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German IT Firm Seeks Autistic Workers

Posted by Soulskill on from the recognizing-ability dept.

Aguazul2 writes "The German software giant SAP has announced it plans to recruit hundreds of people with autism within the next few years. The project has already started in India and Ireland where a total of 11 people with autism are employed by the company. The program to take on software testers, programmers and data management workers will spread across Germany, Canada and the U.S. this year. People with autism have a neural development disorder that often undermines their ability to communicate and interact socially [...] but in the world of computers the tendencies they often display such as an obsession for detail and an ability to analyze long sets of data very accurately can translate into highly useful and marketable skills."

116 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As anybody who had to work with SAP software can certify, it can only get better.

    1. Re:Great! by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Funny

      Perhaps they will put them in Sales, so their sales will match their product quality.

      If you want to put your company out of business then go to SAP. That way you can blame someone else.

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    2. Re:Great! by excelsior_gr · · Score: 1

      The only way of making the pile of crap called SAP better is to take the drives with its code, format them, overwrite them with random data, go buck-wild with a sledgehammer on them and toss the pieces into the Mariana trench. Only then will I consider talking about possible improvements.

    3. Re:Great! by Dogbertius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are too many details missing from the article for it to be of any use. One of my family members works with young people with autism every day, working towards teaching them to communicate, express one's self, and, if they are lucky, to be able to integrate into mainstream society as independent adults rather than being dependent on aid workers or being a burden of the state. The ability to maintain a steady job, a relationship, and a career in general, is, in my opinion, a very significant pursuit, and worth the investment.

      Are these individuals diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome? How far along the ASD spectum are they? Once you are so far along, the ability to talk and interact with external information sources is gone. I doubt SAP will be hiring people that are completely mute and unable to communicate with other humans via computers or sign language of any sort.

      Also, in the EU, you can have nine doctors diagnose you as free of autism, but a tenth says you have autism, that final diagnosis sticks. A lot of parents take advantage of this in North America as autism is one of the few behavior-affecting conditions that is funded by the government for subsidized care, teaching, etc. It's fairly common for parents of "hyper active" kids to intentionally seek out an ASD diagnosis just for the funding. It's pretty shameful, actually.

      For all we know, SAP's idea of "autistic" could be little more than very mild Asperger's syndrome or even as little as being slightly eccentric and being misdiagnosed.

    4. Re:Great! by ph4cr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Indeed - I have Asperger's Syndrome. Autism runs in my line. I was diagnosed later in life. There were "pills for weird pupils" when I was a child. Fortunately my parents were to poor or to stupid to dope me up! I've been doing IT Security for almost 20 years. Well before the attacker waterline rose above Corporate America's collective ankles! I always considered my "oddity" to be a sometimes benevolent "gift". With a variety of socially and personally unpleasant side effects... So - now neurological conditions are to be exploited! For corporate gain? I am utterly disgusted! I suggest seizing your medical records before other companies decide exactly what kind of asset or risk you pose to their bottom line!

    5. Re:Great! by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Also, in the EU, you can have nine doctors diagnose you as free of autism, but a tenth says you have autism, that final diagnosis sticks. A lot of parents take advantage of this in North America as

      ... As apparently North America is part of the European Union? :/

      It's fairly common for parents of "hyper active" kids to intentionally seek out an ASD diagnosis just for the funding. It's pretty shameful, actually.

      It's quite common as well for doctors to tell patients to shove it. I have a diagnosis of both ADHD and Asperger's (btw, that's not what they're calling it now) and getting medication is exceptionally difficult, especially for anxiety. You don't mention this, but anxiety has such a high comorbidity with ASD that it's practically unheard of to find someone without it. The reason for this is those drug-seeking parents and young adults who want mind-enhancing drugs or their precious little snowflake to stop tearing the house apart and just veg out in front of the television. Parenting, lulz -- Disney raises our kids today.

      So it's not that I disagree with your assessment, but a clinical diagnosis, confirmed with neurological testing, is highly effective at screening out those segments of the population. And while it is a problem, it is still uncommon -- most people who present with ADHD or ASD symptoms have a bona-fide medical condition. Only a small fraction of patients are trying to abuse the system. Unfortunately, just as with pain medication, the political fallout and disinformation spread by well-meaning but lacking any medical certification people such as yourself only contribute to the problem of real patients, with real problems, getting help.

      On a different note; I don't think this German IT firm is seeking autistic workers because they're better. They're seeking them because they're vulnerable adults without the capacity to protect themselves from exploitative labor practices. And programming, contract work -- much of our field is exploitative in nature and one must be assertive, sometimes even aggressive, in pushing back. I've had to teach my aspie friends how to assert themselves on this sort of thing, because they genuinely can't see it. They are generally very trusting people; They don't see ulterior motives. It's part of the condition -- they're so intellectual they take everything at face value or literally.

      In this field... it's a recipe for disaster. Contrary to what this firm and many of the general public believe: IT is not a cash cow, nor is it glamorous work. Working with computers is emotionally draining, and long hours can be physically demanding. That attention to detail that's so sought after may be great for programming, but it's absolutely horrid when you have a team of people all like that; There's a reason we all have different skillsets and personalities -- too much of any one thing on a team leaves critical weaknesses in thinking that can lead to disaster.

