Slashdot Mirror
Congressional Committee Casts a Harsh Eye On Vaccination Science
The Bad Astronomer writes "A recent hearing of the Congressional Committee on Oversight and Government Reform became a bully pulpit for antivaccination rhetoric when Representatives Dan Burton (R-Ind.) and Dennis Kucinich (D-Oh.) made speeches connecting vaccines to autism — a connection that medical experts have shown does not exist. Although there were actual medical researchers there as witnesses, they were mostly berated by the Congressmen on the panel. Vaccines are one of the most successful medical advancements in human history, having saved hundreds of millions of lives, and after copious studies have been shown to have no connection with autism. Despite this, a vocal antivax lobby exists, including, clearly, members of Congress. In part this is why preventable and potentially fatal diseases like pertussis and measles are once again on the rise."
Enough said...
Pundits have been asking how we can overcome the deadlock in congress, and finally get things done.
Now we know. There is full bipartisanship on stupidity.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Queue the anti vaccine crazies in 5.4.3.2.1...
Foot placed squarely in mouth since 1983.
Let their brats die, and there will be fewer idiots about in a genberation.
What next? Jenny McCarthy and the doctor who carried out the fradulent study that started this madness get called as expert witnesses?
Didn't a recent study connect autism with flu during pregnancy? Hasn't the vaccine angle been debunked?
The US electoral system runs on corporate money. Corporate money prefers politicians that can be manipulated. In some cases you get the direct results of the manipulation, in other cases you get the results because the politicians are not fact driven.
There is full bipartisanship on stupidity, and it is because the system is broken.
This is mostly a side note, but I grew up in Dan Burton's district. He has a grandson with autism and has made the anti-vaccination a personal cause. That's not to excuse his ignorance, but rather to help provide understanding. Powerful emotions are at work here, which is why confronting them with rational logic will not work. To be honest, I wish his constituents would vote him out of office; his district includes a number of employees at the pharmaceutical company Eli Lilly (headquartered in Indy) and his anti-vaccination stance puts him at odds with their best interests.
At least they're well represented in congress
Maybe someday we can back in time and prevent these people from receiving vaccines as children, and hopefully they won't survive long enough to become politicians.
"Congressional Committee Casts a Harsh Eye On Vacation Science" and though it was a right-wing conspiracy to outlaw paid time-off.
Anti-vaccination rhetoric is nothing new... in fact at the turn of the 20th century there were huge struggles regarding the smallpox vaccine. It's a fascinating instance of the struggle between liberty and social responsibility and the rights and the responsibilties of the individual with respect to the state.
There's an amazing book about the early-20th-century smallpox vaccination campaigns and the associated anti-vaccination campaign called Pox: An American History.
I can't recommend it enough. Says so much about the United States and how people's opinions have change (and how for some, they haven't!).
Anyway, here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/Pox-American-History-Penguin-Life/dp/1594202869
Nothing to worry:
These quacks don't vaccinate their kids.
Most in the same camp don't want general healthcare.
Give this combination some 10-20 years, and the Grim Reaper will darwinize the gene pool.
Problem solved.
Also fixes the number of folks in population who appreciate what Darwin has proven.
These people annoy me more than rabid moon landing denyers.
The people that believe the autism link, are really out there. I've seen interviews with people that believe this, and no matter what facts/figures/papers you put in front of them they believe they are wrong or lies. Yet they're sure the one report they heard about or read is 100% the truth.
What's more aggravating is when they invite you to prove them wrong, PLEASE prove them wrong, I don't want this to be true and don't want to fear this. Then someone does, and that same person just ignore them.
Penn and Teller had a great episode about this on Bull Sh*t. It's quite insane.
I mean, I have an easier time understanding people that believe the moon landing was a hoax. I don't subscribe to that theory, but I can at least understand them. It was a big deal, we really only have the government's say-so that it happened and that they didn't just send a probe to land stuff. Just 1 source: the government. Fine, be paranoid. It's not really hurting anyone if a person doesn't believe we landed on the moon.
But these people, they have tons of independent studies, investigations, saying that the link was faked or just plain wrong It would be one thing if just ONE party was saying the autism link was bunk... but we have LOTS of different / independent / smart people debunking it. And they don't want to believe it. Meanwhile children suffer.
How about you people explain why the only studies showing any links were to due to fraud and any legitimate study shows no links?
I do not care what you put into your body but I do care if you try to force me or my family to take something against their will.
- Are you a nurse or a doctor? Some hospitals require you to take a shot.
- Are you student in a public school? Staff claims that it's "the law" to take shots. Some schools do not even ask permissions, they just give shots.
- Are you in the military? Good luck denying taking shots.
- You have a newborn? Good luck trying not to have your baby taking shots.
These are just simple examples how vaccines are pushed, in many times against persons will. May not happen near you but they do happen. And if you think vaccines are greatest thing ever, you might not even care enough to notice.
And one last thing: in many cases medical companies lobby and outright finance drug approval agencies, just like with any big business. Medical business is no different from military, finance or oil. If you don't trust these industries why the hell would you trust medical?
If the idiots don't want to be vaccinated, just let them. But tell them they can't come back and whine later.
Everyone sane will leave the country soon anyway. (Because they are too smart to have the confidence to compete with the stupidity/insanity-fueled over-confidence of the nutjobs.) Then only them and their sadly doomed offspring will remain. (Nature is a cruel bitch.) But not for long, considering their ignorance of reality, and the embargo that will ensue. And when they haven't fucked the place up too much, then a couple of years later, the refugees can come back and build a new, functioning nation.
Looks like fucking idiots are well represented in Congress.
Congrats to the American people for electing these utter fuckwits to office. Pat yourselves on the back.
Shut up troll. The MMR-autism link was Wakefield's fabrication.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
OK, now that you have separated the religious people into geographical regions according to whether or not they are educated (non-secular is another way of saying religious), what is your plan for the secular (non-religious) people?
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
The Lancet, a British medical journal, withdrew a 'study' on this when the data were found to be bogus, the subject children abused, and the 'researchers' in the pay of lawyers trying to drum up new business based on fear. Even though the scientific community tries to prevent the lie from spreading, the Urban Legends that drive much thinking still prevail in some spots.
This is the same organization that prays before meetings, wants evang christianity inserted into everything, and wants to regulate everything. No newsflash that they did something flaky. Next week look forward to pi() being defined as "3" and a repeal of the law of gravity.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
nuff said
And here I thought it was just Republicans that were anti-science. Looks like the Dems are trying to join the club as well.
So they're against out-of-date computers?
Please don't try to invent bad catch phrases that don't make any sense. Nobody refers to vaccinations as "vax". Yes, we get it - "vax" rhymes with "tax", and there's overlap in the two groups. Really clever, we're all in awe of your wordplay prowess.
#DeleteChrome
Stupid typical slashdot science fundie article.
For everyone of you who claim that vaccines saves lives, tell that to the parents of children who develop autism for no reason and within days of getting a vaccination shot.
At least they didn't die of pertussis. Unless that's your goal -- eliminate autism by letting more children die? Do you hate autistic children only, or all children?
Are you 100% certain that the vaccine shot that you are willing to take, or that you are willing to give your children is really safe enough to put into your body?
I am 100% certain the vaccines are safer than the diseases they prevent. That's all that is required of them.
Another thing, why is it that vaccinations that are given to children are the same dose that are given to adults? Is that really safe for children?
I don't know. Maybe because vaccines aren't medicines? Is your assertion even true? Who knows.. Go ask a scientist. It's strange that you seem to think your ignorance is a valid argument against science. What was that meme?... "Fucking magnets, how do they work?"
The last thing, do you really think that the companies that make these really care if you have ANY health problems from whatever vaccine they make for you when in the US they are protected by law from harming you?
No. Do you really think their goal is to spread autism?
Actually no, I just call BS on your implementation of science.
-----
Okay, so let's be a little bit more honest.
HPV vaccine, it's now REQUIRED by some states at urging of FDA. And yet, my wife who is 27, is unable to get the vaccine. Nor am I...
So the FDA feels that vaccines are safe enough to push for mandates for my kids; but then is afraid to let me take it.
Seriously Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot!?!
***
As for the science, well considering how few vaccine related incidents are ever even attributed to vaccines. I am skeptical, the analysis can be right. But if the data is poor, the science means very little.
My daughter received a multi-vaccine for resperatory diseases (croup and diphtherea). Within 24 hours we were in the ER with my 18 month old getting breathing treatments. I bet you $50 even though I submitted that incident to VARS, that it's not associated or listed. Even though the fact is, it was clearly a 'possible vaccine related illness'. No, I am not saying it's a 100% assured to have been vaccine related. But the causality argument for it is pretty strong.
But here's what happens. Doctors believe that there is almost no vaccine related issue. So when they're presented with an issue that is probably vaccine related. They dismiss it. And so the data is a very very poor sampling.
So sorry, I am pro-science. Pro-vaccine. Just have issue with how the FDA handles and mandates some of them. And even more issue with the fact that we give 18 month old immune systems up to 6 vaccines in a single office visit.
And if you think that's a scienfically smart practice. You need to pull your head out of the textbook which is stuck in your arse.
1. Dennis Kucinich's Politifact record: He's about 17% wrong, as he is in this case. That's a considerably better record than many.
2. He's lost his seat. You don't have to deal with him past January.
3. For what it's worth, I've met the man, and I've seen no signs that he was 100% insane. And I've met people that were pretty insane.
4. He's been frequently right when most of Congress was wrong. For instance, he firmly believed that Iraq had no WMDs.
5. Ron Paul doesn't think he's nuts, and worked with him regularly on bipartisan initiatives.
6. He's turned his political career into a small fortune and marriage to a really hot redhead, so his goals are reasonable enough.
I am officially gone from
I am not anti-vaccine by any means. I am just anti all vaccines for a newborn baby. Why pump a human, at its most critical stage, with a bunch of foreign chemicals? Does a newborn really need to be vaccinated against STD's? Why not wait until the child is more robust?
Jenny McCarthy, is that you?
Between the hot redhead, and the not quite 100% insane he almost sound human! :)
Helicopter mommies don't buy congressmen, lawyers do.
Product liability lawyers don't want this potential cash cow to die just yet. All they need is a judge who doesn't believe in science because they personally "know better."
Average Intelligence is a Scary Thing
That's not how vaccination works. No vaccination provides 100% immunity to 100% of recipients. Instead it relies on getting enough people vaccinated to make it difficult for the pathogen to find fertile ground. This is known as "herd immunity". If large swaths idiots refuse vaccination, that in turn puts the non-idiots at risk.
