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A Subscription-Based Movie Theater

When the local movie theater in Oakhurst, California went out of business, residents were stuck without a way to watch films on the big screen without driving for at least an hour beforehand. Now, three men are trying to resurrect the theater with one major change: instead of relying solely on ticket sales, their business model revolves around subscriptions. From the article: 'They ran models of Nelson's subscription-based theater idea, showing that to break even they would need 3,000 people, or 15% of the mountain communities, to sign up. For $19.95 per month, a member would be able to see each movie one time and buy individual tickets for friends. Non-members could buy a $16 day pass. While researching the theater business, Nelson learned that studios are transitioning to digital distribution. Thousands of independent theaters that couldn't afford equipment upgrades have closed over the last 10 years, according to industry experts. Hundreds of others — which, like the Met, still show print films — remain on the brink. The subscription business model could pay for the new equipment.'

308 comments

  1. Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    $20 monthly pass pays for itself after 2 movies.

    1. Re:Great Deal by Fluffeh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't know about you, perhaps I am an old fuddy duddy, but I can't imagine that 15% of residents would go for that. I personally go to cinemas barely once per year and a lot of the folks I know are similar. Okay, there is the day pass options, which would work, but if their business model relies on 15% as being the critical mass needed, it seems a bet with some rather long odds.

      And while $20 a month does pass for itself after two movies, are you really going to go to see that many movies? Are there even that many new movies coming out these days - let alone that many worth watching?

      Now, if the cinema was playing older movies or classics along with the new releases, that might start to get interesting.

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    2. Re:Great Deal by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Membership has its priviledges.

      I am sure there are a lot of ways they could add incentives in with the price of admission. There is still something nice about the act of going to the cinema. Watching shows at home tends to be a less formal thing and so you usually don't turn your phone off and other distractions tend to take precedence. At the movies, you are locking yourself away and dedicating yourself to the big screen experience.

      I might return to the theaters if I had a subscription of some sort. I think perhaps $20/monthly would not be a plan suitable for me, but perhaps a "discount membership" which would enable me to watch movies at a discount and perhaps excluding "opening night" movies would be a better plan for me.

    3. Re:Great Deal by lawpoop · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe you are the new-fangled type that prefers to watch media on their home entertainment system?

      I've found that certain movies are enjoyable on the big screen, and less so on the small. Does that mean they lack something? Probably -- but for me, it's about the experience of the film. If it needs to be seen on the big screen for me to properly get the full effect, so be it. If it makes a less stellar movie feel like it was worth it, then it was worth it.

      I don't go to the movies twice a month-- probably more 6-8 times a year-- but if I could go whenever for $19.95 a month, I might see almost every movie. If have have to shell out $10 for a movie, I have to think really hard if it will be worth it. If I've already shelled out the cash, it's a no-brainer.

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    4. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The subscribers might have a vote in what movies come to the theater... who knows? I go to the movies all the time and would surely take the deal. And looking at our local prices of $12.75 for a primetime movie on a weekend, the daypass does not seem that bad. Hey, they could always become members, right?

    5. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'll take my 65" HD screen with my $25k audio system in my dedicated home theater over going to the movie, ever. Sure -- the screen isn't 20 feet wide, but when you're sitting ten feet away from it, who cares? And it comes with the added benefit of watching shit when I want to, how I want to, and without hearing people eating popcorn, texting, chatting, or babies crying and children fidgeting in the theater.

    6. Re:Great Deal by Seumas · · Score: 1

      Holy shit Six to eight times a year? I haven't watched a movie in the theater since X-Files in 1998. I haven't even averaged six to age movies at *home* per year (new movies released around that year, that is). Every movie I've enjoyed, I feel I'd enjoy far less in a movie theater than at home. Granted, I have a pretty sweet dedicated home theater that I put a lot of work into and had specially constructed, but still . . .

      The value of a theater is especially diminished by the ever-lowering behavior of people who attend films, who have to be constantly texting or talking or browsing on their iphones and the ever-shrinking size of movie screens. I remember being a kid and it seemed like movie screens were the biggest thing on the planet. Either they changed or my perspective did, because as an adult, they seemed tiny as fuck. Sure, you could fit fifteen of them in a multiplex, but sitting 50 feet away from a 25 foot wide screen didn't really seem to do much more than sitting 8 feet from a 60" screen at home.

      I think theaters are going to quickly become a thing of the past. They're about on par with landlines, pay-phones, and news papers. If they rolled out a way for people to watch films the day they're released on their home theater for $10, it'd be huge.

    7. Re:Great Deal by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you underestimate how much the local community might be willing to back up local business, if it's clear that the choice is otherwise having none at all. Once you start losing social facilities like the cinema then young people start moving away and you turn into a dying community of old farts. I live in a considerably bigger city and never feel my presence is "make-or-break" for services, sure individual shops come and go but there'll always be another. Out near our cabin I notice an entirely different attitude in the permanent residents, they'd better use the local services because otherwise they'll go tits up and then they won't have any. With apologies to Niemöller:

      First the market forces came for the cinema, and I didn't care out since I didn't use the cinema.
      Then they came for the restaurant, and I didn't care since I didn't go to the restaurant.
      Then they came for the hospital, and I didn't care since I was healthy and didn't need it.
      Then they came for the grocery store, and I found everyone else had already left.

      --
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    8. Re:Great Deal by Zeussy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is a 104 years of theatre subscription, in your sound system alone!

    9. Re:Great Deal by lawpoop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Where are people going to see movies these days? Pleasure Island from Pinocchio? I've never seen or heard anyone texting, talking, or whatever on their phones. Granted, it's not a monastery, but it doesn't disturb me or ruin the movie for me. If you haven't been to the theater in 15 years, how do you know the behavior has gotten worse?

      --
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      -- Pablo Picasso
    10. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      my $25k audio system

      Wow, a fool and his money easily parted, indeed!

    11. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're just showing your age. Don't worry, I'm getting up there too. 90% of movies released in the theatre are for people under 40, often well under 40. They are for dates, college students and people with kids. Why do you think you don't care for new movies as much as you used too? They're not getting any worse, you're just moving out of their targeted demographics. Do you think back in the 50s that seniors went to drive-in movies?

    12. Re:Great Deal by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Now, if the cinema was playing older movies or classics along with the new releases, that might start to get interesting.

      I have often thought that a cinema with smaller rooms and a giant database of TV shows and movies that you could rent by the hour would work. Want to watch 20 hours of Buffy or Star Trek with friends? Groovy, get some comfy chairs, a big screen, and all the popcorn you can pay for. Soundproofing and a private screening means you can yak it up.

      But then, I suppose people would prefer their own home cinema in a lot of circumstances, and unsupervised people in dark rooms...

    13. Re:Great Deal by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Funny

      And half that cost was wooden knobs and monster cable.

    14. Re:Great Deal by Hans+Lehmann · · Score: 2

      It probably wouldn't work for cinemas in most cities because yes, people would just go down the street to another theater. In a one stop-light town like Oakhurst, however, it could make sense. The closest option for them to go to the movies is to drive all the way to Fresno, and face it, who wants to go to Fresno unless you absolutely have to. And as far as seeing more movies with this plan, think of it like the Netflixs business model. Our family subscribes to Netflixs, and we wind up watching many obscure movies that we would never see if we had to go out of our way to go to a theater that was screening them.

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    15. Re:Great Deal by NFN_NLN · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe you are the new-fangled type that prefers to watch media on their home entertainment system?

        I've found that certain movies are enjoyable on the big screen, and less so on the small.

      'White man make big fire... sit far away. Indian make small fire... sit close.'

      Sorry, I actually agree regarding the theater experience. But honestly, how often do you get to use the above quote in the actual context it was intended? :)

    16. Re:Great Deal by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Sounds a bit like how karaoke is done here, but then with movies instead of music.

      It may work - assuming there is a really good video system and a really large collection of video available - except for the licensing of content which most definitely will get in the way...

    17. Re:Great Deal by AaronMK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What stops you from turning off your phone at home?

    18. Re:Great Deal by Fluffeh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe you are the new-fangled type that prefers to watch media on their home entertainment system?

      Yes and No. Yes, I do watch quite a bit of media on the home entertainment system - but at the same time, for a select bunch of movies, I really do want to watch them on the big screen first. The problem is that there aren't many that fall into that bucket. The last lot I saw were The Lord of the Rings Trilogy and Avatar. Having said, I would be quite happy to maybe do a LOtR Trilogy one day, then see the hobbit the next day.

      Or you know what, how about Game of Thrones or BSG at the cinema? I do know quite a few folks that would probably LOVE to watch those as a weekly event. I guess what I was trying to say was why does a cinema have to show ONLY the newest movies (most of which I think are crap) - why not expand into a different niche?

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    19. Re:Great Deal by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 2

      I'd say you can't really comment on the theatre experience if you haven't been to one since 1998. For me, my experience doesn't reflect yours. The theatre is a great way to see movies.

    20. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the theater is a place like the Alamo Drafthouse, then it would definitely be used often, be it on a Friday for dinner or Saturday with a date.

    21. Re:Great Deal by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I believe there are a lot of people such as yourself, I highly doubt it is 15% of the population (I inserted the word population ITFS and used it to mean adult population).

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    22. Re:Great Deal by metrometro · · Score: 1

      Context matters. Having lived in a mountain town, we went to our 2-screen cinema all the time. I saw some truly unlikely movies, because there weren't that many other options to get out of the house in the evening. Now that I'm in a city, I see a movie maybe once a year.

    23. Re:Great Deal by Xeranar · · Score: 2

      Yeah, you are an oddity. You do not even come close to the average movie goer. 15% is about 1 in 7 which is easily done. Especially if you account for multiple subscriptions in a household. What you're really going for is somewhere around 10% of households which is a completely viable number.

    24. Re:Great Deal by Xeranar · · Score: 0

      Great, your a behavioral snob with an overwhelming sense of importance. You aren't the average and that's fine. People do avwrage in this country about a movie a month.

    25. Re:Great Deal by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Funny

      At $25k he is most certainly no fool.

      Indeed he is exactly the type of audio expert who could appreciate the $129-a-piece inter-component isolation sheets I'm selling. (white A4-sized, other sizes and colors available for an additional charge, excluding p+p).

      Contact me if you are interrested.

      I also have 3x3" partially adhesive yellow noise-covers for sale at a price of just $50 each, but these are only for the true audiophile.

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    26. Re:Great Deal by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      True.

      I think the cinema needs to make itself an important place for the community as well, outside of just showing the latest films, if it isn't already.

    27. Re:Great Deal by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      Since we're talking about a small town that's over an hour from the nearest theatre, we're not talking about the average person. The average person would never live in a town like that.

    28. Re:Great Deal by mumblestheclown · · Score: 1

      There are any number of excellent movies out regularly. I suggest you do a google search for whatever's on at the arts picturehouse, cambridge (my local). your "insigntful" comment is simply ignorance of the many excellent films being made if you bother wandering beyond the strip mall and your own preconceived notions

    29. Re:Great Deal by Canazza · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In the UK, one of the biggest cinema chains in the country - CineWorld - already do a subscription pass that lets you in to any film any number of times, while still using the old distribution model for normal customers.

      The problem is that, while yes, you can get in to see any film any time, you still have queue to get a ticket from the desk, and you *cannot* purchase on line ahead of time. Normal paying customers can, so for big blockbuster films on opening night (or opening week depending on how popular it is) it can be nigh on impossible to actually get in for a card holder without having to pay *anyway* just to book ahead.

      My mum runs a film group and about 60% of their members have this card, and they're pretty much always treated like second class citizens, with one cashier even outright stating that they don't really care about card holders because they don't bring in any money for them. That card holders tend to be more money savvy and as such won't buy the overprices drinks and popcorn from the stalls.

      Then, down the road, there's the smaller, more indie, cinema. Doesn't show as many blockbusters, quite a few indie films, focuses on the smaller, but popular films. Like Life of Pi, Mostly the focus on really good events. I went to see the original cut of Alien and Aliens in there, using the original reels. I missed it, but they also had James Earl Jones taking a Q&A once. They're showing Spirited Away later this month, and I think February is shaping up to be Studio Ghibli month.
      It has a really nice bar area (that you wouldn't mind visiting outside of watching a film), and they let you take alcohol into the showing (in plastic glasses), infact, all the smaller cinemas around here do that kind of thing. They don't have over-priced stalls, but they will offer you popcorn from behind the bar. And they're doing quite well.

      It's not the pricing model that's failing, it's knowing your core audience and catering for them. If your in a city you can pick and choose your core audience (as exampled above by a giant conglomorate cinema company co-existing 4 streets away from one of the oldest cinemas in the city), however if you're in a small town, or the middle of nowhere, if your core audience doesn't want to go see films, no alternate pricing models are going to fix that. What you need to do is remind them there's a cinema there. Throw some events. Find out what films your patrons want to see and put those films on, even if they're 20 or 30 years old, hell, even if it's from before there was sound, if they want to see it, get a hold of it and put it on.

      There seems to be this crazy notion that people only go to the cinema to see new films.

      Bullshit. People go to see films in the cinema because watching films in the cinema is fun.

      Also, Sing-along Grease night

      --
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    30. Re:Great Deal by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Probably some sort of psychological motivation, kinda-sorta "guilt"? I'm just watching a movie and auntie couldn't call me, what a horrible person am I? But at the cinema, I HAVE TO turn it off, sorry auntie.

      --
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    31. Re:Great Deal by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      The thing here is that you're not just paying for going to the cinema, you're paying for the option of going to the cinema.

      Sure, maybe you only go to the cinema once per year (that's probably on the high end for me personally). But look at it the other way. Suppose I offered you the price of a ticket in cash - in return, you would be unable to watch any films for the next year, no matter how much you wanted. Would you take me up on that offer? I wouldn't think that was a good deal.

      This is really the alternative you get, since if you're not interested, it's quite likely that there will be no cinema to go to.

      The business world has long recognized that having options can be valuable in itself, even if the options are not exercised. When regular people start getting their eyes opened for it, schemes like this (and kickstarter, which is more related than you might think) are going to have a field day.

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    32. Re:Great Deal by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      Only 8% of Americans live in cities larger than 1 million inhabitants. Larger parts of your nation live in smaller cities than you might expect.

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    33. Re:Great Deal by Jaruzel · · Score: 2

      It doesn't cost 25k to build a relatively good personal cinema, you can do it for less than 5k and still have a better experience than most local mutiplexes. Since building my cinema (2.8m screen, HD projector, top end amp, loads of speakers) I've found that I much prefer watching movies at home. In fact as the sound is optimised for where I sit. the audio experience is vastly superior.

      Gatting back on topic - I wonder how scalable this subscription model is? surely if there's only says 400 seats, and i'm the 401th subscriber, I'd really pissed off if I couldn't get a set for a first night showing of a new blockbauster - how are they intending to manage that? If the demand was high then I guess a waiting list of sorts like a members only type club - but then people would be expecting a bit more than just access to the movie (proper bar area, food etc.).

      -Jar

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    34. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They've already reached their target. Want some cream to go with your humble-pie?

    35. Re:Great Deal by carcomp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I live in an area such as this.. Indiana. It has many small farm towns where if lucky, there is a gas station and perhaps a restaurant / bar. The town I live in is large enough to support a Walmart, however the theater (built circa 1995) is lacking. Housing 2 "large" screens and 6 smaller ones. I don't know the specific sizes but i think the smaller screens have 4 or 5 seats on each side with one aisle down the middle) The larger 2 screens still do not compare to the newer theaters in Indianapolis which seem HUGE, and aren't even IMAX. The change to digital 3d has forced prices for tickets and coke sky high, but the experience is lacking b/c I can drive for 1 hour and pay the same price and watch in a comfy chair with better sound and video quality. If there is a way that subscription model pricing can be viable, sign me up. I've dropped cable, switched to netflix / vudu / dvds throughout my house, and have cut back in other areas as well. My family and I love going to the movies, but I can't seem to justify the $30 night out at the local theater because I know the options an hour away are so much nicer.

    36. Re:Great Deal by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 1

      Now, if the cinema was playing older movies or classics along with the new releases, that might start to get interesting.

      Does a remake, reboot, or sequel to a classic movie count? Because that's pretty much all they do these days.

      --
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    37. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People go to see films in the cinema because watching films in the cinema is fun.

      Which must be why less people go each year all around the world, and the huge revenue increases are down to many ticket prices being doubled for 3D wankfests.