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    6. Re:Great! by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      Contrary to what this firm and many of the general public believe: IT is not a cash cow, nor is it glamorous work.

      Ah ha...I see you aren't familiar with SAP then. Their IT based cash cow pulls in $20 billion a year.

    7. Re:Great! by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      I'm waiting for them to replace politicians with autists.

      No religious beliefs, no desire to wield power over others, pragmatic, good at math, won't sleep until the economy is fully optimized ... it's all good.

      --
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    8. Re:Great! by fonske · · Score: 1

      My wife understands that her attitude, even at her workplace, can easily be understood as "autism".
      She does not search for medical attention since she is scared of the labeling scheme of psychiatry with their ever changing DSM (diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders).
      Her strong reservation for "lesser analytically skilled" was actually a point of attraction to me.
      Her mom told that my wife was 7 years old when they first saw her in complete rage shouting "the teacher keeps repeating again and again how the multiplicative tables work and they (her class mates) still don't understand".
      Her "uninterested, non-assertive" attitude was her way to get through her studies without actually hurting anyone.
      I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that she never ever was nervous before her university examinations. But she just shrugs and repeats that if you are well prepared you should not be nervous.
      And for someone who is not interested in making social contacts she is doing great before big audiences.
      In fact the rapidly evolving "information technology society" should help to understand that we all have limits to what we wish to care for. This is what I would call the little autistic side in everyone of us.

    9. Re:Great! by cornjones · · Score: 1

      hmm, mod vs comment... i guess comment.

      for the most part I agree w/ your statement but I don't agree with this part:

      On a different note; I don't think this German IT firm is seeking autistic workers because they're better. They're seeking them because they're vulnerable adults without the capacity to protect themselves from exploitative labor practices.

      The germans (and europeans) seem to have a stronger societal ethic than you are giving them credit for. Where in the states we have abandoned everything that doesn't directly contribute to the short term bottom line, imho, the germans are able to take a longer view. This is a way these people can make a useful contribution and the society as a whole is stronger for finding some way for everybody to contribute. This seems similar to the strong push for apprenticeships that the germans also champion. Give people a way to do meaningful work rather than living off the gov't. We could take a lesson here.

      I also think it makes perfect sense. QA (and various other areas of computing) dovetail nicely with the different outlook of some mildly autistic people. Where they wouldn't be successful in relationship management, they can be a valued contributor in finding things that don't look right.

    10. Re:Great! by datavirtue · · Score: 2

      I'm going to put that in my cover letters, or perhaps at the top of my resume. "High functioning autistic looking to make an impact in a team environment."

      --
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    11. Re:Great! by shikaisi · · Score: 1

      At least it's a better strategy than Oracle's policy of only employing paranoid megalomaniacs.

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    12. Re:Great! by volmtech · · Score: 1

      Both of my sons have this . The oldest is a contract annalist for a German conglomerate. The youngest rooms with him while attending collage. Obsessing on reports is one way to get good grades. There are many jobs where attention to every detail is critical. Game night does resemble an episode from "The Big Bang Theory" but with a lawyer, English PhD, third year collage student, an IT worker, a psychology major and a hairdresser it is entertain. When this group shuffles into their hotel at Dragon-Con other attendees already know their names.

  2. So... by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People with autism have a neural development disorder that often undermines their ability to communicate and interact socially [...] but in the world of computers the tendencies they often display such as an obsession for detail and an ability to analyze long sets of data very accurately can translate into highly useful and marketable skills.

    From that description, I'd guess that 95% of autistic people already work in the IT field.

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    1. Re:So... by fellip_nectar · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think you'll find we all have Asperger's, you insensitive clod!

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    2. Re:So... by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Yes. Or are Senior Surgical Staff at teaching hospital.

      --
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      Never been known to fail..."
    3. Re:So... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From that description, I'd guess that 95% of autistic people already work in the IT field.

      Many of the people in IT probably score a little higher on the autistic spectrum, but there's a difference between that and full-on autism.

      Lots of people will say they have Aspberger's to write off their eccentricities as well. But without a proper clinical diagnosis, those people are usually wrong.

      Sometimes, people are just annoying jerks with an over-attention to detail, but that makes them neither autistic nor people with Asperger's. Once we accept that about ourselves, we can try to be slightly less annoying and work on some of those things. ;-)

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    4. Re:So... by Seumas · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It depends. There's "autistic", where (and I'm not trying to be insensitive with my description, here) someone may be wearing protective gear, rocking/spinning, groaning a lot and freak out if there is any noise or light and who are literally unable to communicate with their family in any manner beyond gesturing . . . and then there are the Slashdot hipsters who have taken to the trend of self-diagnosing with Asperger's over the last five years, because they are occasionally "socially awkward penguin" or "are really obsessive about something and detail oriented".

      The article makes it pretty clear that they're talking about "socially awkward" Asperger's people (presumably legitimately so and not those climbing on board the label, because they took an online quiz) and not the ones who have actual communication issues and have difficulty functioning within their home, much less in a professional environment performing QA functions.

      I have friends who have autistic children, so I really hope my description of the first case isn't made out to be cruel. In my (limited, as an outsider) experience, it is pretty accurate of the lower ends of the Autism spectrum.

