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The End Is Near for GameStop
kube00 writes "The rumor mill is saying the next generation of consoles might not play used games. What does this mean for retailers such as Amazon, GameStop, and Best Buy? Will gamers flock to the one console that can still play used games? GoozerNation speculates if the Mayan apocalypse draws near for used game sales."
I'm not an insider or anything, but they seem to be pretty quick on their feet to adjust to the market. They're still going to sell new games and used games for PS3/360 for quite a while even after PS4/720 come out. They're also selling cards for your steam wallet and MS points etc. Probably still in the used system market as well, not to mention the nice margin on off brand controllers. If the end is coming, it'll still be a while yet.
So the article speculates that the prices of new games will come down if second hand sales become a thing of the past.
Yeah. Right. If you believe that, I have a special deal, just for you, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, you could be the proud owner of the Brooklyn Bridge for the low low price of $1000!
Publishers will sell the games for as much as they think the public will pay. They're not going to oh-so-generously drop the price of their product just because you can't resell it down the road. I guarantee you, prices will stay the same, or go up.
The rumor mill is saying that something might happen, and the question is about the possible consequences of this thing that may or may not occur.
This is too many layers of speculation to be useful for anything.
Please call me when someone knows something about anything. Thanks.
Kid-proof tablet..
> "If none of the consoles can play used games I could see the price of games coming down. AAA titles may come out at $45 or $50 instead of $60."
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
That was sooo last Baktun.
I'm sure it's too much to hope that people would just not buy the new consoles...
Developers/publishers *need* to fight back against pre-owned, as game retailers really started to take the piss, and it's really been hurting the people who make the games. This isn't about stopping friends sharing games or selling them privately on eBay, although sadly these users will suffer too.
This is to stop retailers going to great lengths to sell pre-owned *instead* of new copies. Mixing new and preowned stock on the same shelf was ridiculous enough, but Iit's got to the point where you try to buy a new copy of a game, and they're actively pushing pre-owned even at the checkout: 'Are you sure you want a new copy? This pre-owned one is $2 less!'
This directly hurts publishers and developers, who need the new sales and make no revenue from pre-owned. Publishers have been way to slow and scared to respond, they should have clamped down much earlier. After all, it's never happened to this extent with music or DVDs, and I expect that the music/movie industry would be very quick to stamp these sort of practices out if pre-owned sales were being pushed in the same way.
In the EU and especially in Germany it is allowed to resell used copies of licenses of software and games.
You are explicitly allowed to buy high volume licenses and resell them individually (e.g., oracle and windows licenses).
It's like MS bundling IE and Media Player with Windows in the EU. Either they pay high fines (900 millions or more) or they
comply with the law in the EU.
While the wording is pretty excessive, I do not think this post deserves a flamebait mod. Only that it's not limited to gamers.
And I even count myself as one of those idiots... I'm still buying Assassin's Creed games on PS3 even though I've been burned by Ubisoft repeatedly AND there hasn't been an AC game I've truly enjoyed since AC2.
So yeah, I'm pretty dumb. I acknowledge that fact.
What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game. I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
in the courtroom challenging first sale rights, click/shrink wrap licenses, etc. perhaps also format/device shifting, drm and circumvention of it to preserve customer rights... heck, even privacy and user tracking could be a part of it (that is one reason why the push to online-everything.. it's easier to track and report)
but the case will drag on for so long, that most of the readers here will be so old and arthritic they won't be able to play video games anymore anyway other than things like freecell.
when the supreme court does finally hand down a ruling, though, it _will_ be monumental (for the better, or the worse) and completely change how not only video games are sold, but also other software, digital goods (software, music, movies, books, etc) that are fast replacing physical ones, and the used/lending/rental markets for all of those (including ordinary public libraries and person-to-person lending).
Hopefully this leads to people (re)discovering the PC as a gaming platform, so PC gamers can stop being held back by these stupid console ports that are written for hardware that was commodity level 6 years ago.
Maybe if enough people switch back to the PC for all their gaming needs, we can finally get Valve to release HL2 Episode 3.
The last time I was in a GameStop (on Market St. in San Francisco) I was surprised at the near complete transition that had been made. Sure, they sold games. But right in front of the store were a ton of used iPhones, iPads, iPods, Galaxy tabs... And I got the impression they were driving more interest than anything else in the store.
... idiots. I've watched them give money hand over fist to companies that are screwing them blind. When games went mainstream shit went downhill, the fact that gamers put up with such onerous bullshit because they are so addicted and stupid is why we can't have nice things.
I can say the exact same thing about people who pay thousands of dollars for metal sticks and special shoes to hit a little ball around a grassy field. Or people who pay hundreds of dollars for the privilege to slide down a snow-capped mountain with two expensive sticks strapped to their feet for a day. Seems all those sports assholes have ruined a free ride for the rest of us.
