iOS 6.1.3 Beta 2 Patches evasi0n Jailbreak

hypnosec writes "Apple released iOS 6.1.3 beta 2 to developers, patching at least one of the vulnerabilities used by evasi0n thereby rendering the jailbreak tool useless — the time zone settings vulnerability. David Wang aka @planetbeing, has confirmed that iOS 6.1.3 beta 2 does patch one of the vulnerabilities that they exploited in their evasi0n tool."

Comments

The Apple Monoculture:

[Hartree]

Apple: Doing our best to remind you it's OUR gadget, not yours.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[cshark]

Right. That's exactly it. It's a clear message to power users, and it's hard to mistake it for anything else. What they're saying is, "don't buy our gadgets."

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[amicusNYCL]

I've always wondered why jailbreaking exists. If people wanted to do whatever they wanted to their phones, why would they get an iPhone? The reason I've never even considered an iPhone is because of Apple's attitude towards it.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[cshark]

Well, the way I remember it, jail-breaking came about because someone noticed that you can run a full on unix command line on an i-phone. This was before we had Android phones, and it was really fucking novel at the time. I can't tell you how many times I had to sit there, and hear the fan boys ask me things like, "So, can you ssh into your Nokia?" To which I always told them, "Look dude, if I wanted a command line, it would have a real fucking keyboard."

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

because they think the software is better

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[dreamchaser]

I've always wondered why jailbreaking exists. If people wanted to do whatever they wanted to their phones, why would they get an iPhone? The reason I've never even considered an iPhone is because of Apple's attitude towards it.

It shouldn't matter. If you buy something it is yours, and you should be able to do whatever you want with it. I prefer Android (I use an Asus Transformer Prime as my tablet) but work gave me an iPhone. I don't care for it, but not because of the walled garden. I just like Android better. That being said, if I did decide to buy my own iOS device I should be able to do whatever I want with it and its software. That is why jailbreaking exists.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[EzInKy]

If people wanted to do whatever they wanted to their phones, why would they get an iPhone?

Perhaps Apple's view is to let those who can, do....and those who can't don't?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet, for any other computer system, we would call patching vulnerabilities a good thing.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Microlith]

That's obviously not Apple's view. Their view is obviously that no one does anything without Apple's permission.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[MightyYar]

Most Android devices are locked, too. Sometimes you buy a product for other considerations and if you can root it... great.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Microlith]

Isn't it such terrible irony?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[cheater512]

They didn't know about the N900? The one where you could ssh in and had xterm installed by default?

Yeah it had a real keyboard too. :P

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[cheater512]

Few are locked properly. 95% get rooted with no troubles.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[hovelander]

I've always wondered why jailbreaking exists. If people wanted to do whatever they wanted to their phones, why would they get an iPhone? The reason I've never even considered an iPhone is because of Apple's attitude towards it.

Because Jony Ive makes a super spanky tablet and all the developer love is initially born in iOS. I hate the walled garden and jailbroke because of it, but Holy
Chocolate Buddha if it isn't the best build quality of all the tablets right now.

If Google finally did something with the red headed Moto stepchild and brought out a RAZR inspired tablet with substantial battery life? I might be there when it happens in a few years. (Why they drag their feet here, I have no clue.)

So in short, it's the sexiest tablet going atm. That'll change, (and that time is close).

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Microlith]

Caveats, caveats everywhere.

Android, even on devices with a locked bootloader, allows for installation of software from sources other than the Play Store. On iOS devices, you cannot install any software from sources other than the App Store, period.

Android vendors that lock the bootloader quite often catch a lot of shit, so I don't really see how this is equivalent.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Microlith]

The iPhone and its local SSH server predated the N900 by about 2 years.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[AK Marc]

What should someone do if they like the iPhone, but can't get AT&T? My solution (for my wife's phone, I'm on Android), was to get an iPhone and jailbreak it. This was before there was any "legal" way to buy an unlocked one.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[fredprado]

A pity they are sadly mistaken.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[EzInKy]

Are you sure you just don't have Apple wrong? They could be just out to improve the species! Those that figure out how to work around their lockdowns get to proceed, those that don't, don't.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[fredprado]

It would be a nice argument and all if a locked Android phone wasn't about as permissive as a jailbroken iPhone.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[fredprado]

When the vulnerabilities are a desired feature that tells a lot about the manufacturer's policies.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[DigiShaman]

Depends on if you believe in the concept of a 'contract' or not. The problem isn't that Apple refuses to let you use the hardware as you see fit. The problem is that Apple hasn't clarified the expected and blatant terms of use. It's pretty obfuscated if you ask me.

Let me give you an example of future GPU (Video cards) and CPU technology. Suppose the yields are so good, and yet the R&D costs are naturally expensive. What if there was just one hardware production run whereas "cores" are unlocked based on the serial code you enter into the BIOS. Want an upgrade? Upgrade your serial code. It saves you money, it saves the manufacture money. Impulse purchasing and upgrading all from the seat of your desk. Everyone wins right? Economic theory would say yes. But the idea you own the hardware - yet can't touch it (because you're not licensed for it) is a big taboo among crowd here.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Kyusaku Natsume]

Yeah, it is not like the vulnerabilities used by jailbreak tools could ever be also used by malware or anything.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Kyusaku Natsume]

For most people phones -of any kind- are appliances. For them the lack of freedom to run any arbitrary code is a good feature, and are well served by Apple's model.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, how dare they patch bugs in their software so that they can be bitched at for having buggy software.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[dissy]

No not really. Once you jailbreak, either Cydia or the jailbreak tool itself patches the hole it used in that OS image. It is fixed until you wipe the device and start over.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Kyusaku Natsume]

On the plus side, there is no need for antivirus software in devices running iOS, something that I saw advertised prominently the last time I was in Akihabara. Certainly, the rules to get a iOS developer license could be relaxed in such a way to demand less than $100 for it and make room for hoobists, but locked down nature of the devices and the efforts made to get accountability from the developers are a service to Apple's customers.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[happylight]

And what about the vast majority of the iphones out there that aren't jail broken?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Moridineas]

LOL, the few, the proud--N900 fanboys. Great slapdown :)

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

My Nexus One was a piece of shit compared to the iPhone which replaced it. Not just the buggy glitchy software, but the camera, battery, call quality and pretty much everything else.

One of these days I'll pick up an Android 4 device and see how things have improved, but as 1-2 years ago iOS won hands-down.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Celeritas 5k]

Because it's a very well engineered, designed, and optimized phone, and a jailbreak always comes out sooner or later.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet both are made from the same chinese parts.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[LocalH]

Guess that means that effectively, jailbroken iOS devices can be safer than stock, depending on the practices of the user.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Microlith]

Slapdown? Just pointing out fact. My N900 and N9 still see regular use and will until something I actually want to buy comes along.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Microlith]

On the plus side, there is no need for antivirus software in devices running iOS

There's no need to run antivirus software on Android either.

something that I saw advertised prominently the last time I was in Akihabara.

Are you sure they didn't mean Mac OS X? Cause that was the claim for the longest of times.

Certainly, the rules to get a iOS developer license could be relaxed in such a way to demand less than $100 for it and make room for hoobists, but locked down nature of the devices and the efforts made to get accountability from the developers are a service to Apple's customers.

Or they could offer a simple switch enabled in the environment or from iTunes that lets end users do as they wish. It would have no impact on most people because the App Store is far too easy. But they won't, because Apple enjoys having absolute control over end users, developers, and their interactions.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[jonwil]

Please explain what makes the Nexus 7 and Nexus 10 tablets worse than an iPad...

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

The new Crapple iDrool 5 helps you to think even less so you can spend more time staring at the wall.

Crapple producta, the next best thing to a lobotomy.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Nokia tablet+bluetooth tethering was an option around the time of the iphone's release(unless such features were new in os2008 of course), and i'm curious to know whether or not there was an SSH client available for the old Nokia communicator devices in the 90s.
Oh, what about palms and jornadas, did those have any kind of data connectivity for use with mobile phones, come to think of it, what about the zauruses, or treos, it's sad to think how many failed(commercially) attempts were made at ultraportable computing before the iphone came along and got it right for the masses.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[the_B0fh]

Very astute observation. And these parts are made of silicon, copper and even gold!!!

And you know what, all humans are made up of nerve cells and other cells.

Some combinations work better than others, and some, as you demonstrate, are clearly harder to work with.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[the_B0fh]

you used to sell IBM printers, didn't you?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[FyRE666]

I own a Nexus 7, Nexus 10 and the latest iPad (also owned previous iPads, iPhones, and numerous other Android phones/tablets). The build quality and battery life of the iPad is certainly higher than the Nexus devices. It's pretty obvious if you've used both extensively. I've also had more glitches on the Android devices (e.g. current Google Nexus phone not ringing when people call after it's been running for a week or so, sometimes staying on lock screen when a call comes in, occasional UI quirks). Also the iPad mail app is much better than the Android offerings. Nexus 7 has terrible sound quality through external speaker - not a show stopper, but really should be addressed.

That said, I much prefer using the Android devices for day to day use. I also spend far more time developing for Android than iOS (in fact let my iOS dev license expire now) and I recommend Android to clients for the type of work I do - my apps are generally not available to the public. I hate being tethered to iTunes, forced to distribute apps via the Apple iTunes store, and Apples general lack of innovation or improvement (not adopting NFC for example).

So that's my experience; day to day I carry a Nexus 7 around with me, along with my Nexus phone. If I'm anticipating doing a lot of email, I'll either take my laptop, or the iPad2 instead. Im not a fanboi of either camp - just use what I think is most suitable.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree, otherwise you could buy a whole bunch of smoke detectors and build your own unsafe nuclear reactor in the back yard! As if that would ever happen, though...

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[tlhIngan]

I've always wondered why jailbreaking exists. If people wanted to do whatever they wanted to their phones, why would they get an iPhone? The reason I've never even considered an iPhone is because of Apple's attitude towards it.

Because the walled garden is just one aspect of the entire thing. If you want a decent phone with a screen that's not humongous and actually usable single-handedly, your options are REALLY limited. A phone with a 4" or smaller screen on Android doesn't exist if you want a decent CPU, lots of RAM, and a high-res screen.

Basically, if you want something like a flagship Samsung Galaxy S III has but in a screen that's smaller, it doesn't exist in the Android realm.

Or perhaps the user likes the way iOS does things compared to Android. It's a phone, after all, and if the user is frustrated with Android, no amount of software freedom will convince them it's better.

Lots of reasons - the whole "software freedom" is really just a minor aspect in analyzing what device suits a user best.

Or put another why - why do people choose Windows over Linux? Why do they install Windows 7 over WIndows 8, when they can install Linux? Hell, I develop Linux code using Windows - my Linux box sits headless beside me and I use Samba and gVim/Win32 and SSH windows because I find X clunky, slow, ugly and really poor font rendering.

