MasterCard and Visa Start Banning VPN Providers

And thus it begins by hawkinspeter · 2013-07-03 10:43 · Score: 5, Interesting

So, it has come to this.

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You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe

Re:And thus it begins by radiumsoup · 2013-07-03 10:48 · Score: 3, Funny

welcome bitcoin overlords, etc.
Re: And thus it begins by DuncanE · 2013-07-03 11:11 · Score: 1

This has nothing to do with the NSA. This is all about the so called content owners protecting copyright. And with this they are starting to win!
Re:And thus it begins by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 11:17 · Score: 1

You mean bitcoin decentralized overloads?
Re: And thus it begins by fredprado · 2013-07-03 11:22 · Score: 2

Nah, technology adapts far easier and quicker against them than at their favor. Visa and Mastercard are hardy the only ways in existence to exchange money and as they become more and more restrictive other options are sure to fill the void.
Re:And thus it begins by gmuslera · 2013-07-03 11:35 · Score: 2

At least we can have a beowulf cluster of vpn endpoints.
Re: And thus it begins by Luckyo · 2013-07-03 11:48 · Score: 1

They have been winning for at least a hundred years. Remind yourself of how copyright started and look at where we are now.
They are persistent, they are skilled at what they do and they are most definitely winning.
Re:And thus it begins by libtek · 2013-07-03 11:58 · Score: 1

IT'S HAPPENING!

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Unequivocally the realest of the realz...
Re: And thus it begins by mysidia · 2013-07-03 12:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

Nah, technology adapts far easier and quicker against them than at their favor. Visa and Mastercard are hardy the only ways in existence to exchange money and as they become more and more restrictive other options are sure to fill the void.
Right... it is ultimately to their detriment to adopt these policies.
They are creating a motivation and a market for other companies to replace them
Re:And thus it begins by I'm+just+joshin · 2013-07-03 13:51 · Score: 4, Funny

A Beowulf cluster of Raspberry Pis running VPN Endpoints when not mining Bitcoins.
Re: And thus it begins by TranquilVoid · 2013-07-03 14:56 · Score: 1

It's hard to tell. The one thing we can all agree upon is that it's a massive conspiracy.
Re: And thus it begins by Opportunist · 2013-07-03 15:36 · Score: 1

The problem is the whole mess is so convoluted that you can't even tell anymore which kind of conspiracy it is.
The scary part is that ALL of them could be it.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:And thus it begins by adolf · 2013-07-03 15:46 · Score: 1

I guess so.
My favored VPN provider takes bitcoin. I guess I'll now have to find out, kicking and screaming, exactly how to turn real money into bitcoin so I can buy service with it.

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Kid-proof tablet..
Re:And thus it begins by DworkinLV · 2013-07-03 15:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

And if you had read the linked articles, you would have seen the prior occurrence with wikileaks. Having both Visa & Mastercard not accept either the wikileaks donations or VPN payments at the same time seams suspicious. Both organizations are seperate and have seperate charging agreements. So both at once leads one to believe that pressure was applied by an outside source. As both instances have occured around leaking of US government "secrets" (Don't get me started as if they are still secrets when they are plastered over the press) it becomes obvious who benefits from the blockage. The U.S. Government

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Browsing without an adblocker is like fucking without a condom - Mal-2
Re:And thus it begins by GigaplexNZ · 2013-07-03 17:30 · Score: 1

So, it has come to this.
You ran out of cat food?
Re: And thus it begins by cavreader · 2013-07-03 17:41 · Score: 1

Conspiracy theories are the refuge for those who make up and shape facts to support their pre-determined view of the world. Supporters of conspiracy theories are so persistent, obnoxious, loud, and widespread that facts become irrelevant. News organizations, both large and small, as well as blogs and online discussion forums publish opinions mixed with a few facts often taking out of context. The Internet has made it easier to exchange ideas, spread knowledge, and provide freedom of expression. However it's turned into a tool for spreading propaganda, polarizing hatreds, collecting consumer data, and raising the level of animosity all across the world. More than few people honestly believe "I read it on the Internet so it must be true!". People flock to websites where their beliefs and opinions are validated and justified and ignore any other websites that might offer a different viewpoint. The echo chamber effect is overwhelming common sense at an alarming rate. With today's 15 minute new cycle and people trying to justify their opinions in under 140 characters also results less fact checking and doesn't provide the time necessary to formulate and fact check a reasoned argument. Large media networks attempt some fact checking because they are highly visible but they do a poor job under today's time limits. Sometimes they may offer up a retraction and correction if caught reporting something that is proven false but most times they don't. Privately operated Web sites offering up news and opinions are not highly visible or associated with a big company and can publish anything they want without fear of a backlash or loss of credibility.
Re: And thus it begins by Opportunist · 2013-07-03 20:08 · Score: 4, Insightful

The whole "I read it in X, they say it on Y, so it must be true" fallacy stems from the misconception that "free press" means that the press tells the truth. While they MAY, unlike in countries where the ruling powers dictate what they may print, no law dictates that they MUST do so.
The press is still held in pretty high esteem in large portions of the population, mostly because of what they did in the past. The press actually earned that reputation. We did actually have some high quality reporters and a lot of very good journalists that critically analyzed events around the globe and tried to offer enough insight to give people the "other side" of what governments and "official" news outlets provide.
This gradually changed in the last two or so decades. News turned from information to entertainment, and content was replaced with opinion. The press ain't what it used to be. I'd love to peg it all on Fox News and how their sensationalist, opinion-heavy reporting "forced" everyone else to jump the bandwagon, but in the end, we're to blame. If we didn't want to get that kind of "news", they couldn't offer it.
People don't want information anymore. They don't want to form their opinion. They don't want to think. They want to choose the opinion they want to join. It's easier. It spares them the thinking. They can just parrot what your favorite news anchorman spills and feel intelligent for using big words (even though the words aren't theirs).
We're to blame. It's love to say "they are", but I can't help but feel responsible for it, too.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re: And thus it begins by Belial6 · 2013-07-03 20:11 · Score: 2

My favorite conspiracy theory is that there really are not conspiracies. The fact that we have laws against them and people get convicted of it is really just a conspiracy to make us BELIEVE that conspiracies exist...which they don't.
Re:And thus it begins by hawkinspeter · 2013-07-03 20:13 · Score: 1

What's worse is that I don't even have a cat.

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You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Re: And thus it begins by elucido · 2013-07-03 20:14 · Score: 1

Fuck them. Their profits don't outweigh our rights.
You should be able to buy what you want and if they have to resort to this bs to try to protect a copyright cartel then that cartel is corrupting the system and taking away our rights for its own economic benefit.
Re: And thus it begins by slickepott · 2013-07-03 20:26 · Score: 1

Not sure if it's winning when I say "ah fuck it - they don't want me as a customer" and I won't buy anything at all of what they want to sell. :)
Re: And thus it begins by Luckyo · 2013-07-03 20:45 · Score: 1

Considering the growth they had in last hundred years, they can gain additional happiness from the fact that they can give you a big fat finger and still grow at fast pace.
Re:And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-03 22:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

Outside source or not, we have a basic right to communicate over a secured connection, and so by extension the right to pay any legitimate company we like to provide said services to us.
But no, a world corporate duopoly Mastercard/Visa have decided that we no longer have that right. As citizens WE MUST revoke or at the very least impose hefty enough fines on these companies for abusing the privileges we gave them, by allowing them to sell their services into our respective countries. Arrogance, much.
Of course, those who organized this fiasco are the same ones who control our their politicians, so this basic and necessary wrist slapping will not occur, and so we continue our slide down the slippery slope...
Re:And thus it begins by mcgrew · 2013-07-04 00:45 · Score: 1

Yes. We can't have a single discussion without someone mentioning the NSA.
And you find that surprising, considering the recent revelations?

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Free Martian Whores!
Re:And thus it begins by mcgrew · 2013-07-04 00:48 · Score: 1

Having both Visa & Mastercard not accept either the wikileaks donations or VPN payments at the same time seams suspicious.
Yep, it seems they sewed the suspicions together tightly.

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Free Martian Whores!
Re:And thus it begins by mcvos · 2013-07-04 00:49 · Score: 3, Insightful

And if you had read the linked articles, you would have seen the prior occurrence with wikileaks. Having both Visa & Mastercard not accept either the wikileaks donations or VPN payments at the same time seams suspicious.
"Seems suspicious"? It was already obvious that they take orders from Washington, in exchange for diplomatic support for their expansion into Russia and other markets.
It was already obvious that Visa and Mastercard are not neutral payment providers, and therefore not reliable as international payment infrastructure.
This just underscores even more that we need better payment infrastructure. The world can't afford to be dependent on these two companies for its economic traffic.
Re:And thus it begins by gutnor · 2013-07-04 01:25 · Score: 2

VPN are used for often in Europe to access US service like Hulu, Netflix.
So such services are despised both by national security and national/big companies interests. I have always been amazed that a VPN service with entry point in the US with a decent bandwidth has been allowed to exist at all.
Re:And thus it begins by king+neckbeard · 2013-07-04 03:14 · Score: 2

Too be fair, the we can't have a single discussion without it being read by the NSA, so there's no sense in leaving them out.

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This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Re: And thus it begins by RafalLos · 2013-07-04 04:22 · Score: 1

So I use one of these services regularly and I'm curious how long until PayPal joins this obvious corporate concession to government since PayPal already has a history of such...
Re: And thus it begins by gl4ss · 2013-07-04 04:28 · Score: 1

So I use one of these services regularly and I'm curious how long until PayPal joins this obvious corporate concession to government since PayPal already has a history of such...
I would wager most payments through paypal are through visa/mastercard though visa/mastercard are unlikely to revoke their charging rights.
Though I would think that paypal to have received the same letter.
obviously the right answer is "wtf?" and "the fuck do we know what they are selling as legitimate companies in our country?"

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:And thus it begins by hunzana · 2013-07-04 05:39 · Score: 1

So, it has come to this.
The techno-peasants that infest the congressional and bureaucratic ranks of the US government, including the spy agencies, just don't seem to get it. We are going to get the privacy that we want. These spy agencies should invest their time finding terrorists. If they suffer the illusion that by pressuring Visa and Mastercard they can stop us from using VPN, then they are dumber than I imagined.
Re: And thus it begins by Lennie · 2013-07-04 05:56 · Score: 1

They are just small potatoes.
Here is a fact: the harddisk manufacturers make more money than the movie/film and music industry combined.
And have fun watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL2FOrx41N0

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New things are always on the horizon
Re: And thus it begins by Lennie · 2013-07-04 06:05 · Score: 1

Mickey Mouse from Disney is the biggest reason they've been winning, the time it takes for copyright to expire has been streched again and again.
Currently copyright expires at 75 years after the death of the author. Guess how long ago the creator of Mickey Mouse died ?
Guess what will happen again some day ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse#Legal_issues

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New things are always on the horizon
Re:And thus it begins by dywolf · 2013-07-05 02:42 · Score: 1

and they have the right to not do business with anyone they don't want to.

