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Chinese Media Calls For Boycott of Cisco
An anonymous reader writes "China's state-run media is calling on the country's wireless carriers to move away from Cisco products. According to reports, using Cisco products allows the U.S. to 'attack China almost at will,' and forms a 'terrible security threat.' Chinese officials are urging the companies' wireless carriers to switch to hardware made by Huawei and ZTE Corp. Citing cybersecurity concerns, the United States has banned the use of equipment from both Huawei and ZTE in its cellular networks. Cisco has not yet been named in documents describing the NSA's global wiretapping operations. Apple, a company named in leaked documents, has slashed iPhone production for the second half of this year on falling overseas sales."
Seriously? I guess not!
Weren't some companies found to be using Chinese clones of Cisco hardware and things which contained compromised chips and such? I remember reading about seizures of this hardware some time ago.
Long signatures suck.
Don't you understand what just happened? We are now entering a trade war which could spiral into another cold war.
This is not going to be good for us citizens who will lose our jobs. It will not be good for the US economy, and Chinese spies will continue hacking into US corporations. You want to be ruled by China then that is fine but let's not pretend like it will be good news to most people in America.
Every country should boost its defences if another country is snooping around anonymously in its businesses!!! No country has the right to do that! Thank Edward Snowden indeed!
There is a war. Huaewei is dragged through the mud by witless/gutless/dimwits in the US Congress. Turnabout is fair play.
The silly thing is, that all of the cell phones across the planets are like little location devices, revealing your location, your contacts, your texts, and your conversations.
Cisco is on the slide anyway, and this won't really have a dramatic effect on the US economy. The problem, you see, is that the warriors aren't making enough money right now, and with moderate Middle East peace, there's no good money to be made from that.
Trade war? Insignificant. Sorry. Just not gonna happen.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Actually, this is just the pot calling one of the many kettles black. Huawei and ZTE allow this type of "access" as well, but it's just on behalf of the Chinese government rather than the US government.
There is a war. Huaewei is dragged through the mud by witless/gutless/dimwits in the US Congress. Turnabout is fair play.
The silly thing is, that all of the cell phones across the planets are like little location devices, revealing your location, your contacts, your texts, and your conversations.
Cisco is on the slide anyway, and this won't really have a dramatic effect on the US economy. The problem, you see, is that the warriors aren't making enough money right now, and with moderate Middle East peace, there's no good money to be made from that.
Trade war? Insignificant. Sorry. Just not gonna happen.
If the boycott of Cisco takes place then a trade war has begun. Cisco is one of the most important tech companies in the USA. What if they boycott Apple, Microsoft, and several others? I expect there will be a trade war as well as a cold war among hackers.
As all countries are spying at each other and stop trusting each other, international trade of It goods collapse. As in most goods, electronics are involved, this will harm international trade. As present China did not ban European products, but as they encourage the use of Chinese products, this ban is not USA only. The Europeans should try to do something similar. They should avoid US, British and Chinese products all along and encourage its companies to use strong encryption and tor like systems.
If you're being sarcastic, you're deluded. China improving it's defenses, even against the US is not your loss, and the US successfully spying on the Chinese is not necessarily to your benefit. It's only a problem for you if it becomes one-sided, which will take a lot more than Snowden's actions. Meanwhile, Snowden has brought to light the US government shitting on it's own constitution.
If that is a sincere thanks to Snowden, I agree.
And Cisco saved DS9 countless times.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Only problem with your statement is that so far the start of every full blown war has helped the US economy. I'm not talking about peacekeeping or drawn out police actions...I mean war. WWI, WWII, Cold War. All boosted the US economy to some degree.
One of the main reasons is that these companies decide to bring jobs back to the US. Not sure if this will happen in this age of a global market. But the tension between US and China has been growing for a very long time.
The cold war and WW2 is why we have prism in the first place. Nothing good resulted from the red scare, the cold war, etc. It did not help our economy either, look at the fact that the US is not backed by gold, look at the fact that the US buying power in a family has decreased. We have to work more to get less than our parents did and our parents had to work more than theirs. So at this point, no it does not increase your salary or your buying power to have war unless you work for the war machine of China or the US.