Jailbreaking is often a bonus, as well. 7M jailbroken iOS 6 devices is a drop compared to all the iOS devices out there.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[mwvdlee]

So... how much do you need to pay Apple to unlock an iPhone?

Unlike you GPU/CPU analogy, this is about paying full price for the hardware but not even being able to pay in order to access all of it.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[fredprado]

You are exaggerating, but even if you weren't we are talking about now not 2 years ago. LG, HTC and specially Samsung high-end phones are considerably superior to the iPhone in pretty much everything.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably, but the iphone worked better during the early adopter phase, while Android left some bad impressions, and Apple will hang onto those users for life.

And actually, smartphones have already gotten boring. I can't think of any reason I'd want a faster/better one when my 4S works perfectly for everything I need. Calls/texts work perfectly, the browser is fast, and the camera is better than my old P&S. (Maybe half the thickness or twice the battery length would be worth an upgrade.)

Wintel strung out the upgrade cycle for 25 long years, but these stupid phone manufacturers perfected their product in 5.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[SilenceBE]

Because of the bigger range of quality apps to be honest.

And btw I'm an android developer but my main tablet for example is still an iPad. The thing that harms andriod seriously is fragmentation, bad documentation (quality, not quantity) , less strictness which results that a lot of hw companies are sloppy, weak support for older devices, no really good design guidelines,... . For me it is the Drupal of the mobile world. Not a bad platform, but it sometimes drives me nuts.

People that say things like "they think the software is better... And are greatly mistaken" have never used the two platforms on a daily basis. Android is slowly getting there, but the really big problem is that a lot of devices are still suck on 2.3 gingerbread. It would be nice if android hw companies would support their older devices as Apple does with older hardware. An iPad 1 being stuck on iOS 5 is nothing in comparison with a lot of android situations. And the number of normal people (non geeks) that root their phone is zero to none.

To be honest with Android I have the feeling that a lot of love gets into the advertisment or google services part of the os, but it lacks in the other departements. The Android API (especially the older versions) sometimes amazes me in stupidity.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Except, the trend is strongly leaning towards you just leasing the product, or the software on said product. You don't actually own it anymore.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[epyT-R]

because many have bought an iphone or other closed device, then later found out about the coolness of running alternative software..

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[purpledinoz]

Apple: All your iGadgets, are belong to us!

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[AK Marc]

There are viruses and anti-virus for Android. The closest to that is a small amount of malware for iOS that requires jailbreaking and manually installing. Apple is safer for not offering the choice.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a bad idea. You are giving someone more than they paid for. This just shows that your product is worth a whole lot less than you say it is if you can afford to give away a box full of upgrades. This is bad for both sides, people feel they are being played and they are. If it is worth it for you to produce all this excess product in the hopes of getting people to pay you again it would be worth it to just unlock the machine for free after purchase. It is bad for you because people usually don't upgrade, they usually break the machine and just toss it in the garbage where you will never be able to sell it's upgrades. Then who owns it?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[gl4ss]

Right. That's exactly it. It's a clear message to power users, and it's hard to mistake it for anything else. What they're saying is, "don't buy our gadgets."

they already said so when they made it a policy.

the idea that they'd on purpose leave these breaks in for power users is laughable idiocy. of course they're going to patch them. you want to play with the devices then you pay the developer fee.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[gl4ss]

Nokia tablet+bluetooth tethering was an option around the time of the iphone's release(unless such features were new in os2008 of course), and i'm curious to know whether or not there was an SSH client available for the old Nokia communicator devices in the 90s.
Oh, what about palms and jornadas, did those have any kind of data connectivity for use with mobile phones, come to think of it, what about the zauruses, or treos, it's sad to think how many failed(commercially) attempts were made at ultraportable computing before the iphone came along and got it right for the masses.

there were ssh clients for the communicators and before ssh telnet/modem terminal(in the '90s..).

as to full commandline mobiles.. well, zauruses before iphones but they didn't come with gsm radios. windows mobiles did though, but the fanboiz would rather buy apple.

.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for the UI in 4.0 is there any big change wrt 2.3 API that owuld be needed by most basic apps?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Build quality for a start, as well as build materials. Oh, and battery life.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[sapphire wyvern]

The primary use case for my tablet is reading documents. For that, the 4:3 retina screen is better than the 16:9 and 16:10 screens on all the Android tablets I'm aware of.

If there's an Android tablet with a 4:3 high DPI screen (1024x768 does not cut it for US Letter or A4 typeset documents in single page full screen mode), I'd be interested to hear about it, because I like Android better than iOS for a variety of reasons.

Also, can anyone recommend a great PDF app for Android? I use GoodReader on my iPad and it renders complex PDFs very sharply and extremely fast. I haven't found anything with that kind of rendering speed on Android yet, and I want a better reader app for my Galaxy Note 2. I don't actually care about all the annotation features of GoodReader - I don't need a feature-complete replacement - I just want something that's blazingly fast, high resolution, and at least supports bookmarks & outlines.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[gl4ss]

"Upgrade your serial code. It saves you money,"

the consumer loses. it's not impulse buying if you already own the silicon.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[sjames]

Actually, economic theory says that in a healthy market the manufacturer would be forced to unlock all of the cores at no additional cost or have the competition eat their lunch with their better bang for the buck products.

In a healthy market, prices are driven towards the marginal cost of production.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Economics calls it a damaged good, and it's a form of price discrimination. In general, if price discrimination increases output, you will have a pareto improvement in welfare (which means no one is worse off, and at least someone is better off). I'm not sure this result applies to damaged goods, though, as it may be that the general result depends on a heterogenous product. It's been a while for me.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

N800 predates the iPhone by 5 months.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

This is exactly how our old PDP/11 machine worked. We wanted an upgrade; an engineer came over and cut a wire. Upgrade done.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[AmiMoJo]

IBM used to do exactly that. People got pissed off when they paid for a CPU upgrade to their mainframe and a man from IBM turned up to move a jumper.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[AmiMoJo]

Android is like VHS and iOS is like BetaMAX. VHS was open and anyone could implement it, resulting in some really terrible VCRs but also some really good ones. BetaMAX was pretty much limited to just Sony and eventually lost out because VHS outsold it.

BTW, having recently done some Android development I think the documentation is fine, certainly no worse than most systems. Admittedly I have not done any iOS development for comparison, but most of the people raging about Android on Stack Exchange are the ones who don't really get the mobile app paradigm.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[AmiMoJo]

You know the Nexus 10 has a better-than-retina DPI screen, right? And that 16:10 is actually ideal for viewing A4 documents in portrait (full screen) or landscape (side-by-side), right?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess what? My native language is not in iOS and I need to jailbreak to have it supported!!!

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[AmiMoJo]

The Nexus 10 is on a par with any iPad for build quality. The Nexus 7 does feel a little bit less high end but then again costs half what an iPad Mini does, and it has a better screen. It is by no means cheap and the textured back cover makes it very easy to hold.

Battery life seems about the same for each, except that you can replace the Nexus 7 battery easily so there is no need to go easy on it.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

"Upgrade your serial code. It saves you money,"

the consumer loses. it's not impulse buying if you already own the silicon.

So you actually think that for the manufacturer to physically damage unused cores, and thus you must replace the chip if you want to upgrade, at a higher price, is a BETTER approach?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm of two minds on this: While I dislike the fact that they probably took this action simply to block Jailbreaking, part of me has to admit that patching security vulnerabilities shouldn't ever be punished.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[coinreturn]

Yeah, it is not like the vulnerabilities used by jailbreak tools could ever be also used by malware or anything.

This. All the fandroids cry, "Apple is bad at security - just look at the jailbreaks!" Then Apple plugs the jailbreaks and they all rage, "Apple is evil, closing the jailbreaks!" No matter what Apple does, it's bad in the eyes of the raging fandroid. If Tim Cook announced that he wiped his ass north-to-south, they'd be complaining he didn't do it south-to-north.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[sosume]

No - The best approach would be to just deliver the product with all four cores intact and market it as such.
Your proposition is like selling oranges, but 75% of the orange contains poison. You can only neutralize the poison with a specific antidote, only provided by the farmer, and otherwise you can only eat 25% and will have to throw the 75% away. That means that your product is now 75% waste. and thus could have been produced at 25% of the cost. I do not think that economists would find your process a very efficient approach.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is safer for not offering the choice.

This shouldn't be Apple's choice to make. Anyone that's doing anything with their iDevice that requires a jailbreak should already know the risks involved.

they could offer a simple switch

This. All it would require on Apple's part is a disclaimer. They already have a simple mechanism in place for restoring devices should something go wrong.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[geminidomino]

I can't speak for those two, specifically, since I passed them up when I learned they were going the stupid route of "no sd cards." Compared to the tablets I *have* used, though, from the lowly Asus A200(work) to the Samsung Note 10.1(returned) to the Transformer Infinity(owned), on the other hand, the iPad(work) is superior in just one very important aspect:

"Keyboard" responsiveness. I don't know if Android's keyboard process needs to be niced a little lower or what, but when I'm out-typing the system on a goddamn virtual keyboard, something's wrong.

Thankfully, CyanogenMod 10 improved it a little bit on the Infinity, so it's at least usable, but damn if I wouldn't love the iPad's keyboard on Android (the rest of the whole sterilized iExperience can go hang).

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[MightyYar]

Caveats, caveats everywhere.

Yes, well, such is the nature of comparing a very specific product (the iPhone) with a line of hundreds of very diverse products. I had two iPhones, and now I have an Android (as well as a Kindle Fire HD... not sure if that counts as Android).

Anyway, I find both environments very lacking without root. I've also found the alternative Android markets to be mostly crap, even going so far as to install the Google market on my Kindle.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[MightyYar]

My challenge on Android has been to find a good backup scheme without root. With the iPhone you got backup "automatically" through iTunes.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Right. That's exactly it. It's a clear message to power users, and it's hard to mistake it for anything else. What they're saying is, "don't buy our gadgets."

Yeah, power users, if you don't like fixes for vulnerabilities, go buy Android!

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

IBM still does exactly that. People get pissed off when they paid for a CPU upgrade to their mainframe and a man from IBM turns up to move a jumper.

FTFY. I am pretty sure the P6's we have at work are fully populated with ram but we only paid for half of it, so that's what we get.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[darjen]

I've never had a virus on my Android phone. I think as long as you don't install shady stuff from the play store or random apks from the web I think you should be ok.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Ash Vince]

Android, even on devices with a locked bootloader, allows for installation of software from sources other than the Play Store.

