MasterCard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers

And thus it begins by hawkinspeter · 2013-07-03 10:43 · Score: 5, Interesting

So, it has come to this.

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You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe

Re:And thus it begins by radiumsoup · 2013-07-03 10:48 · Score: 3, Funny

welcome bitcoin overlords, etc.
Re: And thus it begins by fredprado · 2013-07-03 11:22 · Score: 2

Nah, technology adapts far easier and quicker against them than at their favor. Visa and Mastercard are hardy the only ways in existence to exchange money and as they become more and more restrictive other options are sure to fill the void.
Re:And thus it begins by gmuslera · 2013-07-03 11:35 · Score: 2

At least we can have a beowulf cluster of vpn endpoints.
Re: And thus it begins by mysidia · 2013-07-03 12:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

Nah, technology adapts far easier and quicker against them than at their favor. Visa and Mastercard are hardy the only ways in existence to exchange money and as they become more and more restrictive other options are sure to fill the void.
Right... it is ultimately to their detriment to adopt these policies.
They are creating a motivation and a market for other companies to replace them
Re:And thus it begins by I'm+just+joshin · 2013-07-03 13:51 · Score: 4, Funny

A Beowulf cluster of Raspberry Pis running VPN Endpoints when not mining Bitcoins.
Re:And thus it begins by DworkinLV · 2013-07-03 15:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

And if you had read the linked articles, you would have seen the prior occurrence with wikileaks. Having both Visa & Mastercard not accept either the wikileaks donations or VPN payments at the same time seams suspicious. Both organizations are seperate and have seperate charging agreements. So both at once leads one to believe that pressure was applied by an outside source. As both instances have occured around leaking of US government "secrets" (Don't get me started as if they are still secrets when they are plastered over the press) it becomes obvious who benefits from the blockage. The U.S. Government

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Re: And thus it begins by Opportunist · 2013-07-03 20:08 · Score: 4, Insightful

The whole "I read it in X, they say it on Y, so it must be true" fallacy stems from the misconception that "free press" means that the press tells the truth. While they MAY, unlike in countries where the ruling powers dictate what they may print, no law dictates that they MUST do so.
The press is still held in pretty high esteem in large portions of the population, mostly because of what they did in the past. The press actually earned that reputation. We did actually have some high quality reporters and a lot of very good journalists that critically analyzed events around the globe and tried to offer enough insight to give people the "other side" of what governments and "official" news outlets provide.
This gradually changed in the last two or so decades. News turned from information to entertainment, and content was replaced with opinion. The press ain't what it used to be. I'd love to peg it all on Fox News and how their sensationalist, opinion-heavy reporting "forced" everyone else to jump the bandwagon, but in the end, we're to blame. If we didn't want to get that kind of "news", they couldn't offer it.
People don't want information anymore. They don't want to form their opinion. They don't want to think. They want to choose the opinion they want to join. It's easier. It spares them the thinking. They can just parrot what your favorite news anchorman spills and feel intelligent for using big words (even though the words aren't theirs).
We're to blame. It's love to say "they are", but I can't help but feel responsible for it, too.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re: And thus it begins by Belial6 · 2013-07-03 20:11 · Score: 2

My favorite conspiracy theory is that there really are not conspiracies. The fact that we have laws against them and people get convicted of it is really just a conspiracy to make us BELIEVE that conspiracies exist...which they don't.
Re:And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-03 22:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

Outside source or not, we have a basic right to communicate over a secured connection, and so by extension the right to pay any legitimate company we like to provide said services to us.
But no, a world corporate duopoly Mastercard/Visa have decided that we no longer have that right. As citizens WE MUST revoke or at the very least impose hefty enough fines on these companies for abusing the privileges we gave them, by allowing them to sell their services into our respective countries. Arrogance, much.
Of course, those who organized this fiasco are the same ones who control our their politicians, so this basic and necessary wrist slapping will not occur, and so we continue our slide down the slippery slope...
Re:And thus it begins by mcvos · 2013-07-04 00:49 · Score: 3, Insightful

