help more than that. the devil is in the details.

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    1. Re:short answer by jgrahn · · Score: 1

      1) characterise the traffic. could be from a range of ip, targeting specific ip, targeting protocol x or y or having some id characteristic you can 'lock' onto.
      2) install filter for such traffic UPSTREAM of you, at the isp. blocking once its crossed the wan to your site is obviously useless

      Not obvious to me. The cost of a single packet increases immensely at each step as it
      hits some NAT/state tracking device of yours
      hits an actual server
      hits the IP stack of said server
      hits userspace
      makes userspace do heavy things like processing, database access ...

  55. Re:Price gouging? YOU should have been prepared. by c · · Score: 1

    Nonetheless, my inclination is to side with RackSpace. When you work proactively, your provider can have technology in place and ready to go so that a DDoS doesn't affect you.

    I imagine it's a bit like fire-suppression systems. They're way, way cheaper to have installed before your building catches on fire.

    --
    Log in or piss off.
  56. Re:This May Work (they know each other) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These guys know each other (arthurpaliden (939626) and Nyder (754090)) and trolled everyone in their boredom...

  57. If it's a service you wanted for an answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can try BlockDOS.net. They're a decent enough service for the price. You point your DNS at their proxy and then null-route anything not reaching your server from that proxy.

  58. 3 things (especially for Windows users)... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1st - YOU NEED THE BANDWIDTH to do it right... look @ AMAZON & MICROSOFT, they can withstand it, but, they can AFFORD it (the way THEY do it)...

    Investing in one of THESE is a big help:

    http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=%22DDos+Appliance%22&btnG=Search&gbv=1&sei=KYw7UI-4FsXs6wH3uIDoDw

    Because DDoS/DoS CAN be stopped (Microsoft & Amazon are setup PERFECTLY vs. it in fact, read on below on that note)"

    Protect Against SYN Attacks

    FROM -> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff648853.aspx

    A SYN attack exploits a vulnerability in the TCP/IP connection establishment mechanism. To mount a SYN flood attack, an attacker uses a program to send a flood of TCP SYN requests to fill the pending connection queue on the server. This prevents other users from establishing network connections.

    To protect the network against SYN attacks, follow these generalized steps, explained later in this document:

    Enable SYN attack protection
    Set SYN protection thresholds
    Set additional protections
    Enable SYN Attack Protection

    The named value to enable SYN attack protection is located beneath the registry key:

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TcpIp\Parameters.

    Value name: SynAttackProtect

    Recommended value: 2

    Valid values: 0, 1, 2

    Description: Causes TCP to adjust retransmission of SYN-ACKS. When you configure this value the connection responses timeout more quickly in the event of a SYN attack. A SYN attack is triggered when the values of TcpMaxHalfOpen or TcpMaxHalfOpenRetried are exceeded.
    Set SYN Protection Thresholds

    The following values determine the thresholds for which SYN protection is triggered. All of the keys and values in this section are under the registry key

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TcpIp\Parameters

    These keys and values are:

    Value name: TcpMaxPortsExhausted

    Recommended value: 5

    Valid values: 0?65535

    Description: Specifies the threshold of TCP connection requests that must be exceeded before SYN flood protection is triggered.

    Value name: TcpMaxHalfOpen

    Recommended value data: 500

    Valid values: 100?65535

    Description: When SynAttackProtect is enabled, this value specifies the threshold of TCP connections in the SYN_RCVD state. When SynAttackProtect is exceeded, SYN flood protection is triggered.

    Value name: TcpMaxHalfOpenRetried

    Recommended value data: 400

    Valid values: 80?65535

    Description: When SynAttackProtect is enabled, this value specifies the threshold of TCP connections in the SYN_RCVD state for which at least one retransmission has been sent. When SynAttackProtect is exceeded, SYN flood protection is triggered.

    Set Additional Protections

    All the keys and values in this section are located under the registry key

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\TcpIp\Parameters. These keys and values are:

    Value name: TcpMaxConnectResponseRetransmissions

    Recommended value data: 2

    Valid values: 0?255

    Description: Controls how many times a SYN-ACK is retransmitted before canceling the attempt when responding to a SYN request.

    Value name: TcpMaxDataRetransmissions

    Recommended value data: 2

    Valid values: 0?65535

    Description: Specifies the number of times that TCP retransmits an individual data segment (not connection request segments) before aborting the connection.

    Value name: EnablePMTUDiscovery

    Recommended value data: 0

    Valid values: 0, 1

    Description: Setting this value to 1 (the default) forces TCP to discover the maximum transmission unit or largest packet size over the path to a remote host. An attacker can force packet fragmentation, which overworks the stack.

