Electric Velomobiles: Urban Transportation For the Future, Available Now

An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from Low-Tech Magazine: "Both the velomobile and the electric bicycle increase the limited range of the cyclist — the former optimises aerodynamics and ergonomics, while the latter assists muscle power with an electric motor fuelled by a battery. The electric velomobile combines both approaches, and so maximises the range of the cyclist — so much so that it is able to replace most, if not all, automobile trips. A quarter of the existent wind turbines in the U.S. would suffice to power as many electric velomobiles as there are Americans." One thing I wish was included in the article — worth reading for the photos alone! — is a chart with prices and worldwide availability for more of the vehicles mentioned. They do mention, though, that the eWAW ("the Ferrari of the velomobiles") costs 7790 Euro.

Comments

one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

they all look like penises.

Re:one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

*ahem* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFQu2HgDTwQ

Re:one problem

[siddesu]

What they look like is not a problem, what is the problem is they cost as much as a k-car (sub 600cc) in Japan. And a k-car nowadays is exactly like a real car if you obey the traffic rules. So I can't really see a reason on buy one of these.

Re:one problem

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

I have a velomobile. I ride between 6 and 10 thousand miles a year - which is actually pretty easy, given that the velomobile is fast and protects you from the weather so you ride year round without any trouble.

With the gasoline I save, the depreciation of the car I don't use when I ride the velo, parking tickets I don't have to pay... the velo paid for itself in 3 years. After that it's all free miles.

Re:one problem

[noh8rz10]

the car depreciates whether or not you ride the velo. even if it stays in your garage.

Re:one problem

[siddesu]

This would only be close to true if you limit your car usage to match what you use the "velomobile" (whatever that is) for.

I have an two-seat enclosed recumbent bicycle, which ought to be pretty close to a "velomobile". The bike is a good replacement for a short leisure trip, but not for much else. Shopping, especially weekly shopping, longer trips, trips with more than one person and a half, trips in bad weather, etc. are all much easier and much more pleasant in the car.

So, forgive me, but I feel you're stretching it quite a bit.

Re:one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

"Overrated" != Disagree.

Re:one problem

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Not nearly as much. A 3 year old car with 10,000 miles on the clock will sell much better than the same 3 year old car with 50,000 miles.

Re:one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

But "Overrated"=Overrated

Re:one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Not nearly as much. A 3 year old car with 10,000 miles on the clock will sell much better than the same 3 year old car with 50,000 miles.

To a point. But, really, there is a narrow range of value for any given year of vehicle regardless of mileage. That range generally gets narrower as the vehicle gets older. Collector items are a different beast but a '89 McVehicle isn't worth much no matter what.

Re:one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an two-seat enclosed

Does no one know how to use a and and anymore? An AC above said " a '89' ". I haven't seen anyone talk about this increasing trend. If this continues, I may have to open an account just to police this. Someone has to do it. I saw a Unitarian with an umbrella.

Re:one problem

[FishTankX]

No insurance, no Shaken, no gas bills? A battery small enough that you can drag it back to your apartment to charge it?

Kei cars, insurance and gas costs, at a conservative 5000 miles per year, will still run you like $1500 per year average. That pays for the velomobile in about 7 years.

Re:one problem

[siddesu]

Except a velomobile seems like a very poor substitute for a kei.

Re:one problem

[FishTankX]

Yeah. Many people have different transportation needs in Japan. I live in a compact city where my farthest commute is 7KM each way. So for me, a road bike works perfectly. Paid about 5 man for it, and I can make the commute out there in about 25 minutes. This works for me because i've essentially (with repairs) paid a little over 3 man a year i've had it, over 3 years. So it's been a good investment versus getting a kei car (20 man), driving school (no license, so 30 man), 3 years of insurance (30 man), shaken (10 man), and gas (my odo says i've gone 4k on my bike, so let's just say that would be probably about 6 man) . So i've saved about 10 grand.

But if I lived in a town where my farthest commute was more like 40km, cycling would be impractical. So i'd have to go that route. Plenty of people live in the burbs and commute in, for them a kei car is economical. That's their living situation.

However, where the Velo really comes in handy is when you're commute is like 20km, because a Velo can easily maintain 50kph with a fit cyclist, doesn't mind rain, and etc. If you're commuting 40km round trip, your kei would be eating 3/4 of gas a day. 5 days a week 45 weeks a year that's 8 man a year just for gas. You tack on supplemental insurance (10 man a year) and you're shaken (10 man every 2 years, so let's just say 5 man). So you're looking at a yearly running cost of of 23 man. At those prices, that 8000 euro velo will pay for itself in 4 years. And if you're spending say, half an hour in the gym per day to stay fit, you can shift that half an hour in the gym to your hour of cycling. Considering that, the times would equalize.

So there are many different angles you can work on this. Some people might pick the Velo. I know I would, for fitness. The same reason why I haven't bought a car, only having a bicycle forces me to cycle everywhere and has helped me loose 50 pounds.

Re:one problem

[Dagger2]

No, we do. Incorrect grammar has a tendency to spread; people use it because they've read it elsewhere so often that it pops to mind when they're writing text themselves. I even find that I'm beginning to think "it's" for the possessive form of "it", because that error is so damn pervasive.

Many people, when called on bad grammar, will use the defence that "nobody cares so I'm just going to continue being wrong". If the GP wants to go around correcting them of that notion, then I will support him in that.

Re:one problem

[siddesu]

Unlike a bicycle, you'll need a parking spot for this in Japan. Also, I am not quite sure what kind of treatment you will get in terms of license requirements from the government. I'm afraid this thing will be treated more like a scooter than like a bicycle on the account of speed and size. As for "doesn't mind rain", well, my tricycle disagrees, it does mind rain a bit. You can't get in and out the same way you do form a car.

So, yeah, for a niche market it probably makes sense, but for most people that need transportation and not a toy it doesn't look like a good choice.

But maybe we'll see some interesting development as the genre matures.

Re:one problem

[gomiam]

When you get that defence, answer: "Well, since nobody cares I'll keep criticizing your writing" :)

Re:one problem

[gomiam]

Man=1000, right?

Re:one problem

[CohibaVancouver]

the "velomobile" (whatever that is)

RFTA!

Re:one problem

[CohibaVancouver]

Many people, when called on bad grammar, will use the defence that "nobody cares so I'm just going to continue being wrong". If the GP wants to go around correcting them of that notion, then I will support him in that.

+1

As will I. I'll cut a lot of slack for a guy who is obviously posting to Slashdot from somewhere where English is not a first language, but if you're some dude posting from your mom's basement in Ohio I will expect better.

Re:one problem

[KayakFun]

I have one too, the Sinner Mango+ with a 170W assist. It has an 11-speed hub gear in the rear which allows me the switch gears while standing stil, and a big metal U-ring which I use to chain it to an ebject wherever I park, not only against theft but also against strong winds which my blow the velomobile away.

My car ride to work is 38 km and takes between 25 (holiday season) and 60 minutes (normal traffic outside holiday season). With the Mango+ it always takes 65 minutes as I am not slowed down by traffic. The removable battery needs to be charged home and at work, so half my energy cost is even subsidized by my employer (but it isn't much anyway). With motor off, I cycle at ~32 km/h, with power I manage 38-42 km/h. The seat is comfortable and all 3 wheels are sprung, but it still is a bumpy ride due to the road quality, and the fact that you must keep your tires at 5-6 bar to reduce drag.

Without the wind cooling you, it can be hot in the summer, even with the foam top off. In the winter I wear a nitted cap, and a shawl around my neck, the rest stays warm inside. For me it keeps me in shape without loosing time in the gym, I exercise in the time I could have spent in traffic. At work I take a shower, which I would have taken at home if I went by car. I clock in after the shower, of course. For safety, I have daytime running lights (LED) and I chose a 2-tone (red & white) paintjob. When sharing the car roads you have to drive it very defensively as if nobody is seeing or expecting you, on bicycle paths the danger is a lot less. Part of my trip is on a bicycle path parellel to the slow-moving traffic, and it is very satisfying to go faster than the traffic jam.

Re:one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

At 80 times more efficient than cars, parent should be modded flamebait,

Re:one problem

[Maritz]

Confirmation bias. Do a study and show it's increasing, then I might care. ;)

Re:one problem

[flyneye]

Another problem, no matter how many Americans drive their Velomobile, there will still be exactly as many Freight Trucks on the road who already have trouble seeing small cars and motorcycles. Motorcycles have the advantage of making a bit of noise to indicate their presence in traffic which still isn't much when you consider the number of accidents arising from increased usage due to fuel prices. Still wanna get in a green vehicle?

Re:one problem

[flyneye]

Bad form, but a good example http://www.black-and-right.com/wp-content/uploads/Smart-crash.jpg

Re:one problem

[sycodon]

From TFA:
-- so much so that it is able to replace most, if not all, automobile trips.

Stupidest thing I've read in a while. I'm gonna jump in this thing in my fancy Tight Suit and ride the 12 miles to work in August when it's 105 degrees.

Ok, right.

Re:one problem

[siddesu]

How will "RFTA" help me to figure out what Rosco Coltrane has?

Re:one problem

[FishTankX]

Sorry, that should've been clarified. A man is 10,000 yen, which roughly equals $120.

Re:one problem

[SoftwareArtist]

I'm curious how practical you find it in day to day use. This sort of vehicle seems like it could be really incompatible with existing infrastructure. It's too wide for many bike lanes, too slow to mix with cars, it doesn't fit on bike racks which rules out taking it on buses and trains. How do you work around those problems? And what do you do with it when you reach your destination? How do you lock it up?

Re:one problem

[ChrisMaple]

Bad grammar and bad spelling can lead to interpretations opposite the writer's intent. It is not impossible that a lazy mistake in a contract could bankrupt you. Then you'll not only "give a fuck", you'll be fucked.

Re:one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Bet that the savings on gas alone far outweigh your depreciation argument.

Re:one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Man=1000, right?

it's 10000

Re:one problem

[Anonymous Coward]

10K Yen. East Asian counting uses multiples of 100 like we use multiples of 1000. So 100, 10,000, 1,000,000...

Cycle tracks

[hack slash]

One of the places a velomobile would legally allowed to go but access (especially here in the UK) would often make it impossible to enter, which is why I really like my electric bike as it will happily go on roads and cycle tracks without fuss. But I wish the councils would fix the roads, pot holes are a bane (and sometimes danger) to the cyclist.

Re:Cycle tracks

[dunkelfalke]

If you ride a decent full suspension MTB, pot holes suddenly become fun ;-)

Re:Cycle tracks

[Rogerborg]

And if you ride a decent full suspension MTB, anywhere but potholes, it quickly becomes a chore because of all the energy you're losing pumping into the springs and those fat tyres. Yes, I've tried it.

