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Sleep Deprivation Lowers School Achievement In Children

New submitter josedu writes:"Sleep deprivation is a great, hidden problem that afflicts a great percentage of children in affluent countries. About 73% of 9- and 10-year-old children in the U.S. are sleep deprived, as are 80% of 13- and 14-year-olds. The new study thinks this is linked to the increased access to devices such as mobile phones and laptops late at night. One of the researchers put it very simply: 'Our data show that across countries internationally, on average, children who have more sleep achieve higher in maths, science and reading.' This disruption is also causing schools to dumb-down their instruction to accomodate the reduced capacity of these kids. Thus, even the kids who are getting enough sleep will suffer. The long-term impact of sleep deprivation on nationwide education levels is enormous."

51 of 272 comments (clear)

  1. Let me be the first to say... by chinton · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Duh!

    1. Re:Let me be the first to say... by cod3r_ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except they blame devices instead of the schools for having to start classes at 8am on the dot. Why not start them later at like 930 or 10. I hated waking up for school so freakin early.

    2. Re:Let me be the first to say... by chinton · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then go to sleep earlier...

    3. Re:Let me be the first to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure circadian rhythms don't work like that.

      here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Biological_clock_human.svg

    4. Re:Let me be the first to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Also this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

      I tried my best to go to bed earlier. I just ended up tossing and turning in bed until midnight for weeks on end. Only thing that helped me is melatonin.

    5. Re:Let me be the first to say... by chinton · · Score: 2, Funny

      Apparently my son has a /. account and just modded me 'Troll'.

    6. Re:Let me be the first to say... by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

      It's not "duh" though, adults grossly underestimate the amount of sleep kids need, starting at about age 1 all way through age 25. I tell people my 2 year old goes to be at 7:30PM and wakes up at 7:00AM, then has a 2 hours nap. I've gotten everything from incredulous stares to accusations that I'm somehow a bad parent for letting my kid sleep that much. Very, very rarely do people say anything positive about it. Never mind the fact that all the research points to kids 1-3 years old needing 12-14 hours of sleep per day. That number starts to gradually drop at age 3 until it hits about 8-9 hours, then puberty hits and the recommended sleep goes back up (and the circadian rhythm shifts to a sleep late wake up late schedule that our schools ignore).

      The take away shouldn't be kids that sleep more do better, it should be that sleep is fucking important and as parents it's up to you to make sure your kid gets it.

    7. Re:Let me be the first to say... by suutar · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not to mention the natural wake/sleep cycle changes as you age. Adolescence tends to shift the natural wake-up time back by a couple of hours. Yes, teenagers wanting to sleep in later than preadolescents (and stay up later) seems to have a biological basis. http://kidshealth.org/teen/your_body/take_care/how_much_sleep.html

    8. Re:Let me be the first to say... by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 2

      I tell people my 2 year old goes to be at 7:30PM and wakes up at 7:00AM, then has a 2 hours nap. I've gotten everything from incredulous stares to accusations that I'm somehow a bad parent for letting my kid sleep that much

      Same here - Lights out at 7:30 and a big nap in the afternoon, Although my 2 year old boy seems to be ready to get up at 6am most mornings.

      I think the reason you (we) get stares is parents have to adjust their lifestyles if they want their kids to get enough sleep, and they're not keen on that. I see people hauling their exhausted kids around at 9pm and I'm like "What the hell?"

    9. Re:Let me be the first to say... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      Except your body won't stay on NYC time. It'll align itself with the sunlight hours you're now experiencing in LA. If you're a night owl in NYC, you'll be a night owl in LA, after that period of adjustment known as "jet lag". That's what jet lag is, you know, when your body's rhythms are trying to cope with having daytime suddenly shifted several hours on it.

    10. Re: Let me be the first to say... by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Sorry boss, I like to stay up late"?

      It's not a problem for you, so it's not a problem? This may come as an amazing shock to you but not everyone can sleep at will. Not everyone can choose when to sleep. Going to be earlier for you lets you go to sleep earlier? Great for you. Not everyone is exactly like you.

