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Belief In God Correlates With Better Mental Health Treatment Outcomes
Hatta writes "According to researchers from Harvard Medical School, belief in god is correlated with improved outcomes of treatment for depression. Quoting: 'In the study, published in the current issue of Journal of Affective Disorders, researchers comment that people with a moderate to high level of belief in a higher power do significantly better in short-term psychiatric treatment than those without. "Belief was associated with not only improved psychological well-being, but decreases in depression and intention to self-harm," says David H. Rosmarin, Ph.D., an instructor in the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School.' This raises interesting questions. Does this support the concept of depressive realism? If the association is found to be causal, would it be ethical for a psychiatrist to prescribe religion?"
Is there ANY reason for this to be an article on /.
Or is this just just a blatant example of editors posting flame-fodder?
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Correlate to better outcomes during sex?
That's what people crave. They can't live with the possibility that life might have no meaning at all, that we're just here and should make the best of it.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
"If the association is found to be causal, would it be ethical for a psychiatrist to prescribe religion?"
No.
inb4 shitstorm
yes, your daily routine is better if you believe that everything will be all right. Has little to do with the belief that someone is 'watching over' you. I can't stand the term 'higher power'
It's much easier to just realize there's no god (and resolve your mental illness) then it would be to address real problems, like depression...
Makes sense, at least in my point of view. I'm a atheist, and I have got into depressions regarding the meaning of life, the un/fairness behind it, a lot of trascendental questions, also a fear of death, which people that believes in a god, with fervor, may not feel, since they may believe there is a life after death, there is a meaning behind everything, that there is a god that loves you, etc.
If it doesn't relate our beliefs to a deep-seated fixation on the anus due to repressed sexual desires for one's mother, it can hardly be called real science.
Intellectual poison...
Didn't even read the summary. What is this doing on Slashdot? Can we please ban everything related to God here?
I'm so sick of religious scum. Please go and drown yourselves. This includes all christian assholes.
Thanks
Who'd a thunk it?
That ignorance is bliss.
The key thing missing in the headline: "In treatment of depression".
Other things missing: "in one isolated study", "in an article summarizing the study, without any direct link to the research", and of course, "a highly biased interpretation meant to generate views based on obvious controversy."
Keep in mind, this may also be highly cultural, as many nations have much larger percentage non-believing populations, but not worse depression or suicide rates that correlate.
Ryan Fenton
It's God's will. God is testing me. It's beyond my control. There's also the "God gives me strength" angle.
I suppose it's easier to overcome mental health problems if one believes that they bear no responsibility for their troubles and that an infinitely powerful being will make everything okay if they just believe. A metaphysical placebo.
It's a bit rougher if you've only got yourself to blame for your shortcomings and believe the strength to overcome must come from within.
Then you can be tricked into believing you can be helped by the doctor. A weak mind is easily manipulated. Both for good and evil.
I've heard that heroine is also very good at masking problems.
If you believe that the inventor of the universe and all it contains has a personal interest in little old you and really wants you to do well and join him in forever Disneyland. . .
Seriously, a link to the source instead of to the actual study.
http://www.jad-journal.com/article/S0165-0327%2812%2900599-X/abstract
There, now I don't feel like dropping $31 to read their methodology, but unless it was from a large cross section of people in very different geographical locale the test does nothing but prove that people from a specific area do well from their belief in god. Perhaps they have a pastor there that helps take care of depressed paritoners? Did they put those that did not believe in god into some form of community? Generally church goers have access to a support system via the church, which can help immensely with depression. Unless they compared that with a number depressed atheist who also had decent support systems, the test does nothing except prove you can get a study to say anything you like if you eliminate enough outside factors from the methodology.
Does it also correlate with more than usual incidences of requiring help for such maladies?
Who did what now?
He's Jewish! I call shenanigans on a religious psychiatrist's evaluation of subjects with relation to mental stability.
Having an invisible friend that you know not only believes in you but genuinely loves you is a powerful thing. I'd be very interested to know if people with human friends who love and believe in them enjoy the similar success.
""If you won't let me lie I can't make you feel better." ~Charlie Harper/Sheen
Anger Management: Season 2 Episode 11 – Charlie Dates Crazy, Sexy, Angry
Reality as it's given to us by society and interpreted through rationality IS depressing. The secret is - you don't stop there, you keep going. deeper.
Remember when people were aware that emotions are useless. Oh, nostalgia.
"That a believer is happier than a sceptic is no more to the point than a drunk man being happier than a sober one."
Without knowing how many religious people get mental health issues compared to the same amount of non-religious people, it would be difficult to have a baseline. In the modern world, the most horrendous cases of nuttiness seem to have religion as a drive.
After all, if God didn't want you to do something, you'd get a message.
Therefore, whatever you want to do is okay.
It's a same we can't moderate the article as flamebait.
Religions were invented to help people coup with fear, to shift the reasons for actions unknown to a supreme being whom no one can see. Correctly applied, religions do help people overcome psychological barriers. The way I see it is like in marriage, if you don't talk to your spouse then eventually a wall develop around you, making the relationship colder and less meaningful. Just by trusting each other, you can feel much relieved. A belief in a supreme being accomplishes the same thing, as He (always a he in most religions) supposedly always loves you. A before you guys mod me down, I'm a non-believer who find much flaws in religions. But I never deny its benefits in some cases. After all, your body is only as strong as your mind is. Now you can mod me down.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016503271200599X
Their p-values are barely squeaking by at just under the .05 level. There could also be some confounding variables they didn't factor into their analysis.
It would give you the sense that no matter what someone does care and all the other wonderful feelings that come with a belief system. There is supposedly a religious area of the brain, so I can believe that it may help.
There is nothing at all wrong with that. Most people have some sort of belief system, be it religious or another spiritual sense.
The dangerous part is when the church or governing body of that belief system is corrupt and they tell you that you must believe their word and that is it. Examples include the proclamation of the Catholic church that condoms are evil or un-chrisitian, thus preventing religious people that wish to partake in sex unable to use some sort of contraception to prevent the spread of diseases like AIDS.
I use this example strictly because it is fresh in my mind from watching a debate on whether "The Catholic Church is a Force for Good in the World."
I don't believe it would be ethical to recommend a specific religion to a patient, but letting them know about the communities that follow religions and the support network they can form I see nothing wrong with.
People are so worried about how long they have to live and what will happen to them after death that they forget to enjoy the life they have. A close relative was diagnosed with low grade lymphoma a few months ago (manageable but unfortunately uncurable ) and she wander why I took such a devastating diagnosis to open her eye to the happiness of everyday life. "I don’t take life for granted anymore. I learned to live in the moment. I also realized that when I live in the present moment, life is wonderful" she said to me. It sounded like a frigging cliche but she seems happier than she has ever been. Perhaps we are just wired to constantly worry and its only when faced with the prospect of death that we realize how futile an effort it is.
