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Wiki Weapon Project Test-Fires a (Partly) 3D-Printed Rifle

MrSeb writes "In its continuing mission to build a 'Wiki Weapon,' Defense Distributed has 3D printed the lower receiver of an AR-15 and tested it to failure. The printed part only survives the firing of six shots, but for a first attempt that's quite impressive. And hey, it's a plastic gun. Slashdot first covered 3D-printed guns back in July. The Defense Distributed group sprung up soon after, with the purpose of creating an open-source gun — a Wiki Weapon — that can be downloaded from the internet and printed out. The Defense Distributed manifesto mainly quotes a bunch of historical figures who supported the right to bear arms. DefDist (its nickname) is seeking a gun manufacturing license from the ATF, but so far the feds haven't responded. Unperturbed, DefDist started down the road by renting an advanced 3D printing machine from Stratasys — but when the company found out what its machine was being used for, it was repossessed. DefDist has now obtained a 3D printer from Objet, which seemingly has a more libertarian mindset. The group then downloaded HaveBlue's original AR-15 lower receiver from Thingiverse, printed it out on the Objet printer using ABS-like Digital Material, screwed it into an AR-57 upper receiver, loaded up some FN 5.7x28mm ammo, and headed to the range. The DefDist team will now make various modifications to HaveBlue's design, such as making it more rugged and improving the trigger guard, and then upload the new design to Thingiverse." Sensible ammo choice; 5.7x28mm produces less recoil than the AR-15's conventional 5.56mm. I wonder how many of the upper's components, too, can one day be readily replaced with home-printable parts — for AR-15 style rifles, the upper assembly is where the gun's barrel lives, while the lower assembly (the part printed and tested here) is the legally controlled part of the firearm.

289 comments

  1. Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Informative

    And hey, it's a plastic gun.

    No, it's not. It's not even close to that. It's a plastic lower receiver with the rest of the gun being not plastic.

    As someone who's taken gun safety, I'm shocked he put himself at risk to test this. Making a shooting bench is fairly trivial. Automating a trigger pulling mechanism is a little more difficult but would require very basic knowledge. I'm surprised someone with access to a 3D printer would be stupid enough to pull a plastic lower receiver up to his face, put his hand on it and pull the trigger until it failed. In gun safety they show you what even an obstructed barrel can result in when firing a gun. That action mechanism would basically become shrapnel for your right hand, left forearm and face.

    If these guys want to be taken seriously, they probably should 3D print something that will prevent them from winning a Darwin award.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In gun safety they show you what even an obstructed barrel can result in when firing a gun.

      Yes, but I'm having a harder time imagining what a defect in the lower receiver would cause that would be equivalent to firing a bullet into an obstructed barrel.

      That's the car equivalent of 3D printing a new hood and then saying man that's crazy risky -- just look at the damage that can happen when the brakes fail.

    2. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously? What's the worst that's going to happen from a lower receiver breaking? It doesn't even approach the situation, in terms of danger, caused by a squib.

      As someone who's been shooting, dismantling and repairing firearms for over 20 years, I'm inclined to think maybe you should stick to things you learned in your little gun safety class and not speculate too far beyond that.

    3. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by swb · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, there's some risk, but it's pretty minimal. The upper receiver is likely metal, and the upper receiver holds the bolt and the barrel and chamber.

      It's hard to see what kind of problem you would have if the lower failed -- feed problem with a dropped magazine? Broken trigger guard, or just some larger mechanical failure if the lower itself cracked or split?

      None of these would result in a gun blowing up in your face as the cartridge is fired in the chamber which is an integral part of the barrel and connected mechanically to the upper receiver.

      It seems like a good machinist's face shield and a pair of gloves would be more than adequate protection for the risks involved.

    4. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by RobertNotBob · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Yeah, But...

      All of the high-stress areas are also in the UPPER receiver. If the upper receiver, chamber, barrel, bolt-face, cam-lock, and main spring are all from "typically manufactured" steel and aluminum parts, then using this weapon is not any more dangerous than firing a mass-produced AR. - Just less reliable.

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    5. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      In gun safety they show you what even an obstructed barrel can result in when firing a gun.

      Yes, but I'm having a harder time imagining what a defect in the lower receiver would cause that would be equivalent to firing a bullet into an obstructed barrel.

      That's the car equivalent of 3D printing a new hood and then saying man that's crazy risky -- just look at the damage that can happen when the brakes fail.

      The obstruction example was not meant to be an example of what could go wrong here, just how easily guns can become tiny explosions in your face. For your car example, the hood can fly up into your field of view when you take it out on the highway and you could crash into anything. The lower receiver could crumble apart and cause any number of issues for the person holding it including loss of control of the direction of the bullet.

    6. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, see, they're both parts of a gun so the whole thing could explode and take out a school bus and a nursery and ten police officers at a moment's notice!

    7. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The hood is part of the structural strength of the vehicle.

      What if you printed a hood from plastic that shattered? And you had a crash, and sharp plastic shards penetrated the windscreen and impaled you, "Omen" style?

    8. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by CasualFriday · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And hey, it's a plastic gun.

      No, it's not. It's not even close to that. It's a plastic lower receiver with the rest of the gun being not plastic.

      As far as the ATF is concerned, an AR-15 lower receiver is a gun because it is the part of the gun that is serialized. Of course, your statement is true if you're arguing above the legal authority of the ATF, an organization that considers shoelaces to be machine guns.

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    9. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      I have never taken a gun safety class but this was the first thing that came to mind for me as well.

    10. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel as though I need to correct this...

      It's not a school bus and ten police officers. It's ten school buses and one police officer.

    11. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      If these guys want to be taken seriously

      Seems more like they want attention / drama, which they're getting (from people who operate from fear, mostly). A good 3D printer is more expensive than a Smithy combo mill and the mill can actually make a full working gun. Do the attack tree analysis...

      If I was going to spend time making a gun for fun, it would be Jamie's 'pop gun' that shoots soda cans with compressed air from a fire extinguisher tank. That one 'killed' Buster and most people who can change the oil in their car could put one together.

      --
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    12. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Afty0r · · Score: 2

      The hood is part of the structural strength of the vehicle.

      This may be true of some automobiles, but it's certainly not true of them all - many auto hoods now are the equivalent of tin-foil with more thickness of paint on them than metal in them... On my car (Honda S2000) you can make a significant shallow depression in the hood, depressing it only with the strength in your smallest finger...

    13. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      That's OK. Their sister organization the DEA (Drug Enforcement Administration) thinks Marijuana is a Schedule I drug(drugs you can't have anywhere, anytime), right up there with heroin , while the purified form of the active substance in Marijuana, THC (marinol) is a Schedule III drug (drugs with much less of an addictive or medical issue, you can call prescriptions in by phone or fax, get refills of them).

      Dumb and Dumber!

      --
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    14. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Nimey · · Score: 2

      I'm surprised someone with access to a 3D printer would be stupid enough to pull a plastic lower receiver up to his face, put his hand on it and pull the trigger until it failed.

      There's a reason D&D has separate stats for Intelligence and Wisdom, y'know.

      --
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    15. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 2

      To be honest I think they should be looking at different designs entirely to compensate for the poor quality materials, maybe even completely new designs.

    16. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      As a kid we used to take a board with a hole drilled into it, put a rifle round in it and smack it with a hammer to set it off. Got good enough that we were actually hitting targets at 20 yards with it. No one was killed surprisingly. Where you have to worry about with bullets is A. being in front of it when it goes off... and B. having the gas trapped due to a poorly made bullet or a barrel obstruction. There's not really a way for what he made to fail in such a way that the gun would blow up. I'd be sure to check the barrel after every shot though.

    17. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by eyegor · · Score: 2

      There's a fair amount of stress where the buffer tube screws into the lower. Both from torque forces caused by the user pulling the gun in tight to their body while they shoot and stress caused as the buffer spring compresses when the gun shoots. The stress is nothing like what's seen on the upper, but obviously you don't want the gun breaking just because you've pulled in too hard while shooting.

      --

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    18. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by asylumx · · Score: 1

      If the high-stress areas are all in the upper receiver, then why did this lower receiver fail after 6 shots?

    19. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A good 3D printer is more expensive than a Smithy combo mill and the mill can actually make a full working gun.

      An AR lower receiver is only about $150 anyways. But this isn't about money. It's a political troll.

    20. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by vlm · · Score: 2

      It's hard to see what kind of problem you would have if the lower failed

      Worst case scenario is some improbable failure of the sear leading to full auto operation while being filmed. Whoops. Then the jackboots nuke everyone involved from orbit, just to be sure.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    21. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by andydread · · Score: 1

      On and AR-15/M-16/M4 platform the Lower reciever simply holds the trigger mechanism thats it. There is no safety issue. IF the trigger mechanism malfunctions then the gun just wont fire thats all. Its the upper reciever that you have to worry about on these platforms.

    22. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      Plastic lowers are really nothing new, you can get them dirt cheap. The only thing new here is that it's being made with a 3d printer rather than manufactured and sold. The only reason that's even interesting is that the lower is the part of the gun that's regulated so potentially anyone could create their own lower and order all the other parts.

      I agree their test method was foolish; but if not for guys like this we wouldn't get to enjoy the darwin awards each year as you pointed out!

    23. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by PPH · · Score: 2

      When I was your age, we took the hoods off our cars and drove them around like that.

      Now get off my lawn, kid!

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    24. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by need4mospd · · Score: 4, Informative

      The only purpose of a hood is to keep stuff from getting in the engine bay and improve aerodynamics. If you think it adds structural integrity to the vehicle, I suggest you spend a little more time under the hood. Most hoods are attached at two points by weak hinges, real structural there. Not to mention, a common hood material is fiberglass which breaks up into shards fairly easy.

    25. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well...
      As a person who actually builds ARs as a hobby let me follow up. The lower receiver is also where the buffer tube is attached. The buffer and buffer spring are absorbing the blow back of the bolt carrier group and is responsible for returning it to battery position. The point at which the buffer tube meets the lower receiver is a potential point of failure since the receiver is not aluminum. This also happens to be right about where your face is. If it breaks loose chances are the rifle will simply fail to cycle at all. Although if it breaks loose and you fire a second round you may end up with a BCG slamming into a broken buffer tube and having part of it lodged into the side of your face. Even if the potential for failure is small it does exist. Maybe it is just me but until you work out the kinks placing your face next to it is in fact extremely unsafe, face shield or not. One solution to this point of failure is to embed a threaded aluminum collar into the printed piece so the buffer tube had solid threads to anchor to.

    26. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by spitzak · · Score: 1

      As far as the ATF is concerned, an AR-15 lower receiver is a gun because it is the part of the gun that is serialized.

      Why is this? It seems like the serial number should be attached to some more important part of the gun, like the barrel? Especially since the barrel leaves rifling marks that are used to identify weapons. I would also suspect the barrel is going to be the last part to be 3D printed (not because of materials but because of the need to make it have a very straight hole and the ease of doing this with traditional machining). Or put a serial number on all the major parts?

    27. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, there's some risk, but it's pretty minimal. The upper receiver is likely metal, and the upper receiver holds the bolt and the barrel and chamber.

      It's hard to see what kind of problem you would have if the lower failed -- feed problem with a dropped magazine? Broken trigger guard, or just some larger mechanical failure if the lower itself cracked or split?

      None of these would result in a gun blowing up in your face as the cartridge is fired in the chamber which is an integral part of the barrel and connected mechanically to the upper receiver.

      It seems like a good machinist's face shield and a pair of gloves would be more than adequate protection for the risks involved.

      This is no excuse, and not the proper way to test experimental weapon modifications.
      More mundane modifications than this ought to be bench tested.

      Stop defending this please. Failure after cycling _six_ rounds is way past any reasonable thresholds to be firing this thing by hand. If the pistol grip or stock failed after six damn rounds, it should be back in as test rig!

    28. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by cffrost · · Score: 3, Funny

      When I was your age, we took the hoods off our cars and drove them around like that.

      Now get off my lawn, kid!

      Any chance you drove a Gran Torino?

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    29. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by GigsVT · · Score: 2, Informative

      On some guns the upper section is considered the firearm. It depends on the gun. On the AR-15 it's likely the lower because the lower houses the fire control group (trigger/sear/hammer), which defines important traits such as whether the gun is full auto or not.

      The plus side to this is that you can often take a fully automatic lower receiver and use it with different uppers to effectively create different kinds of fully auto guns without needing to get separate tax stamps and avoiding the 1986 prohibition on building new machine guns (with some legal caveats, do the research if you intend to do this).

      --
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    30. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      For your car example, the hood can fly up into your field of view when you take it out on the highway and you could crash into anything.

      Lots of people have DIY add-ons and modifications to their cars.

      I don't deny the possibility for catastrophic tragic failure modes exist for all of them...

      That spoiler the kid bolted onto his honda civic in front of you on the highway could be loose and fly through your windshield and embed itself in your face...

