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Ask Slashdot: Wiring Home Furniture?
b1tbkt writes "So it seems that furniture manufacturers have not yet acknowledged the realities of modern life. Kitchen tables could benefit greatly from built-in concealable receptacles. Even more obvious is the need for electrical wiring in couches and coffee tables. I realize that there are safety (fire) concerns but as it stands most families that I know already have power cords for laptops, tables and phones draped over, under and through their couches at any given point. If someone wanted to wire their furniture with AC or some type of standardized LV DC system, what are some dangers to watch for and what, if any, specialized hardware exists for the purpose?"
Google "countertop pop up receptacle" and you'll find many choices.
The engineering problems that present themselves with wiring something that has mechanical components adjacent to or in direct connection to electrical wiring is protecting the cable from being damaged and heat generation. This can mean armored cables or flexible conduits, e-chain (for repetitive motion), or other cable management systems. If you are running any electricity though flammable materials then you need to be concerned about the amperage you pull through it and be mindful of how much it heats up as a regular and peak load. This is very important to be mindful of because a conductor may be rated for a certain amperage but at what temp? Make sure that temp is compatible with the rest of the construction materials involved in your furniture. A larger conductor would mean less heat as it passes an equivalent amount of current to a lower gauge of conductor.
...I think it's also known as a fuse.
Replace one of your current power receptacles with one that does USB also. Those should have GFCI and other good stuff built into them. Now wire those USBs into your furniture. If you want to charge your laptop, etc then plug it into a wall. Not worth sacrificing good chargers that get nice and hot for the slight convenience factor.
Quite frankly I don't see furniture manufacturers wanting to go through UL testing and all that jazz just to provide you with power you could get from an extension cord. Though USB power on a coffee table might be nice.
Do to the safety hazards law suits that stop all the fun, the reality is there is probably not going to be a jetsons reality that we will have furniture with wires connected to your couch seems a little silly when you think about it.
Please elaborate.
The hardware exists for office furniture - look up all the different connectors/docks/ you can get for desks and boardroom tables
like these: http://elsafe.com.au/?Itemid=8
Litigators in particular would find preinstallation of electrical wiring in living room furniture to be an impressive development in commerce. You'd probably get feature articles here.
Oddly I was just thinking the same thing yesterday. I am surprised somewhere like Ikea which tends to try to be forward looking hasn't come up with some integrated furniture yet with these capabilities. I know they are starting to sell tvs and stuff. Having access to ethernet and power ports in desks at work all day in most offices, its a bit jarring to find our furniture options for the home could mostly pass for stuff sold in the 18th century.
Why? Get off the couch and plug it in. It will be more expensive having the couch wired then buying the extension cords you need. What if there is some new cabling needed? New couch time?
There is a reason furniture doesn't have power cables running all through it.... FIRE. Just don't, please.
Please, carry on; the 2013 Darwin awards are fast upon us.
A few ideas:
Dangers:
+Spills - definitely use wet location hardware and wire. Also GFCI that shit.
+Tripping - it would be challenging to get power to the furniture if it is not against a wall. If you want a 15 amp outlet, you need a 15 amp cable going out there. And if you want to do it right your sending the ground too.
Specialized hardware:
There is lots of wet location hardware and wire out there. There is also tons of surface mount stuff to run wire. Again - GFCI.
Other idea:
You could potentially supply power to something using a male to male cord and then plugging it into one of the plugs on the piece of furniture. This would give your flexibility on where it can be plugged in (ie a movable power cord - you can switch which side of the couch or which table leg it is on). However you'd need dedicated plugs for this purpose if you want GFCI protection - your dedicated plugs would be on your line side and the protected plugs on the load side. Different outlet colours are available for this purpose.
You should feel bad for proffering it. /Moron
Cell phones, tablets, etc. take 5V DC from USB and draw no more than 2.5 watts (500ma).
That's not a lot of power, so it could be safe and convenient to run two devices from a 1 amp supply that's fused at the wall plug.
120V and 240V AC wall power is dangerous. It can provide 2500 watts - a THOUSAND times as much as a USB charger. You might screw up and it be okay, leading to nothing more than a startling shock, or it might kill you. Don't mess with it.
They've been making custom powered chairs in the US for a hundred years.
...I made a chair for my mother-in-law once. .. My wife wouldn't let me plug it in.
Have you not heard what electric chairs are used for?