      The reality is people would rather, and do, spend a few grand on a big HDTV, amp/receiver, blu-ray player (plus content), with surround sound and a large sub, than would go to a local theatre that has infinitely superior facilities. I personally enjoy a good flick on a huge screen in a building dedicated for it, but having to share it with a few hundred others that can't control themselves, can't stop munching, slurping, opening exceedingly loud sweet wrappers, coughing, SMSing all accompanied by the stench of popcorn drenched in 5 billion gallons of melted butter, pretty much puts me off the whole fun aspect. It actually gets worse on midnight viewings where semi-drunk families come in and bring babies with them. Staff don't care or are too scared to eject them, and management can never be found. Complaining merely gets you a complementary ticket to try again.

    38. Re:Great Deal by N!k0N · · Score: 1

      I would assume it's kinda the same way of a non-subscription multiplex. If you're the 401st person for a 400-seat theater, you're not seeing the 00:00 show; so you may be relegated to the 12:05 or 12:10 show (i.e. whatever the next showing for "midnight" is at the theater). If there's only one theater, then they may do something like what the local playhouses do with season tickets, in that you're getting the "Nth Day" showing (e.g. "First Saturday" or "Second Wednesday")

    39. Re:Great Deal by jittles · · Score: 1

      Oakhurst is a pretty small community, yes. But it's also the last town on the way into Yosemite from Highway 41. I had a huge crush on a girl from Oakhurst when I was in college, and used to go up there all the time. There's also surrounding communities such as Bass Lake, which are even further from the nearest theater than Oakhurst. It's a small enough community where most people know each other, and all the locals I met were definitely into small businesses and restaurants. As long as they get new movies, I bet they will have plenty of customers. During the busy season, they'll likely get some teenage kids trying to escape the majestic beauty of Yosemite with their parents.

    40. Re:Great Deal by N!k0N · · Score: 1

      Where are people going to see movies these days? Pleasure Island from Pinocchio? I've never seen or heard anyone texting, talking, or whatever on their phones. Granted, it's not a monastery, but it doesn't disturb me or ruin the movie for me.

      If you haven't been to the theater in 15 years, how do you know the behavior has gotten worse?

      Congratulations on not going to the cinema with black people.

      Or teenagers in general. The good thing with the local multiplex is "if you're on your phone and we see it (or someone comes and complains), we're kicking you out, no refund either". No 'chances' for people, just an escort to the nearest exit.

    41. Re:Great Deal by drb_chimaera · · Score: 1

      You're slightly out of date here - as of late last year you can now pre-book online with Unlimited cards and then use the card machines in the foyer to collect them.

      My wife and I have been Unlimited members for ages now and we find it's really handy, particularly as I work right next to the local Cineworld cinema, a 20-screen monster including an IMAX screen (not *true* IMAX but the IMAX Digital system which, while not as good, is certainly good enough to make it no longer worth the long drive to the nearest true IMAX theatre which is a couple of cities away). Unfortunately the IMAX screen isn't free with the Unlimited card but you do get a hefty discount.

      There are a few value-adds to the subscription that are quite nice too - for example there are semi-regular preview shows that are open to cardholders only and a number of money-off deals for food both at the cinema and local restaurants.

    42. Re:Great Deal by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      I think you need to change your scale a bit - even in my town of "only" 100,000 where I grew up there were three theaters, plus at least one in all of the neighboring cities and townships - expanding that out to an hour's radius, there were several dozen in that range.

      A more reasonable target city size would be 30,000-50,000, if not smaller. And I suspect that we'd get half or more of the population living in cities that size (though I admit I don't know where to go get the data or I'd check myself).

      --
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    43. Re:Great Deal by N!k0N · · Score: 1

      Then, down the road, there's the smaller, more indie, cinema. Doesn't show as many blockbusters, quite a few indie films, focuses on the smaller, but popular films. Like Life of Pi, Mostly the focus on really good events. I went to see the original cut of Alien and Aliens in there, using the original reels. I missed it, but they also had James Earl Jones taking a Q&A once. They're showing Spirited Away later this month, and I think February is shaping up to be Studio Ghibli month.

      Very much this -- we've got a small theater/chain in the area, and they show indie stuff and "classics" all the time (each theater shows a classic on the weekends) for $5/ticket, and only 1-night showing* timed to the season (e.g. horror movies in October, "classic big summer blockbuster" all summer, etc). Rocky Horror Picture Show is one of the big ones; and is shown pretty often (monthly, or every other month).
      * well, excepting the original Jurassic Park, where they had to keep it for a week or more because there was that much demand.

    44. Re:Great Deal by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Well if you are paying a monthly rate, chances are you will be seeing more movies.
      At least for me. A lot of movies come out and I go, it sounds interesting, however I will wait for it to come out on DVD to watch it. Just because to Rent a DVD cost $3.00 vs. $15.00. If I am paying monthly then chances are I will go more often to maximize my value.

      So instead saving my money and only going to the theater for the big blockbuster Special Effects that you need the Large Screen and mega Speakers to really get the full effect. I can actually go and watch movies with plots and quality acting, vs. waiting for them to be on DVD. And if you see a Bad Movie you won't feel so bad about it because it isn't like you spent money that couldn't be substituted for another show. If the movie sucks the next week go to a different one.

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    45. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you for fucking real? There's no racial boundary here: people of all color, especially young people who perceive the bbm as their second line of sight, use their phones in the cinema. Racist moron.

    46. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I drive a Chevrolet movie theater you insensitive clod.

    47. Re:Great Deal by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      People need to drop that guilt ASAP. Unless you are a carer, or paid to be on call for work, or similar, you don't owe it to anyone to be available at the end of a mobile phone 24/7.

    48. Re:Great Deal by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      You're right. Any startup business plan that depends on 15% sign up is doomed.

    49. Re:Great Deal by alexander_686 · · Score: 1

      I would like to see a citation for that – it feels wrong – it feels like they are counting wrong – maybe they are counting political units. For example, Minneapolis-St. Paul as individual cities each have less hen 400 but the metro region has over 3m. So for our purposes it should be counted as 1 city – not 2. IIRC over 50% of American’s live in urban (counting suburbs) areas.

    50. Re:Great Deal by cduffy · · Score: 1

      Or you can do as I do, and patronize cinemas who kick talkers/texters out without refund.

    51. Re:Great Deal by djl4570 · · Score: 1

      Don't most movie theaters pay film rental plus a percentage of the gross? I want to know how they will work out how much of the subscription money to send to Hollywood. I like the idea of classics and/or foreign films but I doubt that Oakhurst is big enough to support such a theater.

      OT: Oakhurst is a nice town on the junction of Highway 49 and Highway 41. Some years ago I found the coolest Round Table Pizza I've ever been too. Guinness Stout on tap along with a dozen other beers. The only pizza place I've seen with a comparable selection is the Moose's Tooth in Anchorage.

    52. Re:Great Deal by madhi19 · · Score: 1

      I like the day pass idea better business wise. You are more likely to buy food and drinks inside a movie theatre if you're watching more than one movie.

    53. Re:Great Deal by madhi19 · · Score: 1

      What I don't get is how come every multiplex is build on the same model? Nobody never take one or two screen and dedicate it to old classic I bet they leave a lot of money on the table by only pumping new stuff.

    54. Re:Great Deal by madhi19 · · Score: 1

      When you think about it the multiplex is the only medium build that way. Cable and Sat got classic channel for classic TV and Movie, Libraries and Amazon got classic section with great author highlighted. Radio whatever it in FM/AM or streaming got classic channel for every genre of music you could think off. The Multiplex is the only medium dedicated to pumping new content all the time the faster they can milk a movie the better.

    55. Re:Great Deal by madhi19 · · Score: 1

      The day pass is a great deal how many movie would I really want to pay $16 for? Not that many but I pay $16 to spend a whole day at the theatre once in a while maybe watch the same movie twice or take a chance for your second or third movie on something you're not sure you like but are curious. It change the whole experience from one of quick consumption to one of exploration.

    56. Re:Great Deal by madhi19 · · Score: 1

      That because the multiplex is not fun if you're not a 12 years old. It not really a cinema the way it was.

    57. Re:Great Deal by Sqr(twg) · · Score: 1

      It doesn't cost 25k to build a relatively good personal cinema, you can do it for less than 5k

      That's less than 21 years of subscription. A no-brainer, really.

    58. Re:Great Deal by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      I would dare say it could re-energize the movie theater industry, though. I used to go to the movies at least twice a month. Now I go a couple times a year, but if I could go see whatever movie is playing without paying $10 per movie (for matinee) then I'd go a lot more often. That means more popcorn, more sodas, etc etc. I see this as a great way for struggling theaters to keep up and, at least until the distributors start jacking up the prices for the theaters, a win win for consumers and theater owners.

      With a subscription service and "day pass" or individual ticket sales, you don't lose any existing customers and you may gain back some portion of the customer base that has been lost over the last 10 years or so.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    59. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about you, perhaps I am an old fuddy duddy, but I can't imagine that 15% of residents would go for that. I personally go to cinemas barely once per year and a lot of the folks I know are similar. Okay, there is the day pass options, which would work, but if their business model relies on 15% as being the critical mass needed, it seems a bet with some rather long odds.

      And while $20 a month does pass for itself after two movies, are you really going to go to see that many movies? Are there even that many new movies coming out these days - let alone that many worth watching?

      Now, if the cinema was playing older movies or classics along with the new releases, that might start to get interesting.

      I am a resident of Oakhurst. I can tell you one trip to the movies in Fresno (45 Min down a mountain at night) cost more than one membership. It will cost you $10-$15 in gas to drive to Fresno & back. $10 for a non-3D movie. Since you are just under 1 hour away from town you typically go out to eat which is another $7-$15. This is figuring you are by yourself (and you are usually not) now do the math on a family of four.

      The Met's old ownership had $2 buckets of popcorn if you brought in your own bucket purchased from the Met. Plus drinks were just as affordable.

      The math makes sense, the mindshare has to change. It is a marketing & waiting game. None of us want to see the Met go, so the conditions are right for perceptions to change.

    60. Re:Great Deal by ryanmc1 · · Score: 1

      I was at the theater just this last weekend and some idiot walks in 10 minutes late with a flashlight and starts shining it around to find seats. Then they (he and his kids) find seats at the very front, and about every 5 minutes or so one of the kids turns on the flashlight. I wanted to pull out my hair. I should have complained, but because it was a kids show at the dollar theater I gave them some leeway.

    61. Re:Great Deal by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, perhaps I am an old fuddy duddy, but I can't imagine that 15% of residents would go for that.

      I can. Remember this isn't one of many options, it is the only option. I'd be willing to shell out $20 a month to keep the only theatre in town open, even if I skipped some months. Id hope they would show a diverse set of movies.

    62. Re:Great Deal by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --If $20/month included popcorn (but not necessarily soda, I wouldn't mind paying REASONABLE rates for that) I would do it in a heartbeat. I've been going to the movies much less than I did a few years ago, because they're charging New York rates in Kansas City ($9 for the movie, $12.50 for a popcorn and soda?!)

      --When I can buy a FULL MEAL at Subway for less than a trip to the movie theater's snack counter, Netflix gets most of my $$. Movie theaters are pricing *themselves* out of business.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    63. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you could go two hours without cramming shit into your foodhole you would also solve your problem.

    64. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They do it all the time. My local Rave theater located in a mall shows "Silver Screen Classics" every Tuesday.

    65. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a misleading statistic. How many American live an hour or less from one in the suburbs?

    66. Re:Great Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does a remake, reboot, or sequel to a classic movie count? Because that's pretty much all they do these days.

      I remember people making this complaint thirty years ago. They were wrong too.

    67. Re:Great Deal by justthinkit · · Score: 1

      The pause button.

      --
      I come here for the love
    68. Re:Great Deal by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      The major difference is that he can watch what he wants instead of relying on what the cinema is showing, whenever he want to. It's no really a matter of cost, but of luxury.
      It also includes being able to pause, or watch a movie naked, two thing you cant (usually) do at the cinema.

    69. Re:Great Deal by nobaloney · · Score: 1

      Movie theaters are pricing *themselves* out of business.

      Running a movie theater is a lot more expensive than you think. Pricing is determined mostly by the studios, who also get close to all of the admission price.

      The concession sales are the only real source of gross income for the theater after the rental to the studio is paid. And out of that income comes the building rent, the utilities (air-conditioning a movie theater is not cheap), the staff (always a high and repeating expense, hence less people all the time), the insurance (also not cheap), the miscellaneous, and nowadays, the almost required conversion to digital projection.

      That said, I live walking distance from a six-plex, and yet I hardly ever go. I bought a 65" Mitsubishi projection system (3D included but I haven't bothered buying glasses) and a Panasonic sound system that puts out all the quality I can hear (and feel) about 18 months ago, and I just bought two power recliners; for a geek it's the start of a home theater.

      You pay your money and you take your choice. As I did.

    70. Re:Great Deal by volmtech · · Score: 1

      White man build big fire, keep warm hauling wood, Indian build small fire, sit close, keep warm. Fixed that for ya.

  2. It is perfectly feasible... by godrik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    UGC (the AMC theatres in France) used to (maybe still have) memberships that allowed you to see evey movie they show as many times as you want for 15euros. Lots of people were subscribing to it. I am sure they can manage it. Thought the $16 day pass for non subscriber seems over the top. I hope they also have regular $8/10 ticket for one movie. (most people wont see two movies in one day)

    1. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's worth mentioning that the summary proposes the subscription model to justify theater upgrades:

      " Thousands of independent theaters that couldn't afford equipment upgrades have closed over the last 10 years, according to industry experts. Hundreds of others — which, like the Met, still show print films — remain on the brink. The subscription business model could pay for the new equipment. "

      Keep in mind that there are plenty of independent movie theaters which play older/obscure/foreign movies, and having character and not being newfangled everything is part of the experience. San Diego's Ken Cinema, being a good example. Before the movie starts they throw out huge balloons everybody swats around, there are no annoying ushers to see if you're sneaking in the drink, and they play movies you wouldn't find at an AMC, like Pink Flamingos*. The only downside of that theater being that it's in a neighborhood infested with grown up hipster-sissies. Still, those are the theaters which deserve my money. If I wanted to see predictable, stale crap like Transformers 5 or X-men 10 I'd reach for the torrent.

      * Whoa, man. What a fucked up movie. A lot of it's chatty gay humor, but where else are you gonna see the main character (a man in drag) suck her son's cock, a man fucking two (real) dead chickens, and a finale of eating dog shit.

      -- Ethanol-fueled

    2. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm surprised that theaters don't coordinate more meetup groups or something, and sponsor showings of rare and obscure films. Make it a severely reduced ticket price, make the showing a limited (or one time) thing and make up everything in concessions or the like.

      I remember in middle school that the school actually took a trip to a local theater to see some disney movie. But I've never seen such groups in my theaters in all these years.

      Or maybe it's the theaters in my area that just have very little outreach.

    3. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      I don't know about other theater chains but Cinemark actually rents out there theaters for all kind of events

      "Host your corporate meeting or private event at Cinemark Theatres nationwide. Deliver your presentation on the big screen in a comfortable Cinemark auditorium.

      Lights. Camera. Business. Cinemark Theatres offers an exciting alternative for:

      company meetings
      private movie screenings
      employee reward & recognition
      lead generation events
      brand and product launches
      client appreciation
      education and training
      award ceremonies
      holiday outing"

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    4. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by cmseagle · · Score: 2

      I hope they also have regular $8/10 ticket for one movie. (most people wont see two movies in one day)

      Seeing as how the previous iteration of the business went under following that model, I don't think it's likely that they'll be attempting it. I think that if the customers know that they can go to the movies for $8/10 like they're used to, the theater will be hard pressed to hit that 3,000 member mark.

    5. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by fermion · · Score: 3, Informative
      This is club model. For a fixed fee you get to use the services of the club. Some will use the services a lot, some not so much. But because dues are collected monthly, fixed costs are piad.

      In the US, it is my understanding that most of the box office goes to the movie distributor. So if someone sees a opening weekend movie every weekend, I assume that would be the whole $20 to the studio, or even more. The article did say they would be paying studio based on viewership, and I have been told that studios do take most of the ticket sales for the the first weekend, So this model clearly depends on people not going to see very many movies. Yet is subscribers are nor going to movies, then one wonders if they will be subscribers

      Movie theaters are just restaurants that show movies. Sundance and Alamo has made that a formal setup. Theaters near formal restaurants have to fight to stay alive. If you want your theater to stay open, buy concessions. Yes it does suck to think the true cost of a movie is $25 per person, but that is what it costs. If it is too expensive, go to the Opera, where a ticket can often be $15, and there is no expectation to buy or consume refreshments.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    6. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by TubeSteak · · Score: 2

      Keep in mind that there are plenty of independent movie theaters which play older/obscure/foreign movies,

      As the movie making industry transitions away from film, they're going to start shutting down the industrial bases that makes and develops film.

