Your Hands Were Made For Punching According To New Study

They are capable of delicate surgery, creating beautiful works of art, and comforting someone feeling down, but according to a new study your hands evolved to smash someone in the face. From the article: "Human hands evolved so that men could make fists and fight, and not just for manual dexterity, new research finds. The study, published in the Journal of Experimental Biology, adds to a growing body of evidence that humans are among the most aggressive and violent animals on the planet. 'With the notable exception of bonobos, great apes are a relatively aggressive group of mammals,' lead author David Carrier told Discovery News. 'Although some primatologists may argue that chimpanzees are the most aggressive apes, I think the evidence suggests that humans are substantially more violent.''"

Comments

Not for jacking off?

[colinrichardday]

Not for jacking off?

Re:Not for jacking off?

[Anonymous Coward]

If God didn't want us to masturbate, he wouldn't have given us such long arms.

Re:Not for jacking off?

[colinrichardday]

But God was mad at T-Rex?

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1637#comic

Re:Not for jacking off?

[Anonymous Coward]

don't forget the red dot.

Re:Not for jacking off?

[DarwinSurvivor]

The red dot DOES STUFF?!? Guess I need add another whitelist entry to noscript :(

Re:Not for jacking off?

[dintech]

Your Hands Were Made For Punching According To New Study

Fascinating! I did a quick scientific survey of my colleagues and it seems that some peoples faces are evolved for punching too!

Re:Not for jacking off?

[Anonymous Coward]

As a guy that has suffered from various bacterial infections of the prostate and other reproductive parts, masturbation was one of the keys toward clearing out infections.

See, the ejaculate is designed to be a nutrient bath for sperm cells. And it's good at keeping OTHER cells alive too.

But it acts like mucus (snot) to clear things out if you are ready to dump lots of it.

Masturbation (twice a day if possible) is one of the key things to do if you've got prostatitis. So yeah, it's not good to hold your load too long. Why do you think wet dreams occur? Why bother doing that while asleep, couldn't it be completely confined to dreaming?

If you want to successfully reproduce, you need to be wanking it often, especially if there isn't modern medical care available.

Ps, I am better now.

Re:Not for jacking off?

[CanadianRealist]

I think a T-Rex could pretty much screw anything it wanted, whenever it wanted. Ergo no need to evolve long arms.

Explains a lot

[Jetra]

Now I know why I have the urge to punch stupid people in the face.

Fist walking

[tepples]

Was it for punching foes, or was it for punching the ground before bipedalism became the norm? Orangutans, for example, walk on their fists.

Re:Fist walking

[Anonymous Coward]

The point of walking was to free up the hands to punch more people. Just like the point of jumping was to do scissors kicks to the neck. Cause that's just awesome.

Re:Fist walking

[ColdWetDog]

It wasn't "for" anything.

In terms of the size and shape of hand anatomy, the scientists point out that humans could have evolved manual dexterity with longer thumbs, but without the fingers and palms getting shorter.

What a bunch of nonsense. You postulate something on the basis of a weak anatomical correlate study and then you open it up to an evolutionary mechanism. There isn't anything to suggest that reproductive fitness (the thing that drives evolution) has anything to do with punching out competitors.

I see your fist and raise the ante with a club.

Re:Fist walking

[Fned]

Orangutans are the only great ape that walks like that, though, and they're primarily brachiators. Chimps and gorillas walk on the second knuckle rather than the first.

Re:Fist walking

[Half-pint HAL]

There isn't anything to suggest that reproductive fitness (the thing that drives evolution) has anything to do with punching out competitors.

You've never watched stags or bulls in mating season then....

Re:Fist walking

[Knuckles]

Absolutely. Also, study author should watch less movies and punch someone for real. He will realize that human hands are really bad for punching, you get open bleeding knuckles in no time, and injuries if your fists and arms are misaligned. It's not an accident that martial arts that use punches spend a lot of practice to getting it right, and many don't use closed-fist punches with exposed first phalanges at all.

