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German IT Firm Seeks Autistic Workers

Posted by Soulskill on from the recognizing-ability dept.

Aguazul2 writes "The German software giant SAP has announced it plans to recruit hundreds of people with autism within the next few years. The project has already started in India and Ireland where a total of 11 people with autism are employed by the company. The program to take on software testers, programmers and data management workers will spread across Germany, Canada and the U.S. this year. People with autism have a neural development disorder that often undermines their ability to communicate and interact socially [...] but in the world of computers the tendencies they often display such as an obsession for detail and an ability to analyze long sets of data very accurately can translate into highly useful and marketable skills."

40 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As anybody who had to work with SAP software can certify, it can only get better.

    1. Re:Great! by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Funny

      Perhaps they will put them in Sales, so their sales will match their product quality.

      If you want to put your company out of business then go to SAP. That way you can blame someone else.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Great! by Dogbertius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are too many details missing from the article for it to be of any use. One of my family members works with young people with autism every day, working towards teaching them to communicate, express one's self, and, if they are lucky, to be able to integrate into mainstream society as independent adults rather than being dependent on aid workers or being a burden of the state. The ability to maintain a steady job, a relationship, and a career in general, is, in my opinion, a very significant pursuit, and worth the investment.

      Are these individuals diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome? How far along the ASD spectum are they? Once you are so far along, the ability to talk and interact with external information sources is gone. I doubt SAP will be hiring people that are completely mute and unable to communicate with other humans via computers or sign language of any sort.

      Also, in the EU, you can have nine doctors diagnose you as free of autism, but a tenth says you have autism, that final diagnosis sticks. A lot of parents take advantage of this in North America as autism is one of the few behavior-affecting conditions that is funded by the government for subsidized care, teaching, etc. It's fairly common for parents of "hyper active" kids to intentionally seek out an ASD diagnosis just for the funding. It's pretty shameful, actually.

      For all we know, SAP's idea of "autistic" could be little more than very mild Asperger's syndrome or even as little as being slightly eccentric and being misdiagnosed.

    3. Re:Great! by ph4cr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Indeed - I have Asperger's Syndrome. Autism runs in my line. I was diagnosed later in life. There were "pills for weird pupils" when I was a child. Fortunately my parents were to poor or to stupid to dope me up! I've been doing IT Security for almost 20 years. Well before the attacker waterline rose above Corporate America's collective ankles! I always considered my "oddity" to be a sometimes benevolent "gift". With a variety of socially and personally unpleasant side effects... So - now neurological conditions are to be exploited! For corporate gain? I am utterly disgusted! I suggest seizing your medical records before other companies decide exactly what kind of asset or risk you pose to their bottom line!

    4. Re:Great! by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also, in the EU, you can have nine doctors diagnose you as free of autism, but a tenth says you have autism, that final diagnosis sticks. A lot of parents take advantage of this in North America as

      ... As apparently North America is part of the European Union? :/

      It's fairly common for parents of "hyper active" kids to intentionally seek out an ASD diagnosis just for the funding. It's pretty shameful, actually.

      It's quite common as well for doctors to tell patients to shove it. I have a diagnosis of both ADHD and Asperger's (btw, that's not what they're calling it now) and getting medication is exceptionally difficult, especially for anxiety. You don't mention this, but anxiety has such a high comorbidity with ASD that it's practically unheard of to find someone without it. The reason for this is those drug-seeking parents and young adults who want mind-enhancing drugs or their precious little snowflake to stop tearing the house apart and just veg out in front of the television. Parenting, lulz -- Disney raises our kids today.

      So it's not that I disagree with your assessment, but a clinical diagnosis, confirmed with neurological testing, is highly effective at screening out those segments of the population. And while it is a problem, it is still uncommon -- most people who present with ADHD or ASD symptoms have a bona-fide medical condition. Only a small fraction of patients are trying to abuse the system. Unfortunately, just as with pain medication, the political fallout and disinformation spread by well-meaning but lacking any medical certification people such as yourself only contribute to the problem of real patients, with real problems, getting help.

      On a different note; I don't think this German IT firm is seeking autistic workers because they're better. They're seeking them because they're vulnerable adults without the capacity to protect themselves from exploitative labor practices. And programming, contract work -- much of our field is exploitative in nature and one must be assertive, sometimes even aggressive, in pushing back. I've had to teach my aspie friends how to assert themselves on this sort of thing, because they genuinely can't see it. They are generally very trusting people; They don't see ulterior motives. It's part of the condition -- they're so intellectual they take everything at face value or literally.