Look, I pedal to work on the few days a year when it seems likely that I won't arrive drenched in either rain, sweat or blood, but let's not pretend that it's a realistic transport panacea.

Re:Cycle tracks

[drinkypoo]

You can fix the tire problem by running hybrids, like armadillos. You can fix the suspension problem by buying a shock with a stop that can be fixed. Then the only problem is the extra ten pounds of bike you're lugging around that could have been a street bike. Thing is, IMO street biking is solely for people who don't care if they die excessively sooner than necessary. And an enclosure that isn't a crash cell only makes the experience more dangerous by severely limiting your mobility. In the worst case I can fling myself off of my bicycle, possibly off of an embankment, to avoid a car, if one should try to run me down on one of the fire roads I occasionally have to use between trails. If I were sitting down in a plastic cocoon all I could do would be to pedal hard, steer for the embankment, and hope that I slide into a tree soon rather than down the hill forever.

Re:Cycle tracks

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe the problem doesn't lie with the transport, but the institution that places requirements not to arrive in blood, sweat or rain.

Re:Cycle tracks

[MartinSchou]

With the type of bike talked about in the article, you can rule out rain and sweat as a show stopper, and then you're only facing blood when you have serious accidents.

It's not a panacea, amongst other reasons due to some of the issues raised in the article, but all too many people seem to think it is impossible to ride a bike to and from work on a daily basis (I'm not saying you're one of them).

This is in stark contrast with what you see in large European cities like Copenhagen, where 35% of all workers and students use a bicycle for their commute. That's a city where the municipality alone has half a million people, and what most people would consider the urban area has another 700,000 inhabitants.

Is it a panacea? No. But I wouldn't mind seeing what'd happen in Copenhagen, if the eWAW and similar bicycles were legal to use and affordable in Denmark. I'm pretty sure we would see a lot more bike riders.

It obviously won't replace everything - goods still need to be transported, not everyone wants to ride a bike (even if they don't have to provide any power themselves) etc.

It's a relatively small area, and since the eWAW seems to be capable of about 60 km unassisted at 30 km/h with a small battery (I'm guessing 500 Wh), this would rival make a lot of car commutes once you take rush hour into consideration, and with commutes about 30 km or less, we're not looking at close to two million inhabitants.

With a 500 Wh battery, you'd need 1,000 MWh to charge the batteries needed for two million bikes. Let's call it 1200 MWh by including some inefficiencies in transmission and charging. And let's assume that on average they need to be charged in 4 hours.

That requires 300 MW in production capacity, or to put it into perspective, roughly the same energy as put out by 8,000 cars using 50 HP. 300 MW is less than 8% of the wind power capacity in Denmark as of 2011. And as someone pointed out, charging a 500 Wh battery can be done with a relatively small solar panel. And while it'd obviously increase the weight and cost, I wouldn't be surprised, if you could get most of the 250 W, that the motor peaks at, from panels installed on the bike itself.

Incidentally the cost of charging a 350 Wh battery is less than one Euro (DKK 4.22/kWh or roughly 57 cent/kWh) at the most expensive prices I can find. It's pretty difficult to find a cheaper way to travel 60 km.

Sadly these bikes aren't cheap. Not even close to cheap. They seem to cost in the neighbourhood of 5,000 to 10,000 Euros, which puts them fairly close to the cost of a small car, and thus makes them much less viable as a replacement for the car for commuting.

It's a shame, because it'd make for a serious decrease in local air and noise pollution.

Re:Cycle tracks

[Anonymous Coward]

Thing is, IMO street biking is solely for people who don't care if they die excessively sooner than necessary.

In Toronto, Canada, according to a recent study, the fatality rate for bicyclists is actually lower than that of both motorists and pedestrians. Statistically, you're safer pedaling around than other forms of movements.

(Yes, I know there are giant, gaping holes in this type of logic. Still, it's often not as bad and unsafe as many people make it out to be.)

Re:Cycle tracks

[drinkypoo]

The thing about a bicycle is that I am more at the mercy of others because they are moving so fast I cannot possibly get out of their way if they screw up badly enough. If I am buying a car, I can at least mitigate the problem of being in the same situation by purchasing a car with advanced safety features. The advantage of a bicycle is that you are more likely to be able to avoid something you see coming from far away, because you can get off the road entirely, but in every other situation you're meat.

I'd like to see more bike trails and paths in the world, and less places which are only convenient to reach by car. That would make things safer and more pleasant for everyone.

Re:Cycle tracks

[dunkelfalke]

I made 2000 km this year with a full suspension MTB (and another 1500 on a hardtail). It is not that bad if you've got a platform rear suspension (Manitou SPV, Fox ProPedal, you name it) and slick tyres. So no, it is not anywhere as bad as you describe it.

Re:Cycle tracks

[tylernt]

MTB ... is not that bad if you've got ... slick tyres

Agreed -- that's what I use. And you can air up those slick tires to rock-hard pressures for even less rolling resistance, while still retaining some degree of ride quality thanks to the suspension.

Re:Cycle tracks

[dasunt]

Look, I pedal to work on the few days a year when it seems likely that I won't arrive drenched in either rain, sweat or blood, but let's not pretend that it's a realistic transport panacea.

A countless amount of people manage to ride the bus everyday to and from work. That almost always includes a walk to or from a bus stop.

If these individuals manage to walk without any issue, I don't see why they can't replace that leg of a trip with a bicycle (electric or otherwise).

Re:Cycle tracks

[tehcyder]

maybe the problem doesn't lie with the transport, but the institution that places requirements not to arrive in blood, sweat or rain.

i.e. every institution apart from the Navy SEALS or similar

Re:Cycle tracks

[Anonymous Coward]

I built myself a 48 volt 20 amp hour yuba mundo cargo bike and I use it to commute (and everything else)..the only time I get in a car now a days is when I'm riding with a friend. It cost me about 3800 dollars and some sweat and tears and I love it. Nice thing is-that battery should be good for 8 or more years if I take care of it (LiFe). I've never had an accident, but then, I had a motorcycle before this and I learned to watch out for careless cages. I DO have full coverage bicycle ins. (600 yr.) If it gets cold, I wear good gloves.
    Other than violent thunderstorms (I ride thru them) I can't see why they can't replace cars for most things. I concede-you can't carry plywood on a bike, nor really heavy things like washing machines..but how often do you need to do that? I get them delivered.

Re:Cycle tracks

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh..and I have 40 miles of range at 25 mph.Top speed is 48.

Re:Cycle tracks

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, a 250W panel is 1x2m and thats not considering loses. There is a reason you don't see solar powered cars.

Not to mention the sail factor on a 2 wheel vehical!

25 miles per hour

[Geoffrey.landis]

The headline says "Fast and Comfortable as Automobiles" but later in the text it says "Over a period of about an hour and a half, Brecht and I managed to reach an average speed of 40 km/h (25 mph)" and "my attempt to go any faster than 50 km/h (30 mph) left me frustrated -- the vehicle lacks the high gears needed for those speeds" (and the article goes on to note that the electric motor cuts out entirely at that speed; it's entirely pedal powered.)
I wouldn't call "able to reach average speeds of 25 miles per hour" to be "fast as automobiles."

Re:25 miles per hour

[hack slash]

Legal reasons are a likely for the explanation of the motor cutting out at a certain speed. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws for a comprehensive breakdown of legalities regarding electric bikes speed/weight/motor power in US states and around the world.

Re:25 miles per hour

[adolf]

In town, the average speed of my car tends to hover below 20MPH.

I don't think I want a velomobile for any sort of highway jaunt, but it might be handier than a car for getting to the store that's about 9 blocks from my house.

Re:25 miles per hour

[Anonymous Coward]

In town, the average speed of my car tends to hover below 20MPH.

Well, in my town (Mountain View, CA), 35 mph is a much more reasonable top speed. Anyone familiar with the area can attest that using a lane at 25 mph on Shoreline or El Camino is going to net a fair number of unhappy people passing around your velomobile.

In short, limiting this vehicle to ~25 mph would limit its use to things pretty much already within walking or biking distance in many areas.

Re:25 miles per hour

[bbelt16ag]

thanks was looking for a link to that!

Re:25 miles per hour

[bbelt16ag]

better off using a bike at that point.

Re:25 miles per hour

[ls671]

Speed maniacs buy modified Sinclair C5 tricycles that go 150 mph:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5#Modified_C5s

Re:25 miles per hour

[Hentes]

Yeah it's not very fast my average speed is 30km/h on my MTB, a simple racing bike can do a 40km/h average.

Re:25 miles per hour

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit. Only few road cyclists manage 40km/h in average and with expensive tri-bikes. A VM with such an athlete would easily reach 60+ km/h.

Re:25 miles per hour

[realityimpaired]

but it might be handier than a car for getting to the store that's about 9 blocks from my house.

You know what else might be handier for a store that close? Walking. And I'll sell you all the equipment you need for the discount price of 5000 Euro! That's more than 2000 Euro less than the Velomobile!

Re:25 miles per hour

[reboot246]

I don't think I want a velomobile for any sort of highway jaunt, but it might be handier than a car for getting to the store that's about 9 blocks from my house.

I hope you're not planning to buy much at that store. The velomobile hasn't got much space for stuff.

Re:25 miles per hour

[MightyYar]

Are you insane? That would take almost 10 minutes! I don't have 10 minutes! :)

When I lived in Manhattan, 10 blocks was approximately the threshold where I'd consider hopping on a bus, depending on the weather and traffic. It was a 10-15 walk to the subway, so I have kind of a different perspective on walking distances than most of my suburban brethren. If I walk 2 miles with my kids to the ice cream shop, they think I've gone mad.

Re:25 miles per hour

[aaarrrgggh]

In California, "Neighborhood Electric Vehicles" are limited to roads with a posted speed limit of 35MPH or less. If the eWAW is lumped into the same classification, I can't imagine any 10-mile commute routes you could possibly use it for. In LA, if there was a way to get from the beach to Riverside in one of these I would be up for one.

(Don't own a car, ride bike 3 miles to work every day... and rent a car when I need one for work.)

Re:25 miles per hour

[Ol Biscuitbarrel]

Neighborhood Electric Vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Feds mandate 20-25 MPH tops but with mods NEVs can go as high as 45 MPH, the legality of this depending on locale. Literally, your mileage may vary. This only makes sense owing to the risks a driver faces at higher speeds.

I could get anywhere in my town of 23k with a NEV at 35. There are stretches at 40 but just go into granny mode there; or does that breach the law as well? I'd guess not, what with governors in UHauls restricting speed to 50 MPH.

Re:25 miles per hour

[tehcyder]

I wouldn't call "able to reach average speeds of 25 miles per hour" to be "fast as automobiles."

It depends where you live. In London, the average traffic speed is about 10mph. However, if you're commuting 50 miles each way on open roads country roads, then you will be going a lot quicker in a car.