I guess it would depend on whether or not you see belief in God as an act of lunacy.
If a depressed person feels that "god" has a purpose for them, they're more likely to power through until things get better. Faith in purpose is really what was just correlated...
You want long-term outcomes, try believing in yourself.
Definitely not ethical to recommend someone who is depressed to take up a religion. Isn't this just recruiting suicide bombers for the religious crazies?
While its still just one study, its worth trying to replicate and research some more (ever wondered what religion is the best anti-drepressant?)
Its not as if the research is suggesting we all become religious. Its just saying that in certain cases, the belief in a higher entity may be beneficial for a certain healing process. And that is good to know. Possibly there is an underlying reason why this is better and we can possibly help cure depressions more easily thanks to this discovery.
"Religion is a ruse that must be maintained for the masses."
-Said by someone I cant for the life of me remember, and probably even said differently, but the basis remains the same.
I understood it then, same as I understand it now, Humans are simple creatures (when it comes to emotions and feelings), without something to BELIEVE in (god, religion, the fact that humanity doesn't suck as a whole and doesn't deserve to populate the earth we constantly trash), or strive towards (that perfect family and life so many religious nutters push upon other's), they will become depressed and aimless and as stated, self destructive.
The fact that it took a study to figure this out... Well, I repeat my own comment about Humanity being undeserving of populating this planet.
-AC1856
After reading the article, I just feel there is one thing wrong with it.
And that is that it says "a believe in God". And not, "a believe in a higher power". It gives a wrong image, sure, in the article itself they say that even people that didn't list a particular religion but still believed in a higher power of some sorts also were among the group where treatment was best.
Saying "a believe in God" kinda implies a believe in the biblical God, to most people in europe and the us. All in all, I think they should not mix "a believe in God" with "a believe in a god". Perhapse their intention is the same, but the first one has a bigger chance to lead to the wrong idea.
Also, I find it odd that one of the questions was if they believed the treatment would help or not and that the article has no conclussion based on that question. It seems to me to be at least as important if not more that the patient believes their treatment will help rather than if there is a god.
People who are delusional and believe that something else is responsible for their behavior and condition and thus can fix them have a "positive mental health outcome"? Really?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Shouldn't mental health be treating delusional behavior instead of encouraging it?
Disagreeing with you does not make me a troll.
Believers are more likely to be less intelligent, which may reduce the risk of depression.
There is a nice article in wikipedia
The point being, if the patient believes it works, sometimes it does.
Because Long term, it's all the same. That's why AA does not publish recidivism rates for the year.
"Belief was associated with not only improved psychological well-being, but decreases in depression and intention to self-harm," So, instead of referring to the likelihood the inmate/patient has to hide/stop the pills, it's journalism to refer only to self-harm. Try, Belief was associated with long-term success on antidepressants.
Another way to look at their results is that there needs to be an improvement in the psychological treatment of atheists because there may be some bias in the treatment that tends to push people to appeal to the spiritual. Maybe a bit like AA.
There is a distinct lack of research in the area of atheist vs theist rates of psychological problems. Of the available research, here is one such study that suggests that atheists are less likely to suffer from depression:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/buggle_20_4.html
I haven't done the digging yet but the submitted article smells like the Templeton Foundation may have had an influence.
Of course none of which provides evidence as to the existence `God' or even the effectiveness of psychiatric treatment in general. What it does do is demonstrate the beliefs and prejudices of the people carrying out the `study'. eg, Someone who believes in a `higher power' asks a vulnerable adult if they believe in a `higher power', if so they allocate them higher marks. Now what would be the results if Richard Dawkins carried out the study.
AccountKiller
All behaviorist psychology is based on the idea that people is gullible and easy to manipulate. So, sure, if the treatment's success is directly correlated to how gullible the person is, then creationists will be cured in nanoseconds. Maybe Freudian/Lacanian psychoanalysis, or any other technique that respects the intelligence of the patient would have a better outcome with people that aren't absolute retards.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
People with legs in casts get around better on crutches than those who struggle without.
Because I can totally see belief in certain gods being correlated with catastrophically negative outcomes.
By passing the size of this study for the moment.
From article: "Of the patients sampled, more than 30 percent claimed no specific religious affiliation yet still saw the same benefits in treatment if their belief in a higher power was rated as moderately or very high."
No religious affiliation means effectively that the higher power is just a way of imagining something looking out for you, caring for you and loving you.
I am not surprised that if you imagine there is someone caring about you and loving you you are going to feel more positive about life in general. That it is imaginary means it can not disappoint you. That the very act of that imagination is providing a short term positive future.
I'm sure if a patient had an actual love affair with a real human being, the effects would be the similar if not superior.
If on the other hand some therapist suggested to me personally that a I might like to think there is a higher power looking out for me, it would send me into a deeper depression because if that is how they think my mind works I really must despair.
We are also embedded in a culture where believing in a god (of some description) is seen as more socially normal than those who do not.
Normal is sometimes the more attractive option to the depressed than their current state. Simply joining the "belief group" is a social inclusive particularly over the short term.
That this question is being asked inside a treatment context, it's hard to think that that isn't a bias in the way people are treated, and it doesn't take much for such a bias to undermine any other treatment.
I do hope they don't think that taking up the habit of thinking of a higher power is a treatment option. If that is the case, perhaps a drug addiction should be considered a treatment too.
And I guess I would be happier I could believe in some god that was in control and could help instead of being all alone. A bit of blind faith in that magic can happen probably makes you feel safer. :)
On the other hand, I have never felt so free and relieved as when I finally decided to leave the church. Of course it's a bit scary when you realize you can't rely on superstition.
Prescribing religion isn't the same thing as prescribing pills. I can ingest all the pills you want me to, but there's no "on" switch for suddenly professing belief in some deity.
All knowledge can only be encoded as belief. The ancient greeks made the distinction between belief and knowledge such that to say "a flat-earther KNOWS the world is flat" is an incorrect use of the word "knows". Only inferior "believes" fits there. The implication is that a belief is a broken piece of knowledge - broken because it is not true. However, since all knowledge can only be encoded in the mind as a belief, the sample sentence above is indeed "more true" than the conventional meaning.
So, conventionally it is believed by many highly effective people that "belief" is bad and "knowledge" is good. Ie, that the errors due to belief confer a mental blindness - an inability to grasp further concepts that whilst it goes unchecked, will forever cripple the mind concerned. And this is true. It is thought that there should be no limit to intelligence, should one pursue the course of examining all that one holds to be true, so as to weed out the falsehoods.
Here's a "truth" that none we know have weeded out - We are each individuals. (Then how can people be, missing half a brain? How can MPD exist?)
We might at some logical level accept the fact that we can be internally divided, but we always believe in the very concept of our inner self, that it is one monolithic thing. I think therefore I am.
