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Surface Pro Sold Out; Was It Just Understocked?
TechCrunch is one of the many outlets to report that Microsoft's Surface Pro tablet computer sold out on its first day of wide availability. Business Insider points to Reddit threads complaining that "selling out" was largely a product of not having all that many in stock to begin with, in some cases not even enough to cover pre-ordered devices.
I think the Surface is a terrible device, but It will be interesting to see reaction to this vs reaction to the Nexus ordering issues.
After the abject failure that was the Windows RT Surface, any real interest outside of the nerd community probably fell off of a cliff.
Isn't that the definition?
Am I the only one here who's first thought was: "Well, if that's their story, they better stick to it..." ?
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I want this thing running linux before the month is out. I'd even settle for Windows 7. Just... not the Windows 8 abomination. Anything but that.
If it weren't for the price, I rather like the idea of an x86 high-spec tablet. The android offerings have to make a lot of compromises to keep weight down and battery life up. The Surface pro doesn't: It's a lap-burning battery-sucking brick with processing power to rival a laptop. That's the type of tablet I want.
I would absolutely buy one if I had not recently bought a high-end notebook. In fact I am thinking about buying it anyways and selling the notebook.
I do not think that this was intentional, this is really a great product. Maybe they were surprised themselves because the RT version did not sell all that well.
a standard marketing technique? That makes it possible to be "Amazed and pleased at the huge demand that has far exceeded our expectations!"
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Two of the four fans standing in line for Florida Marlins tickets were sent away after the team announced the game was sold out.
Just because someone isn't stocking in Apple sized proportions doesn't mean it's a failure. It's not selling out for hype, it's selling out because demand exceeded expectations. The launch is a success. The estimation was a failure. Selling out causes a lot of pain for manufacturers as it causes disinterest in channel which in turn mean businesses stop stocking your goods, and sales staff get in a habit of selling other goods. It's similar to release delays, it hurts everyone involved.
This is similar to "Nokia selling out of the Lumia 920 for hype" -- whoever thinks a loss making company would do this is ill informed (well, loss making at that point in time, they turned a profit in Q4).
Microsoft also "sold out" of the Surface RT on launch day as well... and that thing has sold poorly after it's initial launch. They were originally expecting to sell 2 million units in Q4 2012, and they only sold about half of that.
It seems that this tactic has become a common way for Microsoft to generate some additional post launch hype for their products. I wonder how many times they can get away with it before the mainstream press catches on...
I want this thing running linux before the month is out.
First big hurdle - is there even a Linux that's built for touch input?
Second hurdle - all sorts of custom drivers, including I'd imagine the driver for the keyboard/trackpad cover. It's not bluetooth and I don't think it's standard USB either.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why is that so hard to believe? the thing is really cool. I really want one. The 128GB version, i wouldn't consider the 64GB, although external storage is an option too.
In a nutshell:
Pros:
A full computer, can run any x86 app, pressure sensitive stylus, connects to external monitors, or ANY USB device or storage.
Cons:
Weight 2lbs (Is that really a con?)
Battery Life: 4.5 hours
It's a lap-burning battery-sucking brick with processing power to rival a laptop. That's the type of tablet I want.
You and very few other people! I mean, what's the point, exactly? Why not get a similarly light ultrabook? The whole idea of a tablet is that it's light, the batterly lasts all day, and the UI is oriented around touch. I mean, there are things about the iPad that drive me nuts (particularly file-handling, or rather the way it tries abstract away file-handling completely) but it gets all that right. Do you really want something as heavy as a laptop with a laptop-focused OS, but with no keyboard?
Reporting reddit posts as news. Congrats Slashdot, you've sunk to the level of gawker.com.
All the pro-Surface stories I've seen over the last few months don't pass the sniff test.
They all give me the impression that MS marketing is pulling out all the stops for this one,
sensing serious implications if they fail.
I'm pretty sure this happens at every apple release. They run out of stock, and it's a huge success. I suppose the definition of success and understock (and all things related) is quite variable.
