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Snowden Claims That NSA Collaborated With Israel To Write Stuxnet Virus
andrewa writes "In an interview with Der Spiegel Snowden claims that the NSA, amongst other things, collaborated with Israel to write the Stuxnet virus. Not that this is news, as it has been suspected that it was a collaborative effort for some time. When asked about active major programs and how international partners help, Snowden says: 'The partners in the "Five Eyes" (behind which are hidden the secret services of the Americans, the British, the Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians -- ed.) sometimes go even further than the NSA people themselves. Take the Tempora program of the British intelligence GCHQ for instance. Tempora is the first "I save everything" approach ("Full take") in the intelligence world. It sucks in all data, no matter what it is, and which rights are violated by it. This buffered storage allows for subsequent monitoring; not a single bit escapes. Right now, the system is capable of saving three days’ worth of traffic, but that will be optimized. Three days may perhaps not sound like a lot, but it's not just about connection metadata. "Full take" means that the system saves everything. If you send a data packet and if makes its way through the UK, we will get it. If you download anything, and the server is in the UK, then we get it. And if the data about your sick daughter is processed through a London call center, then ... Oh, I think you have understood.'"
not at all surprised. some of us have been saying this kind of thing has been going on forever while all the while getting laughed at for being paranoid. But what I am really interested in is what now happens to Snowden. Russia said they would help him as long as he stopped leaking information. Will Russia do anything about this? or do you think it was just lip service??
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
who suffered financial loss because of stuxnet use this evidence to sue the NSA & Mossad for damages ? If not, why not ?
I think everyone already knew/assumed that.
Or maybe it's not as compartmentalized as you theorise.
Or maybe Snowden was working at a higher level than the US government has admitted.
Or maybe Snowden simply used the skills he was taught to use against the Chinese against his own government.
Either way, what he says has enough validity that world leaders are listening and issuing formal statements over it, and the US isn't denying it, so it's obviously got a reasonable degree of validity to it and isn't just about parroting speculation like you claim.
Same with if an author sends a draft of a book to a publisher.
Seems to me those programs could be charged with piracy, no?
I knew that pretty much from the get-go. Only the truly deluded didn't immediately realize that Mossad and/or the CIA were behind that. Of course, there are always those idiots out there who reflexively deny that the U.S. government is behind ANYTHING--who seem to think that the tens of thousands of employees of the CIA and NSA just sit and stare at walls all day, I guess.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
I've seen that movie. It was really a wormhole!
Just to clue you in on another obvious fact, for those of you who may have somehow missed this too: Mossad has been assassinating Iranian nuclear scientists (with the CIA's full cooperation).
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Yeah it's BS and he made it up, that's why they're hunting him.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
That summary was all over the place. It barely talked about what was in the headline.
He is so desperate to stay in the news that I think he is resorted to parroting what was speculated in the news almost a year ago.
According to the article, the interview was conducted anonymously through a third party before Snowden publicly revealed himself.
I won't speculate on your motives for making such easily disproven claim about Snowden's character.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
... if someone emails someone else a compressed (.zip etc.) file, do the computers automatically decompress it to examine it, or do they store only the compressed version?
I recall people using specially designed .zip archives which decompress to many times their original size (a 10KB file turning into a 100GB file, for instance) as a form of DoS attack. If the spooks have been lazy the same thing might catch their computers out...
An amazingly well written worm designed to target a particular brand of hardware PLCs that most hackers have never even heard of (and certainly couldn't afford), and not only target them, but target them in a way specifically designed to destroy the attached equipment under a VERY specific set of curcumstances.
That has "nation state" written all over it.
Not only that but it has "very high tech nation state" written all over it.
Basically about the only people with the will, the resources, and the ability are US + Israel. There's basically no one else that was likely to have done it.
But honestly, it was one of the most amazingly awesome high tech attacks ever perpetrated. I mean seriously they managed to successfully target machines that weren't connected to the public internet and physically destroy them.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Or have at least four functional brain cells. Seriously, did anyone not already know this?
Just before Edward Snowden became a world famous whistleblower he answered an extensive catalog of questions.
That includes the question about stuxnet. Doesn't address how he knows it, but " lying in a desperate attempt to stay in the news" doesn't fit since this came out before he was in the news.
I've always said, since the NSA is reading all of my e-mail anyway, the least they could do is filter out all the spam for me ... If I could subscribe, via RSS from an NSA site, a .procmailrc; that'd be bitchin'...
Snowden is not really revealing anything that is not widely known. He's just sensationalizing it. Low level access like Snowdens is a general knowledge of whats going on. High level access would be specific knowledge of results and what those results are achieving, which it seems Snowden doesn't have.
I'd personally be a little disappointed if a Western Intelligence agency wasn't making every effort to data farm all communications in and out of the country. However the counterpoint to this is that individuals and companies should be making every effort to ensure their data and communications cannot be trivially breached.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Maybe he went looking for stuff. NSA security isn't magic, once inside their network with some privileged access it isn't impossible to imagine that he could access other secure briefing files.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Apparently he's run out of useful stuff.
Next: Snowden reveals that the Sun comes up in the East.
Um, no. You might wish to RTFA before you touch your keyboard again.
I wonder how many of the software technologies that these agencies are using, have their roots in open source? Hadoop? Hbase? Hive? Mahout? It would be nice to see them publishing their developments back to the Open Source communities.
Which limits his access how?
It sucks in all data, no matter what it is, and which rights are violated by it.
Forget fighting for your privacy based on 4th Amendment legal arguements! Strike back at the NSA with DMCA takedown notices! Now who's the NSA's ISP?
Why? Because it stopped 9/11 or the Boston Marathon bombing...oh wait....
LMOL yeah whoring attention BEFORE he became people knew about him. Nice job troll....
.. and if he were to disappear, do you think anyone in public office would give a wet slap? We've had a steady stream of nuclear scientists, environmental scientists and people working in the field of genetics to die in mysterious circumstances over the years, and once they disappear it doesn't take long for the memories to fade.
Perhaps you can explain a bit (more than four bits) more about Leked and israeli violations of communication/privacy etc.?
Some of us are seemingly stuck between nil and four brain cells.....
At this point, I'd say he's proven himself to be a credible source. Confirming something that was already believed to be true doesn't change that, or make it any less true.
My government has been doing what the UK does for many years already, we learnt this weekend. I'm Dutch, BTW.
-- Cheers!
Information about stuxnet was already leaked to the press and allegedly by retired Marine General James Cartwright. I think it is more likely he is just repeating what he heard speculated in the news already and tried to use his former position to give himself credibility. According to the Der Spiegel article they were trying to evaluate if he was truly a NSA whistleblower, so they submitted some questions to him via email and received his prepared answers. He had plenty of time to look for information already in the news.
The paper must not have thought much about the credibility of their informant since they chose not to run the story until after Snowden made himself known to the public in Hong Kong.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Apparently he's run out of useful stuff.
Eh no. Snowden told everything when they did the interview, the papers who got their questions answered are just sitting on it in order to let the information trickle out over the summer - all in an effort to stay relevant for longer. The people's watchdog my ass.
... whatever
citations please.
CAPTCHA: nonsense
Its important to clarify what this system is intended to do, as im certain the government will furiously refute this new round of allegations...presuming mainstream media feels like covering this one
This is not, nor has it ever been about terrorism. Its about the maintenance of power, wherein terrorism is a convenient excuse as it directly challenges and undermines a governments authority. All legitimate challenges, be they from disenfranchised middle eastern nationals or occupy protestors, are now taken very seriously. The middle east questions everything from the well established narrative of american freedom in the context of guantanamo bay to the carter doctrine of foreign imperialism and Israeli occupation each time a bombing or attack is successfully affected. People begin to ask why we are being attacked, and the excuse that terrorists "hate our freedom" becomes less effective with each blast that rocks a city as more of its citizens learn about the home state of the bomber, her motives and objectives and most dangerously, the full context under which america became a part of it.
the occupy protests question the narrative of the american dream in the context of class stratification that is so rife with inequality it guarantees forty percent of a worlds wealth is concentrated amongst one percent of its wealthiest inhabitants. Bank foreclosures and unemployment can only be explained by "economic downturn" and "irresponsible homeowners" so many times before the answers do not work anymore, and with each march or sit-in a protest gains momentum to change this class stratification. protests like occupy work to force a ruling class to remain under scrutiny or crush dissent. Crushing dissent is a force multiplier however, like water on a grease fire, and merely galvanizes your opponents. Ruling plutocracies cannot tolerate sustained scrutiny.
the middle of the road is simply surveillance. Find the organizers, topple them first, and the dissent never has an opportunity to interrupt the american "dream." pre-emptive detention of G8 protesters, flypapering articles about how much americans think Snowden is a traitor, and manufacturing crimes against peaceful demonstrators is much more efficient and effective. you contol the outcome of the detentions, and without a rally point protestors are supplanted by media reports of valiantly thwarted attacks by the TSA or FBI. Snowdens security state, as its been exposed, also serves also to galvanize more severe convictions against protestors by providing nearly infinite evidence of any crime the prosecution so wishes. its a slightly larger padlock by which political and social unrest is quelled. it is our form of political prisoner.
to fix it not only requires expunging elected leaders but cutting the feed bag from a society that largely reviles the poor and champions the rich, and consents to warrantless search so long as they have enough room on the DVR to still make it home in time to catch up on Big Bang Theory. We must begin to ask uncomfortable questions: Why are people rich, what is the longstanding history of our foreign policy and its potential future ramifications, why should corporations be given say in politics, and why do we need a deep-rooted surveillance system to combat something that kills orders-of-magnitude fewer people each year than heart disease?
Good people go to bed earlier.
I think the US government has switched to an MS Windows type infrastructure for its less classified information. This effectively makes things wide open, in comparison to a well designed secure system. In particular, in Windows, if you have backup operator permissions, you have access to everything - no questions asked.
For highly-secret information, it is necessary to look at the contents of the file and previous queries before determining if an access request will be allowed. For instance, any kind of multiple download request should automatically trigger security checks. This is fundamentally different that the access locks in most commercial operating systems, because the history of previous requests affects your authorizations. Bulk downloads will trigger alarms.
Backups can be performed with secure operating systems. The backups are done with special encryption. A backup operator cannot tell which (or if) data changed by differential analysis of the encrypted backup.
Please tell me how this Snowden guy is doing any of this in the interest of protecting American citizens from an overreaching NSA? Remember his original claim was to be protecting American citizens from an overreaching NSA that was collecting data on US citizens. He denied trying to simply cause political damage to the US and it's allies. Every single day that goes by his true colors show themselves more and more.
In the beginning I got modded heavily for not subscribing to Slashdot groupthink about Snowden and forming my own opinion. So far every single prediction about this guy has come true, he has consistently shown that he is interested only in causing political damage to the US and and it's allies. People have also started to see through this guy and his popularity has started to fall as they the real person and see he is not simply a whistle blower.
He doesn't want asylum in a freedom loving country because he would rather be holed up in a country that routinely jails and tortures dissidents that aren't pissing of the United States. Why, so that he keep on stroking his ego about the damage that he can personally cause to as many nations as possible.