    31. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by hideouspenguinboy · · Score: 2

      Maybe you didn't hear - he took a gun safety class? He's totally an expert. Seriously - that's like someone on slashdot claiming they know what the article says because they read the summary. Oh, wait . . . carry on!

    32. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Worst case: Lower fails with one or more small pieces of plastic loose, is not noticed. Piece of plastic feeds into breach, which is hot enough the round chambers.

      I didn't RTFA. Did they inspect between rounds? Disassemble?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    33. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by karlandtanya · · Score: 1

      And hey, it's a plastic gun.

      No, it's not. It's not even close to that. It's a plastic lower receiver with the rest of the gun being not plastic.

      Actually, that's exactly what it is.
      The lower reciever is the "firearm" as far as BATF are concerned. The rest is just unregulated parts.
      So, if you want a gun, you have 3 (legal) choices
                Run down to Dick's Sporting Goods, hand over your Visa, and (after satisfying all the regulatory burdens), walk out with your gun.
                Wait for a gun show, find a random guy, swap cash and gun on the spot. More privacy, less convenience, no warranty.
                Build your own. As long you're not transferring it to someone else this is (for the moment) perfectly legal.

      The last option, as parent points out, is only safely available to a relatively small group of very skilled experts.

      A "plastic gun"--more specifically a safe lower receiver which can reliably be manufactured with little special skills is significant.
      We are watching the development of a process and set of instructions that will make this available.

      I think we're about to see some very interesting (and fun) developments in firearms design.
      Some folks hear "Holy cow--people could do anything " as a joyful expression of individual freedom.
      Some folks hear it as a threat that must be curtailed at all costs

      --
      "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
    34. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WAAAaaayyyy over stating the risks. All the components which control significant explosive forces are the same components you would otherwise use. The risk here is exceptionally low. Perhaps even on par with that of any other like rifle. The only thing the printed components need do is withstand recoil; which obviously it failed to do.

      And "gun safety" courses don't teach you anything which would be relevant to this discussion. The fact you believe it does, in combination with you assessment pretty much says everything about your ability to even contribute to the discussion.

    35. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      On and AR-15/M-16/M4 platform the Lower reciever(sic) simply holds the trigger mechanism thats it. There is no safety issue. IF the trigger mechanism malfunctions then the gun just wont fire thats all. Its the upper reciever that you have to worry about on these platforms.

      That's not completely true. The buffer tube also screws into the lower receiver. A failure of this while cycling could be bad.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    36. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evidence of no harm? Too much work. Lets go with no evidence of harm.

    37. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by FrankSchwab · · Score: 2

      Wish I had some mod points for this post.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    38. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by tgd · · Score: 2

      The hood is part of the structural strength of the vehicle.

      What if you printed a hood from plastic that shattered? And you had a crash, and sharp plastic shards penetrated the windscreen and impaled you, "Omen" style?

      That's not just wrong, its ridiculously wrong. The hood isn't remotely structural, in any form, in any vehicle. And no plastic shard is going to come from the hood and through the windshield and impale you. Ever.

    39. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hey now, this is eldavojohn we're talking about. He posts here WAY more than you do, so he must know what he's talking about.

    40. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are going with the automobile analogy, it would be much more like printing a clutch from plastic and that exploding. In vehicles with significantly sized engines this *can* cause shards of a clutch (well, at least a normal one which would be metal) to penetrate into the cabin and can seriously injure the (front) occupants without additional protection than is normally provided.

    41. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by RobertNotBob · · Score: 1
      The portion of the recoil energy that the plastic absorbed caused it to crack. The job of the lower receiver is to hold all of the other pieces in proper alignment so they can connect properly to each other. Once the plastic failed, the other pieces fell apart.

      It took 6 impacts before the material failed- Just like a walnut that you hit with a hammer to get at the food; the first hit might be absorbed, but even if you're not swinging brittle shell material will develop cracks and eventually the shell will collapse into tiny bits allowing you access to what's inside.

      In this case, "what's inside" are the internal parts of the weapon, and having access to them is not what you want.

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    42. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by dkuntz · · Score: 1

      Don't forget... Cocaine, Morphine, and Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) are only Schedule II... and Dilaudid is 10 times as strong as heroin (with heroin being 8x as strong as morphine).

      --
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    43. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    44. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Because intelligence is for engineers and wisdom is for magical wizards?

    45. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by logjon · · Score: 0

      Not really an issue. In a revolver, it can be a problem during rapid fire because you cycle the gun manually. In a semi-automatic like the AR-15, the gasses from the propellant cycle it. Thus, if you get a squib, it's not going to cycle the action. Part of cycling the action is ejecting the spent shell and putting a new one in the breach. Not enough gas to push out the projectile means not enough gas to cycle the action means no cartridge in the chamber after a squib means the next time you squeeze the trigger after a squib round, you get a "click" instead of a bang. Obviously, as I said earlier, this does not hold true for revolvers.

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    46. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey now, this is eldavojohn we're talking about. He posts here WAY more than you do, so he must post a lot more regarding stuff he knows nothing about.

      fixed that for ya

    47. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well as someone who has never built a rifle at all in his life, I can assure you it is perfectly safe for me if YOU fire it.

    48. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by sootman · · Score: 2

      > The hood is part of the structural strength of the vehicle.

      Nearly none. It's held on the back with two small hinges and the front with a clip. It lends a bit of torsional rigidity but not much. Almost not enough to measure. Any car can be driven normally for great distances with no hood. The biggest downfalls are aerodynamics and getting water, dirt, and debris into the engine area.

      Also, plastic weak enough to shatter would not be strong enough to go through a laminated windshield -- it would just break against the glass.

      And someone else already pointed out -- race cars (and wannabe race cars) have used fiberglass hoods for years.

      Same thing with the gun in question: the "lower" is pretty much "the plastic bits that hold the important bits in the right spot."

      Still waiting for the day when Slashdot unveils the "-1, factually incorrect" mod.

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    49. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's actually where the receiver failed, if you watch the video.

    50. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 0

      In the shop I maintain proper safety, however I think you are being sensational in your terminology by describing it as 'extremely' unsafe.

      While I agree I wouldn't want my face up there without a shield, (and I don't know if they used a sufficient face shield), but assuming they did, the energy contained in a round of this size is comparable to that of a typical grinding wheel (back of the envelope estimate). I have seen those explode, and they do toss out shrapnel, but for the most part, simple metal shop safety equipment is sufficient to avoid permanent injuries.

      So I'm not saying it is safe to put your face up to this without protection, but a face shield should be sufficient protection. We trust them enough that we don't panic about teenage boys operating high rpm machines in metal shop, and I've seen those goofballs launch bits, lathe tools, and wheels across the room.

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    51. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Automating a trigger mechanism? You would go through all of that? How about some string and a few pulleys to go around a corner somewhere?

    52. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Your car hood would need to meet FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards). This is readily achievable with plastics, fiberglass and other composites. The hood's main purpose is to provide aerodynamic improvement and weather isolation for the engine. I would go so far as to say that if it contributes at all to the car's structural integrity, then you (the car designer) are doing it wrong. The only integrity it needs is to be able to fail in a predictable manner so as to not guillotine the occupants.

    53. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      race cars (and wannabe race cars) have used fiberglass hoods for years.

      They have? Funny, I don't remember seeing fiberglass shards spewing across the track at a NASCAR race whenever they wreck. While Formula 1, and it's siblings, use carbon fiber, it's not fiberglass.

      Same with the Australian V8 Super Cars, rally cars, midgets, modifieds (though they may not have a hood to begin with), sprint, or a whole host of other race cars.

      Even the drag racers don't use fiberglass. They use carbon fiber.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    54. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A good 3D printer is more expensive than a Smithy combo mill and the mill can actually make a full working gun.

      A good 3D printer is more expensive now, but that may not be the case in the future. If a project like this bears any fruit, it would also likely take a lot less skill to make a gun on a 3D printer than it would to use a mill (what with just being able to download the part models and feed it to the printer and all).

    55. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Wisdom is for priests, Intelligence is for wizards.

    56. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dead on, pun intended ;) I too have built a couple of AR's and fire them frequently and completely agree. *I* wouldn't have shot this thing without *SOME* protection... a hard plastic mask and gloves come to mind... but as only the lower was printed I also wouldn't go nuts with precautions.

      I've had very few malfunctions in my day... I take exceptionally good care of all my firearms, especially with my wife and kids sometimes coming to the range to shoot too... but the few times I did I treated the thing like it was a bomb about to go off, because, in at least some scenarios, that's PRECISELY what we're talking about.

      But, a lower receiver breaking apart? I suppose some plastic in your arms and face is a possibility... also in the eye, but as I recall he was at least wearing that (I watched the video yesterday but can't from work now to confirm). You could also, I suppose, in a really catastrophic failure, get a BCG to the face. That would be less than fun.

      Bottom line, AC couldn't be more right: I wouldn't fire this thing without more safety precautions than I remember seeing in the video until I had done at minimum a few hundred bench/safety fires with no problems. If nothing else, it's just not worth a 2% chance of losing an eye in my book. Few things are.

      I mean... generally I agree that guns don't kill people, people kill people... but that axiom may not be true when talking about a plastic printed gun! :)

    57. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Wizards can't even figure out how muggles cook without magic. That's hardly a great sign of intelligence.

    58. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by A+bsd+fool · · Score: 1

      If you look at the link, you'll see that this is exactly where it failed. It's the same place the bushy carbon-15 rifles tend to fail as well. As another AR-15 aficionado, I must say, the risk of personal injury is pretty small and the severity of those risks is likely to be small as well.

    59. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by BlackPignouf · · Score: 2

      If these guys want to be taken seriously, they probably should build an AK with a shovel and a vodka bottle :D
      http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DIY-Shovel-AK-photo-tsunami-warning

    60. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Cheap drag racers use fiberglass. Obviously not top fuel.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    61. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that this is where things are going. Including how to machine the other parts needed to build the gun, using normal metal shop tools. The real thing is, all the gun laws in the world are useless when you can make your own gun with freely available instructions and common machining tools. At that point, you can ban guns all you want, and the criminals will still make / get them.

      And Bob Costas can suck an egg.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    62. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1
      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    63. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      "are NOW considered" ... doooh

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    64. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard a radio interview with the guy on npr. I was quite disapointed and let down, he was a total and complete jackass.

    65. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by MrNaz · · Score: 1

      Umm... I'm going to tentatively call BS on your rifle round in a board story. A rifle round without a barrel to direct the gas behind it won't have the energy to travel 20 yards, let alone impact something in any meaningful manner.

      If it can be done, YouTube it and make a fool of me.

      --
      I hate printers.
    66. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Careful. A lot of people object to the Daily Mail because of a mistake a subeditor made with a headline in 1934. The best response to this is to say "WHAT'S THE MATTER? TOO TRUE FOR YOU?"

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    67. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously don't know the DIY engineer mindset. I've seen projects that were far more dangerous, including some that if left unguarded and were so much as touched, would almost certainly cause a fatality. Safety isn't always the DIYers first concern, they are out to prove it can be done not that it can be done safely. Safety is for later revisions.

    68. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1
      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    69. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by sootman · · Score: 1

      > Even the drag racers don't use fiberglass. They use carbon fiber.

      They used fiberglass before carbon fiber was affordable. (Or even existed, maybe.) And they still do.

      I guess all the sites linked on this site don't exist either. Also, Corvettes don't exist. Nothing to see here. Move along.

      Besides, fiberglass won't break into shards. It may break more like wood than metal (which also gets torn to confetti in multi-hundred-mile-per-hour crashes) but it's not, like, flying shards of regular window glass.

      Do you even know anything about fiberglass at all?

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    70. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here I was thinking that the hood was there to prevent shrapnel from being propelled upwards in the event of a crash or critical engine failure. Guess that the structural components and the regulations here regarding that kind of thing are just red tape.

    71. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by heefeneet · · Score: 1

      Careful. A lot of people object to the Daily Mail because of a mistake a subeditor made with a headline in 1934. The best response to this is to say "WHAT'S THE MATTER? TOO TRUE FOR YOU?"

      Actually, a lot of people object to the Daily Mail because it is a right-wing, xenophobic troll publication masquerading as a newspaper. The whole "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" thing is not considered anymore, because gay paedophile immigrants who hate the queen are destroying society.

    72. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by RaceProUK · · Score: 1

      Bonnets (hoods to USians) aren't structural insofar as they contribute no rigidity to the car. Most are only attached at three points, and those points are only strong enough to keep the bonnet down at highway speed. The true strength of a car comes from the chassis, body frame and the front/rear subframes. In fact, on some newer cars, the bonnet is designed to pop up in a pedestrian collision to soak up some of the force.

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    73. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by heefeneet · · Score: 1

      and one police officer.

      Who is one day away from retirement.

    74. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you make a point of using "bonnet", and go to the trouble of defining it so that American readers know what you're talking about, but then go on to use the Americanism "highway speed"? Why not use the Americanism "hood" as well?

    75. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by RaceProUK · · Score: 1

      Because.