    Specifying 0 forces the MTU of 576 bytes for con

  59. Re:This May Work (they know each other) by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 1

    Face it, you didn't get the joke, dumbass...

    --
    -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
  60. What does DDOS mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one has really asked what this DDOS actually was. There are certainly attacks that could be quite difficult to control but in my experience a lot of this type of stuff is just something like script kiddies with Low Orbit Ion Cannon that the original poster could easily control themselves. With something like that you can take down a web site with a handful of clients but that means it is also pretty easy to put a stop to.

    We had a customer come to us whose web site was being taken down on a fairly regular basis. Just a couple of fail2ban rules was enough to make it stop.

  61. Yes he can... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41867815

    * Since THAT truly IS, "how it's done"...

    It's like that "old adage" (almost) - IF YOU WANT TO MAKE MONEY, YOU HAVE TO SPEND MONEY, albeit in THIS case IF HE WANTS TO KEEP MAKING MONEYONLINE, HE'LL HAVE TO SPEND SOME...

    APK

    P.S.=> Amazon & Microsoft are the "proof in the pudding", after all... Of course, they're Microsoft & Amazon (deep pockets for massively overbuilt infrastructure & bandwidth)

    ... apk

    1. Re:Yes he can... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you going to DDOS slashdot with your /etc/hosts spam?

  62. BGP mitigation 101 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are high profile enough to be extorted, you need to control your own routing and have staff that's experienced in DDoS mitigation already on staff.

    Between redundant links, selective route announcements, placing high profile targets on their own routable subnets and good cooperative relationships with your upstream providers, most attacks are survivable.

    The initial response should be automated - limit route announcements to a subset designed to provide some level of business continuity, without the site being attached being publicly reachable. This gives the attacking botnet as well as some of your legitimate traffic a "no route to host" condition. From this point, your network engineers should go to work, selectively restoring the announcements with a focus on areas where your customers are - ie if you were a small local firm, your priority would be to be reachable for whatever internet providers exist in your area first, if you are a national firm, you'd focus on domestic connectivity first - chances are, the botnet being used for the DDoS isn't even in the country you are operating in, and you can be back up, even while appearing offline to the attacker and their botnet.

    As you gradually allow traffic back in, you work with your upstream providers to isolate the DDOS traffic coming in as close to the source as possible. Within the first few minutes, by triaging who need to reach you the most, you've mitigated the worst of the impact, and are on track to completely nullify the attack.

  63. Re:Price gouging? YOU should have been prepared. by LoadWB · · Score: 1

    Well, you got me to respond, AC. The poster answered his own question: RackSpace provides a DDoS mitigation service. But more to your critique of my response, since he took the extra effort to fold a statement into his question I naturally assumed that this might be part of his question and deserved a response. Sure, his primary point was how to deal with a DDoS, but perhaps he should have stuck to that point and not drifted off into a thinly-veiled rant against RackSpace.

    If that was tl;dr, then perhaps "your mom" addresses your comment more in-line with your expectations.

  64. QUESTION by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can this be accomplished using the arp command on a Windows system? It controls routing iirc. I know other Operating Systems of UNIX nature have the route command, but I am curious for Windows.

    1. Re:QUESTION by papasui · · Score: 1

      It needs to be done on your router, or if you don't have one in front of your web site then on your service providers. ARP really doesn't apply here. (windows also supports the route command btw).

    2. Re:QUESTION by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you papasui.

  65. Amazon EC2 by Mullen · · Score: 1

    I just looked this up, but Amazon EC2 does not charge for INCOMING traffic. With a properly configured Webserver with security modules, the traffic comes in, but never goes out.

    And no one is going to flood Amazon.com off the 'net.

    --
    Linux O Muerte!
    1. Re:Amazon EC2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check this ddos protection out http://www.winkstreaming.com/en/wink_shield/

    2. Re:Amazon EC2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41867815

  66. Re:Grow up... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd have a lot more sympathy if you would log in as APK again instead of AC.

  67. Not wanting to stereotype people but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... nobody questioned if there are any potential terrorist angles here ?

    If you do this to enough businesses, even though the individual sums are mind it all adds up. Did your boss not stop to think me might have been aiding or abetting terrorism by sending money to Lebanon to pay off the extortionist?

    I most western countries these days such actions can get you into real trouble. The ONLY correct thing would have been to get the FBI in and draw this sucker out.

    Looks like your pointy-haired bosses need s to give things a bit more thought.

