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North Korea Kills Phone Line, 1953 Armistice; Kim Jong Un's Funds Found In China
eldavojohn writes "Last week, North Korea promised a "preemptive nuclear strike" prior to a UN vote on new sanctions. Despite the threat, the sanctions were unanimously approved. North Korea has responded by killing a Red Cross hotline with Seoul and claims that it has canceled the 1953 Armistice although the UN notes this cannot be done unilaterally (North Korea attempted the same thing in 2003 and 2009). While everyone thought that Kim Jong Un would ride out the sanctions on slush funds, the United States claims to have found his funds in Shanghai and other parts of China totaling hundreds of millions of dollars. Beijing has reportedly refused to confiscate these funds despite voting for the very UN resolutions sanctioning North Korea that read: 'More specifically, States are directed to prevent the provision of financial services or the transfer of any financial or other assets or resources, including 'bulk cash,' which might be used to evade the sanctions.'"
North Korea again? I've seen this movie before. It sucked the first time.
That way they can point to a country and say to its people: "See, you CAN do worse. Now get back to work."
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/northkorea/2009/05/28/46/0401000000AEN20090528004200315F.HTML
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"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
I don't really think there is much more to discuss about North Korea anymore. There should be a pager that monitors North Korean activity and buzzes anytime they do a thing.
The simple fact that China has signed the agreement and Mr. Un knows his funds are in jeopardy is pressure enough. China is in a place now that if he requests a large withdrawal in gold bars, it is legitimate for China to ask "Why?"
I think NK has ratcheted up the fear factor as far as they dare, and will now enjoy 5 years of appeasement oriented bargaining status. Mission accomplished.
Can you please stop the bullshit torrent? They DO NOT have nuclear capabilities. Unless they manually bring the nuke on the battlefield. And i'm betting my house on a fizzle as best case scenario (for them). Also i don't think the NK generals want the status quo to change. It's just some beefed up sabre-rattling.
I realise this question often comes up, but I'm really struggling to find a reason why this story belongs on /., beyond the fact that nerds are also interested in some of the same stories as everyone else.
Without a tech slant, this just seems like shameless click bait.
This is what happens when you raise young men with unrealistic expectations. It's like he thinks he's David, S. Korea is Goliath, and we all know what's in his sling... Can you imagine what would happen if he actually launched a nuclear missile at Seoul?
There would be a backlog on Galaxy phones that would take forever to fix!
China's corrupt legal system doesn't enforce its OWN laws, somebody thought they'd enforce the UN's?
Was stationed in S. Korea many years ago. Every year, the U.S. has conducted a large-scale joint military maneuver with the ROK. Every year, N. Korea goes on a rant about the exercise. Usually their rant is just the usual propaganda about an impending invasion, and their great General Kim Il Sung foiled the Imperialists once again until next year. But now that they have a new Fuhrer, maybe he feels he needs to kick it up a notch to be noticed. N. Korea is a dangerous country, but 99% of their rhetoric is for internal propaganda purposes. Maybe the recent rebellions in the Middle East + new leader + China no longer being their unconditional ally are taking a psychological toll.
Also because the regime would probably decide to go out in a blaze of glory (or rather bombs and chemical weapons.) Even if they didn't cause major damage in their death throes, North Korea collapsing would mean a flood of North Korean refugees coming into the country, even closer to starving than they are now and not really useful for anything other than worshiping their leader. And NK is a bargaining chip for China anyway.
I'm pretty that a cease-fire CAN be broken unilaterally. All you have to do is start attacking the other side again.
I realise this question often comes up, but I'm really struggling to find a reason why this story belongs on /., beyond the fact that nerds are also interested in some of the same stories as everyone else.
Without a tech slant, this just seems like shameless click bait.
A lot of our consumer products and computing devices come from that region of the world? Maybe not the cutting edge stuff but they have the volume. Also, it's labeled Politics & War ... just block all politics.slashdot.org posts in your user preferences.
If they wont at least freeze the funds, then they are supporting North Korea and all they stand for. China would benefit from a war between Korea and the USA. they can sell to both sides.