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    76. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Quila · · Score: 1

      A hood may not be part of the structural rigidity of the car, but it is often used to absorb energy in a crash. Metal hoods buckle, fibreglass ones explode into a million tiny (non-lethal) pieces. I had a friend who got into an accident in a fiberglass car, and he was still finding fiberglass bits months later.

    77. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Quila · · Score: 1

      Is it just me, or did that actually cycle after failure? I haven't broken down an AR in a while, but that looks like the back of the BCG in about the right position. Another pull of the trigger would have been very painful.

      This was seriouly the geek version of "Hold muh beer an' watch this!" They got lucky. I hope they use a benchrest next time.

    78. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by anyGould · · Score: 1

      Not to put too fine a point on things, but if the goal is "test it until it breaks", do you really want to be next to it when that happens, regardless of what you hope or expect it will do?

    79. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by K10W · · Score: 1

      Careful. A lot of people object to the Daily Mail because of a mistake a subeditor made with a headline in 1934. The best response to this is to say "WHAT'S THE MATTER? TOO TRUE FOR YOU?"

      Actually, a lot of people object to the Daily Mail because it is a right-wing, xenophobic troll publication masquerading as a newspaper. The whole "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" thing is not considered anymore, because gay paedophile immigrants who hate the queen are destroying society.

      yeah my thoughts exactly, only you forgot the fact they're also dole cheat drug dealing gay paedo anti royal immigrants. Well except the newspaper masquerading bit, that rag never even tried pretending to be a newspaper hence everyone I know would instantly discredit citation upon seeing the name (as I did)

    80. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a kid we used to take a board with a hole drilled into it, put a rifle round in it and smack it with a hammer to set it off. Got good enough that we were actually hitting targets at 20 yards with it. No one was killed surprisingly. Where you have to worry about with bullets is A. being in front of it when it goes off... and B. having the gas trapped due to a poorly made bullet or a barrel obstruction. There's not really a way for what he made to fail in such a way that the gun would blow up. I'd be sure to check the barrel after every shot though.

      BULLSHIT no way you'd get enough pressure behind an uncontained bullet never mind consistent accuracy to be able to aim it at a target which you're suggesting with the "got good enough". I'd let ya off with "got f**ing unbelievably if somewhat unrepeatably lucky" and halved your distance figure

    81. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      What's the matter? Too true for you?

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    82. Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face? by DirtyLiar · · Score: 1

      And hey, it's a plastic gun.

      No, it's not. It's not even close to that.

      Well, at least it's an inexpensive rifle... You know, after you pay for the printer, and material, and... uh...

      Well, it's not as if you can just run down to the local gun shop and plunk $450 down for a REAL AK-47... oh wait.

      Well, at least you can control the quality...

      I'm surprised someone with access to a 3D printer would be stupid enough to pull a plastic lower receiver up to his face, put his hand on it and pull the trigger until it failed.

      Well...

      If these guys want to be taken seriously, they probably should 3D print something that will prevent them from winning a Darwin award.

      You just shut up! (Waaaa!)

      --

      THINK! It's patriotic

  2. Legality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since the lower receiver is the "regulated" part of the AR-15 (the part that the ATF considers to be the actual gun), isn't think rather illegal?

    1. Re:Legality? by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Informative

      Since the lower receiver is the "regulated" part of the AR-15 (the part that the ATF considers to be the actual gun), isn't think rather illegal?

      Home-made rifles are completely legal, you just can't sell or otherwise distribute them. The plans for them, on the other hand, you can distribute, hence the project.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    2. Re:Legality? by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      You can build guns for private use, you don't even need to stamp a registration number on it. Until you transfer the gun to some other party you are in the clear, and even then there are some exceptions I believe.

    3. Re:Legality? by mlts · · Score: 1

      In the past, one could buy raw frames and receivers, put the parts on, and have a fully functioning firearm except sans a serial number.

      These days, the frames have to be 80% finishes (the customer has to do the last part) to be legal with BATF.

      What I'm waiting for is the changes in NFA/BATF policy to deal with the printed lower receivers. I doubt they would require barrels or other parts to be serialized, but who knows.

    4. Re:Legality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      building a title 1 gun (e.g. a semi-automatic or bolt action rifle or handgun, i.e. not a machine gun, short barrel rifle/shotgun, destructive device, any other weapon or other firearm with restrictions on their possession or transfer) is perfectly legal without a manufacturing license as long as it is for personal use only and not built with the intention of transfering it. in fact, you can even sell it down the line if you want to as long as it wasn't built with that intention.

    5. Re:Legality? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Technically, you cant make with intent to sell without a manufacturer license. However, you could make 'less than complete' kits with intent. Aside from a safety liability standpoint, you could sell something later that you never intended on selling.

      Also have to watch local laws and regulations for additional restrictions on manufacture and sales as that will vary from area to area. ( even tho they are unconstitutional if you ask me )

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  3. Counterintuitive by sixtyeight · · Score: 1

    I wonder what having techie types with superior firepower as the societal norm will do to the prevalent stereotype.

    --
    The Wolfpack Project: BitCoin + Crowdfunding = Political Accountability
    1. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing since you'll still be in mommy's basement with cheetos-stained fingers.

    2. Re:Counterintuitive by Thiez · · Score: 1

      Seems to me the military has superior firepower. And the techies aren't allowed to go around shooting people (just like the non-techies), so it doesn't even make a difference even if you ignore the military.

      It's likely that most techies could already have superior firepower today even without this technology, as they tend to have above-average income and having more Benjamins presumably buys you bigger guns.

    3. Re:Counterintuitive by Tangential · · Score: 1

      Nothing since you'll still be in mommy's basement with cheetos-stained fingers.

      As long as they are the Crunchy Cheddar Jalapeno CHEETOS® I can live with that.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
    4. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes you think that's not already the case?

    5. Re:Counterintuitive by RobertNotBob · · Score: 2
      If this is anything new for you... you might not have been paying enough attention.

      My IT industry friends are the most well armed guys I know.

      --
      ___ I don't respond to Anonymous Cowards, and I Never Mod them UP.
    6. Re:Counterintuitive by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      I wonder what having techie types with superior firepower as the societal norm will do to the prevalent stereotype.

      Instead of a bunch of smelly, hairy, alcohol fueled crazies running around with guns, you will have a bunch of smell, hairy, meth-addict level Mountain Dew infused crazies (with yellow / orange greasy fingers) running around with guns.

      I, for one, welcome our new Mountain Dew swilling overlords.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    7. Re:Counterintuitive by elucido · · Score: 0

      I wonder what having techie types with superior firepower as the societal norm will do to the prevalent stereotype.

      The real question is why do we need more firepower? How do highly evolved highly intelligent people benefit from this?

    8. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's actually quite difficult to simply think yourself out of potentially dangerous confrontation.

    9. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It makes dudes with penile inferiority feel bigger.

    10. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not smelly, you insensitive clod.

    11. Re:Counterintuitive by logjon · · Score: 0

      That didn't take long.

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
    12. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder what having techie types with superior firepower as the societal norm will do to the prevalent stereotype.

      Instead of a bunch of smelly, hairy, alcohol fueled crazies running around with guns, you will have a bunch of smell, hairy, meth-addict level Mountain Dew infused crazies (with yellow / orange greasy fingers) running around with guns.

      I, for one, welcome our new Mountain Dew swilling overlords.

      You forgot the over-developed sense of righteousness and self-worth, plus the terrifying lack of concern for any thing or any concept outside of their narrow set of interests.

      For both sides.

    13. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make small crossbows and bolts. With today's technology and materials, one of those things will be a lot deadlier than whatever toys these guys make.(deadlier for the targets, not the users)

    14. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's what she said.

    15. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just hang on a while, it should only take an hour or two to print this out and assemble it.

    16. Re:Counterintuitive by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      The real question is why do we need more firepower? How do highly evolved highly intelligent people benefit from this?

      You would know, if you were one :P

      j/k

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    17. Re:Counterintuitive by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      I'm not smelly, you insensitive clod.

      You should consider a second opinion. You have become used to the smell. Others around you have not.

      Or do you still imagine people run from you shrieking because Godzilla is standing behind you?

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    18. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Plenty of people who lack the social skills to become part of a community turn to guns instead.

    19. Re:Counterintuitive by Redmancometh · · Score: 1

      Ugh. The last 10-15 posts.

    20. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Still quicker than waiting for the police to show up.

    21. Re:Counterintuitive by darkstar949 · · Score: 1

      The real question is why do we need more firepower? How do highly evolved highly intelligent people benefit from this?

      Shooting stuff is fun! That's really all there is to it. For most it's just like any other hobby that people have except that it tends to be more expensive.

    22. Re:Counterintuitive by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      In a civilian clash with the military, the military loses. At least half the military will defect to protect the citizenry, possibly more. With defective supergovernmental structures such as republics (i.e. the US), each state has its own military (in the US this is the "national guard"), which will likely defend its state from invasion by the central government's military with extreme prejudice. The citizenry, if sufficiently equipped, vastly outnumbers the military--in the US about half a million troops, contrast with 300 million citizenry, 170 million taxpayers, over 120 million working force, and many of the retirees can and will fight. Defected military will likely overtake armories and bases immediately--especially concentrated defections (if 80% of the base defects..) and ESPECIALLY national guards--and then supply the citizenry with weapons. In some cultures (Texas, Georgia, Alabama), women and young teenagers will fight as well.

      It's ineffable for the US military to attack the US citizenry.

    23. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False. History is full of examples of where a military is used against domestic civil bodies. They just have to ensure that the majority of the soldiers are deployed in theatres not near their homes, that the majority of soliders are of the retarded "just follow orders" variety, and that they have a supply of psychopaths who genuinely enjoy the brutality of war to be used for the most violent crackdowns.

      Look at South Africa. prior to 1994 the black nation was united against the white government. Now black police officers are being used to massacre black miners to support a white-owned mine. Even in the US there are plenty of examples where law enforcement has demonstrated willingness, nay, ENTHUSIASM, for the opportunities to lay the smack down on what they see as a the lowly civilian mob.

      For further demonstration of how people can be used against people, look at the Stanford Prison experiment. There is no better research done into the manipulation of people into tools of barbarism against people.

      The idea that we are safe from our own military because they are from among us is fantasy.

    24. Re:Counterintuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And plenty of people who have plenty of social skills learn to use guns for plenty of sensible reasons.

    25. Re:Counterintuitive by sixtyeight · · Score: 1

      Wasn't aware that I did.

      Stereotypes don't shift due to facts. They shift due to perceptions. Trolls and other internet shills have been relying on that for decades.

      --
      The Wolfpack Project: BitCoin + Crowdfunding = Political Accountability
    26. Re:Counterintuitive by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      FTW! Just... don't rub your eyes after eating these.

  4. "Plastic Gun" by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

    Well, hell, if this qualfies as a plastic gun, then so is my Sig SP2022, and it survives a lot more than 6 rounds. A plastic lower is just a frame; just like my Sig, or Glocks, or numerous other firearms, the actual firing mechanisms(trigger assembly for lower; barrel, firing pin, chamber, and numerous other parts for the upper) are still made of metal.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:"Plastic Gun" by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except those plastics were specifically designed for this purpose (IIRC that's the whole deal with Glocks - 'cheap' simple plastic guns). Not the whatever thermoplastic ribbon you get in a 3 D printer.

      Real question: How many different kinds of plastic are available for these things? One of the interesting things about plastics chemistry is that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of different types available with different properties. Picking the right plastic for the job is a very important thing.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:"Plastic Gun" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are kind of getting it wrong, though. All the poly wonder pistols will have steel frame rails that the slide travels on, which is embedded into the plastic frame. The unique challenge to printing an AR15 receiver is that you won't have a steel skeleton to reinforce/embed in the polymer.

    3. Re:"Plastic Gun" by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      You are kind of getting it wrong too. Glocks, XDs, and other polymer pistols are also made of reinforced plastic. It is not the same as the printed plastic.

      You are correct that stress points of the plastic frames as well as many of the internals are metal.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    4. Re:"Plastic Gun" by xtal · · Score: 1

      There are lots of resins and this is a very active area. New products are coming on the market all the time, and the materials are well understood.

      More to the point, the cost of printing metal alloys directly is dropping quite rapidly. Printed metal is very durable, can be machined and in some cases, even surface finished. It is likely only a matter of time before this technology becomes available in a low-cost format.

      Exciting times.

      --
      ..don't panic
    5. Re:"Plastic Gun" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not with the Objet printers or high end materials on Stratasys. Dial-a-material.

  5. Just to point out Glocks are plastic by davydagger · · Score: 1

    The recievers on Glock handguns are plastic, just to point out. Obviously, its possible to make plastic guns, just not by replacing plastic with metal

    Barrels, springs and working parts are the only thing that needs to be made out of metal.

    also 5.7x28 is a terrible calibre. Its pistol ammo, that at best has the knockdown and kick of 9mm, and at worst is an expensive non-standard cartridge. Its far overhyped, and far overrated.

