VLC For Windows 8 Reaches $65,000 Funding Goal On Kickstarter

An anonymous reader writes "A Metro version of VLC, the popular free and open-source media player, is coming to Windows 8. On Sunday, the VideoLAN organization reached its funding goal on Kickstarter for its Windows 8-specific app. There are also plans to port it afterwards to Windows Phone 8. The project has now been funded by over 2,500 backers, who have pledged more than the £40,000 ($65,000) goal."

Comments

VLC

[webmistressrachel]

Why wouldn't the usual version work on Win8? I was under the impression that there is a Classic-like interface, sans Start Menu?

Re:VLC

[ClaraBow]

This is for the Metro version which will work on RT, Windows phone and Windows x86

Re:VLC

[Threni]

Presumably it's quicker and easier to fund a complete new version of VLC that it is to work out how the fuck you're supposed to launch and run a program under Windows 8?

Re:VLC

[Nerdfest]

... assuming Microsoft 'approves' it. Buying into a locked ecosystem is a mistake. It's rewarding a company for taking the ownership of your hardware away.

Re:VLC

[ClaraBow]

True. There is a good chance that it might not be approved if MS wants to push it's media player to drive music and movie sales. We shall see!

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

VLC has said that because of how the system is setup, Windows phone 8 is simpler to program for then Normal OS's (ex. windows/linux). Also the RT is not x86, so it HAS to be a big rewrite.

Re:VLC

[Joe_Dragon]

then you can just side load it.

Re:VLC

[JWW]

Just wondering if that one asshole developer who blocked the client on iOS will block it for windows phone as well.

Re:VLC

[Nerdfest]

I was under the impression that it wasn't allowed under the metro interface. Is that something easy for the average user?

Re:VLC

[lister king of smeg]

Not really they allready have arm Linux Android and bios they can recycle a lot of that code all they have to build is a new front end.

Re:VLC

[girlintraining]

... assuming Microsoft 'approves' it. Buying into a locked ecosystem is a mistake. It's rewarding a company for taking the ownership of your hardware away.

Well, there's now $65,000 out there willing to test the waters. And the developers don't lose anything if it fails -- only the investors do. I'd guess a lot of that will be spent on the lawyer screwing about over patents... it might be the case that the only thing required is a few edits here and there to surgically transplant the UI. Porting an app usually costs a fraction of the original development cost. If portability was considered from the initial design, it might only require a few hours work to prep it for compiling on a different architecture. And it's open source; Projects that survive as long as VLC has do so because the programmers made it a goal to keep maintenance down. Release one bad app and you'll be supporting it for the rest of your life. :)

Re:VLC

[vux984]

It works perfectly fine as a desktop app; and I've got VLC installed myself.

But this new version should also run on ARM windows RT devices along with Windows phones, where obviously the "usual version" currently does not, and would not really be appropriate user interface-wise even if it did.

A tablet / touch / full screen version of VLC for that platform makes a lot of sense, and it would be pretty nice on x86 windows 86 systems for watching movies etc -- I'd like it for my HTPC for example.

I'll keep the classic vlc on my desktop, but there is definitely a place for a so-called 'modern ui' version.

Re:VLC

[Nerdfest]

I'm curious about people moderating this as 'troll'. Do you think a locked ecosystem is a good thing? Do you think rewarding manufacturers who do it is going to result in you having more control over your hardware?

Re:VLC

[larry bagina]

He worked for Nokia, so not as likely.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true. They should focus on Apple instead.

Re:VLC

[Eirenarch]

There is zero chance that MS will not improve it. They are desperate for apps and they approve total crap. They will not ban a quality app. Also the music player has nothing to do with selling music. The player is not related to the files you get from their service.

Re:VLC

[chronokitsune3233]

Don't forget they'll need to speak "Metro" rather than "Android" too. What you're saying is true in that a lot of code could be recycled, and it probably will be. However, there's much more that can't be recycled. That's the stuff that would need refactoring and retooling.

Re:VLC

[Eirenarch]

Many people may not like the Don't-call-it-Metro UI but here are $65K that like it.

Re:VLC

[Flipao]

It does if you can't give it its intended use because the app you need is not being approved.

Furthermore, should Microsoft ever manage to turn Metro/Windows Store into a dominant platform, it could use its leverage to (for example) keep Open Source software out its app store.

Re:VLC

[Flipao]

No, you need to be a developer. With Metro, it's Microsoft's way or the highway.

Re:VLC

[ne0n]

Right, they'll let it live it until it threatens any MS property or initiative.

Re:VLC

[mrbrown1602]

That one asshole developer claims on his blog that it is "uncertain" whether or not the terms of the Windows Store are compatible with the GPLv2 and then goes on an incomprehensible rant about the App Store and Applidium (the developers of the short-lived iOS VLC app), all in the name of 'freedom'. As in beer.

So, yes, in short, he's still an asshole.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Or they'll let it live period.

Re:VLC

[caferace]

Or 10 anons at Microsoft with $6500 a piece.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

It does not matter whether or not it is approved. People can still install software just like they always have,
http://www.ilovefreesoftware.com/26/windows8/how-to-use-windows-8.html

Re:VLC

[Pinhedd]

In order for an application to be perfectly portable between Windows 8, Windows RT, and Windows Phone 8 it needs to target the WinRT Run Time (related to, but not synonymous with Windows RT). Currently, VLC presumably targets the Win32 runtime which means it will run just fine on Windows 8, but not on Windows RT or Windows Phone 8.

Re:VLC

[girlintraining]

I'm curious about people moderating this as 'troll'. Do you think a locked ecosystem is a good thing? Do you think rewarding manufacturers who do it is going to result in you having more control over your hardware?

You had me right up until the third word: Think. No, the moderators do not think. They agree or disagree. Thinking is so Malda-era, and our new Web 3.0 monetization of the synergy of infolectual peer based interaction systems function better without it.

Re:VLC

[Eirenarch]

Yeah and then they would not let it into the store as comments above suggest :)

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

There is zero chance that MS will not improve it.

That's the part I worry about.

Sort of like how they "improved" Windows Live Mail for the new Metro Windows Mail and it can't use POP accounts anymore.

Re:VLC

[elashish14]

The issue is not whether they will approve it or not. The issue is in the principle of acting as if the hardware vendor has the right to choose what software the user and proprietor chooses to run.

As developers, we should not be complicit this terrible precendent, and we should not contribute in any way to the positive health of this system.

Re:VLC

[SeaFox]

Just wondering if that one asshole developer who blocked the client on iOS will block it for windows phone as well.

Couldn't the other developers have just wrote new code to serve the functionality of the stuff he wrote and replace his code, thereby removing him from the project contributor list in effect and making his opinion moot?

Re:VLC

[kestasjk]

For media consumption devices yes; they mean a marketplace in which theft is harder, so software is cheaper and there's more experimentation with DLC, and it makes malware much harder to propogate, no devices which can't afford background processes or anti-virus.

For media creation devices it's a nice option to have at least.

Also I've written apps for my Windows Phone; they're easy to write, and they're pretty specific to things I want (graphing my phone data usage, implementing my password system). They didn't get accepted into the marketplace because I didn't meet a couple of requirements (e.g. pressing Back doesn't take you out of the app from the welcome screen; a reasonable complaint), and since I'm not desperate to get onto the marketplace I haven't yet bothered to fix them up.
I can run my software, the marketplace loses out on some relatively unpolished/personal software, I don't get any unpolished/personal software on the marketplace; it's a tradeoff I can live with.

Re:VLC

[kestasjk]

I like the new UI; one of the big complaints about it is that it's just a start menu that you need to get through to see the standard desktop. That'll change as more apps start to use the new UI, like VLC. I think it's great that an established OSS project is going for cutting edge new platforms under its own steam instead of sitting around and waiting for a new enthusiast to do it (and probably get a bashing from the main dev group for doing so).

Re:VLC

[Dr Max]

Why didn't you tell all the iphone developers that before they broke the system.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

No, everyone can side load on windows rt or phone.

Re:VLC

[Nerdfest]

I did. Greed is a greater motivator than freedom for many.

Re:VLC

[Dr Max]

Very true.

Re:VLC

[lister king of smeg]

*ios not bios stupid auto-correct

Re:VLC

[tompaulco]

The issue is in the principle of acting as if the hardware vendor has the right to choose what software the user and proprietor chooses to run.
Or, in this case, the software vendor.