But this can not be true - everything we know about the operation of neural networks leads us to the inescapable conclusion that our "core" being is in fact a distributed one. Not one individual, but the effects of a massive choir of tiny pieces, the effort of the "thought" shifting smoothly through the collective. Indeed. think a thought too repetitively and one will tire of that thought - because the true individual that encodes it cannot stay active for very long, before its local resources are exhausted.
I believe that the reason AI research has failed to convince so far, is that all the things that modernists despise about our minds - our weaknesses, our mental vulnerabilities - are in fact reflections and faults in mechanisms utterly necessary for our "minds" to exist. Without them, we would be dysfunctional. One of these things is the capability to hold some thought patently incorrect as the gospel Truth. To believe despite evidence to the contrary. To in fact get stronger in one's belief purely by the exercise of this capability.
So the ideal of the "smart guy". The Spock character, the HAL9000, the Skynet - these are just extensions of the character of God. The childish hope that perfection is achievable, but cast so from the mind of the modern scientist. One who will no doubt claim that he does not "believe" in his science, because he "knows" it is the truth. (And by the conventional distinction above, he is "technically correct"). But it is a hollow victory. His believes surely must be "better" than those of the religious nut. After all, the survival of the majority of humanity alive today does rest on the wisdom that enables solid engineering.
But then why are so many "broken" minded people (here to be taken to mean: those unable to employ the engineering wisdom that is their birthright, because it is encoded in sometimes mathematical concepts that they cannot grasp, due to their beliefs) able to survive and flourish? Why is it that ignorance is bliss?
Because in fact the reverse is true - too much "accurate-mindedness" leads directly to depression. The first to understand the second law of thermodynamics - the truest known and most generally accurate predictive model in all Science - died of depression. So did the next guy to follow his work.
The hard truth is, that removing all the pink-stained glass between one's perception of reality, and reality itself - is inherently dangerous. One sees too much of the big picture. One loses faith that the future will ever be an improvement. One unavoidably loses the will to live. to try.
The only way to survive this, is to accept that one cannot be "perfectly minded" - that indeed such a mind could only ever immediately se
But to have a sense of purpose in a meaningless world, it needs to be packaged properly. Religion is just a very effective and time-tested vessel for purpose.
Yeah. I live in the Bible belt. I see folks who are happy as clams because firmly believe that there's something up there looking out for them and loves them - no matter what shit happens to them.
They've have seen every single rational argument against their beliefs and they ignore them because "in their heart they know God exists".
And they take great comfort from it.
It's creepy - it's just as bad as hearing adults talk about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny like they were real. Imagine, an adult who asks Santa Claus for help with life.
Everyone, including people of "faith" would be quite concerned about that person.
Swap out "Santa Claus" for "God" and you're eligible for President - as a matter fact, you couldn't get elected unless you believed in Santa, er, God.
So what's my purpose?
To be kind. To be compassionate. To do what I can to help others and also have long term hedonism .....
Basically everything that Buddha and the character Jesus taught without all the hangups and non-sense about the supernatural.
Jesus didn't exist. There's very little historical proof he existed and more than likely was made up. His entire story is a copy of Dionysius and a couple of other Greek gods.
I hate to say this, but I have come to the conclusion that Christianity is one of the biggest scams that has ever been perpetrated on the human race - so far.
The other religions are on its heels.
Prescribing religion is is a nonsense: faith is not a rational thing people adopt at will. People just have it, or they do not .
As a side note, I am agnostic, with a bias toward atheism, since God looks to me like a very complicated explanation of how the world is. It does not even explain how the universe was born : created by God, but who created God itself? But as I am getting older, I now realize that life is easier to deal with for people that have faith. I recognize faith is a strength, even it makes no sense to me.
Prescribe "religion"? Not to a schizophrenic who is having command delusions from God, Jesus, et al. (Some would argue that AA etc do just that, transfering one addiction to another...)
I'm almost ready to call out devout "faith" a disorder. It is not possible to have rational discussions with people like this, even about inane topics such as the weather. It is impossible to even agree to disagree with them. If it's not god this it is satan that.
-JC. Sent from my Android phone
You stumbled into a very obvious false dichotomy trying to make a dig at believers here. It's perfectly possible, even necessary from an Abrahamic (as in all 3 religions) perspective to say that you bear responsibility and that God will deliver you. Far from being an avoidance of responsibility it becomes a rallying point to take responsibility and move forward.
This reflects Jung’s view that modern, rational man, having denied the validity of the gods and myths, has come to experience the psychic forces embodied by these spiritual archetypes as neurotic symptoms. It is this attitude of rational disbelief that Jung, in the 1929 “Commentary” says is “the shortest way to the insane asylum.” In the Red Book, however, Jung seems to be saying that his discovery that the gods are indeed aspects of the unconscious, is itself a “wound” that threatens one with insanity, an insanity from which one can heal oneself. It is in the process of this discovery and healing that one discovers one’s soul.
http://theredbookofcgjung.blogspot.com/2009/12/jung-on-self-and-god-i-and-thou-part-i.html
Because since the god-believing patient was obviously more deranged before treatment, even a small gain in mental status would equate to a greater mental health outcome.
It takes a special kind of mind to accept religion. Seriously. Across the whole spectrum of religious personalities, you may notice some commonalities and patterns along the way. But at the end of the day, it's about wanting something more powerful to dominate one in some capacity. After all, when was the last time you heard a believer say something like "I truly believe there is a god but I sure wish there wasn't." Religion is something which is not just wanted, it's just about needed for such people. They lack the ability to face reality without some way to tidy things up in some way... to know there are causes and reasons and purposes even if they may never know what they are.
Maybe I shouldn't say special kind of mind though... it takes a common one. I wish all who are in the 12 step program much luck.
higher rates of insanity?
The persecution that people feel from not being able to live up to the confusing examples of religion, and the various interpretations of it, could be responsible for the illness to begin with.
no
replace one imaginary friend with another.
they say it is often more relevant then the comment above, all we know is its called the Sig!
Thats the culprit. A bad meme that goes deep into our culture. Somewhat (tales, histories, songs, movies that we learn since childhood) we expect that the people that behave well get successful, and the evil ones get punished. But when is becoming too evident that it don't happen at all (bankers, corporations, and politicians in general, get richer, or even get honored for what they did), you only hope against depression is to believe that they will go to hell as they will never be punished here.
The chief researcher's curriculum vitae: http://www.spiritualityandhealth.duke.edu/resources/pdfs/David%20Rosmarin.pdf (search the doc for "spiritual")
Not to say that he can't be right, but he has been pursuing this idea of "religious people are happier/mentally healthier" for several years. He has a lot invested and a lot of publications on the matter. It doesn't give the impression of a researcher free of bias.
I'd be interested in knowing what they controlled for when calculating the strength of the effect they found. Did they account for age, family history, income, race, sex and social involvement?
Starting to sound like not only do you need to think it will work, you need the placebo gene.
is a river in Egypt.
