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Kenyans Will Soon Be Able To Send Bitcoin By Phone

Posted by samzenpus on from the 1-800-money dept.

jfruh writes "M-Pesa is a wildly popular mobile payment system in Kenya, which allows citizens of a country with a poor banking infrastructure to easily transfer money to each other using ubiquitous dumbphones. Currently the system only works in the local currency, but there are plans afoot to allow users to transfer Bitcoin — which would help Kenyans working abroad send money back home without paying high international bank transfer fees."

50 of 83 comments (clear)

  1. Great! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now it won't cost you so much to help them smuggle their vast fortune out of the country.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:Great! by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      Now it won't cost you so much to help them smuggle their vast fortune out of the country.

      Or maybe they could trade with each other without getting abused by middlemen?

    2. Re:Great! by lxs · · Score: 1

      If you haven't intercepted those by now you're not the real thing.

    3. Re:Great! by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      You know that Kenya and Nigeria are not the same, right?

      I spent a couple of years working on 419 style scams. The origin was always, without fail, coastal west African nations. I don't recall even once seeing Kenya crop up. Don't paint all of sub-saharan Africa with the same brush.

    4. Re:Great! by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      but electronic systems are for just that purpose. now elite scum can get a piece of the action every time a poor farmer buys or sells.

    5. Re:Great! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      You know that Kenya and Nigeria are not the same, right?

      I spent a couple of years working on 419 style scams. The origin was always, without fail, coastal west African nations. I don't recall even once seeing Kenya crop up. Don't paint all of sub-saharan Africa with the same brush.

      Yeah, my bad. If you need an excuse:

      I'm an American; I can't be expected to know anything about world geography.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  2. Oh, great... by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 2

    Here comes a whole new spate of 419-style "My client was a prince who died with a huge bunch of bitcoins and I need help smuggling them out of the country, please help..." scam emails.

    --
    -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    1. Re:Oh, great... by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      My client was a US whistleblower who generated a huge bunch of bitcoins and I need help smuggling him into Kenya?
      Add in some https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240657.0 details with a bit of http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-06/11/bitcoin-prism

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:Oh, great... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      If they can send you an email they can move their coins.

      Just leave them on my answering machine, please.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  3. Actually more advanced than what's in the West by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Having lived in Kenya for 5 years, actually MPESA, and the mobile networks in general, are much better than what's in the West. You can transfer money to anyone, anytime, with any phone. Transfer to and from your bank account. Signal strength is consistently 100% in any town of any significance. Fast Internet even in many places away from towns. PAYG calls 1c or 2c/minute, Internet 1c/Mb or less, tethering included on PAYG. Coming back to the West meant getting used to rather inferior service!

    David Anderson

    1. Re:Actually more advanced than what's in the West by cheaphomemadeacid · · Score: 1

      10 $ / GB sounds very expensive, do you also have to pay a monthly fee?

    2. Re:Actually more advanced than what's in the West by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's _mobile_ Internet. Go compare again.

      In the UK, Three offers all-you-can-eat (as opposed to unlimited*) mobile data for 15 pounds for 30 days on PAYG, and they only recently dropped their prices to 1p/MB for mobile data when you're not on the all-you-can-eat plan. None of the other operators in the UK does this, with prices of tens of pence per MB for out-of-plan mobile data.

      Do you still think 1c/MB for mobile data is expensive now? You just can't get that in the west.

    3. Re:Actually more advanced than what's in the West by Ogi_UnixNut · · Score: 1

      T-mobile offers unlimited everything. I know because I have it, for £35 I get unlimited calls, texts and internet.

      And when I moved house and had no broadband for 2 months (Due a problem with the copper line), they proved it, as I hit 35GB a month without even a peep from them about it, let alone a change to my monthly bill.

      If there is a limit to their internet access, I've not hit it yet.

    4. Re:Actually more advanced than what's in the West by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Tmobile has unlimited data with no contract.
      $30/month for 100 minutes voice, unlimited data and unlimited text messages. After 5GB they do drop you down to 3G instead of 4G speeds though.

