Condensation On Your Beer != Good

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Condensation On Your Beer != Good

Posted by timothy on Thursday May 2, 2013 @01:43AM from the except-in-england dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Turns out that condensation on your favorite chilled beverage is a bad thing for keeping it cold. Two researchers conducted an experiment in their bathroom proving that condensation can raise the temperature of your beer by nine degrees!"

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wait, will wiping off help? by therealkevinkretz · 2013-05-02 01:44 · Score: 5, Interesting

By the time there's any condensate to wipe off the glass, hasn't the damage (i.e. heat from condensation) already been done? That's what warms the glass and its contents, not the water remaining on the side. So wiping it off won't prevent the warming.
1. Re: wait, will wiping off help? by pchasco · 2013-05-02 01:49 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  For the most part, but I expect the droplets of water increase the surface area of your cold beer container, thereby accelerating the warming process.
2. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by XiaoMing · 2013-05-02 01:50 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  By the time there's any condensate to wipe off the glass, hasn't the damage (i.e. heat from condensation) already been done? That's what warms the glass and its contents, not the water remaining on the side. So wiping it off won't prevent the warming.
  What you said is correct: wiping will not help, as the condensation process is what causes the heating. The most telling bit comes from TFA:
  
  “Probably the most important thing a beer koozie does is not simply insulate the can, but keep condensation from forming on the outside of it,” said Dale Durran, a UW professor of atmospheric sciences.
  So either we start seeing stein-shaped koozies at our local dive bar... or nothing will really change from this "finding".
3. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by TheRealMindChild · 2013-05-02 01:57 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  By the time there's any condensation, it should have been drank already!
  
  --
  
  "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
4. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by Curunir_wolf · 2013-05-02 02:06 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  They're drinking beer out of a can?? Well I guess that makes since. You have to keep the standard mainstream American beer very cold so you can't taste it.
  
  --
  "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
  --- Jerry Garcia
5. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by dreamchaser · 2013-05-02 02:14 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Most beer shouldn't be ice cold to begin with. Good beer at least. I agree with your sentiments about the mass market fizzy piss they call beer though.
6. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by CanadianRealist · 2013-05-02 02:21 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  You're right. Water has a high heat of vaporization. The amount of energy required to vaporize a given amount of water is close to 5 times the amount of energy that would be required to heat that same amount of water from 0 C to 100 C.
  So think of it as being a bit like taking the amount of water in the condensate, heating that to 500 C* and adding it to your beer. (* heating to that temperature without vaporizing)
7. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by Quirkz · 2013-05-02 02:24 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Your reflexive disdain is outdated. Lots of craft brewers are going to cans, at least here in Colorado. Much easier to take camping, lighter, probably cheaper and just as easy to recycle. Also, unlike even brown glass, and much better than pale glass, a can won't let *any* light through, so the beer is less likely to skunk.
  
  --
  The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
8. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by jones_supa · 2013-05-02 02:30 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  This is true. You will taste much more of the beer when you drink it slightly warmer. Also the reason why the supermarket bulk beer contains phrases such as "drink ice cold!!" -- you can't taste how crappy it is.
9. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by Tx · 2013-05-02 03:01 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Every country has its fair share of fizzy piss lager, but credit where credit is due, I was just reading about how American craft beers have inspired British brewers in recent times, so I think the days of scoffing at US beer should be over.
  
  --
  Oh no... it's the future.
10. Re: wait, will wiping off help? by Ant2 · 2013-05-02 03:02 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  In the time it has taken you guys to debate this, I drank three beers. Fast enough that there was no time for condensation to take place.
  But carry on with your theories. I salute you.
11. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by Trepidity · 2013-05-02 03:12 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  American craft beers are also quite influential in Scandinavia, among both beer drinkers and as an influence on the local brewing scene. Brooklyn Brewery is popular enough that they're opening a brewery in Stockholm to fill local demand without having to ship the beer.
  