Like the inimitable Groucho Marx, I would never join a club that would have me as a member.
I wonder what a belief in J.R. Bob Dobbs does for one's mental health.
Some would argue that religion (blind faith in an untestable hypothesis) is in itself a mental health issue...
But that too is my big question with this study. Without correcting for the likelihood of a religious vs non-religious person experiencing these issues in the first place, it's hard to say if being religious is actually a net benefit or detractor in this case.
There are however relevant studies that equate higher levels of religion with lower levels of education, and with lower income levels, not to mention the fact that criminals are more likely to be religious than the general population, and given that all of those groups also have higher levels of mental health issues, there is certainly an argument to be made.
I'd say at the least, further research would be needed.
You misread the article. Knowing God leads to better mental health outcomes. Ignorance of God leads to prolonged misery. Ignorance is misery.
It is as Jesus said: you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.
It is as Colonel Jessup said: You can't handle the truth.
Religion never be prescribed as a treatment for a mental disorder. Religion is itself a form of delusion.
Some people are self motivated in life and address problems head on and take accountability for things. Others seek for external sources to bolster them or drive them. This is why you find an awful lot of people who "find jesus/islam/whatever" at the bottom of a bottle, the bottom of a crack vial, or inside the walls of a prison cell. That isn't to say these people do nothing to better themselves, but that these are people who cling to an external source -- real or not -- to motivate themselves.
I believe this is what we are usually referring to when we say things like "if believing in XYZ helps your life, then good for you".
Belief in God is/was actually a big part of the major mental breakdown that turned my wife into my ex. After more than twelve years the trainwreck keeps on coming. Maybe her beliefs keep the trainwreck from getting any worse, but from where I'm sitting her beliefs are the kind to be avoided at all cost.
Too little, and you are a depressed atheist. Too much and you have sudden uncontrollable violent urges to blow up Olympic events and fly planes into buildings.
And what about the truly mentally ill people who fixate that god is telling them to drown their children? Who else would have the authority in their minds to demand that?
I am not saying the belief in God is pernicious. But it seems like there is a certain toxic baggage that has accumulated along with organized religion that keeps people dying a lot.
Surviving isnt enough.
Yes, it is allowed. It is Pope-approved. What is not allowed is sex outside of marriage or the use of birth control to prevent a marriage from producing children. If the man gets butt-raped and thus ends up with HIV, he may certainly use a condom to avoid infecting his wife.
If the law were aligned with the Catholic church, condoms might require a precription. They'd only be available to married couples in which one person has a disease that the other one doesn't. Likewise, birth control pills would be for married women with hormonal problems of the sort that cause severe bleeding during menstration.
Compared to most other church teachings, these positions are actually quite logical. They are the obvious rational conclusion you reach if you start with the belief that sex should be within a marriage and the belief that married people should welcome children into their lives as blessings from God.
In statistical analysis, the smaller the sample size, the higher the probability of artifacts which invalidate causal determinations.
Think of it this way: "6 Americans were polled. More than 80% of them believe the president is doing a good job." -Would you take that result as an accurate representation of the broad national opinion?
Of course not.
As a mathematical rule, small sample groups can show extremes plus or minus, which can easily lead to intuitive errors in judgment regarding causality. This problem plagues epidemiology.
Some of the people with the worst mental health problems think they actually are talking to god.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
The big green man in the sky will make your life worth living!
this is something depressed smart people say to make themselves justifed that they have such an accurate view of reality it MUST be why they feel bad
Yes: In organised religions the aim is to maintain a membership base and fear is a good way to prevent people from leaving.
No: In non-organised religions there is no such aim. Instead the aim is to find purpose in life. One is expected and encouraged to challenge the religion by questioning everything about it.
Examples of non-organised religions (actually more like spiritual beliefs) are Buddhism, Shamanism, Gnosticism...
If you believe in something that is greater than you - whether it be God or Buddha or Yaweh or Allah or Satan what-ever-name-it-is - you have some sort of "psychological protective vest"
When I was younger I did not believe in the so-called "power of prayer" (no matter which religion it is, or which God the prayer supposed to go to). I thought the thing is rubbish
Then as I age, I get to see a repeat --- cases of, how shall I put it, "miracles" --- where patients that the medical doctors have given up on, made drastic recoveries
I can't explain how the thing works, I am only an independent observer on that process
Perhaps, just perhaps, deep inside our psyche, there is a force that we have not yet touch upon, a force so great that it can fight whatever illness the body has been infected with --- and perhaps, it's the "belief system" that there is something "more powerful than us", through "prayer", that made up a "conduit" or sort, that tap on that force deep within our own psyche, to fight the disease that has inflicted much pain and suffering on the victim / patient
Till now, our human scientific knowledge is still very limited, there are still a lot of things that we do not know
Maybe one day our human can get our technoogy advance to the point that we can get "in touch" with that force deep inside our own psyche
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
... especially when you know that you can't even begin to be compared to Christ
No, not in the sense of the religious mumbo-jumbo (that he's the Son of God, and all that)
Even in his most simple form, Christ was very very brave, so brave that he dare to challenge the authority and dare to sacrifice his life for what he believed in
How many of us has the courage to do what Christ did?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
The acolyte Dave spent his years in an erratic quest for purpose.
One day, depressed from his lack of success, he chanced to ask a Zen master, “What is the meaning of life?”
The master said nothing, but cut a slice of cheese and set it before the acolyte.
The next day, the acolyte admitted his lack of understanding, and the master relented, framing the question for him: “As well to ask the meaning of cheese.”
Enlightened, Dave took up the cheese and hungered no more.
Religion is a ruse that must be maintained for the masses."
-Said by someone I cant for the life of me remember, and probably even said differently, but the basis remains the same.
that would be Voltaire:
Religion is Fraud, But must be maintained for the Masses
Mental health issues correlates with IQ
Religousity negatively correlates with IQ
Therefore fewer religous people suffer from mental health issues.
Well, what do you call it when someone insists that something is real with no evidence for its existence? Maybe this...
An Australian government medical publication includes this definition of psychosis
Every last prophet fits this description perfectly.
The fundamental thesis of Judaism/Christianity/Islam is that you have an invisible friend who loves you and can do magic.
Quite obviously anyone who claims to believe this is either a loon or a liar.
The placebo effect is essentially about faith, if you BELIEVE the sugar pill works, it sometimes does.
Religion is ultimately for people who are a bit silly, anyone with a working brain, who questions, who wants to know what the pills contains and how it works... well.. they are going to know sugrose is at most going to help a diabetic patient during an attack but not going to stop say the pain of kidney stones.