So as one of the educated people why not send the uneducated up north to deal with the winter, and the rest of us head south where the weather is a lot more hospitable?
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
Stupid typical slashdot science fundie article.
For everyone of you who claim that vaccines saves lives, tell that to the parents of children who develop autism for no reason and within days of getting a vaccination shot.
Are you 100% certain that the vaccine shot that you are willing to take, or that you are willing to give your children is really safe enough to put into your body?
Another thing, why is it that vaccinations that are given to children are the same dose that are given to adults? Is that really safe for children?
The last thing, do you really think that the companies that make these really care if you have ANY health problems from whatever vaccine they make for you when in the US they are protected by law from harming you?
I don't usually make such direct and opinionated comment but you sir, is an idiot. Many vaccinations in discussion here are well proven with plenty of track records on their effectiveness and potential side effects. This records spans multiple DECADES and all over the globe. The United States Congress is running a race to the bottom while the rest of the world is trying to vaccinate every kids in their country to improve their public health. Yet someone like you is standing behind a position with very little proven science and are very much in a position to prevent the stability of public health.
We are not just talking about funding studies here on the side effect, which most would agree to be a beneficial thing (even if they don't agree with it). In fact we are talking about STOPPING current vaccination programs, which has been proven to be HIGHLY effective as far as public health goes. This goes a farther than than the individual expression. Public health at large must be properly protected with programs well run and supported by the professionals with good knowledge and experience. Right now the majority of the experts says vaccination is a good thing. We need to trust their ability in their field. There are very little reason why would majority of medical professionals would lie together on issues such as this.
I also don't normally make this request but some with mod points please mod this post down to negative (I don't mind if you do mod mine down as well). This post has zero benefit to the readers and is nothing but flame bite.
For the record I took all the vaccination required and it has no ill effect on me.
For what it's worth, I've met the man, and I've seen no signs that he was 100% insane. And I've met people that were pretty insane.
A guy walking down the street wearing a bathrobe chanting odes to aliens that resemble giant bunnies is only dangerous to the extent that motor vehicle collisions might occur due to the distraction of the spectacle. Conversely, people who generally appear stable and sane, but hold deeply ingrained lunatic views and occupy seats of power are the ones you need to worry about.
Write failed: Broken pipe
He's turned his political career into a small fortune...
Is it just me, or is this a bit disturbing?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
For everyone of you who claim that vaccines saves lives, tell that to the parents of children who develop autism for no reason and within days of getting a vaccination shot.
I would ask them whether they'd have a child with autism who is still alive, or a child that developed Polio. One of those children could still live a healthy, full life. The other one would be dead before they hit puberty.
Another thing, why is it that vaccinations that are given to children are the same dose that are given to adults? Is that really safe for children?
Show us your research that it's not.
cleaning up the gene pool, one preventable death from infectious disease at a time.
It will likely take proving out what causes autism to quell concerns about vaccinations. I personally believe that it is unlikely that vaccines cause autism and can only assume that it is something genetic. Perhaps it is just that we coddle people too much these days so they don't have to integrate. Maybe we just saw the worst cases as "insane" people and properly diagnose now. I do take objection to forced medication however as I believe it is unethical. Yes, it is sad that children suffer the choices made by a parent. Sadly they are too young to make an informed choice themselves. Would I vaccinate my child? Yes, of course. The benefits far outweigh the potential consequences IMHO. Do I know for certain that vaccines cause absolutely no harm? No, and nor does anyone else.
I used to have respect for Kucinich, too.
Isn't there anyone in Congress who has the people's best interest at heart AND has a brain in their head?
The two traits are so uncommon in Congress that I suppose it would be wishful thinking to imagine that there was any overlap.
Technoli
NO proven link between the two. Until you can show solid proof, you have no standing. You might as well say autism is caused by foul aethers.
Good-bye
".. a connection that medical experts have shown does not exist."
Sonny, you ever actually read any real scientific studies? Any actual research protocols of studies you claim to prove otherwise??
Those "medical experts" from those companies which have racked up the largest criminal penalties in the history of humanity: GlaxoSmithKline, Eli Lilly, Merck, etc, etc., ad nauseum?
Over the past several years I, and numerous others, have posted links to well-respected and reputable studies by scientiest throughout the planet --- one of the recent ones was the French study detailing the correlation between incidents of childhood autism and the number of vaccinations administered to very young children under the age of 2 years, etc.
Unless you cite an overwhelming number of verified, and verifiable, studies with proper protocols having been followed, to bolster your point, you are just another voodoo-hoodoo stooge.
You remind me of that propaganda sister station to FoxFiction, NPR, which last year, on the anniversary of the Kennedy Assassination in November, broadcast a pure fiction as fact interview with a retiring crackerhead from South Carolina, who claimed to be a "journalist" and wrote the Rambler column for a major Southern newsrag.
This clown claimed to have run into a woman in Tennessee who had served in the military back in the 1950s, and while practising on the firing range at the base she was stationed in at Japan, frequently saw a young quiet Marine who came almost every day to practise firing his rifle. The Rambler claimed this woman told him she later recognized him again as Lee Harvey Oswald, on the day of Kennedy's assassination in November of 1963.
Problem? Women weren't allowed on any military firing range back then, and not even back in the late 1960s and 1970s when I was in the bag (in military and combat). Fiction is fiction, sonny, no matter how many times you spin it....
...to have those "mystery" vaccines shot into you which were concocted in those dirty bathtubs by sub-sub-subcontractors in China --- you ever follow the current news, ever?????
Ok, you know what I meant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDj7gvc_dsA&hd=1&t=44s
for anyone running for office. I'm sorry, but in a modern world, if you can't do arithmetic, don't have a basic comprehension of the sciences or have an IQ under 100, you are simply not fit for office. Admittedly, this would decimate our current crop of politicians, however, I rather look forward to them all getting jobs more aligned with their natural talents. My house needs cleaning and my grass needs cutting, after all.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
For everyone of you who claim that vaccines saves lives, tell that to the parents of children who develop autism for no reason and within days of getting a vaccination shot.
That has never actually happened. You can't catch autism like the flu. If a case looks that way, then likely the doctor noticed something was strange during the visit and discovered the autism soonafter. It's hard to diagnose autism in infants, what with all the flailing and lack of language and all.
Are you 100% certain that the vaccine shot that you are willing to take, or that you are willing to give your children is really safe enough to put into your body?
Yes, because doctors created it and science back it up. They're the experts, you and I aren't. Are you 100% certain that the free range vegetables that you are willing to buy and feed your children with are really safe enough to put in your body?
Another thing, why is it that vaccinations that are given to children are the same dose that are given to adults? Is that really safe for children?
Let's let the experts decide on dosage here, please?
The last thing, do you really think that the companies that make these really care if you have ANY health problems from whatever vaccine they make for you when in the US they are protected by law from harming you?
Yes they do. Because no matter how regulated the medical industry or how evil you think big pharma is, if people are legitimately dying from your vaccinations, nobody's going to want to buy them. Killing your customers is bad for business.
Sigh.
If a congress critter is actively threatening our herd immunity (and oh, look; Whooping Cough is back with infant fatalities!), that critter needs to GO (as in defeated).
It doesn't matter if it's because you believe in a book of fiction or some air-headed celebrity that has to find blame for an imperfect snowflake;: your crackpot beliefs must STOP WHERE OUR IMMUNE SYSTEMS START.
The US electoral system runs on corporate money.
Why is that? We and I mean all of us, need to address that and kill it.
Have your opinion of Obama, but one of his appeals is that he was some relatively poor guy who got backing. He wasn't some plutocrat. Much of his money was raised by little bits and pieces. Yes, there was some major money backing - like from Wall Street - but he had this awesome grassroots backing. Romney was all BIG money - which I think contributed partially to his loss.
That was a GOOD THING (TM -some Slashdot poster)
I think we as a people need to do that - to stick it to the man. I'm sorry Mr. candidate. You're backed by BIG MONEY (TM- SSP). Fuck you! YOU don't represent me.
the MMR vaccine is given at the point when autism would be first detectable. but there are always signs before hand that are ignored.
i have 2 kids and the first was thought to maybe have aspergers and missed some milestones
autism has nothing to do with MMR or vaccines because in the US autism is an upper middle class condition and clusters in areas where people are better off than most people. the latest theories are fertility treatments which a lot of upper middle class people use, having kids later in life or having a lot of chemicals around your kids. there was a study in northern europe that linked autism to some plastic flooring used in homes
why is it that almost everyone gets vaccinated but autism is mostly found in middle class families with mothers who have kids later in life?
want to lower your risk of having kids with autism? have kids in your twenties, don't party and get drunk every other day, keep healthy and have kids naturally without chlamid or invitro or any other procedure
The country is already divided pretty equally down the middle. Religious zealots want pro life, guns, war, and no Gubberment. Non religious sensible folk want universal health care, no war, no class warfare, etc. Basically you can choose to progress to the future or regress to a cave, depending on which side you choose.
I'll take the former and progress to the future thank you very much.
Karma: Bad
I'll take snow and cold over hurricanes.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
... and the commonality is idiocy. In a just universe, Kucinich and Burton would both be stripped of their seats and set adrift on a large barge with the other anti-vaccine imbeciles. I hope anyone who voted for those two asshats sees the error of their ways, now.
Hey hey hey! -- We Canadians like things the way they are up here, keep your goddamned right-wing, fundie nutjobs to yourselves! It's bad enough that their crackbot selfish ignorant ideals have bled north (not surprisingly, by following the oil) and stuck us with a neo-con idealogue for Prime Minister...
-AC
vaccinations. I don't like having them FORCED on me just to keep my job.
Well, at least it was a bipartisan effort. Um, yay?
Those that don't want vaccines can go get put on a list. They don't get vaccine, everyone else does. Let the invisible hand of darwin figure it out.
I hope anyone who voted for those two asshats sees the error of their ways, now.
Bah ha ha ha ha! Good one!
Both been in Congress since the last century.
I'm all for efficacious vaccines, which have been fully tested and vetted, and follow proper bio-security protocols and standards --- but in these days of rampant hell-for-leather globalization, when the uber-rich are obsessed with profitizing everytthing and squeezing the most profit from everyone, those criminal biopharmaceutical corporations, with their heinous records, do not install many of us with confidence, especially those of us who have actually read the studies, and checked their protocols , and read the litigation and lawsuits following those criminal biopharmaceuticals' expedient vaccines which turn out not to be marketed for what they were designed for.