If you dont agree, then what is your reason as to why they wont freeze the funds?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
"We called at 9 a.m. and there was no response," a government official from South Korea said. The line is tested each day."
Maybe they were all doing a duck-and-cover drill at the time and couldn't answer the phone?
The long and the short of it is that China wants a buffer. That's it. They're willing to put up with the nuisance of North Korea (who are plenty annoying to them, also) to keep US troops away from their border.
Also, it's labeled Politics & War ... just block all politics.slashdot.org posts in your user preferences.
If I did that then I would miss out on those stories where politics and technology come together.
North Korea is the ultimate expression of what "little dog syndrome" is all about. A tiny little spit of land with a tiny population, nothing to speak of to contribute to the rest of the world except some extraordinary xenophobia and isolationism. Bark bark bark! Grrrrrrrrr!!! That's North Korea. They either aren't cognizant that the U.S. or any number of other countries could smash them flat in no time at all, or they're so batshit insane and suicidal that they don't care. Meanwhile something like, what? 99.9% of their population lives in the worst poverty imaginable and is starving, while the tiny elite minority lives it up? I really don't know what to think; I have no words. We sure there isn't any way we can persuade China to just absorb North Korea, kill the 0.01% that's causing all the problems, and just be done with it? Why do we even need a North Korea, considering how much noise and trouble they keep causing?
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
So Saddam Hussain didn't have any nukes, and didn't make any suck pre emptive threats to the US and look what happened to him... North Korea said flat out they would pre empt a nuke strike on the US (or allies) and they are still in power... I guess the UN has a soft spot for those silly crazy buggers.
The big issue with NK isn't whether they have nukes or not; it's the giant army in China that has before and would again work as their backstop. Iraq had no real friends in the region; they pissed them all off with their wars in the past (and none of the kind-of friends were all that powerful anyway). NK still has China, which makes us handle them with care.
claims that it has canceled the 1953 Armistice although the UN notes this cannot be done unilaterally
Only in the imagination of diplomats is unilateral cancellation of an armistice impossible. The rest of us know what the North Koreans know; that they can start shooting anytime they want.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
"We called at 9 a.m. and there was no response," a government official from South Korea said. The line is tested each day.
With their assets now frozen, they weren't able to pay the phone bill.
Oh, of course I will vote for the resolution denying Kim Jong Un access to his money, but that doesn't necessarily entail I will deny Kim Jong Un access to his money. Let's table that for now, while I vote in favor of a resolution to enact the resolution I voted for previously denying Kim Jong Un access to his money. Though, if that vote passes, and I hopte that it does, I will still refrain from denying Kim Jung Un access to his money; I remain agnostic about the entailment of that consequence by the resolution's resolution, as well as the subsequent resolution's resolution's resolution. Perhaps we should pass a resolution on the subject?
When you rely on a corrupt government for the tiny amount of food that you get, you've believe just about anything they tell you to. And that's the point.
The regime is composed of military and party aristocrats who only care about money and power. If the end was nigh in all likelihood they'd use the _threat_ of a "blaze of glory" to secure themselves a nice retirement in China.
The real issue is that if the government were to collapse there'd be nobody at the border to stop the flood of refugees. China would be stuck having to mow people down at the border rather than the NK military. And China would also lose face as the South Koreans and Americans moved in to restore order.
I don't understand why we don't offer China a simple bargain--withdraw support from the regime and assist in a transition, and we'll promise to leave the peninsula forever. On balance I think it would be be a good trade. It'd piss off the S. Koreans, Japanese, and make us look like wimps to ASEAN countries, but at least we'd get that thorn out of our side, and then dealing with Iran or Pakistan would instantly become much easier because they'd look a whole lot worse w/ the worst guy on the block gone.
And they know we can keep our promises. We've abstained from direct intervention in Cuba for over half a century on the word of a long dead president.
Yeah, it goes a little more like " So, your fat rolley butt is threatening us with a pre-emptive nuke? You want to be , just another part of China? Better settle down and take what you're given and like it , porky."
