Slashdot Mirror
Teens Drug Parents To Get Web Access
linuxwrangler writes "Two teens are behind bars after hatching a plan that involved drugging milkshakes they gave to the parents of one of the kids. The parents were suspicious after waking groggy the next day, and used a home drug-test on one of the remaining drinks. The teens came up with the plan in order to avoid their 10pm Internet curfew."
brings all the web to the night, damn right.
She drugs her parents to surf the web......... I'm guessing video games will get blamed for this.
Any bets they will get web access in the juvenile detention centre?
the groggy feeling of being drugged the night before, or that knowing your daughter doesn't have a problem doing stuff like this to you.
Be seeing you...
Control freak parents or not the kids were under their roof so their word was law.
It's been that way ever since the days of cave men.
If the kids don't like those rules they should get jobs and earn some of their own freedom.
It's not right for a parent to adjudicate who is allowed to use the Internet that *THEY* pay for?
Really, if the kid wants their own internet, they should get themselves emancipated and move out.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Control freak parents or not the kids were under their roof so their word was law.
Well, there are definitely limits there. But imposing a 22:00 Internet curfew is well within the bounds.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
They fell asleep and were groggy the next day from 1/4 of the milkshake. Suppose they'd drunk the whole thing. They might be dead by now. Sorry, but I can't side with the kids on this. While I doubt the juvenile justice system is going to do them much good, what they did is definitely outside the bounds of acceptable behavior and should be considered criminal.
If I were the parents, I'd wait until they were convicted, then discuss sentencing options and see about making sure the harm is minimized. They deserve a really good scare and to see just how coldly the system can treat them for their incredibly outrageous and entitled behavior.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
It was only sleeping medicine, jesus... they acted like their kid and her friend slipped them cyanide.
What if one of them decided to drive to the corner store?
What if one of them decided to have a glass of wine before bed... maybe a cold beer?
What if they actually finished the shakes?
What if the parents are taking conflicting prescriptions?
What if they were taking the same prescription meds they were slipped?
What if one of them was allergic to the drug?
I could continue, but I think you can understand what the problem is.
I know this is an old peeve, but still: this story is about kids drugging parents to get $THING. Is it on /. only because $THING == Internet?
This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
If they had been slipped cyanide, they wouldn't be acting like anything. They'd be dead.
Drugging somebody against their will is a rather serious crime, and there is no doubt this was premeditated, making it almost on par with attempted murder. In many jurisdictions, the victim of a crime of this severity might be allowed to request that charges be dropped, but it is still up to prosecuting attorney to actually do so. If the prosecuting attorney thinks that the crime is too severe to allow the perpetrator to go unpunished, and, subjectively, especially if there is no indication of repentance on the part of the perpetrator, then the charges will stand. A judge will determine what actual sentence is appropriate.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The problem is though, controlling a child in silly ways like an "internet curfew" when they are teenagers isn't productive and leads to deeper problems.
Of course there are times to be firm and times to be unyielding, namely when a child's safety is at stake. But silly things like an "internet curfew" will simply lead to the kid resenting their parents.
I think back to when I was in college, those with very strict and controlling parents usually ended up being the kids who drank heavily and skipped class and ended up having strained relations with their family. On the other hand, those with parents who were more rational and let their kids realize that staying up until 4 AM on the phone on weeknights lead to a miserable school day the next day rather than imposing a "phone curfew" ended up being more responsible.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Ah, had to RTFA and watch the damn video... but apparently it was a drug test kit from the police station.
It's on America's tortured brow, That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
"drug testing kit"
Yeah no. I don't think the average dipshit would have any idea how to get ahold of that. And any they WOULD get ahold of. Are not going to 'detect' any sleeping medication the average teen could even get ahold of.
Home drug tests are MADE to test for things the average teen could get ahold of. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=where+to+buy+home+drug+test
Let alone who the hell keeps a milkshake around overnight.