Not that people can't still have "faith" even if they know that morphine is the only cure for that, my doctor gave me some high dosis pills to take if the pain became to much with a list of warnings about how I really shouldn't take them if I could stand the pain. It was a nice trick, just by having them I was able to stand the pain for longer and having them in my hand for the moments in between low dosage regular non-addictive pain medicine having worn out and the new pill not yet working fully... well it gave me the strength to continue. BUT it was a faith bases on science, the faith that I could STOP the pain at any moment with the morphine pill made me able to endure it 5 more minutes, 10 more minutes.
I can see the same working for people who have faith in a beard in the sky as long you don't question why an omnipotent god can't just take the kidney stones away. Don't forget, ignorance is bliss. If you can just accept that there is an answer to it all and that it doesn't have to make any sense at all to you because you are not meant to understand gods plan... well... that isn't it logical you would be a more content person then someone who wants to know how a person who talks to a good god can rape kids and not be considered an ally of satan instead?
Don't question, be happy. It is simple. The slave who doesn't rebel isn't whipped and has everything taken care off. No worries and probably selected to breed to create new docile slaves.
Alternatively, question things, want the world to be just and make sense and you are in for a lot of anguish and mental torture. Just imagine what I, a person who does not believe that in a democracy there is room for royalty is going through right now in The Netherlands. Why, like Terry Pratchett wrote, does humanity come with foldable knees. Why is everyone kowtowing to a rather fat useless lardass who couldn't find a german war-criminal to marry so he went to brazil to get the daughter of one? There is nothing remarkable about the guy but most of Holland is falling all over themselves to worship him. WHY?
I can quite see how a person who doesn't question such things would be happier.
Just less of a human being.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Disclosure: I am a Christian who has daily questioned my belief but hold to the commitment I made 30+ years ago. Sometimes I feel good about it, other times I have doubts, but that makes no difference with respect to the commitment I know I made. When I think about atheism though I wonder about the following things. If anyone has good answers it would be helpful at least to me.
1. Where do we come from? As I understand it we evolved. And where did those things come from, as I understand it they spontaneously appeared from a "primordial soup", which existed as a result of "the big bang" which so far as I know there is no explanation for ... just that it must have happened.
2. What are we made of? That would apparently be molecules, which are made of atoms which are made of subatomic particles, of which we can only see evidence of a few given great effort and what we can see seems completely inexplicable. Matter is almost completely empty space, protons should repel each other in a nucleus but are somehow held to together by a "strong force" ... what is that? What is light? What causes gravity, or magnetism? How can we scientifically "know" something when it is built upon complete mystery?
3. What are we for? In most cases those who look for the greatest hope available and strive for it against all odds instead of just giving up are admired. Except in the case of faith they are ridiculed. It seems the atheists are those that when faced with a difficult challenge with small odds of success merely lie down and claim it is hopeless. There is no purpose, there is no future, everything is meaningless. Not only that, but they think that by discounting all except that for which they have direct proof and giving up to the perceived inevitable, that they somehow attain intellectual superiority.
It seems obvious to me that with the 3lbs or so of neurons and fat in our head, and our brief stint on this small earth and limited capacity to perceive, comprehend or remember it that we must either admit to a degree of faith or be logically delusional. Not finding sufficient proof, or having the capacity to comprehend the proof I have for a belief for or against God I instead choose to pursue the goal that offers the greatest hope. Evidence will not be found in carefully constructed arguments, but by looking for those things that make people into better people. Kinder, more generous, more loving, more forgiving, more hopeful. I am aware that many Christians have failed in this regard and I regret that, but I pay more attention to the many that have succeeded.
So depressed people with god feel better when they talk to someone who isn't a priest for a change.
And that's just when they have a nice chat with someone with a degree in pseudo-scientiffic mumbo-jumbo - imagine how much better they'd feel if they talked to a real scientist!
I'll worship the Goddess of BJ's, and if she delivers, I'll be happy.
Table-ized A.I.
According to researchers from Harvard Medical School, belief in god is correlated with improved outcomes of treatment for depression.
So... convince depressed people that they're god, to improve their mental health. That sure is the ultimate way to make people believe in themselves.
Side effects may include: Delusions of grandeur, persecution, and holy wars.
These are atheists, but not the garden variety. Some of them prefer the term "evangelical atheists". That's how I try to refer to them, to try to specify which ones are trying to claim that I must be wrong, and therefore ought to change so that they can feel better about the world.
The ones who politely disagree with me are fine. We'll never agree on the subject, but we can come to an understanding.
When you use the blanket term "atheists" this way, it tends to marginalize those with more reasoned and reasonable stances. They begin to wonder if they really ought to be more like their rabid brethren, or at least if they should come to their own defense.
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
From the abstract ...
Methods:
"Belief in God, treatment credibility/expectancy, emotion regulation and congregational support were assessed prior to treatment."
Results:
"Perceived treatment credibility/expectancy, but not emotional regulation or community support, mediated relationships between belief in God and reductions in depression. No variables mediated relationships to other outcomes. Religious affiliation was also associated with treatment credibility/expectancy but not treatment outcomes."
So I read that as believing in god helps, but the more they believed in both god and the treatment the better they got (sounds like a particularly faithful subgroup).
I would have attributed the religious advantage to partially being a byproduct of religious people having better community support, but this seems to partially contradict that.
I stole this Sig
I find this study to be a load of wishful thinking propaganda. I was a fully committed christian for 20 years, before being diagnosed with bipolar in 2004. I decided I'd be better off sanity wise in 2006 if I was atheist. Since then I've been more stable and better able to cope with my depression and actually treat it rather then pray about it. Praying was a failure it never worked for me, why? There is no god to answer, religion is man-made BS used to control the morons of society.
Are you implying that religion necessarily leads to "war, censorship, or ... state policy".
I hope not, because that would be both factually incorrect, and pitifully bitter.
Religion has been used for that excuse, yes. Repeatedly even. So has atheism, communism, capitalism, imperialism and any number of other -isms. A group of people with strong beliefs made a really big boo-boo? Really? Strange. Never saw that coming.
Maybe we can avoid it in the future by having no strong beliefs. We must stand firm in avoiding all strong beliefs! Oh, wait...
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
or lazy ones.
thanks...
Addiction support groups don't need religion/god necessarily. For some people, it most certainly helps*. The 12 step programs out there, most notably AA, explicitly include a belief in a higher power (usually referred to as God). It's the foundational pivot upon which the program works.
(No, I'm not an AA member. My grandfather was an avid member and supporter, despite not believing in organized religion.)
*(I think it would help anyone, but I admit to being religious. ;-) )
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
If you believe in God, you believe in an invisible omnipresent, omniscient spirit that can talk to you and make things happen for you in the world around you. How is that not a mental illness?
So instead of healing these people, it sounds like they're just substituting one mental illness for another, albeit one that may be a bit less unpleasant to live with.
Parent is AC.
Only responding to ask people not to feed the troll.
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
Why am I not surprised that crazy people need religion? Excuse me please, I need to go and pray to my invisible red dragon for salvation.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Is it really better be happy and delusional, in the land of pixes, gods, trolls, jesuses, witches, and fairies?
