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Google Formally Puts Palestine On Virtual Map

hypnosec writes "Google has indirectly walked right into one of the Middle East's most obstinate conflicts by labeling Palestine as an independent nation — wiping off the term 'Palestinian Territories' and replacing it with 'Palestine' in its localized search page. Google's move is more or less in line with the UN's October decision to name Palestine as a non-member observer state. The status given to Palestine will allow the state to join UN debates as well as global bodies such as the International Criminal Court, in theory at least. Up until May 1, anyone visiting http://www.google.ps were shown the phrase Palestinian Territories. This change is definitely not a huge one but, it has attracted criticism from politicians in Israel."

205 of 338 comments (clear)

  1. USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Gothmolly · · Score: 1, Funny

    We all have our roles to play I suppose.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by femtobyte · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, the US funnels far more overt support and resources to its bellicose little buddies. I don't see North Korea shifting the DMZ southward every year, leveling South Korean cities so North Korean settlers can move onto the land. China doesn't throw an international diplomatic hissy-fit at the mere suggestion that South Korea should be allowed to have its own autonomous government, much less one armed and hostile to the expansion of North Korean power.

    2. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Yakasha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, the US funnels far more overt support and resources to its bellicose little buddies. I don't see North Korea shifting the DMZ southward every year, leveling South Korean cities so North Korean settlers can move onto the land. China doesn't throw an international diplomatic hissy-fit at the mere suggestion that South Korea should be allowed to have its own autonomous government, much less one armed and hostile to the expansion of North Korean power.

      I don't see the South electing a government with the stated goal of expelling or murdering every resident of the North, flatly stating that any and all negotiations are purely strategic moves to delay fighting when deemed necessary, that the commonly accepted "two state solution" will never be allowed to happen, or refusing to acknowledge the historical incidents predating the formation of their Northern neighbor and otherwise implicitly believing that no Northern citizen has a right to live.

      So I guess neither of us like the analogy.

    3. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The hasbara trumpet bloweth, I see.

      Your propaganda would be amusing if people weren't fucking dying thanks to you and your ilk. Murdering scumbag. Coward.

    4. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nice try, but unconvincing. Israel is just as complicit in the situation as Palestine is.

    5. Re: USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And why would the Palestinians need Israel approval when Israel didn't need to ask permission to the Palestinians to exist?
      The whole "negotiated solution" is propaganda for Israel to keep the Palestinians stateless forever, and continue the colonization. The longer they wait, the larger their state will be.

    6. Re: USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      much less one armed and hostile to the expansion of North Korean power.

      So the proper attitude in your opinion is to welcome the DPRK's prison camps?

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    7. Re: USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by femtobyte · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Huh? Where'd that come from? I'm perfectly fine with China not trampling in to directly help North Korea wage hostilities against the South; I'm happy with South Korea being able to defend its border against aggression. Likewise, I'd be fine with Israel not receiving massive support from its sugar daddy to unilaterally steamroll over Palestine; I'd be fine with Palestine having a bit more firepower to fight back wherever Israel pushes its borders to steal more land/resources.

    8. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by TapeCutter · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, both sides want to kill each other, that's the problem in a nutshell.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    9. Re: USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by femtobyte · · Score: 2

      Hard to tell exactly what China's politburo will do (ever since Mao died, no one's been answering calls on my special red telephone line to Beijing), but I'm not so sure they'd really want NK expanding like that either. China doesn't want US military bases nestled right up against their border (so they're alright with maintaining NK as a big buffer region), but they aren't exactly thrilled about having a big mass of desperate starving poor people about to spill over the border either (China's not particularly short on population right now). Doubling the size of NK (while wiping out anything of value in South Korea) wouldn't particularly benefit China. In fact, if the US were to break off close relations with South Korea (let them develop as an independent non-aligned state, rather than a neo-colonial puppet for Western interests), I wouldn't be surprised if China hastened along the demise of NK, and let South Korea take over as a friendly ally/trading partner.

    10. Re: USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Clsid · · Score: 1

      Lol what? Maybe you should read more, even if it is Wikipedia:

      The British had notified the U.N. of their intent to terminate the mandate not later than 1 August 1948,[47][48] However, early in 1948, the United Kingdom announced its firm intention to end its mandate in Palestine on 14 May. In response, President Harry S. Truman made a statement on 25 March proposing UN trusteeship rather than partition, stating that "unfortunately, it has become clear that the partition plan cannot be carried out at this time by peaceful means... unless emergency action is taken, there will be no public authority in Palestine on that date capable of preserving law and order. Violence and bloodshed will descend upon the Holy Land. Large-scale fighting among the people of that country will be the inevitable result."[49]

      The Jewish Leadership, led by future Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, declared the establishment of a Jewish State in Eretz-Israel, to be known as the State of Israel,[50] on the afternoon of Friday, 14 May 1948 (5 Iyar 5708 (Hebrew calendar date).[51][52][53] On the same day, the Provisional Government of Israel asked the US Government for recognition, on the frontiers specified in the UN Plan for Partition.[54] The United States immediately replied, recognizing the provisional government as the de facto authority.[55] Israel was also quickly recognised by the Soviet Union[citation needed] and many other countries,[citation needed] but not by the surrounding Arab states.

      Over the next few days, approximately 700 Lebanese, 1,876 Syrian, 4,000 Iraqi, 2,800 Egyptian troops invaded Palestine.[56] Around 4,500 Transjordanian troops, commanded by 38 British officers, who had resigned their commissions in the British army only weeks earlier (commanded by General Glubb), invaded the Corpus separatum region encompassing Jerusalem and its environs (in response to the Haganah's Operation Kilshon[57]), as well as areas designated as part of the Arab state by the UN partition plan.

    11. Re: USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm legitimately curious, when was the last time Israel actually annexed new Palestinian territory? Sure, their still building in the settlements which is problematic, but that land was taken years ago. There are periodic rounds of 'incursions' to address security issues, but these aren't battles of conquest.

    12. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Right. When Arafat was given practically everything he asked for from Ehud Barak Arafat still balked from the deal. Bill Clinton blamed the failure of the Camp David agreement on Arafat alone. But of course that does not matter to you, facts be dammed.

    13. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Omestes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Jews have been living continuously in the region of Palestine for over 3000 years (the Arabs came later, and invaded around 1400 years ago).

      Not going to take sides here, since both sides are reprehensible, and deserve very little sympathy at this point. I take that back, the normal people in both Israel and Palestine deserve it, the bellicose asshats in their governments and outspoken religious authorities deserve none whatsoever. That said; your statement is a bit wonky. Yes, modern Arabs, and later Muslims, were there later than Jews, but this is a bit false, since the root ethnicities and cultures that spawned both were there longer than either. Further "we were there first" is about as idiotic as one can get. Should the Native American tribes be allowed to partition American cities, restrict their ability to food and medicine, and generally treat them all like terrorists, criminals, and subhumans by default? They were here first, after all. Actually Siberians and the Japanese should be allowed to, since their genetic stock is more closely related to the original settlers of North America than most people here now.

      No. Both people have to coexist, whether they like it or not. If they can't, I don't care, someone should come in and FORCE them to. And anyone who supports the hostilities of either faction should have as serious sanctions as someone supporting any other terrorist aggressor state, since they really don't hold a moral high ground on any issue anymore. They both are bad guys. No excuse changes this fact. Picking sides is nonsensical, its like arguing over who was less evil, Stalin or Mao.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    14. Re: USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by femtobyte · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Officially declared "we annex this territory"? Probably not since '73. But settlements, seizing water sources, tearing down olive orchards, building apartheid walls, changing the real situation on the ground: daily. I'm less concerned by "official" territorial boundaries (imaginary lines on a map), than the physical reality "on the ground." Imaginary lines on a map can be re-drawn at any time, and don't hurt anyone; but when people are expelled from their homes, lose access to vital resources, and are replaced by new "innocent civilian" settlers, the real harm is done (and far harder to justly reverse).

    15. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Uberbah · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't see the South electing a government with the stated goal of expelling or murdering every resident of the North, flatly stating that any and all negotiations are purely strategic moves to delay fighting when deemed necessary, that the commonly accepted "two state solution" will never be allowed to happen, or refusing to acknowledge the historical incidents predating the formation of their Northern neighbor and otherwise implicitly believing that no Northern citizen has a right to live.

      Yeah, I don't like the Likud Charter either:

      The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting. ...
      The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.

    16. Re: USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      What the heck are you talking about? Best Korea already owns the universe. Except for Greenland. So, obviously, the next step is for Robo-Rodman to conquer Greenland --- no matter what the Buddhist Illuminati try to pull. With the the Wal*Mart pod-people tied up supplying black helicopters to the Federal Reserve, the hyperintelligent Mars rovers won't stand a chance against the Lizard People of New Brunswick. Vote Ron Paul!

    17. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      I agree with your statements. Sorry if I was unclear. The grandparent was oblique so I was less oblique. Israel actions are much much more moral than those of the Islamist political class (who dominate the Palestinian people).

    18. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Mystakaphoros · · Score: 1

      Maybe next Google could put in something where every time someone searched for "Judea and Samaria" it could come up, "No results found. Did you mean the West Bank?"

    19. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      And upmodded to compensate. Oh well; contentious is more fun than boringly correct (get plenty enough of that already)...

    20. Re: USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      much less one armed and hostile to the expansion of North Korean power.

      So the proper attitude in your opinion is to welcome the DPRK's prison camps?

      You can probably understand why the Palestinians don't feel particularly 'welcomed' by the Israeli prison camps. The Gaza Strip is the worlds biggest ever concentration camp.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    21. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Well, minus the stifling poverty, ruthless (crazed) dictator, and the WW2-esque prison camps, sure, maybe?

    22. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by LordLimecat · · Score: 3, Funny

      Its still absurd to compare NKorea to basically anyone except North Korea, or historical regimes.

      Isnt Israel a democracy that DOESNT stick its people in prison camps?

    23. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Yeah well, the alternative would be peace, which would lay to waste the the economies of all the superpowers. Right now business is better than ever. Ms Hillary sold 60 bil last year, just to the Saudis. Let's not spoil a good thing, eh?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    24. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by omglolbah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, it doesnt stick "its" people in prison camp, only the people in the country that are undesirable.

      It is horribly ironic and sad that some of the views held by the most extreme israeli political players mirror so many of the fascists ideas of nazi germany...

    25. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by fustakrakich · · Score: 2
      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    26. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry asshat but the rules are in our times. Not some bullshit date thousands of years because it favours your personal desires today. Pretty blow that religious bullshit out of your ass before ever contemplating using it to kill people or justify theft of their property. It has always been bullshit and will always be bullshit. Whether it was missionaries to the Americas, Salem witch trials, the inquisition, the crusades, the Mughals in India etc. etc. etc. It has always been exactly the same bullshit, a handful of psychopaths at the top hiding behind religion to feed their own personal ego and lusts whilst driving on the ignorant religious masses to fight and die for them.

      Palestinian people legally owned most of the land in Israel. A bunch of Palestinian jews together with illegal immigrants initiated a terrorist war to steal those properties and expended the Israeli state from their. The US propped it up because the surrounding Arabic states where leaning towards the Soviet Union. You could bet if the US politicians at the time had known what a huge corrupt pain in the ass the Israeli government and the Mosad would become they would never have done so.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    27. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What prison camps are these? Maybe read this:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_prisoners_in_Israel
      and compare it to what Nazi Germany did. Tip, trying people in a court and sending them to prison for a week isnt the same thing.

      I get that Israel does some shady stuff, but its really important on an issue as touchy as this to try to be objective, and refrain from hyperbole. Neither side has been great about this, both sides have considerable grievances, but neither side is as bad as WW2 Germany or current North Korea.

      Perspective, rationality, guys.

    28. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Heh. Or "did you mean the ancestral home of the Canaanites?"

    29. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Palestinian people legally owned most of the land in Israel.

      Could you please point to the legal document that shows this? pretty please? you simply won't find it, it doesn't exist. The last unchallenged international resolution was the 1922 League of Nations decision that the *region* of Palestine should be split into a portion for Jews and a portion for Arabs. Originally the Arab portion was to be called Transjordan (later Jordan). The British administering the region created this. Then they reneged on their deal and decided to give *additional* land to the Arabs (at the expense of the territory originally planned for the Jews). The final borders were to be decided by negotiation. Then there were uprising and World War II which slowed things down. After World War II the UN decided that Israel could be formed (and recognized it) and an Arab state could be formed (but the Arabs refused, they wanted everything and thought they could commit genocide to achieve this).

      I'm afraid it appears it is you spouting bullshit because you are ignorant of even the basic historical facts of the region. Please do your homework next time - then you might have a chance of forming a historically correct conclusion. Pretty please.

    30. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      They are called property titles. Did they exist abso-fucking-lutely and there is not place on this planet that anyone can say they own their own home and prevent someone from simply moving in and taking over with out some form of property. So ESAD with your pathetic lies and propaganda and somehow trying to twist religious or nationalistic 'ownership' as taking precedence of straight up normal recognised personal property ownership. In point of fact the cheating Israeli government passed laws to seize unoccupied legally titled houses (they had to pass laws because yes there were legal records of title of ownership) those properties being unoccupied because they were driven from their homes and the country and forbidden from returning. Really you lying deceiving propagandist why else where those racist and prejudiced laws passed about seizure of unoccupied properties unless there was an outstanding recording title of ownership.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    31. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      You know, I honestly don't care Jew from Gentile, and 'right' and 'wrong' obviously don't mean crap. The guy with the biggest gun wins, and everybody else is a bunch of ankle biters.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    32. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      That's completely true.