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Yes, but we don't care about that. We just want you to quit whining about the stories that are posted. It is your hangup with the content. Ignore it or go elsewhere please. The rest of the world should not have to change to appease your sensibilities. North Korea is "Stuff that matters" at least if you are an inhabitant of this world. No geek cred needed.
The Korea you are trying to call, North, is unavailble right now. Please try your call again later.
The long and the short of it is that China wants a buffer. That's it. They're willing to put up with the nuisance of North Korea (who are plenty annoying to them, also) to keep US troops away from their border.
They haven't been worried about US troops for decades, only a few senile Party officials still concern themselves with the US in terms of the military. What china wants is to annex the North, but they know the South and most of the rest of the Globe won't put up with that, so they're content in propping up a crappy little regime until the political climate favors such an expansion.
I see this type of stuff from NK as a face-saving measure, with more focus aimed at their own people.
The fact that the rest of the world pays attention is just icing on the cake.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Hundreds of millions of dollars? Really? Wake me up when his funds reach the trillion mark. I thought we were discussing serious business here... And can someone please mention again why should we even care on how the North-Koreans are fairing? Oh, right they are communists... Yawn... Look, this is not the 60ies or the 70ies, the cold war is over, the Russians have gotten busy with capitalism, the Chinese wonder why *we* bother voting and the wackos north of the 38th parallel are pretty much irrelevant, WMDs or not. That, by the way, worked with Iraq, but just barely. You won't be fooling anyone now into settling such silly old business, what is done in the Korean war is done, man up and live with it. Unless, of course your space satellite, sniffing dogs or whatever showed there is oil over there, so they are pretty much fucked anyway, so just cut the crap and invade them already.
What privacy invading issues might you be referring to?
Each CueCat has a unique identifier that is appended to the scanned encrypted data. The original software was designed to track you based on everything you scanned.
Unfortunately for Digital Innovations, their ub3r 1337 h4x0r engineers decided that "base64 encoding + constant XOR == encryption". Fail. So, alternate software was quickly created to decode CueCat output, and the CueCats were thus rendered simple, free barcode scanners.
In retrospect, this whole debacle may have been the first lolcat. Heh.
He violated the cease fire agreement. I'd say that counts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1441
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
We do this all the time as a country. America laughs at the lower end countries that rattle their sabers at us or others. We all make jokes about them, laugh, make SNL skits about them and so on. Then one day they come out of nowhere with "SURPRISE MOTH%%%^#S!!!" and then we stand back.
Same thing happened with people in the middle east. For decades we made fun of them and then finally like the little fat kid at school that gets laughed at too much he snaps and proceeds to wail on the kids who have been making fun of him and hurts them badly. Then of course the kids who did the laughing for years somehow manage to blame the fat kid for fighting back. It happened with the middle east and if we keep making fun of korea they will do the same eventually.
The only reason that North Korea currently exists is to maintain a few 1000 top officials in relative wealth - but even that wealth is pretty poor compared to the West. If South Korea were to offer the top 10,000 officials in the north $1-100 million each (depending on position) + immunity from prosecution then they could probably reunify Korea within a year, and save themselves a lot of money in the long term.
You might like to check your facts. Castro did not kill Che Guevara, and I'd hardly class him as a coward.
I mean, they initiated at least one not that long ago on the mere *allegation* that they had nuclear weapons.
The lack of concrete action against NK might be a lesson for Iran.
If you don't want to be fucked with, actually having nukes is the best bet.
Yeah but the survivors' children would live vastly better lives and be free.
It's like taking a bandage off.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Sort of, minus the bay of pigs. But mostly yeah.
Some Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door on Sunday morning to hand me a flyer inviting me to Easter services at their church. After they left I looked at the flyer. On it, Jesus was portrayed with short hair and a neatly trimmed beard. The one image of him on being crucified showed 6-pack abs.
I have never seen a picture of Jesus in which he didn't have long hair, and never noticed 6-pack abs before, and it got me thinking. Why, of all the Christian denominations, would the Jehovah's Witnesses try to make Jesus so physically appealing? Wouldn't such a deliberately sexualized depiction inspire lascivious thoughts among the believers? Wouldn't some believers focus on their romantic fantasies to the detriment of his message ?