I happen to work for a furniture store. This feature already exists in a lot of office furniture and, occasionally, in some living room furniture. You will find it more often in an end table because those are usually placed closer to a wall. You will only find it in sofas and chairs, once in a while, if the piece already contains a motorized reclining mechanism. Otherwise, it's just not a practical application to add to those pieces of furniture. Not many shoppers would pay an extra $100 to have a power outlet pre manufactured into their sofa when they can just plug their device directly into the wall, or get a cheap $6 power strip that will do the job. Also, it would not make sense to put these into a coffee table, because coffee tables are usually placed out in the middle of a room and you would have to run a cord across the floor to power the table. Furniture makers do not want to be sued for tripping hazards.
Look at a Plugmold or similar power strip, mount along the front of the couch. (Underneath, for aesthetic reasons.)
Something like this means you're not doing the wiring (if you were qualified, you'd just do it, rather than ask), all you need to do is the mechanical mounting (a few L brackets should do nicely).
Caveat: If you have small children about, this is putting outlets in their reach.
If you want something like this in a coffee table (or if your couch isn't against a wall), have an electrician install a floor outlet in an appropriate spot.
The college where I teach just renovated its science center. I'm very happy with the tabletop power we have in our new physics classroom, and I think the "lessons learned" apply to a kitchen too:
Don't do low-voltage DC. It'll never be the voltage you want, and plug standardization is a nightmare.
Don't put outlets on the top of the table. You'll spill, drop crumbs, and ruin the outlets.
Think about spilled liquids. A lot.
Make sure you can move the table to the other side of the room without cutting wires.
Our new physics lab classroom has long, heavy wooden "butcher block" tables with a top that overhangs the edge by an inch. The outlets are on the front edge of the table, protected from liquids by the overhang. The outlet boxes run to a heavy-duty cable with a male plug on the end: you plug the tables into a recessed floor box.
Hi, um, I'm a furniture manufacturer. I currently sell kitchen tables ranging in price from about a hundred to several thousand dollars each. My profit margin per unit is already on the order of a few cents to maybe a couple dollars (after all the sizable overhead I already have). Should I assume the millions upon millions of dollars in potential legal liability to give my customers something that NONE of my competitors is giving them (for this very reason,) or just continue making money hand over fist (on the volume) because people don't want to eat sitting on the floor, and periodically replace or update for style reasons, change in family size, or because they destroyed their old furniture during a rage (or rage-er) and have to buy all new dining room furniture?
Same question goes for living room furnishings.
Should I do all that just so you don't have to walk a couple feet to the wall where the outlet already is...?
Tough call. I'll get back to you on that. For now though, just assume until you see EVERYONE selling furniture with this idiotic feature, that no one will, and if you want you can always rig it up yourself, which is really what you should do if you're so very desperate to have your precious outlets.
Most Power Bars and some USB hubs already have notched holes to slide over screw heads. It's not uncommon to put them on the underside of desks in office/school environments, I would do the same for coffee tales and similar furniture. I would suggest having kid-safe versions in case you have a toddler with a fork however as people might not expect there to be overhead receptacles for the little rug-rats in those places.
Sofa - http://www.rothmanfurniture.com/221-11502-4.html
Coffee Tables - http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/13-high-tech-coffee-tables-for-the-geeks/
Kitchen Table - http://www.sligh.com/home-office-furniture/Westlake-74%22-Dual-Purpose-Electronically-Enabled-Dining-Table-300BA-300/577
Hotels have offered power outlets, network connections and (sometimes) usb connectors on desks and tables for years, now, both in rooms and in their lobbies. I don't remember seeing any on couches, but they often have easily accessible outlets in the wall, or on the floor. The last time I can remember having to get under a table to get to a socket in a hotel lobby was back in 2010. It's not exactly hard to do, you know, you just have to take the same precautions you'd use if you were putting a new outlet into the wall, and make sure your work is up to code.
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At the office, we've retrofitted a few conference tables with simple parts from Mockett . Pretty straightforward stuff - cut the proper holes, drop in the receptacles, and plug them in.
They are nothing new. Build one that actually works and it just might land you in one.
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I had started to babysit a wonderful dog for a friend. The dog liked to sit under my desk when I was working. One day, my Mini wouldn't boot. Dog toothmarks were evident on the low voltage (thank heavens) side of the power block, making it pretty easy to troubleshoot. As he got used to his new surroundings, no further wire chewing, but it could have been a disaster for all concerned. My animal house friends tell me rabbits are the worst, like frustrated EEs with buck teeth...
Anyway, think about animals, little kids, etc. when you're electrifying your furniture.