Someone who was drugged after taking a couple sips? Being knocked out gets in the way of stuff like throwing away milkshakes. Pity the kids didn't have the foresight to throw it away themselves, but then again, what can you except from kids who drug their parents to check facebook after curfew?
This story sounds 100% made up. The media will eat it up tho. But not too much. It's too fake.
Try harder.
A few years ago, some people I know figured out that their teen-aged son was setting an alarm clock for 2:00 in the morning, and getting up and playing StarCraft on the Internet for a few hours and then going back to bed.
They weren't sure what was up, for a while, but they did notice he seemed like he wasn't well rested and his school teachers were noticing as well. He wasn't an A+ student to start with and this really wasn't helping his grades.
Hmm, maybe Blizzard should have made an ad featuring him. "StarCraft: it's better than sleep!"
Most modern wireless routers can be set to block internet automatically at a certain time of night for select devices in the house based on either IP address or MAC address. No reason to fight about it every night with the kids - set an automatic policy and communicate the policy. Simple.
Except for the fact that you don't have your kid arrested.
Yeah, there's blame on both sides of the aisle. Yes, it was a pretty stupid thing to do to your parents, yes it was dangerous, reckless even. But to take it to court is basically to ensure that your kids have no future. Either because they turn to a life of crime after being released from jail (the US "justice" system isn't designed to provide for a bright future after release) or they become basically unemployable and live a life of poverty due to a criminal record.
There is absolutely nothing good that can come out of this situation.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Drugging people is serious. Please don't become a parent...
um, no.
it's 10, go to bed.
go. to. bed.
no, you can't surf the internet. no, you can't stay up texting.
go. to. bed.
reasonable.
(ironic captcha: syringes)
It's a bedtime. Who didn't have that when they where a child?
The problem is though, controlling a child in silly ways like an "internet curfew" when they are teenagers isn't productive and leads to deeper problems.
It isn't out of the line, if the kid tends to stay up all ours of the night playing online. Or their school work suffers because they're sleepy in the morning.
"I am not a doctor"
It shows.
The line between a dose that will reliably put a random person out against their will and what can shut down breathing or perhaps cause vomit aspiration is famously thin when you don't know about drug interactions, medical conditions, if they drank a couple beers on the way home, etc. etc.
If they'd drank the whole thing, maybe they'd have been alright, but then again maybe not.
Drugging a person is a serious violation of their body. The fact that the drug wasn't lethal makes it a less serious crime, but it's still a serious crime.
To say that the kids will have no future is an exaggeration, but the parents here are basically naive and it's
a common kind of naivete. I remember a story where the parent thought that their kid making out while under 16
with their friend was something that the child services would best take care of. Result: statutory rape charges
and a sexual offender record for the rest of kids' lives.
I think everyone should go to state or even federal prison for a week. It should be akin to compulsory civics lesson.
Things would change real quick once that policy was in place. First of all, adults wouldn't be so fucking naive.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
I am not a doctor, but all medications come in varying dosages. We don't exactly know the whole story here, so stop making assumptions.
My bet here is that something was seriously wrong in this household, and the teen was acting out in the only way she knew how.
It seems funny how you can assume that " the teen was acting out in the only way she knew how" based on the girl drugging the parents but not that the dosage in the shake might have been lethal based on the effect of 1/4 of the dose. If you are against assumptions the you are against all assumptions. Sorry but you can not pick and choose.
The parents were being vindictive, that's the only explanation.
Yet another assumption. Another explanation might be they were great parents at the end of their rope with a daughter who has no boundaries. We do not know the whole story..
I went to a college fairly close (although far enough away that most students got apartments rather than live at home) to my high school to get my basic education requirements out of the way before transferring to a state college for my major. Because of that I knew a lot of people because I'd gone to high school with them (and Jr. High, and middle school, and elementary school) and so yes, I knew them and knew which ones had overly strict parents and which ones didn't. And naturally being at college I knew which ones got wasted every night and which ones didn't.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
A nice plate of Exlax brownies should solve the problem. It has the added benefit of them being afraid of asking for dessert. Just slip a few in their lunch bags so they kick in right around the time of the big Physics test.