    1. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      also 5.7x28 is a terrible calibre. Its pistol ammo

      Strictly speaking, it's PDW ammo, not pistol ammo. Or in other words: coincidentally, there's a pistol for it - one, as far as I know. Does that really make it "pistol ammo"?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by CasualFriday · · Score: 1

      Barrels, springs and working parts are the only thing that needs to be made out of metal. also 5.7x28 is a terrible calibre. Its pistol ammo, that at best has the knockdown and kick of 9mm, and at worst is an expensive non-standard cartridge. Its far overhyped, and far overrated.

      It should be noted that Glocks' slides are not made of polymer either. Additionally, 5.7x28 is terrible if you're looking for a large bullet. It has large capacity and is also armor-piercing, so it fills a niche that standard 9mm doesn't really satisfy. I do agree with you that it's overhyped and expensive, though.

      --
      Raters gon' rate.
    3. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its possible to make plastic guns, just not by replacing plastic with metal

      Well duh, if you replaced the plastic with metal you'd have a metal gun.

    4. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      According to the ATF it does. This has consequences in the types of bullets that can be used. If something can be chambered in a pistol, generally you can't easily get armor piercing ammo for it for civilian use.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    5. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      It is not armor piercing anymore than 22 magnum.
      It is just a high velocity tiny calibre round.

      It is just a more expensive overhyped 22 magnum.

    6. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Ah. That must have something to do with the fact that as far as I am concerned, ATF can, generally speaking, kiss my ass. However, I don't think that in my country, legality of AP ammo does in any way depend on what kind ammo you want it for. (If ATF allows civilians to shoot non-pistol AP ammo, good for you.)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      I am not familiar with the the 5.7x28 cartridge but just because someone makes a handgun that chambers it doesn't mean that it is a handgun round. Besides there are already handguns chambered for rifle round, I would suggest checking out things like the Thompson Contender line or the Taurus Raging Bull line of handguns, or doing a Google search for AR pistol, AK pistol, or draco pistol.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    8. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      also 5.7x28 is a terrible calibre. Its pistol ammo, that at best has the knockdown and kick of 9mm

      It has significantly lower recoil than 9mm, actually. And it has better penetration (but worse knockdown).

    9. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      So far as I know, the prohibition on AP ammo is generic, and not just for pistols. The only reason why you can get "green tips" with steel penetrator for your AR is that they're specifically excluded from being categorized as AP, by name, in the text of the corresponding law.

    10. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      It's armor-piercing in its original incarnation as designed for military use (which has a steel penetrator). Which, of course, is not what you get as a civilian, but that's another matter.

    11. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      No it's only for handguns. The thing is they make handguns in nearly every caliber, so it's somewhat moot, other than the exceptions for 30-06 AP and 223 green tip etc.

      It's in section 922 of title 18 chapter 44.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    12. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I may be missing something, but I just went and looked up the corresponding point in 922, and it says:

      (a) It shall be unlawful— ...

      (7) for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition, unless—
      (A) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State;
      (B) the manufacture of such ammunition is for the purpose of exportation; or
      (C) the manufacture or importation of such ammunition is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General;

      (8) for any manufacturer or importer to sell or deliver armor piercing ammunition, unless such sale or delivery—
      (A) is for the use of the United States, any department or agency of the United States, any State, or any department, agency, or political subdivision of a State;
      (B) is for the purpose of exportation; or
      (C) is for the purpose of testing or experimentation and has been authorized by the Attorney General; [1]

      I don't see any mention of handguns here.

    13. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by davydagger · · Score: 1

      green tips /= steel.
      they are just the heavier 65 grain m855 round used for modern m16s with tighter barrel twists. 1:9 as opposed to the original 1:14

      grey tips are steel core. Yes, you can legally buy steel core ammo. All m16 rounds have copper jacketing, as most AP rounds used by the military are, so even if they wouldn't be really considered AP

      Then AP rounds only apply to pistol ammunition.

      http://www.northwestfirearms.com/ammunition-reloading/36448-steel-core-ammo.html

    14. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Green tips are M855/SS109 military NATO round. They do have a steel penetrator tip. They're also heavier, yes (albeit 62 grain, not 65), but that is irrelevant.

    15. Re:Just to point out Glocks are plastic by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Legislators are worse than coders

              (B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means -
                      (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a
                  handgun
      and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence
                  of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of
                  tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or
                  depleted uranium; or
                      (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber
                  designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a
                  weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the
                  projectile.

      Its all in the definition of AP

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  6. So... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1, Funny

    Is it too early to set up a kickstarter to pay for the finger reattachment that one of these plucky alpha testers is going to earn himself?

    "So, um, guys, I'm working on a project that will involve briefly generating an overpressure of up to 50 thousand PSI accompanied by a release of heat, probably not more than a dozen cycles within a one minute period. It's handheld. What 3d-printable thermoplastic would be best?"

  7. Object and Stratasys have merged by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Object and Stratasys have completed their merger yesterday, so we'll see about that "libertarian mindset"...

  8. Why is this considered a good thing? by elucido · · Score: 0, Troll

    If we are going to use printers to make weapons why aren't we making non-lethal weapons at least?
    Second of all why do we need to be making weapons at all? The government should have a monopoly on violence as it is the role of government to control weapons. Do we really want this?

    1. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by logjon · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not sure if you're joking or European.

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
    2. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by wiedzmin · · Score: 1

      The government should have a monopoly on violence

      Oh, wow, not sure if you've intended it that way, but what a great way to sum up the government's goals.

      --
      Bow before me, for I am root.
    3. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      If we are going to use printers to make weapons why aren't we making non-lethal weapons at least?

      Um... because lethal one's are easier?

      Seriously, what kind of non-lethal weapon could you even make with a 3D printer? a plastic stick?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    4. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh? Governments have a monopoly on violence? I'll be sure to tell that to the next mugger or home invader I mean. :P

    5. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because the Americans pretty much see it as human right to have lethal weapons available. You know, just in case you happen to need to kill someone.

    6. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by logjon · · Score: 1

      Actually, the overwhelming majority of defensive firearm uses are carried out without a single shot fired. But yes, people more than occasionally need to defend themselves with lethal force.

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
    7. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by Formorian · · Score: 1

      The government should have a monopoly on violence as it is the role of government to control weapons. Do we really want this?

      Really? I'm at a loss to this statement specifically.

      And no I really don't want the gov't to control all weapons (btw weapon could be knife/bat/any blunt object/etc. just saying). I know the Do we really want this was for something else, and to that, Yeah I think it's neat. Have no issue with this.

      For fairness, I own 1 black powder rifle for hunting, 1 shotgun for hunting. I do have a pistol permit in NYS (pita to get in NYS and I can't carry in NYC) but no pistols.

    8. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by Hatta · · Score: 1

      The government should never have a monopoly on violence, as it will inevitably abuse that monopoly. Free people must always have the option to resist.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by swillden · · Score: 2

      The government should have a monopoly on violence

      Had that been true in the mid- to late 1700s, the United States would still be a set of British colonies. Within American political theory, at least, possession of arms by the common citizen is of critical importance to political freedom, since it provides the ultimate recourse should the political process be subverted so that it no longer recognizes the will of the people. This is the reason why the ability to manufacture arms at home is of value, because such self-manufactured arms cannot be regulated.

      I realize many people have such deep faith in the inevitability of democratic processes that this seems silly. Personally, I hope they're right, because armed rebellions are very messy, nasty affairs, and there's no guarantee that what comes out the other end will be an improvement. But I see great value in preserving the option.

      (To head off a common objection: Yes, 50 million people armed with rifles can successfully defeat a few hundred thousand armed with tanks and military aircraft. The first step is to use the rifles to acquire tanks and military aircraft. Even a few thousand people armed with rifles and improvised explosives can pose a serious challenge to a much larger modern military force, though not defeat it. In practice, merely having sufficient arms to force an open conflict would probably be enough to get a large portion of the military to refuse to fire on their fellow citizens, if not outright join them.)

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    10. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      If we are going to use printers to make weapons why aren't we making non-lethal weapons at least?

      Because there are no non-lethal weapons. There are only less lethal weapons.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    11. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's retarded. Just like all the moderators who modded him insightful.

    12. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by Bigby · · Score: 2

      Because the Americans pretty much see it as human right to defend oneself from possible government tyranny. You know, just in case the government wants to run roughshod over its people.

      FTFY

      And before you say, "that will never happen", think of all the other times in history it has happened and how history repeats itself.
      And before you say, "the government has bombs", do you think bombs will win the "war on terror"?

    13. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by chebucto · · Score: 1

      No, it's a basis for Western political theory. Though the GP should have said State not Government. There's nothing sinister implied by it. It simply means that only the state can condone violence. One state can attack another (a war), one person can't attack another (a fistfight or worse).

      As with all rights, though, with this right the state is burdened with obligations. The most salient is the obligation to protect its own citizens. So, the state must supply a police force (to protect against people) and a military (to protect against other states).

      Perhaps your mind immediately jumped to the worst-case scenario: a totalitarian, Nazi-like government that infringes on the rights of the people. In that case, the state would be in violation of its obligations, and would lose its right to a monopoly on violence.

      --
      The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
    14. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CO2 pellet gun?

    15. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by logjon · · Score: 0

      one person can't attack another (a fistfight or worse) I think you're confusing "can" with "is allowed to." Self-defense is a fundamental right. So, the state must supply a police force (to protect against people) Which works great, until it doesn't. Every day. In that case, the state would be in violation of its obligations, and would lose its right to a monopoly on violence. And that, historically speaking, happens well before the population is convinced to give up their means of violence, right?

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
    16. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by chebucto · · Score: 1

      Don't nit-pick. I didn't confuse 'can't' with 'isn't allowed to', my word choice was perfectly valid. You would have a point if I had said 'one person is unable to attack another', but that would be silly.

      It is a truism that the state fails at its protection every day, but perfection is an impossible test outside of math. The better test is whether a given type of weapon improves or harms individual security. Do the liberal gun laws in the US make people in general safer? Are armed people safer more or less likely to be victims of crime, or more or less likely to be harmed in a crime, than unarmed people? These are the kind of questions you should ask.

      The fantasy of the armed patriots rising up against a facist new order is a silly argument to use unless you also advocate for personal ownership of RPGs, landmines, tanks, nukes, and other heavy weapons. Practically speaking, if such a totalitarian state ever takes over the US government, then there will likely by defections from the armed forces which will join the regular people in the fight against the government. That is usually what happens - see Libya and Syria recently, for example. You might point to Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, but to that I'd just say that a plurality voted for Hitler and Russians seem to return to the strong state model often, implying they like that sort of thing, or at least it's the best model given their human geography.

      --
      The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
    17. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      If we are going to use printers to make weapons why aren't we making non-lethal weapons at least?

      Non-lethal weapons are markedly less efficient for self-defense than lethal ones. Those that are actually somewhat efficient (like Tazers) are usually not nearly as non-lethal as their manufacturers would make you think.

      Second of all why do we need to be making weapons at all? The government should have a monopoly on violence as it is the role of government to control weapons. Do we really want this?

      Define "we". Someone has to make weapons for me to be able to buy one, monopoly or not. As it stands, those weapons are already made by private companies, and some of them can be pretty small workshops; what's the fundamental difference between a guy with a workshop, and a guy with a 3D printer?

      Note that this does not preclude government regulation of weapon manufacture. A law could well be enacted that'd require the person producing the lower to register it. US does not have such a law, currently, for various reasons, but these are unrelated to this discussion.

      Also, the government having a monopoly on violence does not preclude it from delegating it to its citizens under some circumstances where it's obviously a good idea, such as self-defense. And, of course, if you want your citizens to be able to efficiently defend themselves, you want them to be armed.

    18. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by logjon · · Score: 1

      The better test is whether a given type of weapon improves or harms individual security.

      I'm safer with a gun than without one.

      Do the liberal gun laws in the US make people in general safer?

      Those who care enough to invest in their safety are safer. Those who want to completely rely on others for such things would be fucked in a bad situation regardless of what country they're in.

      The fantasy of the armed patriots rising up...

      So let me ask you something. Do you think that they took a few tanks along to pick up every Jew? Do you think their war effort, let alone their Jew-collection effort, would have not been hampered in the least if the Warsaw ghetto and every other Jewish community had been armed as well as the average American suburb? Do you not think that small arms in the hands of civilians would be instrumental in aiding the armed forces defectors to whom you refer, many of whom would have access to heavier weapons as well? Do you not think that small arms would be instrumental in securing more heavy weapons?

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
    19. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      This is why I like my fists and the Jo more than swords and knives. All I can do with knives is maim and injure; with fists I can inflict more controlled injuries. I can also skip some level of maiming and go straight to killing. The option for a less-lethal combat mode is better suited to my tastes, but I can still mistakenly kill you by sweeping your legs out from under you and sending your skull crashing down on a rock.

