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Snowden's Big Truth: We Are All Less Free
chicksdaddy writes "In the days since stories based on classified information leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden hit the headlines, a string of reports and editorials claim that he had his facts wrong, accuse him of treason – or both. Others have accused journalists like Glen Greenwald of The Guardian of rushing to print before they had all the facts. All of these criticisms could be valid. Technology firms may not have given intelligence agencies unfettered and unchecked access to their users' data. Edward Snowden may be, as the New York Times's David Brooks suggests, one of those 20-something-men leading a 'life unshaped by the mediating institutions of civil society.' All those critiques may be true without undermining the larger truth of Snowden's revelation: in an age of global, networked communications and interactions, we are all a lot less free than we thought we were. I say this because nobody has seriously challenged the basic truth of Snowden's leak: that many of the world's leading telecommunications and technology firms are regularly divulging information about their users' activities and communications to law enforcement and intelligence agencies based on warrantless requests and court reviews that are hidden from public scrutiny. It hasn't always been so."
Bruce Schneier has published an opinion piece saying that while Snowden did break the law, we need to investigate the government before any prosecution occurs. (Schneier's piece is one in a series on the subject.) Snowden himself said in an interview today that the U.S. government has been pursuing hacking operations against China for years.
That is all.
Solving Unix problems since 1989...
absolute power corrupts....
This thought keeps popping into my head. Think about all this crap that has been uncovered. And you want to put these people in charge of net neutrality?
Are birds free from the chains of the skyway?
If Snowden keeps calling the government out on its lies and providing evidence that embarrasses those currently in power, he will be made to disappear without any trial at all.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
None of the warrents said something like
"All emails stored on VZ servers (listed below) that mention pressurecookers as bombs from the 723 people (listed below) who visited terrorist training camps (listed below) in 2010-2013."
Given the damage he's done to the US and the West, he will suffer consequences, there's no doubt about that.
While it raises important issues, I'm struggling to find sympathy for him personally, as he has committed an extremely serious act of treason. By doing what he did, he's ended himself as surely as if he'd put a gun to his own head. Except he'll probably have the US government do it for him (or if he's lucky, life in supermax).
You can't do what he did, and not expect consequences.
From the Dictator (2012) - start at 0:28 for the meat.
And as somewhere here on /. said (to paraphrase) "NSA's wiretapping stopped the bombing in Boston. Right?"
We should scream that in every moron's ear who says they "feel safer" with this monitoring.
No, seriously - thank you.
Somebody had to have the balls to point this out to the ignorant masses.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
A few things scare me about this topic so far (and it's mostly about discussion rather than the revelations):
- People aren't doing anything / can't do anything about this issue even if they wanted to :/
- People are actually siding with the government and defending them instead of fighting for privacy & freedom
- Big corporations could help us out but what good would storing every piece of user data in encrypted format do for them (no ad money based on our data = no free site anymore, they would just turn into free service providers for their service)
- American's politicians & lawyers are completely paid off by major corporations and if the root of all evil is not separated from the law of the land, you should not expect any freedom or privacy, and it's scary that the American population is more concered about TV shows like The Voice rather than their freedom...
-- No one's really willing to risk their lives or time because right now it's "just good enough", maybe you guys need to hit rock bottom first completely before any change happens or takes place
I'm not really sure what to say or do either, but I'm Canadian and the NSA is probably seeing this as well. Hi NSA, I love you!
- stoops
We knew that. What is new is some of the details of the mechanisms, there is also a new catchy project name: Prism.
So, what will happen next? Back to apathy - as after Echelon, Swift etc...? Or is it different this time?
Possible outcomes, from more to less probable: 1; nothing, 2. people start fighting back using encryption; 3. governments stop abusing their power.
People put this data online and most it is sent unencrypted. It was pretty much a certainty that internet traffic was being intercepted. The only thing missing was confirmation. So why is it even news? The Internet generation cooked this soup and now they must eat it.
The real joke in all of this is that people still manage call the old Eastern Bloc countries surveillance states without blushing.
That statement, that news shouldn't be published until "all the facts" are known is ludicrous. I'm no conspiracy nut, but we still don't have "all the facts" on the JFK assassination. But it would be silly to have ignored it, and just started referring to President Johnson one day.
This is what happens when a government declares 'War' on an idea, or other abstract.
Crusades
Spanish Inquisition
Prohibition
The War on Drugs
The War on Terrorism
etc.
We don't seem able to learn from history, or past mistakes.
We have allowed the Constitution to be folded, spindled, and mutilated...then used for asswipe.
We are overdue for another Revolution.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
inconveniencing those who have power, without having any power himself
anonymity is the only defense the weak have against the powerful, that is why the powerful are working so hard to destroy it
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
Had to be said.
life unshaped by the mediating institutions of civil society
would this be the same civil society whose past mediations have helped perpetuate the institution of slavery and policies of racial discrimination? or is this some other, perfectly enlightened civil society that has at some point between those primeval days and now descended from the heavens to rid us of the need for such crackpots and radicals as might resist its influence?
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
This is a high-school dropout who gave up a $200k yr. job, an acrobat girlfriend and was living in Hawaii -- things I would have given my left nut to have.
Yes, he gave that all up because, get this, he is one of the few people in this nation that actually understands the Constitution.
The Constitution is the highest law in the land. It's supposed to control our government so they do not do PRECISELY what they are doing. It's supposed to prevent us from falling into tyranny.
But most of us do not care. He did. He's a hero.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
I don't get the "less free" assertion. All of the means of spying on citizens requires using recent technology.