      This is a HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM because the color correction notes for every film are based on the specific film stock being used and the specific blend of chemicals used by the development house.

      There's a lot of work that goes into every reel of film and everyone involved in the business is either retiring or headed for other work.
      Such is the digital wave.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    7. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      As the movie making industry transitions away from film, they're going to start shutting down the industrial bases that makes and develops film. This is a HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM

      I thought it was called "progress." Are you saying it's a problem because if an old film needs a new transfer, it won't/can't be done in exactly the same way?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    8. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      There was also a lot of work that went into details of horse carriages. Everyone involved in the business either retired of was headed for other work.

      Nostalgia is fine but progress goes on.

    9. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not "used to", but "still do". For €20/month, the two main movie distributors UGC/MK2 and Gaumont-Pathé offer an all-you-can-see pass. Considering that a single ticket is about €10, you only have to see more than two movies a month to make it worthwhile.

      www.salles-cinema.com/les-cartes-d-abonnement-au-cinema

    10. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $16 for a day pass at the movies seems over the top? Last movie I saw cost me 25.50 USD in local currency.

    11. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I can live with just BluRay thanks, for me there is no additional attraction going to the cinema. No volume control, no pause, other annoying people eating and talking, unskippable ads... and you can only watch it once.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      ...but where else are you gonna see...

      Nowhere, I hope. I've clicked on enough disguised links in my time to know how to avoid that sort of thing now, thankyouverymuch.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    13. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They still have it. I have a UGC Illimité card and make enough use of it to make it worthwhile. Only issue is where I live in France (not Paris) there is almost nothing but VF (french version), so I have to watch the dubbed versions unless a film comes to the one small local cinema that shows VO (Original Version).

    14. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by MotorMachineMercenar · · Score: 1

      Pathe theaters does this in the Netherlands. For 20 EUR a month you get unlimited viewings (you pay extra extra for 3D and IMAX). Break-even point is two movies a month. It's great for someone like me who watches 3-5 movies a week, at least one of them in the theaters. I see good movies multiple times in the theaters.

      It's apparently pretty popular service since they started around three years ago: they've expanded it with a 2nd tier membership to include 3D and IMAX, and keep advertising it more.

      --
      "We have an A-Bomb...what more do you want, mermaids?" --I.I. Rabi, speaking in defense of Robert Oppenheimer
    15. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by Jeng · · Score: 1

      There are theaters that do just that.

      Here in Austin, TX the Alamo Drafthouse chain of theaters shows lots of rare and obscure films, and they will often pair the movie with appropriate food and drink.

      www.drafthouse.com

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    16. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this matters why? The places that show films never do 'colour correction'- they just bang the film in the projector. 'Colour correction' is a concept used in post-production, when the footage shot by the director is optically modified for desired visual effect.

      Modern 'colour correction' is simple a set of numbers in a computer program. A digital camera that captures an image with high-precision per pixel (IE a shot that is not 3D, not high frame rate, and not very darkly lit) allows post processing software to replicate any film stock ever manufactured.

      The "film will always be best" idiots are like the "vinyl records music better" idiots. Early digital solutions are frequently crummy, inadequate, and inferior to the very best analogue solutions of the same period. However, digital always progresses in leaps and bounds, until it surpasses even the most expensive analogue solutions, with low-cost consumer grade equipment. Worse, mature digital solutions willnot just replicate the qualities of any previous analogue solution, they allow for processing alternatives that would have been impossible for analogue.

      We are already getting digitally shot feature films that include sequences perfectly replicating all kinds of visuals associated with old film stock. The only current issue with digital cameras is their poor low level light response, exaggerated greatly when the shot requires 3D and/or high frame rate. This issue is mitigated by people who learn how to light a set properly for the digital cameras.

    17. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      I don't know about other theater chains but Cinemark actually rents out there theaters for all kind of events

      Most theatres actually do - at least the smarter ones who realize they have a huge gathering room suitable for 100+ people and a speaker in front with acoustics that are fairly decent and a huge ass projector suitable for showing things to the entire crowd (that's bright - so no squinting at dim over-extended project

      You know it because they refer to the theatre as an "auditorium" rather than just a theatre. There's even a little stage and such too for a speaker to use. On the bigger ones, it's big enough for a small play.

      For all-company meetings, it's far more economical to rent the theatre than to have to build an equivalent that does exactly that. Plus the larger ones often have private catered food services available.

    18. Re:It is perfectly feasible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So start a wiki database. Record every film, every production iteration, identification tips and the color correction notes for that variant of that film. It's not that much storage really. You'll probably even be able to find someone else who cares more than you do to chase up the old technicians and get them to contribute their knowledge once you get going.

  3. too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the problem is that 20$ a month is way more than the usual person pays for movies. there might be one good movie every 3 months, and that costs 8-12 dollars depending on where you are. if there were more good movies coming out each month then it might be worth it, until then, theres netflix

    1. Re:too expensive by godrik · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When you have a free "movie ticket for everything" you start going to see stuff you would not have seen otherwise. $20 a month is not a bad deal. I'd totaly take that.

    2. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is always a movie that's worth it to kill a few hours with friends or a fuck buddy with

    3. Re:too expensive by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

      Sounds like it would work for younger people then. The success of this model would depend on the age distribution in the target population.

    4. Re:too expensive by Jartan · · Score: 1

      They'd have to give a discount on food as well. At least in the US popcorn and a drink run you as much as the ticket.

    5. Re:too expensive by simplexion · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't kill your fuck buddy, they are very useful.

    6. Re:too expensive by steveha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a way to have a movie theater in their town without driving an hour. You need to factor that into your estimations.

      If I lived an hour away from any other movie theater, I would pay $20/month to keep my local theater alive. Sometimes it's fun to see a movie on the big screen, with your friends.

      If that experience isn't something you care about, there's Netflix.

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    7. Re:too expensive by adolf · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They'd have to give a discount on food as well. At least in the US popcorn and a drink run you as much as the ticket.

      "Have to"? Why? Because you'd shrivel up and die if you don't have a dose of artificially-flavored popcorn with artificially-sweetened fizzy water within a 2-hour window?

    8. Re:too expensive by Sylak · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's where most of the theatres actually make their money on first-week releases, though, because of how much goes to the studio in ticket revenue.

    9. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself. While a quarter of the movies are so-so $20 isn't so much. I spend $20 minimum each time I got to the movies. I probably see a movie a week. This includes movie & pop corn. Now I don't waste my money on Netflix, DRM'd Cable TV, or other similar services. If you see four shows a month that is just $5 a ticket. Maybe half the price of a typical theater. Even if you see only two shows that is still about the price of a typical ticket. They should charge $12 to non-members to encourage people to get memberships. Even those who aren't members are going to use this theater because it is closer. A lot of older people hate driving to far away theaters. Even if they will do it they'd pay extra to see a movie locally. Plus the gas saved totally makes up for the slight premium anyway (at $12 a ticket).

      I had another good idea (stolen) from a theater around here. They turned it into a dinner & show theater. So you can order dinner too. Instead of spending $10 on popcorn and soda people spend $20 on dinner plus $10 for a show. You don't have to do the dinner. You can still get the popcorn + soda or just a ticket if your not hungry. The point of this though is to give people something to spend more money on. And people do!

    10. Re:too expensive by chronokitsune3233 · · Score: 1

      Discount on the food? You're kidding me, right? There's absolutely no reason why that should be a part of the deal. You subscribe, paying each month to renew your subscription, to see any movie at any time you want (when the theater is open). Anything else like food, candy, etc. is gonna cost you more. Of course, certain things are free, such as 3D glasses to watch 3D films and refills on certain sizes of popcorn and specific sizes and kinds of beverage-type items (not fountain sodas).

      --
      I have been a captive in America my entire life. Everybody and everything uses customary units instead of metric.
    11. Re:too expensive by Aeros · · Score: 1

      Well that depends. Are they playing never movies? Also some people, like teenagers especially, will go to the movies more often. I myself havent been to a movie theatre in over a year. There will be some people that like to go on regular occasion and others that don't go that often. It'll be interesting to see what the stats turn out to be on this idea. I do wish them luck though.

    12. Re:too expensive by jamesh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They'd have to give a discount on food as well. At least in the US popcorn and a drink run you as much as the ticket.

      We hardly ever buy movie food, we just bring our own. The local (Australia) cinema won't let you bring a backpack or other large bag in (tripping hazard) but they haven't batted an eyelid when we've put the backpack in their lockers and taken in our own popcorn etc. Three of my kids and my wife can't have gluten so buying the food there isn't really an option - too much risk of contamination (who knows what they put in that 'butter'!).

      I prefer not to have food at all in the cinema, but when you have young kids it's a great way to keep them still while they get interested in the movie.

    13. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. We'd realize that our source of contentment was the artificial flavors and not the godawful movie we're watching.

    14. Re:too expensive by jonwil · · Score: 1

      I for one regularly visit my local Hoyts to go to the movies and bring in a normal shopping bag filled with junk food bought from the nearby Coles or Woolies and they haven't stopped me.

      I even went to see the third Lord of the Rings film when I was in Brisbane and had a large suitcase with me and they didn't care when I brought said suitcase into the theater.

    15. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I spend $8/mo on Netflix and get way more out of that than the few decent movies I could watch in the theater with far less fucking hassle. And no added expenses, either (parking, gas, food, hours of my time basically wasting a whole evening on the event).

    16. Re:too expensive by arth1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      That experience has become less and less.
      As the size of the silver screen has gone down, the size and resolution of TV sets have gone up.

      When I was young, I loved to go to the movie theatre. The screen was a hefty 10x22 meters, or a little over 79' diagonal.
      At home we had a 20" TV - we couldn't afford the new huge 26" ones that had just came out.

      Nowadays, a typical movie theatre has a screen only a fraction of that size, while the standard TV size this holiday was 55".
      Your field of view is going to be filled about as much by your TV at home as the movie screen. And you probably have a better sound system than the utter miscalibrated crap they foist on people these days.
      Never mind that you and your friends can imbibe whatever you like. No crying children or idiots who left their cell phone on.

      Back in the old days, you also bought numbered seats, and knew that you and your friends would be able to sit together. Now, you have to gamble on that. Whoever runs fastest gets the best seats.

      The death of movie theatre going started for me back when LaserDiscs came out, and has continued as movies have become crappier and TVs better. I probably wouldn't go often even if it was free.
      Heck, a BD movie on my laptop gives me a more immersive experience.

      Let the movie theatres die. They had their time, which was great, but that time is over. Keep a few as living museums in the big cities, and let the rest go.
      I'll fondly remember them, but don't need them back any more than I need photo booths and telegrams.

    17. Re:too expensive by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      I once tried to take in a container of chocolate covered raisins and a small thing of popcorn into my local theater only for them to tell me that I couldn't because any food brought in might "bother" the other guests. Never mind that the theater sells the exact things at the concession stand.

    18. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't eat in the cinema but Cineworld (UK+Ireland) give a 10% discount on food and drinks to their monthly members. 25% once you are a member for a year.
      €20 a month for as much cinema as you want (slight lie when it comes to 3d and imax screenings). Some day I much check if the discount applies to the bar.

    19. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'd have to give a discount on food as well. At least in the US popcorn and a drink run you as much as the ticket.

      I never understood the obsession with drinking a soda at the movie theater. The soda is gone before the opening credits are done, and if the movie is 100 minutes long, I'll need to relieve myself sometime during the movie.

      Instead, I'd rather just watch the movie and save the refreshments until afterward.

    20. Re:too expensive by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      They'd have to give a discount on food as well. At least in the US popcorn and a drink run you as much as the ticket.

      I used to go the cinema a few times a month, never once bought any snacks or drinks there. I might take in a water bottle in my bag in hot weather. If it's the evening, I might be going to eat out after and don't want to be full of junk food. If you can't enjoy just watching the film, it isn't worth seeing at all.

    21. Re:too expensive by Pollardito · · Score: 2
      They don't need "the usual person", they need the 15% who watch the most movies:

      They ran models of Nelson's subscription-based theater idea, showing that to break even they would need 3,000 people, or 15% of the mountain communities, to sign up

      For them this is a good deal and saves them a lot of driving. For other people $16 for a day pass is also a good deal

    22. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That experience has become less and less.

      Back in the old days, you also bought numbered seats, and knew that you and your friends would be able to sit together.

      Whoa, you don't have numbered seats anymore? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go to movies at all if I couldn't pre-order, select seats, and pre-pay for my tickets before showing up at the theater after the commercials, during the trailers, just in time to see the movie I paid for.

    23. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's true. I subscribe to MoviePass right now (24.99$ in my area, pricing is variable based on location it seems) , where I can see a movie once a day, each movie only once. The big difference is it isn't tied to one theater -any theater that accepts discover card is fine. I end up seeing basically everything I would usually wait for DVD for. I would have seen 1-2 movies a month before, I saw 13 the first month I was subscribed and 9 the second. Since I am not paying (on that day) for the movie I tend to buy concessions, which I normally wouldn't do because of the cost.

    24. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bladder like a walnut.

    25. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Let the movie theatres die"

      You do realize that theatres are a highly profitable and multi billion dollar business right?

    26. Re:too expensive by bananaquackmoo · · Score: 1

      I'd never even heard of numbered seats except in airplanes. The concept is foreign to me.

    27. Re:too expensive by drb_chimaera · · Score: 1

      The 3D becomes inclusive once you've been a member for a year as well, but you still have to pay the IMAX upgrade cost (about £4.50 I think).

    28. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even a small soda drink is many times larger than a walnut. Besides, the longer you wait to relieve yourself when you feel the urge, the more likely you are to suffer incontinence and sexual dysfunction later in life.

    29. Re:too expensive by arth1 · · Score: 1

      You do realize that theatres are a highly profitable and multi billion dollar business right?

      So were the record industry, wired phone industry, HiFi industry, discoteques and chemical film industry.
      And drive-in movies, for that matter.

      Things change, and seldom overnight. But that it's dying is beyond doubt - that's the whole reason for TFA. Formerly successful big screens losing out to consolidated centers with numerous small screens is part of the process.
      Will it be gone within my lifetime? Doubtful. There are still people who listen to vinyl records and drive to one of the (very) few remaining drive-in theaters. But cinema's days of glory are over.

    30. Re:too expensive by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      They'd have to give a discount on food as well. At least in the US popcorn and a drink run you as much as the ticket.

      "Have to"? Why? Because you'd shrivel up and die if you don't have a dose of artificially-flavored popcorn with artificially-sweetened fizzy water within a 2-hour window?

      There's likely an "insensitive clod" joke in there....

    31. Re:too expensive by crazyjj · · Score: 1

      So was the buggy manufacturing industry at the turn of the 20th century.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    32. Re:too expensive by modecx · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, they should offer more and better types of snacks. Craft beers, cocktails, mini pizzas and things like that, and like other movie theaters, they shouldn't be afraid to charge a price that will make a substantial profit.

      Make going to a movie an event, like flying on a big airliner was in the 60's and 70's, something people actually look forward to. Change the dynamic, in contrast to today where people are treated like cattle, crammed in tight seats and fed garbage food. Break the mold.

      Offer good food and drink specials, not just stuff that is good relative to other theaters, but something that would bring people in on its own whether you were showing a film or not. Have clean floors and facilities, big comfy seats, and perhaps love seats so couples be closer to each-other. Have some special events for subscribers, and more than anything else, make it a adult-oriented social experience people can't get at home with an HDTV and surround sound system. Maybe consider individual screening rooms which segregate couples with noisy kids from everyone else. Dating couples would travel great distances and would be the biggest advocates for something like that.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    33. Re:too expensive by n7ytd · · Score: 1

      They'd have to give a discount on food as well. At least in the US popcorn and a drink run you as much as the ticket.

      We hardly ever buy movie food, we just bring our own. The local (Australia) cinema won't let you bring a backpack or other large bag in (tripping hazard) but they haven't batted an eyelid when we've put the backpack in their lockers and taken in our own popcorn etc. Three of my kids and my wife can't have gluten so buying the food there isn't really an option - too much risk of contamination (who knows what they put in that 'butter'!).

      I prefer not to have food at all in the cinema, but when you have young kids it's a great way to keep them still while they get interested in the movie.