    5. Re:So... by CyberSlugGump · · Score: 2

      Autism or Asperger’s syndrome? I guess the distinction is moot now with the very recent release of the Fifth Edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders eliminating Asperger Disorder in favor of Autism Spectrum Disorder

      Also, remember person-first language: "workers with autism" instead of "autistic workers"

    6. Re:So... by sigxcpu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Asperger's is high functioning Autism.

      Nowadays, anything the shrink does not like is "highly functioning Autism"

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    7. Re:So... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Not in the DSM anymore, because it's not really distinct from autism in any meaningful way.

    8. Re:So... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      Also, remember person-first language: "workers with autism" instead of "autistic workers"

      That's a nice sentiment, but it's not how English sentences are constructed. Adjectives reduce awkwardness. It can make a real difference in complex clauses.

    9. Re:So... by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      So we should say "people with slashdotism" and not "insensitive clod"?

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    10. Re:So... by bityz · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you mean that you'd "guess that already 95% of people working in the IT field are autistic". (or is that observation too obsessively detail oriented?) (you have no idea how long I struggled with where to put "already"... )

    11. Re:So... by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 1

      Lots of people will say they have Aspberger's to write off their eccentricities as well.

      As diagnosed by Zach Weiner in his Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal:
      http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2832

    12. Re:So... by mwvdlee · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There is very much so a distinction.
      People with autism have a disability that causes socially problems.
      People with asperger have social problems that they blame on a disability.

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    13. Re:So... by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 1

      Not in the DSM anymore, because it's not really distinct from autism in any meaningful way.

      An unfortunate decision - for the victims and their families, there is a huge difference from one end of the spectrum to the other.

    14. Re:So... by jovius · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I work as a part-time helper and I've seen some pretty average cases of autism too. Normal in this case means incapacitating sensitivity to stimuli, inability to communicate (some just scream or laugh at things) and extremely aggressive behaviour (Some of the care-takers I know have been bitten, badly bruised or some of their hair has been pulled off). The image what general population have of autism and asperger's is twisted, and it's amusing how many self diagnose themselves with some totally idealized disease just to have some meaning in their lives. The diagnosis selectively lands on the 'best' cases.

    15. Re:So... by TWiTfan · · Score: 1

      I'm shy, and also an asshole. Surely that means I have a syndrome, right?

      --
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    16. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Clearly you have never spent any significant amount of time with anyone suffering from severe autism. Saying it's not different from Asberger Syndrome "in any meaningful way" is like saying having a papercut isn't different from being disemboweled "in any meaningful way".

    17. Re:So... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      You seem to think no one with autism is high-functioning. Thanks for working so hard to make "autistic" a bad word like "retarded" is. I have an uncle who is quite severely autistic, and a cousin with a much more minor incarnation of the illness. Aspergers has no diagnostic or treatment criteria that distinguish from autism. The end.

    18. Re:So... by Diamonddavej · · Score: 3, Informative

      85% of autistic people are unemployed, though most are willing and able to work.

      http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/employment.aspx

    19. Re:So... by alexander_686 · · Score: 1

      I agree that it is a nice sentiment, but English tends to be a modifier-first, head-final order nomenclature. Think Songbird vs. Birdsong. It’s longer, it has more words – you are going against the nature grain of language.

    20. Re:So... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I believe they meant to say that 94.586493271% actually.

      --
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    21. Re:So... by smellsofbikes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It depends. There's "autistic", where (and I'm not trying to be insensitive with my description, here) someone may be wearing protective gear, rocking/spinning, groaning a lot and freak out if there is any noise or light and who are literally unable to communicate with their family in any manner beyond gesturing . . . and then there are the Slashdot hipsters who have taken to the trend of self-diagnosing with Asperger's over the last five years, because they are occasionally "socially awkward penguin" or "are really obsessive about something and detail oriented".

      The article makes it pretty clear that they're talking about "socially awkward" Asperger's people (presumably legitimately so and not those climbing on board the label, because they took an online quiz) and not the ones who have actual communication issues and have difficulty functioning within their home, much less in a professional environment performing QA functions.

      I have friends who have autistic children, so I really hope my description of the first case isn't made out to be cruel. In my (limited, as an outsider) experience, it is pretty accurate of the lower ends of the Autism spectrum.

      There are also people who move across that continuum. My wife has a lot of classical physical autism characteristics: rocking/spinning, inability to function with noise or bright/flashing lights, finds the touch of silk, moving water, grass completely unbearable, walks on her toes all the time, among others, but can usually manage to work a real job that involves dealing with problem children for eight hours a day because she has worked out a very precise, detailed system of how she approaches the work, and she's fantastically good at what she does. If an employer is willing to go to the effort to provide the specific work environment in which a borderline autistic person can function, it could be hugely beneficial for both the employer and the employee.

      --
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    22. Re:So... by hendrikboom · · Score: 1

      In my English, workers with autism do things to autism, like workers with leather might make wallets and shoes.

    23. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Go fuck yourself! I don't have any social problems. You have the social problems.

      I like trains. Do you like trains? My favorite train locomotive is the Hockdruck H17-206. It was built in 1925 by Henschel, on the Schmidt high pressure system. Hockdruck is German for "high pressure".

