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Windows 8: a 'Christmas Gift For Someone You Hate'
zacharye writes "Microsoft is no stranger to criticism these days, and the company's new Windows 8 platform is once again the target of a scathing review from a high-profile user. Well-known Internet entrepreneur and MIT professor Philip Greenspun handed Windows 8 one of its most damning reviews yet earlier this week, calling the new operating system a 'Christmas gift for someone you hate.' Greenspun panned almost every aspect of Microsoft's new software, noting that Microsoft had four years to study Android and more than five to examine iOS, but still couldn't build a usable tablet experience..."
Not some blog that quotes the article
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2012/12/05/christmas-gift-for-someone-you-hate-windows-8/
way of expressing said sentiment?
I've always found Dog Crap in a Box(TM) to be both economical AND effective at communicate feelings of loathing and hatred. It's really easy to get book rates on the postage, too.
“Suppose that you are an expert user of Windows NT/XP/Vista/7, an expert user of an iPad, and an expert user of an Android phone you will have no idea how to use Windows 8,” Greenspun wrote.
“Suppose that you are an expert user of Windows NT/XP/Vista/7, an expert user of Windows 8, and an expert user of an Android phone you will have no idea how to use an iPad,” Greenspun wrote.
Seriouslt, playing around with settings,etc is frustratingly hard in iPhones atleast. The basic stuff is on the surface, the rest is 5 km below the surface
We do not even pretend to be impartial now?
The title obviously should be
> Greenspun: Windows 8: a 'Christmas Gift For Someone You Hate'
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
While Im not an advocate of Windows 8, miss information makes me mad too. In the article it said "Some functions, such as ‘start an application’ or ‘restart the computer’ are available only from the tablet interface". I took this to mean the Metro tiles, which if that's what he meant, he is completely wrong. The command prompt is still there. The standard desktop is still there. "Old style" shortcuts still exist. Of course, he complained about that too.
I've always said English was my second language. Had Romeo and Juliet been written in C, I might have understood it.
At the end of his "review" he said he was using Windows 8 on a desktop, not a tablet. "This article is based on using Windows 8 on what may be the best current hardware: Dell XPS One 27 computer with a quad-core i7 CPU, 16 GB of RAM and a solid state hard drive accelerator ($2600). " Well there you go. We all knew there were usability issues on the desktop.
I've been using an Android tablet after I switched away from the iPad. It was TERRIBLE. Android is definitely the worst of all tablet UIs.
Stop using the 79 dollar chinese made resistive screen tablet you bought a Walgreens last Christmas and try a real android tablet or install Cyanogen Mod on an HP Touchpad. Then get back to me.
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
RE: IT wasn't build on marketing
I used to say this years ago.
MS proved that you could sway IT decisions by wining and dining executives of organizations regardless of technical merits of the products.
Soon after, MS products were sold on the lemming effect, alone.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
I really wanted to like it and bought into their promo deal to put it onto my laptop (like $40 for a legit copy of Win 8 Upgrade).
But I've run into the same gripes as him regarding the interface. If you were just in the Modern UI 100% of the time on the tablet it wouldn't be a terrible experience. However, it tries to switch back and forth from that interface to the traditional desktop interface and does so very, very poorly. Even on a tablet this transition is godawful. It's worse on a non-touchscreen laptop.
The new "start menu" just adds more work for me and adds very little value to the experience. This isn't a bad format for a tablet, but when you're on a laptop and not in the Modern UI - forcing the use of that new start menu is just absurd.
Now, it does seem to be a bit more responsive than Windows 7 and has a couple of neat features - for example the taskbar now extends across multiple screens and you can set its behavior to a couple of different methods. It seems to integrate nicely w/ the xbox environment but I'm waiting to see what its full potential will be for that.
Overall there are just a lot of things like "are you friggin serious?". In the land of UI the amount of mouse movement, clicks, and typing is how we define "work" and yet for some reason MS has been wanting to add more work to a lot of the user's tasks. This is something I still don't quite understand. (Look at the office ribbon - despite some of its nice features there are quite a few places where it just managed to add more work for the user to accomplish a task).
So yeah, it's that bad. I don't outright hate it but it's because I've modified a lot of it so far to fit what I'm after. I would absolutely recommend against it for a non geek to upgrade to.
What use would it be to invent something that duplicates iOS or Android?
People would just keep using the original and deny the copy.
It's smart to take features from these systems, but useless to repeat them. Technology is forged by people who find new ways to do useful things. That doesn't mean imitation, it means re-invention.
Microsoft also has a long legacy of Windows products and users to uphold, and has to merge these two.
I realize that liking Windows around here is about as favorably looked upon as non-ironically liking Bruce Springsteen at a hipster party, but demonization for not being a clone is undeserved here.
