Slashdot Mirror
Python Trademark At Risk In Europe
mvar writes "A company in the UK is trying to trademark the 'Python' term for all things computing. The Python Software Foundation is asking for help. According to the PSF, they contacted the company in order to settle the matter but 'They blew us off and responded by filing the community trademark application claiming the exclusive right to use "Python" for software, servers, and web services — everywhere in Europe.' They now seek help from the community in several ways: By sending a letter to the EU council if you happen to work on a company that uses the Python programming language, by providing EU-published material regarding the Python language (articles etc) and/or financially supporting the PSF in the upcoming legal battle."
I don't think I'öö follow any laws anymore. It's just stupid.
"And now for something completely old and similar."
At least in the U.S., trademarks come into existence by use in commerce. Registering a trademark is a good idea, but not even a requirement (which is why you see (TM) for non-registered trademarks and (R) for registered marks).
Assuming that the Python programming language and other related marks have been used in commerce *before* this other Python outfit showed up, then they don't have to worry about losing their rights to the name. Unless Europe allows for hijacking of marks simply through registration, I don't see what the Python guys should have to worry about (unless the other "python" company was using that mark in commerce before the real Python guys were).
Notice how confusing it is to name things above because of the conflicting "Python" mark? That's why there are trademarks, because if you have these name collisions it becomes difficult to accurately identify the source of the good or service.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
they are so owned... get the popcorn!
(In Europe only mind you) to NameRippedOffByTheFuckingCocksuckersAtPythonComputerServices or whatever :P
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Everyone hits social media, hard - their name won't be worth toffee in the tech world. Which is ironically who they are trying to sell to.
Make it clear you wouldn't do business with them - and wait until they relent.
Why did the Python community drag its feet for so long on officially registering its brand-name? For the cost of approximately one hour's of lawyer's time, the low trade-mark fees 8 years ago would have been the cheapest solution to this situation. Now many many hours of lawyers' time will need to be expended to rectify the situation.
how about all of us calling this company up, several times a day, and *politely* telling them what we think? the sheer number of calls would, just from them having to answer the phone, cause them to lose money, as well as make it clear that we're not impressed.
And there's no opposition system absent prior rights, so unless these guys want to claim THEY have rights to Python, it'll just be OHIM that can stop it.
Name & shame them!
It seems as though reasonable avenues have been tried without success, so time to go for the jugular. After they get this travesty resolved they should go after the python.com domain too.
The Python trademark was registered some time ago in the US but it's unclear why the Python Software Foundation didn't do the same in the EU.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
It's protected in the UK under Common Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_off , and therefore in the entire EU, due to treaty: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_mark_law_of_the_European_Union
Is this "story" to try and get money for an hour worth of lawyer time, or just publicity for Python itself, since people are starting to not care about it that much, and they want more developers?
What did the company do that is wrong? They had the domain registered for years, why shouldn't they be allowed to make python servers? It's not like anyone who isn't an idiot would confuse python-server-hardware with python-programming-language.
Is there some back story somewhere that show the company acting dickish? When I saw the headline I was ready to grab my pitchfork (even though I'm a Ruby guy), but the "plea for help" doesn't justify any anger.
they cannot demand trademark on it because it is already in common and widespread use.
This has got to be some damn stupid 'merkins not understanding that Europe has a law system like the USA and that trademarks still have to be new and unique to be trademarked.
"But it's Europe!!! With lots of strange languages! And funny looking passports!!!!!".
Just contact the PTO where this application is going in and inform them of your use of the mark prior to their application, never mind use.
In other words, if they would have just paid the protection fee, they wouldn't have to have their fingers broken. Now its too late.
May we who are not owners of any office, but are potential consumers, start a campaign in the social media saying that we will not buy their (python.co.uk) service until they change their name?
Additionally, we would send emails to contactus@python.co.uk saying the same thing.
What do you think?
So let me get this straight:
A UK-based ISP/Cloud services company offers Linux/Windows based Cloud Servers and they think it's a good idea to name the product range after a well-known programming language?
It's a nice way to "gain the trust" of potential customers - "Yeah we're the guys that screwed over the Python community (we totally stressed them out and cost them major $ too) - buy our stuff you can trust us!"
"btw, we off Linux installed on our servers too. Ironic don't you think?"