FYI:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=msHJLwYWX30
1) It doesn't matter what percentage of the time he's right. If he's got this particular position, he's a moron. It's like being smart other than thinking the moon is made of Gouda cheese. .
2) Thank
3) 100% insanity doesn't matter. As we see here, 1% insanity goes a long way.
4) See #1
5) Ron Paul thinking he's not nuts should tell you something.
6) Crazy people can often do quite well for themselves. Look at Jesse Ventura.
Let me correct you. Idiots only harm themselves. That guy is complete asshole.
Well, OK, but you said you wanted the uneducated religious people to move south of the Mason-Dixon line (I assume that is what you meant by "the Dixie line") and educated religious (non-secular) religious people to go north. What I wanted to know was whether your intention was for the non-religious people to divide along the same lines (in which case I suggest that you should prepare to move south, since you apparently are unfamiliar with the what the Mason-Dixon line is and the fact that it bears no connection with Dixie--except that the part of the country known as Dixie is south of the Mason-Dixon line, although not all of the U.S. south of the Mason-Dixon line is "Dixie".).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
It's disturbing, but it's a pretty common occurrence. The thing that nauseates me about it is he puts himself forward as a champion of the people.
So natural selection will help even more. Will take out the idiots that refuse vaccination, and the non intelligent enough people that live near to them.
This whole submission is an exercise in bipartisanship. We have a story of politicians from both sides being silly.
We also have slashdotters from both sides assuring us that the politician from the party they don't like is a complete insane moron and that the one from the party they like is just occasionally wrong and shouldn't be written off as a fool.
There seems to be symmetry here.
I'd say let these idots die without vaccination -- it will only improve mankind's gene pool with less stupid people.
But then, some 10% will survive, and will be as stubborn -- if not more.
Like Orcs, stronger and less, erm, brilliant.
Where will the majority of the folks go? You know, the educated religious people???
Karma: Bad
it became a bad thing to tell a stupid person that their ideas were crap. We told them that they were all special and unique snowflakes and their ideas were as valid and important as anyone else's.
Have you ever noticed that stupid people are almost always on the wrong side of every argument? Unfortunately, our American democracy counts the voices of the stupid equal to the voices of the not stupid. That's why we are still arguing about evolution, global warming, etc.
The US is well into a permanent downward slide and the human race in general is doomed. We have destroyed our planet before our technology enabled us to leave it behind. I think the thanks goes mostly to the stupid...
should be assigned to care for people in iron lungs for whom the Polio vaccine was too late.
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Can we just form lynch mobs and get rid of them?
having a lot of chemicals around your kids
This is precisely the reason I intend to have my children in the cold vacuum of space, away from any chemicals.
Hello,
We have maybe 12 different vaccinations for infants. I read this in a health magazine:
"When a child is born, he or she is literally assaulted by thousands of species of bacteria and viruses that child has never seen before, because they were in the sterile womb environment. Given that, I don't think we need to worry about the relatively small number of shots we give children."
I found that a difficult point to refute--you get born, and suddenly, yes, you're immersed in a bunch of germs. Thousands or maybe millions of types! This is normal, expected, and unavoidable. Yet we're supposed to get worried because we add a dozen or so dead germs to that list of exposure?
This doesn't really address "bunch of foreign chemicals", but I think that the other, inactive components of vaccines can be tested for safety. Even thimerosal, which tested as safe, was removed as a precaution because it had some mercury in it, so what, exactly, are you worried about in the "foreign chemical" arena???
--PeterM
http://antiantivax.flurf.net/
The above site mentioned is owned by a marketing director at Eli Lilly, Paul Sleigh, in Australia. You want to check back on Eli Lilly which, until that recent criminal penalty against GlaxoSmithKline, held the record for the largest criminal penalty levelled against a biopharmaceutical. That's what I meant about criminal corporations and their propaganda. How about a neutral party, sonny?????
What does creating a virus strain that could be in the wild right now in order to learn how to kill it have anything at all to do with vaccines? If I add more question marks you will take me seriously??????????
the poster of this blog item, cited the web site owned by a marketing director at Eli Lilly? The corporation which used to hold the record for highest criminal penalty ever received (until recently when GlaxoSmithKline bested them in that category)?
http://antiantivax.flurf.net/
The above site mentioned is owned by a marketing director at Eli Lilly, Paul Sleigh, in Australia. You want to check back on Eli Lilly which, until that recent criminal penalty against GlaxoSmithKline, held the record for the largest criminal penalty levelled against a biopharmaceutical. That's what I meant about criminal corporations and their propaganda. How about a neutral party, sonny?????
Welllll, those thousands of other bacteria and viruses aren't usually injected into us in quantities high enough to often cause a low-grade fever. Let's not use bad evidence, even if the concerns are unwarranted or part of mass hysteria or whatever.
What does the H5N1 research you reference have to do with vaccination, exactly?
...or work near them, or shop near them, or watch movies, or fly on planes, or ride trains. Where exactly is this place devoid of all idiots that you speak of?
Hello,
I fully expect to be quarantined if I am unfortunate enough to contract, say, drug resistant TB until I'm either dead or not contagious.
Similarly if I am infected with ebola, pneumonic plague, or a raft of other nasties. Furthermore, I fully support society's right to lock me away should I be infected with one of those.
HIV is barely contagious. However, I believe there are cases where people who have deliberately spread HIV have been locked up, too. But for most people, HIV+ people don't need to be locked up because they have a very low risk of infecting anyone else.
And I think even people with TB don't need to be quarantined if they're taking sufficient measures to stop infecting anyone else.
--PM
So, when was the last time you had Polio? Measles? Rubella? Mumps? Smallpox? When was the last time you met someone who has had these diseases? These diseases that used to be common enough that you would known a handful of people who may have even had more than one at the same time (and probably died.)! I wonder where they went! Clearly vaccines are garbage and only exist to pad corporate profits!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Measles_US_1944-2007_inset.png
Everyone sane will leave the country soon anyway.
Oh yeah? Where are they going?
I'm serious, because I want to go. Do I need to be in the 1%. I'm in the 3%.
Crap. Quote fail. Now no country will want me. :-(
He's been frequently right when most of Congress was wrong. For instance, he firmly believed that Iraq had no WMDs.
Iraq did have WMDs. We found them. They were all Made in the USA and given/sold to him by Reagan. They were also so old as to be inoperable. But they were there. But that was ignored because now that Reagan is dead, we aren't supposed to talk about his multiple treasons. We are at war with Iraq. Reagan gave/sold weapons to our enemy we are at war with.
Ron Paul doesn't think he's nuts, and worked with him regularly on bipartisan initiatives.
Wait, are you arguing for or against his sanity? Most don't agree Ron is all there.
He's turned his political career into a small fortune
So abusing your politcal power for personal gain is a good thing?
Learn to love Alaska
So typical the "herd immunity" card is drawn out. The truth is more than 1 in ten will not be protected by the vaccine, you do not and will not have herd immunity anyways. It is immoral to force someone to have a foreign substance injected into their body, for the truth is some people are maimed and killed by vaccinations (allergic reaction, improperly deactivated viruses, etc.). You are free get a vaccination yourself and for your children, it will probably work. No one else is your problem.
they are responsible for tens of thousands of preventable deaths each year from viruses like influenza.
BS. The flu (influenza) shot has not been proven to be effective, especially in the elderly. In fact there's a large amount of evidence to say that it's ineffective.
And should be prosecuted as such
So If I convince you not to wear your seatbelt, I should be prosecuted if you die in a car accident. Nice argument, but try again please.
Humans have been born for quite a long time and have optimized themselves for that "normal" exposure to the environment. Thus the normal exposure is not really foreign at all. The mother through the breast milk can even pass antibodies to the child thus helping it further. The problem is the chemicals which are historically foreign.
Mercury is in your teeth fillings. It's combined with other elements and is unavailable for biology to get sick off it.
Your assertion is as ridiculous as claiming salt is bad for you because chlorine and sodium is toxic.
When was the last time you were attacked by a bear? Clearly the Bear Patrol is working.
Iraq did have WMDs. We found them. They were all Made in the USA and given/sold to him by Reagan. They were also so old as to be inoperable. But they were there. But that was ignored because now that Reagan is dead, we aren't supposed to talk about his multiple treasons. We are at war with Iraq. Reagan gave/sold weapons to our enemy we are at war with.
Well, two things:
1) IIRC, Saddam Hussein still had chemical weapons as late as the 90's, so it's not as if Reagan sold Iraq all of them in the 80's, and they were mothballed after then.
2) You're using the present tense when you shouldn't be. We were at war with Iraq. Once four years after Reagan left office, and again ~ 13 years after. But we weren't at war with them when he sold them, and that's the point. At the time, Hussein was our guy, because he was keeping the power of the Iranians in check (which we seem to be having some trouble with, now that he's gone).
Fine, if you don't want the vaccine.
Expect to be sued if you (or children under your care) catch preventable disease N, though
Should be held liable IF:
Medically suggested that you get the vaccine for N, and you choose not to, Against Medical Advice (AMA)
Grounds:
Pain and suffering (Always a wonderful thing, I had to listen to coughing, so suffered), being the first among friends to distribute it (e.g. My child got it, and your child got it N days prior, therefore I'm holding you liable for giving it to my child. This repeats until the early catchers run out of money, mostly making lawyers rich, but this is entirely preventable stupidity anyway....)
"5. Ron Paul doesn't think he's nuts, and worked with him regularly on bipartisan initiatives."
Talk about your low bar.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
just because big pharmas wouldn't hesitate to sell autism-causing vaccines to make a $ doesn't mean they have/are...
that said, IMO opinion one of the biggest reasons this (/cell phones/power lines/${YOUR_FAVORITE_CONSPIRICY}) won't go away is that just because they don't/haven't doesn't mean they wouldn't/couldn't get away w/it if they did...
And becomes deaf or blind or dies from it, because some nut job politician took away vaccines. I highly recommend that everyone grab their pitch forks and torches. Maybe some tar and feathers too.
If it's not radical islam trying to turn back the clock a thousand years, it's well meaning anti-science idiots trying to turn it back 150 years. Honestly folks, the 19th century was not all that great.
"This doesn't really address "bunch of foreign chemicals", but I think that the other, inactive components of vaccines can be tested for safety. Even thimerosal, which tested as safe, was removed as a precaution because it had some mercury in it, so what, exactly, are you worried about in the "foreign chemical" arena???"