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The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Re:And thus it begins by RockDoctor · 2013-07-05 02:46 · Score: 2

Outside source or not, we have a basic right to communicate over a secured connection,

Would you care to cite a source for that? Viz : country name, and legal code reference to this asserted right being granted.
I'll not hold my breath while I'm waiting.

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Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Re:And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-05 05:08 · Score: 3, Informative

Here is the reference you asked for. I can forgive you for not realizing you had this right, given how seriously US/UK some EU and commonwealth nation states are ignoring and openly pissing on basic human rights.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights
A right to privacy is explicitly stated under Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.[14]
[14] United Nations. (1948). Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Retrieved October 7, 2006 from http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.htm
Re:And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-05 05:18 · Score: 1

This duopoly. EU banks are always grumbling about how they want to start a new network to break the Visa/MC duopoly... too bad no one managed to do it other than tiny hardly accepted anywhere (in the EU) cards like Amex, otherwise you would be correct and we could not longer call it a duopoly. Just because there was Linux in the 90s, did not mean that Microsoft was not the undisputed monopoly at that time...
Re:And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-05 05:23 · Score: 2

P.S. As you requested, here is a list of country names that have signed up to this legal code: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_declaration#Adoption
Re: And thus it begins by RockDoctor · 2013-07-06 09:53 · Score: 1

To (approximately ... can't bring up source quote on this tablet) quote from that : "people have the right to protection from that interference by the law" (my emphasis.')
i.e., your protection from intrusion of privacy, fucking with communications etc, comes by the legal system. You do not have the right to apply techniocal fixes, you have to rely on the law.
Did you think that land sharks would write themselves out of a job?

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Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Re: And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-07 01:50 · Score: 1

Sounds like clutching at straws to me RockDoctor. Basic human rights are basic human rights - black and white clear as crystal. If a legal company sells me a legal a service that happens to reinforce our own basic legal human rights, then in no way shape or form is it legal to interfere with that transaction. What we have here is arrogant thugs acting in petty self interest, illegally, unafraid of any consequences for their actions only because the majority of voters willingly or unwillingly have given them the power to enforce the law unto themselves... or not. So I will be so cheeky, although I mean no disrespect, to throw your original question right back at you: you care to cite a source for that? Viz : country name, and legal code reference to this asserted ability to interfere with companies that sell self empowering tools that help us maintain our basic human rights and so by extension basic international law?
Further, I should ask you rhetorically, because it is ultimately of more your interest to you than me.... are you apologizing for those that act illegally and piss on our basic rights, defending them or just trying to point out that our rights are no longer respected and thats all ok to you? Or perhaps your not ok with it and are just playing the devils advocate? Whatever your answer to those questions is, the mindset you have demonstrated so in your posts above is a curious one...
Re: And thus it begins by RockDoctor · 2013-07-08 12:33 · Score: 1

Our rights are as respected as much today as they ever have been - i.e. not at all. And no, I'm not happy with the situation. Nor do I believe that the politicians are going to do anything about it (it's not in their interest to).
So, do I get on with my life, or do I shit myself up about something that I'm not going to be able to change? I've seen enough fucked up things at work over around 1/3 of the planet (working to keep the western world in the resource-guzzling gluttony that everyone seems to consider to be their right human right), to have no illusions that the forces of oppression and down-treading are actually pretty mild in most of the West. If you want jack-booted thugs, there's plenty of countries where you can go to get that experience and only pay for it with your life and your health.

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Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Re: And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-08 20:45 · Score: 1

I agree with you, our rights are not very respected if it all, most of our politicians do not act in the communities interest, big companies are gaming international trade and other laws to help peddle their wares, keep the world addicted to resource-guzzling gluttony and block any moves to more sustainable (i.e. less short term profitable) ways of life and laws. And sure there are plenty of counties full of real primitive violent jack-booted thugs that also ignore their own laws (if they have any), and also act to suppress basic human rights etc (hell the US is best friends and buddies forever with one of the worst of them, Saudi Arabia). I have even lived in some of these types of countries. One thing is normal to all the world, all cultures that I have had the privilege to visit or live amongst: Normal people just want to live in peace with a modest sustainable lifestyle, where their children grown up in a world that is as good or better than their own. It is easy to forget that living in countries with 24/7 consumerism advertising, but take that away and that is what you seem to get, the world over regardless of race, religion...
No need for us to shit ourselves up about it though, I also agree. But unlike you I think It is enough to stand up and call out then bullshit, name and point out any corrupt, arrogant thugs acting illegally in petty self interest when we see them sprouting up in our own back yards like weeds. And just perhaps, each in our own little way, we can do our little part to help unroot them...
Re: And thus it begins by RockDoctor · 2013-07-08 23:46 · Score: 1

keep the world addicted to resource-guzzling gluttony and block any moves to more sustainable (i.e. less short term profitable)
I honestly doubt if "sustainable" and "profitable" are at all compatible. Thinking as a geologist (on the multi-millennial time scales where sustainability needs to be demonstrated), I just can't square that with the desire for "profitability" on a human lifescale of a century or so (which presently requires you to have children and for them to inherit from you).
Well, I know that my children won't suffer in the crash. And I don't really care about anyone else's.

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Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Re: And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-09 00:21 · Score: 1

Well, I know that my children won't suffer in the crash. And I don't really care about anyone else's.
Sooner or later, rich people in corruptly run counties have to live in gated communities, behind armed guards and/or security cameras, multiple deadlocks. A life lived in fear. No thanks.
Re: And thus it begins by RockDoctor · 2013-07-11 22:23 · Score: 1

That's been happening since ... well before the Romans. Why should it change now?

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Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Re: And thus it begins by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-11 22:53 · Score: 1

That's been happening since ... well before the Romans. Why should it change now?
All ancient societies used to do it, sure. In modern society it is a new thing. You only need to see the number of gated high security communities, schools, malls etc in the US 50s Vs now to confirm that trend. Or Brazil, or San Salvador, or... the list is endless. Trend is up, business for those who build gated communities in certain corruptly run countries is good, a growth industry and a nice stock play.
Throughout the world where we see many gated communities = Fear and threat of violence from your own population = Highly corrupt governance. More corrupt the state, the more gated communities your rich children can grow up inside of. Hardly living IMO vs living in a decent low corruption country, with decent social security and so no roving armed gangs. Perhaps if you grow up in that environment you dont realize there is an alternative... but each to their own I guess.

Lucky me. by Danyel · 2013-07-03 10:49 · Score: 5, Funny

I provide my VPN to myself for free. ;)

Re:Lucky me. by UltraZelda64 · 2013-07-03 11:36 · Score: 2

Too bad by running your own VPN on your own Internet connection, all privacy is gone. Everything can easily be tracked right back to you. Not saying that running your own VPN doesn't bring some serious advantages... but privacy is most definitely not one of them.
Re:Lucky me. by spire3661 · 2013-07-03 11:39 · Score: 2

They can see who he communicated with, they cant see WHAT he communicated. Thats the best you can possibly expect from public infrastructure.

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Good-bye
Re:Lucky me. by jamesh · 2013-07-03 11:41 · Score: 1

They can see who he communicated with, they cant see WHAT he communicated. Thats the best you can possibly expect from public infrastructure.
But they can see that he has something to hide, which is probably enough to get a search warrant these days.
Re:Lucky me. by UltraZelda64 · 2013-07-03 12:01 · Score: 2

But they can see that he has something to hide, which is probably enough to get a search warrant these days.
Yep. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/06/21/1443204/use-tor-get-targeted-by-the-nsa
But I don't think a search warrant is needed these days... they'll just take what they want as they please. The government don't give a shit, they wiped their ass with the Bill of Rights and flushed it down the toilet a long time ago.
Re:Lucky me. by mattventura · 2013-07-03 12:42 · Score: 1

If he's hosting a VPN with his home internet being the endpoint, then all they have to do is see what's happening on his home connection. The only privacy that would provide is against MitM or people sniffing public wifi.
Re:Lucky me. by Drakonblayde · 2013-07-03 13:26 · Score: 2

I think you're getting privacy confused with anonymity.
Re:Lucky me. by Mashiki · 2013-07-03 15:37 · Score: 1

Too bad by running your own VPN on your own Internet connection, all privacy is gone
Well you can drop $15/year up here in Canada and get a 120GB w/128MB of memory for a virtual server in whatever processor flavor you want. Depending on the company too, I've seen it for half of that.

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Om, nomnomnom...
Re:Lucky me. by SuricouRaven · 2013-07-04 00:38 · Score: 1

Still traceable, though - you had to pay for it somehow.

You know a monopoly is present by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 10:53 · Score: 5, Insightful

When it's impossible to boycot the bad guy...

Re:You know a monopoly is present by canadiannomad · 2013-07-03 10:58 · Score: 5, Interesting

What I really dislike about this is how it is a group of companies acting as a pack to instill their own laws/moral judgement on the world at large. Why do they get to decide which companies I deal with or not?

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Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
Re:You know a monopoly is present by hedwards · 2013-07-03 11:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

Because it's their network and no regulatory body has told them no. Doesn't make it right, but that's how it is until somebody steps in and says no.
Re: You know a monopoly is present by austinhook · 2013-07-03 11:58 · Score: 3, Informative

It's not really a private company decision. US financial control authorities merely disallow any money transaction company that flouts their political controls. It is not allowed to have a non US based credit card network.
Re:You know a monopoly is present by aNonnyMouseCowered · 2013-07-03 12:08 · Score: 1

This wouldn't have so great an impact if the companies involved operated and overwhelmingly served customers in a single country, even one as mighty as the US. But what about those who want VPN services to China or some Middle Eastern countries with a restricted direct line to the Net? Maybe this would give a boost to non-credit-based online payment services, even BitCoin. The downside is that you'd lose the ability to get your money back if a transaction falls through and so should be more careful who you're dealing with.
Re:You know a monopoly is present by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 12:19 · Score: 1

What I really dislike about this is how it is a group of companies acting as a pack to instill their own laws/moral judgement on the world at large. Why do they get to decide which companies I deal with or not?
Because PCI Standards and Compliance are not a government mandate, but a coalition of private businesses. MC and Visa use the same networks and therefor would have similar policies in how they handle PCI compliance. Look at 3DSecure, AVS and CVV transaction responses...
Technically not a Monopoly if multiple independent companies agree on a standard. Your argument is flawed in that retailers/businesses dont accept Credit Cards, AMEX, or Discover for their transaction. You are choosing to do business with these creditors, they can chose who they want to do business on their end as well.
Source: I'm an eCommerce Risk Analyst
Re:You know a monopoly is present by Cammi · 2013-07-03 13:40 · Score: 1

If you read the article, and know anything about credit cards. You can plainly see that they do not decide which companies you deal with or not. That is all on you.