      It is something US citizens should keep in mind as Obama progressively dismantles your military and plans to reduce your nuclear deterrent below a credible level. Against unreasonable opponents (eg. Islamic jihad) the "Law of the Jungle" cannot be denied (biggest and most determined wins).

      However, against a "reasonable" opponent many things can be solved by negotiation and quid-pro-quo (mutally agreed swaps). The trick is not to confuse reasonable and unreasonable opponents (the Left stupidly treat all opponents as reasonable; the rednecks treat all opponents as unreasonable).

    33. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Internetuser1248 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think he was referring to the camps outside of Israel, and incidents like this.

      Having said that, you are of course right that a comparison to nazi Germany is a great exaggeration. This does not make the behaviour any less reprehensible however.

    34. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Isnt Israel a democracy that DOESNT stick its people in prison camps?

      Sure they will. See, they have compulsory military service. Now, tell me what happens if you don't do as you're told when you're a member of a military.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    35. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You could bet if the US politicians at the time had known what a huge corrupt pain in the ass the Israeli government and the Mosad would become they would never have done so.

      On the contrary; the Israeli government has continued to be a massive pain in the ass for their neighbors, which was the whole purpose of the creation of the nation of Israel to begin with. Or did we not catch Lawrence of Arabia?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    36. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But... we have a FLAG!

    37. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by daath93 · · Score: 1

      Maybe when you do a Google Search for Portland Oregon it should show "Did you mean the Chinook Indian Nation?"

    38. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by sargon666777 · · Score: 1

      There are a host of ways to not be forced to join the military in Israel... For the record.. the US ALSO has compulsory military service through the draft, and required registration, and there are a host of ways to get out of it as well. Besides.. you wont find many citizens in Israel that don't want to be in the military.

      --
      Am I lying when I tell you that im telling the truth? Or am I telling the truth when I say that Im lying?
    39. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      For the record.. the US ALSO has compulsory military service through the draft,

      No, no it does not. It could, but it does not.

      Besides.. you wont find many citizens in Israel that don't want to be in the military.

      You're not very clever, are you? The whole point was that every citizen is indoctrinated and brainwashed. Of course their kids want to join the military.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    40. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by tibman · · Score: 1
      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    41. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      I hadnt heard of that, thanks for posting.

      My general point was that in discussions on Israel it seems like people take one side and dont want to admit that their side has done a lot to cause the problem. They will defend Israel, and ignore the questionable tactic of collective punishment or the ways in which Israel seems to try to provoke attacks. Or they will defend Palestine on the idea that we can ignore that Israel has been around for 70 years now, and we cant just pretend that the people there dont belong; and that any past injustices warrant any action whatsoever against civilian populatons; and that Israel somehow shouldnt be concerned over the repeated calls for its discussion.

      If you cant recognize the flaws of your own "side" in a discussion, theres a strong chance you have the blinders on and are living in an echo chamber.

    42. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      *discussion--> destruction

    43. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Free will? Personal responsiblity? Whats that?

      Nah, theyre just robots without the ability to decide for themselves. And NO Israeli youths are disillusioned, right?

    44. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Can I be Frodo this time?

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    45. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by flyneye · · Score: 1

      As I recall Titus came along and kicked their asses around and conquered there. Perhaps we could settle this by giving it to the Italians.
      Hey, if China can reclaim anything it ever owned, Italy should too. It could be fun if you think about it. From Britannia to India, from Egypt to Spain, let the Roman Empire Reign. Cabbage at Carthage, what a blast it would be for all. We can dispense with all this Muslim talk and Jewry , just O.P.P,for some good old fashioned sex and violence the O.G. way.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    46. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The US still has the draft

      No, it doesn't. It still has registration for the draft. This has been the case since 1973, as per your own link. Next time you might want to find a citation that doesn't directly contradict your statement...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    47. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Omestes · · Score: 1

      hy is this? because Israel's position is that it will live peaceably with the Arabs if they are prepared to sign a permanent peace treaty on fair terms. The Arab political position is simple: genocide for the Jews as laid out in the Qur'an and hadiths.

      This is a fallacious statement. There are "genocidal" Jews in Israel, and peace-loving Arabs in Palestine. Sadly on both sides the genocidal factions get the most press and power. The settler and hardline Zionists are just as bad, really, as the extremists among the Arabs.

      There was a point where you could say "this side has higher ground", but I feel that that time passed long ago. There has too much violence and extremism at this point for anyone to say anyone has clean hands anymore.

      The Jews should have settled there like they did. The Arabs shouldn't have reacted as they did. The Jews should have struck back as they did... The Arabs should have retaliated in that way... Etc...

      Drawing "moral equivalence" between the two sides ends up equating the genocidal goals of Islam with the right of a UN member State to defend itself against attack. Clearly such an equivalence is a falsehood.

      That would be picking sides... No, the aggressors on both sides should be stuck down, both Arab and Jew, allowing the normal folk who just want to raise their families live peaceably. The Arabs shouldn't get a pass, any more than the more hateful bits of the Zionist movement. Occupy Isreal/Palestine, then throw anyone who breaks the peace, Jew or Arab, on a desert island, naked, and let them sort it out like men, without letting innocents suffer.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    48. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Omestes · · Score: 1

      So Winston Churchill was no better than hitler?

      Did I say that? Did my cat sneak into my room with invisible bits while I was typing that? I've re-read my message three times now, even with my special glasses, and can't see where I wrote that.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    49. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by tibman · · Score: 1

      lol, yes. Registration for the thing the US doesn't have, right?

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    50. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 2

      Actually the legal basis for Israel goes back to the League of Nations in 1922 and the British Mandate. One of the first videos I posted in my original post explains the legal case, FYI. I suggest you check it out. Then we have the UN Resolution After that we have many wars (all the surrounding nations thought they could eliminate Israel through genocide). It is the wars that have shaped the current boundaries. Ignoring what boundary should be where (which, should be settled by negotiation without precondition, as was originally planned and the Israelis continue to say) it all comes down to a simple question: does Israel have a right to exist? given the continuous history of Jews in the area for 3000 years, the fact that Jews arrived in the late 19th Century and legally purchased land and the fact that the international community have repeatedly acknowledged the case for Israel where it is, then the answer to the question is pretty much *yes*. After that it is all details. The answer the Arabs give is *no*, despite the fact the Arabs did not own the territory - the former clearly recognized owners were the Ottoman Empire (for several hundred years) followed by the British under a League of Nations mandate (who then prepared the basis for the state of Israel).

    51. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 2

      This is a fallacious statement. There are "genocidal" Jews in Israel, and peace-loving Arabs in Palestine. Sadly on both sides the genocidal factions get the most press and power. The settler and hardline Zionists are just as bad, really, as the extremists among the Arabs.

      More moral equivalence, and I'm afraid this is false. Yes, I fully agree that the hardline religious right in Israel is dangerous. It turns out so does the Israel Government, who cracks down on them (when they can, given they are a democracy so need to amass sufficient votes to get the laws passed to do this).

      The point that it appears you have missed (as do many others) is not what individual people choose to do (there are crazies in all societies) but what are the relative positions of the respective Governments. The Israeli Government is not genocidal - think about it, if they wanted to eliminate and ethically cleans the non-Israeli Arabs (don't forget over 1 million Israelis are Arab) they could have easily done so (given the many wars and their overwhelming military power). The Israel Government takes great care not to harm Palestinian citizens (look at "Operation Pillar of Cloud", it is clear the Israelis care more about Palestinian citizens than Hamas does. Consider that the Israelis calling off strikes if Palestinian citizens are near; calling Palestinian citizens to warn them to leave buildings etc; treating Palestinian citizens in Israeli hospitals; even if this means rockets may continue to be launched at Israeli citizens!. Meanwhile Hamas targets Israeli citizens with indiscriminate rocket fire (12000 so far) which is a clear war crime, and Hamas builds bunkers to protect its men and rockets but refuses to let Palestinian citizens to shelter there (using armed force to keep them out) and instead prefers the Palestinian citizens be "involuntarily matyred" as human shields - as they can then use this for propaganda purposes (when they aren't busy displaying babies killed by their own misfired rockets [falsely blaming it on Israelis], or copying photos of dead Syrians and claiming the Israelis killed Palestinians etc. please Google "Pallywood" to see the lies the Palestinians use).

      That would be picking sides...

      I understand you are afraid that by picking sides you would enable equally bad people to carry out bad actions. However, as I've tried to point out (and I recommend you watch the links in my first post, please :) ) there is one side that has a stated goal (in Arabic) of committing genocide and ethnic cleansing, and the other side does not want to be killed by genocide and "swept into the sea" as the Arabs state repeatedly. Here is a good quote that sums the situation up, "If the Arabs laid down their arms there would be peace tomorrow; if the Israelis laid down their arms there would be no more Israel". See how the situation is not equivalent? In this case it not only moral to pick the Israeli side, it is immoral not too - ignoring repeated attempts and a stated Palestinian policy of genocide should not be ignored. Therefore, one is forced to pick sides.

      No, the aggressors on both sides should be stuck down, both Arab and Jew, allowing the normal folk who just want to raise their families live peaceably. The Arabs shouldn't get a pass, any more than the more hateful bits of the Zionist movement. Occupy Isreal/Palestine, then throw anyone who breaks the peace, Jew or Arab, on a desert island, naked, and let them sort it out like men, without letting innocents suffer.

      Please read the history then. You will find that the Arabs started all the wars. In 1967 the Arabs were preparing another war (already had shelling in the Sinai and a naval blockade of Israel) when the Israelis per-emptively struck (if they hadn't then they'd been gone, and the Arabs would have been able to carry out their *stated goal* of genocide).

    52. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Lew-the-nerd · · Score: 1

      Let's not sneak in hyperbole to make a point. That is childish and intellectually dishonest.

      Palestinians send rockets with the intent of killing people (3000 rocket attacks/attempts in the year before the Gaza 'war.'. Their rockets are packed with explosives and, if they do kill someone, there is lots of celebrating.

      What is the appropriate response to Palestinian attempts to kill people in large bunches?

      If Israelis are 'bombing them back to the stone age' why is it that the West Bank economy is flourishing and there are four times as many Palestinians now as there were in 1948.

    53. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Lew-the-nerd · · Score: 1

      And.....
      If the Palestinians wish to preserve lives, they would not purposefully put their rocket emplacements and stores in the midst of civilian dwellings and close to hospitals and mosques.

    54. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by lsatenstein · · Score: 2

      Yes, both sides want to kill each other, that's the problem in a nutshell.

      ---
      I am favorably biased towards Israel and with Israels wanting preconditions to peace. All the Arab countries have said, "We will wipe Israel off the map". Israel has said, if you want to be recognized, it is reciprocal. Recognize the State of Israel. We are here, we are not going away.

      Instead you Arabs want the return of lands (some of which we are prepared to negotiate) and you will still persist in wanting our annihilation. The 1967 borders, (like the Mexico vs Texas and Arizona borders) is not on the table.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    55. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      lol, yes. Registration for the thing the US doesn't have, right?

      That is correct. Words have meanings, and you are failing them. Other countries not having draft registration doesn't mean they can't institute a draft at any time. They simply have registrationless drafting. Instead of drafting selective individuals (which is why the thing you doubtless think of as a "Draft office" is actually the selective service) other countries will simply employ press gangs in the case of a draft, and grab people off the street and slap them into a uniform. We don't do that because we don't use cannon fodder, we have a lovely thing called tactics. In order for it to work, we need people at least physically fit to be soldiers. We're not going to put your grandma in khakis and drop her in front of a tank to slow it down. That's why we need a selective service, that's why we have draft registration without a draft, and that's why you need to consult your dictionary.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    56. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Actually the legal basis for Israel goes back to the League of Nations in 1922 and the British Mandate.

      Actually, the League of Nations was a failure, because no one took it seriously.

      Then we have the UN Resolution After that we have many wars (all the surrounding nations thought they could eliminate Israel through genocide). It is the wars that have shaped the current boundaries.

      Yes, those boundaries are even worse bullshit than the "original" boundaries of "Israel".

      Ignoring what boundary should be where (which, should be settled by negotiation without precondition, as was originally planned and the Israelis continue to say) it all comes down to a simple question: does Israel have a right to exist? given the continuous history of Jews in the area for 3000 years, the fact that Jews arrived in the late 19th Century and legally purchased land and the fact that the international community have repeatedly acknowledged the case for Israel where it is, then the answer to the question is pretty much *yes*.

      Given that Jews were 10% of the population of the area and were driven out by force, and you want to suggest that the wars should be able to push the boundaries around, the answer to the question is pretty much no. Either using force to establish territory is valid, in which case the Jews were already kicked out of the region by completely valid means, or it isn't, in which case the nation of Israel was created under completely specious conditions.

      The answer the Arabs give is *no*, despite the fact the Arabs did not own the territory

      If it's valid to create an Israeli state in the region by act of violence, which is what happened, then it's valid to create a Palestinian state in the region by act of violence, right over the top of Israel.