      This is pretty much a no-go in the US. Most theaters have a "no outside food or drink" policy posted on the door and they try to enforce it-- as the GP stated, a popcorn and drink can easily cost $10-$12 and, being popcorn and sugar water, is a huge profit for them.

    34. Re:too expensive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will bother them, they'll look at you and think "why didn't I do that too?!"

    35. Re:too expensive by monkeykoder · · Score: 1

      Does anyone happen to know how f-ing cheap soda is to produce it's like $.25 to make that glass you pay $5 for in theaters that's where you give your discounts (and also why there are free refills on soda in restaurants)

    36. Re:too expensive by monkeykoder · · Score: 1

      It's enforced but easy to get around I have seen a guy smuggle a 12 pack of Budweiser in to the theater with no bag just in random pockets.

    37. Re:too expensive by monkeykoder · · Score: 1

      Drive in >>> regular theaters. There's a little park for the kids to play in nice privacy in the back of your car less kids crying better sound and bigger screens why the hell did we ever invent not drive in theaters?

    38. Re:too expensive by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of Gold Class Theaters. They're incredible, and offer a real premium experience with huge recliners, meal and drink service, and a cool lounge. However, that costs a lot to provide and fits significantly fewer people per screen. Oakhurst doesn't have the numbers or money to support a theater like that.

      While their local supermarket (Raleys) is pretty awesome, I can't imagine them being able to keep a theater like this going... let alone what you suggest.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    39. Re:too expensive by chronokitsune3233 · · Score: 1

      With a financial risk like this, I'm sure there is some caution being exerted.

      Sure, soda may be cheap to produce, but add packaging and distribution costs, which include the labor costs. Then you figure that with all of the expensive equipment and the movies themselves, a theater needs to make a decent profit to be able to handle everything, which is one reason why you have such overpriced snacks.

      You may not even buy anything from the snack bar (a.k.a. "concession stand" here in the US, where you concede and buy things despite the fact that you can get the same items at less than 1/4 of the cost outside the theater). A theater still needs to make money, and tickets actually provide very little profit, if any at all. That's where all of the snacks come in. You can mark up the cost of a bag of popcorn or a paper cup* of fountain soda to help offset the costs, which allows for buying new equipment as well as maintaining current equipment.

      * "Cup" as used here is not 8 fluid ounces (8 fl. oz.) It is simply a vessel for a liquid as in "tea cup". One might say "glass", but to say that you have a paper or plastic glass is rather silly since a glass is made of glass, not paper glass or plastic glass, both of which are not materials that exist with which to make a cup.

      --
      I have been a captive in America my entire life. Everybody and everything uses customary units instead of metric.
    40. Re:too expensive by monkeykoder · · Score: 1

      Just saying if you're going to give discounts on products pick the highest markup product you have.

    41. Re:too expensive by modecx · · Score: 1

      That's pretty freaking awesome, I had no idea such a thing existed. I'll have to make it a point to visit one when I'm near one of their locations. Yeah, you'd definitely have to be in substantial population center to make something like that viable.

      However, that's really on the other end of the spectrum from what I envisioned, thoughâ"for the most part it could just be a regular theater, without most of the suck associated with movie theaters, and a few interesting perks on the side. For example, it would be fairly inexpensive to implement, and high profit (relative to the capital investment in a building, fixtures like seating, sound and projectors) to have some fancy tasting, but cheap to make flatbread mini-pizzas at the concessions stand, panino sandwiches, a few local draught / craft beers, things like that in addition to the high fructose gut rot you'd usually find in a movie house.

      Example: Here in Colorado, there is a great restaurant in a town of about 500, tops, which just happens to be on one of the best motorcycle canyon routes nearest the metro area. Fly fishers, hikers, other sportsmen, and residents of larger surrounding mountain towns are their main customers during the week, and they stay busy despite the odd location. On weekends with reasonably good weather, they very nearly have to beat people away with a stick. It's a destination. High quality eats, regional wines and beers, they flow freely, and it's not inexpensive. When seasonally available, they serve wild game meats, and generally, everything is done exceptionally well, and that keeps them coming.

      As an independent theater, it would be easier to be nimble. You could have a calendar of special events where you're going to show a marathon of oldies but goodies and cult classics that are inexpensive to license, and use social media to spread the word. If there was a quirky but attractive theater like I describe, just a little closer to the metro area, I'd bet it would bring the people in from dozens of miles away.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
  4. Not entirely a new idea by MrEricSir · · Score: 1

    I've been to theaters that sell monthly/yearly passes to frequent movie-goers. From what I've seen though the model is typically to offer a steep discount for tickets if you hold a pass.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    1. Re:Not entirely a new idea by alostpacket · · Score: 5, Funny

      Indeed, season passes are as old as the discovery of fire. The Amalgamated Neanderthal Conglomerate "Ungfrthfrulptlf" (GmbH) used to paint on the cave walls about amazing savings:

      Club just one woman and kill two mammoths a year and enjoy a VIP spot of dirt by the campfire!*

      MUCH cheaper than a saber-tooth per fire.

      *Cannot be combined with any other cave painting. Limited time offer. Dirt spots dependent upon availability and size of mammoth, woman.

      --
      PocketPermissions Android Permission Guide
    2. Re:Not entirely a new idea by Shag · · Score: 2

      Pre-dates movies entirely - back in the colonial days, the educated townfolk would get together and form a "Library Company," each contributing some funds (a subscription, if you will) and typically some books from their own collection. I used to hang around the seventh-oldest library in the US, fun place. Eventually, people figured out that it was best to give everyone in town access to this sort of thing, funded by taxes, so we now have public libraries. But I'm not sure whether people would go for a tax-funded public town cinema... ;)

      --
      Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    3. Re:Not entirely a new idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eventually, people figured out that it was best to give everyone in town access to this sort of thing, funded by taxes, so we now have public libraries. But I'm not sure whether people would go for a tax-funded public town cinema..

      Kinda seems like that's already happening, in a sense. Isn't it increasingly common nowadays for libraries to stock DVD's?

  5. Better idea by simplexion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where I live in Australia it costs around $17 per adult to see a movie at the cinema. The last movie I went to had around 8 people watching it. If they charged $5 per adult I bet there would have been a lot more people watching that movie (that may have also purchased overpriced crappy food from the candy bar).
    It is ridiculous to expect $17 from someone to watch a shitty movie, considering the majority of movies pumped out these days are pretty terrible.

    1. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. The last movie I saw was $22 per ticket (which chain does $17 tickets ?!). There were five people in the room...

    2. Re:Better idea by afidel · · Score: 2

      I just saw Skyfall at a matinee and it was $5.50 per adult, surprise surprise the theater was full which is pretty good for a movie that's been out for 7 weeks.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:Better idea by muphin · · Score: 1

      I agree, i refuse to go to the movies cause its so expensive, i would consider going if it was $10 a ticket...
      the subscription model seems very good , even have family packages...
      if it was $20/mo i would go more often (or say $49.90 for 2 adults and 2 kids), considering when you have kids they also want food, the sales would boost (although $50/mo does start to feel steep per month... even if you miss a few months).

      --
      It's not a typo if you understood the meaning!
    4. Re:Better idea by wisnoskij · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That is a decent price, but even $5 is really on the high end when you are talking about sitting in a $5 chair in a big concrete box for 2 hours watching a screen only like 10 times bigger than what many people have a home nowadays. Even without factoring in the profits from snacks and candy a business model should be maintainable on like $1 a viewing.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    5. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a decent price, but even $5 is really on the high end when you are talking about sitting in a $5 chair in a big concrete box for 2 hours watching a screen only like 10 times bigger than what many people have a home nowadays. Even without factoring in the profits from snacks and candy a business model should be maintainable on like $1 a viewing.

      $1? Are you troll? Or just a moron?
      No doubt $20 a person is to much but if you are going to engage in hyperbole please use the proper markup tags.

    6. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You have absolutely no idea how expensive it is to run a physical business.

    7. Re:Better idea by Mitsoid · · Score: 1

      However, a subscription model is also a good counter to this quantity-over-quality price strategy they have...

      They can pump out as much crappy movies as they want and the viewers can choose to watch it or not... but compared to a traditional model you only need to see 2 or 3 movies to 'break even'

    8. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your wrong. This all depends on how the theater owners get the films. If they pay per viewer and are charged $5-$10 a head then charging $1 probably won't work. Even if you figure a profit of $10 per person (unlikely) most of that is going to someone else.

    9. Re:Better idea by Anubis+IV · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Similarly, I just went to go see The Hobbit earlier today with a coworker (my supervisor, in fact...we skipped out of work early since he wanted to see it), and it was $4 for each of us. To say the least, the theater was packed, despite the fact that our college town is virtually empty while everyone is gone for the holidays. Mind you, this isn't some trashy theater in a seedy part of town either. It's a standard Cinemark in a good location with all of the usual amenities you'd see in an urban center (digital projectors, 3D, XD, and whatever other marketing terms they've invented since I last looked). I think the reason our prices are so low is because our area has around 200,000 people, 50,000 of whom are fickle college students that will go to whichever theater is cheapest, and there's a Premiere theater just down the street that has shown a willingness to closely match the prices Cinemark posts up.

      I've always heard that the concession stand is where the money is at in a theater, and if that's true, I don't know why they're not dropping prices on tickets to get more butts in seats. As it is, higher ticket prices just encourage people to spend more time and money at home with their own entertainment setup.

    10. Re:Better idea by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Where I live in Australia it costs around $17 per adult to see a movie at the cinema. The last movie I went to had around 8 people watching it. If they charged $5 per adult I bet there would have been a lot more people watching that movie

      But if they'd make any money on it would very much depend on whether the cinema is charged per viewer or per showing of the movie and I suspect it's the former. It'd be very hard to make individual deals depending on the "willingness to pay" in that particular town, most likely they're charged as much as other cinemas who may have an audience more willing to pay. In my experience the smaller, regional cinemas are at least as expensive as the big city cinemas, even though rural salaries are typically lower.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    11. Re:Better idea by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Where I live in Australia it costs around $17 per adult to see a movie at the cinema. The last movie I went to had around 8 people watching it. If they charged $5 per adult I bet there would have been a lot more people watching that movie (that may have also purchased overpriced crappy food from the candy bar).

      It is ridiculous to expect $17 from someone to watch a shitty movie, considering the majority of movies pumped out these days are pretty terrible.

      On the other hand, for shitty movies, its ridiculous to even contemplate watching them in a theater, no matter the price.
      After all, that's what the "shitty rental movies Friday nights" are for (take 7 weeklies for $7, make fun of them from the leisure on your couch). I found the time for the today's movies to get into the weekly category is about 3-4 months from their launch in cinemas - good enough for me.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    12. Re:Better idea by sdnoob · · Score: 2

      http://fallstheatre.com/ survives and thrives as a first-run budget theater, 40 year running with the current owner who has a passion for movies and the movie-going experience. today, tickets are an i'm-not-shitting-you $2.00-$3.00 each, snack prices also low (around a buck now, iirc). admission is only a buck more than it was some 20 years ago. granted, as a first-run theater with a single screen, you might have to wait awhile before you can see a specific new release ... but still, it's a very cheap date -- and a true movie-going experience (unlike those mega multiplexes in the big cities) in a building that first opened in 1927. people drive from all over (twin cities, la crosse, eau claire and beyond) to go to the movies there.

      those guys in california will crash and burn at $20 a month or $16 per day.. they're better off taking a trip to river falls, wisconsin, to learn how it's done right.

    13. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have absolutely no idea how much that is not our problem.

    14. Re:Better idea by hjf · · Score: 1

      maybe that's cause if you drop the price too much, you get a bunch of cheapskates who aren't going to get any popcorn anyway.

    15. Re:Better idea by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2

      This doesn't have to be an either/or. You can have it both ways.

      If you're charging $17 per ticket and only get eight people in the showing (as the OP said was happening), you're wasting perfectly good seats that could have been generating you revenue from concessions. Surely a packed theater, even one with cheapskates, would have resulted in more concessions sales than one with only eight of your better customers?

      The only time cheapskates become an issue is when your theater is getting so full that the cheapskates start to displace your better customers. At that point, you can safely say that demand is outstripping supply, so you should raise prices a bit in order to trim the cheapskates off the bottom while retaining your better customers. In doing so, you'll ensure that you'll have as many potential customers as possible to take advantage of the concessions stand, while also discouraging the cheapskates from being the ones that fill the seats.

    16. Re:Better idea by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2

      Your wrong.

      If there's a contest for capturing the true essence of the internet in two words, I think you've just won.

    17. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll go see some movies here (http://cinetopia.com), especially on the 2 huge screens they have in the Progress Ridge location. Totally worth the $13US ticket price to see Skyfall and The Hunger Games there. Best viewing experience imho since I saw Star Wars in Cinerama when I was a kid. This local chain does have its own captive "grown up" restaurants at their theater locations.

    18. Re:Better idea by Misagon · · Score: 1

      You're kidding me! I paid five times that to see the Hobbit movie in Sweden.

      --
      "We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
    19. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that you'd have to sell over three times the tickets with $5 than with $17? Also, there are costs that increase with the number of people in the theater. If you've only got 8 people in the theater, the person manning the concession stand can also do the cleaning quite fast. With a full theater, not so much.

    20. Re:Better idea by afaik_ianal · · Score: 2

      Your wrong

      No. ewe are.

    21. Re:Better idea by travbrad · · Score: 1

      That is a decent price, but even $5 is really on the high end when you are talking about sitting in a $5 chair in a big concrete box for 2 hours watching a screen only like 10 times bigger than what many people have a home nowadays. Even without factoring in the profits from snacks and candy a business model should be maintainable on like $1 a viewing.

      The #1 thing making that business model not "maintainable on like $1 a viewing" is the licensing fees the theaters have to pay to show the films. It depends on the particular business deals but usually 90%+ of the ticket value goes straight to the movie studio. Theaters make almost all of their money on popcorn/soda/candy. Yes it sucks, but that's the reality.

      I think $1 for a movie ticket to a new film is pretty unrealistic though, when you consider how expensive a film is to make, plus the operational costs of the theater.

    22. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What sane person pays $6.00 for a drink and $9.00 for popcorn? I'd rather have a steak dinner.

    23. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And neither you nor the polack idiot above have any idea about how nobody said it was.

    24. Re:Better idea by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      It's part of their agreements with the distributor. They can't drop below a certain price depending on their contract.

    25. Re:Better idea by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't be surprised if that is true, but that number must be ridiculously low, otherwise it would be contradicted by plenty of counterexamples. For instance, Cinemark is an international chain of theaters that, according to you, would be locked into certain prices, yet while Cinemark tickets are $4 in my town, whenever I visit my family living in the suburbs of Houston, the tickets at their local Cinemark theaters are $7.50, and if I travel into downtown Houston to meet some old friends and watch a film, ticket prices at those Cinemark locations can go even higher. If we assume that what you've said is true, then the "certain price" must be below $4, with everything above that being extra profit margins for Cinemark.

      So, in the end, that really doesn't change any of what I was saying previously. I'm not suggesting that every theater should charge $4 for tickets, but $17 for each ticket and only having eight people in a theater, as the OP talked about, is quite ridiculous.

    26. Re:Better idea by pdbogen · · Score: 1

      How's College Station these days, anyway?

    27. Re:Better idea by blackraven14250 · · Score: 2

      It's around 90% the first few nights, and diminishes from there - it's never a raw number, but a percentage of box office take, that the distributor gets, and it's based on a number of factors. Prices are basically dictated by the distributor directly as well, and are subject to localized pricing differences - the small theater is going to be allowed to have lower prices than the one in NYC.

    28. Re:Better idea by n7ytd · · Score: 1

      I just saw Skyfall at a matinee and it was $5.50 per adult, surprise surprise the theater was full which is pretty good for a movie that's been out for 7 weeks.

      We have one remaining "second run" theater in town; $3 tickets, and snacks around half what the "real" theaters charge. Skyfall will probably be there next month. How quickly a movie makes it there is seems to be inversely proportional to how good the movie is.

    29. Re:Better idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You gave yourself away. GigEm. How bout that Jonny Football?

    30. Re:Better idea by bware · · Score: 1

      River Falls, WI has a population of 15,000, and a university, and is one of the fastest growing cities in Wisconsin. Also Wikipedia says it's a suburb of Minneapolis-St. Paul (and thus one would surmise has access to a much larger population but I've never been there so don't know). Oakhurst, CA has a population of 2829, no university, shrinking/stable, and definitely not a suburb of anything. People living in Yosemite Valley (aka dirtbag climbers) drive to Oakhurst to get groceries and spend a rainy afternoon watching movies. That's not a large population.