Oh whatever by Tibe · 2013-07-03 10:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

> 'It means that U.S. companies are forcing non-American companies not to allow people to protest their privacy and be anonymous, and thus the NSA can spy even more.'

That's rather bias. It also means that people are no longer able to circumvent geo locks on media content, avoiding the current media distribution models and laws. Some people are protecting their privacy, but I would guess the vast majority just want to watch Game of Thrones.

Re:Oh whatever by Qzukk · 2013-07-03 10:58 · Score: 5, Funny

I would guess the vast majority just want to watch Game of Thrones.
This evil must be stopped at all costs to freedom and liberty!

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If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Re:Oh whatever by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 11:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

That people pay VPN services to bypass geo locks means they have money to pay *something* to watch that content. Media companies should take note and offer more reasonable pricing for content globally. All they are accomplishing by getting Visa and Mastercard to collude with them is forcing people to use even less legal methods to get content.
"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore
Re:Oh whatever by Tibe · 2013-07-03 11:07 · Score: 1

Ideally media companies would find another way to distribute content. One that suits the users who are prepared to pay for it and themselves.
I would bet that media companies protecting their current, quite flawed, distribution model is the motivation behind stopping payments. Not spying.
Re:Oh whatever by mrspoonsi · 2013-07-03 11:09 · Score: 1

That has to be one of the most heinous crimes, someone in another country watching a free** broadcast. The streets are once again safe. I cannot imagine there were huge numbers (in relation to % of population of a country) who use VPN, I also guess that someone like the NSA love VPN (centralized services), like a spiders web waiting for all the flies, doing something interesting? you might as well paint a bulls eye on your arse. Even if the NSA do not have a realtime SSL decoder, they still know with net taps where you are talking to, and traffic analysis could indicate the exact items you are looking at (if the end site is trawled by the NSA). ** the broadcast might be paid for by advertisers, the advert may or may not be relevant to the country in which it is viewed.
Re:Oh whatever by Tibe · 2013-07-03 11:16 · Score: 1

That people pay VPN services to bypass geo locks means they have money to pay *something* to watch that content. Media companies should take note and offer more reasonable pricing for content globally.
Yes.

All they are accomplishing by getting Visa and Mastercard to collude with them is forcing people to use even less legal methods to get content.
No. They are not forcing anyone to be less legal, that's probably your bias. They are removing one method, which may make some users not bother, some go a legal route, and some go another illegal route.
Re:Oh whatever by Tibe · 2013-07-03 11:22 · Score: 1

That has to be one of the most heinous crimes, someone in another country watching a free** broadcast. ... ** the broadcast might be paid for by advertisers, the advert may or may not be relevant to the country in which it is viewed.
The broadcast is paid for by advertisers. And if making decent content becomes more risky or lower profit giving rise to more reality tv... for a developed nations largely law abiding citizens day to day life, it is a pretty horrible outcome. Media companies need to find a better distribution model.
Re:Oh whatever by fredprado · 2013-07-03 11:26 · Score: 2

Nah, they are making more and more users hostile to their cause to the point of grudge. If they keep going, and I really hope they do, they will only lose more and more control as time goes.
Re:Oh whatever by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 11:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

Game of Thrones' Lord Vaerys: The content of a man's letter is more valuable than the content of his purse.
Re:Oh whatever by BrokenHalo · 2013-07-03 13:14 · Score: 1

I would bet that media companies protecting their current, quite flawed, distribution model is the motivation behind stopping payments. Not spying.
Hmmm. I'm not sure I understand how making it harder for people to pay for content is protecting anything.
Re:Oh whatever by Tibe · 2013-07-03 13:55 · Score: 1

They did not make it harder to pay for content that earns them revenue.
They die make it (not much, but a little bit) harder to avoid paying for content that does earn them revenue.
That is, they made it harder to pay for VPN's which do not give media companies revenue.
They did not make it harder to pay for DVD's off Amazon, or downloads via iTunes etc.
Re:Oh whatever by Tibe · 2013-07-03 13:58 · Score: 1

Yes! As much as that sucks.
Re:Oh whatever by Grishnakh · 2013-07-03 14:56 · Score: 1

Sure, but bypassing a geo lock isn't wrong in the least.
Re:Oh whatever by faedle · 2013-07-03 15:18 · Score: 4, Informative

I use a VPN service (VyprVPN). I'm a USian.
My primary reason for using it is that many "open" hotspots have filters. These filters often filter out content that is merely "politically inconvenient", usually to the Religious Right. Since a lot of the web filtering software has ties to these self-appointed censors, they tend to be very aggressive on what they filter.
VyprVPN allows me to access these sites even from behind this restrictive filtering.
Re:Oh whatever by flyingfsck · 2013-07-03 15:41 · Score: 1

Exactly. It also doesn't avoid watching the bladdy advertisements either.

--
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Re:Oh whatever by dryeo · 2013-07-03 18:23 · Score: 4, Informative

They made it harder for non-Americans to pretend to be Americans and subscribe to things like netflix. Lots of people want to pay for content, content that is not available in their country or content that is much cheaper in the States so they get a VPN to pretend that they're somewhere else.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Re:Oh whatever by deroby · 2013-07-03 20:19 · Score: 2

I've found books to be a great alternative...

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If there is one thing to be learned on slashdot, it has to be sarcasm.
Re:Oh whatever by FriendlyLurker · 2013-07-03 22:50 · Score: 1

In that case use your own VPN. Connect to the hotpost and tunnel back over your reisdential broadband connection.
Oh thank you for allowing us to use VPN on an "case by case" basis, if we have the technical skill and ability to set one up ourselves, that is. Silly me here I was thinking it was a basic right to communicate over a secured connection, and so by extension to pay any legitimate company we like to provide said services.
But no, a world corporate duopoly Mastercard/Visa have decided that we no longer have that right. As citizens we must revoke or at the very least impose hefty enough fines on these companies for abusing the privileges we gave them, to sell their services in our respective countries. Arrogance, much.
Re:Oh whatever by tommeke100 · 2013-07-04 00:10 · Score: 1

And some other instances, like for example plenty of companies, use VPN access to be able to test their systems from the outside.
Re:Oh whatever by FireFury03 · 2013-07-04 00:53 · Score: 1

That's rather bias. It also means that people are no longer able to circumvent geo locks on media content, avoiding the current media distribution models and laws. Some people are protecting their privacy, but I would guess the vast majority just want to watch Game of Thrones.
Why exactly is circumventing region locks a bad thing? The businesses selling me stuff make use of the global market to get the cheapest raw materials and labour; why is the customer not allowed to use the global market too? In many cases the region locked content isn't even _available_ to some regions, which seems counterproductive for both the consumer and the vendor.

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http://blog.nexusuk.org
Re:Oh whatever by BrokenHalo · 2013-07-04 02:21 · Score: 1

They did not make it harder to pay for DVD's off Amazon, or downloads via iTunes etc.
They didn't need to. Those sites already employ geoblocking, so diddling around with methods of payment is redundant.
Re:Oh whatever by gl4ss · 2013-07-04 04:34 · Score: 1

I would bet that media companies protecting their current, quite flawed, distribution model is the motivation behind stopping payments. Not spying.
Hmmm. I'm not sure I understand how making it harder for people to pay for content is protecting anything.
the point is to provide a system where they can sell local rights to highest bidder. of course that system depends on limiting abilities of people to enjoy media from other regions.
because they want money upfront and they want money afterwards and money while in the middle. they don't want to just sell you content. they want to sell the right to show you the content first to someone, then they'll later sell you a way to watch the content and then again with the superblublaray release.
this is why netflix is borderline useless in my country. you can get total of 3 seasons of mythbusters there.

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:Oh whatever by gl4ss · 2013-07-04 04:37 · Score: 2

That people pay VPN services to bypass geo locks means they have money to pay *something* to watch that content. Media companies should take note and offer more reasonable pricing for content globally.
Yes.

All they are accomplishing by getting Visa and Mastercard to collude with them is forcing people to use even less legal methods to get content.
No. They are not forcing anyone to be less legal, that's probably your bias. They are removing one method, which may make some users not bother, some go a legal route, and some go another illegal route.
it is not illegal for me to route my connection through another country. but the thing is, they sell the same service globally but offer different things. if I pay for netflix I can watch it from any country I want. HOWEVER.. what country I watch it from greatly affects what shows they have on offer. this is because the copyright lobby is selling rights like it was 1984. this is of course makes buying netflix in certain areas bullshit - you get a lot less for your money.

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:Oh whatever by houghi · 2013-07-04 04:38 · Score: 1

This is /. so I will assume some technical knowledge.
Why use a third party? Set up your own vpn server. Connect to it as you please.
Sites like TPB blocked? I run my own DNS server, so again no problem there.
Why would I need a third party VPN if I am capable of doing it myself.

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Re:Oh whatever by Tibe · 2013-07-04 09:25 · Score: 1

Why exactly is circumventing region locks a bad thing?
First off I didn't say it was bad, however from the media companies perspective I can see it as bad. From the audiences perspective it's good, at least in the short term.

why is the customer not allowed to use the global market too?
You are not a customer, you are a product that the network also sell to advertisers.
Most goods are not regionally licensed. It's bad for media companies, for now, because the region locks are there to protect revenues of the content creator. Current licencing is by region. That is a flawed model, but they are very tied into it. Many existing contracts between distributor and broadcaster, as well as some laws, are based around regional licencing.
There are real costs associated with creating content. Currently most of those costs are recovered by targeted advertising. By avoiding region locks, you're more likely to get irrelevant ads. That's wasted spend for the advertisers who will see their ratio of conversions fall. (A viewer who acts on an ad.) They will thereby reduce advertising by either negotiating a lower price per viewer, or buying less ad space. Under the current system, it takes time to line up shows with advertisers and audiences. In some cases expensive shows are broadcast to line up with other regions seasons. E.g. In summer shows do not do well as most people are outdoors. Shows produced in the northern hemisphere's winter are delayed 6 months to line up with the southern hemisphere's winter. This ensures a high number of viewers, which will likely lead to a higher conversion rate for advertisers. If the audience have already seen the content by avoiding region locks, there will be lower viewer numbers, advertisers will not spend as much, and the networks will look for less expensive content. The content producer sees less profit, and take fewer risks creating content.
In short, the media companies are tied up, and slow moving to keep pace with how fast content can now be delivered globally. The current distribution model is flawed as it was created in a world without the internet. It is written into laws and contracts that are hard to change. Circumventing the current model is bad for the media companies in the short term and bad for audiences in the long run as shows will have lower budgets (think reality tv). However it's great for the audiences in the short term as they get to see content whenever and wherever they like. Media companies need find a way for the audiences to enjoy the content delivered immediately to audiences who want it wherever they are, while maintaining their revenue and profits. This will require a large effort, with changes to regional laws, trade agreements, licencing contracts etc.
In my opinion the best way to avoid all of this is for content producers to sell directly to their audiences. This is hard because good content producers have high costs, and high risk. For every great show you see on TV or great movie you see at the cinema, far more were produced and failed. That cost is also currently paid for by advertisers and out of the profits of successful shows. Things like kickstarter might start to allow for those risks to be taken, but even producing a pilot to start a kickstarter is expensive. Some of the profit from successful shows needs to go into all the failures that will occur before another success. This is why we see crappy how to videos on youtube and not high production value dramas. It's also why the current media companies are the only ones to produce that type of content.
Shows are produced by production companies. That product is sold to networks. The networks sell the show to advertisers. The network is the customer of a show and the advertiser is a customer of the network, not you the audience, you are not a customer, you are a product that the network also sell to advertisers. The real customers of shows, networks and advertisers do use the global market.
Re:Oh whatever by faedle · 2013-07-07 03:58 · Score: 1

I live in a place that has bandwidth caps on home Internet usage. I don't want to use 2 bytes for every byte sent over my home cable modem.
Re:Oh whatever by faedle · 2013-07-07 04:01 · Score: 1

Because the VPN service is cheap (it's bundled with the Usenet service I use) and doesn't require me to open my home firewall. Also, my home internet connection is metered (well, "capped" is more accurate), as is the place I host my website.
It's not always "cheaper" to build something yourself.