I don't anybody says that Religion is bad in general. The problems people righfully have with religion are with those institutions who claim ownership and superiour gouvernance over all things spiritual. These institutions are more or less companies selling a branded variant of some spiritual concept, muddying its true purpose for their own benefit and for nothing more than mere material earthly power. This is particularly true with todays abrahamic religions.
The katholic church for instance, has actually very little to do with the original teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and simular worldviews, but actually is one of the last institutions still holding on to old roman pre-christian concepts (one guy at the top telling everyone what to do, power over kindness, etc.) - curiously exactly the concepts Jesus was up against (and crucified for). It's only that these religions then highjack their leading figure, like for instance Christ to introduce concepts that are actually anti-christian (superiority of white people over afrikans back in the colonists times for instance). You see simular effects in non-abrahamic religions aswell, like buddism, if not as intense.
It's very much like Microsoft claiming to do the best for software in general, and actually doing the opposite while at the same time trying to discredit those who truely care about software (the FOSS community).
I consider myself quite rational, but I personally also do like to entertain the thought that there is a non-physical world that follows other rules than the physical but is interconected with it. I like Seneca, the stoics and the Zen Buddist concept of relitivating the importantness of certain physical/material aspects of my life and I read spiritual and philosophical literature regularly. Am I deluding myself or indulging in whishfull thinking? Couldn't tell, allthough I'm quite sure I'm not entirely doing so. Does it make my life more bearable and raise it's quality? Does it raise my performance in dealing with the things I have to deal with? Does it actually help me see things more realistically *without* me starting to panic? Definitely!
On the premise of prescribing 'religion':
Prescribing 'religion' - i.e. spiritual teachings, liturgy and lifestyle is of course the first thing you should do with someone who is overly depressive without much reason to. I wouldn't use any "religion" or confession that is bloated with false claims and constraints, but I don't see how ready Stoic lectures and writings or regularly excercising some shinto or new age ritual or meditating could to any harm. In fact, I'd say precisely helping you to handle everyday life would be the actually true function of religion.
Every human being needs one of four things, that can also be intermixed: Family/Clan, Art, Religion/Spirituality, or regular encounters with untouched nature. If those aren't there he/she becomes mentally ill, depressive or takes drugs as an unhealthy fifth substitute.
If you life is in a rut and you have no friends, no time or resources for praticing art and your surroundings are unnatural and mainly functional, religion is indeed the thing you should turn to. Albeit not neccesarly any big brand of religion, that could be counter-productive.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Duh, it is well known that belief in one's doctor (aka the placebo effect) affects the outcome positively. Whether it's because the patient thinks his doctor is a god, or that god is himself a doctor would be an interesting research question.
"that's fine because no one will come and do a jihadist on you because you don't believe."
They will, though, if you're an "abomination unto the lord" in the Deep South USA.
They will if you're not a believer in the African continent.
Yes, that's right: the same sort of barbaric crap that YOU complain about in the Middle East with Islam happens in the Afrcan sub-continent with Christianity.
It's easier to be tolerant when you have enough to go round. When there isn't, then the herd needs thinning and you need a "reason" to think those people don't deserve anything.
If believing 2+2=4 scares you, you're neurotic.
If believing 2+2=5 comforts you, you're psychotic
When dealing with people around us, our emotional expressions guide the outcomes as we try to fit each other's needs. Where that doesn't work we need a "hunker down and deal with the situation" strategy. In those situations, it is sometimes only by feeling that our emotional expressions do not help anymore but simply make us suffer that changes our strategy to one that feels successful so that the depression ends.
I'm sorry, my inner snarky atheist is about to chime in. Please ignore the rest of my comment if you're not in the mood.
Ahem:
That's because the distance between mentally ill and religious is shorter than the distance between mentally ill and sane; they don't have to go the extra distance.
Because they are stupid. You can't get too depressed when you're stupid.
Anybody find this ... depressing?
The real issue is that those who believe in a God that watches over them also tend to feel that their lives are being guided, and they PREFER to feel that someone is guiding/controlling/watching over them. Now, a big part of depression comes from feeling powerless about your situation in life, so from that point of view, feeling like SOMETHING is looking out for you is a positive thing, no matter what or who it may be. The solution to treating depression then, is to provide a system(can be peer based, not government) where people who are depressed have others who may be able to help them, or watch out for them to give support. What has happened with modern society is that there is a notable lack of community in most places, and that lack of community leads to depression, and a feeling of isolation. Picture if you had no friends living near you, and the only thing you do is go to a bar and drink by yourself, where you see others who have connections or are making connections. Do that for years, and depression is sure to set in. Neighbors would help, but if society makes it so people are not interested in being connected to your neighbors, that leads to depression.
I am interested in exactly what you mean. Deeper how?
If the good doctor gives the patient a drug that helps forget about bleak reality, that certainly helps. An alternative would be to better prepare the person to deal with reality, organize, self improve, meditate.
Unfortunately, the current reality for majority od the people, middle clas included, is such that all of self improvement efforts may be futile, and the only solution to sanity is to escape, one way or another. Religion is (and always has been) the least harmless, and the cheapest, so this is why governments like it.
Religion doesn't factor into preventing depression in the first place, but only helps one get better? God is a constant in all of this. Since these people believed in God before, after and during their depression then one is already getting a regular "dosage" of God? Belief in God did not change before or after treatment.
I smell a rat. A rat that says, "oh well, it is not just the presence of God alone but God plus"
drugs
psychiatry
To whit, religion only works because you are also taking anti-depressants, taking group therapy or paying lots of money to a quack.
Religion and drugs. Surprise, surprise surprise.
This sounds like the perfect premise for a Phillip K. Dick sci-fi book: take the conclusion of this article and have a book plot where preacher starts disseminating drugs as part of church service. "Scientific studies show that religion works best when coupled with anti-depressant drugs! Here, have a Xanax!"
Sad part is that this may actually come to pass.
...correlated with a self-perceived sense of psychological well-being
People who are stupidly credulous respond better to authoritative counselling.
Clearly, they need to test against a placebo. Or is religious belief already the placebo?
I guess this study really does prove that religion is the opiate of the masses.
We are all going to die. We will be put into the ground where worms will eat us. End of story. Can't handle that? We'll tell you a story about a wonderful place where everyone goes.
BTW, remember that farm your parents sent the family dog to when it go old?
Have gnu, will travel.
Evolution would select for people who are less susceptible to the negative effects of an illness. If people who believe in God get better results, they would be more likely to pass on their genes (including the ones that make belief in the unknowable possible, I have heard it called the God Gene) and their offspring would carry that trait.
