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After 12 years of Development, E17 Is Out
The Enlightenment front page bears this small announcement: "E17 release HAS HAPPENED!" The release announcement is remarkably spartan — it's mostly a tribute to the dozens of contributors who have worked on the software itself and on translating it into many languages besides system-default English. On the other hand, if you've been waiting since December 2000 for E17 (also known as Enlightenment 0.17), you probably have some idea that Enlightenment is a window manager (or possibly a desktop environment: the developers try to defuse any dispute on that front, but suffice it to say that you can think of it either way), and that the coders are more interested in putting out the software that they consider sufficiently done than in incrementing release numbers. That means they've made some side trips along the way, Knuth-like, to do things like create an entire set of underlying portable libraries. The release candidate changelog of a few days ago gives an idea of the very latest changes, but this overview shows and tells what to expect in E17. If you're among those disappointed in the way some desktop environments have tended toward simplicity at the expense of flexibility, you can be sure that Enlightenment runs the other way: "We don't go quietly into the night and remove options when no one is looking. None of those new big version releases with fanfare and "Hey look! Now with half the options you used to have!". We sneak in when you least expect it and plant a whole forest of new option seeds, watching them spring to life. We nail new options to walls on a regular basis. We bake options-cakes and hand them out at parties. Options are good. Options are awesome. We have lots of them. Spend some quality time getting to know your new garden of options in E17. It may just finally give you the control you have been pining for."
Congrats, rasterman. (sorry, wmaker user)
Is this a Ted Nelson gig, per chance?
E was left behind in the window manager wars but it was probably the one that first featured alot of the UI changes that sparked the UI revolution that was the last 12 years. Its good to see they are finally out with a new version and I hope it gains some ground but it would be hard at this point to become the #1 WM. Im sure many of the people who used E in the past will want to try it again but beyond that I dont see it being adopted much. I would probably rather E over Ubuntu's Unity any day (Although i'd take just about any WM over Unity)
http://interserver.net/
Can I turn off the antialiasing feature? Last time I looked into this, Mr Rasterman basically said "it looks perfect the way we do because we do it right". Yeah, until I can turn it off I'm not touching it with a 10 foot barge pole...
More bloated eye candy that confuses everyone, violates the previous standards of layout, doesn't actually do the jobs you need to do most often, destabilizes your working environment, and is entirely incompatible with any working Linux games.
Congratulations, developers. You've clearly reached a new Vista of software quality. (And justified why I still recompile and use vtwm by default on every Linux system i touch.)
Am I the only one who interpreted "out" as meaning "abandoned" or "given up on?"
What's the difference between a window manager and a desktop environment?
Or was it "desktop manager" and "window environment"?
No, seriously, I don't know the difference.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Perfect match to run Duke Nukem forever!
Meh, it's a nicely performant well developed system but the interface is funky as shit and not really that nice to use. After the newness wears off you'll see what I mean.
10 years too late, I reckon. We've all moved on from this kind of "gratuitous eye candy above all else philosophy" and it's all about consistency, usability, integration, and last but not least, features now.
Oh well, I still have three hours.
I'll stick with e16 - it does all that I need. Basically, I only use the e16 window manager, along with a GNOME desktop - kind of odd but it works. Even at that, the only features I rely on from e16 are edge-flip and "annihilate" - features that used to exist in Red Hat but were dumped long ago.
Obviously just waiting to see if December 21, 2012 was really the end of the world.
This ranks among many software-things that I never expected to see happen. (up there with a "new" BeOS (never happened *for real reals*))
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
i dunno.... version 1.0 ??
Does it still require the Enlightenment Sound Daemon?
Users don't want options, don't these guys get it?
Yours Truly,
GNOME Development team
So the product they just released is already 12 years behind? This is good, how?
E17 does not compete with KDE, GNOME, Xfce, LXDE, ROX, Razor-Qt, EDE, MATE, Cinnamon, etc. For people who care about software freedom, it leapfrogs them entirely, by the virtue of being the only copyfree alternative. All other full-scale desktop environments (DE's) are marred by GPL!