Re:Bitcoin by emj · 2013-07-03 10:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

Bitcoin has no privacy, or complete transparency, depending on your viewpoint.

US considered hostile by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 11:04 · Score: 5, Informative

Don't use US services.

Re:US considered hostile by BrokenHalo · 2013-07-03 13:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

While on the face of it, "US considered hostile" might be taken as flamebait, it would seem at the moment to be an accurate characterisation.

A nation (or to be fair, its administration) that continually bullies its own people and citizens of other nations cannot expect to be treated as anything but a pariah. Trouble is, I don't see any other governments having the courage to stand up to the US.
Re:US considered hostile by Grishnakh · 2013-07-03 14:58 · Score: 1

I thought the phrase was "X considered harmful", famously used by Dijkstra in his paper advising against the use of "goto".
Re:US considered hostile by AlphaWolf_HK · 2013-07-03 15:04 · Score: 1

Ironically the US is one of very few countries in the world with no data retention laws, which means US based VPN providers are generally safer.

--
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
Re:US considered hostile by gl4ss · 2013-07-03 17:32 · Score: 1

but you need us ip for some things.
on the other hand, when is amazon going to stop accepting visa and mastercard for their cloud services?

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:US considered hostile by Xest · 2013-07-03 20:21 · Score: 2

Already dropped by US based Usenet provider and web host for precisely this reason. It was getting tiresome having to deal with a host that bowed down to everything the US wanted even though I was doing nothing wrong in my country (or even frankly under US law either, but this isn't about law, it's about morals being imposed by companies outside of the law).
Re:US considered hostile by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 22:05 · Score: 1

Since the U.S. has apparently accepted the idea of secret laws and secret courts to enforce them, how could you know if there is a data retention law or not ?
Re:US considered hostile by gl4ss · 2013-07-04 04:39 · Score: 1

Ironically the US is one of very few countries in the world with no data retention laws, which means US based VPN providers are generally safer.
they have no laws about intercepting your communications either and retaining your online habits so.. how would you know? you can't ask them what data they kept about their transaction with you.

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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.

This is why... by DiSKiLLeR · 2013-07-03 11:07 · Score: 5, Insightful

This is why we need a payment system that does NOT rely on PayPal, Visa, or MasterCard.

And I guess this is why the US Govt. is trying to shut down bitcoin so hard....

--
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.

Re:This is why... by vikingpower · 2013-07-03 11:12 · Score: 2

Amen. I wish I had some mod points for you, which at the moment I don't. This is all about bullying. And more and more of us are getting sick and tired of it. Not only of the bullying itself, but also and rather of the many means there are to practice bullying.

--
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Re:This is why... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 11:21 · Score: 1

Examples please?
Re:This is why... by fredprado · 2013-07-03 11:27 · Score: 1

BTC is far from perfect but it does not have these "so many serious flaws" you seem to believe it has and was quite competently designed.
Re:This is why... by aristotle-dude · 2013-07-03 11:32 · Score: 1

This is why we need a payment system that does NOT rely on PayPal, Visa, or MasterCard.
American Express?

--
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Re:This is why... by jamesh · 2013-07-03 11:43 · Score: 1

BTC isn't the answer, it has too many serious flaws
no it doesn't.
Re:This is why... by nbauman · 2013-07-03 11:45 · Score: 1

Cash?
Re:This is why... by LordLucless · 2013-07-03 11:54 · Score: 4, Funny

And with enough energy and malice, I could burn the galaxy. Your point?

--
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
Re:This is why... by dugancent · 2013-07-03 12:01 · Score: 1

Discover and American Express are two cards I own that have nothing to do with Visa and MasterCard.

--
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
Re:This is why... by tompaulco · 2013-07-03 12:04 · Score: 2

With enough CPU power and malice, i could destroy Bitcoin in its current incarnation.
Which is why you are not given enough CPU power. It is distributed to prevent people from accumulating enough to destroy it. If you bought all of the world's top supercomputers, you would not have enough CPU power to "take over" bitcoin.
Also, you couldn't destroy bitcoin even if you did have over 50% of the horsepower, you could only invalidate your recent transactions, and prevent other transactions from being recorded. it would have to be out of sheer malice, because there is no way you could make it financially positive for you.

--
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Re:This is why... by symbolset · 2013-07-03 12:29 · Score: 1

A lot of these companies take plain old American currency, passed through the mail. "Please credit account Joesmomma$-$@@@32&rfc1394 in the amount of $200, which you will find enclosed. Sincerely, onetimus anonimus, 42 bogus lane, Smallville PA #####."

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Re:This is why... by hedwards · 2013-07-03 12:41 · Score: 1

Yes it does, and they've been discussed a ton over the last couple years here.
The implementation will lead inevitably to deflation and the currency seizing up, assuming of course that the authorities don't crack down on it being used to transfer funds around the world without the normal paperwork.
Re:This is why... by mysidia · 2013-07-03 12:41 · Score: 1

With enough CPU power and malice, i could destroy Bitcoin in its current incarnation.
But enough CPU power is not a fixed quantity; that is a number that keeps going up continuously, at a faster and faster rate.
The larger the bitcoin mining networks become, the larger that quantity, until it is so large, that it is no one entity could round up sufficient CPU power.
Re:This is why... by DerekLyons · 2013-07-03 12:44 · Score: 1

If the US government was trying to shutdown Bitcoin - you'd have a point.
Re:This is why... by Misagon · 2013-07-03 13:34 · Score: 1

At least, within the European Union, regular bank transfers are free (to a certain extent).
But then, governments (and in some cases, banks) can freeze bank accounts.

--
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
Re:This is why... by BrokenHalo · 2013-07-03 13:42 · Score: 1

American Express?
Certainly, sir.

And would you like to rub my tits too?
Re:This is why... by spire3661 · 2013-07-03 14:30 · Score: 1

Its exactly why i included the term. If I had the capital to do it, i might try to break bitcoin for funsies. I know I cant be the only one.

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Good-bye
Re:This is why... by AlphaWolf_HK · 2013-07-03 15:12 · Score: 1, Insightful

No, you can't.
Suppose there were only 10 bitcoins in the world all sequentially numbered, and I owned number 2 and 5. If I want to pay Paul a bitcoin, I tell everybody on the bitcoin peer network that I am giving him coin 2. Everybody now knows he has coin 2. Unless he tells everybody that he is giving away 2, your CPU can't interject and say "guess what guys, I have 2", I don't care if it was invented by god and jesus combined.
If you think you can, put up or shut up: Show us the math.

--
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
Re:This is why... by aristotle-dude · 2013-07-03 19:00 · Score: 1

American Express?
Certainly, sir. And would you like to rub my tits too?
What?

--
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Re:This is why... by vikingpower · 2013-07-03 19:40 · Score: 1

Gold and silver.

--
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Re:This is why... by jez9999 · 2013-07-03 20:21 · Score: 1

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF-U9nL9Ios

--
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Re:This is why... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 20:31 · Score: 1

actually if he had over 51% (lets say he creates additional coins 11 - 21 ) he can just claim that coins 1-10 are all invalid and everyone would believe him since he has majority in his possession (he has 11 coins out of 21)
Re:This is why... by kbg · 2013-07-04 01:28 · Score: 1

It is problematic to try to stuff cash through the tubes on the Interweb
Re:This is why... by BrokenHalo · 2013-07-04 02:13 · Score: 1

A virtual beer to you, sir, for picking up the reference. Sometimes the kids around here can really make you feel your age. :D
Re:This is why... by spire3661 · 2013-07-04 05:40 · Score: 1

Your link doesnt address the 51% total CPU power flaw at all, which is what i was referring to.

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Good-bye
Re:This is why... by spire3661 · 2013-07-04 06:26 · Score: 1

Your statement is exactly why i think we are gods.

--
Good-bye
Re:This is why... by SuperTechnoNerd · 2013-07-04 06:50 · Score: 1

They (us gov) and our corporate overlords are soooo afraid of loosing control - they must keep tightening the leash..
Tighter and tighter..
Until ___________________________.

Please fill in the blank as you see fit.
Re:This is why... by aristotle-dude · 2013-07-06 09:02 · Score: 1

He's pointing out kindly what a complete idiot you are.
Well not everyone has time to memorize every internet video on the internet there son. Also, not everyone on here is an American.

--
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.

Re:Good For Them by hedwards · 2013-07-03 11:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

As somebody who used to live and work in China, I find this to be rather unfortunate. VPNs are neither good nor bad by any inherent reasoning, but what this means is that people in regions that have oppressive regimes are going to find it harder to get access to the web unfiltered as it's going to be harder and harder to fund the services.

Ultimately, if the US government has had any input in this, it's going to bite them on the ass. Well, it will bite them on the ass, regardless of causation.

Hmm, maybe they should... by countach · 2013-07-03 11:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

Hmm, maybe they should rename their services. "Remote internet ISP services" or "SSL internet connection", or some other obfuscated name. They can't ban everything associated with the internet.

Re:Hmm, maybe they should... by dgatwood · 2013-07-03 13:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

They can't ban everything associated with the internet.
Yeah, they can. That's why this is so scary. ISPs are VPN providers just waiting to happen. Every ISP that provides shell accounts can easily become someone's VPN provider, through no fault of their own.
First, they came for the VPN providers....

--
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

Use Amex? :) by Ritz_Just_Ritz · 2013-07-03 11:19 · Score: 1

Surely there are other forms of payment that are acceptable to this Swedish VPN provider? Vote with your feet.