It's about expressing the amount of hate you feel for the person. It's like expressing love only different.
For instance if you buy your love a bar of chocolate for an anniversary, it will express affection in an underwhelming way, perhaps leading them to believe your affection is as underwhelming as the effort that went into the gift.
Now on the other hand if you go all out and treat them to weekly massage for a year at the local spa so they eventually elope with the sexy massage therapist, then that's a whole other level of showing affection.
I converted my main workstation at work to windows 8 a week ago, mostly in order to learn and get used to it.
While there indeed is a bit of a hassle to change some of the habits from xp, vista and 7 to fit 8, and I really dislike the start panel that has replaced the start menu, it's not really a big deal.
I've put my 20 or so most used applications in the taskbar and pinned my most used folders and files into the respective taskbar icons and changed my "click start menu and open the file or folder"-habit into a "right click the taskbar icon and open the file or folder"-habit.
Also, I've installed regular windows applications as replacements for all the standard windows 8 applications, like vlc instead of the full screen windows 8 movie player, acrobat reader instead of the full screen windows 8 pdf-viewer, etc.
To be honest, I haven't used the start panel at all this entire week, except for going to the desktop after logging in.
On one hand, I've not really seen any of the horrible downsides with windows 8 that everyone talks about. On the other hand, I haven't seen many improvements over windows 7 yet. The new task manager and the new file-copy graph windows are awesome though.
/.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)
I installed it on my ancient Inspiron 640m laptop (bought it in 2006). This is a laptop with no touch screen and no multitouch gestures. Personally, I really don't see why people are so up in arms over Windows 8. A simple Windows+D keystroke takes you into desktop mode and you can choose to remain there as long as you wish. I do hate the removal of the windows launcher in Desktop mode, but there are alternative options out there to get back that functionality.
What I do like is going into the Metro interface when I'm not looking to do intensive work on my laptop. Things are quite snappy, and some of the metro specific apps are quite nice. It isn't a game changer, but I don't get what the hate is about. If my laptop had a touchscreen, I'd probably appreciate the metro component of it a lot more. I also like the limited multiwindow (only 2 really), multitasking in Metro (for a tablet OS...IOS is hopeless, and Android doesn't allow side by side apps either unless you have some heavy duty manufacturer customization a la the Galaxy Note), and the gestures and charms bar, and pretty much all of it works reasonably well even with a mouse (though I can see it being much snappier and more fun with a touch screen).
I agree with the sentiment of many people that it doesn't feel like one cohesive OS...and frankly, I don't think it can or should ever be that. It seems like a great OS for laptops/tablets with touch screens where you can use it like a tablet with the Metro UI and also be very productive on it in your traditional desktop mode. The OS itself is reasonably lightweight (by Windows standards) and seems to run quite well on my ancient laptop.
I do see Win 8 as being very appealing for HTPCs and I am considering installing it on mine. The tiles really lend themselves to HTPC use, and with the introduction of Windows 8, you now have dedicated streaming apps like that from Netflix that are easier to use on an HTPC in comparison to having to resort to a browser and the Netflix website to stream movies/tv shows. So imho, Win 8 seems great for newer touch screen laptops, HTPCs and tablet-laptop hybrid devices. For traditional desktops, there seems to be very limited value in upgrading to Windows 8.
He's not a professor; far from it.
He's an "MIT affiliate" (search People on the MIT home page), which is the loosest form of connection to the Institute.
Note also that the blog he's posted on is at Harvard Law, which says:
"Weblogs at Harvard Law is provided by the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University as a free service to the Harvard community. Anyone with an email address at harvard.edu, radcliffe.edu, or hbs.edu can sign up instantly and be blogging in minutes."
If you search his name in the directory at Harvard's home page, there are no hits.
In other words, he has no significant connection to MIT, doesn't show up at all on Harvard's staff list, and maybe for some reason has a Harvard email address.
The poster was just quoting the blog, which pointed to the original blog, but hey, is 30 seconds worth of fact checking too much to ask?
An Actual MIT Professor.
Like the Magic Trackpad? (I've seen it on PCs, too)
It seems like the number one complaint so far is "It's different, and I don't like to think". That's just lazy, and I tend to discount it immediately.
There are two fairly valid criticisms, however. The first is that by moving functions into various gestures and hidden panels, the discoverability is quite poor. I'm constantly forgetting that the search feature is buried in that "charms" bar, and instinctively look for a search field on the screen somewhere. I'm sure the Microsoft knee-jerk approach to "fixing" this will be to print tips and reminders on the display bezel, which of course won't make any sense when the screen is rotated some other way. Going back to the drawing board and completely re-engineering a concept doesn't seem to be their thing.