  --
  10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
12. Re: wait, will wiping off help? by AlphaWolf_HK · 2013-05-02 03:18 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Actually what I think is happening is probably the opposite of evaporative cooling. When you sweat for example, it makes you cold because as the water molecules are evaporating into a gas, it takes heat energy with it.
  Now condensation on the other hand results in the opposite. The heat from the water molecule is then put into the system (i.e. the glass of beer) so the water molecule sticks to it because it no longer has the energy it needed to remain in its gas form.
  In which case, wiping the condensation off doesn't reduce the temperature. In fact, it might actually be counterproductive because that water is no longer there to evaporate again, resulting in the cooling effect.
  
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13. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by slim · 2013-05-02 03:18 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Yes, speaking as a British beer snob who's travelled the US coast-to-coast, there are astonishingly good craft beers in shops throughout the US. They tend towards the very hoppy pale ale, which I absolutely love, and they have inspired more of that kind of beer in the UK.
  However, Bud Lite, PBR etc. are definitely blander than any of the mainstream British/European lagers served in British pubs.
14. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-02 05:42 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Yes, speaking as a British beer snob who's travelled the US coast-to-coast, there are astonishingly good craft beers in shops throughout the US.
  Speaking as a science snob, the mass market American beers are some of the most impressive feats of industrial and chemical engineering today. When you talk to a craft brewer and ask them what makes their beer special, they'll tell about the effort, the love, and the hops. If you filter out the hippie bullshit, and if they have a clue, they'll patiently explain about their hops and the peculiarities of the soil it comes from. They'll also talk about their water. Next, go visit a distillery in the Scottish Highlands, and ask them what makes their product different from the distillery on the next hill. They will talk about their water. Every distiller will go on and on about the local water supply, and how there is no place else in the world where one could replicate that exact flavor.
  Now visit a macrobrewery. It's like stepping from a tiny server closet to a Google data center...total nerd spooge. These guys do serious engineering. They bottle all over the in the world, using water from hundreds of different hills, using hops from thousands of farms, and can make their product taste exactly the same, every time. You can fly all over the world, order one of these "crap lagers", and get precisely what you asked for every single time. These companies manage that a billion times per day. If that doesn't impress the holy fuck out of you, then engineering probably isn't for you.
  Also, a question for the beer snobs out there: if the difference between a crap beer and a good beer is as great as you claim, why don't I see quality beers selling for $100+ at restaurants and liquor stores. It's easy to find places stocking $5 wine and $500 wine, $5 whiskey and $500 whiskey. Where's the all the good beer that could actually command a real premium price? Why does the free market seem to think premium beer is only worth the same markup as premium toilet paper? Is beer snobbery really just more about the snobbery than the beer?
15. Re: wait, will wiping off help? by msauve · 2013-05-02 06:01 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Even easier. If you don't drink BMC (Bud/Miller/Coors), there's no need to keep it so damn cold to kill the taste.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
16. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by nedlohs · 2013-05-02 06:11 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Because they aren't as expensive to make and reasonably easily replicated by someone else who will sell it cheaper?
  Take your $500 bottle of scotch. It's probably aged for 25 or 30 years. So if I decided to make a competitor it would take me 25 years from when I started to bring it to market. And on every one of those 25 years I'd have to decide "I won't sell it all this year and make some money to pay the bills, I'll instead age it some more".
  Though I suspect the real answer is that wine and whiskey snobbery are off the charts. A $500 bottle of wine is quite possibly nicer than a $25 bottle of wine - it's not $475 nicer though. Wine just happens to be a luxury good that people use to show off wealth and hence the wealthy will spend a lot of money on it just so that everyone knows they have a lot of money. Beer doesn't have that status and hence people won't pay such ridiculous sums for it.
  That doesn't mean that "premium" beer isn't much better than "non-premium" beer. In fact it's a great thing for people who happen to like "premium" beers.
17. Re: wait, will wiping off help? by fahrbot-bot · 2013-05-02 07:38 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  In the time it has taken you guys to debate this, I drank three beers. Fast enough that there was no time for condensation to take place. But carry on with your theories. I salute you.
  They debated for 20 minutes and you posted at 11 AM on a Thursday.
  Google: +rehab +<your zipcode>
  
