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The Plight of Star Wars Droids
malachiorion writes "Does George Lucas hate metal people? I know, sounds like standard click-bait, but I think I present a relatively troll-free argument in the piece I wrote for Slate. We stuck to the Star Wars canon, pointing out the relatively grim state of affairs for droid rights, and the lack of any real sympathy for their plight from the heroes, or, it would seem, George Lucas. C-3PO is more correct than he might realize, when the says that droids 'seem to be made to suffer.'"
Characters in stories are created to suffer through most of the plot. Droids are just a little easier to do that with in a serious way than people are, although ultimately, people are more fun.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Really, they blow up whole fictional worlds, and you're worried about fictional droids?
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
It's just a way for Lucas to make his film more marketable to parents of young children by still having lots of epic battles, but no blood and seeimingly victimless deaths.
The films started as serious adult adventures (especially Empire) and went back into kiddie land from there beginning with the Ewoks.
To me it's a purely driven by a financial and marketability point. And the fact that as Lucas got older and had kids he wanted to make films he could show to his kids. I think he's said as much in the past.
By keeping stormtroopers faceless, and robots robots, you can mow them down all you want without any cultural perception of humanized loss.
And if it's a purely logical machine getting cut down that makes perfect sense. A hybrid item with organic chemistry, that one is a bit more difficult...
They hate that!
That, and it becomes more a war-of-resources than a war-of-blood. Whoever can buy the biggest droid army wins.
In our world, "droids" lack sentience (though are getting better and better at faking it) and to some degree society is viewing them as having rights. At least in the personification sense. In Lucas's world, droids have sentience, but appear to be completely devoid of rights, and in most cases, respect. It's very similar to slavery a century ago. I think that may be the comparison he's making with them?
I think Anakin and Luke's relationship with say, R2D2, is very much the exception to the rule in the Star Wars universe, a bit like how someone in the 1800's treating a slave they owed with any degree of respect was considered inappropriate. Look at how that one guy said "oh, and have the protocol droid's mind wiped." "oh dear..." Very callously said, and very accepting of his fate.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
So, you're unaware of the Endor Holocaust, the ecological disaster caused when the Rebellion blew Death Star II to smithereens?
Leaving aside the obvious, that we're talking about a fictional space opera, not some serious SciFi here, what's wrong with this approach?
We give rights to people and to animals because they are feeling, living beings. A robot or computer does not feel anything unless you've programmed him to simulate such a thing. The difference between your iPhone and the androids of SciFi is much smaller than the difference between a microbe and a human being, and we kill millions of those every time we use desinfectant spray. Don't recall anyone getting murder charges for that.
Despite all the make-belief, androids aren't human and don't suffer. There's no point in giving them rights. As a matter of fact, programming them so that they can suffer (instead of simulating an avoidance algorithm) would be the cruel part, not what comes after.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I wonder if the author paid the computer he wrote this on a fair wage.
Really ! R2-D2 is the only character in all the movies. He has a long life. He is proven to be sapient but hides it well. He does NOT follow orders. Except for the fact only C3P0 and other droids (and occasionally Luke) can understand him, he's the most important character in the Trilogy, and those other three movies.
The fact that they never touch the philosophical issues of "droids rights" makes me classify Star Wars more into the Fantasy than in the Science Fiction genre. It takes place in a universe where apart from some engineering progress towards bigger weapons no scientific progress is made (except maybe the midichlorians lapse), and technology itself is never questioned but is just a plot device. Just like droids.
7/8/9 should be about freeing the droids.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
But it brings up bigger philosophical issues. The topic is both whimsy fun, AND has potentially deep philosophical underpinnings related to the nature of sentience and the rights of intelligent artificial beings. Good sci-fi can straddle both.
Table-ized A.I.
The gap between F & SF is superficial; both have plenty of brain candy and works that explore deeper topics, including ones that you'd expect to belong in the other category. That's why the term "speculative fiction" has been gaining steam: it's increasingly difficult to pinpoint which side stories fall on when it comes to both underlying content and window-dressing, especially within subgenres like urban fantasy. For that matter, the window-dressing itself is typically the same items or concepts with different names, including when it comes to science vs. magic -- that's what the popular quote about highly advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic was referring to, IIRC.
Example: a race from another world arrives here through an inter-dimensional portal, carrying items that outperform our best computers or medicine. You can call their species monsters or aliens, describe their method of transport as a native skill or technology or magic (or all three), and deem their objects magical or extremely advanced technology -- they're the same concepts, and the same philosophical questions can arise as a result. (My guess is that others here can name at least a book/series or three that is close to that description; I can't think of specific ones offhand.)
Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
A lot of Slate stories are clickbait these days, unfortunately. I used to read it and its rival Salon every day, often more than that, but over the past few years they've moved toward the over-sensationalistic headlines, blog-worthy rants (to generate clicks/comments), purely contrarian articles like "I hate [insert thing most people like] (for clicks/comments), ads disguised as reviews (especially Slate's tech area), etc. -- and comments, requests, or feedback is never read by authors or admin.
I've saved a good chunk of time since I finally gave up on bothering to hunt for decent articles and letting myself be suckered into commenting on the clickbait/flamebait junk there. Yeah, I spend it on Slashdot, Ars Technica, etc. but the comment areas have a much higher level of intelligence and the authors/admins at Ars/etc. actually read & reply to comment threads all the time.
Now mostly at Usenet:comp.misc & SoylentNews.org (it's made of people!)
droids == zombie == nazis Rule #1 of the crappy screen writer: You can do anything you want to these three groups, because the deserve it. Need to kill someone/something to show how bad ass your protagonist is, but don't want to have your hero actually commit murder? Pick on of these three groups and start shooting. Nazis are of course, the most evil beings in all history as we all know, so anything you do them is justified (They are more evil than I am, so murder is OK."). Zombies are unfeeling and evil, even though they are typically former victims and possibly friends or family members themselves. Finally, droids aren't human, even if they are sentient, so torture/mutilation/murder is perfectly fine.
The writer misses the entire reason GL picked droids for the villains in the prequel. He can do anything to them and nobody will so much as flinch. Light sabres, which appear en mass in the movies, would make a gory mess out of any human they were used on, and that would lose the PG rating that GL needed to suck another couple billion out of the pockets of parents everywhere.
He may be a crappy dialogue writer, but he isn't stupid.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
In our universe we may be biochemical machines, but... in the fictional Star Wars universe living beings are able to interact with the force whereas droids can't, because droids are not alive - something that characters in the Star Wars universe are either consciously or subconsciously aware of.
No disassemble Number Five!