Ever heard of a sealed or expunged juvenile file? As ling as it is handled in juvenile court it may disappear. There may be hoops to jump through but if this is the only mark on their record when they tirn 18 it will probably go away.
What the fuck kind of parents are you people?
Parents who hold teenagers responsible for activities that would kill. There is a line between mischief and harm and the teenagers went very far across it. Do you really believe that anyone over 13 doesn't know that overdoses can kill?
Fuck yea. This is not bad behavior - this is sociopathic behavior. Anyway they will be punished as a juvenile so the consequences aren't as permanent as you are trying to make it out to be. Certainly not as permanent as allowing this sociopathic behavior to get worse.
What if the parents did nothing and a couple of years later their or their neighbor's kid does something that kills or seriously injures someone? If you found out that the parents allowed this action to go unchecked/unreported then you would be screaming about how irresponsible the parents were and how they should be held accountable for their child's actions.
The parents did good. They were being parents. Being a parent is not always trying to be your child's best friend - it's doing what is best for your child regardless how unpopular it makes you feel.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
There's home drug tests that test for an asslode of stuff. When I was in high school, the folks had one in their bathroom that tested urine for:
Amphetamines
Benzos
Cocaine
PCP
Ketamine
Opiates
MDMA
MDA
2C-B
Alcohol
THC
Amphetamines, Benzos and Opiates are all widely prescribed in the US, and are all fairly easy to get out of unattended medicine cabinets, if one knows whose parents suffer from what.
Hectice, baby, Mercator says hello to you
So, immediately everyone is going to talk about how this girl is a selfish facebook-generation twat, and how this is so terrible, and how she needs to be slapped down with the law, etc. While there's a chance that this is all true, I'd like you to consider for a moment other possibilities.
I grew up with abusive and controlling parents. I have been whipped with a belt. I have had all my belongings locked up in crates in other rooms, being given back to me when I "earned it" (which never seemed to happen). I have had my toys thrown in the fireplace because I couldn't clean them up fast enough. I've had the power to the entire house cut nightly because it was curfew time. I've had my bed and my car sold out from under me because it was decided that they were taking up too much space.
It is not normal teenage behavior to drug your parents: this is an extreme action. You may choose to believe that she is extremely entitled and potentially psychopathic, but other extremes are also possible. As a general rule, it would be nice if people reserved their judgement until they had all the details.
Does it not surprise anyone else that one of their first thoughts was to drug test the milkshake?
I can not possibly imagine waking up groggy and at any point thinking 'Was I drugged?!?!?!'
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
That's horrible logic. Parents are there to set the standards, provide an example and when appropriate hold children accountable. Your logic is akin to letting your 2 year old reach for the stove, because, "If they're fire proof, they wont burn. And if they burn, well, they wont do that again."
says an anonymous 12 year old ;)
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
"I am not a doctor"
It shows.
The line between a dose that will reliably put a random person out against their will and what can shut down breathing or perhaps cause vomit aspiration is famously thin when you don't know about drug interactions, medical conditions, if they drank a couple beers on the way home, etc. etc.
Well, it does depend on the drug. Ketamine for instance will knock people out (welcome to the K-hole!) but the risk of overdosing is minimal since it actually increases blood pressure and doesn't depress breathing. For that reason it's a preferred anesthetic for less than ideal situations (battlefield, triage center, disaster areas) because it is damn hard to accidentally kill someone with it, but damn easy to knock them out reliably.
slipping drugs of any form into your parents body is far from a dumb stunt.
A dumb stunt would be someting like giving your parent a gag glass with a bottom that slips off or something. NOT something body-altering.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
There are plenty of Over the Counter drugs you could take that would knock you out fairly quickly with 1/4 the dose and have no noticeably different effect with 4 times the dose.