Who knows if they're under pressure from the NSA or other bad actors...perhaps it's just related to CC fraud? In either case...see above.

Lo-Tek Solution by TechForensics · 2013-07-03 11:27 · Score: 1

What's the big deal? Pay by check! What's a week or two to save your rights?

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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

Re:Lo-Tek Solution by nbauman · 2013-07-03 11:54 · Score: 1

I wonder. There isn't any way to prevent them from cashing my check, is there?
I pay somebody by check, they deposit it to their bank, it goes through the international clearinghouse, gets paid by my bank, and get charged to my account.
The clearinghouse can't just decide not to pay checks drawn to iPredator, is there? It's a legally binding obligation.
Or if there was, it would be easy to get around it, right? iPredator could open a new account under the name "iPredator's Girlfriend" or something.
Re:Lo-Tek Solution by b4dc0d3r · 2013-07-03 12:50 · Score: 1

Instead of having an anonymous pre-paid credit card that was purchased at a particular store but not tied to you individually, they now have an account number that identifies you as well as you can be identified.
Thanks to money laundering laws and things like Check21 where it's all done electronically, you might as well put your name on every IP packet. It would be easier to find you by your check than figure out which John Smith you are.
Pre-paid still gets processed by the issuer, so you need a processing company other than MC/Visa.
Re:Lo-Tek Solution by mjwx · 2013-07-03 13:00 · Score: 1

What's the big deal? Pay by check! What's a week or two to save your rights?
Sorry, we dont accept personal cheques, especially from foreign banks.

You're still at the mercy of the bank who can choose to not to accept cheques.

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Re:Lo-Tek Solution by c-A-d · 2013-07-03 13:59 · Score: 1

There's always international money order.

--
some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
Re:Lo-Tek Solution by Joe+U · 2013-07-03 14:32 · Score: 1

Better yet, USPS money order paid in cash.
Re:Lo-Tek Solution by TechForensics · 2013-07-05 03:20 · Score: 1

Or actual CASH sent by registered mail. Even if you get ripped off 10% of the time you're ahead.
The recipients could also appoint dozens or hundreds of private citizens to accept payments for them. Let them cut off one and two can spring up in its place.
CitiBank and MBNA may THINK they own the payments systems, Let's show them just how essential they are.
Too many ways around them to even think of all of them.
Yawn.

--
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
Re:Lo-Tek Solution by TechForensics · 2013-07-05 03:22 · Score: 1

So I'll wait for the check to clear. You have the $ before you provide service.
BTW if MC and VISA are out, *all* of these services will take checks. Checks are better than nothing!

--
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

Two thoughts. by pla · 2013-07-03 11:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

1) Why does this not count as illegal collusion within an industry group? That they decided to announce it as a unified decision provides de facto proof that they conspired to deprive their customers of choice. If my itty bitty company made a similar joint announcement with one of our biggest competitors in the region, half a dozen state AGs would have us in court before the newsprint dried on the initial announcement.

2) I make use of these usurious parasites' services because it lets me conveniently move my money from place to place without worrying about the security of either cash or my real bank accounts, and I can essentially do all my spending with one tidy itemized monthly bill. If I can no longer use Visa to purchase the goods and services I want, I no longer have a reason to use Visa at all.

And a bonus thought, for good measure - For those talking about the NSA or Bitcoin - This involves regional protection of content, a favor to Hollywood, nothing more and nothing less. At least direct your vitriol in the right direction, folks.

Re:Two thoughts. by dk20 · 2013-07-03 11:55 · Score: 1

Congratulations now Canadians cant watch US netflix and the world is that much safer. Good thing the real financial problems were left alone (google "some large bank" + money laundering).
HSBC paid $1.9 billion to settle charges...
Standard Chartered paid $327 Million...
etc...
Perhaps this will motivate netflix to adjust the price based on the content?
Netflix USA = 7.99 US/month
Netflix CA = 7.99 CAD/month for a lot less (a ton of content is regionally locked).
Re:Two thoughts. by LordLucless · 2013-07-03 11:59 · Score: 4, Interesting

And a bonus thought, for good measure - For those talking about the NSA or Bitcoin - This involves regional protection of content, a favor to Hollywood, nothing more and nothing less. At least direct your vitriol in the right direction, folks.
This is a favor to Hollywood; last time it was a favour to Government so they could try to starve out Wikileaks. It's a question of control. With the current system, Visa can vritually control who you can and cannot buy goods and services from, putting them in the position of being able to exert de facto control over the economy.
A decentralized payment method (like cash, or bitcoin) puts the control in the owners of the money. Cash has too many historical roots to destroy, but its inherently limited in its ability to make large payments across wide geographical separation. Which is why bitcoin (and any other new, decentralized, electronic currency) is a threat to the existing system.

--
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face

Abuse of power by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 11:38 · Score: 1

This is what happens when industries lack effective competition. The only thing they understand is being sued to hell for discriminatory practice but act quickly before CISPA is snuck into an omnibus at the 11th hour.

They have no problem throwing their weight around because they can get away with it. Merchants don't have a choice - you have to accept bullshit from the major cards no matter what or else you lose business.

The very concept of credit cards is bullshit anyway. What people really need is an easy way to transmit funds rather than keeping account numbers secret and hoping against hope everyone will play nice and it won't be abused. The sooner VISA and Mastercard die off the better off we'll all be. We need something like paypal but with the convinence of a credit card and an infrastructure to allow new players global access to all buyers and sellers from day one.

Re:Abuse of power by blackest_k · 2013-07-03 21:22 · Score: 1

Paypal is more expensive than visa especially where 2 different countries are involved. While you still get to pay a percentage of the price its a smaller percentage than paypal takes with its slice of the deal.
With visa debit you can see the dayrate is higher than paypal offers even with the banks cut. Credit cards do have a risk in that the rate may go against you on the day the transaction is processed but most of the time you win.
Obviously there are other issues such as the vpn issue but there are always ways to pay.

--
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants

Censorship is live and well everywhere by dk20 · 2013-07-03 11:41 · Score: 2

The only thing that changes is how its implemented. Communist countries control the press, we control it via finances.

Re:Censorship is live and well everywhere by Type44Q · 2013-07-03 12:55 · Score: 2

Our country controls it, too; google "Operation Mockingbird."

There's other cards by c-A-d · 2013-07-03 11:41 · Score: 1

Amex and Discover are still available. Not sure how viable that is though.

--
some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.

Re:Good For Them by Luckyo · 2013-07-03 11:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

It just looks like the gloves came off with the whole Snowden affair. They now know they can get away with pretty much anything and the propaganda machine will keep up appearances well enough for the masses to accept it, and as a result the two-faced "protecting the freedom" with all its problems like VPNs can be finally finished.

Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by keneng · 2013-07-03 11:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

Bitcoin, the first world digital currency exists. Bitcoin will be the best match for getting things bought and sold anywhere on the internet and in the real world while preserving our digital freedoms and digital privacy. Bitcoin is decentralized. No single government may control it. There are service fees like traditional banks, but the manner in which these fees are distributed is very different and fairly distributed. It has every reason to succeed over the traditional currency exchange scheme.

MASTERCARD and VISA want to help the current super powers take away our digital freedoms and digital privacy by refusing to do business with VPN providers.

Boycott Mastercard and Visa. Stop doing business with VISA and MASTERCARD.
Learn to use Bitcoin instead of VISA and MASTERCARD.

"Ideas and Discoveries" magazine brings up the idea "The Internet will become the new world SUPERPOWER" and "operates more effectively than America or China". Since no single government may control Bitcoin, Bitcoin is a good match with the new INTERNET SUPERPOWER because both do well at preserving digital freedoms and digital privacy especially because both are decentralized.

Re: Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by awehttam · 2013-07-03 15:28 · Score: 1

No single government can control it? I don't know if the 51% attack is really a problem, but what's to stop the us government from mining bit coin! The NSA has plenty of super computing power don't they? ;) Bitcoin is auto taxing too. Miners collect fees from blocks they solve.

Call the WTO, the IMF, the marines! by fustakrakich · 2013-07-03 12:02 · Score: 4, Funny

This is a restriction of trade. If we can force people to buy tainted beef and GMO foods, surely we can beat this.

--
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by lgw · 2013-07-03 12:04 · Score: 4, Insightful

Learn to use Bitcoin instead of VISA and MASTERCARD.

Sure. How do I buy bitcoins without using Visa or MasterCard (or Paypal)?

--
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.

Re:Bitcoin by lgw · 2013-07-03 12:05 · Score: 1

I'm sure the NSA logs every bitcoin transaction, but I somehow doubt the copyright cartel does, which I'm guessing is the point of these VPNs.

--
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.

Very suspicious by SoftwareArtist · 2013-07-03 12:10 · Score: 5, Interesting

Does anyone else find this story very suspicious? I mean, VPN services are completely mainstream, widely used by business people. I bet that even MasterCard and Visa use them. And suddenly we're told there's a conspiracy to ban them. And the poster attributes this to the NSA wanting to spy on us. All based on completely anecdotal reports from one company that you've probably never heard of before.

I suspect the summary will turn out to be a complete misrepresentation, and the truth will be something far less evil and far less interesting than this post makes it out to be.

--
"I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."

Re:Very suspicious by squiggleslash · 2013-07-03 14:52 · Score: 2

VPN protocols are mainstream and widely used by business people, but not VPN providers (using the term in the article headline) - that is, an ISP that instead of being accessed by its customers over phone lines, DSL links, or cables, is instead accessed by customers via a VPN protocol over the Internet.
Business people use VPNs to access their office networks. You don't need a VPN provider to do that. Business people generally wouldn't have much of a use for VPN providers - the only use I can think of off the top of my head is for testing connectivity, which is something your business's technical team might do, and which is an application where such a service constitutes massive over-engineering.
Otherwise... VPN providers are generally useful when you have to disguise your IP address for some reason. I guess they're also possibly useful (I've never used one so I don't know how well this would work) if you need an additional IP address, for running a server or something similar. The latter is obviously legitimate. The former may or may not be, but the immediate reasons for hiding your real IP address that come to mind are not legal.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Very suspicious by gl4ss · 2013-07-03 17:38 · Score: 1

it's quite common for agencies and companies to use VPN providers.
it's not that uncommon to use them for both office and home networks, virtualizing the whole private part of network - and by doing this forcing people to use encryption when connection to the network.