So the boycott surrounding Huawei is ok then? Who fired the first shot?
Cisco either stands on its own, or doesn't. If Cisco can't prove that it's not sending backdoor info to the NSA, then is China justified in its concern? Let the Chinese boycott whomever they want. There is no right to sell something anywhere. There is value or there is not.
The war with hackers has been going on for a decade. We do stuff (from the USA) and they do stuff (from mainland China). You're surprised?
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
The Chinese have successfully copied Cisco's HW so there's no reason to buy the genuine product.
You know, China, I have no issue with a sovereign nation looking to its own industry to provide the technologies it needs to defend itself from threats, whether they are of an analog or digital nature. You shouldn't depend on foreign suppliers for your defense, not only because they may be somehow compromised with unknown backdoors, but also because you have no control of the supply. So sure, drop Cisco; it's probably for the best.
But if you are considering Huawei switches and routers to provide you any sort of security, you may wish to rethink that particular course of action. The NSA doesn't /need/ to install backdoors when the software is vulnerable by default.
Cisco hardware may be compromised with backdoors, but at least they are /competently/ compromised...
Every country should boost its defences if another country is snooping around anonymously in its businesses!!! No country has the right to do that! Thank Edward Snowden indeed!
That is the cause of the cold war. I guess we are going to go back to that again because governments never trust other governments and never have.
It's not a capital offense to critique the government in china. Though sure, you might get locked away and all that stuff.
But at least they are openly authoritarian. Unlike the US where you are supposed to have all these right but in the end you can still be locked away and all that stuff for arbirary reasons. Or bombed by drones, or assassinated by the CIA.
When it comes to replicating that authentic 1984 feeling, the US is far in lead with the twisting of language and concepts and covertly doing the opposite of what is stated. Lets see.
Perpetual warfare: check
Removing your rights in the name of preserving them in doublespeak fashion: check
Doing its best to achive universal surveillance: check
Demonizing the enemies while presenting self as bastion of glorious freedom and prosperity, while false flagging, assassinating and shitting everything up: check
And so on.
Now one thing is certain for me: The US is slipping into a totalitarian state at a rate I wouldn't have believed a couple of weeks ago. Even the revelations and proof that the US government is stashing all the data it can get on its own citizens in spite of the constitution and the law only triggers anger over the dude that revealed it all.
People, this guy should be a national hero by now, not a fugitive.
So, totalitarian it will be and the US population is gently coming along apparently.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
We have always been at war with China
That is the cause of the cold war. I guess we are going to go back to that again because governments never trust other governments and never have.
As my parents once said: if you want our trust then stop acting like a child and start acting responsibly.
Not gonna happen. There is too much investment on both sides. And if it cleans up the misdeeds of both side's spooks-- so much the better.
Does the dark side of intelligence need a spanking? Oh.Yeah. Will this do it? No.
This was the Chinese press calling for the action, not the government. Our press did the same stupid thing regarding Huawei. Did it have an effect? Not really.
It already is happening. Do you think the boycotts will stop here? The US will retaliate and then China will retaliate.
Before facebook was seen as the fuel for the social revolutions, twitter the next media platform but now because of all the NSA snooping revelation, it has made all our software companies look like snitches.
Furthermore, it was a lone whistle blower rather than the powerhouse companies that fought against this, it has the made the software companies look placid and complaint to questionable data gathering.
XBox One unveiling response was that it looked like a perfect spying machine not a gaming machine, new cellphones or OSes will be thought to be full of back doors and websites to be perceived to be constantly monitoring data and handing them over to the authorities.
This might drive customers away from US software industry products.
I wish this were not the case. Maybe the US, Russia, and China need to do what European countries did in 1945 to 1945 and allow their students to travel freely among the nations. That way, the historic French/German hatred has waned to brawls at football matches and not trenches/tanks.
I probably sound crazy, but it might do good for an open border policy among the three superpowers. This doesn't mean that sovereignty has to be given up, just like Spain is still Spain, but at least the people in the country are not just seeing what is spoon fed to them in the press.