Re "suppose to be highly compartmentalized" would be for per person clearance and project access.
Snowden was not just a person on the Russia desk, a cryptologist, translator or other user of the NSA cloud.
Over time he would have come to understand that searches would lock down or trigger investigations.
As an admin tasked to look after networks/cloud and connect or disconnect users to a certain clearance level - he would have come in allowable contact with a lot of projects for a short time.
How or why the NSA would be so trusting with its cloud and outside contractors given its own understanding of past walkouts from other agencies is strange.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
What the fuck are you asking here?
Yeah it's BS and he made it up, that's why they're hunting him.
Maybe they are hunting him down for divulging information about the email surveillance program that he was under contract to interpret the information. This one fact that he revealed doesn't make the other facts any more credible. It is more likely that his 15 minutes of press exposure is almost up and he'll claim to know more than he actually knows to either remain in the spotlight or make himself appear more valuable to potential host countries.
No one is questioning the information he leaked that was directly handled by him. We are questioning all this new insight that he claims to have on old subjects that were already speculated heavily in the news.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
The paper must not have thought much about the credibility of their informant since they chose not to run the story until after Snowden made himself known to the public in Hong Kong.
Or, more likely, the paper looked for another source to corroborate Snowden's claim and, not finding one willing to be quoted given the current administration's war on whistleblowers, decided to hold off publishing the story rather than printing speculative bullshit. Just like a responsible newspaper would do and not like idiots on a tech forum talking out their ass.
http://news.yahoo.com/5-ways-nsa-leaker-edward-snowdens-story-isnt-115500971.html
You realise that some of the people carrying out extraordinary rendition to black sites, something that's established fact, not spy fiction were also contract employees right?
The US has been using ever greater numbers of contractors since 9/11 for a combination of the fact that many politicians have shares in said companies so it profits them directly and also because it provides a layer of deniability should it come back to bite them - "Oh we had no idea the contractors were doing that!". The third and final reason was simply that private sector could scale faster than existing public sector organisations after the massive influx of security spending post 9/11. None of which means that they have any less access to secretive material, in fact, given the sort of risky operations they're using contractors for it's often the contractors that are engaged in the really dirty stuff the government doesn't want to get directly implicated in.
That and the fact that Snowden wasn't always just an external contractor of course, he did actually work at the NSA for some time.
It's not about me reading spy novels (I've never read a single one, don't interest me), it's about your naivety and lack of understanding of the structure of modern military and security operations by government. Or to cut a long story short, you've obviously just not been paying attention this last 10 years.
..they must have 3 days retention and 100% completeness on alt.binaries.*, no!?
All access is limited to a "Need to Know" basis. All of it. even lower classifications aren't available unless there is a Need to Know.
Two words: Gary McKinnon.
"All access is limited" is so ambiguous as to be almost meaningless. Do you mean "Actually no one, no matter how skilful and unscrupulous, can possibly gain access"? Or "Some bunch of military dimbulbs sitting around a table have decreed that access shall be limited"?
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
I find it comical that people are still arguing over the validity of Snowden's claims, as he continues to be hunted down by the very government who is attempting to dismiss him as a mere nothing.
Perhaps the governments stance to dismiss this as nothing (at least on the surface) has merit, for the government knows that no matter how alarming, no matter how bad the breaches of privacy are or has been, citizens simply don't give a shit enough to care.
And the government knows this. So do many major companies, which is why they continue to operate the way they do (yes, AT&T I'm speaking to you and your recent surcharges that generated hundreds of millions...yes, I'm speaking to you Facebook, and your gall to start charging to put an email where it belongs).
Why do governments and corporations act in this arrogant way? Because they know that no one gives a shit anymore.
Apathy will be the demise of all privacy and Rights as we know them today. I promise you that.
And regardless of Snowden's claims, proof, facts, or evidence, not a damn thing will change for the better. Not a damn thing.
Now, go ahead. I dare you to prove me wrong.
Is that the new smear? He's an attention whore? He gave this interview BEFORE the story broke. Christ, I never would have imagined the level of infestation of desperate and stupid bootlickers we have here at /. has grown over the last few years.
seriously?
we've just got confirmation the suspicions, which were deniable, are true - and no longer deniable.
yeah, lets downplay snowdens contribution to us knowing what the government is up to.
For a field that is suppose to be highly compartmentalized, Snowden is claiming to know a lot of information. He is so desperate to stay in the news that I think he is resorted to parroting what was speculated in the news almost a year ago.
So rather than examining the evidence, you resort to attacking the messenger. Bill_the_stooge?
That's probably the most pathetic article I've ever seen. It's 80% hearsay, and the remaining 20% has since been proven false by the government themselves.
The paper must not have thought much about the credibility of their informant since they chose not to run the story until after Snowden made himself known to the public in Hong Kong.
Wow, its like your only objectively reality is that Snowden sucks.
First it was Snowden doing whatever he could to keep publicity on himself and when that theory went over like a lead balloon you trot out the exact opposite. Now it isn't Snowden's decision to hold off because he sucks, it's the newspaper's decision to hold off because he sucks.
The important part of coming up with an explanation is that it must include the fact that Snowden sucks, everything else is mutable...
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Maybe they are hunting him down for divulging information about the email surveillance program that he was under contract to interpret the information.
You don't call in the military to deal with a 5 year old shoplifter.
The measures taken so far pretty much confirms that everything Snowden has said is true.
NSA security was "magic", just like East German spies in the West could be assured that their details would never be lost.
The "magic" both sides used was simple. Every project was cut up into tiny details no one person could walk out with.
Why was this done? East German lost its spy network list after a trip to West Berlin by one person who requested their own exit visa.
After that East Germany got very creative with putting a spy codename, address and ongoing mission into massive near useless paper filesystems.
Only with face to face meetings could parts be collected and connected.
East Germany later went digital and all the spies names where recovered by the CIA in the late 1980's.
The US did the same with its very advanced computer files systems. Until massive cloud like networks where demanded by outsiders about 10-20 years ago it seems.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Also keep in mind that when working in government or other institutions in various support roles, there are jobs where you can have access to all kinds of things. Serving in the military I had a job like this, with nearly full access and permission to enter whatever spaces. (Some still required attendance by a person of higher or different clearances though, it wasn't all open-door. But I could pull papers, state reasons, and be backed up by superiors in my department.) However despite all the things I had physical access to, doing stuff like equipment validation while using fairly complete manuals, I wasn't too terribly nosy about things. (Of course being purposely not-nosy helps to stay out of trouble along with not having the greatest long-term memory when it comes to various details. Agreeing to confidentiality works in more than one level that way.)
I'm sure the same would also apply to IT, communications specialists (like Manning), or people like yeomen or secretarial staff. Very easy to have access to more than what your own clearance calls for, but most people stay out of trouble by keeping to one task and tuning out all the other stuff. (Keep in mind how bureaucratic systems work. Like recent news that has gone public in relation to leaks military people aren't allowed to see it for classification reasons. It's typically better to avoid the hassle.)
Of course then you have people like Snowden who take advantage of the situation. There's only so much manpower, and by trusting people to stay on task, they don't really watch everybody and what they may pick up on the side. Whether that's for better or worse, who knows? (But some of the CYA stuff really is in violation of the public trust for those in authority to do the right thing. Doing stupid shit and covering it up only serves to eliminate any moral or ethical higher ground you may have been considered to have stood upon. How about staying clean and not doing it in the first place? That really would have been the easiest way to prevent leaks that harm reputation. But nope, people still get caught doing shady crap, and the first response is to go and shoot the messenger.)
Seriously, the Fort doesn't work this way. He was a server admin. He certainly had TS/SCI and probably cleared for "10", but that doesn't mean he'd have intimate knowledge of everything they're doing. And he definitely would NOT have had intimate knowledge of tools dev, foreign partners, etc. That stuff is all SAP and only the server admin for that SAP program would have any chance whatsoever of having access to that sort of knowledge (given the contract he was on, he was not working SAP programs). He downloaded a few PPT presentations from the internal Google (Intelink) and pimped it out like he was some sort of super-leaker. In reality he's your average everyday attention whore who's now spiraling into full blown embellishment to try to extend his 15min of fame.
First everything Snowden says is common knowledge.
Second, everything Snowden says is false.
Third, Snowden has committed treason by endangering national security by revealing information that is both false and common knowledge.
He means he's full of shit, that's what he means.
Having got security clearance and worked on defence projects for a third party contractor in the past myself I can say with absolute certainty that compartmentalisation in the security services isn't as good as his computer games, movies and spy thrillers would have him believe.
When Chinese hackers stole a load of information about the F-35 it wasn't because they pulled off some righteous hack that required skill, perseverance and a high degree of technical knowledge, but precisely because protection of such sensitive data is sloppier than the good practice guidelines claim it should be.
It isn't magic, but it *is* supposed to be compartmentalized. That's the whole "need to know" situation. There shouldn't be a bunch of files for various classified programs sitting together in the same place or even on the same segment of the network for him to just grab.
Perhaps, as an admin, he did have access to multiple systems, or perhaps the compartmentalization was lax or failed, but even a TS/SCI clearance and admin access to hosts for one program isn't supposed to grant you access to all NSA programs. Government security, even government contractor security, is supposed to be very careful about specific requirements about networks, data access, and even facility security.
That's why some people are incredulous that Snowden is suddenly able to spout off about all sorts of programs as if he had all that data. Even with his elevated access, he should not have been able to comment authoritatively on anything but what he was working on directly.
I am not going to be incredulous by default. It may be possible he does know these things, but the assumption that just because he have "privileges" with some NSA programs does not make him an expert by default on all of them. He should have only been able to see what he was working on. So, if there is one thing that I do want to know from all of this, it might be whether their security was lax where Snowden was working.
incidents stopped: 0
incidents not stopped: 2
No, that's a valid question. If the government has all this information then why can't they make anything better with this information? The govt needs to lay their cards on the table there is too much injustice in this country and the citizens have no recourse most times. The government which has been monitoring all of this the whole time which is completely unwilling to help its own citizens using this same information.
Bradley Manning is another good example, he was working at a field base in Iraq yet not only did he have access to military cables for Iraq and Afghanistan as well as the Apache video, he also had access to diplomatic cables from embassies across the globe. All this despite being a low ranking bottom of the pile private on a pretty basic wage.
This alone shows what an utter farce the GP's claim is, there's been plenty of evidence that compartmentalisation in the US security services is far better in theory than it actually is in practice.
Well, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Hostess Cupcake Bakery that created stuxnet. But that's just the opinion of some guy on teh intarwebs[1], not a alleged rogue NSA cyberspy mastermind.
.sig:
Snowden strikes me as Walter Mitty, cyber-janitor.
Has he revealed anything that anyone paying attention hadn't already assumed to be happening somewhere?
Come on guys, isn't time for another episode of the wacky adventures of Where in the World is John McAfee? At least throw us a new bitcoin story for us to bitch and moan about.
[1] see
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
So, how did bugging the EU office in DC ward of terrorists? Do you flip open the "good citizen manual" and invoke the next boogeyman on the list to explain that one away?