      They have a slightly different demographic problem to address.

    31. Re:Better idea by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Hah, figured someone might catch on since I dropped enough hints for anyone familiar with the place.

      Things are swell here. It's nice having the town to ourselves while the students are out for a few weeks. And I've been pleasantly surprised with the town. As an undergrad and then a grad student, I never really bothered getting out too much, to be honest, nor did I expect to stay in town after leaving school. But then I was surprised to find an awesome software consulting shop in town that appealed to me a lot more than the alternatives I had on the table.

      Plus, the town has really been growing out in recent years, with pretty much all of the major stores and chains in town at this point. If only Fry's and Apple would set up shop I'd be set.

    32. Re:Better idea by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      I always thought they paid a flat rate for the rights to show it and the reel/digital download they'd use, followed up by a percentage of the ticket sales as royalties. That's why the theater's take increased as time went on, since they would have paid off the up-front cost of purchasing the rights/reel and could then pocket everything else after that. That's why it's so difficult for independent theaters to remain in business as well, since those up-front costs are so high.

    33. Re:Better idea by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Gig'em!

      I hear he's pretty good, but I'm afraid I'm a bit of a 2%er who hasn't been to a game he's played in yet (in fact, despite having been in College Station for 10 years now, I've only ever been to three games: one as an undergrad (which we lost after Texas Tech had a massive come-from-behind push), one as a grad student (which we lost in the last few seconds after missing a field goal), and one as a full-time employee in the town (finally, a win!...but it was against Idaho...)). I think I only watched one game on TV this season, but I have to admit that he was downright outstanding in it. I was at my company's Christmas party at Miramont Country Club the night he won the Heisman, and they stopped everything to announce it. To say the least, that was pretty awesome, and it's something even I can appreciate. That said, I didn't even know we were in the Cotton Bowl until someone else off-handedly mentioned it like it was common knowledge last week.

      Also, I find it funny that I've had two people catch on to which town I was talking about, simply by mentioning theaters and population. In the past, I've talked about TAing some of the largest classes on campus, the research that gets done here, the climate of the region, and numerous other things specific to A&M or College Station, yet no one has commented on recognizing the area I'm talking about. Figures that the theaters would be something everyone knows. :P

  6. Another idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    would be the Green Bay Packers model of community ownership. Keep the theater private but sell shares in the company; for $300 you would be part owner, and would be able to buy a subscription for either $15/month or get a $3 discount on individual tickets.

    1. Re:Another idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      would be the Green Bay Packers model of community ownership. Keep the theater private but sell shares in the company; for $300 you would be part owner, and would be able to buy a subscription for either $15/month or get a $3 discount on individual tickets.

      How much would I have to pay to skip the ads?

    2. Re:Another idea by Shag · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but you just know as soon as you buy your share, whatever you bought the share in is going to have a sucky year. Right, anyone else who bought a share of the Packers last time they were offered?

      And in the case of cinema, no matter how creative your financing model is, you're still stuck trying to sell whatever the studios churn out - which means you're in trouble. What if the good people of your town aren't compelled by next year's selection of remakes, sequels in franchises that should have died long ago, and Uwe Boll projects?

      --
      Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    3. Re:Another idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^ This.

      It's irritating as hell. I hope there's some sort of anti-trust investigation to see if the chains are colluding to show more and more commercials. It seems like it'd be an easy/obvious win for one chain to declare "no commercials!" as an attempt to garner a bigger market share.

    4. Re:Another idea by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      As others have said, there is no requirement to only show new releases. There are a lot of thriving theaters that primarily show old[er] movies. We have a local theater that runs about 50/50 mix of US and foreign films (primarily Bollywood). Of the US films I'd say there's at least three theaters at any given time dedicated to 1 children's movie and a couple of older films. Add to that the current trend of seeing Orchestra/Opera/non-movie performances on a movie screen and you open yourself up to a whole new clientele that aren't looking for the latest Hollywood superhero movie.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
    5. Re:Another idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Communist.

      Fun fact: the NFL has a rule that disallows any other team from joining that isn't owned by one fatcat or by a small group of fatcats. The Packers are exempted only because they've been like that forever. Eventually, the NFL will find a way to wrest the Packers from the horrors of public ownership. After all, the public shouldn't own teams. The public should only pay for the stadiums those teams play in.

  7. They obviously aren't "modelling" too hard by rastoboy29 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wouldn't it be an even better idea to allow subscribers to see all the movies they want?  a) it sounds like a better deal for potential customers and b) they are still likely to purchase overpriced refreshments, which is the real cash cow of a movie theater.

    Not to mention not having to track who has seen what.

    Duh.

    1. Re:They obviously aren't "modelling" too hard by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      What?!? Popcorn and soda isn't included? I already pay $20 with popcorn and soda.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    2. Re:They obviously aren't "modelling" too hard by Marc_Hawke · · Score: 1

      This is my thing. If I was going to subscribe to a movie theater, I'd get to go as many times as I wanted. I wouldn't be locked into seeing the good shows only once. It would probably end up with more 'day pass' customers since you'd likely bring new friends with you on the subsequent visits.

      Regardless on whether it's a good ideas for the theater though, it's the only way I'd ever even consider 'subscribing' to a theater. Make it like a bus-pass (unlimited rides) or forget about it.

      --
      --Welcome to the Realm of the Hawke--
    3. Re:They obviously aren't "modelling" too hard by Ixokai · · Score: 2

      Did you miss the part of RTFA where it talks about movie distribution contracts? They aren't free to set any business model they want. They owe a percentage to the upstream provider based on "ticket sales" -- every person in a seat for every showing -- and are *required* to track that.

      Now, I have no idea how they're calculating ticket sales or basing the percentage owed off of what value or any of the various details involved, but public showing of movies requires a separate license and those terms are not something three guys in some small town can just get set at whatever is most convenient for their ideal business situation.

      It'd surely be better for consumers if it were an all you can use service, but I bet they are still with its once-per-movie plan actually intending on getting most of their money from refreshments and the like..., because movie theaters really don't make that much off of ticket sales. I don't know the precise details, but for new releases theaters only get like 20-30% or so of the ticket sales... after a month or so, they may get most of it, but they always end up paying.

      And remember, a big point of this plan is these local people *do* want to go out and watch new releases and have social events after them with their community, and not have to drive an hour away to do that. So while some people will be going and watching when this theater gets most of the money, a lot will be going when they have to pay most of it to the movie's owner.

    4. Re:They obviously aren't "modelling" too hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess they thought it would be easier to track how many times a pass has been used to see a particular movie than to track how many times a person has seen a movie. Most likely a not too well thought through way to prevent subscription sharing.

    5. Re:They obviously aren't "modelling" too hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1 Fuck you for the font choice.

      Why do you bother?

      Asshole

    6. Re:They obviously aren't "modelling" too hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can watch any movie however often you want, you can just pass your subscription card on to your friends, instead of bringing them along for your next round.

    7. Re:They obviously aren't "modelling" too hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What?!? Popcorn and soda isn't included? I already pay $20 with popcorn and soda.

      Too see a single movie. This model would allow them to see each movie. Most US theatres are 20 screens with a variety of mini-IMAX, standard and small rooms. Unless a blockbuster is out, you'll have at least 15 movies to pick from every two weeks. That ain't bad for $20/month.

    8. Re:They obviously aren't "modelling" too hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't it be an even better idea to allow subscribers to see all the movies they want?

      Studios demand their pound of flesh. Theaters have to track the bodies and pay the royalties.

  8. Life as a service. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Life as a service. You don't own anything, you owe everyone.

  9. Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Payphone booths and arcades are. Plain and simple. Too many other options.

    I only go to the movies for the latest releases (so few that are worth it). The big players will hang on. I almost think the small theaters are being run out by design - because the longer a movie is out, the bigger cut the theater gets from ticket sales which start out at 100% for the studios.

    Today, people can buy 70" flat led screen for around $1900, an 83" Mitsubishi dlp for $1800 (92" for $2800). Rent 3-6 month old movies at Redbox for a little over a buck, stream it from Netflix, etc.

    It's a shame, because of the whole going out of the house thing (although, since I only view Matinees where it's empty - any potential social value dwindles to nothing). Speaking of social value, the only theater that's been built in my growing area the last 10 years has been one that is a restaurant and where you can order real food. So, added value options may grow from being a novelty to the norm.

    Who knows, with TVs getting cheaper and cheaper all the time, in 30 years, huge A/Ced and heated theaters that sit empty most of the time may have largely become a thing of the past except in places like Las Vegas or the planetariums.

    I view the 3D thing as largely a play to stay relevant, and it's probably not working all that well. I'm sure some theater owners are praying for Avatar 2 and 3 to come out soon.

    1. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      BTW, for those that say around $2k for a big TV is too much of an investment -- maybe if you're single. But once you have 2-3 kids, a theater experience is going to run $40+ in tickets alone, probably another $20 in food, and after a few trips, a home cinema is going to look damn cheap.

    2. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by bagboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This... > "So, added value options may grow from being a novelty to the norm................" We have a local theater that has for 10 years - offerred around 3-6 month out of date releases (and lots of indie films) for 3 bucks a ticket, You can order your meal (specialty pizzas, burritos, hot sandwiches) which is delivered to your table (every other row are tables instead of seats, you place your black-light sensitive cone at your spot), has it's own brewery and beer/wine bar in the back of the downstairs (in the theater) (balcony seating for those under 21 or unaccompanied by adults). 10 years later and it still has lines out the doors Friday - Sunday before showings. It's an awesome date/family event. They even have special events for bands and indie film events. This - is how a movie theater can stay relevant.

    3. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by Delarth799 · · Score: 1

      With the price of tickets and concessions a family of 4 will probably spend roughly $100 going to the movie theater, maybe more depending on their location and if they go during matinee hours or not. Going just once a month for a year and that's most of the cost of the TV right there.

    4. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lets assume that the big 70" LCD TV is $2000.
      Lets round up the $19.95 to $20.

      That's 100 months (> 8 years) of going to the movies.

      Now if you replace the 70" with a 83" in 5 years, then you never break even.

      Then add in service costs for out of warranty repairs and outage time.

      The $20/month subscription to a movie cinema for "see any number of movies once for $19.95" is a much better deal than buying your own big LCD TV.

    5. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're assuming that only one person watches the TV, and that every movie goer lives in walking distance of the theatre.

      Face it, we have a TV anyhow. We might want to buy a bigger one if we're movie buffs. So realistically, perhaps only $500-$1000 in extra expenses. Add the cost of renting or buying movies.
      Then subtract the cost of going to a movie theatre, including tickets, concession prices versus home prices, travel, and extra time. For a family, it quickly becomes far more expensive, with less choice and comfort, sitting behind Big Afro, with miss Wheezy Death coughing down your neck, two tweens who giggle and just won't shut up on one side, and an idiot who txts every 30 seconds on the other.
      At the end, you smile and tell your friends how great a time you had and that you should do it again soon, while in your mind you hope "soon" is far, far away.

    6. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by johnkoer · · Score: 1

      And god forbid you need a babysitter. A 2.5 - 3 hour movie plus dinner will run you another $50-$60

    7. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by blahplusplus · · Score: 2

      "It's a shame, because of the whole going out of the house thing"

      I've never considered movie watching a social activity, it's the least social thing you can do with a person when you 'get together' with them. Sharing the same space and warming the same air staring at a screen while not talking is not my idea of meaningful social interaction.

    8. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      Payphone booths and arcades are. Plain and simple. Too many other options.

      Many people today have never seen a movie on a screen 40 feet across (or even 25 feet across), and I'm not talking IMAX.

      The "Big Screen" does not exist in most cities anymore, the 25-plex sports screens only slightly bigger than the largest TV you can buy at COSTCO.

      And it's a shame, because the "Big Screen" was part of the attraction.

      That, and 60 to 70% of movies are throw-away garbage these days, so WHY would someone pay 10$ or more to see that crap anyway?

      Theaters (along with the studios) cut their own throats.

      In my town (Tacoma, Washington) we have The Grand Cinima, and The Blue Mouse, both of which have a reasonably big screen. But we also have a drive-in that has a simply HUGE screen.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    9. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      Except for the fact that movie theaters aren't dying. Not even close, actually. Last year was the best year ever for box office receipts in the US.

    10. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then subtract the cost of going to a movie theatre, including tickets, concession prices versus home prices, travel, and extra time. For a family, it quickly becomes far more expensive, with less choice and comfort

      Doesn't that depend on the family and the family home?
      Does the entire family sit together on the sofa and not disrupt each other for the entire length of any LoTR movie?
      Yeah, thought so.

      So rather than try and pick bones with subjective things, concentrate on the numbers.

      For a couple, at $20/each per month, that's $480/year. A $1000 TV is 2 years of movies, a $2000 TV is 4 years of movies.

      For a family of 4, it is the cost of a TV/year to have a subscription to the cinema.

      The cost in gas of going to the movies is easily amortized with careful planning by (for example) doing weekly shopping at a supermarket between the cinema and home.

      with miss Wheezy Death coughing down your neck, two tweens who giggle and just won't shut up on one side, and an idiot who txts every 30 seconds on the other.

      Ah, if only home was a paradise where you could watch a movie without interruptions. I mean it's not like the phone (landline or cell) would ring, is it? And people are still going to text, fart, cough, etc.

      When you go to the movies and everyone does the right thing (no texting, for example) during the movie, it is quite enjoyable because there are no interruptions due to kids coming in and asking you for something else, getting up to go to the bathroom, etc.

      Yeah, I suspect that the real problem for people going to the movies today is that they actually have to unplug themselves from the phone network/Internet for a couple of hours while they are awake.

    11. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why so many kids, is 7 Billion not enough?.

    12. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by Jerry+Smith · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that only one person watches the TV, and that every movie goer lives in walking distance of the theatre.

      Face it, we have a TV anyhow. We might want to buy a bigger one if we're movie buffs. So realistically, perhaps only $500-$1000 in extra expenses. Add the cost of renting or buying movies.
      Then subtract the cost of going to a movie theatre, including tickets, concession prices versus home prices, travel, and extra time. For a family, it quickly becomes far more expensive, with less choice and comfort, sitting behind Big Afro, with miss Wheezy Death coughing down your neck, two tweens who giggle and just won't shut up on one side, and an idiot who txts every 30 seconds on the other.
      At the end, you smile and tell your friends how great a time you had and that you should do it again soon, while in your mind you hope "soon" is far, far away.

      That's the reason our family hardly sees a cinema from the inside anymore. 4 persons is $40 in tickets (rebate included, otherwise $50). Parking or public transport: another $10 (can't be combined with groceries, but I'll leave the petrol price out of it). So minimum $50 per visit, make that an monthly one and it ends at $600 EXTRA yearly costs. Plus no other people or distractions like Cackling Whig or Noisy Spoiled Brat.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
    13. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      Does the entire family sit together on the sofa and not disrupt each other for the entire length of any LoTR movie?
      Yeah, thought so.

      Pause, Rewind, Play.

    14. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " 60 to 70% of movies are throw-away garbage these days"

      I keep hearing this sort of statement, does anyone actually believe it? If anything we have a higher ratio of quality movies coming out than any other time period in history.

    15. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by TFAFalcon · · Score: 1

      But why count the entire cost of the TV? The family will also be watching other things (news, cartoons, p0rn). So that cost will need to be paid anyway.

    16. Re:Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look, you may still be into Pauly Shore, but most of us are not 14 any more.

  10. Sounds Like A Good Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wish there was something like this near me, I don't see a lot of movie but I would then. Put it near a friggin highschool you'd get a shitton of subscribers.

  11. Why are their costs $60,000 a month? by gozar · · Score: 1

    I have a local 3 screen theater that shows first run movies for $5 (matinee is $4) and another small theater 15 miles away with one screen that is pretty cheap (can't remember ticket price off the top of my head though).

    I couldn't imagine these theaters combined have gross receipts for a year coming close to $60,000, let alone having those costs per month.

    The other theater is transitioning to digital soon, too.

    --
    What, me worry?
    1. Re:Why are their costs $60,000 a month? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      I don't have the actual costing of a movie theatre but $60k/mo sounds reasonable:

      Purchase of equipment (spread out over a few years - those digital projectors are expensive)

      Staff costs. Peope don't come cheap. That includes staff actually running the theatre (operating the projector, manning the bar, checking tickets, etc), and administration staff.

      Venue rental. Even in a mountain community that will be significant as a movie theatre needs a decent sized unit.