      That said, I love swords. Not like I need 5000 of them, but I want to have, learn to use, and carry one. I don't know why, some kind of romantic authority I guess. It's the same for swords and jo as it is for guitar and piano: I love the guitar, it is a fun instrument to play, it's extremely dynamic (possibly the most dynamic instrument there is), portable, it's everything. I never get any good at it. Piano... I rarely practice, I suck at it, but whenever I spend a day or three practicing I get really good REALLY FUCKING FAST. I started practicing for 20 minutes a week and in 3 weeks I was playing half of Darkness and Starlight (yes that's an hour of practice time).

      The first time somebody handed me a Jo, I immediately knew I could take down armies with just a simple length of wood... it just moves on its own, it's always where it needs to be, and it can reverse position instantaneously (it's in two positions at once); I can move and it can move and together that is all the world. The sword is so hard to control, it is a slow weapon... and it is a blunt object of wanton murder; while the Jo does not command authority, it allows true defense without inflicting severe injury. I can wave a sword at someone to scare them off or I can apply force and make them bleed and die; I can deflect weapons, unseat balance, inflict bruises and pain or inflict death with the Jo, and so are my options far greater than hesitance or murder.

      Guns are slow up close because they can be taken directly while being drawn, whereas you do not want to grab the blade of a knife. Just out of reach, they are fatal. I have nothing against guns or swords; if you don't want to die, you shouldn't threaten harm on others who may carry no other means to defend themselves. These weapons do not suit my purposes; I need greater options. I do not make threats; I take action. I must meet threats with defense, and the only defense a gun offers me is shooting someone immediately to uncontrollable harm.

    20. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by Marxdot · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, it has become normal for Americans to cheer tyranny on.

    21. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by elucido · · Score: 1

      If we are going to use printers to make weapons why aren't we making non-lethal weapons at least?

      Non-lethal weapons are markedly less efficient for self-defense than lethal ones. Those that are actually somewhat efficient (like Tazers) are usually not nearly as non-lethal as their manufacturers would make you think.

      Second of all why do we need to be making weapons at all? The government should have a monopoly on violence as it is the role of government to control weapons. Do we really want this?

      Define "we". Someone has to make weapons for me to be able to buy one, monopoly or not. As it stands, those weapons are already made by private companies, and some of them can be pretty small workshops; what's the fundamental difference between a guy with a workshop, and a guy with a 3D printer?

      Note that this does not preclude government regulation of weapon manufacture. A law could well be enacted that'd require the person producing the lower to register it. US does not have such a law, currently, for various reasons, but these are unrelated to this discussion.

      Also, the government having a monopoly on violence does not preclude it from delegating it to its citizens under some circumstances where it's obviously a good idea, such as self-defense. And, of course, if you want your citizens to be able to efficiently defend themselves, you want them to be armed.

      Defend themselves from what? Why can't those citizens become a cop or buy a defense oriented weapon? A machine gun or high powered rifle is not a defense weapon.

    22. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Defend themselves from what? Why can't those citizens become a cop or buy a defense oriented weapon? A machine gun or high powered rifle is not a defense weapon.

      GP was talking about firearms in general, not about specific weapons. A handgun is a "defense oriented weapon" - the best one there is as of today. Rifles and shotguns are there for hunting, sport and defense against predators in wilderness areas. Machine guns are already heavily regulated (and manufacturing one is illegal outright), so they're not subject of this discussion.

      Defend themselves from what? Why, any threats of death or bodily harm that come from other people, such as a drugged out junkie with a knife. Go to YouTube and search for "security camera self defense", you'll see plenty of examples.

      Become a cop? Don't be ridiculous. I shouldn't have to join a full-time police force just to get the means to defend myself in face of physical aggression from another person.

      Oh, and regardless of all that, it should be the proponents of gun control who should provide a rationale for their proposed bans on gun ownership, not the other way around. The right to own and carry weapons is a personal freedom, not really any distinct from freedom to smoke marijuana or have an abortion. If you want to restrict a personal freedom, you better damn have a very good reason to do so.

    23. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by chebucto · · Score: 1

      You're safer with a gun because so many others have guns. If there were fewer guns, there would be less reason to have one to protect yourself. I'll admit the situation in the US is hard, because there are so many guns out there, but I don't think the solution to guns is more guns.

      Time does not start when the attack starts. People who rely on police for protection do not rely on them only when their house is invaded, they rely on them to keep the crime rate low and put criminals in jail, where they pose no threat.

      Partisans fought the Nazis by and large with guns they got after the war started. And, with the possible exception of Yugoslavia, the most they did was hinder, not evict, the occupier. In WW2, like in any other war I can think of, partisans were able to mount a fight because they possessed two things: the will to fight and outside support.

      --
      The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
    24. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Not sure if you're joking or British.

      Here, FTFY. We continentals have no problems with handguns.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    25. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by elucido · · Score: 1

      Defend themselves from what? Why can't those citizens become a cop or buy a defense oriented weapon? A machine gun or high powered rifle is not a defense weapon.

      GP was talking about firearms in general, not about specific weapons. A handgun is a "defense oriented weapon" - the best one there is as of today. Rifles and shotguns are there for hunting, sport and defense against predators in wilderness areas. Machine guns are already heavily regulated (and manufacturing one is illegal outright), so they're not subject of this discussion.

      Defend themselves from what? Why, any threats of death or bodily harm that come from other people, such as a drugged out junkie with a knife. Go to YouTube and search for "security camera self defense", you'll see plenty of examples.

      Become a cop? Don't be ridiculous. I shouldn't have to join a full-time police force just to get the means to defend myself in face of physical aggression from another person.

      Oh, and regardless of all that, it should be the proponents of gun control who should provide a rationale for their proposed bans on gun ownership, not the other way around. The right to own and carry weapons is a personal freedom, not really any distinct from freedom to smoke marijuana or have an abortion. If you want to restrict a personal freedom, you better damn have a very good reason to do so.

      I'm not for gun control. I'm for non-lethal weapons. I don't think a handgun is necessarily more effective than a non-lethal weapon. The adversary could wear a bullet proof vest, your gun could jam, they could be a better shot, or you could just not want to spend 20-30 years in jail for defending yourself.

    26. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by logjon · · Score: 0

      Duly noted.

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
    27. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by logjon · · Score: 0

      You're safer with a gun because so many others have guns. If there were fewer guns, there would be less reason to have one to protect yourself. It also protects me against knives, bats and crowbars, among other things. And if we look at what's happened historically in western countries after they disarm their citizens, there are actually more such violent crimes committed on the defenseless population. I don't think the solution to guns is more guns. That's because you're looking at the method as the problem. Guns are not the problem. Violence is the problem. And a gun is absolutely a solution to an attempted violent victimization. Time does not start when the attack starts. No shit. People who rely on police for protection do not rely on them only when their house is invaded, they rely on them to keep the crime rate low and put criminals in jail, where they pose no threat. And that's great, right up until they miss one. Partisans fought the Nazis by and large with guns they got after the war started. Warsaw ghetto. French resistance. And, with the possible exception of Yugoslavia Why are we drawing exceptions? the most they did was hinder, not evict, the occupier. And? The more resources spent fighting them, the less there are to go around. In WW2, like in any other war I can think of, partisans were able to mount a fight because they possessed two things: the will to fight and outside support. Being armed helps too.

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
    28. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I'm not for gun control. I'm for non-lethal weapons. I don't think a handgun is necessarily more effective than a non-lethal weapon.

      In virtually all circumstances, it's either more effective, or at least just as ineffective.

      In fact, can you give an example of a non-lethal weapon that is effective?

      The adversary could wear a bullet proof vest

      There's no such thing as a "bullet proof" vest. They're properly called bullet-resistant or ballistic vests these days for a reason. You can certainly get a vest that would stop most pistol bullets even at close range, but not all of them - e.g. something like TT 7.62x25 easily defeats class I and II vests.

      Furthermore, even if the vest stops the bullet, the force of impact is still hard enough to break bones, which would knock the breath out of any but the most determined attackers, given you the opportunity to flee (remember, the point of using a handgun in self-defense is to incapacitate or buy yourself time, not to kill - the latter is merely a side effect, not a goal).

      Finally, in practice, vests are expensive and bulky, so your chances of running into a criminal that actually wears one are very, very slim. In most real-world scenarios where the use of lethal force is necessary to defend yourself, a handgun will work just fine.

      your gun could jam

      Any mechanical or electronic device could jam or otherwise malfunction - so this applies to non-lethal weapons as well. However, guns have been perfected over the course of ages to the point where, today, they are extremely reliable. For handguns, in particular, there's always an option of carrying a revolver, which is nearly impossible to malfunction in a way that would render it inoperable - even if you get a failure to fire, you can just pull the trigger to rotate the drum and fire the next round, and there are no failures to feed or to eject because there's nothing to feed or to eject. The only thing that can fail is the trigger/rotation mechanism, which is very, very rare.

      they could be a better shot

      Maybe, but your chances are higher gun vs gun than they are with any sort of melee weapon vs a similar weapon, or bare hands vs pretty much anything. The nice thing about handguns is that they're pretty easy to learn to use efficiently for defensive purposes (which is drawing and unloading a magazine at the center of mass of your target at distances under 15 yards, basically), and they don't require being in good physical shape or regular exercise, so pretty much anyone can do it.

      Also, even if you use a non-lethal weapon, and even with stringent gun control, your assailant is still not unlikely to be carrying a gun - he's a criminal, so what does he care about liability (see UK for example: despite their crackdown on firearms, their use in crimes has been on the rise in recent years)? So you're just as likely to end up in a situation of facing a gun on the other side with your non-lethal weapon. Good luck with that.

      or you could just not want to spend 20-30 years in jail for defending yourself.

      In any country with sane laws, this should not be a concern.

      Heck, in the state in which I currently reside, not only lethal self-defense is a right protected by law, but you're even guaranteed that the state will reimburse your legal expenses if you're sued over killing or harming someone, and are found not guilty by virtue of it being legitimate self-defense.

    29. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by elucido · · Score: 1

      the point of using a handgun in self-defense is to incapacitate or buy yourself time, not to kill - the latter is merely a side effect, not a goal).

      If you're not prepared to kill in my opinion you shouldn't be carrying a gun. There is a time to kill in self defense but lets not pretend like a gun isn't designed to kill.

    30. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You misunderstood the point. A gun is by definition lethal, and effective self-defense techniques with a handgun are all highly lethal (center of mass is where most vital organs are). Nevertheless, the point of self-defense is not to kill a person attacking you. It's to quickly and efficiently make them a non-threat to you. This coincidentally carries a high risk of death to the attacker, but that's not the purpose of drawing the gun.

      Hence why, if the first shot incapacitates the attacker but he's still alive, shooting him again at that point (provided that you have time to clearly observe his state and conclude that he is not a threat anymore) is not legal. Similarly, if you draw a gun, and the guy just turns around and runs away, you can't shoot him - he's not threatening you anymore. On the other hand, of course, the idea of shooting at limbs and other non-vital parts initially is silly - you are more likely to miss, and if you hit, it is less likely to be an effective stopper.

    31. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by elucido · · Score: 1

      You misunderstood the point. A gun is by definition lethal, and effective self-defense techniques with a handgun are all highly lethal (center of mass is where most vital organs are). Nevertheless, the point of self-defense is not to kill a person attacking you. It's to quickly and efficiently make them a non-threat to you. This coincidentally carries a high risk of death to the attacker, but that's not the purpose of drawing the gun.

      Hence why, if the first shot incapacitates the attacker but he's still alive, shooting him again at that point (provided that you have time to clearly observe his state and conclude that he is not a threat anymore) is not legal. Similarly, if you draw a gun, and the guy just turns around and runs away, you can't shoot him - he's not threatening you anymore. On the other hand, of course, the idea of shooting at limbs and other non-vital parts initially is silly - you are more likely to miss, and if you hit, it is less likely to be an effective stopper.

      The point is if you don't kill the guy you don't have to fight it in court. Non-lethal weapons can stop a person without killing them.

    32. Re:Why is this considered a good thing? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The point is if you don't kill the guy you don't have to fight it in court

      That's not even remotely close to the truth. If you don't kill the guy but you still hurt him, it is assault and battery, which is definitely a crime - so you will still need to argue it in the court, unless it's clear-cut that it was self-defense.

      In fact, ironically, you're more likely to sued if your attacker survives in that case, because even if the state does not bring a criminal lawsuit against you, he can bring a civil lawsuit for damages.

      Non-lethal weapons can stop a person without killing them.

      I have repeatedly ask you to list those hypothetical non-lethal weapons that are efficient at stopping people without killing them, but so far you haven't named one.

  9. I would not post one more comment on this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    STOP! Entrapment, Lists, Oath Breakers. Go ahead fuck your life up. IDIOTS

    1. Re:I would not post one more comment on this by wiedzmin · · Score: 2

      Sounds like you should be posting in the 3D printed tinfoil hat thread.

      --
      Bow before me, for I am root.
  10. The right to bare arms shall not be infringed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But once you paint that gun, it's no longer nekked!

  11. Guns Are Hilarious! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But, see, they're both parts of a gun so the whole thing could explode and take out a school bus and a nursery and ten police officers at a moment's notice!