Re:VLC

[saleenS281]

The project has now been funded by over 2,500 backers...

Or not.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course they'll approve it, who do you think FUNDED it? Nobody else actually wants metro VLC.

Re:VLC

[SilenceBE]

I was always under the impression his reasoning had to do with his irrational hatred agains iDevice users. When you explain your actions with "I don't care for iDevice users" there isn't much room for discussion.

Now when looking at his resume which is plasterd with Nokia adventures, I have the feeling it has a lot more to do with butthurt and frustration regarding the downfall of Nokia.

The whole freedom, fsf, whatever claim seems also weird for somebody that mentions different software patents on his resume. I find it kind of hypocritical for somebod with high freedom morals.

Seeing his works relations with Nokia I want to bet on it, nithing will happen. That ks typical for such kind of people.

Re:VLC

[penix1]

The whole freedom, fsf, whatever claim seems also weird for somebody that mentions different software patents on his resume. I find it kind of hypocritical for somebod with high freedom morals.

True freedom would be donating the code to the public domain so in that regard even the FSF is hypocritical since the GPL itself has restrictions in its use.

Re:VLC

[gmhowell]

Thinking is so Malda-era,

I hope you mean this in the generic sense rather than specifically referring to this website when CmdrTaco was around. Quite frankly, it didn't seem that he gave two shits beginning somewhere around the time when Y2K didn't end the world or maybe right after he proposed.

Unless you've got a considerably smaller UID to come back with, I'm going to have to say that your longing for some greater, better, more wonderful time is complete and total horseshit. Slashdot has always sucked. At times, off and on, it has sucked slightly less. At the time, the Halloween documents were relevant to day-to-day operations, Wil Wheaton still posted here, my grits were hot, and Natalie Portman left parts of me petrified.

Get. Off. My. LAWN!

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out the list of issues to be conquered. The amount of code to rewrite is significant in this case. The developers do lose a significant amount of development time if this fails but gain knowledge about the limitations of the RT during the way.

Release one bad app and you'll be supporting it for the rest of your life.

An app that have users should be supported just like a garden or a herd of cows tended and milked. App is like a digital child or a Pokemon with lifetime bounded only by its environment and like a Pokemon, an app should be tended for rest of its life by a responsible parent/gardener/trainer.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

That one asshole developer claims on his blog that it is "uncertain" whether or not the terms of the Windows Store are compatible with the GPLv2 and then goes on an incomprehensible rant about the App Store and Applidium (the developers of the short-lived iOS VLC app), all in the name of 'freedom'. As in beer.

So, yes, in short, he's still an asshole.

Anyone else noticed that Remlab reversed is Balmer?

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

> Buying into a locked ecosystem is a mistake. It's rewarding a company for taking the ownership of your hardware away.

That's the reason people are so excited about locked ecosystems! They don't want to work in computer maintenance. So they are giving ownership of their hardware away. So you're right, but it's not a mistake exactly.

Re:VLC

[westlake]

... assuming Microsoft 'approves' it. Buying into a locked ecosystem is a mistake. It's rewarding a company for taking the ownership of your hardware away.

The hardware doesn't belong to the third-party developer --- the hardware belongs to the user. Users who often have an entirely different set of values and expectations than the geek.

The Ubuntu Store has the look and feel of the Windows Store. Not at all, surprisingly, since it is targeting the same market. Most of the apps prominently on display on these sample pages are available for both platforms.

How much of his hardware does the geek really "own?"

If the geek were honest with himself he would admit that his distribution's Linux repository is selective --- not every free or commercial Linux program makes the cut.

The mass market Linux app store will always be even more selective in its offerings.

The shopper there will have no interest in navigating the depths and complexities of app-get and he will not be compiling-from-source programs that have not been packaged and tested for his use.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone else noticed that Remlab reversed is Balmer?

Nice catch. But as someone who has beers with Remi from time to time, I can attest he looks nothing like old Steve :-)

Re:VLC

[isorox]

There is zero chance that MS will not improve it. They are desperate for apps and they approve total crap. They will not ban a quality app. Also the music player has nothing to do with selling music. The player is not related to the files you get from their service.

I suspect Microsoft have contributed a large amount to the project

Re:VLC

[hairyfeet]

Actually I'd say its more like 100% that it will NOT get put on WinRT and WinPhone and it will NOT be because of MSFT, it will be because of a douchebag developer just like we saw when they tried to port VLC to the appstore and iPhone.

This is why I predict that GPL will be dead in 5 years for all places not connected to server space, the devs will have no choice but to either go with another license or get every contributor to sign a wavier saying the head dev has sole ownership of the code. Since the hardcore GPL zealots will never agree to that, and because none of the MSFT or Apple appstores will EVER be GPL V3 compatible, the devs will have no choice but to move away from GPL to something like BSD or MPL or Apache licenses.

Again look up what happened when they tried to port VLC to the Apple appstore, i'm sure the same douchebag that threw a fit then will again wait until right before its gonna launch and throw another bitchfit and make all their work for naught. This is a problem that has been plaguing FOSS for awhile I predict is gonna finally come to a head, on one side you have the pragmatists that want as many people as possible to use FOSS and then you have what I call the "FOSSies" that wouldn't care if only a single person used GPL as long as it was "ideologically pure".

At the end of the day NO GPL apps that aren't completely owned by the dev team will make it into the appstores, since they have no more right to the code than any of us here do. The appstores don't allow you to hand it out to others for free, don't allow you to load the code without jailbreaking, therefor its gonna run afoul of the GPL redistribution clause, simple as that.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

"look up what happened when they tried to port VLC to the Apple appstore"
I did. So some company named Applidium took the VLC code, ported it and stuck it in the Apple store. VLC code owner complained. You disagree. Zzzzzz.

Re:VLC

[drinkypoo]

Yes, what an asshole for preventing his work being used for precisely the purpose he didn't want it used for. It's almost like he put his time and effort into it and you didn't and therefore don't have a leg to stand on but are crying about it anyway because you have a deep sense of entitlement.

Re:VLC

[LWATCDR]

A lot of people want someone to else to keep them safe. As long as sideloading is an option I am not going to get too upset about "official app stores".
The issue for me is, why waste the effort? Windows 8 is not popular at all. It lacks apps and the OS is buggy. Windows 8, Windows Phone 8, and Windows 8 rt are going to be a bigger fail for Microsoft than Vista ever was. Just as the tech press, Microsoft faithful, and a few techies here and there will pop up with, "It is fine, I have no problems, and You just have to get used to it." End users will hold on to Windows 7 machines for dear life until hardware vendors demand Windows 7 so they can sell hardware. Windows Phone 8 is just not good enough to get people to leave IOS or Android and they have no real customer base. RT is in the same boat, no existing customer base, no apps, and just not good enough for people to switch for. Throw in that the software has real problems and you have a disaster.

Re:VLC

[devent]

Wait. So the developer of VLC, that application that you so much use, have chosen to license the app and libraries under an open source license and have chosen to make VLC for free available to you.

Now that Apple have chosen to make their app-store not GPL friendly, and Mircosoft have chosen to do the same, you say he, the developer, is an "asshole"?

wow, just wow. I think if you look at the mirror you can see the real "asshole" here.
Where is your contribution to VLC, where is your media library?

Re:VLC

[Eirenarch]

That's up to the people with $65K to decide. The effort of the devs is not wasted because they are paid to do it.

Re:VLC

[Eirenarch]

And this is exactly why they need $65K to port it

Re:VLC

[ConfusedVorlon]

He is one of the very few core VLC developers and has been for some time. He is involved in a lot of the hard bits of VLC's code, so it is very unlikely that his code could be replaced.

Re:VLC

[hairyfeet]

Way to ignore the facts, here are the FACTS. FACT 1, the "company" was made up of four of the lead devs of VLC, FACT 2, the "owner" was one guy out of dozens who had written code, FACT 3 the "owner" made it clear HE WILL NEVER ALLOW VLC to be placed in ANY appstore that "doesn't support the four freedoms".

So you can waste mod point and pretend black is white and straw is gold, but the facts are that with a "community project" if they didn't make every contributor sign a waiver that gives the head of the project sole ownership (which VLC most assuredly DID NOT do) then any place the program is ported to HAS TO support all the conditions of whichever GPL version they have the program under (which I do believe is GPL V3 which has even worse conditions than GPL V2) or the program can NOT be placed there PERIOD.