      Movie rental. Those movies do not come for free, the movie makers want to be paid - either in part of revenue, or a flat fee, I don't know how that works but it'll amount to a significant cost.

      And for your local theatre: say every screen attracts on average 100 people a day for all screenings combined, say that's 300 tickets a day, ticket price you say cheap so let's put it at $8 average, for a gross receipt of $2400 a day, or $72,000 a month, and $864,000 a year. That's before sales of food and drinks, and revenue from commercials played before the main movie.

      New digital projectors may easily cost them a couple hundred thousand dollars, that's a big investment on such a turnover.

  12. Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by fsterman · · Score: 1

    How the hell can this cost $60K? Even the highest resolution used on 70' screens is only 4096x2160. The only non off-the-shelf component would be the optical equipment, and couldn't they retrofit the optics of existing 35mm projectors?

    --
    Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
    1. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by Alamais · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I've never understood why there isn't a cheaper way to do digital projection. Why can't you make a 'digital film' that you can mount in front of an old projector's bulb? Might be pricey, but I'd think still way less than for a new digital theater projector. The local drive-in was begging for donations this past summer, so they could buy a new projector. All I can think is price gouging and/or collusion.

    2. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't you know that just any digital projector won't do, it has to be blessed with the movie studios' DRM schemes to play the new releases.

    3. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by fsterman · · Score: 1

      And if you aren't paying for the cost to print the film, shouldn't it be cheaper for the theater owners in the long run? Wikipedia estimates the cost of a single 35mm print at ~$2,000. Even if they only showed 1 new movie/month, they would break even in 2.5 years. Anyone should be able to get a bank-loan based on that calculation. Hell, I am surprised the manufacturers don't offer financing.

      --
      Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
    4. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Theatre owners don't buy the prints. They rent them from distributors. The same print may play in several theatres, spreading out the lab costs among them. Any lab cost savings are kept by the "film" distributors. This does not benefit exhibitors in any way.

    5. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by CaptainLard · · Score: 1

      Couple of guesses off the top of my head...1) The market for movie theater projectors is much smaller than home projectors so you lose economies of scale. 2) to retrofit optics, there would have to be some standard to conform with so I see it as unlikely that the manufacturer will maintain backwards compatibility with a design that's probably 30 years old, also the light sources may be incompatible between film and digital 3) the warranties probably go above the 30 day manufacture defect one you get at best buy 4) You likely have to have a professional set it up and calibrated with specialized equipment. I can see that easily doubling the price of the hardware alone 5) training time for employees might be built in to the cost.

    6. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by rev0lt · · Score: 2

      The only non off-the-shelf component would be the optical equipment, and couldn't they retrofit the optics of existing 35mm projectors?

      Actually, no. To get an actual watchable cinema screen, you need "professional" projector lamps, and those aren't "off the shelf", and they're more akin to vacuum tubes than to actual lamps (Xenon lamps). Keep in mind, color depth and fidelity is dictated by the quality of the lamp, even on a digital projector, and with a lifespan less than 1000 hours, they aren't cheap. Nor is the electricity. And if you use 35mm projectors, you'd need a 4k projector screen of the size of the 35mm frame - or complex optics to perform the upscaling/downscaling adjustment. A 4k cinema DLP

    7. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by rev0lt · · Score: 1

      Because most projectors are basically a LCD/TFT screen with a stronger backlight (even if using reflection techniques). Imagine having a 35mm 2K/4K TFT screen, able to be used in projectors, plus the lighting for it - because everything else requires complex conversion optics.

    8. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by Hans+Lehmann · · Score: 1

      A projector that can cover a full sized movie screen is a lot different than a projector that we typically use to present power point slides at our weekly staff meeting, and the fact that it's 4096x2160 has little to do with that. Much more light, much bigger power supply, much more cooling, much bigger lenses, etc., all equal much more money. Can you retrofit an existing film projector? Not really, unless you can come up with some way of creating a digital film frame that can sit in the film gate of an existing projector that has the necessary resolution, can be color calibrated, and can withstand the heat of the projector lamp focused on that square inch or so that covers the film gate. If you can invent that, I'll invest in your company. Otherwise, yeah, you pretty much have to scrap the entire film projector.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    9. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A little digging on that projector shows a $1500 lamp that needs to be replaced about every 3 months.... not exactly cheap-as-free.

    10. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      even film cannot take the heat, the fact that it is moving fast is the only thing keeping it from igniting

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    11. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because most projectors are basically a LCD/TFT screen with a stronger backlight (even if using reflection techniques). Imagine having a 35mm 2K/4K TFT screen, able to be used in projectors, plus the lighting for it - because everything else requires complex conversion optics.

      Where "able to be used in projectors" means not bloody well melting into a pile of slag when placed inches from a kilowatt arc lamp.

    12. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by Misagon · · Score: 1

      Digital Cinema is using a codec that is so difficult that it requires specialized hardware to decode. (One JPEG [b]2000[/b] image per frame, not good old JPEG, which is completely different)

      The lifespan of cinema digital projection equipment is also quite short, so it will have to be replaced regularly.

      --
      "We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
    13. Re:Why does it cost $60K to convert to digital? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the hell can this cost $60K?

      Proprietary crypto & hardware to prevent theater staff from copying the movie.

      Yes, you could build an equivalent caliber projection system for one-tenth of the cost, but the studios won't let you put their precious content on it. You have to use DCI-certified gear.

  13. Real Butter by gr8_phk · · Score: 1

    How about having actual butter for the popcorn? I can no longer get the overpriced popcorn at theatres, not just due to the shitty taste of the stuff but because the "popcorn topping" is full of MSG and consistently gives me a migraine headache right around the time we're heading home. It used to be "butter" then "butter flavor" and now they don't even pretend it's that. And guess what? It's not just me that doesn't buy it any more.

    Popcorn popped in real vegetable oil, with real butter and salt will give off a smell that will draw tons of people out to get some even at movie theatre prices.

    1. Re:Real Butter by greatgreygreengreasy · · Score: 2

      Our local theater just upgraded to digital, new sound system too. They pump up the volume so loud now that I can't bear to watch anything there anymore. But, they DO have real butter and salt, so we just grab the popcorn and take it home. Cheaper that way too. :)

      --
      LRN 2 SWM
    2. Re:Real Butter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MSG, poor baby.

    3. Re:Real Butter by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      they DO have real butter and salt, so we just grab the popcorn and take it home. Cheaper that way too. :)

      Is there actually any possible way that this can make more sense than putting popcorn and oil and salt in a pot and putting it on the range with a lid on and moving it around from at least when it starts to sizzle to when the popping slows and you take it off the heat? (You may, if you wish, add butter later, but I just pop it in olive oil now, and I put all the oil in the pot at the beginning, done and done)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  14. Great job modeling the business plan by joeflies · · Score: 2

    Oakhurst, CA: Population 2829. Good luck getting 3000 paying customers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakhurst,_California

    1. Re:Great job modeling the business plan by JDevers · · Score: 1

      County population is 150,865 though.

    2. Re:Great job modeling the business plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I didn't check all of them, but at least the two largest communities in the country have multiple theaters and probably don't have much interest in paying to drive an hour to go to this one.

    3. Re:Great job modeling the business plan by nrozema · · Score: 1

      The theater serves a mountain area of many small communities. Total area population is in the 40k range.

  15. Grandpa Grumpy... by SuperCharlie · · Score: 0

    I have good memories of movies 10-20 years ago.. the last movie I went to a theater to see was probably 3-4 years ago.. it was packed with insensitive chattering cell phone texting people who made the experience miserable. Sure you can call the usher or whoever and ask them to shut someone up but it seemed like there were more people texting and talking than were watching the movie.. so I decided to say screw the whole overpriced self-induced abuse mess. Screw movie theaters, Ill watch something on Netflix or Prime and save myself the harassment.

  16. Probably not plausible by sunking2 · · Score: 1

    15% sounds great, but it's probably not attainable. $240/year per person is not very family friendly. And it's not very senior citizen friendly. I just don't see them hitting the number goals.

  17. It's not "digital distribution" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not Film
    It's Television

    1. Re:It's not "digital distribution" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would tend to agree, but there are technical differences. A DCP (digital cinema package) is a frame sequence with a soundtrack. By contrast, a "video" signal contains blanking and sync information, which does not exist in D-cinema. So it isn't quite the same thing, but it still sucks compared to a good photochemical print.

  18. this won't fly with the film distributors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I book films for a local theatre. Unless there are major changes with film distribution terms, this won't fly. Films are rented to theatres with terms that require a minimum guarantee from the theatre versus a percentage of the boxoffice gross. For a first run title, the percentage will start high (think 90% or so) and drop each week until it gets to 35% or so. For a 90% title, the theatre gets $1 of your $10 ticket, and the distributor gets $9. Boxoffice reports are submitted daily and list the number of tickets sold for each price category and the total number of tickets sold and boxoffice take for the day for the film in question.

    There is no way that a subscription pricing model would work under standard film rental terms, since there is no standard ticket price on which to base the percentages. Any theatre that tried this without first convincing the film distributors to all change their business models (ha!) would never be able to get films to show. This is an industry that does not really like innovation and which is reluctant to change a business model that has worked well (more or less) for the last hundred years (or so).

    The D-cinema thing is an entirely different issue. Cost is about $60k per screen for the projector and server, assuming that a sound system already exists for 35mm and can be (mostly) re-used for D-cinema. Only DCI-compliant equipment can be used--this is not the same thing as a regular off-the-shelf video projector, as it contains specific crypto hardware to make movie piracy difficult (no doubt it will be cracked eventually, however). No one is actually forcing this conversion at the moment, so 35mm film is still viable for the time being. This conversion process has been discussed for the last ten years or so, but has only really started to speed up over the last two.

    1. Re:this won't fly with the film distributors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      According to a local theater owner I talked to, the push to digital is mostly forced on the theaters interested in showing older movies only available in digital since the 35mm disintegrate over time and making new ones are usually not cost effective. I could also see indie being similar in some cases, but he did not mention that. The pricing model might be different for older/indie films.

    2. Re:this won't fly with the film distributors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Major theatre chains pay a film rental fee to the distributor based on overall attendance.

      Most film rentals are around 50% of net box, but are negotiated.

      Paying x% of the first weeks take stopped around 2000 when the major theatre chains went bankrupt.

    3. Re:this won't fly with the film distributors by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      You could do it, it just would have to be second run movies, which is probably what a theatre in a town that small is doing anyway.

    4. Re:this won't fly with the film distributors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only DCI-compliant equipment can be used--this is not the same thing as a regular off-the-shelf video projector, as it contains specific crypto hardware to make movie piracy difficult (no doubt it will be cracked eventually, however).

      I highly doubt it. Digital films (DCPs) are crypted with AES and each cinema has its own private key. It's not a crappy DRM scheme, it's actual public-key encryption. DCPs are always stored encrypted, only the projector has the keys to actually decipher the content.

      No one is actually forcing this conversion at the moment, so 35mm film is still viable for the time being. This conversion process has been discussed for the last ten years or so, but has only really started to speed up over the last two.

      Don't forget the cinema distribution industry is specific to each country. In France (for example), the conversion to digital is subsidized using virtual print fees so that the production of 35mm film reels can stop in a planned manner. This way, smaller and independent theaters can go digital at a reasonable cost. Other EU countries have adopted the same method.

  19. It won't work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have managed theaters for two large chains. Frankly the concept of a movie theater is dead meat. The hang on, improve and survive executives simply have lost the battle.
                        Early on the theaters were huge. The cost of admission was trivial. Theaters relied on candy, popcorn and sodas as well as more complete menus the further back one goes. That was the profit gimmick. One need not make a penny on film if one sells enough food. Sadly theaters lost the ability to serve decent snack food as management types cut back on food expenses and quality. That alone was enough to kill the industry but inflation and the invention of TV and then cable were the death songs of the theater industry. One can easily have a first rate movie experience at home and the cost is trivial as it is wrapped in bundled services. For about $5. per day i can have thousands of movies and shows, my phone service and a high speed net connection that dwarfs a wired connection and use these features all day, every day. For another buck or so my home alarm service can also come by cable. Compared to that why would i go to a theater?

  20. Haven't gone in years by DiSKiLLeR · · Score: 1

    I haven't gone to the movies in years.

    I remember prices for tickets were like $12-$16 or so in Australia and New Zealand per adult. And that's before you even add in the stupid overpriced cost of popcorn and coke, etc.

    Combined with the fact there's very good movies coming out anymore, whats the honest point? I can see why movie theatres/cinema's are going broke.

    --
    You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
    1. Re:Haven't gone in years by DiSKiLLeR · · Score: 1

      very few* good movies coming out anymore.

      --
      You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
    2. Re:Haven't gone in years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regular adult ticket prices in NZ are pretty high. I retired to NZ 6 years ago, and my wife and I like to go to see movies on the big screen. (We don't have ths same streaming options that Americans have.) There is one cinema in town which has 9 theatres. We have seen prices go up from $12 to $15 in that time, which pinches. Fortunately old folks get a break of $9.50 senior prices. I really don't like the $3 premium they put on 3D movie tickets, which makes it $18 for a regular ticket. (3D glasses are additional).
       
      I also don't like that there are no free refills on popcorn.

      We go typically once a week, and sometimes more. In recent years, we have seen some really excellent films that we will remember forever. I disagree that no good films are being made today. Of course, our cinema does not just show the US blockbusters. We see films from Sweden, France, Finland, UK, all over. It's great. If you think none of the films being made are good, then your local provider is letting you down by not showing them.

  21. Bill Gates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know that Gates is devoting his MS wealth to his various philanthropic causes, but what about all the other tech billionaires out there looking for something to spend their wealth on besides NFL teams, private space missions, yachts and private jets. Have any of them considered being the cultural angels of (selected) towns? It could be a lot of fun for them, they'd be the program directors in return for (presumably) operating at a loss.

    1. Re:Bill Gates by Seumas · · Score: 1

      I don't get it. You want billionaires to rescue theaters under the guise of some "cultural" value to everyone packing theaters to watch Meet the Spartans and the Fockers?

  22. Guess this depends on the number of screens by Nyder · · Score: 1

    If we are talking a movie theater with 6 screens, then sure, sounds like a great deal if you like going to movies. At least that way you are going to get a variety of different movies in, if we are talking 1 or 2 screens, then no, sounds like a rip off, seeing as you probably won't get more then 3 or 4 movies a month.

    Now the problem with movie theaters is the Movie Industry takes too big of a cut of the ticket sales, without giving back. Considering they are taking in most the profit, they should be doing the refitting to digital, if that is how they are going to be distributing them.

    I find movies going to be a horrible experience unless you are talking a very old theater with 1 screen. I'd much rather watch stuff at home, sure on a smaller screen, but cheaper food, I'm free to drink/smoke and be in my underwear. If i have to go to the bathroom, I can pause it.

    I try not to contribute to the Movie Industries profits anyways, since not only do they not put stuff into public domain, but since they treat customers like criminals, on the hunt for "supposed" profit, while doing tricky accounting to make sure the actors, producers, etc on a film doesn't make any profit either.

    --
    Be seeing you...
  23. Supply and demand? by _Shorty-dammit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is that movie theaters seem to be about the only business that not only doesn't understand or even attempt to follow supply and demand with their pricing of both the attractions and the food, but seem to publicly admit that they don't think supply/demand makes sense? If nobody wants to buy something I'm selling, the price is too high. Any sane person in the world would lower their price. That's the whole idea behind supply and demand. But what do movie theaters do? Jack up the price even more, and claim that they need to do so to survive. On what crazy planet does that even begin to make sense?

    Popcorn is CHEAP. Why would you charge $7 for it and then complain that nobody buys it?

    Sodas are CHEAP. Why would you charge $5 for it and then complain that nobody buys it?

    I don't know about theaters around the country, but where I live we have "cheap nights" on Tuesdays, where movie tickets are a good deal cheaper than usual. And typically the theaters are packed full on that night. Every other night? You could count patrons in a given theater without running out of digits on your hands/feet. And even *THAT* doesn't tell theater owners that their regular prices are too high?! Your theaters are packed full on cheap nights because the price is easier to swallow. It shouldn't cost a family of four over $80 to go have a movie night, yet that's exactly what it cost a friend of mine to take his family to a movie on the weekend. Hell, it cost me and a friend, just two of us, almost $50 to go see 48 fps Hobbits a couple weeks ago. Almost $50 for two tickets and one popcorn/drink/chocolate combo. That's way too much money, and that is exactly the reason movie theaters are struggling, yet they just don't get it.