Re:Fist walking

[aurispector]

Agreed. The conclusions are idiotic. Punching something isn't nearly as effective as bashing something over the head with a rock.

Look at all the things for which modern humans use their thumbs. It's a multifunction device and whether your talking tool use or weapon use, thumbs made our species much more likely to survive.

Re:Fist walking

[dywolf]

40 ton humpback whales leap out of the water and body slam each either in competition over females, sometimes causing fatal internal injuries.
Hippos fight each other mating rights, sometimes fatally slicing each others necks open with their tusks.

So yeah. There is nothing to suggest that reproductive fitness has anything to do with punching out competitors. Not a thing. Nope. Females never select only the agressive winner to breed with.

Re:Fist walking

[dywolf]

If you get open bleeding knuckles you're doing it wrong. Doesnt take long to develop the calluses and shrunken knuckles that deliver a more powerful impact. And if predecessors did knuckle walk, they would have naturally developed both features. And something tells me, if your mating rights a million ago depended on being able to hit, you would probably spend more time "learning" than martial artists today do, and learn it quicker.

Re:Fist walking

[Knuckles]

Yeah, "doing it wrong" in the sense of doing it at all. Sure, calluses and all, not stretching the skin over the knuckles, etc., I know. But fists still are so not good for punching that, as I said, many martial arts don't use it at all (e.g., in Tai Chi Chuan punches are performed only with the back of the (fisted) hand). One would think that if the fists evolved for punching, as the study seems to claim, they would be built for punching, which they aren't really - notwithstanding the fact that with lots of conditioning, practice, and thinking about it you can kind of use them for punching

Re:Fist walking

[Anonymous Coward]

Fifty years of martial arts experience here - the human body has a lot of armor and can take more punishment than the occasional KTFO video might indicate. Against armored targets, a punch can be as ruinous to the puncher as to the one being punched. In a fluid situation, it can be difficult to deliver an accurate, solid punch without injury to yourself. (This is why, although I teach beginners to punch to give themselves a sense of "power", for actual fighting, I don't use punching.)

The study showing peak stress to a punching bag misses the point of the many different reasons that any hitting occurs (from playful affection to simple relatively benign dominance behavior to kill-him-before-he-kills-you behavior). It also seems to me also to miss the point of fluidity in a situation. Against a resisting enemy, you can do more damage going for "acreage" and be more likely to take someone down. (Think "shock and awe".) I'd like them to measure me against fluid targets and measure untrained people against fluid targets. I'm going to bet that their numbers would - amazingly - be reversed.

I think that humans are violent for other reasons than that they were somehow "designed" for it by evolution. It seems to me that there's a bit of post hoc ergo propter hoc in saying that, just because we can punch, we are made for punching. I can write my name in the snow with urine, ergo urine should be used as ink.

Re:Fist walking

[flayzernax]

Agreed expert fighters (read killers not showmen or sportsmen) don't resort to punching as their first means of downing their oponents. Your elbow is far superior to your fist. Though the fist and knuckles have some specific opportunistic uses.

Just because its better to punch with a human fist then a monkey fist, does not mean it was adapted for fighting, just that it got granfathered in as a 2cndary trait or use.

I believe the actual cause for adaptation has more to do with the manipulation or gripping of tools, in that case its designed very well for smashing your oponents over the head with a heavy peice of femur. (see 2001 a space oddesy)

It's all about masturbation, Mr. Carrier

[hduff]

Then arms were made for masturbation. Otherwise why would they not be that length? If they were made for punching, they would be very much longer to minimize the risk to oneself from an attacker. Hands were then made for masturbation as well, otherwise why put them at the end of the perfect length of arm?

Re:It's all about masturbation, Mr. Carrier

[Johann Lau]

Not having to impregnate women you don't even like just because you feel horny, for one.