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:Very suspicious by BillKaos · 2013-07-03 18:38 · Score: 1

It is likely the case that the VPN providers were involved with some form of SPAM.
Cutting off Visa/Mastercard processing to the spammers clients such as online pharmacies has been a very successful approach:
http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/05/20/2252225/a-new-approach-to-reducing-spam-go-after-credit-processors
No gain = no SPAM
Re:Very suspicious by AbRASiON · 2013-07-03 19:05 · Score: 1

I find it quite the opposite with all the things going on in the world in the last 5 to 10 years, if anything I'd be not surprised if this is something quite serious.
Re:Very suspicious by squiggleslash · 2013-07-03 22:52 · Score: 1

Again though that's not what's being talked about here. In this context VPN providers means an ISP you connect to over the Internet, not a private network, virtual or otherwise.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Very suspicious by sociocapitalist · 2013-07-03 23:46 · Score: 1

Does anyone else find this story very suspicious?
No
I find it very much in line with other moves the US has taken against privacy and the funding of 'undesirable elements' that we've seen in the recent past.

--
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
Re:Very suspicious by vux984 · 2013-07-04 05:01 · Score: 1

From the full article:
Update July 4: Visa Europe told us that it âoehas not been involved in this matter in any way, and has not made any such stipulations to Payson or to any other organisation.â Visa believes that the issue was raised by Paysonâ(TM)s acquiring bank, which acts as an intermediary between payment processors and card associations such as Visa and MasterCard.
We have asked Payson to clarify the discrepancy and will update the article when we hear back from them.
Mastercard has not responded yet.

I didn't know VPNs were a problem by tompaulco · 2013-07-03 12:10 · Score: 1

Seriously, how big of a problem is this, that they need to be shutting down payment methods in an attempt to make you stop using them? I wasn't even aware that anybody did anything illegal with them. I didn't know until reading some of the comments that some people use them for getting around region encoding. Nevermind that region encoding ought to be illegal as it is. But still, if you sell a million hammers, and one guy uses a hammer to break a window, will Visa and MC stop processing payments for hammers?

--
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.

Re:I didn't know VPNs were a problem by bloodhawk · 2013-07-04 00:16 · Score: 1

Getting around region encoding isn't illegal. It does breach some companies ToS but that is hardly illegal. Geo Fencing via IP is a poor mans security fence, most of the providers only do it as a token gesture to the media companies, hence why it is still so easy to get around. I use Hulu and Netflix from Australia, even with the insane costs of bandwidth and data here plus the cost of the VPN service I still save roughly $50 a month by not being raped by our local content provider foxtel. It is sad really, I am happy to pay for my content, yet fucking media companies insist on making it as difficult and unpalatable as possible.

JFK said it best by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 12:11 · Score: 1

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."

alternatives? by Aryeh+Goretsky · 2013-07-03 12:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

Hello,

Does the ban extend to VPS providers like Linode and Lowendbox (et al), or cloud services like Amazon AWS or Google Cloud which could host a VPN? If not, perhaps provisioning a VPN server is one of these is an alternative.

Credit card companies and payment processors might be less willing to suspend operations with Amazon or Google.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

--
Dexter is a good dog.

Re:alternatives? by CastrTroy · 2013-07-03 12:57 · Score: 1

Since they aren't really doing anything illegal in the first place, you'll probably see a lot of companies get creative, like offering shared web hosting which just happens to come with a feature that allows you to use it as a VPN, but they don't advertise it as a VPN, so they are still able to continue accepting payments. Worst case scenario you lose the ability to collect payments using VISA and MasterCard. But you can probably still accept payments via PayPal. You could sell magazine which happen to contain free access codes to VPN services. There's a million ways to get around this kind of stuff. I guess the idea is they just want to make it hard enough for the average person to not be able to figure it out.

--

Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Re:alternatives? by mjwx · 2013-07-03 13:04 · Score: 1

I believe people like Amazon, et al. are offering virtual desktops now. So called "in the cloud" machines.

The alternative to using a VPN is simply to rent a box (virtual or physical) in the US, then make your purchases from that box. Seeing as the endpoint as far as the merchant is concerned is in the US there is no real way to block it (well you could try playing whack-a-mole with "cloud" service providers and well, good luck with that.

It's the same as using freight forwarders, but a lot harder to blacklist.

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 12:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

| Sure. How do I buy bitcoins without using Visa or MasterCard (or Paypal)?

Usually you use Local Bit Coins or any of the methods listed on this new user's guide.

Re:Lo-Tek Solution? Perhaps ... by davecb · 2013-07-03 12:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

Your cheque is an order to the bank to pay $X to Y. If your government outlaws Y, the bank cannot honour your order.

At the moment, banks have a smallish list of countries and companies that have been outlawed, and so the bank cannot pay tme anything. These are organizations/countries claimed to be in of support of terrorism. If the government in question can argue VPNs enable terrorism, they can add VPN companies to the list.

--dave

--
davecb@spamcop.net

Request, and suggestion... by Anachragnome · 2013-07-03 12:15 · Score: 5, Interesting

I personally do not use a VPN service anymore, but have a request for anyone that does. I also request you post results here, in this thread, to share any response you may receive.

Please call your current VPN provider and ask them how to go about paying them for their services without using PayPal, Visa, Mastercard or AmEx. Just see what advice they give to you in order for you to continue using their services (if any).

I am curious as to how the providers themselves are responding to their customers. They may have already come up with a viable alternative payment method that has been kept out of the media.

Re:Request, and suggestion... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 12:42 · Score: 1

Several of them take bitcoin and have been for a while.
Re:Request, and suggestion... by ModernGeek · 2013-07-03 15:01 · Score: 1

I don't use any such services, but I would imagine that they will just go towards using a bank draft by asking for the user's ABA Number / Bank Account Number. Micr toner, gnuMICR font, some check paper, and you're all set to accept payments.

--
Sig: I stole this sig.
Re:Request, and suggestion... by Anachragnome · 2013-07-03 16:50 · Score: 1

Seriously. Nobody?
It makes a difference when it is a current customer asking that question (as opposed to someone just shopping for a VPN service).
Major payment services are really starting to piss me off--they are quite literally trying to decide how and where we spend our money. I would REALLY like to know what other services businesses will be using when people start bailing on the Big (Ol') Boys.
It's just a phone call, folks.
Re:Request, and suggestion... by somenickname · 2013-07-03 17:43 · Score: 5, Informative

You can find a good rundown of privacy and payment options for a lot of popular VPN services here: http://torrentfreak.com/vpn-services-that-take-your-anonymity-seriously-2013-edition-130302/
Basically, if you so choose, you can use a VPN service very anonymously.
Re:Request, and suggestion... by Anachragnome · 2013-07-03 19:20 · Score: 1

Excellent link!
I am totally amazed how many companies are hopping on the bandwagon here--MOST of those companies appear to be intentionally avoiding credit card payment schemes. Most accept BitCoin.
An interesting point is made in one of the VPN reviews--PrivatVPN clearly states that their U.S. servers are NOT anonymous (they log both IP and time-stamp on the incoming ports). I am assuming the Feds jammed this down their throats, and they didn't like it but couldn't do anything to stop it. The question is why don't the other VPNs that have servers in the U.S. state the same disclaimer? In light of the Prism program being made public, this is significant. A publish date of March 12, 2013 makes this review of VPNs pre-Snowden.
Perhaps PrivatVPN was trying "enlighten" us all about the level of intrusion they were subject to in the U.S. without actually saying that the NSA had them by the balls.
Re:Request, and suggestion... by Inda · 2013-07-03 21:36 · Score: 1

I'll take a stab at this, if you don't mind.

Me: I need a way of paying you.

Them: Do you have access to online banking?

Me: Yes, please provide me with your bank key (sort code) and bank account number.

Them: Will our IBAN number do?

Me: yes.

PS. I know "IBAN number" is wrong, but that's what will be said.

There really isn't a problem with paying anyone in the world with a bank account. No fees too!

--
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Re:Request, and suggestion... by dj245 · 2013-07-04 05:43 · Score: 1

I tried to use a service once which accepted various european-only bank transfer methods, or Paysafecard. Seemed ideal. I go to a gas station and buy a prepaid card/code using cash, then give the code to the provider and they credit my account. Unfortunately in both the 2 gas stations (both listed as vendors on (paysafecard.com) I went to, the clerks had no idea what I was talking about. I still don't know if they weren't familiar with this thing, or if the gas stations no longer carry these cards. It just isn't common enough to be usable in my area.

--
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.

Go to EU courts and have Visa/Mastercard banned! by Tasha26 · 2013-07-03 12:31 · Score: 2

I thought foreign companies such as Paypal, Visa and Mastercard had to obey certain laws before being given access to EU customers/clients and that this right could be revoked at any time if they failed to comply? Then how come these miscreants are regularly discriminating against certain EU customers?

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by lgw · 2013-07-03 12:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

Heh, that local bitcoins site is great. "Meet me outside my apartment building and hand me cash, and sure enough you'll get some bitcoins, I promise, pinky swear".

Anyone with any better advice?

--
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by venom85 · 2013-07-03 12:39 · Score: 2

Sure. How do I buy bitcoins without using Visa or MasterCard (or Paypal)?

Use Discover.

Not all win for the USA by gnoshi · 2013-07-03 12:46 · Score: 1

For those of us outside the USA who use US-based VPN providers to avoid data retention by our own countries, these VPN providers ensured our traffic was routed via the US and thus could be collected.

Thus, consequences of this are:
1. People in more oppressive states who were using VPNs are now more exposed (if the VPN was being paid for by credit card, even by someone outside that state)
2. If those VPNs were in the US, the NSA can no longer as readily monitor the communications of those people

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by InvalidError · 2013-07-03 12:55 · Score: 1

The problem is if you want to buy or sell bitcoins for normal currencies, you need to go through exchanges and many governments are planning to regulate those exchanges to collect income and sales taxes. If companies are going to use bitcoins for trade, governments will likely tell companies trading within their territory to apply taxes to those bitcoin transactions too.

While governments may not control bitcoin directly, they do have control over entities trading using it within their territory.

Bitcoin may sound nice for tax evasion purposes but if governments make a big deal out of it, it may not last for very long.

Good or bad VPNs by PPH · 2013-07-03 13:20 · Score: 1

How many people use their workplace computer during coffee/lunch breaks to make on-line purchases? And how many of these corporate intranets appear as VPNs to the outside world? That is; a gateway beyond which no IP or location data can be deduced. Are MasterCard and Visa willing to pass up such aa large chunk of business?

Not every VPN service is named TorrentFreak, iPredator or sets the IPv4 'evil' bit. Some smart people will set one up with a 'respectable' name and probably bypass the MasterCard/Visa ban.

--
Have gnu, will travel.

Re:Use Amex? :) by wbr1 · 2013-07-03 13:33 · Score: 1

Voting with your feet is nice, but the VPN payments the credit card companies are disallowing probably amount to lest than a tenth of one hundredth of one percent of their revenue. Even if every pissed off VPN customer took ALL their credit transactions elsewhere it would still be but a drop in the ocean compared to their quarterly income.

Therefore than can easily cowtow to whoever demanded this, be it the NSA or the MAFIAA.