And now I get to the reason this particular story makes me think of this- why have I never seen a depiction of Jesus that was unattractive, maybe like Kim Jong Un? Isn't Jesus' message supposed to transcend his physical appearance? Have we become so shallow that it's not enough that all our popular singers be pretty/handsome, but now even our religious figures have to be attractive?
No one knows what Jesus actually looked like (if you believe he ever actually lived), and in general, there are far more unattractive people in the world than attractive ones, so with nothing else to go on, it's probable that he was unattractive. Yet all the pictures of him make him look attractive. Just an observation...
Given the racism that is rampant within china (eg: country folk are basically not allowed to go to university, or move to the city...), its doubtful that the survivor's children would live better. Maybe their great grand-children... Maybe.
That is deeply flawed reasoning.
He's demanding an all expense paid trip to Disneyland and a pony or he'll blow up Congress. American citizens have responded daring him to carry through with his threats.
NK is a great place to do research that violates human rights. Its like outsourcing all the dirty little experiments and political tom foolery to the "worst place in the universe"
NK has to do shit like this to look dumb and like an innocent bully totally unconnected from the powers that support it. It has to do this so its own citizens don't suspect and totally believe their being protected by their benevolent dictator and so people don't realize NK wouldn't exist without foreigners keeping it sovereign for their own interests.
Maybe, but this is why I would think China would be concerned if NK is able to throw a nuke even as far as Tokyo.
this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice
You are right and it should also be pointed out that one reason that China supports them is that they do not want hundreds of thousands of NK refugees coming over their border.
Non bene pro toto libertas venditur auro
Because of a newsgroup with one post, almost a year ago?
You think this is a joke??? !!! 11one
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
Isn't an armistice a cease-fire agreement (like a 'putting war on hold' agreement, rather than officially signifying the end of aggressions)? The article states that an armistice cannot be unilaterally dissolved, yet doesn't direct action by NK against any US troops signify the end of the cease-fire?
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Just that citizens of a corrupt communist regime believe everything their government tells them? Let me assure you that that is not the case.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
They're targeting young impressionable kids who are in search of an ideal. They are selling that ideal.
Jesus 6 pack, with a beard (masculine power, fatherly nobility). Works for young men and women who have not formulated a strictly athiest world view yet.
I think the church knows its pretty hard to get a 60's something hippy on board, or that most already love jesus anyway. Maybe they'll get lucky with a few rednecks who haven't done a tour in Afghanistan yet.
- Iraq has oil
- Bush & co had a lingering revenge motive from the Kuwait days
- US did not have allies within real striking range of Iraq
- US had a trigger with the war on terror and WMD
- Iraq has low-tech weaponns
- N Korea has no oil
- There is no personal grudges to be settled
- Seoul is only 20 miles from N Korea
- N Korea is all talk and have not triggered a real reason for invasion & no-one believes WMD arguments anymore
- N Korea has rocketry and air or ground deploy able nukes
The risk-reward trade off is quite different ... more akin to the cold war with USSR where you need to slowly erode capability not just attack.
Huh? The image shows the strike circle of a missile capable of hitting Tokyo from the Tonghae rocket base.
this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice
It's like taking a bandage off.
Nah, it's more like taking a diaper off.
Maybe, but this is why I would think China would be concerned if NK is able to throw a nuke even as far as Tokyo.
A single rocket delivering a nuke would incur such global wrath that only the thoughts of a deluded or mad man or group of men would consider it.
However a single or pair of nukes delivered in other ways at closer ranges scares the pants off me (YouTube video has been taken down).
China has some electric/diesel submarines that are so quiet and stealthy that those that worry are very worried. Launching a cruse missile and vanishing is well within their capabilities. So far NC has not built one that I know of but the machine manufacturing technology to build such a boat is not a big reach in this modern world. Modern drug lords are building stealthy delivery submarines that more larger loads and manage to escape detection quite often.