    Supply and demand. This is an insanely old concept that pretty much everyone seems to understand. Except movie theater owners. WHY?!

    Look at video games, and Valve's Steam store in particular. They've publicly discussed a few times over the past few years how they have seen insane increases in revenue whenever they have big sales on games, on the order or 40x increase in revenue in one case! Here's what I think was the first article discussing it back in 2009: http://www.edge-online.com/features/valve-are-games-too-expensive/

    Movie theaters' own cheap nights prove that supply and demand is warranted in their market, just like any other. If they would lower prices of everything, tickets and refreshments/food, they'd see way more people, and way more money, come their way. If only they'd take their heads out of their asses.

    1. Re:Supply and demand? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Popcorn is CHEAP. Why would you charge $7 for it and then complain that nobody buys it?

      Sodas are CHEAP. Why would you charge $5 for it and then complain that nobody buys it?

      It's always been a truism among fast food joints that they make their profits from selling soda. Movies and ballparks make their money in concessions. Of course these items are overpriced - they are losing money or breaking even on the main event, which they have to hold the line on to avoid sticker shocking their potential customers. They are banking on the fact that customers are not perfectly rational and do not budget their outings to the last dollar and avoid impulse purchases like popcorn and drinks, especially when Dad is paying for a party of six.

      We saw the same type of commentary with record stores. It's easy to sit back and say that everyone is incompetent. Of course some are going to be incompetent, but if many are all going out of business then there must be some external factor(s) in play.

    2. Re:Supply and demand? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Why is that movie theaters seem to be about the only business that not only doesn't understand or even attempt to follow supply and demand with their pricing of both the attractions and the food, but seem to publicly admit that they don't think supply/demand makes sense? If nobody wants to buy something I'm selling, the price is too high. Any sane person in the world would lower their price. That's the whole idea behind supply and demand.

      No it's not, you're making a ton of assumptions about the price/demand curve here. If a product costs me $8 to make and I sell it for $9, then I might make more money selling it for $10 as long as my sales don't drop by half or more. If you think more volume is always better then McDonald's dollar meals should be the only game in down but in fact there's lot of food places making good money on selling better food at higher prices. If you're struggling the right answer could just as easily be to offer a more premium service for a higher price as the opposite. Often the demand curve is not nearly as elastic as you'd think because people are busy and have limited time or they've had their fill, you'd not go to the cinema every day even if it was a dollar. Like it or not, sometimes the answer is to make more money off them when they first go.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:Supply and demand? by Mantrid42 · · Score: 1

      You don't seem to understand that the theaters are at the mercy of the studios.

    4. Re:Supply and demand? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Like it or not, sometimes the answer is to make more money off them when they first go.

      While this is true, only when you have a captive audience can you suck all the money out of their wallets. Otherwise they'll find something cheaper to do.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Supply and demand? by perlith · · Score: 2

      If they would lower prices of everything, tickets and refreshments/food, they'd see way more people, and way more money, come their way.

      Worked at a theater for several years. A few interesting tidbits for the chain I worked for:
      - Movie theaters are in the business of selling popcorn and concessions, not in the business of showing movies. You could substitute the movies with another popular activity in a public space and the same business model would exist.
      - Movie theaters largely do not set prices of tickets ... the studios do that. Local market conditions do factor into the ticket price though ... one of the local towns near where I live only charges $5 for a matinee vs. $7.50+ everywhere else ... otherwise the local town theater WOULD go out of business.
      - You pay for the container the food or drink is put in, not the contents of the container. Accounting is also done the same way. Management freaked out when 1000 nacho trays were lost at one point ... $0.05 to produce, $5000+ in inventory.
      - Staff is not cheap. Weekdays Monday-Thursday usually operate as a loss ... the revenue is not enough to keep 3 minimum wage people (box office, usher, concessions) + 2 managers (1 customer service/other, 1 projectionist) around. On Friday-Sunday, look to a 1 employee to 250 patron ratio.
      - Marketing and customer data is poorly collected and analyzed. This is probably the biggest issue with movie theaters, they do not know their customers or market well enough to make global decisions yet allow for local adjustments. Example for concessions: Mountain Dew and Hotdogs _ALWAYS_ sell more at the midnight showings then popcorn does and the hotdogs need to be thrown out at the end of the day if not consumed. Not every theater does a midnight showing. For those that do, why not discount the hotdogs at the midnight showings to sell them instead of throwing them out? This is an extremely simple example and proper analytics would reveal much more interesting customer trends.



      I do agree with your point on the concession prices. During the summer twice a week they would show a kids movie from the past 1-5 years at 10am each morning. Tickets were $1 each, and kiddie popcorn trays prices were halved. The combination dropped the total price per child to about $5. Having 500+ kiddies running around at 10am in the morning was a bit of a headache, but made more money during the weekdays from those two showings than the rest of the weekdays combined. Another example, refillable plastic cups that were $10 initial purchase, $1 to refill ... had people looking in the trash for these things, taking them home + washing, then bringing back all summer. Lowering the prices all of the time does NOT make sense, but mixing up discounts, special offerings, a real rewards program, etc. all combined have a huge return on business ... and none of this is rocket science.

      Biggest issue is movie theaters still operate largely in a static mode with their business model. The price is one such element of static thinking as parent pointed out. A subscription based model like this I applaud as it does give an example of dynamic thinking that will encourage customer loyalty. Otherwise, competition such as Redbox and Netflix that is more dynamic in their business model will eat away at profits. I only hope we don't see the opposite of the supply/demand curve, that is, movie theaters go bankrupt and available supply of theaters become so low that prices naturally DO go up.

    6. Re:Supply and demand? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      It's not the theaters.
      From the post above "...For a first run title, the percentage will start high (think 90% or so) and drop each week until it gets to 35% or so. For a 90% title, the theatre gets $1 of your $10 ticket, and the distributor gets $9. ..."

      I used to rage at the cost of popcorn and pop, until I learned this a couple of decades ago. Basically, the studios and their distribution systems - now that they're digital, the 'distribution' costs nearly nothing - are pricing themselves out of existence.

      Sorry about the theaters, but good riddance to middlemen.

      --
      -Styopa
    7. Re:Supply and demand? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cinemas are in the business of, essentially, price discrimination. They offer a product: movie night. They charge some people less than others. Its legal because they charge everybody less on the same nights. But people who want to pay less for a ticket only go when .. tickets are cheap. If you want to go on nights when its most convenient (weekends), you pay more.

      Concessions are expensive, not because the drink or the snacks are expensive, but because they let the cinema extract different prices for movie night from different customers. If you don't value popcorn and a movie that differently from just the movie, you don't get popcorn. You might like the popcorn, but its the movie you're there for. You pay the ticket price and watch the movie. The other guy who really likes popcorn and movie, pays for that type of movie night. Also.. if you watch movies at home with popcorn.. you clean up the mess. If you watch them at the cinema, the cinema cleans up the mess. And.. they get pretty messy. So it isn't merely a matter of the cost of the popcorn, either.

      All that said, I don't think much of the future of the business model. Too many people can get away with paying substantially less over time by watching movies at home. Yeah the screen is smaller in absolute terms, but you're not sitting as far away so its only a bit smaller in relative terms. There are 7.1 receivers to deliver most of the audio experience. There's no putting up with shitty strangers in the audience. You can have whatever food you feel like putting together, rather than the cinema's poor selection of snacks. So, its too easy to substitute the home movie experience at lower costs, for every type of customer for which the cinema exists.

      The future of cinema is almost certainly going to be of the restaurant type, where they are selling a leisurely eating experience that happens to also have a movie*. There are fewer seats, because of the room needed for tables, so fewer ticket sales. But the cinema doesn't get to keep all of the ticket revenue anyway, so they'd be willing to part with some of that in exchange for the margins on prepared food like any other restaurant. Maybe a little higher, because of the slower table turnover.

      *If it isn't exactly a restaurant, it will still be something on the order of having the movie be an added feature rather than the prime attraction.

    8. Re:Supply and demand? by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --I'll give you an AMEN for that, cuz I've been saying the same thing for years.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
  24. Interesting idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is an interesting idea and I will be interested to see if it works. Personally, I probably wouldn't go for it. Few movies grab my attention enough for me to head out to a theatre. But I do know people who go a couple of times a month. For those folks this would probably be a good deal. instead of, say, two $15 tickets each month they could get away with a $20/month pass. It would save them over a hundred dollars a year.

  25. Why? by Seumas · · Score: 1

    Movie theaters serve absolutely no purpose, except as a gate through which films must pass as a delay to everyone else watching them. Unless you absolutely have to watch a movie the month it comes out, there's no reason to deal with the costs, the sticky floors, the shitty seats, the noisy assholes, the crying children, the lines, the driving there and back, the parking, the treats. Save all the money and save making it an all-night event and just watch shit at home. Maybe that wasn't feasible in the 90s, but 50" and 65" HD televisions are common place, movies are cheap to buy or rent, and the sound system that you'd want to experience could be covered after the years of money you'd save from seeing films in theaters and all the associated costs (even if you only payed $20/mo for some subscription).

    Frankly, let 'em die out and lets get on with same-day-everywhere-releases.

    Besides, at $20 and you can only see each film one time? You'd need three movies to make up for just the savings on tickets and there aren't three movies worth seeing in the theater every month.

    1. Re:Why? by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      Without movie theatres, the movie studios would merely be television stations without a channel.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    2. Re:Why? by sixsixtysix · · Score: 1

      Frankly, let 'em die out and lets get on with same-day-everywhere-releases.

      while i do agree, i realize that once their first-run cash cows die, the prices will go up in all other areas (home video/licensing/etc). then again, once they destroy the secondary market, what choice will we have?

      --
      ...
  26. tiered pricing by technosaurus · · Score: 1

    It would make sense to use a supply and demand model and start movies off at a set starting price and raise/lower the price based on attendance. More than half the seats filled (or some other threshold), raise it $1 or vice versa. Once the movie gets down to $1 (or free) it gets replaced with a different one. This model would allow for more people to afford them and even if there was a free showing, at least the studios don't get a cut of the vending revenue, so it may even be more profitable.

    If the pricing depended on how many tickets were already purchased for a given showing, it would reduce overcrowding on opening weekends while maximizing profit.

    "Lets go see if there is a free movie worth watching... Crap! Those all suck. Oh well, we are already here, wanna watch something anyways?"

  27. Cineplex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I recall Cineplex also has something similar because some of the movies listed says "No Passes." I assume this is the subscription-based movies. I also noticed that these movies will eventually loose that particular status. However, as you might have guessed from the wording, subscribers cannot watch these movies for the first X weeks from first public showing.

  28. Subscription based X = bug not feature by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    A certain (IMHO evil) business philosophy will always, with **certainty**, try to take something that people purchase and own indefinitely and make it a 'subscription-based service'...it's 100% predictable and not in any way 'innovative' or 'new'

    It's just feature bottlenecking...it's how drug dealers (and drug companies) make their money and it's ruining tech.

    If TFA is correct and the theater is in demand in the community and fails anyway, it is **bad business practices** that caused the theater to close...no 'innovation' needed, just a person with the business sense of any stall shopkeeper in an Asian market.

    American business has gotten so twisted, many businesspeople and investors really can't conceive of making a profit by any other means than the 'software as service' model. I have seen real, capital building business concepts laughed at in tech settings.

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:Subscription based X = bug not feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, if you think subscription based payment models are basically how drug dealers work you're certifiably nuts.

    2. Re:Subscription based X = bug not feature by sixsixtysix · · Score: 0

      if you think that paying the same person, at regular intervals, for pot isn't a subscription, then you're fucking high.

      --
      ...
    3. Re:Subscription based X = bug not feature by JazzLad · · Score: 1

      My grocery store is a subscription service now?

      --
      "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
  29. Subscription goal has been met by nrozema · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is my local theater.

    Last night they announced that they hit the 3,000 subscriber mark they were shooting for and will make a go at opening.

    I wish them the best, though I think there are still some very big questions to be answered about the viability of the business model. Will the studios go along with it? Will subscriptions _remain_ high enough after the buzz fades away to be a viable business? I hope so, but only time will tell. The local economy is almost entirely tourism based, and their model effectively shuts out tourists who I think will be reluctant to shell out $16 for a day pass - so long-term local support is essential.

    1. Re:Subscription goal has been met by Shoten · · Score: 2

      From the article:

      James Nelson, 30, a life coach who defines his specialty as "figuring out how to make the impossible possible," was driving back from a wealth-training seminar when his wife told him about the theater going under.

      This sounds to me like they're doomed. A 30-year-old life coach, freshly back from a "wealth-training" (aka "get rich quick") seminar when his wife tells him about this. I'm sorry, but this guy at first blush sounds like he's got no real business acumen. So I think nrozema is spot-on...sure, they have the subscribers now while the buzz is up and everyone's afraid to lose their theater. But what happens after they realize that they're all paying $20/ticket to see movies, when tourists don't go to see movies there, or if they'll be unable to get movies far enough ahead of Netflix/Redbox/cable/piracy to keep their customers?

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    2. Re:Subscription goal has been met by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Good for them. They may actually survive then.

      Day passes are a bit steep indeed, though I doubt many tourists will go to movie theatres to begin with. For a tourist there are usually much more interesting things to see/do than to go to a movie theatre which you can do just as well back home.

    3. Re:Subscription goal has been met by bogjobber · · Score: 2

      You'd be surprised, actually. I work at a ski resort and a substantial amount of people just stay inside and do normal things when they're on vacation.

    4. Re:Subscription goal has been met by Inda · · Score: 1

      I'd be that tourist and $16, when converted to my local currency, is only slightly over the cost of a single cinema ticket here.

      Here is the UK and we are rountinely ripped off.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    5. Re:Subscription goal has been met by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      They're only paying $20 per ticket if they see 1 movie per month. 2 movies, and they're at $10 per movie, which is average around me for a single ticket. If they see 4, they're at $5 per movie, in the ballpark of Blockbuster's old rental pricing and On Demand from Comcast/Cablevision. If they're really movie lovers and see 8 per month (2 per week), they're way ahead of my local price at $2.50 per movie, and getting into the ballpark of Redbox's price if you're renting each movie for 2 days.

    6. Re:Subscription goal has been met by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you are operating in a field that has existed for many decades, and your business concept is based on a 'genius' idea that no-one has used before, your chances of success are so close to zero as to be the same thing. Sure, some people succeed this way, but then again some people win the lottery too.

      Small cinemas used to exist by showing second/third run movies weeks/months/years after the film was first released. No-one wants this service any more. The window for showing a mainstream audience a movie on the big screen is pretty much the same for all theatres now. Beyond this window, people turn to cable or Netflix for their movie viewing experience.

      What complicates things is that the cinema only continues to exist because people want a simple, no-brainer way to go out in the evening. The actual film used to be of secondary concern. Unfortunately, Hollywood's most recent promotion of its business emphasises how important it is to be watching the current blockbuster within minutes of its release. No-one wants to watch the older movies that are much cheaper to show.

      Romantics, with aspirations to run a cinema, fail to appreciate how much the game has changed. Since the law was changed, decades back, to prohibit studios/distributors from owning cinemas in the USA, subsidies for cinemas serving small communities are out of the question. Perhaps the law should be changed again, so studios can treat some smaller theatres as part of the potential down-stream promotion for their new movies.

      In reality, the new model of multiplexes in areas where the demand can sustain them, and nothing at all anywhere else, is not going to change. Film-lovers don't lose out now that digital projection never comes close to the glories of 70mm film projection, and home cinema just gets better and cheaper every year. Get a home projector, paint one of your walls white, and I promise you you'll never miss the cinema again.

    7. Re:Subscription goal has been met by Shoten · · Score: 1

      They're only paying $20 per ticket if they see 1 movie per month. 2 movies, and they're at $10 per movie, which is average around me for a single ticket. If they see 4, they're at $5 per movie, in the ballpark of Blockbuster's old rental pricing and On Demand from Comcast/Cablevision. If they're really movie lovers and see 8 per month (2 per week), they're way ahead of my local price at $2.50 per movie, and getting into the ballpark of Redbox's price if you're renting each movie for 2 days.

      I don't know about you, but I consider myself a big movie-goer...and I don't find that there are many more than 12 movies I really care to see, each year. Think about it. Sure, if you see 8 movies a month, it ends up being really cheap. But are there 8 new movies every month that you want to go see? There aren't even 8 new movies every month at any cinema I've ever seen, period.

