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Adobe To Australians: Fly To US For Cheaper Software
angry tapir writes "It's been a long-running joke that it's cheaper for Australians to get a plane ticket to the U.S. if they want to buy Adobe's Creative Suite instead of paying local prices. But appearing before a parliamentary inquiry into the disparity between IT prices in Australia and elsewhere, Adobe's local chief appeared to suggest just that."
Other companies gave their responses to the inquiry as well. Microsoft said they'll simply charge what the market will bear. Apple tossed out a host of reasons for the price difference; its retail partners, digital content owners, exchange rates, taxes, import duties, and an apparent inability to alter the price set by its U.S. parent company.
I don't know if this applies to software, but I know that music and movies have been seriously hindered by archaic regional licensing agreements going back to the days when physical media was the only means of distribution. It's why a certain DVD may be available in a certain region at price x, while completely unavailable or at a different price in region y (with a different distributor or even with a completely different edition of the movie/song). This old system has become a HUGE annoyance in the modern streaming era, particularly if you're trying to watch Netflix outside the U.S. (since those movie licensing agreements are still such a goddamned mess, even in an era when streaming crosses every old national and regional border). It's also why I have to import my blu-ray of "More American Graffiti" from the UK instead of being able to buy it here in the U.S.
This may also explain why these weird prices apply specifically to the standard physical boxed sets of Adobe products, and not the newer cloud versions or student editions (as per the article). It may also explain why Adobe is so reticent to talk about it. If they have some long-standing regional licensing/distribution agreement in Australia, they may be reluctant to bad-mouth their local licensees/distributors (who have jacked up the retail prices for whatever reasons).
Your political party doesn't care about your rights and only represents corporate interests.
Herein
http://www.infoworld.com/t/cringely/here-lies-web-journalism-dead-the-hand-of-the-almighty-advertiser-214915
likes this fool shill
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2416859,00.asp
what about the inport taxes? and the VAT tax?
that's what you get for all these "consumer friendly" laws and taxes you pass on evil corporations
If this was so easy, couldn't you call a 'friend' in the U.S. and make them mail you a copy?
There has got to be more to this than that.
It's just so darn expensive to rewrite all the software upside down for Australia and the rest of the southern hemisphere. That's the entirety of the additional cost!
What do you expect? This happens because of:
Taxes, regulation, customs/tariffs, and a currency inflated by commodity boom currency inflows (the currency risk premium is on the order of that of bitcoins by now).
I know there are plenty of people who really do need Adobe software for various reasons. However, I know there are also lots of people who could get by with GIMP instead of Photoshop and Inkscsape instead of Illustrator (I am one of those later people). I think there is a missed opportunity here for the open source community to gain some traction down under...
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Where I live prices are sky high. I grumble at it a bit and I do buy from abroad. However, it is to me a sign that the economy I live in can bear the price. As a matter of fact, beginning of may I will take a trip to England to buy tyres for my car. No kidding!
You'd almost say that it is normal, sound business practice to get the most out of your products. For my car tyres it actually is sound and clean business practice as anyone could import those tyres and offer them to me at a lower price. But nobody really bothers because the market for this type of tyre is small.
If MS, Adobe and Apple would "allow" parallel imports (which I think they won't be to keen on) then nothing would be wrong here. I suspect however that should you open a shop in the US to resell the software products to Australia, that you'd have a pretty hard time. Volume rebates and supply would most likely turn out to be disappointing.
The only option is to push globalisation further and to put penalties on uncompetitive behaviour. That would also have the side effect that, say, 3rd world countries would have easier entrance to our food market.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
"Microsoft said they'll simply charge what the market will bear."
I see no socialism here, but capitalism at work.
Adobe is just being greedy.. that's all.
Don't buy our shit. Please don't! Ever again!
Sadly people don't listen even if the corp screams at the top of their lungs like EA does with SimCity.
I still don't understand why a game that costs $50 in the US should cost 50 euros in Europe.
UK customer don't seem to be affected by these strange currency conversions.
This old system has become a HUGE annoyance in the modern streaming era, particularly if you're trying to watch Netflix outside the U.S. (since those movie licensing agreements are still such a goddamned mess, even in an era when streaming crosses every old national and regional border).
That's one of the things I like with Free/Libre OpenSource Software:
If I want to download a copy from internet, I can do it from everywhere. I can pretty much get my favourite Linux distro without any licensing / regional distributor / retail chains madness.
Only very few restriction apply.
- Some digital copyright law, might require acquire DRM-decoding libraries from elsewhere (decss not available in the US or some EU countries).