... whatever
In the long run, assassinations don't really do anyone any good. However, if someone is going to get assassinated, those are definitely the people I'd be shooting.
Too bad that nuclear technology is like opening Pandora's box, they will eventually get it, if they really, really want it. It's just a matter of slowing them down long enough in the hopes that their government changes to one that is no longer interested in nukes.
And most Americans would support that.
So don't blame US politicians; blame the USA as a whole.
If you are so sure of that then what is this? http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/
Who knows...maybe they are backdooring linux all over the place would seem to me to be the lowest hanging fruit.
Maybe they are hunting him down for divulging information about the email surveillance program that he was under contract to interpret the information. This one fact that he revealed doesn't make the other facts any more credible.
Of course it does, that is the basis of all human trust relationships. If you tell me true things, and I've never caught you in a lie, then that makes you more believable. It doesn't make me automatically accept everything you say as fact, but it means that I trust you more than I otherwise would. So in fact that one fact does make the other facts more credible. However, it wasn't just one fact. He got the EU to search all their offices for bugs. If they had found nothing, I'm sure there would be a lot of European countries who would be happy to score a mountain heap of brownie points with the US by saying so and thereby discrediting Snowden. They haven't said so. He so far has a perfect record. He is now the single most believable source on secret government spying that you have ever had access to. That could change, but for now it hasn't.
You don't ask allies to close their airspace just because somebody broke an NDA.
Okay, now he's just telling us things we already knew. Next he'll announce that box mapping is possible with Magic the Gathering booster packs, lol.
Just imagine the amount of putang Snowden must be getting in Moscow airport. Anna Chapman, the hot ex Russian spy even proposed marriage. http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/07/russian-spy-anna-chapman-proposes-edward-snowden/
Re 'citations please' by the AC:
Costas Tsalikidis, the Greek telco whistleblower was found hanged in his apartment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kostas_Tsalikidis
Exposed tapping mobile phones of members of the cabinet, the Prime Minister, and hundreds of others via foreign “interception” software.
Adamo Bove head of security at Telecom Italia who exposed the CIA renditions via cell phone log in court ‘fell’ to his death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SISMI-Telecom_scandal
Illegal domestic surveillance program on politicians, magistrates.
Deborah Jeane Palfrey, the D.C. Madam was found hanged.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Jeane_Palfrey
David Kelly and the prewar intelligence Britain had on Iraq.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I just wonder why they collaborated with Israel, given that I am sure that they are perfectly capable of writing it themselves. There must be some "political" motive, either the cooperation is in exchange for something else that NSA can't get themselves (info from agents), provides some form of damage control ("we didn't do it, it was the Israelis"), or it is just a firm demonstration of commitment to the Israeli government.
There is a difference between speculating and knowing. Maybe takes time to dig thru gigabytes of information, or decided to release it not all at once to let people assimilate all of it. But is highly possible that had first hand access to that information.
Also, "for a field that is compartmentalized".... maybe really a lot (half a millon? 5 millon? at that range don't matter anymore) of people had access to all that information, or at least all your information, that surely used it in a totally responsible way. Don't fall into the survivorship bias, don't focus in the visible Snowden, but in all the others that had the same access and could had used all that information in other ways.
All access is limited to a "Need to Know" basis.
The "cablegate" state department documents, including names of US informants around the world, were apparently accessible to .5 percent of the US population...
Judging by the mention of Israel, the GP probably has the sort of brain-damage you get from banging your head on the floor 5 times a day...
Unless you believe that it takes 10 years to plan a new terrorist attack.
Without many of these extraordinary laws in place, the time between highly visible attempts on the World Trade Center was 8 years - first in 1993, then in 2001. So yeah - 10 years between major attempted attacks in an unfriendly country where you don't have complete freedom of movement doesn't seem particularly hard to believe.
#DeleteChrome
For the record then...
Dear David Cameron, greasy pig faced piece of shit that you are.
Why are you spending our tax on this?
#KillthePM_lovetheAM, #how_to_make_a_bomb_in_cash-investingold, #Al-Qaeda,Joe-Qaeda,Fred-Qaeda
So if it was true...they would not want to extradite him? Is that the logic?
At this point, I'd say he's proven himself to be a credible source. Confirming something that was already believed to be true doesn't change that, or make it any less true.
Actually no. Confirming something **believed** to be true is a tactic of deception, a tactic of creating the **perception** of credibility. Perception may not match reality.
In truth, extraordinary claims without an explanation of how such information was obtained is a warning sign. How would a low level employee dealing with email surveillance know anything about stuxnet? Frankly claiming such knowledge without any real proof or credible explanation reduces his credibility.
Why does everyone assume that this is a first-person account? If you have access to things, you probably know other people who have access to other things. Perhaps these people talk to one another. Snowden could know these things the same way we know them: someone else spilled the beans.
Next up: Bill_the_engineer thinks Snowden is a pasty-faced four eyed butt-head.
You forgot nigh-immunity to FOIA quests.
Or maybe it's just to use the money to make those (and other) countries assume that they'll get it and budget accordingly, and thus keep them dependent and subservient to the money for later bludgeoning.
"Sure you can let that fugitive of ours go...and we can also...uh...accidentally forget our next aid payment. Wouldn't want your kids to starve or anything right? Right? Goooood. Cough'im up."
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
No.
They were accessible to more people than they needed to be, yes. They were accessible to Bradley Manning, yes.
When you get a clearance, they don't just hand you access to the computer systems that contain that kind of data. Those documents were on a SIPRNET server. You cannot, in fact, simply wave your clearance at a computer and pull documents off of SIPRNET. It is a lot more trouble than that.
A lot of people had access to them, yes, but it is not nearly as large as the set of all people with TS clearance.
So, how did bugging the EU office in DC ward of terrorists? Do you flip open the "good citizen manual" and invoke the next boogeyman on the list to explain that one away?
That's pretty much business as usual, spying like that has been going on for centuries and the US is not doing anytying especially unusual. While embasies are theoretically off limits they do get penetrated and the US has bugged embassies before, even those of it's allies. Most embasies have a faraday cage in the cellar where sensitive discussions get held and most offices get swept for bugs regularly. Even mildly sensitive phonecalls do not get made anywhere near a window and anything down to mundane items like laser printers and photocopiers are either imported from a secure source or if they are bought locally they are examined back to front to make sure they haven't been interfered with. That is to say if the country in question takes it's security seriously. Personally, if I was the EU, I would not trust Windows or Apple PC's nor would I trust Blackberry, Windows Phone, iOS and Android devices, except Linux/Android devices made by trusted European manufacturers and preloaded with a OS'es whose entire source code had been vetted line for line. If you are conducting sensitive negotiations you assume you are being watched, that every conversation is possibly bugged, that opposition's people are trying to bribe/blackmail your staff, that every transmission is intercepted and when you sweep for bugs you bring in your own people from Berlin, London, Paris, Washington or in this case from Bruxelles and you never ever use local specialists for anything you don't want the opposing party to know.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
The measures taken so far pretty much confirms that everything Snowden has said is true.
Like forcing a presidential plane to land in search of the person, and thereby ignoring all diplomatic conventions...
The measures taken so far pretty much confirms that everything Snowden has said is true.
The measures taken by the government to take Snowden into custody only confirm that he is wanted for a serious violation of the law. That doesn't confirm in any way any specific claim he has made any more than a felony warrant confirms the claim of any other fugitive that "I didn't do it! I'm innocent!"
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Most NDA's don't involve Top Secret intelligence information. Who did the asking, by the way? You may remember that the UK warned airlines that they would be liable for all expenses for handling Snowden (arrest, confinement, etc.) if they brought Snowden to the UK. The UK has no interest in dumping money down the well like they've had to with Assange.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
You do realize that Iran blames Israel for everything it can, from earthquakes to the Sandy Hook massacre. Really, an Iranian claim that Israel did something bears no weight.
You also fail to mention that (at least some) of the scientists were also political activists, which Iran has a history of murdering and blaming Israel.
This should be good.
From the GP: "Your country is owned by Jews. You are a slave of the Jews. "
From the parent: "America gives millions to Muzzie savages . . ."
Please, the two of you, do go on. This will be both enlightening and intelligent, I'm sure.
I am not a crackpot.
That's a good thing. If you dump it all at once, then people will only pay attention to whatever part of it floats to the top. If you put it out slowly over time, the public can pay attention to it one item at a time.
If the data he released was false, like has been claimed, then the data was not stolen, it was fabricated, and this whole thing is to go after a "liar." If the data is true and it was stolen, I think the government has some splaining to do, and they are using the manhunt as a distraction.
If true, then the NSA has a really big security problem.
Snowden was a contractor, I could see him getting access to the stuff that he is working on, which would be enough to get him into the trouble he is now. But for him to have access across all areas and departments. There is a serious problem with NSA internal security.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
You don't ask allies to close their airspace just because somebody broke an NDA.
I cannot believe they managed to re-route a plane belonging to a president of an independent country! I would think that counts as an act of war.
Sure, but that assumes everyone needs handholding to understand the information. You could have similar results by releasing it all at once and then running a series of articles on the major points individually.
... whatever
He got the EU to search all their offices for bugs. If they had found nothing, I'm sure there would be a lot of European countries who would be happy to score a mountain heap of brownie points with the US by saying so and thereby discrediting Snowden.
I don't think you understand how the world of intelligence works. The EU members knows their offices are bugged by the US, the US knows their offices are bugged by their allies in the EU. Everybody continuously hunts for those bugs long before Snowden revealed water is wet, and they stay quiet when they find them because the value is not knowing that there are bugs, it's in knowing where they are. Nobody wants to opt out of the game, and it's all about playing along, pretending you don't know about it while simultaneously accepting it as a fact of international politics. Everybody except Ecuador, who recently claimed they were surprised their embassy was bugged. Of course, it was bugged, it was an embassy. That's where most of the spying goes on. Bug was probably there long before Assange ever walked in.
So it's OK that it is done because it has been done for a long time? Well, I guess slavery was also done for a long time ...
Something the DoD doesn't use. :/
That's insightful? Seriously?
"Two people died in separate car accidents at intersections in my city. The intersections were controlled by pesky traffic lights that slow everyone down, and yet people still died in two incidents!"
"Look at all the inconvenience those so-called safety devices are causing us and all the money spent on them: incident's stopped: 0, incidents not stopped: 2"
would have access to every secret inside the NSA. I think this is just an attempt to divert attention away from his actions. His claims may or may not be accurate, but my guess is he's speculating.
the real reason the uk is so hell-bent on killing bittorrent... it's totally fucking up their data retention...
Latin American Presidents would have just "had an accident" during the Cold War for a stunt like this.
I believe at least one African head of state met his demise this way, so yeah.
Because he WILLINGLY SIGNED UP WITH A SPY AGENCY ...
He signed up with Booz Allen to work at the NSA. When I signed up as a contractor to work at ExxonMobil, it was to fix broken tech., not to accept responsibility for the Exxon Valdes, et al. Snowden is a civilian, not a spook. This why he couldn't use whistleblower laws for protection (as if they're any protection).