Re:It's all about masturbation, Mr. Carrier

[Johann Lau]

And the "purpose" of not having blue balls, or kids with the first woman you saw the day you reached puberty, is to increase our fitness *vastly* beyond what humping everything would... at least I assume that's the reason we came up with it. We as a species invest a lot in our kids, we don't just lay 20 eggs and let them fight amongst themselves. I mean, our kids are extremely helpless for a very long time, compared to most animals we're hilarious in that sense. This implies the need for society and a bond between the parents that goes beyond mere hornyness. After all, the same person will never make you repeatedly as horny as a person of equal hotness you haven't slept with, if there is nothing else.

Also, these days we mostly procreate by information and power. When you think you're procreating you're really mostly just making vessels filled by others, how's that for a cheerful thought? Sure, your kids might have your genes, but they mostly do what a handful (in comparison to all the people who are "just parents") of inventors and leaders/owners came up with. They don't run around with cell phones because it was your idea, do they, or fight random shitty wars for with random shitty justifications because you recommended it. The concepts they use to interact with the world they won't get from you for the most part either, nor the movies or the songs or the hygiene products they will associate with their childhood just as much as they will associate it with you. I don't say this to be mean, at least not only; I really have to say "PFFFFFF!!" to the whole gene thing, that's like 10000 years past - a number I completely pulled out of my ass.

I say we humans don't live in our genes, we live in that tiny percentage of them that makes us have these brains, in which we have ideas, knowledge, language, personality and ownership constructs. The hardware is really not the point of us. Sure, our genes may be selfish and our higher level things just a result of that blind selfishness ultimately, but now that these higher level things have arisen, they do influence and select genes as well, not just the other way around. And I'd say what is going on in our wetware, the current state, is way more important than our genes. There even was a slashdot story about this a while ago I think, about how we haven't really changed a lot biology wise. Our progress is mostly in culture "lately". Not that I'd need a scientist to know that, I looked it up in my gut; but it's always neat to have that gut feeling confirmed.

Re:It's all about masturbation, Mr. Carrier

[FatLittleMonkey]

But convincing women to have sex with you requires not being a pathetic drooling moron, which means having a way of bleeding off the excess horniness during sexless courtship. Low horniness means you don't try and drop out of the gene pool, high unrelieved horniness means you don't succeed and drop out of the gene pool. Horniness + ability to masturbate means you can select your level of horniness to fit the situation. Win.

But there was a side effect: When women breast-feed, it lowers their sex drive on average. A normal horny animal would just go off and find another mate. This limits the resources available for the child, so the species evolves young that are independent early, which limits intelligence. However, because masturbating human males could relieve their horniness, it reduced their need to constantly find other mates. This increased the resources for children, allowing the minor evolutionary pressure for greater intelligence to finally overcome the greater evolutionary pressure to reduce resource use. Thus modern humans evolved.

Re:It's all about masturbation, Mr. Carrier

[WGFCrafty]

Also, these days we mostly procreate by information and power. When you think you're procreating you're really mostly just making vessels filled by others, how's that for a cheerful thought? Sure, your kids might have your genes, but they mostly do what a handful (in comparison to all the people who are "just parents") of inventors and leaders/owners came up with. They don't run around with cell phones because it was your idea, do they, or fight random shitty wars for with random shitty justifications because you recommended it. The concepts they use to interact with the world they won't get from you for the most part either, nor the movies or the songs or the hygiene products they will associate with their childhood just as much as they will associate it with you. I don't say this to be mean, at least not only; I really have to say "PFFFFFF!!" to the whole gene thing, that's like 10000 years past - a number I completely pulled out of my ass.

I think you are profoundly underestimating the influence a parent who is nurturing and has a positive relationship with their kid, has on that child's personality. That child may be influenced greatly through non-parental channels, but they will most likely hold similair beliefs and values, which may match societal norms as well, but be closer to their family.