And if you had read the linked articles, you would have seen the prior occurrence with wikileaks. Having both Visa & Mastercard not accept either the wikileaks donations or VPN payments at the same time seams suspicious.
"Seems suspicious"? It was already obvious that they take orders from Washington, in exchange for diplomatic support for their expansion into Russia and other markets.
It was already obvious that Visa and Mastercard are not neutral payment providers, and therefore not reliable as international payment infrastructure.
This just underscores even more that we need better payment infrastructure. The world can't afford to be dependent on these two companies for its economic traffic.
Re:And thus it begins by gutnor · 2013-07-04 01:25 · Score: 2

VPN are used for often in Europe to access US service like Hulu, Netflix.
So such services are despised both by national security and national/big companies interests. I have always been amazed that a VPN service with entry point in the US with a decent bandwidth has been allowed to exist at all.
Re:And thus it begins by king+neckbeard · 2013-07-04 03:14 · Score: 2

Too be fair, the we can't have a single discussion without it being read by the NSA, so there's no sense in leaving them out.

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Re:And thus it begins by RockDoctor · 2013-07-05 02:46 · Score: 2

Outside source or not, we have a basic right to communicate over a secured connection,

Would you care to cite a source for that? Viz : country name, and legal code reference to this asserted right being granted.
I'll not hold my breath while I'm waiting.

--
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Re:And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-05 05:08 · Score: 3, Informative

Here is the reference you asked for. I can forgive you for not realizing you had this right, given how seriously US/UK some EU and commonwealth nation states are ignoring and openly pissing on basic human rights.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights
A right to privacy is explicitly stated under Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.[14]
[14] United Nations. (1948). Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Retrieved October 7, 2006 from http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.htm
Re:And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-05 05:23 · Score: 2

P.S. As you requested, here is a list of country names that have signed up to this legal code: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_declaration#Adoption

Lucky me. by Danyel · 2013-07-03 10:49 · Score: 5, Funny

I provide my VPN to myself for free. ;)

Re:Lucky me. by UltraZelda64 · 2013-07-03 11:36 · Score: 2

Too bad by running your own VPN on your own Internet connection, all privacy is gone. Everything can easily be tracked right back to you. Not saying that running your own VPN doesn't bring some serious advantages... but privacy is most definitely not one of them.
Re:Lucky me. by spire3661 · 2013-07-03 11:39 · Score: 2

They can see who he communicated with, they cant see WHAT he communicated. Thats the best you can possibly expect from public infrastructure.

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Good-bye
Re:Lucky me. by UltraZelda64 · 2013-07-03 12:01 · Score: 2

But they can see that he has something to hide, which is probably enough to get a search warrant these days.
Yep. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/06/21/1443204/use-tor-get-targeted-by-the-nsa
But I don't think a search warrant is needed these days... they'll just take what they want as they please. The government don't give a shit, they wiped their ass with the Bill of Rights and flushed it down the toilet a long time ago.
Re:Lucky me. by Drakonblayde · 2013-07-03 13:26 · Score: 2

I think you're getting privacy confused with anonymity.

You know a monopoly is present by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 10:53 · Score: 5, Insightful

When it's impossible to boycot the bad guy...

Re:You know a monopoly is present by canadiannomad · 2013-07-03 10:58 · Score: 5, Interesting

What I really dislike about this is how it is a group of companies acting as a pack to instill their own laws/moral judgement on the world at large. Why do they get to decide which companies I deal with or not?

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Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
Re:You know a monopoly is present by hedwards · 2013-07-03 11:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

Because it's their network and no regulatory body has told them no. Doesn't make it right, but that's how it is until somebody steps in and says no.
Re: You know a monopoly is present by austinhook · 2013-07-03 11:58 · Score: 3, Informative

It's not really a private company decision. US financial control authorities merely disallow any money transaction company that flouts their political controls. It is not allowed to have a non US based credit card network.

Oh whatever by Tibe · 2013-07-03 10:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

> 'It means that U.S. companies are forcing non-American companies not to allow people to protest their privacy and be anonymous, and thus the NSA can spy even more.'