Benadryl comes to mind as a drug thats safe to use to knock many things out without harm even with wildly different dosages. Pretty much any antihistamine for that matter.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Excellent, a reward foe endangering their parent's lives because they do not agree with a rule. Let's teach them that no matter how trivial your needs are you are allowed to do anything to get it; even endanger people's lives. As long as it is resourceful it is OK. That's really what we want to teach our kids.
Here here!
YOU. DON'T. DRUG. PEOPLE.
These tards talking like it was a prank either don't have kids, or shouldn't.
Responsible parents make sure that their kids learn basic decency, like never ever drugging people. This is not a "good scotsman" fallacy, it is blunt reality. Letting this slip would be a major failure at parenting.
Yes, you should say you shouldn't do it but do you think that a teenager knows that if you don't get enough sleep you wake up tired? And don't you think that a teenager knows that if you're tired you won't be as focused? A two year old is completely different than a teenager.
What ends up happening in so many households is that when kids don't have natural consequences for their actions they start viewing the parent as the problem. The action is viewed as consequence-free when the parent is removed. This leads to rebellion when the parent is removed (such as college) and destructive habits reign supreme because in the absence of someone saying that you can't do that, in their mind such an action is free of consequences.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Exactly. And THAT should be the punishment. If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem? If they're tired in the morning and end up having a horrible day because of it, chances are they're going to go to bed earlier so they don't get tired.
Been watching 60's sitcoms where kids learn from their mistakes have you? "Awww geee... I'm really cranky today, Ma and Pa were right when they said that would happen. i'd better go to bed early tonight like the good little child I am."
Left to their own devices, teenagers will often only make decisions that are in their best interests in the very short term. "I was really cranky all today because I stayed up late last night and it's 10pm now so I should go to bed but i've just got my second wind and feel great now so I won't".
That's what parents are for. I've had a bunch of people tell me their fantastical ideas about parenting... not saying "no" to their child, letting them do whatever they want and learning from their mistakes, etc, but for the most part it seems to be an excuse to never actually do any real parenting.
I am not a doctor, but all medications come in varying dosages. We don't exactly know the whole story here, so stop making assumptions.
This assumption goes both ways. If you intentionally drug someone, you have to assume it could be dangerous. And guess what, it usually is - there are very few prescription drugs where an overdose doesn't have some serious side effects. And sleep medications are usually not intended to knock you on your ass, but to aid sleep. If they woke up with a nasty hangover it's OBVIOUSLY more than the standard dose already.
And you clearly don't have kids, let alone teens with serious behavioral problems. What are they supposed to do, laugh it off? Or punish her by cutting off her Internet access? Yeah, that would be a great idea. Better make her taste all your food first.
Apparently, civilization has been receding for the last 30 years.
That is very possible. Not much has been happening in art, literature, or philosophy over that time.
It could be that we have become a culture of entertainment, not caring about much but having fun and feeling good.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Actually I would have my lawyer discuss with the DA a deal that involves involuntary commitment with reasonable terms to a mental health facility in lieu of conviction and formal sentencing. This way my child has no choice but to seek professional help and the parents of my child's friend will have no choice but to do the same.
If my child acted alone, I would most likely not press charges and just seek professional help. However if I was in the same situation as these parents, I probably would turn my child over to the authorities. Not because I think I need the state to get involved with my parenting, but because chances are pretty damn good that the friend put my child (in the story the friend provided the sleeping pills) up to this and I need the state to force the friend's parent to seek help. Besides the DA would probably take the plea deal in exchange for testimony against the child that provided the prescription drugs.
Regardless of the uncomfortable situation the parents found themselves in, ignoring the problem and hoping the behavior improves doesn't seem a viable option.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
And, seriously, they just put their kid behind bars. I bet they think that'll teach 'em.