So make up your mind Ms AC, either the GPL can be ignored or it can't, which is it? Considering that RMS says Android is too locked down to be called FOSS do you HONESTLY want to try to sell us that the GPL isn't gonna have a problem with the locked down winRT? As you can see here there is NO place that it says you have to give them the rights to your contributions, and since it says quite clearly its a COMMUNITY project unless every. single. one. that donated their code agrees then it CAN'T BE DONE. To say different but be like me saying if I can get one guy on the Debian team to say "sure!" I could make a completely proprietary Debian, it don't work like that.

How fucking sad is it that the Windows guy knows more about the GPL than the koolaid drinkers?

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the beauty of Kickstarter. Ask the question "should we waste the effort?" and see how the community responds. In this case, the effort is obviously not going to waste since there are people willing to pay for it.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems you're trying to put a lot of words in my mouth. Anyway, I'll respond to this:
"any place the program is ported to HAS TO support all the conditions of whichever GPL version they have the program under"
Exactly. That's the point.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

90% of the kickstarter donators are obvious Microsoft shills that want to pretend that Windows 8 is popular enough to have VLC ported.

Re:VLC

[jones_supa]

There seems to be a Microsoft shill conspiracy theory behind every corner these days.

Re:VLC

[wvmarle]

Doesn't Windows 8 have the option of using alternative app stores, like Android?

Re:VLC

[wvmarle]

In what way could an app store be GLP-incompatible?

What I can think of mostly is the distribution of the source. Providing a download link in some kind of "about" screen should take care of that part. So what am I missing?

Re:VLC

[devent]

No it has not. The GPL makes no restrictions on the use of the code, on the contrary, it grands your rights that you normally do not have.

The GPL makes only restrictions if you give the code or application to other users. And the restrictions are only that you grand your users the same rights you previously enjoyed.

How is so, that if you are enjoying the rights you normally would not have it is fine, but if other want to enjoy the same rights, you come and tell: the GPL is restrictive?

it's the same as the slave trade back in the days. You enjoy your right of freedom but if others wants to enjoy the same right, you don't want. (only reference slave trade because I watched the movie Amistad recently)

Re:VLC

[jones_supa]

Can we cut the taco-left-slashdot-waah talk behind already? After he left, the site has not seen any kind of significant change in terms of comments or stories. The things that sucked are still here, the things that kicked ass are still here.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds like something a shill would say. Are you German?

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course not, he looks like backwards Steve.

Re:VLC

[The Archon V2.0]

That's just what a shill would say!

But yeah, seriously, drives me nuts. Microsoft releases an OS showing their lack of understanding of their userbase then proceeds to insinuate itself deeply into said userbase in an effort to manipulate it? Seems like if you were going to sink millions of dollars into that kind of subtle and pervasive marketing you could just put it into subtle and pervasive market research instead and not release a nuclear turd interface.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

The issue is not whether they will approve it or not. The issue is in the principle of acting as if the hardware vendor has the right to choose what software the user and proprietor chooses to run.

This is absolutely not an issue. Otherwise people would still be up-in-arms over Kinds, iOS devices, Google Play, Mac App Store, Ubuntu Repository, etc., etc. It's just not an issue outside this little asbergers circlejerk that is /.

Re:VLC

[hairyfeet]

Then they can't put fucking VLC on a LOCKED PLATFORM LIKE WINRT can they fucknuts? You want to know why I fucking hate FOSSies and look at them as mouth breathing retards? Well here ya go, so fucking stupid they can't even READ THEIR OWN LICENSE and understand what it is. You CAN NOT put VLC on a locked platform because its a COMMUNITY PROJECT UNDER GPL, how fucking hard is that for you to understand?

Let me spell it out in little words since obviously plenty of the FOSSies can't read or at least can't comprehend their own damned license, 1.-GPL does NOT allow the program to be locked, 2.- the program can NOT be offered under a different license without removing every single bit of code that anybody OTHER than the 4 guys that run the project contributed, which means 3.-You CAN NOT HAVE VLC under an appstore because appstores don't allow the "four freedums" DUH! It would be like saying I could just start distributing Win 7 bootlegs on a streetcorner because I personally respect the 4 freedoms...well who gives a rat's ass what I want when ITS NOT MINE TO GIVE and the SAME THING applies to VLC, because its a COMMUNITY project the head of the project who just got free money for writing an app he knows will NEVER exist can't change the license of VLC anymore than I can change the license on Windows, it DOES NOT BELONG TO HIM!!!!!

Christ no wonder FOSSies are like a damned cult, just like a cult they are too fucking stupid to survive in the real world without someone spelling every little thing out for them! How in the FUCK do you think that a GPL V3 project would be allowed in ANY way, shape, or form on a locked down appstore like Win8/WinRT? Because I honestly want to read this "brilliant" explanation on how one can completely ignore the 4 freedoms and still get the program. If you have figured out a loophole for GPL V3 please share, otherwise you are just too fucking stupid to live.

Re:VLC

[OdinOdin_]

Which of the 4 freedoms does the "app store" violate ?

From the GPL v3 ?

        the freedom to use the software for any purpose,
        the freedom to change the software to suit your needs,
        the freedom to share the software with your friends and neighbors, and
        the freedom to share the changes you make.

I don't see any of these being violated by VLC itself and it is only VLC that is covered by GPL. The use of an app store does not inhibit the redistribution of source code for the GPL licensed parts.

Furthermore which app store take on complete legal responsibility for the copyrighted works? Meaning if there was an issue with an application the app store itself is not liable but the agreement makes the data uploading party (aka the publishing entity) legally responsibly for their actions.

I see the "walled garden app store" becoming extinct, the public only put up with so much getting shafted and the first movers always profit from it but as it becomes mainstream public awareness will only increase and they will learn how to avoid the trap.

Once it all blows over the public should be left with the results of the technology drive (TPM, white-list only runnable code, signed code) to use for their own useful purpose. There will always be a manufacturer who will make a similar model of the same hardware that isn't crippled and hardware keeps getting replaced/updated. This will all take some years yet to blow over.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

It was never my argument that they can put it on a locked down platform. They can't and that's a feature. Your disagreeing with it is incosequential.

Re:VLC

[hairyfeet]

You SERIOUSLY don't see the problem? Let me make this clear, THREE out of the FOUR freedoms CAN NOT EXIST on a closed appstore platform. Can you see the code? Sure. Can you modify? NO because it won't accept modded programs. can you share? NO because it won't load without jailbreaking and voiding your warranty. can you share your changes? NO because of the previous reasons given.

And if you think walled appstores are gonna go away I have a game of 3 card monty you have got to play, I'm sure you'll find the lady! Who is the biggest company on the planet? APPLE. What gives them all that money? LOCKED DOWN HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE. If you theory was correct then Apple would have warehouses full of devices they can't sell, instead they have lines around the block for each new release.

Done right an appstore is frankly superior, the publishers like it because it cuts way down on piracy, the consumer likes it because its simple and easy one stop shopping, the key is pricing and ease of use. take the one appstore i use, Steam. Could I pirate those games? yeah, but why would I? Then I'd have to give up MP, find cracks for each new patch, hope that I could find cracked versions of the DLC, or I can just buy the program through Steam and ALL the updates are taken care of, NO hunting for cracks or DLC, its all just "click button to buy" and its done. do I give a rat's ass that Steam means I can't give my games away or resell? Nope because resale value is virtually nil anymore and if I want to give somebody a game I can just check the box that says "give as a gift" and then they can have their own copy and I won't lose mine.

But if you want to see the future, which frankly for the next 5 years at least is gonna blow donkey balls, look up "Windows Blue" and see for yourself. its the secret Ballmer memo that shows what he is gonna do to the PC platform and all the FOSSies and FOSS users are about to get a train pulled on their ass. basically Ballmer is gonna turn Windows into Apple, its gonna be a locked down platform with Microsoft hardware running Microsoft software so you won't have to worry about the "Windows tax" because your OS isn't gonna be able to run on it anyway. Linux is gonna be relegated to the server room and the ultra expensive workstation market, even the CPU and the RAM is gonna be soldered to the board so the days of DIY are gonna be over, its back to the 1980s with proprietary everything and black boxes as far as the eye can see?

Am I happy about this? Not a chance in hell, but sadly Ballmer is right, the vast majority have NO problem with total black box computing which is why Apple is the biggest company on the planet. You can't even try to bring up antitrust because MSFT is now the underdog which means you'd also have to go after Apple and that just isn't gonna happen, they are too well liked by the public.