Hi PeterM,
I find this a strange question. You are aware of how toxic thiomersal is, right? My question is "How can anything that toxic possibly be 'tested safe' for injecting into human infants"? It appears you are flat out lying - wikipedia says "Few studies of the toxicity of thiomersal in humans have been performed. Cases have been reported of severe poisoning by accidental exposure or attempted suicide, with some fatalities."
Once you answer that question (and I believe the answer is 'money') - then we can begin to have a discussion about what drives the vaccination industry, and why it is possible to be both rational and anti-vaccine at the same time.
Natural selection will also favor strains of the virus that can adapt to take advantage of the larger unexploited living space that is the vaccinated population.
Failing to eradicate the virus entirely may result in it coming back in a form that can't be immunized against as easily.
I recall when /.'ers were much, much better informed --- now they fall for any pseudo-corporate hoodoo-voodoo......
And I recall the time when baseless conspiracy theories were laughed out Slashdot instead of being moded "Insightful".
It really bothers me that the argument is either Autism, or no Autism, because there is a lot more to this. Vaccines still carry a potential risk, and there's plenty of evidence to support this. The mere fact there's a Vaccine Adverse Event Database shows children are being hurt by vaccines.
/.ers are for blindly trusting government to tell us when, why and how to protect our kids. When they come out and start vaccinating for chicken pox, the common cold, ADHD..will these people blindly follow as well?
There are a large number of anti-vacciners (who are intelligent people btw) who simply don't want to take the risk associated with the current multiple vaccine schedule as laid out by the medical community. Some choose to vaccinate on their own schedule i.e. using the multiple vaccines at once approach, or simply not at all. It's a risk either way and I hope people simply do a bit of research either way before deciding.
I'm also very surprised that the majority of
is to provide representatives the opportunity to make speeches and hear testimony that supports their viewpoint. There is no desire to understand competing viewpoints or actually foster discussion.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
That's the rule, not the exception. If you're not banking millions after getting into politics, you're doing something wrong. But then again, most of my fellow American's are too fucking stupid and ignorant to know the difference anyways. So it's a moot point now isn't it?!
Move along, nothing to see here.
Life is not for the lazy.
For everyone of you who claim that vaccines saves lives, tell that to the parents of children who develop autism for no reason and within days of getting a vaccination shot.
I'd tell them, but they are a fiction. Small changes over a long period are hard to see, but when a significant event happens, people re-evaluate. That's why "scaring your hair white" continues as a meme. It was *never* true, but has been around hundreds of years or longer. People deny they are going grey, then once they have an "experience" they see themselves again, slightly differently, and notice the grey more prominently than before. Their hair didn't change, just their perception. A slow trip to autistic from birth will be ignored by parents. Then, when they get vaccinations, they'll look harder at autism because they have been told to be suspicious of doctors and science. Then they see the changes that were starting from birth for the first time. Broken human psychology doesn't cause medical problems, even if it makes parents swear to medical problems.
But yeah, point me to one of these fictitious parents, and I'll tell that to the parents.
Are you 100% certain that the vaccine shot that you are willing to take, or that you are willing to give your children is really safe enough to put into your body?
I'm not 100% sure anything I put in my body is absolutely safe. What's in my tap water? What's in bottled water? What's in the vaccine? I will drink tap and take vaccines. I'm not 100% sure, but anyone that is is lying (unless they work at the treatment plant and test all their water before drinking).
Learn to love Alaska
The anti-vaccine crowd benefits from the herd immunity that the rest of us sane people provide them. But really, if someone's little baby gets mumps or cholera or something and dies because of the behavior of a minority of idiots, I think at least there should be criminal negligence pressed against them. If not a literal lynch mob. Sorry, but I don't think people will be terribly rational or reasonable after they watch their child get smaller and weaker and paler over several days, I certainly wouldn't hold a grieving parent fully accountable for their actions at that point.
(this is the one time that somebody does need to think of the children)
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
secular is non-religious. non-secular is not religious.
Learn to love Alaska
Studied by thousands of scientists. or
Some nut with Google?
Which to choose, which to choose...
"Are you 100% certain that the vaccine shot that you are willing to take, or that you are willing to give your children is really safe enough to put into your body?"
Yes.
", why is it that vaccinations that are given to children are the same dose that are given to adults? "
Some are less some are the same and some are more. This is done for medical sound and scientific reasons.
Uptake can be different, and vaccines aren't drugs. meaning it's not how much column in your blood. Vaccines go to a lymph node and collect immune cells.
"The last thing, do you really think that the companies that make these really care if you have ANY health problems from whatever vaccine they make for you when in the US they are protected by law from harming you?"
yes. There is special legal circumstances around vaccines. One of those reason is that their isn't a lot of money in producing most vaccines.
Question about vaccines? go to the CDC, learn about them, learn how they work, learn how the immune response works, learn about the numbers. Learn from actual sources and not second hand anecdotes from people acting stupid.
We live in a glorious age. We have the Internet and you have no excuse from finding accurate data and facts.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I saw an idiot make a decision that killed 5 people.
Idiot are a danger to everyone. Usually in unexpected ways.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
the part of the country known as Dixie is south of the Mason-Dixon line, although not all of the U.S. south of the Mason-Dixon line is "Dixie".)
Looking up the definitions of Dixie and Mason-Dixon line (on Wikipedia), everything south of the Mason-Dixon line is Dixie.
Learn to love Alaska
If there is a problem with vaccines, it is most likely related to the Adjuvants. These chemicals are included in the shot to irritate the body, hopefully getting it to take action against the targeted virus.
Personally, I think sewers, garbage service, and iodized salt have done much more for public health than vaccinations.
A tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis vaccine, for example, contains minute quantities of toxins produced by each of the target bacteria, but also contains some aluminium hydroxide.[4] Such aluminium salts are common adjuvants in vaccines sold in the United States and have been used in vaccines for over 70 years.
- Adjuvant (emphasis added)
There is also a full article here: Immunologic adjuvant
Mercury injected into a muscle is much more of a problem than environmental/dietary mercury exposure.
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
I am VERY disappointed by the SHEEPLE here on Slashdot who buy the LIES told by "scientists" who are bought and paid for by big pharma.
I wish that you folks would take a look at the ACTUAL evidence against vaccines. I guess critical thought is too much to ask from a herd of Sheeples...
I has recently seen a rise in the Sheeple count on slashdot with stories promoting almost every dubious science claim of our time.
From Vaccines to Climate change...
Do you mean lynching the swarms of non-vaccinated "undocumented aliens" who enter this country every day? You might find some support for that in certain segments of our society.
For all you defenders of 'science' and/or 'science denial' - how about owning the damage to 'science' that the 'climate zealots' have wrought?
Everybody who lies, cheats and steals seems to get indignant when people then don't want to accept their (perhaps reasonable) premises at face value. Too many people acting in bad faith are now undermining the fundamentals of our society.
Still think morals and honesty don't matter? In my view, it's the lack of trust in both the science and the agencies tasked to keep is 'safe' which is really at work here. Welcome to the New World.
eh, hurricanes are easy. failing to plan for them is what gets you.
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
A couple of years ago there was news that women didn't need regular mammograms.
http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2009/11/annual_mammograms_not_needed_u.html
Then there was the report that men didn't need to get PSA tests:
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/health/paul-donohue/psa-screening-no-longer-worth-the-risk/article_92d1d8ba-ee74-5a7a-9702-888396c95e66.html
Now suddenly it is vaccinations. All of these things have been proven effective at catching disease early or prolonging lives. Now the media, the government and (Insurance Companies) come up with all these things that surely means an early death for many people.
I am not really one for conspiracy theories, but this is getting a bit suspect.
I have rarely met such an overwhelming crowd of uninformed, misguided, highly educated beings. Does anyone really think it will help to discuss here? Nobody - I repeat, nobody, will move to the other side!
Ahem.... stupid is as stupid does....that is all
America is being run by a bunch of yokels these days.
For my part, I was worried about the uneven thimerosal distribution among vaccine draws from the multi-shot vial (yes, they were "supposed" to shake it thoroughly....) So, say 1/20 shots have a heavy load of thimerosal, and you need to get 5 or 6 heavy shots to reach a level of toxicity... 0.05**5 = 1 per 3 million, or about one child a year. Twiddle the numbers just a little and it turns into a pretty scary scenario, especially when you factor in the human element of the people who don't shake adequately are likely to repeat that action.
Add in a genetic or personal susceptabiliy....
stupid people will have more votes and there will be those to support their views in order to get their votes for a comfy life as a congressman. Then you will see stuff like this happening. Next they will burn books and paintings to banish the devil from the World. FFS, it's the dark ages again.
thankfully science can't be biased or influenced by power/money/the pharmaceutical industry:
http://thearrowsoftruth.com/30-year-cover-up-on-vaccine-dangers-exposed-in-uk-government-transcripts/
Fuck you and your Evolution by natural selection. We WILL spend money on the genetically defected and mentally retarded people so their defects can be bred into our genes pool. We WILL let morons rule the Earth from places of power, despite their lack of fitness in regards to ANY leadership qualities! We WILL refuse to inoculate ourselves, so that the weak will die out and only the strong will survi-- oh, wait! FUCK!
The mistake is accepting the challenge to "prove them wrong."
It's a logical fallacy to claim that the burden of proof lies not with the anti-vaccers, but with us to disprove their claim. Otherwise, one could simply go claiming all sorts of ridiculous things that are constructed to be difficult or impossible to disprove.
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
They're shifting debate because there is no proof vaccines cause autism - what 'evidence' exists has been easily shown as falsified, misunderstood, misinterpreted, or the result of incompetence.
Don't accept the challenge. Put your foot down and say "No, it's not my responsibility to disprove your claim. It's your responsibility to prove your claim in a valid, logical, scientific fashion."
If they object, tell them that God told you the burden is on them. When they say that's nonsense, say "prove God didn't tell me."
Brilliant, no? :)
Please help metamoderate.
This is taken from answers.com and is the best definition of non-secular I was able to find (there were several other good answers elsewhere, but they took longer to say the same thing. The word "secular" generally refers to non-religious things. Period. The word "non-secular" generally refers to religious things. Period.
If you disagree with this definition, how would you define "non-secular", in particular in this context?
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
In part this is why preventable and potentially fatal diseases like pertussis and measles are once again on the rise.
No it isn't. These diseases are only on the rise in poor, immigrant communities where people can't afford healthcare. By focusing everyone's attention on idiots like Jenny McCarthy instead of our spectacularly shitty health care system, you delay the possibility of actually fixing the problem.