... expecting this sort of statement, controversy and ... free advertising (I'm such a cynic).
I can't help wonder if microsoft just judged the market acceptance of the product just right and was
- Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
I want this thing running linux before the month is out.
First big hurdle - is there even a Linux that's built for touch input?
Well, besides Android (which has been mentioned), I'm pretty sure Ubuntu is prepping a phone implementation of a linux OS... and if that's not customized for touch interaction, I'll eat my socks.
- Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
Have gnu, will travel.
Microsoft has deep pockets and deep connections with numerous hardware suppliers and could have stocked tens of millions of these devices, if they'd wanted to do so. Apple often does this prior to their product launches and has provided what is effectively a blueprint on how to do these sorts of things. There is no magic to it. You spend a lot of money making devices. You spend a lot of money on air freight -although arguably Microsoft had so much lead time, regular sea shipments would have been enough, and you stage stock where it will be available for sale on launch day. It is not very hard to do.
So the fact that Microsoft did not do this means they essentially chose not to. They deliberately didn't put product in the channel. This a marketing choice, not necessarily a sign that there's huge unfulfilled demand or even moderate unfulfilled demand. If anything, it says they don't have tremendous faith in the product OR that they never intended this to be a tent-product but merely a tent-pole product designed to capture buzz that can be redirected into general interest in the platform.
These are risky choices.
Sig for hire.
I finally came to the realisation that I had a genuine use for a tablet. Reading academic papers on the train and the like. I tried to buy a Nexus 10 but it wasn't available anywhere. So I had a long hard think about it and in the end I bought an Acer W510, an x86 atom-based tablet running full-fat Windows 8.
Obviously I'm going to immediately draw all sorts of ire here on Slashdot but that can't be helped. The problem I had was that there really just wasn't much difference in price between a high-end Android tablet and something with an x86 and a proper OS with proper software. Whether that matters is down to the usage case. I wanted a tablet but one I could clip a keyboard to and do some proper work in. Office apps mostly. I also wanted proper battery life, not pretend battery life.
So far it's been pretty good! I use the weird Windows 8 Metro (or whatever it's called now) UI when I'm using it as a tablet. Mostly as a launcher but some native Win8 touch apps are handy, like document readers, Kindle, that sort of thing. The touch interface is borderline useless on the classic Windows desktop but at least there *is* a Windows desktop which is where the clip-on keyboard and Bluetooth mouse comes in. That said yesterday while lying in my hammock reading a book on it, a simple gesture swiped between the reader and full-fat Gmail running in Chrome. It's better than anything I've owned before in that respect.
Sorry for the digression but it's on that basis I can talk about the Surface Pro which I had a play with. Firstly, it's too damn heavy. It's 900g versus 550g for the W510. Secondly it's got a fan and it has crap battery life. It also costs a whole ton of money. Sexy slim ultrabook money. So the fact it's *also* a tablet is quite critical if it's pretty much inferior to cheaper ultrabooks in every way as a notebook. A high-res Windows 8 tablet that weighs too much to hold up easily? I don't really get it. On that basis I think the Pro just isn't right.
In the same way RT is just a waste of oxygen since it can only really touch W8 touchy tablet stuff and it makes Android tablet app availability look generous. If you'd wanted a proper tablet for tablet stuff only, you'd do Android or the iPad in my view. The W510 is an interesting device that fits my purposes but it seems kind of niche. I'd prefer it had a slightly higher res screen and the CPU sucked a bit less ass, but it looks like that's coming down the line.
I reckon the Surface Pro is a weird spec because Microsoft are trying to justify the whole Windows RT category as the light device. I think that's rubbish. x86 tablet/notebook hybrids look quite good to me but they do need to be good light weight tablets and that's only just on the bleeding edge right now. Looks like it'll get better still when the faster atoms come along and maybe the Windows 8 app store will start looking more interesting. It wouldn't take much to overtake Android in that respect.