I bet it would. Kids do something excessive, they deserve an excessive lesson in return. It's one thing to lie, whine, or manipulate. It's another entirely to poison/drug - especially for so stupid a reason.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
You're kidding, right? I can walk to my local Walgreens (a drugstore) and get kits to test for Marijuana, Cocaine and at least one other "common" drug, I forget which. I was floored to see that, right there, at the pharmacy counter. In fact, there's a few different tests now. Back when I was a kid, you have to have bloodwork done. Now it's a take-home kit, OTC and readily available.
. Define sqrt(x) as something really evil like (x / rand()), and bury it deep. Watch your coworkers go nuts.
... and how, pray tell, does that ruin anyone's lives? I'm almost 30 now and I've not even been arrested, let alone been in a court.
As well it shouldn't be ignored. The fuckers poisoned the parents. It's one thing to hide it from people who don't really need to know, it's another to make it go away entirely.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
If I were the parents, I wouldn't have had my own children arrested, or put them in a position to be arrested. I would have handled the situation privately and discretely, disciplining as necessary.
May not have a choice. If they were feeling bad enough to get checked out by a medical professional (and I must say, I'd probably get checked out if I found out I'd been drugged!), and that professional reported the situation to the police (which is mandatory in many jurisdictions for cases of this nature) then the police may have pressed charges regardless of the parent's wishes. In many cases of domestic violence (which this is included in) the victim does not have any say in whether charges are laid. This is because far too many victims are reluctant to press charges against a loved one, even in cases of ongoing abuse. The fact that this case is about a kid poisoning a parent doesn't make it any different than a case of a husband beating a wife, or vice-versa, it still qualifies as domestic violence. The police get involved as soon as anyone finds out, and from that point onward the decision on whether to press charges is out of the parent's hands.
If my kid drugged me? You bet your ass they would be. It's not just a dumb stunt. They could have done some serious damage.
If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem?
The problem is threefold: (1) It is not healthy to stay up so long playing WoW; it is not a normal activity, and the only benefit is entertainment with significant negatives -- it is a nasty habit to get into, that can have serious consequences over time, due to sleep deprivation, and potential psychological issues due to emerging addictive/obsessive game playing behavior. As a parent, I would want the best for my kid; therefore, behaviors that are likely to result in unhealthy habits are intolerable. It would be just as unacceptable as it would be for them to stay out that late drinking or partying.
Staying up late that night on rare occasion might be OK, but not to continue a game to the 9th hour or longer.
(2) The child would seem to be playing one game for an excessively long period - if staying up until 5 AM -- this has negative social ramifications. Diversity of activities are important. Watching TV, playing computer games, or surfing the web, for more than a few hours a day: unacceptable. For the teenage to learn to survive and mature, it is important, that they be exposed to a more diverse experience, which means productive or intellectual activities besides playing WoW are not optional.
(3) Playing WoW is not productive. If the child has that much free time available that they are willing to be awake so long, then the greatest percentage of it must be used in a productive pursuit -- either pursuing educational activities, such as reading books, and specifically nonfiction, OR pursuing a productive activity that improves skills/abilities, or earns money.
The chance that they are BOTH productive and play WoW that long are basically negligible, so it is a safe thing to say, if they play WoW that long, it is reasonable to disallow them use of the computer.
(4) Parent provides the internet connection. This is a shared resource, and they need to learn to share, which means not utilizing it 24x7. It is reasonable for the parent to say "You must always stop using it at 10 and go to bed"
[* Time after 10pm is Parents' porn-watching leisure time]
Something does seem truly odd about the parents seeking prosecution of their own teenage child.
A girl that drugs her parents, probably wasn't an angel before. Sounds like a very thick and very heavy last straw.
There is a stage, when kids are completely out of control, that many parents consider getting the law involved is the best thing not just for them, but for the child too.
As a child, sure. Not as a teen though. Curfew but not a bedtime.
My parents were FAR from controlling, yet the whole way through highschool my sister and I were told many times how late we could stay up.