With vaccines, idiots harm their children and their communities. Vaccines are not a magic disease prevention bullet - they dramatically lower the probability of an infection. Only with widespread vaccination do we get "herd immunity", where the basic reproductive rate of pathogens drops below one. That's why we see outbreaks of pertussis etc in schools where enough parents refused to do the right thing and vaccinate their children.
" potentially fatal diseases like pertussis and measles are once again on the rise."
LOL.
If measles are so frightening, how come there are numerous references to them in 1970s sitcoms, where it was accepted as the norm that EVERYBODY had had measles, and mumps, as a child. No mention of the 'deadly' threat of them.
There is no such thing as 'vaccination', because Jenner was a fraud.
http://www.whale.to/v/hadwen1.html
Why has Dr Hadwen never been rebutted? You've had almost a hundred years. Nobody has even ATTEMPTED to rebut anything he's said. Is that how your 'science' works? Putting your fingers in your ears when presented with an opposing opinion.
LOL at the Slashdot cretins, who believe everything the T.V. tells them.
Maryland has never been part of Dixie*. According to the Wikipedia entry on Dixie: "As a definite geographic location within the United States, "Dixie" is usually defined as the 11 Southern states that seceded to form the Confederate States of America."
*The Mason-Dixon Line is the border between Delaware and Pennsylvania on one side and Maryland and (West) Virginia on the other. The parenthesis around West in West Virginia is used because West Virginia was part of Virginia at the time the line was surveyed..
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
I love kuccinich's opening salvo. He references a thermirisol shield rider added by unknown person to the homeland security bill of 2002.
Trust and legitimacy is absolutely critical here peeps. When parents see government shennanigans and corrupt behavior it is hard to stand around and act surprised when they decide to distrust government recommendations.
I hate skeptics who often use the same tactics and logical fallacies as the conspiracy nuts..only they don't end up looking like crackpots only because they happen to be on the right/safe side of the argument.
In my view the biggest problem with these debates is hubris. Parents think their experience means shit. Doctors the same. Both are wrong.
The only people qualified to draw any conclusions are the statisticians.
Statisticians can't well do their jobs effectivly when bias and lack of conformity is baked into available feedback channels.
There are still doctors who see children after vaccination with high feaver or other problems and don't file the damn report because *they* don't see a link... an attitude made of the same misrecognition of the limits of ones own knowledge as any Alex Jones vaccination tirade.
There needs to be mandatory uniform reporting with appropriate education/guidelines to all doctors on vaccination reactions so everyone has quality data on which to draw informed decisions.
At least the government is trying but they should NOT have to be in a position of begging and settling for incomplete data.
"VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning that reports about adverse events are not automatically collected, but require a report to be filed to VAERS. VAERS reports can be submitted voluntarily by anyone, including healthcare providers, patients, or family members. Reports vary in quality and completeness. They often lack details and sometimes can have information that contains errors.
From: https://vaers.hhs.gov/
"Underreporting" is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events. The degree of underreporting varies widely. As an example, a great many of the millions of vaccinations administered each year by injection cause soreness, but relatively few of these episodes lead to a VAERS report. Physicians and patients understand that minor side effects of vaccinations often include this kind of discomfort, as well as low fevers. On the other hand, more serious and unexpected medical events are probably more likely to be reported than minor ones, especially when they occur soon after vaccination, even if they may be coincidental and related to other causes."
Please do :) and tell your entire family to. And their friends friends to take it. I will be happy when you all die off or your children are all invariably fucked up for life.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm
mercury, aluminum, Formaldehyde, aborted monkey fetus are just a few things you gladly pump into your body, while the 'scientists' (See paid repeaters who are silenced when speaking the truth, it happens all the time in 'science' and 'journalism') say putting these things into your body is perfectly fine. No problem!
Anyone who trusts the Rockerfeller created CDC and any of their paid off pharmaceutical cronies - I will simply say go ahead, take your poison you dumb animals :) while the informed laugh. Do some research on David Rockerfeller and population control. Aaron Russo was told about it. Many know about it. Vaccinations are one of the key elements in harming and dumbing down society and population control.
Anyone you walk by, work with, purchase something from, etc could infect you. Living next to someone isn't the whole issue
Kucinich is gone come January. His district disappeared in the redistricting and he didn't win in the primary against Kaptur.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Based on the CDC's recommendation of giving children vaccines 12 different times up through 6 years of age, that's an average of 1 vaccination every 180 or so days. Assuming that one develops autism randomly, you'd expect that about 1 in 36 parents would see their child develop autism within 5 days of being vaccinated.
In other words, there are thousands of parents who could reasonably come to the conclusion that their child somehow got autism as a result of a vaccination, while there are 30 times more parents who would not come to that conclusion.
While I'm not certain that the vaccines that I take (or have administered to my children) are 100% safe, I am certain that they are safer than the car ride to and from the doctor's office!
dom
If you can't hold a job with your unvaccinated ass, why don't you start your own business. Maybe you can sell healing crystals or something.
Dear Congressmen:
On behalf of myself and my medical colleges, I'm afraid we must withdraw from these hearings.
We've presented the facts. You've presented your opinions. Since there's nothing else we can do to influence your opinions, we would like to stop wasting your time.
Please excuse us while we go and save a few more people (while you'll still let us).
Hello,
We have maybe 12 different vaccinations for infants. I read this in a health magazine:
"When a child is born, he or she is literally assaulted by thousands of species of bacteria and viruses that child has never seen before, because they were in the sterile womb environment. Given that, I don't think we need to worry about the relatively small number of shots we give children."
The womb is a sterile environment??
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
There are exceedingly rare syndom which can kill you/handicap you when you get vaccinated. But since they are usually associated with all sort of genetic anomaly they are no good reason to get vaccinated for the average child. nonetheless your "absolute" is incorrect. PS: Vaccinate your child !
It's being anti-government-mandated vaccinations. If there is an epidemic going around, it's up to me to decide whether to get vaccinated or not. Government-forced vaccinations also have a history of inducing death. (people react to vaccines differently) It's not like water, where you always need it. I don't think any of these congressmen are about to introduce legislation to make vaccinations illegal, but I sure hope they prevent vaccines from being mandatory. Even if their reasoning isn't based on sound logic
Autism is a result of genetic failure on the parents' part and was not induced by external sources. Your "friend" has bad DNA.
One thing that even most parents don't realize is the number of minor infections that a baby will get that we don't even have a name for because by the time we are old enough to talk about them we're all immune. I'd be willing to bet that if you sampled your child's blood every day of their life for the first 3 years, you'd see anomolous numbers as often as you'd see normal ones. Except 'normal' is a relative thing, an infant's immune system is under constant assault by thousands of diseases that we don't even know about. The perception that an infants immune system is somehow frailer than an adults is only valid because it hasn't been trained in on everything an adult's has.
It's common knowledge, for instance, that teething causes a fever right? Everyone who reads the parenting books knows that! Except it isn't true. Teething can cause a very minor raise in temperature, half a degree or so, but that's it. It just so happens that infants are very likely to come down with a number of viral infections around the time most kids start teething. And everyone knows that RSV is a serious disease that you need to take your kid to the doctor for right? Except no... literally every infant in the civilized world gets RSV, it's just serious for a very small number of kids who develop a bad case.
Considering that somewhat the people that is in the government was directly or indirectly voted by US citizens, including those two, i would say outside US to start with. By default I don't attribute to malice that they got up there.
They should be looking at the preservation technique rather than vaccination per sec.
I'd like an option to be able to drive to a location and get a vaccine fresh and verified without the use of preservatives.
I travel for work so I've had a lot of injections for visas. I take the shots in the arm without knowing whether it's formaldahyde, mercury or another technique used to preserve the virus.
When I get to work I have to undergo a lot of paperwork to handle formaldehyde in dilute form.
Looking at the number of vaccinations that could be taken in theory it can run into hundreds. As per electromagnetic radio interacting with the human nervous electromagnetic system, no cumulative effect is thought to be there.
Why not some labelling system so we can track what is going in our bodies. That way we can see if the amount is negligable - how does it compare to leaching from mercury fillings for example?
A blog I run for the wealth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_Southern_United_States_modern_definition.png includes MD (though in the less common shading).
Learn to love Alaska
corporate whores who defend the current situation by blaming the victims.
non-secular doesn't need a definition. I've heard people talk about fields and buildings. I'll make up a new term, non-building, to mean field. Is every non-building a field? Sure it is because I defined it that way. Religious and secular are the equivelent of empty-lot and lot-with-building. Making up a new term to define something as non-something-else is absurd. "non-secular" isn't a word, it has no meaning. It's an attempt to give more (or less) emotional weight to "religious" and there's no semantic reason to ever use it.
Learn to love Alaska
Yes.
Google is your friend:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002395.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/motherbabyinfections2.shtml
--PM
It's time to admit that your original statement was stupid.
Most of the U.S. population have no vote for most of the government. For example, only people in the districts of the two congresspeople mentioned in TFA could vote for them. The rest don't get a vote. These two could be literally brain dead and yet 98% of the population would have had no say in whether they got elected or not.
Also natural selection doesn't work the way you think it does. Government != parents.
Your comment is almost unintelligible. The irony of your declaration that the entire U.S. are idiots to be culled by natural selection is overwhelming.
It turns out the small fortune is pretty small: Only about $400K. That makes him significantly poorer than most of Congress.
I am officially gone from
"Representatives Dan Burton (R-Ind.) and Dennis Kucinich (D-Oh.) made speeches connecting vaccines to autism"
Having spent about three hours with the hearing blazing in the background the summary and article are completely unfair and misleading.
Even the main villians Kucinich spent most of his time talking about environmental factors citing well known studies and UN data on human caused mercury pollution from coal plants.
The issue of vaccination was hardly discussed at all other than a congressmen begging for any remaining thermerisol still in use to also be canned universally...
"Although there were actual medical researchers there as witnesses, they were mostly berated by the Congressmen on the panel."
100% bullshit... watch the hearing yourself.
Countries that are broke are not broke because they have public healthcare. They're broke because they didn't balance their books.
One of the ways to "not balance the books" is to commit to paying more for for health care than they can recover from government income.
This is complicated because all forms of government income suck money out of the private sector one way or another and that retards the private sectors production of wealth.
Someone always end up paying for the health care somehow. Rule of thumb: When the government is involved it ends up costing FAR more than when it's not.
(And before you point fingers at the pre-Obamacare health care costs, realize that the government HAS been involved - drastically - in so-called "private" healthcare for more than a half century.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
This is the reason we like him.