Voting with your feet here does little, unless you get 100 friends to as well. And since we are all basement dwellers here, it is unlikely that we could muster up 10 friends between us all :-D

My pessimistic cynicism does not mean that you should not, however vote with your feet, I will as soon as I am able. I plan to walk to another country. I just do not know which one yet.

--
Silence is a state of mime.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 13:43 · Score: 3, Insightful

Uhhm, you _can_ verify that. Just whip out your phone and make sure the coins were sent before you give cash or buy from someone well trusted.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Eightbitgnosis · 2013-07-03 13:45 · Score: 1

www.coinbase.com

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 13:47 · Score: 1

The problem I have with these "Internet Superpower" concepts is that their proponents seem to forget (or ignore) that the internet runs on equipment located in the physical world and that people also exist in the physical world. As long as one exists in a physical location one is never truly free from the threat of physical harm.
While I would love to see Bitcoin (or something like it) succeed, it has a major failing: It is not universally accepted in the physical world and as long as a government can reach out and touch a person or their equipment it may never achieve that acceptance. Bitcoin (at the moment) is simply bartering with an extra step involved. It's wonderful that iPredator and maybe even the local pizza parlor accept Bitcoin, but I bet that the power company and the tax man don't. If these service providers can't reliably convert Bitcoin into local currency the whole system will fall apart very quickly.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Meshugga · 2013-07-03 13:50 · Score: 1, Interesting

A roommate is on there, and it works like a charm for him, he earns a wee bit of money selling bitcoins. He's thinking about how to protect himself against robberies, but I guess it's the same with any sort of dealing that involves value. So far there weren't any problems beyond the occassional buyer flaking out.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by theskipper · 2013-07-03 13:53 · Score: 5, Interesting

I withdrew $500 in cash from my bank, went to Walmart and had a Moneygram sent to Bitinstant. Within an hour it was in my Mt Gox account, minus all the fixed and transaction fees (a somewhat hefty $25). Certainly inconvenient but the process is pretty straightforward once you understand how it works. YMMV.

Of course this doesn't consider what's involved in getting USD out of Mt. Gox which is ideally just the inverse. But I planned on spending the bitcoins so it wasn't a consideration.

"Right To Serve" (with your home ISP) related?? by jdogalt · 2013-07-03 13:53 · Score: 1

It just looks like the gloves came off with the whole Snowden affair. They now know they can get away with pretty much anything

To be more of an optimist- keep in mind that "They" is a lot of people. Some of them are helping trample human rights. Many of them however just need to be shown an effective way to fight back against the organized criminal snoops. I know this will sound very tinfoil hattish, but hey, it's the snow crash season I think, so, I'll just spam about how I think my current 53-page manifesto that just got served to Google(Fiber) via the FCC(and Kansas Attorney General, and with schneier@schneier.com wishing my cause "Good Luck.")...

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3929983&cid=44170993

I've used the fact that GoogleFiber was my first ISP choice involving IPv6 to press a new novel interpretation of NetworkNeutrality. It seems to be going somewhere. ComIntercept(FCC->Google):

"The enclosed informal complaint, dated September 1, 2012, has been filed with the Commission by Douglas McClendon against Google pursuant to section 1.41 of Comissions's Rules, 47 C.F.R. // 1.41. Also attached is Mr. McClendon's October 24, 2012 complaint forwarded to the FCC by the Kansas Office of the Attorney General. Mr. McClendon asserts that Google's policy prohibiting use of its fixed broadband internet service (Google Fiber connection) to host any type of server violates the Open Internet Order, FCC 10-201, and the Commission's rules at 47 C.F.R. // 8.1-11.

We are forwarding a copy of the informal complaint so that you may satisfy or answer the informal complaint based on a thorough review of all relevant records and other information. You should respond in writing specifically and comprehensively to all material allegations raised in the informal complaint, being sure not to include the specifics of any confidential settlement discussions. ...

Your written response to the informal complaint must be filed with the Commission contact listed below by U.S. mail and e-mail by July 29, 2013. On that same day, you must mail and e-mail your response to Douglas McClendon.

The parties shall retain all records that may be relevant to the informal complaint until final Commission disposition of the informal complaint or of any formal complaint that may arise from this matter. See 47 C.F.R. //1.812-17. (seriously, can't I and Google just depend on the NSA's backups of our records? :)

Failure of any person to answer any lawful Commission inquiry is considered a misdemeanor punishable by a fine... ... ...

http://cloudsession.com/dawg/downloads/misc/mcclendon_notice_of_informal_complaint.pdf
http://cloudsession.com/dawg/downloads/misc/mcclendon_oct24_2012_complaint.pdf

This represents Google getting 'served' this week, my form 2000F 'informal' 53 page complaint that suggests that NetNeutrality provides protections against ISP blocking to my home servers as well as to Skype's. Google has been compelled by the government to respond to me on July 29th. GoogleFiber's 'evil' terms of service prohibit hosting any kind of server without prior written permission against your residential connection. And zero transparency for any alternate server-allowed plan rates, or what kinds of reasons they might use to disallow a requested written permission (which is laughable as the FCC 10-201 NetNeutrality document goes out of it's way to laud Tim Berner Lee's invention of the web atop tcp/ip, specifically, without having to have gotten any permission from any government or network provider)

I forwarded the documents to schneier@schneier.com and requested any insight he might have into the matter. I got an email response (theoretically perhaps spoofed) that read "Thanks.\n\nGood Luck."

Re:"Right To Serve" (with your home ISP) related?? by Luckyo · 2013-07-03 14:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

What "many" people want is irrelevant. What's important is what those with power want. Many people can be suppressed in a number of ways ranging from propaganda to intimidation, to control through financial means such as debt, to simply shooting them with a hellfire missile from a drone.
Ars technica had a very good article on a guy on their IRC channel who appears to have been Snowden back in 2000s. Back then he was quoted to state things like "leakers should be shot in the balls" and so on. Basically there will always be plenty of young men who will feel that it is patriotic to defend their country by working for the security apparatus. Most of them rarely if ever come in contact with full scale of it, and the reason why Snowden apparently got to the point where he felt he had to blow the whistle was because in his position of sysadmin he had far more access then any single analyst or operative and could judge the whole rather then a small part of the puzzle.
The result is that tyrants across the world easily stay in power on the back of such young men. When these young men occasionally become Snowdens, they are violently suppressed by those who came after them.
Re:"Right To Serve" (with your home ISP) related?? by OolimPhon · 2013-07-03 22:08 · Score: 1

What "many" people want is irrelevant. What's important is what those with power want.
That worked well in Egypt, didn't it?
Re:"Right To Serve" (with your home ISP) related?? by Gr8Apes · 2013-07-04 02:18 · Score: 2

Note who holds the real power in Egypt - it's not the politicians.

--
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Re:"Right To Serve" (with your home ISP) related?? by jdogalt · 2013-07-04 03:41 · Score: 1

What "many" people want is irrelevant. ...
Sorry bud, you lost me there (well, each subsequent sentence confirmed the initial suspicion). You are wrong. That is really anything that anyone fundamentally needs to immediately gleem from your, admittedly high quality writing/comment. I think you have good insight Luckyo, but you need to check your premises that led you to lead with that statement. Choosing to lead with that statement is what makes you appear to be in league with the precise intimidation apparatus you skillfully describe. Next time, try leading with something like-
What "many" people want may be the core value of democracy, but... life stinks in all these specific ways... *but* here are some ideas of how to get from here to somewhere better with less of that stink.

Oh, fuck off. by Wakko+Warner · 2013-07-03 13:58 · Score: 1, Informative

"I would guess" you're making shit up. You're willing to throw out anonymity and privacy because some people might be circumventing copyright somehow? You're pathetic. (Or you're a government astroturfer. But I repeat myself.)

--
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"

Re:Oh, fuck off. by Tibe · 2013-07-03 14:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

You're crude and fail to understand simple arguments, and some key aspects of language and communication.
You have inferred an opposite point of view to your own from my statements.
This shows you see the world as black and white, and anyone's opinion as either with you entirely or against. This is simply not the case.
I do not have enough data to say anything more than what I guess. I could probably find some.
I am not willing to throw out anonymity and privacy for those who want to circumvent copyright.
The above is in bold so you can see I agree with you.
Ideally media companies would find another way to distribute content. One that suits the users who are prepared to pay for it and themselves.
I would bet that media companies protecting their current, quite flawed, distribution model is the motivation behind stopping payments. Not spying.
Furthermore, grow up.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Sloppy · 2013-07-03 14:11 · Score: 1

In 1771 right before your ancestors went to go confront Joseph Curwen, they did just that. They had a town meeting, exchanged bitcoins, and then went to go confront the sorcerer. Why isn't that good enough for you?

--
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.

Re:Good For Them by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-03 14:17 · Score: 1

You mean money launderers like this, government agencies who provided drug dealers with weapons, and a US government that supported "terrorist" networks such as the contras?

Somehow I don't think that Visa and MasterCard are going to be stopping the big guys.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by FuzzNugget · 2013-07-03 14:18 · Score: 2

I would love to. Now how do I actually get the damn things?

I'm a fairly technical person, but I've spent hours dicking around on various trading exchanges and buying sites, but there are just *no* clear directions. Most of them tell me to go to a Walmart to get some tokens or a code or some shit. WTF? I thought this was supposed to be a purely online currency.

Until we have "I PayPal you X dollars/Euros/whatever, you give me Y bitcoins" this newfangled shit just ain't gonna catch on.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by tepples · 2013-07-03 14:21 · Score: 1

Too bad the closest exchange on LocalBitcoins is 79.8 miles away from where I live, way too far for my bike.

Re:How about this way by Grishnakh · 2013-07-03 14:48 · Score: 1

Or you can use Tide laundry detergent.

http://bastiat.mises.org/2012/03/tide-as-money/

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by saihung · 2013-07-03 14:55 · Score: 2

I just use my bank's online money transfer system. I didn't have to go anywhere or physically buy anything.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by ShanghaiBill · 2013-07-03 15:02 · Score: 4, Interesting

That question is only relevant until I'm able to earn part of my salary directly in bitcoins.

Then it is already relevant to some people. I employ a graphic artist that lives in Karachi, Pakistan. Paypal doesn't work in Pakistan. I used to pay her with a quarterly wire transfer, but that ate up about 5% of her salary in fees. So now I pay her in bitcoins, and the transaction fees are less than 1%.

Re:How about this way by ShanghaiBill · 2013-07-03 15:06 · Score: 1

Go to bottle shop. Exchange money for beer. Go to service provider. Exchange beer for services. Less hassle, been used for low grade tax evasion for years

Wouldn't it be easier to just pay the service provider in cash?

Face it people VISA and Mastercard are abusive. by deficit · 2013-07-03 15:12 · Score: 1

I have ran online businesses for many years and hate the fact I must accept the cards to make a living. I have successfully transitioned many customers to paying with Western Union or Bank Transfer. Starting to use Bitcoin as well but really we need alternatives that the masses can use.