  68. Re:Price gouging? YOU should have been prepared. by LoadWB · · Score: 1

    I posit that the car analogy is valid for the part of his question in which he denigrates RackSpace for charging for immediate service. In the sense that returning his web site (car) to a usable state (repair service) which would have normally incurred a nominal cost (insurance) but instead he addressed it after the DDoS (wreck) and wanted the mitigation to happen at a lower rate (paying the body shop for next-day service out-of-pocket versus letting the insurance cover it and pay for a rental.)

    I like your pick-up on the effects on other customers and the wreck blocking the road. In terms of municipal services, the emergency responders are generally paid for by local taxes but services such as removal, repair of damage to public property, clean-up, and subsequent storage of the vehicle (if necessary) are all often billed to the party at fault.

  69. Re:Grow up... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    * People here have told you to "shove off" before... why don't you take their advice???

    Probably for the exact same reason YOU don't take our advice when we ask you to do exactly the same (meds included) or when we ask you to stop * YoUr weird => writing HABits

    That being said, I have to admit this guy is even more annoying than you. This is my first time ... agreeing with you ... I feel dirty.

  70. Re:Price gouging? YOU should have been prepared. by keller999 · · Score: 1

    Rackspace has more than enough bandwidth to cover anything but the largest DDoS attacks. However, that doesn't mean that your individual rack's switch, your load balancers, your servers, or your services are designed to handle it. DDoS will pretty much just tickle a bit for Rackspace. It's going to kill your servers far before it kills their infrastructure.

  71. WINK Sheild by XMichael · · Score: 1

    Take a look at this product, easier to use than most of the other options out there. All you need to do is change you DNS and your done. http://www.winkstreaming.com/en/wink_shield/

  72. It is gouging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The customers paying $1500 are definitely being gouged because either:

    1) $6000 is the whole cost of dealing with the attack, which means unless close to 1 in 4 sites get DDOSed you're paying too much for the insurance.
    or
    2) It costs more than $6000 to fix YOUR problem and everone else is subsidizing the OP's shortsighted stupidity.

    WAH WAH WAH

  73. Re:Cloudflare? by theonesandtwos · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    How is this modded insightful? The OP mentioned it in the fucking summary. You don't even read that anymore and get an insightful mod? Fuck off

  74. Rackspace guarantee? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Idle curiosity: if you pay Rackspace $1500 for "DDOS mitigation services", and you still get successfully attacked, what is your recourse?

  75. Cloudflare user by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 2

    I have been happy with cloudflare but I am pretty unhappy with slashdot today. Other than cloudflare (which is free and pretty good but not the best) I have seen not one easily implementable solution. I am shocked that nobody here has much of a suggestion.

    1. Re:Cloudflare user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:Cloudflare user by mysidia · · Score: 1

      I am pretty unhappy with slashdot today. ... I have seen not one easily implementable solution

      The question in the article is essentially a request for a cure to cancer, and then disappointment that noone in a health forum has an answer.

      They are asking a question that should be asked of a consultant who has a deep understanding of the OP author's current infrastructure, and an understanding of the specific kinds of DDoS and size of attacks they are being hit with.

      There are specific kinds of DDoS that do have an easily implemented cure. There are kinds of attacks that don't.

      The generic answer is: massively overbuild the capacity of your infrastructure, so you can withstand unexpected massive traffic bursts.

      Distribute your infrastructure geographically, and across multiple networks across the country, so visitors from different networks hit different geographic sites (fault isolation).

      Purchase various appliance solutions designed to provide DDoS mitigation for web server applications. Appropriate firewalls with simultaneous connection per IP limits, SYN flood protection.

      Insist that providers you peer with implement BCP38

    3. Re:Cloudflare user by TuringCheck · · Score: 1

      blah blah
      ...
      ...
      Have enough money to pay for all the above.

    4. Re:Cloudflare user by strikethree · · Score: 1

      I am shocked that nobody here has much of a suggestion.

      It is clear that you do not understand the situation. I have seen entire cities (San Diego) and entire states (Arizona) taken off line by DDoS attacks. You think a smallish company can do anything at all to defend?

      There are some things you can do to mitigate against weak players, distributed hosting and/or using a service provider with huge pipes, but really, there is still jack and shit that can be done when terabits of data go flying around on gigabit links.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  76. participating in a DDoS by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 1

    I may have been participating in a DDoS. UDP DNS requests were being made of my authoritative nameserver for domains in its bailywick, but I suspect the source IPs were spoofed victims and that the ANY record requests were designed to amplify the total data. These packets may be going out from a botnet and bouncing off legit DNS servers around the world, doubling or maybe octupling the data size, laundering the actual source IPs...