  --
  It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
18. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by MrHanky · 2013-05-02 08:01 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Expensive wine takes ages to age, and it's rare. It's not necessarily fantastic compared to more reasonably priced wine. Same with whisky. Beer? Yeah, I suppose you could hand-select your grains and hops, and use your private limited supply well water ... but, as you say, water chemistry for brewing is pretty straight forward science (and common knowledge even among homebrewers, so I suppose there's nerd spooge in your average craft beer as well), so it's not like you can't get identical but more consistent results with reverse osmosis and a handful of mineral salts.
  The reason why beer snobs dislike your Bud is because it doesn't taste much like all. It's designed primarily to be inoffensive. You might as well ask why music snobs prefer Arnold Schönberg to Justin Timberlake, when the latter has had contributions from market research and advanced statistics to make music that's perfectly acceptable to a much larger share of the market.
  Of course, you're also full of shit when talking about craft brewers. Hardly any of them know anything about the soil their hops come from (they source them from the same farms that grow for the macros), and if you hear much hippie bullshit, you're most likely talking to their PR guy. Brewing is geeky stuff, the big guys just have bigger toys.
19. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by Quirkz · 2013-05-02 08:30 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  The can may spoil it for you, but "skunk" is actually a technical term. It's a chemical process where some of the hop chemicals react with sunlight and convert into something else which literally provides a slightly skunky smell. If you want a good reference, Corona is a classic case of a heavily skunked beer. (I think that's why a lot of people drink it with the lime, to cover up the smell.) It's also part of the Mexican lager standard style - in their case they expose the beer to a burst of ultraviolet light during production specifically to create the effect, and can get away with clear bottles because additional skunking won't make much difference.
  Miller, on the other hand, created a variation of the hop chemical which provides bitterness but doesn't react to light. That's how they can get away with clear bottles for one of their lines of beer - it won't skunk no matter what.
  
  --
  The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
20. Re:wait, will wiping off help? by NoMaster · 2013-05-02 09:28 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  And because also, if you distill the water first, you pretty much have pure hydrogen dioxide
  
  Ummm, I'd think very carefully about drinking that...
  
  --
  What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
Just in time for cinco de mayo by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-02 01:45 · Score: 5, Interesting

Now how about an experiment about the optimal water quantity for a wet t-shirt contest? Something about capillary action certainly has to be discovered...
1. Re:Just in time for cinco de mayo by Curunir_wolf · 2013-05-02 02:09 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Now how about an experiment about the optimal water quantity for a wet t-shirt contest? Something about capillary action certainly has to be discovered...
  I'd rather be involved in the next 15-year study to confirm the latest findings on saggy breasts.
  
  --
  "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
  --- Jerry Garcia
Localized Warming! by paysonwelch · 2013-05-02 01:48 · Score: 5, Funny

Save the ales!
1. Re:Localized Warming! by dkleinsc · 2013-05-02 03:29 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I tried to start that movement, but soon everyone was at lagerheads.
  
  --
  I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
the bathroom is where you return your rented beer by xxxJonBoyxxx · 2013-05-02 01:49 · Score: 5, Funny

>> Two researchers conducted an experiment in their bathroom
A lot of my stories that end with "and then we were both grounded for a month" start that way too.
Fundamental thermodynamics by gentryx · 2013-05-02 01:51 · Score: 5, Funny

Phase transition from gaseous to liquid dissipates thermal energy. News at 18:00.

--
Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
1. Re:Fundamental thermodynamics by invid · 2013-05-02 01:55 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  High school physics is now a surprise to people. I am sad.
  
  --
  The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
Nine degrees scared me. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-02 01:52 · Score: 4, Informative

Note to international readers: That is 9 degrees Fahrenheit. It's not as bad news for the summer days as it looks!
All this assumes super cold beer is desirable by goombah99 · 2013-05-02 01:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

The condensation pays a latent heat penalty, warming the beer when the beer is super cold. But conversely the evaporation pays back the latent heat penalty at some higher temperature. Where the equilibrium point is I'm not sure.
But there is an easy solution to this problem: mist the outside of your beer glass with cold water. This will tie up all the condensation nucleation sites without paying the latent heat penalty.