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to present to you the "Iran probably did it to themselves" nutter that I referenced in my earlier post.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Google is the R+D arm of the NSA. Google was created as part of a project to move every key Government IT project to the private sector, after a disastrous history of formal government projects that failed in every way possible. The logic was implacable. The dynamism of the private sector, and the enthusiasm of young computer 'whizzes' working in that sector straight out of university would propel the USA to an incredible lead in IT, producing hardware and software systems that could be re purposed for security and military uses.
Snowden knows less than 10% of the true situation. Every major intelligence agency in the West have massive Shadow Google installations, vast complexes that use Google's hardware and software platforms. These installations are designed to save everything, and mine the stored data in ever more sophisticated ways.
The goal now of the USA and UK is to find increasing ways to spy on the populace. Ways to extract more data. There is a concern about a backlash (by the public). The Snowden event is actually a PSYOP, designed to examine the response (if any) to a wider dissemination of information detailing current governmental spying on the people. The true leaders in the UK and USA believe the Snowden event will 'INOCULATE' the public against further concerns about the ever growing police-state.
"Once they get used to the idea, it will fade into the background, and they'll stop listening to those that attempt to warn them."
The NSA spying is done for two major reasons.
1) to gather potential 'blackmail' material on ANYONE who may be (now or in the future) in a position of influence. In the UK, Tony Blair actually created an organisation called 'Common Purpose' whose mandate is to identify all mid-level people of influence and train them to follow the same agenda, regardless of political affiliation. NSA/GCHQ information is used to ensure coercive techniques can be used to ensure support for things like war against Iran
2) to read the 'mind' of the populace in near real-time. While the filthy shills that infest places like this constantly tell the betas "why on Earth would they be interested in your life", the most important entity in any nation is that formed by the collective minds of the general populace. All true power flows from the people (usually in the form of passive support of evil alphas). When (for whatever reason) evil alphas are not being countered by decent alphas, evil alphas need to ensure their propaganda campaigns are effective in their influence.
The NSA provides the key part of the feed-back loop that allows the filthy propagandists we call the 'mainstream media' to constantly hone their messages (or do a '180' if a given message proves to be unacceptable). We know, for instance, that the populace of the West is against war with Syria and Iran (since they instinctively understand these conflicts are designed to create the circumstances for a new World War), but control messages can be used to 'pacify' the populace so they do not contemplate direct action to prevent such wars.
BTW, you'll notice that the owners of Slashdot constant use fake polls to imply popular support for things people absolutely do not agree with. The owners of Slashdot are exploiting a commonly understood psychological phenomenon that plays on the paranoid thinking of the individual which allows the individual to easily believe their neighbours are not as reasonable as themselves. This is combined with an actual suppression of political conversation amongst ordinary people (it becomes impolite or 'troubling' to converse about such things) so that individuals lose a sense of what other people around them actually think.
If you believe the promoted stories on Slashdot are 'innocently' chosen, you are a prize fool. This is supposed to be a techy nerdy site, but the owners of Slashdot constantly push a very obvious political agenda (remember, these extremists banned people from Iran from accessing their open-source facilities under the same fake excuse that zionist owned satellite services in Europe are using to ban every Iranian TV station).
http://www.muzzylearnandplay.com/images/muzzy.gif
muzzy savages?
Even with his elevated access, he should not have been able to comment authoritatively on anything but what he was working on directly.
In the real world there is a vast ocean of difference between "should not have" and "could not have".
Quite often not having access to something is more a matter of policy than the presence of any actual barrier.
According to the NSA they stopped "multiple" attempts. This information is classified of course, but you can totally take their word for it.
He certainly could have accomplices, and that would be an interesting situation. Still, to be taken seriously, he should have some sort of documentation, which if compartmentalization was working, they would have had to have provided to him. This means that they would have to take risks similar to him, while they remain in place.
And let's be clear, this is not supposed to be water cooler talk. You're not even supposed to tell your wife what you do at Top Secret. I know a number of people who work in government in what I presume are similar positions. They can tell me that they work at a certain company. That's it. They can't tell me what they do, where they do it, or what they are working with in the slightest. They can't even tell people who have a TS clearance what they do, unless they are in the same area of operations. Those are the rules.
While the government may have difficulty determining if you told your wife something (assuming she could keep her mouth shut), telling anyone less intimate might be be prone to discovery. Indeed, for all they know *I* could be a security auditor or agent. After all, it's not like they've known me since high school or anything.
So, talking to one another is always possible but fraught with the possibility of discovery, and you have to be consciously breaking the rules to do so. To what extent that those people break the rules in reality, I could not say, but I cannot imagine it is very common. If it happened in this case, it would be noteworthy.
I cannot believe they managed to re-route a plane belonging to a president of an independent country! I would think that counts as an act of war.
More or less, but what's Bolivia going to do about it? Attack?
Nope, they're going to do exactly what they did: protest loudly, then move on with their lives...
The measures taken so far pretty much confirms that everything Snowden has said is true.
The measures taken by the government to take Snowden into custody only confirm that he is wanted for a serious violation of the law.
The measures taken so far confirm only that he seriously pissed off an embarassed administration, and why would that be?
This is par for the course in this century. Somehow they've come to believe that the world is their playground and they've every right to change any rules on a whim, in theory "for our protection."
Snowden's not the story. He's just the messenger. Don't shoot the messenger.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
There's also an issue that, eventually, classified things are to become declassified and at times citizens can file FOIA requests, where contractors are under no obligation to comply with either.
- AC for a reason
All access is limited to a "Need to Know" basis. All of it. even lower classifications aren't available unless there is a Need to Know.
yeah and boatloads of people are in need to have potential access to all, how can you cross reference and lobby for MORE MONEY FROM GOVERNMENT if you don't have that? you can't. this is where the ambiguous wording from the public officials comes to play, about the safeties, they never of course specified if you actually _need_ to have the secret court orders for accessing the data and what's more you don't actually need even that if you don't think that the guy is american - point is, that the court is not the entity that holds the access keys or decides who gets to see what, just that the people looking at the data are supposed to not look at it if they don't have a legit reason.
the spying operation is for 2 things and the second thing is driving the first. the first thing is it's easy to sell the idea that you must know more and knowledge is power therefore you need to know "all". the second thing is quite simply that private contracting companies provide a fucking good way to pump boatloads of money out of government under the table and those contractors aren't meant to work well either, they're just meant to provide means to pump cash out of the government. that it's all secret just makes it all the easier, no press can meddle with the money flow and performance per dollar is immeasurable. so kiss good bye to your lunar program while the brass is funneling your money to their contractor buddies providing them and their friends with cushy parachute positions.
the short term gigs the contractors are handing out is indicative of this kind of arrangement - that it's a money pumping operation. if it was really need to know and "top notch" operation for public safety's sake, do you think they would use private contractors? fuck no.
and you see same kind of money pumping happening out of certain tech companies as well - where the dividing the need to know happens _only_ on the lines needed to be kept for the money pumping to continue, not on actual company secret lines.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
One thing to think about with respect to compartmentalization is this: ever since 9/11 there has been a drumbeat to eliminate barriers. To what extent that has affected compartmentalization is unknown by outsiders, but the NSA has had an increasing role over the last fifty years as an aggregator of information. By definition, aggregation breaks down compartments. Snowden worked at and later for the NSA. It at the least seems plausible that he (and many other) NSA employees/contractors had cross-compartmental access to a broad spectrum of data.
That's been known for awhile.
The key question is: so what? A nuclear armed Iran is an existential threat to Israel. It's easy to sit back in your mom's basement and cry foul on Israel for murder when you're not the one who will suffer the consequences if Iran does get a nuclear weapon.
He's 13 months late with that one.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/world/middleeast/obama-ordered-wave-of-cyberattacks-against-iran.html?pagewanted=all
The UK has no interest in dumping money down the well like they've had to with Assange.
Ha ha, very funny. Please explain why the UK HAD TO dump money down that well. I suspect there's a bully "across the pond" that's threatening them to do so based on some under the table "special relationship" handshake which neither would like to openly admit to, because it would confirm for ALL to see that one party is a pawn and the other is a bully. That would make them both look pathetic should it ever manage to make it onto the nightly news.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Why would Snowden know about this? Granted he was a contractor with clearance and he had access to PRISM etc etc. But why would he have any knowledge of Stuxnet? I think no one denies that the NSA is at least efficient at what they do, and it would make logical sense that these projects would be compartmentalized to mitigate damage of leaks; need to know basis and all. Why would he know about Stuxnet and have any actual hard evidence or information when that wasn't his project and he was a contractor, not an NSA insider? This smacks a lot more of just claiming things to keep himself relevant in the media.
Most NDA's don't involve Top Secret intelligence information. Who did the asking, by the way? You may remember that the UK warned airlines that they would be liable for all expenses for handling Snowden (arrest, confinement, etc.) if they brought Snowden to the UK. The UK has no interest in dumping money down the well like they've had to with Assange.
The UK will be compensated - one way or the other - for this. There is no treaty obligation on the UK authorities to go to such extreme efforts to block Assange from leaving and this is very irregular, so the simplest explanation is that there is a keen interest in this.
No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
No, given the fact that travelling from point A to point B through country C means that you are in country C's airspace, then country C can deny you use of their airspace unless you comply with their conditions.
That said, there are agreements that countries have signed regarding use of airspace, so this is indeed highly irregular, even if it is not actually an act of war.
What would be an act of war is attempting to apprehend that world leader or probably to remove materials belonging to them which were property of the diplomatic delegation. It is not clear to me if Snowden himself would have been so protected. My guess is that he could have been removed from the plane, or a standoff might have ensued to get the Bolivians to hand him over. I can't see that having a happy ending for anyone, so I am not sure what they would have done even if he was on the plane.
And to be sure, while we don't feel threatened by Bolivia, there is a lot more at stake in removing their president from his plane than simply the threat of war with Bolivia. Such an action could open up harassment of US diplomats all over the world. Presumably, these consequences must have been understood and deemed acceptable, but I would love to hear their reasoning.
"You don't call in the military to deal with a 5 year old shoplifter."
Of course not... unless he shoplifted on line, then God help that 5 year old because he shall be hunted down and punished.
Secret laws, secret evidence, it's all unprovable bul**hit.
There really hasn't been a noticable change in the number of 'incidents' after the creation of the NSA to before the creation of the NSA.
Of course the NSA 'claims' they stopped stuff, but they can't tell you what or they'd have to kill you. Yeah, right. Excuse me, the B.S. detector is red-lined and pegging.
Can you trust the NSA? Not in the slightest.
Can you trust Snowden? Unknown, but his 'revelations' have really put the NSA into a frenzy, which if nothing else, indirectly indicates that they feel he is blowing the whistle on them. If they'd have gone a softer route, it would probably indicate that they were just dealing with an inconvenience, but this harder attack by the NSA has the hallmark of a wounded animal. So yes, his information is probably has a definite ring of truth, if not photocopies of it.