Exactly. And THAT should be the punishment. If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem? If they're tired in the morning and end up having a horrible day because of it, chances are they're going to go to bed earlier so they don't get tired.
I'll make a wild guess that you don't have many teenagers at home, except maybe yourself. Rational thinking isn't of much use with teenagers, almost by definition.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
I'm a philosopher, actually. If that should answer your questions about my moral compass. And speaking of, it is rather difficult to know what true north is when each person's compass points in a different direction.
My comment was tongue in cheek. But as with all humor it has its own bit of truth.
It is resourceful and clever, at least for their age; this you cannot deny. Now, should these children be jailed? Most certainly not. Because it is not the crime that is of importance; rather it is the motive. Now clearly, they wished to stay up past bedtime and continue playing on the internet... Or computer. This begs a number of questions that keeps me from jumping into the ring of people eager to grab pitchforks. For instance...
Why were the children so eager to stay online that they resorted to drugging the parents?
What is the relationship between the child and her parents?
How did she conceive of this plan?
There are any number of explanations for this. Abusive and authoritarian parents can bring this sort of behavior on themselves. Or perhaps the girl is partially psychopathic, and only did what she deemed was logical (I should point out that being a psychopath is not a crime).
In the end, however, there is work to be done. And not by jailers nor judges, but by psychologists and people qualified. Jailing the child actually might just create even more friction between her and her parents, making a problematic rift even greater.
Your employer, credit bureau, and many other organizations can't see it or even know it exists. There has to be a reason for someone to look for and ask a judge for a sealed record to be unsealed. Using a juvenile record in court means that the person has been accused of another crime. It does not happen when applying for a job and therefore does not effect one's career so the GP's statement about the teenager being permanently condemned is false. So the only thing a juvenile record "condemns" someone to is not be charged with another crime or it may come back to haunt them(as it should).
I guess you haven't read this document. Here is a quote from it:
Instead of being sentenced to state prison, many defendants will be serving their "prison" term in county jail.
The juveniles are also not in County Jail but Placer County Juvenile Hall along with other juveniles. That looks like a very scary place. We have no information whether or not they have been released to or bailed out by their parents. Lets wait till things pan out before condemning the parents over what might or might not happen.
Maybe this will be a wake up call for a couple pf entitled teens and may even turn their lives around.
The "miserable school day" is no consequence to most teenagers. They generally don't care. They will just sleep through class anyway or skip it all together. Many teenagers see no further than the next date or party and generally don't care whether or not they pass.
I agree that there are some parents who are control freaks. They dictate everything in their children's lives and the children rebel. There are also parents who set no boundaries for their children and the children act up just to be noticed. Both extremes have the same consequences; children that act out. There is a balance between those extremes where a child has both freedoms and constraints. Most teenagers do not yet have the mental capacity to understand the consequences of failing school. That is what parents are for. I think requiring a juvenile to not contact friends after bedtime so they get a good night sleep and have the capacity to learn in school is reasonable.
They fell asleep and were groggy the next day from 1/4 of the milkshake. Suppose they'd drunk the whole thing. They might be dead by now.
I would not have hesitated to kill my parents in such a way if I had thought about it as child. My parents are lucky to be alive today. I am a bad person who was treated very badly.
I would not kill them now as I do not have to suffer under them any more... but they lay on their deathbeds from old age now and I do not move a finger to help them. You reap what you sow. It does not make me smile though. I wait for my own death so this chapter in history can be wiped forever from the books. My own children have no idea... and they never will.
I do not side with the kids on this one either, but I can easily see how it can happen. The entire family is better off dead than subjecting the rest of society to their fucked up control and rebellion issues.
Hate. It is what is for breakfast.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
False dilemma.
I frequently pull all nighters to play video games. There is nothing wrong with that.
This is just entertainment. I don't see how it is worse than spending the night reading books.