Container ships are another risk. A 40 foot container or pig has the size and weight capacity to cause havoc both nuclear and conventional. A 40 foot container could carry 60K of HE.. not a nuke but still enough to shut down a port. Just a matter of mislabeling and fusing. N.B. "Fat Man" weighed 10,000 pounds and annihilated nearly half of the city.
In another thread on another forum someone discussed the US disarming its nuclear arsenal. While I like the idea of backing away from MAD, the little I know about this, the less sane it would be to let fools or anyone else crack open the cases of the existing devices. In most cases making them live falls in the class of "some assembly" required so leave the segregated bits segregated and locked up for now. BTW: Even HE artillery falls in the class of some assembly required FWIW.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
Even when they say "bad doggie!", and wave their finger at, it is all just a show to look like they are taking action when really they enjoy the sight of it biting the heels of others.
Nope. http://bintouch.com/ shows what you're describing, www.bintouch.com redirects to http://www.bintouch.org/mailman/listinfo/cp-transition/
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
Even Michelangelo had a dead Jesus with a ripped body.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Michelangelo's_Pieta_5450_cropncleaned_edit.jpg
Michelangelo went for guys, too.
back when i was 12 or so, I would get put on "restriction" meaning I couldn't do anything other then church activities. The problem was, I didn't do anything anyways. So after about 3 years, they realized that they weren't punishing me, so they had to change it. (started making me clean up shit, ended up everytime something was dirty, I had a bad attitude, so i had to clean it as a punishment.)
Guess what peeps? Sanctions don't work. Time to change up strats.
Be seeing you...
The border between NK and China is a mountain range. An invasion force would be easily halted there. If the US were serious about invading China it would be much easier to just take the casualties and amphibiously land on Hainan/Hongkong/Macau. And because the Chinese economy is centered around its southeastern coast, the economic disruption from even a failed attempt would be gargantuan.
Fuck it, nuke em.
just pull the plaster off and get it done already.
Wow, they remember the ::Cue::Cat, but forgot about Junis. Truly the golden age of trolling is dead and forgotten.
Saddam, like him or not, was an incredibly smart guy if you think about it. He certainly talked a big talk, but *he* knew he didn't have anything to back it up. But to his benefit, no one else was really sure what he did/didn't have. Worked in his favor. He played a great game of poker and for a long time no one called his bluff. U.S. attacks him and lo-and-behold we find out he was all hot air all along.
Now Kim Jong Un is a different story. He talks big, that's for sure. And we're not *really* sure just what his military might is. We're also not fully sure who might have his back if things got nasty. But whatever military toys Un has, he and his awfully heavily decorated generals seem to be willing to use. He's counting on China to back him all the way. China has kept a lid on him thus far. But he really seems unpredictable. He could "go rouge" on China and do something really stupid. But I don't think Un's any dummy either, he couldn't sustain a military endeavor for any length of time on his own and he knows it. He's been out in the real world.
Really.. this is news?
I'm So Ronery
So ronery
So ronery and sadry arone
There's no one
Just me onry
Sitting on my rittle throne
I work rearry hard and make up great prans
But nobody ristens, no one understands
Seems like no one takes me serirousry
And so I'm ronery
A rittle ronery
Poor rittle me
There's nobody
I can rerate to
Feel rike a bird in a cage
It's kinda sihry
But not rearry
Because it's fihring my body with rage
I'm the smartest most crever most physicarry fit
But nobody else seems to rearize it
When I change the world maybe they'll notice me
But until then I'rr just be ronery
Rittle ronery, poor rittle me
I'm so ronery
The 'Armistice' is a relic of the 'Cold War.' Under the terms, the USA and the territory of south Korea, at that time not recognized as a 'Country' were bound by law to engage with the 'North' territory to develop a lasting treaty and resolve all issues so that the territories would at a future date recombine.
That has not happened.
Why ?
What 'designs' does the USA have for establishing a 'slave' country of slaves within North Korea to do the bidding of the USA Masters (i.e. the Executive Office of the President of the United States of America) ?
What options are there? I can only see two best case scenarios:
Realistically at this point, do you think anyone but South Korea would actually care? China showing expansionist tendencies would be slightly unnerving, and South Korea would be unhappy about the impact on a unified Korea, but do you really think that aside from some strongly worded public speeches anyone would give a rats? China are a lot less insane and a lot less dangerous than NK and can solve everyone's problems.