Second, the weird desktop/tablet UI dichotomy is baffling. Functions that were previously confined to a small number of places - chiefly the Start menu and Control Panel - are now spread across two "control panels", a hidden "charms" bar, a "Settings" button in that charms bar, and many of these functions bounce back and forth between the tablet or desktop UI, or even duplicate features of one another. Key functionality has also been removed entirely. Where does one view, edit, and reorder the entire list of saved wireless connections? Nowhere, unless you want to use the netsh command!
So while I can appreciate making finger-friendly design considerations, the way they've done it is disjointed and nonsensical. If I had to fix it, I'd allow "Metro" apps to run windowed instead of only full-screen, make it easier to scale up UI elements of "desktop" apps for touch use, get the Control Panel consolidated into a single point of access, and put some of the most common features of the old Start menu directly on the new one, without hiding them off-screen or in menus (Control Panel, Devices and Printers, Run, Computer, Documents, etc). If you change the window manager to act more like the Metro mode when a window is maximized, then you've got a reasonably successful marrying of the two concepts.
For traditional desktop use, it's not at all horrible for an advanced user, and does have some nice performance and usability improvements here and there. For casual home users, it will probably be overly confusing, and leave them shopping for iPads even more than they are already.
Well I think all tablets suck including your precious iPad. Anything outside of that wonderful OS called Emacs is beyond usable.
I think there is also an expectation that Microsoft will fix the Windows 8 flaws... because they have shown in the past the ability to react to negative feedback (i.e. Vista = BAD, Win 7 = GOOD, now Win 8 = CRAP, therefore... Win 9 = teh aw3s0me)
Windows 8, even in release mode, smells like beta testing. The general reaction has been very "ME/Vista"-like. So we expect them to improve it. Will they? That's the real question...
Its not the real question. I barely care but to put Windows 7 in context its Vista released on time; covering up its worse excesses; on hardware that could cope with it better. It still does not look 10 years better than XP [or at least SP2]. Microsoft cannot do that with Windows 8 because the problem is "Metro" on a tablet designed with "Office" in mind, that is a strategy, which you cannot fix with software.
First time I saw Windows 8, I was horrified. It looked utterly awful and I couldn't imagine myself using it on a day to day basis.
However, due to a drive failure, I installed it and thought I'd give it a shot. Once you get past the Start Screen/Page/Menu thing - which is what 99% of the fuss is about - it's not all that bad at all. It is a dogs breakfast though, and does need some refinement. However I haven't had as much fun finding out new stuff in an OS since I got my first OSX box in 2002.
Firstly, I'm currently using it for development on a multi-monitor setup - 3x 24" monitors with one in portrait mode. Windows 8 handles multiple monitors in desktop mode much better than 7, no question about it. The ability to have the Taskbar setup to display programs running on that monitor is a great change.
Secondly, The desktop environment is much cleaner and I'm glad the huge hive of junk that was the Start Menu has gone. The number of times I aimlessly trawled through it to find some obscure program I needed wasted way too much time... Now, I can just pull up the search and find whatever app, then either run it or pin it to the Start Menu/page, or the Taskbar.
Performance is better too. Simple stuff is a lot faster than 7, and running the whole OS from a new 256GB SSD means I can boot in around 12 seconds. Even spindle to spindle file transfers are a lot faster.
You might notice I haven't really mentioned Metro, well that's because I hardly use it. In my view, it feels like a 'fun layer' that you can almost shut out completely when using the desktop for serious stuff. Today I've used it precisely once as I pin all my apps to the Taskbar in pretty much the same way I use the OSX dock. That said, the live tiles are very nice and some of the news and informational apps are good. Overall though, the ecosystem is lacking in content and I really can't see any point when I'd use a Metro app alongside the desktop.
As far as shutdown goes? Simple, I just map the power button to shutdown and don't have to fiddle around in Metro for it.
So, while not a 'fan' of the extreme changes in Windows 8, I am glad I can shut them out to a degree, and can benefit from the underlying changes made to the desktop. It's by no means a Vista though. While I may not like Metro, the underlying OS is solid and works better than Windows 7.
Are you stupid or something? It takes more clicks and more computing resources to do the same things you could in Windows 7. That's stupid no matter how you look at it. Putting flash and prettiness over functionality is Apple's MO, not Microsoft. They completely screwed this one up.
It was just matter of time, the first reviews of windows 8 were mainly from tech magazines/blog that need to keep their microsoft advertising revenue, now more and more real users are finding how painful is to use this two faced operative system. Apple approached the "touch world" with a new OS that share only some API foundations with OSX, while Microsoft touched only the "surface" of the problem, trying to adapt is best horse (windows 7) to the "touch world"... The result is awful, trying to use office on a RT tablet for a few minutes is enough to see how bad it is their tablet solution.... and the amount of "start menu tools" and "corner sensitivity remover" for the desktop version show how bad the metro interface is in a mouse/keyboard enviroment....