If it's true, why is he still alive? First of all, you've been watching too many movies. That's not to say the US hasn't and doesn't have some pet assassins, but let's face it, those are really hard to employ. A bullet to the head is dramatic, but it also causes lots and lots of problems. Then there's the 'accident' rouse. Do that to someone in the spotlight, and everybody screams conspiracy. Again, big hairy problems. On top of that, it's not easy to do that kind of stuff in other countries, especially if the target keeps moving. Ok, it's nigh bloody impossible if you aren't in a war torn nobody cares what you do third world toilet, there, you happy? A far more common, easier, cheaper, and more effective method is discrediting the problem. If you can just convince people that the leak is full it, a publicity seeking whore, or completely nuts, if not all of the above, there's no need to kill anyone.
Now, some of you are still going to obsess on Borne Identity. Sure it's a good movie, but come on. Let's put it this way, in real life, how many thousands of cops are shot in the face when they pull over someone? How close to 100% of the cars involved in a crash explode? How many surprise election results are due to mind control? Just how many of your neighbors have been abducted by aliens? Do you have a gun with a capacity of 6, 10, or 12 rounds that can fire at least 30 shots before reloading?
Hollywood sells stories. The more extreme, dramatic, and exciting it is, the more they like it. They don't portray reality, you have PBS for that, they portray excitement. The real world is really boring, until someone starts shooting at you, then it's so scary you need new undies. So when it comes to what you've seen in movies and tv shows, ignore it, it's about as accurate as a pink magical unicorn offering you his services as a butler.
Do I believe Snowden? Honestly, I want his claims investigated. First, he seems to have a rather broad range of subjects he's been privy too, which seems odd. Second, somebody whacked that hornets nest called the NSA pretty good, so there has to be a stick in there somewhere.
In other words, I'm not going to give him carte blanche, but he's definitely right about something.
I cannot believe they managed to re-route a plane belonging to a president of an independent country!
Yeah, after all the crazy shit the TLAs pulled off during the Cold War (Chuck Yeager breaking the Sound Barrier, Nazi rocket scientists, Glomar Explorer, Allende's Chile, The Missile Crisis, The Tonkin Incident), you'd think they ought to be able to come up with better than that. The US must have lost its mojo somewhere.
I guess petty tyrants aren't what they used to be.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
But for him to have access across all areas and departments. There is a serious problem with NSA internal security.
If they're designing security for their military compadres down the hall, that pretty much explains the Bradley Manning debacle, yes?
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Even mildly sensitive phonecalls do not get made anywhere near a window and anything down to mundane items like laser printers and photocopiers are either imported from a secure source or if they are bought locally they are examined back to front to make sure they haven't been interfered with.
Given what we know about the US government, I think I'd have more faith in a laser printer bought from Walmart than one imported from a "secure" source.
It violates HIPPA too, but fuck 'em; they're only people.
Privatization and contractors are the new wave sweeping way too many areas of government these days. They are treated too much like employees and often can have more access than seasoned government workers --which is often the goal:
While in the past you had to play politics and spend years essentially being vetted to gain higher levels of access (or power to do things) - all while being careful of your possibly life long career (something still possible only in government jobs.) A young contractor and his employer are outside the culture and the belief is that they can bypass the red tape and dysfunction because they are outside of it-- but a large part of this real benefit contractors have is because they are unquestioningly afforded the actual power to bypass many things; when in reality, anybody could be given that level of freedom (but question is, would they use it since they'd have future consequences that contractors do not... one could simulate some of the conditions without going to contractors.)
There is a lot of money in privatizing government work - the goal was and never really is about making things work better. The process of hiring contractors increases corruption and the cost is always higher in the long run (unless you have a highly corrupt system... and even then if it is so corrupt that graft out weighs profit margins then you'll also have contractors getting obscenely higher profit margins as well. You can't really have a graft laden system that saves money with contractors.)
WTF is the NSA hiring contractors for?? Seriously, the USA deserves far worse for their stupidity. I also know for a fact background checks are shit because they contract that out now as well.
One only needs to look at their local government out sourcing everybody is doing today to see the quality of service degrade and the net cost rise...
And possibly close their US embassy.
Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
You are obviously unfamiliar with the level or reliance the federal government has on contract companies. There are thousands upon thousands of businesses whose sole income is from developing and managing top secret projects. This isn't the first or the last case of highly sensitive information becoming public because of a contract employee.
Here's another example:
Contractor at fault for leaking the specs of the Presidential helicopter Marine One
A fairly cursory google search will net you a few more.
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
When it is clear that your side does the same things, if not worse, to its enemies? Is it OK if it's your team doing the hacking, as Western hypocrisy typically dictates?
As an aside, Snowden has set back American foreign policy deeply. He really is a traitor. Of course we'll take it gladly, he's helping our cause every day.
You conservatives crack me up.
How is being skeptical of extraordinary claims made without proof or explanation being conservative?
Embracing such a claim because it agrees with your political or philosophical orientation is something that those who practice deception count on. If you don't want to be manipulated you should be skeptical whether the extraordinary claim agrees or disagrees with your politics or philosophy.
He was a sysadmin at the NSA ...
You are expecting that all servers at the NSA have the same admin passwords? That one admin has access to everything, all departments, all projects?
As was pointed out above how did a buck private in the Army posted in Iraq (Bradley Manning) get access to diplomatic cables? Because not only is the system corrupt and criminal, it has the actual security of an unlocked screendoor.
Then it won't be news, so it will get much less attention.
Yo dawg, I heard you like speculation, so we put some speculation in your speculation so you can speculate while you speculate.
Disclaimer : Wild speculation to follow.
If Snowden's job was to analyze data that had passed through the internet, isnt it possible or even probable that he'd be asked to evaluate data that was a leaked?
If that's the case, a person might be granted limited access to a very broad range of classified information. Compartmentalization could become moot, if the compartment in which Snowden existed was precisely designed to evaluate things outside of that compartment.
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
No, it's not okay, but it's called "spying" for a reason. No one likes it, but everyone does it. We're doing it to them and they're doing it to us.
Why would you bug an ally? Well, one good reason I can think of is to make sure that they stay your ally, and if they so switch suddenly, that you're ready for the stab in the back. The US spies on Israel to make sure they aren't about to do something stupid and blow up the Middle East, and Israel spies on the US to make sure that we don't suddenly switch sides on them, or even cut our aid to them.
Other reasons include certain countries using bribes and intimidation to get their businesses contracts over other bidders. That happens all the time, and the US and Europe are constantly trying to get an edge over one another using espionage and bribery.
He's claiming all traffic, from all sources, is saved in some indexed form. Three days worth. Thoughts on the amount of data that is likely to be? Every image? Every communication/call? Knowing what I know about data storage / data writing / data access I find it VERY hard to believe such a facility exists. Even if it was billions and billions of dollars of SSDs that could be rapidly written as the information streamed in...
Either that or they have a couple million RAM buffering the influx and writing it to hard disk.
In truth, extraordinary claims without an explanation of how such information was obtained is a warning sign. How would a low level employee dealing with email surveillance know anything about stuxnet? Frankly claiming such knowledge without any real proof or credible explanation reduces his credibility.
As was pointed out above how did a buck private in the Army posted in Iraq (Bradley Manning) get access to diplomatic cables? Because not only is the system corrupt and criminal, it has the actual security of an unlocked screendoor.
Note that I said extraordinary claims should be accompanied with evidence or explanation. Manning provided the evidence. He did not merely make a **claim** about what was in diplomatic cables, he provided the cables themselves.
Assuming that Snowden had access to stuxnet because Manning had access to diplomatic cables is a huge **leap of faith**.
Diplomatic cables are routinely shared with the military and intelligence agencies. Why would this suggest that the stuxnet team would be sharing its work with the email analysis team?
As a sysadmin, do you have access to every secret your company or organization has? No. Do you have access to some of them? YES.
He doesn't need to have access to every secret at the NSA. Anyone who works for even a few years in an administrative capacity at any organization has probably absorbed enough dirt to at least embarrass them slightly. Which is all he has done really.
As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
If you have access to things, you probably know other people who have access to other things. Perhaps these people talk to one another. Snowden could know these things the same way we know them: someone else spilled the beans.
It doesn't even need to be that, if unconsciously. Think about how ordinary users work. Do they studiously lock their desktop every time they step away from it? Hardly. I've been on contracts where I had to use my supervisor's login creds for the first month until they got around to building my own accounts.
Users run across stuff in their day to day they find interesting and copy it to their home dir. That thingy that was only available to someone with their specific access privs may now be available to anyone who can access the copy.
Snowden's a knowledgable tech. He's been reading the same geeky newssites we read (see Ars for that story). He probably is familiar with all the dopey crap that's gone on since Captain Crunch was using a cereal box prize whistle to steal long distance phone calls from a too confident AT&T. That he was able to pull any of this off would only be a surprise to your average tech ignorant user, assuming the NSA's been as lax at internal security as all outward indications (Bradley Manning) indicate.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Is this enough to prove to you that Jews are in charge of the United States?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asGvjbfIASA
Your pathetic attempt to disprove my point didn't work, did it.
The Jews aren't taking advantage of their power over us all? Never heard of the Federal Reserve? You don't know why the borders of every white country on Earth are open, so that the third world can flood in and destroy everything? Idiot.
Except everything Snowden has released isn't news. We've been suspicious for some time that the US helped develop the stuxnet virus. Major virus companies claimed this. The FBI/CIA surveillance revelation isn't new either. It was revealed back in the late 90's that this was happening. Yet again by AT&T a few years ago when they were being sued for something unrelated. Quit giving this retard the time of day because unlike Wikileaks who actually released credible secrets this guy is repeating stuff that anyone with google can find.
If you are so sure of that then what is this? http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/
Pretty darned good PR, and cheap at the price. A few NSA sharpies come up with something like that and get it out to thair alternates in the community, and it makes the whole of the NSA look like thay're all super elite security wizards, and they can all go back to playing Angry Birds; pats on backs all around, bonuses for the sharpies. Smoke & mirrors.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
My personal experience is that people take security clearances very seriously. My father was a civilian engineer for a contractor that built the Trident submarines, which carry Polaris nuclear missiles. He designed some of the systems.
I just told you everything I ever learned about what my father did for a living.
So rather than examining the evidence, you resort to attacking the messenger. Bill_the_stooge?
Bill the Social Engineer.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
A court (in the US) is _not_ "an impartial arbiter of justice" and they don't teach you in law school that it is.
The first lesson of law school is that it's "a court of law" and not "a court of justice." There is a great distinction.
Someone needs to shut this asshole up.
I think it is safe to assume that most people in this world need handholding. If Snowden's goal is change, then having the public's attention (as large a public as possible) on the problem for as long as possible is the only chance that change occurs.
The problem here is that there aren't any appropriate channels. Secret agencies, acting under secret laws, overseen by secret courts, where does one blow the whistle? His only course of action was to report potential (likely) constitutional violations to the same people who put them into place or to go public. Several NSA whistleblowers have already gone the former route and they got nowhere.
Â4. Misprision of felony
Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
Either way, what he says has enough validity that world leaders are listening and issuing formal statements over it, and the US isn't denying it, so it's obviously got a reasonable degree of validity to it and isn't just about parroting speculation like you claim.
Please explain to me what difference it would make in this crowd (Slashdot) if the US actually DID deny it.
