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Islamist Hackers Shut Down Egyptology Research Journal
An anonymous reader writes "Radical Islamist hackers have been harassing Egyptologist Kate Phizackerley's online journal Egyptological and her blog KV64. Phizackerley and her team finally got tired of it and shut their online work down. As blogger Roger Pearse says, 'A bunch of violent scumbags... who never have contributed in any way to the web, have successfully interfered with the scientific effort of the entire human race... Next year there will be more.' How do we route around damage like this?"
No, you route the damage to the attacker. A predator drone should do nicely.
Doing Real Original, Newsworthy and Engaging Science.
We all want to be tolerant and politically correct, but the fact is that there is only one major religion left whose *mainstream* ideology is not only completely intolerant of other religions, but willing to use the violence and the power of the state against any opposing views. There may still be nutball factions in other religions, but only one religion still has the nutballs in the mainstream and ready to kill and oppress for their religion.
Perhaps it would send a clearer message if we stopped celebrating some groups for hacking and DOS's websites of people, governments or companies we don't like?
After all, if it's ok for Anonymous to harass websites who don't conform to "our" cultural preferences, then I suppose it's ok for anyone to harass any website they don't agree with. . .
stop pussy footing around Muslims. Tell them bluntly, they're entitled to their religion, but they're not entitled to force or enforce any of their beliefs and rules on anybody else. Religion is a personal choice. The minute their choice starts to impact others, they need to be warned. If they fail to heed the warning, put them in a cell.
Use something like http://ruhoh.com/ for your blog : have all your content in an easy-to-mirror git database. Host a backup in github, have friends with backups.
There is probably a legal solution too, after all, we do complain that this kind of moves are considered like high-level terrorist intrusions. I still find the punishments disproportionate, but they do exist, use the legal process.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
To be fair, Anonymous typically only targets groups that fuck with them or people they don't think should be fucked with. From what I see here, Kate wasn't messing with anyone, she was just posting a journal.
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
I'm pretty sure that actually Anonymous's actions shutting down websites have been seen to be illegal, and widely condemned (if also widely praised by an entirely different set of people) when they've happened.
Of more concern to me is the precedent any politician shows by attempting to shut down the dispersal of scientific information (or forced dispersal of anti-science propaganda) on religious grounds. That happens in too many countries, and unfortunately the West doesn't seem to be short of such zealots, even if certain areas of the world seem to have slightly more dangerous variants.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
No, not everyone has to deal with hackers persistently trying to shut down their website because of the content they're posting.
There is no double standard : very few people support DDOSes as a legitimate way of protesting. However, many protest that it is punished more harshly than, say, vandalism inside a shop you disagree with.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
Yes, that's true that many people condemn Anonymous for shutting down websites, but my point is, there's enough people that hold them up as some sort of 'heroes', that as a society, we send a bit of a mixed message about what's appropriate, even if it *is* illegal.
Religious fundamentalists = "damage". I like that. Of course I'm sad that such damage exists and must be "routed around", but the whole idea of the "damage" metaphor applied to fundamentalists nut-jobs in the context of an enlightened world is just so deliciously apropos. Mind you, this is not a rant against religion, per se, but it is a forthright statement, blunt and loud, about anti-social fuck-wits who think that their religious beliefs justify their behavior.
Reading the Koran to understand Islam is like reading the Bible to understand Christianity. It doesn't work.
Just as they have already destroyed those Buddhist statues, and many other such artifacts.
They even want to destroy the pyrimids in Egypt.
IMO: Muslims are even more anti-science than Christians.
I find it interesting that all the posts that point out the simple fact that Islam is a dangerous, disgusting religion are modded negative. Are the Islamist astroturfers bringing out the votes? How democratic!
There is no such thing as "Moderate" Islam
Sure there is - I live in Canada and have good friends who are Ismali Shia Muslims. Generally, most Ismalis you might meet are well educated doctors, dentists, lawyers, engineers. Their women are sexually liberated, educated, respected and aren't wrapped in bedsheets from head to toe. Their leader, the Aga Khan, publicly works for secular pluralism and women's rights.
Pfft. Some believer in magic is telling us all to educate ourselves.