Re:25 miles per hour

[citab]

I commute to work by bike many days of the year. My average speed is almost the same as a car in traffic. On some days it's faster. Not because I'm breaking any traffic laws, it's just that cars tend to hurry up to the next stop light and wait. I don't, I keep pedaling while they are stopped. My speed doesn't come down during my ride much. Granted this is only on roads where the speed limit is 25 mph, but it's the same avg speed the cars are going on that road.

Cars are very inefficient as a mode of transport. Still necessary for certain situations, but if you have the ability and freedom to ride your bike to work, it makes for a nice life (fitness, peace of mind, lower fuel bills).

Re:25 miles per hour

[adolf]

Average speed.

Top speed in my car, in town, with my driving, is ridiculously high. My average is far, far lower (red lights, turning, stop signs, etc).

Re:25 miles per hour

[adolf]

I haven't used a UHaul truck with a governor in a coon's age; all of those that I've driven over the past decade or so were perfectly capable of going down the highway at any speed I dared to attempt.

Re:25 miles per hour

[adolf]

How much beer, soda pop, kitty litter, dog food, and dinner are you willing to haul 10 blocks on foot?

Me, not so much (or at least, not enough). So, car it is. Or a velomobile, just maybe...

(I've been considering outfitting my bike to be able to carry more things effectively, but between the local stores' paranoia (OMG! He's shopping, and he has a backpack!) and the vandalism I've experienced with parked bicycles in the past, it's not looking promising. Nevermind the general hatred that drivers have toward cyclists here...)

Re:25 miles per hour

[MightyYar]

How much beer, soda pop, kitty litter, dog food, and dinner are you willing to haul 10 blocks on foot?

In NYC we had a folding "old lady cart". If I had the kids with me, I used the stroller. If the amount was too excessive or if I didn't have the cart with me, they would deliver for $5. A car was not an option, since I didn't own one!

Now I'm in the suburbs, and we have a co-op opening up about the same distance away. It will be interesting to see how I use it. For a bag or two, I'd definitely still walk - but I suspect that I'll mostly be stopping by on my way home from somewhere else, which means I'll have the car. On a nice day, I already use my bike to get groceries at the local store - but that's mostly because the parking lot is so insane there that it's faster for me to bike if it's just a few items. It also lets me bike, which is rare out here in the suburbs (but still more sane than in NYC).

Re:25 miles per hour

[Ol Biscuitbarrel]

From what I've gathered looking at forums Penske/UHaul seem to install governors for 70-75 MPH - more than fast enough. I rented a UHaul 7 years ago that did have one set at 60 MPH, though, as did others in the more distant past. Seems like 75 would be a good goalpost, fast enough to get you onto Interstate onramps and haul across vast empty spaces.

Re:25 miles per hour

[adolf]

Ahh. Delivery groceries? Sign me up: It would be swell to take a walk to the store, shop, and then walk back and have the stuff delivered some time later.

Here in my town of ~40k in Ohio, we don't have such niceties. It's not suburban by any stretch of the imagination, as the next-biggest city is 45 miles away (with a whole lot of nothing between here and there). It's just a geographically-isolated small town, and everyone either drives or is driven to their destination.

The sidewalks tend to be pretty badly beaten up by the ancient (huge, and awesome) trees that line them, so small-wheeled carts are a no-go. And traffic is pretty hostile toward bikes if for no other reason than nobody seems to do much of anything practical with them in these parts.

So, for now, it is car.

Re:25 miles per hour

[MightyYar]

You need one of these:

Ohio-proof shopping cart

I'm not gonna lie... anything delivered is sweet. They actually have a grocery delivery service here in the suburbs now - I haven't tried it yet.

Re:25 miles per hour

[adolf]

Well, maybe that's it: Perhaps I just didn't feel like pushing an abused 25' box truck down the highway (full of my worldly possessions) any faster than 70-ish.

Legal considerations

[sapphire wyvern]

Interesting article.

However, I think the big problem for these is safety, particularly if you must share the road with cars, trucks and busses. Even for a very fit driver, 50 km/h seems to be a high speed, which is significantly lower than general road traffic in Australia. Combine that with the extremely low profile... let's just say that the odds of getting caught dead in one of these seem a little high for my comfort.

Now, in cities with excellent bike networks, that wouldn't be such an issue - IF the vehicle actually meets the legal requirements for use on bike paths. I'm not sure whether these would be allowed on the bike network in my city. If I had to guess, I'd say the purely muscle powered ones probably are, but I am honestly unsure about the electric/muscle hybrids.

I don't think I'd pay 8000 euros, but if there is one available for, say, 1000 euros, I think I would be interested. You'd want to have somewhere to keep it locked up and safe, though.

Re:Legal considerations

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, I can't imagine waxing this thing let alone climbing into something that looks like a giant prop from a porno movie.

Re:Legal considerations

[tftp]

Even for a very fit driver, 50 km/h seems to be a high speed,

This is one of my personal concerns about bicycle riders. They pedal so hard that they can't look around - they are too busy. On a motorbike it's not a problem, your body is free to lean and look back. This vehicle at least helps with that problem because it is inherently stable.

I'm not sure whether these would be allowed on the bike network in my city.

This vehicle is not very likely to fit into most bike lanes. And it is not suitable for bike paths that are not perfectly flat (with only 6" of clearance it got to be perfect.) I am not sure what major advantage would an avid bicycle rider have with this one if electric assist is not effective at speed. Most riders do OK at low speeds on their own.

You'd want to have somewhere to keep it locked up and safe, though.

You might just as well drop 8,000 euros on the ground and walk away :-) IMO, this ridiculous price is only to harvest the early crop of rich fools. Then the price is halved, and the new set of fools are harvested, and so on - until the price drops to some realistic number, like $300. That, IMO, would be a fair price for a crude bicycle under a cheap fiberglass shell, with a battery and a DC motor from a handheld vacuum cleaner of the variety that is sold for $25 in drug stores.

Re:Legal considerations

[Anonymous Coward]

Agree completely about the potential safety issues.

The velomobile is a fine concept, and serves a niche market very well, but it seems a little odd that you can ride one of these without any kind of license. If it suddenly became legal to ride a 50cc motorbike with no license or helmet, you would see millions sold, but road death rates would go up accordingly.

If some of the mandatory car safety restrictions were loosened, good one-seater electric cars could be developed for low prices (a few thousand dollars). Vehicles with 3/4 wheels are safer than vehicles with 2. Top Gear fans will remember the Peel P50, a tiny gasoline-power car made in 1962 - something a bit bigger would sell like crazy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJfSS0ZXYdo

Re:Legal considerations

[Anonymous Coward]

For what it's worth, this is the definition of a bicycle under Australian road rules:

bicycle means a vehicle with 2 or more wheels that is built to be
propelled by human power through a belt, chain or gears (whether or
not it has an auxiliary motor), and:
  (a) includes a pedicab, penny-farthing and tricycle; but
  (b) does not include a wheelchair, wheeled recreational device,
wheeled toy, or any vehicle with an auxiliary motor capable
of generating a power output over 200 watts (whether or not
the motor is operating).

The 200W limit is what kills most power assisted bikes (not that it stops many people, they'll only get in trouble if they're being dickheads or end up in an accident).

Re:Legal considerations

[Anonymous Coward]

Even for a very fit driver, 50 km/h seems to be a high speed,

This is one of my personal concerns about bicycle riders. They pedal so hard that they can't look around - they are too busy. On a motorbike it's not a problem, your body is free to lean and look back. This vehicle at least helps with that problem because it is inherently stable.

Mirrors are the old and crappy fix; a wide-angle backup cam under the seat and an LCD on the bars is better. Adapt for velomobile, I'd say two 100-120deg. cameras (and two LCDs) for >180deg. coverage.

This vehicle is not very likely to fit into most bike lanes. And it is not suitable for bike paths that are not perfectly flat (with only 6" of clearance it got to be perfect.) I am not sure what major advantage would an avid bicycle rider have with this one if electric assist is not effective at speed. Most riders do OK at low speeds on their own.

Look at a motorcycle -- they can take imperfect roads at rather higher speeds with 6" clearance. And maybe it's not for "an avid bicycle rider", but to let the poor bloke who can go 20 miles at 10mph do 40 miles at 20mph? Yeah, I'm sure not gonna pay the early-adopter tax, but the concept's not near as broken as you seem to think.

Re:Legal considerations

[tftp]

Mirrors are the old and crappy fix;

Yes, they are pretty bad. I used to have a bicycle with a mirror, and I rarely could see anything in that mirror because it vibrated too much.

a wide-angle backup cam under the seat and an LCD on the bars is better.

You need to use an LCD that works at full sunlight and in pitch black. I think there are a few technologies that are promising, but so far what we have is inadequate. I have an LCD monitor in my car, and it is not fun to look at when it's bright outside - even though it has an excellent backlight. Oh, power-wise it has to be very efficient on a bike.

Look at a motorcycle -- they can take imperfect roads at rather higher speeds with 6" clearance.

I used to own a scooter with a pretty low clearance; it was only fit for city streets - and watch for those potholes! Racing motorbikes are designed for racetracks. A dirt bike will take you anywhere.

to let the poor bloke who can go 20 miles at 10mph do 40 miles at 20mph?

It remains to be seen if electric assist has any effect in this thing. TFA says that two vehicles were tested, one with electric motor and another without, and they were performing identically.

Think about it this way also. TFA provides calculations of the efficiency of the vehicle. 100W from the driver + 250W from the motor seem to be a great idea. But it all depends on the weight of the electric powertrain. A skinny rider on an unpowered bike will be far faster than the same skinny rider who carries the fiberglass shell, the battery and the motor in addition to the bike's parts. If the rider's weight is 300 lbs then perhaps the battery's weight is not that critical; but riders with those characteristics prefer Harleys :-)

Finally, TFA clearly spells it out: "The electric motor is intended to be used for acceleration only (and for climbing hills)." This is counter to the theory that a casual rider can use the motor instead of pedaling. The battery (288Wh) would be good for more than 2 hours, isn't it so? But for some reason this is not the mode that they tested. Perhaps this vehicle lacks the transmission (electric or mechanical) that would be required to handle the full range of torque? But whenever you are NOT using the electric assist you are hauling all that extra weight for naught. That would be a big loss in overall efficiency. Prius, for example, is using battery power whenever it is not charging the battery; Toyota's designers understood well that you must use the battery, otherwise you'd be better off losing it.

Re:Legal considerations

[sapphire wyvern]

Thanks! I'd mod you Informative if I hadn't already posted. :)

Re:Legal considerations

[sapphire wyvern]

It remains to be seen if electric assist has any effect in this thing. TFA says that two vehicles were tested, one with electric motor and another without, and they were performing identically.