You felt so strongly that the "cool" Windows 8 UI is the way of the future and that people who prefer the "old, lame way" are "lazy, old dogs" that you just had to register a Slashdot account today to say it. I respect the strength of your convictions.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
They have a habit of missing the boat on things and then when they realize it, they compensate by embracing it and over doing it. A perfect example was the Web. They completely missed the boat on it in the mid 90's and when they realized it, they reacted by reworking everything they could to be based on http/html and the result was a mess. This time they completely got it wrong on smart phones and tablets and now they are over compensating by trying to turn a desktop into a tablet.
Apple seems to be getting it right by moving the best features of the tablet to the desk top but doing it in a way that makes sense. For example, gestures are great on both, but when it comes to the desktop, you should use a proxy surface such as a touch pad rather than the screen itself. The first fucker that jabs his finger into my monitor to move a window is going to lose it :)
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of MS products, (and I use Win7 everyday, and think it's perfectly fine), my candidate for understatement of the decade.
What was once true, is no longer so
A simple Windows+D keystroke takes you into desktop mode and you can choose to remain there as long as you wish. I do hate the removal of the windows launcher in Desktop mode, but there are alternative options out there to get back that functionality.
This is what's really bugging me about everything I read that has to do with Windows 8, people are constantly making excuses for it.
Seriously, it became ok to remove a feature that seemed to be essential to the system because we can download a third party module that will fix it? Honestly, If there is such a demand for a feature that people have to download an extension to get the feature back, is that maybe something that shouldn't have been removed in the first place? and it's ok that it starts up in "tablet" mode a.k.a "Metro" on a laptop or PC because all you have to do to start getting work done is press Win+D?
To me this all sounds like utter intolerable insanity. Because people keep making excuses it makes me seriously think there's something else going on there and any positive message concerning Win8 needs to be taken with a mountain of salt.
My bet is the first change they'll tote in Windows 9 is the convenient new start menu where applications can be launched without having to use the metro interface. The next thing will be that it starts up in Desktop mode on Laptops and PCs by default and Metro on tables and phones.
This is simply not true.
I am not suggesting that MS will do well with their hardware products. And you are right in that MS now appears to hold sway with IT. However, that is far from how they started out.
For those who have long enough memories, there was an MS versus IBM world, with MSDOS versus IBM's DOS (Disk Operating System, not Denial Of Service). IBM held the corporate IT guys. MSDOS had no one but the masses to appeal to. The MSDOS was just as good and was nearly half the price. IBM with their hubris thought the masses would stick with IBM because they were IBM. The MSDOS got good reviews so the masses went for the much cheaper DOS. That is how MS grew so large and so fast. A few years later it was an MS NT versus IBM OS2. Both were hard to install, but huge numbers of people could not install OS2, and small numbers could not install NT. To add insult to injury, the free phone help ("fulfillment") numbers IBM published lead me to a phone number I would have to pay for. Needless to say I sent my OS2 back and purchased NT.
Microsoft won because Microsoft had a much better, faster and cheaper product. Sadly, that was then. This is now.
It's an abomination of the highest order designed by programmers who have no clue of what they're doing and violating the first rule of IT that should never be broken: Never let programmers design your applications.
Actually, the abominations that are Windows 8, Lion and Mountain Lion, Unity, and Gnome 3 are the result of people buying into your line.
So called UI experts suck, and it's far preferable to let a programmer design the UI. At least it will be practical, even if it's not pretty.
What exactly about iOS is hard to use?
You mean aside from requiring reasonably up-to-date Mac or Windows machine to run iTunes on? (note that's two problems there, not one)
Every time I touch iTunes I end up wanting to MURDERDEATHKILL every single developer involved.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
No people are not complain about different, ios is different..Andoirsd is different, people seen not only to like these interfaces they LOVE them. I'm pretty much tired of blaming the users for bad UI choices. Its not just a windows 8 thing.
Since I've recently passed the 40 year mark, maybe that puts me in that "old dog" category now? But I still work in I.T. supporting multiple platforms and systems, and I think I'm still pretty good at figuring out new UIs and upgrades to applications.
Nonetheless, I absolutely agree with Greenspun's blog on this. It's not so much a debate on whether the old START menu or the new tiles screen is more useful. It's a design issue/problem, where the radically new tiled UI feels like it's crudely bolted onto the traditional desktop UI. I feel like in Windows 8, I'm really running two different operating systems in tandem on a desktop machine, except the integration between them isn't even as tight as recent versions of a product like Parallels Desktop or VMWare Fusion for Mac OS X gives you when running virtual Windows 7 sessions inside them!