But back to VLC, as you can see the four freedoms can NOT be respected in an appstore model like Win 8 and especially WinRT and I'm sure that guys smart enough to make a complex video decoder like VLC know this, they just got free money for a program that will NEVER see the light of day. Look up the talks between the VLC team and the contributor that blocked the Apple appstore version, he pointed out in detail with every clause pointed out in detail why you simply can't put a community project like VLC on a locked down appstore, all it takes is a single contributor to disagree and refuse to sign away his rights and that's it, you HAVE to keep it GPL. This is also why Torvalds can't move from GPL V2 as there have been thousands over the years that have had work integrated into the kernel and since Torvalds didn't have the "or better" clause and didn't think to have a waiver signing rights over to his team he can never change it without doing a clean room rebuild of all the code he'd have to have removed.

Mark my words Odin the rise of the appstore is gonna be the deathnell for the GPL community project, either the projects will be started with a more permissive license like

Re:VLC

[JWW]

He was one contributor to VLC, not the sole creator of it.

In fact his actions stopped a whole bunch of VLC contributors who MADE the iOS app from distributing what they created.

So yes, that his actions to remove VLC from the app store were the actions of an asshole.

Re:VLC

[devent]

So just re-implement his code and put VLC in the app-store again. Shouldn't be that difficult?

Ah see that's the crux of it all. He didn't anything wrong, in fact he created something you have used and enjoyed for free. But now that Apple chooses to have their app-store GPL unfriendly you are pissed at him. How about you send a letter to Apple?

Re:VLC

[JWW]

I can't re-implement his code, its covered under the GPL! In fact that's the crux of the matter.

In order to get around what he did you'd need to develop a clean sheet implementation of VLC which included none of the code from the GPL version.

Because what you suggest is exactly what the people who built the iOS app did and he used the GPL to singlehandedly dash their efforts.

My original point was that if walled gardens are bad (and they do have some negative consequences), then Microsoft's Windows 8 store should not distribute a VLC app either for exactly the same reasons the iOS app was quashed. Anything else and this guy is acting like a hypocrite and yes, an asshole.

Regarding Apple, I do agree they could improve their policy with respect to free apps. I would love to see open source apps allowed to be distributed from the App store without any DRM attached at all. That would be enough to render this issue moot.

New Kickstarter Idea

[binarylarry]

How about we start a kickstarter to not port VLC to windows phone?

Re:New Kickstarter Idea

[Sir_Sri]

For real.

This was a stupid idea. Windows 8 is a trainwreck. No serious application should be aiming for microsoft app store approval. Turning windows into a walled garden is bad for windows and bad for the PC industry as a whole. If all you have is an app store (google play or iOS app store) app, fine whatever, porting it to windows walled garden isn't making it any worse. But taking a program from the open platform desktop into the walled garden of 'metro' is a monumentally bad idea.

Now the thing is, windows 8 isn't just bad because the store is a bad idea. It's bad because it glues two completely different interfaces together in a confusing manner. And how they fix that, with windows 9, may mean a completely rewrite of 'apps' or programs, or both. And until we know what that is going to require we shouldn't be throwing money at windows 8 projects.

Those are two very separate problems, one philosophical and industry related, and the other a very open ended technical question.

Re:New Kickstarter Idea

[Eirenarch]

Because of the freedom right? We should outbid the people who are willing to pay for the Win8/WP port and make them free by denying them free software.

Re:New Kickstarter Idea

[Eirenarch]

Who do you mean by "we"? Because $65K do not agree with you.

Re:New Kickstarter Idea

[kestasjk]

If you don't like it don't use it. (But you will, of course, eventually. And once you've accepted the change you'll like it. As always.)

Re:New Kickstarter Idea

[bemymonkey]

... and focus on finishing the Android version.

Re:New Kickstarter Idea

[Microlith]

I can avoid using it for only so long, Microsoft is forcing the issue, ramming a walled-garden tablet UI down all of our throats. I don't think I'll get around to liking a crippled walled garden capable only of single full screen tasks

But yes we will eventually be forced to use it. Whether we want to or not.

Re:New Kickstarter Idea

[garyoa1]

Accept it? Sure. Like it? Not necessarily. I dunno how many programs over the years I've upgraded and found that I actually downgraded after it was too late.

Re:New Kickstarter Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, my ex-mac-zealot that now works for microsoft friend came over to my place yesterday and showed me his surface rt tablet. One of the things he pointed out was the ability to tile apps for multitasking.

Re:New Kickstarter Idea

[Sir_Sri]

As I said in my post. How the fix it will be windows 9, and the technical future of that product is far too uncertain to be hoping windows 8 development will directly translate to windows 9.

Re:New Kickstarter Idea

[Sir_Sri]

It's not like 65k is a lot of money.

But therein lies the problem, and what I was getting at with windows 9. Depending on what MS does to fix their UI issues for windows 9 we could be seeing these guys come hat in hand to us again in a year or two, and this money will have been wasted.

Everyone here, you, me, every single VLC developer, should be vigorously resisting anything to do with windows 8 until MS gets its shit together. I don't really want to find out I've donated money to a plan that is going to become like silverlight, and basically abandoned, or, god help us, replaced back with silverlight since the whole mess that is windows 8 is largely a result of the internal MS shitstorm that was the battle between silverlight and WPF, where thus far silverlight has lost, but the people in charge of that choice are now gone.

http://www.liveside.net/2012/08/22/is-this-what-really-happened-to-silverlight/

Let Windows 8 Die

[muncadunc]

I would be much happier if nobody ported their software, and Windows 8 was allowed to completely fail.

Then Microsoft would be forced to fix the UI and bring back the start menu.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[LordLimecat]

Windows 8 is my new main OS at home. Im figuring it out, and less unhappy than I was when I first got it. But it is the least discoverable UI I have ever used; Ubuntu was oodles easier to use.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't work for Ubuntu. Yes there is Linux Mint and friends but they rely on Debian and Ubuntu upstreams. Canonical abused the Ubuntu brand good will to push amazon spyware and unity. Same with Gnome3 and Firefox after version 3.6.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[Anonymous Coward]

Then use Ubuntu and stop crying like a little bitch.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting. The more I use it the more unhappy I am with it. At first I thought it was a little wierd (the whole 2 UI thing) but I figured I would get used to it. I have gotten used to it but like it less and less every day as I discover another annoying and arbitrary design decision. I put classic shell, so I can't complain about lack of a Start menu, I have that. The latest thing that really bugs me is that there are settings buried both in the desktop Control Panel, and also in the "Metro" Settings->Change PC Settings. You just have to know which ones are at which location.

And for all the defenders out there, there is nothing I have not been able to figure out, even if it has required search or help. I've never had to resort to documentation (help or google) with a graphical UI. The lack of discoverability is going to piss off a lot of users. Even when they get used to it windows 8 will leave them with a bad taste in their mouth.

My recommendation to Microsoft - unify the split personality. Allow users to choose "Metro Style" or "Desktop Style" and stay entirely within that UI. I see no technical reason that Desktop apps could not run in a Metro window or metro apps run in a desktop window.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[LordLimecat]

Ubuntu doesnt do the things I need it to do. For instance, if I want to do virtualization in Hyper-V, thats simply not an option, and HyperV remains a fairly large player in the VM market.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[LordLimecat]

I would love if they did that. My decreasing unhappiness is partly due to the performance improvements, and as I discover things I really dont like (the control panel crap you mentioned), theres other things I really like-- the new task manager, the new taskbar multimon support, and the improvements to caching.

as I discover another annoying and arbitrary design decision.

"Arbitrary" pretty much defines every single problem that Windows 8 has, actually. One wonders what sort of usability study ended up with this UI as the top pick on desktop.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[elashish14]

It has nothing to do with usability. They're leveraging their monopoly on the desktop OEMs (again) to push their mobile platform. It's a business decision, not a user decision. If they wanted to make it usable, they're disable the tablet mode interface.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[binarylarry]

Ubuntu has both kvm/libvirt and VirtualBox available for it.

Both are high quality, proven virtualization solutions.