I would ask them whether they'd have a child with autism who is still alive, or a child that developed Polio. One of those children could still live a healthy, full life.
One of those children could live a life. Healthy and full are a spectrum crapshoot unless you mean physical health and length of life.
Where will the majority of the folks go? You know, the educated religious people???
North, according to GP
us educated, non secular folk go north
1) We have documented proof that Reagan sold them. It's not documented that Bush did it too, and Bush Jr isn't going to investigate Dad in the middle of a war. He'll ignore it and wait until a Democrat does and bash them for partisan bias.
2) Yeah, but that doesn't matter. He materially supported known enemies of the state. And not just Iraq. Reagan trained Osama bin Laden. We'd not have had 9/11 if not for Reagan's support of our "allies" (who were known then to be hostile to us). We chose the lesser evil of supporting our enemy's enemy, even when they were also our enemy. He was never not our enemy, he was just deemed to be "stable" enough to be worth supporting, despite being an enemy at the time.
Learn to love Alaska
I don't think it's enough to cause problems, but you do get mercury from your fillings.
You're correct that methyl mercury (from fish) and elemental mercury (from amalgam) differ a lot in their toxicity to the body.
See these references:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9391753
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_amalgam_controversy
And the bacteria/viruses injected into us are dead (except the live polio vaccine), not alive and kicking like natural exposure.
--PM
Anti-vaccination anti-science people like this are why my state has 5500 whooping cough cases in 2012 already, when we had only 400 in 2011.
And it's why everyone in my medical genetics and biostatistics labs went to get TDaP booster shots.
Seriously, I almost wish the Mayan calendar "crisis" was real, because they might rapture themselves.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means. ;)
I recently opted to buy my own health insurance instead of buying into my company's group policy (small company, high average age, crappy policy choices). Anyway, while between my prior employer's health plan and my own, I was effectively uninsured for a couple of weeks. Sure enough my wife had an emergency in the middle of the night and went to the ER. She effectively left after receiving a pain killer. The bill was approx. $3000. That is three grand. Well, we did the most logical thing and bought a COBRA coverage (since it is retroactive). That same $3000 bill was "renegotiated" to few hundred bucks. What type of sense does this make? By virtue being an uninsured patient the hospital has zero insurance overhead. The insurance does not make the mandatory 15% profit. Yet, the bill is an order of magnitude higher for the uninsured? That's extortion. That is blackmail to purchase insurance. This is exactly wrong!
The biggest concern people have is with the thimerosol in the vaccines, which is 50% mercury. They banned thimerosol from contact lens solutions and other products - isn't there some other preservative they could put in vaccines? You have to admit, it's a bit disconcerting to be injecting your newborn with mercury.
Done, with the possible exception of some varieties of the optional seasonal flu shot. The anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists don't care. They've just moved on.
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#t1
(Strangely, there has not been any corresponding drop in autism diagnoses, although there has been more than enough time for such a trend to become obvious.)
Indeed. But that doesn't make the statement in that health magazine (which I believe is just reprinted from a CDC fact sheet, or pretty close) any more relevant. It shows that infants have an immune system, but that's hardly in dispute. More relevant information would include things like strength of immune response to a vaccination vs. response to a cold. Otherwise it's just a reassuring-sounding trick to fool the scientifically illiterate into doing the right thing. Personally I take a pretty dim view of people doing the right thing for the wrong reasons; although it seems efficient at the time, it produces a brittle system in that if you don't know why you're doing what you're doing, you don't know how to react when something changes or you receive new information.
The difference is that with private insurance you can switch companies and try for a better policy and better service. It is also far more likely to be efficiently run, and therefore not go out of business or suddenly cut benefits like government run programs will have to do when the money runs out. With the government you've got exactly zero choices and if you don't like what they did what are you going to do? Sue them? Good luck with that.
Zero choices, eh? OK, you want to talk about choices?? First of all, in the US most health insurance is provided by one's employer, so there is effectively very little or no choice involved, in most cases you get to take whatever your job provides, and that's that. Secondly, changing from one greedy insurance company filled with people who get bonuses for denying care to another such company gets you what, exactly? Certainly nothing in the way of increased value or better care, nothing of any substance. THERE IS NO CHOICE FOR THE CONSUMER UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM! There's barely even the illusion of choice.
I simply don't understand why the anti-single payer crowd can't see that there can be no true free market in health care, especially under the current system. Consumers are allowed no real choice about virtually any facet of the care they receive, in most cases it's not even possible to find out in advance what a given procedure will cost. Unless health care consumers have access to information like the true cost of medical tests and procedures, along with information about the competence and reliability of the professionals who administer them, nothing resembling a free market is possible. This is obvious, it's basic economic theory. Why is it so hard to admit that health care just might, just possibly might, be an area unsuited to a purely free market solution? Remember, emergency medical care must, by definition, be administered immediately, often without input from a potentially unconscious patient. No patient choice = no free market. It's that simple. And as we've seen, attempts to impose a pseudo-free market via private insurance companies simply leads to the mess we have now: 51st in life expectancy. For god sake, a single payer system is not just the most efficient way for a modern industrialized society to deal with health care, it's the only way! Anything else leads to a grossly unfair and unethical two or more tier system, and life expectancies comparable to third world countries. We can surely do better than that.
This has been debunked over and over again...
1. The US reports infant mortality deaths differently than many other nations; Any baby dying in the US is reported as a death even if the death occurs 1 minute after birth, whereas some other nations do not report is the death occurs within many DAYS of birth
2. The US deaths from gangs (which many more homogenous nations have in FAR lower numbers) and deaths from drunk driving (which the US has in higher numbers because we both (a) have a high cars-to-people ration, and (b) drive so many more miles-per-year-per-person, are higher than in many countries.
These, and other similar reasons, have NOTHING to do with our healthcare system, but they are used by left-wing agitators to make US healthcare seem worse (by distorting the "life expectancy" and pretending that the cause is our healthcare system) in order to encourage less-informed people to support more european-style healthcare.
Vaccinations are cheap in the US. Insurance is supposed to help you pay for things (like a car crash, house fire, lung cancer, etc) that you are not likely to suffer but would be unlikely to be able to afford if you DID. If you are depending on insurance to buy the day-to-day things you need, then you need a daddy NOT an insurance policy. Nobody goes "hundreds of thousands of dollars" into debt for a flu shot
Anti-vaccine parents tend to be people who are a bit scared that what they are being told to do (get stuff injected into their kids) might be unsafe for those kids... there's nothing wrong with that instinct; it's good loving parenting. Where it goes wrong is when SOME either (a) cannot get answers to their questions that are sufficient to allay their fears [this is a failing of our medical and drug people] or (b) become so skeptical that they will not trust even valid answers [this is their own stupidity]
The typical slashdot meme is to denounce all these worried parents (typically it is parents who fear they will harm their little kids) as uneducated (and probably religious) hicks... however much of the ammunition has been provided by things like (a) investigative journalists doing stories on mercury and vaccines and autism (b) celebrities starting or adopting organizations opposing vaccines (c) "holistic" activists pushing "natural" foods and medicines, un-pasteurized milk etc. This stuff is fueled by subsets of both the left and the right, both the religious and the secular.
Finally, we must face the fact that anything like a drug or vaccine is going to be a statistics game; we can say a shot is nearly 100% safe... but that does not make it safe. Millions of people consume Aspirin every year safely, but a few teenagers suffer horrible medical consequences; this is a known thing and there's currently no way to predict who will suffer this way... but most people roll the dice and use the stuff. People who are afraid for their kids and choose not to give them Aspirin are not boneheaded neanderthals... they are just worried parents who are afraid to roll those dice and probably also do not vacation in Las Vegas. I am not worried about shots... but I'm not a big enough jerk to beat-up on parents who are worried... the answer is more and more information, very gently and openly provided... a project a US Surgeon General could provide if done properly and by a person not infected by politics... which means NOT in the next 4 years...
Maybe you should make Bush walk 20 miles to the next school through snow up to his chest and dodging Grizzly Bears
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
There is a simple solution to all this stupidity. If the people making our laws were required to follow them, ALL of them, they wouldn't be passing or even considering so many stupid ones. All this anti-science rhetoric would fade away as people woke up to the fact that science is how we got to almost all the good stuff we have. Would you outlaw a vaccine if there were no other way to cure your problem? let the scientific consensus find solutions!
If your in a position of power and your position turns out to be wrong you must pay with your life,
So you better make damn sure you got your facts right.
I did not first use the term "non-secular" I was merely interpreting the term used by someone else. In the context of the OP's post, what else would "non-secular" mean other than being another word for religious?
I believe that he meant either "secular" or "non-religious" but got the term wrong. When combined with his usage of "Dixie line" it suggests that the OP is as poorly educated as he intends to imply all religious people are.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Unfortunately, the people are divided along those lines because thy are followers. Once people get behind Team A or Team B they all of a sudden believe and follow everything on that team. It's ridiculous and I've actually seen people completely change core beliefs once they join a team. There are few people that can support the ACLU and the NRA. So we have two parties that pick different Amendments and then defend their own and attack the other's. And a third party that supports the separation of church and state as well as the freedom to bare arms, well, that's just crazy talk.
1. The US reports infant mortality deaths differently than many other nations
Better brush up on your debunking skills. From the NCHS's report Behind Internation Rankings of Infant Mortality: How the United States Compares with Europe:
a. The difference in reporting is not as you describe, and
b. "it appears unlikely that differences in reporting are the primary explanation for the United States’ relatively low international ranking".
2. The US deaths from gangs ... and deaths from drunk driving
are, as you say, not health metrics but social metrics BUT thank you for reminding me of yet more indications of the decline and fall of the American empire.
You pay market prices for drugs and provide big profits for pharmaceutical companies to develop and profit from those drugs. Our public monopoly purchasing system ensures that if a drug company wants its drug prescribed in volume in my country, they need to cut a very good deal on the price. Your market even encourages competition, meaning we can play companies off each other to get the best deal on similar products.
No doubt this happens in other areas such as equipment too.
So thank you USA for ensuring that drug and medical companies profit from you and we can squeeze them on price for our entire market. Please don't change.