    5. Re: Actually more advanced than what's in the West by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Having lived in Kenya for 5 years, actually MPESA, and the mobile networks in general, are much better than what's in the West. You can transfer money to anyone, anytime, with any phone. Transfer to and from your bank account. "

      Can I assume from your example that this is not yet possible in the US?
      Giving money oders by phone exists at least as long as ATMs where I live.

    6. Re:Actually more advanced than what's in the West by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      Every country needs free trade. Just because they have other problems doesn't mean they don't need to trade for food, motor parts, air conditioners, and everything else.

    7. Re:Actually more advanced than what's in the West by operagost · · Score: 1

      There's nothing in your post that is inferior or unavailable in the USA, except perhaps 100% signal strength "in any town of any significance."

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    8. Re: Actually more advanced than what's in the West by operagost · · Score: 1

      Popmoney does this. No link so I won't be accused of spamming.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    9. Re:Actually more advanced than what's in the West by mojo706 · · Score: 1

      Actually that has changed. If you subscribe to any of the newer ISP's they don't limit your downloads and you pay a flat fee. For example I pay about 30 $ a month for 1Mbs connection speed with a high limit. I think the limit is about 20-40 GB a month depending on ISP.

  4. Great! by mitcheli · · Score: 2
    Now I'll start getting emails notifying me that I've won the Bitcoin lottery and that I'm to send Bitcoin payment to Mr. Abdul Smith courtesy of international trasit number .... and that I only need to help pay the 10BC fee for setting up the transit. By way of official international transit carrier. And certified by Mr. Smith himself. On behalf of the US FBI and director J Edgar Hoover.

    Or something like that.

    --
    Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
  5. Nigeria won't be far behind by eksith · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cue the Bit419 emails.

    But seriously, this is a step in the right direction. The allure of Bitcoin to me isn't even the privacy (which is debatable) it's that, by not having "central" anything, it truly democratizes access to currency. Forget the hoarders, the conversions and the "banks"; this is a means to transfer money that everyone should have access to.

    --
    If computers were people, I'd be a misanthrope.
    1. Re:Nigeria won't be far behind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You mean the 110100011 emails.

    2. Re:Nigeria won't be far behind by moo9000 · · Score: 1

      Also at the decentralized bitcoin exchange site LocalBitcoins.com people trade with various alternative payment systems, including Kenyan M-PESA. Because at LocalBitcoins.com trading happens peer-to-peer (no centralized accounts) the site can support almost any payment method the users can throw at it.

      Which brings me to the point... Nigeria is not behind, but might be actually a forerunner. There has existed some bitcoin trading in Nigeria for some time now:

      https://localbitcoins.com/country/NG

      Other African countries where trading happens are Ghana https://localbitcoins.com/country/GH and South Africa https://localbitcoins.com/country/ZA

      Supposedly bincoin is good for traditional Nigerian online businesses?

      (disclaimer: I am working with the project)

    3. Re:Nigeria won't be far behind by Burb · · Score: 2

      " Forget the hoarders, the conversions and the "banks"; this is a means to transfer money that everyone should have access to."

      The hoarders, the conversions and the "banks" are exactly what make Bitcoin absolutely worthless. To say nothing of the miners. No one wants to send money home to Mom & Pop if they can't trust the handlers and the value fluctuates wildly.

      --

    4. Re:Nigeria won't be far behind by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      There is nothing Democratic about a currency which is primarily owned by a small handful of people. The centralized nature of bitcoin wealth puts the dollar to shame.

      No it doesn't. BitCoin doesn't have a central bank with absolute control over the currency, anyone can be a miner.

    5. Re:Nigeria won't be far behind by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      I don't think the conversion between bitcoin and local currency is that fast...

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
  6. You too can gamble with the instability of BTC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    BTC is a hilariously unstable currency.