Entertainment is entertainment. If people want to waste money on something, they're going to, so stop trying to target gamers who give money "hand over fist". They sure as hell aren't the only ones, and are likely on the low end of the scale when it comes to frivolous waste.
so if your console breaks you also lose all your games? sweet!
``If a program can't rewrite its own code, what good is it?'' - Mel
I completely concur. Addicted gamers, unsurprisingly, lack self-discipline enough to make thoughtful decisions even about that which affects them the most.
If someone were to make that part of their legal argument, it could do a lot to convince a jury that all of this game DRM is simply anti-consumer. After all, addicts of various sorts are both exploited and assisted. In many states, a gambling addiction hotline is announced with every lottery ad. We have banned cigarette ads in almost every medium and alcohol ads in almost as many.
People should be 100% entitled to keep the data/media they pay for. This should be required by law. They should be able to save it and hand it down to their kids or donate it to a library or a museum. Our culture and human history is being erased in the future so that people at present can theoretically make a few extra dollars.
While there's a lot of games out there that I admit are a bunch of recycled crap (usually the next cycle of FPS games), there's still quite a few metaphorical diamonds in the rough.
For the money, gaming provides some of the least expensive entertainment around. Sure, paying $60 for the latest Call of Duty title with a 6-hour singleplayer campaign ends up being not terribly worthwhile from a cost-value perspective, but paying $25 for Portal 1 and 2? Well worth it. I find games like the Half-Life, Fallout, and Mass Effect series (to name but a few) to be enjoyable, replayable, and quite cost-effective entertainment.
Am I an addict? Not at all. I just enjoy the more interactive entertainment that gaming provides than a more passive form of entertainment like watching a movie.
However online app stores tend to sell/rent/license new games at a cheaper rate.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
That would be a clear and definite restriction on the right to resell (Specifically, the deliberate crippling of products to disrupt the standard commercial rights of the purchasers) which would near certainly be a case rapidly lost by the crippling companies in the EU.
American courts, somewhat trickier to call. Precedent, law and logic all say this is unacceptable behaviour, but it's unacceptable behaviour by a rich corporation, so...
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game
Unless your name is GeoHot, no you're not.
And if your name is GeoHot, no you're not, until it's been out already for five years.
I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
No, sorry, that's not how it works. You haven't "truly enjoyed" an AC game since AC2? So you're looking for some deep fulfillment from these games that they are no longer providing? And you think the problem is the games?
If I can't buy 2nd hand on the xbox I may seriously consider stumping up for a PS4
Dead Space 1 - Awesome
Dead Space 2 - Urgh, really?
Dead Space 3 - Gears Of War with buckets on their heads.
But I'll still buy it because sucker.
Except - SECOND HAND!!! WOO!
You can buy the sticks, shoes and even pieces of wood on the used market for a lot cheaper. ,but the price there arises from manufacture - the sticks costing thousands of dollars tend to be made from light, hard alloys with mechanical properties to fit the job.
And, sure, there's a markup to make it rentable
... they are addicts
Gamers act pretty much the same way drug addicts do ...
No matter how many times they were screwed by the dealers, them addict will always go back to the dealers and buy more drugs
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
... idiots. I've watched them give money hand over fist to companies that are screwing them blind. When games went mainstream shit went downhill, the fact that gamers put up with such onerous bullshit because they are so addicted and stupid is why we can't have nice things.
How is paying for entertainment being an idiot? People pay $50-$100 a month to have TV shows to watch. People pay up to $50 for two to go see a movie ONCE. Its not like a smoker who spends $50 a week to kill themselves, or some drinker who spends $50 a week drinking their intelligence away.
That's redundant, what else is on Slashdot these days? :)
none
You all have a short memory. Its not the new gamers or even the new hardcore games that have a problem. There were exactly two industries that signaled the public at large was willing to accept degraded use rights to products in the name on content protection. Games and home video.
This goes back to the 80's, when games came with silly little start up questions like "what is the third word on page 20 of the manual." Games usually had substantial dead tree manuals at the time. Then the started coming with little card board decoder rings and such. After that clever ideas like key disk showed up, were the disk they sent had specific problems on some sectors, or perhaps the FAT had been molested in some unique way; so that in theory if you copied it the problems would not be there. So you had to insert this special broken disk every time you wanted to play; even if you had allocated some of your precious 40meg hard disk to it.
Then everyone mindless bought VHS tapes with macro-vision on them that were difficult to duplicate and had an inferior quality as well; without complaint.