Well, to be fair, the article says that the electric assist allowed a relatively unfit journalist to keep up with someone who is a velomobile enthusiast in an unpowered model (who presumably rides these things around a lot and is therefore pretty fit). I wouldn't say that was a negligible result.

Re:Legal considerations

[Rogerborg]

[cyclists] pedal so hard that they can't look around - they are too busy.

My motorcycle and I were once undertaken on a slippery wet roundabout by a furious pedalist who was absolutely determined not to lose momentum. Had I not been riding with due care and attention, I've have taken him out on the exit.

Dear bicyclists: road rules are there for your protection. Moralfaggotry does not protect you in the event of a collision.

Re:Legal considerations

[tftp]

the electric assist allowed a relatively unfit journalist to keep up

It didn't appear to me that the journalist is "relatively unfit" if he writes this:

I am a speed freak, so when I found myself on a nice, open stretch of road, the first thing I did was start the motor at full throttle and pedal like a madman at the same time. [...] However, my attempt to go any faster than 50 km/h (30 mph) left me frustrated -- the vehicle lacks the high gears needed for those speeds.

If at 30 mph he was wishing for a higher gear then I suppose he had more stamina in him than most unfit men that I ever met, including, of course, myself as a star exhibit of an unfit man :-)

By the way, the article mentions that the battery and the motor only weigh 5 kg. That is, as he says, a surprisingly low weight for 200+ watts, and I agree. Perhaps then what is missing in this contraption is a 500 Wh battery and a 500W motor, so that plain folks, who are not riders at all, can take this thing for a spin to the corner store and back - without ever touching the pedals because there are none. That would be a far better seller, IMO, than the pedaled version - an EV has a wider audience, as long as the price is right. (No, the Eur 8K is not right.)

Re:Legal considerations

[Daengbo]

50ml is actually a pretty common limit for unlicensed combustion-powered bikes. Electrics appear to be around 300-500W, but higher and lower limits exist.

Re:Legal considerations

[tp1024]

Don't forget that those vehicles are not bicycles. They have as much in common with bicycles as a brick has in common with an airplane. They are aerodynamically optimized to a degree that makes 50km/h a very realistic prospect for most people.

Re:Legal considerations

[Anonymous Coward]

The sentence before the one you quoted, he described himself as 'average' fitness, I.e. the bottom tier of the three categories of cyclist that he describes (average fitness, good fitness, top athletes)

Re:Legal considerations

[drinkypoo]

Even for a very fit driver, 50 km/h seems to be a high speed,

This is one of my personal concerns about bicycle riders. They pedal so hard that they can't look around - they are too busy. On a motorbike it's not a problem, your body is free to lean and look back. This vehicle at least helps with that problem because it is inherently stable.

And also because it's a human-electric hybrid.

it is not suitable for bike paths that are not perfectly flat (with only 6" of clearance it got to be perfect

No, the real issue is that with three wheels, you can't stand still on sharp camber where a bicycle would do fine. That means that if you meet a jog stroller on the path, and there's a hill to one side, someone will have trouble. A bicycle can handle stopping and standing on extreme camber.

this ridiculous price is only to harvest the early crop of rich fools

Early?

until the price drops to some realistic number, like $300

But that will never, ever happen, for a broad variety of reasons, most of which begin with L and end with iability.

Re:Legal considerations

[drinkypoo]

Yes, they are pretty bad. I used to have a bicycle with a mirror, and I rarely could see anything in that mirror because it vibrated too much.

The mirror goes on your helmet. This not only makes it seem larger, but it protects it from vibration the same way your head is protected from vibration, by your body.

Re:Legal considerations

[MartinSchou]

100W from the driver + 250W from the motor seem to be a great idea. But it all depends on the weight of the electric powertrain. A skinny rider on an unpowered bike will be far faster than the same skinny rider who carries the fiberglass shell, the battery and the motor in addition to the bike's parts

Since the motor is providing up to 2½ times as much power as the rider, your claim is only true, if the bike and all its stuff is 2½ times as heavy as the rider.

Since the eWAW described in the article weighs in at roughly 25 kg in total, your claim would be true for a 10 kg rider.

Personally I haven't seen a 10 kg bicycle rider who was more than three years old.

A skinny rider + the bike alone would be maybe 50 kg + 20 kg bike = 100W/70 kg = 1.43 W/kg compared to the electric version which would be 50 kg + 25 kg bike = 350W/75 kg = 4.7 W/kg or more than 3 times the power to weight ratio. Or to put it another way, in order for the power to weight ratio to match, the electric drive train would have to weigh a massive 175 kg. Since we're only talking a motor and a battery, I suspect that if you were to go with 175 kg worth of motor and battery, you could probably get it to hit 200 km/h and still have about 100 kg worth of batteries.

Actually, you can get this 200 HP, 40 kg electric motor. That leaves us 35 kg to improve the tyres (motorcycle tires spring to mind) in order to have 100 kg worth of batteries. At a specific power of 250 Wh/kg, we're now looking at 25 kWh worth of batteries.

At full throttle that's 10 minutes worth, but then again, 200 horse power and 250 kg of vehicle including the driver would probably scare the living crap out of most riders at full throttle.

Re:Legal considerations

[R3d M3rcury]

Moralfaggotry does not protect you in the event of a collision.

Silly boy! I'm riding a bicycle! That makes me inherently more moral than you, which means I'll end up in heaven whereas you'll be down there in hell breathing those horrible brimstone fumes as you spent your life creating exhaust fumes.

Besides, you're supposed to watch out for bicyclists! Don't you see the signs! Have you ever seen a sign saying, "Bicyclists: Watch for Cars"? Of course not! That's because bicyclists don't have to!

(The preceding was a joke. I've decided that I'd really better make it explicitly clear.)

Re:Legal considerations

[tehcyder]

Yes, they are pretty bad. I used to have a bicycle with a mirror, and I rarely could see anything in that mirror because it vibrated too much.

The mirror goes on your helmet. This not only makes it seem larger, but it protects it from vibration the same way your head is protected from vibration, by your body.

That is one of the funniest things I have read for days. Didn't anybody tell the poor bastard he was doing it wrong?

Re:Legal considerations

[Goat of Death]

My velomobile is the most visible vehicle on the road. Routinely at stop lights, when the light changes, I'll hear honking across the intersection as I begin to pedal through. This is often because the cars across the way in the front of the line are too busy looking at me to notice that light has changed.

The only places in which I'm concerned about height are parking lots where speeds there are slow anyway. A number of velos are equipped with horns. I know several velo riders who use air zounds which are quite loud.

Many sports cars are just as low or in a few cases lower than a velomobile.

Re:Legal considerations

[jesterpilot]

Mirrors are the old and crappy fix;

Yes, they are pretty bad. I used to have a bicycle with a mirror, and I rarely could see anything in that mirror because it vibrated too much.

Mirrors work very well on a velomobile. They are near your eye and hardly vibrate due to the short mount.

Sorry, but...

[PapayaSF]

There's absolutely zero chance that anything like this is going to be more than a rare oddity in the US. This is only suited to young, single, in-shape people, almost all male, who don't mind getting exercise on their way to work or a date, and never need a vehicle that holds more than a bag of groceries, much less another person (or two or three). In fact, is there even room for one bag of groceries? Oh, and they are all daredevilish enough to not be worried about stiff winds tipping them over or all the trucks and SUVs that loom over them. So we're talking about an infinitesimal sliver of the population.

It also needs to be locked down because any two guys could just carry one away, but it's too big for existing bike racks, and many standard car parking places don't have anything to lock to. I predict these will be as popular as the Sinclair C-5.

Re:Sorry, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am one such individual, and I've been eyeing velomobiles lustily for several months now. It would be nice vehicle for Burning Man and maybe some parts of Portland, but here in central Omaha, there are too many hills. Because I'm not going to invest in an e-assist that can't work above 20mph, have no idea how I'd license one of those if it did, can't pedal that much weight up a 35% grade, and don't want to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on one, I'm probably just going to go with one of Utah Trike's tadpole tricycles. It's 5 miles to my job, straight shot down 16th. I'll get the best gearing system I can, dress warmly, and keep my Sephia for any trip that's longer.

Re:Sorry, but...

[Rogerborg]

And like the C5 - and the Segway - its few devotees will continue to claim that the problems will be dealt with by re-designing entire cities in order to facilitate their particular mode of transport. Meanwhile - oh, hang on, the doorbell just rang. It's Alyson Hannigan, she's decided to finally accept one of those 200 indecent propositions that I send her every day!

Re:Sorry, but...

[drinkypoo]

Not only that, but the article is pure bullshit. Nothing requiring pedaling is as comfortable as a car. As well, I would experience claustrophobia almost immediately. Finally, the first time someone riding one of these is crushed by a lorry, I will be unable to avoid snickering.

Re:Sorry, but...

[blind biker]

and never need a vehicle that holds more than a bag of groceries,

These cycles do hold much more than "a bag of groceries". They're very practical, actually.

Re:Sorry, but...

[MartinSchou]

And like the C5 - and the Segway - its few devotees will continue to claim that the problems will be dealt with by re-designing entire cities in order to facilitate their particular mode of transport.

Which is why cities like Copenhagen doesn't see any kind of bicycle traffic at all, and the 35% of commutes that they claim are done by bicycle are all just part of a massive a conspiracy.

Re:Sorry, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

And like the C5 - and the Segway - its few devotees will continue to claim that the problems will be dealt with by re-designing entire cities in order to facilitate their particular mode of transport. Meanwhile - oh, hang on, the doorbell just rang. It's Alyson Hannigan, she's decided to finally accept one of those 200 indecent propositions that I send her every day!

20-30 years ago both Portland in the US, and Amsterdam in the Netherlands, decided to make bicycling and non-automotive forms of transportation a priority. The infrastructure of both cities now reflect this.

Since about the 1940s, most North American cities decided to make the automotive form of transportation a priority. The infrastructures of these cities now reflect this.

There is no reason why the latter decision cannot be revisited. It was a conscious decision to make it so, and it can become a conscious decision to make it not-so.

Yes, it will take and energy to make it happen, but it can happen. The decision simply has to be made.

Re:Sorry, but...

[ceoyoyo]

I'm pretty sure my hang glider won't fit on it, and while I'm in decent shape I don't think I'd want to pedal one of those 600 km in a Candian winter to go see my family at Christmas. So not replacing all car trips, for sure.

It does look like an interesting substitute for a moped or motor bike for the more fitness inclined. I'd be interested in it for commuting if they got the price down in the few thousand range.

Re:Sorry, but...

[Goat of Death]

Actually velomobiles have been gaining popularity year over year and more manufacturers have been arriving on the scene. The Quest, which is one of the oldest tried and true designs, has been upping production every year for a number of years now. They publish how many they build on their website: http://www.velomobiel.nl/orderboek/index.php#productie They also licensed the design to Blue Velo in Toronto who makes them for the North American market.