    Any recommendations on how to handle this sort of thing?

  77. Unplug the server and take the rest of the day off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I tell the boss there's a virus attack and am going to the hosting service to deal with it. Well, you know, play Halo.

  78. Need more info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Post the link to the website. Maybe if everyone on Slashdot has a look, we can figure this out.

  79. May I ask you a question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't apply here, so why would I post about hosts files? Answer that please.

    * Thank-You, since I feel that this particular article is of GREAT BENEFIT to others to learn by (I picked up "new tricks" in it myself, which is, of course, ALWAYS COOL!).

    (In other words - Don't mess it up for others with your b.s. clotting the page here!)

    APK

    P.S.=> Seriously - I cannot figure out WHY you do this, unless it's your "geek angst" acting up again, lol... I mean, just how BADLY are your "poor little feelings hurt" since you do that, & I must've obviously have gotten the best of you so many times on debates on computer-technical material that your "geek angst" has you doing this?

    You should seek somekind of professional psychiatric help, imo @ least... you need it, and to grow up!

    ... apk

    1. Re:May I ask you a question? by hxnwix · · Score: 1

      today on slashdot: area troll trolled by a troll trolling troll

  80. Danegeld by udachny · · Score: 1

    It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
    For fear they should succumb and go astray;
    So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
    You will find it better policy to say: --

    "We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
    No matter how trifling the cost;
    For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
    And the nation that plays it is lost!"

  81. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 0

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  82. Re:Price gouging? YOU should have been prepared. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, all they will do is nullroute the site's IP till the attack subsides. If you want the site to stay up expect to pay for the mitigation service witch truly is more expensive to set up and be effective on demand after the attack has already begun. No price gouging here, just unrealistic expectations.

  83. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  84. How widely distributed was it? by damn_registrars · · Score: 2

    Did they use a botnet that was scattered all over the world, or just a specific set of systems? I would recommend going through your logs to see what you can find out about the attack, there may be some patterns there that you can learn from.

    That said, a lot of people suggest you contact the authorities. I would suggest that those people have probably never tried that themselves. The authorities - local or federal - generally don't give a shit about cyber crime. They give it some (virtual) lip service on their websites but when presented with actual cyber crime they always find something more interesting to do with their time. After all, you said the criminal was in Lebanon, and the FBI has no jurisdiction there. Even if you found an FBI agent who cared, he wouldn't be able to get interpol working on it before the (electronic) check is cashed and the culprit has cleaned up his tracks.

    In other words, you have to do the work yourself. Maybe you can learn something from the logs, or maybe you'll need to look at distributed hosting to better prepare yourself for a potential future attack.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:How widely distributed was it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, if you count hacking and denial attacks against your goverment as acts of war, shouldn't the same things be considered terrorist attacks when done against private businesses or persons?

  85. Why don't routers along the way stop working too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those are who networking experts, please explain this. If enough packets sent to this person's web server were enough to take it down, why weren't those same packets enough to take down the routers along the way to his server? I would think that Rackspace would care about their routers to deal with the problem, and therefore not have to charge this person $6K to deal with it.

  86. Track and capture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The most common way to take care of DDoS is to simply capture a list of the captured packets. Then reverse DNS the packets to find his ISP, then inform the local police. As for stopping him, that is best done at the router, and can be handled many ways.
    One way would be to keep track of the number of packets received per time interval, if it's too high then just drop the extra packets. The disadvantage of this is that if you were to get a large load of customers then some customers would loose some packets.
    Two keep track of the number of packets sent from each IP-per time interval. if its too high then just block the IP for a while.
    Three block the block of address that the DDoS is coming in from, this method is the most all inclusive, but also has the possibility of blocking some real customers.

    Note: while all of these are working methods to block the attack they all have the same problem. They rely that the number of messages received does not eat up the entirety of your bandwidth. If the attackers bandwidth is greater than yours then this will be unavoidable. The best place to have this protection is on your ISP's servers, because then they (the DDoS netwrok operators) need to have more bandwidth than your ISP which is unlikely, and if they do take you down then they are also taking down your ISP which means that it becomes the ISP's problem. So, in effect I recommend you switch to an ISP that does have this kind of protection. If for no other reason than to pass the buck to your ISP, making it their expense.