Only if you turn that feature on. Most devices default to not allowing this and throw up a warning if you try and enable it. You are free to ignore the warning but then it is your own dumb fault if you screw up.

I just checked my Samsung Galaxy S3 and I never seem to have needed to allow the installing of untrusted apps after 6 months of ownership so I probably never will.

The real "problem" with Android is that Google leave the play store far more open than the Apple equivalent and force users to engage their brain even when installing stuff from the store. This is one of the things I actually like about Android since I have no problem doing some basic Google research any time I want to install an app.

The alternative is go the Apple way and find you are not allowed to install certain things just because Steve Jobs (or one of his successors) did not agree with whatever it is you wanted to install (like maybe a flash player). There might be very few apps withdrawn on a whim by some twat at Apple but if there is a single one then that is too many by my book.

Some people do not want to research any apps they install on their phone and want to be able to browse a limited list of apps and know that anything they see is perfectly safe and is being regularly vetted by Apple. For them an iphone is a good fit, that is just not me.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[fredprado]

Considering you have access to the user file system you just need a normal PC backup application to backup user data, and calendar, contacts and tasks are synchronized to the cloud by default whenever you connect to the Internet.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Bill_the_Engineer]

As much money as you paid for that phone, I sure hope you do get your money's worth. It appears that you did. This is what everyone should expect from their phone regardless of manufacturer or OS.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[drinkypoo]

I've also found the alternative Android markets to be mostly crap, even going so far as to install the Google market on my Kindle.

I think the Amazon Appstore is pretty great, but the Amazon Appstore App is a total piece of shit. It fires off and then chokes when I'm not using it so that I get popups about how it's not responding.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Unlocking is not the same as jailbreaking. You can buy an unlocked phone from Apple at the unsubsidized price. However you can not purchase a jailbroken phone.

Jailbreaking is only important for a small percentage of users. It's about the same percentage as Android phone owners rooting their phone.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[drinkypoo]

Android phones' important data gets backed up, and any apps you have downloaded from the store are available for reinstallation from the list of stuff you've previously installed. So while you can't back up system apps without root, you don't really need to, either.

I wouldn't buy a device I couldn't root, not just because of backups but because it's my goddamned device. So to me, this is a non-problem.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Bill_the_Engineer]

In a healthy wireless market we would be paying a lower price for service as well as paying a reasonable price for a phone. The market is unhealthy on two fronts.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[crazyjj]

You will bow down before Apple, users, no matter that it takes an eternity! YOU WILL BOW DOWN BEFORE APPLE!!!

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[MachineShedFred]

Yeah! Screw them for patching vulnerabilities that allow code execution and privilege escalation!

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Have one put together by a child, with no supervision, and the other by a well paid technician. Same parts. Would you expect the same result?

Not all manufacturers have the same rejection rates...

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Swearing makes you cool.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[smash]

Except they're not. They're both made form parts in china, but not the same chinese parts. They've also got totally different firmware. Try again.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[smash]

An android phone is going to have to offer me some stupendously good KILLER feature for me to give up my application library, icloud sync with my macs and ipad, and to get me to bother to learn a different UI. Being as good or even marginally better is not good enough I'm afraid, due to my investment in the platform. I'm sure i'm not the only one in that situation. And i've yet to see an android handset actually make me want to switch.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[fredprado]

I am sad for you, but sooner or later Apple will screw you up enough for you to move away, rest assured.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[tepples]

N800 was never sold in stores where I live.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[smash]

You can "unlock" the device, assuming you have a mac to run the dev kit for 99 bucks a year. This is what I've done. I can compile/run whatever the fuck i want, and am still protected from unsigned, unvetted code, and don't have to run some dodgy hack by a third party who may or may not have trojanned the shit out of it.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Jailbreaking is only important for a small percentage of users. It's about the same percentage as Android phone owners rooting their phone.

Not quite true. I can sideload any app from anywhere onto my device without rooting it. To do that on iPhone requires

a) The dev kit, and $99 for a dev signing key; or
b) a $10k+ enterprise dev kit; or
c) a jailbreak.

So it's arguable jailbreaking/rooting for application installation is important to a larger percentage of iPhone users than Android users.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[smash]

No, the view is the device should JUST WORK without having to worry about what you install, and whether or not it will own you.

We can argue whether or not they've attained that or not, but this is the goal. The past 30 years of personal computing has proven that users need to be protected from themselves and others.

The 1% of users who jailbreak or even give a fuck about anything not on the app store or google play are not the target demographic.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[smash]

So basically you're saying so long as you don't install anything you need to jailbreak to install because it won't be allowed on google play, you're fine.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[smash]

Thats a bug, not a feature (both in apple's case, and android). If you can root the device, so can other software.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[smash]

So you've personally audited the jailbreak tool you used to make sure it hasn't installed a backdoor/trojan/timebomb/account sniffer before it patched the hole to stop someone else owning you? Thought not.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[MightyYar]

Android backup has gotten progressively better (it still does not include all of your data), but it's still a PITA to restore everything unless you have root.

I bought the Kindle Fire HD for my wife, despite there being no root at the time. And now it is rooted. But for my own devices, I'll make sure I can root before purchase from now on.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[mlts]

You hit the nail on the head. I wish Google would split the Play Store into two tiers, one tier being the current way things are done, and another tier where rules are far stricter, and Google can flick things off that tier as they see fit.

Couple this with an option on the phone warning users about leaving the "trusted" area, and this would provide similar protection that Apple's gatekeeper does, and close one of the biggest perceived holes in Android.

The problem that this fixes is that there are users who assume that if it is on a store, that it is safe to download. Apple does a good job at keeping this perception. On Android, users will download an app, not even bothering looking at permissions, and then get stung. By having a tier of "want the app here, you do it our way", Google keeps the users who don't care about permissions from shooting themselves in the foot, while users with some knowledge can flip to the other tier and find a larger selection of stuff, check perms and reviews, and go from there.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[MightyYar]

Let's just say I find it cumbersome. I feel that there should be a "sync" so that I can totally restore the device to a know point in time. Photos, music, and other downloads are not backed up at all - you have to either use a third-party app or you have to manually do backups via your computer.

Mine is rooted so I just make the occasional image. Again, with third-party tools. I find using the iPhone with iTunes to be a bit clumsy, but at least you get a full backup automatically. If you lose the phone, you go buy another one and hook it back up to iTunes and it's just like you never lost your phone. That's what I'm looking for.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[tepples]

I have one device on 4.2 and one stuck on 2.2. USB gamepads connected through an On-The-Go adapter "just work" on the 4.2 device. Or are games not "basic apps" to you?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[denmarkw00t]

I've never had a virus on my MacBook, Android Tablet, Android Phone, webOS tablet, yadda yadda. And the smart people will stay away from shady downloads. The point is that most users are not terribly smart when it comes to identifying shady vs legit, and that's where the issues with the Android Market came in. I'm not sure how good Google has been at keeping Play clean, but I always run across crap that looks like it's going to open up my internal memory and haul ass to a remote server. Apple, on the other hand, does a simultaneous service and dis-service with it's strict App Store policies. Malicious apps rarely (if ever) get through, at the cost of a slower app approval time and tighter guidelines that may (and have) thwart legitimate apps from being in the store.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[mlts]

You hit the nail on the head. I always end up rooting my Android devices to install Titanium Backup, but for a lot of people, rooting can be a very daunting task, so backups become an issue.

What would be nice from the viewpoint of an average user would be a utility that can do a nandroid type of backup, saving everything (apps, data, etc.) This image optionally could be encrypted. Restores could be done either completely (apps + data + market links), or partially (restoring single or multiple apps.) Another option that would be nice would be the ability to archive apps, so if someone is finished playing a very large game, it can be archived with the save game data, freeing up space on the device.

Then, there is music syncing. This is painless in the iOS world (buy a song or album on one device, it can propagate to the others), but doing something like copying a music library, except down-coded to 192k is very difficult on Android. The only similar thing in Android is Doubletwist's solution.

Finally, one thing iOS devices have that Android doesn't is a tight integration to a cloud provider. I can move pictures off the main camera roll to a "vault" app, which then moves the pictures to iCloud in the background. It would be nice to have similar functionality on Android, perhaps an API that would allow one to choose which cloud backend to use for each app.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

The app store

Re: The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

the Nokia e70 could ssh before the iPhone, and had a full keyboard

Also, the n900 can hold multiple ssh sessions at the same time, and those sessions can be either to or from the device. The iPhones ssh implementation is not comparable.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[denmarkw00t]

I like what Apple does with it's App Store vs Play - although I don't agree with keeping 3rd party markets out, I completely understand why they did it and why they will likely continue to do it: make the user feel safe = trust from the user = loyalty and $$$.

Android, as a brand, gets hurt every time someone's mom installs xXSudoku23BlitzXx because the name travels - your mom doesn't know what the heck a HTC Motorazrformer Prime is, but she knows she has an Android something or rather. Even worse, if malware comes from a 3rd party market, sideloading, clicking a malicious link and then somehow managing to stumble into the installer from Downloads, it all boils down to "Android Malware Rampant!" in the headlines. Openness is great PR to the folks who frequent /. - for the rest of the media world, the focus is on the bad with few and far between knowing what "open" is or why it matters.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Karlt1]

So now "patching a security vulnerability" is a bad thing?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you trust the architects of the jailbreak? Seriously, if one were going to spread malware, that's the way to do it.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[denmarkw00t]

It is by no means cheap and the textured back cover makes it very easy to hold.

Sorry to nitpick, but don't do that. Don't do a " and " - it makes it seem that either not being cheap is a good thing, or having an easy to hold cover is a bad thing.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Karlt1]

Considering you have access to the user file system you just need a normal PC backup application to backup user data, and calendar, contacts and tasks are synchronized to the cloud by default whenever you connect to the Internet.

Try this test....

1. "Backup" your Android phone
2. Completely erase your phone
3. Are all of your settings, app data, icon locations in tact?

Can you just log into your Google account from a brand new phone and all of your settings, phone log history, app data, icon positions just like they were from your old phone?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Your answer to a hypothetical situation is to say, "But other makers will kill it in the market if it doesn't make the cores all available because that's what I want, even though it's outside the scope of the hypothetical and there's plenty of instances of unique technology where similar things have happened."

You're writing wish fulfillment, not economic theory.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[sjames]

You clearly have zero understanding of economic theory. Or perhaps YOUR wish fulfilment is showing.

There ARE plenty of examples where it hasn't happened that way. That is because ........(drum roll please).....Our markets are nothing like healthy due to under-regulation.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Patching a security hole is somehow evidence that Apple is totalitarian?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[amicusNYCL]

That being said, if I did decide to buy my own iOS device I should be able to do whatever I want with it and its software. That is why jailbreaking exists.