The 1946 decision to let Europeans wander among nations has done wonders for Europe... maybe we should consider the same thing here in the US?
So then what's the story? The US government has been making noise about banning Chinese gear for a while. Reciprocation is entirely fair.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Dude, were you born yesterday ?
Do you really thing that China was all trusty of made-in US before ? China is just having a bit of PR fun at the US right now but in practice nothing change: the US tries to spy China and China try to spy the US. That's the job of the NSA after all.
What you just learned is confirmation that the US was also lying to its own citizen. Also you learned that when it comes to spying a Chinese national, a Taliban general or a French plumber have exactly the same rights for the US: none. That is not completely unexpected, but especially for European and other first world citizen and allies of the US, they just learned the hidden price of the free service provided by the various US companies like Google.
Also, unlike European, US citizen have a built-in distrust for their government. I see regularly people that think that the obligation to wear your seatbelt in a car is infringing their freedom. That is amazing that people are not in the street asking for the Government heads on a pike right now.
They all put backdoors into their products. That's the joke. If there's a backdoor for the government, there is a backdoor for hackers, and I'd never consider anything Cisco to be suitable for a production environment for that reason. Unless you can see the source, you have no idea who's inside your network.
More ISPs that care about privacy should look into deploying open-source networking equipment. We should practice peering with neighboring networks, use secure VoIP when possible & support open-source software. Spying is not a conspiracy anymore, it's a fact.
He has certainly helped China to boost it's defenses.
I think there is a strong case to be made that just the opposite would occur. By moving away from Cisco the NSA may very well find it easier to compromise more Chinese infrastructure.
It turns out you don't need backdoor conspiracies to have a little fun with Chinese telcom gear.
http://phenoelit.org/stuff/Huawei_DEFCON_XX.pdf
Don't you understand what just happened? We are now entering a trade war ...
We have already been in a trade war with China for many years. Its merely been a one side trade war allowing China to do as they please ...
It starts with a 20-30% price discount on all goods and services due to currency manipulation. It continues with dumping products in targeted industries below "cost". Sometimes literally, sometimes indirectly by not enforcing Chinese wage and pollution laws. Yes such laws exists, they are merely selectively ignored for strategic industries and markets. It then continues with barriers to entry for US goods and services, entry may only be allowed with domestic partnerships and technology transfers (free R&D).
A very interesting read on this topic:
http://www.amazon.com/Death-China-Confronting-Dragon-Global/dp/0132180235/ref=sr_1_1
This has nothing to do with Snowden. This has everything to do with backlash against the US for blocking use of backdoored Chinese hardware in our networks. Since we blocked them from selling to us, they are trying to match the move by blocking us from selling networking gear to them, regardless of if there is a back door or not. It's Tit for Tat, nothing more.
AJ Henderson
One day, hopefully before it's too late, you dimwits will realize there's this other option called WE. We are all humans. Once you get used to the fact that killing/supressing/enslaving/opressing others to support an unsustainable lifestyle is unsustainable, maybe we can make real inroads into sustainability and cooperation.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Well, quite frankly, how could they not?
If all of these companies are helping with this, and allowing them to spy on global communications, how can we believe they aren't complicit?
The US government can force you to add in back doors and not tell anybody due to secrecy laws, and looking at the scope of this spying issue, you pretty much have to assume there's a good chance that those products do have a backdoor.
How could China (or any other country) trust that this gear hasn't been written in such a way as to enable this kind of spying any more than the US believed this Chinese made gear?
The US has more or less said "for our security it's our right to spy on everybody", which means we should also assume that every other country has decided they should be able to do the same damned thing.
Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Cisco ... if you've been named as part of this, the assumption simply has to be that, as an entity, you aren't safe to trust. It also means you should assume those same entities will be forced to help every other damned country carry out the same level of spying.
It's not like they could claim they aren't willing to help government spying, because they've already been doing it. At which point, saying 'yes' to the US government and 'no' to any other country is an untenable position.
When you get your corporations involved in spying, it's a natural conclusion that your corporations might be involved in spying.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
The level of distrust China now has may lead China to crack down domestically and build more effective domestic spying capabilities.