1. Pertussis exists in two forms. The vaccine only targets one form. The testing only targets one form. The CDC gets their numbers from both forms. It is suggested the CDC picks and chooses to raise fear and promote the vaccines;
2. Physicians are poorly trained to recognize pertussis in its early stages and therefore many people spread it around (because of lazy health habits and unreasonable reliance on vaccines) before they may be properly diagnosed and treated;
3. The pertussis vaccine has increasingly reduced effect because (a) the virus is adapting and (b) vaccines wear off, "addicting" the user to repeated boosting, whereas natural immunity is for a lifetime;
4. Measles, Mumps, Pertussis and many of the other diseases are generally not all that harmful and may be fought off with, should it be needed, supportive care. These common childhood diseases of the 1950's produced some strong genetic stock. The human race is being weakened by its over-reliance on artificial immunity;
5. The increased prevalence of autism spectrum disorders and the increased use of vaccines go hand in hand. Some scientists argue that the evidence is in fact not conclusive as to a vaccine/brain dysfunction link. Unfortunately the precautionary principle does not win out when big money is involved.
The above is also science. But as this goes counter to the mainstream, it is dismissed as bunk.
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health-conditions/neurological-conditions/autism/
Especially during pregnancy, due to our indoors lifestyles. There may be other causes too, including vegetable deficiency disease, but vitamin D deficiency is a apparently a big one. Other possible causes:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/autism-research-discovery_b_794967.html
With that said, most people posting here are probably total hypocrites about health. They will go on about "herd immunity" and how immoral parents are who don't vaccinate their children for whatever reasons, but these same posters will then most likely eat junk food, pull all nighters, go to work and school when sick with the flu or whatever else, and not get a vitamin D test, and sit most of the day. Thus, such posters (or their children) will likely spread far more diseases than an unvaccinated kid who eats a lot of fruits & vegetables & beans, avoids junk food, gets enough vitamin D and iodine, stays home when sick, washes their hands, sleeps well, moves around a lot during the day, was breast-fed to age two years or beyond (see WHO guidelines), works or learns mostly from home, and so on. See also:
http://www.drfuhrman.com/shop/ChildBookReviews.aspx
The lack of critical reasoning on this subject on slashdot is also saddening, whatever the conclusion. The typical argument here on vaccine safety seems equivalent to someone saying, because the Intel 386 CPU did not have a floating point bug in 1990 and still runs OK now (some version of some vaccine did not cause a specific problem over the years), that means any CPU produced by anyone in 2012 can never possibly have any bugs and will run forever (all vaccine lots are always safe). That's just a nonsensical argument from a quality control standpoint, given many vaccine formulations and production techniques are continually changing. "Past performance is no guarantee of future results."
For all we know, the next lot of flu vaccine rush out could give millions of people AIDS because it was intentionally contaminated at the factory by someone. Specific vaccine lots may or may not be "safe" or "effective" either individually or in combination (ever installed one piece of software that broke something else?), but any discussion about the vaccine issue needs to be a lot deeper than what is apparent here, including issues of systemic risks from a single point of failure and the practical impossibility of providing several human generations of testing in advance when any lot of vaccine is released (especially when it is rushed out). A vaccine is not like a software patch than can be backed out, or in the worst case, be reformatted away. See for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40
"SV40 became a highly controversial subject after it was revealed that millions were exposed to the virus after receiving a contaminated polio vaccine."
Diseases are also continually evolving.
So much of modern medicine and modern science (as well as the holistic industries) is full of social problems that people on all sides of this question may want to do their own research and think more deeply on this topic. Some related quotes:
http://www.pdfernhout.net/to-james-randi-on-skepticism-about-mainstream-science.html#Some_quotes_on_social_problems_in_science
What's sad is that there are low hanging fruits (and vegetables) that could reduce so much disease in the USA and globally such as vitamin D and eating more veggies. Things like that protect against all disease, including emerging ones. Those basics are being ignored by a
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
He was an idiot troll who obviously didn't mean "non secular" to mean religious, as he said "religious" go one way and "non secular" the other. I'm guessing he was thinking "non religious" and changed his mind half way through to "secular" and the combination was made. But from a practical sense, it would be best to move east/west so that we don't have all the Type-X in Floria, and all Type-Y in Maine. Maine is nice and all, but I'd only want to visit in summer/early fall. But east coast for X and West coast for Y, then split the country at the Mississippi or something like that.
Learn to love Alaska
What no one has addressed here is that, after removing the thimerosal, the autism rates in CA during EVERY QUARTER OF THE STUDY continued to rise. Okay, so thimerosal's not the culprit, then what is? Given that the onset of the reported cases of autistism developed shortly after the vaccinations were administered, how can a rational person not think that SOMEthing in vaccines that is linked to autism?
Thimerosal was just a red herring...
"I played Russian Roulette. It went click. People who say it's a dangerous game are morons. Look at me, I survived it."
... do we keep electing these IDIOTS?
Not sure how a random wiki map is proof of anything. It certainly ignores the political reality of MD for at least 100 years. You could certainly make a strong argument during the Civil War, considering the lengths that Lincoln and others had to go to in order to keep a path from DC thru Baltimore up to Philly, but with the exception of some rural areas, MD is fairly blue and fairly northern. (Yes, the Western panhandle, Eastern Shore, and Southern peninsula cover a lot of square miles, the population pales in comparison to the I95 corridor).
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
How do these people end up in positions of power?
Tell them Viagra and Cialis causes autism. Problem solved.
> 6. He's turned his political career into a small fortune
You say this like it's a good thing. Any politician who uses their position to enrich themselves is a thieving, amoral scumbag. They should be in it to serve the people they represent, not to line their own pockets.
The fact that in all the world and all of history I can only think of one poor politician ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mujica ) does not speak well of that particular profession.
What is weird about this "anti vaccination" thread, is I heard about it only on USA. And it's curious, cause it's the most advanced science country.
I'm on a latin country, very religious, but nobody even think to stop vaccination, as we known children with no vaccines that had a lot of problems.
Presumably if vaccinations did cause autism, most slashdotters would be queueing up for extra shots.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
and we all know that asymmetric fire can cause WTC towers to collapse on it's own footprint...
(here be dragons)
1) We have documented proof that Reagan sold them. It's not documented that Bush did it too, and Bush Jr isn't going to investigate Dad in the middle of a war. He'll ignore it and wait until a Democrat does and bash them for partisan bias.
Read what I said again. I know Reagan sold weapons to Iraq. We were propping up Saddam at the time to keep Iran in check.
2) Yeah, but that doesn't matter. He materially supported known enemies of the state.
Iraq wasn't an enemy of the state at the time he supplied them.
And not just Iraq. Reagan trained Osama bin Laden. We'd not have had 9/11 if not for Reagan's support of our "allies" (who were known then to be hostile to us).
Not true.
You might as well say autism is caused by foul aethers.
Only when they get their way into a vaccine :).
Those of us who are educated in science are aware of the studies showing no correlation between vaccines and autism. Those of us a little more informed are even aware of two (two, not hundreds!) court cases in the past 10 years where the court ruled that the vaccine was connected with the onset of autism. Ironically, most anti-vax people are unaware of these cases; they just operate on pure FUD. This is partly because the anti-vas people who ARE aware of these cases are also aware that they do not support THEIR case. For instance, in one case, the little girl had a pre-existing mitocondrial condition, and she would likely have developed autism sooner or later anyway; all the vaccine did was accelerate what was already going on.
The thing is, as long as the ruling turns out in favor of the science (cross your fingers), then debating it in Congress is a good thing because it will force the issue to be explored in a very public forum.
Still, no amount of debate or scientific numbers will convince some people.
Now, as a scientist myself, I have spent my own share of time being baffled by fields not my own. For instance, exactly how physicists predict an unobserved particle to exist according to the standard model is largely a mystery to me. I've read the wikipedia articles, and I understand a fair amount of what I'm reading, but none of it is answering the basic question about how you calculate that there's a missing slot. I did manage to find an interview with Murray Gell-Mann, where he mentioned that he developed the quark model because it greatly simplified modeling the properties of many exotic particles observed in cosmic radiation. So if you can postulate the existance of quarks from observed particles, then you can postulate combinations of quarks not yet observed. But how they predicted the Higgs is completely beyond me; I can't find an explanation anywhere, and I can't glean this from what I have read.
So now, imagine being of average intelligence with a U.S. high school education. Do you think most people will understand the intricacies of immune response? I've met nurses who didn't know what imunoglobulins are, so how can you expect most other people to get it? People aren't going to have the foundation for understanding the basis for any kind of immune response, and now you're introducting something "unnatural." Given all the obesity, linked with our horrible diets, we're been trained culturally to look for things that are "all natural" (even though that too is rather meaningless). Add to that general frustration with the medical system, which generates a resentment for doctors (even when the problems are not their fault).
Interestingly, it goes the other way. You can be TOO well informed about vaccines. We had one pediatrician send us away because we wanted to space our our kids' vaccinations. You see, regardless of any connection to autism, a vaccine does generate an immune response, which causes symptoms, making the patient feel generally pretty lousy for a few days. So we decided to space them out. We're not behind. We just come in more often, getting one at a time. But they have a policy of not accepting patients who won't do vaccines on THEIR schedule.
Finally, some doctors and nutritionists have postulated separately two things: (1) A connection between liver function and autism and also lots of other maladies. The liver filters toxins from your system, and if it can't do it fast enough, you get all kinds of problems. (2) Vaccines are hard on the liver. I'm not sure if that's directly or as a result of the immune response. If you put those together, you might want to consider limiting the rate at which vaccines are given, to avoid overloading the liver (and the immune system and anything else involved).
I've always known that Dennis Kucinich is a tool.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
When a child is born, it is also immediately assaulted by all manner of foreign chemicals, just by touching its environment, sucking on its toes, chewing on its blanket, crawling on the floor, hugging the dog, sniffing the flowers, playing in the dirt, etc, etc, etc... I'd guess the average child encounters a great many more less-than-savory chemicals just in ordinary life than are ever injected into it as part of a full course of vaccines.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Here is my situation.
My home is a duplex. On the main floor my wife and I have a bedroom, and my son-in-law, daughter and three grandkids share the rest of the home.
There is a basement bachelor apartment where I do my Compooter Science stuff, and write some humor.
My second floor is a tenant residence, where my two sons and significant others reside.
Two years ago I took the flu vaccine and the influenza vaccine (the latter is only once per lifetime)
Last year, I choose to take the flu vaccine. The rest of the family poo-pooed the idea, and ignored my pleading.
Well...
My son in law contracted pneumonia, and the flu, one after the other. He had fully congested lungs, and a few days of medium-high fever.
In the period of about two week's the entire house was with the flu, fever. vomiting and bedridden. I was the nurse, as I was the only one to not get ill.