If we only partake in activities we did in the 60s, we won't get monitored much. We are vastly, vastly more free than we ever were. It's just that to use certain types of technology, we have to accept that we're being watched. We still have choices - more than we ever did.
and he says what you don't want to hear said about American hacking of China, that you've been hacking us for years, what do you do now, hypocritical Americans? Of course, it's the embodiment of evil when the other team does it and just fine when your team does it, right?
You can always tell who the mentally handicapped people are by their belief in freedom.
Intelligent people know, that as long as there is a power disparity, the weak will never have freedom.
"Freedom is the illusion that rich people give to middle-class people to enslave the poor" - Howard Zinn.
Rich people LOVE giving the middle-class that artificial sense of power. Why do you think you're allowed to have guns? To defend against a tyrannical government? =^D
We liberals have been telling dumbass conservative/libertarian for years, that, sorry, no freedom for you. They never seem to listen, probably because they have a lower-IQ, like this high-school dropout Snowden guy. "WHAT? WE HAVE NO POWER? THAT CAN'T BE! I THOUGHT WE WERE AWESOME?!"
Sorry you 14-year-old libertarians, but you don't get to do what you want in this life, because you do not have power. I'm sure it's nice and all to have so much faith and belief in oneself, with such a high sense of precious-snowflake self-esteem, but you know who's more awesome than you? THE PEOPLE WITH MORE POWER.
Intelligence is knowing your personal weaknesses, and libertarians are the LEAST intelligent members of society.
You libertarians need to do what we liberals do, that is, know your weakness, and operate within society from there.
Don't EVER be a libertarian. Publicly saying you have "freedom" is basically telling a liberal you are clueless.
From a previous post, here's the collected list of suggested actions people can take to help change things.
Have more ideas? Please post below.
Links worthy of attention:
http://anticorruptionact.org/
http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html
http://action.fairelectionsnow.org/fairelections
http://represent.us/
http://www.protectourdemocracy.com/
http://www.wolf-pac.com/
https://www.unpac.org/
http://www.thirty-thousand.org/
Suggestion #1:
(My idea): If people could band together and agree to vote out the incumbent (senator, representative, president) whenever one of these incidents crop up, there would be incentive for politicians to better serve the people in order to continue in office. This would mean giving up party loyalty and the idea of "lessor of two evils", which a lot of people won't do. Some congressional elections are quite close, so 2,000 or so petitioners might be enough to swing a future election.
Someone added: Vote them out AND remove their lifetime, taxpayer-funded, free health care. See how fast the health care system gets fixed.
Someone added:You can start by letting your house and senate rep know how you feel about this issue / patriot act and encourage those you know to do the same.
If enough people let their representivies know how they feel obviously those officials who want to be reelected will tend to take notice. We have seen what happens when wikipedia and google go "dark", congressional switchboards melt and the 180's start to pile up.
I added: Fax is considered the best way to contact a congressperson, especially if it is on corporate letterhead.
Suggestion #2:
Tor, I2dP and the likes. Let's build a new common internet over the internet. Full strong anonymity and integrity. Transform what an eavesdropper would see in a huge cypherpunk clusterfuck.
Taking back what's ours through technology and educated practices.
Let's go back to the 90' where the internet was a place for knowledgeable and cooperative people.
Someone Added: Let's go full scale by deploying small wireless routers across the globe creating a real mesh network as internet was designed to be!
Suggestion #3:
A first step might be understanding the extent towards which the government actually disagrees with the people. Are we talking about a situation where the government is enacting unpopular policies that people oppose? Or are we talking about a situation where people support the policies? Because the solutions to those two situations are very different.
In many cases involving "national security", I think the situation is closer to the second one. "Tough on X" policies are quite popular, and politicians often pander to people by enacting them. The USA Patriot Act, for example, was hugely popular when it was passed. And in general, politicians get voted out of office more often for being not "tough" on crime and terrorism and whatever else, than for being too over-the-top in pursuing those policies.
Suggestion #4:
What I feel is needed is a true 3rd party, not 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th parties, such as Green, Tea Party, Libertarian; we need an agreeable third party that can compete against the two majors without a lot of interference from small parties. We need a consensus third party.
Suggestion #5:
Replace the voting system. Plurality voting will always lead to the mess we have now. The only contribution towards politics I've made in
All NFL teams will be required to share their entire playbook prior to the game and must request permission from the defense to execute a play. What part of national secrets does this guy not get? To be against government is one thing, but to literally tell our enemies what we do? DUMB!
Do you think that anyone who sees Snowden as a hero considers NSA or CIA to be on their "team"?
Everyone isn't a nationalist, you know.
I think you sort have missed the whole reaction on this website...
Most want to free him and lynch who he ratted out.
"And yet the Tea Party thugs were demanding government "do whatever it takes" post-9/11... "
You knew about the Tea Party in late 2001? What else did you know about that was still in the future? Lemme guess, you knew about Katrina and didn't warn us? You bastard!
Edward Snowden has defected to China.
Currently, only North Koreans will defect to China.
Therefore we can conclude that Snowden is from North Korea or a comparable nation.
Q.E.D.
New Economic Perspectives
"A few things scare me about this topic so far "
Let me sum up what scares you more simply: "Not everyone agrees with me on an issue that is a lot more nuanced than I portrayed it."
Realistically, the federal government will never relinquish the power that it has usurped - our right to be secure in our persons, papers, and effects will never be respected under the status quo.
The realistic course of action is to focus on state legislatures, and call a convention to forcibly remove these noxious elements from the sphere of federal power. The procedure to do so is quite clear:
The first question before us is clear: do we have agreeable legislatures in two thirds of the states, to initiate the process?