I for one was OK without a DE / widgets, using a light copyfree WM (ex wmii) + xterm + HTML5 (Opera, until the last remnants of gnushit are scraped off of WebKit). But for people who want both freedom and DE / widgets, E17 is now an option.
--libman
Can anyone explain why some open source* people have a fetish for tiny version numbers? If you are going to spend ten years developing a new version, is that REALLY not worth a primary version number? What is the attraction to having versions as near to zero as possible? In a dotted-decimal notation, why do some people think only the second decimal should be incremented, and at that only once per decade, and the first decimal should remain zero forever?
The primary decimal should be zero when the project is started and should be 1 when it reaches initial functional maturity. Major versions with substantial new features warrant primary-decimal increments. Minor features warrant secondary-decimal increments. Bug fixes warrant tertiary-decimal increments. Otherwise one of the main benefits of the dotted-decimal notation is lost.
* and not other open source cf. emacs
I've been using E17 for many years, and every time I try other WM/DE's I keep going back to E17 for one simple reason. The way E17 handles multi-monitors is such a vast improvement over others I don't know why everyone doesn't do it this way. Desktops on each monitor can be independantly switched!
Seriously, I don't know how anyone gets work done with multi-monitor any other way. Being able to switch the contents of a single monitor without switching everything on the other one is just what I always expected for desktop management, and can't understand a situation where I would want to switch both monitor virtual desktops simulaneously ALL the freaking time! This is very similar to getting use to virtual desktops on linux then trying to switch back to the single-desktop of ms windows systems.
Guess that point is not as imporant to most as to me, but I can't imagine doing it any other way without a feeling of something being wrong.
Congrats E17!!
More like squat in an abandoned house for 12 years.
Just in case anyone else is just about to give up. I tried to do the right thing and clean install the files but had broken dependencies. :)
Eventually, I decided to revert to my tried and true SVN clone and just update that. It worked fine
This is what the Mayans had in mind all this time.
I can't wait to install it on Hurd and see how it looks running Duke Nukem Forever.
We're not impressed by people who don't know what a fucking package manager is, right.
And 15 Years Behind !
Oh Dear.
I have a 4.2Ghz quad core AMD cpu, 16 gigs of 2ghz ram and a pair of SSD's in raid
so do I really give a shit about a graphic tachometer telling me that a text editor will bump that needle up by a fraction of a pixel?
yea I know its just a thing, and it can be removed, but from the first screen shot, I get the impression that this software is STILL stuck in 1996, and I am 16 years old
Its time like these, that hopefully will change in 2020.
These stupid ass distros who are so hard up and anal, they should be the ones who find all these cool apps and programs, and re-package it up into their REPO servers ASAP, or on the day of the release.
If conical wants an app store, PUT all the damn cool shit on it. Not old shit, new shit.
Linux needs a none-distro specific Super Store.
Click download app - dont ask for what distro I am using, figure it out lame asses. Use a app store client that runs on 5 major distros. And can install app XYZ easily, that doesnt break other apps, and that wont stop and get stupid python errors, coz again some lame ass coded his scripts with 2.6, but fails in 2.7. Fix your shit, stop breaking old shit, stop removing old apis, you want to reduce bloat? then dont package up 167 languages that take 89 megs.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
There are numerous free and opensourced replacement desktop shells for windows. Some are old linux ports.
They are good, because they work and run inside the free MS HyperVisor VM. Which boots into a cmd line plain gui, but no shell. Its easy to install these new shells, to create a working desktop thats linux like, but in windows.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-replacements-for-the-windows-7-desktop/1327
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I thought Bodhi Linux was already using E17? Was that a pre-release? Does anyone know when Bodhi Linux will get this new release? I'm curious because I'm about to install the new version of Bodhi, and I don't want to install it and then have to re-install it with the newest version in just a couple of weeks.
The G
Then destroying the earth will take a lot longer than that.
Just sayin... destruction could be a slow long process taking decades...
On a side note, we could never predict an incoming super nova gamma ray burst, or have very little warning if someones watching Betelgeuse or something hourly!!!
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Unless your an attention seeker and its pure marketing.... then
Then the only time to move the primary number up, is if you have intruduced enough incompatibility or broken lagacy functions, that it warrants an indicator number, to show, what works with what.