      Also...

      which, should be settled by negotiation without precondition, as was originally planned and the Israelis continue to say

      They can say anything they want, but it's clear they believe no such thing. They've adjusted the borders a couple times now, pray they do not adjust them again. They have no intention of settling this problem by negotiation, and if you bought that lie in the face of obvious counterevidence then there's really nothing anyone can do to help you wake up.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    57. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by sargon666777 · · Score: 1

      Have you ever been to Israel? I have.. many times.. I have yet to witness anyone being indoctrinated.. Perhaps you should make a convincing argument rather than resorting to personal attacks.. In regards to the U.S. not having a draft.. what exactly are we forcing everyone to register for.. See: http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/wars/a/draft2.htm

      --
      Am I lying when I tell you that im telling the truth? Or am I telling the truth when I say that Im lying?
    58. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by tibman · · Score: 1

      That's why the US has draft registration without a draft? No, you're wrong. There is draft registration so that there can be a draft. I think you partially understand how the US Army works though. But don't think that recruits have to be strong or fit. They just have to be able to follow directions. Training will make them fit. That's why selective service is ALL 18 year old males. That's pretty selective, eh?

      Also, you are constantly an asshole on slashdot. I'm failing "words have meanings"? I believe that is typically called misunderstanding. Stop attacking anyone who disagrees with you before you end up a lonely old man.

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    59. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's a good point that's often lost.

      Incidentally, I do think that one of the bigger villains in the conflict is the US media. They almost never cover Israeli opposition parties who advocate more rights and autonomy for Palestinians, or Palestinian non-violent resistance movements. The inevitable result of this is that only stupidity and mindless belligerence gets noticed on both sides, and so it becomes self-perpetuating on both sides.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    60. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 2

      Actually, the League of Nations was a failure, because no one took it seriously.

      I agree. In 1922 the League was relatively fresh. It was later everyone ignored it (same with the UN after the Communist+Islamic 'Red/Green' alliance set up a voting bloc that allowed crazy resolutions after about 1970 - which one of the videos I posted in an earlier comment shows how that came about). The main thing to take away is, *under international law there is a legal basis for Israel* (many deny that there is this basis). We can quibble about where the borders ought to be, but the position of many in the UN's OIC voting bloc is that there should be no Israel whatsoever - which it not in line with accepted international law.

      Yes, those boundaries are even worse bullshit than the "original" boundaries of "Israel".

      Ok, so would it be safe to assume that you don't think Israel should exist at all? that would explain the rest of your post - but it would be nice if you 'came out' in front of other Slashdotters so they could judge how reasonable you are (as in, you agree with the genocidal aims of the Palestinian Arabs, yes?).

      Given that Jews were 10% of the population of the area and were driven out by force, and you want to suggest that the wars should be able to push the boundaries around, the answer to the question is pretty much no. Either using force to establish territory is valid, in which case the Jews were already kicked out of the region by completely valid means, or it isn't, in which case the nation of Israel was created under completely specious conditions.

      Well, either you believe in force as the basis of authority or you don't. If you do believe in force as the basis of national authority then Israel deserves to keep the land it has - and might as well annex Judea and Samaria under the same 'rule of force' rules you propose. If you believe that force/conquest does not legitimize national sovereignity then you then have to turn to the legal basis of these things, in which case Israel is legal and the status of Judea/Samaria/West Bank remains officially "disputed" territory to be resolved by negotiation. Either way, Israel has the right to be in Israel proper and the only thing left is the sovereignty of the "disputed" territory of the West Bank (do the Jordanians own it, or does Israel? that's the question to be resolved).

      If it's valid to create an Israeli state in the region by act of violence, which is what happened, then it's valid to create a Palestinian state in the region by act of violence, right over the top of Israel.

      False and shows you don't know even the basics of the 20th Century history of the region. It is no wonder your statements seem profoundly ignorant from the position of anyone who does know the history. Israel was set up by League of Nations mandate followed by UN recognition. The violence was the Arab Legion (including armies from five nations) attacking the day after Israel was recognized by the UN (and the Arab League had the stated goal of genocide). There was Arab vs Jew violence under the British, but this was inter-community tension not related directly for the political formation of Israel (there were terrorist attacks against the British, but you are talking about the Arab vs Jewish conflict, yes?). If you look at the history it is clear that the Israelis always fight wars that are 'strategically defensive' in nature because they are attacked by the strategically offensive Arabs. The Israelis do use 'tactical offense' as part of their strategically defensive posture. I hope you have enough military knowledge to know the difference. *It is the Israelis under attack by the Arab Ummah/jihadis/Iranian proxies and rocket fire etc* and it is the Israelis who are on the *strategic defensive*. If you hate aggression then you ought to look at the *strategic aggressor*, which is the Islamists.

      They can say anyth

    61. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Yakasha · · Score: 1

      I get that Israel does some shady stuff, but its really important on an issue as touchy as this to try to be objective, and refrain from hyperbole. Neither side has been great about this, both sides have considerable grievances, but neither side is as bad as WW2 Germany or current North Korea.

      Perspective, rationality, guys.

      This is all I want. I'm get worked up by the Rush Limbaugh quality opinions.

      As soon as the rockets and suicide bombings stop, I'll start attacking the 2nd biggest threat to peace in the Israeli/Palestinian issue: Israel.

    62. Re:USA:Israel::China:BestKorea by Yakasha · · Score: 1

      I don't see the South electing a government with the stated goal of expelling or murdering every resident of the North, flatly stating that any and all negotiations are purely strategic moves to delay fighting when deemed necessary, that the commonly accepted "two state solution" will never be allowed to happen, or refusing to acknowledge the historical incidents predating the formation of their Northern neighbor and otherwise implicitly believing that no Northern citizen has a right to live.

      Yeah, I don't like the Likud Charter either:

      The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting. ... The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.

      Which part of the charter claims the inferiority of "The Jew", or in this case the Palestinians? Or states that peace negotiations are only strategic moves?

      None of it.

      The comparison is still invalid. Wildly invalid.

  2. Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by Karganeth · · Score: 1, Funny

    He just removed "territories" from the "Palestine territories" google picture because he thought it looked better. Now every major news outlet is carrying this (non)story.

    1. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 5, Informative

      While it's an amusing thought, Google actually consulted the UN and is rolling out the change across all of their products. (mumble mumble rtfa)

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    2. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by He+Who+Has+No+Name · · Score: 1

      ...except the UN has stated they are not a nation, or a sovereign, and cannot recognize nations or governments. The UN's response has nothing to do with the international legitimacy of a Palestinian state.

    3. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by Khashishi · · Score: 5, Informative

      Only that the UN is in a better position to recognize a nation than pretty much any other entity.

    4. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by Squiddie · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm pretty sure Google has more power than many small nations and the UN.

    5. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The UN's response has nothing to do with the international legitimacy of a Palestinian state.

      Since Israel's only claim to legitimacy is the U.N.'s declaration, I suppose this means no legitimate state occupies that land?

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    6. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Ha ha, just as well. I can imagine the poor guy.... when I was a kid a decade or so ago I was a devmin for a small UN site and, uh "accidentally" filed the West Bank and Gaza under Israel in the database hierarchy.

      Fortunately my client at the World Bank with a bit more knowledge of world events that I received from US HS History set me straight before we pushed it to production.

      But I suppose this balances it all out then!

      Still, it's amazing how much trouble "kids these days" can get into for doing the same shit we did when we were young.

    7. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by cold+fjord · · Score: 1, Informative

      Since Israel's only claim to legitimacy is the U.N.'s declaration, I suppose this means no legitimate state occupies that land?

      Israel is self-certifying at this point, so that is nonsense. You do know that nations existed before the UN came along too, right?

      Besides that, there have been Jews there continuously for thousands of years, and several Jewish states on that land.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    8. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Even before the UN decision, Palestine had more international recognition from nation states than Taiwan.

    9. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      Israel did not arise from a UN mandate, they won statehood by fighting a war of independence.

      The Zionist movement declared itself to be an independent nation, that declaration triggered the 1948 war with neighboring states, Israel won. About a year after the war the UN had no real choice other than to recognize them as a state, (they had a functioning government and well defined borders). Before Israel's declaration of independence the league of nations (UN) had planned to partition the territories, the Zionists symbolically made their independence claim on the day the partition was due to come into force.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    10. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by DaHat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Since Israel's only claim to legitimacy is the U.N.'s declaration, I suppose this means no legitimate state occupies that land?

      Riiiight.

      Lets just ignore the fact that their claims to legitimacy pre-date the existence of the UN: The Legal Case for Israel

      But why let facts and history get in the way?

    11. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by Uberbah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Israel is self-certifying at this point, so that is nonsense

      You mean, the "wait out the clock" game that has been the Zionist goal since they first started to steal land from Palestinians in the 30's. Which is also rich, coming from the nation still pursuing Nazi war criminals and stolen assets from the 30's. If human beings lived 500 years Israel would still be hunting those people and assets down in the year 2400 A.D. But land stolen in an aggressive war of choice in 1967? 46 years is toooo loooong ago to worry about!

      You do know that nations existed before the UN came along too, right?

      You know that's an irrelevant comparison, right? The is no equivalence for Israel, where a nation is carved out of existing land and people for the benefit of an immigrant population. There was no U.N. recognizing American statehood in the 1600's at the expense of Native Americans.

      Besides that, there have been Jews there continuously for thousands of years, and several Jewish states on that land.

      Ah, the "continuous presence" canard. Problem: at 1900, Jews made up less than 10% of the population of Palestine. The "declaration of independence" was a land grab from a bunch of European immigrants no better than Manifest Destiny.

      Second problem: if the surrounding Arab nations were to militarily "wipe Israel off the map", you'd have to be okay with that, because of a "continuing Palestinian presence" in the area.

    12. Re:Imagine The Poor Guy Who Changed This by Mystakaphoros · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Good point. Let us not forget that Nicaragua invaded Costa Rica and planted a flag a mile or two over the border a few years ago because of an error on Google Maps. http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/11/google-maps-error-blamed-for-nicaraguan-invasion/

  3. Good. It's about time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Good. It's about time.

    EOM

  4. Rule of thumb on Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If they don't like what you've done, you've probably done the right thing.

    1. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by Hentes · · Score: 2

      That's an overgeneralization. Iran's nuclear program doesn't become good just because it annoys Israel.

    2. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nor does it become bad because it annoys Israel.

    3. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If they don't like what you've done, you've probably done the right thing.

      The only problem with that theory is that most Israelis can't wait to revoke Israeli-Arabs citizenships, voting rights and social security benefits on the grounds of dual nationality or as supporters \ members of an enemy state.

      What people don't realize is that Israel is still essentially a socialist state. While not quite the kibbutz some folks imagine it to be, it's still impossible to live here on a median income without the tax breaks and heavy subsidies citizens are provided with. And, since almost everything (especially utilities like water and electricity) is government owned or managed, the median wages have adjusted to just barely cover housing and food. e.g. Most folks don't even handle their pension plan since the law forces the employers to manage that for the employees along with filing their income taxes.

      That's right, in Israel, unless your self employed, you don't file your income tax yourself. Your boss does it for you.

      Right now, 30% of Israeli universities students are Palestinians who receive the usual 50% student subsidies. Then, there's child support, free health care, almost free medication, almost free education from ages 3-18... That's 20% of the population suddenly finding themselves one day without the means to support their families, possibly themselves and without any meaningful savings since they never made enough money in the first place.

      But hey, since us Israelis don't like it, it's probably a good idea...

    4. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Rule of thumb for Zionists - if it's critical of Israel in anyway, call it racist.

    5. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just so you know, plenty of Jews think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is two groups of extremist shitheads making things worse for everyone.

    6. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by cold+fjord · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Rule of thumb for "anti-Zionists" - Watch them - too few can stop themselves from crossing the line into either effective or outright anti-Semitism.

      The European Left and Its Trouble With Jews

      Today, a sizable section of the European left has been reluctant to take a clear stand when anti-Zionism spills over into anti-Semitism. Beginning in the 1990s, many on the European left began to view the growing Muslim minorities in their countries as a new proletariat and the Palestinian cause as a recruiting mechanism. The issue of Palestine was particularly seductive for the children of immigrants, marooned between identities.

      Capitalism was depicted as undermining a perfect Islamic society while cultural imperialism corrupted Islam. The tactic has a distinguished revolutionary pedigree. Indeed, the cry, “Long live Soviet power, long live the Shariah,” was heard in Central Asia during the 1920s after Lenin tried to cultivate Muslim nationalists in the Soviet East once his attempt to spread revolution to Europe had failed. But the question remains: why do today’s European socialists identify with Islamists whose worldview is light-years removed from their own? . . . more

      The view of the Times is too timid - anti-Semitism is becoming a disease of the left.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    7. Re: Rule of thumb on Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Rule of thumb for anti Zionists: it is always acceptable when Palestinians do it.

    8. Re: Rule of thumb on Israel by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 2

      There's blame on all sides. The Palestinians and Israelis both act like a bunch of violent monsters. I don't even really care that Israel is matching their butchery. That is, after all, how wars are won, and I'm not directly effected. It's not something that I like my government to be apart of, and I especially hate it when Israel tries to present itself the beacon of morality in the region, and pretend that they are any more dignified than the Muslims. The entire region is full of greedy, hateful thugs and I wish they would both stop spilling blood over a meaningless desert and go away.

    9. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      But hey, since us Israelis don't like it, it's probably a good idea...

      Obvious context was Israeli policies and aggression towards the native population. That Israel has some great schools and water management policies doesn't have much to do with their practice of Apartheid.