The next question is what needs to change, from what and to what? Do we need an obudsman, an office with full subpoena power over all the other branches, answerable to state legislatures? That might do it.
The beehive grows more crowded. With seven billion souls on Earth and nine billion expected all too soon it is no wonder that we sense a loss of privacy and loss of individual liberty. The dullards who occupy our planet do not want to confront over population as the root cause of almost all of our issues.
Maybe when crowing causes absolute chaos the idea that most people should not be allowed to reproduce at all will catch on.
“In all your Amours you should prefer old Women to young ones. You call this a Paradox, and demand my Reasons. They are these:
1. Because as they have more Knowledge of the World and their Minds are better stor’d with Observations, their Conversation is more improving and more lastingly agreable.
2. Because when Women cease to be handsome, they study to be good. To maintain their Influence over Men, they supply the Diminution of Beauty by an Augmentation of Utility. They learn to do a 1000 Services small and great, and are the most tender and useful of all Friends when you are sick. Thus they continue amiable. And hence there is hardly such a thing to be found as an old Woman who is not a good Woman.
3. Because there is no hazard of Children, which irregularly produc’d may be attended with much Inconvenience.
4. Because thro’ more Experience, they are more prudent and discreet in conducting an Intrigue to prevent Suspicion. The Commerce with them is therefore safer with regard to your Reputation. And with regard to theirs, if the Affair should happen to be known, considerate People might be rather inclin’d to excuse an old Woman who would kindly take care of a young Man, form his Manners by her good Counsels, and prevent his ruining his Health and Fortune among mercenary Prostitutes.
5. Because in every Animal that walks upright, the Deficiency of the Fluids that fill the Muscles appears first in the highest Part: The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.
6. Because the Sin is less. The debauching a Virgin may be her Ruin, and make her for Life unhappy.
7. Because the Compunction is less. The having made a young Girl miserable may give you frequent bitter Reflections; none of which can attend the making an old Woman happy.
8thly and Lastly They are so grateful!!”
Maybe if the world was more transparent and honest about how we are all dealing with each other we could make informed opinions. Secrecy and propaganda generate the hypocrisy because people become emotionally entrenched in what they believe and when the facts contradict those feelings the majority of humans will move straight to some form of denial / justification.
Humanity needs to be treated like an adult, not like a child that the few in power need to "manage", we can all see where it has gotten us.....
http://slashdot.org/story/06/05/11/1216245/the-nsa-knows-who-youve-called
And a seven-year-old story at that! Shame on you, Slashdot editors!
Are you suggesting that since our anal orifice is already stretched we should just roll over and get out the Vaseline(Tm) ?
...and yet how off the mark you are.
Here... let me fix that analogy of yours so it reflects reality.
Team A would check every other team's playbook without their knowledge.
They would do it by making copies of said playbooks naturally.
But they would also by spying on every coach of every team, every player of every team, their family members, neighbors, anyone who ever had any contact with them, including the players, families and everyone even remotely connected to players on the team A.
Would that be OK with you? One team doing all that spying so they could win every, single game? OK?
Now imagine that team A is Russia.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
The NSA has one last hole in its program to spy on every citizen- the home in which the citizen lives. Traditionally, throughout Human history, the residencies of civilians have provided refuge from organised efforts of intelligence gathering. This fact, for instance, has allowed the emergence of new political and religious movements, movements that the regimes at the time were determined to crush at birth.
Now Microsoft has partnered with the NSA to solve this problem. The Xbox One (now more commonly known as the XBone or XB1) has been designed from the ground up to spy on people in their own homes.
The XBone comes with a so-called Kinect sensor block. This block contains ordinary and infra-red high definition cameras. It also includes a 'depth processing' system that can easily extract Humans from the background, and apply a skeletal recognition algorithm to track body movement and shape (say when people are having sex). The final sensor is a microphone array that can clearly pick-up the conservations of multiple people in the room (and frequently, adjoining rooms as well).
While the XBone is receiving mains power, the Kinect is fully functioning and processing input. It CANNOT be switched off. If it suffers ANY hardware fault, the console immediately stops working. If the cameras are set facing the wall, or taped over, the console pesters the user to re-calibrate the Kinect.
All software developers (games and apps) must, at the very least, include code to request user calibration of Kinect, even if the app/game doesn't use Kinect features to any significant degree. All game/app interfaces MUST be Kinect aware (allow Kinect gestures to replace input from the controllers). At no time is the user allowed to think non-Kinect use of the console is normal.
Microsoft dedicates at least 1/4 of XBone's hardware resources to processing the data produced by the Kinect sensor system. These resources CANNOT be re-assigned to, say, a AAA high-graphic intensive game. The hardware available to Kinect includes real-time video-compression and encryption.
By default (and this CANNOT be disabled by the user) the Kinect is set to constantly monitor each new person who enters the room (and the times). A full face photograph is taken of each new person. This data is uploaded to remote servers on the Internet at least once each 24 hour period. While the Internet connection is off, this data is stored in a dedicated area of the HDD as an encrypted group of files, for later uploading.
All Internet connected XBones can be remotely programmed with a list of 'trigger' events that trigger against various data conditions recognised by the Kinect sensors. The triggers can include things like gunshots, a male shouting at a female, a given person entering the room, or people in the room moving in a particular way. When any trigger condition occurs, the console can begin streaming video data from the Kinect to either the HDD (for later uploading) or to a remote Internet server if the Internet is currently connected.
Of course, remote intelligence personnel can connect to ANY XBone currently on the Internet, and receive live output from the Kinect sensors regardless of what the console owner is currently doing. The console owner will have ZERO idea this is happening, unless they monitor their outbound Internet traffic. Even then, Microsoft has a program of constantly bursting data to and from each connected console to 'groom' the owner to expect unexplained Internet traffic via the console.