--
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
1. Re:All this assumes super cold beer is desirable by The+Mighty+Buzzard · 2013-05-02 02:13 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Or you could, you know, just drink it before it's old enough to buy its own beer.
  
  --
  Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
2. Re:All this assumes super cold beer is desirable by quist · 2013-05-02 02:53 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  the equilibrium point will be roughly at the dew_pt or wet_bulb_temp of the ambient environment. The wet_bulb_temp will approach ambient temp as the % humidity rises, hence, the quick-warming pitchers in the average crowded college watering hole.
Beer that needs chilling is, uh, well... by Wapiti-eater · 2013-05-02 01:57 · Score: 5, Informative

You chill beverage to hide the unpleasant flavors. Good beer is best served just at or slightly below room temp. Keep it in a cool, dark place - it's ready when you are. Colonials ::sigh::

--
Senior NCO in the fight against entropy. I've seen things, man. Things no one should have to see.....
1. Re:Beer that needs chilling is, uh, well... by DougOtto · 2013-05-02 02:04 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  That advice works fine in England where room temperature is 55F but no so much in the desert where I live.
  
  --
  Solving Unix problems since 1989...
2. Re:Beer that needs chilling is, uh, well... by h4rr4r · 2013-05-02 02:17 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  1. Stella is overpriced crap, for the same money you could buy good beer.
  2. No one said warm, celler temp is what you want.
3. Re:Beer that needs chilling is, uh, well... by Cloud+K · 2013-05-02 02:42 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Yep, keep it in a cold dark place. England!
What do you call insulated beverage sleeves? by Rob+the+Bold · 2013-05-02 02:07 · Score: 4, Funny

While on a float trip in Arkansas many years ago, a friend in a bikini offered me a titty. Shock turned to disappointment when I learned that in parts of the South Central US, those foam beverage sleeves are known as "Tiddies" for the Texas-based manufacturer of such foam-rubber products. But my beer did stay colder longer, so it wasn't a total loss.

--
I am not a crackpot.
come on slashdot seriously by nimbius · 2013-05-02 02:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

this is simple highschool physics. the real problem we need to research and investigate is why do beer bottles unexpectedly and inappropriately become empty.
I have, as a scientist, conducted extensive research myself and have to date been unable to conclude a definitive cause. I implore slashdotters, if you have any experience in this phenomenon or have experienced it personally, please adhere to your diligence as scientists and provide additional research data. bottles, glasses and even steins will exhibit this behavior, so please consider this in your testing protocol.

--
Good people go to bed earlier.
Re:As a Belgian by h4rr4r · 2013-05-02 02:15 · Score: 3, Insightful

The reason for this is very simple.
The brewer does not pay for the cooling, the bar or customer does. This means they can continue to use cracked rice, cracked corn, the lowest grade of barley known to man and hops extract. When you are making a billion gallons of brew you can make a lot of profit by using animal feed instead of proper ingredients.
Then you simply advertise the hell out of serving this garbage as cold as possible, which covers up the taste.
Re:As I'm a teetotaler... by wonkey_monkey · 2013-05-02 02:27 · Score: 4, Funny

And yet you felt compelled to post. What's that about?
Stuff that doesn't interest me happens all the time. If I had the same compunction to comment on all of them I'd never get anything done.
Or is this another case of Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own a Television?

--
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Re:As a Belgian by Rob+the+Bold · 2013-05-02 02:46 · Score: 3, Insightful

Why not spending a couple of extra cents on quality ingredients to make a quality beer instead of blowing money on cooling?
Because that wouldn't be the American Megacorporate Way. Why spend more on product quality, when you could spend half as much on ubiquitous ad campaigns to redefine the country's understanding of what "beer" even is?
WRT beer, what is this American Megacorporation to which you refer? AB InBev? Grupo Modello? SABMiller? Molson Coors? (I guess that last one's half-American, but not really "mega" compared to the first two.)

--
I am not a crackpot.
Only with American beer by fynfuqbg · 2013-05-02 02:50 · Score: 5, Funny

condensation can raise the temperature of your beer by nine degrees!"
This happens only with American beer, in the rest of the world the temperature raises only by five degrees