Keep calling it 1.758 (Release 2012)
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
All this effort could've gone towards something we actually needed.
TEMPEST Attacks! LCD Monitor leaks system noise to FRS
===
I don't operate any wireless equipment at my living location. This includes computers, computer equipment, routers, non-computer equipment, etc.
I'm having a problem with one of my LCD monitors.
It works without problems. That was until I picked up some heavy static noises from a hand held radio. I eliminated all sources of generating this type of noise until I came towards an LCD monitor. When the monitor is on and there is content on the screen the radio makes several types of garbage(static) sounds. As I manipulate contents on the screen, maximize and minimize windows, open different applications, the radio responds with scratchy(static) noises to match the activity on the screen. This includes typing and mouse movement.
When I switched the desktop background to a solid black color without wallpaper, the radio noise went down to almost nothing. But when I loaded any program with a white background, the noise from the radio exploded in volume.
When I passed the radio across different computer and non-computer electronic devices other than the LCD monitor, the wired mouse made a high pitched squeal sound within the static. None of the other computing devices such as the tower generated any noise.
I tried CRT monitors and separate computers attached to the CRT monitors but they did not generate any noise in the radio. On the computer connected to the net, I unplugged the cable leading to the router to rule this out but it made no difference, the LCD monitor is at fault.
While monitoring the radio noise, there were several instances where the noise on the channel being monitored stopped, and I switched to another channel and the same noise appeared. Why would the noise from the LCD switch channels during normal use of the LCD? Back and forth throughout the day the noise generated by the LCD would switch from one channel to the next and back to the first channel again.
The noise extends several steps within my living location. I'll test this another day to determine if it extends outside my living location and if so by how many feet.
The computer/monitor are grounded and attached to a surge protector. I'm not sure what I need to do to stop this, or if I should ignore it.
I assumed LCDs would be quieter than CRTs when it came to noise.
Unless I have a radio tuned to a specific channel, the LCD does not generate any noise which I can detect, unless it's above my hearing capacity.
The LCD monitor also functions as speakers, and while the sound cable is connected to the tower, I have disabled the onboard sound in my BIOS. The only other connection is the DVI cable to the tower.
How may I decrease this noise or eliminate it? It seems like the LCD is a mini radio station. When I turn it off the noise in the radio stops, if I blacken the screen the noise lessens. When I switch to a colorful background or load white screened applications like a web browser the noise jumps up loudly. I've tried grabbing and moving a browser window around the screen and the movement matches the noises in the radio.
Would any of this be considered normal?
==-
This certainly isn't unheard of, it's because some part of the monitor is unshielded. The more fix-it stuff is at the top of the following, with the technical backdrop that just might be good to know is at the bottom.
Unfortunately, the issue is most likely the panel charging the LCs. The only thing you can do is see if the manufacturer will replace it or upgrade you. Complain to the manufacturer, be sure to come up with some important thing it's interfering with(if I recall some medical devices use some sort of radio).
If the issue is actually internal wiring which is highly unlikely as detailed below, and it isn't in warranty, attempt to shield it yourself. To shield it yourself, you'll need thin foil(not kitchen foil) and electrical tape.
So, in any given monitor, there's 3 main parts. Input, logic, and output. Output, as pre
Now port it to windows so we can replace metro!
Can I drag a file from a lower, unfocused folder to anywhere without either raising or focusing that folder? You know, like Windows and Mac users have been able to do almost as long as those have existed?
Yo dawg, I hear you like settings, so I put some settings in your settings, so you can set your settings while you set your settings.
This is a highly confusing, very inconsistent desktop environment like program. Items that deal with setting the user interface are all over the place, items that deal with power settings are all over the place, and so on. There are desk top icons/indicators for apparently random things, but for others there isn't one. I'm not comparing E17 to other Unix/Linux/Xwindows alternatives, but looking at this as it's own entity. It will take a ton of tweaking and rearranging menus to get an average user comfortable with it, if at all.