Velo manufacturers used to have waits of several months to over a year. Only in the past couple years have the waits on average gotten down to around 5 months or so. My particular velo took about 7 months to get to me from when I first started contacting the US dealer.

I agree, figuring out how to lock it is a hassle. But it's also about 90 pounds with gear that isn't easy to walk off with and where exactly would you fence it? A theif would be putting a big "I stole this" sign on himself if he ever took it out for a ride. That's assuming he even knew how to operate it, which while not hard, isn't something you just jump in, and ride away with.

Side winds are not a significant issue. Yes they can affect the velo, however it is a trike and not so prone to tipping over.

Re:Sorry, but...

[jesterpilot]

And like the C5 - and the Segway - its few devotees will continue to claim that the problems will be dealt with by re-designing entire cities in order to facilitate their particular mode of transport.

Actually, in the Netherlands and many other countries, cities are redesigned to accomodate more and faster cycling. See this new cycling highway recently built in the Netherlands. Guess what vehicles were used for the opening ceremony.

Come to London and check the speed.

[jotaeleemeese]

I take the bus regularly in London, most times in the upper floor of a double decker.

From there one can follow the progress of individual cyclists, and is undeniable that most of them move pretty much at the same speed as the motorized vehicles, even some runners can keep up with traffic speed for a while.

Most of the world is or will be urban, so fast vehicles will be completely redundant to the actual needs of urban dwellers.

Re:Come to London and check the speed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, most of the world will be like London? I think you have no idea how big the world is.

Re:Come to London and check the speed.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Most of the world is or will be urban"

Most of WHAT world? Not this one...

Re:Come to London and check the speed.

[MartinSchou]

even some runners can keep up with traffic speed for a while.

While the Top Gear marathon challenge was probably staged to a certain extent (the congestion charge fare bit in particular), it does give you a rather realistic view of just how slow cars actually move in city traffic.

Their Cross London Airport Race seemed somewhat staged as well (with James May getting lost as usual), but there considering that Richard Hammond beat the others while on a bicycle, that too tells you a lot about traffic speeds in city traffic.

Re:Come to London and check the speed.

[MightyYar]

Oh my goodness, it's clear from context that he means most people will be living in urban environments. So many pedants....

Forget runners and bikers, I've beat cross-town traffic in NYC just walking. Conversely, I've taken the cross-town bus and seen the same nanny pushing the same stroller for almost the entire trip.

Re:Come to London and check the speed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, most of the world will be like London? I think you have no idea how big the world is.

As of about 2006 full half of the world's population were living in "urban" areas. By 2030, that is expected to be 60%:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization

So generally speaking, the GP is correct in saying "the world is or will be urban".

Furthermore, a number of the larger urban areas probably have a higher population density than Greater London: New York, Bangalore, Mexico City, Jakarta, Seoul, Delhi, São Paulo, Istanbul, Moscow, Mumbai, Tokyo, Karachi, Bogotá, Tehran, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Dhaka.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_largest_municipalities_by_population

G. London has roughly 7.6M people, and the above have at least 7M, as well as a higher density.

So I would also say that the GP statement that "fast vehicles will be completely redundant" isn't far off the mark either.

Re:Come to London and check the speed.

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't buy one of these for urban use, I'd be happy to walk / cycle / take a bus. As the article states - many people are happy to cycle up to 5km and I would consider that acceptable.

The biggest issue for me would be trying to keep to a reasonable speed, without riding the gutter and yet still stay out of way of cars doing 40 - 60 mph (or more) on a single carriageway between towns. If any alternative mode of road based travel is going to work in mainstream use - that mode of travel needs to be easily capable of operating alongside cars on the roads for probably at least a decade. All of this is assuming that it is only a matter of time for people to buy into making a switch from cars and a decade would seem quite fast for such a monumental shift.

A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[tftp]

This vehicle combines the worst parts of bicycle experience with the worst parts of car experience. It only can be used to deliver your body from point A to point B - even though many, if not most, trips require carrying cargo (even as little as a laptop bag; but often groceries are also required.) This works only on absolutely flat land, and in good weather. In case of an accident your body will be neatly squashed by wheels of larger vehicles, making it a death trap. There are no creature comforts, such as a/c or radio or headlights, which makes it dangerous to drive at high temperatures (half of the year in half of the USA) or at night (other half of the year in another half of the USA.) Usability-wise, it's another Ginger (Segway,) only even less practical. Only well trained young men can ride the thing. Children cannot use it; older persons cannot use it; women, being statistically weaker, cannot use them. Even tired people, after a full day of honest work, may not need another exercise on their way home. Riders will arrive to their destinations soaked in sweat, stinking, dusty; their arms and legs will be shaking from exertion, and it will take some time for them to cool down and be ready to work at the office. All in all, this is yet another fringe vehicle for the same, well known fringe group that insists that public roads are their personal gym.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Your post show how misinformed you are:

This vehicle combines the worst parts of bicycle experience with the worst parts of car experience. It only can be used to deliver your body from point A to point B - even though many, if not most, trips require carrying cargo (even as little as a laptop bag; but often groceries are also required.)

See this video.

This works only on absolutely flat land, and in good weather.

See this video.

In case of an accident your body will be neatly squashed by wheels of larger vehicles, making it a death trap.

See this video and this video.

See this video and this video

Only well trained young men can ride the thing

See this video

As for the rest of your comments, you'll find plenty of videos and sites to prove you wrong. I can't be bothered to find them for you just right now.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[tftp]

Good collection of links! But many of these videos are outright scary. Note the windshield is covered in water - is there a wiper? Two crashes were shown; one is a minor bump of no consequence to any vehicle; another was a series of photos where the smaller vehicle was seriously damaged and overturned. Given tight quarters, the driver could be hurt even from that. Lack of crumple zones and small weight means that in a high speed collision the whole vehicle is accelerated to the speed of the other car in milliseconds, with enormous G forces. Most of the length of the car is occupied by your body, and your legs are only protected with a paper-thin decorative epoxy layer. A driver of a bus may not even notice your "car" down below, as he drives his huge vehicle all over you. A larger car would be better visible, and in case of a collision it would be only pushed aside - not driven over.

With regard to headlights, I cannot imagine having 2x100W headlights in such small vehicles - the battery alone would be prohibitive. What I saw in the video was more like 2x10W light bulbs, not really enough to see and be seen at night - except in a well-lit city.

With regard to age, that older guy is obviously in a better shape, physically, than I am. I know plenty of people with blood pressure problems and other ailments who are not advised to exert themselves. One needs to be healthy to do this thing; and you cannot take this vehicle for a casual 100 mile spin like I intend to do tomorrow, in a car, to visit a friend in another city.

Comments to some videos specifically mention that you get all sweaty even in cold weather. This is a dangerous combination!

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[AK Marc]

Most seemed to prove him right. I didn't look at all of them. But 2 of 2 I did look at proved him right. They are unsafe, slow, and expensive.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[Anonymous Coward]

With regard to headlights, I cannot imagine having 2x100W headlights in such small vehicles - the battery alone would be prohibitive. What I saw in the video was more like 2x10W light bulbs, not really enough to see and be seen at night - except in a well-lit city.

20W with modern LEDs is over 1500, possibly 2000 lumens; a single (non-HID) headlamp is typically about 1500 (varies by type). Since car headlamps have to light up rather farther out (for top legal speeds of 75mph vs 25mph), the notion that half as much light is "not really enough" makes me laugh.

I had 45W total of LED lighting on my last bike before some motherfucker stole it, and when a car passed me at night, I washed their headlights out. My current ride has only 25W, which is ample, but not spectacular; it's waiting for me to make a bracket to mount a 35W HID projector over the front fender.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[tftp]

Since car headlamps have to light up rather farther out (for top legal speeds of 75mph vs 25mph)

Bicycle riders going downhill need all the light they can get. There are places nearby that gather their toll of crashed riders every week. (Many crashes occur in daylight, though - the road is winding and the downslope is steep.)

You are right about higher efficiency of modern headlights. My car has 2 x 35W HID headlights, and your single 45W LED light could well be brighter than that. But that's still some serious power. Where on a bike do you get this much power from? Not from the rear wheel, I suppose? Your muscles produce only 100W over 1 hour, per TFA. Riders around here do use lights, but they are just 2-3W LED lights that are barely legal; they are powered from a battery.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[DNS-and-BIND]

The "arriving at your destination drenched in sweat" part is quite enough to disqualify this vehicle. I tried actually riding a bicycle for transportation and quickly discovered this. I note also that this vehicle discriminates against the differently-abled.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[Alioth]

You've obviously never even been moderately fit. If you're only moderately fit, even an hour on a bicycle won't leave your limbs shaking. That only happens when you're unfit.

Also women can ride bicycles very long distances at pretty impressive speeds. It happens all the time outside of the USA. Since this thing is supposed to reduce the effort of cycling, it should make it more accessable to anyone not super-fit.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't read the article at all did you? The point of the fairing was to reduce wind resistance and *provide storage space*. The point of the electric motor was *to get up hills*. The thing is specifically geared so the motor is most effective at getting off the line and up hills.

Next time, read at least some of the article.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[ion]

Next time, read at least some of the article.

And go see in in person. I have one, and I am fat. 110 kilo naked. I still have had room my laptop bag, my gymbag and some groceries. It is only in the most warm days of summer that I get sweatty when riding to work, probably because I dress lighter than other modes of transportation would. And no, I do not freeze either, the shell protects me from the wind, the cold and the rain. I ride in t-shirt well into October.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[aaarrrgggh]

This vehicle can be operated as all electric, but expecting 50-100W energy output from a 60-year old in average shape for 20-30 minutes isn't high exertion. I think that is around 150 calories per hour.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[Anonymous Coward]

You are right about higher efficiency of modern headlights. My car has 2 x 35W HID headlights, and your single 45W LED light could well be brighter than that.

Nah, I should have said "when a non-HID car passed me" -- I had less light total than HIDs, but pretty much the same intensity out to 100m. (Due to aiming my lights lower.) It only spanked the filament setups, which are most of the traffic around here.

But that's still some serious power. Where on a bike do you get this much power from? Not from the rear wheel, I suppose? Your muscles produce only 100W over 1 hour, per TFA. Riders around here do use lights, but they are just 2-3W LED lights that are barely legal; they are powered from a battery.

Li-ions. That rig was 5 lights, each of which comes with a 0.5lb 4-cell pack (7.4V, 4.4Ah), good for about 2.5 hours on high. I had 3 packs (+ some Y-cables) on my bike to run the 5 headlights + 3 taillights, and 3 wall-wart chargers on a powerstrip to plug it in when I got home.