- Some patent law, might require acquiring codecs from elsewhere (no mp3 nor h264 are available wherever software patent apply).
- Some import/export law might require acquiring encryption from elsewhere (do still the USA consider large bits key encryption as "munition" and ban its export ?)
And any way this restrictions boil down to "get these pieces from places where it is not illegal for them to be provided to you"
(most of the time: download them from servers outside of the USA).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
They can charge what they want to with pretty much no competition. Why not fire up a kickstarter campaign to add whatever features are missing to their open source competition? Maybe it'd be cheaper to hire some programmers to do that, as well. Especially since that could be a project funded and worked on globally.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
At Least Microsoft was honest.
They are all simply charging what the market will bear. Apparently Australians want Creative Suite so badly that they will pay a fortune for it So, why shouldn't Adobe charge more?
To use the old car analogy, it's no different than Toyota's "Availability charge". An extra $1,000 or $2,000 just because that model is popular and selling well.
The only real question is; will the Australian parliament attempt outlaw business profits or the business profits of foreign companies. If they do, then I would expect these companies to stop doing business in Oz and for Australians to HAVE to fly out of the country to buy their software.
In my experience Adobe software is more expensive outside the United States in general. It's understandable in Europe where they've got 20% VAT, in addition to a ton of other tariffs. But in Australia their VAT is 10%, considered one of the lowest in the world; I suppose, except for the US which has none. There may be import duties that are not being mentioned here, but it still wouldn't explain why the software is $1000 more expensive than in the US.
However, I've noticed the trend elsewhere, including where I worked in Taiwan. Where Adobe software was considerably more expensive. It was ironic considering how rampant piracy was there. In our case we went through grey market channels, where someone purchased a bunch of copies in the US and resold them there. That or we'd get someone in the States to buy us a copy. Either way, we definitely weren't rushing out to buy the latest versions. So if anything, Adobe was discouraging sales.
There was a lot of weirdness. Some software was cheaper than in the US. But then electronics were barely on par, and in some cases even Taiwanese-made laptops, for example, were actually cheaper than you'd find in the US. I do know that companies were levied various taxes and tariffs so that may have accounted for some of it.
As far as I know, Australia's median income isn't higher than the US. So it seems that for whatever reason Adobe is gouging them. That said, good luck finding a plane ticket for anywhere near $1000.
FTFA: "Adobe’s US software can be used in Australia but not covered by warranty, he said."
Really? Since when do they have a real warranty on software anyhow?
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
A company gave an honest answer? :D"
I was expecting all of these companies to give bullshit reasons, and Microsoft just straight up said "Oh, lol, cause we can
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Importing UK Blu-rays into USA? Did you also import a player for them? Otherwise, I don't see how you're not in violation of federal law (i.e. the DMCA) whenever you're watching one of them (Blu-ray region codes).
________
Entranced by anime since late summer 2001 and loving it ^_^
Make your own.
Or pirate.
Keep the huge price jacks going! And jack them up by at least the same percentage next year. Also make sure your BSA keeps up their work.
While normally I am not opposed to pirating, please people do not pirate their software!! Just stick with good old FOSS.
Australians to Adobe: bugger off.
Australia Adobe store - Creative Suite 6 Master Collection - US$ 4,530.00
Brazil Adobe store - Creative Suite 6 Master Collection - US$ 5,055.00
Brazil, where a car made here is sold for R$ 56.210, and the same car, but with more optionals, is exported to Mexico (over 7000 Km away) and is sold there for R$ 25.800. Take that Australia!
So then these companies (Adobe, Microsoft, Apple, etc.) freak out when so much of their software is pirated. I lived in Spain a number of years and the pirated software is everywhere including in government. They can't afford to buy it so they steal it. Not to mention the open software movement. These companies are the reason it does so well in these poorer countries.
This makes me feel like going back to pirating Microsoft software, especially knowing that for every dollar I give them they pay $0 in tax. If they could raise their profits by eating babies, they'd do it, to the mantra of "that's business".
Robson said the cloud-delivered software is cheaper because it doesn’t have to go through traditional distribution and retail channels. He added that Adobe would prefer selling products over the cloud.
cloud deliverrd software is cheaper because we will make more money over time with a subscription model that reaches into your pocket for a seemingly small amount, than a large upfront fee that causes everyone to pirate.
Silence is a state of mime.
Seriously, what the hell are you talking about? Have you ever been to Australia?
It is not "consumer friendly" at all. Granted it is not as hard core as the "stab your neighbor in the face and take his money" capitalism in the US, but it is close. Corporations have massive power over consumers in Australia. Most Australians would attribute this to American corporate and government manipulation. Though I say, BS. It is ones own job to keep his house in order.