For example, the tiled UI happily displays icons for apps like MS Office, which actually install and run from the Windows 7 style desktop side of things, yet it's possible to install web browsers which act completely independent of each other in the two UI's. To access them from both the tiles and the desktop side, you have to install them twice!
Innovation is generally incremental. The iPod was not the first MP3 player; they just perfected it. The same is true of many MSFT products.
Microsoft also unified the computer market with Windows back in the 1990s. Before that, it was sheer chaos and incompatibility. Windows and FAT32 gave the world a standard.
While many people dislike it, Microsoft Office was the first complete and integrated office suite to include all the functions needed in an average office. It took it some years to get good, but now it's the standard.
Windows 95 gave us real multitasking at a time when you could freeze a Macintosh by holding down the mouse button.
Come to think of it, the 'softies have done a lot of good things.
And then there's Microsoft Research and Microsoft Press.
Why for god's sake is Metro UI on Server 2012? I will never install this onto a tablet, and you can't pass tablet gestures through RDP. What the hell were they thinking? Praying that 2012 R2 removes this crap.
Selex
Do you know you can type the name of the program, or area of the settings you're after? Geeks should love this, since it's much easier to operate with the keyboard than previous versions of windows. Searching by typing a few letters vs hunting through menus is easier, period.
The exact same thing is available in Windows 7.
Look at the office ribbon - despite some of its nice features there are quite a few places where it just managed to add more work for the user to accomplish a task
Yeah, for a while I disliked ribbons, but then I realized the true problems aren't ribbons. Ribbons are great in their place, but the way Microsoft uses them is horrible.
There's nothing wrong with ribbons, it's just the standard Microsoft UI.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
This is simply not true.
Speaking of which...
For those who have long enough memories, there was an MS versus IBM world, with MSDOS versus IBM's DOS (Disk Operating System, not Denial Of Service). IBM held the corporate IT guys. MSDOS had no one but the masses to appeal to. The MSDOS was just as good and was nearly half the price. IBM with their hubris thought the masses would stick with IBM because they were IBM. The MSDOS got good reviews so the masses went for the much cheaper DOS.
Microsoft won because Microsoft had a much better, faster and cheaper product. Sadly, that was then. This is now.
Nonsense. MS DOS succeeded so well because MS negotiated per-CPU licenses rather than per-install. Ergo, anyone who installed PC DOS or DR DOS on their shipping units paid double for the privilege.
That was then, and this is now.
Linux Mint impressed me. It's Ubuntu-based, so it still has the training wheels, but it has a sane interface (I prefer Mate to Cinnamon). It's still a little sluggish though.
Personally, I just use Debian. It's grouchy at first and takes a little time to get it how you want it, but after that it stays out of your way.
I see the Windows 8 hate train is making daily stops here.
I wonder how many have actually used the damn OS. I installed it well over a month ago on a 5+ year old Dell. My impression has been that it's a fabulous OS. It does away with a lot of the clutter and performs extremely well. I think gesture control has been implemented very well, not once have I felt like lacking a touchscreen has compromised my experience. I like the tile interface and don't find it cumbersome at all to switch between apps, it's certainly a lot better than Apple's attempts at full screen mode.
For your average consumer who doesn't do much more than browse the web, check emails and maybe use Office it's going to offer a clean, intuitive experience. One of the biggest turn offs for Windows has always been that users feel like they're fighting the OS, that the inner workings rise to the surface far too often. It's been one of the appealing attributes of OSX and definitely iOS. So Windows 8 runs with that concept and offers great online integration. Even your average office worker who spends their entire day with Outlook or Office is going to get a better experience with this OS. And given that you can clear out the start screen of everything except the essentials, it will make things even easier for them.
The nature of my work, however, demands that I work in a windowed environment. Being constrained to full screen mode is cumbersome. Windows 8 does offer desktop mode, and for anyone so repulsed by the tiles, you can use your start screen strictly as a glorified start bar, if at all. But I do agree that there's a bit of a disconnect between the two modes. Transitioning between the two isn't too bad, but there really should be a way for those metro apps to jump switch to windowed.
I'm not suggesting anyone needs to like the new OS, but at least look being the Microsoft bias and appreciate what they're trying to do. The problems are there, but it's not the sort of thing that's going to be evident in a cursory review.
While the integration is nice, it also turns things into a bit of a mess. I've ended up with a lot of duplicated contact info which I've yet to sort through. And the problem is that linking accounts is dangerous because it's far too aggressive in looking for similarities. Sometimes it will link accounts merely because two individuals have the same first name. And if you have a lot of contacts it gets overwhelming trying to fix it all. My Android phone did a lot better job with this.
