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Snowden: NSA Spying On EU Diplomats and Administrators
An anonymous reader writes "According to a report dated 2010 recently provided by [former NSA contractor Edward] Snowden to the German news magazine 'Der Spiegel', the NSA has systematically been spying on institutions of the EU in Washington DC, New York, and Brussels. Methods of spying include bugging, phone taps, and network intrusions and surveillance according to the documents."
All part of a grand tradition.
Could we just get the list of who the NSA isn't spying on? It seems to be much shorter.
Only on
I'm probably wrong here, but isn't it against international law to spy on diplomats? If yes, does this apply to only spying on diplomats residing in your country, or elsewhere?
Our government is a bit like a sociopath. We are nobody's friend. Everyone is merely a potential enemy. We spy on everyone. No exceptions. I'm sure we even spy on the UK and Canada as utterly pointless as that may be. If we ever ended up at war with either Canada or the UK then we'd almost certainly be better off losing anyway.
Of course, from Washington's POV the problem is not so much that we spy even on our friends, but that someone blabbed about it. They won't think about changing their behavior toward our allies. About acting honorably at least toward our allies. Rather they will think more about how badly they can punish the leaker. I can only imagine how badly they are itching to get Snowden's ass to gitmo and torture him to death in very creative ways.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Actually, countries likely have a mutual spying agreement. USA spies on $COUNTRY, $COUNTRY spies on USA, and they share information. Both never technically spy on their own citizens and therefore obey their own constraints, yet they effectively have full unchecked information invasion on their own people.
Have you missed the Washington Post PRISM 2 leaks just released?:
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/national/inner-workings-of-a-top-secret-spy-program/282/
It proves what Google and Facebook said all along.
When Google Microsoft and Facebook deny they gave *direct* access to the NSA, they were telling the truth. They gave direct access to the *FBI* who gave direct access to the NSA! See! Not a lie!
In the same way I'm not accessing Slashdot, I'm accessing my router! In fact I've never visited Slashdot! You can't prove I'm lying so its the truth!
And they only collect Metadata: Meta-Chats, Meta Emails, Meta File Transfters, Meta VOIP, Meta Logins, Meta IDs, Meta-Metadata (!), Meta Photos, Meta Social Networking, Meta Stored Data, Meta Video, Meta Video Conferenceing.... why, hardly anything at all!
And they do have due-process. They 'duly process' everything with an NSA controlled filter known as PRINTAURA. See, no lie there!
And they told the truth when they said they don't collect files on everyone. 49% is not everyone! Why, it's not even half of everyone!
And they do have warrants to look at the data, the cloud warrants even have a checkbox "[X] are you sure this is legal?" *see*! double checked!
And checks and balances too, Dwayne checks Wayne's filled the form in correctly "[X] is Dwayne sure this is legal?"
So move along citizen, nothing sickening to see here.
The leaks seem to be coming out in a clever order, starting with the most credible. An obvious benefit of this is that each lends credence to the next. Perhaps less obviously, each time the government passes up an opportunity to come clean, it makes the lies more obvious. We might have already known (or guessed) all this stuff, but now we have government officials on record lying about the extent of surveillance, over and over, just before backtracking to defend it.
Yup, this is why the UK dropped out of the last time it was done, Echelon. The US was spying on the UK but wasn't handing all the data over, but giving it to US companies to get better deals.
Waiting for an amusing sig.
it is after all their job to spy.
Is anyone honestly going to claim no one else is spying? Who thinks the EU doesn't spy on the US? etc?
Everyone is spying on everyone else. Its part of diplomacy.
Why? countries lie. Countries manipulate. And no one really trusts anyone in the end. So you spy.
Every nation spies on every other nation to the extent that they care and have the resources. This is why the US catches Russian sleeper agents occasionally... or busts Chinese spies. This happens all the time. And the general convention on the matter is that if we don't punish their spying we won't punish their spying.
How many spies has the US executed recently? None. And we could by international law. Same thing with the spies they catch. They aren't killed. They're exchanged.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
It's interesting how the "revelations" from "former" CIA employee and short-term NSA external contractor are so ground-breaking and not just what people who don't own a TV have known for years. Bread and circus, knew the Roman Empire, keep people from revolt. Snowden is a circus. Putin said it best when he pointed out that FSB had no interest in Snowden, it would be like trying to skin a pig: Lots of screams but no wool.
Yeah, I know this is too true information even for slashdot, I'm guessing this will be modded down.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
Oh, there can be no doubt that NSA spies on the Russians. So, on the other hand Snowden seems to consider Russia a legitimate target, and does not reveal anything about NSA activity over there. Then he goes to Russia on his own and ends up being questioned by Russian officials.
European online editions of newspapers have it all over their title pages. Scores of EU politicians and servants indignated. I suddenly wonder if, ironically, this could be one of the many little pushes the EU needs to attain more internal unity. Sad it should be brought along by the discovery of a new intimate foe... But then again, the sun has been going down over the US for some time already now.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
I don't see any issue with governments spying on each other. You kind of expect they would do that.
I see far more of a problem with spying on arbitrary citizens with pretty much no oversight (although it amazes me that this comes as a surprise to anyone at all).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
With friends like this, who needs enemies?
-- Cheers!
Or, more likely, he released a report about spying on EU states.