Some offices don't even bother with Ethernet cabling anymore; they just use WiFi. This was unheard of 15 years ago, when Slashdot users were no doubt grousing about their homebuilder's oversight for not incorporating Ethernet into their homes during construction.
I predict 15 years from now, the constant need to be tethered to A/C will be obviated, either through wireless recharging, through improved device charge capacity, or through increased energy efficiency.
Extension cords that run under a rug really will burn a house down. You also need to pay more for extension cords and stay away from discount stores for such items.
The thing about furniture is that its generic. Its not for you or your room or your precise purpose but for "someone" with "a room" that might want to do "something" with it.
That lack of specificity requires things be vague. Furthermore, there is an extreme emphasis on lowering initial cost as regards these sorts of things. And due to the way we manufacture things it is understood that after it has left the factor it won't be upgraded or changed or modified.
To get what you're talking about implemented you'd need to change the industrial relationship between the things we own, the people that produce them, and how we use them.
Where am I going with all this? We are entering a phase when the information revolution transforms the industrial revolution. Automation. Micro scale manufacturing. What we get from that is the feasibility of making things for YOU at a price you can afford. What we also get potentially is the ability to modify or alter things over time so that if our needs change we modify the article rather then simply discarding it.
Imagine if you could buy a generic house with generic furniture but over time build into everything you want without going broke. That's getting more and more reasonable.
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Seriously, we cannot even decide about what plug to use, let alone where to put that plug. There is literally nothing standard about any of these devices which you could build upon.
Is this any relation to the RElative Surge Inductive ShunT Operative Reactors with the 3 or 4-color bands on them?
Furniture moves around. They are not fixed. Ever been to an office where there are no cubicles? They need false floors to do the wiring to the desks a lot of the time or it comes out of the ceiling.
For an office false floors are a standard. For a house, they are not. That will add extra cost that most people rather spend on an extra room or paint or windows.
You will have perhaps 3 extra outlets and for that your new false floor will be too expensive.
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The tables in the reading and studying rooms of the ONB ( Austrian National Library ) all have power outlets concealed under their tops. The tables look like plain, solid wood to the casual stroller-by. Just reach to your left when sitting at one of the pre-indicated places, and you'll find one.
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In kitchens, you use wall-mounted power strips. In living rooms, you use extension cords and (if really necessary) outlets concealed in the floor. If you really want it attached to the furniture, mount a power strip under the sofa/chair/table.
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-Build it all on Minix 3; (so it never crashes and every device server has to be hacked seperately)
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Your agenda (GTK HTML5 webapp) knows when you need to wake up and plays your most listened song over Bluetooth to wake you up.But before that happens, the server gives the command to the coffee machine to warm up. All the lights switch on, to destroy the melatonin in your system. The Google self driving car parks in front of your house on time. Your phone tells you as a messenger not to forget your suitcase upon leaving the building. The climate control goes on standby and your tablet is preloaded with relevant presentations for the day. Slashdot articles are read to you in the traffic yam. Etcetera.
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"Even more obvious is the need for electrical wiring in couches and coffee tables."
How is that "obvious"?? I find the wiring in the walls, to outlets in the walls, quite sufficient. I do not actually see any "need" for electrical wiring in my couches and coffee tables at all, or at the least it certainly is not "obvious" to me, in fact it seems thoroughly counter-intuitive.
If it's such a great idea and no-ones making them, then do it yourself and get rich. I do think, however, that you'll soon realize that most couches are purchased by wives for reasons very different than utility... and the draping of the extension cords is done later by husbands thinking only of utility.
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Putting outlets in a kitchen table sounds like a good idea until you consider that this makes it far easier to eat while you are working. It is just a effective way of gaining weight! And quit taking food into your office!
Most of my friends have viable home laptops with no remaining battery of which to speak. And these were solid industrial models. Does that mean the whole thing should be thrown out and replaced?
No, it means they need to fork over the $ for a new battery which is normal for a laptop. Rechargable batteries only have a finite number of cycles in them and the ones in laptops typically show signs of wearing out after 2-3 years, less if the battery is used heavily. I've never seen one older than 3 years that held anywhere near the charge it did when new. Presuming the battery will last the lifetime of the computer is incorrect.
This is why batteries need to be serviceable. They do not need to be hot swappable or even modular for most people but if you plan to keep the computer for more than 2-3 years there is a high probability you should plan on a battery swap at some point. It's typically not hard to find a replacement, especially if the battery pack is modular. Sometimes you need to get out ye-olde-screwdriver (and occasionally a soldering iron) and crack the case open.
