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VLC Running Kickstarter Campaign To Fund Native Windows 8 App
New submitter aaron44126 writes "Some VLC developers have launched a Kickstarter campaign to fund the development of a native port of VLC as a Windows 8 app. The goal is to create an app with a UI that fits into the rest of the Windows 8 ecosystem that supports the playback of all of the types of files that VLC already supports. Playback of optical media (DVD/VCD/BD) is also on the list. They hope to use as much existing code as possible while doing whatever necessary to get VLC running in the 'Metro' environment and meet Microsoft's requirements for distribution through the Windows Store. Porting to ARM so that it can run on Windows RT devices will happen after the Windows 8 app is complete. The campaign has actually been going on for almost two weeks but they published their first update yesterday, in which they announced their intent to produce a Windows Phone 8 port as well."
I'm not going to contribute. Not because I don't like VLC, I do. But because I don't support windows 8.
What is the situation with the source/GPL?
"Any code touching the user interface created within this endeavor will be licensed under the GNU General Public License Version 2 or later (GPLv2+), possibly with an exception for the Windows Store if needed."
I remember vaguely that there once was a VLC for iOS around before some internal debate about whether or not this sort of port was acceptable with the GPL caused apple to remove it. Exception for Windows Store? How should that work out then?
I'll confess to having two Windows 8 systems now. The metro apps are a PITA to use. If via mouse, it keeps making me move the cursor across larger distances. With touch it frequently demads I hit small scrollbars to move the viewport (I usually just touch and drag the pane in android apps). In general, app launch from another app seems to work, but you can't get back to previous app without either alt-tab or via start menu (sounds trivial, but consider an xbmc or mythfrontend scenario where the goal if for the launched apps to almost appear as another function of the launcher rather than an entirely different application).
Why would any sane person donate to have VLC ported to Windows8? If MS wants windows8 to succeed have them pay for the development.
Like I would give money to improve that POS OS.
a VLC streamer app that lets me stream videos to my iOS devices from my home PCs. I'm sure it's possible through some technical hacks, but the VLC server that I have right now by default works or is said to work that I can only stream on my local network.
Why?
Oh I see. The kickstarter money is compensation for the people that try to use VLC on Windows 8.
I am a big fan of VLC. I've been using Linux for about 10 years and when other things fail to play videos, VLC succeeds.
When I am on a Windows box, there is plenty of software to play anything.
What benefit is there, for end users, for porting VLC to Windows?
I'm a long time user of VLC. I use it on windows 8 currently. I don't want to see a metro version because metro apps are full screen only, and that's not for me. The regular VLC works just fine in win8 so basically they're raising money to more or less create a VLC skin...
On the other hand it could end up being the first metro app that's worth a flip. Every one I've tried so far has serious technical problems (for example Netflix and Skype).
As an aside, it's worth noting that even MS doesn't take metro seriously when it comes to actually selling applications. Office 2013 apps are desktop mode. Visio 2013 is desktop mode. Visual Studio 2012 is desktop mode. See a pattern here?
VLC is one of those must-haves on any newly reformatted system. They've done an excellent job of making a player that Just Works, for every single format I could encounter in the field. I use it as a simple video player, but in the many years that I've been using it, I've only encountered one format ever that even VLC threw up its hands and refused to play. They're constantly updating performance, threading capability, offering all kinds of new features and options well beyond what I use VLC for. Since Windows stopped bundling a lot of DVD software natively, they've been the go-to software of choice for close to a decade, and they deserve to have their efforts and their project rewarded with solid backing, since they've managed to navigate through the morass of codecs and incompatible formats, while remaining lightweight, intuitive, and universally functional. Good luck guys =)!
With API restrictions for Metro apps, is this even worth while?
One of the prizes is a "VLC for Win8" T-shirt.
Who the hell would want to wear a T-shirt that was anything at all to do with Win8? Can you imagine going out in public wearing a T-shirt that said "I heart Windows Vista" or "Clippy is my co-pilot"?
Personally, I have no interest in funding that so they won't see a red cent from me to _that_ end. But it does have a market:
1,177 backers
£15,709 pledged of £40,000 goal
17 days to go
I can only hope that it doesn't take non-monetary resources (e.g. core developer hours and attention) away from mainline VLC development. Some features like DVD menus still need work.