The sad fact is most people don't think about this stuff or care. I am not sure what is to be done about it, but considering all the folks clamoring to get hold of the next walled garden device, be it a phone, game console, whatever and at the same time letting facebook be their personal information manager I think the ship has perhaps sailed a long time ago.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Depending on how they implement the "no used games" feature, it may be contrary to European law. There was a ruling against Oracle last year saying it is perfectly fine to resell second-hand software:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-16/second-hand-software-sales-set-to-soar-on-oracle-ruling
What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game. I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
No need to hack things to try before you commit to purchase. There's rental services like Gamefly. Additionally, there is some controversy over whether or not game demos hurt game sales. In my experience: They do. My own anecdotal experience: Same product in different distribution markets, the one without a demo = more sales; I tried again with a different product and switched the markets where the game demo was available... Less sales again in the one with the trial version, so it's probably not just the market; This even holds true for software other than games.
The problem is that we're done with demos. Demos are obsolete. It's hard to make a demo that leaves you unsatisfied enough to buy the game, but not unsatisfied enough to think the game is crap. So, the answer is simple: Refunds. On the mobile software markets like Android If you buy a game and don't like it you can just return it. This is better because it retains more impulse buy sales, takes less time to develop (no need to make a demo version), and is just as risk free as "try before you buy". I guess folks that don't have the money won't be able to play it, but they're not going to buy it anyway, see also your "hack the planet" idea as an alternative for these folks...
The problem is that Console makers don't want to embrace the concept full refunds if you don't like the game. Even on the upcoming OUYA console (if it ever ships) they mandate that all games must at least have a demo (or be free to play) -- The full game can not be purchased from the store, it must be unlocked by in app purchases. Unfortunately their whole market revolves around free to play, so it's basically a hack to make a regular game actually have a demo version and a full version. I haven't heard whether they'll allow full refunds or not, but since they mandate game have a "free" version I don't think you'll be getting the option to refund a purchase if the game doesn't live up to the expectations set by the demo.
Not even Steam allows refunds; Apple's App Store and Canonical's Software Center do have refunds, but you have to contact them and the refunds aren't guaranteed. I wish everyone just used the model Google Play does: Full refund if requested within $INTERVAL minutes. Currently Google has that set to 15, but I wish it were at least 30, or 45 -- IMO, that's the best option.
I feel your pain, and wish there was something us game devs could do. I buy Indie games and do so directly from the game devs' websites. Most indie devs I've dealt with will refund your purchase without question if it's possible for them to do so. Even had one pay me back via Paypal transfer rather than charge back (they were incapable). They typically have demos or alphas and are much cheaper than store-bought AAA games. Full disclosure, I'm an independent software and game developer.
What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game. I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
You could always just wait. After a year or so the prices come down, the bugs are as fixed as they're gonna get, and word of mouth will tell you whether the game is worth the time. There's nothing that says you *have* to play the latest and greatest games the moment they come out.
Visit the
I dunno, go outside and have fun in the real world for a change?
How much of the current tendency against outdoor recreation is due to "stranger danger" hysteria among parents? And how much is because the gift-giving season is in a part of the year when temperatures are too cold for vigorous outdoor recreation throughout much of the developed world?
After a year or so the prices come down, the bugs are as fixed as they're gonna get, and word of mouth will tell you whether the game is worth the time. There's nothing that says you *have* to play the latest and greatest games the moment they come out.
While following that strategy on a Sony console, I've never been able to get online play to work. All I've been able to get is an error message stating that "this software title is not in service."
Game publishers need to get realistic about the price of games. Take this week's release of "Metal Gear: Revengance". It's a mediocre game for $60 (+tax). And it's four hours long. I can't think of a lot of entertainment that occurs in your own home, on a couch for as much as $16/hr.
(Oh, even at $0.99, games bitch and moan about games being too expensive, too... the fun of being a mobile developer...)
How much of that is due to Android phone manufacturers having launched their phones in countries where Google didn't yet have a payment infrastructure? That's what happened with Android Market in the early days of Android: ad-supported became the norm because so many countries were shut out of paid applications entirely.
Nonsense--you can't drink your intelligence away on only $50 a week!
Bottles.
Plenty of games had places where you would be required to look up something in the manual to prevent game copying. Some were more blatant, like the "What is the 3rd word on page 20?" mentioned above. (I remember encountering this in one of the Carmen Sandiego games.) Others somehow tied it it to the actual gameplay. I remember the Star Trek adventure game; every time you were directed to warp to a specific system, you were shown an incredibly complex "star map" and you'd have to click on the target system, but none of the systems were labeled on screen. You'd have to consult the star map in that manual, where the systems were actually labeled.
Since you mention Leisure Suit Larry, I'll mention another game by the same team, Freddy Farkas, Frontier Pharmacist. At several stages of the game, you'd have to consult the "Pharmacy Handbook" that was bundled with the game in order to solve a puzzle. It might be looking up the exact sequence to mix up a specific medicine, or comparing the results of a gas chromagraph with several pictured in the handbook to determine why all the horses in town had gas.
Redundancy is good And also good.