      Quite a few people are at the mercy of their circadian rhythms, and nothing short of addictive sleep aids will cause them to fall asleep earlier. Youcan, of course, always set the alarm earlier. Thus a big problem with sleep deprivation.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    11. Re:Let me be the first to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apparently my son has a /. account and just modded me 'Troll'.

      Of course, that must be what happened. The fact that you smugly oversimplified a complex, nuanced issue in order to dismiss it and those adversely affected by it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

      You remind me of certain extreme right-wingers who think the poor should just "get off their lazy asses", as if poverty was that simple.

      Not everyone is "wired" to be a morning person. They are not naturally that way, but they find themselves in a world run by those who are. They go against their own nature trying to adapt to the world. It should surprise no one that this has a cost. The people surprised by this are people like you who think everybody is either just like themselves, or somehow defective. Expecting everybody to naturally be a morning person is like expecting every person on the Internet to be a telecommunications expert. It's inconsistent with observable reality.

      What you are doing is like trying to force-fit a square peg into a round hole. When it doesn't work as well as you hoped, you are then telling the peg it's doing something wrong. That's why you are being smug or if you like, self-centered - I am not trying to name-call or hurl insults, it's just that what you are doing has a name. It's this black-and-white view of yours that was correctly recognized as "Troll". No one is accusing you of intentionally trolling, it's just the closest moderation fitting your post.

      Unfortunatley you are now considered "insightful" by the more numerous small-minded mods who share your black-and-white view of how everyone else should be.

    12. Re:Let me be the first to say... by ebno-10db · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I tried my best to go to bed earlier.

      Same here. My pet peeve is how morning people are often so sanctimonious about their preferred schedules, as though working at 7AM is somehow more virtuous than working at 7PM. Personally I think we should put all the morning people on the other side of the planet so they stop bothering us (bonus points if you force them to attend conference calls in the middle of their night).

    13. Re:Let me be the first to say... by stephanruby · · Score: 2

      No, blame the schools because they let out the kids out at 4 PM.

      If schools let them out at 1 PM instead of 4 PM, then cartoon time and prime time can be moved forward 3 hours, and then little school children everywhere could go to bed at 8 PM instead of 11 PM, and nobody would be having this problem of not enough sleep.

    14. Re:Let me be the first to say... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      It's not hard because it's what you're used to.

      No, it is not hard because you are you. People that are not you, or even you later in your life, may have great difficulty doing it. When I was in my twenties, I would be asleep in five minutes, and would nearly always sleep soundly through the night. I am decades older now, and usually wake several times during the night, and often take an hour or more to get back to sleep. Don't assume everyone is like you. Different people have vastly different sleep patterns, and even the same person can have vastly different patterns during different phases of their life.

    15. Re:Let me be the first to say... by AdamThor · · Score: 2

      Try This:
      http://stereopsis.com/flux/

      Super cool app to change the color temp of your computer screen automatically toward red in the evening so that you can go to sleep. I run it and I normally don't even notice it in action. As it gets dark outside the colors still look correct. But I don't feel like my eyes get burned by the computer at night.

      It's way cool.

      --
      -- "Oh. This guy again."
    16. Re:Let me be the first to say... by Skrapion · · Score: 2

      Seriously?

      Okay, here's what you were thinking:

      "Duh! Obviously sleep deprivation is bad for children!"

      But here's the full implication of your response:

      "Duh! Anybody who doesn't know that 73% of 9-10 year olds and 80% of 13-14 year olds in the US are sleep deprived is a moron."

      Measurements are important. That's what science is all about.

      --
      The details are trivial and useless; The reasons, as always, purely human ones.
    17. Re: Let me be the first to say... by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      It's not a problem for you, so it's not a problem?

      That's pretty much the unofficial motto of slashdot isn't it?

      "I've got a really well paid job, nice big house, a couple of cars, a great family, wonderful friends and a cock like a rolling pin. If you're poor, uneducated and unhappy, it's because you're a big fat loser".

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    18. Re:Let me be the first to say... by tehcyder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure it's so parents have time to drop off their kids at school on the way to work.

      Parents should not be taking their kids to school after the age of about 4 or 5.

      It is one of the most ridiculous things to have happened during my lifetime. Kids should walk, cycle or get a bus (depending on distance). There is absolutely no advantage whatsoever in parents driving their kids to school. It makes the kids physically lazy and infantilises them. They have no freedom to play with friends on the way to school, or hang around afterwards talking, or explore on their own.