That's my question though. You should be able to do whatever you want, so if you're one of those people who wants to do whatever they want with their phone, why would you choose a phone manufactured by a company that expends a non-trivial effort to explicitly keep you from doing what you want? It doesn't make sense to me. I think it's telling that the term is "jailbreaking". You buy a phone, and it's in jail, and if you want to use it you need to get it out of jail. How about just buying a phone that isn't in jail in the first place?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[amicusNYCL]

Perhaps Apple's view is to let those who can, do....and those who can't don't?

The continued patches by Apple to fix exploits that make jailbreaking work would suggest that your assumption is not correct. Try calling Apple support and starting off by telling them you jailbroke your phone.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[amicusNYCL]

What should someone do if they like the iPhone, but can't get AT&T?

Use a different carrier, buy a different phone, or move. If having a precious phone is less important than having a nice place to live, then pick a phone that works where you live. Your wife doesn't have a right to have an iPhone, that's a privilege. It's a privilege she may have to give up if she wants to live in a certain area. These types of trade-offs are not unique to phones, there's no reason you absolutely need an iPhone. Apple works very hard to make sure you can only use their phone like they want, so if you're going to buy one then you're also going to fund that mindset.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[amicusNYCL]

Because it's a very well engineered, designed, and optimized phone

It's not the only one. Maybe you'd like a phone that doesn't start out in "jail" in the first place, and is also well-engineered, designed, and "optimized".

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[amicusNYCL]

If you want a decent phone with a screen that's not humongous and actually usable single-handedly, your options are REALLY limited.

Not really. I've had my Evo 4G for several years and it's been just fine. You can look up the specs on it if you want to compare.

Or put another why - why do people choose Windows over Linux? Why do they install Windows 7 over WIndows 8, when they can install Linux? Hell, I develop Linux code using Windows - my Linux box sits headless beside me and I use Samba and gVim/Win32 and SSH windows because I find X clunky, slow, ugly and really poor font rendering.

That's fine, but you're not voiding a single warranty, taking advantage of a single exploit, or breaking a single contract by doing that. It's not exactly a great comparison.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[amicusNYCL]

Android is slowly getting there, but the really big problem is that a lot of devices are still suck on 2.3 gingerbread.

Why does that matter? Since we're talking about jailbreaking or rooting the phone anyway, just install Cyanogenmod and install whatever version of Android you want.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[amicusNYCL]

And why exactly are you unable to get a phone that supports your native language out of the box? You haven't given me a reason to jailbreak an iPhone, you've given me a reason not to buy one in the first place.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[amicusNYCL]

Android is like VHS and iOS is like BetaMAX.

Or MacOS versus Windows. Apple has been down this road before and already lost, and they're committed to doing it again and again. It's no surprise they do this, I just think it's weird that people buy phones that start out "in jail" and then try to break it out instead of buying a phone that's not in jail in the first place.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny schizophrenic attitudes to security holes on Slashdot. iOS holes are good because you can run untrusted code, Windows holes are bad because... you can run untrusted code.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

VHS was not open as such, but JVC chose to license it out (or manufacture for other brands). Sony chose to not license their technology.

But what is the tablet equivalent of the "can record a full movie on one tape" argument in favor of VHS?

Re: The Apple Monoculture:

[Sancho]

There are still hardware improvements to be made. The cameras, for example. The battery, too, though that will take an industry-wide tech improvement.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[fredprado]

No, you cannot from Google, but there are non root apps that will do just that for you, like Backup pro, and, of course, if you are rooted you can use Titanium Backup, which is much much better than anything possible on an iPhone, jailbroken or not.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Moridineas]

I agreed with your statement.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[fredprado]

I argue that for most people for whom backup is an issue, root is not a big deal. Most people unable to root only need backup for what is already automatically backed up.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[AK Marc]

So you are saying the person buying the device should not be given the choice of a walled-garden device? And you are complaining about choice and freedom?

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[quacking duck]

Considering you have access to the user file system you just need a normal PC backup application to backup user data, and calendar, contacts and tasks are synchronized to the cloud by default whenever you connect to the Internet.

If that's the case, then probably the vast majority of Android users don't have their device data backed up anywhere. The majority of PC users *still* don't back up their internal drives to external repository (cloud or physical), let alone set up an automated system to back up files from another external device when it's connected.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Kyusaku Natsume]

The problem with a simple switch is that many users are unable to grasp the implications of the permissions that they are granting, so they are better of without that choice. We are talking about a device that holds a large amount of personal information, the implications of bad security are far greater than being simply being p0wned. A locked down, less flexible but more secure device is a better choice for them.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Once you jailbreak it you can change the root password. Stock iphones all have the same root password.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Android is slowly getting there, but the really big problem is that a lot of devices are still suck on 2.3 gingerbread. It would be nice if android hw companies would support their older devices as Apple does with older hardware. An iPad 1 being stuck on iOS 5 is nothing in comparison with a lot of android situations. And the number of normal people (non geeks) that root their phone is zero to none.

I suspect I'm going to be redundant with many other posters, but I must note this behavior is quite likely encouraged by the major carriers. The carriers like having people on contract, supporting older hardware would mean people wouldn't have to upgrade and remain on contract. The manufacturers also like selling newer products, but I suspect the carriers may be more responsible for this behavior.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a good analogy.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Bert64]

It doesn't save anyone any money, it allows the manufacturer to price-gouge you...
They clearly make a profit selling the hardware, so then subsequently selling you an "upgrade" which is really just an unlock code allowing you to make better use of the hardware you already bought is 100% additional profit for them.

Effectively they are selling you a product which is intentionally defective, and then charging you to fix it... Such practices should be illegal.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[dissy]

Actually I have audited the first three jailbreaks I ever used. Yes that was three years ago now, but those teams have earned my trust. Perhaps once the team cycles all their members, or completely disappear from the scene, I'll have to reconsider that trust.
But until then I trust them far more than your claims against them.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Bill_the_Engineer]

You can "unlock" the device, assuming you have a mac to run the dev kit for 99 bucks a year.

I should have expounded a little more. Unlocking means being able to use the phone with a carrier other than the one where you purchased the phone. Jailbreaking is the ability to load third-party binaries from a source other than the "blessed" source (e.g. App Store).

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[DigiShaman]

Ever notice how early adopters and bleeding edge user get soaked paying a premium price? If you know anything about the computer hardware market, you know this to be true. It's called a law of deminishing returns. Just because you near spent twice the price will you rarely get twice the performance at the high end for a single purchase item. Effectively it's these of consumers that have subsidized the R&D costs for the medium to low end range of products.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

There are viruses and anti-virus for Android. The closest to that is a small amount of malware for iOS that requires jailbreaking and manually installing. Apple is safer for not offering the choice.

You can never get sick by staying inside, but some of us prefer the fresh air.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[tepples]

I wish Google would split the Play Store into two tiers, one tier being the current way things are done, and another tier where rules are far stricter, and Google can flick things off that tier as they see fit.

The other tier is called Amazon Appstore for Android.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[mlts]

Very true. However, it can be difficult to change core app stores on a device unless one "cooks" a ROM that can handle both stores from the ground up, and I don't know of any ROM that can do this.

The alternative to a two-tier system would be a ROM that had Amazon as the default, with Google's store as an alternative... but with a warning to make sure to understand what permissions are... and to read app reviews.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Kyusaku Natsume]

I would post pictures of it if slashdot could handle images. I don't know why I was modded troll, the market for antivirus for Android is far more healthy than the one for iOS. Google reports about 125,000,000 pages for "Android antivirus" and 22,200,000 pages for "iOS antivirus". As you said, you will not get virus or malware if you follow certain rules; rules that Apple forces to be followed by most if not all of its customers. On the same vein, makes sense to lock down even more OS X like they did with Mountain Lion since the vast majority of PC users view it more like an appliance, not as a tool that they must learn to use. In this environment, it becomes the manufacturer's burden to not let users shoot themselves on the foot.

Best Regards.

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[benthurston27]

He was using cheap as a synonym for low build quality which makes by no means cheap a good thing...

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[denmarkw00t]

Ah, if I could I would mod you up for the correction - I def didn't read it that way

Re:The Apple Monoculture:

[Anonymous Coward]

Doubtful that this is true. You just didn't look hard enough.

As a Midwesterner I fully expected to never see one of them. But I was walking through a compusa and there it was. About 15 miles from home.

Same thing in Chicago, i visited a dozen electronics stores. But only one had the balls to stock it.

Maybe I'm missing something...

[Opportunist]

Now, I have to admit I don't know TOO much about Apple gadgets, but ... this doesn't do anything but breaking the ability to take over ownership of the device by the person who paid for it, right?

Care to inform me why anyone should update?

Re:Maybe I'm missing something...

[dreamchaser]

Unfortunately several releases of iOS have had some pretty bad bugs. The latest was a big battery drainer, for example. That's why sometimes upgrading is unavoidable. That being said most people just blindly accept updates as they come out.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something...

[Nerdfest]

Jailbreaking is done by exploiting security holes. If the holes are left, they'll be exploited by others for less noble means. There have been a couple of jailbreaks that merely involved visiting a web site. They must be patched.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something...

[dissy]

Care to inform me why anyone should update?

Actually, now is the time to update to iOS 6.1.1 while you still can. Once Apple pushes 6.1.2 out, they won't give out the keys so iTunes can install it.

The fact evasi0n only had a limited time window available was known, but Apple has ramped up the release between to devs and to everyone. It used to be about 1.5-2 months, now it's about a week.

This is just to let everyone running a slightly older version that now is the time to update to the latest jailbreakable OS, and to run Cydia so it grabs the keys using your devices SHSH blobs so you can restore to those versions later later.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something...

[Chewbacon]

If you're talking about Jailbreakme, I believe that exploit patched itself after jailbreaking the device.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something...

[Desler]

this doesn't do anything but breaking the ability to take over ownership of the device by the person who paid for it, right?

No, it patches bugs in their software.

Care to inform me why anyone should update?

Because you don't want possible open security exploits on your phone?

Re:Maybe I'm missing something...

[KingMotley]

That is a pretty silly argument, unless in your world you expect everyone to have visited jailbreakme before they get served some malware, otherwise, yes, fixing the hole for everyone is a good idea before someone else takes advantage of it.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something...

[Anonymous Coward]

You are the owner. You can choose not to upgrade. You don't have to. Upgrades require you to say 'yes, do it!'.

Just like the PS3 OtherOS option. You aren't losing anything you bought unless you actively make a choice to take new software from the manufacture and load it on your device.

You choose to upgrade for bug fixes or features. If you really didn't want to upgrade BECAUSE of jailbreaking, its likely that the jailbreakers will make a patch for anything apple makes public as well, as shown by history.