Hyper-V is a shitty slapped together solution Microsoft hurriedly arranged because they failed yet again to get into that market on time.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[Anonymous Coward]

Just gotta ask... how long do you think you people will be bitching about metro? We're now 17 months in, and the same exact complaints have been posted on almost a daily basis here on Slashdot. When do you think you're going to run out of steam? It's not going anywhere, so you have three options: install a start menu replacement, just use Windows 7 or any other OS, or just use it and shut the fuck up. No amount of bitching is going to bring the start menu back.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[hendridm]

Genuinely curious, as I am not an expert in these areas, but what is wrong with VirtualBox?

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[ikaruga]

Ubuntu may get a lot of trash talking from the computer savy comunity(and for valid reasons), but for the average Joe it's an excellent OS. For mundane tasks I actually find it easier to use then Mac and windows combined. If it was backed by big OEMs and had a good marketing strategy behind it it would be easily at least as popular as Android is on the phones(as suggested by Linus himself during that infamous "Fuck you Nvidia" video). And even though I'm recently converted to KDE Mint, I still hope Ubuntu becomes a mainstream OS someday. It's commercial success will indirectly contribute to the advance of other Linux distros as well with better driver support, more software and more interest in the OSS concepts as well.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[ruir]

Linux has XEN, a fairly superior solution, specially if you are leveraging a virtual linux cloud... Hyper-V is an abortion.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[ruir]

Virtualbox should only be used for personal use, and even then it is a toy. When talking about enterprise solutions, the only game in town are either VMWare or XEN. And XEN only beats VMWare for virtualizing Linux servers IMO

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[LordLimecat]

Right. But thats not HyperV, and as I might need to do some testing in hyperv, i cant do that in Xen.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[LordLimecat]

HyperV 3 is by all rights considered to be a worthy contender to vSphere and Xen.

Xen has its own pile of baggage to deal with, like a buggy interface.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[Anonymous Coward]

VMware (Workstation, at least) has been available on Linux for years.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[LordLimecat]

HyperV 3 is also "a game in town" as it is in use in a lot of places and has a lot of features that are close to or as good as the other two.

It can be debated until the end of time which is best (vSphere, HyperV, Xen) but you cant pretend that those arent the "big 3" in virtualization, and I believe by all measurements vSphere is currently the top dog (except on licensing).

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[LordLimecat]

I fail to see how forcing a tablet UI on desktop users in a way that is clunky and hard to use somehow makes me want to use a MS tablet.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[LordLimecat]

HyperV was a terrible solution 5 years ago when it came out. It has since been through 3 iterations and is now a full fledged solution.

That you would even place VirtualBox (which noone in their right mind would host production servers on) in the same league with HyperV is laughable. Virtualbox is proven to be unreliable; that an upgrade of it could wipe out VMs (which was a known issue from 3.20 ->3.30) kind of proves the point.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[drinkypoo]

Genuinely curious, as I am not an expert in these areas, but what is wrong with VirtualBox?

It doesn't work, that's what. I had to give up on it and go back to using vmware player, because it kept crashing on me. And that's even without the 3d driver. That's not important to people running servers so much, but let me tell you, virtualbox's is garbage, and vmplayer's works. I have actually never had the 3d compatibility layer in virtualbox work, never ever not once. Meanwhile, it almost always works in vmplayer. And tons of software that runs fine in vmware that doesn't have any 3d access actually causes virtualbox to crash, or simply throw invalid results and I get strange and inscrutable errors.

I wanted to like virtualbox, because I would prefer to use a Free Software VM for a variety of reasons, but I didn't, because it doesn't work. And I tried both the commercial and open source versions for several versions before throwing my hands up in disgust. I try it again every while and have different but still poor results.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[isorox]

I would be much happier if nobody ported their software, and Windows 8 was allowed to completely fail.

Then Microsoft would be forced to fix the UI and bring back the start menu.

As long as progman.exe still works.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[cbhacking]

I agree in general. However, there's something I feel should be pointed out:

You refer to Search as though it's an option of last resort. That's backwards. Ever since Vista came out (6 years ago), the Start search has been *the* method you should use to launch programs or access settings. It's faster by far than navigating the Start menu or navigating the Control Panel, it can be done entirely with the keyboard ([Windows] + a few letters of the program name you want + [Enter]), it's practically instant on the search, it can find things even if you're not sure exactly what they're called (typing "dpi" will get you the relevant control panel view, even though the control panel in question is called "Display"), it filters as you type, and it will show both "The Interface Formerly Known As Metro" and Desktop apps/settings.

My biggest UI gripe with Win8, by far, is the way they divided the Start search results. It now takes a few more keystrokes to launch something from Settings, which is (IMO) a rather large regression. I don't mind the split UI, I actually rather like the Charms bar, and making Start be full screen doesn't bug me at all. Making me use a bunch of extra clicks to launch stuff from the keyboard is just a pain in the ass, though. You can still launch things by typing their binary name (for example, "secpol.msc" and "mmc.exe" and "appwiz.cpl") but that removes a number of the advantages listed above...

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[Microlith]

It's not to make you want to use it, it's to push the new UI and APIs, and build up their walled garden.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[devent]

I have a tip for Microsoft: Decouple the system from the desktop. Then I could finally install KDE on my Windows 7.

Well, but I'm using Windows only to lunch only my games anyway. But sometimes I don't come around and have to at least test my applications on Windows.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[Anonymous Coward]

- Incredibly crappy performance.
- Non-existing 3D acceleration support. Practically, it doesn't work at all.
- Only single-core support (unless this has recently changed).
- Did I mention incredibly crappy performance yet?
- Bad/nonexisting support for USB-devices (at least used to require non-free version?)

For virtualization, vmware or somesuch real VM is a must.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[ruir]

The point is not being used, but being a mature product, which HyperV it is not yet, despite what they say. Performance wise, nothing beats paravirtualized Linux servers in XEN; otherwise vSphere is far better, and is much more user-friendly indeed. The licensing however is (too) expensive.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[im_thatoneguy]

Using a touchscreen laptop has changed my mind about touchscreen laptops. It works amazingly well and I'm now desiring more metro apps.

In fact I'm using Slashdot right now on my surface with a touchpad which is essentially a laptop with a touchscreen. I find myself almost never using my old laptop now. I really want VLC though for RT since a lack of MKV support is my second biggest complaint after lack of photoshop.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[LordLimecat]

HyperV has a ton of useful features and its really hard to beat their licensing terms: free. Buy a copy of windows server and you get the host hypervisor for free.

I havent used it much (hence the desire to have it, for testing), but I also understand that with SCCM or whatever its called you can manage Xen, vSphere, and HyperV all from a single console.

Regardless, as has been expressed about a zillion times, my desire to use hyperV isnt because I think its better, its because I would like a lab where I can give it a runthrough and find out its strengths and weaknesses-- because it most certainly is used by businesses.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[LordLimecat]

Allowing KDE on windows would be a terrible move, since less than 0.1% of their user-base would have any desire to use it.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[ruir]

Amazon is based in XEN. At my job, we actually have a farm/vmware infra-structure of 200+ servers, where a bit less than half are Linux. Most bigger business here, banks too, are using VmWare. It maybe that in near future hyperV will get more used, however we dont trust it.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[devent]

User base of KDE or user base of Windows?
Compared to the KDE desktop, the Windows desktop is horrible.
So why is always allowing more choice is somewhat bad in the computer industry?

Even if only 1 user worldwide would like to use KDE on Windows, it's a) anyway a good idea to decouple the system and the desktop shell (security wise and see the success of Linux everywhere, from toaster, to TV, to server, to supercomputer) and b) why not allowing it?

But of course then you can't push your GUI to the users and force them to adapt.
For example, if Windows XP would have the option to install alternative desktops like KDE or Gnome, then nobody would ever "upgrade" to Windows Vista or Windows 7.

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do people whine about "bring back the Start menu" while you can use Start8 what brings it.

The problem is not the missing Start menu in Windows side, but the forcing of Modern UI to be visible and used nearly every possible situation when wanted to swap apps or launch them otherwise than shortcut from desktop itself.

What Microsoft should do is to remove Modern UI and offfer it only separate download and installation after user has taken Windows computer in use (read: No OEM can pre-install it!).

Re:Let Windows 8 Die

[Anonymous Coward]

When you learn the UI, even the bad ones becomes a knowledge what is hard to leave behind.

1. Push own software system to every (99%) new PC what is sold (Mac is not a PC, and rarely people buy PC with empty HDD)
2. Design a totally different GUI what others have and call it "Innovation" and "Modern"
3. Push new GUI to Smartphones software system
4. Push new GUI to PC software system
5. Gain dominant market position on smartphone market.
6. Profit!
7. ???

