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French Gov't Runs Vast Electronic Spying Operation of Its Own
Freshly Exhumed writes with this news (quoting The Guardian): "France runs a vast electronic surveillance operation, intercepting and stocking data from citizens' phone and internet activity, using similar methods to the U.S. National Security Agency's Prism programme exposed by Edward Snowden, Le Monde has reported. An investigation by the French daily [en français; Google translation] found that the DGSE, France's external intelligence agency, had spied on the French public's phone calls, emails and internet activity. The agency intercepted signals from computers and phones in France as well as between France and other countries, looking not so much at content but to create a map of 'who is talking to whom,' the paper said."
Now taking bets on which country will be implicated next in sketchy and/or illegal domestic monitoring.
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
/sarcasm
This has been known publicly since the release of the book the Sword and the Shield in the 1990s, and well-known by most larger companies since well before that even. We're persecuting Snowden for being the Captain Obvious of the intelligence community. "Oh noes! The french are spying on us!" Dude. Fucking duh. The french have been spying on everyone since the dark ages. Hell, where do you think the word sabateur comes from? The french pretty much invented industrial espionage.
In other news... why are we threatening the lives of other countries leaders and going on a mad witch hunt for Snowden, wheeling and dealing in backroom deals reminiscent of the cold war era again? Oh right... because he came forward and confirmed what everyone either already suspected, or knew. Which was only necessary because so many people are living in a level of denial that makes the comment "Windows 8 is the best operating system ever!" look like criticism. -_-
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
France does have a huge population of immigrants from N. Africa who after escaping their oppressive Third World shitholes, riot and protest in France because they don't like the society they live in or some such non-sense.
It's the same formula - leave oppressive fundamentalist Islamic society for a Western one and then riot because your new country doesn't have oppressive Islamic laws.
And they wonder why they're prejudiced against.
Al EU nations have to abide by an EU directive that requires telecom companies and internet service providers to record and store the meta-data.
Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive
The article is worded such that I don't yet understand whether the data was stocked for years (because the directive does impose time limits) or if the program has been going for years which is accurate since the directive was issued in 2006.
Well, duh. Of course they do - this is France, the country that made cryptography illegal until it was pointed out to them that this was destroying their ability to participate in electronic commerce.
This is not unexpected, but each revelation just makes the whole situation seem more and more hilarious. The following scenario is probably playing itself out somewhere right now.
NSA Agent 1: "Sir, we've intercepted a French transmission that I think you should take a look at"
NSA Agent 2: "Why, what does it say?"
(Transcript of translated Transmission reads) "Sir, we've intercepted an American transmission that I think you should take a look at"
Here's their own English Translation, just the graphics are only in the french version.
http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2013/07/04/revelations-on-the-french-big-brother_3442665_3224.html
So every government in the world that owns a PC with more than 1 Gig of hard drive space is spying on its citizens. Can't one of them just have the guts to grant him asylum anyway? He's not going to be able to create anywhere near the same level of embarrassment by reannouncing what everyone knows, so just grant him asylum already! Come on Correa, don't be such a sissy flip-flopper.
Over the last decade or so , there have been quite a few major riots by N. African Muslims in Western Europe - especially France. Most times it's because they are incapbable of living in a Free Secular Western society - a society that treats women as equals.
For the love of all that is unholy, how the fuck did this go to +2 Insightful?
You'd understand if you weren't so ignorant, provincial and uninformed.
...thanks to aggressive emperialistic aspirations for hundreds of years...
My great grandparents were mistreated themselves and I don't go around rioting over something that happened to some ancient ancestor of mine. I don't think anyone does this so your reason is unjustified.
Wanna make a list of those that do? Sure, I'll start:
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/00/02/06/0512219/russian-cops-to-monitor-all-internet-traffic
go ahead, add yours
It might be easier to make a list of those that don't :)
I suppose that they could had intercepted all the communication i sent to france based search engines, social networks and mail servers, if ever happened that. But as im not in france, not even in europe, odds that it happened are pretty low. In the other hand, in US most if not all central internet services are located there, my communication with other regions of the world usually goes thru there, and even if not, they went actively going against networks and services located other countries. Could be debatable if the government of a country could watch or not on their own people (specially if we talk about real democracies, not self proclaimed ones that just pick between Kang and Kodos every election), but there is no debate about the right of snooping on every people on the planet.
The technologies enabling this must come from a manufacturer. Just as we got angry at US/EU companies supplying China, Syria and other with equipment to filter their Internet, who is supplying this technology to the US/EU countries?
will be the Netherlands. Word got around, today, that the major Dutch telecom providers have been doing exactly the same thing for several years, in a completely illegal setting.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
I'm so glad I live in a country that can't afford a massive surveillance program like this. At least I'll be spied on by everyone else.
Looks to me like all the major western democracies are engaging in this sort of thing.
The original article seems to indicate that this is actually illegal in France. Interesting. At least they could have passed a secret law and set up a secret court to make it appear better.
Who next to be exposed? Germany? Surely with the all those ex-Ministerium fur Staatssicherheit employees to draw from it would have been easy.