    Yep, guns are a joke and a laughing matter. Be sure to build your own at home and just try to eyeball the caliber of the pipe you use for the barrel. If the shell goes in, it'll probably work. Those 12 gauge and 20 gauge shotguns have interchangeable ammunition. Don't worry, it's not like they'll take out a school bus and a nursery and ten police officers at a moment's notice if it doesn't work.

    1. Re:Guns Are Hilarious! by logjon · · Score: 0

      What the fuck are you talking about?

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
    2. Re:Guns Are Hilarious! by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      How are guns any more dangerous than blenders?

    3. Re:Guns Are Hilarious! by MrNaz · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dude, have you SEEN what a Blendtech blender can do? Guns have nothing on that.

      --
      I hate printers.
    4. Re:Guns Are Hilarious! by The+Pirou · · Score: 1

      Department of the Army Technical Manual TM 31-210, Improvised Munitions Book.

      The 12 Gauge made from scratch starts on page 100 under Section 3, Number 2.

    5. Re:Guns Are Hilarious! by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      The joke was premised on "not distinguishing between different things is stupid". Your response is premised on the joke-teller not distinguishing. Nice work.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
  12. Just Bend an AK Out of a Shovel by ilikenwf · · Score: 1

    Of course, you'll still have to follow the retarded rule about having a certain percentage be American parts if in America, but hey...AK parts kits are cheap and not that hard to build.

    http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DIY-Shovel-AK-photo-tsunami-warning

  13. not that interesting or new by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Informative

    Because of the weapon's design, the receiver on an AR-15 is a notoriously easy part to produce, and has been possible to produce on low-end CNC mills for years. It's not in any way the most difficult part of the weapon to produce; it's just the outer housing within which the actual functional parts are located. Sort of like printing a computer case but not printing what goes inside the case.

    1. Re:not that interesting or new by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      Because of the weapon's design, the receiver on an AR-15 is a notoriously easy part to produce, and has been possible to produce on low-end CNC mills for years.

      And before that it was designed to be stamped -- very low cost for very high production rates.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    2. Re:not that interesting or new by darkmeridian · · Score: 1

      The importance of this is that the lower receiver on the AR-15 is the part that's considered the "firearm" for the purposes of federal law. Being able to print the lower receiver using an unregulated method means that you can buy the rest of the gun without too much of a hassle.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    3. Re:not that interesting or new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AR-15 lower receivers are not, and have never been made as a stamped part (expect maybe a few mad scientists making one-of-a-kind prototypes). Neither does the AK-47 (a real one that is, they used milled receivers). The guns that 99% of people call AK-47s are actually variants of the AKM, a cheapier replacement for the AK-47, which uses a stamped receiver.

    4. Re:not that interesting or new by mr1911 · · Score: 2

      AR-15 lower receivers are not, and have never been made as a stamped part (expect maybe a few mad scientists making one-of-a-kind prototypes). Neither does the AK-47 (a real one that is, they used milled receivers). The guns that 99% of people call AK-47s are actually variants of the AKM, a cheapier replacement for the AK-47, which uses a stamped receiver.

      I would have posted as an AC too if making such an uninformed statement. Google "M16 stamped receiver". You will be enlightened. Both the M16 and AK-47 were designed to have, and regularly produced with, stamped receivers. And before you argue the M16 and AR-15 are not the same thing, you should Google that too and make yourself even more familiar with the Stoner design.

      The Wikipedia reference might be a good place for you to start. It will be on the first page of your Google search.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    5. Re:not that interesting or new by backwardsposter · · Score: 1

      I disagree that it makes it less interesting. It could be the easiest gun in the world to produce, if it was the first one made by a 3D printer, I'd be interested in reading about it.

    6. Re:not that interesting or new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for admitting to your irrational fear of unregistered users, and nice attempt at a troll. Of course the Wiki page says nothing about your bold-face lie that Stoner tried to rip-off the US military by trying to disguise an inferior stamped metal product as a milled piece of aluminium. That never happened. As usual, the registered morons here prove themselves liars and idiots.

  14. Why 5.7x28? by swb · · Score: 1

    Why that round? It's not a rifle round (making the "printable rifle" really a "printable carbine") and it's not even a standard AR rifle round (which is traditionally 5.56x45, but the design is flexible..).

    I would think for initial builds you'd want to at least target the baseline round for an AR, 5.56x45, or if they really want to work out the bugs, 7.62x51 NATO, which is a much more powerful cartridge and thus making the design guaranteed to be backwards compatible (from a strength perspective) with 5.56x45.

    If they start with the really small cartridge like 5.7x28, their design won't scale up.

    And the 5.7 is a weird round to choose anyway. Apocryphally, it was designed to be some super high velocity round designed to defeat bullet resistant vests when you used the right ammo, which they stopped selling to consumers. I think it really was part of a whole paramilitary/protection system of weapons designed to replace the use of 9mm handguns and MP5 submachine guns.

    1. Re:Why 5.7x28? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually, it is a rifle round used in both the FiveseveN and P90 (and the lesser non-fully automatic PS-90).

    2. Re:Why 5.7x28? by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      I think they are more concerned with proving the thing will fire than having a rugged design at this point. The goal is to fire something and have it less likely to have it blow up in your face (literally). For that reason, they probably don't want to start with 5.56mm and particularly not 7.62mm rifle rounds.

      Of course, again, as has been pointed out, the lower receiver is probably not going to be challenged very much by what you fire.

    3. Re:Why 5.7x28? by swb · · Score: 1

      It's probably technically a "hybrid" round, more resembling a cut-down 5.56 case designed to fit/feed in a grip-magazine automatic handgun.

      Saying that it's a rifle round based on it's use in the bullpup carbine P90 is like saying the .44 Special is a rifle round because you can fire it in a lever action Winchester.

    4. Re:Why 5.7x28? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Niether of those is are rifles.
      Nor is it a rifle round.

    5. Re:Why 5.7x28? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're telling me the P90 isn't a rifle? The ATF would like to have a word with you. As for the FiveseveN, it's a pistol using a rifle round.

      That's all the 5.7x28 is. A shortened rifle round.

    6. Re:Why 5.7x28? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      The p90 is not a rifle, it is a pdw/submachine gun.

      No the FiveseveN is using a pdw round.

      Bullshit, it is an overhyped pistol round.

    7. Re:Why 5.7x28? by Quila · · Score: 1

      It's a great round for this test if

      1) You want to use a standard AR15 barrel
      2) You want lower chamber pressure and less recoil since this is your first try with plastic and are afraid it might blow apart

      It's not that high-velocity, actually less than most 5.56x45 ammo. What it is, is higher velocity than handgun rounds in the submachinegun market for which it was intended.

      But the real cool reason is based on a basic fact of ammunition: The caliber stated is often incorrect. Both the 5.56 and the 5.7 have an exact bullet diameter of 5.7mm, so they can use a regular barrel with lower-powered ammunition.

  15. Excuse to ban or lciense up the ass . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is going to bite the maker community in the ass.

    Polictian looking for votes on the Fear platform: "Hey Look at THIS! These 3-D printing machines are being used to make plastic GUNS! Guns that can go through a security scanner!! Terrorists will use this to kill your children!!"

    John Q. Public will not go and investigate this on their own. They will not see that the barrel needs to be metal. Or that the ammunition is metal. Nooooo. They'll jump on board and give the politician the backing to ban 3-D printing or license it to the point where it's too expensive to Joe inventor or hacker.

    Couldn't he have used the 3-D printing for a custom case or something?

    A gun?!

    Fucking A.

  16. this is a huge improvement by HPHatecraft · · Score: 1

    over the previous version of the printer which only printed a 2D version of an AR-15.

    One of the main problems with the earlier version is that, when trying to load the printed rifle, the bullets just seems to roll right off.

    Also, paper cuts were a problem.

  17. if there's anything we need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's more guns

  18. I downloaded a car. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm posting from the future here, and I just wanted to say that printing an AR-15 is a total newb move. In 2043, if you've got 1337 skillz, you torrent and print your own aircraft carrier.

    1. Re:I downloaded a car. by vlm · · Score: 1

      Agreed a computer generated AR-15 lower is a total newb move. A 1337 skillz print would be a full auto sear. Now THAT will piss everyone off and stir an anthill.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:I downloaded a car. by PPH · · Score: 1

      I'm posting from your future and I have to say aircraft are the noob move. What with the 4.2 GW laser pointers available at the 7-11 checkout aisle.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:I downloaded a car. by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      I'm posting from the future here, and I just wanted to say that printing an AR-15 is a total newb move. In 2043, if you've got 1337 skillz, you torrent and print your own aircraft carrier.

      So tempting to get that on Kickstarter just to see how much money could be raised before people clue in.

      P. T. Barnum anyone?

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    4. Re:I downloaded a car. by logjon · · Score: 0

      I think I just heard the sound of the Brady bunch having a collective stroke.

      --
      The stories and info posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
      Only fools would take it as fact.
  19. Pretty brave (read: dumb) way to test a gun by eyegor · · Score: 1

    While the lower receiver doesn't see the kind of stresses that are present in the upper receiver and bolt carrier, the lower receiver failed exactly where it sees the most real stress. As the bolt carrier moves backwards during the ejection phase of the cycle, it compresses the buffer spring and that stress plus the stress caused by the stock attachment was more than the lower could handle.

    Personally, whenever I test fire a gun, I put it in an appropriate test jig and make sure I'm clear from any likely failure. I don't think his gun would have blown up, but if the lower failed just as the bolt carrier began moving rearward, it's likely that the carrier and upper would have been damaged and things would have gotten interesting.

    I shot an conventionally made AR-15 that suffered a catastrophic failure of the bolt lugs and in spite of the bolt carrier coming back much faster than normal, everything held together just fine. If such an event happened with a printed plastic lower, it's likely that the gun would have been damaged badly.

    I've seen prices on 3d printing for metal and the prices to render a standard lower receiver would have greatly exceeded the cost of buying a conventionally manufactured one.

    --

    Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
    1. Re:Pretty brave (read: dumb) way to test a gun by vlm · · Score: 1

      I've seen prices on 3d printing for metal and the prices to render a standard lower receiver would have greatly exceeded the cost of buying a conventionally manufactured one.

      The "fun" with 3-d printing seems to be mash up. Next up the "hello kitty" themed AR-15 lower. Yes I've seen pink 1022s, but I'm talking about full on copyright violation ar15 lowers. Or a lower with a goatse themed trigger guard.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Pretty brave (read: dumb) way to test a gun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going into business making bootleg Grateful Dead themed combination lowers/hash pipes (barrel heat). Perhaps with built in pot grinders (civil war coffee grinder style), though I suppose that belongs in the stock.

    3. Re:Pretty brave (read: dumb) way to test a gun by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      I've seen prices on 3d printing for metal and the prices to render a standard lower receiver would have greatly exceeded the cost of buying a conventionally manufactured one.

      Hobbies are rarely concerned about the cost efficiency factor.. Its about 'doing it yourself'.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  20. zombies are coming, bar the doors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    zombies are coming, bar the doors! we still need 8 hours to finish printing our single gun...

  21. someone's bound to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ob: "everyone posting in this story has a tiny penis" post

    oops.

  22. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by wiedzmin · · Score: 1

    It's not illegal to manufacture your own firearms in US.

    --
    Bow before me, for I am root.
  23. Why not go all plastic and tone down the lethality by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

    Yeah, you can't make the other parts out of plastic because of the pressure from the round, but you could reduce the pressure and projectile speed making it a lot less lethal but still usable for targets and defense. There really isn't much between paintball/airsoft and lethal firearms. I wonder if there would be a market for people wanting something like that.

  24. NEWS FLASH!! by kuhnto · · Score: 2

    Area man uses CNC machine and metalsmithing lathe to build a gun! Complete with Barrel, upper and lower receiver!

    --
    "A 'person' is smart. 'People' are dumb, panicky animals and you know that."
    1. Re:NEWS FLASH!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was just thinking this...

      How is this any different than using a CNC machine and a lathe?

      When you consider that the two most popular and effective handguns (the Colt Peacemaker and Colt 1911) were both made before CNC, before plastic, and before thermal printing, you would think that this isn't that much of a big deal. How big of a problem could this be when 3D printers cost thousands of dollars.

      I could probably go to Lowes and buy a length of pipe, a spring, a nail and a sliding door bolt and make a gun with about $20 and have something that is somewhat functional in about 10 minutes.

    2. Re:NEWS FLASH!! by markw365 · · Score: 1

      The pipe/nail is called a zipgun and is "illegal" in some states. If you google, you'll find John Moses Brownings workshop. It's pretty basic and he developed the 1911 from scratch there. With CNC's it's not hard to make a real firearm and with the AR, the only thing with "paper" or background check is the lower receiver. I know tons of people who have "rolled' their own, and have done it legally. Heck, an AK47 can be made with hand tools and a hydraulic press.

  25. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    All this 'gun printing' talk is what's going to be used to help get 3dprinters banned or require a license to even buy/own. it's going to have controls slapped on it somewhere.