No, seriously. Take a step back, take a few deep breaths, walk away for about an hour or two, do something to clear your mind, and come back to this post with as little pretense of self-congratulating groupthink as possible, and really think about your answer to the questions: Would it change a single thing if the US denied absolutely any of this? Would anybody here seriously diverge one iota from the runaway juggernaut of their own personal bias if the US even said something as simple as "no, that's not true"?
Or is it more likely that our response would be "no, of course you're lying, and that's our proof right there!"?
He had worked for the NSA before (not just for a NSA contractor), he no doubt would have gained a thorough understanding of how their security systems worked, which he exploited when got the job with the contractor after he decided he needed to leak this information. It's possible that other people working for contractors who didn't have the inside knowledge he had would have tripped alarms while gathering this data. Or maybe their internal security really is that bad.
Nice try. I still assert that Snowden will try anything and everything possible to keep publicity on himself.
Snowden's desire to remain in the news and the paper's decision to wait until after the story broke to publish these questions are not mutually exclusive.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Cloudless sky is blue during day. Grass is often green if watered properly.
Of course most people will need handholding, not very many of us are spies or experts on spies. But we don't have to be, and it is not for the media to decide which story has more value than another. The press is supposed to be the watchdog of the people, and as such their mission is not to sit on information for our own good, quite the opposite.
... whatever
No they wouldn't because that would make him a martyr. It's best to let Snowden stay isolated and eventually he'll fade into obscurity.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
PRISM, Enchelon, Carnivore... this is nothing new.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
"I'm a retarded Slashdot reader, and I am not surprised!"
"Are we really surprised? I like getting fucked in my Butthole!"
"Is this really a surprise to anyone? My little anal cavity needs semen inside of it!"
"Wow guys who here is actually surprised? My mouth needs a huge cock rammed down it so I suffocate!"
"Guys it's okay! We're all not surprised about it! Let's all fuck each other like a bunch of fagots!"
This is the level of insightful shit that ends up as the highest moderated comments on slashdot during any discussion about snowden's leaks. Rather than having an actual discussion about what is right and wrong - Slassholes only comment on how they are not surprised and that it's perfectly ok because they weren't surprised!
Is that the only fucking way you can handle this reality of being raped? Not being surprised and writing about it? I suggest anyone doing so should fuck off.
I still assert that Snowden will try anything and everything possible to keep publicity on himself.
Of course you do, that's your reality - Snowden sucks, no matter what.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
When Chinese hackers stole a load of information about the F-35 it wasn't because they pulled off some righteous hack that required skill, perseverance and a high degree of technical knowledge, but precisely because protection of such sensitive data is sloppier than the good practice guidelines claim it should be.
I worked for the US military many years ago as a civilian programmer and I'd agree with this based on what I saw. I don't want to embarrass the particular branch of the service by naming them, but I used to say that their motto ought to be "Using yesterday's technology today" based on how many antiquated computer systems we had to work on and support. We actually had a system that still used punch cards and when I was in college the course books were already beginning to mock punch cards as being ancient technology. I can say that the government really doesn't want to be incompetent and have bad security, but the powers that be have too much blind faith in civilian contractors and Snowden burned them very badly as a result. The lesson that should be learned from this is exactly what Congress has been saying for years - "We need fewer non-government employees with access to these sensitive programs and their data" - but you'll be able to knock me over with a feather if there's a decrease in contractors as much as 10% as a result of this.
Bradley Manning was in the army and had access to SPIRnet and JWICS while stationed at Forward Operating Base Hammer. He took advantage of the fog of war, and the operating post's need to route tactical information from the battlefield to the pentagon and access to embassy communications.
Manning was not a contractor working off-site for a data analysis firm.
It is for the media to raise awareness of issues. If the reporter had simply released all the stories at once, then the potential exists that all of the stories would have been lost on the public as they could not focus on any given issue. This is smart journalism in my mind.
That's one reasonable scenario, and one way I assumed he might have picked up the information.
Having said that, analysts frequently get the actual data, but the means by which the data was actually obtained might not be specified. Obviously, if they are looking at high res photos, they might assume that the particular characteristics of the photo means it was taken by a U-2 recon plane, but it might really have been taken by a new type of drone, or a spy satellite.
In the same way, Snowden might see data, but he wouldn't necessarily know how it was obtained. If he's working the data end, he might be able to see across program lines, but he shouldn't be able to get details about the collection of the data. If he's working collection, his insight should be limited to the collection methods his program is involved with.
Of course, that is how it is supposed to work. The amusing thing is that I could not care less about his revelations, these programs as specified don't bother me in the slightest, but I am keenly interested in how the security on them seems to have failed.
It would be disappointing (although oddly reassuring) if he was just making up some of this other stuff. I find it hard to believe he'd just make things up, but it is known that people will conflate their feelings with actual data, or even make up additional things to increase their own importance.
Oh really? Do you have anything to backup a story that EU or perhaps NATO members are spying on US? I mean bugging-US-Embassy level, not compiling-newspaper-articles level, of course. Oh boy, now that would be a Story with capital S I would love to see.
Given confirmed cases of abuse of power within the federal government to harass or stonewall a specific political group, how could you possibly be perfectly fine with a mechanism that could explicitly map out such a group and it's allies?
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
Do you have any response other than an ad hominem attack? I guess the detail that they have been caught 'doing it to themselves' and blaming Israel previously means nothing to you, and that they must really really be telling the truth now that _you've_ jumped on the conspiracy bandwagon?
I never denied that the CIA or Mossad was behind Stuxnet- my point was that Iran claiming they were behind it is meaningless. If you were able to parse your own posts properly, you would also notice that my post was in reference to the assassinations of nuclear scientists, not to the Stuxnet post. And if you were able to parse your CNN link properly, you would notice that it (partially) supports the premise that 'Iran probably did it to themselves' as you phrases it. Let me know if you need help finding the relevant section of the article you linked to.
Then Obama and the rest of the neocons would be laughing as they publicly point out what a liar Snowden is.
Apparently you believe Snowden is a saint, no matter what.
I have doubts on how much he actually had access to. Most of what he revealed was already speculated in the press. The only subject matter that Snowden may have some credibility is his original email surveillance disclosure. Everything else doesn't appear as credible since it was already speculated in the press prior to Snowden's rise to "sainthood".
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
I would really enjoy if you could let your imagination loose and describe what would happen if Air Force One was forced to land and some peon expressed the desire to search, uh sorry, to have a nice cup of coffee inside.
Is that a new motto of US State Department? That would clarify a lot.
A threat to humanity.
So you have a big issue with Snowden getting some publicity over THE GOVERNMENT SPYING ON PEOPLE WITHOUT ANY WARRENTS AND WITHOUT ANY CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT but you're giving every single musician, movie star and politician a free pass for making a big deal about what they ate for breakfast. Yeah, totally consistent view you've got there.
Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
" The UK has no interest in dumping money down the well like they've had to with Assange."
Yeah, like money is all that matters to them.
Again, I ask people to look through past posts of "Cold Fjord" and look for patterns. They're pretty easy to spot. Once you've done that, please take a look at the document linked in my forum signature and compare the tactics outlined in that document to the tactics used in posts by "Cold Fjord". Look closely at the wording he uses. Come to your own conclusions.
My conclusion? This person is a NSA/Government shill--a forum breaker. There are others here on Slashdot, but I am beginning to suspect that all of them are actually puppet accounts(for harvesting moderation points as well as obfuscation) of three different people--the processes by which the NSA determines intent, motivation and relationships in communications are available to all of us, provided we know about them. My goal here is let as many people as possible know about those tools so that they may use them to protect themselves (and the forums they use) from the likes of "Cold Fjord". Put those tools to use--the NSA does.
This is one arena you can fight back.
I could just as easily speculate that you are actually a government collaborator or paid shill, here precisely to attack Snowden's character and the legitimacy of the revelations that he's provided so far. That you've been paid by your terrified government to try and alleviate this public relations disaster on the Internet, by attacking Snowden's credibility and the credibility of the information he's leaked. I could just as easily speculate that you are the real "enemy of the state."
Speculation without evidence is a wonderful thing, isn't it?
I agree that it is smart journalism, but i challenge the assertion that it is the only way to accomplish that goal. Releasing all the information at once doesn't magically make everyone understand it, but running a series of articles on it might. The reason they do it this way is not due to a handholding agenda, but to keep their rivals from the source material for as long as possible. That we, the people, are left in the dark too is considered acceptable collateral.
I know they have to keep an eye on their profit margins, and that in turn leads to sensationalism. But when they put their own bottom line above the common good, I don't really see the big difference between the corrupt governments they expose, and themselves.
Right now, those of us who value the ideals most of the democratic nations of the western hemisphere were founded on, have an interest in prolonging the newsworthiness of this story, and as such it happens to overlap with what the media is doing. But we shouldn't be making excuses for why it's the right thing to do, because they also use the same technique to discredit political candidates by running stories at oppertune moments, much more than they expose scandals of actual substance.
... whatever
I won't speculate on your motives for making such easily disproven claim about Snowden's character.
Snowden to newspaper: I took contractor job to gather evidence
That would be Edward Snowden, the man who took a contractor job under false pretenses to steal what top secret classified information he could in 90 days. He then fled the United States for a city in the People's Republic of China, after which he fled to Russia due to an extradition request. Since his flight he has been dispensing classified information that has resulted in the compromise of secret intelligence programs and strained diplomatic relationships among multiple allied countries. He is currently under the protection of Russia's President Putin, a former career KGB officer, while he awaits the results of his applications for asylum. So far it appears he has three countries willing to offer him asylum, all are Latin American countries with an ideological disposition hostile to the US. The disposition of Snowden's four laptops of top secret data is unknown. The final damage toll of Snowden's actions will not be known for some time as he continues to leak information and terrorists groups are altering their communication methods in light of Snowden's leaks.
Despite applying to at least 20 countries for refuge to avoid U.S. prosecutors, Snowden’s choices now seem to boil down to a "trifecta" offer of asylum by three leftist and vocally anti-Washington, Latin American nations: Venezuela, Nicaragua and Bolivia. And maybe also Iceland. -- more
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Actually, a lot of NATO countries covertly tortured people for telling the truth about 9/11. Surveillance and sabotage just wasn't enough for the intelligence services within NATO 10 years ago. Today everyone but the most naive and stupid have figured out that an official story which requires gravity to make massive steel beams fall up does not hold water. Yes, official 9/11 government story can only be true if gravity sometimes makes things fall up. Feel free to keep calling people who understand this "crackpots", I'm fine with it. Most people have figured it out by now and I don't see much hope for those who still don't get it.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
Dude I take it you never worked corporate? You ALWAYS end up with the grunts knowing a hell of a lot more than they are supposed to, be it from some PHB just being lazy or a loudmouth to some secretary having ears like a fricking bat, there is ALWAYS plenty of info the grunts aren't supposed to know or have access to that ends up getting into their hands.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
In all likelihood his "objective opinion" is one that he's been paid to have by the Obama administration. This news, the revelations that Snowden has given to the public, have largely the Internet in the largest "huff" as it were. Those same people that are manipulating polls are now taking to the comments trying to attack his character, trying to attack the validity of the leaks.