VG Cats #214.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Many of you accuse Microsoft of understocking, and yet when it doesn't continue to sell a whole lot of units, you laugh at their sales? Maybe they just know roughly how many they expect to sell, and stock accordingly? That it sells out on the first day seems to draw unnecessary ire. You weren't really interested in buying it anyways, so why the hell do you care so much?
Really, it's almost as if many of you gain some kind of strange exhilaration from laughing at and faux outrage at Microsoft's missteps. Really, why? The only explanation I can think if is that you WANT to see Microsoft succeed - that many of you are secret Microsoft admirers who are left disappointed and needing an outlet to vent your frustration by mocking them.
Microsoft is doing an excellent job at ensuring their own mediocre results and their own gradual downfall. It really doesn't need you to mock them on the way down. That seems to be a byproduct of your own personality flaws.
MS did the same thing with Xbox 360 launch. They had retailers make up SOLD OUT signs before they even had stock so they could ADVERTISE that they were sold out when they received a small stock.
"Sold out" online only. In fact it "sold out" online weeks (from memory) before the launch date.
Define "poorly." Quote numbers sold and source for your data. You don't know. I don't know. Only Microsoft knows and so far, they aren't talking.
And finally ... the conjecture that MS wants to "generate some additional post launch hype" by pissing off a bunch of potential customers is just ignorant.
Some things sell out because they just can't make enough. The company has made as many as it can and put them all out to retail, and they all sell. However other things sell out because the company deliberately limits production/distribution to make them scarce.
I can work too. People seem to have an irrational need to own things if they are told they can't have it. So paradoxically it can work to increase sales in the long run. People are told "you can't have this" and that makes them want it, even though they didn't before.
Look at the massive run on firearms/magazines what with the proposal for new gun legislation. These people were perfectly happy with what they had prior to this, but suddenly they get told "you can't have this" and they want to rush out and buy it.
I mean if the thing wasnt understocked it would have sold out. So I fail to see how printing the defintion of a word is a news story. But of course with slashdot all you have to do is say something positive about microsoft, say something about apple suing someone, mention the word linux or mention the word patent and suddenly you get a metric f*** ton of hits from retards spamming their often incorrect comments blindly.
Personally though I feel bad for anyone suckered by that product. I mean MS makes great software, the 360 is decent enough but damn those surface tablets were bloated, too thick, too heavy, the battery sucked, the OS sucked and it was basically a steaming turd in the face of like even a kindle fire hd or a google nexus.
But of course anytime anything sells out everyone automatically says "its a marketing ploy" cry cry cry bitch bitch bitch moan moan moan and drone on saying the same old zealot minded brainless shit.
A lot of people on Slashdot decided Windows 8 was supposed to be bad. So now it is to them, regardless of any facts. They haven't actually used it to any significant degree, if at all, they just hate on it because they think they are supposed to hate it.
You'll see the FUD crew out in full force about it. My favourite is that it is a "walled garden" and you can only run apps from the MS store. That is, of course, completely false. It runs anything Windows 7 ran. However the point isn't to spread information, but FUD to try and scare people away from using it.
I'm certainly not a fan, since I think the look is a step backwards and Metro is retarded for the start menu, but I don't hate it. Get a start menu replacer and it works quite well.
Not enough in stock for pre-ordering?
So MS pullled the same trick Sony does each time they come out with a new Playstation console?
The stock was limited to what was shown on that spiffy commercial, which was all that were made.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
Microsoft is struggling to remain relevant in the 21st century given that Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 8, Windows 8, Windows RT and now Surface have been complete and utter failures. There old Windows/Office cash cow is in serious decline as nobody is buying desktops and even laptop sales are being outpaced by smartphone and tablets - a market which Microsoft has failed to make even a dent in.
I blame all these problems on the sheer incompetent management that exists in Microsoft. The CEO Ballmer is a stupid buffoon who couldn't organize a chook raffle let alone run a multi-billion dollar company.