Listen. The burden is on you. It's your religion. You want to improve your religion's image? Then convince other members of the Mohammed cult not to blow people up or cut off infidels heads or to stone people to death.
Yeah, except mainstream Christians stopped killing people who disagreed with them hundreds of years ago. Mainstream Islam still does.
This is typical behavior for the Islamic fundamentalist who are predominantly uneducated.
As opposed to more educated Muslims that have the skill to pilot airplanes into tall buildings.
Yeah, except mainstream Christians stopped killing people who disagreed with them hundreds of years ago. Mainstream Islam still does.
[citation needed]
People are fanatic about it, and kill every day for it.
Do you have trouble fitting such a wide brush through doorways?
I'm sorry, but you are the one who is clueless. I stated that Anonymous typically only targets groups who are actively messing with other people . If you can't understand why that's different than an Islamist group targeting someone for just being someone they don't like, then you are a moron.
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
Read the Quran. It strongly promotes violance, sexism, war, intolerance of any other religions, etc. That is Islam whether most muslims act that way or not.
Is there any evidence whatsoever that it was "Islamist Hackers" that shut down the journal? What happened to the "negotiations with the hacker"?
Why was the blog hosted by Blogger shut down? Surely it wasn't being hacked was it?
Something seems out of place...
Exactly. It's so incredibly facinating to watch some "Christians" rail about Islam and yet fail to see that the exact charge they just made applies to Christianity...and could be applied to all Christians if one were to choose to be ignorant and intolerant about the whole thing.
Radical Muslims are anti-science, just as are radical Christians.
Islam inherently promotes scientific inquiry.
From an Islamic standpoint, science, the study of nature, is considered to be linked to the concept of Tawhid (the Oneness of God).
This link implies a sacred aspect to the pursuit of scientific knowledge by Muslims, as nature itself is viewed in the Qur'an as a compilation of signs pointing to the Divine.
During the Middle Age the House of Wisdom in Baghdad was a far more advanced center of science than anything in Europe. It's where al-Kwarizmi wrote the al-Kitab al-mukhtasar fi hisab al-jabr wa'l-muqabala. Hint: the word algebra is taken from al-jabr. And al-Kwarizmi became the word algorithm.
The first empiricists and theoretical physicists are regarded to be Muslims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Al-Haytham
It was only when the sons of Genghis Khan rode into Baghdad that this golden age came to an end.
I read it. You're absolutely right, violence, sexism, war, intolerance.... Oh wait, that was the Bible I was reading. Nevermind.
At one point in history, Western culture was as religiously zealous as many Islamists are today -- the Inquisition, wars, Salem witch trials, etc.
But at some point the larger culture and its leaders turned away from this kind of mindset. Sure, we still have money & publicity seeking zealots on TV and a few anti-abortion protesters were inclined toward violence, but overall the West hasn't seen the level of religious extremism that grips the Islamic world today.
Even Islamic countries with established governments and no ongoing military conflict have laws that would make the Inquisition leaders blush -- amputations, beheadings, really severe laws against expression which could even remotely be considered blasphemous. And not just in the Middle East, either.
So, despite counter-factual examples in the West and despite the benefits of science, Islamic culture remains highly punitive and opposed to change, yet the West changed when information wasn't as easily available and science wasn't nearly as advanced. Why?
with all respect.
not all Shi'ites are frothing at the mouth lunatics.
Just like not all Sunnis are takfuri, or even worse, wahabis.
--the last sane American left, it feels sometimes.
Extremists are just fundamentalists. And when it's the fundamentals are repulsive it's time to shut the whole thing down. That goes for any religion.
How come you are telling me to read qur'an? Me, being an educated Atheist convert to Islam, shouldn't I know at least a little bit about my own religion?
Yes, I've read the qur'an, more than once, but more importantly, I also read commentaries of it, explaining the context. Which is, as any sane person should know, essential to understand the meaning.
Most of what I've read is that Islam encourages compassion, learning and debating in the best way. I could cite a lot of passages, and I mean a lot, in case you don't believe me.
$(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
1) What you say is not true. Anonymous targets folks they disagree with.
2) One can define "actively messing with other people" however they want. A jihadist would use the exact same term to describe what they do.