Messaging and Skype is a bit of a mess. I'm currently in a situation where the few Messenger I still have and I see each other as offline regardless of our actual status. And the rampant linking of accounts makes it difficult to sort things out, especially if you've got stuff like Facebook tied into it. You can link Skype to your account but once you've done so it's permanently link. To separate it from your Microsoft account you actually have to get in touch with customer support.
Early on I had an issue where despite being logged into Xbox Live games weren't seeing this and wouldn't log in. The problem there is that instead of spitting back a message the games would just crash. Eventually it all just started working; I'm not sure what I did, if anything, to fix it.
The way bookmarks are handled in the metro version of Explorer is a joke. It gives you this impractically long band of bookmarks you're supposed to sift through.
If you're going to complain about Microsoft at least find a target that makes sense. I think from a fundamental UI standpoint Windows 8 is great. It's in the details and always have been in the details that Microsoft stumbles. My overall experience is great, but then I run into an issue, or some intuitive hiccup and there's this creeping sense that there's an insurmountable mess just hiding under the surface.
But then, I fire up GIMP on my Mac and am reminded of how miserable an experience open source can be. And I'm running one of the more highly recommended packages. Sure,
Me too, except for OS/2, which scared me off. The "good old days" were good not for the products in them, but how good they were for the time, especially in contrast to what came before.
I don't think I'd want to trade today's OSs for some of those older, chaotic days.
Another way to view this is that they understand what's current now, and change forces them to learn new things, at which they might not be as competent. They're afraid of that, understandably.
I'm more likely to take the word of a retired MIT prof than a drooling journalist or fanboi who says "ZOMG, this is the best thing evar". I can at least understand his evaluation criteria.
I remember 1984. And I remember there were Macintosh computers. But in all honesty, I've used a Mac maybe 4 times in my life. I saw OSX once over someone's shoulder.
And, if a 28 year old example is the best you can come up with, you're going to have to try harder.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Instead of whining how about trying to add something positive to the discussion instead? The fact that you are obsessed with the messenger instead of the message proves you are being an Arrogant Cunt. Grow the fuck up.
Bringing this thread back on topic ...
. /oblg. Joke: "I heard they were renaming 'Windows' to 'Window' because that is all you can have open in new version!" (rimshot)
Looks like other people are running into the same retarded Win 8 design ...
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/gadgetbox/8-worst-windows-8-annoyances-how-fix-them-962136
I also see Microsoft is copying Unix now via shutdown ... LOL /r /t 0"
"shutdown
Microsoft had a great little OS on their hands. It works better on the same hardware than the rock solid Windows 7 and incorporates real performance and useability improvements.
All they had to do to have made Windows 8 a great success on both existing and next-generation devices was:
1. Default to the desktop on systems that don't have a touchscreen.
2. Bring back the start menu.
Simple! Yet, they but on the blinders, and said to themselves 'we can be like Apple too' and proceeded to completely alienate their existing user base in favor of a user base that hasn't been proven to exist (touchscreen device users who prefer Metro to Android or iOS).
For what it's worth, I happily use Windows 8 with the free Classic Shell utility that resolves Microsoft's blunders.
So they took away the start menu: the simple list of programs you have installed.
So in Windows 8, how do you find the program you installed 6 months ago, but you forgot the program's name?
This use case, finding an old forgotten program, is the only thing I use the Start Menu for.
Running a Nexus 7 on 4.2, i wholly disagree. Android still isnt as slick and smooth as an ipad 2 or above or even iphone 4S. Now this is like comparing luxury packages on a Mercedes versus BMW, but overall, iOS is still smoother and more responsive.
Good-bye
. Its as if they dont even care that windows 8 is more efficient and faster than windows 7.
Can't speak for the others, but I sure as hell don't. What's the point in squeaking out an extra 5% faster speed when idiotic UI design makes everything I do take 20% longer anyway.
There's a reason people use PCs for actual work, and not tablets. Trying to make the PC act like a tablet was a bloody stupid decision when Ubuntu did it, and it's no more intelligent when Micky does it. Even less so, since they've actually got something to lose.
...says the guy who has literally never posted anything other than about how Windows 8, Surface, and IE10 are much better than the competition (and the older products they're replacing).
Free tip to shills (and yes, I'm calling you a shill): mix it up a little. Talk about something funny at work. Mention a local restaurant. Make a car analogy. Just don't come in and make comment after predictable comment saying the exact same thing.
And in the unlikely event that you're not a shill? Get a hobby. Seriously. There is more to life than the most recent software releases of any megacorporation. Explore your other interests a little. It's a big world!
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
What exactly was taken away? The start button?
Seriously. When you have a start button, you do the following:
move your mouse to the bottom left corner of the screen,
click it,
move your mouse to the app you want to open,
click it.