To answer your question, you've figured out the solution, don't upgrade.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something...

[mark-t]

One thing that immediately springs to mind is that an app developer *could* theoretically, specify this as a minimum target OS, and it will not run on an earlier version, even if the application doesn't use any facilities not offered by earlier versions.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something...

[gmhowell]

Now, I have to admit I don't know TOO much about Apple gadgets,

Judging by 90% of the comments to any Apple story, that makes you the perfect person to take part in the discussion. In fact, it may be mandatory.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something...

[MachineShedFred]

Yeah. Apple is ramping up releases in order to screw over jailbreakers.

Or, there was a bug with Exchange calendaring that caused iOS devices to fill up Exchange server drives by interpreting a meeting series with no end date quite literally. I sure can't figure out why they would want to push that out as fast as possible...

Wow! Posting patches to stop jailbreaks?

[marcgvky]

For-realzies? Can't you use that brainpower to make the product more functional and fix bugs???

Re:Wow! Posting patches to stop jailbreaks?

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know Android vendors have done this too. Not all 'droids have open boot loaders.

Re:Wow! Posting patches to stop jailbreaks?

[Anonymous Coward]

For-realzies? Can't you use that brainpower to make the product more functional and fix bugs???

These are bugs dimwit. Bugs that allow access to your personal information (email, banking info etc..) and so should be fixed.

Vulnerabilities

[thadman08]

Why is there so much outrage at this? Jailbreaking works by first finding bugs and vulnerabilities and then exploiting them. Yes, Apple is preventing jailbreaking, but they're also securing their OS.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[cheater512]

Because vulnerabilities that don't allow jail breaking don't get fixed terribly quickly?

Re:Vulnerabilities

[girlintraining]

Why is there so much outrage at this?

There's this strange, antiquidated notion some people have that a device they spend hundreds of dollars on, are in physical possession of, and which contains a ton of personal information and is the de facto way for the world to get ahold of them, belongs to them. So when these social degenerates are told that they have no say in how their data is used, whether or not they're tracked, what applications they can and cannot use, etc., they get upset.

We should probably just ignore them. Such morally inferior people are just holding back innovation in this country. The idea that you own anything, even your own DNA, is stupid. No poor person should be allowed to own anything -- they'll just misuse it anyway, and deprive society of the benefit of having a corporation own the things they have instead.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be a rather smart move on their part to not send any desist letters out, and let it happen.

1. Make walled user device.
2. Allow people to poke at it and break through by not suing
3. ???
4. Free security audit!
5. Patch vulnerabilities
6. JMP 2

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Desler]

Such as?

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Darinbob]

No, you should own the device you have purchased. This does not mean however that if you jail break it due to a bug that there is any sort of moral imperative for the manufacturer to leave that bug alone. Just find a new back door to use instead.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Moridineas]

I have owned an iPhone 3GS and currently an iPhone5. I have jailbroken both of them. I was very happy when evasi0n was released, and immediately downloaded biteSMS and several other great Cydia apps.

Everyone who buys an iPhone knows exactly what they are getting in to. Nobody is conned or tricked or forced to buy an iPhone.

Apple has every right to patch security holes in their OS and software. Even as a jailbreaker, I expect nothing less. Should Apple have left a PDF rendering buffer exploit that allowed the easiest jailbreak in history (jailbreakme.com) open just so people could jailbreak? Obviously not. That's an easy example, but just which security holes should Apple leave open for jailbreakers?

I wish Apple would allow easy legitimate rooting. But, they don't. I made the choice that I still like the iOS world and hardware. I might feel differently in 2 years, but that's where I am now. Furthermore, Apple does give you some pretty granular control over tracking, ads, location services, etc. You're really getting offtrack on to tangential issues what that tack.

No need for the disingenuous hysterics about "morally inferior" people, etc. One can imagine that you would be complaining if Apple was NOT patching security holes... Keep it straight--attack the walled garden and Apple's choice to lockdown directly. Don't coat it in a guise of outrage over bug patching.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Microlith]

There wouldn't be this stupid cat and mouse game if Apple would give people a legitimate means of opening up the device. They refuse to, thus people get annoyed when Apple stamps their shiny metal and white boot down again and again.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[happylight]

Maybe because bugs that allow jail break are pretty damn serious as they allow for complete control of the phone. Other bugs that don't allow jail break aren't as critical.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[girlintraining]

No, you should own the device you have purchased.

sar-casm /,sar,kazem/, n: The use of irony to mock or convey contempt. Often misunderstood by netizens of the online discussion site Slashdot, who take everything literally. See also: Derp.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[girlintraining]

Everyone who buys an iPhone knows exactly what they are getting in to. Nobody is conned or tricked or forced to buy an iPhone.

And you think it's reasonable for the average person to read and understand a 325 page EULA? You can try foisting the blame back on the user, but I think it is, at best, misrepresenting the situation to suggest that people know "exactly" what they are getting into when they purchase an iPhone. The average person thinks they're getting a phone. A phone that they own, and can use without unreasonable restriction, and that they have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Now, this isn't true, not by a long-shot, but that's what the average person thinks. The average person is, afterall, a rather trusting, and stupid, sort.

I won't address the rest of your post, other than to say SARCASM! Anyone who hasn't had their sense of humor surgically removed and replaced with a floating point coprocessor can see that my entire previous post contained generous helpings of it.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[aristotle-dude]

No, you should own the device you have purchased. This does not mean however that if you jail break it due to a bug that there is any sort of moral imperative for the manufacturer to leave that bug alone. Just find a new back door to use instead.

If you paid an unsubsidized full price then I would agree with you and perhaps Apple should offer the ability use certificate attached to your iTunes account with the proviso that it only work on devices that you "own" outright. This would mean that you do not gain the ability to install software outside of the app store on a company provided device. You also could not side load apps on a subsidized device because you did not actually pay for it yet. The process could involve registration of the IMEI with your account during setup and then paying a small fee to "unlock" your phone for side loaded binaries. To keep it secure, you would still need to compile and sign the binaries yourself before loading them on your phone.

This would strike a balance between being able to use "open source" code to create your own versions software and keeping the BSD jails system in place for security.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Anonymous Coward]

Get an Android - problem solved. If you want to own the hardware, don't buy Apple. It's always been that way. Thus, I agree with the OP - why the outrage that Apple is securing and hence further locking iOS devices down, when it's been their modus operandi since at least the release of the iPhone? If this was a new thing like Secure Booting UEFI or something that was replacing BIOS devices that were always more open in the past, the outrage makes sense. But Apple devices? Come on - they've always been closed down. Nothing new here.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Moridineas]

And you think it's reasonable for the average person to read and understand a 325 page EULA [apple.com]? You can try foisting the blame back on the user, but I think it is, at best, misrepresenting the situation to suggest that people know "exactly" what they are getting into when they purchase an iPhone.

I really think the onus is on you for this point. I think you will struggle to find iPhone users who are not aware of the App Store and what it entails. Furthermore, most users just really don't care. At all. If they did, Apple wouldn't keep selling so many phones and have such a high retention rate amongst customers. Check out the retention rates if you don't believe me. They're easy to find.

The average person thinks they're getting a phone. A phone that they own, and can use without unreasonable restriction, and that they have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Now, this isn't true, not by a long-shot, but that's what the average person thinks.

No, your confusion arises from the fact that most people don't care about the restrictions. You're again being hysterically disingenuous. Even jailbreakers are a TINY minority of iOS users.

Privacy-wise, exactly what issue are you complaining about?

The average person is, afterall, a rather trusting, and stupid, sort.

You, of course, are bright, savvy, and an extra special snowflake.

I won't address the rest of your post, other than to say SARCASM! Anyone who hasn't had their sense of humor surgically removed and replaced with a floating point coprocessor can see that my entire previous post contained generous helpings of it.

Are you joking now? Your "sarcasm" was painfully obvious. It was the inanity behind the point you were trying to make that I am commenting on.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Microlith]

I think you will struggle to find iPhone users who are not aware of the App Store and what it entails. Furthermore, most users just really don't care.

I believe you are mistaken. Most people neither know nor care. Incidentally, that mode of thinking is why our political situation is such crap right now and not something to be deferred to or respected.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[the_B0fh]

Are you merely agreeing with him, or violently agreeing with him? I can't tell.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[nbahi15]

And if this was hammer and you wanted to use it as a screwdriver or paper weight, fine. However, this is a device sold not as hardware, but an experience. You were not intended to modify it to do unsanctioned things. Period. If decide to take a hammer to the device to modify it into a paper weight that is your prerogative. If your belief is that Apple should support your conversion to a paper weight by making sure the device cracks in a pleasing way and when it doesn't bitch about it, that is your issue, not Apple's.

Let's also take this ownership claim and the sorry state of the American cellphone industry. You don't buy your cellphone in all likelihood and certainly not historically. You get a phone at least partially owned by the company that gave it to you under the terms of a multi-year contract. If you want a clear ownership situation you need to change the relationship between subscriber and carrier to be one in which they exclusively provide the connectivity and if anything deliver a phone via a payment plan with a clear endpoint.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[gnasher719]

Maybe because bugs that allow jail break are pretty damn serious as they allow for complete control of the phone. Other bugs that don't allow jail break aren't as critical.

There's also different levels of bugs that allow jail break. Any bug that allows a remote jail break (jail break by visiting a website) is absolutely security critical. If someone can make a website that does a jail break, they can make a website that takes over your phone completely. I think that happened once and was fixed very quickly.

A bug that allows a jail break by connecting your phone to your computer and running software on your computer that you voluntarily installed would be much less serious. If you can jail break your phone, but I can't hack into it, that's much less of a problem.

But then once a vulnerability is there, it's very hard to say how it could or could not be exploited. So while a vulnerability with a known remote use (jail break or malware) must be fixed immediately, _any_ vulnerability _must_ be fixed.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[psiclops]

when you buy a subsidized phone on a plan you are still buying the phone. the only difference is you are buying it as part of a package.

Kind of like if how I bought two suits in a 2 for 1 sale, i should be able to take both of them to the alterations shop.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[whisper_jeff]

Then don't buy an iPhone.

I have an iPhone. And an iPad. And an iMac. Because they are the devices that meet my needs and wants. If they didn't, I'd have bought something else. If being able to install whatever OS on my phone was important to me, I'd have bought something else. It isn't. I just want a smartphone that works damn well and that's what I got.

And, more so, Apple is updating the OS to help ensure that my phone remains secure from outside intrusion - as others have pointed out, even though this means that the jailbreak community is losing a vector to jailbreak the devices, it also means malicious hackers are losing that attack vector. Because that's what it is - an attack vector for potentially malicious code.