So, do what you wish, but if you are 50+, the vaccine may save your life. Actually, it may save your live no matter your age.
The very first year you take the vaccine, your injection point may be a bit tender for a maximum of three days. Each year thereafter, (booster shots), there is no more reaction after the innoculation.
My wife bowed to my wishes and had the innoculations. My siblings and grandchildren did not. Somehow I think my wife and I will be playing housemaid/nurse this year. My wife says "If she did not take the vaccines and fell ill, she would not have to play nurse". I retorted, being alive is better than the consequences.
In Montreal, the vaccine is free if administered from the family doctor or local health Clinic. If we get the pharmacist to do it, there is a $20.00 charge.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
of course women served overseas, but they damn well weren't permitted on the firing ranges ---- PERIOD --- no amount of falsehoods spread about that alters the truth ---- women's rights were slow in coming --- remember, it was only back in 1972 that a married woman could be a co-signer on a married couple's mortgage loan lease --- and most peculiarly, residential mortgage rates shot up almost overnight, although there hand't been any concurrent increase in demand????
Women weren't in the police, etc., until historically quite recently --- such prattling on about subjects you are ignorant of doesn't suffice. You remind me of all those of the species ignoramus Americanus who offer their blatantly moronic opinions on Lee Oswald without ever having read the 26 volumes of the Warren Commission "report" --- or those who prattle on mindlessly about the causes for the economic meltdown, without having read Angelides and Brooksley Born's FCIC report (online at Stanford as the absolutely corrupt congress refused to put that most valuable report online at a gov site), etc.
sgt_doom
On the dosage thing, it takes a certain number (varying by the virus in question) of particles to generate the desired immune response, regardless of the size/age of the recipient. Half a dose can be worse than none (this is true of distemper vaccine in dogs -- I forget the mechanism, but in short, a poor initial response can prevent a better response from happening in the future). And when you're trying to override maternal antibodies, a very high particle count is best (I don't know to what degree this affects humans, but it's critical for parvovirus protection in puppies).
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Ignore those morons. Talking about them and their ignorance is giving them the attention they crave.
The comment about "In part this is why preventable and potentially fatal diseases like pertussis and measles are once again on the rise." is totally missing a lot in the factual department. First the outbreaks of those diseases were in HEAVILY vaccinated populations. The failure rate amongst vaccinated is very high for whatever reason so you can't blame that on the un-vaccinated infecting everyone else. In the case of pertusis there may have been genetic drift rendering the vaccine less effective.
There are serious issues with vaccines and some just don't plain work worth the risk like the seasonal influenza vaccine. That and all the supposed life saving from it can be written off to the healthy user effect. Maybe if they quit insisting that all vaccines work and admitted their problems and worked on them they would make progress. Then again maybe everyone would say "they didn't know what they were talking about on X so why should I believe them on Y". Sadly I think we are past that point already and that is why there is a growing anti-vax movement. The baby is getting thrown out with the bathwater.
- Cochrane Review - Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults
http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD001269/vaccines-to-prevent-influenza-in-healthy-adults-
- Dr Lisa Jackson's out of season influenza vaccine research
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/2/337.short
Keep in mind that the researchers and doctors at cochrane.org are not anti-vax and have a high opinion of most vaccines and see no link between autism and vaccines.
Americans, that is ; Though we do have "vaccine deniers" on this side of the pond, they are considered to be dribbling oxygen-thieves. Not even
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
/Socialized or public health care is both cheaper and results in better health for citizens./
I'll cite sources and provide links to good graphics.
Let's graph life expectancy for all of the countries in the world and compare it to the total percent of health costs that are paid by private entities. That means paid by commercial insurance or out of pocket expenses.
My source is the United Nations World Health Organization Statistical Information System.
The total combined statistics from all countries can be searched here:
http://apps.who.int/whosis/data/Search.jsp?countries=[Location].Members
but it's a lot easier to understand the data when it is presented as nice graphs.
http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$majorMode=chart$is;shi=t;ly=2003;lb=f;il=t;fs=11;al=30;stl=t;st=t;nsl=t;se=t$wst;tts=C$ts;sp=5.59290322580644;ti=1995$zpv;v=0$inc_x;mmid=XCOORDS;iid=pyj6tScZqmEcXBFxQw8cFaw;by=ind$inc_y;mmid=YCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj2tPLxKvvnNPA;by=ind$inc_s;uniValue=8.21;iid=phAwcNAVuyj0XOoBL_n5tAQ;by=ind$inc_c;uniValue=255;gid=CATID0;by=grp$map_x;scale=lin;dataMin=0;dataMax=99$map_y;scale=lin;dataMin=12;dataMax=83$map_s;sma=49;smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=
It looks like there are only two countries in the world that have longer life expectancy than the USA that also pay more for their health care via private means. They are Cyprus and Singapore. I don't think we want to copy them though.
On the other hand when we look at the top left corner of the graph and hover over the bubbles to reveal the countries, we see that all of the countries with higher life expectancies than the US and less private costs have socialist public health systems.
Now let's look at life expectancy compared to the total percent of health costs that are public. That means paid by government agencies like the socialist health ministries and in the US by medicaid, the VA, social security and the other government agencies. Hover over the bubbles to see what the countries are.
http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$majorMode=chart$is;shi=t;ly=2003;lb=f;il=t;fs=11;al=30;stl=t;st=t;nsl=t;se=t$wst;tts=C$ts;sp=5.59290322580644;ti=1995$zpv;v=0$inc_x;mmid=XCOORDS;iid=pyj6tScZqmEcJI3KBJnrlDQ;by=ind$inc_y;mmid=YCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj2tPLxKvvnNPA;by=ind$inc_s;uniValue=8.21;iid=phAwcNAVuyj0XOoBL_n5tAQ;by=ind$inc_c;uniValue=255;gid=CATID0;by=grp$map_x;scale=lin;dataMin=1;dataMax=100$map_y;scale=lin;dataMin=12;dataMax=83$map_s;sma=49;smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=
See? All the countries with higher life expectancy than the US have a higher percentage of their costs paid via public means and they all have socialist health systems.
Now click on the arrow on the bottom axis of the graph, choose Health, then Health Economics, and then pick from the list. Try total out-of pocket expenses vs life expectancy, Try amount spent per person by government vs life expenctancy and so on. Try a bunch of them or all of them. Change the other axis to compare expenditures vs child mortality, or cancer, or cholesterol or other health metrics besides life expectancy.
When you are done examining this data, I challenge anyone who disagrees to discredit my source, cite a better and contradictory source or interpretation of the data . /socialized or public health care is both cheaper and results in better health for citizens./
Did you know if you take huge quantities of antibiotics, you'll also die?
Or that botulism toxin (botox) is the most deadly poison on the planet?
Also if you take huge quantities of that routine killer, H2O.
Are you aware that dosage level and mechanism of exposure are all important factors in determining toxicity and reactions? Did you read more then the first sentence of that paragraph on wikipedia?
my friend got a CT scan in 30 minutes when they thought he was having a stroke.
I do require an MRI to check for nerve damage in my spine but I'm waiting to see the doctor
One of these things is not like the other.
As mcgrew said, the US pays a monstrous amount more than any other country for "health care," yet gets little relative return on that investment. We're not the longest-living people. Cubans have a life-expectancy a minute fraction below ours and they spend a piddly amount on health care. Who will explain this? Do you still say we're spending our money wisely? What's the secret of those who live the longest? Are we following their lead? Are they ignoring our lead?
Regarding vaccines, let's look at some of the worst killers of the 19th to mid-20th centuries. Measles, typhoid fever, diphtheria, scarlet fever, etc. When was the measles vaccine created? When did mortality rates start dramatically decreasing for measles? After the vaccine was invented in 1963, right? If the vaccine was the salvation of those afflicted, the data should agree, right?. But that's not the case. The measles vaccine was created when mortality rates from measles had already dropped off a cliff (see image below). Scarlet fever? Where did scarlet fever go with no vaccine ever invented for it? Check out the graphs below. It drops by the same levels in the same amount of time as the other diseases I mentioned before vaccines were ever released for them. Where's the data for all these claims about the efficacy of vaccines?
Can we say hygiene has nothing to do with health? Access to clean water? Truly, disease was disappearing before vaccines were invented. Polio graphs will show the same thing. Russell Trall in the 19th century was saving patients from these diseases because he didn't do what everybody else was doing. What did he do? What were his principles? The nurses he trained for the Civil War were saving people's lives, also. What was the secret?
http://www.whale.to/a/image/US-1900-1965.gif
http://www.renewamerica.com/images/columns/071110janak2.gif
A small house in San Francisco costs a lot more than that small fortune.
Are you talking about crazy people or eccentric people? And is eccentricity necessarily craziness?
The false claims made by scientists and reported by scientific publications are totally to blame for the confusion that has flowed down into the general population and into their representatives about the dangers of vaccines as related to autism. It will take years to eliminate and probably thousands of people (mostly children) will suffer needlessly as a result.
Sadly, scientists are too often caught up in the fun of following trends like this and pitching into issues in which they are not directly involved so that the thing snowballs. Perhaps it's an attempt to look smart or appear involved in these latest trends as some kind of ego thing. I don't know.
But the backlash seen about the lies put forward by scientists regarding vaccinations should be a clarion call to all scientists about making extravagent claims that exceed the bounds of the tests performed.
The risk is that the reputation of science will be further, and deservedly, tarnished. Or more importantly, that society will turn its back on advancements that would otherwise provide some positive benefit.
Over the years I, and many others, have bested PhDs at various disciplines --- and I'm not even referring to those PhDs from India who have so much trouble compiling a program.
The web site referenced is owned by a marketing director at Eli Lilly, and the gist of the article was suspect. Too many vaccines have been administered to children at the youngest ages possible, and a number of replicated studies have indicated a causality to autism and other problems due to the great number of administered vaccines. Also, this blind worshipping of corporations as sacrosanct, especially given the ungodly track records of GlaxoSmithKline, Eli Lilly, Merck, Pfizer (which was also involved with the privitization of eminent domain, you'll recall [you'd better damn understand that by this time, sonny]), etc.
want to lower your risk of having kids with autism? have kids in your twenties, don't party and get drunk every other day, keep healthy and have kids naturally without chlamid or invitro or any other procedure
We followed every single stipulation you stated above, including natural childbirth, and our first-born was autistic anyway. Some of your assumptions are wrong. The age distribution for mothers is not weighted towards older women; it's fairly flat. Maybe you're confusing autism with Down's Syndrome?