In Windows 8 it works like this:
move your mouse to the bottom left corner of the screen,
click it,
move your mouse to the app you want to open,
click it.
It's the exact same. I swear the people complaining about this stuff aren't actually using it. I always feel like I'm using a different product than the one people are reviewing.
Sheesh, it seems that every post that is pro-microsoft gets these types of personal attacks. I imagine the typical slashdot user as a grumpy old man; the type of person who used to complain about windows saying that DOS was far superior. And, complaining about new users? Seriously? Still upset about the long September? No, Windows 8 isn't perfect, but accusing people who like it of being shills is silly.
Windows 8 is better than 7 in every way.
I've moved a lot of customers from XP to 7. Most of the time it's been very easy, and there have been few questions, because in general, 7 acts mostly like XP.
With 8 so far, it has not been as easy. Yes, they can do most of what they do, but then something will run into an odd behavior and I get a call. Far more then XP to 7 ever did.
So if there is one thing that 8 is better then 7 at doing it's...
Confusing the living fuck out of Microsoft customers.
But thats just it, it seems essential but its not!
If it seems essential, millions of users are screaming "we need it" and third parties are writing extensions to put it back, it was essential. The start menu is a nicely organized hierarchical structure where it's easy to find applications I might not necessarily know the name of off the top of my head.
The Metro interface looks like my daughter ate a box of crayons and barfed on several place mats. There are so many issues I could literally type a fifty page document on how not to do usability when designing an interface for human computer interaction.
Not to mention from what I've read and seen demonstrated the Metro interface could possibly be used as advertising platform by constantly updating tiles to display new sales, promotions, etc... You know marketing firms will take full advantage of that. Who wants to read dozens of advertisements when you're trying to find an application to do work with?
Please don't go around tell everyone out there the start menu isn't essential to them because you don't use it. I might as well go around saying cars don't need blinkers because my father-in-law doesn't use them.
In windows 8 it works more like this...
You poke at the bottom left corner for the square to pop up and click it. /r /t 0' rather then poke around to get the shutdown menu to show up.
You look for the app you want to open it's not there???
You ask a friend about it...
You now know to right click.
You right click on the desktop
You drag your mouse from the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen to click all apps.
You click all apps.
The app you want is closer to the left side of the screen now, so you drag your mouse back to the left side and
click it.
You make a shortcut on your desktop so you don't have to deal with that shit again.
You also make a batch file on your desktop containing 'shutdown
I'm guessing you are using a different product then I'm running. 'Cause I just described the Windows 8 I am using.
I'm going to risk getting hammered for this, but the Ribbon actually did work. The key, however, was you had to be someone with no prior experience with MS software. It was more intuitive if you were completely unexposed to prior ways of doing things.
I actually liked it, because once you figured that out, things were a bit more simple. You just had to pretend like you were an idiot-- (insert jokes here).
But since that sort of "non knowledge" is impossible to find, everyone hated it.
Next time you run into the ribbon, try that.
Until recently, being a rather old /.-er, I have spun fun about and around W8. I know too well what it takes to be a nerd, and a member of Slashdot (aside of the few who try to post reasonable stuff, paid handsomely by the evil empire).
Finally I took the leap, and actually installed an original version (not OEM, neither pirated) on my box. My partner started a row with me, when after a few hours, I seemingly unmotivated exclaimed OMG! while she was in deep concentration. Done. Finished. Whatta crap!
From now on I can honestly state 'been there, done it, useless'. Okay, not totally, it actually installs fast, boots significantly faster than W7. But that's the end already. Being a CS person, I could even navigate the two disparaging screens. And still, no need I would ever want to again. I don't miss a 'Start'-button (my KDE is configured to do totally without), I love screen edges (my interface is configured to let me do most stuff with edge events). The time - bang-bang - comes in like I was visually impaired, the address bar of IE looks likewise. The logon screen is okay, fresh and inviting. But the two non-unify-able interface constructions, with a bit of toggling switches left and right and a bit of traditional radio-boxes; no, OMG!
If it was free (of charge), I'd discourage using it, because 'there are better interfaces'. But someone paying actual money for a rabid mixture of unfinished substances ought to have her head examined.
Ummm.... yeah, you're full of shit. Very aggressive shit, by the look of it, but still shit.
Right-Click in the lower left corner (where Start appears), select Control Panel. Behold, the control panel appears (you can do this from anywhere, but it's typically something you'd do on the desktop since it's a right-click). There's a ton of other stuff on this menu too, including some that are harder to reach in Win7, such as an Admin command prompt or the Programs and Features (add/remove programs) control panel. It can also be used to jump straight to the desktop from any app, incidentally.