How can a small country like NK, Pakistan or Iran even consider using nukes? What about the consequences? The world community will have to respond with nukes. And for a small country all it takes are 1 or 2 nukes in the major cities to completely destroy the country. In other words, it would be a suicidal act.
There are no reasons for China to fear US military presence across the Yalu/Tumen River. Heck, they even want them to come over, not to invade, but to spend some Benjamins on the hookers.
Look up " US Navy port visits China" and there are dozens since the turn of the century, most notably Hong Kong and Macau.
New Economic Perspectives
Not quite. The bigger issue, aside from China is that while Iraq was supposedly building WMDs, North Korea actually has them.
and then have the next 10 years of "Nation Building" infrastructure improvements that we've become accustomed to giving the vanquished foes.
What an insane notion. Not that I don't think the leadership in NK are insane. But seriously, if they gave a shit about their people, then they'd, you know, be a little benevolent and all. These guys are in control, and having the US invade would not allow them to continue to keep their privileged position.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Huh? That is exactly what I said along with 4 other factors that all point in the same direction.
N Korea has rocketry and air or ground deploy able nukes
Not exactly sure what you think you are disagreeing with ... you can not attack a nuclear armed opposition like USSR (or N Korea) but instead have to erode their capability - economically in both cases of USSR and N Korea.
I suspect Kim Jong Un is really a figurehead
93C46
much like Germany was re-unified. IR2110
There's already an entire province of China about 1/4 populated by North Korean refugees and their descendants.
The batshit insane wing of the Republicans would care and use it as an excuse to try to bring back the "good old days" of the Cold War before that whining weakling Nixon started talking to the Chinese. That's how insane they are and how poor a grasp of reality they have, and they have a chance at choosing the next President from among their ranks of people that make Palin look like a realist.
It's 2013, so there's no need to wait for Daddy Bush to finish his golfing holiday before military action will happen.
Even after playing that game the US still had to invade Panama.
No one knows what Jesus actually looked like (if you believe he ever actually lived), and in general, there are far more unattractive people in the world than attractive ones, so with nothing else to go on, it's probable that he was unattractive.
But you do have something else to go on. He (assuming he existed) was a (posthumously) wildly successful charismatic leader with no worldly perks to offer his followers. People like that aren't necessarily romance novel cover models, but they tend to be a little prettier than Quasimodo or Baron Harkonnen.
It all makes sense so long as you remember that China will trade with anyone. If they liked NK they probably wouldn't charge them over twice market price for oil.
There's been a lot of saber rattling between Japan and China in the last few months over minor islands of little value.
The Senkaku Islands dispute is less about dick waving and ultimately more about oil reserves. International maritime law allows for exclusive economic zones for some distance off a country's territorial shores. Thus, these otherwise-worthless islands actually have some value beyond distracting both countries' populations from domestic issues. Also, like every good territorial dispute requires, both sides have their own preferred "true name" for the disputed territory.
This dispute is somewhat analogous to the US' Aroostook War over Maine's borders or the Oregon Boundary Dispute ("54 40' or Fight!")—both of which were solved without war despite the bellicose rhetoric.
I put some numbers against this the other day in the last discussion about North Korea, basically even if the whole entire population of North Korea crossed the border it would still only be about the same population increase China sees naturally despite having a one child policy in 2 years anyway, or a less than 2% increase in population.
This is still non-negligible and would be a big problem of course, but also as I pointed out the whole population wouldn't cross the border. When you factor in disease and famine, people who stay, people who die, people who flee elsewhere (to Japan, South Korea etc.) the actual figure is going to be fairly negligible. As there would be a hefty amount of international aid and support to boot it's likely that the border region of China may even actually see a net benefit - cheap labour and international funding to feed it, build accommodation, provide healthcare and so on.
Just to put this into context, Jordan saw 750,000 Iraqi refugees arrive in the three years between 2003 and 2006 which to them, was a 15% increase in population - drastically higher than anything China could suffer from war in the absolute worst case that would never come close to happening in practice of every single individual in North Korea going there.