When it comes to the US snooping in one's affairs, strong distrust is not only healthy, it can only be called reasonable.
Remember, it's not paranoia if the NSA is actually checking out your internet history.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
The 1946 decision to let Europeans wander among nations has done wonders for Europe... maybe we should consider the same thing here in the US?
I just want to share my agreement with this. If we promoted the idea of young people traveling around the United States then maybe we would not have these dumbass regional fights stalling our government. Although, the bigger issue seems to be generational, so maybe we should promote the idea of people transitioning between different generations?
Believe nothing -- Buddha
It would never work and never happen. For one, the United States already has huge numbers of Chinese students who have been regularly coming and going to the United States for decades, and it hasn't had any real noticeable impact. If anything, the United States university system is pretty much at the boundaries of how many Chinese students it can bring in without displacing other foreign nationals and even hurting US students as well.
Also, it worked in Europe because the economic differences between those nations was not severe. The gap in standard of living and opportunities is still so severe between the United States and China, that an open door policy would result in a MASSIVE flood of low-skill immigration. The United States is barely able to support the large influx of immigrants from a nation of 112 million, how do you think it will cope with open borders from a nation of 1.2 billion and an even lower per capita income?
Listen, retard ...
Thank you for starting your post this way. It saved me the trouble of reading any further.
Listen, retard, that's not how it works. It's not about who has the biggest dick. It's about who has the money. If China does well, the US does well too. Because now you have a giant market to export. If the chinese can afford to buy US products, you will have more jobs in the US, in the manufacturing sector.
No its really not about the money. Its about the wealth. Wealth is about being secure in the ability to produce the things you need, and having time left over to produce the things you want and to enjoy them. If you have no production in the end you have no wealth. Our current relationship with China is destructive the general wealth of the United States, even its making a certain group of people extremely wealthy.
God I just HATE how short sighted Americans are. How do you think the world works, really? Do you think you just print money and that's it?
No and I don't think the parent does either but it sure looks like you actually do.
It's not. It gets to a point where you can be the world's bestest USA #1 murica fuck yeah economy, and then no one buys from you. If no one buys from you, there's no trading, and you have an import deficit, and you lose the #1 spot. Quickly. Do you think you can keep printing dollars and buy everything from china? Sure you can. Then you lose all manufacturing jobs, and have people protesting, which you have to keep in welfare. Then, because the economy shrinks, you lose your shiny IT job. Then companies close down or are sold to the chinese. Suddenly the only people making money are the ones in "finance", which is a time bomb that just takes 1 bad day at NYSE to crap out the whole country's economy and drag the rest of NATO with it too.
Which is exactly why people like me argue if we are going to start a trade war or a new cold war the time to do it is NOW. Not later, we need to do it now why we still have some industry out side of fiance left, time is running out.
China doing well is the best you can do to reduce your deficit. You don't need to be the #1 all the time, you just need to know how to play your cards. Just remember, you just cannot nuke China. You can wave your big nuclear ICBM cock all you want but you can't afford to use them. The chinese will fuck you up, bad.
Learn the fucking rules of commerce, for once!
Wrong reducing the deficit is good and all but if we do it thru the Fed monetizing debt with endless QE to prop up financial markets so we buy stuff in China, with no real recourse against them just nationalizing it later it won't mean much. We need to create real wealth not just entries on a balance sheet.
The 90s taught us that service-based economies are nice, but you leave out all the untrained masses. There are people who do not want to go to college, and just want a job - and those people won't be able to find jobs if the US keeps the elitist "I import everything because I don't want to get my hands dirty" view. Unless you're a tiny country, it's not viable to live off just "service". Design, R&D is nice, but you need extremely high specialization for this nowadays. If defense is not there to pay for it, how long do you think that will hold?
Well I guess you got one right.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
I'm not sure I want to drop the border with Oklahoma; they steal _everything_! Even dirt!
Don't be too hard on them, it's only because of all the dirt they lost in the Dust Bowl.
Huawei and ZTE allow this type of "access" as well
Do you have any evidence whatsoever that this is true?