In many ways, Snowden's announcements (which others have correctly pointed out simply confirm data that leaked years ago) show that the NSA is 'bored' with their current level of data collection, now it is old hat to suck and save all regular Internet/phone traffic. Team Obama is desperate to go into places the NSA has never gone before. Much of the intent is the power powerful scumbags think they gain when they can become the supreme 'peeping-tom' and peer into the homes of millions of citizens at will.
do we really want smart db's without human oversight?
I have been investigating the "data leakage" phenomenon, using common detective methods, for a few years. the evidence I have unearthed indicates Snowden not lying. In other words, Snowden confirms what empirical evidences show. that government agencies have access to internet and radio-phone traffic, and that they do not only record phone numbers and tabulate instances, header-correlate emails and number and flag suspicious word usages. They follow up. They follow up from all the above, and from site-visit data. They mine email accounts, obtain sider array phone conversation recordings and so forth, for both sides in flagged-for-monitor instances. What is incorrect is the suggestion that telecommunication companies "divulge" information. Today the telecoms are passive. they simply allow the government and extra-governmental (private and foreign-national) agencies to access, in real time and in storage. Contractors working for these are, of course, these, and have the access they require to do the work their employers hire them to do.
only good thing this BS has done: Make mainstream media aware of how much access (unaccountable) contractors like Booz/Allen have to gov't data...
Snowden's inadvertent message we should ALL heed: Dorks like me have access to shit we have no business accessing
**everything else** about this is ridiculous.
Snowden himself is an idiot. He has used internet-troll level logic and a dork's understanding of social movements to completely screw up his life for no gain whatsoever.
If he wanted to 'start a conversation' he should have leaked this anonymously. The fact that he revealed himself, espcially given the content of his revealations (gov't spying program)...its' just the height of stupidity.
He broke the law, I hope he goes to Federal Prison.
Let Bradley Manning out and throw this guy in instead...done.
Thank you Dave Raggett
When China asserts its border claims, it's defending Chinese territorial sovereignty
When China's neighbors assert their border claims, it's aggression against China.
Also, the popular reply around /. to articles about the US government calling out China for hacking is "Everyone does it, suck it up". Should that not apply here as well?
If this government were NOT to mandate net neutrality, what would change with respect to this NSA tapping?
NOTHING.
Why?
Because they have nothing to do with it.
But what Net Neutrality WILL do for you is ensure that you are not on a toll road to get on the internet.
You know all those freedoms you cry you have so loudly? THEY are a "Net neutrality" law. But you don't want them repealed, do you? I mean, you're whining about one of those "Net Neutrality" laws from the government being breeched now, aren't you?
its really presumptous to say someone broke a law without a fair trial
We call them the American version of 50 cents party. Being paid by the Jewish controlled government to post stuff. They hate China because it is their main archrival.
The NSA started partitioning en-masse today.
Twitter stood up to the government, showing that it can be done. Shame on these other big companies, may be the NSA threatened to send the IRS after these tax thieves. Fuck you Google (so much for the slogan), Microsoft, Facebook, Apple and others. Rich companies made rich by their users. We can all start by using these companies lesser and lesser and finding alternatives, however long it takes.
Before or after he decided to commit subterfuge? I've worked with a few unconscionable employers over the years. Usually walking out seems more effective than trying to outspy the U.S. government.
I guess it all depends on how big a scumbag you want to be before you take a government job.
Every one of you government welfare types deserve to choke to death on your own vomit.
overall this BS: we knew this in 2006 (see link below)...we just didn't know the name and that 500,000 dork contractors could access it....
to the comment...ah, the trolling begins...first when i point out that "Snowden is an idiot" that is in *no* way a pass on the NSA. That's a *different issue*...this is about his choices...
you fired off a bunch of questions that I already answered, but b/c you quoted me and said I'm being 'hateful' it makes your trolling more surreptitious...you didn't try to contradict my argument: this started a conversation that needed to happen in the mainstream media, but Snowden's way of doing it was as dumb as possible
not necessary...but I would like some genuine discussion...
see, here's who was not surprised by PRISM: anarchists, 'libertarians', illuminati, and IT PROFESSIONALS
because IT workers actually understand signal communications concepts...if data is transmitted it is interceptable
another Red Herring is that these are *new* revelations...this was authorized **BY CONGRESS** in the Patriot Act...Obama can't make Congress undo it...he has brought to light what Bush started and changed what he could realistically...
this was reported on in 2006 "NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls"
So Snowden is an idiot...he threw away his life on a dork's gamble based on internet-troll logic...he will not get a book deal or have mass suporters like Bradley Manning...
Thank you Dave Raggett
On 9/11 3000 Americans died in terrorist attacks.
Other losses incurred as a result were much worse.
I don't agree with the parent opinion, however I'm modding it as +1 underrated and posting AC in an attempt to balance the unprincipled jerk who thought it was a good idea to suppress unpopular opinion with flamebait/troll.
While I agree completely, it's more about the exchange rate than anything else...
Prove the fsck otherwise.
How the hell does the government knowing calling patterns even REMOTELY limit your freedom to live your life? You don's lose any rights or freedoms by being watched. You are just a bunch of paranoid sheep. I bet you are the same people who have Facebook accounts. Guess what? Facebook SELLS all your viewing/texting/like habits in the same way. Facebook (just like the government) does not use exact personal data, just patterns, but I don't hear you whiners crying about that.
Get a life.
Are we less free than before 9/11? Or were our freedoms before 9/11 an illusion to begin with? If one is not free then no one is free...