I don't think the refugee argument is a legitimate one, I don't think that's China's concern at all.
More likely I think the real reason is simply that China doesn't want reunification - the last thing it wants is a successful Western ally backed by heavy US military presence right on it's doorstep, it prefers to maintain a buffer zone, that buffer zone being North Korea.
If this were to happen the bigger threat to China would likely be the emigration of it's brightest and best across the border into a new unified Korea, rather than emigration of North Koreans post-war.
I was bitter about the whole thing for a long time, until I learned the failure part...which made a tiny part of me very happy indeed.
Ah, schadenfreude—it has always seemed historically inevitable to me that the word with this definition would have German etymology. "There's a word for this? And it's German? Quelle surprise."
We've abstained from direct intervention in Cuba for over half a century on the word of a long dead president.
Well, yes, if you class the impostion of crippling economic sanctions as only an indirect intervention.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
The long and the short of it is that China wants a buffer. That's it. They're willing to put up with the nuisance of North Korea (who are plenty annoying to them, also) to keep US troops away from their border.
The probability of the US attempting a land invasion of China is about the same as that of North Korea obliterating the US in an exchange of nuclear weapons, i.e. effectively zero.
Surely not even the most insane of Chinese or American military leaders would think it was a possibility? You might as well draw up a plan to invade Russia in the middle of winter, based on glorious historical precedents.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Given the racism that is rampant within china (eg: country folk are basically not allowed to go to university, or move to the city...), its doubtful that the survivor's children would live better. Maybe their great grand-children... Maybe.
You don't actually know what racism means, do you.
The world at large has been aiming for a reunified Korea, even if it is a long way off but I don't think very many want Korea unified under North Korea due to the inevitable worsening of the standard of living for South Koreans. So the question is one of whether people would accept China annexing N.Korea in order to get rid of the silliness of N.Korea. I don't think it would happen.
Of course, I still lay the entire problem with Korea at the feet of MacArthur.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
The historical precedents of invading Russia in the winter contain very valuable information regarding how to not invade Russia during the winter.
That is, make sure you have a supply line. Napoleon was forced to retreat from Moscow towards Smolensk which had previously been torched by Russian troops as they retreated from Smolensk to Moscow. After his army got checked trying to advance on St. Petersburg he had hoped that taking Moscow would force the Russians to capitulate. The Germans had planned for their Blitzkrieg to succeed quickly against Russian and never setup the supply lines to support their armies. There were also some strategic blunders on the Germans which permitted the Russians to envelope and destroy an entire army group. Not really something you want to do if you're trying to... you know.... win.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
The problem there is, the U.S. is arguably still making up for having not kept their promise to support Korea (United States–Korea Treaty of 1882) back when the Japanese invaded, since having the Philippines was considered more strategic (Taft–Katsura Agreement).
At least half the peninsula is free.
Slightly? More like completely off-topic. All the picture I've seen of Kim Jong Un were unattractive.
Also, people in that time walked everywhere and didn't eat ridiculously fatty foods every day. I'd say it'd be more historically inaccurate if you couldn't see his ab muscles.
So far NC has not built one that I know of ...
I assure you that North Carolina has no intention of building submarines or cruise missiles.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Except it's the wrong lesson. The only reason NK hasn't had the snot kicked out of them is because they have 10,000 artillery pieced lined up to burn Seoul to the ground. North Korea's deterrence has always been their threat of a highly destructive conventional assault. Had it not been for that, I'm pretty sure the United States would have rained bombs down on Pyongyang back in the 1990s.
You are being fooled. It's not "the republicans" but instead the military industrial complex. They have successfully diverted your attention away from them and onto "the republicans". Great job!
That's pretty harsh any way you look at it. I'm all for freedom, but I don't think you can volunteer other people for death like that.
"Racism" is the closest in concept to what GP is describing though. The US being much younger than several asian cultures and much more racially diverse, if we hate some group of people based on ancient history, it's races. In Japan, China, or other countries where pretty much everyone is of the same race, their hate isn't along racial lines, it's by lineage.