    Stop fucking telling people that doing this shit guys. Until they are everywhere they are way easy to regulate and control.

    You're not helping. serious.

    Dear AC who cannot form a cogent sentence:
    We refer you to the response given in Arkell v. Pressdram.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  26. Just what the world needed... by H0p313ss · · Score: 0

    ... more cheap guns.

    --
    XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    1. Re:Just what the world needed... by Libertarian_Geek · · Score: 1

      Do you imply that it would be better if only the wealthy (and criminals who steal their guns) could afford them?

      --

      www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights

      www.fairtax.org
    2. Re:Just what the world needed... by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't worry about this being a source of cheap guns considering that you can get a real gun that actually works and shoots a powerful round for about $90 +tax. Granted that firearm would be a Russian M91/30 or M44 and would shoot the 7.62x54r cartridge but those are still more potent and probably more accurate than the stupid thing these guys are trying to make. If you really wanted a handgun you can cut down the barrel on one of those M91/30s or M44s and chop the stock like what was done during WWII by some resistance fighters who then had a bolt action pistol.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    3. Re:Just what the world needed... by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      I am saying that more weapons are a benefit to nobody except those selling them.

      If I'm implying anything it's "If you're stupid enough to try to use a 3D printer to make a weapon, and then use it, then I don't trust you with weapons."

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    4. Re:Just what the world needed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say it would be better if only trained professionals (policemen, soldiers etc.), who use them responsibly and from who they would be difficult to steal, would be able to obtain guns.

    5. Re:Just what the world needed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am saying that more weapons are a benefit to nobody except those selling them.

      There's a website with a series of news stories as evidence to the contrary. http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/

      I also believe that citizen disarmament was key to the holocaust. Hitler would have had a much more difficult time had the population been armed.

      Criminals will make weapons. It's what they do; crime. There are weapons all around. Sticks, rocks, gasoline. Don't try to remove weapons from the world because it's only going to further unbalance the monopoly of violence towards those who would use it for evil. Instead, try to remove evil from the world.

      Self-defense does just that.

      If I'm implying anything it's "If you're stupid enough to try to use a 3D printer to make a weapon, and then use it, then I don't trust you with weapons."

      Law-abiding citizens with weapons (guns, knives, cars, hammers, pitchforks, etc) are only dangerous to the innocent when uninformed. But so too are voters.

    6. Re:Just what the world needed... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      7.62x54 is a serious round. Comparable to 30-06.

      Draganov shoots 7.62x54.

      The pistol would likely break your wrist.

      Vasily Zaytsev killed 225 Germans with a M91/30.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:Just what the world needed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    8. Re:Just what the world needed... by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      I never said it that 7.62x54 doesn't pack a punch (it does especially with 203 grain soft points and the steel butt plate on those rifles) or that chopping one down was a good idea but it has been done in the past. There are also modern handguns that fire comparable rounds like the .500 Winchester magnum or the larger Thompson Contenders that shoot .30-06 or .308 but I don't think these are intended to be shot using one hand as I imagine the chopped Mosin-Nagents were either.

      As far as impressive use of a Mosin-Nagent rifle you might want to check out the Finnish sniper Simo Hayha who has 505 confirmed sniper kills using a M28/30 (Finnish variant of the Mosin-Nagent). While Vasily Zaytsev achievements were notable and he became the poster child for Russian snipers Fyodor Okhlopkov, Ivan Sidorenko, and Lyudmila Pavlichenko (most successful female sniper ever) exceeded Zaytsev's count.

      --
      Time to offend someone
  27. Re:Why not go all plastic and tone down the lethal by sureshot007 · · Score: 1

    Even the pressure necessary for match grade air rifles would be too much for plastics. That is, if you want any real accuracy.

  28. Common Carrier analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Telecoms were generally exempt from liability/responsibility for things said by callers under a "common carrier" theory - they didn't monitor or censor conversations, and so weren't responsible for what was said. (You could argue recent copy infringement actions by ISP's is breaking this theory and opening a whole world of potential liability for ISP's to what's on their networks, but that's an argument for another day).

    I think Stratasys has really set themselves up for some potential liability here by repossessing their machine (by effectively rejecting any cover of a common-carrier-like theory.) By monitoring what their customers are doing and taking action, it seems like they're effectively accepting responsibility for knowing what their customers are printing, and the responsibility to take action against those who it deems are acting illegally.

    That's a terribly precedent for them to set. What happens when one of their customers prints something that someone else holds a patent on? What happens when someone prints an unlicensed replica of a copyrighted cartoon carrier? IANAL, but it seems like Stratasys just put themselves on the hook for a bottomless bit of lawsuits...

  29. This is getting way more hype than it needs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Home CNC are getting more popular too, and you can make real guns in there entirety, a 3d printed AR-15 Lower receiver is pretty boring,

    I've always thought the registered part should be the barrelled chamber and or upper receiver, thats the actual hard part to make.

    More importantly people have been making home made guns for hundreds of years, now they have a tool to make it slightly more precisely this changes nothing just a bunch of pussy city folk all worked up over nothing

  30. Re:Why not go all plastic and tone down the lethal by GigsVT · · Score: 1

    They've made barrels that are a sleeve of fairly thin metal wrapped in fiberglass before. I think it was mostly a gimmick and never caught on though. That'd probably be the minimum amount of metal you could get away with in theory, a sleeve for the chamber and rifling, wrapped up with reinforcement.

    --
    I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  31. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by cffrost · · Score: 1

    All this 'gun printing' talk is what's going to be used to help get 3dprinters banned or require a license to even buy/own. it's going to have controls slapped on it somewhere.

    Stop fucking telling people that doing this shit guys. Until they are everywhere they are way easy to regulate and control.

    You're not helping. serious.

    Yeah, guys, quit exercising your first and second amendment rights before we're not allowed to exercise them anymore.

    --
    Thank you, Edward Snowden.

    "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
  32. Unstoppable idiocy? Gun-printing kiosks ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first victims are going to be pre-teens and teens who print a gun and fire it into their classmates.
    At which point we might finally get some decent penalties for unlicensed gun *use*.
    Or maybe Americans really need do gun-printing kiosks on every street corner?

    1. Re:Unstoppable idiocy? Gun-printing kiosks ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've got it all wrong. The first victims will obviously be babies. And kittens and puppies. And OMG BABY SEALS!!!

  33. So nice to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Such effort being put into making deadly weapons more accessible to the neighbourhood whack jobs.

    If there's any justice in the world the truncated-2nd-amendment quoting nimrods who are behind this affront to civilization will be among the victims in one of the upcoming, inevitable massacres it will be used in.

    I'll start believing this is about rights when the douche-tards start seriously advocating private nuclear weapons ownership. Anything short of that means it's about the sick fun and power implications of owning boom sticks.

    1. Re:So nice to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know why the feds are so worried about private nukes. They have thousands, I've only got three. (kidding feds)

  34. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WTF does a 3d printer have to do with a well regulated milita?

    Are you going to print soldier men?

    That's what the 2nd amendment talks about, right? It gives all Americans the right to form a well regulated milita, correct?

  35. ignorant panic by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

    A busted beer bottle can be a weapon, or just a busted bottle. It all depends on the responsibility of the person holding it.

    It makes no sense to me to panic about printing a firearm, or pieces of it, when I know any dumbass could just as likely run me over with his/her car while texting on their phone. Point is, address the problem of bad decision making instead. Running around making prohibitions just causes people to be more sneaky about obtaining said item anyway.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
    1. Re:ignorant panic by Required+Snark · · Score: 1
      You are completely disconnected from the real world, which is typical of gun owners. Here are real statistics from the LA Times homicide tracking page. http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/map/

      Homicides: Jan. 1, 2007 to Nov. 10, 2012

      Blunt force 246

      Gunshot 3,227

      Other 192

      Stabbing 438

      Strangled 47

      Unspecified 99

      Even if all the Other and Unspecified were done by "beer bottles", they would only total 6.9% of the total. Stabbing, which is the second largest category, are 10.3%. Guns are 75.9% of the total. In the real world, guns are used in homicide three times out of four. These numbers ignore suicide and accidental gun deaths, which would make the gun death numbers even larger.

      Gun homicides in Great Britten vs. the US http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/335-156/12554-58-murders-a-year-by-firearms-in-britain-8775-in-us

      Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2010: 8,775

      Number of Murders, Britain, 2011*: 638 (Since Britain's population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,095 US murders)

      Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2011*: 58 (equivalent to 290 US murders)

      Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain, 2011*: 2 (equivalent to 10 US murders).

      The international comparisons show conclusively that fewer gun owners per capita produce not only fewer murders by firearm, but fewer murders per capita overall.

      In the case of Britain, firearms murders are 30 times fewer than in the US per capita.

      * British crime statistics are September to September, so 2011 is actually 2010-2011.

      If I fear for my life because of someone with a beer bottle, it's because they are drinking and driving. So who is responding with "ignorant panic"?

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
  36. op cit by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 2

    The hood is part of the structural strength of the vehicle.

    Citation required.

    I occasionally see vehicles with no hood whatsoever (or having an obviously fiberglass part, pinned down). I have yet to see any of them surrounded by angry tin stars, with the owner on the ground, trussed up like a chicken.

  37. AR-15 lower receiver failure will not explode LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The person firing the weapon may perhaps lose grip of the weapon but the upper receiver is doing all the work. Anyone with a shred of AR-15 knowledge knows this. As for failure after firing merely six rounds, that is completely pathetic. It's not as if the test was using a safari Nitro round or 50 BMG. I am assuming the test involved 5.56 x 45 NATO ammo which is an extremely light round or perhaps they used .223 which is almost identical.

    They have a long, loong, looong, very loooong way to go before it works. Keep up the good work and keep trying new materials.

  38. Lots of guns are plastic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what's so special about this one besides being poorly made?

  39. What about CNC'd guns? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not sure why you'd want to print a plastic lower when it's easier and better to CNC one.....unless the 3D printer printed the internal mechanics as well.

  40. These guys just want the PR by Animats · · Score: 1

    This is a PR stunt. It's not like guns are expensive or hard to get in the US. It's not good engineering, either. If you're going to design a plastic gun, design a plastic gun, accepting that it's weaker than metal but you can form more complex parts. Maybe the whole trigger assembly can be made in one piece, with flexible parts. Replacing individual parts from a metal gun with inferior plastic parts is a PR stunt.

    3D printed plastic parts tend to be weaker than injection-moulded plastic parts. The bonds between layers are weak. For the RepRap/MakerBot extruder type machines, the bonds are pathetically weak. Those machine work by trying to weld a hot thing to a cold thing. That never bonds well.

    1. Re:These guys just want the PR by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Of course it's a lot of attention grabbing, but don't we all?

      That said I can see uses for a self-made, completely plastic gun. Even one that lasts for only a few shots. It's just hard to come with legitimate uses.

      It'd be a great murder weapon. Self-made, so hard to trace back to an individual. Plastic is hard to detect, so useful for e.g. airline hijackings or getting it through a metal detector. The bullets may be more of an issue to smuggle in, though. That it breaks after a few shots is not so important, that it's not too accurate also doesn't matter much in close quarters.

  41. Oh no, they didn't! by uradu · · Score: 1

    Let's revisit that:

    "...with the purpose of creating an open-source gun [...] that can be downloaded from the internet and printed out."

    Right, because what's really holding back modern society is this frustrating lack of weapons availability. I can hardly wait for 3D nano printers so EVERYBODY can download their own Ebola virus from the internet and print it at home!

    1. Re:Oh no, they didn't! by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      I second that. Less guns = less gun violance. Tigther guns laws also = less gun violance. Numbers where posted a month or so ago about gun violance in the world. The numbers proved that number of guns and gun laws were directly impacting the number of murders by gun.

      This is a perfect example where authorities being able to shut down such online projects would benefit everybody.

    2. Re:Oh no, they didn't! by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      What's the point of living if you aren't free? I guarantee you will be completely safe from accidents and violence in a solitary confinement cell in San Quentin if that's the kind of life you'd prefer. Easiest way to get there is to shoot someone dead.

    3. Re:Oh no, they didn't! by markw365 · · Score: 1

      It's violence. Tighter gun laws disarm people who would only use a gun to save their lives. Some of the tightest "gun laws" in the US are in Chicago. I hear it's pretty save to walk the streets there. :) Thinking that outlawing something is going to get rid of it is foolish. I didn't work for alcohol, it's not working for drugs, and it won't work for guns. All it does is disarms law biding citizens. The last time I checked, law biding citizens weren't commiting these crimes. If you want the real stats, go here: http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/welcome.htm . This article talks about an AR15, which is almost never used in a crime. In fact rifles in general account for something like only 2% of firearms homicides. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl20.xls

      So please, before the feel good "more gun laws == less gun violence" take a look at some numbers.
      The problem is crime, not guns, and that's a human problem. Victim disarmament does nothing to prevent the crime, other than skewing the odds greatly in favor of the criminal.