I can guarantee almost no one wants total freedom, it involves to much personal responsibility.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
It's not a bipolar situation. Neither the NSC, CIA or the Chinese are on 'our' team.
And who the fuck is the ref, anyway? I wanna call a few fouls.
I am genuinely curious
I always have that hunch that in this cyberworld that we live in, everybody is hacking everybody else --- just like the good ol' pre-cyberworld time, everybody's spies are spying on everybody-else
Even close allies like US-Israel, they spied on each others all the time
But the thing that I genuine do not understand is, why is USA so loudly proclaiming to the world that China is hacking USA while US is doing the same thing (or perhaps more) to China ??
It's like a boxing match -- boxer A trading punches with boxer B -- and only boxer B crying foul every single time boxer A's punch lands on him
It's getting ridiculous, man, very very VERY ridiculous !!
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
The flaw in your logic is the postal service. They are now maintaining images of the exterior of every piece of mail that they process. The exteriors of written correspondence are also part of my effects. This intrusion, useful as it has been, violates the 4th.
Perhaps a convention could clarify our privacy rights - if Google, Verizon, Microsoft, et al. cannot guarantee privacy from all intrusions, then they cannot prevent any intrusions. From this moment forward, all information on 3rd party carriers must be opened to public inspection. Everything. I get to hear all of your phone calls, read all of your email, and see all of your searches, and you get the same access to mine.
The court rulings have established unequal privilege and power for a shadow government, and I do not believe that they are correct. The majority of U.S. citizens appear to agree with me.
We've been having serious national problems in the political realm since Nixon because the powerful think they own the populace and do not have to abide by the rules for the rest of us. What do you suggest we do?
While I am not a tin-foil hat afficitionado, I can see both sides of this one. I don't want to pay for this data to be observed, evaluated, stored and ... of course backed up and so on... I am not too concerned about others knowing what I am doing or thinking... in fact, I'd be proud if someone cared about what i though!
Just like I don't want to pay for the health insurance for someone who doesn't wear a helmet, I don't care to pay for someone to monitor every utterence of everybody....
Given a list of suspicious people... it seems to be within (existing) legal boundaries to monitor what that small subset says.. Lets stick with that. Oh.. and keep the costs down, OK?
Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
.. maybe there should be a focused, dedicated project trying to drown all the information in misinformation...
This post is provided without warranty as to reliability, accuracy or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose.
Those that hunt Snowden and bring him to ground will always look over their own shoulders until they are brought to ground. The truth is like a seed, there are all sorts of ground to flourish in, or wither in. When it finally takes root, watch out.
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
Boring! This guy is no prophet. He's not that smart really. Just a dumb stooge being controlled by someone else.
Does anybody produce a T-shirt that says something like:
Warning: This is a life unshaped by the mediating institutions of civil society
I want one.
So typical... Since it's said the NSA snoops on the whole world BUT the citizens of usa.
Privacy is terrorism.
We've been less free for some time. We are compelled under threat of IRS harassment to buy a government approved health insurance, overseen by Obama's leftist death panels. A few dickheads snooping my emails seems small by comparison.
an ill wind that blows no good
That is all
do you
a. go to prison for 30 years
b. pay a zillion dollars
c. get extradited
d. get a slap on the wrist b/c companies do it al the time
Likely that Barak Obama has already signed a death order on Edward Snowden.
Why ?
The existence of Edward Snowden makes a lie of Obama, Biden, all of their staffs, all Cabinet Secretaries and Departments Staffs, all of the National Security Council, all ambassadors and staffs of the USA foreign missions, all Federal Court Judges most of all the Supreme Court Justices and their staffs, the Federal Court System and all Military personnel under DoD stewardship and last but not least all of the USA Congressional representative and their staffs.
The question should be: How can President (Dictator) Obama NOT issue a kill order on Edward Snowden when Edward Snowden has taken away the most precious thing of Obama and his unelected and elected government, ... CREDIBILITY.
What a perfect Coup de Grace !
I have great resepect for Mr. Schneier, but I call bullshit on the premise that he broke the law on the basis that something that has already been declared to be a violation of the Fourth Amendment, then had that declaration classified, and then was knowingly and willfully proceeded with, cannot be classified. You cannot hide a crime by classifying it. That is what whistleblowing is all about, and there are laws that protect whistleblowers.
The time has come to interrupt and correct anyone who says that Snowden is a traitor or that he broke the law, because anything that they base on that is incorrect.
and again, and again, and nobody ever seems to answer me. probably because what he did isnt illegal.
TL;DR A lot of people haven't read the Constitution or know why we have it.
A general oath to uphold the constitution binds one with greater moral strength than does an oath of secrecy to a subdivision of a particular branch of government. Snowden has both moral and legal grounds to stand upon.
Exactly. The issue is that many people seem to not care about the constitution, and such mindsets are poisonous to the pursuit of liberty.
Check UIDs. I'm COLD FJORD(826450). User COID FJORD(2949869) has impersonated me. Don't confuse us if he trolls you.
Having watched the cybersecurity senate hearing earlier today some amusing highlights.
Senator asks what law permits collection of everyones phone records without any suspicion... Answer our secret interpretation of law is classified.
Senator sounds defcon 1 citing hundreds of thousands of "cyber attacks" against the US government systems every hour.
Boston mentioned in context of justification for a program.
Head of NSA says we collect all data so that we can reference it later if we need to...there is no other way to do it.. Like telcoms don't retain CDRs for years and couldn't provide them to a spooky TLA with a proper warrant.
We are less safe because our elected officials fail us.
All you have to do is wear a rubber mask that looks like George Bush whenever you are in the room with the gadget. Its a perfectly reasonable trade-off.