Why would anybody in their right mind want to *support* the Metro UI? It's downright detrimental both to the desktop user experience and to the future of the PC as an open platform. If app makers continue to ignore it (like most have so far), it will probably go away like many of Microsofts other missteps.
I would pay good money for them to *not* support Metro UI.
1) Fix VLC first. There are still a lot of outstanding issues and I encounter DVD's every day that PowerDVD will play but VLC will just crash on. Usually, literally, in the first moments. We're not talking obscure movies, either, but current new DVD releases.
I remember an almighty-long wait for VLC to put back in functionality to ignore keyboard hotkeys after committing code that made pressing the volume button on your computer adjust both system volume and VLC volume and it was possible to get to a state where it was impossible to unmute both. The unofficial patch that circulated took forever to make its way into the client stables.
I also get a lot of random crashes and hangs when viewing content that, after killing the process, will work fine. I also have found it almost impossible to stream things properly without having to know a myriad technical details about what I'm streaming from / to, a large part of which VLC could automate for me. I spent an hour yesterday figuring out the command-line (yep, I gave up on the GUI quite quickly after several tests resulted in nothing) to stream my desktop (via VLC's built-in "screen" source) and local Stereo Mix audio to a network-accessible stream to a VLC player on a remote machine. I gave up in the end and did things another way.
Don't get me started on things like DVD navigation (easy to "go in circles" on a lot of DVD menus), obscure formats that still error, playlist management, etc. Do I hate VLC? No, it's the only media player I install and one of the first things I do on any fresh machine, and I often give people Portable VLC for when they just want to play an obscure video file once (e.g. CCTV recordings, etc.). Which makes it even MORE annoying that these things are still present.
2) VLC works on Windows 8. What you mean is "Metro", and nobody cares about that.
3) The delivery promises are rubbish. I wouldn't touch it even if it was something I wanted - they don't even know if the license is compatible, the toolchain can exist, the app would ever be accepted, the API's exposed are enough, or whether the performance wouldn't suffer atrociously - but the kickstarter doesn't mean you'll get your money back if they can't.
You could pay a fortune, still not see any app, and not see any money back. (Some would say that's par-for-the-course on Kickstarter, but if you use your brain and support only those people who make particular promises and are likely to deliver on them, it's no worse than doing the same anywhere else).
Sorry, I'd rather donate GBP20 to VLC itself and get some of my bugbears fixed, thanks. Still can't quite believe that I can pretty reliably crash the client just by turning on certain visualisations when I get *ZERO* problems in any other program, media-player, game or anything else.
Using free software on a platform where you are not free to run a modified version of that software, because Microsoft dictates that you are allowed to install only apps from the official store (and of course Microsoft has the final word of what gets included or not in the store).
No thanks, this is crazy and I'm not going to contribute.
It plays anything I have thrown at it, takes up less resources and disc space, and isn't constantly loading updates and security patches.
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Nice and fast. But those full-screen, pastel-colored apps? No thanks. Don't bother, VLC. "How do I avoid these full-screen programs" is the first question I get when I'm helping someone with a new Windows 8 laptop.
As many others have said VLC is a very reliable piece of software and plays all kinds of formats and makes a good effort on even damaged or incomplete files.
Having said that it is an ugly beast of a program, it has gone through a version developed with WxWidgets and more recently Qt and it has many more skins and versions on top of that. The keybindings are not consistent with anything I've used before (for example I regularly hit Ctrl+W for close and instead the streaming Wizard pops up). So while I commend their technical achievements that last thing I want to see is the VLC team trying to write yet another user interface when even the primary user interface is an ugly mess. When others describe VLC as intuitive I can only wonder what they have been using that it seems intuitive by comparison?
If it gets going at all, maybe this project will fall out of use like so many other VLC side projects. They really should stick to what their good at, and not embark on yet another interface project.
Windows8 desktop is still the same old desktop and works just fine. Metro applications are useless.
I'm somewhat familiar with the terms and conditions involved w/Windows Store apps, and my first reaction was, "Is this even possible?"