If they outlaw encryption ... by Crypto+Gnome · 2013-07-03 15:16 · Score: 2

Then only outlaws will have encryption.

Of course, OUTLAWING it would incur a MASSIVE backlash from the population (insert legal challenge here).

By denying encryption FINANCIALLY, you achieve the same thing with SIGNIFICANTLY less opportunity for a legal challenge.

As Paul once said "He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing."

--
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.

Re:If they outlaw encryption ... by king+neckbeard · 2013-07-04 03:19 · Score: 1

Also, encryption is necessary for a TON of businesses. VPNs specifically as well.

--
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Opportunist · 2013-07-03 15:32 · Score: 2

Well, technically, banks do the same when you deposit money. And given their recent record of honesty, reliability and stability, I don't really see THAT much of a difference to be honest.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by sg_oneill · 2013-07-03 16:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

Ah yes, undercutting local labor markets with third world labor PLUS bitcoins!

Liberty is at hand folks!!!!

--
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by FuzzNugget · 2013-07-03 16:12 · Score: 1

And if I don't live in any one of those locations in that limited selection?

Start using I2P. by Burz · 2013-07-03 19:05 · Score: 1

Take the finance out of the equation.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by DrXym · 2013-07-03 20:37 · Score: 1

Bitcoins leave a digital trail wherever they go because it distributes the transaction chains over P2P . I'm quite certain it's with the government's capability to visualize the flow of bitcoins if they so felt, figure out who is hoarding them and so forth. I suppose certain countermeasures could be used to confuse the picture somewhat e.g. shattering bitcoins, sending them flying through a web of "laundering" services and reconstituting them, using multiple wallets but at the end of the day there is still a trail leading from person X to person Y. I doubt many people would go to those lengths and if they did they're probably singling themselves out by such activity.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by DrXym · 2013-07-03 20:40 · Score: 1

Liberty Reserve had a similar system of transferring funds and unsurprisingly it was used in the main by criminals looking to launder money between countries. So good luck with your "local bitcoin" merchants since they're likely the exact same money launderers and just about as trustworthy.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by DrXym · 2013-07-03 20:44 · Score: 2

And "technically" a pharmacist is just a drug dealer. But would you fill your prescriptions from a guy standing on a street corner?

The answer of course is no for obvious reasons. And those obvious reasons also apply when discussing exchanging currencies in banks vs some guy you arrange to meet in a parking lot or wherever.

Re:Lets play politics by blane.bramble · 2013-07-03 21:02 · Score: 2

Private Interconnection Environment

Let them tell the world you can't use Visa or Mastercard to buy PIEs

What's wrong with cash? by johanw · 2013-07-03 21:59 · Score: 1

Just pay them by sending cash in an envelope. Plain and simple, anonymous (which Bitcoins are not) and no banks needed. Opening all letters by hand is far to labour-intensive so they won't do that, and the US will find it much harder to spy on other nation's snail mail anyway.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by pantaril · 2013-07-03 22:54 · Score: 1

Sure. How do I buy bitcoins without using Visa or MasterCard (or Paypal)?

Send money via wire transfer from your bank account to exchange and just buy them.

Dunno about USA but people from EU can do this cheaply using SEPA payments from their bank.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by 228e2 · 2013-07-03 22:56 · Score: 1

You dont see how that is any different? The only way this isnt any different is if you dont use a FDIC bank . . . then I cant feel too bad for you

--
Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by goose-incarnated · 2013-07-03 23:00 · Score: 1

No single government may control it [bitcoin]

Of course they can't; they'll be forced to accept it for tax, right?

(Hint: if you're forced to convert it into real currency to pay tax on all the transactions you performed with bitcoin, then there's no point in having it as you'll soon run out of real money)

--
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.

Translated referenced email by sociocapitalist · 2013-07-03 23:44 · Score: 2

Following the link in TFA the email from Payson translates imperfectly but readably (via Google translate) to:

Payson when recently updated its policy on payments. 1 associated with this
examined your nemsida ocn then noticed that you verKsamnet unfortunately not
meets the requirements of Payson.
Payson when restrictions are against anonymization (including VPN services)
That when as a result decided to Payson unfortunately no longer can give your Customers
ability to fund the payment via their card (VISA or MasterCard).
Changes Will be done 2013-07-01 ocn then no longer possible for you to take
against this type of tranSactIOnS through Payson's integrated payment solution.
The restriction does not affect the rest of your insättningsmetedeL Payson ocn
possibility inieggad the Account implement tranSactIOnS Will not NOR to
affected by the change.
We apologize if this causes problems for you ocn are available to help you solve
This conflict with the policy wherever possible.
Sincerely,
Payson

--
blindly antisocialist = antisocial

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by AmiMoJo · 2013-07-03 23:56 · Score: 1

The problem I have is the wildly fluctuating exchange rate. Sellers don't update their prices as fast as it changes. If I want to pay for a VPN service in BitCoins (I currently use PayPal) then I would like to know that the cost isn't going to triple in a month.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC

e-Hawala by namgge · 2013-07-04 00:05 · Score: 1

So, whoever holds the patent for e-Hawala, i.e.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala

but "on a computer" has just hit pay-dirt.

Namgge

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Yvanhoe · 2013-07-04 00:21 · Score: 1

I used wire transfers to MtGox.

--
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by mcgrew · 2013-07-04 00:57 · Score: 1

Bitcoin, the first world digital currency exists.

So do paper checks (cheques for you Brits), envelopes, postage stamps, and physical addresses. Back when I had web sites, I paid my Canadian registrar and web host that way. And there's electronic banking as well.

This is just an inconvenience, not a catastrophe. That said, it's one more thing our corporo-governmental overlords have done lately to piss everyone off.

--
Free Martian Whores!

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by smash · 2013-07-04 01:21 · Score: 1

By selling goods or services.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.

Re:Good For Them by gutnor · 2013-07-04 01:39 · Score: 1

They got away with torturing people in Guantanamo. It is even used as a running joke "you will be sent to guantanamo, lol".

At this stage, Obama could get away shooting a school bus in France by simply saying "I don't care about foreign kids preventing a missile serving justice to a hideous pirate causing some grief to my wealthy friends in Hollywood." Of course France would moan a little, but nothing else significant would happen. You just don't mess with an army that alone has the budget of a large first world nation.

One question by koan · 2013-07-04 01:41 · Score: 1

Is it legal for them to block a legit business?

This is your future when there is no more cash and you only have a card or your phone, they know what you buy, they decide what you can buy, and you can not resell it, this is a World that could only come from out of control business/corporations.

--
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."

One other thing by koan · 2013-07-04 01:44 · Score: 1

If they can do this don't be naive and say something like "We will just use Bitcoin" because they have already made BC useless.

--
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Richy_T · 2013-07-04 02:18 · Score: 1

It is purely online. The problem you are having is with your fiat money.

how behind are these people? by slashmydots · 2013-07-04 02:27 · Score: 1

Tor is free btw. What are they, stuck in the 90's?

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by RoTNCoRE · 2013-07-04 03:01 · Score: 2

Because we've paid for it in blood with the creation of unions and the labor movement. We also pay taxes from our earnings to support a much better infrastructure, social safety net and (full circle) pay for our industrial security complex war machine.

You are looking at this the wrong way...why don't the third world workers deserve to be paid more?

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by prelelat · 2013-07-04 04:52 · Score: 1

The worlds becoming a global economy and I have no problems paying someone over seas. I have no hard feelings over it morally, they are people too and they deserve jobs. That is if they are properly compensated and working conditions for that person are fine. If you build a good working relationship with someone and they provide good services and people on both sides are happy then it shouldn't matter. Yes that money could go to someone from your country and they could very well distribute that money back into your economy but as the worlds economies become more and more tied to each other does that really matter so much?

What's the point anyways wall street can go and fuck up the local economy in the U.S. and not bat an eye even if everyone put their money back into the local economy.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-04 05:55 · Score: 1

There is ebay-style ranking system and an escrow, which provide safety. It is actually very safe way of buying bitcoins.

EC2 Anyone ? by cullenfluffyjennings · 2013-07-04 08:09 · Score: 1

I think I can run an VPN head end on EC2 and I still seem to be able to pay for that with Visa. But who knows, I look forward to hearing more details about how widespread this is and what is going on. It is really really sad if any government is activity making it harder to use computers in a secure way.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by mgcarley · 2013-07-04 08:16 · Score: 1

...more to the point, how does one buy Bitcoins *using* Visa or Mastercard or Paypal. Maybe I was reading in all the wrong places but I couldn't find an easy way at all, as almost all Bitcoin exchanges go by bank transfers or similar (and then all those vague other methods like Liqpay and PaySafeCard and whatever).

--
Founder & COO, Hayai India (hayai.in) / USA (hayaibroadband.com) // t: @mgcarley

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by hobarrera · 2013-07-04 08:17 · Score: 1

I just traded 300USD worth in bitcoins about half an hour ago. I fail to see how Visa, MC or PP were involved.
Bank transfers work fine too.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by hobarrera · 2013-07-04 08:20 · Score: 1

It is purely online.
Your problem is that you don't have any BTC.

The Internet can be used with as little as a computer. But you still need to make a phonecall to request the service to your ISP.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by peawormsworth · 2013-07-04 09:05 · Score: 1

You buy bitcoins on the street for cash using a site like localcoins. Then you pay for the VPN using the bitcoins. There is no trace.

If you are supper paranoid, you use TOR to access the Internet through wifi hotspots while using a different MAC address on your wireless card and signup for the VPN service using a tormail account.

Despite the ledger of bitcoin transfers being apparent, there is no reference to those transactions to you individually. So it is private.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by Opportunist · 2013-07-04 09:14 · Score: 1

Nope, I don't. My bank is actually bound by regulations that deserve that name.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by BalthCat · 2013-07-04 21:56 · Score: 1

THE HAAAAND! THE INVISIBLE HAND! (Thanks, Slashdot, I'm familiar with the meaning of works being entirely in capital letters. Yes, it is like yelling. That would be my goal.)

Re:Boycott VISA MASTERCARD. Start using BITCOIN. by minstrelmike · 2013-07-05 01:19 · Score: 1

What entitles us westerners to earn so much for much less risk, better working conditions, etc?

It's not entitlement; it is the fruit of civilization. We in the US reap the _benefits_ of increased density and mechanization, things that most people in the Western civilized societies complain about ;-)

Calling it entitlement just makes it as cheap as any other complaint about people who apparently are able to choose their own parents. We each reap the costs and benefits of the society we are born in.

Re:USian by faedle · 2013-07-07 04:03 · Score: 1

You got me. I'm about as un-American as they get: I'm a Native/Tribal American.

These damn kids came on my lawn in 1492 and they just won't f#@$ing leave.

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