      It's all part of society's destruction of childhood. Children go from toddler straight to whining entitled adolescent.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  2. Weird... by Arkh89 · · Score: 2

    So at some point before graduate school it turns the other way around...

  3. Ambient noise by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd wager ambient urban noise levels have increased tremendously over the last while as well. Given increasingly shoddy construction, antisocial behaviour from the party set and general vehicular activity you'd have to be living in a rural area to get a decent night's sleep in most places. It's a very serious business with major health implications for children and adults.

    1. Re:Ambient noise by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

      Nature doesn't have cars with subwoofers, harley-davidson bikes and idiots using streets as racing tracks.

    2. Re:Ambient noise by ebno-10db · · Score: 2

      The artificial engine noise is only useful up to 5 or 10 mph. After that tire and wind noise are greater than engine noise.

  4. Re:So? Public schools are garbage. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Did you even read the summary? Kids are getting dumber because of social/cultural/technological/material reasons. The schools are getting dumber to accommodate the kids who are getting dumber, and the problem is a downward self-propagating spiral.

  5. Wow, I'm impressed. by seebs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They managed to reproduce results fifteen or twenty years, and offer a stupid interpretation. Not bad!

    The sleep-deprivation thing is well known, and not new. However, there's nothing tying it to "mobile devices". Rather, there's strong evidence that teenagers tend to have a circadian rhythm which favors being up later and not getting up that early. Schools have historically shoved their schedules extra-early so that extracurricular events like sports can occur before the sun goes down, but after school. Last time I heard about this, a school district had tried simply moving the high school day an hour later, and gotten a very noticable improvement in basically every measure of achievement available to them.

    Now that I'm an adult, I sleep until I feel like getting up, and if I'm up a bit late, fine. I pretty much wake up between 11 and noon, and I work "late" most nights... But I get a heck of a lot more done, and a lot better, than I did when I was trying to work 9-5.

    --
    My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    1. Re:Wow, I'm impressed. by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Schools have historically shoved their schedules extra-early so that extracurricular events like sports can occur before the sun goes down, but after school.

      Solution, abolish sports. You go to school to learn. You can play with your balls on your own time.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  6. duh research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    while it might be "duh", government agencies, et al, won't respond to anecdotal stories about the effects of sleep deprivation. They need data to back it.

    There are many other "duh" topics, but no one ever bothers to actually study it. And for the ones who do, regular folks aren't surprised at the answer and wonder why the govt. is funding such "obvious" research.

    Well, analyzing "duh" data is tedious. And hard to do without preconceived bias.

    1. Re:duh research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are many other "duh" topics, but no one ever bothers to actually study it. And for the ones who do, regular folks aren't surprised at the answer and wonder why the govt. is funding such "obvious" research.

      What *I* wonder is why the gov't doesn't err on the side of "duh, this probably is true, let's account for that in our planning".

      If you want to actually fix this situation, wrest control away from the morning-people who set the school schedules. Not everyone actually wants to get up shortly after dawn, for many people this is simply unnatural and goes against their own sleep rhythm, but everyone is forced to do this by various schools and employers.

      When you are not naturally a morning person, you have great difficulty going to bed early enough to get adequate sleep because you simply don't feel tired at all early in the evening. It would be like asking an early riser to be awake and alert at 2 in the morning. They could make themselves do that, but it will predictably hurt their performance. Speaking of "duh", I got one for you: when you force people by authority to do something that is quite unnatural for them, they won't perform as well as when you work *with* their nature instead of against it.

      You could address the problem from the other end of the candle by taking a hard look at the amount of homework assigned to students, which is sometimes hours a day, and eliminating any of it that is not strictly necessary. The default standpoint should be that a lot of homework means the teachers failed to transmit the information during the 7-8 hours per day the students were with them, unless there is good reason to believe otherwise.

    2. Re:duh research by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sorry, what Government Agency needs to pay attention to this and what should they do about it?

      Answer: None.

      The only reason 9 and 10 year old children are sleep deprived is because of dumb shit parents who don't give a fuck about their kids.

      And the only people who can do anything about it is the dumb shit parents.