    Lastly you can wait it out, while DDoS is annoying and costly, but it actually costs the attacker some resources to keep up. (mainly his network of computers, and their internet connections.) If attacking you is not profitable then he will remove you from his list and move on. Your paying him once has negated this effect as it is now profitable for him to attack you. If you don't somehow make it more costly to attack you then there is nothing stopping him from starting up the DDoS again and getting another $400+ from you. (Don't forget to make an attempt to track down who and where the you sent him $400 was picked up, this may aid you later.)

    Another option though this one isn't strictly legal, you can hire an counter hacker to hack his system. If your lucky and the hacker is good enough then the hacker can break into his network ans steal his data. You may even get a list of the companies he's attacking and you can use that to jointly strike back, (Using the law or other means) and it's likely that if the hacker is good enough then he can take down the DDoS network. A good place to look for these hackers is to watch CTF (Capture the Flag) torments. (These are events where a group of hackers attempts to hack into and steal a "flag" from their opponents while protecting their own "flag". Warning there are games where the CTF term is used and means nearly the same thing, so you need to do a bit of research to make sure that it is the right kind of CTF your looking for.)

  87. Don't fuel the fire by mysidia · · Score: 1

    Honestly, you're better off if you don't respond to the communique. If the attacker isn't able to reach you, they'll move on.

    The owner of the company negotiated with the guy, and he stopped his attack after receiving $400. A small price to pay to get the site online in our case. But obviously we want to come up with a solution that'll allow us to deal with these kinds of attacks in the future.

    You are FINANCING the attacker, by agreeing to pay, without receiving anything in exchange other than "They won't do X".

    This will encourage the attacker and their hacker buddies to do the same thing to others, and YOU in the future.

    In a few months, the same attacker and/or their buddies may be back requiring $1,600, $3000, etc.

    Purchasing a 3rd party anti-DDoS service or filtering service may be expensive, but at least you won't be contributing the problem you purport to be trying to solve.

  88. Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this article is written in the kind of english I got thrown into my head, then the answer is very easy: It may never happen because dinousaurs got extinct long ago. Sometimes even I forget I am a Computer Science Engineer. Must be the dinosaurs or Voldemort trying to come back...

  89. lol $6k? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Any respectable provider will help you address a dos attack without charging you 6 grand. While the method of attack can vary in complexity, we are talking about one of the most common problems a site/network admin has to face.

    I'd ask myself why I'm paying Rackspace good money when even the most basic of support services are ala cart for such extreme prices. I'm sure you can find a competitor that is much more reasonable.

  90. Re:Grow up... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If he made an account, it would be permanently posting at -1, and he'd only be able to post with it twice a day. There would be no lulz to be had from that.

  91. There's still no free lunch. by pushf+popf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Before I found that there was a lot more money and a lost less hours and stress doing consulting than being a cubicle drone, I worked for a large hosting company.

    Handling a DDOS attack is a piece of cake. We handled a few a week and this was in the early 2000s. We would watch the router traffic graphs and see a spike that might be eating 5% or 10% of our capacity and just grin. All you need is money. Your ISP needs giant pipes, spare server capacity distributed around the world and sharp network guys, and for the right price, they'll simply make the problem go away for you.

    However the cost of doing this means that if $1500 to Rackspace sounds like a lot of money, you're not in this league.

    If you're at the "less than $200/month" level for hosting, your best course of action is to not piss people off, and if you're attacked just hope you can wait it out.

    The "up side" of having a small site with cheap hosting is that it probably won't actually do much damage to your business if it's down for a few days.

  92. Re:Price gouging? YOU should have been prepared. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's not necessarilly correct - nullrouting particular IP does not cost much in equipment/engineering time, etc. "protecting" the traffic on the other hand is completely different story. If customer does not pay for protection services and is under DDOS which affects other customers, he is being simply nullrouted.

  93. Check out prolexic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they're well known by arge banks and ecomm as the market leader in DDoS prevention & mitigation - http://www.prolexic.com/

  94. DDoS Protection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.arbornetworks.com/products/peakflow

  95. bit torrent based site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like it's time for people to be able to avail of some form of torrent based technology in a site i.e. one that is everywhere. If people pool together and have their data distributed then they have to go after everyone - i.e. go after the internet itself. It's a big idea, but really the government are already at that stage of going after the internet, so I don't see the problem with it.

    The question is, do we have the technology to deploy a distributed data pool. (only as backup!! mind you) I think it would be too dangerous to have one big distributed data pool.

    It could be tiered for different bandwidth plans. Websites could classify themselves according to their bandwidth plans / needs and pool themselves into tiers.

    Somebody wake up Bram Cohen!