2) Even if what you said were entirely true, what you are describing is "vigilantism". In the movies this is great. In the real world you end up with a might makes right society. You and the jihadist are in complete agreement that this is acceptable.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Incorrect. What an Islamic state requires is that non-Muslims simply abide by the laws. This is the same in any modern type of government.
$(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
Like any religion, the holy book says exactly what the believer wishes it said. And if it says something different, it's an allegory meaning what the believer wishes it said.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
The Koran is just a few new chapters added to the Old Testament, when you get down to it. Any Muslim will readily acknowledge that his religion is an offshoot of Judaism and Christianity. The major difference is, the Muslims have their warrior prophet, whereas the Christians have their turn-the-other-cheek saviour. The Jews are still waiting for their messiah - it's anyone's guess what happens when their arrives.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
apostasy is a death sentence in a number of islamic countries. among them
pakistan
saudi arabia
egypt
Iran
being that its government policy and the state religion is islam it can be surmised that the laws reflect the mainstream ME version(s) of islam.
apostasy=disagreeing with islam
note:the death sentence is not always carried out but generally some form of severe punishment is
2nd note:this is not reflective of westernized muslims is europe & north america
No TRUE muslim would ever... you know the rest.
Go study Sufism then. If you think Islam is so terrible you need to read the Bible carefully.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Fuck, that's not religion, that's just humanity. You get the same shit out of Hollywood. Religion is just something people happen to believe in. You really think science will solve war, intolerance, and whatever? You haven't been paying attention to history.
The Koran is more internally consistent, having a single author and single editor, and is read in its original language. The Bible tends to be all over the place. Different authors, different translations. It's a mess.
But with both texts, different readings are still possible, if you have your own agenda.
That must be why there are so many churches in Saudi Arabia, or why non-Muslims are so welcome in Mecca--because they're so tolerant.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
You are confusing a theological problem with a sociological one.
The issue that concerns you as a non muslim is "Can or should I tar all Muslims with the same brush?"
No you shouldn't, and your actions will actually worsen relations between different groups
FYI I am not a crypto theist of any description, but I can tell when someone is simply being prejudiced
Maybe you need an example closer to your own home:
Are all Christians the same as Westboro Baptist? Is a Quaker or a Unitarian the same as a Fundamentalist Evangelical who uses biblical quotations to argue against homosexuality and "miscegenation"?
Of course they are not, and it would be useful if those who thought they were the same made some effort.
The major problem with understanding Islam for Americans is that your media simply does not allow for the existence of anything extremist fundamentalists.
Imagine a world where you were only told about the most lunatic fringe christians..
Warn the hackers to cease their illegal activities. If necessary give a second warning with the explicit threat of physical rebuke. If they fail to cease their shenanigans then simply locate them but give them the choice of humane execution or amputation of their hands.
Done.
The only "compassionate" thing about Islam is that in the all-out war against infidels you are allowed to merely lie, cheat and use "stratagems" when you have no chances of a direct victory by force (Taqiyya), and that, if strategy demands so, you may enter a temporary truce with "people of the book" but must be prepared to stab them in the back and resume the all-out war the moment "Allah giveth command" (2:109). Yes, the very line that says "forgive and be indulgent" continues with "until".
Unlike Bible, the Koran contains very few contradictions, and it's message is clear. And I really dislike what it says.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Might does make right. Don't forget, the winners write the history books, and the losers don't even get to put their rationalizations for war into the footnotes. I'm aware of that, and the jihadists are also aware of that. Might makes right.
The question is, are we stronger than the jihadists? Is Islam stronger than the jihadists? You know, if the jihadists win, and get their way, it's not going to matter what you or I think, and it's not going to matter what the mainstream Muslim thinks either.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
To be a pedant, apostacy is converting away from a religion ("deconverting"?), not simply disbelieving. If you were never a member of the club, you're just an heathen. If you leave the club, you're an apostate.
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
Firstly, stop assuming that everyone who is against Islam is supportive of Christianity. Secondly, it's pathetic that among nerds and supposed intellectuals a quip about the Bible can successfully derail a discussion about Islam, when we know for certain that a quip about the Quran rightfully could NOT do the same to a discussion about Christianity.