Most teenagers understand the consequences in an academic sense, but most have not yet developed the self control to handle the consequences of their actions. This is why in the eyes of the law, you are not viewed as fully accountable for your actions until you are 18. It is also why parents must provide the structure and discipline for their teens - even if they fight it. They will not provide it for themselves and end up being those people that have no jobs, leech off others and do nothing but watch reality tv all day.
In what way are you a philosopher? Do you lecture in philosophy? Have you published philosophical books? If you have merely studied philosophy or read some philosophical texts that does not make you a philosopher.
I'm going to take issue with what you wrote. Because of the way you've blended several different ideas together in your post this make take a little while.
1) An understanding of philosophy is no indicator of ones moral temperament. How could it be? So stating that you are a philosopher doesn't answer any questions. In fact it raises some because I doubt most philosophers would suggest that there could be any kind of link.
2) And then this moral relativism "true north" business. We punish those who do wrong, we reward those excel. In what way is intentionally drugging another human being (and doing so against their will) excellent behavior that should be rewarded? How can that be a humorous thing to say, why would anyone say something like that tongue in cheek, is that the kind of thing you'd find a philosopher saying? I don't think so.
3) And then this drifting off into the territory of pointing out that we should take the context into account. Ok. I'm sure the system will, it's designed to do that. What's that got to do with your initial statement? All it does it seems to me is divert attention away from your previous points.
So tell us, in what way are you a philosopher? Just saying so doesn't make it so.
Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
You have a point, generally, but depending on your living situation there can be very valid reasons for such a curfew.
The simplest one would be that the parents need sleep. Let's say Dad is a construction worker who has to be on a job site that's an hour away by 7 AM. That means he's probably going to get up around 5 to get ready. Setting a housewide 10pm bedtime is one way to make sure he can actually perform his best at the job that keeps the money flowing in. Most people can't afford homes large enough for it to be impossible to hear someone moving around.
Second, teens are not exactly known for massive self-control. Yes, some kids who stay up until 4 AM will pay for it by being exhausted all school day and going to bed early the next night, but many will just sleep in class, then stay up until 4 AM the next night.
anon b/c modded, Demonlapin
If someone can stay up until 5 AM playing WoW and still end up doing well in school, what's the problem?
self-delusion.
You can do this once or twice, especially if you are young. If you think you can do it regularily, then you are deluding yourself. Sleep-deprivation is a well-researched environmental condition and its detrimental physical and mental effects are undisputed.
However, humans are excellent at convincing themselves of any bullshit they want to believe in. Smoking isn't bad for your health, having fun is a sin, drinking every night is just a social activity, your problems are not your fault, whatever.
Someone with an addiction will rationalize it away and explain all resulting problems with other causes. He's not doing bad in school because of lack of sleep, but because the teachers are bad and the other kids are mean to him. He's not lost his marriage because of his drinking problem, but because his wife was unfaithful. He doesn't enjoy torturing people, it's just that sinners need to be punished. Whatever.
You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts.
Sleep deprivation and its effects are well-documented facts, no matter how much you wish that you can party all night, or play WoW or do whatever and shake it off. You can't. We know this, and wishful thinking doesn't change it.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
The whole seems to be cutting off you nose to spite your face, "The daughter and her friend, were arrested and booked". Who is going to pay for the fine, these a pretty serious charges and would normally result in a extended stay in a correctional facility. Often doing more harm than good for the child's future. Something does seem truly odd about the parents seeking prosecution of their own teenage child.
You are evidently not a parent who has had an out of control teenager. Sometimes, you have to call the cops for your own protection/sanity as well as to give the kid a wake up call.
Certain behaviour means that the child has crossed the line from "annoying spoilt teenager" to "dangerous psychopath". And I'd say that drugging your parents just to get round a curfew was one of them.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
This is horrible. There's no excusing it.
Yet, some part of me can't help but to laugh.