      In this field... it's a recipe for disaster. Contrary to what this firm and many of the general public believe: IT is not a cash cow, nor is it glamorous work. Working with computers is emotionally draining, and long hours can be physically demanding. That attention to detail that's so sought after may be great for programming, but it's absolutely horrid when you have a team of people all like that; There's a reason we all have different skillsets and personalities -- too much of any one thing on a team leaves critical weaknesses in thinking that can lead to disaster.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    5. Re:Great! by datavirtue · · Score: 2

      I'm going to put that in my cover letters, or perhaps at the top of my resume. "High functioning autistic looking to make an impact in a team environment."

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
  2. So... by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People with autism have a neural development disorder that often undermines their ability to communicate and interact socially [...] but in the world of computers the tendencies they often display such as an obsession for detail and an ability to analyze long sets of data very accurately can translate into highly useful and marketable skills.

    From that description, I'd guess that 95% of autistic people already work in the IT field.

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    1. Re:So... by fellip_nectar · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think you'll find we all have Asperger's, you insensitive clod!

      --
      Worst. Signature. Ever.
    2. Re:So... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From that description, I'd guess that 95% of autistic people already work in the IT field.

      Many of the people in IT probably score a little higher on the autistic spectrum, but there's a difference between that and full-on autism.

      Lots of people will say they have Aspberger's to write off their eccentricities as well. But without a proper clinical diagnosis, those people are usually wrong.

      Sometimes, people are just annoying jerks with an over-attention to detail, but that makes them neither autistic nor people with Asperger's. Once we accept that about ourselves, we can try to be slightly less annoying and work on some of those things. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:So... by Seumas · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It depends. There's "autistic", where (and I'm not trying to be insensitive with my description, here) someone may be wearing protective gear, rocking/spinning, groaning a lot and freak out if there is any noise or light and who are literally unable to communicate with their family in any manner beyond gesturing . . . and then there are the Slashdot hipsters who have taken to the trend of self-diagnosing with Asperger's over the last five years, because they are occasionally "socially awkward penguin" or "are really obsessive about something and detail oriented".

      The article makes it pretty clear that they're talking about "socially awkward" Asperger's people (presumably legitimately so and not those climbing on board the label, because they took an online quiz) and not the ones who have actual communication issues and have difficulty functioning within their home, much less in a professional environment performing QA functions.

      I have friends who have autistic children, so I really hope my description of the first case isn't made out to be cruel. In my (limited, as an outsider) experience, it is pretty accurate of the lower ends of the Autism spectrum.

    4. Re:So... by CyberSlugGump · · Score: 2

      Autism or Asperger’s syndrome? I guess the distinction is moot now with the very recent release of the Fifth Edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders eliminating Asperger Disorder in favor of Autism Spectrum Disorder

      Also, remember person-first language: "workers with autism" instead of "autistic workers"

    5. Re:So... by sigxcpu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Asperger's is high functioning Autism.

      Nowadays, anything the shrink does not like is "highly functioning Autism"

      --
      As of Postgres v6.2, time travel is no longer supported.
    6. Re:So... by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      So we should say "people with slashdotism" and not "insensitive clod"?

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    7. Re:So... by jovius · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I work as a part-time helper and I've seen some pretty average cases of autism too. Normal in this case means incapacitating sensitivity to stimuli, inability to communicate (some just scream or laugh at things) and extremely aggressive behaviour (Some of the care-takers I know have been bitten, badly bruised or some of their hair has been pulled off). The image what general population have of autism and asperger's is twisted, and it's amusing how many self diagnose themselves with some totally idealized disease just to have some meaning in their lives. The diagnosis selectively lands on the 'best' cases.

    8. Re:So... by Diamonddavej · · Score: 3, Informative

      85% of autistic people are unemployed, though most are willing and able to work.

      http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/employment.aspx

    9. Re:So... by smellsofbikes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It depends. There's "autistic", where (and I'm not trying to be insensitive with my description, here) someone may be wearing protective gear, rocking/spinning, groaning a lot and freak out if there is any noise or light and who are literally unable to communicate with their family in any manner beyond gesturing . . . and then there are the Slashdot hipsters who have taken to the trend of self-diagnosing with Asperger's over the last five years, because they are occasionally "socially awkward penguin" or "are really obsessive about something and detail oriented".