Every month like clockwork 1300 people are killed in this country. No "terror" fearing talking heads seem to give two shits about that.
A 9/11 every 3 months and still endless shit about us being "less safe" cuz of something that happened 12 years ago.
The actual tragedy are politicians who waste countless billions on militiary industrial complex with statistically irrelevant results while that money stands a much better chance of saving real lives if used for other purposes...assuming that is actually what they care soo much about.
Heck you can save lives to unecessary car accidents and save money in the process just by reigning in the TSA.
I heard on the news that Saddam Hussain was working with the terrorists. Year after year our officials make shit up and lie to us, start wars based on knowingly dubious and false information and none of them go to jail not a single goddamn one of them. Sell weapons to Iranians to raise money to fight wars in Nicaragua and everyone gets pardoned. Lie after lie, abuse after abuse, secret courts, secret laws.
The government does not deserve our trust. No government on earth deserves the trust of its people.
"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head."
'But Then It Was Too Late'
Americans must chose.
I'll try to shed some light on this, as an American speaking to a Canadian. Small preface, because I think it's warranted:
I'm a 36 year old white American of introverted personality who has never felt any kind of patriotism towards his country (the concept eludes me), nor (by choice) partakes in the process which so many Americans claim is the most important part of our country: voting. I'm the odd man out, but more importantly I'm just one man with his own opinion -- mine are no more right or wrong than the next.
I've thought about all this ("the state of our nation", why Americans are the way they are, etc.) since I was roughly 14. How often I've pondered it has gradually increased over the years, solely because of all the events going on within our country. I stopped reading newspapers, online news/media, etc. (barring occasional things -- the Snowden situation is one of them) in 2000 when one day I opened up CNN's home page and every single headline in every single category had negative connotations (denotations?). I am not a good writer (I am too verbose, and my vocabulary is limited due to my education), but I did write something eloquent and terse about this last month that I feel proud about and feel is relevant to your question/comment (will get to that in a moment).
Most of the items you listed off can all be explained by one single trait: apathy. Some might say lazy, but I don't think that's necessarily the right word nor true. In my opinion, it started roughly in the early 90s and has progressively gotten worse. Folks older than me will likely state it began way before that but I'd disagree, citing the opposition to the Vietnam war (mid-60s to early 70s) as my main rebuttal; that was the last real, widespread, and massive "uprising" we Americans held. The keyword here is massive, because our governments (local, state, and federal) do not care about a few hundred people here and there. For example the Occupy Wall Street movement did absolutely nothing to impact people's thought processes or make them question their ethics -- and those are what need to happen for us to heal as a country. This has nothing to do with religion, this has to do with refocusing on the concept of the "Right Thing(tm)" and having that be our driving force. I'm not sure how or where to start in that process either, but a good friend of mine suggested bringing back war gardens and the simple process of getting to know your immediate neighbours (to the point of considering them friends); the concept here is to change thinking about oneself and instead think about others or "the group".
As for what I wrote last month: a broadband/tech forum I frequent mentioned the DOJ demanding telephone records from the Associated Press (and here's some more information if you wish to read it). This didn't shock me one bit, because you could say I've grown apathetic to this type of thing happening in our country: a strange combination form of paranoia and hastiness running rampant throughout the government and its citizens. This isn't a new thing to me, it's been going on for a long time (like I said, at least 20 years).
A person replied to the news, shocked by what had been transpiring "recently" (not sure what hole they were living in, but that's okay), which prompted another individual to ask "How many gross violations of the Constitution would it take for people to rise up against an unjust government?".
I chose to respond.
It's very hard to put into text the thoughts and feelings folks have about what's been going on, but it
Thank you Col. Boyd & Col. Wyly
********************
Fourth Generation Warfare: What Does It Mean to Every Marine?
Defense and the National Interest 03-01-95 Col Michael D. Wyly, USMC (Ret)
Originally published by the Marine Corps Gazette, March 1995.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/825219/posts
While it has always been important for Marines to understand the Constitution they have sworn to defend, developments in fourth generation warfare now make it imperative.
Fourth generation war is war between cultures. It defies the old boundaries of nation state. It is war between special interest groups, races, and religions. It is war that seeks to avoid our military power and neutralize it by dividing us from within. We should be careful not to become alarmist. Seeing a cultural enemy behind every bush could quickly replace the anti-Communist syndrome that was often carried to extremes. It could produce an inquisition that would make the McCarthy witchhunts of the 1950s seem like children's hide and seek. At the same time, however, it would be naive to presume there are no enemies out there just because the Communists are gone. A fourth generation enemy seeks to destroy cultures, societies, businesses, nation states, or military organizations most effectively by dividing them internally.
There is much, much more that needs to be said about how to defeat a fourth generation enemy than I am going to write about here. But in a few words I can present the essentials very clearly.
First, we must expect the unexpected in terms of new kinds of enemies and new kinds of forces that assume the function of soldiers and nondescript war makers. We, cannot afford to dismiss any adversary as contemptible, no matter how primitive and unconventional he may app ear. Instead, we must discover his strengths and how to avoid them; his weaknesses, and how to attack them. We must be willing to realize that our real enemy is as likely to appear within our own borders as without. If our laws and self image of our role as military professionals do not allow for this, we need to change them.