65K?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why, that's annual salary of an entry-to-mid level programmer. Seems like it would take a whole lot more. Sort of a strange target.

Re:65K?

[__Paul__]

Alternatively, it is the salary of a high-level programmer who is willing to take a pay-cut in order to avoid daily commuting, pair-programming, stand-up meetings, team-building weekends, unpaid overtime, Six Sigma, and all the other bullshit that comes with high-paying jobs in the corporate world.

Re:65K?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not starting from scratch, I would think a single competent developer could port the code in less than a year. It's not like a video player needs a project manager or a UI specialist or anything, as long as you keep the scope creep in check.

Re:65K?

[Sir_Sri]

We do student projects on this scale in 4 months with 5-6 kids. Doesn't seem like it's that big a deal.

It's just changing the UI to use the metro language, and performance optimization for ARM on windows RT and anything that crops up along the way. It's not trivial, but it's not like they have to write an entire media player, with codec support etc. from scratch, or at least, hopefully don't.

Re:65K?

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh?

Re:65K?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not a part of this world. Is a stand-up meeting a bad thing? Seems like it'd get people to be as concise as possible if they're literally standing up.

Re:65K?

[Anonymous Coward]

not anymore, management has gone to the gym while we were busy working on the products. Now they get to make us suffer both mentally and physically while we pretend to listen to them.

Re:65K?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an agile term.... ours are perverted to be 1 hour long meetings every day (sitting down).

Re:65K?

[Anonymous Coward]

Programmers they have in abundance, they need design artists. Hopefully it won't take them a year to complete their work and as the money is being collected in GBP, I would assume they would be hiring a British artist which is a little cheaper than their US counterpart.

Re:65K?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, as a high level programmer I took a pay-cut to about 2x this to work from home. You are seriously undervaluing yourself.

Re:65K?

[im_thatoneguy]

Or the salary for 3-6 months for one to two senior developers, perhaps directing a team of volunteers.

It sounds like they want to be in beta by march which seems like a pretty quick timeline.

Re:65K?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck Six Sigma with a hot iron.

Kickstarter UK Projects ...

[Anonymous Coward]

are limited in the amount of Attention they can get.

Simply because:
1. The biggest English-Speaking-Communitys Currency is not present on the Project-Pages.
2. Nobody can use their Amazon-Account to pledge. (I think this was one of the biggest contributing Factors to Kickstarter US-Projects).
3. The Trust in Kickstarter UKs Credit-Card-Security is limited.

Re:Kickstarter UK Projects ...

[Sir_Sri]

That probably hurts things like the Elite update, which is about 400k short (~30%) with about 2 weeks left.

Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

You fools! What have you done?!
Do you not understand the monster you have unleashed on the world?!

Re:Oh dear

[fredgiblet]

Oh come on, VLC isn't THAT bad.

Re:Flusing $65,000 down the toilet

[Anonymous Coward]

It would take way more than $65,000 to teach you to spell.

Indeed.

How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[Dan East]

I used to use VLC exclusively, but then it began to choke on newer codecs and more demanding resolutions. I upgraded and the latest build was far worse (no audio half the time, problems skipping, etc) so I had to revert back to an older version. I've switched to Media Player Classic (which I used to use over 5 years ago before VLC) and am very pleased because it "simply works". So IMO, MPC has leapfrogged VLC in their back and forth development surges. The fact that the latest releases of VLC were worse leads me to believe whatever developers are now active are not doing such a good job.

Until VLC can be made to halfway work on ANY platform, I'd be hesitant to try and push it out to Windows 8. There are fundamental problems with the low level decoding right now that need to be fixed first, before high level GUI / API / OS stuff is tweaked for a new OS.

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure what platform you're using it on, but for myself, on a WIN7 system, there hasnt been a codec that can't be played and I download a ton of crap.

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe Dan has some really esoteric porn from the east?

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[fermion]

While on non-MS Windows there are many different GUIs to play videos, on MS Windows I have found VLC to be the only reliable method to play videos. Now on MS Windows 7 and 8 MS may have included a workable interface, so VLC may not be a necessity. On other platforms it is optional.

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[ruir]

I concur that, VLC is needing some optimization on the codecs. Using mountain Lion here, and albeit it works, it is often working in the edge. It is rather noticeable, and once in a while, in some more heavy codecs, I have to minimize it for a while for it to keep up and then get back to full screen

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[bemymonkey]

Interesting, what do you mean by more demanding resolutions? I haven't had any problems whatsoever with good old 1080p source material, even when playing back on high-res displays (2560x1600) with rather old hardware.

Are you playing 4k or 8k something else insane? Have you checked your CPU load? Activated HWA decoding?

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[drinkypoo]

I used to use VLC exclusively, but then it began to choke on newer codecs and more demanding resolutions.

I've noticed time and again that mplayer will play files that vlc claims to support, but that it chokes on. Usually gstreamer chokes on the same file, or will at least hang if you try to seek.

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[mooglez]

The thing with VLC is, that its a shit-ton more than just a media player. You can't really find any other single piece of software that could replace it IF you also use it for its other uses.

But I do agree, that for just playing video files, I am torn between it and MPC-HC

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[Ash-Fox]

I used to use VLC exclusively, but then it began to choke on newer codecs and more demanding resolutions.

You will find that various hardware acceleration features are disabled by default in VLC because they don't work for everyone (as opposed to the non-accelerated methods). If you turn those on, you should find brilliant performance.

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[im_thatoneguy]

I like MPC Home Theater edition best but isn't it just a fork of VLC? So wouldn't this get MPC HT out sooner since it would give them a starting point to build from?

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[SeaFox]

I like MPC Home Theater edition best but isn't it just a fork of VLC?

MPC-HC has nothing to do with VLC.
It's more like a fork of the original Media Player Classic when development fell off on it.

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two players what using I have always been possible to open any video.

1. MPlayer
2. VLC

And no, there is no files what I need to test with both to get it working, both opens 100% what I come around anywhere/anytime.

Re:How about fix VLC for ANY operating system!

[perryizgr8]

vlc always works...at least on my win7 system. that's just it, any codec, any stupid apple/real/flash crap, everything plays. if vlc is unable to play videos of a certain resolution, your computer needs an upgrade very badly.

But I found VLC too slow for my liking lately...

[bogaboga]

This isn't to troll, but I am sorry to say, that VLC versions 2.x.x and up were too slow for my liking compared to the 1.x.x seies. Talk of "improving the customer experience!"

Needless to say, I abandoned ship! On Android, I have discovered BSPlayer FREE . This is one player that will not throw errors at the multiple video formats I've thrown at it. VLC on Android isn't even out of beta! On windows, it chokes and sucks big time!

Funding

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 8 "port" is a smokescreen. This funding will allow even more features to be added in a short amount of time. So it is a good thing.

GPL? Does WIN8 / Win Phone not have DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

Was the DRM of Apple-Apps not the reason for removing it from the Apple-app-store?
Since most likely both new windows platforms use some DRM in the store would that not again be forbidden by licence?

Re:GPL? Does WIN8 / Win Phone not have DRM

[Kawahee]

Is the DRM stuff still applicable to the LGPL?

Parts of VLC are under LGPL now.

Actual VLC Kickstarter page

[Trillian_1138]

The article link in the OP has some interesting quotes, but to not include the actual Kickstarter project page (which still has 5 days to go) seems incredibly lazy...

IMO, this is a Good Thing(TM), MS aside.

[chronokitsune3233]

Extreme dislike for MS aside, would you rather have Granny G. launch an app from the Start screen or call you up always asking how to play some obscure media file because Windows Media Player won't play it, and she doesn't know what VLC is or where to find it?

Not only that, but consider it a marketing move. If you get there first and play a lot more media than WMP, maybe it can finally die off, and you'll increase your user base as well. While I doubt that is any of the motivation, it's a nice dream I have.

In any case, I hope this works out for the VLC team. VLC is a great application, both for regular users and power users.

Re:IMO, this is a Good Thing(TM), MS aside.

[Vanderhoth]

Things are harder to find using Metro tiles than in the start menu. It's too distracting with not enough information to quickly identify the program you want to run. This was discussed by Brian Boyko in the animated video posted a week ago. You can jump to the 19:20 time period to see the section where Brian talks about context and the difficulty in quickly identifying tiles. It could possibly be even harder since metro tiles are updated with live information.