There are so many ways to shut down the computer it's crazy. Alt+F4 on the desktop. The Ctrl+Alt+Del screen shows the Power button. Lock screen shows the Power button. If you are an "expert user" like this idiot in the article is ranting about, you'd know how to use the Shutdown[.exe] command; you can call it from the Run dialog or add shortcuts to it (on either the Start screen or the desktop, of both if you want). In fact, you can even add a shortcut key chord (Win+Ctrl+S, perhaps) to trigger those shortcuts. If you can tolerate the presence of the Charms bar and just don't like the ever-so-offensive concept of a tablet-like gesture to display it, try Win+I to display Setting immediately, at which point Shutdown or Restart are two clicks away.
Seriously, did your brain calcify or something, resulting in frothing at the mouth without even *trying* to look for the things you claim "ARE NO LONGER" present?
Other things that your so-called "absolutely correct" review got, in fact, completely bone-headedly wrong:
Let's start with this beauty, from near the top. First of all, Microsoft requires the presence of a hardware Start button on RT devices. Call it a "Home" button if it makes you happier; I've heard even a few Microsofties do so (I live in Seattle; there's a lot of them here; I'm not one myself). Second, you can always access Start from anywhere with at worst a small gesture. If you're using Touch, swipe in from the right side of the screen and tap the Start button that probably appeared right under your thumb. If you're using the mouse, move down to the lower-left corner (where the Start button would be on the desktop) and lo and behold, a Start button appears!
Perhaps it slipped this... enlightened gentleman's notice, but the App Bar (that thing that appears on the bottom of the screen when you swipe from either the top or the bottom) is context sensitive. It's intended to be a more graphical and touch-friendly replacement for context menus. I don't think it's as good an implementation of a context-based interface, personally, but it's not missing.
We've mostly been over this ground already, but I wanted to point out that starting a program totally doesn't require using a tablet interface. If you like icons, put some on the desktop or put them on the taskbar (exactly like in Win7). If you prefer the keyboard, tap the Start key and type the first few letters of the program name, then hit Enter; you can be launching the program (and back on the desktop) before that oh-so-offensive tablet interface finishes its half-second fade-in animation. You can also use Run from the desktop, via Win+R (as before) or right-clicking the Start button or hitting Ctrl+X to bring up the menu, then selecting Run. You can certainly use the command line interfaces too.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Much to my surprise, I am furious every time I read a scathing review about Windows 8. I rarely get emotional about these things because opinions are opinions. But, I'm becoming overwhelmed with the misrepresentation of Windows 8. I know it won't matter to most people that read this comment, but I've been working on the Windows platform as a systems engineer for over 15 years - since Windows 3.1. Windows 8 is absolutely amazing. It is fast, powerful, and has so many optimization and configuration options, one might think you could turn your home PC into a nuclear reactor once you get into the guts of the OS. I'll keep this rant as short as possible by focusing on what seems to be the single biggest gripe amongst the critics: the Start Menu.
Pretend for a second that you log on to your Windows 7 machine and press your Windows key. Visualize it, please (or do it). You'll see the little menu pop up with a vertical list of pinned shortcuts and "first tier" applications. To browse this menu, you must drill down and/or across to locate applications. It's a functional, familiar, yet messy way of accessing your applications. In Windows 8, the Start menu is still there! Only you are transported "into" the Start Menu when you hit the Windows key. It is simply a revisualization of the clunky-old Windows Start Menu of yore. The Windows 8 Start menu is fully customizable, just like before. The Windows 8 Start menu is fully scalable, just like before. The Windows 8 Start menu contains all of your applications, just like before. Only now with Windows 8, you can gracefully and quickly swipe across menus and access your applications extremely quickly and efficiently. With the Live Tiles, instead of seeing stagnant shortcut icons, you have up-to-the-second information. News, weather, mail notifications, system information all being updated within the Live Tiles to provide the user with at-a-glance information about the things important to us. Press the Windows key again and the Start Menu closes and you're presented with your Desktop, which is the same way it's always been. It's brilliant and incredibly simplistic. The more you use it, the more the powers of the split screen functionality and on-demand access to your apps become apparent.
Critics make the mistake of visualizing Windows 8 as some sort of "dual operating system" monstrosity. It's not. The Start Screen isn't an alternate universe. It isn't segregated. They talk like the user is forced to operate two disconnected operating systems at the same time. It isn't at all, unless you would argue that the Start Menu prior to Windows 8 suffered from this same problem. Please listen, folks: from a User standpoint, Windows 8 is simply Windows 7 with an updated Start Menu. That's it. And once you see it and begin to use it as such, you'll find that not only is the new Start Menu incredibly powerful and intuitive, but Windows 8 is absolutely the best version of Windows yet. My one gripe is that IE10 within the Start Menu could use some love. I’m using Chrome instead because accessing the bottom panel to get to my shortcuts is a pain.