    10. Re: Rule of thumb on Israel by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      The Palestinians and Israelis both act like a bunch of violent monsters

      Were Native Americans fighting dispossession and Apartheid from European immigrants a "bunch of violent monsters", or were they legitimately pissed that their land was being stolen and their culture destroyed?

    11. Re: Rule of thumb on Israel by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 1

      Their anger was legitimate, as is Israel's and Palestine's perhaps. This is a very good analogy, as the Europeans and American's were a bunch of monsters, but the natives weren't a band of happy-go-lucky people living in harmony with the land either. They liked to scalp innocents in their bloodlust just as much as Whites' liked to systematically starve them and infect them with disease. Of course, at the time, no one paid attention to all the treaties the US broke to exterminate them, and many people got rich off the newly annexed land. With time, we've come to be a bit more honest with ourselves, which is something that Israel has yet to do. How will history view Israel's conquest I wonder....

    12. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by Alomex · · Score: 3

      I call BS on your entire post. You say:

      Right now, 30% of Israeli universities students are Palestinians

      Here's the actual data from the government of Israel:

      Among 251,800 students in 2010/11 at academic institutions, 11% (27,400) were Arabs, constituting 13.6% of the students in bachelor's programs at universities and 7.7% of the university students studying for a master's degree.

      Another example:

      What people don't realize is that Israel is still essentially a socialist state.

      Israel left behind its socialists beginnings long ago, around the time of Bibi's first term in 1996.

      Third one:

      And, since almost everything (especially utilities like water and electricity) is government owned or managed,

      Let me FTFY:

      Outside of utilities like water and electricity as well as airports which are publicly owned like in many other countries, Israel is very much a free market economy with a large number of private enterprises including a healthy number of technological startups I might add.

      Fourth one:

      Most folks don't even handle their pension plan since the law forces the employers to manage that for the employees along with filing their income taxes.

      Gosh that sounds eerily like the bastion of Marxism, the ol' USA, where GM along with all other big companies manages (or at least used to manage before many of them went bankrupt) its employee retirement funds.

    13. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by myowntrueself · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Rule of thumb for "anti-Zionists" - Watch them - too few can stop themselves from crossing the line into either effective or outright anti-Semitism.

      If it were anti-semitic it would be against Arabs as well.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    14. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      If it were anti-semitic it would be against Arabs as well.

      Not in general usage, no, just Jews.

      Antisemitism

      Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is prejudice, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage. A person who holds such positions is called an "antisemite".

      While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, the term was coined in the late 19th century in Germany as a more scientific-sounding term for Judenhass ("Jew-hatred"),[1] and that has been its normal use since then.[2] For the purposes of a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism was considered "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity."[3] . . . more

      It is an amusing notion though that anti-Semites can't choose to hate whom they will due to a technical obscurity that isn't anywhere near general usage.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    15. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      The problem is that most of the time the hatred of people who are labeled 'antisemites' is not directed at a race but at something more akin to a geopolitical entity. I can't say they hate the Jewish religion as thats almost entirely racial (at least according to the rabbis in Israel who maintain that you can't be 'a Jew' unless your mother is Jewish). Rather, the 'antisemites' hate something thats more political/economic than religious/racial or even ethnic. For example, I bet most antisemites would hate white European Jews as much as they would hate black African Jews or Middle Eastern authentically semitic Jews (who anyone would have difficulty telling from an Arab).

      The use of the term is further watered down by Jews who use it as a generic insult; I have even heard a Jew calling ANOTHER JEW an 'antisemite', in much the same way as a British person might call someone 'a cunt'.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    16. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Since humanity started in Africa, we are all Africans - regardless of the amount of melanine.

      Some of us are halfbreed Neanderthals, Denisovans or Homo-erectus. I guess the only people who are in a position to be properly racist are Africans.. the only real pure blooded humans.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    17. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by dilipm · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with being anti-JEW? The Jews are the ones responsible for most of the suffering on earth.

      Could your provide some numbers to establish this as a fact? I would be delighted to see if this in fact is the case. If this is true though, then we know at least who are the right people to confront? I mean, we've been pointlessly killing each other since the beginning of modern human civilization, so..

    18. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by hazah · · Score: 1

      I keep reading your posts with this bizzare slant that there's a "native" population that isn't Israeli. I hate to break this to you (again, that is. As I've seen the replies too... but appearantly you've not been reading, or can't seem to grasp it, whatever) but whatever population you *may* be referring to had been conquered. Welcome to planet Earth, dipshit. We're now almost 70 years into the future of these events. EVERYONE LIVING THERE IS NATIVE. Your hate is barberic, uncivilized and unsophisticated. Sad.

    19. Re:Rule of thumb on Israel by jd99gst · · Score: 1

      South Korean employers also files taxes on behalf of employees. What exactly is the problem with that?

  5. A First for Google by cervesaebraciator · · Score: 5, Funny

    After much deliberation, they thought "Palestine Beta" would cause yet more controversy.

  6. all part of the big ploy? by crutchy · · Score: 5, Funny

    the rothschild family and the queen of england are just trying to use their proxies (including google) to spark conflict in the middle east to trigger world war 3, collapse the US dollar and invoke the new world order... in preparation for the nazis to return from the dark side of the moon with their army of rock spiders

    1. Re:all part of the big ploy? by xstonedogx · · Score: 1

      Silly goose. Everyone knows rock spiders are from Mars.

    2. Re:all part of the big ploy? by Ambiguous+Coward · · Score: 1

      Someone didn't watch the documentary Apollo 18.

      Also, it was the Russians.

      --
      Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
    3. Re:all part of the big ploy? by unitron · · Score: 4, Funny

      No Illuminati, no Knights Templar, no Free Masons, no Opus Dei, no Rosicrucians.

      And you expect us to believe there's an actual conspiracy?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    4. Re:all part of the big ploy? by 19061969 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Aren't there supposed to be some lizards in there somewhere?

      --
      bang goes my karma... again...
  7. in line with typical Google policy by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Informative

    Google typically defers to self-identification, even where names or status are disputed. For example, google.mk is taglined "Google Macedonia", not "Google FYROM".

    1. Re:in line with typical Google policy by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      Their map policy seems to be different. On the map, "Palestine" isn't labeled as a country. Instead, "Israel" is the only country in the area with a name typeset in the font used for country names. The Palestinian territories are labeled "West Bank" and "Gaza Strip" in a smaller font indicating a sub-national division.

    2. Re:in line with typical Google policy by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      According to Wikipedia, Macedonia's population is over 64% Macedonian. Almost all of the rest is Albanian (who aren't Slavs either). Less than 3% of Macedonia's population is Slav.

  8. Re:About frickin' time! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Actually, quite contrary to that. The world goes to great lengths not to notice the daily war crimes perpetrated against Israeli civilians.
    Or Syrians. Or Rwandans. When a favourite hobby (any, really, not just Israel-bashing) becomes an all-consuming obsession, it is time to see a doctor.
    So, world, make an appointment. There are medications that can remedy the "dos darn juice shat in my pants" syndrome.

  9. And There Was Much Rejoicing! by Greyfox · · Score: 1
    To celebrate, I'm going to stand in this bucket and sing "Jerusalem!"

    And did those feet, in ancient times, walk upon England's mountains green? Everyone now!

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  10. Re:About frickin' time! by femtobyte · · Score: 3, Insightful

    An organization that wants any other group wiped from the face of Earth deserves just that.

    I assume you're talking about the Israeli government? Or do they not count, because they actually are systematically wiping Palestine off the map, instead of just wanting it?

  11. Re:About frickin' time! by PPH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Annex?

    Don't you mean occupy? Or are you admitting that Israel is taking land by force?

    I have no problem with Israel occupying Palestinian territories from which rockets are fired. They can do for as long as it takes for the attacks to stop as far as I am concerned. But its not their land to settle.

    The Sinai was returned to Egypt as a condition of a peace treaty. And the Golan Heights will be returned to Syria based on the same.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  12. Good by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was so pleased when the UN finally told the US and Israel what they thought of the nice little Ghetto Israel had created for the Palestinians to slowly be eradicated in.

    Frankly, I agree with Sir Gerald Kaufman of the UK in his views that Israel is no better than certain German Fascists in their treatment of the Palestinians.

    “The current Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt among gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians,” Sir Gerald Kaufman, a veteran MP of the governing Labour Party and a long-time critic of Israel, said Thursday in parliament.

    And before some butt-hurt heeb starts pulling out his "you disagree with Israel, you therefor are an anti-semite" card...
    Sir Gerald Kaufman is himself a Jew.

    I hope that someday more land can be given to Palestine and both sides can learn to live in peace -- but considering this dispute seems driven by ultra-conservative religious wing-nuts on all sides, I don't think that will happen without total annihilation of the region.

    1. Re:Good by PPH · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up and let the bullets fly.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Good by skdffff · · Score: 1, Funny

      And before some butt-hurt heeb starts pulling out his "you disagree with Israel, you therefor are an anti-semite" card...
      Sir Gerald Kaufman is himself a Jew.

      There are three kinds of people - jews, anti-semites and jewish anti-semites.

    3. Re:Good by digitig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The "Self-Hating Jew" myth is just a version of the No True Scotsman fallacy, weasel words to try to avoid the truth that Jewish != Zionist and to try to exclude anybody who disagrees with you from the discussion.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    4. Re:Good by Yakasha · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Frankly, I agree with Sir Gerald Kaufman of the UK in his views that Israel is no better than certain German Fascists in their treatment of the Palestinians.

      I don't recall German Jews ever stating they wanted to march every German into the Rhine (Ya, I know that quote doesn't come from a Palestinian, but the sentiment does and it predates the formation of Israel), so I really don't see how the comparison is valid.

      “The current Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt among gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians,

      Actually their most commonly cited reason for "murdering the Palestinians" is something along the lines of "INCOMING ROCKET!" I really don't ever hear the Holocaust being brought up except to compare Israeli Jews to the Nazis.

      And before some butt-hurt heeb starts pulling out his "you disagree with Israel, you therefor are an anti-semite" card... Sir Gerald Kaufman is himself a Jew.

      Uncle Tom doesn't care what race you are.

      I hope that someday more land can be given to Palestine and both sides can learn to live in peace -- but considering this dispute seems driven by ultra-conservative religious wing-nuts on all sides, I don't think that will happen without total annihilation of the region.

      The Palestinians have been rejecting a two-state solution for more than 80 years. So you're probably right on the mutual annihilation...

    5. Re:Good by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      And before some butt-hurt heeb starts pulling out his "you disagree with Israel, you therefor are an anti-semite" card...
      Sir Gerald Kaufman is himself a Jew.

      He may be a jew but that doesn't stop anti-semites like yourself from using his words for your own purposes. If you don't want to be accused of being an anti-semite, don't use racial slurs like "heeb."

      Bigots like you aren't doing the Palestinians any favors when you use their terrible situation as a tool for your own passive-aggressive racism.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    6. Re:Good by Uberbah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It would really lend to your credibility if you recognized at all the the Palestinians want to completely destroy Israel.

      Tautology with no basis in reality. But even if it were true, that's batshit irrelevant to Palestinian right to self-determination, and their right to all of the land seized in the 1967 war started by Israel.

      As it is, you seem pretty one sided in your view.

      As it is, I find your lack of self-awareness disturbing.

    7. Re:Good by Uberbah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually their most commonly cited reason for "murdering the Palestinians" is something along the lines of "INCOMING ROCKET!"

      You mean this rocket right here? And the excuse for Israel violating ceasefires and killing hundreds of Palestinians a la Cast Lead?

      More problems for tired Zionist apologia: Israel's justification for starting the 1967 war was the Egyptian blockade of the Straits of Tiran, one of many trade routes to Israel. But that means that Palestinian attacks in response to the total blockade of Gaza are perfectly justified by Israeli rules.

      The Palestinians have been rejecting a two-state solution for more than 80 years.

      Repeating a big lie doesn't make it true, it just makes you a bigger liar. The Palestinians are entitled to all of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, but they've been willing to make concessions on that in order to get a state of their own. But Israel keeps making more and more draconian demands, or pulls out of negotiations.

      Because Israel isn't interested in peace. It's interested in land, and waiting out the clock until it becomes a matter of taking land from someone's great-great grandchild to give to someone else's great-great grandchild.

    8. Re:Good by Mystakaphoros · · Score: 1

      before some butt-hurt heeb

      Or just that "butt-hurt heeb" is not usually the marker of a rational debate.

    9. Re:Good by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      True, I shouldn't have even tried to talk to the guy.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    10. Re:Good by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      The Palestinians would get more respect if it wasn't for the fact they launch rockets indiscriminately at Israelis.

      Gee, if only someone would sell them some decent guidance equipment...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    11. Re:Good by amorsen · · Score: 1

      It's too bad that the Palestinian Arabs rejected the original partition agreement that the British mandate tried to mediate

      a) I'll just quote Uberbah: "The "reality of the situation" is that the proposal was to give 56% of the land to 31% of the population. And of that 31%, the vast majority were just off the boat from Europe. Of course the natives rejected such a deal, you would too."
      b) Why would the Palestinians trust such a deal? What guarantee was there that it would not just happen again, with 56% of the remaining 31%? And again?

      They did the only honourable thing and assembled an international coalition force to kick out the invaders. Alas, they failed.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    12. Re:Good by deimtee · · Score: 1

      Splitters!

      --
      I'm guessing that wasn't on their radar screen...
    13. Re:Good by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be nice to just forget about those other Jews who chose to live in a bad neighborhood?