Since Russia is not a member of the EU as far as I am aware, that might explain why they are not on the list.
In all honestly I think we can defend ourselves perfectly well without spying on Britain and hacking their computers.
It's not about morals, it's that at some point, the threat from having a dark, hidden organization inside the government, operating away from the light of disclosure, becomes greater than the threat of foreign countries invading. It's been a long time since Britain attacked us.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I don't think going to Russia was ever in his long term plan. He was clearly hoping Hong Kong would not extradite him. At some point he changed his mind about that. Russia was likely just part of some short term strategy to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison for doing a good deed. At this point however he may have no choice but to apply for political asylum in Mother Russia. It may not be a Libertarian Utopia. Certainly no more than the US. But it's a hell of a lot better than a US prison or gas chamber. Even North Korea would be better than that.
I probably would have flown to Laos. Not as modern as Hong Kong, but no extradition treaty with the US. It's cheap, and the people are some of the nicest in the world. It might be considered Communist, but it feels freer than the US because no one really bothers you. On paper you're not at all free, but in practice you are often more free than in the US. But I guess Russia isn't so bad.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
States or "state-likes" like the EU spy on each other, ok.
I find it much more worrying that normal EU citizens are being spied on by UK services. My government (German) tells me they didn't know about it, and of course I am inclined to believe they are not telling me the truth (new default reaction to free world government officials saying something). The reaction our minister of justice got when she dared to demand some clarification from the Brits, a polite "go f**k yourself", is still interesting. Oh, and literally while I write this comment, this just in: (article in german) the NSA also massivcely spies on the german public.
They are just keeping the EU safe from terrorists
The US was spying on the UK but wasn't handing all the data over, but giving it to US companies to get better deals.
Yeah, the CIA did this (are still doing this?) to a bunch of Aussie companies as well - used CIA/ASIO information sharing to let US companies know what Aussie wheat prices were going to be so that the US could undercut the Aussies in key markets, etc.
You can never know everything, and part of what you do know will always be wrong. Perhaps even the most important part.
...sure, survaillance done inside USA on foreign subjects inside usa.. that could still fly.
but they're moving the definition so that as long as the operators are inside usa they're free to hack globally. of course this is a legal pothole since when it's the other way around they argue that it is indeed the other way around and the hackers are committing crimes on american soil to be tried with american laws..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
"The EU never was a Union. It has always been a trade treaty and some fools tried to make more out of it."
The intent of the EU / EC / ECSC was always to form a political union. Granted it is not there yet, but the founding fathers where quite clear on this, and any state joining signs up for this long term goal.
I can guarantee you that a lot of citizens who are involved with anything dealing with more than two EU members are quite happy with the Union influencing the local legislation.
I for example have been living in 4 different member states, and often spend weekends with the in-laws in a fifth. The Union's influence on local legislation using directives and the Euro is absolutely essential for making life bearable for millions of people. As an example, due to the EU influence on the local legislation, a person moving to another state does for example no longer have to exchange their drivers licence any more (in my case, I would have had to change it 3 times during the last 5 years if the old rules would have applied). In addition, no paperwork has to be filled in if you get a job in another member state, this saves tons of money for business and a lot of time for citizens who have to deal with the mess otherwise. I could probably write a full book on how the influence on local legislation simplifies matters a lot.
"Civis Europaeus sum!"
European Union never was an Union eh?
look man - I DO WANT the EU to have affect on my local legislation. do you know why? I don't think that protectionist tolls on products and produce are good for me. I don't want alcohol tax to be so fucking high. I want to be able to buy already taxed used cars from germany without having to pay taxes again on it. I do want to be able to go to work in other EU countries without fuss. I do want to be able to buy whatever I want from germany and uk if I want. I do want that someone else than a local politician decides if we should devalue my bank account(because gee whiz the local politicians fucked things up way more than eu did).
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
More than half of the discussion I hear recently is about how awful it is that the US is spying on other countries. I'm baffled by this. Of course we spy on other countries. And they spy on us. And each other. That's what the CIA/NSA/KGB/etc are for. That's their role, am I incorrect?
The issue isn't "ermagherd, we're spyin' on other countries!". It's "holy fuck, our own government is spying on its own citizens, even though they are expressly forbidden from doing so".
I don't think we needed to be reminded that NSA spies on Russia. Also, Target spies on Sears, and my daughter who runs a lemonade stand spies on her rival one block over.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
We made our bureaucracy so vast it's impossible on spy on all of it.
I probably would have flown to Laos.
Unlike HK or Moscow, the CIA would not think twice about illegally kidnapping him from Laos.
Or just putting a bullet in him.
[somewhere in Laos] knock, knock, knock... Pizza man!
It's been a long time since Britain attacked us.
The British invaded in the 60s with biological vectors like Beatles, blunt objects like Stones, and aerial attacks by Zeppelins. On our side some were Grateful just to be Dead.
First, we kind of expect the US to behave better than China, otherwise this fuss would not have happened.
Secondly, no, HK is not China, little more than it was previously England.
Among other things, Hong Kong has its own hard currency, laws, passports, government, judicial independence, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly.
These freedoms are not merely theoretical, but frequently exercised in a way that may indeed have people sent off for reeducation if done in mainland China.
Beijing may well have forced HK to warn Snowden out, but that's better than the pressure that would have come from Washington on many other countries.