Full disclosure, I'm a believer. I am also a scientist. I know that there is no rational basis for my belief. I know that the existence of God can not be scientifically or objectively proven but I believe anyway. The subjective experiences of my life have led me to my worldview.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
There are too many potential confounders here to count. For example, thiests are probably more prone to suggestion bias, which is a MAJOR issue in psychiatry. The impressive-looking guy with a fancy degree gave me an antidepressant and a pep talk about how effective antidepressants are, so I guess I must be feeling better.
The linked abstract indicates that there was NO PLACEBO GROUP. They missed an opportunity there, because the real question of interest is whether religious belief affects placebo response.
I've noticed a general tendency in psychiatry for people to publish warm-and-fuzzy papers about how religion or spirituality leads to "better outcomes". No one ever talks about the potential harms of religion. I've got some recovering-Catholic patients they need to meet.
Most researchers are heavily invested in their research topic. Academics are BIASED; this is well-known. However they're supposed to have high standards of integrity and peer review.
The full article is behind a paywall, but there's nothing in the abstract that makes me think the study was double-blind. It might not even be single-blind. So it's anecdotes with charts and statistics, and not rigorous.
Thanks Emperor Palpatine!
.... Ah have SEEEN THE LIGHT!!!!!!
(does flip-flops all the way down the aisle)
It doesnt surprise me that people who think someone will fix this mess of life we all power through is more likely to be fixed by someone else who is fixing this mess of life. :) but on a serious note, belief in god often comes with the baggage of ignorance. sure there are religious scientists, etc. but the pure raw skepticism isnt there. ignorance really is bliss. oh who cares about global warming, god will fix it. aids? just a cure god made for homosexuality. earthquakes? boobs are too visible. its a solution for that problem. etc, etc, etc. the sad reality is that kids die all the time from tsunamis, malaria, etc. only science can fix any of these things, and some things cannot be fixed in our wildest dreams. its pretty depressing. even if we make it through the next few billion years we will die when our sun swells up. and if we move to a different star, eventually (by the looks of it) we are hooped anyway. the cold death is impending
Theistic believe correlates with lower IQ and Conservatism.
Depression also correlates with high IQ
What could this mean.....
Believers are certainly well represented on death row.
Does the study say anything about believers in Zeus? How is their mental health?
We all have two hemispheres. Most people keep their consciousness focused on one of them, just like you.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Apparently you don't know how science works do you? Every scientist has an area of study. You wouldn't get very far if you chose random subjects everytime now would you? Don't you understand how science and pyramids are built?
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Does this mean that religion is a placebo?
If they've already got a stupid mental condition, of course you're going to have a better outcome, because you'll have something you can actually treat them for.
Such a system of belief allows for the Placebo Effect to be fully engaged, something which is not a certainty in other cases.
And now we give this report a big 'ol DUH for effort.
My wife is one of 7 bros and 5 sisters. Two of each became depressive. One sister, after a 4t child, which was, we believe due to hormonal change. The two guys just became that way as they entered the thirties. But when you a) insisted they do moderate exercise (walking, jogging), and they took up a hobby intensely, (One took to religion, the other to paiinting, their depression diminished so where it passed or disappeared.
We could not get the guys to do anything like that, and they essentially took a very long time to get better.
At the time, they used to give lithium, and valium, during the peak. Sadly the drugs damaged kidneys and in one case caused diabetes. One brother-in-law died before he was 40, from the effects of lithium poisoning..
Yes, giving the person a valuable recognition (electrician, businessman, painter, mother), in what they wanted to do, re-inforces the postive feelings and allows that person to avoid medication.
Exercise is best medicine.
But, again, hardly late-breaking. Read Jung.
I am in a state of realist depression right now.
Please prescribe a religion who's sacraments involve the performance of oral sex by extremely hot chicks.
Thanks.
-- 29A the number of the Beast
"New study shows that believing you have a purpose helps you to believe you have a purpose."
Belief in God translates to better outcomes, but having a living faith in a living God translates into a better life, in every area. That's why Jesus said “Come to me all you who are weary and heavily burdened, and I will give you rest for you souls. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light." That's the way to go through life.
Denial, according psychoanalytic theory, is a defense mechanism. It defends the ego, which can be a good thing, mediating a reality that would be otherwise crushing the ego which is without strength to defend itself. It's all academic because the 'believer' really had the resources to defend their ego all along. Doesn't mean there is a god. It means they are better at denial as a coping skill.
I am an engineer and a family doc and an admitted believer, sort of, now I don't know if I believe in Gitchcy Manitou or Homer, I am starting to swing to the Higgs Bosin or what ever, but I do know this! We all know we don't know it all. The funny thing throughout the thread to me anyway, was the massive response! Not trying to convert anyone but darn right if some one has a piece of driftwood to hang on to in a shipwreck it helps and it sure make my job easier!
As Willy the shake said "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much"
Tj
The results of this research were obvious. Believing in god is necessary to be cured from the mental disorder commonly known as religion.
Surely that correlation only exists because belief in a god is a sign you need mental health treatment.
I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it
Higher Power doesn't always mean anthropomorphic paternalistic personified deity. It may just mean that there is reality in the Universe greater than oneself, the opposite of Solipsism. If one is consumed with experience originating in one's own consciousness, in a self-centered way, and one feels hopeless about the outcome than it might be hard to hold out hope against depression, whereas if one sees the pain as something to embrace, that will pass, that has external causes, possibly, and can find a solution that involves new experience, than certaintly the prognosis will be better.
I knew someone I wold characterize as a megalomainic, who had bouts of suicidal depression. This person believed in too much personal power and in not trusting the outside world to either disprove the need to control it or other solutions than to fight everything. The person really didn't trust in any kind of higher order.
Believing I was he king of the fucking world would be great for my mental health, too. Wouldn't make a speck of fucking difference to reality, however.
If you do **believe** in God, all the fanatics and pariahs who believe in churchs, schizophrenics, will have LESS excuses to harm people with food and other techniques. If you do not belong to church.... they ll have free reign and can claim religiousness. Those studies are made DISREGARDING the SCHIZOPHRENIA of people around others. MIND IT: they will only stop hearing voices, MAYBE, once they are the only Adams on Earth.... and probably it already happened. It is now eight years of explicit analysis of the issue, and some companies (Hindi, Mexican Indians, Africans), have already managed despite all my care to leave me with permanent physical scars from their food tricks. The same is true for many researches I ve seen lately, if you ACK the effects of schizophrenia (invisible mass information synchronization from hidden schizophrenic sources), conclusions fall in naught. _I_ should NOT have hands looking older than my 70 years old mother, at my age, but I did drink coffee in Dun kin Do nuts and McDonalds. Danilo J Bonsignore
Maybe these people are having such better outcomes from their mental health treatment not BECAUSE they believe in God, but because, in receiving mental health treatment, they are, for the first time, being provided a new way to think about their life problems in a way that is healthier than the religious perspective which, although works for some people, clearly was not working for these depressed individuals.