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  30. You answered your own question by raymorris · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why don't they lower the prices, you asked. You then mentioned they do lower the prices, especially on Tuesday. Weekdays cost less than weekend nights. A movie without popcorn costs a lot less than one with popcorn. Their web site has coupons. You can spend $5 going to the movie, or $25.
    Theatres are very good at letting you spend as much or as little as you want. Some people will spend $25 or more for Saturday night ticket, candy, and large soda. The theatres have pricing where they'll accept that $25 from those people. They ALSO sell to the $5 crowd, on weekdays.

  31. For me theater movies are dead long ago... by Cito · · Score: 1

    I stopped going to movies in early 90's

    around here we had 1 theater for the longest now 2, 1 shows old movies only and the other shows new movies. Problem is they jacked the price so high it costs the same price to buy the DVD that it does to buy a movie ticket.

    Tickets here are 14.99 for after 5pm 12.99 before 5pm / small drink is 3.99 / small popcorn is 4.99 / if I bring my family it's $80 for 1 movie, and I said fuck that.

    I started pirating immediately and haven't looked back, with all the spam on television and movie prices soo out of whack it's cheaper to own the movie than see it in theaters, I still buy blurays of movies I really enjoy for the extras. But I now enjoy pirated movies on my big screen with my family, we make our own snacks and enjoy together. And for the economy as is, sorry to say it's about the only way.

    I wouldn't watch new movies if there was no alternative.

    Plus movies have changed over the decades, if you look back 50s, 60s, 70s, and even into the 80's going out to the movies was a social event, many people even dressed up went out to dinner and to a movie and it was a social event.

    but the 90's and 2000's culture environment has sorta turned to more intimate settings, people want more privacy, and we deal with people annoying us all day long in work spaces we want our entertainment to be a bit more intimate in the new decades.

    So now watching first run movies at home instead of going to theaters is becoming the norm. Who wants to go spend the same price to buy the dvd that a ticket costs and have to put up with so many people? noise, lip smacking, crunching, coughs, snorts, sneezes, whispers, glow of lcd's, giggles, talking back to screen, talking in general... fuck that

    ill pirate from now on, until they offer first run movies in the home on a streaming basis that is affordable and streaming the 1 movie once does not cost as much as the fucking dvd then I'll reconsider.

    1. Re:For me theater movies are dead long ago... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i think it started to turn more intimate with the advent of home video. it is now good enough to not even have theaters, but when that cash cow dies, the prices will only go up on home theater media/streaming.

  32. New Years Resolution by GrBear · · Score: 0

    After my mate and I went to see The Hobbit in IMAX and being charged $65 ($20x2 tickets & $25 for popcorn and drinks) I've sworn off going to see another movie in a theater again. I'm tired of paying for the privilege of someone kicking the back of my cramped seat, and people texting during a movie.

    Instead I'll download the bluray rip and play it on XMBC on my big screen. The downfall of theaters is their own doing, and I say good riddance.

  33. Not Quite Yet... by kid_wonder · · Score: 2

    If they rolled out a way for people to watch films the day they're released on their home theater for $10, it'd be huge.

    http://primacinema.com/

    $35k plus $500 a pop ...

    --

    "Oh, you hate your job? There's a support group for that, it's called everyone, they meet at the bar."
    1. Re:Not Quite Yet... by madhi19 · · Score: 1

      I heard about that and to make it work you either have to be filthy rich and don't care about the cost and or have a very large family... But I could so see one of these rich gated community invest in one of those for their daycare centre/community room.

  34. theaters need to band together by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    maybe theaters need to band together and get more than they do for screenings, so they could pay for said equipment. we all know they make the majority of their money from concessions. i once emailed nato (national organization of theater owners) but got no reply. i'd wager than hollywood makes most of its money from first runs, so they do need the theaters as much as the theaters need them. i'd also like to see more alcohol-serving theaters.

  35. My 2cents by donweel · · Score: 1

    I grew up on movies in movie theatres. There is no comparison to movies at home no matter what kind of money you spent. 2001 a Space Odessa in the Stanley theatre, Apocalypse Now in the same theatre renovated to Lucas Thx, and Star Wars in iMax. Not to mention Drive In movies, I feel sorry for todays generation that will never know that experience. I myself have abandoned movie theatres, mostly because of rudeness, people using cell phones silly conversation, etc, and for me the last straw was car commercials inserted before the main feature. I was so angry at paying full price for the movie and also expected to submit to brainwashing that I never returned.

    --
    Many a long talk since then I have had with the man in the moon; he had my confidence on the voyage. Joshua Slocum
  36. Gimme old movies by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    I've had this idea for a while. Set up a theather that shows old movies. I've talked to quite a few peiple and a lot of people would love to see shows they missed in the movie theather when they were kids or teenages or whatever. I got the idea when thinking how cool it would have been to see Hackers on the big screen.

    I'm sure the movie studios wouldn't go for it, can't take their cashflow from the new shit that passes for a movie these days.

    Or a pirate movie theather. Rent out a small warehouse/shop set up a nice projector and audio system then invite people to see the shows.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:Gimme old movies by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Neither of these things are new ideas. Lots of theaters exist which show old movies. I fondly remember asking a drunk girl if she'd like a big glass of shut the hell up at a midnight showing of Raiders of the Lost Ark at the Rio in Santa Cruz. I do remember what it was like to be a teenager, though.

      As for pirate theater, you want to go as cheap as possible on that one. You can score a projector for around $400 that will do the job now, use any old laptop with a sound card (USB or PC card) with optical output and run that into a discrete decoder, then run the outputs into whatever cheap amplifier modules you can come up with. Set it all up to run off a deep cycle battery or two, do it with automotive equipment as much as possible for durability. You can get inflatable screens now, but it shouldn't take much imagination to come up with a good roll-up either, I suggest starting with blackout cloth. But don't rent a fixed location if you're going to do that. It's the very definition of criminal copyright infringement, and there's money in it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Gimme old movies by neminem · · Score: 1

      Hey, a Santa Cruzian! My first thought at seeing the parent comment was also Rio midnight movies. I haven't lived there in years, but I still remember them, they were lots of fun. Of course, being that they were at midnight, I probably wouldn't ever go to one anymore anyway... (I remember being a teenager, too. When midnight was a perfectly reasonable time to go see a movie with friends.)

    3. Re:Gimme old movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've never lived until you've watched Kevin Costner in Waterworld projected onto the sail of a trimaran anchored on the beach of Clipper Cove in San Francisco Bay. Our community-owned sailboat Solara sometimes hosts impromptu "sail in movie theater" nights set up just as you describe for local pirates. Loads of fun!

  37. PPV is cheaper and better by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    On Directv with a DRV is nice new movies are pushed to the drv they are in 1080P with no ad's and FULL DVR control.

  38. Exists in France.. by Archon-X · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Both big cinema conglomerates In France still do this, and have for years.
    Unlimited movies in all cinemas. No blackout times. 20EU per month, or 35EU per month for a couple.

    It's a great idea, and lots of people use it - considering normal adult tickets are 10 - 12EU.

    The 'gotchya' is that it's a pain in the ass to unsubscribe - it's auto-debited from your bank account each month, so to cancel you need to send a letter via registered post etc to close your membership.

    Small price to pay, however!

    1. Re:Exists in France.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both big cinema conglomerates In France still do this, and have for years.
      Unlimited movies in all cinemas. No blackout times. 20EU per month, or 35EU per month for a couple.

      It's a great idea, and lots of people use it - considering normal adult tickets are 10 - 12EU.

      The 'gotchya' is that it's a pain in the ass to unsubscribe - it's auto-debited from your bank account each month, so to cancel you need to send a letter via registered post etc to close your membership.

      Small price to pay, however!

      This is also the case in Germany, at least where I live (although the numbers are a bit lower for regular tickets). Definitely not a new thing.

  39. I want the cinemas to die... by mseeger · · Score: 1

    I wish the cinemas would finally drop dead. Perhaps then i would get the movies on DVD/Blu-Ray at the release date. I sincerely dislikes cinemas.

    Why shell i watch a movie at a fixed times with several (sometimes unpleasent) strangers in a room that cannot compete with my living room in terms of comfiness? To purchase overprices soda? To have a very, very small collections of food stuff to buy? To get the brother of Hulk sitting in front of you and block 20% of the image?

    Picture quality and sound at home can compete with 90% of all cinemas and i have enough space for my friends to join.

    1. Re:I want the cinemas to die... by JazzLad · · Score: 1

      Look forward to Blu-Ray discs costing over $100 the week a movie comes out.

      --
      "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
    2. Re:I want the cinemas to die... by mseeger · · Score: 1

      I don't think so (i would expect them to cost $50). But even if: then it would be my choice.

  40. Cinema changes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my home city there are two cinemas - a big chain multiplex (Cineworld) and a small 2-screen art-house type cinema (The Light House). I have a subscription to the chain cinema (£15 - roughly $23 - per month) and only have to see two movies a month for it to pay for itself (often doing that in just one day). The Light House cinema has recently had to raise funds to upgrade their projection equipment (from digital+film in one theatre and just film in the other to digital support in both). With an increasing amount of films being made available digitally, it wasn't possible for them to show the films they'd like to, when they wanted to, because they often had two new releases both being digital. Even with my subscription at the bigger cinema, I try to go to the smaller one for three main reasons: 1) you get films that just don't turn up at the multiplex; 2) you don't get as many idiots in there (playing on their phone, talking through the film, kicking seats, etc.); 3) you can take the beer you bought in the bar into the theatre.
    I hope the poster's cinema subscription idea is succesful, but I know just how hard it can be to get such a large number of people to commit to going to a cinema.

  41. DeVry doing accounting courses now? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    But because dues are collected monthly, fixed costs are piad.

    Interesting. So if my rent is 2000 per month and I get 11 subscribers @ 20 each the rest is gravy?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  42. They will be out of business in a year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or less.

  43. The Media Industry Would Never Go For It by Bittoman · · Score: 1

    Given the tight control Hollywood and other studios have on governing movie theaters and their sales I do not see this being something they will go for. Hollywood uses 'box office smash' sales numbers to advertise. A subscription model will not benefit that.

    --
    "Build It And They Will Come." Field Of Dreams
  44. Supply and demand is dismal science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is that movie theaters seem to be about the only business that not only doesn't understand or even attempt to follow supply and demand with their pricing of both the attractions and the food, but seem to publicly admit that they don't think supply/demand makes sense?... If they would lower prices of everything, tickets and refreshments/food, they'd see way more people, and way more money, come their way.

    Economics, the "dismal science", imagines demand curves as static. In the real world, changes in demand in response to price changes are not instantaneous, but occur over time. The movie theater changes its $7 ticket to a $12 ticket and the next day they have the same audience. People who plan a night out at the movies usually don't turn and walk away when faced with the sudden price change at the door. But next week/month when considering a night out at the movies, they recall the higher movie price and prefer a comparably-priced alternative. The theater owner, not seeing an immediate drop-off in attendance is pleased by the imagined lack of demand elasticity - that price hike was a "success." He doesn't link the price increase to the slow drop-off in attendance over the next year - that's just "people aren't going to the movies anymore." (Same effect on price cuts also, if complicated by advertising shocks.)

    Beancounters need to hire folk who grok dynamic systems - simple-minded static spreadsheets lead to pricing "death spirals."

  45. Movie Pass by Stephenmg · · Score: 1

    This kind of sounds like Moviepass only moviepass is better because it works at almost all theater chains. I pay $35/month (price varies depending on location) and can see any movie once, one per movie day. www.moviepass.com. My referral link: http://movi.ps/Tudu57 I get a free month if I get 3 people to sign up. Its worth it it me, but wouldn't be worth it to everyone. We also have a new Alamo Drafthouse that took over an old AMC theater in an entertainment district in Kansas City. They have an interesting model that seems to be breaking away from normal theaters. They show cult classics, saw a Back to the Future marathon last night, reserved seating, and all dine in theaters. They also are very strict about talking and texting during movies which I love. Theaters are going to have to do new things to get people to spend money.

  46. What's the alternative? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Subject: Movie Theaters are dying for the same reason

    Payphone booths and arcades are. Plain and simple. Too many other options.

    I'll be more willing to accept your illustration if you plug the leaks. What's the alternative to a movie theater if you don't want to have to avoid spoilers for a year while waiting for a movie to come out on home video and pay-per-view? What's the alternative to a phone booth for calling a cab if you don't spend hundreds of dollars per year for a cell phone plan or for stripping off your mundane clothes to reveal your superhero uniform? What's the alternative to an arcade for lag-free multiplayer or for trying games that use expensive specialized controllers?

    Rent 3-6 month old movies at Redbox for a little over a buck

    3-6 months? Hop wasn't at Redbox until about 13 months after theatrical release.

  47. Assumptions? You're assuming. by SuperBanana · · Score: 1

    You're assuming that only one person watches the TV, and that every movie goer lives in walking distance of the theatre. Face it, we have a TV anyhow. Then subtract the cost of going to a movie theatre, including tickets, concession prices versus home prices, travel, and extra time.

    You're assuming that "we" have a TV. I don't, and I'm hardly alone; many people have a junky old CRT TV, mostly for news. Many don't have any sort of cable TV beyond the minimum included with internet service (mostly the local broadcast stations.) It costs me nothing to travel to the theater, because I already have a monthly transit pass I use for commuting. It's a 30 minute trip each way, but only because I live in one of the outlying areas; if I lived in almost any other part of the city, it'd be a 15 minute trip.

    I spend less than $200/year on movies, and that's seeing at least one film a month. I estimate I'd have to see nearly 50 movies a year for two years to match the cost of a home system, and I'd piss off the neighbors if I turned it up as loud as a theater.

    1. Re:Assumptions? You're assuming. by bkr1_2k · · Score: 1

      Now multiply that by how many people are in your family (sounds like 1 for you) and you start to get the "real cost" of going to a theater for most people. I have 3 kids plus me and my wife. Your ~$200/yr now comes to ~$1000. The math changes significantly for families.

      That said, I still think this is a great option for a lot of people, especially families. I'd jump on this subscription if it was available near me. Makes for a great "kids go watch this movie, mom and dad are going to watch that movie" once the kids are old enough to handle themselves... or in situations like mine where there's a 16 year age gap between the youngest and oldest.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
  48. The benefits of commercial theater: by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    o Expensive, limited snacks
    o Crying children
    o The slob next to you, sneezing out his disease for you to inhale
    o idiots with cellphones
    o inability to pause, coupled with missing stuff when you take a whiz
    o the need to meet someone else's schedule instead of your own
    o uncomfortable seating with 1 arm per person
    o sitting with people... you wouldn't choose to meet
    o sitting through local commercials
    o getting your shoes washed with coke when the moron behind you spills theirs
    o standing in line
    o spending money to benefit someone else
    o "bragging" rights because you saw something a little bit earlier
    o No media copy for you
    o no replays
    o no showing friends and family
    o no resale value
    o no subtitles
    o no special features
    o no image adjustment

    ...other than that, well, hell yeah!

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  49. Some movies need a big screen. Some do not. by sjbe · · Score: 1

    On the other hand, for shitty movies, its ridiculous to even contemplate watching them in a theater, no matter the price.

    Speaking for myself, it isn't just "shitty" movies that I don't bother to see in a theater. I go to the theater to see movies where the visuals and special effects are enhanced by a big screen. Action movies, sci-fi, etc. I see little point in going to a theater for some chick-flick emo sob fest that could be equally enjoyed at home on my TV.

    Honestly though, once I can afford a 70+ inch HDTV for home I doubt I'll go to the movies much after that...

  50. Re:far, far away. by Dareth · · Score: 1

    You mean not until the next Shrek movie?

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  51. Quit trying to gouge people by Archfeld · · Score: 1

    The theatre in Yuma AZ, charges $5.00 for adults and $4.00 for seniors and youths, sells all you can eat/drink popcorn and sodas for $2.50, all the while showing top of the line flicks and packing the house daily. The theatre I sometimes go to in Concord CA, charges $9.50 to $12.00 and an arm and a leg for a kernel of popcorn and a thimble of soda, and is deserted even on Friday nights. Seems like there is a lesson to be learned about the economics of supply and demand, but corporations are very slow learners...

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  52. Re:far, far away. by arth1 · · Score: 1

    You mean not until the next Shrek movie?

    More like the next Slade album...

  53. a very good option for theaters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last year, I went to a big screen theater to see a one time showing of one of my most revered movies - "Singin' in the Rain".
    The place was PACKED!!!!

    I had always seen it on the small screen, as it is "older" than I am. These are the kind of movies I would LOVE to see on the big screen. Older movies that are classics.

    jdawg