My ex-parents gave me so much bad and delusional advice. They even talked me out of applying to MIT because they thought we wouldn't be able to afford it and that there was no reason to expect getting a degree there was any better than a local no-name college. Years later, I find out that, no, I damned well could have afforded it, fuck we affording it. I have a feeling the real reason they discouraged me from applying was that they were afraid I'd be exposed to leftist ideas.
Not everybody is qualified to be a parent. I'd suppose that a lot of people aren't qualified. How many folks who want to be parents care to do their own research about things like circumcision so they can be prepared if something goes wrong? How many people who want to be parents are prepared for the very real possibility that their child might be homosexual? How many people think that circumcision problems only happen to other people, and that their kids ain't gonna be no queer?
Looking back on my childhood, I'm convinced that I was something that happened to my parents. They didn't want me. They wanted to have a hot steamy night, but their religious principles prevented them from using protection. Do I wish they would have sought abortion? A lot of times, I do. But I'm here, still alive and doing science and trying to learn how to live as a normal person instead of the puritan robot they tried to make me.
This will sound cheesy, but once in high school I started growing my hair out because I wanted long hair. I still remember crying myself to sleep after my ex-father finally got me to cut it off. Sure, I was a myopic teenager at the time, but that's not what strikes me about that memory. I didn't do it because I was forced; I did it because for some sick reason I loved my ex-father and respected his judgement. Most people's fathers get smarter the older they get; my ex-father just gets more idiotic and warped the older I get. I wonder what I'd do instead if I could go back and time and tell myself that in 3 years I'd be spending a weekend homeless.
I was employed, I could have moved out. But I didn't because I trusted two people who turned out to be completely untrustworthy. They didn't even give me a week's notice so that I could look for an apartment and sign a lease. They made sure to keep me nice and sheltered as their 4.0 GPA machine so I wouldn't know what to do on my own, then they gave me until the end of the work day to find somewhere to couch surf or they'd have me thrown in jail for trespassing. I'm still grateful to the friends that made sure I didn't end up permanently homeless and talked me out of suicide.
They said I'd die homeless in a gutter from AIDS. Well, years later after they tried to make that happen, I bought a house. So whatever. Over 10 years, and it still hurts, but I suspect it never will stop hurting. Everyone's got something inside that hurts all the time I suppose. This is my thing inside that hurts.
If I could have children, I'd do so many things differently. First would probably be to love them and try to do the best for them, not for my own ego.
Oh well, that's enough out of me. Posting without karma bonus. Maybe some day there will be a way for me to have my own children.
Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
Correlation. Causation. There's a slashot chant involving them somewhere...
Possibly the shithead kids are the cause and the strict and controlling parents the effect as they try and help their idiot offspring make a good choice once in a blue moon. Hey they made it to college so maybe it worked?
Might there not also be a set of dickhead kids who didn't have strict and controlling parents and rather than ending up skipping classes in college didn't make it through high school or whatever the "bad option" is these days?
Though clearly there's a mechanism for your theory - overly controlling parents end up with kids who never learned self discipline because they never got to make a choice themselves. But the other way works too - idiot kid gets more and more restrictive rules applied as they keep making the stupid choices over and over again.
Teenagers also don't have fully developed brains and have a higher Risk Taking tolerance.
Combined with peer pressure makes a dangerous combination.
I am sure any of us who is older than 21 can remember back doing stupid stuff as a teen with a group of other teens that you would never do now.
The kids probably figured that it was a harmless prank on their parents, under evaluating the risk of giving their parents prescription drugs, and like all teens thinking their parents wouldn't notice the feeling of being drugged.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
medical science also indicates that the teenage body's sleep cycle shifts to wake up _later_ than a preteen. Yet high school usually starts earlier. (Yeah, it's kind of off topic but it was one of my peeves at that age :)
I'm guessing video games will get blamed for this.
Of course. That and milk.
You mean milk-plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what they were drinking? This would dull them down and get you ready for a bit of the old Facebook.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Exactly. pen pal. Nobody talked about keyboard pal. Write a letter. And go to bed.