    24. Re:So... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you mean that you'd "guess that already 95% of people working in the IT field are autistic".

      (or is that observation too obsessively detail oriented?) (you have no idea how long I struggled with where to put "already"... )

      You're confusing "autistic" with "anal retentive".

      --
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    25. Re:So... by Culture20 · · Score: 2

      The image what general population have of autism and asperger's is twisted

      To be fair, the general population only ever sees autistic people who are highly functioning, because baseline and severe cases are still "hidden away" by parents. No one wants to bring an autistic kid to dinner at a restaurant when they'll be freaking out and screaming all the time. That and Rain Man.

    26. Re:So... by Culture20 · · Score: 2

      "workers with X" =/= "people who work with X"
      Workers is a collective noun, and the with modifying it means that X is something the collective noun possesses.
      I believe you're confusing "workers of X" and "workers with X"

    27. Re:So... by seebs · · Score: 1

      The distinction you point to is not as clear-cut as it might seem, because often these are the same people under different circumstances.

      I do just fine. I have friends whose underlying autistic traits aren't any "more severe" or whatever, but who were raised by people who tried to force them to "be normal", and they have a much harder time.

      Overload me, and I can't understand or use spoken language reliably. I can still read and write, though. But if no one ever gives you a pen, you can come across as a lot less capable than you are...

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    28. Re:So... by seebs · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Please, please do NOT use "person-first" language.

      I'm autistic. Most of my friends are autistic. I know dozens to hundreds of autistic people.

      Guess how many people I have ever met who are autistic, and prefer to be called a "person with autism"? Hint: The number is slightly lower than one, and it's an integer.

      Try going around referring, not to women, but to "persons with femaleness", and see how that works out for you.

      A randomly selected blog article on the topic.

      Basically, person-first language marks you as aligned with the Autism Speaks folks and their anti-autistic-people propaganda machine. Avoid it.

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    29. Re: So... by seebs · · Score: 2

      See, that's the thing.

      I don't want people going around separating me from who I am. Autism is not a thing that happened to me. It's what I am. If you made a thing otherwise like me, but not autistic, that thing would be a person, sure, but it would be a different person.

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    30. Re:So... by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Funny

      My shrink diagnosed me as a poorly functioning normal.

    31. Re:So... by Livius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Humans are social animals. Social problems *are* disabilities.

    32. Re:So... by Muros · · Score: 1

      So? You file it under the spectrum and specify the severity.

      Yup. Just like what colour a light is is filed as being on the electromagnetic spectrum and having a certain luminosity.

    33. Re:So... by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 1

      So? You file it under the spectrum and specify the severity.

      In a rational world, that would be fine, and it generally works within the medical and other caring professions. Elsewhere, however, it is not hard to find people for whom this is too subtle, and who insist on over-generalizing from their own limited experiences, a habit that is facilitated by putting the whole spectrum under one word. You can find examples in this forum.

    34. Re: So... by seebs · · Score: 1

      Well, one answer might be that they could get the same rights everyone else does, to ask to be addressed or referred to a given way. But not necessarily the right to demand that everyone else be referred to the same way.

      But I've only ever known one, and so far as I can tell, if her family weren't abusive she'd be fine, it's just that they're abusive to her. It's sorta like the distinction between "gay people" and "people who struggle with homosexuality".

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    35. Re:So... by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      Exact.

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    36. Re:So... by schnell · · Score: 1

      Social problems *are* disabilities.

      I can see that what you're saying comes from the right place. But the way you say it is far too broad and doesn't admit for the possibility of meaningful distinctions between types or degrees of social "problems" or that some issues are personal "issues" rather than "disabilities."

      For example, we can probably agree that society should assist or support those with severe personality disorders. But what about different degrees of antisocial behavior that result in a person having no social contacts? In its most extreme case, does that mean that I'm entitled to welfare checks for being an asshole with no friends? And where do you draw the line?

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    37. Re:So... by Seumas · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I definitely didn't mean to suggest there were only the two extremes. As I mentioned, they're different ends of a spectrum and there's a lot of in-between. I was merely pointing out that they would most likely be aiming at the "imperceptible" with "asperger's" more than serious cases that need real and possibly almost constant attention. At best, maybe some of those who are slightly more impacted by it, to the point that it's noticeable, even. In which case, I just don't see why this whole thing is much of a deal. There are tons of people who have (whether they merely claim to -- which is a pet peeve of mine -- or are actually diagnosed) mild forms of autism/asperger's who are already gainfully employed in very demanding and complex careers and don't think a thing of it.

      The article was very light, but I don't get much impression that they're looking to hire people that would require them to really go out of there way to productively employ them. More that they're planning to hire already very functioning people who may have some quirks, but not need special attention. I admit that it's a cynical assumption and I'd be glad to be proved wrong by their actual practices. :)

    38. Re:So... by Seumas · · Score: 1

      It depends. Do you also dislike authority figures? If so, you at the very least probably have oppositional defiance disorder. :)

    39. Re:So... by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 1

      You seem to think no one with autism is high-functioning.

      I think you have completely misunderstood the post you are replying to. The author's whole point is that the syndrome formerly known as Asperger's is far less debilitating than those found at the other end of the autism spectrum.