When I heard that certain family lineages were discriminated against still to this day, because emperor Tokugawa (or some leader long before the US was around) declared them inferior, it didn't make any sense, until I realized it was essentially the same as racism... just without the racial distinction.
Anyway, racist Chinese and North Koreans would probably both maintain that they are different races, and would both state as facts that they were superior genetically to the other "race."
But... I DID point that out! It has done been already pointed out!
If there is reunification with South Korea, expect the cost to be borne by South Korea, to a similar extent that in the reunification of Germany, the cost was borne by West Germany.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
there's really no way to go forward and get what we want without either a lot of North or South Korean blood on our hands. We could stop sending food aid to increase pressure, but the innocent people in NK will starve.
When their leadership chooses to divert resources out of food production and into arms production, how is the resulting starvation our fault? That particular blood is not on our hands.
Any country capable of building nukes and sending stuff into orbit is also capable of meeting the basic caloric needs of its people -- if it chooses to.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
This is absolutely bang on - China is opposed to the re-unification of Korea. As it is, even without North Korea, South Korea has prospered, and if North Korea goes the way of East Germany or South Yemen, then China, which is their main backer, would suffer a major loss of face.
One thing I'm not getting is - why didn't China veto the resolutions that the UN adapted? In the 1950s, it was a Soviet walkout of the Security Council preceding the vote on Korea that saw North Korea expelled, and now, Beijing wasn't there to bat for Pyongyang? That defies credulity. Right now, China is violating this resolution by hoarding Kim's money, but had they vetoed it, they'd not be violating squat!
As I pointed out in a past thread on North Korea, there is only one trump card the US has, and I doubt that the US even knows to use it. It would be the re-militarization of Japan. Nobody fears a nuclear Korea more than Japan, since anti-Japanese hatred is common to both the Koreas, and could be used by the Kim family to attract support from across the border. The US could therefore preempt any of that by revoking the WWII requirements against Japan being a military power, and even offer Japan the option of having nukes. Nobody would dread that more than Beijing, who has its memories of WWII and who would then stand to face a major challenge to their status as the #1 power in Asia. That can be the only reason that Beijing hasn't fully taken the side of North Korea in this whole debate.
However, I don't think that China's people would migrate en masse to Korea. That country is even more different from China than Taiwan and the US. As it is, those Chinese who want to leave China today can, and do; it's only people who are political dissenters who are blocked. Even with all that, China has managed to become both the military and economic powerhouse of Asia, and would prefer to leave things that way, and not lose it over something as stupid as North Korea.
From your link: "Back in the 1990s, the United States offered to help North Korea with its energy needs if it gave up its nuclear weapons program. But the deal fell apart after the Bush administration accused the North Koreans of reneging on their promises."
More than an accusation is in play here: the North did completely renege on its promises. Too bad the writer chose to politicize things.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Was a reference to point 3 when you were talking about WMD's as a justification for war. They're only a justification for war when they don't exist.
Just because I cannot type is no reason to name them. Just flame me for being a terrible cypest.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
Abailable i was and Jew of F told you to Teach Tit Ofenceive here and if you do you will Win a Prize. How long ago was Veto to Veto a Line of S Ash and Dust of this kind? Was it Lucifer you were Tracking or the Violint one you said He was? I was John of S House and you Shoed yourself to S Demond on Highland Hedoe Do, the Vest of Azel and you Shoe other Foot for Fit of Life Time of Evil in Nation i call Home to me in America here in Vietnam America and Quit trying to say i leed you to end when i said NO! You go Korea, for US G G Areen here in Ost Ol' i O' and don't shoot me again. I Win Chin said, your lost in this Theif Way and i know it and you should Shoot those trying to Lee you to Me and i was Joan Jet here in Woos Salem O' Ji O' to. If you see Uncle Eady here, please do Cly, i am Clyd Balone here of the Avis and Wilber Team you've heard of - that's not the other one your hearing from today. Now Sheet Rebel and Sand Door for Ol' Tine Sake - not that Asshole you said here. Go Ahead...