    I have witnessed it halve, then double, then more then halve, then slightly double in the span of a single month. Absolutely nothing is guaranteed in BTC, and to make things even worse the exchanges (which you need to turn your BTC into something usable out in the real world- sorry, but ordering pizza and black market goods is hardly considered "useful") are notoriously unreliable as well. There is literally nothing propping up the system and protecting it from evaporating overnight.

    Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting experiment, but it's just that- an experiment, and to a certain extent a very clever money making scheme for those who got in early. I spent over a week researching the potential profitability of investing in some serious ASIC mining hardware- and in the end, while it might have been profitable to invest... I just couldn't convince myself that the market or the exchanges were trustworthy. Actually turning BTC into IRL currency (which BTC is not) is a total hit and miss. Basically, BTC can't be trusted for anything more then hobby cash.

    So I guess if you're desperate enough, maybe it'll be a useful tool for these folks, but I'm not holding my breath for the inevitable story about how all the poor Kenyans lost their hard worked money and made all their families starve because the market crashed and Mt. Gox decided to evaporate overnight and run away with whatever cash they had.

    1. Re:You too can gamble with the instability of BTC! by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      BTC is a hilariously unstable currency.

      Not really by the standards of things. I assume you're a Westener, used to exceptionally stable curriencies like the Dollar, Euro, Pound, etc etc.

      Compared to them, BTC is a bit of a crapshoot. Compared to less good currencies, it's a solid as a rock. Compare it for example to the Zimbabwe dollar.

      BTC into something usable out in the real world- sorry, but ordering pizza and black market goods is hardly considered "usefu

      Ah the old "can't buy anything useful with it".

      Article: Kenyans will soon be able to buy and sell pretty much anything using BTC on their phones.
      Coward: Ah, BTC is useless because you can't buy anything useful with it.

      uh huh.

      So, after this happens will you concede that it is, in fact, useful?

      Mt. Gox decided to evaporate overnight and run away with whatever cash they had.

      MtGox doesn't have your cash if you own bitcoins. Clearly you know nothing about how they work.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  7. Should be good news if stays stable & accessib by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

    Migrant workers, indeed the poor generally, typically get ripped off by people like Western Union, since they have little choice.
    So, this could be a good thing, as long as some sudden exchange-rate swing does not wipe out the credit.
    (Although transfer times should be short, reducing the voltility risk).
    The cost of buying the bc credit needs to be reasonable, too.

    Of course, once this gets popular, Govs will cry "OMG terrerists!!" and regulate it to death or just shut it down...

  8. Third-party by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The summary made it sound like the M-Pesa system was going to add support for bitcoin somehow ("there are plans afoot to allow users to transfer Bitcoin"), but from TFA, it's just an unrelated third party offering a service that lets you buy bitcoin and pay via M-Pesa.

    Essentially some guy put up a website where you can buy bitcoin.

  9. Re:Should be good news if stays stable & acces by PRMan · · Score: 1

    Of course, once this gets popular, Govs will cry "OMG terrerists!!" and regulate it to death or just shut it down...

    Too late. They've already tried in the US.

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  10. Who's paying for the commercial? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    For a long time I've been wondering who the heck is paying Slashdot to post news about Bitcoin? Common, guys, it isn't such an omnipresent concept to be on our daily feeds....

    1. Re:Who's paying for the commercial? by Iskender · · Score: 1

      Bitcoins are money, and they are tech.

      Both money and tech are absolutely essential for the majority of Slashdotters. I think it would be stranger if Slashdot *didn't* cover Bitcoins.

      On top of that, people understandably expected it to crash "soon". Every day it doesn't crash into oblivion makes it more interesting. And if there is a crash in the end, every day brings us closer to it. Because of this, Bitcoin is even more interesting.

    2. Re:Who's paying for the commercial? by Megane · · Score: 1

      That's like asking who is paying Drudge to post news about train wrecks and Michael Jackson. The bitcoin articles are here to amuse us.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  11. Central bank of Bitcoin by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 1

    Bitcoins won't be stored on cellphones (I mean the private key), but centrally in the service that provides the ability to trade them. This is a single point of failure, and I really don't like this.