Lastly, the fact that Muslims are the victims du jour in the geopolitical world does not mean Islam itself should be put upon a pedestal or given special treatment in the social world. Too many of my fellow liberal atheists, in their enthusiasm to accommodate the downtrodden, go too far to make excuses for things they'd normally never accept.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
What was it about the other religions that made you avoid/reject them, and what was it about Islam that convinced you?
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
The Qur'an and the history of Islam generally expresses great tolerance towards other religions. People of the Book
Ie, they are allowed a brief despite during the forced conversion, being merely considered a lower class of beings and forced to pay tribute for being allowed to be left alive -- then they need to be put to sword and fire once Allah gives a command to continue extermination (unless they convert to Islam). Yes, quite a stellar example of "great tolerance".
As someone who's not a "person of the Book", and thus has to be slain immediately, especially if I dare to express my views, I think I'll pass praising such a great religion of peace.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
One way to respond to this is to figure out what these people were trying to suppress, and publicize that information. The information becomes newsworthy for the simple reason that someone tried to suppress it. This is an unintended consequence of trying to suppress information -- the act of suppression itself brings attention to the information. So what specific posts triggered this attack from the fanatics? I we can identify them, we can publicize them. I skimmed the linked articles and did not get a good idea of what set them off.
You know, of course, you're 100% wrong. Anonymous is whoever says they are Anonymous. That means that there are people who do what you say they do, and there are others in it for the lulz.
Anonymous can be a bunch of Islamic kids DDoSing some blog. You start putting Anonymous on a pedestal, and it is going to piss on you from the higher vantage point. Because it can.
I'll take your challenge. Why don't you explain to me where the compassion is in Sura 9.
Only Muslims are considered to be Muslims from birth according to Islam, so nobody really gets a choice. In "democratic" Egypt, just last week seven children were charged, along with the mother, for apostasy. This happens every fucking week if you pay attention.
Cites: the Al-Azhar University in Cairo. Their publications are considered to be canon by most of Sunni Islam, and yest, the death penalty is proscribed for apostasy. Here's some more love from the democratic Egypt. Hey. But at least they didn't kill the mother and kids. Congratulations on cheering on such democratic values of peace and love.
In Islam we don't listen to any lunatic proclaiming stuff. There are sciences with defined methodologies, and there are scientists or scholars who debate religious issues, which is much like peer-reviewing in modern science.
$(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
unusual offshoots of the major religions.
It's hardly an 'unusual offshoot.' Ismailism is the second largest branch of Shia Islam.
Pfft. Some believer in magic is telling us all to educate ourselves.
Listen. The burden is on you. It's your religion. You want to improve your religion's image?
No, it's not my job to separate someone else's point of view from my point of view because you are too ignorant to distinguish the two. I do not have the burden to explain my point of view to you just to not be insulted by you.
Religion is just one form of freedom of speech. Take another example that would be closer to your heart.
Say you are a gamer. Someone says "You have to stop gaming! All these violent games cause school massacres.". Lets assume that justification were true, but you only play minesweeper. Is it your job to explain and defend yourself? No, the burden is on ignorant people to inform themselves, and refrain from general statements.
If you outlaw religion, you outlaw free speech. There are many forms of religion, not all are simplistic, anti-science and magical like your world-view would like them.
Finally, Muslims do have that dialogue with radicals, and are shaking their head about the killings. This perspective is just never shown on Western TV and newspapers, contributing to a outside view of "they all are the same".
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
The issue that concerns you as a non muslim is "Can or should I tar all Muslims with the same brush?" No you shouldn't, and your actions will actually worsen relations between different groups
I think you have made the mistake of confusing this world for an ideal one.
I don't claim this as "fair", but humans will judge others based on the group labels they wear. Non-Muslims will not take the time to learn someone's stance on which Caliphs count for which purposes.
A disturbingly large number of people who identify themselves as Muslims go around blowing up buildings, hijacking refineries, chopping off heads, raping Western reporters to celebrate "democracy", and generally doing their damnedest to make the rest of the world hate them. The rest of the world has no obligation to give a shit about why we shouldn't consider the left hand as bad as the right; The burden rests on "the good ones" to get their own house in order.