But the article's about electric velomobiles, so for them (or e-bikes) you'd just run the lights off the traction battery, with a small reserve pack (or just a raised low-voltage cutoff for the motor) to give you light while pedaling home with a dead battery.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[TreeInMyCube]

It's a fascinating concept, but it is based on a flawed assumption. Any family of two or more people that needs to go to the same place, at the same time, cannot use these vehicles to replace a car. The quoted portion which says, "if all 300 million Americans replaced their cars with velomobilies" is a total fiction. Unless one engineers an extra seat, there's no way for children under the age of 8 or 9 to use these. They would lack the strength, or mental awareness to ride in traffic, or both. This would make a good supplemental vehicles for a certain class of trips for certain individuals, but will not have a significant impact on overall vehicle population. Check the latest US census data about how many people live in families with one or more children living at home.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a woman who manages to bike a good 15-16 miles of roundtrip commute with a heavy mountain bike for most of the year. I also use my bike to carry groceries, and the grocery store is a couple miles away. I don't really exercise in any other way. It's all still pretty easy if you stretch first.

You'd have to be impressively out of shape to not be able to bike at least a few miles in that thing.

Re:A great vehicle for a few who are interested

[Goat of Death]

But it could reduce your reliance on a car and allow you to make a lot of trips you would otherwise use a car for. In my case, my wife and I share a car. We both work and I bike commute. So most days I take a bike or trike, rainy days I take the velomobile. In addition many of the trips we take to the grocery or the local mall we do by two bikes rather than a car. When children come along we'll add trailers and then tag-alongs to the mix (which my velo will pull a trailer as well).

I think many families could remove one car from the equation by bike and/or velomobile commuting. The velomobile, being faster in general, and especially an e-assit one, greatly extends the range at which human powered commuting becomes possible.

"Ample space for luggage"

[khallow]

I keep seeing the author use the phrase "ample space for luggage" without once saying what that means. I doubt we'd agree on that phrase either. I think I routinely have more junk packed into my car than could fit in his velomobile even if we took everything out, including the driver and all internal machinery.

And I don't relish turning a day long trip of 750 miles (a particular trip which I do several times a year incidentally, hence that specific number) into a multiday expedition, with my body contributing most of the work. I think most of humanity has established that they prefer quicker travel times and more comfortable commutes over better fuel economy.

Widespread adoption of velomobiles (as the author advocates at one point) or similar vehicles incapable of long trips at fast speeds seems a big step backwards in human progress.

Re:"Ample space for luggage"

[Anonymous Coward]

And I don't relish turning a day long trip of 750 miles (a particular trip which I do several times a year incidentally, hence that specific number) into a multiday expedition, with my body contributing most of the work. I think most of humanity has established that they prefer quicker travel times and more comfortable commutes over better fuel economy.

Please don't put so much effort on being stupid. The velomobile isn't meant for highways, it can't fly and neither can it cure cancer. They could be sued weren't for the fact they never promised it'd do any of these things.

Re:"Ample space for luggage"

[roc97007]

> And I don't relish turning a day long trip of 750 miles (a particular trip which I do several times a year incidentally, hence that specific number) into a multiday expedition, with my body contributing most of the work. I think most of humanity has established that they prefer quicker travel times and more comfortable commutes over better fuel economy.

Look on the bright side. The more people using these things, the more gas for the rest of us.

Re:"Ample space for luggage"

[Anonymous Coward]

I keep seeing the author use the phrase "ample space for luggage" without once saying what that means. I doubt we'd agree on that phrase either. I think I routinely have more junk packed into my car than could fit in his velomobile even if we took everything out, including the driver and all internal machinery.

You'll pardon the rest of us for not accommodating your pack-rat nature. People sometimes make an effort not to be like that.

Widespread adoption of velomobiles (as the author advocates at one point) or similar vehicles incapable of long trips at fast speeds seems a big step backwards in human progress.

So tell me, where were you when people were laughing at those fancy motor carriages that got caught in the mud, had to be refuel at inconvenient times and couldn't even be used to make sausage?

Me, I would love to be able to travel on mass transit for long distances rather than drive myself round on the highway. And I would sincerely love being able to reach a convineint store within walking distance.

Re:"Ample space for luggage"

[Anonymous Coward]

the motor carriages suck, we should remove the motor, go back to tiny thin wheels, and make it sausage shape

Re:"Ample space for luggage"

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to have read his post without correlating what he was talking about back to the quote, thus missing the whole point. I believe his 750 mile statement is poking holes in this statement.

"so much so that it is able to replace most, if not all, automobile trips"

The same line caught my attention too. It honestly couldn't replace a single trip for me, but I assume I am outside the norm. I have to travel an hour down the highway (after driving 6 miles down an extremely bumpy dirt road) just to get to a major grocery store, and then carry 2 weeks worth back with me. Not something that this is ever going to do without spoiling the milk (I would estimate ~2.5 hours each way in this "toy").

Re:"Ample space for luggage"

[khallow]

So tell me, where were you when people were laughing at those fancy motor carriages that got caught in the mud, had to be refuel at inconvenient times and couldn't even be used to make sausage?

Couldn't you be bothered to make this argument when it's an actual step forward? Why don't you tell us primitives how superior it is to use smoke signals instead of these primitive "computers" and "phones" to communicate? Or stone tools instead of woefully inadequate power tools?

Wow - just wow!

[Andy Prough]

I want one! I work from home - so if there's room for groceries, this would handle 80% of my driving, and give me a workout while I'm at it.

Re:Wow - just wow!

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

A velomobile is a bicycle.

Looks like a Sinclair C5

[Anonymous Coward]

The velomobiles look a lot like the Sinclair C5 electric vehicle, which put Sir Clive Sinclair's company out of business. People hated the C5 because it was impractical, expensive, dangerous, and because it looked silly.

They appear to be considerably more dangerous than a normal bicycle - they surely lack maneuverability, handy for avoiding accidents, and they operate much nearer the ground, making them invisible to vehicles with a high ride height.

Re:Looks like a Sinclair C5

[chilvence]

The problem with the c5, is that it does look genuinely ugly. It looks like you are riding around in an over-sized ladies shoe. Shallow a reason it may be, no one is going to buy anything in mass numbers if it happens to make you look like a girly man. Combine that with the top speed of 15 mph and you have a recipe for complete failure that Sir Clive should have really not been stupid enough to not see.

Velomobiles on the other hand, thanks to their racing pedigree, have a bit more prestige and can actually look quite cool, at least in my opinion. It isn't all about practicality, the marketing of things like this is all in the sport. People say that they prefer cars because they are more practical, well they often seem very practical to me for keeping you comfortable in traffic jams whenever I am going past them! It is only because of car chases on tv, formula 1, nascar, rally races, and good old fashioned unattainable sports car porn like ferraris lamborghinis and porsches that cars have such an iron grip on peoples minds.

And then there is always the terrorism aspect of "what do you do when you are hit by a truck", as if it isn't the truck drivers responsibility to, you know, not frigging murder you. Make it an automatic life sentence to run over anyone on a bicycle and see how many accidents you get then!

Re:Looks like a Sinclair C5

[jesterpilot]

Comparing a velomobile with a Sinclair C5 is like comparing double espresso with herbal tea.

Wind Turbines?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good god, I hope you don't mean industrial scale mega turbines? So we can continue to have our power centralized and out of our own control? Rooftop solar is the only sane solution.

Re:Wind Turbines?

[The Master Control P]

"Out of our control?"

If the situation in your nation has degenerated to the point that the electric grid is used as a weapon of coercion, some solar tiles on your roof aren't going to fix anything. Luckily, no part of the developed world is like that, or for that matter even the developing world to any real extent.

Yeah... No thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't wanna get hit in one of those... It's not a bicycle and not on the path... its in the road and you're gonna die because eventually your luck runs out.

Velomobiles are fast without a motor

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

These bikes can easily cruise at 30 mph on the flat on muscle power alone for extended periods of time.

See this video or this one for instance,

Re:Velomobiles are fast without a motor

[Rogerborg]

We have different definitions of "easily". It's an interesting video, but it shows is being used under absolutely ideal conditions: flat, few junctions (and I didn't see any indicators or hand signals), light and amazingly polite traffic, few stop-starts.

Note at 9:00 a Honda CBF125 disappearing into the distance, getting in excess of 100mpg as it does so, and not riding in the Door Zone. With lights, indicators, better brakes, better visibility, more ability to filter through traffic (without pavement hopping like at 15:25), and the rider won't arrive at his destination sweating like a politician being forced to give a yes/no answer. Oh, and it costs less than the recumbant.

Two words...

[roc97007]

osteo arthritis

Re:Two words...

[ThatsMyNick]

That is a plus point. It reduces Osteoarthritis.

Re:Two words...

[Anonymous Coward]

Another two words: myocardial infarction.
Which you are much less likely to get with routine aerobic exercises.

Re:Two words...

[roc97007]

Another two words: myocardial infarction.
Which you are much less likely to get with routine aerobic exercises.

I agree. I get regular aerobic exercise. [1] It doesn't happen to involve riding a bicycle. I gave that up with regret, (my Cannondale is still in the garage, was serviced recently, and every once in awhile I try to ride it) but one has to make concessions for what one's body can do. The point was, the vision of everyone riding high tech bicycles to work is probably unrealistic. It seems cool and green and healthy when you're young and your body is uninjured, but given time and road wear and your views might change.

[1] As it happens, two weeks from now will be my third black belt test. The style I'm currently studying requires upper body strength and speed but acrobatics, which I can't do anymore, are kept to a minimum. Even then, I have to modify some techniques for what my knees allow me to do.

Re:Two words...

[roc97007]

That is a plus point. It reduces Osteoarthritis.

Hmm. That's what the insurance company said, [1] but I've had two doctors say that's pretty much nonsense. Exercise, if you can stand it, does keep the muscles and tendons in shape, which tends to hold things together better, but does not mitigate the fact that your joints are essentially grinding together bone on bone. There's apparently nothing practical that will regrow the missing cartilage, and short of knee replacement, treatment generally consist of reducing the pain, not reducing the damage.

Mind you, I still walk the dog nightly, even in the rain, but i wear leg braces that (incidentally) I had to pay for out of pocket.

Just pointing out that the vision of everyone happily bicycling to work may not be realistic.

[1] It seems clear that the motivation is the expense of a stationary bicycle vs knee replacement. Welcome to universal healthcare.

I think I saw that in Austin Powers...

[Rostis]

Johnson:Colonel, you better take a look at this radar.
Colonel: What is it, son?
Johnson: I don't know, sir, but it looks like a giant--
Jet Pilot: Dick!
Dick: Yeah?
Pilot: Take a look outta starboard.
Dick: Oh, my God! It looks like a huge--
Bird-Watching Woman: Pecker!
Bird-Watching Man: Oh, where?
Bird-Watching Woman: Wait! that's not a woodpecker. It looks like someone's--
Army Sergeant: PRIVATES! We have reports of an unidentified flying object! It is a long, smooth shaft, complete with--
Umpire: 2 balls! What is that? That looks just like an enormous--
Teacher: Wang! Pay attention!
Wang: I was distracted by that enormous flying--
Musician: Willie.
Willie: Yeah?
Musician: What's that?
Willie: Well, it looks like a giant--
Colonel: Johnson!
Johnson: Yes, sir!
Colonel: Get on the horn to British Intelligence and let them know about this!