Anyhow, it's simple - if you want a totally open device that allows you to do whatever you want with it, then buy that device. Don't by a different device and then complain it doesn't do what you want. It's like buying a fridge and complaining it does a poor job of browning your toast in the morning. Buy the device that fits your wants and needs.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[coinreturn]

There wouldn't be this stupid cat and mouse game if Apple would give people a legitimate means of opening up the device. They refuse to, thus people get annoyed when Apple stamps their shiny metal and white boot down again and again.

Yeah, I know. I'm still fighting with Whirlpool over their defiance about opening up the software on my washing machine. I want to be able to have it do three spin cycles in stead of two.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[drinkypoo]

You also could not side load apps on a subsidized device because you did not actually pay for it yet.

Once you can no longer return the device, you have paid for it. If you terminate your contract you will be billed; if you fail to pay you will be sued and a judgment granted against you. Saying that you did not pay for the phone when it is subsidized is a dirty lie.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because a small general purpose PC (a Smartphone) is exactly the same thing as a washing machine.

And you've attempted to update the software on your whirlpool and been deliberately thwarted by measures the manufacturer put in specifically to prevent you doing this.

Tool.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[nickscalise]

And you think it's reasonable for the average person to read and understand a 325 page EULA [apple.com]?

I see what you did there. EULA is really only 10 pages. The rest of the pages is the same EULA translated to other languages.

Implying that the EULA is 325 pages of pertinent text in the readers native language is a bit disingenuous, no?

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like buying a fridge and complaining it does a poor job of browning your toast in the morning.

Retarded analogy; fridges are fundamentally *incapable* of browning toast; iPhones are fundamentally *capable* of running any app.

It's actually like buying a fridge which has had a barcode reader added so it will only accept certain types and brands of food on a list approved by the fridge manufacturer, and the list of foods rejected may change at any time. And if you want to store home-made food in the fridge you have to pay an extra $100. But it's all for your own good to 'prevent food-poisoning'.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[smash]

If you want a device that runs unsigned code from anywhere: don't buy an iOS device.

There are plenty of (awesome, so i hear) alternative android devices. Some people (myself included) consider running signed code only as a FEATURE. I've been there and done that with fixing malware infested PCs for long enough and un-rooting poorly maintained linux boxes for long enough to know that code signing is a good thing for 99% of end users.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[smash]

You can run whatever you like with a dev account. They're cheap.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[Anonymous Coward]

Why should the manufacturer assist someone who wants to use the device in the multitude of other ways than what the manufacturer intended? Do you want to live life on easy street? It's like demanding cheat codes for a difficult video game just because you suck at it. You are free to do what you want with it, but Apple are under no obligation to help you, any more than a laundry machine manufacturer will assist you in making their machine cook soup.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[coinreturn]

Yes, because a small general purpose PC (a Smartphone) is exactly the same thing as a washing machine.

And you've attempted to update the software on your whirlpool and been deliberately thwarted by measures the manufacturer put in specifically to prevent you doing this.

Tool.

A Smartphone is NOT a general purpose PC any more than a washing machine is. Tool.

Re:Vulnerabilities

[coinreturn]

How dare you insult my Smart Washing Machine. Tool.

People are still buying iPhones?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm at a loss of words. Why jailbreak an iPhone when there are better phones out there that don't have nearly as many restrictions on them?

Re:People are still buying iPhones?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm at a loss of words. Why jailbreak an iPhone when there are better phones out there that don't have nearly as many restrictions on them?

To annoy shitheads like you.

Re:People are still buying iPhones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, they're still the best selling smart phone in the US. Crazy that people exist outside of geeky discussion websites. Some of those people are even *gasp* smart too!

Re:People are still buying iPhones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they don't sell the Nokia n900 or n9 anymore. It's either a feature phone, android, or iOS. I chose iOS, but I almost went for the feature phone.

Ps: rhetorical questions like yours don't even need to be asked most of the time.

Sigh, there goes another hope shot down

[Ka D'Argo]

I recently picked up an iCade Jr for my iPhone 4S (thinkgeek had marked down on super sale back in January for like ten bucks), which I jumped at. Sadly the official Ion support only has a handful of decent games that are compatible with the Jr. and for whatever reason jailbreaking a 4S or an iPad 2 appears to be super hard due to the A5 chipset. Which is odd cause keep in mind both are well over a year+ old now. I've got an older iPhone 3GS laying around I could jailbreak but it won't run newer games nearly as well as my 4S. The only reason I'd love to jailbreak is so I could use MAME which Cydia has a shit ton more support for the iCade in terms of quantity of games, including many legit games I've purchased from the App Store like X-Men Arcade, Final Fantasy Tactics, etc. I've been waiting a long ass time for an iOS 6 jailbreak that works with the A5 chip, either tethered or non-tethered but none seem to ever get made :(

Re:Sigh, there goes another hope shot down

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, iOS 6.1/6.1.1/6.1.2 is easily jailbreakable on iPhone 5/iPad 4/etc via the evasi0n tool. If you want to jailbreak, do it now, before 6.1.3 is out.

Re:Sigh, there goes another hope shot down

[Moridineas]

Allow me to introduce you to evasi0n, the subject of this (RTF)Article.

http://evasi0n.com/

I think you will be pleased!

Re:Sigh, there goes another hope shot down

[93 Escort Wagon]

My iPad Mini contains an A5, and evasi0n handled it nicely. All of the recent jailbreaks were not released until they worked on EVERY relevant iPhone and iPad.

Actually the only iOS device that, right now, cannot be jailbroken is the 3rd generation Apple TV.

Reasons why Apple makes jail breaking difficult

[Anonymous Coward]

There are valid reasons against jail breaking. For Apple AND the user.

1. Minimising app piracy. (And don't tell me that that isn't a major reason for a lot of people)

2. Jail breaking removes several security barriers and exposes the phone to more risks. Yes there have been bug fixes/patches available on Cydia before official updates by Apple.

3. Support reasons. People who jb and then encounter problems may blame Apple and thereby tarnish the brand despite being themselves the cause of their problems.

4. Stability and performance. Lots of Cydia apps are seriously crap. Be honest. Yea there are some true shining gems. But a lot of turd too.

Jail breaking had its merits in the early days of iOS. But I don't think it's worth it any longer.

I seriously wish Apple would simply

[aussersterne]

get with the program. I don't have a problem with a secured OS that can't be jailbroken.

But I do have a problem with the way in which Android offers compelling features that Apple doesn't—like applets that display information on the launcher screen, and a notification system that doesn't suck. All of which are only available to iOS through Cydia. Grrrr.

I also wish Apple would release a phablet-sized iPhone.

I'm caught between two worlds. I'm a Mac user and an iPad user and until recently an iPhone user. But I switched to Android because it did things that iOS simply doesn't do right now without jailbreaking (which I get tired of—I want OS updates *and* features, not a choice between the two), and because Apple seems dead set against a phone with a large display.

But now, with a Galaxy Note II, I'm stuck with the crashiness, laggishness, UI inconsistency, and comparatively crappy apps available for Android. It's a no-win situation.

There's no comparison between iOS and Android when it comes to UI consistency and the smoothness and transparency of the system, or the app store. iOS wins hands down, and it isn't even close.

But there's also no comparison between iOS and Android when it comes to features, flexibility, and form factor. Android wins hands down.

But I hate having to choose between these when it's clearly technically possible for humans to build a great device with great UI consistency, smoothness, and transparency, great apps, and great features, flexibility, and form factor.

As a user, it's like being caught in a battle between two self-centered idiots.

Re: I seriously wish Apple would simply

[Anonymous Coward]

You said that you want feature AND updates and therefore chose Android. That's a contradiction. Be honest: most Android phones (except Nexus devices) won't get updates and when they get updates (after many moons) the update itself is often outdated.

Re: I seriously wish Apple would simply

[BradleyUffner]

You said that you want feature AND updates and therefore chose Android. That's a contradiction. Be honest: most Android phones (except Nexus devices) won't get updates and when they get updates (after many moons) the update itself is often outdated.

http://get.cm/

Re:I seriously wish Apple would simply

[Anonymous Coward]

And I want Ferrari to release a compact electric car. But they will not. It seems you dislike that different offerings have different advantages and disadvantages. To me, that is the market at work.

Cool story bro

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fkuk? Someone cares?

"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Pausanias]

I used to jailbreak during iOS 4-5 days. Spent a lot of time installing this or that tweak, feeling like such a cool "power user." Oh my, animated wallpaper and SSV Normandy replacing the words "AT&T" on the upper left corner of my screen. This or that tweak that let me access this or that feature with one less gesture than before.

What a freaking waste of time. And at what cost? Random applications written by anonymous people on the net running as root on your iPhone, with full access to your private data if they wanted it? You are putting yourself at extremely high risk by circumventing the iPhone's security and running all this closed source software as root.

Jailbreaking is a security nightmare, and you're not worthy of the term "power user" if you allow someone called chpwn or BigBoss to run closed source shit as root on your personal communication device. By the way, that jerk BigBoss wouldn't let me run his software if I blocked ads on my hosts file. WTF dude, let us live a little?

If you really want flexibility, at least go to Android, where they publish their source.

It finally took cold turkey---bought an iPhone 5 when it came out, with no jailbreak for months---to learn that I really like my iPhone the way God intended it: nice and stable and closed---and even if not 100% secure, still better than giving some random dude called p0sixninja full access to my device. I get more stuff done now---you know, real work that I need to get done for my real career and not messing with a half-assed implementation of Expose that causes my phone to reboot half the time (yeah---the instability and the random reboots are yet another downside of jailbreaking).

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[blind biker]

to learn that I really like my iPhone the way God intended it:

You are allowed to cal God by His real name - Steve Jobs.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[epyT-R]

Just because you're jailbroken doesn't mean you're hacked. It's to be able to run applications apple won't sanction because they compete with their business model. If you get hacked after jailbreaking, you're the fool.

Get a fucking clue.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Anonymous Coward]

to learn that I really like my iPhone the way God intended it:

You are allowed to cal God by His real name - Steve Jobs.

It was said the holy letters Jhw stood for Jahwe. They do not. They stand for Jobs Have Won.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Anonymous Coward]

Except of course, that the process of jailbreaking your phone means you need to run binaries from shady people from the 'net that exploit vulnerabilities in your phone that you should have installed an update for right away (rather than unlocking your bootloader and using AOSP utilities to modify your system partition like on Android*). If you get hacked from jailbreaking you're a fool alright, but only because you tried in the first place.

* Except if your Android phone's bootloader is locked, which is stil the case for many Android phones

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[kayoshiii]

My take home from your post - you think Apple is God... And possibly you want protection from yourself.
Is that pretty much it?