That's rather bias. It also means that people are no longer able to circumvent geo locks on media content, avoiding the current media distribution models and laws. Some people are protecting their privacy, but I would guess the vast majority just want to watch Game of Thrones.

Re:Oh whatever by Qzukk · 2013-07-03 10:58 · Score: 5, Funny

I would guess the vast majority just want to watch Game of Thrones.
This evil must be stopped at all costs to freedom and liberty!

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If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Re:Oh whatever by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 11:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

That people pay VPN services to bypass geo locks means they have money to pay *something* to watch that content. Media companies should take note and offer more reasonable pricing for content globally. All they are accomplishing by getting Visa and Mastercard to collude with them is forcing people to use even less legal methods to get content.
"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore
Re:Oh whatever by fredprado · 2013-07-03 11:26 · Score: 2

Nah, they are making more and more users hostile to their cause to the point of grudge. If they keep going, and I really hope they do, they will only lose more and more control as time goes.
Re:Oh whatever by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 11:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

Game of Thrones' Lord Vaerys: The content of a man's letter is more valuable than the content of his purse.
Re:Oh whatever by faedle · 2013-07-03 15:18 · Score: 4, Informative

I use a VPN service (VyprVPN). I'm a USian.
My primary reason for using it is that many "open" hotspots have filters. These filters often filter out content that is merely "politically inconvenient", usually to the Religious Right. Since a lot of the web filtering software has ties to these self-appointed censors, they tend to be very aggressive on what they filter.
VyprVPN allows me to access these sites even from behind this restrictive filtering.
Re:Oh whatever by dryeo · 2013-07-03 18:23 · Score: 4, Informative

They made it harder for non-Americans to pretend to be Americans and subscribe to things like netflix. Lots of people want to pay for content, content that is not available in their country or content that is much cheaper in the States so they get a VPN to pretend that they're somewhere else.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Re:Oh whatever by deroby · 2013-07-03 20:19 · Score: 2

I've found books to be a great alternative...

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If there is one thing to be learned on slashdot, it has to be sarcasm.
Re:Oh whatever by gl4ss · 2013-07-04 04:37 · Score: 2

That people pay VPN services to bypass geo locks means they have money to pay *something* to watch that content. Media companies should take note and offer more reasonable pricing for content globally.
Yes.

All they are accomplishing by getting Visa and Mastercard to collude with them is forcing people to use even less legal methods to get content.
No. They are not forcing anyone to be less legal, that's probably your bias. They are removing one method, which may make some users not bother, some go a legal route, and some go another illegal route.
it is not illegal for me to route my connection through another country. but the thing is, they sell the same service globally but offer different things. if I pay for netflix I can watch it from any country I want. HOWEVER.. what country I watch it from greatly affects what shows they have on offer. this is because the copyright lobby is selling rights like it was 1984. this is of course makes buying netflix in certain areas bullshit - you get a lot less for your money.

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.

Re:Bitcoin by emj · 2013-07-03 10:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

Bitcoin has no privacy, or complete transparency, depending on your viewpoint.

US considered hostile by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 11:04 · Score: 5, Informative

Don't use US services.

Re:US considered hostile by BrokenHalo · 2013-07-03 13:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

While on the face of it, "US considered hostile" might be taken as flamebait, it would seem at the moment to be an accurate characterisation.

A nation (or to be fair, its administration) that continually bullies its own people and citizens of other nations cannot expect to be treated as anything but a pariah. Trouble is, I don't see any other governments having the courage to stand up to the US.
Re:US considered hostile by Xest · 2013-07-03 20:21 · Score: 2

Already dropped by US based Usenet provider and web host for precisely this reason. It was getting tiresome having to deal with a host that bowed down to everything the US wanted even though I was doing nothing wrong in my country (or even frankly under US law either, but this isn't about law, it's about morals being imposed by companies outside of the law).

This is why... by DiSKiLLeR · 2013-07-03 11:07 · Score: 5, Insightful

This is why we need a payment system that does NOT rely on PayPal, Visa, or MasterCard.

And I guess this is why the US Govt. is trying to shut down bitcoin so hard....

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You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.