    1. Re:bit torrent based site by shmlco · · Score: 1

      That's fine for a simple webpage, but backing up the HTML won't work if the site is dynamic (e.g. database-driven). Any site with registrations, forums, logins, processes, searches, and so on, can't be simply be replicated and run everywhere.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  96. So, he's the one.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now I know the guy who took my cut..

  97. You failed.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You gave a terrorist money..... it's like giving a monkey food. They'll come back for more and if you don't give it freely next time they will bite.

  98. CloudFlare FTW by skaag · · Score: 1

    I use cloudflare successfully. You could have just spend the $20/month and had DDoS protection (as well as acceleration / CDN) for a very long time for those $400.

    --

    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...

    1. Re:CloudFlare FTW by Tarraq · · Score: 1

      Here's a look at an attack from cloudflares perspective http://blog.cloudflare.com/deep-inside-a-dns-amplification-ddos-attack

  99. A though one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I leave to the fellow readers the care of commenting whether you should or should not answer these e-mails. And I do believe you should contact your local authorities immediately to report this. I also understand that most of the business don't think they'll ever be victim of a DDoS attack.

    Concerning the DDoS in itself, for me the most important is to understand what was exhausted first: is it a compute resource (CPU, Memory, HDD space), a network device resource (CPU, Memory, Number of sessions) or a bandwidth issue. Based on those findings, you may be able to take steps to harden your infrastructure and be better prepared for the next time.

    If you need help with this, feel free to contact me off-line.

  100. Danegeld by Leofcwen · · Score: 1

    The age old problem of Danegeld... They keep coming back for more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danegeld

  101. myracloud protects your website by Sascha+Schumann · · Score: 1

    We just launched myracloud which is an IaaS for protecting sites from DDoS attacks.

    This is a very affordable solution which proxies your website, and we filter out all bad traffic.

    Compared to Verisign/Prolexic/Akamai this is a very affordable solution which offers even more fantastic features. E.g. InstantDisplay delays executing Javascript (inline+external) until the page has rendered.

    No changes necessary, we do all the hard work.

    Check out myracloud.com DDoS protection.

  102. Unprofessional by drolli · · Score: 2

    >They proceeded to tell me that they have 'DDoS mitigation services,'
    >but they cost $6,000 if your site is under attack at the time you use the
    >service. Once the attack was over, the price dropped to $1500. (Nice
    >touch there Rackspace, so much for Fanatical support; price gouging
    >at its worst).

    a) Ok. so now you could get it for $1500. The buy it. $1500 are roughly 18h of my time (as a consultant), so even the smalles action you coud do exceeds this. IFF you believe that this solves the problem then just do it and dont touch the rest. The advertisement on their web site sounds promising, bu did not test it.

    b) Price gouging? No, it is reasonable, for several reasons. Doing the DDoS protection uses resources, which are allocated, but (according to your definition unsused). Why on earth should customers wise enough to see the necessity of a immediate reaction, which pay for this service provide the support, upkeep and unallocated ressources for the others? Such a service is like an insurance. In average you can offer it for a certain price, but if you know the risk hits, its not an insurance any more. Moreover: The service seems to be based on detecting deviations in the traffic patterns. If the attack is ongoing there is no way to detect the "ground truth" = the normal operation automatically. Which in turn will require *much* more human attention.

  103. steadfast.net by jez9999 · · Score: 1

    Sorry for the shameless plug, but I've been a customer of Steadfast Networks for years now and they're the best hosts I've ever known. Excellent customer service, uptime, good value pricing, and they're had DDoS protection since 2007. If you're willing to be hosted in Chicago or New York, I'd go with them.

  104. DDOS-Deflator Script by ddped6328 · · Score: 1

    DDOS attacks are hard to stop because of the nature of the attack (multiple IPs hitting you). One solution I found was a simple, free script that you can run as a cron job named DDOS-Deflator. Here is the link: http://deflate.medialayer.com/. I am currently working on a C version of the script which responds much quicker. You can check my blog. I should have it available very soon as we are in final stages of testing http://www.sandidog.com./ As I said, DDOS is hard to stop until but the simple script has helped with some of the lamer DDOS/DOS attempts that I've seen in the past.

  105. Re:Cloudflare? by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

        Their blog post is *about* the DNS amplification DDoS that they're being attacked with.

        I was helping someone diagnose why their network was going to shit a few times a day. It turned out that they had recursive DNS still enabled. Watching the traffic, it looked like Cloudflare was attacking. In reality, it was spoofed traffic slamming them.

        I locked down that network, and had a nice conversation with one of their techs about it. Since the network I was working on has no business relationship with Cloudflare, we mutually decided to block the traffic.