To me it sounds like the company that made it not only did poor market research, they also don't seem to believe in their own product if they don't trust it to sell and hence produce only a small number of them because they themselves thought it would sit on the shelf.
Enough reason for me to steer clear of it. Or at the very least I'll watch the market for a while now and if, and only if, they sell large numbers in the foreseeable future, I could believe that they are willing to support it for a while afterwards and not simply let it "phase out".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Just thought would mention, normally for new product releases there are at least 2 distinct batches to arrive in stores.
First is air freighted typically not many units(often on pallets), second about a month later for the US, are standard shipping containers with the vast bulk of the supply. Air freighted products quite a bit more expensive (i looked at costs a couple of years ago and it was >5x).
If have just spent large $ on a production run, want to get some return as soon as possible but don't want to wreck quite often tight margins by air shipping too much and have it sit around for the month it takes the bulk to arrive. By selling out early can quite often get publicity and pre-orders to help shift the volume arriving later without having to discount the initial price too much.
Because fuck MS, that's why. Go /.
Also, are there any numbers to support the low numbers or is it fud?
I was interested in placing an order for 0.00 Surface Pros. I called the store and they stated that they had that many in stock.
Conveniently, I was able to complete the transaction offline and without going to the store. So I don't know what the foo everyone is complaining about ...
otherwise Microsoft would be talking about the actual number sold.
But I bought one and I like it a lot. I want to write Python while I'm on aeroplanes. It's lighter and smaller than my X220 and has a much better screen. All its quirks and faults are to me, unimportant, and yes, the airline I fly has power sockets so that isn't an issue either.
"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs," I said. "we have a protractor"
Another thing Microsoft just can't get right...
Apple does understocking - "It's selling like crazy!"
Microsoft does understocking - "The supply is limited. Stupid Microsoft..."
Surface Pro is very close to reaching my "device trifecta". I think that the killer device for 2013 needs to be these 3-things with very few compromises: 1) Notebook: everyone is comfortable with this form factor and still wants it. It has to have a full keyboard is basically the main point here. I think that it ideally should be able to work on your lap but I don't know that everyone agrees with me. 2) Tablet: Most people want to consume and play, this is the easiest form factor for that. It is also the best form factor for convenience. If you want to whip your device out and check something really quick then a tablet is the most comfortable form factor to achieve this. 3) Desktop: This is the big one that I think all these tablets are missing and I feel like the solution is so close. All they have to do is make a docking station with dual mini-DisplayPort outputs and a bunch of other connections such as Ethernet, USB3, and audio in/out. the dock would need to connect with just a single connector and should ideally stand the device up in its tablet form factor so it can be used as a 3rd screen for additional interaction/notifications. If this isn't in the plans for Windows 9/Surface 2 then it should be.
Best Buy ordered 64000 units, but only 23000 were delivered.
Margins on these things tend to be pretty thin (and sometimes negative at product introduction), so the last thing you want is to have a bunch of inventory that's not moving. So at product introduction, you make fewer than your low-side estimate of your first month's sales. Then, once you see how it's received in the market, you either ramp up production or you don't.
Or...they have used it, or have seen the qualitative and/or qualitative reviews showing just why Windows 8 is a piece of shit. How it's not internally consistent, how mundane tasks are now hidden behind multiple layers of obscurity, and generally user hostile.
But let's pretend a spade isn't a spade, and that it's all just a bunch of Haterz whining on the Intertubes. Were you pushing the same storyline when Windows ME was released? How about Bob?
Photoshop.
And my entire suite of x86 art software.
Linux based and AppleOS has nothing worth more than a couple of sorry beans to offer in this department.
The Surface Pro is, as of right now, the strongest and most highly anticipated entry in the world of stylus enabled tablets.
It makes me want to get one just to not be among their sad number.
Anybody who can't see value in a high-powered x86 tablet with a high-res screen, great keyboard option and a stylus doesn't have eyes.