      The article makes it pretty clear that they're talking about "socially awkward" Asperger's people (presumably legitimately so and not those climbing on board the label, because they took an online quiz) and not the ones who have actual communication issues and have difficulty functioning within their home, much less in a professional environment performing QA functions.

      I have friends who have autistic children, so I really hope my description of the first case isn't made out to be cruel. In my (limited, as an outsider) experience, it is pretty accurate of the lower ends of the Autism spectrum.

      There are also people who move across that continuum. My wife has a lot of classical physical autism characteristics: rocking/spinning, inability to function with noise or bright/flashing lights, finds the touch of silk, moving water, grass completely unbearable, walks on her toes all the time, among others, but can usually manage to work a real job that involves dealing with problem children for eight hours a day because she has worked out a very precise, detailed system of how she approaches the work, and she's fantastically good at what she does. If an employer is willing to go to the effort to provide the specific work environment in which a borderline autistic person can function, it could be hugely beneficial for both the employer and the employee.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    10. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Go fuck yourself! I don't have any social problems. You have the social problems.

      I like trains. Do you like trains? My favorite train locomotive is the Hockdruck H17-206. It was built in 1925 by Henschel, on the Schmidt high pressure system. Hockdruck is German for "high pressure".

    11. Re:So... by Culture20 · · Score: 2

      The image what general population have of autism and asperger's is twisted

      To be fair, the general population only ever sees autistic people who are highly functioning, because baseline and severe cases are still "hidden away" by parents. No one wants to bring an autistic kid to dinner at a restaurant when they'll be freaking out and screaming all the time. That and Rain Man.

    12. Re:So... by Culture20 · · Score: 2

      "workers with X" =/= "people who work with X"
      Workers is a collective noun, and the with modifying it means that X is something the collective noun possesses.
      I believe you're confusing "workers of X" and "workers with X"

    13. Re:So... by seebs · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Please, please do NOT use "person-first" language.

      I'm autistic. Most of my friends are autistic. I know dozens to hundreds of autistic people.

      Guess how many people I have ever met who are autistic, and prefer to be called a "person with autism"? Hint: The number is slightly lower than one, and it's an integer.

      Try going around referring, not to women, but to "persons with femaleness", and see how that works out for you.

      A randomly selected blog article on the topic.

      Basically, person-first language marks you as aligned with the Autism Speaks folks and their anti-autistic-people propaganda machine. Avoid it.

      --
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    14. Re: So... by seebs · · Score: 2

      See, that's the thing.

      I don't want people going around separating me from who I am. Autism is not a thing that happened to me. It's what I am. If you made a thing otherwise like me, but not autistic, that thing would be a person, sure, but it would be a different person.

      --
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    15. Re:So... by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Funny

      My shrink diagnosed me as a poorly functioning normal.

    16. Re:So... by Livius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Humans are social animals. Social problems *are* disabilities.

    17. Re:So... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      People with Asperger's aren't antisocial by choice. They don't readily understand the social rules that come naturally to other people. For example, if you ask my son (who was diagnosed with Asperger's) how his day was, you're probably looking for an answer along the lines of "It went pretty well." Instead, you'll get a second-by-second stream-of-consciousness replay of his entire day.

      People with Asperger's can learn the social rules, but it takes effort to remember it all. This means that being social can be tiring. Add in the anxiety over getting something wrong and it becomes easier to not be social than it is to be social. All the while, the person with Asperger's WANTS to be social but finds it a tiring/anxiety-ridden affair.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  3. SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    SAP want them cause they are easily exploitable. I have sadly had to work with SAP twice, there software is crap and most of their developers are Indians paid like maids (in Sweden). I have no respect for that company or their software (or any company stupid enough to use it).

    1. Re:SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Informative

      SAP want them cause they are easily exploitable.

      No, SAP wants them because the state mandates a quota of people with disabilities to all larger companies, and in exchange, the companies get various benefits from the state for every such employee.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      No, SAP wants them because the state mandates a quota of people with disabilities to all larger companies, and in exchange, the companies get various benefits from the state for every such employee.