So, in contrast to the unreligious people whose worldview was probably already based on the sort of ideas provided by therapy, it wouldn't have been such a radical shift in perspective, thus, not as helpful in the short term.
"...belief in a higher power do significantly better in short-term psychiatric treatment than those without." Yes, it's very reassuring that the big man in the sky is looking after you, and when things don't go to your plan, well that's part of his plan, so be cool! Oh, and I get to see my loved one's when I die. Awesomeness! This would make anyone happier. "This raises interesting questions. Does this support the concept of depressive realism?" Of course there's depressive realism, it's depressing to know that this life is all that is, and those that do bad, like wipe out a bunch of wealth from people's pensions - they're not going to punished in an afterlife. Really depressing! "If the association is found to be causal, would it be ethical for a psychiatrist to prescribe religion?" I'm sure there's a causal association, but I want to truth, so of course it would be unethical to prescribe bogus religion. In some sense, psychology already tries to find a more meaningful story for the patient, a better self view, and it might be true, but pushing them to a religion is wrong - religion is judgmental, arrogant, and what's worse is that grown ups shouldn't believe in mystical beings. Face the hard truth, and live the best life you can, because you only have one.
check your calendar, 2013 is based approximately on when historians think Jesus was born.
go to a biblical archaeology trip in bible land.
check out how history followed and is following daniel and revelation.
i used to be an atheist for some time, because i asked God for something but he didn't grant it, therefore i emotioned that he didn't exist.
it is like emailing bill gates and he doesn't reply, therefore bill gates doesn't exist.
want to reconsider? check out some amazing facts.
First, gotta love Slate -- trying to use an oh-so-pitiful bit of manipulation to get us to post our REAL NAMES-- or be called Anonymous Coward. Actually, I think Anonymous Coward has a nice ring to it. It kind of dignifies the act of craven weakness and gives it gravitas. It's like calling Slate an actual magazine. Now, on to God: Harvard used to have a decent reputation, right? Guess maybe I’ll have to consider Hogwarts now—are they accredited? Many questions here: Wonder which God works best? Or which one of the 3 Abrahamic religions are we talking about? Are eastern religions excluded? The reason I’m asking is that the Old Testament God of Judeo Christian belief was a real prick, PMS-ing about, creating floods, practicing infanticide. The son, Jesus, was cool though, according to them. Decent bloke. But, I don’t think I’ll be asking for His help anytime soon. Besides, God’s got his hands full, right? Trying to decide which sports team to support or handling prayers from the sick and dying—or granting children special favor. Wait—that’s Santa Clause. Well, we’ve come full circle; they’re all just all forms of magical thinking, innocuous enough I guess. —I mean, except for the crusades and all. But that's like the Iraq war--everyone's sort of forgotten about it, except for the Iraqis. Seriously, any 2nd year psych student or pot head knows religion fires up the same pleasure center of the brain as drugs. But I can already hear the nut balls out there, the eschatology freaks, the end-timers, the .... never mind. Just pray your asses off. I guess it's good for you.
Thank God I’m an atheist.
Better outcomes ? How about calling a spade a spade...the observer or medic is in fact observing what he wants to see...religion is an aberration and further, there is utterly no evidence of any "cure" for depression through their quackery without the use of psychotropic anti depressants which alter the serotonin levels to sometimes but infrequently helps those affected. If religion helps than the cure is perhaps worth than the disease. I suggest that a depressed person is merely responding to the fact that they no longer have the illusions of an afterlife, hell, absolute good or a y of the childish nonsense that
religions foist on people. one is a lot happier facing the beauty and awe of the universe without pap...Get used to it and revel instead on one's passage through our organism's temporary part of it and know that it will just end and that is that...big deal...Knowing we are but a micro wisp of energy in a near infinity of possible outcomes is fine by me and ought to be for a sane person. To live in illusion with Gods and demons, rules from a ghost idol in the sky...hah hah...now that is truly insane. The conclusions by these shrinks is about as useful as magic potions..
Religion is the opiate of the people. It's like being on drugs without the drugs. They really needed to do a study about this?
Being delusional makes you less depressed. Makes sense.
Most articles on Slashdot: 90-200 comments
Article on Slashdot that mentions God: Over 800 comments
There is NO positive or negative scientific proof for a creator, other than LACK of measurable facts. But MANY or MOST humans need to HAVE a creator to deal with reality in life, it seems. Personally I am an agnostic (don't know the answers and don't claim to know) due to two things. First NONE of the religious books make any sense to me, other than as historical documentation of how tribes did government in the bronze age. Secondly, the 'white light' and out-of-body and other experiences of people who died on the operating table and came back are really intriguing. I am a 'dilettante scientist' who works in technology - not good enough at the higher maths to become a good physicist, but have the 'scientific viewpoint'. Facts are observed, theories are formed to explain facts or relationships between them, etc. This is almost mutually exclusive with 'blind faith' that 'the bible is true' or the many other controls that exist in ALL religions I have looked into when younger. So ORGANIZED religion is not for me, but I STILL appreciate the mountains, trees, sky, stars, etc and am in awe of the universe. I just don't know who's cranking it and what happens if they stop !
Using religion to "cure" depression is just substituting one neuroses for another.
This could only possibly be true because belief in God is not properly being diagnosed as dementia.
Conduct this study on the religious again in 10-15 years when the world is majority atheist (as the trend seems to be going in that direction) and we will see if the tables have turned. I'm betting they will.
The contention here is that patients have more success when they determine what is "best" on a spiritual basis rather than a material one.
And it does matter what it is. A belief in big-foot is irrelevant to most individual's experience, however a belief in The Maker of Physical Existence who wants good things for people over the short span of their existence might be.
Somehow, a belief in a sympathetic powerful Supreme Being might be a little more compelling than a belief that the world and the individual's life is nothing more than a cosmic accident
...Or the dietary and sexual proscriptions and general calls to psychotic craziness that most sensible believers ignore.
It's popular because it's very comforting to believe that your 4-year-old daughter died for a reason. That there was some purpose to it, it was part of a grand ineffable scheme. That she lives on in a nicer place now, and one day you'll get to see her again.
It's comforting to know that someone is watching over you and loves you unconditionally when it seems no one else does.
It's comforting to know that even when you die, it won't be over.
Of course, this doesn't make religion any less untrue. But then again, the placebo effect in medicine points out the blind faith in a non-existant cure works wonders on over 20% of people.
Believe in My version of God or die. Better mental health? Kiss my ass.
So... the article mentions a "belief in god" and then conflates it with a "belief in a higher power". Well? Which is it?
See, this is why these kinds of studies are so full of epic fail: they are using terms that are so ill-defined and could really mean anything.
When a word could mean anything it ends up meaning nothing. That's exactly what we have here, unsurprisingly.
"A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
I'd like to see the results of a similar study using subjects that believe in the tooth fairy, or Santa Claus. Might the health benefits be the same?