      There seems to be a contradiction in your positions here. You started by saying that Asperger's is/was "not really distinct from autism in any meaningful way", but now you are insisting that we make a distinction between high-functioning and the more severe incarnations of the disease. As the syndrome formerly known as Asperger's has been subsumed into the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum, you can't have it both ways.

      Aspergers has no diagnostic or treatment criteria that distinguish from autism. The end.

      For the limited purposes of the DSM, that may be true, but it is an invalid extrapolation to claim there is no meaningful distinction between the syndrome formerly known as Asperger's and what was meant by autism when Asperger's was in use. The fact that the former Asperger's is now regarded as a high-functioning autism spectrum variant does not justify this generalization, because the change is only in the language, not in what it denotes. The fact is that in many aspects of life, there is a huge difference in autism's impact across the spectrum.

      I am also puzzled by how you can munge the definition of 'treatment criteria' in order to say that there is no difference between the treatment criteria for a nonverbal autistic person and someone with the former Asperger's syndrome.

      My best guess is that what you meant to say is that there is no meaningful distinction between Asperger's and other high-function variants of autism.

    40. Re:So... by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      You might be interested in reading about the experiences of Temple Grandin.

      --
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    41. Re:So... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      No sane parent would bring a severely autistic child to a restaurant. If they have a problem processing stimuli or expressing emotion, they will react very strongly to such a high level of stimulation. It's new surroundings to process and understand, and respond to accordingly.

      There was a story a couple of months ago regarding Auti-Sim. I work with kids with ADSs, and while I can't say how accurate the "game" is to how they actually perceive the world, I can definitely appreciate that over-stimulation can cause some pretty violent behaviour.

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    42. Re:So... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      No, people with Asperger's are high functioning Autistics. The good news is that they can usually function in day to day society. The bad news is that they mask their issues well enough that people can tell them they don't have any real problems. For the record, my son has Asperger's and I likely have it as well. (I'm not diagnosed because it would cost money to get the diagnosis and it wouldn't help me or my son at this point.)

      Just because a few people take a social problem and joke "I must have Asperger's", don't think that anyone with Asperger's is just trying to pass blame off of themselves.

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    43. Re:So... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      People with Asperger's aren't antisocial by choice. They don't readily understand the social rules that come naturally to other people. For example, if you ask my son (who was diagnosed with Asperger's) how his day was, you're probably looking for an answer along the lines of "It went pretty well." Instead, you'll get a second-by-second stream-of-consciousness replay of his entire day.

      People with Asperger's can learn the social rules, but it takes effort to remember it all. This means that being social can be tiring. Add in the anxiety over getting something wrong and it becomes easier to not be social than it is to be social. All the while, the person with Asperger's WANTS to be social but finds it a tiring/anxiety-ridden affair.

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    44. Re:So... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      The rocking/spinning is called Stimming - or self-stimulation. It's utilized by those on the spectrum as a coping mechanism for situations (possibly including sensory overload) that they can't handle otherwise.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  3. SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    SAP want them cause they are easily exploitable. I have sadly had to work with SAP twice, there software is crap and most of their developers are Indians paid like maids (in Sweden). I have no respect for that company or their software (or any company stupid enough to use it).

    1. Re:SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Informative

      SAP want them cause they are easily exploitable.

      No, SAP wants them because the state mandates a quota of people with disabilities to all larger companies, and in exchange, the companies get various benefits from the state for every such employee.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      No, SAP wants them because the state mandates a quota of people with disabilities to all larger companies, and in exchange, the companies get various benefits from the state for every such employee.

      No no no, the Germans are the only people who can culturally relate to autistic people -- the need for order and rigorous detail is appreciated there and viewed as a good thing. ;-)

      (And, for the record, I've worked with Germans before -- most of whom are awesome and will make their own jokes about their collective need for things to be in ordnung, I'm not dissing them.)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Have you read the 1632 series of books by Eric Flint? Do it, it's wonderful. An American town (from semi-rural West Virginia, no less!) gets lobbed into the 17th century Europe, in the middle of Germany (and also in the middle of the Thirty Years' War), and everyone wonders why these strange people who claim to have come from the future English colonies in the New World, by means of some strange cosmic accident, think that the Germans with their motley assortment of duchies with hideously complicated by-laws are considered "orderly".

      Also, the Americans proclaim themselves to be "staunch individualists" compared to the Germans, whereas the contemporaries are puzzled and snigger at them for that because they've never seen a more bureaucratic bunch of people in their whole life, and further would have never believed that any such bunch was even naturally possible. :)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by johnjaydk · · Score: 1

      No no no, the Germans are the only people who can culturally relate to autistic people -- the need for order and rigorous detail is appreciated there and viewed as a good thing. ;-)

      I've been inside a BMW assembly plant in Germany and I were chocked even though I had been warned in advance. The place was cleaner than most restaurants in the rest of the world.

      Everybody who've have had a high-end German car is ready to praise German obsessive compulsiveness. You can also find a lot of shit in Germany but when they really try, then they go all out.

      --
      TCAP-Abort
    5. Re:SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I love my 740il.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    6. Re:SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by jopsen · · Score: 1

      SAP want them cause they are easily exploitable.

      Seriously, a company does something nice for a group of people with a serious disability, and your first thought is that they want to exploit them.
      Drop the paranoia... Some news is just good...