      How far do you plan to rewind the clock? We're talking about people who got kicked out of a region and then were forcibly reinstalled into it. How are you going to calm that situation down?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Good by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      ...the people who provide these rockets...

      are also providing their spacesuits

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    15. Re:Good by Lew-the-nerd · · Score: 1

      Most of the land was already given to the Palestinians in the form of Jordan.
      And a large part what was left that was ceded to the Jews was the Negev desert.

    16. Re:Good by u38cg · · Score: 1
      Actually, Israel has a serious problem, and they need to come to an accommodation sooner rather than later. The problem is, they can't manage their internal disputes to achieve significant action.

      The problem is that the Palestinians have a significantly higher birth rate and Jews will effectively be a minority in the not-too-distant future. At that point, they lose democratic legitimacy, so they need to come up with a satisfactory settlement before that happens.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    17. Re:Good by Yakasha · · Score: 1

      You mean this rocket right here?

      No, I mean the ones the anti-semitic organization Hamas, who the Palestinians elected to run their government, continually fire at innocent Jewish families. The ones you never have to live through. The ones you so easily make light of and excuse. The fact that Israel has better technology doesn't make the people firing those rockets any less evil.

      More problems for tired Zionist apologia: Israel's justification for starting the 1967 war was the Egyptian blockade of the Straits of Tiran

      I haven't apologized for anything. I merely point out facts that both sides, mostly anti-semitics, like to ignore.

      But that means that Palestinian attacks in response to the total blockade of Gaza are perfectly justified by Israeli rules.

      Sure kid. And its perfectly justified if Manson gets out and murders some more because we were evil enough to put him in prison. You're a typical anti-semite refusing to acknowledge that you would yourself would never live with the shennanigans the Palestinians are pulling and would probably respond in the same way.

      The Palestinians are entitled to all of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, but they've been willing to make concessions on that in order to get a state of their own.

      Of course they do. As soon as Jordan gave up their own claim to the land it should go to some randomly chosen 3rd party that promises to kick out and/or murder some portion of the population. And the Jews that have been living there for the last 2000 years, or those that came at the invite of the Ottoman Emperor be damned, right? Just like the ones that were murdered or expelled from Gaza in 1929.

      But Israel keeps making more and more draconian demands, or pulls out of negotiations.

      They both have at various points.

      Because Israel isn't interested in peace.

      I'm sorry, who isn't interested in peace? Have you even read the Hamas charter?

      It's interested in land, and waiting out the clock until it becomes a matter of taking land from someone's great-great grandchild to give to someone else's great-great grandchild.

      Probably. But until the rockets stop, I don't give a fuck. You don't target children. Ever.

  13. Re:About frickin' time! by mendax · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is about time! And with respect to any Israelis or Jews who might be offended by Google's actions today. I have just one thing to say to you: fuck you.

    Google is responding to the reality of the situation on the ground today. The Palestinians people lived in a place called in English Palestine by everyone else including the Jews until 1948 when Israel was created. While it is true that they and other Arab neighbors did cause some problems by deciding not to bow to the reality of the political situation then and agree with the two-state solution created by the UN back then and to fight the Jews who through the UN legally stole half of Palestine from the Palestinians the fact of the matter is that there is a nation that is bottled up within the borders of the current state of Israel that do not want to be a part of Israel and would like some of the land back that the Israelis stole from them in 1967 not so fair and square.

    Israel as it currently exists as a Jewish state is doomed because of the unsustainable situation it is in. The writing has been on the wall for a long time now. The nation is quickly losing the moral capital the Holocaust granted it by tacitly creating ghettos for the Palestinians on the West Bank and Gaza, regularly depriving these people of commerce, jobs, food, water, and electricity, and then expecting that the people they victimize will simply put up with it. Google's actions today are just another nail in the coffin of the Jewish state.

    Ok, ok, I'm getting off my soap box now.

    --
    It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
  14. Re:About frickin' time! by Squiddie · · Score: 2

    Individuals launching rockets is not the same as Israel as a whole committing those crimes. Also I don't remember the Palestinians using white phosphorus on civilians, do you?

  15. Re:Religion. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

    What, give both parties nukes and let them hash it out once and for all?

  16. Re:About frickin' time! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Actually, quite contrary to that. The world goes to great lengths not to notice the daily war crimes perpetrated by Israeli military.

    FTFY. You are quite welcome.

  17. Re:All hail the new world government by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

    The UN is saving its energy for the vi/emacs dispute.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  18. Re:About frickin' time! by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    And the Golan Heights will be returned to Syria based on the same.

    Don't hold your breath on that one.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  19. Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As an Israeli, all I can say is:

        * It's about time.
        * Don't worry about the yelling from certain Israeli politicians. They look just as dumb to most Israelis as they do to the rest of the world.

    1. Re:Yawn by Mystakaphoros · · Score: 1

      It's been kind of fun recently watching Yair Lapid tear into some of them in the Knesset.

  20. DNA tests by darth_borehd · · Score: 2

    DNA has shown that Israelis and Palestinians are the same people. Either they both have an ancestral claim to the land or neither one does.

    1. Re:DNA tests by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 1

      Lets see if your argument passes the substitution test...
      DNA tests confirm that Chinese and Africans are both the same people. Either they both have an ancestral claim to the land or neither one does.

      This just might be the least intelligent comment of all time! That's it, game's over; we can stop acting dumb now, the prize has been taken.

    2. Re:DNA tests by darth_borehd · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I should have qualified this by stating that Israelis are more genetically related to Palestinians than to Jews living in other countries while Palestinians are more related to Israelis than to Arabs in other countries.

      In other words, they are genetically the same people.

  21. Re:About frickin' time! by femtobyte · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That their holy book says all infidels must convert or die doesn't give them any moral high ground.

    That Israel ignores all the parts of their holy book demanding just treatment of foreigners (leaving only the parts about conquest and oppression and exclusion) nicely levels the moral playing field.

  22. Re:About frickin' time! by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    If you think it is "individuals" launching rockets you have a seriously flawed understanding of the situation.

    If you're outraged about the use of chemicals against "civilians," do you have any to spare?

    Suicide Bombs Spread Rat Poison, Disease

    Is a Palestinian Arab launching a rocket aimed at an Israeli town innocent?

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  23. Re:About frickin' time! by Squiddie · · Score: 1

    I do not see the PA or even Hamas advocating the launching or rockets lately. If there are such criminals, then they can be prosecuted. Demolishing hospitals is obviously not proportional response.

  24. Re:Violence and Palestinians Muslims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    JIDF pls go

  25. Re:Violence and Palestinians Muslims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Two counterpoints:

    #1: Poor people are usually religiously backward. Israel has kept Palestine poor. If Palestinians were free to trade, and grew wealthier, they might become a bit more progressive.

    #2: Even if Palestinians are backward hicks, that doesn't justify Israel's treatment of them. A Palestinian state may not be an ideal solution, if it has a high chance of turning into a theocracy, but is there any other way of preventing Israel from further mistreating them?

  26. Re:Violence and Palestinians Muslims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Furthermore, never in history has there ever been a single Jewish suicide bomber.

    In what twisted reality is it a badge of honor that Israel only uses explosives at no risk to their operators? Israel is perfectly okay with killing innocent civilians, so there's not much to distinguish it besides it showing less resolve/desperation on their part.

  27. Re:Violence and Palestinians Muslims by alexkaskasoli · · Score: 3, Funny

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics" - Mark Twain

  28. Re:About frickin' time! by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

    I assume you're talking about the Israeli government?

    No, that would be Hamas. Their charter calls for the destruction of Israel.

    Or do they not count, because they actually are systematically wiping Palestine off the map, instead of just wanting it?

    There seems to be some defect in your understanding of genocide as the number of Palestinian Arabs has long been increasing. You also don't give credit where credit is due. The brother Arabs of the Palestinian Arabs told them to leave their homes and villages while they slaughtered the Jews in 1948. It didn't turn out that way, and now the other Arabs treat the Palestinian Arabs like scum.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  29. Screw the Israelis by msobkow · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    As far as I'm concerned, Israel is one of the most belligerent and violently oppressive regimes on the planet. I couldn't give two squirts of piss if they're "upset" about Palestine being properly named.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Screw the Israelis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I guess if someone attacks you for just existing you just might have a change of heart.

      Sorry, but you have to be more clear. Are you talking about Palestinians or the Jews?

      Abuse victims grow with great predictability into abusers.

      Psychology works on both the micro and the macro scale. And it's not acceptable on either end, not a forgivable excuse for brutalizing anybody or any nation.

      Israel is all grown up today and sadly, hasn't done the work necessary to heal, but has instead become a villain state, pouring out abuse on a powerless people, and just like sick abusive parents who attack their own children, they whine and complain about their own sorry experiences, blaming their victims for the very crimes they themselves commit.

      It's textbook.

  30. Re:About frickin' time! by ixuzus · · Score: 1

    That's a very simplistic view. Consider the situation where militants enter an area they don't like - such as the Christian quarter, fire their rocket and go home. An Israeli military response, be it firing back or occupation, at the source of the rocket is pretty much a win-win for them. This is not a hypothetical situation. It happened repeatedly and probably will again.

  31. Re:About frickin' time! by Clsid · · Score: 1

    I don't know why you guys defend one over the other. Both sides hate each other and have done outrageous things. It's like a fight between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

  32. Re:Violence and Palestinians Muslims by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 2

    Yup, having cruel, warmongering neighbors who like to murder children and indiscriminately level the shanty-infested `cities' tend to make people a bit resentful. That applies to both sides of this conflict.


    Also, do you keep this kopipe in a text file to post quickly? Also, are you in that JIDF program where they pay people to shitpost on websites with pro-Israel propoganda? I'm not accusing you, It's just the feeling that I'm getting.

  33. Re:About frickin' time! by PPH · · Score: 1

    Citation Needed.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  34. Bigoted Islamophobic Crap by Uberbah · · Score: 4, Informative

    Did you miss the news that it took the Israeli Supreme Court to (finally) protect female Jews from being harassed or arrested at the Western Wall by the Ultra Orthodox? How about opinion surveys of Americans on how it's acceptable to drone bomb the shit out of other countries?

    Beam, motes. And if you want to bitch about the problems of fundamentalist islam, start with the nearest mirror, as it's usually:

    1) In response to western imperialism. Yeah, you're pissed about the 911 attacks that killed 3,000. They're kinda pissed about American sanctions that killed 500,000 children in Iraq. And your overthrowing their secular democracy in Iran to be replaced by a brutal dictatorship from the Shah.

    2) Financed by client states like Saudi Arabia. You know, where the hijackers were from, but was never on our blow-shit-up list. Huh.

    3) Financed and supported by the CIA. The Mujahideen in Afghanistan, rebels in Libya and now Syria, and MEK in Iraq. Then there was that triffle of "buying" the services of young boys in Afghanistan to be raped by tribal warlords.

    It demonstrates conclusively that the Palestinian nationhood argument is the real strategic deception â" one geared to set up the destruction of Israel.

    Bullshit. The entirety of Israel is built on land stolen from the native population. First in 1948, when a bunch of immigrants from Europe decided they had a greater claim than those who had lived there for thousands of years. And then in 1967, when they started a war of territory expansion yet claimed to be the victims.

    ALL of the occupied territories ALL of the settlements and ALL of East Jerusalem are illegal.

    1. Re:Bigoted Islamophobic Crap by Velex · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. That is all.

      --
      Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
    2. Re:Bigoted Islamophobic Crap by Hatta · · Score: 1

      What exactly is that supposed to prove? The palestinian people are real, they exist in space time, and they are suffering at the hand of Israel. They deserve political self-determination. Either give them their own state, or make them citizens of Israel. What is happening now is an atrocity, no matter what the historical status of palestine is.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:Bigoted Islamophobic Crap by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      It proves exactly the opposite of what you said, that the palestinian people are NOT real, they do not exist, the entire claimed existence of such a people is openly admitted to be a political tool. Which is why the surrounding arab states do everything in their power to keep the "palestinians" in such poor conditions.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    4. Re:Bigoted Islamophobic Crap by Hatta · · Score: 1

      What exactly are you talking about? There are real human beings there. Who do you think keeps firing rockets?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:Bigoted Islamophobic Crap by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      Try actually reading the GGP.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    6. Re:Bigoted Islamophobic Crap by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I have. It makes no sense to me. There are actual palestinians (human beings living in the land referred to as palestine) that are suffering at the hands of Israel. Whether they exist as "a people" historically is irrelevant to pretty much anything.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    7. Re:Bigoted Islamophobic Crap by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

      That's like pointing and saying "B-b-but he's holding a knife!" and *completely ignoring* that the alleged victim just ran up behind the first person, slapped a knife into the first guy's hand, and then shouted "help!".

      At this point I'm pretty much convinced you're being deliberately disingenuous about the whole issue. If a bunch of canadians suddenly up and jumped the border into north dakota, invented the identity of "Dakotinians" from whole cloth, formed a government whose official charter calls for genocide, constantly and indiscriminately attacked canadian and american civilians, and started demanding a two-state solution we'd all agree they have no right to do anything but gtfo and go back to the country they came from. A bunch of Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese and Egyptians do it on the other hand...

      The utter non-existence of a historical "palestinian" people IS relevant to EVERYTHING because it forms the basis of the entire false-legitimacy of their argument.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  35. Re: You are Wrong! by Trepidity · · Score: 1

    I didn't realize the CIA defined international law. They might want to, though! ;-)

    Here is the UN's list of member states.