        The attack is still ongoing. The logs are full of blocked DNS requests "from" Cloudflare. that's one of the pesky problems with spoofed traffic. The attacker doesn't know when the intermediary has blocked it, so they just keep attacking.

        I hadn't heard of them before, but I did a little looking. From what I could see from the outside, they have a pretty robust network.

        One place I worked was under constant DDoS attacks also. I couldn't even guess at how many attackers there were. They were all using different methods, from all over the world. We protected ourselves the best we could, dropping all unwanted traffic, and dynamically dropping networks based on current attacks. That was years ago, and we had multiple GigE circuits around North America. Since 90% of our traffic was legitimate outbound traffic, we had plenty of room to work with incoming DDoS. Basically, we handled it by having enough gear and bandwidth deployed, so it simply didn't matter. Attacks were a curiosity that we watched, not a catastrophic threat.

    --
    Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
  106. My hosting has DDOS protection built in by davidorourke · · Score: 1

    My hosting has DDOS protection built in and it dont cost anything extra. Get your account now: https://www.rapidvps.com/?vps=21125 They are excellent support too. Just tell them Dave from listbuilderdirect sent you. Super Dave

  107. To be accurate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "..To be fair, the Danegeld supported the Danelaw, which was far superior to the religious laws of England..."

    The Danelaw does not refer to a legal system - it refers to that part of England which the Danes held, and which was therefore under their jurisdiction. If you do not understand this period of history, you should not be writing about it... although, I suppose, this IS slashdot...

  108. Good for the Economy by Gallomimia · · Score: 1

    It has been a good read, the comments and story, so far. But I am minded of the game Uplink where hackers (script kiddies) get paid to do nasty things to competitors and so on. DDoS is not one of them. Instead destroying R&D, stealing corporate secrets, and hacking people's bank accounts are as creative as the game's designers could get. It's a fun game, but I must consider a world where this kind of activity grows and prospers.
    It would have two beneficial effects which I can think of: One it provides much needed jobs to highly skilled people, and a desire to become more skilled. The economy has always been built upon this principle, and the people who enslave us with money need more wastes of time and useless shit for people to do in return for the magic paper that permits us to get the necessities of life.
    In addition, having more incentive to perpetrate such crimes and more perpetrators incentivized to do so will create a real and genuine need for better security and defense against these attacks. I have read too often about terrible security leading to really easy hacks causing complete catastrophic chaos with systems responsible for millions or billions in revenue. Cite the playstation network for example. Those who work to secure these systems deserve a raise, more resources, and more colleagues in training to do this.
    The advancement in IT will only come from adversity. Comfort breeds no development.
    While I am not actually advocating paying a bunch of people to attack our cyber infrastructure, I do wish to bring up the idea and cause a discussion on the matter.

    --
    Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
  109. You should have... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... offered him $1200 for sufficient information to be able to sick the cops on your competitor.

  110. Prolexic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.prolexic.com/

    Don't know how much they cost, but they do damned good work in DDOS mitigation.

    M.

  111. Punitive damages from DDOS attackers??!?!?? by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Yeah, because a US judge is going to believe a "Lebanese hacker" who won't even come out from behind his seven proxies, much less show up in person, who's admitting that you bribed him to testify against your competitor instead of attacking you, because the fact that you had to bribe him to rat out the person who allegedly paid him indicates that he's entirely trustworthy. Even if it's entirely true and the judge believes it, it's not up to the standards of proof it would take to find for you and against your competitor or do any more than give them a restraining order against doing it again.

    About the only way you're going to accomplish anything is to pay him with some traceable payment system and follow the money. If he takes credit cards, you can maybe trace it to some hawalladar that's handling them for him, but it's unlikely that you'll get more than a burner bank account or a corner store, and get Visa to cancel the store's merchant account, which might annoy the attacker the next time some sucker tries to pay him.

    The best extra-legal counter-attack I've seen was the one in Cheswick and Bellovin's original firewall book. They'd tracked down the attacker, who was a teenage kid in the Netherlands, where there wasn't any computer-hacking law yet, so "we did the next best thing - we called his mom."

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  112. Like the first payment to a 419er by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Oh, no, if you want to get that $600 into the country, you're going to have to register your bank account with the Ministry of Finance, and here's the phone number for the minister, Jonathan Goodluck!

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  113. You can mitigate, no more. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can only distribute your services and hope some survive. Anycast may be an option (some of your servers will be visible by parts of the world). But it's all about firepower and you will never be big enough.