My point is that, their parents values may overlap with societal values but their parent's influence is greater. I'm specifically talking about people who would rate their relationship as very close.

If what you say is true I would think everyone would be grey and generic.

Re:It's all about masturbation, Mr. Carrier

[Johann Lau]

Values, yes. For example, there surely were many of loving parents in Nazi Germany, and the sense of duty and honor they instilled in their kids -- with the best and most loving of intentions --made those perfect fodder for the Nazis. Of course, there was also the resistance. You know, the ones who died a lot, too. While Nazi scientists kind of went on to continue their career in the US. Gotta lurv me some values!

Values can be routed around and used for whatever if you couple it with deception, and even then there is the whole external forces stuff... You can instill values that would make your kid rather starve than become a murderer, but wether they will have to make such a choice is not up to you or them, ultimately. You can keep your kid from participating in war or slavery, but not from catching a bullet or being enslaved.

It's kind of ironic: unless we care for all people, our own children (and their children, and theirs..) don't really stand much of a chance, and will not have much of a say. They will pick from choices others engineered and think they are their own. That's even worse than being in prison, where you even know you are.

We are embedded in society, we breathe it, and the question is, who drives it. Special interest groups, or all? Whom does it serve for the most part? We are being driven, probed, manipulated, divided and conquered, and you tell me your parenting is going to win out? I mean, I get your point, and I agree with it in the scope it applies, but do you hear me, too?

Even when you say "your beliefs" I have to ask, how many of those are yours, how many have you adopted without looking too closely? And never mind you, how about most people?

If what you say is true I would think everyone would be grey and generic.

Likewise, if what you said was true, that either means a lot of parents raise their kids to be tools for robbery, murder, and being experimented on.

And yes, I am exaggerrating. To make a point, because this cute little "my family tree" stuff is boring me to death. I appreciate the love, but I hate the naivity. Put bluntly, even the most successful kid is still just a slave and cannonfodder with mostly lies, toys and non-sequiturs in the brain, with so few exceptions they're not worth mentioning. It's not worth mentioning until it's at least two thirds, if you ask me :P I know we can't all be super duper grownups all the time, but this is abysmal bullshit. The whole last 100 years have been, at least.

And yes, once you see through a bunch of patterns you'll find the world, in some ways, IS very grey and generic. Well, the human world, anyway. It's like the emperor has ten thousand outfits, and they all consist of his wrinkly dick swinging in the wind. And pretending otherwise doesn't make it actually colorful, it kinda dooms us... so let's kick the emperor in the nuts. He'll thank us when he snapped out of it, I bet you.

Re:It's all about masturbation, Mr. Carrier

[daem0n1x]

We as a species invest a lot in our kids, we don't just lay 20 eggs and let them fight amongst themselves.

That's how Libertarians breed, you insensitive clod!

Context is important!

[Anonymous Coward]

Context is important. Violence is not ubiquitous. See this:7 Things Bonobos Can Teach Us About Love and Sex
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sex-dawn/201202/7-things-bonobos-can-teach-us-about-love-and-sex

As a boxer...

[ihatewinXP]

From years of boxing this couldnt be more obvious.

Your hands will fracture, break, bend, and sometimes emulsify... Especially the forefinger middle knuckle and the top pinky knuckle = 'the boxer break.' Over and over.

But each time calcifying over and becoming stronger. After a while you literally have 'hands of stone.'

Now of course my dexterity isnt what it used to be. Typing and fumbling for computer screws reminds me of my favorite pastime often.

Re:As a boxer...

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit, your fists are not properly adapted to bare knuckle boxing, which is what TFS implies. The human face has tons of small muscles, each muscle is anchored by tiny bone ridges. The skull itself is adapted to handle whatever knocks it takes.

So, what you end up with is breaking your fingers and similar damage. If you really must hit somebody in the face, you do that with the heal of your hand which is much sturdier than your knuckles anyways. It's braced for times when you fall forward and need to use it to keep from smacking your head into the ground.