Re:This is why... by vikingpower · 2013-07-03 11:12 · Score: 2

Amen. I wish I had some mod points for you, which at the moment I don't. This is all about bullying. And more and more of us are getting sick and tired of it. Not only of the bullying itself, but also and rather of the many means there are to practice bullying.

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Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Re:This is why... by LordLucless · 2013-07-03 11:54 · Score: 4, Funny

And with enough energy and malice, I could burn the galaxy. Your point?

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Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
Re:This is why... by tompaulco · 2013-07-03 12:04 · Score: 2

With enough CPU power and malice, i could destroy Bitcoin in its current incarnation.
Which is why you are not given enough CPU power. It is distributed to prevent people from accumulating enough to destroy it. If you bought all of the world's top supercomputers, you would not have enough CPU power to "take over" bitcoin.
Also, you couldn't destroy bitcoin even if you did have over 50% of the horsepower, you could only invalidate your recent transactions, and prevent other transactions from being recorded. it would have to be out of sheer malice, because there is no way you could make it financially positive for you.

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If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.

Re:Good For Them by hedwards · 2013-07-03 11:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

As somebody who used to live and work in China, I find this to be rather unfortunate. VPNs are neither good nor bad by any inherent reasoning, but what this means is that people in regions that have oppressive regimes are going to find it harder to get access to the web unfiltered as it's going to be harder and harder to fund the services.

Ultimately, if the US government has had any input in this, it's going to bite them on the ass. Well, it will bite them on the ass, regardless of causation.

Hmm, maybe they should... by countach · 2013-07-03 11:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

Hmm, maybe they should rename their services. "Remote internet ISP services" or "SSL internet connection", or some other obfuscated name. They can't ban everything associated with the internet.

Re:Hmm, maybe they should... by dgatwood · 2013-07-03 13:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

They can't ban everything associated with the internet.
Yeah, they can. That's why this is so scary. ISPs are VPN providers just waiting to happen. Every ISP that provides shell accounts can easily become someone's VPN provider, through no fault of their own.
First, they came for the VPN providers....

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Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

Two thoughts. by pla · 2013-07-03 11:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

1) Why does this not count as illegal collusion within an industry group? That they decided to announce it as a unified decision provides de facto proof that they conspired to deprive their customers of choice. If my itty bitty company made a similar joint announcement with one of our biggest competitors in the region, half a dozen state AGs would have us in court before the newsprint dried on the initial announcement.

2) I make use of these usurious parasites' services because it lets me conveniently move my money from place to place without worrying about the security of either cash or my real bank accounts, and I can essentially do all my spending with one tidy itemized monthly bill. If I can no longer use Visa to purchase the goods and services I want, I no longer have a reason to use Visa at all.

And a bonus thought, for good measure - For those talking about the NSA or Bitcoin - This involves regional protection of content, a favor to Hollywood, nothing more and nothing less. At least direct your vitriol in the right direction, folks.

Re:Two thoughts. by LordLucless · 2013-07-03 11:59 · Score: 4, Interesting

And a bonus thought, for good measure - For those talking about the NSA or Bitcoin - This involves regional protection of content, a favor to Hollywood, nothing more and nothing less. At least direct your vitriol in the right direction, folks.
This is a favor to Hollywood; last time it was a favour to Government so they could try to starve out Wikileaks. It's a question of control. With the current system, Visa can vritually control who you can and cannot buy goods and services from, putting them in the position of being able to exert de facto control over the economy.
A decentralized payment method (like cash, or bitcoin) puts the control in the owners of the money. Cash has too many historical roots to destroy, but its inherently limited in its ability to make large payments across wide geographical separation. Which is why bitcoin (and any other new, decentralized, electronic currency) is a threat to the existing system.

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Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face

Censorship is live and well everywhere by dk20 · 2013-07-03 11:41 · Score: 2

The only thing that changes is how its implemented. Communist countries control the press, we control it via finances.

Re:Censorship is live and well everywhere by Type44Q · 2013-07-03 12:55 · Score: 2

Our country controls it, too; google "Operation Mockingbird."