    There are really many ways to DDoS. (The obvious and less obvious ones)

    To reduce the options given to criminals, AS should filter spoofed IPs (ie: drop inside messages that are not emanating from an inside IP, outside messages that are emanating from an inside IP). But doing this is expensive so they mostly don't.

  114. Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Identify attack
    2. Null route boxes current ip's and get new ip's
    3. Engage cloudflare "im under attack!" setting
    4. ?????
    5. Profit!

    Or if they are http flooding using your domain name as a point of refrence, redirect your domain to something creative.

  115. A couple things to suggest by druiid · · Score: 1

    As the Sys-Admin for a relatively large e-commerce provider we have had our share of DDoS attacks. The first thing, is don't negotiate. Cut your losses and take the site down for a bit if you need to, regroup.

    After that... switch your site to Cloudflare or a similar service.

    After that... investigate if you want to continue using Rackspace for services. I suggest contacting me directly if you have questions, but suffice it to say we moved away from Rackspace because they and their data-center kept getting VERY large profile DDoS attacks which we were sometimes affected by even if we weren't directly targeted. We have had several months of service that they ended up paying for, for instance. Essentially Rackspace recently (at least their colo stuff) has not been providing 'superior' services.

  116. Re:This, works... apk by hxnwix · · Score: 1

    http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3228991&cid=41867815

    * Since THAT truly IS, "how it's done"..... apk

    Windows registry keys? How would changing Windows registry keys mitigate a flood DDOS that saturates your provider's inbound bandwidth?

  117. For the record, colocation wins here.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have our dedicated server colocated (5U, ~$400 a month) at a nice, relatively small colocation datacenter (SMALL, less than 100,000 sq ft, not Rackspace, and definitely much better overall IMO) in the midwest, and they offer DDoS handling services FREE. On demand, too. If we are being DDoS'd, chances are they know about it before we do and are already handling it.

    It's happened before. We were down for about 2 minutes, I think, before somebody noticed and shut it down. In 99% of the cases, it is more important to the data center to handle the excessive hits than it is to let them flow into their network unchecked. Chances are they don't want to deal with the overhead of a DDoS anyway, and will have it cut off at their top peering node at earliest notice possible.

  118. A couple of answers by Alarash · · Score: 1

    There are two answers that come to mind. A) Use a "middleware-network", like CloudFlare. As others have mentioned, they are specialized in DDoS mitigation, advanced heuristics to find bots, and cache content. Most of the service is free, and you can crank it up at any time (I believe) to get more serious features (like when you're under attack). Look into this.

    B) Buy your own DDoS migitation device. Either go for a UTM and/or a WAF (Web Application Firewall) so you can also be protected from most of the HTTP exploits (oftentimes a DDoS is there just to sneak an actual exploit in by overloading the IPS). But those are costly, and it's costly to pick the right one (you'll need professional tools to test them under stress, like Spirent's Avalanche or Ixia's Ix Load, and their services cost like $10,000/week).

    I guess there's a C), which would be a cloud-based host. I'm pretty sure their DDoS protection is built-in since they can't have one website under attack without impacting the rest of the architecture - you might want to check that.

  119. Definitely look into CloudFlare by mitchy · · Score: 1

    Been using them for a couple web applications now, and quite happy with the results. If I've been attacked, I didn't know about it ;-)

    Only downside to CloudFlare is that they have to host your DNS, and my biggest app already is under contract with another company. So for cost reasons I'm stuck either living with dual-invoices for another ten months, or living with a website that doesn't have the caching and IDS/DDoS gizmos offered by CloudFlare.

    --
    "The mind is a terrible thing to, um, uh, oh bollocks." -- Me
  120. Re:This, works... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at the settings used that are suggested by Microsoft and what they do versus for example SYN-ACK DoS/DDoS.

  121. Are you on topic, troll? No! Go away... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject-line above, & "shoo", little troll... grow up!

    APK

    P.S.=> How unbelievably droll & ironic (as well as utterly STUPID of you too), that YOU would call ME a troll, & yet YOU are off-topic, a classic "troll sign" if EVER there was one...

    ... apk

  122. On Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As most noted, contact the police.

    The poster whom mentioned the BGP is great.

    1) A good router configured correctly will help a lot.
    2 ) A good cisco smart switch configured correctly will provide a great second line of defense.
    3) Finally, use sysctl to set you fundamental network settings on the server or VM correctly (see IBM's security doc on this settings). You could probably change similar settings in huk...Win Servers. (a fundamentally a poor OS for the internet)

    These three items set even halfway properly will mitigate any DDOS in the future.

    Mark V.