Assuming you think having VLC run in TIFKAM (The Interface Formerly Known As Metro) is an important/necessary thing (I guess some people want that), they're talking about having people pledge thousands of dollars for what is essentially a shot in the dark. The Kickstarter page lists many of my own concerns:
A goal of this port is the inclusion in the Windows Store. While we think it is feasible, there is a significant number of forbidden API calls, so in theory, VLC for Windows 8 might not be applicable for the store. We will do our best to achieve a successful publication on the store, so side loading isn't needed.
VLC for Windows 8 will be licensed under both the GPLv2+ and the LGPL2.1+ depending on the respective code functionality. It is still subject to thorough checks whether these licenses are compatible with the Windows Store's terms of service. Publication on the store depends on the results of this investigation.
Note that the new "official" name for TIFKAM apps is "Windows Store Apps." You're meant to load them from the Windows Store. That's supposed to be part of what makes TIFKAM apps "so great." All of the apps in the Windows Store have been vetted by Microsoft, thus they're guaranteed to have met a lot of conditions. An app that doesn't meet these conditions doesn't get to be in the Store.
These conditions include UI and performance standards. From what I've seen of the VLC UI, there is no way that it will be accepted by Microsoft if it wants to include all of its current features and settings. Even apps that do comply seem to have a hard time getting approved. The VLC guys say they're using "forbidden API calls" -- forget about it. They will not get that app running on Windows RT, and I doubt there's a snowball's chance in hell of getting it approved for the Windows Store.
No approval, no Windows Store. No Windows Store, no Windows Store app. There are ways to sideload TIFKAM apps, but they're designed for enterprise customers. As I understand it, to make it possible to sideload apps on a Windows 8 machine, you need to install a special product key on each client machine to allow that. Regular customers can't sideload apps -- or, if there's a way to do it, it involves some elaborate hack.
So in a nutshell, if the VLC group can't get its TIFKAM app into the Windows Store, it's basically dead in the water. They can develop it, but the only people who will be able to deploy it will be the 5% of users who are willing to do whatever ugly, dangerous hacks are necessary to sideload apps onto their Windows 8 machines. Microsoft has cautioned that it might get even harder to sideload apps in future versions of Windows, too.
So remind me again what we're paying for, here? For a total blind gamble?
Breakfast served all day!
I'm sorry, but I will not support this.
VLC claims to be an open source and free software project. You volunteer your time/donate money to the project via a tip jar. VLC was going to be doing a windows 8 port regardless of if they had money or not.
Kickstarter is for getting ideas or specific projects off the ground that are only hindered by the lack of funds.
Shame on VLC for selling out their principles and leaving the RMS "free software environment"
Shame on Kickstarter for acccepting a project that is an anethema to the the "We allow creative projects in the worlds of Art, Comics, Dance, Design, Fashion, Film, Food, Games, Music, Photography, Publishing, Technology, and Theater." philosophy they support.
If it takes as long to port as it did/does for GTV, don't hold your breath. After saying the code was complete, there still isn't a release for those processors. Got some donations for that too. Obviously, no performance clause involved.
These guiys dont seem to care about winbloat and their walledgarden 2.0
Now i wont even need to think of, what to use: mplayer or vlc.
vlc just disqualified itself.
They see a vulnerable market segment of enthusiastic users who are grasping at straws, and they know they can rake in a little cash from it. It's smart, and it will probably work out pretty well. Knowing VLC's cross-platform habit, I'm imagining the work that comes out of this will benefit other phone/tablet platforms that use metro-like mechanics more effectively than windows 8...ahem...android/ios.
I'm actively avoiding donating any money to anything that helps make Windows become relevant.
FTFY
I don't see how this helps average Windows users in any way. Most people who have a choice will be staying with Windows 7, and even those who are stuck with Windows 8 for whatever reason can still run VLC just fine on the Desktop. (Like all other x86 software it won't run on WinRT, but WinRT is dead on arrival.) Metro needs to be killed quickly, and it's baffling as to why an open source project would try to prop it up.
If VLC wants to fund a Kickstarter, putting more resources into Blu-Ray menu support would be a much better choice. This is one thing that open-source software still can't do, and is one of the remaining barriers to a truly competitive open-source media player.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
1- If you donate to this then you are donating to increase the use of windows 8. WIndows 8 should just die off and be replaced with a superior operating system. Kind of like how vista sucked, it wasnt supported and it wasnt long before windows 7 (the best windows yet) came along. So if you donate to this then you are donating to help keep windows 8 alive. So if I am against donating to this because I dont want to encourage people to use windows 8. I want microsoft to make a proper operating system.