      The only reason 9 and 10 year old children are sleep deprived is because of dumb shit parents who don't give a fuck about their kids.

      And the only people who can do anything about it is the dumb shit parents.

      Thank GOD we have someone here who knows the answer and no doubt or exceptions!

      I'm intrigued that you know everything - do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

      So first, Every sleep child is apparently allowed to stay up as late as he or she wants because those parents don't "give a fuck"?

      Not a single school aged child has ever had to staye up late because a parent was out working and they had to baby sit. I babysat my little sister while my parents were working late. Making ends meet. Not because they didn't "give a fuck". Lot's of children get to do this. Not everything is as it was in the Brady Bunch.

      Even my son while in high school was a part of the generation that got homework dumped on them. sometimes he'd be up until 11 or 12 at night doing it. In your world we made him do that homework because4 we didn't "give a fuck".

      Kind sir, you are a person who only knows one answer and spouts it as if it is from God's lips to your ears, You are not anywhere near as smart as you think you are, you have a very narrow, and I suspect politically influnced viewpoint - although I doubt that you "give a fuck".

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    3. Re:duh research by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      while it might be "duh", government agencies, et al, won't respond to anecdotal stories about the effects of sleep deprivation. They need data to back it.

      There is plenty of data. This not even close to the first study that has reached the same conclusion. More sleep means more learning. Kids' sleep patterns are determined by daylight, so "going to bed early" doesn't work. What does work is shifting the school hours later in the day. The kids go to bed at the same time, but sleep extra in the morning. Schools that have done this not only have better test scores, but also have fewer pregnancies, less drug use, and fewer accidents. Kids are most likely to smoke pot and screw right after school, while their parents are still at work and the house is empty. When the school day is shifted later in the day, they don't have as much time for that. Citation (sorry about the pdf): Sleep, Safety, Drugs, Teen Pregnancy and other reasons to change school times

    4. Re:duh research by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      Citation (sorry about the pdf)

      Here is the same citation, but html: Early Morning Classes, Sleepy Students, and Risky Behavior.

      More citations are listed at the bottom of the article.

      Quick summary: Starting and ending the school day early is really dumb.

    5. Re:duh research by nine-times · · Score: 2

      Even my son while in high school was a part of the generation that got homework dumped on them. sometimes he'd be up until 11 or 12 at night doing it. In your world we made him do that homework because4 we didn't "give a fuck".

      One of many things I've never understood about highschool: Make teenagers wake up at 6am to get to school on time. Keep them in school until 3pm. Encourage them to go to football practice after school. Give them 5 hours of homework. Wonder why they fall asleep in class.

  7. Fuddy-duddy by primebase · · Score: 2

    I may seem like a fuddy-duddy to some other parents with the ~somewhat~ early (or at least not late) bedtimes we have established for our grade school aged kids during the week, but the further I go, the more I believe we're doing the right thing. I may not be able to control whether they get sick or not, or if they always eat all their veggies, but the one thing I CAN make sure of is that they always get a good night's sleep. And the older they get, the more important the benefits of being well rested are, considering the increasing academic rigor that comes with the higher grades. Considering how sleep deprived most kids are, they'll be Well Rested Supermen by the time they arrive at high school.

    And I've already tried to instill in them that all-nighters to cram for an exam are, without a doubt, absolutely counter-productive. Been there, done that - fell asleep during a Physics final. Staying up all night to try and learn a semester's worth of material simply doesn't work. If you haven't done the work all along and don't know the material before the final arrives, adding a serious level of fatigue won't help.

  8. Slashdot Theorem by jazman_777 · · Score: 2

    It's a Slashdot theorem that Technology Cannot Be The Problem. You may proceed, that is all.

    --
    Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    1. Re:Slashdot Theorem by compro01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When the problem predates the technology (or at least the wide adoption of the technology), it's pretty unlikely that the technology is the primary problem. It may be aggravating things, but the root cause is somewhere else.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    2. Re:Slashdot Theorem by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Alcohol is no solution, don't be ridiculous.

      Pay some attention in chemistry class, it's a distillate.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. My observations with my neighbors and friends with by Assmasher · · Score: 2

    ...kids, is that many parents don't put their kids to sleep the same way they did when I was a child (70's/80's.)