Right

[fustakrakich]

Let's see people use these things in Phoenix, Arizona, in the summertime.

Re:Right

[cvtan]

Or in upstate NY in the winter. Plus even if my wife could get in one of these she couldn't get out of it. Plus you would need a motorcycle license for a 3-wheeler. Plus electric bikes have restrictions state by state...

These are so damn cool

[Anonymous Coward]

These are so damn cool, I would love to drive one, if I could avoid getting squished by SuV's and 4x4 pickups with massive tires twice as big as me.

I would so consider this...

[pongo000]

...if air conditioning was an option. Seriously. I couldn't imagine being couped up in one of these things on a 100F day. Or pedaling one to work on a muggy 80F morning. That's the main reason I don't ride a bike to work (a couple miles away): Summer mornings are nasty hot, and I simply can't show up to work dripping in sweat as there is no shower.

Give them some climate control, then you might see more adoption.

Re:I would so consider this...

[Rogerborg]

Bingo. And there is a shower at my workplace. One shower. For, what, 100 people? How many of us can commute by bicycle without making the place smell like a a Turkish flophouse?

Pedalling is a great means of transport for filthy hippies. Literally.

Re:I would so consider this...

[PolygamousRanchKid]

How many of us can commute by bicycle without making the place smell like a a Turkish flophouse?

You call it "Turkish flophouse" . . . I call it, "home" . . .

I do a train and Brompton http://www.brompton.co.uk/ combo to work, and have no sweat problems. Ten minutes train, twenty minutes bike, each way. I am physically fit and ride at a relaxed speed, so I never break out in a sweat. Hmmm . . . maybe I am physically fit, because I ride a bike. No, that can't be, people are fat because of large drink sizes, chemicals in soda cans, toys in Happy Meals, and other things beyond their control.

Pedalling is a great means of transport for filthy hippies. Literally.

So what is the transport for a nation of Honey Boo Boo families . . . ?

Actually, you've stated the problem with bicycling as a means of transportation in the US right there. It's psychological. Bikes are for little kids and exotic sport freaks. When you are old enough to drive, you should be driving a car, or there is something wrong with you. Also, cars are wealth to be flaunted to impress others. No one is very impressed by a bicycle, no matter what the cost.

So until the attitude about bikes in the US changes, no spiffy technology is going to get folks on bikes.

Re:I would so consider this...

[MightyYar]

So until the attitude about bikes in the US changes, no spiffy technology is going to get folks on bikes.

I would love to bike to work. I work 10 miles away, and I have arranged our living situation such that my kids are a walk away from school. I'm under 40, so I should be fit enough to pedal 20 miles each day.

The problem is safety. I have no way to get into work safely on a bicycle. One of my biking enthusiast friends guided me on a route that he considers safe, but I must say that it terrified me. At one point, the road was so narrow that cars could not pass a bicycle safely and so he showed me his strategy - take up the whole lane. Now, most drivers simply got pissed off and honked. But one decided to overtake us on a blind curve. If another car came around the curve, I have no doubt that one of the two cars would have swerved into us. And I can't even blame the drivers who were frustrated (not that I condone the honking or overtaking), since we were doing around 15 or less on a 35 MPH road. It's true that people should leave a bit earlier for work so that they aren't running late, but planning for your trip time to double is usually not in people's budget.

Bike lanes are also a total joke. They are painted along the edge of the road, so you get nailed when people open car doors, you have careless people using them as right turn lanes - especially when there is legal turn on red, and buses share the space with you - and those drivers are sometimes more aggressive than the regular traffic.

Re:I would so consider this...

[Rennt]

Taking the lane when it gets narrow is the safest way to deal with that situation, it's taught by riding instructors everywhere and is totally legal. In fact, taking the lane is just the safest policy all round - even safer than using bike lanes (which are there to increase rider participation rather than safety).

Honestly, you just need to sack up. Driving a car in traffic is pretty intimidating too until you get used to it, and you don't notice the haters after you get used to the idea that you are riding where you are supposed to be riding.

Re:I would so consider this...

[MightyYar]

"Sacking up" won't save me when someone comes around the blind curve. I agree that taking up the whole lane is the best course in a bad situation - but even better is to avoid the situation altogether. Same reason I don't ride a motorcycle.

80 times more efficient, maybe. But...

[multicoregeneral]

It really does look like they would be a piece of cake to steal. I mean, the biggest obstacle to stealing a regular car is its size. Plain and simple. There's no possible way you can lift one up, and put it in the back of your pickup. You actually have to put work into rewiring it, or hacking it in some way. These things... you would need some kind of embedded gps system or similar deterrent to keep them from being stolen. Hell of an opportunity for guys who do that kind of coding.

Re:80 times more efficient, maybe. But...

[drinkypoo]

It really does look like they would be a piece of cake to steal. I mean, the biggest obstacle to stealing a regular car is its size. Plain and simple. There's no possible way you can lift one up, and put it in the back of your pickup.

I guess you've never seen a car hauler with a winch. You can use rolling jacks to slide the car into the street, then winch it into the car hauler, and drive away with no one the wiser. Or on a hill, you can park a flatbed downhill from the vehicle, and winch it that way.

Re:80 times more efficient, maybe. But...

[MightyYar]

I'm sure you'd agree that your average thief might find it easier to procure a pickup than a car hauler...

Re:80 times more efficient, maybe. But...

[drinkypoo]

I'm sure you'd agree that your average thief might find it easier to procure a pickup than a car hauler...

I don't know. Professional car theft is endemic in major cities. My Camaro was definitely stolen by professionals; it was found completely stripped. Well, the body was found.

Re:80 times more efficient, maybe. But...

[MightyYar]

It was probably stolen by kids and brought to a professional. They steal the car and then stick it in a parking lot to cool off (in case it has LoJack). Then they bring it to a hack shop. While flat-bed thefts do happen, most cars are hotwired.

Restrictive laws on e-bikes don't help

[Anonymous Coward]

Laws need to change in some countries to encourage people into these. Australia has one of the most restrictive policies (200 watt max) and not a snowball's chance in hell of seeing sense in this area any time.

Re:Restrictive laws on e-bikes don't help

[MightyYar]

Shouldn't 200 watts be plenty? IIRC, a human being can only put out 100 watts average and less than 300 watts peak - so 200 extra watts roughly triples the average output of a human-powered bicycle and significantly boosts the peak output.

What happened to electric motor in hub?

[Jonah Hex]

I can recall some exciting work which involved placing an electric motor in each wheel hub and returning energy from braking, and having a small diesel engine running at a constant and tuned RPM topping off the system. Why not do this for a small compact car instead of messing with what would be a soap bubble compared to what much of the world deals with on it's roads. No way one of those would survive even the local roads around Detroit (and elsewhere of course), and highways are a necessary evil that these would never be allowed on. - HEX

Re:What happened to electric motor in hub?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what the hybrids do. They are not efficient enough, when compared to these though.

Power required

[Anonymous Coward]

And the power required to overcome said drag force increases at the cube of the velocity.

History repeats itself

[Chrisq]

Sir Clive Sinclair said he had an extremely efficient electric vehicle. It also turned out to be too slow for traffic, dangerous, and uncomfortable,, and the company was put into receivership in 1985.

uneven playing field?

[gadget junkie]

I do wonder how a car built to the same downgraded specs would cost. I always come away with the impression that all these contraptions, driven by a pint-size diesel engine, would do 200 km/litre, cost half the price of the electric version, and on a total life accounting probably be as environmentally friendly not to notice the difference. And remember, a well thought out diesel engine is good for 300.000 km, my car has 130.000, and a cousin of mine's is ticking after 500.000.

As always, tough, it's apples and oranges: a combustion engine driven contraption like this

a. would never get any authorization for the public sale,
b. "we want you to get Euro NCAP certification",
c. would be shunned as a curiosity without a future.

I never, ever saw an "apples to apples" comparison, or serious feasibility study. For example, here in Italy, a local regulation practically prohibits linking your garage electrical system to your house in a condo: what do I do if I want an electric car? Either this regulation is a piece of crap, which I suspect, or the govvies think that I should not keep a refrigerator in a garage eventually subject to flooding, but that I can keep expensive rare earth batteries with nary a problem. Chemistry 101 , anyone?

bike vs auto

[Invalidator]

I live in the Netherlands ("the most bicycle-friendly country in the western world") and there is a major flaw in the article: it is that the only two means of transport compared are bike and auto. We also have here very extensive train and bus systems. I used to work for a small IT company about 70km from my home. My employer offered me an auto or a train pass. At the time, I selected the auto. However, since I had to drive to and from work during the rush hours, I spent between 3 and six hours per day sitting in the auto. Had I chosen the train, the trip would have taken a bit over two hours per day.

Transport is a bit like a tool: you choose the most efficient tool for the job. Yes, cost is also a factor, nevertheless, you wouldn't turn a screw with a hammer.

Differently Abled????

[Anonymous Coward]

Differently Abled? Like how? Somebody who can play the piano well? Or walk a circus high-wire?

Because if you mean people who can't walk or have physical impairments, the word you're looking for is HANDICAPPED. IMPAIRED is another good word.

I work with a guy in a wheel chair. He doesn't have any different abilities. He has less. He is disabled.

If you imagine this word to be negative, that definition exists within your mind.

Hub motors have poor unsprung weight

[Kupfernigk]

Mitsubishi abandoned hub motors for its miev precisely because they make the unsprung weight too high. The results is poor handling as the wheels bounce around. It is better to go down the Toyota route with a hybrid design that uses two electric motors to provide the variable gearing (there are explanations on the Web). The Yaris hybrid already achieves 79g/km for carbon dioxide emissions using an optimised gasoline engine, and a Diesel variant wouldn't be worth the additional build, servicing and repair cost.

Re:Hub motors have poor unsprung weight

[drinkypoo]

Diesels generally require less service, though they do often have higher parts costs. These days though gasoline engines are going to direct-injection, so they have both a high-pressure fuel injection system and a spark system. Subaru in particular has a lightweight diesel engine because they are using opposed pistons, which would be an ideal genset motor if produced in a two-cylinder configuration. It would sound ghastly but there wouldn't be any pulsation feel from it if it were only running a generator.

Hub motors do suck, though. They only make sense in city-only vehicles which top out at about 35 mph. They're fine there, though, and they do eliminate the drivetrain.

A common sight here in the Netherlands

[Anonymous Coward]

However, it's not suitable for hilly areas. It's domain are flats. Like here in NL.