2- VLC has always been free to download and use, they even have the source code free. Why all the sudden should we start paying/donating to get another free version?
3- Windows media player with a codec pack is far superior than VLC. There is nothing that I cant play in windows media player right now because I use the shark 007 codec pack for it (which there is a windows 8 version of it) and I suppliment it with .flv codec and divx codec downloaded seperately. WMP gives me very easy to use playback with a lot of options and since its a core part of windows I never have compatibility issues when running it. A lot of people dog it simply for being a microsoft product because they are contrary and have to automatically be against whatever is popular but for me it does exactly what I need a whole lot I dont. And those codecs I mentioned are 100% free.
This has never made any sense to me whatsoever
Why do FOSS developers waste their time porting their hard work to Windows, of all platforms? Windows use have access to anything they want whereas Linux and UNIX-like users do not. Even if they wanted the proprietary crap offered to Windows users, in many cases it's not an option for us.
So... Lets make Windows even more appealing by porting the good FOSS applications to Windows? Brilliant...
Here's a crazy idea.. Why don't we just work on making VLC better for the Linux users? You know, it's firefox pluggin is a unkept POS... But yea, lets divert our attention to porting to Windows 8 (rolls eyes)
Just don't click on the "native" apps. But I don't see why VLC would want to go that direction.
What about Media Player Classic Home Cinema? I use both. I use MPC-HC more than VLC. Both are great.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
You really think there's ever going to be a Win 9? I think we're witnessing the early signs of MS nerve death. And it can't come soon enough!
New mod option wanted: -1 DrunkenRambling
They haven't got the media library and playlists working at all well in the normal app so its not a good advert for what they might achieve in windows 8...yes sure I could just fix the code instead of moaning...if I ever get any time...
SURELY NOT!!!!!
Apart from the fact that Windows 8 is a crap product to start with that also actively tramples on our privacy and forces unwanted ads on the user
How does Windows 8 trample privacy and force ads on the user? Any features that report data back to Microsoft can be turned off at install time, and all data they send is non identifiable, and not used for advertising purposes, and is clearly spelled out in the privacy policy, which is also available to read offline during install. Further, and ads in the OS are part of free apps that can be installed and are completely nonessential.
You want to talk about ads and privacy, look no further than Ubuntu and Amazon spyware, which integrates both ads and privacy invasion directly into core OS components right on the desktop. Yes, this can also be turned off, but I think that's a little more offensive than ads in nonessential content-driven apps and games, because A) it's not available to disable at install time. At no time does Ubuntu spell out what's it's doing with your data and present a clear concise policy on the data they collect. And B) not only is amazon getting your data, but potentially the other 24 sources listed here. And what's worse, each entity has their own policy on data they collect; Ubuntu sends out your personal search data, and washes their hands of the situation. So if you want to know how these companies are handling you data, be prepared to read upwards of 20 privacy statements.
First fix the privacy mess on your own turf. Then you can come and complain about Microsoft.
So, let me get this straight - the Apple App store for IOS devices, bad, Microsoft App store for Windows 8, good. Got it. The VLC team pulled VLC from the app store over GPL issues. Why won't this effort suffer the same fate?
I would support a kickstarter project to block vlc on w8, w8 users are part of the problem, not the solution...
Only contribution I have made on Kickstarter is for Leisure Suit Larry Cums Again.
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
Why do people actually want things on Metro?
It's like the worst thing ever.
Have MS pay them to do this. As it is, they are paying other app builders to move to Windows. So they can do this as well.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I'm not going to contribute. Not because I don't like VLC, I do. But because I don't support windows 8.
I'm also not going to contribute. Not because I don't like VLC (though, in absence of HTML5 video, I tend to prefer ye olde mplayer). Not because I don't support Windows 8 (haven't tried it yet, but I'm sure some people like it, and for enough money I'd install it with bells on). Not because I'm broke (that's just a cover story for the IRS). But because I don't support GPL!