    My kids go to sleep between 7:30PM and 8:30PM depending upon their ages (ranging from 5-9.)

    At 9PM at night during the week I'll hear quite a lot of our neighbors' kids still playing outside, much less getting ready for bed.

    School starts VERY early here as well (kids have to be at school by 7:30AM.)

    Now, some of these kids who are staying up later are doing quite well in school, so who knows. It's just different from when I was a kid and it seemed to be a pervasive adult conspiracy to put all children to bed early...

    --
    Loading...
  10. Re:So? Public schools are garbage. by amiga3D · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The beauty of it is that they will grow up to have kids of their own and will do an even sorrier job of raising them than their parents did with them. It's like watching water flow down a drain. Thank God for immigration. Without it the US would be doomed. In particular the oriental immigrants seem to do well due no doubt to actually having a solid family oriented culture. Here in the US most kids seemed to be raised by electronic devices.

  11. Less Homework by captjc · · Score: 2

    It's easy to blame computers and cell phones, how about not giving out 5+ hours of homework a night? To make it worse most of it was busy work in addition to the nightly reading assignments. When you have 6+ classes per day with reading and assignments, that stuff adds up pretty quickly. In high school, I was lucky to get 4 hours a night.

    Even my heaviest college semesters weren't anywhere near as busy as my average high school week.

    --
    Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
    1. Re:Less Homework by captjc · · Score: 2

      Actually, I graduated in 2005 and my workload was not exaggerated. I was in all AP and College Prep classes and, ironically, I had a lighter workload than most of the general placement students who did nothing but repetitive worksheets that ask the same questions 50 times with slightly different phrasing.

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
    2. Re:Less Homework by ebno-10db · · Score: 2

      it's probably been a good 30 years since you were in high school. I just watched my niece graduate from a suburban US High school in a relatively affluent neighborhood - graduating in the top quintile of students. The homework load you suggest is greatly exaggerated

      You can't generalize that way. Schools vary enormously from place to place. I did graduate from high school more than 30 years ago, in the same basic area, and I can tell you that my daughter in the 4th grade has a lot more homework than when I was that age. The idea seems to be "more work is better, regardless of whether is ridiculously redundant busy work". My wife and I make sure my daughter always does it, but it's a pain. She constantly complains about it nonsensical busywork. What my wife and I can't do is admit that we agree with her.

    3. Re:Less Homework by Legion303 · · Score: 2

      "Judging by your archaic User ID,"

      An ID in the half-million range is "archaic" now? Shit!

    4. Re:Less Homework by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      My wife and I make sure my daughter always does it, but it's a pain. She constantly complains about it nonsensical busywork. What my wife and I can't do is admit that we agree with her.

      Why on earth not? Is there some problem with telling your kids the truth?

      Think about how you'd feel if you were in her position.

      And vast amounts of nonsensical busy work does not prepare you in any war for a good career. Nor does it help academic improvement in any way. A bit of drilling is good, but vast amounts of crap are simply depressing.

      She would be far, far better off doing something productive with that time.

      As a kid I basically did no homework. What little I did was usually done on the bus in the morning usually to a rather piss-poor standard. The only exception is that I stayed late a huge amount to hack on stuff in the school workshop because they had good tools. And I learned how to program in my copious spare time at home.

      Those are in fact two sets of skills which I have made considerable use of.

      I got a slightly nasty shock at uni, to put it mildly. However I did do the work then because it wasn't busy work, was important and was much more interesting. So apparently my complete lack of mindless drudgery after school did me no harm.

      By the way: your daughter already knows that it is pointless busy work. She is bright enough that is blindingly obvious. If you deny that, then she will know you're lying and will not respect you for it.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  12. Isn't this just a special case of... by DdJ · · Score: 2

    ..."sleep deprivation lowers all achievement in everyone"?

    Who's surprised?

    (Mind you, I'm all for conducting experiments to test things we all "know". I just don't usually expect to see those experiments classified as newsworthy.)

  13. Re:My observations with my neighbors and friends w by Nyder · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...kids, is that many parents don't put their kids to sleep the same way they did when I was a child (70's/80's.)

    My kids go to sleep between 7:30PM and 8:30PM depending upon their ages (ranging from 5-9.)