As I recall, in the Mythbusters experiment, the stream broke up after 12-24 inches or so. The "dog on couch" scenario, or "passed out drunk guy" might be within that distance.
Embed an inductive charging loop in the arm of your easy chair. Then set your cell phone on the arm of the chair while you are watching TV. Most Americans would have a fully charged cell phone at all times!!!
Most folks that think about this kind of stuff can do it themselves and would be disappointed with what furniture manufacturers think you want.
Instead of drilling lots of holes in your furniture, why not look at an inductive charging solution for phones? That would be much less obtrusive. For other devices the answers are going to depend totally on what kind of furniture you have, but in general it shouldn't be too hard to snake a laptop cord up through the bottom of a couch so it can be hidden under or behind a cushion.
Why is this news?
1) Buy a folding table and two modern power strips at your local office supply store.
2) Buy a package of zip cable ties or two. You'll need the longest thickest ties available.
3) Unfold the table.
4) Use the long, thick zip ties to attach a power strip to a leg on each end of the table.
5) Use more zip ties to secure the cord leading to the plug, if appropriate.
6) Alternatively, you can turn the table over and epoxy/screw/anchor power strips to the underside.
7) Alternatively, you can also turn the table upright and epoxy/screw/anchor the power strips to the top.
Didn't Nikola Tesla solve this problem back in 1901? Just scale it down for home use.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
and what, if any, specialized hardware exists for the purpose?
steel conduit and electrical boxes
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The electric chair has been in use for decades.
I'd say you don't see furniture makers adding these options for non-specialty furniture because of the following reasons:
1. Any deviation to standard reduces your market. A table is a table, but when you add in ports/outlets you have to pick a trim. Chrome/Wood/Black/Plastic/White... etc. If a table/chair has no extraneous colors/trim then it's a non-factor, but you will inevitably discourage some sales due to personal preference.
2. Safety concerns. A table/chair just needs to be a table/chair, but the instant you put wires/ports/plugs or even just places for plugs you open yourself up to liability. You've got to test your furniture (or have it certified for it to be carried by certain retailers) and you better have sufficient warning labels that your pre-drilled wire runs are ONLY for 12VDC or less. Of course, you and I both know that the 12VDC wire run will inevitably be run with 120VAC in some cases.
3. Electrical code restrictions. Sure there is a uniform code, but who knows if you've now created something that is unapproved in certain markets.
4. Logistics. You are complicating your design. Now, instead of just having to produce a table, you now have extra steps to install or cut boxes for the wires/ports, etc. If someone damages a plug, do you have to keep some spares to sell, or risk getting a bad reputation for not supporting your products.
And this is my BIG one:
5. It's easy enough to DIY. If you want ports in your table/chair/etc, the work involved is not that difficult to do on your own. The advantage of DIY is that you likely will get EXACTLY what you want and not 'almost' what you want (I wish this thing had 2 USB ports instead of just 1, I wish it came in yellow...)
To simplify those points: It's complicated and costly for the manufacturer, the market is small, and most people who would want this are the kind to just do it themselves.
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A couple of years ago I bought a TV bench with solid front doors. It has adequate provision for cords, but nothing for heat. Similar benches from the 70s tend to have slots top and bottom, I don't know why many don't now. My solution was to install a 160mm case fan and run it with a 12V supply I had kicking around.
Your best bet would be floor monuments that enclose power receptacles, and if you wanted you could put network jacks too. Of course, this is only available if you have a floor that can handle this installation, so it may not be for everyone. It's very unlikely that furniture manufacturers will ever want to wire up their products. As you stated, the fire hazards could be a disaster. If the furniture is sold worldwide, it's also unlikely they'd want to deal with the hassles of the various different voltages and regulatory approvals. They're much more comfortable with you stringing your power adapters through the couch and taking all the liability off them.
--
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For the kitchen tables why not get Kitchen lamps that have outlets or that you can add one or 2 outlets to?
So firstly, by tying the hot wire first does that mean there's no return path/path to ground, so any current flow could go anywhere, particularly through the person who's plugging in some equipment?
And does the second part mean not assuming that neutral/ground wires are labeled correctly? And if it is wrong and you connect it anyway what happens?
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A yes to the first question. the 2nd is all touring equipment tends to be chassis grounded. So if someone plugs a hot into ground or neutral. Bad things tend to happen when someone touches a rack or instrument and something that is properly grounded.
Our equipment is typically tied into 200/400 amp services. So you can imagine how much damage that could cause.
just have wifi electricity?