Second, we must come to grips with the fact that our traditional form of warfare, i.e., high tech with overwhelming firepower delivered from a distant standoff, no longer solves problems. We must be expert infantrymen. For those who have not yet grasped it, in Vietnam, where our enemy's behavior was moving toward that of the fourth generation soldier, the major flaw in the U.S. military was that it neglected the art of the foot soldier. Events since Vietnam have reinforced this point. Many of us missed this point when we were in Vietnam because we were foot soldiers. We sometimes believed we were the center of attention though our top level seniors considered us a sideshow. But anyone who listened carefully to a single Pentagon briefing would have seen that the Military Assistance Command, our joint Chiefs, the Defense Department, and the President were depending not on the infantry but on bombs, artillery shells, and the high technology of the era this in what was clearly an infantry war. Fourth generation warfare will also be infantry warfare, war up close, in and among the people, and the infantrymen who can fight it cannot come from the low end of the intelligence curve. Ironically, in this age of technology, it is in the direction of the foot soldier that modern war demands we now move.
Third, the Corps must be a bastion of Americans who really do support and defend the Constitution of the United States. To many of our politicians and judges, pressing issues outweigh the parameters the Constitution sets down. The Corps must become a repository of those rare Americans who read the document, know it, and believe in it. This must be so, partly because we swore we would, but mostly because it is the source of the freedom for which we fight.
Politics in a military organization is wrong. But whether or not we support the Constitution is not a political matter. It has not been since 1789, when it
The issue is that many people seem to not care about the constitution, and such mindsets are poisonous to the pursuit of liberty.
First thing you've ever written on Slashdot that I agree with. Doesn't explain any of the other rubbish you've posted, unfortunately.
Yes many people considers giving up privacy and even some personal freedoms as an acceptable cost for any marginal effect on personal security, good for them.
But IMHO the much bigger issue is how they threw this in effect in secrecy without public debate. I think what both the NSA and the government learned from this, is that it really is better to ask for forgiveness (if caught) then permission.
Big Brother says that Oceania has alway been at war with Eastasia, Winston Smith!
Mr. Snowden is a HERO in any sense of the word. He has the moral fortitude to stand up for his Rights and Freedoms against an illegitimate and hostile regime. He does this at great peril to himself and his family / friends, to attempt to secure a better future for everyone. Support him by contacting your local and regional politicians and demand full disclosure of these illegal activities, destruction of all data, arrests of all persons involved in planning and implementing these intrusive technologies, strict laws to force full transparency in the future, and strict laws with penalties against law enforcement or spy agencies for any future Rights violations.
"I'm not really sure what to say or do either, but I'm Canadian and the NSA is probably seeing this as well. Hi NSA, I love you!"
The correct thing to say is "Hi NSA and CSIS. If I'm travelling, please don't send me to Syria for further interrogation if it turns out you think someone I've communicated with might be a terrorist. Thanks."
> Bruce Schneier has published an opinion piece saying that while Snowden did break the law, we need to investigate the government before any prosecution occurs.
The law is whatever the government makes it. That doesn't mean it's right. Sometimes laws are passed by congressmen bribed ^H^H^H receiving donations from lobbyists. Sometimes laws are passed by politocrats who figure whats the point of all that power if they can't use it. Absolute power may be a cliche, but look at how its changed Obama from a progressive socialist to someone who makes Bush look like a hippie. That doesn't make it right. Schneier needs to transcend Kohlberg's 5th stage. ghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development and the Constitution makes this "law" illegal anyway. We just have to wait 5 years for it to work its way up to SCOTUS.
I am glad and jelous that you guys are even having these conversations, I am from a country where they put a gilr in lockup for her facebook post for criticizing the government - http://m.thehindubusinessline.com/news/facebook-post-row-police-to-drop-all-charges-against-girls/article4147120.ece/ This is a country where it is assumed that bribing is the only way to get your job done, it is assumed that the police are goons and without any self respect, we pay one of the highest taxes in the world and we dont even get a road, it is assumed that the person with the biggest stick always win and the election is just a scam.
Another 50-center demonstrating his finely honed ability to piss off the same people who'd otherwise be most inclined to agree with him.
and you dont even know what law they broke.
you should probably step back for a minute and contemplate what you are saying.
David Brooks is a priviledged, water-carrying toady with delusions of intellect; a partisan hack whose undeserved notariety matches his swollen ego.
To turn it around: if the NSA has done nothing wrong, then they have nothing to hide, right? Right? (Or does that only apply to peons?)
Head on over to mega.co.nz for terrific storage of all your NSA files, a HUGE 50GB for FREE!
Rage all you want against the 'terrifying new revelations' about government data collection, this is the INEVITABLE arc of human societies.
I know Toynbee may socio-historically old-fashions, but it seems a never-ending repetitious cycle: humans scrabble their way out of chaos and savagery, build cohesive societies that take care of basic needs freeing their citizenry to think and dream and grow. Ultimately, the weight of a society exceeds its carrying capacity (largely through the people's ignorance of how great they have it compared to the alternatives) and everything collapses in anarchy and violence, until some inspired individuals lead the way back out of chaos again.
But we're social animals (emphasis on the latter). Freedom is HARD; look carefully behind a student's eyes on graduation day, and you'll see a core anxiety "OK WTF do I do NOW with my life?"
(An aside: I believe that this is the core reason that college is perceived to be so necessary to job-hunters today. It's not the commonly-ranted "companies are demanding college degrees for everything" complaint, that's confusing cause/effect. I believe that the comfort-value of a life-on-rails with few meaningful choices has kept people in school longer and longer. It's simple, lazy, expensive procrastination of "real life" for another 4+ years. Faced with a ridiculous excess of applicants with college degrees, wouldn't you as a business likewise begin to demand them if only as a first-tier way to weed out candidates who ostensibly have fewer skills? If you think about it, it's actually contrary to what they should WANT in an employee, and why a thoughtful HR department should consider carefully if they really want degree-holding applicants, if the degree isn't directly pertinent to the job.)