Re:Good For Them by Luckyo · 2013-07-03 11:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

It just looks like the gloves came off with the whole Snowden affair. They now know they can get away with pretty much anything and the propaganda machine will keep up appearances well enough for the masses to accept it, and as a result the two-faced "protecting the freedom" with all its problems like VPNs can be finally finished.

Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by keneng · 2013-07-03 11:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

Bitcoin, the first world digital currency exists. Bitcoin will be the best match for getting things bought and sold anywhere on the internet and in the real world while preserving our digital freedoms and digital privacy. Bitcoin is decentralized. No single government may control it. There are service fees like traditional banks, but the manner in which these fees are distributed is very different and fairly distributed. It has every reason to succeed over the traditional currency exchange scheme.

MASTERCARD and VISA want to help the current super powers take away our digital freedoms and digital privacy by refusing to do business with VPN providers.

Boycott Mastercard and Visa. Stop doing business with VISA and MASTERCARD.
Learn to use Bitcoin instead of VISA and MASTERCARD.

"Ideas and Discoveries" magazine brings up the idea "The Internet will become the new world SUPERPOWER" and "operates more effectively than America or China". Since no single government may control Bitcoin, Bitcoin is a good match with the new INTERNET SUPERPOWER because both do well at preserving digital freedoms and digital privacy especially because both are decentralized.

Call the WTO, the IMF, the marines! by fustakrakich · 2013-07-03 12:02 · Score: 4, Funny

This is a restriction of trade. If we can force people to buy tainted beef and GMO foods, surely we can beat this.

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“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by lgw · 2013-07-03 12:04 · Score: 4, Insightful

Learn to use Bitcoin instead of VISA and MASTERCARD.

Sure. How do I buy bitcoins without using Visa or MasterCard (or Paypal)?

--
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.

Very suspicious by SoftwareArtist · 2013-07-03 12:10 · Score: 5, Interesting

Does anyone else find this story very suspicious? I mean, VPN services are completely mainstream, widely used by business people. I bet that even MasterCard and Visa use them. And suddenly we're told there's a conspiracy to ban them. And the poster attributes this to the NSA wanting to spy on us. All based on completely anecdotal reports from one company that you've probably never heard of before.

I suspect the summary will turn out to be a complete misrepresentation, and the truth will be something far less evil and far less interesting than this post makes it out to be.

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"I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."

Re:Very suspicious by squiggleslash · 2013-07-03 14:52 · Score: 2

VPN protocols are mainstream and widely used by business people, but not VPN providers (using the term in the article headline) - that is, an ISP that instead of being accessed by its customers over phone lines, DSL links, or cables, is instead accessed by customers via a VPN protocol over the Internet.
Business people use VPNs to access their office networks. You don't need a VPN provider to do that. Business people generally wouldn't have much of a use for VPN providers - the only use I can think of off the top of my head is for testing connectivity, which is something your business's technical team might do, and which is an application where such a service constitutes massive over-engineering.
Otherwise... VPN providers are generally useful when you have to disguise your IP address for some reason. I guess they're also possibly useful (I've never used one so I don't know how well this would work) if you need an additional IP address, for running a server or something similar. The latter is obviously legitimate. The former may or may not be, but the immediate reasons for hiding your real IP address that come to mind are not legal.

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You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.

alternatives? by Aryeh+Goretsky · 2013-07-03 12:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

Hello,

Does the ban extend to VPS providers like Linode and Lowendbox (et al), or cloud services like Amazon AWS or Google Cloud which could host a VPN? If not, perhaps provisioning a VPN server is one of these is an alternative.

Credit card companies and payment processors might be less willing to suspend operations with Amazon or Google.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

--
Dexter is a good dog.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 12:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

| Sure. How do I buy bitcoins without using Visa or MasterCard (or Paypal)?

Usually you use Local Bit Coins or any of the methods listed on this new user's guide.

Re:Lo-Tek Solution? Perhaps ... by davecb · 2013-07-03 12:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

Your cheque is an order to the bank to pay $X to Y. If your government outlaws Y, the bank cannot honour your order.