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Anonymous Coward]

That was the point of the comment, dipshit.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Anonymous Coward]

At what cost? $100, the yearly tribute Apple demands of developers.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[morgauxo]

High risk? Nothing bad has happened to me! I think you are just spreading FUD!

Some of us actually need functionality that Apple choses not to allow. For example.. I jailbreak to get encarcerapp. It's an app that allows me to lock out the home button or even the touch screen. Then I can hand the pad to my 3 y/o daughter and she can play a game or watch a movie while I drive the car and she isn't getting herself out of the app and then asking me to get it going again every couple of seconds. Somebody at Apple decided their customers shouldn't have that sort of functionality so... have to jailbreak to get it.

Now, don't get me wrong. The best option is just to buy Android and let Apple and iOS rot... if I were buying a tablet myself that is what I would do. My workplace bought the tablets. They are iOS fans big time. No, I'm not abusing company resources. They told us to use them personally, let our families use them, etc... It was all about being with the times, learning about the latest tech and maybe getting ideas we can use in our own products, not necessarily about doing our work on the tablet.

This is what I learned. To allow a child to use an iOS device you need to jailbreak and install incarcerapp. Otherwise it is useless!

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Anonymous Coward]

Show me an openVPN client that works on iOS without jailbreaking the phone and i'm right there with you. I'd love to not have to jailbreak my phone in order to access my servers.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Anonymous Coward]

I jb because the physical home button is broken. JBing let me install gesture programs that replace the need for the home button.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Anonymous Coward]

RIGHT ON Pausanias!

He used "god" very loosely and had no intent of labeling Apple a "god"........... If you read anything other than that out of that statement, then your just a silly Apple hater with to much bandwidth on your hands............

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[smash]

This. You'd think we would have learned the lessons from running unsigned code from anywhere during the past 30 years of desktop computing. But apparently, some haven't. If you want to run random shit on your iphone, get yourself a code signing cert, download and compile from source whatever you like and install it on your device - without exposing yourself to whatever trojan this week's jailbreak potentially has installed in it. It's not hard.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[smash]

It doesn't mean you're not hacked. It means you have no fucking idea WHAT is running unless you've personally audited it. There is NOTHING to stop any jailbreak author from installing a trojan/timebomb in the jailbreak itself. You're relying on goodwill alone. I mean, you haven't audited the jailbreak code, have you? Has anyone? No... didn't think so.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[smash]

Look up the cost of a code signing certificate from any root CA. it's relatively comparable, and they don't include developer tool support.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[smash]

If you run l2tp/ipsec it just works.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[sootman]

St-ve J-bs

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Anonymous Coward]

I JB my device not because of this tweak or that tweak, but to get some basic functionality on my device that is otherwise denied me:

1: A simple UNIX prompt. There are times where I just want to fire up a command shell, grab a file via wget, run sed on it to replace some obsolete items, fire up an editor to make sure it looks right, then GPG sign it and finally E-mail.

2: Active blacklisting. Do Not Disturb mode != blacklisting numbers. Unfortunately, I have an ex that has stalker qualities, and I really don't want a voice mailbox full of "you complete me" drivel that I have to clean up, or 100-200 texts a day.

3: Application firewall. You would be surprised at where apps phone home to.

4: iOS 6 has gone several steps in protecting privacy, but the PMP app still is useful.

As for names/handles, whoopty-do. In the field, should there be an issue that can be validated, chpwn, planetbeing, et. al. would have the name of mud. I trust their code far more than I trust code from ad services phoning home all the time.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[dan325]

I jailbreak for one reason: tethering. I pay my phone provider for 3GB of data each month and I damn well am going to use my 3GB however I choose. The only "legitimate" route to tethering available to me (on my current provider) is to upgrade to a 5GB plan and *then* pay $15/mo extra for the privilege to tether other devices to my phone.

I am merely doing what the FCC should have been allowing me to do all along: accessing a service that I am paying for.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Karlt1]

Some of us actually need functionality that Apple choses not to allow. For example.. I jailbreak to get encarcerapp. It's an app that allows me to lock out the home button or even the touch screen. Then I can hand the pad to my 3 y/o daughter and she can play a game or watch a movie while I drive the car and she isn't getting herself out of the app and then asking me to get it going again every couple of seconds. Somebody at Apple decided their customers shouldn't have that sort of functionality so... have to jailbreak to get it.

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2012/09/new-feature-in-ios-6-how-to-use-guided-access

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Anonymous Coward]

iOS does do that. It's called Guided Access mode.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[Anonymous Coward]

so god is dead? cool. 'bout time.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[AlphaWolf_HK]

Main reason I jailbroke my ipad 2 was for XBMC.

Other than that, I don't really care. Even with jailbreaking there aren't that many "poweruser" things you can do with iOS without it feeling like a quick and dirty hack (even though just getting that far took LOTS of developer effort.) I've mostly been sticking with Android for this reason - the iOS model of "everything is an app" for example feels really dated. You can't make a single adjustment or change even a small setting without opening the settings app and then navigating menus. Getting quick information that you want isn't as simple as going to the home screen where you e.g. have a widget that displays it and then going right back, instead you have to navigate between apps. The closest thing iOS has at replicating this is the drop down passive notification system it borrowed from android, which itself is really wanting.

Every other mobile OS has addressed that particular problem in some way (including *shudder* windows phone and the mostly dead WebOS.) Android's passive notifications have improved so much over the last two releases that I don't really use widgets any more (though they have their place in some situations.)

I'm not sure why apple hasn't changed in over four years in this department, even OSX has managed to do well in this area. They finally got out of the "everybody must have a small screen phone and a large screen tablet and nothing in between, so sayeth the Jobs" paradigm, so you'd figure they'd get out of this one sooner or later, because a lot of people I know who are leaving iOS are doing so for this and other similar reasons.

Re:"Power users" don't jailbreak

[blind biker]

St-ve J-bs

I see you are a very pious man.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

$S reception flaw still not patched...

[mad flyer]

If only they spend as much energy at fixing their products functionnalities...

Like the abominable reception on the 4S...

Re:$S reception flaw still not patched...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's odd. The reception on my 4S is stunningly good compared to other phones. This is in the UK, on the O2 network and with a Griffin Survivor case.

Edit: Captcha 'superior' heh!

Re:$S reception flaw still not patched...

[mad flyer]

4s 6.1.1 on au/kddi ok
4s 5 on softbank ok
4s 6.1.2 on softbank you have to stand under the radio relay to get 2 bars

seems to be a murder on the vodaphone network too

I understand the concept

[YesIAmAScript]

But if you have a problem with a device that is a walled garden, why did you buy it?

If you buy DRMed content expecting it'll be cracked, that works, until it doesn't. Meanwhile, you bolster the financial argument for selling DRMed content by buying it. And you diminish the importance of offering unrestricted content.

If you buy a walled garden device expecting it'll be cracked, that works, until it doesn't. And again, you bolster the financial argument for selling walled garden devices.

And then after a while, you find that the DRM isn't being cracked so easy anymore. And the walled garden devices you have been buying stop being cracked so easy too, maybe at all. And meanwhile the devices you can control are gone, because no one bought them. Companies got the message they don't need to offer more open devices, and so they didn't.

If you want to be able to buy open devices in the future, buy open devices today. Don't buy closed devices and then complain when they are re-closed.

This ain't 2007.

[danaris]

What should someone do if they like the iPhone, but can't get AT&T?

Maybe pay the tiniest sliver of attention to the world so you can learn that the iPhone has come on all major US carriers (ie, AT&T and Verizon) for years now?

Dan Aris

Re:This ain't 2007.

[AK Marc]

I was using a real-life example. It did actually happen. You are arguing that because the rules changed, the past never happened? Though, from most history books I've read, that seems to be consistent with official historians.

Re:Owner of a jailbroken 4s here.....

[jittles]

If you use Walmart Family mobile or the T-mobile bring your own phone plans you can access the APN settings. The problem is that i had to actually modify some plist (I don't even remember which one) and push it to the phone as a "restore" to fix incoming MMS. I haven't had to do that but once, even after multiple OS updates but it was a pain that first time. No jailbreak required.

Investment in any platform

[tepples]

Likewise, the next iPhone or iPad is going to have to offer some equally killer feature for me to give up my investment in Android. So how is it not a wash?

Re:Investment in any platform

[Anonymous Coward]

Likewise, the next iPhone or iPad is going to have to offer some equally killer feature for me to give up my investment in Android. So how is it not a wash?

Sounds like you're a victim of lock-in.

$649 plus $99 per year

[tepples]

how much do you need to pay Apple to unlock an iPhone?

Do you mean unlock for other cellular carriers or unlock for other applications? Unlocking for other applications costs the price of a Mac on which to run recent Xcode plus $99 per year for the iOS developer license. Unlocking for other cellular carriers doesn't really apply in Apple's home country because all four major carriers (VZW, Sprint, AT&T, and T-Mobile) use slightly different radio interfaces.

It's called price discrimination

[tepples]

If it is worth it for you to produce all this excess product in the hopes of getting people to pay you again it would be worth it to just unlock the machine for free after purchase.

It's called price discrimination. Sometimes it's cheaper to run only one production line and let the people who need more functionality subsidize the cost of providing a device for people who need less. It's the same reason that a game console devkit costs more than the retail console despite having the same hardware apart from a debug certificate.

Large fixed costs in IC manufacturing

[tepples]

That means that your product is now 75% waste. and thus could have been produced at 25% of the cost.

Not necessarily. In integrated circuit manufacturing, sometimes a manufacturer faces large fixed costs that overwhelm the difference in cost between producing an IC with more cores and one with fewer. These could be a cost to tool up the assembly line for a distinct model and a cost to package each IC.

WarioWare DIY

[tepples]

Consider an app that allows users to develop simple video games, similar to WarioWare DIY for Nintendo DS, and share them with other users of the app. I don't see how it'd be allowed on Google Play because allowing users to share games that they have created would break the non-compete agreement not to offer an internal app store within an application.

Or consider an application that allows the user to play roulette. The iOS App Review Guidelines ban roulette applications, be they chat roulette or Russian roulette.

US Letter is 17:22

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And that 16:10 is actually ideal for viewing A4 documents in portrait (full screen) or landscape (side-by-side), right?

A4 aspect ratio is 1.41, which is closer to the 1.33 (4:3) of an iPad mini than to the 1.60 (16:10) of a Nexus 7. Besides, Apple's home country uses even wider letter paper: 8.5 in by 11 in, or 1.29.

PCs running Windows are sold in stores

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Or put another why - why do people choose Windows over Linux?

Because devices already running Windows are sold in stores. It's as if stores had rows and rows of iPhones and the only way to get an Android phone was mail order.

Um, as a customer, I am also

[aussersterne]

the market at work.

And whomever pulls their act together first will most assuredly get my business.