And this applies just as well to any other religion, to races, to entire cultures. You don't "just" need to live as a role-model - You need to live as a role model and get everyone else under the same banners as you to do the same.
Are all Christians the same as Westboro Baptist?
No, but I would point to Phelps as yet another reason our species needs to do away with all overt expressions of religion (the biggest applicable "banner" in this situation). Believe whatever the hell you want, but keep it to yourself. We need people like that medicated or even committed, not protected because of the particular brand of vitriol they spew.
Educate yourself people.
I did. That's why I'm an atheist.
We need people like that medicated or even committed, not protected because of the particular brand of vitriol they spew.
Why stop with the religious? There are plenty of other belief systems that seem kooky or outright insane to many of our compatriots. I for one would start with Marxism and Objectivism, but even more mainstream views get plenty of vitriol - I'm pretty sure there's a bumper sticker that says "Liberalism is a mental disorder". Considering all of the gridlock and bad policy that results from having such a diverse range of views, our species clearly needs to medicate or commit anyone whose views do not mesh well with the "majority" viewpoint, however that's defined.
I think I'll stick to our current anarchic system, thank you. A state that declares the overtly religious to be mentally ill and deprives them of basic civil rights can do the same to me or anyone else who gets in the way. Not unlike most Islamist regimes, ironically.
Your post is just plain bigoted.
His post is reality based unlike yours.
but I can still see religious organizations doing a lot of good things for a lot of people. For instance, Matthew 25 Ministries. Check out the free food banks in your area. I bet most of them are run by churches.
And how many of those poor people are poor due to Christianity's barbaric policies on birth control and abortion?
How much of the AIDS epidemic in Africa is due to the Catholic Church's murderous attitude and bald-faced lies about condoms?
Sorry, sparky, but you don't get to shoot somebody in the face with a shotgun and then claim to be doing good when you toss them a band aid.
Christianity promotes poverty and desperation as a business tactic in order to increase the number of poor and desperate so they have something to point to as a need for their "help".
Utterly morally bankrupt and disgusting.
Are all Christians the same as Westboro Baptist? Is a Quaker or a Unitarian the same as a Fundamentalist Evangelical who uses biblical quotations to argue against homosexuality and "miscegenation"?
Even though Westboro Baptist pricks spew more shit out of their mouths with every breath then comes out of my ass in an entire month, at least they aren't taking hostages, blowing people up or slowly sawing off heads then posting the video online.
Every religion has had it's dark ages. Christianity has evolved beyond those days but there is a rather large section of Islam that remains in the dark ages. They are primarily the brainwashed ones.
Anytime someone tries to understand Islam by 'reading the Koran', you can pretty much call them an idiot.
I'm Muslim by background, albeit a very secular one, but I come from a pretty strong religious background.
The core to Islamic practice is not the Koran, but the Hadith. That is the words and actions of the prophet Mohamed.
The Koran is actually pretty vague on most things and without the context of the Hadith can be read to mean pretty much anything. Heck, you won't even find the 5 daily prayers Muslims do in the Koran. Nor will you find beards. Nor will you find stoning...
The core to Islamic belief is the Koran.
The core to Islamic practice is the Hadith.
Disclaimer, there a group of Koran-only Muslims who try to take out the Hadith and only focus on the Koran, but they're a miniscule minority and IMHO the koran cannot be understood without the hadith... but if it helps progress Islam I support their efforts even if I think it intellectually dishonest.
Are all Christians the same as Westboro Baptist?
No, but who is actually the greatest danger to a secular society?
When a judge wants to post the 10 commandments in a coutroom, who is behind that? Mainstream christians or the WBC?
When a principal wants to keep a homosexual student from attending prom, who is behind that? Mainstream christians or the WBC?
When the leaders of the Catholic Church in this country seek to withhold birth control from secular employees, who is behind that? Mainstream christians or the WBC?
When I can't buy alcohol on Sunday before noon, who is behind that? Mainstream christians or the WBC?
When teenage mothers go on the dole because they weren't educated about birth control, who is behind that? Mainstream christians or the WBC?
The WBC is repugnant, but it's a side show. They have no power. The real danger to secular people in the US comes from "moderate" christians.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Close and remove the mosques, deport any thecrate who states anything countary to our laws. Simply get aggressive.