Close your Dailymotion account now... Because, sadly, that's the only online service they can spy on...
Seems like their shit does stink after all. Gotta love that haughty European hypocrisy, and their outrage over American practices. Of course I expect this sort of thing from politicians and the like, but real people are another story. Certainly not all Europeans are like this, but enough to be annoying. I'm as far as you can get from a wrap yourself in the flag and say everything about America is wonderful type, but I do get sick of "you Americans" type posts. It's especially ironic coming from Britons, considering GCHQ practices. Now we know we can add France to the list. I can't wait for the revelations about Germany though, and their vaunted privacy laws. And from the fact is stranger than fiction dept.: it'll turn out that Russia is the least guilty.
P.S. I'm definitely not defending any government's practices, rather I'm say that many practice this snoop up everyone's ass garbage and they should all be condemned.
P.P.S. Thank you Edward Snowden. It seems that you've not only helped the US, but France as well. More countries coming up.
Long before the Chinese were the country in the hotseat for spying, France and Israel were already established professionals in the industrial espionage arena.
Before traveling overseas in the late 80s and early 90s we got lectures about how the French probably had bugs and cameras in our hotel rooms and that they routinely spied on visitors.
Just like the NSA spying shouldn't have been news, but most people act surprised. Seriously, what's the next headline we're going to wake up to? That the Koch family has been funding a vast propaganda network to influence public opinion? That the Chinese have stolen the design of every nuclear warhead in our arsenal? That Pakistan is giving safe harbor to terrorists? Or the FBI was been tipped off and missed both 9/11 and the Boston Marathon bombers?
It's like living in Groundhog Day.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
We're all curious about exactly what data they have, but it shouldn't take more than a sternly worded letter to get the French government to surrender all the data...
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
BREAKING: Easter Island announces "Hey, we're too insignificant to spy on anyone, domestic or international. Come for the statuery, stay for the liberty."
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Keep in mind that if they're reporting on this they're likely privacy advocates, and privacy advocates tend to have a much more expansive view of what is private then the Courts do.
For example state-side you have the right to not talk to the police, but refusing to talk to police can be considered probable cause to get a warrant. It can also be used as evidence against you during your trial. Every privacy advocate hates this, and when the Supremes recently confirmed it there were terrabytes of counter-arguments on the internet; but that didn't change the law.
I figure there are a few possibilities. The first, and the one that I favor, is that the CIA or NSA is ultimately responsible for this leak about France. If there's one thing the US needs right now it is to spread the blame. To show that other people are doing the same. To some people that will seem like a valid defense.
A second possibility is that Snowden, despite his predicament, inspired a French agent to do the same, except anonymously. I find this only slightly less probable than the first possibility.
And finally there is the possibility that the timing is a complete coincidence. I think it's more likely that the moon is made of cheese, but I suppose it is not impossible.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Every nation on earth that can spy at any given level does exactly that. This is why you have nation states which have the technological means to spy keeping their mouths shut about the whole Snowden affair. This is also why backwaters like Bolivia and Ecuador are quick to condemn and make an uproar about the whole thing.
Those countries that can spy, do, those that can't, don't - but they would if they could. Why do you think Russia bluntly asked Snowden to stop leaking documents if he wanted asylum? In the real world every such country does the same damn thing and the US just happened to be the one to have their Snowden come forward. It could have just as easily happened to any other country and the world states know it. Why do you think Snowden hasn't had anyone actually grant him amnesty when he has what would seem to be a treasure trove of intelligence?
Every frigging country does this now. The Americans care about our privacy, so they don't spy on us (sarcasm). The brits do, and they pass this info right on to the yanks at the NSA. I think every country spies on their own citizens to some degree, be it the US, China, France, Israel, GB, or Japan. As Benjamin Franklin said, "Any country that would give up a little liberty for a little security will gain both and deserve neither." That is what is happening now. *sigh*
First, I believe that every human has a natural right to privacy regardless of whatever law anyone creates about it. That said, do the French people have any law that protects their privacy?
Seriously, the people that show up at /. these days only care about going after Americans, not after concepts. It gets old.
No, ALL major nations, and most minor ones as well, are engaging in this. Israel? Canada? Australia? China? Iran? Brazil ? South Africa? Ecuador? Panama? Mexico? Argentina? Venezuela? Cuba? UK? New Zealand? Vietnam? Iceland? Norway? Sweden? Germany? France?
Yey. Ever last one of these are monitoring their nation's telecommunications. EVERY last one.
Of course french people should be concerned, but it is worth noting that this is not PRISM: There is no access to Gmail mailboxes for instance. And as a proof the scope is much smaller than NSA's spying is the size of the datacenter, which fits in a building inside Paris.
But while we get upset, we should not miss why this is revealed right now, while it was obviously known for some time, with parliamentary reports dealing about it. IMO the goal is to minimize Snowden's leaks so that everyone forget about him, and make sure french people do not pressure their government to grant him asylum. And I bet that will work.
So to date lets see:
After Mr. Snowden exposed the USA of committing Espionage against its citizens and most developed and developing countries world wide:
Mr. Obama confirmed that his Regime does indeed commit Espionage against the USA citizens and any other countries citizens that Obama determines as a threat.