Seriously. There are organized trips now to the US. Not just for TVs and games and stuff like that.
People will fly to US and buy their entire kitchen set. (Most can work both 110v and 220v now).
Even after paying the shipping container and the VAT, it is still significantly cheaper than buying in Australia.
If shit is expensive, leave it linger. Who gives a flying cockadoodledoo what it costs somewhere else... Adobe is way overrated and a greedy bastard famous for shafting people, none this is news...
Fortunately it's not the only player around.
Those days are over, thanks to Google.
Maybe you have heard of Google's book scanning program? They can rent these machines which take screen shots with the monitor upside down very quickly.
The real problem is that the copy of Adobe acrobat pro needed to perform the OCR is so expensive there, the cost does not come down.
The fact that Australians keep buying this stuff in spite of the price, shows that it's not really too expensive. If it were too expensive, they'd just say no, or they'd do as many people suggest, and import it themselves.
This is really about envy. Australians aren't saying software prices are high; they're saying they're higher than the prices Americans are paying. Maybe they're higher for some stupid and unfair reasons, but they're still not high, as evidenced by the purchases. It's like someone being content with their salary, then they find out how a coworker make more money, and suddenly they're "underpaid."
What's especially hilarious is that the examples are all about "boxed" software: commodity stuff which is relatively easily replaced. If they were complaining that the native programmers were charging too much for custom development, I might have some sympathy, but that's not what I'm hearing.
You can whine that Gimp or a hundred other image utilities aren't suitable replacements for Photoshop for some particular job, but for most people's jobs (including mine) PS really is replaceable. I bet that's the case for 90% of Adobe's sales, if I may pull a stinky number out of my hairy ass.
JUST SAY NO! Those three words solve most of life's problems, and this problem is just another example. But people don't say no, and that leads me to the conclusion that there isn't really any "problem" at all. Australians, I declare that you are happy.
Last time I was in Kauai and Maui, it seemed like a huge chunk of the tourists were now from Australia. I talked to some of them, and they said it's actually cheaper for them to vacation in Hawaii than Bali which is closer (and more third world). And of course they said all this while doing the hand motion for throwing dollar bills out in front of them while ordering a free round for everyone around them.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
Maybe Australia should look at what tariffs it's government is charging. In this case, I suspect Apple is right.
Because we don't pull this happy horse shit.
It's just the tax all non-Americans have to pay to ensure America remains great.
Boomerangification means you have to do things like make the Delete key be temporary--content returns. And the "Enter" key must say "Return" like the old days.
Table-ized A.I.
AT LOT of people could get by with Corel products are 1/20 the price.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
When I worked at a very well known international humanitarian aid organization, we tried asking Adobe a few years back if we could buy their products directly from them, instead of via third parties here in Norway.
We were told that, no, we had to buy it Norway at full price, and it would be a breach of license to buy it from anywhere in the US.
At that time it cost about 17000NOK in the US, while it costed 38000NOK here in Norway (about $2800 vs. $6300). With a few licenses that adds up. And seeing where that money came from, it could've been used for a lot of good!
So the question is: Has Adobe changed their practice?
Their explanation for the difference in price was that "We've defined Norway as a high cost country". But wth, at that point they didn't even have representatives here!
My explanation, simple greed.
They might have changed practice since then for all I know and care. I've got alternatives, and do not use them anymore. In my line of work, that is quite a few lost sales for them since then.
PS: Posting as anon because of the sensitivity of the issue.
I recall years ago reading that Thailand Windows licenses being reduced to US$6 when their gov't threatened to roll out a "standard" Linux-based distro to their school system. Meanwhile I was expected to pay $150 or more. Creative pricing that most people are too dumb or numb or to accustomed to turning around & bending over...
Imagine if the government of Australia, rather than bitching about prices, actually funded GIMP or LibreOffice directly? I'll bet that MS and Adobe would 'adjust' their pricing accordingly as this would not just affect Australia's buying preferences, but the markets worldwide.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Even after paying the shipping container and the VAT, it is still significantly cheaper than buying in Australia.
So why is there no business which buys goods in the US, ships them to Australia and undercuts the prices there then? That's not illegal, they could do it for a lot less than a commercial plane ticket and private shipping and you would not need to get felt up or irradiated by US security.
If any group in Australia would like to commission me to bring them a case of Adobe products, I am available. :)
Creative Suite would be expensive at a tenth of the price.