I remember what it was like trying to help my late grandfather using windows XP every little thing was distracting and needed explanation. Over the phone you wouldn't know what is on screen in order to be able describe where the tile to be clicked is located. It's much easier to say "Click the start button, go to programs, accessories, games, solitaire" than to try and describe the images on the surroundings tiles.

I also see the tiles as becoming an advertising platform. Marketers will be able to update them constantly as can be done with the live info tiles. Flashing ads every few minutes is not something I want to see when I'm trying to find and start an application.

Re:IMO, this is a Good Thing(TM), MS aside.

[SeaFox]

Extreme dislike for MS aside, would you rather have Granny G. launch an app from the Start screen or call you up always asking how to play some obscure media file because Windows Media Player won't play it, and she doesn't know what VLC is or where to find it?

From my experiences with Metro apps, she would be calling you asking how to actually make the app do anything and how to get out of it afterwards with a Metro interface version.

MS Should PAY Developers...

[Anonymous Coward]

MS seriously needs to start paying app developers to port their stuff for the new platform. I still feel that they aren't trying hard enough to be successful in the smart phone\app market game.

They need to come out and publicly announce how much money they're willing to lose in order to develop a viable app ecosystem if anyone is going to take them seriously. At this point the number is going to need to be in the Billions of dollars, and if they lack the will to do that, then WP 8 will be a non-starter. Who the hell wants a smart phone with no apps? If they can't provide 500K good quality apps VERY soon, WP 8 will go the way of the Zune.

I don't get it, they made it work with XBox by throwing Billions at the problem, why can't they do it with phones?

Sorry for the AC post, I can't be bothered making an account...

It's not going to die

[dbIII]

With lock in, new PC sales, and people saying "it can't be too bad, it's from MS" it was going to get out there on a pile of machines even if it had ended up a bigger pile of shit than Vista than whatever it really is. I still have to support two piece of shit Vista 32bit machines because some idiots sneaked them in from the side, and Win8 doesn't seem to be hated as much as Vista was before the first service pack.

VLC 64-bit's VERY good on Win 64-bit... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

I see the opposite on Win7 64-bit, actually Dan East! To wit:

I went to Media Player Classic 64-bit for about a year, prior to lately/now!

(Since I went to 64-bit Windows 7 circa 2009 when it released)

However, lately, on SOME video files? MediaPlayer Classic began to LAG...

Even using its 'optimized' output option.

So, it was time to try VLC 64-bit & since versions before the one I use now in 2.05 just recently released (2.02 - 2.04)? It hauls ass, & doesn't "lag frames" like I've seen Media Player Classic do since version before 1.6.5.6366 (which was the last one I used, also recently updated & re-released).

Coolest part is - the VLC 64-bit build's not even FINAL yet.

* Now, admittedly - I'm NO EXPERT on multimedia (@ least not anymore & NOT that I ever was really since the last work I did programmatically in multimedia filework was this in that regards -> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22APK%22+and+%22Cd-Rom%22+and+%22Alarm%22&btnG=Search&hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&gbv=1 way, Way, WAY back circa 1997-2004 iirc, & that was only for std. sound formats like wav, cd rom music tracks, mp3, etc.).

HOWEVER... it appears to ME @ least, thusfar, that the problem ISN'T possibly in their code, but how the codecs are being implemented that they're using... thoughts?

Now, iirc, also - VLC implements a lot of their OWN code to do the work of external codecs... is this true? Operating on "trivia memory" here.

Thanks!

APK

P.S.=> Lastly - I'll take correction here from folks that are more "expert" in multimedia & CODECS than I am (and, thanks actually on that note: I am all about learning more - it's part of the reason, if not THE biggest reason, I hit forums like this one - nobody "knows it all", this field's TOO big & changes TOO fast)

... apk

Re:VLC 64-bit's VERY good on Win 64-bit... apk

[JonySuede]

keep on posting like that; seriously, you changed for the best :)
an ex- coward that now cower in fear of Mikaealchristthepet628

Apropos-of-nothing-UbuntuGuy(TM)

[Anonymous Coward]

Alright! Apropos-of-nothing-UbuntuGuy(TM) has appeared; I knew you wouldn't let me down!

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Get out of the open source/free software echo chamber: people are not only using Windows 8, not only enjoying Windows 8, but are willing to put up more money to enhance their Windows 8 experience.

Ironic donations aside, how much money would a Hurd kickstarter get?

I would have donated!

[elabs]

I didn't even know about this. Dang! I'm an example of someone who is willing to pay to get the apps I want.

Re:I would have donated!

[hendridm]

umm, 5 days left as of this post... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1061646928/vlc-for-the-new-windows-8-user-experience-metro?ref=search

Re:I would have donated!

[cbhacking]

You still could; the Kickstarter is still running. You can probably find a donation link on the VLC site in general too, although that wouldn't necessarily go towards the specific goal of a Windows Store version.

Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I looked at VLC it tried to install some toolbar crap by default so I declined. Fuck that, I'm not installing some advertising shite just to watch some video.

ffdshow + matroska pack lite + haali media splitter + media player classic = sorted.

Re:Meh

[Ash-Fox]

Last time I looked at VLC it tried to install some toolbar crap by default so I declined. Fuck that, I'm not installing some advertising shite just to watch some video.

Sounds like you installed a version of VLC from unofficial sources.

Re:But I found VLC too slow for my liking lately..

[Anonymous Coward]

I like the MoboPlayer on Android. Combined with ES File Explorer File Manager makes it easy to play shared video clips over wifi.

That is a good thing

[JonySuede]

I happen to be a marginal freak that happen to like win8 on my laptop and HTPC. A native VLC version will be great for me.

However I would not installed it on my desktop because 1: I lack a license to do so and 2: I would have to buy start8.

Re:That is a good thing

[cbhacking]

... why would you need Start8? The Start screen is perfectly capable of launching desktop apps such as VLC. The goal of this Kickstarter is to break a Windows Store (using The Interface Formerly Known As Metro) version, including porting to Windows RT.

Re:That is a good thing

[JonySuede]

Well I do not like the start screen on my 2560x1440 monitor neither do I like it on the 1200x1920 one....

Wrong

[cbhacking]

That is incorrect. Nice FUD, though.

1. Admin Powershell prompt (easily available even on Windows RT).
2. Show-WindowsDeveloperLicenceRegistration (yes, this is a PS command. Try "show-wi" + [TAB])
3. Enter Windows Live credentials. They don't have to be the ones you sign in with (in fact, you don't have to be using Windows Live signin at all), and the don't have to be associated with a developer account in any way. In fact, they can be for a throw-away account.
4. Download an APPX package and run its install script. Congrats, sideloading achieved.

The status of the "developer registration" will need to be periodically refreshed, as by default it expires after a month. However, it costs nothing except a trivial amount of time, and you can refresh it repeatedly.

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

And people say Linux is complicated :P

Re:Wrong

[penix1]

Let's go back to the grandparent:

Is that something easy for the average user?

Now let's list those steps again:

1. Admin Powershell prompt (easily available even on Windows RT).
2. Show-WindowsDeveloperLicenceRegistration (yes, this is a PS command. Try "show-wi" + [TAB])
3. Enter Windows Live credentials. They don't have to be the ones you sign in with (in fact, you don't have to be using Windows Live signin at all), and the don't have to be associated with a developer account in any way. In fact, they can be for a throw-away account.
4. Download an APPX package and run its install script. Congrats, sideloading achieved.

The status of the "developer registration" will need to be periodically refreshed, as by default it expires after a month. However, it costs nothing except a trivial amount of time, and you can refresh it repeatedly.

Doesn't look to me like something the "average user" (read Joe Sixpack) can do to me.... Besides, I thought Microsoft hated the command line given their proclivity to denigrate its use in Linux.

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought Microsoft hated the command line given their proclivity to denigrate its use in Linux.

There you go trying to think again. Microsoft doesn't hate the command line, but FOSS faggots LOVE it. They have to, because sometimes there isn't any other choice. Typical example: try to launch a program via a shortcut using Gnome. What? It doesn't open. Why? You don't fucking know until you try to launch it manually from a console window to see the error message that should have been shown to you before, but wasn't because GOD DAMN LINUX TORCH SNIFFERS haven't figured out that it's 2012.