Try looking at some post histories, you'd be surprised how blatantly obvious the bias is. Slashdot isn't immune to it -- there's people paid here to rate up stories and comments, there's people paid to post certain content, veiled advertisments...and in the end Slashdot gets their cut. No one cares about the truth, they only care about the money. People like old Billy up there are trying to dismiss Snowden because they're afraid people are going to start caring about the truth again. That would turn their entire world upside-down, it might upset the balance of power they've tried so hard to maintain through manipulation of the housing market and faux bank bailouts.
It all sounds like paranoia but start taking it seriously, it happens more than you know. Even on reddit, the resident prick hueypriest admitted during that travesty of a Morgan Freeman AMA that the communication was actually done through a publicist. One would assume money changed hands as well. Seems like an obvious conclusion really, when the fiction we're being asked to believe is that Morgan Freeman, with all of his money, fame and a busy career, decided to sign up for Reddit and chat with all the kind folks about his new movie. Naievity is what's allowing programs like PRISM to continue operating.
Since his flight he has been dispensing classified information that has resulted in the compromise of secret intelligence programs and strained diplomatic relationships among multiple allied countries.
Wow. Are you seriously blaming Snowden for strained diplomatic relationships that became strained because the other countries found out that the US was spying on them?
Hell I got an even better example...has everybody forgotten how the plans for Marine 1 (the POTUS personal chopper) ended up on fricking P2P already?
As somebody who used to work corporate i can say that a LOT of the so called "high level access" stuff is frankly pretty damned easy for somebody on the inside, especially somebody in IT, to get access to. Never forget folks how damned easy it is to become complacent in an org, you see the same guy day after day and people automatically assume "well i'm sure he has a reason" and goes on about their business. I used to have a bud that worked IT in the military and he told me the same thing, he'd get hassled here or there by some BOFH but soon enough he had a superior that got tired of him calling with this or that problem and would just rubber stamp anything he said so that he wouldn't be bothered anymore.
With any large org you get bureaucratic bullshit and you quickly learn how to get around as much as possible just so you can do your damned job, I have no doubt if Snowden was there for more than a year he already knew how to run the maze and bypass the bullshit, you really have to just to do your job in a big org, at least that is what i found to be the case.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
That CIA have black ops operatives is a Hollywood myth. They have sponsered groups with weapons, techniques and money but that is all.
You've pretty much already made the argument. Try reading your post again. It is self explanatory. Or maybe try this, "Are you blaming the house catching fire on the guy playing with matches?"
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
HQ of "Juden Control!" - Trust me: We all KNOW you're correct. History shows us that. Why'd you *think* every nation they ever INFESTED kicked them the FUCK out, every single time, all thru history? Or is Germany, France, Poland, Spain, Egypt, (& other nations throughout history who have outsted the Jew) "insane"? No sir. FAR from it! They merely attempted to rid themselves of a HUMAN VIRUS & tried to ISOLATE it, by stealing Palestinian lands + gave it to Jews to keep them in 1 spot. Can't work. Jews can't rip off other jews is why. Part of their own religious cult's beliefs/tenets, very fundamental. So they have to SPREAD to another place & pull their thieving crap! They are a HUMAN VIRUS, & one that continually goes from nation to nation robbing it of its gold/wealth, systematically, done all throughout human history (the ONLY way a Jew can be 'controlled', is to show him GOLD! It's like putting cheese in front of rats). History alone shows you 1 thing: They are a FUCKING THIEVING DISEASE, a human virus. Of course the JUDENS here will downmod your truth. Can't have THAT getting out, now can we? Again no. The pitiful thing here is, this: EVERYONE KNOWS IT anyhow. Subvert the right to free speech with "hate crimes", lol... talk about OBVIOUS they're scared shitless then too. They bring it on THEMSELVES, everytime, and wonder why! Ah, yes - those ovens are JUST heating up now again people (and the eternal international "YOOD" knows it & the yood reactions shows it, right there, trying to stop others from talking about their international crookery and control schemes). They infest certain areas, every time: Communications/Presses, Mass-Media, Law, Politics, and Finance/Money/Banking. These are KEY areas for them. They repeatedly repeat that very pattern constantly. Why on earth do you think they infest other nations to do it too? Well, they're full of non-jews/goyim! A jew is not allowed to rip off another Jew, so they go where non-jews aren't, gang up on them (like the natural born cowards skulking in the shadows they've ALWAYS been), and underprice them out of business via their competing business funded by the jew collective. Then, when the competitor is destroyed, they jack up prices to USURIOUS SHYLOCK AMOUNTS, for more "power & control", via Gold (their TRUE "God"). They're pitfully transparent and stupid. Yes, and that is what they have the nerve/gall to think of YOU, the non-jew, in fact (when they themselves evidence utter stupidity if not insanity). So, Why? Alrightie then - simple: They don't LEARN BY MISTAKES they continually make, and yes, that makes them STUPID "yoodz", nothing more! Anyone or anything that keeps repeating the SAME mistakes over and over thru history as the YOOD has, expecting different results? Is truly, insane, or yes, just stupid. Take your pick. Their very money-grubbing GREEDY thievish nature does them in, every single time. They are UNABLE to control that in-born thievishness/nature (making them no more than greedy animals), and think others are STUPID (since they're not YOODZ), and it does them in, every single time, since they're arrogant power hungry 2" penis bearing JUDEN SLIME that without their gold? They have ZERO and wouldn't even be able to reproduce without whores they BUY with that gold to do so (and, they themselves, know it, and are afraid that you know it too). In the end? You are 100% correct. We ALL know it. Funniest part, again, is that the YOOD knows we do too. Can't hide it anymore thanks to guys like Snowden. Look at "Herr Juden's" reactions altering laws, subverting the freedom of speech itself via political CONTROL (their PRIME objective). Modding you down counts there also. They tell ALL. Reactions, always do.
That wouldn't be an act of war either. They'd probably negotiate forcefully. If it took too long, they'd spin up the helicopters and send in Delta. War? Only if it got much, much worse than that.
What the US has over Bolivia is that the US can probably back up some pretty serious diplomatic threats.
You need to simply cease existing. You are a fucking parasite baby boomer who is part of the problem that is the massive corruption and degradation of the United States. Fucking. Parasite. Die in your sleep.
The UK has a treaty obligation to honor EU arrest warrants. I doubt the UK will be compensated for this. They had Assange in custody and didn't keep control of him. Now Assange is sheltered in a foreign embassy and there is no reason for him to emerge. If they don't watch him, he could escape completely.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
"Not that this is news"
More anti-snowden propaganda.
Confirmation of what was formerly a conspiracy theory most certainly IS news.
"but I used to say that their motto ought to be "Using yesterday's technology today""
It's a problem here in the UK too. Case in point, I believe in the UK the MoD or at least The Army is still standardised around IE6, there has been talk for years about upgrading but I still do not believe it has happened yet.
Because he WILLINGLY SIGNED UP WITH A SPY AGENCY, and accepted the responsibility for secret clearances, and that's how they handle "leaks".
I'm pretty sure the NSA et al. were already spying on him among everyone else before he joined the NSA. If the NSA was leaving everyone alone and then Snowden signed a contract with them, then you might have an argument for holding Snowden accountable to the contract.
As it is, since the NSA was the one who chose not to play nicely, anyone else can and should do whatever the hell they want in retaliation.
You again? Well, I guess you're a half step up from the look alike trolls that were hounding me: coid fjord , co1d fjord I don't think your purpose is much different. I'll be interested to see if you start posting about "mycleanpc."
Yeah, like money is all that matters to them.
It isn't all that matters to them, but the government is under considerable financial strain and is making cutbacks of all sorts. They don't want to waste money if they can avoid it. Having to keep watch over Assange so that they can fulfill their EU treaty obligation to Sweden to extradite him is quite expensive and consumes resources that could be put to better purposes. Not that you would actually care about the UK's financial problems.
Again, I ask people to look through past posts of "Cold Fjord" and look for patterns. They're pretty easy to spot.
Well, that's a no-brainer, I have a different viewpoint from that of many other participants on Slashdot. Maybe you haven't noticed, but between the many Europeans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, American progressives, and various other people from around the world, the left is over represented compared to various societies. Different viewpoints don't constitute a conspiracy.
Cute idea you have to drive up web traffic at your site though, including hosting a story from Der Spiegel.
My goal here is let as many people as possible know about those tools so that they may use them to protect themselves (and the forums they use) from the likes of "Cold Fjord".
It looks to me like your purpose is to harass, stifle dissent, and drive up your web traffic. But maybe I'm being hasty. Maybe people will fear giving me bad moderation? (Hmm, hadn't thought about that.) Either way, you do seem to be interested in creating fear in people and peddling crank ideas. Take the line below in this post of yours:
This is East Germany, all over again--the NSA literally has us spying on each other, inadvertently or not. Secrecy=Fear=the need for secrecy
Who is it doing all this mutual spying? The idea is nonsense. But it does play into your fear inducing agenda, including your attempts to make people suspicious and fear me. You are engaging in the very same sort of behavior you seem to be complaining about.
But hey, if it works out to my advantage: Anachragnome thinks I am an NSA plant. He wants people to visit his web site to view documents and perhaps for other unknown purposes. (The visit will leave a web trail. His site is known to NSA.) If he is correct, you may end up on a government list by giving me bad moderation. Apparently the only people that disagree with him are spies. Bow to his power, or you may be branded a "shill" and "forum breaker." Follow his fear. He expects you to inform on each other. Obey him, or you may be branded a traitor.
How's that?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The UK has a EU treaty obligation to Sweden to honor its arrest warrants. The UK had Assange under arrest and allowed him to escape. Assange is still in the territory of the UK hiding in an embassy. It is up to the UK to take him into custody again. If they don't watch Assange's location continuously, he will escape. I think referring to Sweden as "a bully "across the pond"" is a bit extravagant. Sweden is a fellow member of the EU since 1995. The "special relationship" that is relevant here are the EU treaties. This information has been made clear many times. It is puzzling why you don't recognize this.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Apparently you believe Snowden is a saint, no matter what.
Have I said that anywhere in this thread? No, I have not. I have not even hinted at my opinion of him. All I have said is that you keep making up scenarios and the only thing consistent from one scenario to another is that snowden sucks.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
In all likelihood his "objective opinion" is one that he's been paid to have by the Obama administration.
No, I do not think so. The user-id has a long history of posts on multiple topics. It is unlikely that someone would have put in that much effort for an astro-turfer. If they had put in that much effort, then that would not fit with the exceptional lack of finesse of his responses - a smear campaign would be a lot more subtle.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Is that a new motto of US State Department? That would clarify a lot.
Sadly, it appears to be... (Obviously, I wasn't agreeing with that approach - it's awful what this country had come to - but it's reality...)
Snowden to newspaper: I took contractor job to gather evidence
What does that have to do the singular point of the post you are responding too? In what way does Snowden deliberately looking for evidence of wrong-doing in any way have anything to do with when he gave the interview in question?
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
He got the EU to search all their offices for bugs. If they had found nothing, I'm sure there would be a lot of European countries who would be happy to score a mountain heap of brownie points with the US by saying so and thereby discrediting Snowden.