When you can run Autodesk software on your iPad or your Nexus, then you can talk. I can run 3D modeling software on the Surface Pro ffs. I can run grown up software. So maybe, just maybe, you're looking at the future and that's what you can't stand.
See, geeks like it when the facts they learn stay the same. That way, they can announced that they know things, that they have important and correct opinions. The concept that Ballmer might have somehow made a good move, might have learned from his mistakes and might be trying his best to do his best, is downright offensive to people who have pegged him as an idiot. He's not allowed to change or evolve. If he does, then that means the geek is in error, and that's simply not allowed!
Facts change and evolve, and so you can't ever declare that you know everything. You have to stay open and you have to keep learning.
Life's tough that way.
So sorry. But this Surface Pro is actually kind of great.
Deal with it.
Both the Pro and the RT were sitting next to each other. The tablets themselves seemed uncomfortably hard-edged, bulky, and heavy. The keyboard covers were nice and surprisingly easy to type on. The UIs were a nightmare, going to some desktop-like thing for many apps. The Windows app store was mostly junk. I think a common use of this is for Powerpoint presentations, but the external screen connector was apparently something proprietary, requiring expensive and proprietary dongles. Try as I might, I couldn't come up with a good reason to buy one; given my dislike for iOS, I was really hoping Microsoft would have managed to create a viable competitor.
Your argument might be valid if that means they wouldn't have to support the other devices regardless. The whole BYOD hype is what MicroSoft is banking on with their tablet concept. Doing so would mean adding a new security layer in your network because you can't trust the end user devices any more. Also, you'll need to put an presentation layer on top of your software that is OS-agnostic so it will display and function on all devices. If it runs on a dirt cheap Android tablet with double the battery life, why bother spending money on a MicroSoft surface? You already spent al your money on implementing BYOD, so there's no cash left for Surface Pro devices. Also, the cheaper Android tablets are just as tax deductable and still cheaper bottom line, so that argument isn't really valid.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
And do use it. I run Windows 8 on my work desktop full time. I'm our Windows support lead. So I have a pretty good feeling for it. I think it was a step backwards in terms of looks and usability. It's flat look is silly, particularly since the DWM is present and more powerful than ever. The start screen is also a very bad choice. While it is not hard to use, it is clumsy to use, it is worse than the start menu which is replaced.
However that really isn't such a big deal. Technically it is a very good OS. It is fast and stable, it has some nice new features, and it runs all the software I've tested, and I've tested a lot.
The major UI issue, the start menu, is easy to fix. You can get Classic Shell for free which does an ok job. For $5 you can get Start 8 which I love, it is a great replacement and very customizable. For $3 you can get Start is Back which actually restores the internal start menu to operation (most of the code is still there).
Hence I tell people don't bother to upgrade, if you've 7 stick with it. However if you get a system with 8, don't downgrade, just get a start menu and call it good.
Now if you have problems with 8, then that's fine, we can talk about them if you like. However just spurting vague shit is FUD, and that is mostly what we see. I see plenty of things about 8 that are flat out wrong.
MS made bad choices, but it really isn't all that big a deal. You find that out pretty quick if you use it much.
Basically my argument is don't upgrade or downgrade. So if you have an existing system with 7, stick with it. My home desktop is 7 and isn't changing any time soon. However if you get a new system with 8, stick with that. There's no reason to downgrade. The only real issue is the start menu and that is easy enough to get back. For that matter the start screen is perfectly usable, just more clunky and obtrusive than a start menu, hence my recommendation to get one.
It is silly to panic over 8 and act like you need to downgrade. You don't, it works just fine. Also, in the event you do happen to have a tablet, then it is better. That start screen is much easier to use than the start menu with fingers, and 8's multi-touch support is superior.
I have had an ageing AMD box around for a while. Here are my geek bench results on this box using W7 and W8, nothing else has changed on the box. It was just upgraded from W7 to W8.