IIRC, the term heal claw strike or similar is used in Ninjitsu to refer to that type of hit.

Re:As a boxer...

[jbov]

After a while you figuratively have 'hands of stone.'

FTFY

Re:As a boxer...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cut him some slack, he's been hit in the head few times.

Re:As a boxer...

[The Moof]

I disagree. It's way too easy for me to injure or break my hand by simply throwing a punch. Not to mention injuring my wrist. And afterward, the full use of my hand might not be the same (you even mentioned the loss of dexterity as a result of your boxing).

These lead me to believe that hands weren't intended for punching stuff. There's way too much technique required so I don't hurt myself (and even technique isn't enough, which is where the taping comes in).

Re:As a boxer...

[phantomfive]

Your hands will fracture, break, bend, and sometimes emulsify... Especially the forefinger middle knuckle and the top pinky knuckle = 'the boxer break.' Over and over.

Strange, I would take this as evidence that our hands are NOT evolved for punching, but rather that our bodies are amazingly adaptable to what we put them through.

It's hard to see the thumb as an adaptation used for fighting, as the article suggests.

Re:As a boxer...

[azalin]

It's hard to see the thumb as an adaptation used for fighting, as the article suggests.

Though it works marvels once a sturdy stick comes involved

Re:As a boxer...

[Nyder]

Your hands will fracture, break, bend, and sometimes emulsify... Especially the forefinger middle knuckle and the top pinky knuckle = 'the boxer break.' Over and over.

Strange, I would take this as evidence that our hands are NOT evolved for punching, but rather that our bodies are amazingly adaptable to what we put them through.

It's hard to see the thumb as an adaptation used for fighting, as the article suggests.

Really? I find the thumbs can press down into the eyes very well in a fight, and it's hard to get them out when rest of the hand is gripped about the skull.

Re:As a boxer...

[wierd_w]

Bone is a calcium phosphate complex bound with protein molecules, which form an extracellular matrix. Calcium is an alkaline earth metal. Phosphorus is a nonmetal, and oxygen is a gas. Calcium phosphate, all by itself, is a mineral which usualy only forms under unusual and arrid conditions.

The calcium phosphate complex that comprises bone cannot be classified as a mineral, because it is formed via a biological process. (Similar caveat for coal. Not a mineral.) /pedant

According to my vegan, feminist ex...

[Anonymous Coward]

We were living in a peaceful vegetarian world, munching on salad until the bronze age. Of course, all evidence for this was wiped out by the evil patriarchy.

I call BS

[Kargan]

Your hands are full of very small bones. It's very easy to break your hand by punching something hard and dense (such as a skull or face for instance).

If you want to strike someone in the face, it's smarter to use other parts of the body such as your knee, elbow or to use an open hand strike (such as a palm strike). That way you have the edge of a very long bone delivering the blow.

Re:I call BS

[bakes]

Some martial arts teach striking with the heel of the palm, gaining the 'end-of-long-bone advantage and protecting the fingers.

Re:I call BS

[FatLittleMonkey]

But then he'll get a bigger stronger branch. And you'll respond by attaching sharpened flint to your branch. Then he invents a system where he can make others fight you while he is protected. So you invent a system where you personify the sun or a volcano and convince others that it's the personification that wants them to fight his defenders...

Where does it all end?

Re:I call BS

[Hillgiant]

Where does it all end?

1. CHESS
2. POKER
3. FIGHTER COMBAT
4. GUERRILLA ENGAGEMENT
5. DESERT WARFARE
6. AIR-TO-GROUND ACTIONS
7. THEATERWIDE TACTICAL WARFARE
8. THEATERWIDE BIOTOXIC AND CHEMICAL WARFARE

9. GLOBAL THERMONUCLEAR WAR

Level the playing field.

[fahrbot-bot]

Although some primatologists may argue that chimpanzees are the most aggressive apes, I think the evidence suggests that humans are substantially more violent.