At the moment, banks have a smallish list of countries and companies that have been outlawed, and so the bank cannot pay tme anything. These are organizations/countries claimed to be in of support of terrorism. If the government in question can argue VPNs enable terrorism, they can add VPN companies to the list.

--dave

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davecb@spamcop.net

Request, and suggestion... by Anachragnome · 2013-07-03 12:15 · Score: 5, Interesting

I personally do not use a VPN service anymore, but have a request for anyone that does. I also request you post results here, in this thread, to share any response you may receive.

Please call your current VPN provider and ask them how to go about paying them for their services without using PayPal, Visa, Mastercard or AmEx. Just see what advice they give to you in order for you to continue using their services (if any).

I am curious as to how the providers themselves are responding to their customers. They may have already come up with a viable alternative payment method that has been kept out of the media.

Re:Request, and suggestion... by somenickname · 2013-07-03 17:43 · Score: 5, Informative

You can find a good rundown of privacy and payment options for a lot of popular VPN services here: http://torrentfreak.com/vpn-services-that-take-your-anonymity-seriously-2013-edition-130302/
Basically, if you so choose, you can use a VPN service very anonymously.

Go to EU courts and have Visa/Mastercard banned! by Tasha26 · 2013-07-03 12:31 · Score: 2

I thought foreign companies such as Paypal, Visa and Mastercard had to obey certain laws before being given access to EU customers/clients and that this right could be revoked at any time if they failed to comply? Then how come these miscreants are regularly discriminating against certain EU customers?

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by lgw · 2013-07-03 12:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

Heh, that local bitcoins site is great. "Meet me outside my apartment building and hand me cash, and sure enough you'll get some bitcoins, I promise, pinky swear".

Anyone with any better advice?

--
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by venom85 · 2013-07-03 12:39 · Score: 2

Sure. How do I buy bitcoins without using Visa or MasterCard (or Paypal)?

Use Discover.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 13:43 · Score: 3, Insightful

Uhhm, you _can_ verify that. Just whip out your phone and make sure the coins were sent before you give cash or buy from someone well trusted.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by theskipper · 2013-07-03 13:53 · Score: 5, Interesting

I withdrew $500 in cash from my bank, went to Walmart and had a Moneygram sent to Bitinstant. Within an hour it was in my Mt Gox account, minus all the fixed and transaction fees (a somewhat hefty $25). Certainly inconvenient but the process is pretty straightforward once you understand how it works. YMMV.

Of course this doesn't consider what's involved in getting USD out of Mt. Gox which is ideally just the inverse. But I planned on spending the bitcoins so it wasn't a consideration.

Re:Oh, fuck off. by Tibe · 2013-07-03 14:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

You're crude and fail to understand simple arguments, and some key aspects of language and communication.
You have inferred an opposite point of view to your own from my statements.
This shows you see the world as black and white, and anyone's opinion as either with you entirely or against. This is simply not the case.

I do not have enough data to say anything more than what I guess. I could probably find some.

I am not willing to throw out anonymity and privacy for those who want to circumvent copyright.

The above is in bold so you can see I agree with you.

Ideally media companies would find another way to distribute content. One that suits the users who are prepared to pay for it and themselves.

I would bet that media companies protecting their current, quite flawed, distribution model is the motivation behind stopping payments. Not spying.

Furthermore, grow up.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by FuzzNugget · 2013-07-03 14:18 · Score: 2

I would love to. Now how do I actually get the damn things?

I'm a fairly technical person, but I've spent hours dicking around on various trading exchanges and buying sites, but there are just *no* clear directions. Most of them tell me to go to a Walmart to get some tokens or a code or some shit. WTF? I thought this was supposed to be a purely online currency.

Until we have "I PayPal you X dollars/Euros/whatever, you give me Y bitcoins" this newfangled shit just ain't gonna catch on.

Re:"Right To Serve" (with your home ISP) related?? by Luckyo · 2013-07-03 14:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

What "many" people want is irrelevant. What's important is what those with power want. Many people can be suppressed in a number of ways ranging from propaganda to intimidation, to control through financial means such as debt, to simply shooting them with a hellfire missile from a drone.