No doubt this will gain a lot of negative publicity especially on sites like slashdot.org - you know the very people that know a lot about ISP/cloudy services!!!!!
I'm getting some popcorn.
Hosting provider isn't it....
I feel an Anonymous attack coming....
Let's see how their customers like that.
....while using free software. From the footer on the front page of the pobox.co.uk website (operated by the company concerned, according to the article):
Joomla! is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.
Nice....
I live in UK and the first association I make when encountering the word "python" is with Monty Python's Flying Circus. That would also be true of many people I know. Why would anyone want to use that as a trademark in this country when so many people will immediately think of a comedy team?
"A company in the UK is trying to trademark the 'Python' term for all things computing".
That company will know the UK law. Even if they are breaking it. After all, just because they're asking for the trademark doesn't mean they are legally allowed to get it.
Python are running around screaming ENDOFTHEWORLD!!!! because of it. For no other reason than they're idiots and think "OMG EUROPE!!! They're all foreign there and aren't American! We're DOOMED!!!".
You can have trademarks with the same name as long as they are different areas.
Just like in 'merkinland.
Years ago, the Python community should have paid the fees for the Madrid-System extension of the U.S. trademark registration to various other nations.
I'm guessing that they'd have to register it separately in all member states.
Couldn't they have done it in the WTO and made it applicable worldwide?
Your post sounds like copyright registration but Trademarks are similar but different (sorry, you'll have to look it up yourself). Also, they'll have to register Python under local US and International trademark-recognizing body. Unfortunately, the US isn't the arbiter for everything trademark/ copyright related. After the go to those steps, they will also have to define what industry the name 'Python' exists under.
Long story short, existence of prior-art isn't enough. The only "real" prior art that can be used as evidence is if it's registered with the trademark or the "international trademark" office. My experience is only with local US trademark office, that's why I don't know what the international organization is called.
Or with the still relatively few supranational bodies that do this, such as the EU. But a trademark must still be registered dozens of times all over the world, and that makes the process way messier. Of course, there are many Pythonists in the EU, and it would have had sense, but then again... It is most probably not registered in my country, or anywhere else in Latin America. Is it worth, as a previous post mentions, to pay for "an hour worth of lawyer fees" (plus the registration fee) over and over? How often must the trademark be revalidated?
...agrees or cares about its ideology!
I never liked "Python" anyway. It's a great opportunity to find a new name. A better name! May I propose: Bieberconda?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
So either you should try to abolish trademarks or you should pay up if you want one.
They paid in the USA.
does in fact access a portion of Veber's and PoBox's affiliated websites.
Is their CEO named Darl?
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
We have based our economy on financial services rent seeking for years, its about the time we got international recognition in the IP trolling sector!
Not sure if want to join Slytherin anymore.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
I went to http://www.python.co.uk/contact-python , where I found an email address and wrote them this:
I am a key decision maker for a number of clients in the field of
highly distributed computing. My clients have included [Anonymous Coward]. I am also an
active member in the Python community and fully support the PSF. The
PSF is financially supported through donations from people like me.
That money mostly goes to underwrite conferences which helps
disseminate knowledge. Cloud computing has become accessible to a far
large number of businesses, in no small part, due to their efforts.
But now some of the money that I, and other key decision makers like
me, have given will now go to legal fees towards defending trademarks.
I don't really see how having the Python brand could benefit you. How
would you view, say, an internet security firm which named themselves
Java? Either way the battle will cost the PSF tens of thousands of
pounds and, thus, alienate the community which are your customers.
If you are key decision maker in the UK, please write something similar. They must not realize what they are doing.
Is their CEO named Darl?
No, it's Derl McBrood.
It means automatic trademark dilution.
And no recourse to cease and desist letters possible.
Just a waste of money on the part of the company...
That is not entirely correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux#Copyright.2C_trademark.2C_and_naming
"In the United States, the name Linux is a trademark registered to Linus Torvalds.[5] Initially, nobody registered it, but on 15 August 1994, William R. Della Croce, Jr. filed for the trademark Linux, and then demanded royalties from Linux distributors. In 1996, Torvalds and some affected organizations sued him to have the trademark assigned to Torvalds, and in 1997 the case was settled.[114]"
In fact, the above is the first thing that came to my mind when I read the summary.