      I have sadly had to work with SAP twice, there software is crap and most of their developers are Indians paid like maids (in Sweden).

      Are you sure? I don't know what maids in Sweden make, but I'd imagine they make a pretty decent salary (easily 3-4000 USD / month).

    7. Re:SAP? Guess they aren't looking for quality... by volmtech · · Score: 1

      I second this, many of the books are free on Baen's free library. You can also read several chapters of each book and 1632 Gazettes at Amazon. Mostly historically correrct and thought provoking.

      And for Mind numbing sci-fy action read John Ringo's posleen series

  4. I LOVE this precedent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    My hiring practice with be women with big tits. Because I have just as much evidence as these Germans do.

    1. Re:I LOVE this precedent! by DougOtto · · Score: 1

      In IT? What if she already has a job?

      --
      Solving Unix problems since 1989...
    2. Re:I LOVE this precedent! by DougOtto · · Score: 1

      It was an obscure attempt to poke fun at the fact there are substantially fewer women than men in IT. Carry on. Talk amongst yourselves.

      --
      Solving Unix problems since 1989...
  5. Great news for 4chan. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    A lot of them will finally get jobs.

  6. Tax Breaks by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is there any tax breaks for hiring people with autism? I am too cynical.

    1. Re:Tax Breaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Is there any tax breaks for hiring people with autism? I am too cynical.

      Spot on. EU requirements of x %age of employees with y issues/minority when company employee count > y.

    2. Re:Tax Breaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Is there any tax breaks for hiring people with autism? I am too cynical.

      You're not being cynical at all. I don't know about .de, but in .cz, companies have the option of contracting a protected job position, where, in exchange for some special treatment of the employee by the employer (beneficial for the employee), the state agrees to pay a (significant) part of the employee's salary. I'd be surprised if the Germans didn't have something similar.

    3. Re:Tax Breaks by royallthefourth · · Score: 1

      Maybe they're betting they can get away with paying a terrible salary to people that have a hard time finding a job due to their disability. It's a business model that's worked well at Goodwill

      http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/208068/189/Goodwill-Pays-Disabled-Employees-Less-than-Minimum-Wage

    4. Re:Tax Breaks by Shompol · · Score: 1

      Definitely yes, and that is the main reason behind the decision. Still, the tax breaks are not likely to cover the expense of hiring someone, so they stake it on a claim that autistic people are capable of work in software.

    5. Re:Tax Breaks by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

      Some people recieving a disibility check from the federal goverment can lose benifits if they recieve too much income. The system is set up with the assumption that lots of people are faking thier illness. So you have bored people voluntearing at places like goodwill. These jobs are sometimes part of treatment programs.

    6. Re:Tax Breaks by D1G1T · · Score: 1

      I'll bet there are. And I'll bet you can pay them less than minimum wage, too, as part of some kind of "therapy" program.

    7. Re:Tax Breaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      i.e. German "Schwerbehindertengesetz" http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerbehindertenrecht_%28Deutschland%29

      "Private und öffentliche Arbeitgeber mit mindestens 20 Arbeitsplätzen sind verpflichtet, auf mindestens 5 % der Arbeitsplätze schwerbehinderte Menschen zu beschäftigen."

      => "employers with more than 20 employees are obligated to fill at least 5% of these spots with ppl with disabilities."

      if they don't, they are subject to extra fees, however many companies choose to rather pay these fees than deal with the extra hassles in case you need to fire employees with disabilities. the fees are not very high anyway, but i have no source atm. it's a couple hundred euro a year per unfilled spot iirc.

      Workers with disabilities also have better job protection, extra leave days, protection against discrimination, etc.

    8. Re:Tax Breaks by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

      Is there any tax breaks for hiring people with autism? I am too cynical.

      Don't know, but they will definitely be paying them less.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    9. Re:Tax Breaks by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Are you sure that's EU? I think it's just Germany (and apparently Spain and France). I'm pretty sure such a system has been proposed for the UK, but not implemented.

    10. Re:Tax Breaks by RobertinXinyang · · Score: 1

      This seems more sensible than the American way of consigning people that dont fit the social mold to a proverbal rubbish heap. The tax breaks probably cost less then the loss in national productivity that occurs when people are not given the opportunity to do their best because of minor things that, when looked at with an objective eye, don't reduce performance.

      I have an MBA from a state university; however, I also have very minor cerbral palsy, and yes, a just a touch of autism (used to be Aspergers untill the DSM change). The result is that, in America, the only jobs I am"qualified" for are washing dishes and watching security monitors. That is a waste of investment in training at a national level and leads to an overall loss in productuivity, both on a personal and a national level.

      Tax breaks are not the most expensive way to deal with finding suitable employment for th emildly disabled. What America is dong now looks like a much more expensive way.

    11. Re:Tax Breaks by QuantumBeep · · Score: 1

      Since 5% of people do not have disabilities, how is that supposed to work?

  7. Might be a good thing by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

    I have been saying for a long time if these are our "best and brightest" can we give our worst and dullest a chance to see if things get any better?

    Considering how poor SAP software is, this might produce a better product in the long run.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  8. Thorkil Sonne by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

    SAP aren't the first to do this.