Making things configurable is great, but please make it consistent, because people are going to be looking all over to find things. I'm not an apple fan boy, but one of the things they sort of did right, is consistency, grouping and logical placement in the user interface. For E18, please focus on consistency and usability in the user interface and not new features, it has plenty.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
I've been using linux from 1998 to 2005, with various windowmanager (wmaker, enlightenment etc.), but sorry, I really cannot see much progress here. There is still to much to configure (hey, I want to work with my system, not spend too much time on configurating), the windows don't look very nice and the handling still seems to be somehow circuitous (eg. moving stuff in the taskbar). Sorry, but in my view not a step forward to Linux on the Desktop.
Having used decimal version numbers myself on some project, version 1.0 to me meant "complete" and having all features I initially envisioned for it. That's was my reason anyway.
You should have posted this comment in response to the fellow who professes not to be an Apple fanboy, but who does like the way they have managed to make things consistent. Consistency is a gridlock virtue. Some large gorilla at the top of the food chain guesses right often enough to successfully don the "father knows best hat" while receiving adulation rather than contempt from the sharp-thinking in-crowd.
Consistency is good for users who find themselves at the sweet spot of the golden profile, not so good for ecosystems or freedom.
I've been reading Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue by John McWhorter. He argues that there's never been a natural language in history anywhere close to as internally consistent as grammar nazis would have us believe. Why shouldn't we split an infinitive in English? Because in Latin, the infinitive is a single word.
Here's what I would accept as a certification credential for father consistency, before allowing him to try his hand at desktop Unity: reform the French language so that all feminine things are feminine and all masculine things are masculine, so that no student of the French language ever again needs consult a dictionary to determine which gender applies.
I won't settle for mere consistency, I demand universal consistency. If not that, giving me the effing options to tweak myself, consistent or not. It would be nice if the default settings are minimally self-consistent as viewed by the elected torch-bearer of groupthink. It won't be my consistency, but any consistency is better than no consistency ... as a starting point.
Please explain one feature that E17 offers that other operating environments don't?
I forgot my login to slashdot, they never gave it to me when I asked, it was around 1996 or so, so I am anonymous
e was great, e17 is impressive too I just checked it out, I've moved onto gnome 3 however
From the project FAQ:
"If you want a minimal interface, you can configure Enlightenment to be quite minimal, but it takes effort. Enlightenment leans towards providing eye candy where it can, and often comes by default that way. This is how we roll. We always have. Haters gonna hate. That's how we roll. Bring on the lollipops!"
I'm sorry, all the bling is a turnoff. Like this. Sometimes less is more. Shadow, glow, glass rendering, sparkles and pixie dust is a bit much for the mouse cursor.
If that what was meant it looks like the GP poster is using a different interpretation of the term "focus" to the rest of us in describing window management and has never heard of the term "sloppy focus".
Thank God at least some desktop developers and interaction designers are against the crippling, dumbing down, sluggishness and configuration-hiding of the unfortunately moronic Gnome3. I tried E17 years ago and was extremely impressed with its lightness and speed, even going so far as to recommend its use in the core of a commercial project in which I was involved. (I don't know what E17 is like now). Unfortunately, a senior person with deep connections in the Gnome world poured shit all over it and Rasterman (" ... that's just gtk anyway, isn't it? ...") and convinced the CEO otherwise. I know I was right; they all were wrong. Small satisfaction.
The E17 people can only blame themselves if it has no profile and no-one knows what it is. Twelve years in getting a stable release? Give me a break. OTOH the timing might be right in that Gnome3 has alienated much of the Gnome user base and many are ready to give it the flick forever.
The solution is to get e17 into one or two major distributions as the default UI environment. One would be enough if that distro is Ubuntu or Mint.
Look, if you really want to see it, just put e16 (which I'm using now) or e17 (which I have at home) on a machine and give it a go - I think you'll find that behaviour that you are trying to describe there. Whether it was done with "baroque schemes" or not (a lot of work went into e initially so maybe it was complex) it still ended up being done.
When I called "bullshit" it wasn't on the behaviour, but instead your incomplete description of it, which as it stood appeared to make no sense. From your revised description the sloppy focus in e16 and e17 (and maybe even kwin) appears to match it