Ars technica had a very good article on a guy on their IRC channel who appears to have been Snowden back in 2000s. Back then he was quoted to state things like "leakers should be shot in the balls" and so on. Basically there will always be plenty of young men who will feel that it is patriotic to defend their country by working for the security apparatus. Most of them rarely if ever come in contact with full scale of it, and the reason why Snowden apparently got to the point where he felt he had to blow the whistle was because in his position of sysadmin he had far more access then any single analyst or operative and could judge the whole rather then a small part of the puzzle.

The result is that tyrants across the world easily stay in power on the back of such young men. When these young men occasionally become Snowdens, they are violently suppressed by those who came after them.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by saihung · 2013-07-03 14:55 · Score: 2

I just use my bank's online money transfer system. I didn't have to go anywhere or physically buy anything.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by ShanghaiBill · 2013-07-03 15:02 · Score: 4, Interesting

That question is only relevant until I'm able to earn part of my salary directly in bitcoins.

Then it is already relevant to some people. I employ a graphic artist that lives in Karachi, Pakistan. Paypal doesn't work in Pakistan. I used to pay her with a quarterly wire transfer, but that ate up about 5% of her salary in fees. So now I pay her in bitcoins, and the transaction fees are less than 1%.

If they outlaw encryption ... by Crypto+Gnome · 2013-07-03 15:16 · Score: 2

Then only outlaws will have encryption.

Of course, OUTLAWING it would incur a MASSIVE backlash from the population (insert legal challenge here).

By denying encryption FINANCIALLY, you achieve the same thing with SIGNIFICANTLY less opportunity for a legal challenge.

As Paul once said "He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing."

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Visit CryptoGnome in his home.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Opportunist · 2013-07-03 15:32 · Score: 2

Well, technically, banks do the same when you deposit money. And given their recent record of honesty, reliability and stability, I don't really see THAT much of a difference to be honest.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by sg_oneill · 2013-07-03 16:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

Ah yes, undercutting local labor markets with third world labor PLUS bitcoins!

Liberty is at hand folks!!!!

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Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by DrXym · 2013-07-03 20:44 · Score: 2

And "technically" a pharmacist is just a drug dealer. But would you fill your prescriptions from a guy standing on a street corner?

The answer of course is no for obvious reasons. And those obvious reasons also apply when discussing exchanging currencies in banks vs some guy you arrange to meet in a parking lot or wherever.

Re:Lets play politics by blane.bramble · 2013-07-03 21:02 · Score: 2

Private Interconnection Environment

Let them tell the world you can't use Visa or Mastercard to buy PIEs

Translated referenced email by sociocapitalist · 2013-07-03 23:44 · Score: 2

Following the link in TFA the email from Payson translates imperfectly but readably (via Google translate) to:

Payson when recently updated its policy on payments. 1 associated with this
examined your nemsida ocn then noticed that you verKsamnet unfortunately not
meets the requirements of Payson.
Payson when restrictions are against anonymization (including VPN services)
That when as a result decided to Payson unfortunately no longer can give your Customers
ability to fund the payment via their card (VISA or MasterCard).
Changes Will be done 2013-07-01 ocn then no longer possible for you to take
against this type of tranSactIOnS through Payson's integrated payment solution.
The restriction does not affect the rest of your insättningsmetedeL Payson ocn
possibility inieggad the Account implement tranSactIOnS Will not NOR to
affected by the change.
We apologize if this causes problems for you ocn are available to help you solve
This conflict with the policy wherever possible.
Sincerely,
Payson

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blindly antisocialist = antisocial

Re:"Right To Serve" (with your home ISP) related?? by Gr8Apes · 2013-07-04 02:18 · Score: 2

Note who holds the real power in Egypt - it's not the politicians.

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by RoTNCoRE · 2013-07-04 03:01 · Score: 2

Because we've paid for it in blood with the creation of unions and the labor movement. We also pay taxes from our earnings to support a much better infrastructure, social safety net and (full circle) pay for our industrial security complex war machine.

You are looking at this the wrong way...why don't the third world workers deserve to be paid more?

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MasterCard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers

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