    Thorkil Sonne at Specialisterne in Denmark has built a consultancy of autistics.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    1. Re:Thorkil Sonne by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Lol, I scanned it for "Denmark" and figured that was good enough. Guess I don't have that autistic attention to detail.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  9. Go read "The Speed of Dark", it's on this topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_Dark

    It's a good story in any case, and it's told from the point of view of an autistic person who works for a company that has specifically be hireing people, sounding very similar to this story

    David Lang

  10. "Help wanted. Non-autistics need not apply." by tomlouie · · Score: 1

    "Help wanted. Non-autistics need not apply."

  11. Re:I welcome your hiring practice... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    Firmness in your stated hiring practice will allow both the employee and employer satisfaction to rise, encouraging tight teamwork and clear improvement in fullfillment issues as well as business to business relationships.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  12. Re:Will they still still need X degree and pass ov by game+kid · · Score: 1

    No. They'll just demand 50 years of SAP experience.

    --
    You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
  13. Will Be Abused by EMG+at+MU · · Score: 2

    This will be abused. Either the autistic employees will be abused or the non autistic employees will be abused because they are not performing as well as the autistic employees. I think it's a really good thing that these people are being given opportunities, I just don't know how their "talents" won't be exploited by management. Low social functions could also mean not really speaking out when asked (forced) to work 12 hour days.

    Maybe I jump to cynical conclusions but it seems generalizing autistic people as some kind of software super people and then seeking to hire them is a bit like generalizing asians as good at math and seeking to hire them into math intensive positions.

    1. Re:Will Be Abused by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Low social functions could also mean not really speaking out when asked (forced) to work 12 hour days.

      I would expect the opposite. High social functioning people are usually the ones kept for 12 hour days because of their perceived social obligation.

    2. Re:Will Be Abused by Seumas · · Score: 1

      The article gives no indication that they're looking to hire low-functioning autistics. They're hiring high-functioning autistics. Most likely people you would work next to on a daily basis and never know there was anything "wrong" with them until they told you they had autism (or, my bet, asperger's) over lunch one day. We're talking "yeah, I have a hard time grasping sarcasm, sometimes" guys more than "I am afraid of chairs and mirrors" guys.

  14. Danish company founded by parent of autistic child by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The proxy at work hates /. so not bothering to login.

    Anyhow they might be following the footsteps of this Danish family that started a business with Autistic employees because their son was autistic and they wanted their to be somewhere for him to work when they were gone.
    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/30/putting-the-gifts-of-the-autistic-to-work/

    They found out their employees do excellent QA work and they even charge a premium for it.

    Don't let EA find out about they guy they had to tell to go home because he was working so late and didn't really notice.

    Tekfactory

  15. Autistic Superpowers by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    Not everyone with autism has superpowers. So will they be firing these people by the hundreds in order to weed out the gifted ones?

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    1. Re:Autistic Superpowers by turp182 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like regular developer higher practices to me. Hire them on as contractors for a six-month right-to-hire period.

      It's not a bad practice if it helps some people find jobs they would have otherwise never been able to achieve.

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
  16. Re:People with autism have a neural development... by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

    I think we have proof that you have a "neural development disorder".

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  17. Mindrot Virus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sounds like an idea from "A Deepness in the Sky". That is if they are mistaking autistic people as all having some sort of directable OCD that they can harness.

  18. HOT MUSTARD BURN BABY!!! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    Three hundred twenty three sausages on the biergarten grill. Definitely, yes, three hundred twenty three sausages on the biergarten grill. Three hundred twenty three, yes, definitely.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  19. I am an "aspie" by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Note: The Google translator is shit and my native language (brazilian portuguese) is complicated to translate, so expect ugly spelling errors

    As a bearer of Asperger's syndrome, I can - safely - affirm for you guys that the inability of social interaction is not my choice. It's like yours social skills being always "offline" with no way to be switched on, I am unable to get the "social signals" that everyone realizes without having to learn and I am treated as "invisible" by everyone or even worse, as "easy target".

    In contrast, it is easy, pretty easy to me to develop any complex application without neglecting the details and seeing both the whole and the part of the system, in my work I take care of all aspects of a local government system and the users are pretty satisfied with it. Too bad I have to live like a social outcast with no choice (because others actively reject me for not being exactly like them).

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    1. Re:I am an "aspie" by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      While researching Asperger's (after my son's diagnosis), I read that Aspies tend to think in If-Then scenarios. For my son, this means that using If-Then statements are highly effective if you want him to do something. For example, if you say "Get your shoes on!", he'll continue to watch TV. If you say "If you get your shoes on, then we can go to the store", he'll get his shoes on.

      As far as social situations are concerned, however, If-Thens are horrible. Social situations have tons of grey areas and complex rules that If-Thens can't account for. Someone with Asperger's can build up a "social rules dictionary" of If-Then statements, but it is tough to keep it all in your mind and "run" it real-time. ("If this person looks at me like this, then she means that... unless this situation comes up then this other thing.... unless a third thing happens then.....")

      Computers (programming in particular) is all about If-Thens. All of the loops and statements and code essentially boils down to "If you get this input, then do this." Thus, working with computers can come naturally to people with Asperger's unlike social situations.