See how that works?

Except I'm running

[aussersterne]

the latest version of Android. And I wasn't running the latest version of iOS when I switched because there wasn't yet a jailbreak for iOS 6 available (though there is now). I got tired of that game.

To some extent, your'e right—what's better, seeing no updates for your device (the Android risk, though not the certainty) or seeing updates around for months and months without being able to use them (because there's no jailbreak) but having to watch obsessively for a jailbreak because once it's released, you have two weeks to update to the latest version and jailbreak before Apple patches the vulnerability and stops signing vulnerable versions?

Maybe it all comes out in the wash. But add in the fact that those features are just *there* in whatever version of Android I'm using, latest or no, and that I can get a larger screen, and I decided to go Android.

And I have looked back...about every 10 minutes. And yet the advantages of iPhone are so tempered by disadvantages that I can't be bothered to switch back. In short, my general response to both platforms right now is a decided "meh," which is a damned shame considering the coolness of the technology's capabilities (I cut my teeth on computing when networks ran over AUI ports and operating systems shipped on DC600 cartridges—this stuff could be so damned more than it is right now, it's almost sick).

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Re:Owner of a jailbroken 4s here.....

[jittles]

Sure let me see what I can find for you. I still have the VM I used to modify the file, so I might be able to dig it up by hand if i can't find the exact forum I used that recommended the change. My brother has his wife's 4S on StraightTalk and he just borrowed my t-mobile SIM, changed the APN, and then everything worked. That is also a non-jail break option that works. That does have to be fixed every time you do a software update however (I have to set my t-mobile APN every update as well).

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Non-walled-garden might become cost prohibitive

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So you are saying the person buying the device should not be given the choice of a walled-garden device?

If the majority of users choose a walled-garden device, a non-walled-garden device is likely to become cost prohibitive. This happened in video gaming a long time ago when the Super NES killed the Amiga, and it's also happened with tablets capable of running third-party applications that happen to be exclusive to iOS.

Re:Non-walled-garden might become cost prohibitive

[AK Marc]

So? You'd remove the customer choice to impose your own, then claim the moral high ground because you prefer your forced choice to the other forced choice, when people freely pick between the two don't pick your preferred choice.

Your hypocritical anti-choice stance won't get any sympathy from me.

Compare to consoles' walled garden

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Apple is safer for not offering the choice.

Would Apple be even safer if the only developers of iOS apps were established companies with "financial stability" and "relevant industry experience"? Because that's what all three console makers require. In such a case, how would someone with an idea for an app and a working prototype on a non-walled-garden device break into the industry?

Re:Compare to consoles' walled garden

[AK Marc]

You sound like a lunatic I met last year. He had the perfect product, but "the man" kept him down with the rules and regulations. If only this company didn't lock down that, or that company allowed this, then he'd be a billionaire and the world would be a better place with his product everywhere. I tried to give him suggestions, but he wouldn't even hint at what it was because I could take the idea and sell it to someone. So I informed him of what he was doing wrong and how he could do what he wanted despite the roadblocks, and he argued that the imaginary product won't work with the roadblocks in place, even when I proved mathematically that every roadblock he specifically mentioned did not apply (they were very minor fiscal hurdles, with no impact on the technology or product). So he stormed off, looking for someone else at the conference that would agree with him how bad "the system" is. He was a miserable failure looking for an excuse, not a developer looking to sell a solution.

Re:Compare to consoles' walled garden

[tepples]

I tried to give him suggestions, but he wouldn't even hint at what it was because I could take the idea and sell it to someone.

I'll go a step beyond your lunatic: I'll pitch the ideas to you and consider your suggestions.

Idea 1: A puzzle platformer involving a character resembling a roly-poly toy who tosses ropes and swings on them. I have video of idea 1 and a playable prototype that runs on Linux and Windows. Roadblocks: It wouldn't be ideal for the iPhone or most popular Android phones because it lacks a physical directional pad and buttons with which to move the character. Nor do I have any experience in the mainstream video game industry, which I'm under the impression that I'll need before I can qualify to port the game to Sony or Nintendo handheld platforms. Which platform do you recommend? Or what other workaround do you recommend?

Idea 2: A platform-fighting game to which the community can contribute character models, move sets, and maps. I have no prototype for this quite yet, but I assume the creation tools would be ideal for PCs. Roadblocks: The PC hasn't traditionally been the platform of choice for fighting games for several reasons. One is that PC monitors have traditionally been too small for two to four players holding USB gamepads to fit around. Larger PC monitors are available, but people have traditionally been reluctant to put a PC in the living room. Nor do I have any experience in the mainstream video game industry, which I'm under the impression that I'll need before I can qualify to develop the game for Sony or Nintendo console platforms. Which platform do you recommend? Or what other workaround do you recommend?

Nexus tablets came out later

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Please explain what makes the Nexus 7 and Nexus 10 tablets worse than an iPad...

They came out later. This gave people a chance to buy an iPad and invest both their time and money in applications from the App Store that'll only work on an iPad. And all the well-marketed 4"-class Android devices are phones priced for use with a 24-month voice and data plan, not 4" tablets priced for use with W-Fi like the iPod touch.

Over $1000

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$649 for a Mac plus $396 for a developer account over the four-year service life of a $329 device isn't exactly cheap.

Cancel unexpected installations

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True, Amazon Appstore on anything but a Kindle Fire requires turning on "Unknown sources" while downloading an application. But whenever an application is installed through the "Unknown sources" route, the user must first accept the permissions by clicking through a full-screen application. The user could just press Cancel to any application installer dialog box that Amazon Appstore didn't open.

Can one always "freely pick"?

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when people freely pick between the two

What set-top gaming device or handheld gaming device with buttons should people "freely pick" if they happen to prefer not a walled garden? Or to put it another way: If a market has overwhelmingly chosen walled-garden devices, then on what device are developers of applications for these walled-garden devices supposed to learn?

Re:Can one always "freely pick"?

[AK Marc]

You develop it for Android, get a generic USB controller made to work with consoles, load Android on something like the Rasberry Pi, and sell your own console, with the game, for $150.

Your question is not dissimilar to "how do I get OnStar to sell my service of in-car restaurant reviews for me?" They won't. Get over it. If nobody will carry your killer service on their platform, build your own platform. You don't get to require people change their habits to support your desires. The non-walled-garden platform is the PC. You've stated you think it won't play well on the PC/Mac, so you ignore your only option. That doesn't change the fact that in your constraints, it was your only option.

Re:Can one always "freely pick"?

[tepples]

You develop it for Android

Unless Apple sues Android out of existence in Dice's home country.

sell your own console, with the game, for $150

Radica used to sell something called "Plug and Play TV Games". That worked because hardware capable of 2D graphics output to an SDTV had become cheaper than the 3D games popular at the time. But how would a $150 game compete with $60 games for the existing consoles?

You've stated you think it won't play well on the PC/Mac

It would play perfectly on a Mac or on a PC running Windows or GNU/Linux, provided I can convince players to move the family PC within an HDMI cable's reach of the TV. So how should I overcome the tradition against that explained by multiple commenters?

Re:Can one always "freely pick"?

[AK Marc]

It would play perfectly on a Mac or on a PC running Windows or GNU/Linux, provided I can convince players to move the family PC within an HDMI cable's reach of the TV. So how should I overcome the tradition against that explained by multiple commenters?

If you build something that they want enough, they'll do it. People didn't "want" a walled garden at first, but the solutions with a walled garden were so compelling that they changed their behavior. OR, as I pointed out, build a PC that plays the game as a single use, rather than a general purpose PC. THey aren't that much anymore. A full PC, with case and such, along with USB controller could be mass-made for well under $50 per unit. Sell it at $150 with the game, and you could make a mint.

Instead of a smartphone

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A Smartphone is NOT a general purpose PC any more than a washing machine is.

So what general-purpose computer the same size as a smartphone should people be buying instead of a smartphone?

Tool.

What do Danny Carey, Adam Jones (not Pac-Man), Maynard James Keenan, and Justin Chancellor have to do with anything?

Re:Instead of a smartphone

[coinreturn]

So what general-purpose computer the same size as a smartphone should people be buying instead of a smartphone?

I don't know. What general-purpose computer the size of a coin should people be buying?

Tool.

What do Danny Carey, Adam Jones (not Pac-Man), Maynard James Keenan, and Justin Chancellor have to do with anything?

The OP AC started it with calling me a tool. I was just responding in kind.

Every iPod touch, iPad mini, and iPad

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If you paid an unsubsidized full price

This would be true of every iPod touch, iPad mini, and iPad, any two-year-old iPhone, any iPhone sold by a prepaid carrier, and in fact all iPhones in some markets. Yet these devices still have the App Store lockdown unless one pays $649 for a Mac and $99 per year extra for the developer license.

From iPT2 (2008-09) to Galaxy Player (2011-10)

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If you want to be able to buy open devices in the future, buy open devices today.

Sure, we have Android now. But a lot of people have collections of paid apps dating back to the third quarter of 2008, when the iPhone 3G (first iPhone to ship with Apple's App Store) came out. At that time, what open device was the best practice? And an Android-powered competitor to the iPod touch didn't launch until Samsung brought out the Galaxy Player in October 2011, by which time the iPod touch had held a monopoly in 3 to 4 inch Wi-Fi tablets with an app store for three years.

Unlike a coin

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What general-purpose computer the size of a coin should people be buying?

I'll assume you're referring to something the size of Java Card or Java Ring. The difference between those and a smartphone or 4" tablet is simple. Unlike a coin or anything else smaller than (say) a sixth-generation iPod nano, a smartphone or 4" tablet is big enough for meaningful UI. So how does it benefit the market to use cryptography to artificially restrict the general-purpose capability of computers just because the display is smaller than 11 inches diagonal?

Re:Unlike a coin

[coinreturn]

So how does it benefit the market to use cryptography to artificially restrict the general-purpose capability of computers just because the display is smaller than 11 inches diagonal?

Benefit the market? Are you new to capitalism?

Market failure

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Benefit the market? Are you new to capitalism?

Handheld computing, be it through handheld video game systems or through smartphones, has traditionally been a cartel. (Android has made some segments less of a cartel, but other segments still are, such as devices with physical buttons for the application's use.) Economists call a cartel an example of a market failure . Or is it your opinion that "market failure" is a contradiction?

Re:Market failure

[coinreturn]

Benefit the market? Are you new to capitalism?

Handheld computing, be it through handheld video game systems or through smartphones, has traditionally been a cartel. (Android has made some segments less of a cartel, but other segments still are, such as devices with physical buttons for the application's use.) Economists call a cartel an example of a market failure . Or is it your opinion that "market failure" is a contradiction?

No, but the cartel owners certainly do.