Speaking as a non-religious US citizen, I'd prefer to deport you first.
We would not tolerate priests or the pope stating in a thecratic context what is said by these islamics.
We do tolerate this, all the time. You can find Christians in the US who are every bit as nutty and prone to violent revenge fantasies as the Islamists - try googling "Christian reconstructionists". They rarely carry out their violent revenge fantasies, fortunately, but you're talking about deporting people for their views and public statements, not violent actions. I'd be pretty happy if we didn't have any religious nutters in this country, actually, but I'm even happier not having to worry about being locked up or thrown out because I express a viewpoint someone else disagrees with.
When we see Muslim outrage over Muslim crimes, then we'll see how not to use too broad a brush with which to paint Muslims. Christian groups regularly denounce unChristian behavior among other Christian groups. Where does that occur in Islam? It doesn't for two reasons, (1) Muslims don't find Islamic practice, no matter how barbaric, all that questionable, (2) the Muslims who do object are generally not around too long before nutjobs come for them.
Muslims do not believe Islam is in need of reformation. Others on the blunt end of Muslim atrocities do believe such a reformation is necessary.
If they can throw Phelps in jail for speech, they can throw you in jail for speech. Criminalizing Phelps is a complete non-starter in any free country.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Are all Christians the same as Westboro Baptist?
Most Christian organizations are opposed to gay rights. The difference is that the lobbyists from the Catholic Church have a lot more influence than WBC's signs.
So I'd say "No, they're not the same: Westboro Baptist Church is a bunch of amateurs."
You are wrong. There was a Golden Age of Islamic science but it was shut down over 700 years ago because the questions started to get too uncomfortable for the Caliph in Bagdad. Now it is forbidden to question, Allah requires your unquestioning obedience. That is as anti-science as you can get. Therefore your post is incorrect, you are misinformed, and as a result you are spreading incorrect information. You might want to stop doing that.
Note that the current theological view of Muslims is that there *are no laws of nature and everything that happens in the will of Allah*. Hence, there is no gravity, only Allah causes things to fall by his will. Allah could just as easily cause something not to fall. Because they believe there are no natural laws Muslims believe it is more profitable to study the sunnah (Qur'an and hadiths) and avoid hellfire of the afterlife than diabolical books about science that the Westerners have. This follows the philosophy set by Al Ghazali: http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/imam-al-ghazali-on-studying-science/
The reason Al-Ghazali opposed science and reason is precisely why we embrace it. He opposed it because it would lead people away from Allah. We like science because it allows people to develop reason and reject superstition and false constructs (eg. the fictions of Allah/God/Yaweh/Krishna etc for which there is *zero reputable scientific evidence*).
So, the current theology of Islam is completely anti-science. It wasn't always that way (when the Muslims were reading Greek and Roman texts) but is now.
That's a very common tactic used by Muslims (and quite a few Christians and Jews, for that matter) to explain away the despicable things in their holy books. It's a very good tactic to cloud the issue, confuse critics, and avoid dealing with the real problem which is the fundamentally disgusting nature of Islam (and Christianity and Judaism... but we're talking about Islam here for now.)
As the Turkish Prime Minister famously said in 2007, "there are moderate Muslims, there is only on Islam. Islam is Islam.". Just because the majority of Muslims don't practice their beliefs doesn't make the *core doctrine* of Islam any less evil. Stop apologizing for evil. Stop defending it. Go and read the Qur'an and hadiths yourself and you will see that they contain more hate speech than Mein Kampf does.
As Sam Harris says, the problem with Islamic Fundamentalists is the Fundamentals of Islam. So get real about Islam, k?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDMOxjHIt0U
The huge bulk of pseudo-Muslims don't matter. What matters is to recognize that the totalitarian, supremacist, theocratic, political ideology of Islam is not only false (its claims are not supported by science) but it is genocidally evil and must be opposed with no ifs, buts, or apologies by all Free People. So stop making apologies, you are enabling evil (which incidentally, could be construed as making you evil).