      (I believe that I'm an Aspie as well considering my son's diagnosis and how alike my son and I are. I'd get diagnosed but that would cost money we don't have lying around and wouldn't help my son or me - as I've built up coping mechanisms for myself over the years.)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:I am an "aspie" by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      I think you nailed it, I also think frequently in the "if-then" way. It's hard for me to do something just to do it (example: go to park with no specific goal), but easy to do when they have a defined goal (if-then).

      While walking on the street, almost all time I pass scenarios in my head and try to decide what to do if one of them occurs (example: if a girl approach me without obvious reason, what will I do?).

      Using an analogy (sorry, no car analogy this time :-)), social interaction to me is like a program where most of the variables and functions are hidden with no way to determine what they do or how to use them.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    3. Re:I am an "aspie" by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      And, just to extend the programming analogy, if you are high-functioning enough you can learn to emulate many of the social "variables and functions," but your emulator will be slow and resource intensive compared to the "native code" that other people seem to have.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  20. Re:People with autism have a neural development... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

    You would have been more persuasive if you'd used all-caps on more words.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  21. This is nothing new by LukeWebber · · Score: 1

    Oracle employs autistics exclusively.

  22. For now, we recruit natural high-focus individuals by idontgno · · Score: 1

    Later, we'll create them. Vernor Vinge called it.

    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  23. Understanding Asperger by Livius · · Score: 2

    Everyone has varying degrees of ability in different areas.

    Some people are sensitive to non-verbal signals, and some less sensitive, and some really have to work at understanding them.

    People who genuinely have Asperger do not realize there is such a thing as non-verbal communication until someone teaches them. Their instinctive understanding of human nature does not even include it.

    Ironically, their abilities and temperament are actually highly prized in a great many employment situations.

    It's job searching where they're handicapped.

    1. Re:Understanding Asperger by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      People who genuinely have Asperger do not realize there is such a thing as non-verbal communication until someone teaches them

      Bingo.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
  24. Am I the only one that thought of Mentats? by dolfin · · Score: 1

    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. Stretch this kind of thing out over a long enough timeline and Autistics will become the human computers of the future.

  25. I foresee a problem. by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

    Autistic people are not just socially inept and prone to obsession. They're also really poor at understanding what they are supposed to be doing and staying on tasks that don't interest them. A few such people in an organization are OK. Managers can deal with one or two people who require extra supervision. But if your whole department is staffed with autistics, you're not going to get the job done and not be able to cope with the unexpected.

  26. Not so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You are confusing "Hockdruck" and "Hochdruck". "Hockdruck" is German for "squatting pressure". Uncomfortably related, though.

  27. Aut gallery by JimtownKelly · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of my college days, when Marriott hired a bunch of retards to bus the cafeteria tables and wash our dishes. An obviously exploitable group, which made everyone else feel like they were waiting for Godot.

    --
    -- Jimtown Kelly
  28. Not much news here by terminal.dk · · Score: 1

    Specialisterne (The danish company who started all this, people with autism as testers) are part of this. They already sell testing services to lots of customers, and are present in many countries. It is all about using the abilities that people have.
    Repetitive work is what developers tries to avoid, and what these people love. Perfect fit.
    We are just seeing some new articles on this, now that the German revenge for having lost the war (SAP) will also be customers.

  29. slight barrier by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    I'm definitely on the spectrum and I outscored almost the entire country on a standard Tek Systems programming assessment and my college instructors said I'm the best programmer they've ever seen and yet I still can't get a job because I only have a 2-year degree (two 2 year degrees actually). Until HR pulls their heads out of their asses and treating resumes like baseball cards instead of people, inferior programmers will keep getting hired over me and crappy software will continue to be the norm.

    1. Re:slight barrier by djrobxx · · Score: 1

      If you're the "best programmer evar" but nobody wants to hire you, figure out a niche that interests you (be it graphics, TCP/IP programming, databases, web/javascript, java, test automation, whatever). Get involved in some open source projects and get some real world experience to supplement your degrees. Recruiters are looking to fill a specific position. If they need someone to work on a project, they will be looking for resumes that demonstrate aptitude in the technologies they need.

      I got my very first programming job not because of the classes I took in college, but because I spent my spare time heavily modifying a BBS software written in 'C'. The firm that hired me needed someone to write a dial-in remote access module, and I had general coding skills combined with experience in the area that they needed me to have experience in. I learned far more working for that company than I ever did in school!

  30. The USA wrote the German labor laws by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    http://www.salon.com/2010/08/25/german_usa_working_life_ext2010/
    "How did Germany become such a great place to work in the first place?
        The Allies did it. This whole European model came, to some extent, from the New Deal. Our real history and tradition is what we created in Europe. Occupying Germany after WWII, the 1945 European constitutions, the UN Charter of Human Rights all came from Eleanor Roosevelt and the New Dealers. All of it got worked into the constitutions of Europe and helped shape their social democracies. It came from us. The papal encyclicals on labor, it came from the Americans."

    Otherwise, great points.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
    1. Re:The USA wrote the German labor laws by cornjones · · Score: 1

      Too bad we have strayed so far from those points our selves.

      Thanks for the link, i find it very interesting. I also think there is a longer view of history in Europe that allows/forces people to think longer term. So while we may have put a lot of good ideas into law, the societal values are not all our doing.