They are officially asking the US to explain itself, which is even more unlikely if they had not, in fact, found bugs.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I have a website? News to me. Care to clue me in with a link to my website?
He should have only been able to see what he was working on.
"should" being the keyword there.
Your average windows admin in your average corporation can access all the company data if he wants, including the CEOs e-mails with his mistress. Yes, that is badly set up security and compartmentalization, but it is also reality.
With all respect for the NSA, they are unlikely to be perfect. It is not unlikely that Snowden had more access than he strictly should have been. In fact, it is the more unlikely claim to believe he didn't.
The question is phrased wrong if you ask how he could have had access to something he wasn't working on directly. Assume that the permissions and restrictions were not perfect, because they rarely are. The correction question is not if, but how wrong they were. How much access to stuff he did not work on can we assume he had? Some, much or a whole lot? Both "none" and "all of it" are unlikely answers.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
See Edward Snowden
Wait a second.
Are you seriously suggesting that I am John Young (of Cryptome)?
Care to add your two-cents to the discussion, John? I believe the man just opened the door for you...
I have no idea who you are, and don't really care. And I doubt you can really prove it one way or another.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I won't disagree with you that this tool, as most tools, can be used for good or bad (and you gave excellent examples of bad times to withhold a story). While their motives and mine might not be the same, all I can do is commend the journalists when they do good and condemn them when they do bad.
The final damage toll of Snowden's actions will not be known for some time as he continues to leak information and terrorists groups are altering their communication methods [latimes.com] in light of Snowden's leaks.
As if any organization needs secret information to improve their communications. They already have a stellar example with Bin Laden's network that persisted for 9 years. Trusted human couriers with no network access. Any organization too stupid to use the same methods wouldn't be smart enough to alter their methods just because of Snowden.
Not everyone can use Bin Laden's method due to concerns of timeliness, flexibility, and possibly bandwidth. You seem to be claiming that they wouldn't alter their communications methods in the face of reports that they are. You aren't offering any proof to challenge the report, only argument. You're waving the hand and chanting, "This isn't really happening."
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The interview makes it clear that he must have lied from the beginning to get his job, and that he planned from the start to steal classified documents. He wasn't an innocent that was confronted by wrongdoing and then made an ethical choice. This addresses the question of his character. His employer would never have hired him, nor would he have received a security clearance for his new position if he hadn't lied repeatedly. And that is before you consider his behavior in fleeing the country and beyond.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
So to summarize - what you wrote has absolutely nothing to do with the post you responded to.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Sorry, but that is nonsense. You touched on the question of character (shall I quote you again?), I addressed the question of his character.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Sorry, but that is nonsense. You touched on the question of character (shall I quote you again?), I addressed the question of his character.
No need to, I'll do it for you:
According to the article, the interview was conducted anonymously through a third party before Snowden publicly revealed himself.
I won't speculate on your motives for making such easily disproven claim about Snowden's character.
I said nothing one way or the other about Snowden's character. The only, even unasked, question was why the OP lied. Your responses suggest that he lied because he thinks Snowden sucks and therefore lying about people you think suck is fine.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I won't speculate on your motives for making such easily disproven claim about Snowden's character.
Your statement is in essence a defense of Snowden's character. The issue of character is explicitly raised in your post. I responded to that statement. My response has nothing to do with the GP post. And even if the GP post was faulty in the second half of the post, the first half was a reasonable issue to explore, i.e. Snowden's seemingly vast access to what should be compartmentalized information which would seem to raise even more issues. My response directly questions Snowden's character on its own merits.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Your statement is in essence a defense of Snowden's character.
Only to someone so hyper-sensitive that anything not derogatory must be supportive. In other words someone with such a massive hate-on for Snowden that he can't see the world in any other terms besides pro-Snowden and anti-Snowden.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Very curious. By disclosing information that would be seen as traditional intelligence operations, the idea that Snowden is a whistleblower becomes more undermined (thus losing credibility in the eyes of his supporters). The Stuxnet/Israel link has previously been disclosed, so this is not news. But interestingly, this information is published as an interview through Spiegel, a news source that has so far been completely silent on the Snowden revelations. Yet, neither the Washington Post nor the Guardian have one word posted about this. And unlike the other releases, there aren't documents to support the claims. Did Snowden really give that interview to Spiegel? Or is just an attempt to undermine his credibility? Very curious indeed...
" Take the Tempora program of the British intelligence GCHQ for instance. Tempora is the first "I save everything" approach ("Full take") in the intelligence world. It sucks in all data, no matter what it is, and which rights are violated by it. This buffered storage allows for subsequent monitoring; not a single bit escapes. Right now, the system is capable of saving three days’ worth of traffic, but that will be optimized."
Three days today, three years tomorrow, and three decades next week...
The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt.
Sorry but he obviously referred to USA as the bully beyond the pond.
As for Sweden, they could just visit the embassy and talk to Assange. This should clear him up. Problem is this way Assange could not be extradited to the USA. The pond bully again...
Besides Assange is now in a de facto lockdown. Sweden is helping with this, which makes their whining about the imprisoned Swedish journalist in Africa just too ironic.
Mod parent up.
The use of contractors in sorts of roles is generally accepted across the national security community. Previously "core" government functions are increasingly being filled by contract personal.
Why? This is complex as the parent poster indicated. In my experience, this is largely a result of "colored" money and end-strength restrictions. An organization will have a certain number of billets for government employees and lines of funding that must be spent on contract services. The organization cannot simply convert contract service funding to billets and hire staff.
Why do business like this? Good question. I've heard explanation that these allocation and priorities come from congress. I've also heard that a number of accounting games can be played to sustain operations even under Continuing Resolutions (CRs) and sequestration. The most compelling seems to be that you can't hire and retain QUALIFIED government employees at General Schedule (GS) rates, at least in DC/MD/VA area.
I was under the impression that the major reforms coming out of 9/11 Commission Report was that the national security community needed to move from a culture of "need to know" to one of "need to share". They're right. You can't have both "all the information to connect the dots" and have the information compartmentalized so narrowly to prevent these leaks.
It's a balancing act and I fear Snowden and Manning may move us back towards over-compartmentalization and "siloing" information. If our national security workers do in fact need full-spectrum multi-source intelligence, they are hampered by over-compartmentalization. And if leaks like this do credible damage, then we need information to be siloed. This balance is what makes national security policy difficult. I'd rather see a few high-profile leaks than high-profile intelligence failures.
Answer = Talmud + jew beliefs on non-jews/goyim http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/judaism/T3R0CSB6LGV5MVHE6/p3 - Disprove that from jews' talmud that speak more for those you attack in their favor. Explain why jews are historically/globally kicked nation to nation worldwide in history? You can't. Jews help make "hate crime" (spelled sideways = obliterations of the right to free speech) possible! Clearcut case of trying to hide truths and weakly projecting a tool they themselves use (hence mass media + communications control on their parts every time in every nation). Cutting off the tool jews use themselves: Free speech. So by the same token, what about what jews themselves believe of non-jews out of their own talmud shown in the link above then? Do yourself a giant favor - Don't try to 'outsmart' me Jude: History shows many nations have outright kicked you out before because of jew beliefs largely noted in the link above as well as systematic thievery impoverishing nations you temporarily resided in worldwide. History itself easly shows us that jews do themselves in, everywhere you go, every single time. You don't learn by your mistakes. You are obviously too weak in character racially/genetically to overcome your thieving cowardly natures. Repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results proves your culture is insane by definition. Easily. History and your beliefs in the link above speak for themselves and your cult: You're a human virus that many nations through history have outright ejected - Explain that. Yes, I suppose now you're just going to try to tell us the nations I cited that kicked jews out are all insane, and only jews aren't? Good luck. I guess you couldn't buy up enough printing presses to stop history's truths, eh? LOL! All that gold isn't helping vs. truth, now is it? NO sir. Especially after reading that link above. It's going to be hard to explain away jews can't rip off scam other jews so they go worldwide infesting others nations in order to continue to do so to non-jews they literally view as slaves/cattle and made Israel an "international city" so they could do the same there to non-jews, yet again, also. It's truly hilarious seeing you reduced to failed attempts at attacking myself (and yet you won't answer a simple question, and, you obviously can't explain away your own reprehensible beliefs!)
Snowden please go a head and tell on yourself, and everybody else, we are all so tired of this shit. But any conscious brother knows about government spyware, being even in your toilet and the games they play to regulate the internet before some real hacker does. huh...
Can only imagine we'll read this next...
The Stuxnet revelation is more of an affirmation.It was always suspected that it was co developed by NSA And Israel.
Why can't people bloody learn their Stuxnet history?!
The measures taken so far pretty much confirms that everything Snowden has said is true.
[guy at NSA in charge of minimizing leaks hitting forehead] "D'oh!"
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
nice references.
so, IN REALITY, the references above support the argument that AMDOCS is guilty of privacy violations.
if yes, Akemai?
furthermore, FB and Google
israeli-afilliated leaking of private data.
Obviously they don't need to hunt you down for vital intelligences.
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." --Oscar
Casteism
Like when some heavily armed Apache helicopters enter the airspace of a sovereign country and head in direction of the capital city?
you said it bro! there will be a massive uprising worldwide soon, keep the hope bro
the jews turned the muslims and christians onto each other since the time of the ages, maybe these two monkeys should get together and beat the shit out of the third monkey of isra hell.
nicely rebutted dude
right said fred, if it was previously established that israhell did the virus thing, then why weren't they invaded and taught a lesson
You mean like our "war" with Pakistan when we killed Osama bin Laden?
Yes, flying some helicopters over someone else's airspace is generally hostile, but it doesn't always mean it's a war or even an intent to start one.
I believe that the use of high technology will render the concept of absolute privacy to be an outdated concept in the fairly near future. In short, all of this was inevitable anyway. I am less concerned that the capability exists and more concerned with making sure that the capabilities have proper oversight.
Additionally, I believe that this capacity will be developed by just about everyone eventually. Which means that the longer we dither over the fact that this stuff exists, we're putting ourselves at a competitive disadvantage against countries who are not as beholden to public opinion in the same way.
As far as I can tell, the Snowden leaks have told me about something I already knew existed, but I'm expected to be annoyed with it because the capability simply exists. I don't need this capability justified to me, because I know it is coming whether I like it or not. My solution is simply assume I am being watched and to watch what I say to whom. That's a good idea in any case.
Why I don't like Snowden's action is more that I feel he's just pandering to a viewpoint that exposing anything that is classified and could be used in a bad way is heroic. In short, he's telling me something I already knew in the most obnoxious way possible.
I'm not one of those people who implicitly trusts the government, and I definitely want less of it, but I also realize that to do the job that voters clearly expect from it, they need to do certain things. If they are arresting American citizens and throwing them in jail based on this data, then that is a problem that needs to be addressed. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that we disband the IRS over this, we actually need revenue collection, they are merely desiring that we punish what we have seen as transgressions.
Oh, he'll die, sure enough. Probably of some nasty sexually-transmitted disease and the pathologist won't notice the inoculation mark. They'll have to burn the body "for public safety".
Death won't be sufficient ; there will have to be humiliation too.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"