  36. THIS IS 100% MADE-UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I saw this posted around as a general trolling before. Never does anyone state actual sources. Let alone having been down there and observed things himself.

    I, for one, *was* down there. And both "sides" are bursting with good and kind people! Exactly as you'd expect it. Only some nutjobs who want to rule (religious "leaders", "governments" & co) spread such extremist shit. In essence saying all people down there are like he says, is like saying all Americans are like the WBC.

    Ridiculous bullshit...

  37. Israel never had a claim to legitimacy. by Uberbah · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's built on land stolen from the native population by a bunch of immigrants.

    But why let facts and history get in the way?

    Will you? Jews were less than 10% of the area population in 1900. When Zionists "declared independence" they were only 31% of the population, the vast majority just off the boat or first-generation. When they started the 1967 war and illegally seized the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, they settled the stolen land with....more immigrants.

    History and facts have a well known anti-Zionist bias.

    1. Re:Israel never had a claim to legitimacy. by Uberbah · · Score: 3, Informative

      I see you didn't even bother to watch the video

      You didn't bother to look at the link. Jews were a tiny minority in Palestine before European Jews started immigrating to the area around 1900, with a spike around WWII for obvious reasons. There is no legal or moral justification for immigrants carving a state out of the native population without the consent of said population. Period.

      Like I said, history and facts have a well-known anti-Zionist bias.

    2. Re:Israel never had a claim to legitimacy. by DaHat · · Score: 1

      Oh I did look at your stats... which if you'd watched the video would are irrelevant to the discussion that was being had there or here... until you derailed it.

      Like I said, talking with you is pointless as it is clear you've got a pretty big hate-filled mentality (a quick read of some of your more recent comments on this site confirm it).

      Get help.

    3. Re:Israel never had a claim to legitimacy. by Keybounce · · Score: 1

      Jews were less than 10% of the area population in 1900. When Zionists "declared independence" they were only 31% of the population...

      Ok, I am bleeping tired of this.

      Why do you look at 1900? What was the population in 1800? Or 1200? Or 3500 BCE?

      When you say that only 31% were this group of people, what about when a bunch of upstarts said that the British Colonies were no longer part of Britain? How many people were loyal british citizens, and how many were angry rebels that engaged in high treason?

      We celebrate high treason every year in this country, on the fourth of july, when we insisted that the old view of "country" was now wrong, and needed to change.

      At some point in the past, that idea, that concept, has happened everywhere (*) on this planet where people lived.

      So you seem to be saying that this idea, when applied in one spot by the United Nations after WW2, was in error, but every other time was valid?

      You are so biased that you really need to hear yourself.

      *: No citation or research done. Number pulled out of thin air based on limited observation over similar areas. Actual number is expected to be over 95%, but 100% cannot be tested nor verified. Use at own risk. May contain nuts.

  38. Re:About frickin' time! by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

    You need to read some history if that's what you think. Mark twain's trip is a particularly good account, the entire region was composed of malaria ridden swampland and ghost towns with the occasional temporary habitation by desert nomads. Multiple prominent leaders of the "palestinians" have admitted that the existence of any "palestinian" people is a complete and utter myth, invented solely as a political tool and populated by illegal immigrants from the surrounding arab nations. There are written accounts from governors who describe virtually their entire city's population sneaking into the british mandate to try and displace the jews.

    Even the persona of "Yasser Arafat" of the PLO is a myth, a false name used by the nephew of the Grand Mufti Al-Husseini because (at the time) anyone who knew his real name would have immediately recognized that he was doing nothing other than continuing the goals of his uncle's closest political ally: http://i.imgur.com/NZ5DGwk.jpg?1

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  39. Re:Violence and Palestinians Muslims by Velex · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Am I supposed to believe that these poll results distinguish Palestine or Muslims from the rest of humanity negatively somehow?

    Let me tell you, being transgendered, from over here all the Abrahamaic religions look pretty much the same and pretty much all equally morally bankrupt. Those survey results don't look much different from what I'd expect one would obtain by interviewing local Christians around here. Including things you've identified to attempt to make Islam look regressive by way of being misogynist. Christians around here believe the same things, although they have different clothing than hajibs they believe superstitious things about.

    Misogyny runs rampant in Abrahamaic religions. Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam just have different ways of expressing it. At least the one thing all three can agree on is that, drawing from the ancient Greek myth, that it must be a woman who's responsible for all the evils of the world.

    Guess what. Most of the world, at different times, has been ruled by different people. What do you think the native inhabitants of this continent [The Americas] might think about their Christian conquerors? At least, the ones that are left to speak.

    I'm going to get modded flamebait for this, but I honestly believe it, and I've got the karma to burn. Israel couldn't have done better to take plays out of feminism's playbook. They're always history's perpetual victims. They're always morally perfect. It's all completely bullshit. It's a passive-aggressive appeal to white, male, and German guilt.

    Israel has no right to exist. Yes, what happened during the holocaust was terrible, but the answer to evil isn't more evil.

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    Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
  40. Israel Propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Part of the problem is Israel got Palestinian government classified as terrorists, so we never hear there side. Only Israels extreme version of their side.

    You sir, disgust me, really. What Israel is doing is *actions* not words, and it results in a huge number of deaths each year.

    Disgusting murderers.

    1. Re:Israel Propaganda by daath93 · · Score: 1

      Lets start lobbing missiles at your family and see how you react.

    2. Re:Israel Propaganda by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I introduce you to that great invention of our age, the Internet. If you want to hear someone's side, just go there and look. Plenty of Palestinian videos on YouTube. Search for "Farfour" and watch some, then come back to us.

  41. Re:Violence and Palestinians Muslims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Many of the questions showed that Palestinian Muslims rated behind only Afghanistan, Iraq and sometimes a handful of others in their levels of fanaticism.

    Do you think it's a coincidence that all 3 of the countries you've listed are countries that have been fucked the hardest by more powerful countries? So, when someone invades their land, people get mad at them and become radicalized? Boy, what a fucking shock.

  42. Boundaries by Mystakaphoros · · Score: 1

    I looked up "Palestine" on Google Maps and still didn't see any of the boundaries determined. Could Google figure that one out for us too? I'm sure there's got to be an algorithm for that. (And before anybody says anything, yes, the word "algorithm" is derived from Arabic, so it might be biased.)

  43. Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by Uberbah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    News at 11.

    Ah, I see you are repeating the propaganda approach without actually understanding the history of the region with regard to International Law.

    Ah, I see you're spamming the "legal case for Israel" propaganda. Problem is, reality has a well-known anti-Zionist bias, and Israel has zero legal justification for it's formation or land grabs.

    First, it was formed by a bunch of immigrants stealing land from the people already living there. Jews were a tiny minority - less than 10% of the population - in 1900. The Zionists "declaring independence" in 1948 were almost entirely just off the boat or first generation immigrants.

    So, it's no different from Manifest Destiny: a sense of entitlement to other people's land.

    The Israelis have always offered an Arab Palestinian State

    That's always been slight-of-hand. Israel wants land, and peace gets in the way of their land-grabbing.

    and in fact, the Arabs were offered international recognition of one in 1948 by the United Nations but they refused

    And rightly so. The British Mandate of Palestine was going to give 56% of the land to 31% of the population, almost all of whom were immigrants. It's like if the minority Cuban immigrant population of Florida up and laid claim to most of the state - think the rest of the population might reject such a proposal?

    The problem the Israelis have with the moves for Palestinian Statehood through the United Nations is *not* the creation of a Palestinian State. It is bypassing negotiations with the Israelis and bypassing mutual agreement and a *permanent* peace treaty

    When did Zionists negotiate with Palestinians on the formation of Israel?

    Another poster already called you out for that nonsense, but such hypocrisy deserves to be highlighted again.

    for those of you who are also fooled by the falsehood that Israel is 'the last European colonial state' you may want to ponder the fact that Jews have been living continuously in the region of Palestine for over 3000 years

    Ah, the "continuing presence" propaganda. Again. So if the surrounding Arab nations were to militarily wipe Israel off the map - something you guys have been yelling about for decades - to form an independent Palestinian state, you'd be just fine with it it, right? Because Palestinians have had a "continuing presence" in the area? Like most Zionist propaganda, this talking point doesn't stand up to two seconds of scrutiny.

    Please also note that the Arabs and Muslims already have 56 large and mostly uncrowded countries.

    Did the fact that sub-Saharan African countries were majority-black mean Apartheid was okay? Two seconds of scrutiny...

    Israel is by no means perfect, but it does have a very good case under international law for doing what it is doing

    You mean the international law that has always held that ALL the occupied territories of the West Bank and East Jerusalem have always been illegal and should be returned to the Palestinians? That international law?

    Once you start learning the historical facts you kinda develop a completely different perspective on the issue.

    Feel free to do just that at any time.

    1. Re:Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by Patch86 · · Score: 2

      It also works in reverse, why don't the Palestinians negotiate for a settlement (and the answer I already gave: the Qur'an and hadiths command they commit genocide, but I guess you have a poor or no understanding of Islamic scripture, which is why you point the finger of blame in the wrong direction). In 1948 the UN offered two states, Israel accepted and the Arabs refused (believing their genocidal plan would be successful). The Israelis were prepared to negotiate, and have been prepared ever since to negotiate provided there are *no preconditions* (otherwise, what is the point of negotiating, yeah?).

      Complete ill informed nonsense. The official Palestinian position is that they will negotiate on two fairly innocuous conditions. 1) That Israel ceases the construction of illegal settlements on its land. 2) That the starting point for negotiations for a two state solution be based on the pre-1967 borders. The latter point was accepted by the United Nations in Resolution 58/292 (Israel and the United States were the only two major nations to vote against it, joined by four small island nations). The former point is accepted by all (including the United States).

      Israel refusing to freeze settlement building is a deliberate way of keeping negotiations off the table- Israel knows that there is no way any Palestinian group can negotiate with them under those circumstances, and that's the way the Israeli hard-right like it. And the 1967 border issue is considered by the international community to be a key component to making a viable Palestinian state- Israel refusing to consider it is the same as refusing to accept the possibility of a viable outcome of negotiations. The equivalent of haggling to buy a Ferrari and knowing that you're not willing to pay above $1000- it's entering the negotiations in bad faith.

      Many people on the Palestinian side like to throw bile and rhetoric around (and plenty more are willing to throw bombs); but unless something viable is offered to the Palestinian moderates, then there can be no good solution.

    2. Re:Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Jewish Zionist immigrants to Palestine weren't "stealing" land. They were paying for it.

    3. Re:Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      2) That the starting point for negotiations for a two state solution be based on the pre-1967 borders.

      The pre-1967 borders are pretty much the same as the indefensible 1948 borders. Why should negotiations start with this precondition? there is no legal nor moral basis for starting here. Why not start with the borders as they are after the last war in 1973? surely that is far more logical. It is this that the Israelis object to most strongly. In fact, but setting this precondition it is clear to prejudice the negotiations. Even Obama has finally realised that such a demand is nonsense (which is why he stopped saying it when he finally got around to visiting Israel).

      1) That Israel ceases the construction of illegal settlements on its land.

      Under International Law the land is in dispute - although around Jerusalem the Israelis make the case that re-united Jerusalem is their capital and they can build anywhere they want within its districts. No other nation is subject to interference by external meddling with regard to construction in their capital. Now, I personally don't agree with this, but that's how the Israeli's see it. With regard to building in Judea+Samaria/West Bank. The territory is in dispute. Before the Jews were ethnically cleansed from the area in 1948 there was territory held there. Now there have been cases of illegal seizures of land in the West Bank - there is legal recourse for this is many cases (although some injustices do remain, we can agree on that). It is clear the Israelis are taking advantage of the disputed status of the West Bank under international law to change the facts on the ground. Please also note that the Israelis did exactly as the Word asked of them and had a settlement freeze. Do you know what happened? nothing! that's right, Abbas did nothing because he wasn't interested in long term peace. As I say, go and see the statements made by the Palestinians in *Arabic*, they have *zero* interest in permanent peace and the Israelis now know it - too bad you don't do the homework so you too would understand the Palestinians position *in Arabic* when they talk to their own people. It is this ignorance that makes your statements false.

      The latter point was accepted by the United Nations in Resolution 58/292 (Israel and the United States were the only two major nations to vote against it, joined by four small island nations).

      You do know that the United Nations has become so corrupt that no one takes its resolutions seriously, yes? It is so bad that "paragons of human rights" countries like Saudi Arabia, Sudan (still practicing slavery!), Syria and North Korea are dominating the Human Rights Council. Only someone who is completely ignorant of the fact that the OIC (Organization of Islamic Conference) now has a 57 member voting bloc that can raise and force through any resolution it wants. The UN is a joke and only a fool things any of their resolutions past 1970 are worth much of a damn. Here's a little history on why the UN became so corrupt and is now working against Enlightenment values:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Mupoo1At8
      I guess the huge UN bias against Israel matches your political agenda perfectly, which is why you never even stop to consider whether you are being objective or not.

    4. Re:Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      You do know that the United Nations has become so corrupt that no one takes its resolutions seriously, yes? I ...

      I guess the huge UN bias against Israel matches your political agenda perfectly, which is why you never even stop to consider whether you are being objective or not.

      Right back at ya, in reverse. The UN isn't saying what you want them to say, so they must be corrupt.