Re:Wrong

[Microlith]

He also fails to mention that the certificate can be revoked and lasts no more than 120 days. This isn't side loading, it's abusing a convoluted system by which you can use VS2012 to test and debug formerly-Metro software.

It's nowhere near like you can do on X86 using desktop applications, or even on Android with its checkbox. It's slightly less dickish than iOS with its mandatory $99 fee before you can so much as test on hardware.

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't EVER shit talk GNU/Linux again. You've been warned, shill.

Re:Wrong

[wvmarle]

As a Linux user who spends quite some time fiddling at the command prompt this still sounds pretty daunting. Especially the part of having to renew those credentials (which I assume requires doing some kind of online registration to create them?) every month sounds tedious and irritating.

Re:Wrong

[strikethree]

The status of the "developer registration" will need to be periodically refreshed, as by default it expires after a month. However, it costs nothing except a trivial amount of time, and you can refresh it repeatedly.

And all that is no big deal? It is equivalent to sideloading on android? Hm. No thanks.

Re:Wrong

[cbhacking]

It's a single command, which pops up a dialog box asking for your Microsoft Account (f.k.a. Windows Live ID) username and password. You don't have to do any kind of "online registration" except then you created the account, and most people will already have one (Hotmail account, Outlook.com account, Xbox Live account, etc. - all the same thing). Renewing is just typing the command again and providing the same password...

Re:Wrong

[cbhacking]

How is it a "big deal"? Yeah, it's (intentionally) not something people are going to stumble over by accident, but it takes about as much time as getting to the relevant setting in Android, assuming you aren't a ridiculously slow typist. The steps aren't hard to follow.

Re:Wrong

[cbhacking]

You mean the self-signed certificate that most apps will come with? That's auto-generated by Visual Studio. There's no way to revoke it (as I said, self-signed) and you don't have to use the automatic cert anyhow. Most Windows developers can figure out how to generate their own signing certs and use them, and the tools (makecert and signtool) come with VS.

Re:Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux? Isn't that the toy operating system that they use in small appliances like telephones and gameboys?

Re:Wrong

[gottabeme]

Uh...whoosh much?

Re:But I found VLC too slow for my liking lately..

[geminidomino]

You're not alone. I still use it on Windows for its wide video support, but even on simple audio files (mp3, mostly), it's become a real dog.

New model for software development?

[Kwyj1b0]

While I don't care much if VLC is ported, the idea of a community sponsored software development is interesting to me. I have often felt that software design decisions appear arbitrary for me (small time no-influence user). This gives people an actual insight into what are popular features, and a heads-up on future changes.

While many companies have feedback (submit suggestions) on their website, it seems like it is flushed down the tubes. I get a "Thank you for blah blah blah" and have no idea of what happened. The only token I had that my suggestion was heard was this one time where the company representative called me up with follow up questions and to discuss what could be done (again, I am a no-name client, not someone who pays millions for "privileged status").

I'd also like to see software with easy in-application access to feedback - the moment you think of something, you should be able to send off a report asking for the feature. And it should analyze the data and tell you if there is something similar to this request so you can upvote that instead. Basically, listen to your damn users and let them know that you are aware of their suggestions in a meaningful (not generic email) type of way.

How far we have come. Now we raise money and beg

[Anonymous Coward]

to be allowed an open app installation?

Jesus, I'm starting to get old. What the hell are you guys thinking? Were we, or were we not all talking about this exact scenario 10 years ago?

And "reaching the goal" is a good thing how?

Fuck these clowns. If we can't directly run OSS, the hardware whatever it is, is a piece of shit. Let it fail, and we move on.

but merto limited muilt tasking and lack of resiz

[Joe_Dragon]

but merto limited muilt tasking and lack of resizing sucks even more so on a big screen or muilt screen system.

But does it play wav files?

[WaffleMonster]

I will never understand what people at Microsoft are smoking... the latest and greatest flagship windows phone 8 platform won't even play wave files... a format Microsoft itself had a hand in creating and still widely used for lossless audio.

There is soo much missing in windows phone 8 existing in windows mobile since almost a decade ago ..really basic shit still does not exist in the platform. Bluetooth HID, serial bluetooth profiles, PAN, file transfer, VPNs and basic data synchronization all totally missing. Wireless authentication is totally fucked up the platform does not even attempt to validate WPA enterprise certificates.

Is it really that hard to dust off and just port this shit from crap you've already done years ago? I mean it is all windows and RT is just an abstraction on win32 so what the fuck is the problem? Why is it always ten steps back one step forward? Are your new programming pardigrams you spent all of this time and effort on rewriting your shit constantly really that bad??? Even the old windows CE APIs you exposed from what I remember circa 2002 were more or less poor analouges of win32 APIs and concepts even if the CE kernel was nothing allike.

Nobody cares about your endless schemes to take over the world and turn computing into a fricking walled garden. Neither is it acceptable in 20 fucking 12 to develop a platform that can only show one app on screen at a time. Get fucking real.

The EE's are giving us all of this cool shit and the OS vendors are running around with their fingers up their asses schemeing ever more impressive ways to fuck us over and piss us off.

If only MS actually cared about the well being of its customers.

I would rather starve than write software for walled in computing systems at the total mercy of the OS vendor. It is sad to see developers just going along with vendor bullshit.

Re:But I found VLC too slow for my liking lately..

[clarkn0va]

I think I tried MoboPlayer and a whack of others on Android, but finally settled on BSPlayer as the only one that will play DTS sound. As a bonus, BSP can access SMB shares directly, bypassing the need for ES.

It's just a UI

[DrYak]

Seems like it would take a whole lot more.

VLC is already modularized. Most of the functionality resides inside a library, and this library has already been ported to ARM CPUs too.

The only thing needed is "just" yet another UI. Next to the classic windows, Mac OS X Quartz, Linux GTK, Linux QT, textmode and a few other less known, they now need to add a metro interface.
It's basically just making new menu/button that work nicely on a metro tile, and connecting them to the already existing portable VLC engine.

That will actually require only a couple of week-ends worth of time.

The rest of the time budget will probably be spent getting everything working together nicely, and ironing out bugs (which *WILL* take a lot more time, specially given the complexity of VLC).

Re:It's just a UI

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the VLC project clarify in their kickstarter that it's NOT just another UI.

A major hurdle for us is to take VLC for Windows 8 and get it to run on ARM based Windows RT devices. This is because there is currently no stable toolchain available that supports all the features we need in order to cross-compile the libVLC library for Windows RT. While Microsoft provides its default development environment, it is not of much help to us at the lower libVLC level, which uses advanced features of the C language as well as custom, hand written assembly code. Both of these are incompatible with Visual Studio, so we will be required to adapt a mingw-w64 derivative for this purpose. This is feasible, since this is what we used for the past 10 years to provide VLC on Windows, but it will take time.

A major benefit of this subproject will be a working mingw-w64 environment for all the other projects with their roots in the UNIX/Linux world.

Now if we can a KickStarter to get the years...

[Anonymous Coward]

delayed VLC bug fix to allow the monitor to screen save when a video is paused that would be something.

It's how I've always been (no change)... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

I only tell it how it is. HOWEVER & Admittedly? Well...

Sometimes, I get a bit "unrefined" when dealing with trolls...

(Trolls, like Mike whom you pointed out, who is no longer with us here on /. ("Gee, I wonder why", lol, NOT))

That is only because they do NOT understand any differently & in order to facilitate communication? Well, "when in Rome, do as the romans do" (replace romans, with trolls).

* So, I merely speak to them in terms & language they DO understand, &, then 'beat the hell outta them' with documented concrete, verifiable & undeniable, facts... works, everytime.

APK

P.S.=> In any event - Thank you (I *think*)...

... apk

Re:But I found VLC too slow for my liking lately..

[Anonymous Coward]

PotPlayer on Windows and MX Player on Android. VLC is pretty much shit and the people who praise it are quite simply ignorant.

VLC for WinRT

[thejynxed]

Silly me, and here I thought they'd need that $65k or more just to pay the licensing fees for things like libdvdcss. And yes, I know it is not just that one and that there are other free codecs they also use. But to be legal in the USA or France for that matter, unless they pony up the license fees for the codecs (mainly to MPEG-LA).

Microsoft is not about to let a media "app" without the license fees paid for those particular codecs into its appstore.

As we all know anyhow, the VLC people kind of ignore some laws anyhow. Microsoft, however, can't get away with it (at least not with the EU watching for the slightest stumble).