  42. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No
    First off the Constitution doesn't grant any rights it is a reaffirmation of natural rights and then it places a limit on governmental power.

    The Second Amendment is about the right to keep and bear arms

  43. SME? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since when is taking a gun saftey course make some one a SME on the matter. Go take a gun smithing course and you'll see how silly your argument really is!

  44. molecular manufacturing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I first read an article about molecular manufacturing way back in the 1990s (when I first started seeing nanotechnology articles), I thought this would never happen. Our last industrial revolution introduced quicker methods of assembling objects by parts. On the other hand, molecular manufacturing is building the object atom-by-atom using nanoscopic self-replicating assemblers... such objects were said to be *perfect* replicas of the design.

    What they're doing with 3D printers now-a-days is not molecular manufacturing but it's as close as we've gotten. It's assembling on a much higher-scale level. This is so exciting. While these gun parts failed after 6 shots, we're still getting so close to the point where you download just about any design and "print" a copy of it in your own home. HOW COOL!!

  45. Depends by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Is is just the stripped lower that is plastic, or is it the whole thing including the buffer tube?

    Remember that tube that the stock attaches to isn't just for that, it contains the recoil spring and buffer. The bolt carrier flies back against the buffer, in to that tube, and is then pushed back in to position by the spring. If it broke, you could get a face/arm full of spring and so on.

  46. His point still stands by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    It isn't a plastic gun any more than any other gun that has a plastic receiver is. The barrel, chamber, bolt, firing pin, hammer, etc, etc, etc are all still metal. This "OMG WE CAN PRINT A GUN!!!!11one" stuff is stupid.

    Yes, you can make the receiver, the low stress part, out of plastic. Big deal, this has happened for a long time. The barrel and chamber are the parts that face stress. Try that and see how it goes... But fire it remotely if you value your face n' fingers.

  47. Can Someone Please Mod Parent Up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's an awful lot of stupid going on in this thread that this one post would solve.

  48. They Laughed at Einstein, Too. by NicknamesAreStupid · · Score: 1

    Until Leo Szilard made him famous. You can argue about a theorem, but you can't argue with a nuke. When the next Leo prints an AR-15 and shoots his critics, then Gutenburg will be as glorious as Einstein, and nobody will fuck with a publisher. Someday, they will have a printer that can build an Abrams M1A2. Of course, that tank will be a rare antique by then, but I'll be the first to order one.

    1st Amendment meets 2nd Amendment, and they kick ass - William Randolph Hearst had wet dreams about this.

  49. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The 2nd amendment says

    'A well regulated militia, being essential to the security of a free state, ...'

    By my reading, the 'right of the people to bear arms' existed so that people could form well regulated militias. Gun collecting and assertions of a fundamental 'right to bear arms' seem like a pretty clear abuse of the intent of the 2nd amendment.

    The natural right is not to bear arms but to have a defense against those who would unjustly do one harm. It is part of the right to life.

    If the state provides sufficient protection from harm, then you have no implicit right to carry a gun to achieve the same purpose. Since you carrying that gun creates an implicit risk for others, then it is sensible for the state to restrict your ability to carry guns as long as the state protects you from criminals and foreign armies.

    This is the international norm, anyway. This is one area in which the US is an outlier.

  50. Seriously, what's with the article plagiarism!? by Dahamma · · Score: 1

    The post is almost an exact cut and paste of the first 4 paragraphs of the ExtremeTech article, with "we" (Extremetech) replaced by "Slashdot" and a phrase in the first sentence replaced by a link to the original article.

    A subtle hyperlink does not equal an attribution - the /. post doesn't even mention ExtremeTech by name, just copies 2/3 of the article. Lame!

  51. Plastic Lowers are already available. by markw365 · · Score: 1

    There are already polymer lower receivers out there. http://www.lw15.com/ is one. I prefer to machine my lower receivers out of an 80% completed block of aluminium. I'm not seeing why everyone is up in arms (punny) over this. :) It's legal to make your own firearm.

  52. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    +1 fucking brilliant

  53. Of course it's going to fail by Aphrika · · Score: 1

    It's made of plastic, using the template for a metal part.

    both materials have different strengths and weaknesses. I'd imagine that a part redesigned to take into account the material would work better.

  54. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    The whole concept of "natural rights" is moronic. Dominance and control is natural; humans organize themselves hierarchically to that end, accepting dominance and control from something they can tolerate. That's why we have police who have power over us--they prevent us from murdering each other so we don't have to fear murder. Even with the ENTIRELY ARTIFICIAL RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH, actual civilization resists it instead of supporting it: speaking your mind can get you socially rejected or killed in the night. At the very least you won't have any friends if you're a vocal Obama supporter in south Texas, which has large social consequences. That's why it's artificial: the entire species fights to keep the natural order of suppressing undesirable ideals, and punishes those who voice those ideals.

  55. Canadian firearms rules are different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Canada its the lower that's a restricted item, the upper is not. No matter I can't really see anything useful coming out of this project

    1. Re:Canadian firearms rules are different by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It's the lower in America too. But we are still free people.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  56. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by fermion · · Score: 1
    What is going to get 3D printers banned is the ability to make small plastic parts to repair expensive household appliances and cars for $30 instead of paying $100.

    Or the ability to print custom Disney products without paying a license fee. This a Millennium Falcon.

    The fake 2nd amendment promoter, think the NRA, will go after this because it will be a way for them to make their toys while keeping the real weapons that might defend our liberty off limits.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  57. Stratays vs Objet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DefDist has now obtained a 3D printer from Objet, which seemingly has a more libertarian mindset.

    Except Stratasys bought Objet.

  58. Authentic experience by kimvette · · Score: 1

    Wow, that is an authentic experience - it even jams just like the real thing! ;)

    just kidding. I like the AR-15. It is prone to jamming though. :-(

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  59. Stratasys just bought Objet by HonestButCurious · · Score: 1

    It was finalised yesterday:

    http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000803148

    I guess that means they'll have to get another printer in a few days.

  60. Printed gun material by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who cares what the printed gun is made out of? Use the printed piece to make a sand mold and mold metal pieces from it.

  61. Absurd! by Paracelcus · · Score: 2

    Some poor bastard in a village blacksmith shop who can't read or write can produce AK47 clones day in, day out, that work!
    Unless somebody "prints" a REAL rifle (one that can fire thousands of rounds of a useful cartridge (7.62x51) without a major failure I call this just more kids indulging in mental masturbation, trying to entertain themselves.

    --
    I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
  62. Americans are scary by coljac · · Score: 1

    That's all I really wanted to say. Thanks.

    --
    Everyone knows that damage is done to the soul by bad motion pictures. -Pope Pius XI
  63. Re:Why not go all plastic and tone down the lethal by Shagg · · Score: 1

    There really isn't much between paintball/airsoft and lethal firearms. I wonder if there would be a market for people wanting something like that.

    There is... air rifles.

    --
    Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
  64. Geez guys take it easy! by Grand+Facade · · Score: 1

    This just a proof of concept exercise....

    Hay! I betcha $20 I can print a gun!

    "Will it blend?"

    --
    Rick B.
  65. Bad wiki by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If only he'd used his 3-D printer for niceness instead of evil!

  66. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by modecx · · Score: 1

    A fairly smart guy once said "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have..." If the state provides you sufficient protection from harm, you're almost certainly in a padded cell, whether or not your delusions allow you to recognize it as such, and because of this your life is as tenuous as the whims of the person who holds the key.

    Yeah, no thanks, I'll keep my liberty; damn the international norm.

    --
    Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
  67. I'm Gonna Tell Obama!!! by Baldrson · · Score: 1

    Populists!!!

  68. Oh good, more guns by musth · · Score: 3

    Fantastic way to invest time and passion. The world, especially the US, needs MORE GUNS.

    Idiots.

  69. Terrible caliber? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... also 5.7x28 is a terrible calibre. Its pistol ammo, that at best has the knockdown and kick of 9mm, and at worst is an expensive non-standard cartridge. Its far overhyped, and far overrated.

    The 5.7x28 was designed by FNH as part of a competition to develop a new NATO military round. NATO has some interesting requirements, including the idea that if a combatant receives a survivable wound one or two fellow combatants will be required to carry the injured party to medical attention. This at least temporarily reduces the number of combatants. While the 5.7x28 was not chosen by NATO it has been chosen by quite a few military and law enforcement agencies around the world.

    The 5.7x28 round was originally presented for consideration with the FNH P90 full automatic short barreled rifle. Following that FNH designed the PS90, a semi-auto carbine. The P90 will empty a 50 round magazine in very short order. Several years after those weapons were introduced the FNH Five-seveN semi-auto pistol was introduced. All of these weapons use polymer extensively, though all critical parts are metal.

    Armor piercing rounds are available for military and law enforcement use. They are designed to poke a modest hole after penetrating body armor. Civilian rounds like the Hornady V-Max tend to yield a 4+ inch pear shaped wound cavity in ballistic gel. I don't want to stand in front of one.

    As to the round's effectiveness, perhaps Muammar Gaddafi should be consulted. Oh wait, his 5.7 injuries were quite fatal. Ok, how about the Fort Hood shootings? Again, the Five-seveN was used, presumably because the round is fast and accurate, plus the gun uses 20 round magazines with extensions available to allow the magazine to hold 30 rounds. It worked altogether too well.

    Yes, there are arm chair shooters who disparage this round. Experience has, none the less, shown the 5.7 to be quite effective. It's also a lot of fun to shoot. Low recoil, fast, and accurate. It would seem to be a very good choice for an initial experiment with a printed AR receiver.

  70. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The truth of it though is that at the end of the day you have to trust government, and government has to trust you, in order for the day-to-day stuff to work. Sure, it means leaving yourself open to more risk; if some hitleresque person actually tires to gain power then you'll have left the state more avenues to control you. But in exchange for that you get pragmatic solutions to everyday problems. From the Government's POV, if the population will always distrust it and will always counter its moves, no matter how benign, then it will simply get better at hiding the nature of any potentially controversial laws and feel no remorse about doing so because the people will hate it no matter what it does anyway.

    Gun control, for example, is at one level pragmatic; all else being equal, it's safer to have fewer guns than more. Sure, you have to trust the government not to go Nazi, but in exchange for that you'll get a criminal population that's far less likely to carry guns and little Johnny will be less likely to accidentally shoot his foot with the family .45.

    And, in the end, if you spend all your time worried about Hitleresque edge cases and weird scenarios like being put in a padded cell (to what? keep you from seeing the sun? why?), you'll lose sight of the petty tyrannies that crop up.

  71. It's great for its purpose by Quila · · Score: 1

    It was designed to have a light personal defense round that is capable of piercing body armor, and that can be fired full-auto controllably.

    Enter the gun designed for it, the FN P90. It's small (10" shorter than an M4 carbine, but the barrel is only 4" shorter), holds a lot of ammo (with 50 rounds it weighs five ounces less than an M4 with 30), and the whole magazine can be emptied at once on full-auto while staying in a 10" group at 50 meters. And you get a companion pistol that holds 20 rounds in a standard grip, and is still armor-piercing.

    That's a pretty awesome deal for personal defense. Note personal defense, not assault. The average soldier whose regular job is not fighting (truck driving, tank driving, etc), or bodyguard, can have this with 200 rounds total and still be under ten pounds of gear.

    But the transition to civilian life didn't work too well. We don't get full auto, and the armor-piercing rounds are illegal. It is a superb round, but the two main reasons for this its existence just don't apply in the civilian world.

  72. Sten Gun by Quila · · Score: 1

    The British Sten submachine gun was designed so that it could be made with the metalworking skills and tooling of a good bicycle shop in something like five hours. Small shops all over the country were making them for the war effort.

    And that's with 1930s machining technology.

  73. Re:STOP DOING THIS! by Roachie · · Score: 1

    This is a -1 ? Seriously?

    This is a nascent technology and already people are all like: "Oooh! lets make a machine gun!". Case-in-point: in the TFA they manufactured what is considered the "controlled component" of the weapon. Now this is typically above the head of the uninitiated but what it means is they manufactured the regulated part of the weapon, the lower receiver, all other parts are considered accessories.

    I'm counting the days until 20/20 has an expose on "homemade weapons of mass destruction".

    "With one of these inexpensive devices you can produce an automatic assault rifle just as easily as printing our your aunt Mary's cheesecake recipe"

    Gun culture people... you are going to have to decide what you like more... your 3D printer or your Darth Vader rifle.

    --
    This sig is not paradoxical or ironic.
  74. Of course it was a stunt by Quila · · Score: 1

    A lot of people do worthless things just to see if they can do it, especially us geeks.

    Cost of a 3D printer, $$$$
    Cost of 3D material, probably $$$
    Cost of a polymer AR-15, $50

  75. Dear USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In a great many countries, we enjoy being able walk around without the risk of being shot - because no one has guns! For the most part we think you are a pack of backward cranks in this regard, but don't mind too much if you want to shoot each other. BUT PLEASE KEEP THIS NONSENSE TO YOURSELVES!