Road space

[Tim Ward]

Only suited, it seems to me, for use in large numbers if you've got more land to waste than you know what to do with (which is the case in some parts of the world but not others).

In constrained city streets there is neither the road space nor the parking space for vehicles like this. OK so it might be a modest improvement if motorists started using them, but it would be a pretty catastrophic backwards step if existing cyclists started using them in any numbers.

math problems.

[rew]

without mentioning it, the author of the article assumes that you will completely drain the battery on every commute, for both the velomobile, and the electric car. With that completely rediculous assumption, he comes to the figure of 25% of the windturbines.

Stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

We do not need a new ridiculous, uncomfortable and impractical type of vehicle.

The pinnacle of transportation is already achieved in the form of a four-wheeled box with seats for five and storage space for their bags.

The flaw with the current design is that it burns fossile fuel in a big metal machine.

Not a word

[Anonymous Coward]

> A quarter of the *existent*

Not a word.

Like when you drive down a long spiral ramp

[Hognoxious]

With me it's "horde" and "hoard". I'm so used to seeing mistakes that the right way is starting to look wrong.

Re:Like when you drive down a long spiral ramp

[Will.Woodhull]

Some languages have prescriptive grammars: you do it this way because that's the rule. Latin and ancient greek are that way, mostly because they are dead languages that can no longer change.

English has a descriptive grammar: you do it this way because that's the way it is done. That is one of the reasons it has emerged as the global language of the Internet, and one of the very few languages that sees more use among non-native speakers than among those who were raised with it.

The thing about descriptive grammars is that the way it is done changes over time. The model for correct usage is a bell shaped curve where there are always new ways of saying things that are gaining acceptance and ways that are becoming increasingly archaic and losing acceptance. It is a fluid grammar. Almost a creole.

Attaching this to parent post solely because of p.p.'s signature line.

Re:Like when you drive down a long spiral ramp

[Maritz]

While that's true, the innate tendency of languages over time is to shorten (drop syllables) while still staying unambiguous. Some changes add ambiguity or cause us to lose a good descriptor (the word 'disinterested' is rarely used as it used to be now, which is a shame as there isn't a good equivalent in use) - those changes are demonstrably bad and even though they happen we should try to reduce them.

Re:Like when you drive down a long spiral ramp

[Hognoxious]

It's that kind of attitude that led to the rise of abominations like ebonics.

I also fail to see how any of what you said makes a pile of treasure equal to a bunch of hairy-arsed horsemen.

Re:Like when you drive down a long spiral ramp

[Will.Woodhull]

Perhaps using Latin badly looks foolish; I could not say. I do not know enough Latin to judge the quality of its usage.

But I can say that watching someone tumble off their unicycle of language snobbery does not look foolish at all. It raises mixed emotions of revulsion and antipathy. With all due respect to your language skills, reading parent post was a horrible experience.

Not in this country.

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess practicality isn't a consideration when you are a true believer.

A and and [Re:one problem]

[Geoffrey.landis]

I have an two-seat enclosed

Does no one know how to use a and and anymore?

I will hypothesize that the poster originally wrote "I have an enclosed..." and then edited it to add "two-seat" but failed to adjust the article.

By the way, the conjunction "and" does not ever, in English, substitute for the article "a". Don't you mean "Does no one know how to use a and an anymore?"

Re:A and and [Re:one problem]

[siddesu]

And you'd be exactly right. I added the two-seater part afterwards, and did not proof-read. I blame the small phone screen :)

Legal issues

[cvtan]

"According to New York State and municipal legislation, electric bikes are 100 percent illegal to ride. The good news for e-bike proponents? The laws regarding the bikes are so contradictory and confusing that you’d be hard-pressed to find a police officer who would give you a ticket."
http://observer.com/2012/08/hell-on-wheels-environmentally-friendly-electric-bikes-poses-city-menace-or-do-they/

Sharing the road

[Jack Greenbaum]

Obviously no one here has ever ridden a recumbent bicycle in traffic. If you had, you'd see how rediculous it is to even think of taking one of these on pavement shared with cars. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY INVISIBLE TO CARS in a vehicle this low. And because of the enclosure you have no peripheral vision so you cannot look out for other vehicles -- even other velomobiles. I didn't see one "safety flag" in any of the pictures, which tells me that none of these vehicles are used by anyone who cares for their life, or they are just toys for a weekend cruise. As other posters have said, these are only practical with a different road system, and I argue a different bike path system. How would you handle passing a group of 15mph standard bicyclists in your vision impared wide wheelbase trike wheeled monster? You wouldn't, it wouldn't be safe on bike paths of today for you or the other riders.

Re:Sharing the road

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed, and I cringe at trying to get in/out of one of those puppies. But they're hardly design traits that have to remain that way.

The EV we built for a solar race in grad school lacked a lot of the desired/expected features of a car, scarcely fit the shortest person on the team, and leaked horribly in rain (no worries: we drilled holes in the floor to let water drain back out).

As a prototype, some major flaws are fine. Tight budget/cost wins over those features. Visibility and sightlines can be improved. Egress and height can be improved.

Incidentally, I live in Idaho, in a city of 75,000 people with a disproportionate number of engineers (several hundred). I see a recumbent bike on the roads roughly once a month, and I don't go out much. I've seen 4 for sale at yard sales or the likes. Almost all have a 7-foot 'glass mast and orange flag to help visibility. I'd estimate there are probably dozens of recumbent bikes in active use here and a couple dozen segways. I've never heard of an accident involving a recumbent bike; their slowness and a bit of visibility improvement, together with weather sheltering, could make this a viable system.

Re:Sharing the road

[Goat of Death]

If you ever ride in one, perhaps then you'll learn you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. Vision in my velo is not limited. It is a head out design and I have full awareness of traffic around me. In fact I have fuller awareness than in my car because I can hear traffic as well as see it approaching.

You are very visible to cars. Velomobiles are uncommon and very well noticed. I am more likely to cause an accident I'm not involved in, from people slowing down to check me out, than I am to actually be involved in one.

The way you handle a group of bikes traveling at 15mph in a velo is to pass them just like you would in a car.

Many people who use velomobiles, like myself, do so for daily commutes. I have been riding trikes and bikes on roads with and without bike lanes for seven years now. The only accident I ever had with a car happened when he pulled into a crosswalk for which I had the walk sign. I've yet to have a collision while traveling on the road with cars.

Re:Sharing the road

[Jack Greenbaum]

You are a braver rider than I. The first day I had my SWB recumbent I pulled up to a red light next to a pickup. There was no way the driver could have seen me below his right bumper, and a trike is lower. If the driver had decided to turn right, I would have been crushed. I got a flag the next day. But now I've given up on the recumbent for commuting in my small town -- I just don't feel as safe as I do on the more nimble and visible upright. Perhaps a trike, being statically stable, would provide more confidence. And perhaps the body of a velomobile would stand out more. But you are still very low down.

Re:Sharing the road

[jesterpilot]

I think it is you who never rode a recumbent in traffic. I use recumbents for my daily commute and long trips for ten years now. Even lowracers in a busy city. Since a year i ride a velomobile (a real one, without engine). It is less dangerous than riding a traditional bicycle in traffic. Of course one should never count on being seen, but the main problem with visibility is 'rubber necking'. Drivers don't see anything else but your velomobile. Luckily, I never heard one crash into something until now. *knock knock*.

Only one problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

They look like penises.

They don't fit

[Anonymous Coward]

As they have to share the road with other vehicles, they don't fit in. They are not cycles that can weave through traffic or ride over cycle track, and they are not fast enough to keep up with other traffic, and they are harder to see when you glance sideways when changing lanes. Are they the Linux of the traffic world? A product that a group of enthusiasts want but doesn't fit in, at the moment.

I like the idea and I have built several electric vehicles over time but if it doesn't fit in with the rest of the traffic, then they are more useless and dangerous than mobility scooters.

As someone who loves bikes ...

[Anonymous Coward]

This thing is a turkey. The advantages of a bicycle, particularly in flat urban areas are: they're cheap, they're lightweight, they are better than walking, they can go on sidewalks if need be for safety (illegal but who cares?). If a cheap steel frame bike gets stolen, well its only $300 or so. BUT ... biking in the dark is not fun. Cars can't see you. You get hot and sweaty and need shower and changing facilities. You can't carry (much) on your back or in/on a basket/rack. Biking requires a basic level of fitness. And biking in the rain is miserable, in the snow a non-starter.

In places where it rains, let alone SNOWS even a mountain bike is a non-starter. This thing? Even worse. Now try and load a sick kid, or elderly parent, or dog/cat, or several days worth of groceries, or any furniture, or other large item.

People LIKE big vehicles because they allow you to escape the rain, the snow, the heat, and load your family in them. Bicycling is fun, exciting, marvelous. But for most people it is not practical, there's no accident that most places trade bikes for motorcycles (greater range, more transport ability), and then cars for motorcycles. Being out of the weather is a godsend, particularly after age 25.

parking

[Khashishi]

I want one, but parking and security seems like a real problem. The problem with the price is that there's a risk of having it stolen or destroyed.

Nobody here understands

[evilviper]

The comments here are so terribly uninformed.

Yes, velomobiles suck... until they're motorized. Then they can get higher speeds and longer distances than EVs, at much lower prices. And no, they don't have to be lacking in cargo space... they currently ARE because the current crop is designed for human-powered racing, not general purpose use. There's no reason you can't have a 4-seater that goes 70MPH for 300+ miles, at a fraction the cost of a Nissan Leaf or Tesla.

And whatever you happen to think about that, doesn't matter. Don't like it? Too bad! Cars ARE GETTING LIGHTER, and will continue to do so. Electric Velomobiles are the logical extreme of consumer cars, just as motorized bicycles are the logical extreme of motorcycles. Consumer products will end up somewhere in-between, as gas prices go up, and battery tech remains expensive. Lowering the weight of vehichles is the quickest, easiest, and cheapest fix.

Many current automobiles would have been unthinkable in the 60s, yet they're on the roads, today. If gas prices shot through the roof, due to natural disaster or war, I'd be the first one out in my garage welding two mountain-bikes together, fabricating a fiberglass frame, and hooking it up to a starter motor and car batteries, or a lawn-mower/dirt-bike engine, rather than be unable to reasonably travel.

You don't have to go buy a velomobile, but you should get ready for a future where cars look more and more like them, due to physical realities and economics of expensive oil.

wind

[Anonymous Coward]

If they work like motorcycles with full fairings (no reason why they wouldn't) so long as the center of pressure is below the center of mass (oversimplifying here *) a side wind will cause the vehicle to lean into the wind. They steer by camber thrust, so that lean causes a thrust against the side wind. This is something a designer can work with to get a somewhat 'wind neutral' vehicle.