    --
    #
    #\ @ ? Colonize Mars
    #
  12. The interesting bit by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 2

    without paying high international bank transfer fees

    This is VERY interesting. In my country banks work hard to steal every penny from anyone who needs to send or receive money from abroad

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    1. Re:The interesting bit by Lord+Lemur · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, TheDarkMaster. This will facitiltate all kinds of scamming and abuse. It's just a question of who is going to manipulate the market and wipe the wealth of these folks out. Anyone foolish enough to store their wealth in Bitcoins is going to have a bad day. Banks atleast provide a reliable level of tax.

    2. Re:The interesting bit by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      I think you do not understand what I meant. I found the idea interesting in the sense of not having to pay a high rate for a bank, just because you are sending money abroad rather than somewhere within your country. Here, you need to pay more than $ 50 to send, say, $ 100 for a son who is doing study abroad. Roughly, here banks try to prevent you from sending money abroad or receiving, through extortionate rates.

      Obs: It is interesting to mention that the "1%" here does not have any complications to send out millions, the difficulties and extorsive taxes are only for ordinary people.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    3. Re:The interesting bit by Shados · · Score: 1

      Obs: It is interesting to mention that the "1%" here does not have any complications to send out millions, the difficulties and extorsive taxes are only for ordinary people.

      Flat fees. Its the same $50 to send $50 or to send 10 million, because its the same damn service. Nothing to do with the "1%".

    4. Re:The interesting bit by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      You did not catch the subtlety of the problem. With this flat rate the bank make prohibitive for the average citizen to send money, while making it cheaper for the rich sending money. Who do you think makes banks act so instead of charging a fairer fee and proportional to the amount shipped?

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    5. Re:The interesting bit by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      The problem is not the bank fee itself. The problem is that you need to pay a lot in fees to make a transfer (And detail that is now done electronically, so the costs are insignificant to the bank). Think 100% in fees to a small transfer (or even more).

      But thinking again, if both sides have Paypal accounts then becomes possible to send money, at least in the desired small amounts. Until banks do not sabotage it too.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
  13. BTC Up! by dirtaddshp · · Score: 1

    And the price of bitcoin goes up!

  14. Re:Should be good news if stays stable & acces by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    As an American, I crapped my pants and hit the fetal position when I saw you used the "T word"

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  15. Re:Should be good news if stays stable & acces by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    You require reeducation. The proper response for americans when they hear the word "terrorists" is to uncontrollably urinate. Defication is completely outside the allowed response reaction protocol.

    Can you please show up to the Reeducation center nearest to you as soon as possible. Bring something soft to bite down on and shave the back of your head for easier placement of the electrodes.

    Thank you citizen.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  16. Oh by h4x0t · · Score: 1

    Is that why bitcoins are up 20%? Some day I'll jump through all the hoops to pick some up... some day....

  17. Gooday, Sir, by gsgriffin · · Score: 1

    My name is Prince Abdula, and I am in a situation now that I believe you could help me with. I am moving to the US but need help to transfer 1.5B Bitcoins out of my country. If you could kindly give me your cell phone number, I will transfer the Bitcoins to your account and will give you 1.5M Bitcoins in exchange for your help....

    --
    jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
    1. Re:Gooday, Sir, by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      That's great, considering there are only about 11 million BTC in existence.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  18. Hearsay by timkofu · · Score: 1

    Dubious. I'll wait for the press release.

  19. Kenyans Aren't Responsible for the 419 Scams. by mojo706 · · Score: 1

    I would just like to clarify that Kenyans aren't responsible for the email scams. So whatever email you get its probably not from a Kenyan. :)

  20. Why did they pick Bitcoin by aktiveradio · · Score: 1

    Why not one of the newer options like Litecoin that has faster transaction times? Litetree litecoin exchange is one of the new sites that can buy and sell the litecoins.