      No no no, the Germans are the only people who can culturally relate to autistic people -- the need for order and rigorous detail is appreciated there and viewed as a good thing. ;-)

      (And, for the record, I've worked with Germans before -- most of whom are awesome and will make their own jokes about their collective need for things to be in ordnung, I'm not dissing them.)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  4. I LOVE this precedent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    My hiring practice with be women with big tits. Because I have just as much evidence as these Germans do.

  5. Great news for 4chan. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    A lot of them will finally get jobs.

  6. Tax Breaks by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is there any tax breaks for hiring people with autism? I am too cynical.

    1. Re:Tax Breaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Is there any tax breaks for hiring people with autism? I am too cynical.

      Spot on. EU requirements of x %age of employees with y issues/minority when company employee count > y.

    2. Re:Tax Breaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      i.e. German "Schwerbehindertengesetz" http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerbehindertenrecht_%28Deutschland%29

      "Private und öffentliche Arbeitgeber mit mindestens 20 Arbeitsplätzen sind verpflichtet, auf mindestens 5 % der Arbeitsplätze schwerbehinderte Menschen zu beschäftigen."

      => "employers with more than 20 employees are obligated to fill at least 5% of these spots with ppl with disabilities."

      if they don't, they are subject to extra fees, however many companies choose to rather pay these fees than deal with the extra hassles in case you need to fire employees with disabilities. the fees are not very high anyway, but i have no source atm. it's a couple hundred euro a year per unfilled spot iirc.

      Workers with disabilities also have better job protection, extra leave days, protection against discrimination, etc.

  7. Thorkil Sonne by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

    SAP aren't the first to do this.

    Thorkil Sonne at Specialisterne in Denmark has built a consultancy of autistics.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  8. Go read "The Speed of Dark", it's on this topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_Dark

    It's a good story in any case, and it's told from the point of view of an autistic person who works for a company that has specifically be hireing people, sounding very similar to this story

    David Lang

  9. Will Be Abused by EMG+at+MU · · Score: 2

    This will be abused. Either the autistic employees will be abused or the non autistic employees will be abused because they are not performing as well as the autistic employees. I think it's a really good thing that these people are being given opportunities, I just don't know how their "talents" won't be exploited by management. Low social functions could also mean not really speaking out when asked (forced) to work 12 hour days.

    Maybe I jump to cynical conclusions but it seems generalizing autistic people as some kind of software super people and then seeking to hire them is a bit like generalizing asians as good at math and seeking to hire them into math intensive positions.

  10. Danish company founded by parent of autistic child by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The proxy at work hates /. so not bothering to login.

    Anyhow they might be following the footsteps of this Danish family that started a business with Autistic employees because their son was autistic and they wanted their to be somewhere for him to work when they were gone.
    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/putting-the-gifts-of-the-autistic-to-work/

    They found out their employees do excellent QA work and they even charge a premium for it.

    Don't let EA find out about they guy they had to tell to go home because he was working so late and didn't really notice.

    Tekfactory

  11. Re:People with autism have a neural development... by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

    I think we have proof that you have a "neural development disorder".

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  12. I am an "aspie" by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Note: The Google translator is shit and my native language (brazilian portuguese) is complicated to translate, so expect ugly spelling errors

    As a bearer of Asperger's syndrome, I can - safely - affirm for you guys that the inability of social interaction is not my choice. It's like yours social skills being always "offline" with no way to be switched on, I am unable to get the "social signals" that everyone realizes without having to learn and I am treated as "invisible" by everyone or even worse, as "easy target".

    In contrast, it is easy, pretty easy to me to develop any complex application without neglecting the details and seeing both the whole and the part of the system, in my work I take care of all aspects of a local government system and the users are pretty satisfied with it. Too bad I have to live like a social outcast with no choice (because others actively reject me for not being exactly like them).

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
  13. Understanding Asperger by Livius · · Score: 2

    Everyone has varying degrees of ability in different areas.

    Some people are sensitive to non-verbal signals, and some less sensitive, and some really have to work at understanding them.

    People who genuinely have Asperger do not realize there is such a thing as non-verbal communication until someone teaches them. Their instinctive understanding of human nature does not even include it.

    Ironically, their abilities and temperament are actually highly prized in a great many employment situations.

    It's job searching where they're handicapped.

  14. Not so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You are confusing "Hockdruck" and "Hochdruck". "Hockdruck" is German for "squatting pressure". Uncomfortably related, though.