      That resolution was voted against only by the US and Israel. Do you know what that means? It wasn't opposed by my country- the UK. My democratically elected government voted for it. The democratically elected governments of most democratic countries in the world supported it. In what way is this corrupt? Is it corrupt just because my government disagrees with your government? Is your government right, while mine is wrong?

      The UK government voted the way that I wanted them to vote, and the way that the majority of people in my country wanted them to vote. Hardly a pattern for "corruption".

    5. Re:Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      Well, for a start, I'm from New Zealand, not US. Therefore your assumption I'm from the US is false.

      Secondly, Britain has 87 working Sharia courts. The fact your country has these courts and doesn't understand the significance of them shows that the political leadership of the UK is hardly neutral (it clearly has a very left-leaning culture that is tolerant of the barbarism of Sharia; I guess you can't see this since you are already indoctrinated by it).

      Thirdly, you make the fallacy that because something is popular then it must be morally just. This is simply not the case. If you had watched the video I referred to in my previous post you would understand how the UN became fundamentally broken and is being used by the OIC to demonize Israel unfairly (in line with the Qur'anic doctrines the OIC follow that require destruction of all Jews in order to bring the End of the World in Islamic eschatology - see hadith 6981 in Sahih Muslim).

      Fourthly, the UN is corrupt not because it makes decisions I personally don't agree with, but because the basis for decision making is simply 'mob rule' - and the largest voting bloc just happens to be the OIC, which is why places like Iran and Sudan (still practicing slavery) get to accuse Israel of alleged 'human rights violations' for defending its citizens against the stated genocidal aims of its enemies (please go and read the Hamas Charter, it is horrific). The fact you still think the UN is working towards the principles it was founded on shows just how little you actually understand about the UN as it operates today. It is clear you didn't even look at the video I posted - instead wanted to spout your ignorant view of the UN without even checking the references I have presented. C'mon Patch86, I'm sure you can do better than that.

    6. Re:Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      I glanced at your video- but seeing as it was an anti-UN video by a group called "The Jerusalem Institute of Justice", I'm going to guess that there's a rather hefty dose of bias in that video. If you want to cite sources at me, at least cite reputable ones. There are plenty of legitimate investigative news sources out there- I'm sure at least one of them must agree with you, if true.

      OIC might be, as you claim, a powerful voting block. But unless you're claiming that it includes every nation in the world bar two, then you're still barking up the wrong conspiracy theory.

      I don't understand your comment about Sharia courts in the UK. If you know about the UK justice system, you'll know we have a category of body for non-systemic arbitration. Thousands of arbitration organisations exist, including private ones which get involved in union/employer disputes, in contract disputes, etc. These function essentially under contract law- you agree, under civil law, that you'll be bound by the arbiter's decision. As in all contract law, the contract is entirely superseded by other criminal and civil law; that is, if you think the contract infringes your legal rights, you can still take it to a proper court. The Sharia courts have slotted themselves into this bracket; they are entirely underneath, not instead of, real courts.

      Personally, I don't like the fact we have Sharia courts in the UK. As a big old atheist, I think it's wrong that people are allowing genuine legal grievances to be decided by their local holyman than by a real court. Further, I think they can be used to bully vulnerable people into not taking up real legal proceedings when they have suffered a genuine crime, which decreases access to the legal system to those who need it most. But I do see the point of them, all the same; they're for settling religious disputes in something which the laws of the land cares nothing about. They have an equivalent system in Christianity for the same purpose- Ecclesiastical Courts are run by both the Roman Catholics and the Anglicans.

    7. Re:Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 2

      I glanced at your video- but seeing as it was an anti-UN video by a group called "The Jerusalem Institute of Justice", I'm going to guess that there's a rather hefty dose of bias in that video

      It is a shame you flat-out refuse to look at the other point of view. I promise it is not hate speech. Yes, it is made by a group located in a particular city - although I didn't know that was a crime these days. The problem is, much of the mainstream media has pretty much aligned itself with Cultural Marxism, so will not show the whole story from the other point of view. That video I linked has historical information compacted into a brief time. So I ask that as a rational atheist (like me) you hold your nose long enough to watch it (it's short), as I believe you might learn something as to why the UN is the way it is. The video explains how a mixture of Cold War politics initiated by Cuba and OIC countries joined forces to use 'mob rule' to defeat the agenda of pro-liberty countries like the UK and US in the UN.

      OIC might be, as you claim, a powerful voting block. But unless you're claiming that it includes every nation in the world bar two, then you're still barking up the wrong conspiracy theory.

      I understand fully what you are saying. However it is the 'Red/Green' Alliance (leftist politicians and media) with Islamic supremacists who are currently dictating global discourse. This control means the discussion rarely considers alternate points of view. Your earlier statement is a prime example - you are already conditioned to exclude any evidence that may be counter to your view. I was once like that, but got trained as a scientist to not only not exclude counter-evidence to my existing view, but to actively seek it out. Hence, I follow the arguments made by Islam very very closely (which is why I can see how the Islamicists are exploiting Western tolerance and slowly, slowly changing the West to fit their intended goal).

      Many people are completely oblivious to the OIC. You see, the current narrative in the 'War on Terror' is that the Islamicist enemy of all Free People is Al Qaeda. It turns out Al Qaeda are a distraction. The real enemy is the OIC and their plans to slowly change the laws in the West. They have already attacked Free Speech through UN Resolution 16/18 (which Hiliary Clinton co-sponsored being the stupid and incompetant Secretary of State she was). When you first read it the resolution doesn't sound so bad, but when you think about the implications you can see that no-one who supports Free Speech and Freedom of Conscience can support it.

      Anyway, Stephen Coughlin and Frank Gaffney have made many excellent videos available on YouTube for you to see. The closest racist in you will be pleased to note that Stephen Coughlin is not from Jerusalem, and in fact was a Major delivering briefings to the Pentagon (before the Muslim Brotherhood supporters in the White House had him turfed out for telling the truth about Islam). Here's a video for you to start with that explains what the OIC is doing (if you love liberty and Enlightenment values this video should be of interest):
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkAZUvQAzkc
      He has many other excellent videos, showing how Islamic terrorism is not caused by "extremists" (the lie our media and politicians constantly try and fool us with), but is in fact mandated by Islamic Law. His videos are excellent because they bypass the filters and spin that Western commentators project onto Islamic thinking and talk *exclusively* from what Islamic doctrine intends for Muslims to understand (note the taqiyya, kitman, muruna and tawriya lies that are given to Westerners).

      I don't understand your comment about Sharia courts in the UK.

      Well, under Sharia is it not true that a women is worth half a man with regard to evidence? is it not true that men can get more than an equal share of inheritan

    8. Re:Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      Oops, typo, " I was once like that, but got trained as a scientist to not only not exclude counter-evidence to my existing view, but to actively seek it out."
      should instead read
      "I was once like that, but got trained as a scientist to not only not *include* counter-evidence to my existing view, but to actively seek it out."

      As you probably know, scientists get trained to look for counter evidence. The good scientists are better at doing this (vs. a few unethical scientists that go against their training).

    9. Re:Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      Well, under Sharia is it not true that a women is worth half a man with regard to evidence? is it not true that men can get more than an equal share of inheritance than a woman? is it not true that there is 'stealth polygamy' in Western countries as allowed under Sharia (the answer is yes, as recent studies have found out). Now you may not personally have a problem with this, but as a proponent of equality between men and women and Enlightenment values I do. Just because Sharia is not used in criminal cases (yet) does not mean that it should not be opposed. Sharia is antithetical to Enlightenment values - if you know anything about Sharia other than the name this would be obvious. The fact that the UK has already accepted Sharia on principle means the country doesn't really believe in standing up for *universal* human rights an Enlightenment values for *everyone* (no exceptions, not even if you are a women).

      You miss my point. I do not like Sharia courts. I think, to put it in very simple terms, they are a bad thing. However they have simply slotted themselves in to a perfectly acceptable pre-existing place in English law. The UK hasn't "accepted" them, per se- they've cropped up in a perfectly legitimate slot in our legal system, and we haven't as a nation gone out of our way to single them out for a specific banning. Seeing as the same legal slot is used by a number of other legitimate organisations (including as I said Christian church Ecclesiastical Courts, but also including while we're on the subject Jewish Beth Din courts), it would be impossible to ban them without singling them out for specific criticism; which would be quite an incendiary attack on a sizeable minority of our citizens. It also needs to be remembered that none of these courts can contradict or overrule the law of the land- being found innocent of a crime in a kangaroo court does not make you innocent of it in the eyes of the law, and any judgement it makes in a litigation matters are subject to tests of fairness and legality by the civil courts.

      You seem to have a lot of confused views about religion in general. Islam certainly has some violent tracts of nonsense in it (and as an atheist, you will find no hesitation from me in criticising it). But then so do all religions; these are things that were written in the Middle Ages at the latest, and the Bronze Age at the earliest, and those people had some screwed up notions by our modern standards. Take this chestnut from the Old Testament- Numbers 31:14-18- Moses' army has taken the women and children of their enemies captive, and he instructs them to kill every women who has slept with a man, kill every boy, and keep the remaining virginal women "for themselves". The overwhelming majority of modern Christians ignore these grizzly bits of nastiness, just as the overwhelming majority of Muslims ignore the grizzly bits of the Quran- it is only the hardliners who insist on interpreting these things literally, and those hardliners are what we usually call "extremists". It is unfortunately true that the Middle East is packed full of crazy dictators who would fall into this hardliner camp, but that has more to do with geopolitics than it does to do with religion.

      I have nothing against Israel. I don't have a problem with "zionism" necessarily. I don't see any reason why Israel shouldn't remain a happy and modern country right where it is. But I equally have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians; 4+ million people who also want autonomy and a country to call their own. I support a two state solution (as does Israel, officially), but I think that the hard-right politicians in Israel seem to be doing more to work against it than they do to work for it. Violent and vitriolic Hamas in Palestine are to blame too. I think that building settlements on occupied land is a bad thing. I think that bulldozing neighbourhoods is a bad thing. I also think that firing rockets into civilians (as Hamas is wont) is a bad thing too. I want everyone to stop doing bad things a

    10. Re:Propagandist pot searching for kettle.... by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      Now that you have outlined your position we are in reasonable agreement about many things. Thanks for elaborating.

      I'm sorry that you disagree with me. Calling me a "closet racist" seems a bit much just for holding geopolitical views that are not the same as yours. But then that is the quality of debate that you get when you discuss Middle Eastern politics on the internet...

      All I was pointing out was your statement indicated that if a video was made in Jerusalem then it couldn't contain any facts that would make it worth looking at. This is 'soft racism' and I wanted to bring your attention to it. I made the same mistake too in the past. I hope you have a think about it. Furthermore, I really really hope you take a couple of minutes to actually watch the video (please :)). I also highly recommend the following short (5 mins) video for moral people like yourself [produced in America]:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63hTOaRu7h4

      With regard to "extremists". The latest Pew survey that was released a few days ago show that 75% of Muslims do not believe in violent jihad. Great. Now what about the other 25% of the 1.5 BILLION Muslims in the World that do believe in violent jihad. I don't know how good your mathematics is but statistically 25% is not "extreme" in any way. It is fairly normal. Therefore, calling jihadis "extreme" is a falsehood. They represent a substantial fraction (1/4) of the Muslims in the World. If you whip out your calculator you will see that at least 400 MILLION people want to kill you or subjugate you to the Islamic political just because you are non-Muslim. See what I'm getting at here? it is a *huge* problem that the statistics make plain as day but the media and politicians don't want to address. *We* may not want to pick a fight but those 400 million jihadis (plus the non-violent financial supports from the rest of the Muslims) do. If we don't start seeing and talking about Islam as the totalitarian, theocratic, supremacist political *ideology* we are doomed. And it will be bye-bye to our tolerance and sexual equality and free speech and freedom of conscience etc etc Do you really want your country to be turned into another Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Iran? because the stated goal of Islam is *global domination* ("it is the will of Allah", after all). So please stop trying to equate Christianity and Judaism with Islam - they differ in a very fundamental way (the latter is politically active and extremely violent *today*). I get what you were trying to do in comparing them, but the reality trying to claim 'moral equivalence' between them merely diffuses the scrutiny and criticism that Islam should be put under by all moral people.

  44. Re:About frickin' time! by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    Looks like we need to add more facts for the uninformed:

    Hamas says still seeks Israel's destruction

    (Reuters) - The Palestinian Islamist group Hamas rejected on Monday criticism by al Qaeda's second-in-command and said it was still committed to Israel's destruction despite a power-sharing deal with the Fatah faction.

    "We will not betray promises we made to God to continue the path of Jihad and resistance until the liberation of Palestine, all of Palestine," Hamas said in a statement, in a clear reference to Israel as well as to the occupied West Bank. . . more

    Who Are the Real Nazis?

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  45. Re:About frickin' time! by Uberbah · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, that would be Hamas. Their charter calls for the destruction of Israel.

    And the Likud charter lays claim to the occupied territories and denies any Palestinian state. Funny how the Zionist apologists never talk about that. Or the inconvenient fact that Hamas was created by Israel to undermine Fatah.

    There seems to be some defect in your understanding of genocide as the number of Palestinian Arabs has long been increasing.

    There seems to be some willful obtuseness in your comment, as you're swapping out the elimination of a country with the elimination of a people.

    If you're outraged about the use of chemicals against "civilians," do you have any to spare?