Set the chimps down in front of a few Windows systems and we'll see...

[ Sorry, just finished working on my Windows 7 system and reading the recent Windows 8 thread and am feeling a little violent. ]

Re:Level the playing field.

[UltraZelda64]

I predict that they will start throwing chairs.

These hands were made for punching

[kervin]

And that's just what they'll do

Re:These hands were made for punching

[R3d M3rcury]

One of these days these hands are gonna punch all over you.

Oh yeah?

[TWX]

David Carrier said, "...I think the evidence suggests that humans are substantially more violent."

Oh yeah? I bet he wouldn't say that to my face!

Re:Oh yeah?

[Inda]

Humans are not substantially more violent.

And if any one disagrees with me, I'll punch their face in.

Re:As a boxer... Ewwwwww

[Anonymous Coward]

mishandling relatively short, small diameter, objects reminds you of your favourite pastime ............ just ewwww

Civilization is a Non-Zero-Sum Game

[bill_mcgonigle]

Well, I guess somebody has to go against the flood of neurological research showing that humans tend greatly towards the altruistic. "Fists, yeah, that's the ticket. People are inherently violent, and so we're justified being bad to them, because they need to be controlled." Augustine of Hippo called - he wants his Original Sin back.

Troll "research" is troll.

I wouldn't say humans are more violent

[Riceballsan]

Humans are gradually getting less violent. Chimps and other relatives of ours are still more violent. You don't measure violence in how many kills one person had the potential and means to create, that is partly based on intelligence, and it also goes into proportions. Second is coverage, sure we see dozens of racial hate crimes in humans for every Chimpanzee lynching, but the odds of an individual chimpanzee taken at random being killed by his own race, is significantly higher than the odds of any one human being murdered. Statistically humans are dwindling down in violence per capita, we just are more aware of every instance, and individual instances are much larger.

Re:I wouldn't say humans are more violent

[Half-pint HAL]

But is a nuclear bomb truly "violence"? Personally I think it's something a little more chilling -- it's cold and calculated with little of the emotional content of headbutting someone for grabbing your girlfriend's arse....

who funded this?

[blind monkey 3]

After reading the article I believe the authors of the study have graphically demonstrated that their hands are best suited for masturbating.

Glad to see it.

[ddd0004]

More quality research from the Chuck Norris Institute of Bodily Harm. I predict the findings of their next study will either focus on the advantages of delivering a roundhouse kick while wearing jeans.

The actual article is free to read

[Anonymous Coward]

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/216/2/236.full

this is a joke

[RedHackTea]

I feel like this whole site is made for trolling. Read any of the suggested articles or the other articles that she wrote. And when you say "hands were made for punching" instead of "scientists suggest that hands may have evolved in part due to its fighting capabilities," it's hard to really consider this "scientific" but instead more to just increase read count (++readCount).

Other articles she wrote:

1. New Dinosaur Had Unforgettable Smile
2. Sabertooth Cat Lived in Vegas
3. Iron Age Feast Found in England

Suggested related articles:

1. First Human Ancestor Looked Like a Squirrel
2. Early Human Ancestors Ate Grass

Re:As a boxer... Ewwwwww

[yndrd1984]

mishandling relatively short, small diameter, objects reminds you of your favourite pastime ............ just ewwww

If you haven't played with a clit, you're missing out.

Re:You, sir.

[Weaselmancer]

Just don't shake his hand.

Re:As a boxer... Ewwwwww

[Anonymous Coward]

It's above the b and below the g and h.

Re:As a boxer... Ewwwwww

[Anonymous Coward]

touch: cannot touch ‘/dev/clit’: Permission denied

:(

Re:As a boxer... Ewwwwww

[someone1234]

sudo!

Re:As a boxer... Ewwwwww

[wierd_w]

It says:

"User Horndog is not a member of the super users group", and that "my access violation will be reported"!

I think I hear sirens....