Geek bench W7: 5665
Geek bench W8: 7103
These results are reflected in the day-to-day use of the computer. Honestly, if you want to have your computer perform at its best, there is no downsides to going W8, and a very clear advantage to doing the upgrade. In other words, if you prefer your computer to perform optimally and you need to run on Windows, your retarded if you stay on Windows 7 rather than upgrade to Windows 8.
evolve from what to what?
hard to say if it's great if MS doesn't seem interested in getting them to me.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Even if this is a good product (which I don't think it is -- have fun running Autodesk or ProE or whatever with a touchscreen, I don't envy the experience), it won't change my opinion that Ballmer is a moron.
There are a lot of smart people working for Microsoft. If it weren't for Ballmer, that would probably be much more apparent.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
I remember back when it was young, and it fought against The Man.
I'm hearing everyone say it's so nice that they can finally run x86 apps on it. Well, not if it uses ASWD controls like our 3D landscape design software, unless you bring the cover/keyboard. But then it also requires a mouse wheel, 2nd mouse button, etc. So you better have a bluetooth mouse. Then does it even have the graphical power to run it? Can it run DirectX? What even are the WEI numbers for the CPU, graphics, etc?
Except you can still get an Iconia or any other vastly superior tablet with Windows 7 instead of Windows 8 and for less money.
Only Microsoft knows and so far, they aren't talking.
Yeah, all we know for sure is that it's sold so well that they don't want to tell anyone about it.
Define "poorly." Quote numbers sold and source for your data. You don't know. I don't know. Only Microsoft knows and so far, they aren't talking.
Silence is a statement.
It is easier to be cynical of words because they offer a target. Silence leaves doubt.
Corporate marketing is a typical rational actor. Silence about an event is a statement that words are less preferable.
The event may be inchoate, the words otherwise premature, or there may be no positive spin to the event.
In this case, large consumer purchases or reseller commitments are a clutch marketing figure. Any reasonable sales figures are pro-cyclical positive spin - popularity sells.
If history repeats itself, as marketeers are wont to do, the problem is predictable: sales numbers are unspoken because they are poor.
well, kind of, it's (ships in 1-2 wks).
The 16GB Nexus 10 is also in stock, though the 32GB one isn't.
I've bought a number of CAD workstations. Cost is (almost) no object when a key designer is working full-time on new CAD designs.
Somehow, I suspect the CAD operator would really prefer a really high resolution 19" or 24" touch tablet. Even then, I think someone would have been selling some high-priced devices for this sector if the techology really worked. Personally, I think the Wacom style visual tablets appeal to more to the graphics arts people than the CAD people. I always want the Wacom tablet when I'm drawing free-hand, and never for 3-D CAD models.
Also, I can't imagine manipulating big 3-D CAD designs without a big GPU and a big monitor. Additionally, if the design needs FEA (finite elements analysis), then the surface probably doesn't have enough horsepower and a sufficiently large and high resolution screen.
... but this is ridiculous!
I never tried it, but what exactly was wrong w/ Windows ME? Unlike w/ Windows 8, the UI was the same as Windows 98, or wasn't it?
Slashdot - the only forum where the average IQ drops 50 points as soon as the letters M and S are put side by side.
I'm waiting for a topic on multiple sclerosis where someone abbreviates the term. I am going to laugh so hard when the morons start posting anti-microsoft sentiment instead of addressing a rather serious issue.
I want to know if it will run Windows for Pens? ;-}
Seriously, shouldn't support via some flavor of VM software work perfectly well? And shouldn't rewriting code for 'touch' or position input from legacy devices -- I am thinking PARTICULARLY of my old drafting-table position software and roll-up digitizers -- be a relatively simple and straightforward thing, especially with the data requirements and handling latencies being so... primitive...
I expect to find this out firsthand as soon as the usual bugs are worked out of the hardware and software, and some knowledge of the quirks of the instatiation is provided on the Web, and the initial fervor for the latest, greatest and shiniest has abated and allowed co$t to come down...
R.M.Ellsworth (Overmod) -- can't get into /. to fix login.