Unlike America, Europe isn't a land of lawyers, but a land of Laws. Identify the principles behind a given set of Laws, and the outcome is easy to calculate. Europe has just as many 'chancers' as the USA- the dumbo criminals milked by cynical lawyers who advise them to waste their money in hopeless schemes.
The easiest way is for the PSF to have a word with one of the insanely well connected famous computer tech personalities in Europe. Then the legs of the carpetbagger will be cut off with a rusty bandsaw.
Although these issues don't really need a lot of ground level activism and outrage to be settled the way we want, the expression of outrage and activism is good practice for the times when companies like Microsoft make a major financial effort to buy key politicians within Europe. A better cause to rally the troops behind would be the obscenity of big names attempting to persuade the naive that software purchased outright is a 'service' not a 'product', With a 'product' you OWN that particular expression of IP, be it software, or a physical device, and are free to sell it to another,
Unable to deliver your message. 553 Contact your postmaster/admin for assistance. Perhaps the PSF's Inbox is a little undersized...
"Cock Up Your Beaver" does not mean what you think. This sig is intended to clog filters and annoy do-gooders
It's also a good way to screw over your buyers.
Yes, we promised you Python webservers, and we delivered your Python webservers as promised.
No, of course you can't program them in Python. Python is an optional extra, not a standard component of a Python webserver. What you want is our PyPy webserver a totally unique and new trademarked name for our Python webserver running a Python webserver.
No, Pypy doesn't run Pypy, just standard Python. If you want Pypy, you'll need to get PyPyPyPy, a Python webserver running the PyPy Python interpreter virtualised inside a Python session.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
For the love of God, read the article!
Veber were planning on naming their servers Python, and PSF CONTACTED THEM to make them stop. Veber RESPONDED by taking out the Trademark claim t DEFEND themselves.
If PSF hadn't been so pissy about it, Veber wouldn't have had to lawyer up.
I'm going to patent a programming language "JOE" - yes JOE is the supper duper set of all programming language and one line of code
can do a millions things - bug FREE, no testing, no code review, no compilation, no need for 20 years of programming.
See JOE comming to your desktop in 2014.
maybe the thought they'll get points from ms for doing this. though fat chance since ms has it's own cloud to sell.
btw one thing they think that cloud isn't good for is "high volume data transfer scenarios.". they're selling people shit.
you know what's REALLY shitty? you have to sign up(free, sort of, they'll want your cc number) to see what os's /configurations they offer! and I'll bet you ten bucks one of them includes something with a python interpreter!
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
contactus@python.co.uk is their contact infomation on python.co.uk. Have to see how much their cloud services can handle email traffic :).
That is not entirely correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux#Copyright.2C_trademark.2C_and_naming
"In the United States, the name Linux is a trademark registered to Linus Torvalds.[5] Initially, nobody registered it, but on 15 August 1994, William R. Della Croce, Jr. filed for the trademark Linux, and then demanded royalties from Linux distributors. In 1996, Torvalds and some affected organizations sued him to have the trademark assigned to Torvalds, and in 1997 the case was settled.[114]"
In fact, the above is the first thing that came to my mind when I read the summary.
I hope that the settlement afterward included representatives from the likes of Redhat, Debian, SuSe, Slackware, and whatever other distros existed back then holding an ass kicking party with Croce as the guest of honor.
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You can have trademarks with the same name as long as they are different areas.
Just like in 'merkinland.
Considering that they are both in the IT arena where one is software for a programming language and the other is trying to get protection for web servers, software, and other stuff, then there is a conflict and possibility of confusion here.
The correct course of events that should happen is that the group that develops the Python language should protest the trademark application and present their evidence. Then whoever oversees the issuance of trademarks should look at said evidence and tell the ones trying to get the trademark to either piss off or bugger off (their choice.)
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Just like Microsoft trademarked Microsoft Windows instead of just Windows, perhaps this company should add a descriptive word before the Python name and trademark that instead. Porcelain Python perhaps?
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Because the name perl was too long?
No, it is possible to register a trademark for the whole European Community. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Trade_Mark
I like my spaghetti with source.
And who does it? Who "owns" Python and who would spend the actual time and money to do so? Without a corporate backer a lot of this gets overlooked or is too time consuming to handle. People working on open source projects prefer to work on the code usually.
Fat idiot gets it wrong AGAIN.
Trouser Python Webservers (TM)