You can see it too if you play a face-to-face roleplaying game with today's teens, they are literally paralyzed with choices, as opposed to the linear games with fixed, obvious options that they're used to from their PC or consoles.
In a couple of moments of startling clarity from an otherwise vapid film: ...
"Loki: I come with glad tidings of a world made free.
Nick Fury: Free from what?
Loki: Freedom. Freedom is life's great lie.
Loki: Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel."
They are lines that are supposed to enrage, of course, to light the righteous indignation in freedom-loving Americans (and in fact it's immediately followed by the formulaic 'defense of the lone guy brave enough to stand up' and Capt America's line "You know, the last time I was in Germany and saw a man standing above everybody else, we ended up disagreeing."
ANYONE who watches that and doesn't immediately recognize the historical, essential truth of Loki's statement hasn't been paying attention.
As artists have a particularly skillful ability to be succint:
http://i.imgur.com/DrlRmZK.jpg
(sfw)
Personally I suspect that freedom on the level of that envisaged by the Founding Fathers is unsustainable, because it demands a broad level of intelligence, education, the leisure to care about things larger than ones' next meal, and the willingness to put in the WORK. Lying in your hammock isn't freedom, it's the reward of freedom.
Either people are generally too indolent to be willing to work for it (think herd of sheep or cattle, happy to merely have food and get milked/sheared once in a while in exchange for perceived comfort & safety - until the farmer needs meat, but that's in the distant future...), or the governments have figured out that the way to ensure their grip on power is to opiate the masses. Either way, the masses are largely happy with it and always have been.
So stop your screaming and shouting. Ecce homo, indeed.
-Styopa
Seriously - playing devils advocate here - just what if they are indeed not abusing this capability?
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Tell that to the park ranger who rescues your granola ass from the side of a mountain.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Have you researched range voting? The author of approval voting now prefers this method.
One last thing: Sometimes I wonder; "Is that someone's signature? Or do they type that at the end of each post?"
Yeah, maybe, but it won't happen.
More likely an "American Fall".
I think what both the NSA and the government learned from this, is that it really is better to ask for forgiveness (if caught) then permission.
Nothing new here. Outside of a peon or two acting as patsies, who in the Government has been punished for:
a) Fast and Furious.
b) Collusion to undermine the First Amendment, slander, libel against OWS.
c) Wrongful death of US Officials in Benghazi.
d) Perjury (starting with Bill Clinton, but GW on war in the middle east, Obama on the NDA, Hillary on Benghazi, and the list could get pretty long so I'll stop)
e) GSA abuse of power, fraud, blackmail (just the cover up for the multi-million dollar party in Vegas)
You get the idea, there is no accountability. The media is good at assisting in cover ups by changing the subject and not talking about key issues so that people don't know or forget about them. People are slowly waking up to how bad it has become, and I have hope that it will change for the better.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Why thank you, I probably do. You're probably right. And had the previous generation(s), and our messed up government not tanked and destroyed the economy. Maybe there would be other employers hiring.
Fuck, maybe I wouldn't have to drive 110 miles to a state I dislike, all so I can have a job, keep a roof over my family's head and put food on the table. *cough choke gasp*
VW/Audi group has opened up its software to third parties... It is THE MOST OPEN car platform you can scan, hack, and play with, bar none. That's why guys like Ross-Tech sell their VAG-COM / VCDS software and ANY COMPETENT mechanic who knows what he's doing will use that software instead of cheap generic OBD-II scanners.
You also need to educate yourself before doing any repairs on the car, that's part of the process.
Disclaimer: I'm a successful DIY-er on my Audi, and I use aftermarket VCDS software to access and program all computer modules of my car.
...the voice of reason...LMOL.....one of the big stories not being talked about is private contractors have access to national security information. Since when did it become ok for privare contractors to have access to national security information? Time to end this private contractors scam - they don't save us money and only but us at greater risk. Booz Allen is another Blackwater.
Big corporations will never help....because, as you said in the next bullet: "American's politicians & lawyers are completely paid off by major corporations". Its a very quid pro quo relationship. Corps are expecting something in return for that $ they gave out.
And you nailed it with last bullet.
Interesting podcast -- https://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm look for Episode 408. It's a somewhat speculative discussion about what PRISM probably is, but Steve Gibson is pretty knowledgable, and backs up his theory with facts that seem to support it.
TLDL summary-- It's a tap on the fiber at the ISP just upstream of Google, etc., capturing a copy of all traffic to/from that service. See prior stories about "What is that secret room at AT&T?", etc.
A transcript of the podcast should be up by Friday, according to the web site.
what law did he admit breaking?
Being an old geezer/geek, I can remember the 1960's. In 1960 every publication believed anything the U.S. Federal Government said. By 1970 we had taught the population, especially reporters, that the government MAY be lying to you. Some swung far to the opposite side, and assumed that any government statement was a lie.
Today we may be seeing a similar phenomenon. The U.S. Federal Government has run secret programs spying here and there. Does the government listen to every phone conversation in the USA? It is technically feasible, with datacenters scanning for key words. Of course the XYZ agencies would love to do it. And of course they would do it secretly. We are rapidly reaching the general assumption that if the government CAN spy, it WILL spy. And, of course, lie about it.
In the 1960's Uncle Sam lied and claimed not be lying. In the 2010's Uncle Sam spies and claims not to be spying. Do you believe him?
(Disclaimer: I don't have to believe him; I live in Thailand. They admit to spying on me.)
Politicians will have special privileges.
http://cnbc.com/id/43471561
Casteism
Quoth the mods: "-1, Insufficiently absolutist"
... it should dissolve them and elect a people it can trust