Then we learn that GCHQ, The Brits, do mostly the same and along the same lines of 'reason'.
Now we learn about Mr. Hollande's Espionage operations against the peoples of France, and also not to forget the peoples of the World.
If these programmes are really doing what our untrusted 'Leaders' are now fighting over like a 'K-Mart Blue Light Special' I'd be really surprised.
Again, if these programmes can actually do what is asserted, then these programs have detailed information on crimes being planned, plotted and committed, Not Acts of Terror, NO NO, just plain old grand theft larceny and much lessor. So, Each of these governments by way of omission know about actually crimes but say NOTHING about the Real Crimes.
Ha Ha
So the question now comes to MONEY and INFORMATION.
For instance, is Mr. Obama receiving cash 10k to 1M for keeping quiet on the knowledge he has ascertained about Mafia activities in New York City, Chicago or L.A. ?
General Keith of the NSA, how much cash has be received from Mafia sources?
Has Janet 'her ass is as big as a planet' Napolitano received cash for info or Lesbian lovers instead of cash from Mafia sources?
We can go on and on and on and ON.
Hay, What about Eric Holder? Sources tell that he has a 'taste' for 2-year olds! Yes Sir Ri ! His 'taste' in in sex, the first course, and after sex he kills the kid and his chief makes a luscious shepherds pie for Mr. Holder, the second course. Now doesn't that just bring a big USA Red White And Blue tear to your eye or what!
...which is nothing more than the 10,000th iteration of "nothing to see here, move along" buuuuuuuuullshit concern trolling. Yeah, we really all have heard of Echelon, Stasi, Carnivor, the Great Wall of China, COINTELPRO, etc etc. Really.
Wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter who's doing it, or how long it's been around.
Or, because they're tired of putting up with racist bullshit and discrimination from bigots like yourself and the AC who started this thread.
And you know this how?
If ever there was a perfect chance to use the "I'm shocked, SHOCKED" meme, it would be here.
NT
Excuse me... Did you just try to cop the Nuremburg Defence on behalf of the NSA?
I'm just saying you need to blame the politicos who are responsible.
Ergo, blame the politicos, not the NSA. Perfect application of the Nuremberg Defence.
I refer you to the Nuremberg Principle IV
There is always a choice not to follow. One could take the courageous example of acting attorney general James Comey, FBI director Robert Mueller and others in the Bush era :-
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
"In their own words" means that they aren't the words. So what words are you taking to mean the same thing as the eternally repeated blather "The Land of the Free" that you merkins do?
UK: Green and Pleasant Land? No? God Save Our Gracious Queen? No? What, then?
Remember you merkins keep bleating on about the Monarchy as repressive and unrepresentative, and the same with the House of Lords. So it's highly unlikely that you can state that they also claim to be some form of land of freedom. But it will be highly amusing to see you squirm trying to find an interpretation of one.
Go ahead, make my day.
The French are the Americans of Europe. The Americans think they are the entire world, the French think they are the whole of Europe. Nothing new here.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
There are plenty more, you just don't know them... A few, off the top of my head:
- Manuel Valls (interior minister) was born Spanish (in Spain)
- Najat Vallaud-Belkacem (minister for women's rights, government spokeswoman) was born in Morroco
- Kader Arif (junior minister for veterans) was born in Algeria
- Rachida Dati (Justice minister under Sarkozy) was born in France of North African parents
- Fleur Pellerin (current junior minister for digital economy) and Jean-Vincent Placé (one of the leader of the Greens) were born South Korean and were adopted
I also don't know what you consider "non-French ancestry" but there are a few non-whites people from French oversea territories in the government also. The most important of whom is Christiane Taubira, a black woman who is minister of justice and was in charge of the law legalising gay marriage. As far as I know though, her family has been French for at least several generations.
And Sarkozy's familly hasn't been there for a century, his father is a first-generation immigrant who reached France as an adult.
..we must use crypto 100% of time on the internet. Otherwise (for example), North Koreas intelligence agency could intercept your commercial emails and then put them up for auction to the highest bidder (as their industry cannot yet use that intel). So your commercial invention (hard won from long hours of experimentation and other investments) could end up in a Brazilian company who bought your email's content from the Norkies.
I am a little "in the know" and the Norkies do indeed have a serious COMINT capability as part of their special operations/long range reconnaissance command. They have SATCOM receivers on their base in Peng-Yang (or whatever they call it) and they have a very serious cyber attack/reconnaissance cadre in their troop support command. Maybe quite a few routers in Italy effectively belong to the Norkies (for example).
Of course, that's a single example. Maybe Brazilian intelligence themselves will read your plaintext email and give it to a local company.
So:
+always TOR
+always email encrypted (e.g. using a small Truecrypt file system of 1MB or using GNUpg)
+local email server
"Europe" is codeword for "Americas Bitch". Russia, India, China - these are sovereign states.
We French people can't be blame : it is always lawful to spy, because we pass no laws to stop our intelligence services to do whatever they want.