Note also that the pseudo-Muslims, who are not strict in their practice are as much in danger from devout Muslims as we are. Not I use the word 'devout' as this is accurate. Using the word 'extremist' is misleading, the terrorists and Islamic supremacists are devout to *core teachings* of genocide and hate; they are not misinterpreting the teachings in any way (which is the common excuse may by apologists hoping to fool those that don't understand what Islam actually teaches).
It is interesting you mention the Westboro Baptist. While I think they are fruitcakes, Terry Jones is absolutely 100% percent correct to burn a Qur'an with the intent of causing offense. The right to cause offence is protected as Free Speech and it is essential to exercise that Free Speech right (as Terry Jones did). Anyone who opposes it supports censorship (which is why it was suprising Petraeus sent him a note to prevent the burning - Petraeus was in Afghanistan to defend Free Speech, not to say when it may or may not be exercised!). Those that are politically correct and oppose anyone causing offense for anything are *against Free Speech* (although most people don't think it through or are too dumb to realise they are supporters of censorship). I presume you are an opponent of burning Qur'ans but recognize the right of Muslims to burn flags, each other, and us for some perceived injustice (like not converting to Salafi Islam when they demand we do)? Get real. The Westboros may be assholes, and burning Qur'ans is insenstive, but anyone who opposes their exercise of Free Speech is a closet totalitarian (whether they are smart enough to realise it or not).
You are utterly mistaken when you say "You are confusing a theological problem with a sociological one.". Osama bin Laden was very rich, powerful and had great social status - it was theology/ideology that drove him to murder 3000 human beings. It is clear you don't understand Islam at all and are talking through your politically-left-tinted glasses without knowing anything (no uncommon, once you acquired more facts you would disagree with the left's position in this matter). Go read the Qur'an and hadiths. Go and see how they are mostly about the *obligation* of Muslims to kill and rape and plunder unbelievers and Jews and Christians; and how it is ok molest children because Mohammed married Aisha at age 6 (although he did not consumate until age 9, that's still pedophilia in anyone's book, except the Mohammed's Qur'an, of course).
In short, your position is false and it is evident that you haven't even looked at any evidence against your 'no nothing' position. Go and look at the following sites, and if you are not shocked and still believe that the problem is not Islam but is instead something else then come back here and challenge me. Once you actually know something then you are qualified to debate. Until you know something it is better you stop speaking untruths.
No, I would argue that it's a diabolically inhuman strategy to keep the sheep in line, completely at odds with any shred of morality, and so repugnant that any philosophy that espouses it deserves to be erased from history.
Mod points if I had 'em. Just because they show 'you' a good face doesn't mean they are a 'net' positive force.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
Mostly agree, but WBC gives the moderates a much wider field to be extreme and still seem 'moderate'.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
Christian groups regularly denounce unChristian behavior among other Christian groups. Where does that occur in Islam?
Here.
It doesn't for two reasons
You do realize that you live in a complete fantasy world, right?
No equivalence with Israel, there are mosques there. In fact, there's a mosque sitting on Judaism's most holy site. There is no equivalence with Vatican City, since it's basically one big church compound, not a large city like Mecca (over 2,500 times the size of Vatican City). The Al-Masjid al-áaram is almost the size of Vatican City, so you're talking the equivalent of putting a church within the Mosque's compound.
Can a Muslim enter Vatican City? Of course. Can he proselytize others to his religion while there? Of course.
When can I enter Mecca? I can't, because the Quran says I'm unclean. Can a Christian proselytize in Saudi Arabia? Nope, illegal.
He should be given time and help to resolve his doubts about Islam, but if he still refuses, he needs to be put to death. Although this is something that rarely happens, if at all. I have yet to see a real apostate who isn't a complete idiot or a liar.
$(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
Why would any God worth his salt want to be "worshipped"? Any God I worship is going to have to be worthy of worship. I have yet to find one of those in any religion in the world.
All religions are a threat. People may not like what I have to say but I do feel threatened when I hear national Catholic archbishops declare the "atheists are making war upon the church" in response to complaints about the handling of priestly pedophiles.
if he still refuses, he needs to be put to death.
Yeah, see, if you wanted to defend Islam on this thread, you could start by not making psychopathic statements like this. People like you have no business in a modern, liberal society, and it's silly to expect everyone else to respect your beliefs (or your person, for that matter) when you actively advocate murder in their name.