Now how about a copyfree-licensed platform-independent player (ideally an mplayer clone) that only includes genuinely free codecs like VP8, Theora, Opus, etc... (With features specific to a light-weight player rather than a Web browser, which still don't work very well for full-screen video on FreeBSD.)
The infected gaggle of non-copyfree codecs ought to be taken behind a barn and filleted with a dull axe!
--libman
Actually, it's people like you that are part of the problem -- force others to embrace your own choices at the exclusion of everything else, regardless of the situation.
TL;DR: Fuck you.
- NOT a Win8 user
You have fun with that. In the mean time, I'd like a player that can actually play the videos I have.
Any windows user thats smart enough to run VLC, should be smart enough to use Kubuntu
I guess people who advocate VLC all the time have never used it in production environments. VLC to me is very crashy. Certain things like moving the player window while a HD video is loading up seemed to crash the client.
MPC-HC on the other hand has command line switches, tonnes of built in options, works perfectly with ffdshow and never crashes or fails to render files. You also don't need a book sized manual to understand all the myriad of options when something doesnt work right. With MPC, everything always works right.
I run two automated theatre and countless exhibits on MPC. I did like the "codecless" mode of VLC so i gave it a shot a year or so ago and found it seriously lacking in reliability. ymmv of course, but there are other great free options out there like mpc-hc and the k-lite codec pack.
How about spending the money to make a stable version of 64bit VLC instead of writing an app for a badly planned, poorly executed and underselling operating system?
Why do FOSS developers waste their time porting their hard work to Windows, of all platforms?
Because they want to.
I have a Windows 8 RT Tablet, and it's great. This is one of the only things it's missing. I've been a user of VLC for a long time, it feels good to pay some of that back.
Didn't the iOS version get taken down due to conflicts with the licensing of VLC and the iOS App Store? Wouldn't the exact same thing happen here?
There is still an app on the app store called VLC Streamer, that plays different media types...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Your link is from 2010! There are a ton of GPL based apps in the app store, so it's quite obviously YOU who is wrong.
In reality Apple is not taking down any GPL based apps, it's only when other copyright holders enter the picture complaining there start to be issues and Apple may well just take something down until issues are resolved.
But for most GPLv2 projects there is no issue, because most shared code is built with the idea that other coders can use it for anything.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Thus there was some bad blood there that moved some people away from GPL.. I worry that stunts like this might push people further away, which could potentially diminish the role of OSS in these new environments...
Nah, they just move to BSD style licenses instead which are less restrictive. Most people contribute back code so it works out.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Thus, the GPLs right for everyone to modify becomes the right for a few hobbyists to tinker, i.e. Tivoization.
Any developer could download and tinker for free. XCode is free, the simulator is free.
If they want to run it on a device they have to pay $99 to do so. But that is not restricted, anyone can sign up.
If your complaint made any sense then you'd also have to say ALL GPL code is being "tivolized" because people have to buy computers to compile the code on.
Any rational stance on the true meaning of GPL should staunchly remain about source availability, and that is it. That is the thing the GPL is fighting for, not this grey world of which device you can build it for specifically as is.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Somewhere in the TOS for the Apple Store or the developer program there is (was?) a clause that prohibits you from sharing code, tips, hints, know-how,
That is ONLY true for pre-release software from Apple. That is, if you use a new API in a version of IOS not publicly released you are not supposed to show code or talk about it.
But once the new version of iOS is public, you can share any code you like based on it, and say whatever you like. Since you cannot publicly release a GPL app on anything except a public version of iOS there are no prohibitions on releasing current source.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Windows 8 + Classic Shell + VLC already works (not as good as on Mint 14). I have stripped out all of the Bing "Apps" in favor of "Applications", and the Classic Shell start menu on the desktop replaces the Metro monstrosity.
Why didn't I just choose Windows 7. 8 came free with the PC kit.
The Windows 8 GUI reminds me of Windows 3.1. Sometimes I think it's full-circle, then sometimes I think it's full-circle-jerk...
Unless you have a Universal Program That Does Everything, you'll need to move stuff between windows. I don't see how the native W8 interface facilitates that.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Kickstarter is supposedly only for creative projects not a generic crowdfunding platform. How is this creative?