    Depends, do you have any sense of proportion? How about when it's Israel violating the cease fire and then killing hundreds of Palestinians a la Cast Lead? How about the fact that even the IDF admits that the rockets are a psychological and not a military threat? Or the fact that an Israeli is more likely to be killed in a car accident with a bus - not car accidents overall but car accidents with buses - than by a Palestinian?

    It can't last forever since one of Hamas's basic goals is to destroy Israel.

    And who created Hamas again? And the Likud Charter, again?

    Who Are the Real Nazis?

    By the racist Jonah Goldberg? More like Who Are the Real Shitbags.

  46. Re:About frickin' time! by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    While it is true that they and other Arab neighbors did cause some problems by deciding not to bow to the reality of the political situation then and agree with the two-state solution created by the UN back then

    The "reality of the situation" is that the proposal was to give 56% of the land to 31% of the population. And of that 31%, the vast majority were just off the boat from Europe. Of course the natives rejected such a deal, you would too.

  47. Re:About frickin' time! by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    Mark twain's trip is a particularly good account, the entire region was composed of malaria ridden swampland and ghost towns with the occasional temporary habitation by desert nomads. Multiple prominent leaders of the "palestinians" have admitted that the existence of any "palestinian" people is a complete and utter myth, invented solely as a political tool and populated by illegal immigrants from the surrounding arab nations.

    Riiiight. And I bet you switch from that denial of Palestinian history to the "continuing presence" canard to justify Zionist land grabbing with a straight face, don't you? You know, the one that pretends that 5% of the population means that a bunch of immigrants can come in and take all the land within 50 years?

  48. Re:Why worry about terrorism? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    An American is more likely to be killed by a car than by a terrorist, and yet for some reason the US spends countless billions of dollars trying to stop terrorism.

    Cars? Heck, bathtubs and home furniture are a greater risk to Americans than terrorism.

    Perhaps the psychological factors are important, and indescriminately targetting civilians with military hardware is not as harmless as you seem to think?

    Not really, when you look at the real underlying motivations. In Israel, it's to forestall any real peace process because any real peace would involve them returning illegal settlements. In America, the underlying motivation is profit. Those porno scanners and hellfire-equipped drones make someone a pretty penny.

    That someone just isn't you or me.

  49. Re: So they're more religious... by prefect42 · · Score: 1

    There are no atheists in the trenches.

    --

    jh

  50. Re:About frickin' time! by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

    If by continuing presence you mean the fact that the jews are the only group to maintain any significant and continuous permanent habitation of the region for the last three thousand years then yes that's also part of what I'd mention, although it's neither a "land grab" nor a canard.

    Your arguments on the other hand fit that definition handily, and your reference to the specious "canaanite" canard in another comment is a pretty clear giveaway that you're just here to shill for these guys: http://i.imgur.com/fVa0Nxq.jpg

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  51. Who's deluded? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    1967 was an offensive war? YOU ARE DELUDED.

    Israel launched a sneak attack on the Egyptian Air Force in 1967, supposedly because Egypt blockaded the Straits of Tiran, an important shipping route to Israel.

    This presents a bit of a quandry for Zionist apologists: if that was a justified action, than all attacks from Hamas on Israel are justified in response to the total blockade of Gaza.

    Your 500K children killed is a myth.

    Hardly. Madeline Albrecht is even on record saying it was worth it.

    How many Kurds did Saddam use mustard gas on? (Hint:>500K)

    How bad does that zombie canard smell? It was bad enough when Bushies were using it in 2003. How many people Saddam had killed does what to justify the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children? Unless you were an Iraqi citizen of the time, how were your elected representatives engaged in said attacks?

    Yes, everyone else is innocent in the world except the CIA.

    Moranic wingnut deflection is moranic. But since you went there, the CIA have a proud history of being some of the biggest assholes on the planet. Now, before you get all butthurt and vomit up some other zombie winger canard (torture and rape rooms?), go ahead and tell us how many democracies Saddam had overthrown during his time in power compared to the CIA.

  52. Re:About frickin' time! by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    If by continuing presence you mean the fact that the jews are the only group to maintain any significant and continuous permanent habitation of the region for the last three thousand years then yes that's also part of what I'd mention, although it's neither a "land grab" nor a canard.

    So yes, you will brazenly engage in hypocrisy with a straight face.

    Your arguments on the other hand fit that definition handily, and your reference to the specious "canaanite" canard in another comment is a pretty clear giveaway that you're just here to shill for these guys: http://i.imgur.com/fVa0Nxq.jpg

    Awww, did someone get butthurt that another canard went up in flames, so you had to try and project your racist shitbaggery onto someone else? Has that ever worked for you in the past? In any case, say hi to Francisco Pizarro and Bull Connor on your way into hell.

  53. Re:Cherry picking madman. by boundary · · Score: 1

    Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

  54. Re:About frickin' time! by amorsen · · Score: 1

    The "reality of the situation" is that the proposal was to give 56% of the land to 31% of the population.

    56% does not really tell the whole story either. It is not the American Mid-West, where one plot of land is just about as good as any other plot of land (and now I'll probably get someone from the Mid-West telling me it isn't like that there either. Sorry.)

    The 56% awarded to Israel is better land than the 44% given to the Palestinian reservations, and that divide has only increased as Israel has occupied more land.

    --
    Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
  55. Re:About frickin' time! by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

    Or the inconvenient fact that Hamas was created by Israel to undermine Fatah.

    I think you'll find the truly inconvenient fact to be that your claim is wrong, a misreading of the facts. The facts are more subtle, and it is more a study in the law of unintended consequences. And please don't bother throwing this back at me from the article below since it will show you apparently either didn't read the article, comprehend the article, or both: ""Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. " That sentence from the article is more hyperbole than fact.

    This is more informative:

    How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas

    When Israel first encountered Islamists in Gaza in the 1970s and '80s, they seemed focused on studying the Quran, not on confrontation with Israel. The Israeli government officially recognized a precursor to Hamas called Mujama Al-Islamiya, registering the group as a charity. It allowed Mujama members to set up an Islamic university and build mosques, clubs and schools. Crucially, Israel often stood aside when the Islamists and their secular left-wing Palestinian rivals battled, sometimes violently, for influence in both Gaza and the West Bank.

    "When I look back at the chain of events I think we made a mistake," says David Hacham, who worked in Gaza in the late 1980s and early '90s as an Arab-affairs expert in the Israeli military. "But at the time nobody thought about the possible results."

    Israeli officials who served in Gaza disagree on how much their own actions may have contributed to the rise of Hamas. They blame the group's recent ascent on outsiders, primarily Iran. This view is shared by the Israeli government. "Hamas in Gaza was built by Iran as a foundation for power, and is backed through funding, through training and through the provision of advanced weapons," Mr. Olmert said last Saturday. Hamas has denied receiving military assistance from Iran.

    Arieh Spitzen, the former head of the Israeli military's Department of Palestinian Affairs, says that even if Israel had tried to stop the Islamists sooner, he doubts it could have done much to curb political Islam, a movement that was spreading across the Muslim world. He says attempts to stop it are akin to trying to change the internal rhythms of nature: "It is like saying: 'I will kill all the mosquitoes.' But then you get even worse insects that will kill you...You break the balance. You kill Hamas you might get al Qaeda."

    --------

    And the Likud charter lays claim to the occupied territories and denies any Palestinian state. Funny how the Zionist apologists never talk about that.

    I take it then that you must be truly baffled by the fact that successive Likud Prime Ministers have ceded territory to the Palestinians, including withdrawing from Gaza? How is that possible if the charter is as you say? Perhaps there are subtleties to Israeli politics unaccounted for by the claims you post? Will you be including notice of the Likud concessions of territory in future posts about the Likud charter?

    Likud

    The third Likud premier was Benjamin Netanyahu, elected in May 1996, . . .

    In 1998, Netanyahu reluctantly agreed to cede territory in the Wye River Memorandum. . . .

    . . . early elections for Prime Minister were called for March 2001. Surprisingly, Netanyahu declined to be the Likud candidate for Prime Minister, meaning that the fourth Likud premier would be Ariel Sharon. Sharon, unlike past Likud leaders, had been raised in a Labour Zionist environment and had long been seen as something of a maverick. In the face of the Second Intifada, Sharon pursued a varied set of policies, many of which were controversial even within the Likud. T

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  56. Re: So they're more religious... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    There are no atheists in the trenches.

    Nothing could possibly convince me more firmly of the nonexistence of god or gods than being sent to war.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  57. Re:Violence and Palestinians Muslims by Hatta · · Score: 1

    Select results from a new Pew survey of Muslims worldwide show that Palestinian Muslims are among the most "religiously conservative" and intolerant of all Muslim-majority countries.

    Given their experiences with western democracies, I can hardly blame them. The right way to get these people to open up is to show them the benefits of democracy.

    Those who pretend that a "one state solution" would respect the rights of a Jewish minority are knowingly lying

    This is what constitutional guarantees are for.

    Furthermore, never in history has there ever been a single Jewish suicide bomber.

    They don't need suicide bombers. The state of Israel is more than willing to do the killing itself.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  58. Re: So they're more religious... by prefect42 · · Score: 1

    Oh don't get me wrong, I'm no different. But looking at religious behaviours in contended and violent regions is, in my own opinion, quite difficult to analyse. It might make you think that religious fanatics went to war in WW1 for example.

    --

    jh

  59. Violence and Palestinian Muslims by plastick · · Score: 1

    Since my post was censored (because Muslim extremists and Leftists are afraid of the truth and can't debate - so they remove my post), I have reposted my thread. "F*** the Jews", "Israel has no right to exist", and racial slurs against Jews seems to be totally fine to say here, but not this? Unbelievable and sickening. What's wrong Slashdot? Can't debate the facts? So censor me? I had a 5 mod "Informative"!

    Posted on Friday May 03, 2013 @08:38PM
    ---
    Select results from a new Pew survey of Muslims worldwide show that Palestinian Muslims are among the most "religiously conservative" and intolerant of all Muslim-majority countries.

    Many of the questions showed that Palestinian Muslims rated behind only Afghanistan, Iraq and sometimes a handful of others in their levels of fanaticism.

    Here are some of the survey questions with how Palestinian Muslims answered:

    Please tell me if you completely agree, mostly agree, mostly disagree, or completely disagree with this statement: Members of your religion have a duty to try and convert others to your religious faith.
    "Completely" or "mostly" agree 82%

    Some people think that if a man engages in premarital sex or adultery it is justified for family members to end his life in order to protect the family honor. Do you personally feel that this practice is:
    Often or sometimes justified: 33%

    Some people think that if a woman engages in premarital sex or adultery it is justified for family members to end her life in order to protect the family honor. Do you personally feel that this practice is:
    Often or sometimes justified: 37%

    Which comes closer to your views? "Islam is the one true faith leading to eternal life in heaven" or "Many religions can lead to eternal life in heaven"?
    Statement #1 89%

    "Women should have the right to decide if they wear a veil" 53%
    "Women should not have the right to decide whether to wear a veil" 35%

    "Sharia law is the revealed word of God" 75%
    "Sharia law is developed by men, based on the word of God" 16%

    "Sharia law should be open to multiple interpretations" 42%
    "There is only one, true understanding of sharia law?" 51%

    Do you ever participate in inter-faith religious groups, classes, or meetings with Christians or not?
    Yes 8% No 91%

    "A wife should have the right to divorce her husband" 33%
    "A wife should not have the right to divorce her husband" 57%

    Agree or disagree? "A wife must always obey her husband"
    87% "completely" or "mostly" agree (46%, 41%)

    "Do you favor or oppose making sharia law, or Islamic law, the official law of the land in our country?"
    89% favor 8% oppose

    For those who answered "favor" - should Sharia apply to non-Muslims?
    39% yes 43% Muslims only

    "Who should have a greater right to parents’ inheritance – sons or daughters, or should both have equal rights?"
    Sons 51% Daughter 1% Equal 43%

    Is polygamy morally acceptable?
    Yes - 48% No - 20% Not a moral issue - 17%

    Is drinking alcohol morally acceptable?
    Yes - 1% No - 92%

    Is homosexual behavior morally acceptable?
    Yes - 1% No - 89% Not a moral issue - 5%

    Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets are justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies... Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is:
    Often or somewhat justified 40% Rarely or never justified 49% (highest percentages justifying suicide attacks of all countries surveyed)

    Do you favor or oppose the following: the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim religion?
    Favor - 62% Oppose - 29%

    Do you favor or oppose the following: punishments like whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery?
    Favor - 72% Oppose - 23% (behind only Pakistan, Afghanistan and Niger)

    Do you favor or oppose the following: stoning people who commit adultery?
    Favor - 81% Opp

  60. Re:About frickin' time! by PPH · · Score: 1

    Fine. But how does moving Jewish settlers into the land help out with that scenario?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  61. Re:About frickin' time! by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 1

    Actually that would be you that's engaging in bald faced lying and hypocrisy with at this point a blatantly obvious troll face. I mean you don't get much more openly absurd than calling historical documentation of the Grand Mufti's alliance with Hitler, and his Nephew's continuation of their shared goal under the false name Yasser Arafat "racist shitbaggery".

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  62. Re:The JEWS are the problem... by neminem · · Score: 1

    Normally that would just be obvious trolling, but here it's actually relevant, so I will comment: it's not the "Jews" that are the problem, merely the hardline Israeli nationalists, anymore than all "Muslims" are a problem, rather than just the extremist terrorist groups. Both sides are a problem; both sides *claim* to be representing a much larger, much more diverse, and generally much more moderate population, but don't actually represent them very well.