    At 9PM at night during the week I'll hear quite a lot of our neighbors' kids still playing outside, much less getting ready for bed.

    School starts VERY early here as well (kids have to be at school by 7:30AM.)

    Now, some of these kids who are staying up later are doing quite well in school, so who knows. It's just different from when I was a kid and it seemed to be a pervasive adult conspiracy to put all children to bed early...

    My parents made me go to bed at 7:30 till I was in middle school. It was evil. I didn't need that much sleep, and the sun was still shining most the time. It would take me hours to fall asleep. If that help my grades, I don't know. I was the kid who always had the "can't pay attention" in class. But later, in middle school and beyond, when I wasn't going to bed at 7:30 (it was then more 9-10ish) I got B+ grades without trying.

    --
    Be seeing you...
  14. Start School Later by mentil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The book 'the end of homework' explained this pretty well. Research has found that school starts an hour before children are typically awake. School starts so early so that there can be long afternoons of sports practice. Prioritizing learning over sports would thus lead to improved learning.

    I recall Junior year of high school. Biology and Geometry were my first two classes, and I would fall asleep during the latter due to late nights exploring the nascent Interweb. Late at night there are no parents nagging you, you can go to sleep whenever you want, it's quiet and you can think or do whatever you want. And, ya know, less sleep means more free time, of which high schoolers feel quickly slipping away as their homework load increases.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  15. Science by Murdoch5 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually I read once that teenagers are better "profiled" to perform during the mid day and hence they should really be sleeping much later at night and into the early morning, class for teenagers should be starting at noon not 9am. Well I'm not going to argue a good night sleep is important, it is very important, we need to be setting class times that revolve more around the natural clock of the body and not what works best for the adults. If science can show that 12 - 7pm works better for teenagers then I think we should move class times to work in that area. It would also be worth figuring out when the best natural class time is children, I have a problem when we base sleep patterns for the teachers rather then the students.

    This link from the BBC talks about it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7932950.stm

    So I think the solution, at least for teenagers is to move the class time back so they can best perform when biologically they're ready to.

  16. Blame The parents by grantspassalan · · Score: 2

    Common sense would tell anyone that it is parents fault for allowing their children to stay up all hours of the night. Simply confiscate all electronic devices at bedtime. It is the parents responsibility to raise their children, not the state.

    --
    A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
  17. Re:So? Public schools are garbage. by ebno-10db · · Score: 2

    The beauty of it is that they will grow up to have kids of their own and will do an even sorrier job of raising them than their parents did with them. It's like watching water flow down a drain.

    So each generation has been getting worse, and this has been going on since at least the days of Ancient Greece.

    I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint.

    -- Hesiod, 8th century BC

    Thank God for immigration. Without it the US would be doomed. In particular the oriental immigrants seem to do well due no doubt to actually having a solid family oriented culture.

    "Oriental"? Is this the 19th century?

    More pointedly, you have to love those positive stereotypes. Presumably you realize that every positive stereotype is just a counterpoint to a negative stereotype. Forget the stereotyping of native born Americans. People who would cringe at the mere hint of a negative stereotype of any other nation will happily embrace the most negative stereotypes of Americans, and parrot that the only virtuous people left in America are immigrants (which kind of makes you wonder why virtuous family oriented immigrants stay here). So, given that native born Americans are trash, what about the non-"Oriental" immigrants? Do Hispanic immigrants, for example, not have a solid family oriented culture?

  18. Re:Citation Needed by Wolvey · · Score: 2

    Many of the houses which were cheaply tossed up during the housing boom have incredibly poor sound dampening. The house I am in now was built in 2009 and doesn't even come close to my old 1971 block construction home. "I wish I had a house that wasn't built as quickly and cheaply as possible." - said the millions of buyers who realized that newer != better. Would you rather have antique solid wood furniture or a brand new!!! set from Ikea?

  19. Re:Uh by ebno-10db · · Score: 2

    Would love to see the sleep deprivation stats on college students...

    And medical students and residents.

    No, medical residents are super-human creatures. As such it's perfectly reasonable to have them perform surgery after not having slept for two days, while mere humans should get at least 8 hours of sleep before attending math class.