I used to work for Adobe doing support escalations - "Australian" support reps were under strict rules not to support grey marketed apps and had to call US support numbers for any help. US support would help you in ways they could, but if you needed replacement disks or whatever - they wouldn't ship overseas. US support reps couldn't even register the apps because it won't let you enter Aussie zip codes/phone numbers.
I say "Australian" btw because its just a local number that transfers the call to a robot in India.
> What is it that the US has against VAT? You have sales taxes etc. instead that perform the same purpose.
> Do you even understand how VAT works?
I don't know what the US has. But as an American who lived in Europe for years, I do understand about how VAT works, and I know what I have against it. I dislike it because
1. It obscures the amount of tax paid. Our system, whatever its faults, reminds me _every purchase_ of how much government costs. It remains to be seen what will happen here or in Europe as a result of governmental profligacy, but the European approach is not automatically better, and at this point, doesn't look all that promising.
2. It is regressive. The more you spend on consumption, the more tax you pay, and the poor spend a higher proportion of their income on consumption. Of course, you can mess with the system to try to neutralize some of this. But doing just provides opportunity to the lawyers and accountants.
3. It would be more complicated for us than for European states. We have several levels of taxing authority: federal, state, county, city, and even occasionally "special taxing districts." These vary from place to place. Keeping track of it all through manufacture and distribution would be complicated.
VAT is just a convenient way for governments to tax and to spend more without it being so obvious. I think the financial troubles of European countries in the last couple of years - apart from the famous prudence of the deutsche Hausfrau - are adequate evidence that we shouldn't rush to copy European (and Canadian) practice.
Would I be right in assuming that adobe make some of the most pirated non-game software available? This kind of behaviour almost seems designed to encourage piracy. Apple and many others do similar things to us poor aussies, and now that our dollar is stronger than it has been in a long time, it makes it all the more galling. The fact that there are companies set up purely to circumvent stupid policies like this surely is a sign of the stupidity of it; (read the forums on whirlpool.net.au re: use of mail forwarding services like myus + VPNs to circumvent such idiocy) I have lots of sympathy for companies that lose money to piracy, but its hard to have too much sympathy when there are clear cases of price gouging like this.
This is just gonna encourage more piracy.
For physical items I buy in the US when I can. And when I can't, I use a US shipping remailer. There's dozens of them around. I use shipito which gives me 2 physical addresses in the US, and 1 in Hong Kong and 1 in Europe. But google US remailer, you'll find dozens of these, do your research and pick one that looks good or has competitive pricing.
I also have a US phone number (just SIP service, but its easy to find US VoIP providers, hell you can even use Skype.)
And with US number and address you're pretty much as good as there. Some places might want a US credit card and address which is trickier, but you can (usually) get around that. Just say you're 'from Australia or in my case NZ but just visiting the US for 2 months' etc and that'll usually work.
But yeah. When it comes to software or anything digital, honestly, fuck them. Just pirate it.
Personally I think there SHOULD be government intervention and personally I think the government should outright state they won't care to protect copyright holders copyrights when they price gouge so substantially effectively making their software unaffordable.
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
I don't know the price landscape in Australia but...
I live in Switzerland and I see the price differences for import items coming from neighbour countries.
A book from Germany, just by passing the border is 30% more expensive, a cloth from Italy 50% more, and you name it...
How can this be, especially when you take in account that the VAT in EU countries is much higher than in Switzerland ?
Well, I came to the conclusion that the reason for it is: we pay the price without complaining !
Every company selling whatever in Switzerland simply apply the "how much would they be willing to pay for it" rule and therefore end up with fantasy prices.
A lot of international friends always states that we have such huge salaries here in Switzerland, well we need them to pay such ridiculous expensive goods !
Boycot all the products having fantasy prices !
The price of Ubuntu, LibreOffice and Gimp is the same there as here.
I used to have Semantec anti-virus till I discovered they were charging me $50 more than if I was living in the US/Europe (any other part of the world) for their products yearly subscription. They lost me a few years ago, so that's hundreds of dollars they haven't been getting from me. I switched to another anti-virus (two actually). People like Adobe know they have unique software, which is why they charge what they do. I say screw them, (and all other price gougers) I'd rather work with a lesser product/s than have these pirates extort extra money from my pocket just because I live in Australia. I've been using GIMP since 1996, and have never owned a copy of Abode Photoshop. I think all Australian companies/individuals should switch to GIMP (or another alternate) tomorrow just to let Adobe know how we feel about their pricing policy. (And switch to anything else of Adobe's that can be replaced by an alternate ... not sure how you'd replace Acrobat professional though.